[00:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] LyX - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/257
[00:31] <safiyyah> AlanBell,  you still here?
[00:31] <safiyyah> my war is coming to an end
[00:34] <safiyyah> so given the war I just faught and that lucid is finally behaving itself
[00:34] <safiyyah> should I still upgrade?
[00:36]  * hamitron wouldn't
[00:36] <hamitron> but it depends if you want newer stuff
[00:36] <hamitron> :)
[00:38] <safiyyah> lol
[00:38] <safiyyah> that was war
[00:38] <safiyyah> it wouldnt fix until I completely reformatted
[00:39] <safiyyah> well in any even I am downloading the live disk for meerkat
[00:39] <safiyyah> just incase
[00:39] <safiyyah> event*
[00:39] <safiyyah> karmic live disk doesnt work off the bat and lucid seems to be dependant on mood
[00:39] <safiyyah> cant hurt to have that one ready
[00:39] <safiyyah> lol
[00:40] <safiyyah> does anyone run another linux distro? am thinking open suse? time to try other stuff... fedora will kill me... too hard core
[00:42] <hamitron> sometimes it is a good way to learn, trying something more "hardcore"
[00:43] <hamitron> but it is also sometimes a good idea to learn 1 system first
[00:43] <safiyyah> i have been using Ubuntu for 4 years
[00:43] <safiyyah> am not going to get better at it
[00:43] <safiyyah> lol
[00:43] <hamitron> easier to learn how to manage installed packages and stuff
[00:44] <hamitron> well, it is refreshing to try new distro, see what suits you best also :)
[00:44] <hamitron> my personal favourites are slackware, debian and ubuntu
[00:44] <safiyyah> slackware.... u are hardcore
[00:45] <hamitron> tbh, I find slackware easiest
[00:45] <hamitron> ;/
[00:45] <safiyyah> lol
[00:45] <safiyyah> i think the name slack implies it lol
[00:45] <safiyyah> where is xorg.conf
[00:45] <safiyyah> i searched and didnt find it
[00:46] <hamitron> I started playing with linux before the days of GUI installs
[00:46] <safiyyah> isnt it at /etc/x11?
[00:46] <hamitron> these days you often don't need one
[00:46] <safiyyah> and i wouldn't touch it before GUI
[00:46] <safiyyah> lol
[00:46] <hamitron> it took me 2 years to get the GUI started :)
[00:47] <safiyyah> are you old?
[00:47] <hamitron> my vid card was cheap and picky
[00:47] <hamitron> 28
[00:47] <hamitron> so I like to think young ;/
[00:48] <safiyyah> 28 and 2 years without GUI?
[00:48] <safiyyah> wow!
[00:48] <safiyyah> this is driving me mad
[00:48] <safiyyah> why would xorg.conf be hiding?
[00:48] <hamitron> these days it can auto detect everything
[00:49] <hamitron> so no settings are needed in xorg.conf, and there is no point in creating it
[00:49] <safiyyah> lol i need it
[00:49] <safiyyah> i have a TV for a monitor
[00:49] <safiyyah> trust me
[00:49] <safiyyah> you want nvidia working
[00:49] <hamitron> I personally hate not having a config file
[00:49] <safiyyah> fix xorg first
[00:49] <safiyyah> popey made me a magical xorg file
[00:50] <safiyyah> :)
[00:50] <popey> heh
[00:50] <hamitron> there is a command to generate it
[00:50] <hamitron> or a default one
[00:50] <safiyyah> popey am up and running
[00:50] <popey> not any more there isnt
[00:50] <popey> not a useful one anyway
[00:50] <safiyyah> when I install nvidia
[00:51] <safiyyah> my graphics go mad
[00:51] <hamitron> imo, that really is a bad thing
[00:51] <hamitron> Xorg development has spoilt linux use for me :(
[00:51] <ali1234> if you use nvidia, nvidia-settings will generate an xorg.conf
[00:52] <popey> as wil nvidia-xconfig
[00:52] <popey> (on the command line)
[00:52]  * hamitron goes and moans in a corner by himself to save everyone
[00:52] <safiyyah> okay lets give it a go
[00:52] <safiyyah> i am installing the drivers
[00:52] <ali1234> and you will probably need one, because nvidia driver is stuck in the 00s
[00:52] <safiyyah> dont any of you nice people go to bed in the middle of this
[00:52] <hamitron> don't spend too long then ;)
[00:53] <safiyyah> hamitron i wont but system is still updating
[00:53] <safiyyah> got 8 mins left
[00:53] <hamitron> I was meaning hours tbh
[00:53] <hamitron> :)
[00:53] <safiyyah> cant run another software manager in that time
[00:53] <safiyyah> just dont go to bed
[00:54] <safiyyah> especially you popey
[00:54] <popey> hah
[00:54]  * popey is watching IM3 on C4HD
[00:54] <popey> not going to bed yet
[00:54] <popey> er MI3
[00:54] <safiyyah> what is IM3 and c4HD>
[00:54] <hamitron> C4HD?
[00:54] <popey> Mission Impossible 3
[00:54] <popey> Channel 4 HD
[00:54] <hamitron> posh bugger
[00:54] <hamitron> ;/
[00:54] <safiyyah> so i got this blu ray disk player that let you watch youtube
[00:55] <bigcalm> popey: did you ever play IM?
