[00:00] <lordjj> hm... do you remember a guy saying GIMP is not good?
[00:00] <Armageddon> that was you ?
[00:00] <lordjj> Hehe
[00:00] <lordjj> yep
[00:00] <Armageddon> do you remember someone answering you saying you should try gimpshop ?
[00:00] <Armageddon> that was me ;)
[00:00] <lordjj> I still hate it man. I installed Photoshop CS2 through wine
[00:01] <Armageddon> lordjj, GIMP brought a lot more than an application to the GNU/Linux Community
[00:01] <lordjj> what's gimpshop? An alteration?
[00:01] <Armageddon> lordjj, no, it's a hack mode for GIMP
[00:01] <Armageddon> lordjj, to make it "feel" closer to Photoshop
[00:01] <lordjj> hm
[00:01] <Armageddon> lordjj, you don't know how powerful GIMP is
[00:01] <Armageddon> lordjj, you don't know the half of it
[00:02] <Armageddon> lordjj, do you see most applications you are seeing now ?
[00:02] <Armageddon> including Gnome stuff
[00:02] <Armageddon> those are written using the GTK+ library
[00:02] <Armageddon> !GTK
[00:02] <Armageddon> ;)
[00:02] <Armageddon> see how powerful it is ?
[00:03] <lordjj> Its just the interface that bugged me
[00:03] <Armageddon> you gotta be open for change
[00:03] <Armageddon> change is most of the time good
[00:03] <lordjj> I was accustomed to using Photoshop for years
[00:03] <Armageddon> most probably why
[00:03] <Armageddon> lordjj, take your time using GIMP and you'll see its power
[00:03] <Armageddon> there's an alternative for EVERYTHING
[00:04] <Armageddon> oh btw, there is one more thing you should also know
[00:04] <lordjj> even Worms :P
[00:04] <Armageddon> not all of us in here use Ubuntu
[00:04] <lordjj> Warmux
[00:04] <lordjj> other distros?
[00:04] <Armageddon> that's why I asked you the output of apt
[00:04] <Armageddon> most of us use other distros yes
[00:05] <lordjj> like what?
[00:05] <Armageddon> but we still support Ubuntu because it is the one that got us into this new wonderful world
[00:05] <Armageddon> well depends on who
[00:05] <Armageddon> don't take youssefchaker as an example, he doesn't even use GNU/Linux most probably
[00:06] <Armageddon> shatir bas ynazir 3ammak youssefchaker
[00:06] <lordjj> ...inside jokes, I see :P
[00:06] <Armageddon> lol
[00:06] <Armageddon> lordjj, you gotta ask who to tell you which distro
[00:06] <lordjj> let's say you
[00:06] <Armageddon> me, ArchLinux
[00:06] <Armageddon> rapacity, as well
[00:06] <Armageddon> ghantoos, debian
[00:07] <Armageddon> compengi turned from gentoo to Ubuntu recently
[00:07] <Armageddon> I don't know if he is still on Ubuntu or not
[00:07] <Armageddon> and youssefchaker MAC OS X
[00:07] <Armageddon> along side Ubuntu I guess :/
[00:07] <Armageddon> I'm not sure
[00:07] <lordjj> Is ubuntu the only one with a simple GUI?
[00:07] <Armageddon> you gotta ask him
[00:08] <Armageddon> listen
[00:08] <Armageddon> GUI has nothing to do with the distro
[00:08] <Armageddon> Gnome is for all distros including BSD
[00:08] <Armageddon> so is KDE, Xfce, Lxde, etc...
[00:08] <Armageddon> so are Desktop Managers
[00:09] <Armageddon> Ubuntu is probably the most user friendly and the easiest to install out of the box
[00:09] <Armageddon> the difference between distributions is the "flavor" if you want
[00:09] <Armageddon> GNU/Linux is a car
[00:09] <Armageddon> Distros are the brands
[00:09] <Armageddon> some people prefer honda over nissan
[00:10] <Armageddon> others prefer I don't know KIA
[00:10] <Armageddon> all of them have their cons and pros
[00:10] <Armageddon> but they all work amazingly
[00:10] <lordjj> what is the main element that is changed?
