[00:09] <david-uwe> good evening brothers. may i axe someone, how to adjust the screen brightness, without it defaulting back every time i dont touch a button for 15 seconds
[00:09] <brobostigon> ask*
[00:10] <david-uwe> oh no son, im from the hood
[00:10] <david-uwe> whatever that means
[00:10] <hamitron> can't you use on the control on your monitor? ;)
[00:10] <david-uwe> nawh, but in all seriousness, pressing fn + brightness every few seconds is annoying
[00:10] <david-uwe> laptop :)
[00:11] <brobostigon> 00:09:43 < david-uwe> good evening brothers. may i axe someone,
[00:11] <brobostigon> :(
[00:11] <david-uwe> how incredibly rude of me, i apologise
[00:11] <david-uwe> there will be no axing
[00:11] <popey> brobostigon: i think its called humour
[00:11] <hamitron> I set my dimming in the bios on mine
[00:12] <brobostigon> popey: you mybe right,
[00:12] <david-uwe> is there no control for it within ubuntu?
[00:12] <popey> yes
[00:12] <popey> gnome power manager control brightness
[00:12] <popey> what kind of laptop is it?
[00:12] <popey> dell or apple? :)
[00:13] <david-uwe> HP
[00:13] <popey> which model?
[00:13] <david-uwe> i THINK dm3 111sa or something
[00:13] <david-uwe> its a dm3, just dont remember the exact variation, why?
[00:15] <popey> sometimes we have bug reports filed for specific models
[00:15] <popey> was looking for one
[00:15] <david-uwe> oh i see, awesomes thanks :)
[00:15] <david-uwe> its x64 too if that helps
[00:15] <hamitron> my sister has a dm3, but doubt she'd be happy me waking her up to steal it at this time of night ;)
[00:16] <david-uwe> its a pretty decent laptop, especially for the low price
[00:16] <hamitron> yes
[00:16] <david-uwe> in fact it was the best spec laptop available at such a price
[00:16] <popey> nothing obvious
[00:16] <hamitron> they feel pretty solid too
[00:16] <david-uwe> true dat
[00:16] <david-uwe> im so white i cant get away with saying that
[00:17] <popey> are they the shizzle?
[00:18] <david-uwe> they are exactly that
[00:18] <popey> drat
[00:18] <hamitron> they come a close 2nd to my K6-2 comp
[00:18] <hamitron> ;/
[00:18] <popey> just pressed the brightness button on mine
[00:18] <popey> its gone a bit dark
[00:19] <david-uwe> also, the authenticate box doesnt close when you click authenticate, you have to press the close button
[00:19] <david-uwe> is that standard on this version or a bug?
[00:19] <popey> pass
[00:19] <david-uwe> authenticating button works, but it doesnt close the box
[00:19] <david-uwe> k :)
[00:21] <hamitron> do you still have windoze installed?
[00:22] <hamitron> actually, nvm, it doesn't sound like a "fault"
[00:23] <david-uwe> k, but yeah win7
[00:24] <andylockran> ho0wdy
[00:24] <hamitron> doesn't pressing any key reset the brightness?
[00:25] <hamitron> and does it do it in windows?
[00:25] <david-uwe> nope, it just back to low level
[00:26] <david-uwe> then i increase it to max, then when left for 15 seconds, drops to low again, moving mouse or pressing key doesnt increase to max again
[00:26] <david-uwe> have to fn and brightness key
[00:26] <david-uwe> however the power management settings fixed it :)
[00:26] <hamitron> cool
[00:26] <hamitron> :)
[00:26] <david-uwe> i just set a default brightness and turned the idolling
[00:26] <david-uwe> off
[00:27] <david-uwe> anywho thanks for the help, bed time!
[00:27] <david-uwe> sweet dreams team xxxxxxxxxx
[00:27] <hamitron> laters
[00:27] <andylockran> nice
[00:27] <hamitron> I am tempted to try power management
[00:27] <hamitron> :)
[00:27] <hamitron> been ages since I have
[00:28] <andylockran> I need to buy myself a laptop soon
[00:28] <andylockran> but also need to upgrade the desktop, still have a pentium 4 2.8
[00:28] <hamitron> I intend to get a new comp soon, but still torn between the i3 and phenomII X4
[00:28] <hamitron> :/
[00:29] <hamitron> and also kinda tempted by intel's 2nd gen of core-i
[00:29] <andylockran> I've not even specc'd up a machine - just fancy something that I can virtualise on.
[00:30] <hamitron> i am looking forward to VT :)
[00:30] <andylockran> Well, depends what I want to do.  Considering a tower-server setup as myth backend, and then stream to PS3..
[00:30] <hamitron> my main reason is more horsepower for gaming
[00:30] <hamitron> :/
[00:30] <Cepheus> I might get a netbook. need something that doesn't keep me in one room of the house for day to day stuff
[00:30] <brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
[00:31] <andylockran> my reasons are that this cpu is too slow for HD playback
[00:31] <andylockran> and doesn't have a vmx flag
[00:31] <hamitron> playback? :|
[00:31] <andylockran> blu-ray
[00:31] <hamitron> didn't realise it took that much power :/
[00:31] <andylockran> yeah, for decoding.
[00:32] <andylockran> anyhow - it's been a couple of late nights, so I should make tonights an early one
[00:32] <hamitron> okies
[00:32] <hamitron> :)
[00:33] <hamitron> anyone here have a m-ITX motherboard with a real processor on?
[00:33] <andylockran> ta ra all
[02:20] <Seeker`> arduino \o/
[04:23] <HazRPG> \o hey all
[06:23] <AlanBell> morning all
[06:28]  * MartijnVdS flashes Gingerbread onto his Nexus One
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> N1 owners: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=965478
[07:18] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :o you got the flash for gingerbread :O!
[07:18] <HazRPG> also, morning all ubuntu friends :)
[07:20] <HazRPG> oh...
[07:20]  * HazRPG just saw the link
[07:24] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: how's 2.3 treating you?
[07:38] <HazRPG> wow I didn't know you could run php from the command line using php5-cli
[08:24]  * HazRPG updating nexus one :)
[08:25] <HazRPG> thanks MartijnVdS :)
[08:27] <HazRPG> did yours flash successfully?
[08:29] <hoover> mornin folks
[08:29] <HazRPG> morning hoover
[08:32] <DJones> Morning all
[08:32] <HazRPG> morning DJones :)
[08:32] <DJones> Hi HazRPG
[08:33] <HazRPG> wow... gingerbread looks so very different!
[08:34] <HazRPG> haha, the little screen turning off animation looks pretty awesome :P
[08:42] <hoover> anyone running gingerbread on a phone yet?
[08:55] <bigcalm> Greetings earthlings :)
[08:56] <HazRPG> hoover: I am now :)
[08:56] <HazRPG> bigcalm: greetings :)
[08:57] <HazRPG> \o
[09:02] <HazRPG> anyone have a terminal for their android?
[09:03] <Myrtti> other than irssi connectbot?
[09:03] <Myrtti> IMO it has a local terminal too in it
[09:04] <BigRedS> in your *opinion*? :)
[09:04] <bigcalm> whoami on my n1 says "app_1"
[09:05] <BigRedS> but, yeah, mine has a terminal emulator
[09:05] <BigRedS> and I did put busybox on it, but it doesn't work any more
[09:05] <bigcalm> I rooted mine, so have the terminal emulator
[09:05] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone!
[09:05] <Myrtti> BigRedS: oh, pardon me for using a wrong acronym.
[09:05] <BigRedS> whooo!
[09:05] <bigcalm> TTFCIF (no I won't explain it)
[09:05] <BigRedS> haha, my brain had trouble parsing that this early :)
[09:06] <HazRPG> Myrtti: well yeah, but you don't just get access to it as standard though - its hidden away
[09:06] <HazRPG> BigRedS: which one you using? Or have you got your phone rooted?
[09:06] <BigRedS> it's rooted
[09:07] <BigRedS> but it's the one out of the market, I think
[09:07] <HazRPG> hmm, you using a custom o/s on it too?
[09:07] <Myrtti> I'm not in a great mood, so I guess it's best if I just go continue my lowsy day
[09:07] <Myrtti> somewhere else
[09:08]  * HazRPG keeps meaning to root and change o/s on mine
[09:08] <Myrtti> ttfn
[09:08] <HazRPG> Myrtti: *hugs*
[09:12] <HazRPG> \o mungojerry
[09:12] <mungojerry> o/ .... \o
[09:12] <mungojerry> upgrading my natty, hoping it works today :)
[09:14] <HazRPG> mungojerry: gl :)
[09:15] <mungojerry> what could possibly go wrong ;)
[09:16] <BigRedS> didn't someone tweet "today is a bad day to upgrade natty" yesterday?
[09:16] <bigcalm> Popey did
[09:16] <mungojerry> yeah, that was yesteday
[09:17] <gord> mungojerry, i wouldn't right now, wait for this afternoon
[09:17] <gord> things are still building
[09:17] <mungojerry> i guess he saw we were having problems and went ahead anyway :P
[09:17] <BigRedS> mungojerry: it's only just stopped being yesterday! :)
[09:17] <mungojerry> gord, i'm broken since yesterday anyway, so anything is a bonus right now ..thanks for the warning :)
[09:18] <Hazmaster> hmm, where do logs from irssi go?
[09:18] <popey> Hazmaster: ~/irclogs here
[09:18] <mungojerry> unity launcher is back...i'm back in business :)
[09:19] <Hazmaster> popey: thanks :)
[09:30] <kazade> o/
[09:31] <popey> morning kazade
[09:31] <popey> mrevell: your name came up in conversation the other night
[09:31] <popey> mrevell: a certain photo of you with a pearl necklace
[09:31] <popey> always makes me smile
[09:35] <mrevell> popey, Heh, who was the conversation with?
[09:38] <screen-x> morning all.... mmm steak
[09:38] <bigcalm> Morning screen-x
[09:38] <bigcalm> Steak now?
[09:39] <screen-x> bigcalm: nah, just a happy thought :)
[09:39] <bigcalm> Hehe
[09:39] <bigcalm> Friday is steak day?
[09:39] <screen-x> That sounds like a good institution, I should initiate that.
[09:41] <DJones> Why limit steak day to just friday
[09:41] <DJones> Sounds good for every day
[09:42] <popey> mrevell: gmb, ev, kat, tony, laura...
[09:42] <mrevell> Ah
[09:42] <mrevell> heh
[09:42] <popey> :)
[09:43] <ikonia> any of you guys ever played with trying to have an "include" file in sudoers eg: include group1.file
[09:44] <mungojerry> planet gnome seems to still contain rants about banshee/canonical - you can't please everyone i suppose!
[09:46] <ikonia> never mind, find some great info
[09:46] <mungojerry> ikonia, never tried that - do you have a /etc/sudoers.d/README file?
[09:46] <mungojerry> ok
[09:51] <gord> hehe, pleasing people in the open source world, surely you jest
[09:53] <HazRPG> what's the best way to leave byobu, so that it saves all the screen sessions?
[09:53] <gord> does ctrl+a ctrl+d not do it?
[09:53] <HazRPG> I know byobu -x brings back all previous screens
[09:54] <HazRPG> gord: it does :)
[09:54] <popey> ctrl+a, d
[09:54] <HazRPG> gord: thanks dude :)
[09:54] <popey> no ctrl needed on the d
[09:54] <HazRPG> popey: cool
[09:54]  * HazRPG stored info
[09:54] <screen-x> but it does work, if you hold down ctrl longer..
[09:54] <gord> ah right yes, that was a bad habit i had
[09:55] <popey> sure
[09:55] <screen-x> and if you shift the d, it kills the shell as well.
[09:56] <HazRPG> wow, apparently my server has updates again already
[09:56] <HazRPG> only just did it yesterday iirc
[10:01] <popey> probably timezone stuff
[10:02] <HazRPG> yeah it was, and a kernel update
[10:04] <screen-x> seems odd to me how often tzdata gets updated, maybe timezones etc arent as static as I think they are.
[10:04] <gord> every time i boot up my laptop ubuntu judges me because i have a broken battery :)
[10:04] <gord> :(!
