[00:00] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: oh, ok. thanks.
[00:00] <ari-tczew> Ampelbein: is it fixed in newer releases? maverick, natty
[00:00] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: indeed it is. I'm unsure about setting fix released though as that will remove the bug from the standard view?
[00:02] <ari-tczew> Ampelbein: not yet. let's nominate for maverick and natty and leave a comment that maverick and natty are fixed.
[00:03] <Ampelbein> ari-tczew: I nominated for lucid as in maverick (and natty) the bug is fixed
[00:09] <ScottK> Ampelbein: I accepted the Lucid task and marked it fix released since it's fixed in Natty.
[00:10] <Ampelbein> ScottK: ok, thank you.
[00:32] <ScottK> Ampelbein: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
[00:33] <Ampelbein> ScottK: thank you ;-) finally have the time to get back to development a bit, was busy with RL stuff for about 2 years and am a bit rusty
[00:33] <ScottK> Ampelbein: No evidence of rust there.  I remember you from before.  Glad to see you back, your contributions were always good.
[00:34] <ari-tczew> ScottK: where did you set it as fixed?
[00:34] <ari-tczew> I see only triaged.
[00:34]  * ScottK checks.
[00:35] <ScottK> It's done now.
[00:36] <ari-tczew> Yep.
[04:38] <dylan-m> Hey, does anyone know if we're going to have a website specifically about Unity, for end users to look at? (Like what Gnome 3 has with gnome3.org)
[04:46] <ion> http://unity.ubuntu.com/
[04:48] <dylan-m> ion: Right now that one feels a little developer-heavy to me, though. Come to think of it, I just assumed it was meant to be. Err, have I been looking at it wrong? :)
[06:09] <ohsix> hyperair: you there?
[06:09] <hyperair> ohsix: yes i'm here.
[06:10] <ohsix> neat
[06:10] <ohsix> ok i was pluggin' around earlier, the laptop was really doing nothing and the hd had been asleep for 80% of the whole day, but it still overheated
[06:11] <ohsix> that prompted me to look at what the drive might be doing itself periodically, and you can enable/disable automatic offline tests
[06:11] <hyperair> i see.
[06:11] <hyperair> did that help?
[06:11] <ohsix> so the question, since you monitor your temps closely, can you do smartctl -o on on it, and see what yours does
[06:12] <ohsix> well, i turned it off; can't say much yet
[06:12] <hyperair> can i check whether it's enabled or disabled?
[06:12] <ohsix> i think so, lemme look
[06:12] <ohsix> some of the things are opaque though
[06:15] <ohsix> ok
[06:15] <ohsix> Offline data collection status: is zero with it off, 0x80 with it on; i don't see a specific query for it
[06:16] <ohsix> (thats near the top in the output of -a)
[06:16] <ohsix> the odd thing is the drive actually had extra airflow at the time but it still got very hot
[06:17] <hyperair> ah it's disabled.
[06:17] <hyperair> i just enabled it
[06:17] <hyperair> let's see the temperature then
[06:17] <ohsix> its supposed to do it every 4 power on hours apparently
[06:17] <ohsix> it might not do it right away
[06:18] <ohsix> i'm in for kicking my own ass  if this was it.
[06:18] <hyperair> lol
[06:18] <hyperair> well we'll see
[06:18] <hyperair> i'll wait 4 hours and check
[06:18] <ohsix> ok cool
[06:18] <hyperair> actually why don't you remind me in 4 hours? =p
[06:19] <ohsix> i dunno what "4 hours" might be, it's up to the drive
[06:19] <hyperair> heh
[06:19] <hyperair> it says 4 hours for mien
[06:19] <ohsix> if it gets crazy hot i'm sure you'll remember :D
[06:19] <hyperair> hmm
[06:19] <hyperair> =p
[06:20] <hyperair> what was that scttemp command you gave me the other day?
[06:20] <ohsix> well its 4 hours in Power_On_Hours terms, my drive has been on for longer than it says here so i'm assuming they only track it part of the time, the drive hadn't been spinning down at all since i installed it
[06:20] <ohsix> -l scttemp
[06:20] <ohsix> its in the output of -x too
[06:21] <hyperair> alright
[06:23] <ohsix> i'm thinking the drive has a coast mode where it really doesn't do anything but kick the drive around, instead of when, if allowed; spinning down the drive
[06:23] <ohsix> so power on hours would be awake awake & armature probably moving
[06:28]  * hyperair shrugs
[06:29] <hyperair> actually you know what?