[00:10] <lordjj> Obviously the kernel is the same right?
[00:10] <lordjj> And the commands
[00:10] <Armageddon> well, not anymore
[00:10] <Armageddon> the commands are the same yes
[00:10] <Armageddon> but not all of them
[00:11] <Armageddon> because some are applications installed seperately
[00:11] <Armageddon> but yes if you install them they will be the same and work the same
[00:11] <Armageddon> well let me give you a small difference between Ubuntu and it's father Debian
[00:11] <Armageddon> Ubuntu as you know is debian based
[00:11] <Armageddon> right ?
[00:11] <lordjj> Yes that I've heard
[00:12] <Armageddon> okay well when you install Ubuntu you get GUI, you don't choose it
[00:12] <Armageddon> you get a lot of applications as well
[00:12] <Armageddon> with debian on the other hand, you most probably won't get anything, you'll have to install GUI yourself
[00:12] <Armageddon> that is not fully accurate because there is an option during the installation that allows you to choose if you want to install the GUI or not
[00:12] <lordjj> Aha.
[00:13] <lordjj> Whatabout stuff like drivers?
[00:13] <Armageddon> well, there are 2 types of "drivers" if you want
[00:13] <Armageddon> there are the ones built into the kernel and there are modules which are run on startup
[00:13] <Armageddon> because both Ubuntu and Debian compile their own kernels and send you the binary packages
[00:14] <Armageddon> they try as much as possible to include all architectures in the kernel
[00:14] <Armageddon> so most probably your hardware will work, but not always, if it doesn't you'll install a module and run it, if you don't want that you'll have to compile the kernel by yourself
[00:14] <Armageddon> by Ubuntu standards that is not recommended
[00:15] <lordjj> Btw, have you noticed that battery lasts less on Linux than on Windows?
[00:15] <Armageddon> no it doesn't
[00:15] <Armageddon> depends on how much you are taking out of the computer
[00:15] <lordjj> Well on my laptop it's like that
[00:16] <lordjj> On Windows generally last 4 hours
[00:16] <lordjj> Ubuntu 2
[00:16] <Armageddon> you should probably install lm-sensors and try to minimize your CPU performance
[00:16] <lordjj> I tried installing Jupiter
[00:16] <lordjj> but it caused start-up problems
[00:16] <Armageddon> no wait
[00:16] <lordjj> so I removed it
[00:16] <Armageddon> damn I forgot the name
[00:17] <Armageddon> it's a CPU Frequency Scaling Monitor
[00:17] <Armageddon> I have no idea what's the name of the package
[00:17] <lordjj> It corrupted my first Wubi install, since I still didn't know about alt+prntscrn+REISUB
[00:17] <Armageddon> cpufrequtils
[00:17] <Armageddon> that's the name of the package
[00:17] <lordjj> so the pc froze at startup; I forced a turnoff & Wubi got corrupted
[00:18] <Armageddon> wubi ?
[00:18] <Armageddon> :/
[00:18] <lordjj> ok, does it work like jupiter?
[00:18] <Armageddon> I don't know what jupiter is, I never tried it
[00:18] <lordjj> Yeah I installed normal installation after that
[00:18] <Armageddon> wait
[00:18] <Armageddon> what do you mean by wubi ?
[00:18] <lordjj> You know "Wubi"; installing Ubuntu through Windows
[00:18] <Armageddon> you installed it inside winblows ?
[00:18] <lordjj> as if its an application
[00:19] <lordjj> the first time ye
[00:19] <lordjj> Then corrupted it
[00:19] <lordjj> Then installed normally
[00:19] <youssefchaker> stepped out, yeah im on Mac OS X and run Ubuntu on my desktop :)
[00:19] <youssefchaker> ubuntu is for downloading torrents
[00:19] <youssefchaker> mac for web dev
[00:19] <Armageddon> lordjj, see you got your answer
[00:19] <Armageddon> lol
[00:20] <lordjj> heh
[00:20] <Armageddon> youssefchaker, you download torrents ? shame on you
[00:20] <Armageddon> shame shame
[00:20] <Armageddon> transmission right ? youssefchaker ? :p
[00:21] <lordjj> Btw, I read on forums that underclocking CPUs can be harmful. Is that what cpufrequtils does?