[10:04]  * HazRPG hugs gord
[10:05] <HazRPG> screen-x: if I recall the world is actually losing time each year
[10:05] <HazRPG> our days, according to the stars is actually 23hr and x mins and x seconds
[10:06] <screen-x> HazRPG: are we getting closer to the sun then?
[10:06] <HazRPG> I can never remember the formula to work it out though
[10:07] <HazRPG> screen-x: not sure about that one, but I know the earth actually bounces around - which is what causes the ice ages every couple of million years
[10:09] <screen-x> heh, I know very little about physics, just thought that if years are getting shorter, either the earth is accelerating or its orbit is getting smaller.
[10:09] <BigRedS> we are getting closer to the sun, as an unfortunate consequence of gravity
[10:10] <HazRPG> I mean a year when the dinosaurs was around was 370 days iirc
[10:10] <HazRPG> BigRedS: indeed, but not as fast as people would like you to believe though
[10:11] <HazRPG> ah ha! Found it, a day is actually 23hrs 56mins and 4.1secs
[10:11] <BigRedS> HazRPG: somethign like 200mm a year IIRC
[10:11] <HazRPG> every 18 months we have to add a leap second to our clocks
[10:12] <HazRPG> BigRedS: exactly :P
[10:13] <HazRPG> this is an interesting watch for those that are interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OFThORmR-s
[10:14] <HazRPG> its about time, and when will time end, etc... goes into a lot of detail about how we perceive time, and some history (and future) about the world & universe
[10:14] <HazRPG> its very entertaining
[10:14] <BigRedS> I try not to think about that sort of thing. my brain can neither get over the thought of infinite time, nor the concept of an end of time
[10:15] <HazRPG> BigRedS: there isn't an end to time, the chain-reaction of the universe has already started, the only thing it can do now is to extend out
[10:16] <BigRedS> HazRPG: I gather there are theories that call for each
[10:16] <HazRPG> true
[10:16] <BigRedS> depending upon your particular definition of 'time'
[10:16] <HazRPG> time is a human invention, no doubt about it :)
[10:17] <HazRPG> it was created to help solve the mysteries of the universe
[10:17] <BigRedS> I did like stephen hawkings' explanation of time naturally following from entropy
[10:17] <HazRPG> agreed
[10:18] <HazRPG> science ... it works!
[10:18]  * HazRPG loves science
[10:19] <HazRPG> iirc correctly that video goes briefly go into hawkings' theory
[10:19] <BigRedS> In fact, that book made a whole lot of stuff make sense, which was nice. And put names to theories that I knew of but not by name, or how they were related
[10:19] <BigRedS> quite handy
[10:20] <HazRPG> is that stephen hawking - a brief history in time?
[10:20] <BigRedS> HazRPG: yeah
[10:20] <BigRedS> I forget he wrote other books :)
[10:20] <HazRPG> great book :)
[10:21] <BigRedS> yeah, a lot more digestible than I was expecting
[10:21] <BigRedS> I suppose that's why they call it 'popular science'
[10:21] <HazRPG> I keep meaning to read his other books
[10:24] <HazRPG> wow, just realised the time (ironically) - should really do some work
[10:24] <screen-x> haha
[10:24]  * screen-x goes to put some ram in a box
[10:25] <HazRPG> screen-x: you know, your name made so much more sense after I learned about the command screen :P
[10:25] <BigRedS> hah, I think of him every time I reacquire my irc sessio
[10:25] <BigRedS> n
[10:26] <HazRPG> :P
[10:28] <HazRPG> hmm, why does rhythmbox just play a clacking noise sometimes to some files?
[10:33] <mungojerry> anyone in here good, or even average at puppet?
[10:34] <Baikonur> or maybe a master of puppets?
[10:34] <mungojerry> indeedy..ba-dum ching
[10:35] <HazRPG> Baikonur: first thought I had too xD
[10:35] <Baikonur> there has to be a comic supervillain called The Puppetmaster, it's so obvious a name
[10:35] <HazRPG> Baikonur: you'd think right
[10:36] <Baikonur> there's a Puppet Master in both Marvel and DC worlds
[10:36] <mungojerry> but not in here :(
[10:36] <Baikonur> well the DC one is called Puppeteer, now
[10:54] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Seems we have "medium" music compatibility apparently.
[10:55] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[10:57] <daubers> Morning
[10:58] <pr0ph3t> I use grub as bootloader, but I boot into linux 90% of the time. Is it possible to have the boot menu come up only when I press a button or similar?
[10:59] <BigRedS> pr0ph3t: certainly with 'old' grub
[10:59] <BigRedS> there it was called 'hiddenmenu'
[10:59] <X3N> you could reduce the timeout which is cancelled but a button press
[11:00] <mungojerry> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Hidden
[11:00] <pr0ph3t> savers
[11:00] <pr0ph3t> thanks
[11:01] <mungojerry> check which version of grub you are using though :P
[11:01] <X3N> that looks good
[11:02] <DJones> pr0ph3t: If press and hold the left shift key down while the computer is booting up, that'll bring the grub menu up as well
[11:06] <danfish> isn't the default in grub2 to *not* show a boot menu, unless shift is pressed?
[11:06] <BigRedS> I'm pretty sure my grub2 shows a menu anyway
[11:06] <BigRedS> I think I'm running grub2
[11:07] <HazRPG> danfish: not unless you have multiple O/S's
[11:08] <gord> interesting. bought another album from u1 music store, banshee crashes.... the rebellion has started
[11:08] <pr0ph3t> yes sorry, forgot to specify I have more than one OS
[11:08] <davmor2> morning all
[11:10] <danfish> HazRPG: oh yeah :) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
[11:11] <HazRPG> I like how GRUB2 is technically 1.98
[11:11] <HazRPG> that confused me the first time I booted up
[11:11] <HazRPG> or is it 1.99 now?
[11:11]  * HazRPG forgets
[11:11] <popey> !info grub
[11:12] <popey> info grub2
[11:12] <popey> bah
[11:12] <popey> !info grub2
[11:12] <popey> o_O hurd-i386?
[11:12] <popey> is this the debian version of lubotu3 ?
[11:12]  * popey pokes jpds 
[11:14]  * daubers is considering turning his revo into a Minecraft server and popping it into the company DC over the weekend
[11:14] <jpds> popey: 301 → tsimpson.
[11:15] <HazRPG> daubers: company DC?
[11:16] <daubers> HazRPG: Data center
[11:16] <HazRPG> ah
[11:16] <tsimpson> popey, jpds: take a look at apt-cache showsrc grub2
[11:16] <HazRPG> daubers: can you do that O.o
[11:16] <HazRPG> ?*
[11:17] <daubers> HazRPG: Yup, as I run it (sort of)
[11:17] <HazRPG> daubers: ah cool
[11:18] <HazRPG> daubers: you competing with popey's server :P?
[11:18] <daubers> HazRPG: Nope. Just fancy having a play. My home net connection is pants on upload (as I'm abusing it most of the time) so this way I don't have to worry :)
[11:19] <HazRPG> :P
[11:23]  * Laney enjoys having beds in minecraft now
[11:23] <daubers> Also means I might have some spare storage/bandwidth capacity to give away if needed
[11:25] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[11:27] <HazRPG> morning brobostigon :D
[11:29] <HazRPG> hmm... I'm apparently eating mulberries
[11:30] <HazRPG> they look creepy, but taste nice
[11:31] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm using gingerbread now :)
[11:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Colorific!  A Useful Tool for Gtk/Cairo Developers - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/colorific-a-useful-tool-for-gtkcairo-developers/
[11:31] <czajkowski> Aloha
[11:31] <HazRPG> czajkowski: howdy
[11:33] <brobostigon> HazRPG: you blog gave that away, :)
[11:34] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh wow, you read that
[11:34]  * HazRPG blushes
[11:34] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i have it rss'ed, yes,
[11:34] <HazRPG> awesome :)
[11:34] <mungojerry> HazRPG: gb on which device?
[11:34]  * davmor2 gives czajkowski a reassuring pat on the back and sends her into battle
[11:34] <HazRPG> mungojerry: nexus one
[11:34] <mungojerry> any good new features?
[11:34] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i am back on 2.3.2 :(, not 2.3.3.
[11:35] <HazRPG> brobostigon: how come?
[11:35] <brobostigon> mungojerry: better power manegement, tostart.
[11:35] <HazRPG> mungojerry: nicer/crisper interface too
[11:35] <brobostigon> HazRPG: there isnt a g1 one build with 2.3.3 yet. only 2.3.2
[11:35] <HazRPG> ah
[11:36] <HazRPG> mungojerry: it's a dark theme too, which I always prefer
[11:36] <mungojerry> HazRPG: no major stuff tho?
[11:36] <mungojerry> (although power management is good)
[11:36] <HazRPG> speed mainly, and power management
[11:36] <brobostigon> HazRPG: its less piercing on my eyes, because of the darker style, especially at night.
[11:36] <HazRPG> brobostigon: agreed :)
[11:36] <pr0ph3t> so you have rooted phones?
[11:37] <brobostigon> pr0ph3t: yes.
[11:37] <HazRPG> nope, its on my to-do list
[11:37] <mungojerry> at some point htc will stop producing sense builds for my phone..but until then i'm patient enough to wait :)
[11:37] <brobostigon> brb, cuppa time, :)
[11:37] <HazRPG> a list that gets bigger each day... sadly...
[11:38] <HazRPG> mungojerry: personally I feel that android as a whole needs a better re-build of it
[11:39] <mungojerry> HazRPG: do you have screenshots?
[11:39] <gord> oh wow latest ubuntu one in natty actually tells you what its doing
[11:39] <HazRPG> mungojerry: I mean I understand for some HTC phones that Sense will need to be updated each time, but the OS rollouts is seems somewhat tedious to me
[11:39] <HazRPG> gord: \o/
[11:39] <HazRPG> gord: I bet that was a feature request :P
[11:40] <pr0ph3t> more programs are using that feature now
[11:40] <pr0ph3t> calibre does as well
[11:41] <HazRPG> mungojerry: I mean it doesn't seem right that with each new update some phones will never get it
[11:41] <mungojerry> yeah
[11:41] <pr0ph3t> or actually, maybe it did in previous versions as well
[11:42] <pr0ph3t> well I have the three firmware so I'll have to wait for them to get the updates
[11:42]  * brobostigon returns with cuppa in pot.
[11:42] <HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
[11:43] <mungojerry> gord: have you done an update today?
[11:43] <gord> mungojerry, i have, but i wouldn't recommend it yet still ;)
[11:43] <mungojerry> yeah...my unity launcher is flipping out
[11:44] <brobostigon> pr0ph3t: hence i had to root and install an engineering recovery, otherwise i would be stuck back on 1.6.
[11:44] <mungojerry> opening and closing at super speed
[11:44]  * brobostigon is using gnome-shell and is happy.
[11:45] <mungojerry> brobostigon: which distro are you running it on
[11:45] <brobostigon> mungojerry: ubuntu 10.10.
[11:45] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i have built gnome-shell from gnome's git repo.
[11:46] <mungojerry> brobostigon: was it much hassle?
[11:46] <brobostigon> otherwise there is no recent build.
[11:46] <mungojerry> i'd like to try it
[11:46] <brobostigon> mungojerry: fairly simple, you just need some patience,
[11:46] <mungojerry> compilation patience or fixing dependencies patient
[11:46] <brobostigon> gtk3 takes sometime to build, :(
[11:47] <brobostigon> mungojerry: compilation time.
[11:47] <gord> you allready have gtk3 in natty
[11:47] <mungojerry> i can handle that
[11:47] <brobostigon> mungojerry: it does dependency negotiation for you. and builds it in a sandbox.
[11:47] <mungojerry> sweet, are there instructions?
[11:48] <brobostigon> mungojerry: go to the gnome-shell page on the gnome wiki.
[11:48] <gord> there is prolly a ppa somewhere
[11:48] <gord> i wouldn't do anything like build gtk
[11:48] <brobostigon> gord: tried it, under natty, it fails withloads of dependency errors.
[11:48] <brobostigon> gord: the ppa i mean.
[11:48] <gord> well then i would worry about building it too
[11:48] <ali1234> there is a script that builds all gnome-shell for you, or at least there was
[11:48] <screen-x> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+packages
[11:49] <screen-x> brobostigon: is that the one that failed?