[06:29] <hyperair> i think i'll disable the auto offline test thing..
[06:29] <hyperair> and force it to start the offline test now
[06:29] <ohsix> i checked in win7 over some bleeting i saw on the googlenets, temperatures & AAM / APM data is the same stuff i setup
[06:29] <ohsix> good idea, it'll heat it up just the same, just won't sbeak up on you :P
[06:29] <ohsix> b->n
[06:30] <hyperair> heh
[06:30] <hyperair> i don't think it'll heat up that much
[06:30] <hyperair> i've run an offline test on my previous hard disks before and nothing happened to them
[06:30] <hyperair> did you try booting into some windows or other?
[06:31] <ohsix> yep
[06:31] <hyperair> and?
[06:31] <hyperair> did it overheat?
[06:32] <ohsix> just st read the values & see if anything magical was happening
[06:32] <hyperair> did it overheat or not?
[06:32] <ohsix> it was heating up at the same rate; i din't need to poke at it :P
[06:32] <hyperair> yeah, so take your laptop back to the manufacturer and complain
[06:32] <ohsix> it was just to see if it had magic or if it was dumb stuff people were doing
[06:33] <ohsix> not an option
[06:33] <hyperair> why?
[06:33] <ohsix> plus automatic offline tests would never be turned on by the IHV, so they wouldn't have much to do with it
[06:34] <hyperair> IHV?
[06:34] <ohsix> out of warranty, and i can't really call it defective
[06:34] <hyperair> independent hardware vendor?
[06:34] <ohsix> independent har .. yea
[06:34] <hyperair> heh
[06:35] <hyperair> so it didn't start overheating until recently?
[06:35] <ohsix> couldn't put a timeframe on it, the initial problems i had with the first drive was heat just making the sectors on the disk unreadable, randomly
[06:36] <ohsix> it had been cooking the drive for a while though
[06:36] <ohsix> probably a year, i wasn't watching the temps
[06:37] <ohsix> i didn't think random stuff would go tits up either
[06:37] <ohsix> as obvious as that may be to state it, i mean; heat is what makes magnetic domains go all mushy and anneal their data right out of them
[06:38] <ohsix> people saying "high temperatures kill drives" AREN'T saying that, in fact the drive is fine, the data is not
[06:40] <ohsix> you could probably run them until solder started melting if you weren't interested in the data on them
[06:41] <ohsix> but, i can live with using augmented airflow when i run an offline scan; or defrag, its rare enough
[06:52] <ohsix> hyperair: anything yet? should have beenlong enough to go higher than normal
[06:52] <hyperair> ohsix: temperature hasn't gone above 45.
[06:52] <hyperair> oh wait
[06:52] <hyperair> it hit 46.
[06:52] <ohsix> is it running the test? -x has a log of statuses
[06:52] <hyperair> but it came back down to 45
[07:00] <hyperair> it's running,i think
[07:01] <ohsix> smartctl -l selftest /dev/sda
[07:02] <ohsix> depending on the brand, actual ongoing status might only be in smartctl -l selective
[07:18] <hyperair> it doesn't say it's running O-o
[07:19] <ohsix> you did -t offline right
[07:19] <hyperair> yes i did
[07:20] <ohsix> hm\
[07:20] <ohsix> it should at least sayit was cancelled
[07:21] <ohsix> if it got the command at all and did anything with it
[07:24] <hyperair> it said it was started and would end at some other time..
