[00:03] [Kwabena Aning] LyX - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/257 [00:31] AlanBell, you still here? [00:31] my war is coming to an end [00:34] so given the war I just faught and that lucid is finally behaving itself [00:34] should I still upgrade? [00:36] * hamitron wouldn't [00:36] but it depends if you want newer stuff [00:36] :) [00:38] lol [00:38] that was war [00:38] it wouldnt fix until I completely reformatted [00:39] well in any even I am downloading the live disk for meerkat [00:39] just incase [00:39] event* [00:39] karmic live disk doesnt work off the bat and lucid seems to be dependant on mood [00:39] cant hurt to have that one ready [00:39] lol [00:40] does anyone run another linux distro? am thinking open suse? time to try other stuff... fedora will kill me... too hard core [00:42] sometimes it is a good way to learn, trying something more "hardcore" [00:43] but it is also sometimes a good idea to learn 1 system first [00:43] i have been using Ubuntu for 4 years [00:43] am not going to get better at it [00:43] lol [00:43] easier to learn how to manage installed packages and stuff [00:44] well, it is refreshing to try new distro, see what suits you best also :) [00:44] my personal favourites are slackware, debian and ubuntu [00:44] slackware.... u are hardcore [00:45] tbh, I find slackware easiest [00:45] ;/ [00:45] lol [00:45] i think the name slack implies it lol [00:45] where is xorg.conf [00:45] i searched and didnt find it [00:46] I started playing with linux before the days of GUI installs [00:46] isnt it at /etc/x11? [00:46] these days you often don't need one [00:46] and i wouldn't touch it before GUI [00:46] lol [00:46] it took me 2 years to get the GUI started :) [00:47] are you old? [00:47] my vid card was cheap and picky [00:47] 28 [00:47] so I like to think young ;/ [00:48] 28 and 2 years without GUI? [00:48] wow! [00:48] this is driving me mad [00:48] why would xorg.conf be hiding? [00:48] these days it can auto detect everything [00:49] so no settings are needed in xorg.conf, and there is no point in creating it [00:49] lol i need it [00:49] i have a TV for a monitor [00:49] trust me [00:49] you want nvidia working [00:49] I personally hate not having a config file [00:49] fix xorg first [00:49] popey made me a magical xorg file [00:50] :) [00:50] heh [00:50] there is a command to generate it [00:50] or a default one [00:50] popey am up and running [00:50] not any more there isnt [00:50] not a useful one anyway [00:50] when I install nvidia [00:51] my graphics go mad [00:51] imo, that really is a bad thing [00:51] Xorg development has spoilt linux use for me :( [00:51] if you use nvidia, nvidia-settings will generate an xorg.conf [00:52] as wil nvidia-xconfig [00:52] (on the command line) [00:52] * hamitron goes and moans in a corner by himself to save everyone [00:52] okay lets give it a go [00:52] i am installing the drivers [00:52] and you will probably need one, because nvidia driver is stuck in the 00s [00:52] dont any of you nice people go to bed in the middle of this [00:52] don't spend too long then ;) [00:53] hamitron i wont but system is still updating [00:53] got 8 mins left [00:53] I was meaning hours tbh [00:53] :) [00:53] cant run another software manager in that time [00:53] just dont go to bed [00:54] especially you popey [00:54] hah [00:54] * popey is watching IM3 on C4HD [00:54] not going to bed yet [00:54] er MI3 [00:54] what is IM3 and c4HD> [00:54] C4HD? [00:54] Mission Impossible 3 [00:54] Channel 4 HD [00:54] posh bugger [00:54] ;/ [00:54] so i got this blu ray disk player that let you watch youtube [00:55] popey: did you ever play IM? [00:55] erm.... apart from the luxury of sitting on the sofa and pressing the remote [00:55] my parent have one, it doesn't support HD and looks terrible [00:55] am not sure this is worth the investment [00:55] guess I should buy a digibox before they turn off analogue [00:55] bigcalm: yeah, not that much of a fan [00:55] but the blu ray disk quality is wooowwww [00:56] hamitron: i only have virgin cable telly [00:56] and only then because I have a 'mates rates' deal [00:56] :) [00:56] when was the last world cup? [00:56] btw, they use linux to do the youtube stuff, that's why they take