[11:49] <brobostigon> screen-x: tried that too, under natty, no luck.
[11:49]  * mungojerry has a plethora of testing machines
[11:50] <brobostigon> screen-x: ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu/
[11:50] <screen-x> looks like they are having some build issues with that ppa
[11:50] <ali1234> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/10/install-gnome-shell-from-git-in-ubuntu.html
[11:51] <AlanBell> unity installs and runs again (but does flickery madness)
[11:51] <screen-x> not liking the sound of that AlanBell
[11:52] <brobostigon> ali1234: thats thesame as the instructions onthe gnome  wiki, for a build.
[11:52] <ali1234> yes
[11:53] <ali1234> last time i tried it, that script builds all dependencies like gtk3 automatically
[11:53] <directhex> ultimately, the problem with unity is it's crap. the interface is confusing an inconsistent
[11:53] <brobostigon> ali1234: exactly, i did say that,just then.
[11:53] <directhex> i have no gnome shell experience though
[11:53] <BigRedS> directhex: I had a brief go at fosdem. I didn't like that either
[11:53] <ali1234> lol, unity isn't that bad, it would be good on a tablet
[11:54] <ali1234> it just doesn't make any sense at all for desktop
[11:54] <BigRedS> but it's shipping as a UI for all sizes of display...
[11:55] <ali1234> yes, that is the problem
[11:55] <directhex> yeah, perfect for my 27"...
[11:55] <BigRedS> yeah. gnome shell seemed similar - the bigger the screen the more ridiculous it feels
[11:56] <brobostigon> gnome-shell is a massive improvement though, and something i needed, better workspace manegement.
[11:57] <mungojerry> i am reserving judgment on unity, but in the meantime i'm running alphas and reporting bugs to at least make it better
[11:57] <BigRedS> ahh, that much i didn't test or see - what does it do better?
[11:57]  * gord gives mungojerry a gold star for being useful
[11:58]  * mungojerry pins gold star to his ubuntu t-shirt
[11:59] <brobostigon> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/02/gnome-shell-29190-released-screenshots.html give that video a look,it explains better than i candiscribe.
[11:59] <brobostigon> BigRedS: see above video link.
[12:00] <BigRedS> ah, cheers!
[12:02]  * HazRPG really dislikes flash at the moment :(
[12:02] <HazRPG> is there seriously no hack to force it to think I only have one display :(
[12:03] <ali1234> it already thinks you have one display
[12:03] <ali1234> that's how twinview works
[12:04] <HazRPG> see, I can't pass judgement for unity as it stands - because for a tablet/touch screen it would be the ideal interface to have - however for a desktop, I just think it's a gimmick, but well we'll see what happens on release :)
[12:05] <HazRPG> ali1234: no, as in is there not a hack to make it ignore the fact that the other screen is there
[12:05] <ali1234> there is no "other screen"
[12:05] <ali1234> you have 1 big screen
[12:05] <HazRPG> ali1234: yeah I understand that :P
[12:05] <HazRPG> what I mean is, to use half of it
[12:05] <brobostigon> i am going to move my build to my mums ubuntu desktop machine, as i havent yet tried gnome-shell on a big monitor yet.
[12:05] <ali1234> what you actually need is a way to define a subregion of the x server as a virtual screen which the app will see as the "whole screen"
[12:06] <ali1234> but this is not possible in x11 architecture
[12:06] <HazRPG> surely you could define what it thinks as fullscreen though
[12:06] <ali1234> no
[12:06] <brobostigon> ali1234: you could do that inside BeOS interface kit, as with haiku-os now.
[12:07] <ali1234> you would have to make an X11 extension to do it
[12:07] <brobostigon> agreed
[12:07] <mungojerry> brobostigon: have you also seen that app called The Board
[12:07] <HazRPG> ali1234: and by making said extension, developers would have to use those calls for it to be functional correct?
[12:07] <brobostigon> mungojerry: no, ihavent.
[12:08] <mungojerry> brobostigon:  https://live.gnome.org/TheBoardProject
[12:08] <ali1234> HazRPG: no, the correct functions already exist if adobe would use them
[12:08] <ali1234> the extension would allow you to "fix" broken apps
[12:09] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, like an override you mean?
[12:09] <ali1234> yes
[12:09] <mungojerry> brobostigon: would probably build easily on the machine you are using for gnome 3
[12:09] <HazRPG> I guess people haven't done it because they want people to actually code things right
[12:09] <HazRPG> guessing*
[12:09] <brobostigon> mungojerry: maybe, yes.
[12:09] <ali1234> and because there is very limited use for it
[12:10] <ali1234> actually, you could do something with xnest/xephyr
[12:10] <ali1234> but then you can kiss goodbye to graphics acceleration
[12:11] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, so are said problems nvidia or adobe's fault essentially?
[12:11] <ali1234> both
[12:11] <ali1234> either one could fix the problem
[12:11] <HazRPG> they just chose not to :/
[12:12] <HazRPG> typical
[12:12] <HazRPG> making us open-source guys look bad
[12:12] <mungojerry> brobostigon: running the gnome shell build..."If you are a user of Ubuntu, Debian, Mandriva, Gentoo or any other  distribution that has .la files in /usr/lib or /usr/lib64, you need to  remove them before you run the build. "
[12:12] <mungojerry> ugh really?
[12:13] <brobostigon> mungojerry: yes, it clashes,
[12:13] <mungojerry> pretty hideous kludge
[12:14] <HazRPG> ali1234: I'm guessing both nvidia and adobe are aware of it though - surely
[12:14] <ali1234> sure
[12:14] <ali1234> if they bother to look at their bug reports
[12:14] <HazRPG> heh
[12:15] <HazRPG> ali1234: they're not the only ones tbh, current "bug" in the bug reports for android is the lack of arabic support
[12:16] <HazRPG> if you don't mind rooting your system and installing any variant of android, you can get your arabic support - but out of the box there isn't one
[12:16] <HazRPG> I've had that bug starred for at least a year or more now
[12:22] <HazRPG> ali1234: thing that really gets me is that when you maximise an application, it doesn't attempt to paint it over the two physical screens, so there must be code in there to define each monitor separately... they just seem to refuse it for fullscreen apps
[12:22] <ali1234> right
[12:23] <ali1234> it's because there is a window manager call that says "make this window fullscreen" and does not require you to tell it the size
[12:23] <ali1234> but then instead of checking what size the resulting window is, they check the size of the whole screen (which is different)
[12:23] <ali1234> and then they preserve the aspect
[12:23] <ali1234> so you get a tiny video in the middle of the screen
[12:24] <HazRPG> hmm interesting
[12:24] <ali1234> as usual, this could be fixed with 15 minutes and the source
[12:24] <HazRPG> I was just about to say xD
[12:25] <ali1234> but adobe's linux developer is too busy writing blog posts about how linux sucks
[12:25] <HazRPG> I don't get how nvidia can sponsor some open-source projects, yet refuse to fix their own stuff
[12:25] <ali1234> well, tbh, the problems in nvidia driver would be a lot harder to fix
[12:26]  * AlanBell just fixed quizbot
[12:26] <ali1234> it would require rewriting large amounts of code
[12:27] <pr0ph3t> for free? are you mad?
[12:27] <HazRPG> I'm sure the community at large would be more than happy to help out though - given the chance
[12:27] <ali1234> hmm ok, you know nspluginwrapper?
[12:27] <ali1234> it could perhaps be fixed through that
[12:27] <ali1234> by redirecting the system calls
[12:27] <HazRPG> hmm isn't nspluginwrapper a browser plugin iirc
[12:27] <mungojerry> ali1234: the adobe blog makes me LOL
[12:27] <ali1234> when it asks "how big is the screen?" we just lie and tell it the size of it's own window
[12:27]  * HazRPG goes to google
[12:28] <ali1234> or the size of the subscreen it is on
[12:28] <ali1234> yeah, that should work
[12:28] <mungojerry> penguinswf is a trollbot that produces a post 1nce every 6 months to annoy linux users
[12:28] <HazRPG> ali1234: do you use twinview too?
[12:28] <ali1234> mungojerry: he really is a troll, you can tell because he only answers troll comments, and not the reasonable ones
[12:28] <ali1234> HazRPG: yes
[12:29] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm nspluginwrapper is for firefox it would seem
[12:29] <ali1234> yes
[12:29] <mungojerry> ali1234: yeah, and if he liked any one of (1) adobe (2) linux (3) his job or had a manager then he would produce better output
[12:31] <HazRPG> I wonder if there's a way to use qemu for just applications
[12:32] <HazRPG> that might do it too
[12:32] <ali1234> sure
[12:32] <ali1234> but it doesn't handle stuff like screens
[12:32] <ali1234> for that it uses xnest
[12:32] <HazRPG> ah, so would be pointless for videos using flash then
[12:32] <ali1234> but fixing it through nspluginwrapper would be better
[12:33] <HazRPG> ali1234: since I'm not keyed up on nspluginwrapper, I haven't a clue where to start
[12:35] <pr0ph3t> sory, to get a verbose startup, do I just remove the "quiet" option from /etc/default/grub and run update grub or do I need to do anything else, like delete splash as well?
[12:35] <ali1234> nspluginwrapper upstream package seems to be dead
[12:35] <pr0ph3t> *sorry"
[12:35] <pr0ph3t> ghh
[12:37] <HazRPG> I wish I knew how to change things in memory
[12:37] <brobostigon> pr0ph3t: i cant remember, however, there is a good gub2 page on the wiki, :)
[12:37] <brobostigon> grub2*
[12:37] <HazRPG> could probably write up a quick application that just changes the size with that - or at least fake certain falls for apps
[12:37] <HazRPG> calls*
[12:38] <ali1234> you can do it with a LD_PRELOAD
[12:38] <HazRPG> always been something I wanted to learn
[12:38] <ali1234> if you can figure out what system call it is using
[12:38] <ali1234> you can do that with strace
[12:39] <mungojerry> pr0ph3t: remember you can always edit grub kernel options "inline" at boot time to make non-permanent changes
[12:39] <pr0ph3t> brobostigon, that's where I got that information :) I was just wondering if it was correct what I had gathered from reading the wiki
[12:40] <brobostigon> pr0ph3t: from what iknow,yes.but i suggested what i did to check.
[12:40] <pr0ph3t> mungojerry, pressing "e", sure
[12:40] <mungojerry> cool
[12:40] <pr0ph3t> I'll give it a go
[12:40] <HazRPG> ali1234: heh, I'm surprised with your knowledge that you haven't done it
[12:40] <pr0ph3t> thanks!
[12:40] <HazRPG> ali1234: ... or maybe you already have :P
[12:41] <ali1234> it's not terribly important to me
[12:41] <ali1234> flash videos look terrible fullscreen anyway
[12:41] <HazRPG> not all
[12:41] <ali1234> and/or do not play full speed
[12:41] <HazRPG> really? I've never experienced that
[12:42] <HazRPG> it use to be the case a few years back
[12:42] <HazRPG> I remember the days when there wasn't a flash plugin for linux
[12:42] <HazRPG> adobe flash* I should say
[12:42] <BigRedS> hah. gnash
[12:42] <BigRedS> that put me off flash way more than any actual flash-based monstrosities have since
[12:57] <HazRPG> ali1234: just out of interest, where did you learn this stuff?
[12:58] <HazRPG> BigRedS: heh yeah I agree :P
[13:07] <ali1234> HazRPG: mainly from reading the source code
[13:07] <ali1234> and from reading mailing list posts and asking questions on irc
[13:13] <domjohnson> Me: How much is this wireless phone? | Dodgy market stall guy: 3 quid | Me: Do they work? | DMSG: Err...yeah...| Me: Ok, I'll take this one, please
[13:13] <domjohnson> Later
[13:13] <HazRPG> ali1234: any source code I'm guessing?
[13:14] <ali1234> sure
[13:14] <ali1234> kernel is a good place to start
[13:14] <domjohnson> *PLugs in phone* "Hmm...not working... guess it needs charging. *Later* Should be charged now... hmm...screen doesn't work. Nvm, it was cheap...*tries to ring...nothing happens* "Oh...its not plugged in" *plugs in to phone socket...no dialling tone*
[13:14] <domjohnson> Bastard DMSG :/
[13:14] <ali1234> i'll give you £1 for it
[13:14] <AlanBell> domjohnson: Caveat Emptor
[13:15] <HazRPG> domjohnson: oops lol
[13:15] <domjohnson> Yeah....but...he said it worked...