[07:24] <hyperair> i ran a short selftest and that bumped up the temperature though
[07:25] <ohsix> oh
[07:25] <ohsix> you need -t long, not -t offline
[07:25] <ohsix> most drives won't actually do a prompt offline scan
[07:25] <ohsix> uff sorry, should have said that
[07:28] <hyperair> meh
[07:29] <ohsix> long does what offline does though
[07:30] <ohsix> offline has a very specific meaning with regard to the smart values, its probably wht no drives do prompt tests with that name anymore
[07:30] <hyperair> alright, it says it'll be done by 17:57
[07:30] <hyperair> now it's 15:30
[07:31] <ohsix> if you think about it, an offline test doesn't make sense to do prompted, "offline" is stuff the drive just does, but it can also do the test if you do -o on
[07:33] <hyperair> ohsix: so anyway, temperature has risen to 51 degrees
[07:33] <ohsix> keen
[07:34] <hyperair> 52.
[07:34] <ohsix> my hd has been 41-42 the whole time we've been chatting, but it's a very cool room
[07:35] <ohsix> when you've had enough -X will abort the test :P
[07:35] <hyperair> okay, it's peaked at 52
[07:35] <hyperair> yeah i know about -X. smartctl mentioned it when i started
[07:35] <ohsix> right
[07:36] <hyperair> but yeah so it's peaked at 52, and this room isn't exactly very cool.
[07:36] <ohsix> i bet you have metal nearby in the drive bay that wicks away some heat
[07:36] <hyperair> yes
[07:36] <ohsix> but all i needed to know was that it'd go right past normal doing it
[07:36] <ohsix> thanks
[07:36] <hyperair> the drive bay has this metal casing thing that screws onto the disk and keeps it in place
[07:37] <ohsix> right, but i mean outside of that
[07:37] <hyperair> 53 degrees.
[07:37] <hyperair> no there isn't much metal outside of that
[07:37] <hyperair> everything's plastic
[07:37] <ohsix> like the railing or something under it
[07:37] <ohsix> weird
[07:37] <hyperair> nope
[07:38] <ohsix> ok see how hot it will get, you should be good till 60c if it's not for more than a few hours, so you won't hurt anything
[07:39] <hyperair> ok
[07:40] <ohsix> knowing how fast it cools down after the test stops would be neat too
[07:41] <hyperair> uh oh
[07:41] <hyperair> smartctl -l scttemp /dev/sda showsError invalid Temperature History Size or Index
[07:41] <ohsix> heh
[07:41] <ohsix> have you tried to run it during a test before
[07:42] <hyperair> nope
[07:42] <ohsix> drive might not do it
[07:42] <hyperair> well i had watch running on it every 2 secs
[07:42] <hyperair> now i'
[07:42] <hyperair> now i'm just watching hddtemp
[07:42] <ohsix> ah
[07:42] <ohsix> scttemp is neat, but only updates the log every 5 minutes
[07:43] <hyperair> no, it was every minute for me
[07:43] <hyperair> oh look i've got a log again
[07:43] <hyperair>  127    2011-02-27 15:41    53  **********************************
[07:43] <hyperair>    0    2011-02-27 15:42    54  ***********************************
[07:43] <hyperair>    1    2011-02-27 15:43    54  ***********************************
[07:44] <ohsix> http://paste.ubuntu.com/572965/ this is my log from today, you can see where it started the test huhuhu
[07:45] <ohsix> the temperatures are at least stable now with the changes i made to AAM/APM, mainly setting them to the suggested value :|
[07:46] <ohsix> i'm thinking of a good way ubuntu could do this for you; it doesn't make any sense to set it to the max performance number in all cases
[07:46] <ohsix> you need heavy cooling to do anything above what the vendor suggests
[07:47] <hyperair> no, not really.
[07:47] <hyperair> i've actually never heard of hard disks overheating before
[07:47] <hyperair> and i use ubuntu's default AAM/APM values
[07:48] <hyperair> and like i mentioned, there's no airflow in the hard disk bay
[07:48] <hyperair> also, the reason we set those values so high was because some broken hard disks kept parking the head
[07:48] <hyperair> so the Load_Cycle_Count kept increasing
[07:48] <ohsix> its down to the vendor
[07:48] <ohsix> ya i know, checked out all the bugs
[07:49] <hyperair> yep
[07:52] <ohsix> pegging it to one value isn't great though, turns off automatic power management alltogether
[07:53] <ohsix> i've not had a drive in my posession that would spin down when set to 128
[07:55] <ohsix> couldn't palimpsest check and see if its increasing the head unload count during timespans it, by its configuration couldn't?