so long to switch mode: they have to dual boot, because they are too paranoid to use linux for the bluray function [00:56] * bigcalm wants to play mc on the server [00:56] 2006 [00:56] thats when i bought my telly [00:57] ali1234: i thought the blueray function was linux also [00:57] mine is older than me :/ [00:57] in fact isnt it java [00:57] probably [00:58] the one my parents has reboots into a totally different UI when you go to the extended web functions, it looks completely different, like it was made by a totally different team [00:58] and that part definitely uses linux, and it takes about 5 minutes to load up [00:58] it's a panasonic [00:58] someone spank the minecraft creator :/ [01:00] heh [01:00] They need better servers [01:01] I deleted my install on my other comp [01:01] and was going to start fresh on here [01:01] now can't get the damn thing [01:01] I removed it from my workstation so that I might do some work instead [01:01] well [01:02] technically I am moving it to mine [01:02] ;) === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [01:02] clearing stuff off my rig for proper games [01:11] hmm, if this Intel Thunderbolt stuff is external wired PCI-e and it's going to be common, I wonder how it's secured [01:16] probably the same way as firewire [01:16] ie not at all [01:22] okay [01:22] so i accidentally switched off the machine [01:22] and when i rebooted i got the old black screen of death with the error message [01:23] needless to say i am now in a live session AGAIN [01:23] popey can you tell me how to make a live USB, I had already download 10.10 onto the HDD [01:23] I was in the middle of burning a live disk when I switched it off actually [01:23] i think grub needs updating [01:26] popey [01:26] hamitron, [01:27] hmm? [01:27] !usb [01:27] For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent [01:28] why have i gone back to that black screen of death? [01:30] what did you do to fix it last time? [08:49] dude u want this http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar [08:54] hello all [08:55] ah not the only channel to be offered the rar file :) [09:01] I've gone on a +b spree [09:01] :) [09:13] humdidum [09:49] morning Myrtti and all [09:52] morning AlanBell [10:00] if i run an application under another user but on my desktop by setting the DISPLAY to localhost:0 will it leave any trace under my account === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [10:07] Jibadeeha: probably not [10:17] think you are right AlanBell === Azelphur is now known as zz_Azelphur === zz_Azelphur is now known as Azelphur [11:14] morning everyone. [11:14] morning [11:14] morning MooDoo [11:18] :) [11:19] i did a "sudo do-release-upgrade -d" from maverick to natty last night. [11:20] did it break anything? [11:24] not noticed anything major yet. [11:27] only thing that is broke, thats major, is i have no application menu, but i do have that thingie for menu's thats adapts to the prog you have open. [11:28] and i cant figure out how toget it back. [11:50] no luck, any advice how to get my app menu back? please. [11:51] is this unity brobostigon? [11:51] there is an icon part way down the unity side bar which opens the list of applications [11:51] Unity doesnt have the "Applications Places System" menu [11:51] it has a setsquare on it [11:51] :) [11:51] it is broken for me at the moment [11:52] i didnt even notice it until recently [11:52] popey: i am in desktop safemode, unity isnt working properly. [11:52] if you can get to a terminal and start the application you want you can right click it in the unity thing and tell it to keep it in the menu [11:52] classic gnome? [11:52] popey: yes. [11:53] no, ubuntu desktop, from the login screen, but (safemode) [11:53] nnot classic. [12:02] Does anyone know what the animal on the cover of 'Time Management for System Administators' is? [12:04] sloth? [12:04] it's a wolverine [12:05] jacobw: wolverine :) [12:07] * popey is making roast [12:08] * MooDoo suddenly dislikes popey [12:09] chicken, potatoes, stuffing, carrots, peas, cauliflower cheese [12:09] broccoli [12:10] anyone know how to find the position of the text cursor relative to either the screen or the window? [12:11] using dbus, at-spi or X stuff or anything