[13:15] <domjohnson> lol
[13:16] <domjohnson> I would return it, but it means getting the ferry there and back (only a 15 min trip, but they only come every half hour, so...cba)
[13:16] <domjohnson> Tip: Never buy from a DMSG...
[13:16] <screen-x> or a DebayG
[13:16] <ali1234> show us a picture of it
[13:17] <screen-x> [C
[13:17] <domjohnson> Haven't got my camera here, ali1234...I'm at my Dad's
[13:17] <screen-x> that looks weirdly like an emoticon, I'm not sure what for though.
[13:18]  * HazRPG just did: strace /opt/google/chrome/chrome
[13:18] <popey> Welcome to the past Andromedan !
[13:18] <popey> How is the future!?
[13:18] <HazRPG> talk about screen overload!
[13:19] <screen-x> HazRPG: probably need -f for tracing chrome as it forks loads.
[13:19] <HazRPG> ah
[13:19] <HazRPG> was wondering why it stopped outputting stuff
[13:20] <domjohnson> brb
[13:23] <HazRPG> screen-x: hmm, doing that has made it freeze on one line
[13:23] <mungojerry> domjohnson: what's a DMSG?
[13:24] <mungojerry> ah, dodgy market stall guy..
[13:24] <HazRPG> mungojerry: Dodgy Market Stall Guy
[13:24] <HazRPG> indeed
[13:24] <BigRedS> HazRPG: and -o to get a [grep|less]able file
[13:25] <mungojerry> £3 sounds too good to be true for anything
[13:25]  * popey hugs poundland
[13:25] <popey> £3 seems massively overpriced ;)
[13:25] <mungojerry> our "pounds the limit" shop closed down
[13:26] <mungojerry> due to competition from 99p  over the road..which replaced woolworth (remember them)
[13:26] <HazRPG> BigRedS: pointless if I can't even get get it to go past a certain point by tacking -f
[13:26] <mungojerry> footfall in 99p store is > 10x the footfall of woolworth
[13:30] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, I think if I'm ever going to use strace and LD_PRELOAD, I'll need to start small >_<
[13:34] <mungojerry> fact of the day: in venezuela, all computer games  in which the objective is to shoot people are banned
[13:36] <BigRedS> what if that's the means to the objective? :)
[13:36] <BigRedS> there's precious few where that's teh only objective. Normally not getting killed is the objective.
[13:37] <mungojerry> i think it includes violent games where you shoot people
[13:38] <BigRedS> yeah, I suspected as much. I'm in a finding-loopholes sort of a mood at the minute :)
[13:39] <ali1234> HazRPG: i actually can't reproduce on iplayer or jwplayer, and the youtube player won't run in nspluginplayer
[13:39] <mungojerry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_video_games : in saudi arabia pokemon cards are banned because of "promoting Zionism and gambling" :)
[13:39] <HazRPG> ali1234: how'd ya mean?
[13:39] <HazRPG> ali1234: oh the full-screen effect?
[13:39] <ali1234> well on iplayer, fullscreen works as i would expect
[13:40] <ali1234> and on jwplayer too
[13:40] <HazRPG> yeah I've noticed its fine on those, its mainly youtube and a few other sites that seem to hate making stuff full-screen properly
[13:40] <HazRPG> which makes me to believe that its youtube's fault for using an older fullscreen function
[13:42]  * HazRPG tries to remember another site that causes this issue
[13:42] <ali1234> it used to happen on iplayer
[13:43] <ali1234> also, none will go fullscreen on anything other than the primary display
[13:43] <HazRPG> ali1234: heh you know, I've never tried doing that before
[13:44] <mungojerry> vimeo?
[13:44] <ali1234> well, here is what i am trying to do
[13:44] <HazRPG> mungojerry: was just about to go there :P
[13:44] <mungojerry> i find vimeo rather sucky
[13:45] <HazRPG> mungojerry: nope, vimeo is fine
[13:45] <HazRPG> mungojerry: why? Just the content? or the quality?
[13:45] <mungojerry> quality, often experience sound issues
[13:45] <ali1234> nspluginplayer style="width:400px; height:326px;"id="VideoPlayback"  type="application/x-shockwave-flash"  src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-7309713943323243972&hl=en-GB"  flashvars=""
[13:46] <ali1234> if you run that command you will see a flash video playing in a standalone window but still using the plugin
[13:46] <HazRPG> I really like vimeo, usually creative types use it for videos of stuff they've sketched, 3d stuff, and some random other stuff
[13:46] <ali1234> but that particular player (google video) has no fullscreen button
[13:46] <ali1234> so if someone can find a command line like that which also reproduces the issue, i will be able to investigate further
[13:46] <ali1234> youtube won't work though
[13:50] <mungojerry> woo gnome shell has finished compiling
[13:50] <brobostigon> :)
[13:50] <brobostigon> mungojerry: told you it would take a while, gtk3 is the biggest.
[13:50] <ali1234> vimeo doesn't have the problem either
[13:51] <HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.novamov.com/embed.php?v=tasq5orxb2bks <== that has a different fullscreen issue, but still similar problem
[13:51] <mungojerry> brobostigon: couple of hours wasn't too bad
[13:51] <HazRPG> that's a direct link to a video
[13:51] <mungojerry> no issues either
[13:51] <brobostigon> mungojerry: noissues, thats good. :)
[13:52] <ali1234> hmm
[13:52] <ali1234> similar... it must be using yet another way to get the screen size
[13:52] <HazRPG> ali1234: its still grabbing the whole screen size, except that doesn't even attempt to scale it
[13:53] <ujjain> what is the word for sexual wordplay? I think it´s also the name of a song. It´s not insomnia :p
[13:54] <ali1234> innuendo
[13:54] <ujjain> thanks!!
[13:54] <brobostigon> or chatting someone up,
[13:54] <ujjain> Of course :D innuendo!
[13:54] <mungojerry> ujjain: are you in the correct room?
[13:54] <mungojerry> :P
[13:54] <ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innuendo_%28album%29
[13:54] <kvarley> How can I delete a file which says "Device or resource busy" ?
[13:54] <ujjain> I knew it was Queen :p
[13:54] <ujjain> hahaha mungojerry,
[13:55] <diplo> kvarley, see what is using said file
[13:55] <diplo> lsof
[13:55] <Baikonur> am i in the wrong room then
[13:55] <diplo> lsof filename
[13:55] <HazRPG> wow, even the videos on the telegraph work fine >_<
[13:58] <ali1234> i might have to actually go to the trouble of making my own swf file just to reproduce the bug
[13:59] <HazRPG> ali1234: that might be hard... I've just checked 20 different sites
[13:59] <ali1234> shouldn't be too hard to just make a swf that goes fullscreen
[13:59] <HazRPG> ali1234: seems youtube must have its own way making it fullscreen
[13:59] <brobostigon> mungojerry: any problems, i know the right people to ask, :)
[13:59] <ali1234> and then just look up all the various methods of getting the screen size
[13:59] <ali1234> they all use the same fullscreen method (see "press escape to exit fullscreen" - that comes from flash)
[14:00] <HazRPG> ali1234: is it easy to make swf's in linux?
[14:00] <ali1234> the difference is how they then determine the size of the fullscreen window
[14:00] <ali1234> obviously some get it right and others don't
[14:00] <ali1234> so there must be more than one way to do it in actionscript
[14:00] <HazRPG> oh, heh yeah
[14:00]  * HazRPG recalls the days he did flash
[14:01]  * screen-x wonders if the sites that "get it right" server OS specific SWFs
[14:01] <screen-x> s/server/serve up/
[14:01] <ali1234> i doubt it
[14:02] <ali1234> jwplayer is open source and gets it right, so that can be one starting point
[14:02] <HazRPG> screen-x: it'll just be coincidence if anything
[14:02] <HazRPG> ali1234: true
[14:02] <mungojerry> brobostigon: it doesn't seem very intuitive :(
[14:02] <kvarley> Urgh, can't delete a file on a NAS unit. It says resource busy but nothing is accessing it anymore.
[14:03] <mungojerry> kvarley: are you running lsof as root?
[14:03] <brobostigon> mungojerry: which bit are you having trouble with ?
[14:04] <brobostigon> mungojerry: hit superkey, it might help.
[14:04] <kvarley> mungojerry its a network share though so I cant connect to it using lsof
[14:04] <mungojerry> brobostigon: there's no minimise button, or window list
[14:05] <brobostigon> mungojerry: one is a consequence of the other, no need for one, without the other.
[14:06]  * mungojerry ponders
[14:07] <brobostigon> mungojerry: also why have minimise, when there isnt a real desktop, to minimise to.
[14:07] <screen-x> mungojerry: seems to be all about the overview view, but I haven't tried it yet..
[14:08] <mungojerry> brobostigon: let me set the scene : i have 50 windows open on my machine, how do i select the correct terminal session? expose mode shows them too small to see
[14:09] <screen-x> mungojerry: how do you do that in gnome 2.x?
[14:09] <popey> ALT TAB? :)
[14:09] <mungojerry> with docky
[14:09] <brobostigon> mungojerry: try alt-tab, and it should collect them together in categories, and thenchoose which window fromthere.
[14:09] <screen-x> 50 windows seems like loads, afterall thats what screen is for ;-)
[14:10] <mungojerry> also, i have a browser window, and it's in the way - you must be able to minimize without doing right-click on title bar -> mionimize
[14:10] <screen-x> though you have to recompile it to get more than 40..
[14:10] <mungojerry> screen-x: i have lots of apps open..not just terminal
[14:10] <brobostigon> mungojerry: also try the app list onthe left, after you have hit superkey.
[14:11] <mungojerry> brobostigon: you're right
[14:11] <mungojerry> i thought it was a favourites quick launcher thing
[14:11] <hoover> cheers all, have a nice weekend
[14:11] <brobostigon> mungojerry: its that also.
[14:11] <mungojerry> so it's a dock(y)?
[14:11] <brobostigon> mungojerry: kinda,
[14:13] <mungojerry> screen-x: this is my desktop on a good day http://i.imgur.com/K50TB.jpg
[14:14] <popey> I see at least two duplicate windows there
[14:14] <mungojerry> maybe they are on different virtual desktops :P
[14:14] <popey> nope, 6
[14:15] <popey> yeah, i guess :)
[14:15] <mungojerry> don't look too closely
[14:15] <mungojerry> ;)
[14:15] <otaku_coder> hi, I'm having some issues with my DVD RW drive not being found in brasero or gnomebaker, however it does show up when i run lshw -class disk -class storage
[14:16] <mungojerry> anyway gnome shell and unity both require a different way of thinking...so long as the devs realise this and cater for different needs then i'm happy with that
[14:16] <mungojerry> i accept i will need to change the way i work a little bit, (or else use gnome classic)
[14:20] <HazRPG> ali1234: I'm starting to think that its mainly flash and that other site that seem to have this issue
[14:21] <brobostigon> mungojerry: the gnome3 devs, have put alot of thought and testing into it, :)
[14:21] <HazRPG> brb, going for lunch
[14:21] <HazRPG> before the school traffic hits
[14:22] <daubers> mungojerry: I was using Unity without even using it the othernday. It's become a bit off shifting back to my work machine which is on classic gnome tbh
[14:25] <mungojerry> gnome3 feels quite fast on an older machine
[14:25] <mungojerry> i already installed docky so complement the gnome3 experience :)
[14:25] <brobostigon> mungojerry: you are using gnome-shell, not a complete gnome3,
[14:26] <mungojerry> sorry s/3/shell
[14:47] <screen-x> I'm having trouble with upgrading certain users from 8.04 to 10.04, evolution is crashing when updating the mailbox format (sqlite migration).
[14:47] <screen-x> Haven't been able to find a bug with a fix, anyone else come across this?
[14:49] <screen-x> mungojerry: apparently the image of your desktop isn't available anymore.
[15:03] <danfish> oops - the new linux based Stock Exchange platform is down again :(
[15:03] <danfish> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/25/stock_exchange_down_again/
[15:04] <gord> right, so how can we blame it on windows?