[07:56] <ohsix> like if it was set to spin down every minute, but also set to 128, if it sees more than one or two in its smart sampling interval its probably doing it
[07:56] <ohsix> er i guess udisks would do that
[07:58] <ohsix> btw, people don't know their disks have been getting too hot until they've lost something, and probably not even then
[08:00] <ohsix> the hdparm script could do it if it assumes they only happen at shutdown, and ignores changes when on battery, if the startup script knows then it can peg it on full blast
[08:01] <ohsix> but i didn't think to check out that angle until the brand new drive i got did the exact same thing the one i replaced did :\
[08:26] <hyperair> ohsix: you could get a SSD instead. i think those don't heat up as much
[08:26] <ohsix> it's not for me
[08:27] <ohsix> its for people that are baking their hard drives and have no way of knowing
[08:27] <hyperair> well
[08:27] <hyperair> i'm sure they'll notice if it feels hot
[08:28] <ohsix> palimpsest could at least report if the temp is 55 or over like it does for bad sectors
[08:28] <hyperair> my hard disk's at 58 degrees celcius now, by the way
[08:28] <ohsix> nice
[08:28] <hyperair> 55 is a safe temperature.
[08:28] <hyperair> 60 isn't.
[08:28] <hyperair> or rather.. 60 is the warning level
[08:28] <hyperair> 80 is the max
[08:29] <ohsix> laptops get hot in spite of having harddrives
[08:29] <ohsix> i never got a warning at 60
[08:29] <hyperair> i guess
[08:29] <ohsix> my drive has a stated operating temperature who's upper bound is also 60
[08:30] <hyperair> perhaps you could file a bug under gnome-disk-utility and smartctl
[08:30] <ohsix> isn't it udisks & palimpsest that do that reporting & notification?
[08:30] <hyperair> er
[08:30] <hyperair> i'm not sure
[08:31] <hyperair> i think they still use smartctl's database, no?
[08:31] <ohsix> ok
[08:31] <ohsix> well they couldn't be, not for the notifications i have gotten anyways
[08:32] <ohsix> but that was for bad sectors; the drive has always had a fixed number of them too, i couldn't do anything but ignore the drive entirely to shut it up
[08:32] <ohsix> bad sectors are bad, but unless they're growing at a certain rate it should be easy to dismiss it without removing all reporting
[08:33] <hyperair> well i don't know much about this
[08:33] <hyperair> you'd probably get better feedback about this by talking to the smartmontools devels
[08:34] <ohsix> i'm not sure what they have to do with it
[08:34] <ohsix> i'm the only one using smartmontools; udisks doesn't
[08:34] <ohsix> palimpsest just shows info from udisks and lets you make udisks do stuff
[08:35] <hyperair> i'm just saying that they're more informed about hard disk operating temperatures and hard disk health and thel ike
[08:35] <hyperair> i'm pretty clueless when it comes to this
[08:35] <hyperair> i do recall some google research saying that hard disk temperatures didn't really affect their lifespan
[08:36] <ohsix> their lifespan doesn't say anything about whats on the drives though; i read the same thing
[08:37] <ohsix> and like i said, you could run the things until the solder melts, but that doesn't say anything about the stuff on the disk
[08:39] <hyperair> right, and the people who are more informed about this are the smartmontools developers
[08:39] <hyperair> not me
[08:39] <ohsix> o i c
[08:39] <ohsix> what could i practically do with the information; i've got mine under control
[08:40] <hyperair> i don't know
[08:40] <ohsix> but someone is annealing their bits right now with ubuntu
[08:42] <ohsix> setting apm to 128 was half of the solution btw
[08:43] <ohsix> with 256 it would slowly heat up, ever so slowly, but it didn't have a hard knee where cooling was beating heating like it does at 128
[08:44] <ohsix> er 254
[08:45] <ohsix> 200 would probably be a good middle ground even, though for my circumstance it'd take a while to measure
[08:48] <ohsix> if i can find out if 200 solves the problem enough here, can the number be bumped down some?