else really [12:12] the text cursor on a console? [12:12] on any window [12:12] the place at which typing will happen [12:12] that sounds hard [12:14] or, the place at which a character has just been typed would do [12:14] not sure that anything other than the app would know that [12:14] and why would the app expose it [12:14] because of at-spi [12:15] in theory [12:15] hihi [12:15] high level requirement is the compiz zoom plugin that follows the mouse, I want it to follow the text cursor too when typing [12:15] ah [12:16] wonder if you could bodge using xdamage [12:16] to see where the screen changed [12:16] hard though given it changes all over the place [12:16] especially with compiz! [12:16] and libnotify [12:17] any idea how to make mythtv-server actually start at boot time? atm I have to "sudo service mythtv-backend start" every time I reboot. It is seriously damaging the girlfriend acceptance factor. [12:17] although it might actually be nice to zoom over to a libnotify thing when it happens [12:17] http://library.gnome.org/users/orca/unstable/preferences_magnifier.html.en [12:17] this can do it [12:17] ali1234: yes, badly [12:17] haven't figured out how it does it [12:18] * AlanBell goes to read the orca source [12:20] talking about orca, anyone on nn getting an error during login about orca.py 'local variable environ_message referenced before assignment' or is it just me? [12:21] would unity-2d do it,? [12:25] brobostigon: i dont think unity 2d is finished [12:25] brobostigon: whats wrong with unity? [12:26] popey: it isnt working properly, [12:26] how? [12:27] being natty it could just be broken temporarily [12:27] Seeker`: sudo update-rc.d mythtv-backend defaults [12:27] should do it I think [12:27] .4 [12:27] bah [12:27] it pops in and out all the time, i cant launch apps, as the search doesnt work. [12:27] it is supposed to pop in and out [12:27] the search is currently broken [12:28] but not without me telling it to do it. [12:28] it will if a window goes near it [12:28] brobostigon: it was doing that for me yesterday [12:28] I'm sure it will be fixed soon eh gord ? :D [12:28] popey: there was no window near it, i had just logged in. [12:28] it was constantly flipping in and out as fast as it could. Fixed today with upgrade (although I didn't actually see unity in the packages to upgrade) [12:29] AlanBell: hmm, weird isnt it. [12:29] fun [12:29] AlanBell: let me upgrade and see if it fixes. [12:29] nah, fun is what is going to happen on release day when millions of noobs log in to it the first time [12:31] :) [12:32] AlanBell: xulrunner is on the upgrade list, is that anything to dowith it? [12:32] no [12:33] ok. [12:33] hi folks.. just wondering: is there the daily build in a virtual machine thing available for 11.04 yet? [sorry, forgot the name of the app that was there for previous builds] [12:35] testdrive [12:35] no idea, I just use virtualbox [12:36] AlanBell: thanks, I'll go check [12:37] AlanBell: thanks, I'll give it a go [12:39] ok, me logout, login, to see if unity fixed now. [12:39] * suprengr says bfn... switching to 10.10 to go test drive 'testdrive' [12:42] hi all [12:43] I am trying to use the vlc web interface to stream media, how can I access it from another computer? [12:44] I tried from my phone but I don't get audio or video [12:44] can I access the web interface from a computer? [12:49] * brobostigon gives up for a few hours. [12:56] unity-2d seems to be kinda working though. [12:57] although i can see a few missing bits. [13:00] unity-2d is my temporary new friend. [13:01] huge issue though, i cant get into any application menu's, [13:56] AlanBell: that didn't work :( [13:57] AlanBell: it uses upstart, don't know if that changes anything [13:59] upstart should run init scripts, I thought [14:00] apparently not [14:01] http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html [14:01] it uses its own conf files, and symlinks the init.d file to its own script [14:02] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/573061/ [14:02] thats the conf file that is there by default [14:03] but it doesn't seem to run when the computer stats [14:03] *starts [14:03] [Tony] Were back. And its about time. - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/02/27/were-back-and-its-about-time/ [14:34] * brobostigon return from a live usb of natty, to see if its the upgrade has caused breakage. [14:35] i think the upgrade has caused breakage, as unity works fine from live usb. [14:43] weird. unity seems to work fine from live usb. so is it possible. the upgrade from maverick caused breakage? [14:44] brobostigon-g1, would help if you described the problem [14:45] gord the unity panel pops in and out. putting mouse on it does nothing. [14:45] brobostigon-g1, do you mean the panel or the launcher [14:46] the thing on the left. [14:46] the launcher. [14:46] known bug, wait for monday for a fix [14:47] ok. thank you gord. :) [14:51] gord may i ask where the problem lies. so i know what to look for. [14:57] * brobostigon returns [15:13] * popey tickles kazade [15:13] afternoon popey [15:14] working on that Twitter client ;) [15:17] my twitter client doubles as a browser [15:18] kazade: is it a CLI one? [15:19] AlanBell, nope :) [15:20] gtk and better than gwibber? [15:22] AlanBell, indeed [15:22] Is it firefox? [15:22] :) [15:23] AlanBell, it's already better than Gwibber in that it doesn't take 30 seconds to load and eat masses of memory... on the other hand it doesn't yet display tweets, so swings and roundabouts [15:23] will it support the streaming API? [15:26] well... not immediately, but I can add that [15:27] at the moment the features list consists of 1.) Don't suck 2.) Support Twitter and Identica 3.) Integrate nicely into Ubuntu [15:28] I like it [15:28] streaming API is an important component of #1 [15:28] yeah definitely [15:28] especially for searches [15:28] not so much for your home timeline [15:29] I think it is [15:29] heh, you must follow more people than me :) [15:29] I follow 541 people [15:29] and have 411 stalkers [15:30] AlanBell, yeah I follow < 100 [15:31] ok, I'll make streaming a priority after actually getting it working :) [15:31] where is the code? [15:32] and is it python? [15:33] the code isn't open yet, still thinking about how to license it [15:33] and no, it's C++ [15:34] * BigRedS didn't realise people were allowed to code in non-python these days :) [15:35] You are if you want something to be even mildly fast [15:35] * mgdm runs [15:35] :) [15:35] don't you work on php? :) [15:35] * BigRedS runs in the opposite direction [15:36] I decided against Python... because of Gwibber :) [15:36] Yeah, but I do things that need to be fast in C ;) [15:36] (waits for "but you can write extensions in C") [15:36] :p [15:37] * hamitron prefers C to C++ [15:37] * mgdm doesn't know C++ [15:37] and I intend to keep it that way [15:37] can't get the hang of C++, learning atm ;) [15:37] I've been learning C++ for about 8 years [15:37] still learning [15:37] :) [15:38] I should of said "learning the basics of C++" [15:38] haha [15:38] I keep meaning to try some C flavour, but nobody trusts me with things that need to be fast, so theres no overriding need to [15:39] I just struggle to motivate myself to learn anything other than C, when the performance of loads of these new languages is not so good [15:39] I can see why I should, but just lazy [15:40] my issue is the other way round - Perl always does almost exactly what I expect it to do. I keep getting annoyed at having a language that does something differently and just start whatever it was again in perl [15:40] I just don't write stuff that's particularly better done in C [15:40] i stick with c an c++, because pretty much any system icome across it will be of use, more or less the same, unlike other languages. so i stick with c and c++. [15:41] I generally use Python for stuff that doesn't need to be fast, C++ for stuff that does [15:42] I want my Twitter client to be really lightweight, hence the Gtkmm over PyGtk [15:42] I use C# for some stuff though [15:42] I don't touch Java - horrible language :) [15:42] it is a shame more developers don't want that light weight feature :) [15:42] perfect example, would you truly use python on a microcontroller where you need realtime speed, no. you would use c++. [15:42] hamitron, indeed [15:43] it is that lack of "the need for efficiency" that is killing computing for me [15:44] cba with all this memory use [15:44] just frustrating [15:44] hamitron: hence i do stuff that requires that, iuse BeOS and or Haiku-OS. [15:44] hamitron, but if you say anything, you get the reply "But we have so much memory now".. [15:44] which is fine for a single app, or two apps [15:45] but if your whole desktop is designed around the fact you have a lot of memory/CPU.. [15:45] not so good [15:45] exactly [15:45] brobostigon, I do intend to try it [15:45] :) [15:45] bbl [15:45] and then you try and fit it on a mobile phone/tablet that is back at ~1GHz/512MB RAM [15:45] gotta go on roof to changing some cables [15:45] :/ [15:45] o/ [15:45] design your OS to be as efficiant and stable and speedy as possible. [15:45] hamitron: :) [15:46] right, the accounts dialog is "done" [15:46] unless you want to remove accounts... that button doesn't work yet :p [15:46] to make the most of any resource it has, than waste it with unncesseties. [15:48] * brobostigon is slightly taken aback, by unity's workspace switcher. [15:54] Anyone up for some virtualisation help? [15:54] As in why ok in 10.10 but 10.04 wants ubuntu install cd in drive before install [for both virtualbox & kvm]? [15:56] [& then ignores the fact the CD is in the drive] [15:56] is this a bug to report or am I just being stooopid [again]? [15:57] can you just say that again? [15:57] how do you mean it wants the cd in drive before install? [15:57] Exact msg... CD/DVD 'Ubuntu 10.04 LTS _Lucid Lynx_ - Release i386 (20100429)' is required [15:57] Please insert the above CD/DVD into the drive '/cdrom/' to install software packages from the medium. [15:57] when? [15:58] more or less immediaely after 'install' request from either synaptic or software mng [15:58] oh ok [15:59] suprengr: Just go and edit the software sources or attack /etc/apt/sources.list with an editor; it's just still got the install CD in as a software source [15:59] penguin42: just going to look... [16:02] penguin42: good shot!!! installing now... thanks a mil :) [16:04] no prob [16:33] My server's date/time is always around 4 seconds out when ntpdate runs in cron. What might that suggest? [16:33] if you just run ntpdate normally is it ok? [16:34] root@revo:~# sh /etc/cron.daily/ntpdate [16:34] 27 Feb 16:34:16 ntpdate[1590]: step time server 91.189.94.4 offset 1.687821 sec [16:34] bigcalm: Do not run ntpdate in cron! [16:34] bigcalm: the proper solution is to run ntpd [16:35] mgdm: :( [16:35] Why should it make any difference? [16:35] large jumps in the time have a tendency to make certain apps break [16:35] Dovecot, notably [16:35] ntpd adjust things by a few milliseconds here and there, more frequently [16:36] "sudo apt-get install ntpd" does, if I recall correctly, set up everything for you with no intervention required [16:36] But why should the machine be out by 4 seconds every day? [16:36] because the real-time clocks in PCs suck [16:36] hi [16:36] not normally by that much, though? [16:36] I've never had one suck that much daily [16:37] E: Couldn't find package ntpd [16:37] try ntp [16:37] That's a bit extreme, you could also see it happen if you are losing timer interrupts for some reason (especially if rebooting brings the time back in line) [16:38] Installed and running. Ho hum [16:38] Virtual machines are really bad for it for various reasons [16:39] This is my revo, not a vm [16:39] But I've seen bare metal be about 10 seconds off a day, so... [16:42] Kraftwerk make excellent coding music [16:42] I only really like 'The Model' by them [16:42] I like quite a lot of their stuff, though they have a live album called Minimum-Maximum that is really good === fieldyweb is now known as fieldyMAC [16:54] mgdm: Agreed. [17:17] Less than 3 hours until Mark Steel, woop [17:18] i just noticed, the clock in unity, doesnt seem to have an option to show seconds. [17:18] < 3 hours until Top Gear :) [17:18] :) [17:18] brobostigon: Options are for other people. Unity is designed FOR you [17:18] brobostigon: so you can't change anything [17:19] MartijnVdS: hmmm, ohwell. [17:19] MartijnVdS: are you going to a Top Gear show? [17:19] brobostigon: report a bug [17:19] bigcalm: no, Top Gear is on BBC2 tonight [17:19] mark it "feature" [17:19] or whatever they call it on LP [17:19] ali1234: i am going to see first, if it has already been done. [17:19]