[15:05] <danfish> errr, someone was trying to use ie6 which led to a buffer overun and a solar flare ;)
[15:05] <mungojerry> linux doesn't really have much to do with the application problem though?
[15:05] <danfish> say it quick enough and look sincere and at least 90% will believe it
[15:06] <bigcalm> Don't blame Linux, blame the developers
[15:06] <mungojerry> i guess if el reg didn't troll then they would get less readers..
[15:06] <mungojerry> or maybe not :)
[15:06] <JamesTait> It runs on Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, and Novell have that relationship with Microsoft. Must be Microsoft's fault. ;)
[15:07] <bigcalm> Or fewer readers
[15:07] <bigcalm> JamesTait: well done
[15:07] <JamesTait> I've had a bit of practise. :)
[15:11] <mungojerry> millenium IT's website doesn't even work properly with linux..
[15:12] <kvarley> I'm trying to run a 32 bit application on my 64 bit ubuntu installation - I have already copiued over some 32bit libs to /usr/lib32/ in order for the application to run, however it's still giving errors. Any ideas as to how I can fix it?
[15:12] <kvarley> http://paste.ubuntu.com/572208/
[15:16] <directhex> mungojerry, everyone blamed their previous system, which ran on MS os/database/etc, on MS. so i see turnabout as fair play
[15:16] <bigcalm> I blame mans' greed
[15:17] <ali1234> SUSE is a huge pile of poopy
[15:17] <ali1234> nothing works right on it, ever
[15:17] <ali1234> including the package manager and installer
[15:17] <bigcalm> YAST did
[15:17] <bigcalm> Hehe
[15:17] <bigcalm> Back in the day...
[15:17] <ali1234> i have never seen YAST work properly
[15:17] <Myrtti> yast makes baby kitten angels cry
[15:17] <ali1234> it always hangs up while making mysterious changes to your config files
[15:18] <ali1234> then you have no option but to kill it and leave your config in an unknown state
[15:18] <ali1234> and it doesn't even tell you what it is doing so you can't check the damage
[15:18] <ali1234> it's basically only useful as an example of how NOT to make a configuration editor
[15:19] <bigcalm> Well, that was a bit ranty ;)
[15:19] <BigRedS> yast does make me appreciate yum
[15:20] <ali1234> yast2 is even worse
[15:20] <maco> BigRedS: suse now has a thing called zypper
[15:20] <maco> you can use it on the command line like yum or apt-get instead of dealing with yast's annoying interface
[15:21] <BigRedS> Ah, actually I've been nowhere near yast for about six years
[15:21] <BigRedS> or suse for that matter, and only briefly anywhere near yum
[15:21] <BigRedS> it's been quite nice recently :)
[15:21] <ali1234> zypper is ok but yum is about 10 times faster
[15:21] <maco> a job i had a year ago involved using suse a bit, and i whinged to zonker til he told me about zypper
[15:22] <directhex> zypper is still crap though
[15:22] <ali1234> the only safe way you can admin a suse box is leave a postit note on the keyboard saying "DO NOT RUN YAST"
[15:22] <directhex> hail satan that now i don't deal with non-debian distros for work
[15:23] <directhex> one big bright thing about changing job!
[15:25] <gord> does anyone know how to close a firefox window when you don't have global menu because the new firefox version broke api compatibility with the global menu extension and the window is a menu'less window and you don't have any window decorations? because i'm kinda stuck
[15:25] <ali1234> file->close?
[15:25] <ali1234> oh, global menu broke
[15:26] <Laney> ctrl-w?
[15:26] <Laney> q, whatever
[15:26] <ali1234> ctrl-q quits
[15:26] <Laney> sure does
[15:26] <ali1234> ctrl-w closes a tab, you probably want that
[15:26] <gord> sweet, thanks
[15:27] <Laney> ah ,ctrl+shift+w closes a window
[15:28] <kvarley> popey - minecraft server still running?
[15:29] <popey> ya
[15:29] <HazRPG> back
[15:29] <kvarley> popey - I lost the address, please could you re-send?
[15:31] <popey> popeydc.dyndns.org
[15:31] <popey> dont break stuff
[15:31] <popey> also #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
[15:31] <kvarley> thanks :)
[15:33] <Myrtti> Pendulum: http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Cadbury-Creme-Eggs/
[15:33] <czajkowski> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/UKGovOpenStandards  spread the word
[15:41] <bigcalm> I'm in need of a new keyboard. What's reasonably priced and good for coding with?
[15:42] <popey> IBM Model M
[15:43] <directhex> i like my logitech illuminated
[15:43] <directhex> but i like flat keys
[15:43] <bigcalm> popey: maybe I should have said that it needs to be available to buy as well ;) I had a model m, great kb
[15:45] <Myrtti> isn't das keyboard a close kin to model m
[15:45] <bigcalm> Myrtti: ?
[15:45] <directhex> DAS KEYBOARD
[15:45] <directhex> it has no letters!
[15:46] <bigcalm> Ooo
[15:46] <Myrtti> directhex: they do have models with the letters too
[15:46] <ali1234> i'll sell you a model m
[15:47] <bigcalm> WTF ARGH OH MY
[15:47] <bigcalm> http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/
[15:47] <bigcalm> 129 usd
[15:47] <HazRPG> oh heh I was looking at those about a week ago :P
[15:47] <HazRPG> it has linux key!
[15:47] <bigcalm> LOL, they sell ear plugs for cow-orkers
[15:48] <HazRPG> bigcalm: haha, that was my first reaction too :P
[15:48] <popey> there is a US company that still make/sell buckling spring kbs
[15:48] <popey> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/
[15:48] <HazRPG> popey: no way!
[15:48] <popey> they now ship to the UK
[15:49] <popey> mate of mine is building up an order
[15:49] <HazRPG> popey: oh wow! http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/noname1.html
[15:50] <Myrtti> US layout :-<
[15:50] <HazRPG> Myrtti: heh
[15:50] <Myrtti> ooo
[15:50] <HazRPG> Myrtti: you can ignore them though if you set it to  UK layout
[15:50]  * HazRPG has done for years on his AR keyset laptop
[15:50] <bigcalm> popey: how very tempting, thank you :)
[15:51] <HazRPG> wow linux keyboard
[15:51] <popey> Myrtti: you can choose the layout
[15:51] <Myrtti> popey: noticed
[15:51] <HazRPG> with the CAP-lock key moved :P
[15:51] <popey> :)
[15:51] <Myrtti> HazRPG: I can't live with a US keyboard.
[15:51] <bigcalm> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html
[15:51] <bigcalm> You can have a UK keyboard layout
[15:51] <Myrtti> HazRPG: I can live with a UK one because I can change the keyboard layout, but US is beyond help because of the missing keys
[15:52] <HazRPG> Myrtti: Is it just because you know it's a US layout? Or because you still look at the keys occasionally?
[15:52] <bigcalm> My workstation has PS2 ports, great to keep usb ports free :)
[15:52] <HazRPG> Myrtti: oh
[15:52] <Myrtti> HazRPG: US keyboard physically lacks buttons
[15:52] <bigcalm> Yus
[15:53] <HazRPG> Myrtti: do they?
[15:53] <HazRPG> which keys?
[15:53] <popey> my mate is looking at ordering this weekend
[15:53] <Myrtti> UK == FI but with keys mapped to different buttons, US != UK
[15:53] <popey> if anyone wants me to order one, let me know
[15:53] <Myrtti> in my usage US is lacking the one that has ><| and/or '*
[15:55]  * bigcalm clicks checkout
[15:55] <bigcalm> popey: humm, cheeper shipping?
[15:55] <HazRPG> Myrtti: oh yeah, looking at the key sets - its just one key that's missing
[15:56] <popey> bigcalm: dunno, just thinking of maybe getting some kind of discount if buying lots
[15:56] <bigcalm> How many is he ordering so far?
[15:57] <popey> not sure
[15:57] <popey> will probably look over the weekend
[15:57] <bigcalm> I'm one of those impluse buyers who needs to order now or will forget
[15:57] <popey> you wont forget, I will remind you
[15:58] <popey> (I am the same btw)
[15:58] <popey> hence having 3 jogglers and 4 hp microservers
[15:58] <bigcalm> Heh
[15:58] <HazRPG> heh, I think anyone who likes using their computers have the impulse-buy bug
[15:59]  * HazRPG stares at his DELL server that he just HAD to have.
[15:59]  * BigRedS remembers the pile of laptops in his cupboard
[16:00] <HazRPG> BigRedS: heh, I have a shed full
[16:01] <mungojerry> czajkowski: did you find that survey a bit ....weird?
[16:01] <HazRPG> mungojerry: survey?
[16:02] <mungojerry> HazRPG: "czajkowski: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/UKGovOpenStandards  spread the word"
[16:02] <popey> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104wh.html
[16:02] <popey> thats the one we're looking at
[16:04] <HazRPG> mungojerry: nice
[16:05] <HazRPG> popey: ooo black!
[16:05] <HazRPG> popey: now with extra nipple!
[16:06] <HazRPG> I miss those nipple mice
[16:06] <davmor2> czajkowski: have a nice break in Spain
[16:06] <ali1234> survey repeats the same questions, miscategorizes things, and won't let you "Start a new line for each"
[16:06] <czajkowski> davmor2: I will
[16:07] <popey> :)
[16:07] <czajkowski> davmor2:  will you and MooDoo cope!
[16:07]  * davmor2 reminds popey to get the borders closed this time
[16:07] <HazRPG> popey: found them much better than the touch pad variety - my wrists keep spreading over to touch pad and moving the mouse/clicking/dragging stuff :/
[16:07] <davmor2> czajkowski: Oh yes.
[16:08]  * davmor2 Still got FB and Twitter to annoy czajkowski on :P
[16:09] <czajkowski> davmor2: only if I log in
[16:09] <davmor2> czajkowski: you'll read it at some point :P
[16:09] <dutchie> HazRPG: thinkpad \o/
[16:10] <dutchie> confuses anyone else who borrows my laptop no end when they can't work out why the touchpad isn't working
[16:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: you got android phone so it'll show up on there anyway :D
[16:11] <czajkowski> the fn key on Lenovo is a pain as it confuses me as that is where my ctrl key is on my own laptop
[16:11] <dutchie> yeah, now normal laptops confuse me in that respect
[16:11] <dutchie> also F1 is flush left, with esc above it
[16:11] <dutchie> which can cause issues
[16:16] <HazRPG> dutchie: haha, guessing you disabled the touchpad :P
[16:17] <HazRPG> I use to confuse my friends when I used my old acer for very similar stuff, because they couldn't work out how to use the nipple mouse
[16:17] <HazRPG> they  kept asking me how I used it without a mouse :P
[16:17] <HazRPG> amused me no end :P
[16:18] <HazRPG> s/simple/similar
[16:51] <HazRPG> woo! Being human is back!
[17:06] <ali1234> FINALLY i have fullscreen working from nspluginplayer
[17:07] <ali1234> nspluginplayer embed src="../swfplayers/34-fullscreen.swf" allowFullScreen="true"
[17:12] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[17:14] <pr0ph3t> to share a media path over the internet and not just the home network I tried sharing it with the right button/share folder option. Then I tried accessing the folder from remote but it doesn't work. I forwarded the port on my router as well
[17:15] <pr0ph3t> I'm trying to access it from my android phone
[17:20] <popey> wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[17:26] <marxjohnson> That's a long slide you've got there, popey
[17:28] <popey> :D
[17:28]  * popey is happy, work contract just got renewed
[17:29] <Pendulum> popey: yay!
[17:29] <marxjohnson> woot
[17:29] <marxjohnson> Beers on you at oggcamp then ;-)
[17:30] <marxjohnson> unless it's only renewed until just before <undisclosed date>
[17:30] <popey> :D
[17:30] <popey> it is
[17:30] <popey> two weeks before said <undisclosed date>
[17:30] <marxjohnson> curses
[17:30] <popey> ncurses
[17:31] <marxjohnson> i see what you did there...
[17:43] <gord> every 15 minutes or so all day ubuntu one has been popping up to tell me that its 71% complete, i'm going insane
[17:53] <jacobw> it might be 72% next time :)
[17:53] <gord> it wasn't...