[08:51] <ohsix> hi cjwatson
[11:37] <Daviey> !regression-alert (potential) bug #725635, had 5 reports of failed to install within 18 hours... looks like squid wasn't running when restart was called, causing exit 1
[11:39] <Daviey> !regression-alert
[12:15] <chrisccoulson> Daviey, i'm guessing https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squid/2.7.STABLE7-1ubuntu12.2 fixes that
[12:20] <Daviey> chrisccoulson, It could be, but it could also be related to log file rotation.... I managed to reproduce the same behaviour by removing the log files, and performing a restart.
[12:20] <Daviey> Doesn't look like doing that caused squid to seg fault, so not quite sure how upstart managed to loose it's grip on squid based on doing that
[12:23] <Daviey> but looking at the diff for the current proposed package, it would probably handle that situatiob
[12:26] <Daviey> It does resolve it.
[13:41] <kirkland> andersk: hi
[13:41] <andersk> kirkland: Hi.
[13:41] <kirkland> andersk: i'm concerned about your ecryptfs error;  i have a few minutes to try and debug this, if you like....
[13:41] <andersk> Sure.
[13:42] <andersk> I discovered that ‘keyctl clear @u’ is enough to make ‘ecryptfs-mount-private’ work again.
[13:42] <andersk> (After looking at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495143 )
[13:42] <kirkland> andersk: oh, hmm, interesting....
[13:42] <kirkland> andersk: right, there's some new code in ecryptfs-utils that tries to clean that up
[13:43] <kirkland> andersk: i'm trying to figure out if and how a regression crept in
[13:43] <kirkland> andersk: are you running latest/greatest natty?
[13:43] <andersk> I wonder if my problem is triggered by having the OpenAFS client installed, since that also uses the kernel keyring.
[13:43] <andersk> Yes.
[13:43] <kirkland> andersk: oh, hrm;  yeah, i was about to start asking keyring questions
[13:43] <kirkland> andersk: i just responded to your bug, asking for the output of 'keyctl list @u'
[13:44] <kirkland> andersk: when you're getting the error
[13:44] <andersk> Posted.
[13:45] <andersk> (Bug 725862, in case anyone listening is curious about the context, BTW.)
[13:47] <andersk> I can reproduce without the openafs module loaded (after keyctl clear @u; ecryptfs-mount-private; ecryptfs-umount-private; ecryptfs-mount-private).
[13:48] <andersk> Oh wait, the hex number listed after “Inserted auth tok with sig” is different when it succeeds and when it fails.
[13:51] <andersk> And after it succeeds, I have two keys in @u, one with each value.
[13:54] <andersk> ecryptfs-umount-private only deletes the right one, so the wrong one stays around and apparently breaks it.
[14:13] <andersk> kirkland: I’m off to sleep, but thanks for looking, and let me know if there’s any other info I can provide.
[14:13] <kirkland> andersk: k, thanks
[15:39] <cdbs> My exams are beginning, so I won't respond here on IRC or anywhere until they get over on March 16th. Leave me a mail if you need to contact me immediately.
[15:40]  * cdbs /aways now for 18 days
[15:49] <penguin42> cdbs: Good luck!
[17:51] <rniamo> hi, do you have any idea how many times is needed to fix this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/710678 ?
[19:31] <belak> Is there a way of debuggin ubiquity? I'm trying to make a change to remove the option to encrypt home in the installer used in 10.04 because it crashes it...
[19:31] <belak> s/debuggin/deugging/
[19:31] <belak> Ok, I give up on the spelling thing...
[19:36] <charlie-tca> belak: by running ubiquity --debug from a terminal
[19:36] <charlie-tca> it gives you a pretty good log you can go through to find the issues
[19:37] <charlie-tca> You can also set breaks, where it will stop automatically, but I can not remember how to do it.
[19:42] <belak> ok. thanks. :)
[21:56] <RAOF> @pilot in
[22:00] <Laney> WOO
[22:01] <RAOF> Wooo?
[22:03] <Laney> It's always good when a pilot shows up. Makes me feel I am no longer on a ship travelling blind through the dark.
[22:04] <RAOF> :)
[22:04] <StevenK> Other people can also answer questions?
[22:27] <bdrung_> DktrKranz, james_w: can you update python-launchpadlib in debian unstable?
[22:36] <DktrKranz> bdrung_: python-keyring (>= 0.5) is required for that