[00:21] <Armageddon> you mean overclocking
[00:21] <lordjj> actually lemme check the right word
[00:22] <lordjj> no I don't mean overclocking
[00:22] <Armageddon> well what it does is lower the CPU frequency i.e. performance
[00:22] <youssefchaker> yes Armageddon
[00:22] <Armageddon> winblows does the same when you choose powersaver or whatever
[00:23] <lordjj> Aha, so you choose the mode?
[00:23] <youssefchaker> btw, off topic, but today i am officially jobless
[00:23] <lordjj> Or a whole list of options?
[00:23] <youssefchaker> WOOOHOOO
[00:23] <lordjj> o_o ...
[00:24] <Armageddon> youssefchaker, why ? :/
[00:24] <youssefchaker> i quit my job
[00:24] <Armageddon> youssefchaker, wait wait why ?
[00:24] <Armageddon> why the hell ?
[00:24] <Armageddon> :/
[00:24] <youssefchaker> im co-founding a startup
[00:24] <Armageddon> you just quit !
[00:24] <youssefchaker> http://jogabo.com
[00:24] <youssefchaker> i quit a month ago
[00:25] <youssefchaker> but today was my last day
[00:25] <Armageddon> what why ? :o
[00:25] <Armageddon> what are you gonna do ?
[00:25] <Armageddon> what are you gonna do ?
[00:25] <youssefchaker> im going to be the 'CTO' of my own company :D
[00:25] <Armageddon> youssefchaker, cool, what kind of company ?
[00:26] <Armageddon> lordjj, you chose the mode for each CPU
[00:26] <youssefchaker> http://jogabo.com is a site for football (soccer) amateur players
[00:26] <Armageddon> that's the company ?
[00:26] <youssefchaker> we will help them create/organize/manage games and tournaments, etc
[00:26] <Armageddon> teaching football ?
[00:27] <youssefchaker> not teaching!
[00:27] <youssefchaker> making people's life easier
[00:27] <Armageddon> looking for jobless people who need jobs ?
[00:27] <youssefchaker> hehehe
[00:27] <youssefchaker> not yet
[00:27] <youssefchaker> but maybe later
[00:28] <youssefchaker> and if 6 or 12 months from now you have good experience in web development or IT or are willing to learn
[00:28] <youssefchaker> why not
[00:28] <Armageddon> fine I'm in !
[00:30] <lordjj> ok, just btw, underclocking is a word, I didn't make it up "By underclocking (& under-voltage) you end up with a better CPU but at a higher price.
[00:30] <lordjj> The atom CPU is not great it is cheap low power so thermal design is easy."
[00:30] <lordjj> -from the forums
[00:31] <Armageddon> do you even know what they are talking about ? :p
[00:31] <lordjj> I think it means reducing performance :P
[00:31] <Armageddon> read it again !
[00:31] <Armageddon> it means reducing performance by the company
[00:32] <lordjj> Btw, I've been meaning to ask about this for some time:
[00:32] <Armageddon> go for it
[00:32] <lordjj> I have an old antique desktop
[00:32] <lordjj> 128mb RAM
[00:32] <lordjj> 1.8 GHz Pentium4 CPU
[00:33] <youssefchaker> riz2allah
[00:33] <lordjj> I heard Ubuntu can work on 32Mb RAM
[00:33] <Armageddon> lordjj, theoretically
[00:33] <Armageddon> yes
[00:33] <lordjj> but the problem is, the demo won't run on less than 256 mb
[00:33] <Armageddon> what demo ?