[17:53] <jacobw> ye of little faith
[17:53] <gord> its more like 10 minutes
[17:56] <Myrtti> bah. should I go to bed or should I try to do something sensible
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> yes.
[18:03] <gord> guess what guys, 71% completed!
[18:03] <gord> Myrtti, minecraft!
[18:03] <gord> minecraft in bed!
[18:03] <Myrtti> gord: still trying not to strain my arm too much
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> use the other one
[18:06] <Myrtti> I went to bed at eight last night :-/
[18:28] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: was it you that sent the link to lolcode.com?
[18:30] <HazRPG> just been going through it... I almost pmsl
[18:31] <HazRPG> sent the link over to a friend who dabbles in a bit of coding from time to time
[18:31] <HazRPG> he usually sends me lolcats stuff, and yet he didn't find the lolbash funny
[18:32] <HazRPG> then again the only terminal commands he knows is apt-get, ls and that's it
[18:33] <ali1234> joke programming languages usually aren't that funny
[18:39] <ali1234> INTERCAL is rather amusing in that it parodies "trendy" languages, especially since it pre-dates most of today's "trendy" languages by 30 or so years
[18:39] <Napo> i have installed and started apache2 but when I type http://localhost, I have checked /etc/hosts and there is mapping of localhost to 127.0.0.1
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: lolcode was funny when it came out, because lolcats where relatively new then
[18:41] <Napo> sorry part of the question was swallowed. I mean when i type http://localhost and enter the browser does not connect to the server
[18:42] <ali1234> well, lolcats are only funny because there is a picture of a cat, lolcode lacks this...
[18:42] <marxjohnson> Napo does going to http://127.0.0.1 work?
[18:43] <Napo> marxjohnson no just tried and it did not connect. i am using ubuntu 10.10 btw
[18:45] <marxjohnson> how about ping localhost?
[18:45] <brobostigon> evening everyone.
[18:45] <Napo> marxjohnson I got a ping
[18:46] <marxjohnson> cool, ok take a look at /var/log/apache2/error.log
[18:46] <HazRPG> ali1234: true... but still amusing if you understand it though
[18:46] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hey dude
[18:46] <marxjohnson> see if there's anything obvious
[18:46] <brobostigon> HazRPG: hey, :)
[18:51] <ali1234> so i'm tracing flashplugin library calls now
[18:51] <ali1234> except ltrace seems to not follow execution into the lib
[18:51] <Napo> could this be the problem?  http://pastie.org/1607085
[18:52] <marxjohnson> hmm no shouldn't be, that's just non-fatal PHP errors
[18:53] <marxjohnson> have you changed any apache configuration?
[19:04] <Napo> marxjohnson the only thing i did was compile xdebug and install it, in the process i had to add the line zend_extension = /usr/lib/php5/20090626+lfs/xdebug.so to /etc/php5/apache5/conf.d
[19:05] <marxjohnson> Hmm again that should only affect PHP
[19:06] <Napo> marxjohnson i will uninstall and reinstall apache2 then
[19:06] <marxjohnson> ok
[19:17] <zleap> hi
[19:18] <ali1234> hmm... ltrace doesn't catch calls made through dlopen...
[19:18] <ali1234> at least, not directly
[19:19] <ali1234> so... how would i trace that?
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: gdb?
[19:20] <ali1234> i hate gdb :(
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> some GUI for it then
[19:20] <zleap> not sure,  what does strace do,?
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> strace should work, but traces system calls, not library calls
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> so it's a level deeper
[19:21] <zleap> ah ok
[19:21] <ali1234> actually it probably is tracing it
[19:21] <ali1234> but i can't filter on the so name
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: the ltrace manpage says dlopen()ed libs won't be traced
[19:21] <ali1234> :(
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: which problem are you trying to solve? :)
[19:22] <zleap> if you type trace it then lists several trace utils or i seem to get that here
[19:22] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: flashplugin fullscreen mode fails to determine the screen resolution correctly when used with twinview
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: you won't be able to fix that unless you work for Adobe
[19:23] <ali1234> so i'm trying to find out what library or system call it uses that gives the "wrong" answer
[19:23] <ali1234> then i will patch it with a LD_PRELOAD
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it might be harder than that :)
[19:23] <ali1234> so when it asks the OS "how big is the screen?" the OS will lie to it :)
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it might just be a libx11-call
[19:24] <ali1234> probably, but which one?
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> get out the X11 docs :)
[19:24] <ali1234> that's not going to tell me which one the plugin uses
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> there aren't many calls that return screen resolution
[19:29] <ali1234> gotta be one of these: http://pastebin.com/5aFHY5Qq
[19:29] <ali1234> thing is, i don't want to trace the dlopen calls, i want to trace what the code called through dlopen calls (and that is done with normal linking)
[19:29] <ssk_the_gr8> new to ubuntu... need help
[19:29] <ssk_the_gr8> am i in the right channel?
[19:30] <ali1234> sure
[19:30] <jacobw> yes :)
[19:30] <zleap> ssk_the_gr8, yep
[19:30] <zleap> how can we help
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's not possible, or you'll have to use gdb to step through the calls
[19:30] <ali1234> it should be possible :)
[19:31] <ssk_the_gr8> so i'm installing ubuntu 64 bit in a new partation of 100gb
[19:31] <ssk_the_gr8> can i acces my windows ntfs partation from ubuntu?
[19:31] <ali1234> yes
[19:31] <zleap> yes
[19:31] <ssk_the_gr8> deleting files.. editing files.. all of it
[19:31] <ssk_the_gr8> ?
[19:31] <ali1234> yes
[19:32] <ssk_the_gr8> can windows acces ubuntu partation?
[19:32] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: what about if i write a wrapper for flashplugin.so (it only exports 4 functions) which attaches ltrace to the called code at runtime?
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> ssk_the_gr8: not easily
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: You are a scary man.
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: just attach gdb
[19:33] <ssk_the_gr8> is it possible?
[19:33] <ali1234> ssk_the_gr8: only for ext2/ext3 which are not the default
[19:33] <ssk_the_gr8> whats the default?
[19:33] <ali1234> ext4
[19:33] <zleap> ext4 iirc
[19:33] <jacobw> it is possible, but not easy or desirable
[19:33] <ssk_the_gr8> k
[19:33] <ali1234> even when it works, it isn't very good
[19:34] <ssk_the_gr8> if at a later date i decide.. i don't need windows .. how do i delete that paration... what do i have to do?
[19:34] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: how do i do it with gdb then?
[19:35] <zleap> i think you cam just format it
[19:35] <marxjohnson> ssk_the_gr8: just open up gparted (partition editor) and delete the NFTS partition, then resize the Linux partition to take up the space
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: "step"
[19:35] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: no, "step" is not a good answer, i would have to step for days and days
[19:35] <ssk_the_gr8> marxjohnson: thanx
[19:35] <ssk_the_gr8> and if i want to delete ubuntu?
[19:36] <ssk_the_gr8> what abt the grub loader?
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: set breakpoint on libx11 calls that return screen size
[19:36] <brobostigon> ssk_the_gr8: a live cd, and then gparted again.
[19:36] <ali1234> i want a list of every library called by flashplugin.so over the course of running interactively for at least a minute
[19:36] <brobostigon> ssk_the_gr8: and then reinstall windows boot manager,
[19:37] <jacobw> but why would you want to do that :p
[19:37] <ali1234> i don't see why i can't just set a breakpoint on any library call in that case
[19:37] <ali1234> ie what ltrace does
[19:37] <ssk_the_gr8> jacobw: 1st time linux
[19:37] <ssk_the_gr8> may not like it..
[19:37] <marxjohnson> ssk_the_gr8: If you just want to try it out you could install in a VM?
[19:38] <jacobw> yeah :) i was being mischeavious
[19:38] <marxjohnson> saves the grief of partitioning your real hard disk, and lets you share files between the 2
[19:38] <jacobw> or try it with wubi
[19:38] <ssk_the_gr8> i have used it in a vm ... liked it.. want to make it my primary os
[19:38] <marxjohnson> ah cool
[19:39] <ali1234> better to put windows in the VM
[19:39] <ali1234> just sayin
[19:39] <ssk_the_gr8> so trying to move out of windows
[19:39] <marxjohnson> could try the opposite then? Just ubuntu with Windows in VM?
[19:39] <ssk_the_gr8> ali1234: good idea
[19:39] <ssk_the_gr8> vmware must be available for ubuntu..
[19:39] <ssk_the_gr8> but i have the oem edition... HP laptop
[19:39] <marxjohnson> I use VirtualBox
[19:40] <jacobw> make sure that you have windows install media if you want to do that though, it sounds basic but people forget that they were never given windows install discs by their oem
[19:40] <zleap> ssk_the_gr8, yesl also virtual box which can do the same
[19:40] <ssk_the_gr8> will it install in VM...
[19:40] <ssk_the_gr8> i have made the restore discs
[19:40] <zleap> ok
[19:40] <ssk_the_gr8> ?
[19:40] <marxjohnson> hmm try it in a VM under Windows first, but I'd guess not
[19:41] <ssk_the_gr8> thats what i was thinking...
[19:41] <ssk_the_gr8> people keep telling me they comeacross stuff that does not work on linux
[19:42] <ssk_the_gr8> so i wanted to keep windows
[19:42] <ali1234> plenty of stuff does not work on linux
[19:42] <ssk_the_gr8> i thought you all would contradict me.. :D
[19:42] <ali1234> plenty of stuff does not work on windows either
[19:42] <zleap> ali1234, viruses :D
[19:43] <marxjohnson> the trick is to have the patience to find the alternative that does the same job on Linux
[19:43] <ssk_the_gr8> btw, how do i install windows boot manager?
[19:43] <ali1234> zleap: there are plenty of viruses for linux
[19:43] <zleap> i thought there were a few that were proof of concept
[19:43] <ssk_the_gr8> ali1234: really?
[19:43] <ali1234> yes really. you won't see any of them unless you run a server though
[19:43] <zleap> ok
[19:44] <ali1234> these days, viruses are cross platform
[19:44] <ssk_the_gr8> btw, how do i install windows boot manager?
[19:44] <ali1234> typical botnet has components that run on linux or windows
[19:44] <daubers> Evening
[19:44] <zleap> not sure,  i gues it istalls when you install windows
[19:44] <marxjohnson> I think you need a windows rescue disk
[19:44] <marxjohnson> ive never done it though
[19:45] <ssk_the_gr8> hmmm...
[19:45] <marxjohnson> You dont need it if you remove Ubuntu though
[19:45] <zleap> do you need a windows boot manager won't grub  load windows or does it just call the windows boot manager
[19:45] <marxjohnson> you can just leave grub booting windows only
[19:45] <jacobw> you need windows install disc, which contains a recovery routine
[19:46] <jacobw> you'd need to keep the partition that grub was installed on though..
[19:46] <brobostigon> or the mbr*
[19:46] <ssk_the_gr8> last time i deleted the oartation and i couldn't acces windows either...
[19:46] <zleap> ah
[19:47] <ssk_the_gr8> so how do i install grub on a diff partation and ubuntu on a different one?
[19:47] <jacobw> different /boot parition
[19:47] <zleap> i guess when you partition the disk create a new small boot partition
[19:47] <ssk_the_gr8> what size?
[19:48] <marxjohnson> Only needs to be about 100MB
[19:48] <ssk_the_gr8> and what do i do... to get grub to install in that 100 mb
[19:48] <ssk_the_gr8> ?
[19:48] <marxjohnson> just set it as /boot
[19:48] <zleap> i got an email about 10 mins ago 19:39 with a time stamp of 18:39
[19:48] <zleap> explains why i had to scroll back to find it
[19:48] <marxjohnson> like you set the others as /, /home, and so forth
[19:49] <ssk_the_gr8> now that is like gibberish to me
[19:49] <marxjohnson> sorry
[19:49] <ssk_the_gr8> marxjohnson: :D
[19:49] <ssk_the_gr8> sorry
[19:49] <marxjohnson> when you create a partition, you set its mount point
[19:49] <marxjohnson> the main one is /, which is the root of the file system
[19:49] <ssk_the_gr8> can i do it graphically using ubuntu?
[19:49] <ssk_the_gr8> k
[19:49] <marxjohnson> yeah
[19:49] <marxjohnson> it's part of the installer
[19:50] <brobostigon> onthe live cd*
[19:50] <zleap> can you do that with the systemrescuecd ?
[19:50] <marxjohnson> in fact, I think the recommended partitioning scheme will create a boot partition for you?
[19:50] <marxjohnson> can anyone confirm that? it's been a while
[19:50] <jacobw> no, it doesn't
[19:50] <ssk_the_gr8> so ... what do i do?
[19:50] <marxjohnson> no, OK so you have to use "advanced partitioning" which gives you the graphical partitioner
[19:50] <zleap> it just resizes the main partition by default and creares a dual boot i think
[19:51] <ssk_the_gr8> zleap: yeah i think so too
[19:51] <zleap> `i was only installing earlier didn;t really tajke much notice just hit advanced
[19:51] <marxjohnson> then you'd resize your Windows partition (defrag first), create a little boot partition, a ~40GB root partition and the rest as another parition
[19:52] <marxjohnson> then you set the boot partition's mount point to /boot, the root partition's mount point to /, and the other partition's mount point to /home
[19:52] <ssk_the_gr8> how do i set a mount point... sorry i'm new to all of this?
[19:53] <marxjohnson> when you create the parition, it should have an option for you to enter the mount point
[19:53] <zleap> you do it as part of the advanced options,
[19:53] <jacobw> the advanced paritioning tool lets you create new paritions and resize existing paritions
[19:53] <ssk_the_gr8> k
[19:53] <jacobw> and set mount points for the new paritions you've created
[19:53] <zleap> ssk_the_gr8, where are you based maybe there is a local user group that can help
[19:53] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: http://timetobleed.com/extending-ltrace-to-make-your-rubypythonperlphp-apps-faster/
[19:53] <ssk_the_gr8> i cant shrink my windows partation beyond 150 gb... :(
[19:53] <zleap> how big is the whole hdd
[19:53] <ssk_the_gr8> 320gb
[19:54] <ssk_the_gr8> using the windows disk manager
[19:54] <jacobw> plenty of space, windows balloons over time
[19:54] <zleap> yeah my dads laptop updates daily
[19:54] <ssk_the_gr8> so 150 for windows
[19:54] <ssk_the_gr8> and rest for ubuntu
[19:54] <ssk_the_gr8> k?
[19:55] <marxjohnson> yep
[19:55] <ssk_the_gr8> with the remaining 120 gb
[19:55] <ssk_the_gr8> 40 as root partation
[19:55] <ssk_the_gr8> a small 100 mb boot
[19:55] <ssk_the_gr8> and remaining 80 as another partation
[19:55] <ssk_the_gr8> am i correct?
[19:56] <jacobw> remaining 120gb?
[19:56] <zleap> what about swap
[19:56] <marxjohnson> actually, my /boot is 200MB, just to be safe, but I use less than half of it
[19:56] <marxjohnson> swap! i forgot that
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: interesting
[19:56] <ali1234> in fact, i don't even need that stuff
[19:56] <ssk_the_gr8> 4gb ram.. so swap should be.. 8 gb?
[19:56] <jacobw> you need a /boot /home swap and / parition
[19:56] <zleap> think so
[19:56] <marxjohnson> no, 2GB
[19:56] <ssk_the_gr8> k
[19:56] <ali1234> because i don't want to trace calls into flashplugin.so, but calls made *by* it, which are compile time linked
[19:56] <marxjohnson> "double the RAM" is only useful up to a certain point
[19:57] <zleap> i still read from the old rule book swap - 2x ram size
[19:57] <ali1234> but hopefully that will get me past the dlopen call and into the so where ltrace will work as normal
[19:57] <marxjohnson> if you've got 4GB+ of RAM and are using over 2GB of swap, you've got bigger problems :p
[19:57] <zleap> marxjohnson, is there any harm in it being double the ram size
[19:57] <marxjohnson> dont think so
[19:57] <zleap> ok
[19:57] <ali1234> zleap: there can be if you get a runaway program
[19:57] <ssk_the_gr8> so ... what should the swap size be?
[19:57] <ssk_the_gr8> guys....?
[19:58] <zleap> ok
[19:58] <marxjohnson> go for 2GB
[19:58] <ali1234> if you have 16GB of swap and some program tries to allocate it it will lock up the machine for like 30 minutes
[19:58] <ali1234> without all the swap it would just crash
[19:58] <zleap> ah
[19:58] <ssk_the_gr8> is 2gb final .... :D
[19:58] <ssk_the_gr8> zleap: ?
[19:59] <ssk_the_gr8> ali1234: ?
[19:59] <zleap> go for that,  as i said i was reading from an old rule book
[19:59] <ali1234> i have 4GB ram and 32GB swap
[19:59] <ali1234> but i do crazy stuff all day
[20:00] <ssk_the_gr8> 40 root partation,... is where i install ubuntu right?
[20:00] <zleap>  i foiund the only time my system used swap was dvd playback
[20:00] <zleap> but both my systems have 1gb ram
[20:00] <ali1234> i hit swap every day
[20:01] <ali1234> minecraft will happily eat 2GB of ram on it's own
[20:01] <ali1234> as will firefox
[20:01] <marxjohnson> ssk_the_gr8: dont worry about where you "install ubuntu", you're installing it on all the paritions
[20:01] <ssk_the_gr8> lol.. i'm confused now
[20:01] <marxjohnson> ok, I'll try and explain
[20:03] <marxjohnson> The root of the filesystem is /. You can have the whole filesystem on a single partition, or many partitions, but you need a "root partition" mounted on /. You can then create additional partitions mounted at different points (such as /home /boot /var) to better manage space or use different filesystems, like we're doing here. If you just use one parition, these folders still exist, but they'll all be on the root partition
[20:03] <marxjohnson> So you're installing ubuntu on the filesystem, which may be one or more paritions
[20:04] <jacobw> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Partition/
[20:04] <zleap> hi oly
[20:04] <ssk_the_gr8> k. i kinda get it
[20:05] <zleap> jacobw, would the ubuntu-manual link help
[20:05] <ssk_the_gr8> so 100 mb boot, 2 gb swap, 40 gb root,  remaining is home right?
[20:05] <marxjohnson> yep
[20:05] <jacobw> i've already looked, it doesn't seem to have much to say on the issue of paritioning
[20:05] <zleap> ok
[20:05] <jacobw> sounds good ssk_the_gr8
[20:06] <zleap> well it may be useful anyway generally for use http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[20:06] <ssk_the_gr8> k... i'm putting ubuntu on download
[20:06] <zleap> ok
[20:06] <ssk_the_gr8> let's see...
[20:06] <ssk_the_gr8> it'll finish in like an hour
[20:06] <jacobw> that isn't what i was looking at.. i was looking at the 'offical documentation'
[20:06] <zleap> ok
[20:06] <ssk_the_gr8> then i 'll do as we've decided......
[20:07] <marxjohnson> cool, best of british to you!
[20:07] <ssk_the_gr8> and come back to this channel when i'm finished :D
[20:07] <marxjohnson> oh, I assume you've backed up all your data?
[20:07] <ssk_the_gr8> i hope i don't lose all my data and windows partation
[20:07] <jacobw> hope to see you soon :)
[20:08] <ssk_the_gr8> yeah i have .. the important stuff.. but not all
[20:08] <marxjohnson> dont even think about partitioning for the first time without a good backup
[20:08] <oly> hi :)
[20:08] <marxjohnson> I did, and regretted it
[20:08] <jacobw> real men don't use backups, they sync all their files with ubuntu one :p
[20:09] <zleap> marxjohnson, i did that once  created 10mb for slackware on a 250mb disk,  ended up formatting the windows 3.1 bit
[20:10] <zleap> this was 15 years ago, or there abouts
[20:10] <marxjohnson> I manage to toast my parent's windows partition trying to install my first distro (gentoo, dont ask why)
[20:10] <jacobw> ha, gentoo :(
[20:10] <zleap> i was thinking gentoo and beginners does not really go together
[20:11] <marxjohnson> No, no it doesnt
[20:11] <Jibadeeha> i remember being fanatical about LFS ... all those hours of my life wasted
[20:11] <marxjohnson> they dont*
[20:11] <zleap> i started with slackware
[20:11] <ssk_the_gr8> thanx for the help guys.
[20:11] <ssk_the_gr8> bye
[20:11] <marxjohnson> np
[20:11] <zleap> ssk_the_gr8, np
[20:11] <jacobw> think of all those processors running at 100%, hug a tree, use debian :)
[20:12] <Jibadeeha> i remember my first Linux distro was slackware, bought it with a book .. was so exciting back then
[20:12] <jacobw> i personally can't see the point of source based distros
[20:12] <zleap> my first one came with a magazine had to rawrite stuff to floppy to make the disks to install
[20:12] <zleap> came on cd but rawrite just copied stuff to floppy,
[20:12] <Jibadeeha> jacobw, i can't now, but at the time i was so smug about it
[20:12] <jacobw> i think debian was my first distro :s
[20:12] <Jibadeeha> zleap, lol i remember rawrite stuff now you mention it
[20:13]  * jacobw <3 debian
[20:13] <zleap> great till you run out of floppies and need to format em, in dos and create a new set
[20:13] <zleap> b1, b2, b3, for base,  x1 etc for xwindows
[20:13] <DJones> zleap: Jibadeeha I'm the same, I started with slackware which was a great learning experience
[20:14] <zleap> i want to have a go at LFS,  but as part of a lug meet on a decent specf system
[20:14] <marxjohnson> I considered doing LFS in a VM once, but could never be bothered
[20:14] <Jibadeeha> DJones, yeah i don't regret one bit of it .. i remember being desperate to get X up and running but it wouldn't work properly with my cirrus logic video card lol
[20:15] <jacobw> i just see these things as reinventing the wheel
[20:15] <marxjohnson> I wouldn't do LFS to actually use, just to learn from
[20:15] <zleap> it took ages before i had someting that actually supported cd rom drives
[20:15] <Jibadeeha> zleap, LFS is a great learning experience but you'll need a lot of time on your hands
[20:15] <zleap> yeah i know
[20:16] <zleap> but it would be a fun project
[20:16] <zleap> what wouod be good to make a internet kiosk
[20:16] <zleap> as in boot up to x and a browser
[20:16] <ali1234> meego
[20:17] <zleap> ok
[20:17] <zleap> is that a distribution
[20:17] <ali1234> yes
[20:18] <marxjohnson> zleap: http://kiosk.mozdev.org/ appears to have some good info
[20:18]  * popey tickles marxjohnson 
[20:18] <zleap> cool, helping to set up an internet cafe type thing, so need a few computers as internet terminals mostly have about 256 mb ram
[20:18] <marxjohnson> we discussed this popey, not in public
[20:18] <popey> :)
[20:19] <popey> Only on tuesdays
[20:19] <marxjohnson> quite
[20:19] <bigcalm> popey: I'm about to order: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: *CLICK* *CLICK*
[20:20] <bigcalm> :D
[20:20]  * marxjohnson loves his clicky keyboard
[20:20] <ali1234> mozilla kiosk mode sucks
[20:20] <ali1234> what you need is a QML UX with webkit
[20:21]  * MartijnVdS has a Dell SK-3502 -- with smart card reader
[20:21] <ali1234> or just use the existing netbook UX
[20:21] <ali1234> doesn't have good touchscreen support though
[20:22] <zleap> just want a browser really
[20:22] <ali1234> well yeah that's pretty much all you get on meego
[20:22] <zleap> ok looking at meego now
[20:22] <ali1234> browser, media player, social networks
[20:22] <ali1234> "app store" coming soon
[20:23] <zleap> cool
[20:23] <marxjohnson> or ChromiumOS?