[00:33] <Armageddon> oh you mean the live CD ? :p
[00:33] <lordjj> the LIve CD demo
[00:34] <Armageddon> hmm
[00:34] <lordjj> it just crashes
[00:34] <Armageddon> well you gotta try something hmm less demanding
[00:34] <lordjj> at times saying not enough memory
[00:34] <Armageddon> try Xubuntu or even Lubuntu
[00:34] <lordjj> Well I want something out of the box
[00:34] <lordjj> especially that there's not internet on that PC
[00:35] <Armageddon> well 1st it will have internet once you try Xubuntu or Lubuntu
[00:35] <Armageddon> and all Ubuntu versions are out of the box :) but none will work properly without internet connection
[00:35] <youssefchaker> a quick question lordjj what are you going to use that computer for?
[00:35] <lordjj> heh, eventually for internet :P
[00:35] <Armageddon> actually If I'm not mistaken none of the distros will work without internet
[00:36] <Armageddon> I mean for updates and stuff
[00:36] <lordjj> Are the updates that necessary?
[00:36] <Armageddon> and you can't even continue ArchLinux' installation without internet
[00:36] <youssefchaker> Armageddon: he means he needs to be able to install it first without internet
[00:36] <Armageddon> you'll end up in a useless shell
[00:36] <youssefchaker> then when it's ready he'll configure the internet
[00:36] <Armageddon> youssefchaker, yea that's what I said
[00:36] <youssefchaker> right lordjj?
[00:36] <Armageddon> 19:35 < Armageddon> and all Ubuntu versions are out of the box :) but none will work properly without internet connection
[00:36] <lordjj> yeah
[00:37] <lordjj> well Ubuntu did...
[00:37] <Armageddon> lordjj, no it didn't
[00:37] <lordjj> What do u mean?
[00:37] <Armageddon> you installed the OS fine, got into the GUI then you needed to update
[00:37] <lordjj> I installed it without a connection.
[00:37] <Armageddon> yes you can
[00:37] <Armageddon> less it says netinstall ! you can install it without internet connection
[00:38] <Armageddon> all Ubuntu versions work the same
[00:38] <Armageddon> the difference is the DE
[00:38] <Armageddon> !de | lordjj
[00:38] <Armageddon> lol
[00:38] <Armageddon> no not german you idiot
[00:38] <Armageddon> DE as in Desktop Enbironment
[00:38] <Armageddon> !DE
[00:38] <lordjj> ?
[00:38] <Armageddon> lordjj, I was talking to the bot :p
[00:38] <lordjj> ...
[00:39] <Armageddon> lordjj, so yes you can install them without internet connection
[00:39] <Armageddon> but unless you dont want to install applications and update you'll need an internet connection
[00:40] <lordjj> Well, I still don't see what the internet is for if I installed Ubuntu without internet and didn't get a connection for monthes, & when I did I never did the system updates it asked for
[00:40] <lordjj> Oh alright
[00:40] <lordjj> Well even then
[00:40] <lordjj> you can get packages
[00:40] <lordjj> like tar.gz
[00:41] <Armageddon> lordjj, not recommended by Ubuntu standards
[00:41] <Armageddon> lordjj, and you can still get them .deb ;)
[00:41] <lordjj> That too
[00:41] <lordjj> heh ok
[00:41] <lordjj> So for that old PC you recommend Xubuntu you said?
[00:41] <Armageddon> or Lubuntu
[00:42] <lordjj> ok, how's the installation? Through a CD?
[00:42] <lordjj> Just like normal Ubuntu?
[00:42] <Armageddon> yup
[00:43] <lordjj> Oh and I tried to make a 4GB usb into a portable bootable Ubuntu system once
[00:43] <lordjj> I couldn't get it to work
[00:43] <lordjj> it'd give me kernel not found
[00:43] <lordjj> There's the "Startup Disk Creator" in ubuntu
[00:44] <Armageddon> lordjj, never tried that
[00:44] <lordjj> I put the Ubuntu CD in the CD rom, and plugged the USB, the Startup DIsk Creator copied files onto it
[00:44] <lordjj> then when I boot on the USB I get the menu
[00:44] <lordjj> Try Ubuntu, Install, etc
[00:45] <lordjj> except I'd get Kernel not found or somethin
[00:45] <lordjj> Well anyway. Thanks. Goodnight guys.
[00:46] <Armageddon> night