[20:23] <zleap> looking at pessulus in the synaptic list to lock down gnome
[20:23] <zleap> may also be useful for other computers
[20:23] <jacobw> kde did a lot of work on kiosk modes a while back
[20:24] <marxjohnson> Hmm not sure ChromiumOS is actually available now that I look, other than source
[20:24] <Myrtti> hohum
[20:24] <ali1234> zleap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9yBigBW6c
[20:24]  * MartijnVdS loves the new "screen off" animation on his Nexus One
[20:24] <zleap> i take it it supports flash etc
[20:25] <DJones> Evening Myrtti, hope your day has gone better than it started, you didn't sound happy this morning
[20:25] <ali1234> i'm running that on my ideapad (thanks intel and nokia) right now
[20:25] <zleap>  cool
[20:25] <zleap> well these will be normal pc desktop
[20:25] <ali1234> it needs SSSE4, so core 2 or better
[20:25] <ali1234> and it needs accelerated graphics other than nvidia
[20:26] <zleap> k
[20:26] <Myrtti> DJones: in theory the situation can only get better, but since *I* still have my health left, I suppose things could be worse too.
[20:26] <zleap> hmm
[20:26] <zleap> in thwt
[20:26] <zleap> that casse
[20:26] <ali1234> basically it needs intel hardware
[20:26] <bigcalm> Oh my good god
[20:26] <jacobw> brb
[20:26] <zleap> it may end up beibng nornal ubuntu + lockdown
[20:26] <bigcalm> Shipping on the keyboard is $49.50
[20:26] <Myrtti> anyway...
[20:26] <ali1234> i told you i will sell you a model m :)
[20:27] <ali1234> for just half what those guys want :)
[20:27] <bigcalm> Pendulum: would you like to send me a package? ;)
[20:27] <DJones> Myrtti: As long as you've got your health, things can only get better, just hope that whatever is bothering you will be eased over time
[20:27] <Pendulum> bigcalm: is it legal?
[20:28] <bigcalm> Pendulum: it's a keyboard
[20:28] <zleap> matchbox may work well
[20:28]  * Pendulum hugs Myrtti 
[20:28] <Pendulum> bigcalm: I can do that
[20:28] <bigcalm> Pendulum: http://store.yahoo.com/pckeyboards/en104bl.html
[20:28] <bigcalm> Yay :)
[20:29] <bigcalm> If it works out sensible to do so that is
[20:29] <Myrtti> well, my mother has been diagnosed with cancer that can only be stopped, not healed, with metastases elsewhere. We had the first doctors appointment today and it's been a long, long day, and a long long time waiting for today.
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: :(
[20:29] <Myrtti> and it's going to be a long long time, and I don't think it's going to ease, just turn into something else.
[20:30] <Myrtti> but - c'est la vie
[20:30] <Myrtti> we all have to go sometime
[20:31] <DJones> Myrtti: Sorry to hear that, I wish there was something I could say or do that would help, but my thoughts will be with you
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: knowing that doesn't make it easier on anyone though :|
[20:33] <Myrtti> but yeah, minecraft is great, it's kept me sane the past 8 weeks
[20:34] <DJones> :)
[20:34] <cbx33> on a budget of about £500, what laptop would someone recommend that works well with ubuntu
[20:34] <cbx33> ideally a smaller screen like 13inch
[20:34] <cbx33> or even 11
[20:35] <Pendulum> Myrtti: it's always the little things that are the most useful. *hugs* I'm around if you ever need anyone to talk to
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> cbx33: anything with intel chips
[20:35] <cbx33> the i3?
[20:35] <cbx33> i have an ibm x41 at the moment and I loooove it!
[20:35] <ali1234> cbx33: pinetrail
[20:35] <cbx33> but it's just tooo slow now
[20:36]  * DJones wonders why he's in pain and then realises he's 3 hours overdue for painkillers & anti-inflam's
[20:36] <Pendulum> DJones: thank you for saying that. reminded me that I ignored my alarm 90 minutes ago to remind me of same
[20:37] <DJones> Ah well, codiene, paracetamol, diclafenic & black sheep ale will solve that
[20:37] <Pendulum> heh
[20:37] <DJones> Pendulum: Ah well, there's a good reason for saying it
[20:38] <DJones> Pendulum: ok, 90 minutes, no more IRC until you've taken medication
[20:38] <Pendulum> just took it
[20:39] <Pendulum> marinol and hydrocodone w/ paracetamol for me :)
[20:40] <DJones> Hadn't heard of marinol, but having googled, I can guess the benefits
[20:40] <Pendulum> it's only available in the US
[20:41] <Pendulum> if I were in the UK, I'd probably be fighting to get them to give me Sativex instead
[20:41] <Pendulum> really, I'd rather move to Amsterdam or California where I can get better pain relief as needed ;-)
[20:42] <DJones> Heh
[20:43] <Pendulum> wanna know what's worse? I didn't ask, my doctor suggested
[20:44] <DJones> I hate taking medication, but needs must when necessary
[20:46] <czajkowski> daubers: you were in reading today
[20:46] <czajkowski> :(
[20:46] <czajkowski> missed you by 6 mins
[20:47] <Pendulum> DJones: I've switched to thinking of medication as a tool rather than a necessary evil. It's what keeps me coherent :)
[20:47] <DJones> Pendulum: Thats very true
[20:54] <cbx33> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCbKP-zyb0M - my first arduino playtime :)
[21:00] <Azelphur> I'mma try the bitcoin thing, it looks interesting :D
[21:02] <cbx33> oh btw - if anyone likes/uses git here
[21:02] <cbx33> https://github.com/cbx33/gitt
[21:02] <Azelphur> wow, you can actually direct convert bitcoin to USB, awesome :D
[21:02] <cbx33> I'm writing a new git book :)
[21:02] <Azelphur> cbx33: cool :D
[21:03] <cbx33> writing it in LaTeX - but don't let that put anyone off - really easy to read it in it's current format
[21:03] <cbx33> and I'm new to LaTeX too
[21:03] <cbx33> oh darn I need a README
[21:06] <zleap> does pidgn support webcams
[21:07] <ali1234> yes
[21:07] <zleap> cool cos i can't get amsn to work properly well something to do with protocol changes
[21:07] <ali1234> cbx33: i wrote a git guide: http://htc-linux.org/wiki/index.php?title=AdvancedGitGuide
[21:08] <ali1234> it's based on how i like to use git for kernel hacking
[21:08]  * bigcalm pokes mc.net and sighs :(
[21:08] <cbx33> sweet
[21:08] <cbx33> looks good ali1234
[21:08] <ali1234> feel free to use anything from it
[21:09] <zleap> ok installing pidgin now
[21:09] <ali1234> cbx33: can't say it's "right" but it works for me, and i got patches accepted in the kernel using the described methods :)
[21:10] <cbx33> sweet
[21:10] <cbx33> I may very well take some notes from there
[21:10] <ali1234> also highly recommend the video with greg kh if you're at all interested in kernel development
[21:11] <zleap> what is the difference btween msn and windows live
[21:11] <ali1234> zleap: nothing
[21:11] <ali1234> just rebranding
[21:11] <zleap> ok so it should work with both
[21:11] <DJones> zleap: not a thing
[21:11] <ali1234> if they changed the protocol all the clients will break
[21:11] <ali1234> for a time
[21:12] <zleap> OK
[21:12] <ali1234> pidgin usually updates quite quickly
[21:12] <MartijnVdS> \o/ xmpp
[21:16] <Baikonur> what newspaper do old money read
[21:17] <ali1234> i don't know, what newspaper do old money read?
[21:17]  * brobostigon reads private eye.
[21:17] <Baikonur> no, it was a genuine question and not a joke or anything :)
[21:18] <ali1234> assuming that wasn't the set up for a joke, i would say the times
[21:18] <brobostigon> iread private eye an the independent.
[21:18] <Baikonur> is private eye the one that Ian Hislop is the editor of
[21:19] <ali1234> yes
[21:20] <brobostigon> :)
[21:22] <Baikonur> mm, the times is a news corporation paper
[21:22] <ali1234> hmm yeah i think it got sold to them recently and lost of lot of reputation because of it
[21:23] <ali1234> or like 30 years ago lol
[21:23] <Baikonur> recently being 1980
[21:23] <Baikonur> 81, rather
[21:24] <ali1234> still that's relatively recent considering it's over 200 years old
[21:24] <Baikonur> the independet didn't even exist yet, in 1981
[21:24] <Baikonur> *independent
[21:25] <Baikonur> it was sold last year to two russian brothers
[21:26] <Baikonur> the paid £1 for it
[21:26] <Baikonur> they
[21:49] <brobostigon> do facebook notifications in android require background data tobe turned on?
[22:00] <daubers> czajkowski: No I wasn't....
[22:01] <ali1234> hmm why doesn't LD_PRELOAD work with 32 bit exes and libs on 64 bit?
[22:03] <czajkowski> daubers: ahh ok latitude showed you were
[22:04] <daubers> czajkowski: Ah.... I live in Reading...so it was probably showing me at home/onthe way home
[22:06] <ging> how come everyone else in here seems to have each other on latitude?
[22:07]  * daubers ponders how often popeyes minecraft server regenerates the map
[22:08] <bigcalm> daubers: see the topic in the channel
[22:08]  * bigcalm slithers off to spend time with his other half
[22:20] <czajkowski> daubers: :(
[22:27] <ali1234> ok got it. so...... flashplugin doesn't use XDisplayWidth()
[22:31] <Azelphur> sigh, I really need to get off the intel stock cooler
[22:32] <Azelphur> if I do anything cpu intensive I can go up to 94C
[22:32] <Cepheus> i generally need a new cooling system
[22:33] <Azelphur> yea, I wanna switch to water
[22:33] <Cepheus> one 80mm fan + a GTX 460 means things can get hot
[22:33] <Cepheus> should probably get a bigger case and some larger fans
[22:34] <ali1234> does not use XWidthOfScreen either
[22:36] <gord> starting to think about writing a colour filter for mplayer or xbmc or something that reverses the orange-teal of modern movies..
[22:37]  * daubers goes to bed
[22:37] <gord> trying to watch iron man 2 and the orange-teal is making everyone look like carrot people
[22:45] <cbx33> anyone play with jquery here?
[22:47] <ali1234> heh, it uses XGetWindowAttributes
[22:50] <ali1234> ... but not to determine the fullscreen window size
[22:59] <Cepheus> ali1234: perhaps it uses NETWM's _NET_DESKTOP_GEOMETRY?
[23:00] <ali1234> how do i get that?
[23:00] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:03] <ali1234> Cepheus: is that libxt?
[23:07] <ali1234> it might be using XGetWindowProperty......
[23:07] <ali1234> how many different ways can there be to get the screen size :/
[23:07] <KLight2003> Evening all
[23:07] <Cepheus> ali1234: it's EWMH
[23:11] <ali1234> well it definitely uses XGetWindowProperty
[23:13] <Cepheus> ali1234: Just a suggestion anyway. And it looks like it doesn't.
[23:15] <ali1234> ok, when i toggle fullscreen it calls XGetWindowProperty
[23:15] <ali1234> every time. so this looks promising
[23:16] <ali1234> so i guess now i just need to detect when it asks for width or height property
[23:18] <Cepheus> watcha hackinh up?
[23:18] <ali1234> flash player
[23:21] <ali1234> my guess is it asks for the geometry of the root window instead of the geometry of the "fullscreen" window it has been given (which is not actually fullscreen if you are running twinview)
[23:22] <ali1234> when you go fullscreen it calls XGetWIndowProperly twice every time
[23:27] <Azelphur> Anyone know a utility that's compatible with pulseaudio and can capture from 2 microphones at the same time?
[23:27] <Azelphur> maybe popey since you do podcasts
[23:35] <ali1234> Azelphur: that's the same problem as recording mic and desktop sounds at the same time
[23:35] <Azelphur> yea, I just solved it
[23:35] <Azelphur> :D
[23:35] <ali1234> and the way you do that is record from the monitor source on the output sink
[23:35] <Azelphur> indeed, and the mic one at the same time
[23:35] <Azelphur> I found a screencasting tool that can do it
[23:37] <ali1234> Azelphur: btw, do you have this youtube fullscreen problem?
[23:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: the one where it half spans dual screen?
[23:37] <ali1234> yeah
[23:37] <Azelphur> yea, I do
[23:37] <ali1234> i think i nearly have a workaround for it
[23:37] <Azelphur> nice :D
[23:47] <ali1234> hmm that's new... fullscreen mode is no longer fullscreen
[23:48] <ali1234> ah i see, it goes to fullscreen size of whatever monitor it was running on when you clicked fullscreen... but always on the primary
[23:49] <ali1234> so if second monitor is smaller, the fullscreen window won't fill the primary