[00:55] <safiyyah> erm.... apart from the luxury of sitting on the sofa and pressing the remote
[00:55] <ali1234> my parent have one, it doesn't support HD and looks terrible
[00:55] <safiyyah> am not sure this is worth the investment
[00:55] <hamitron> guess I should buy a digibox before they turn off analogue
[00:55] <popey> bigcalm: yeah, not that much of a fan
[00:55] <safiyyah> but the blu ray disk quality is wooowwww
[00:56] <popey> hamitron: i only have virgin cable telly
[00:56] <popey> and only then because I have a 'mates rates' deal
[00:56] <hamitron> :)
[00:56] <popey> when was the last world cup?
[00:56] <ali1234> btw, they use linux to do the youtube stuff, that's why they take so long to switch mode: they have to dual boot, because they are too paranoid to use linux for the bluray function
[00:56]  * bigcalm wants to play mc on the server
[00:56] <popey> 2006
[00:56] <popey> thats when i bought my telly
[00:57] <popey> ali1234: i thought the blueray function was linux also
[00:57] <hamitron> mine is older than me :/
[00:57] <popey> in fact isnt it java
[00:57] <ali1234> probably
[00:58] <ali1234> the one my parents has reboots into a totally different UI when you go to the extended web functions, it looks completely different, like it was made by a totally different team
[00:58] <ali1234> and that part definitely uses linux, and it takes about 5 minutes to load up
[00:58] <ali1234> it's a panasonic
[00:58] <hamitron> someone spank the minecraft creator :/
[01:00] <popey> heh
[01:00] <bigcalm> They need better servers
[01:01] <hamitron> I deleted my install on my other comp
[01:01] <hamitron> and was going to start fresh on here
[01:01] <hamitron> now can't get the damn thing
[01:01] <bigcalm> I removed it from my workstation so that I might do some work instead
[01:01] <hamitron> well
[01:02] <hamitron> technically I am moving it to mine
[01:02] <hamitron> ;)
[01:02] <hamitron> clearing stuff off my rig for proper games
[01:11] <penguin42> hmm, if this Intel Thunderbolt stuff is external wired PCI-e and it's going to be common, I wonder how it's secured
[01:16] <ali1234> probably the same way as firewire
[01:16] <ali1234> ie not at all
[01:22] <Safiyyah> okay
[01:22] <Safiyyah> so i accidentally switched off the machine
[01:22] <Safiyyah> and when i rebooted i got the old black screen of death with the error message
[01:23] <Safiyyah> needless to say i am now in a live session AGAIN
[01:23] <Safiyyah> popey can you tell me how to make a live USB, I had already download 10.10 onto the HDD
[01:23] <Safiyyah> I was in the middle of burning a live disk when I switched it off actually
[01:23] <Safiyyah> i think grub needs updating
[01:26] <Safiyyah> popey
[01:26] <Safiyyah> hamitron,
[01:27] <popey> hmm?
[01:27] <popey> !usb
[01:28] <Safiyyah> why have i gone back to that black screen of death?
[01:30] <hamitron> what did you do to fix it last time?
[08:49] <Pline> dude u want this http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar
[08:54] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:55] <MooDoo> ah not the only channel to be offered the rar file :)
[09:01] <tsimpson> I've gone on a +b spree
[09:01] <MooDoo> :)
[09:13] <Myrtti> humdidum
[09:49] <AlanBell> morning Myrtti and all
[09:52] <MooDoo> morning AlanBell
[10:00] <Jibadeeha> if i run an application under another user but on my desktop by setting the DISPLAY to localhost:0 will it leave any trace under my account
[10:07] <AlanBell> Jibadeeha: probably not
[10:17] <Jibadeeha> think you are right AlanBell
[11:14] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[11:14] <MooDoo> morning
[11:14] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[11:18] <MooDoo> :)
[11:19] <brobostigon> i did a "sudo do-release-upgrade -d" from maverick to natty last night.
[11:20] <MooDoo> did it break anything?
[11:24] <brobostigon> not noticed anything major yet.
[11:27] <brobostigon> only thing that is broke, thats major, is i have no application menu, but i do have that thingie for menu's thats adapts to the prog you have open.
[11:28] <brobostigon> and i cant figure out how toget it back.
[11:50] <brobostigon> no luck, any advice how to get my app menu back? please.
[11:51] <AlanBell> is this unity brobostigon?
[11:51] <popey> there is an icon part way down the unity side bar which opens the list of applications
[11:51] <popey> Unity doesnt have the "Applications Places System" menu
[11:51] <AlanBell> it has a setsquare on it
[11:51] <popey> :)
[11:51] <AlanBell> it is broken for me at the moment
[11:52] <popey> i didnt even notice it until recently
[11:52] <brobostigon> popey: i am in desktop safemode, unity isnt working properly.
[11:52] <AlanBell> if you can get to a terminal and start the application you want you can right click it in the unity thing and tell it to keep it in the menu
[11:52] <popey> classic gnome?
[11:52] <brobostigon> popey: yes.
[11:53] <brobostigon> no, ubuntu desktop, from the login screen, but (safemode)
[11:53] <brobostigon> nnot classic.
[12:02] <jacobw> Does anyone know what the animal on the cover of 'Time Management for System Administators' is?
[12:04] <popey> sloth?
[12:04] <MooDoo> it's a wolverine
[12:05] <MooDoo> jacobw: wolverine :)
[12:07]  * popey is making roast
[12:08]  * MooDoo suddenly dislikes popey
[12:09] <popey> chicken, potatoes, stuffing, carrots, peas, cauliflower cheese
[12:09] <popey> broccoli
[12:10] <AlanBell> anyone know how to find the position of the text cursor relative to either the screen or the window?
[12:11] <AlanBell> using dbus, at-spi or X stuff or anything else really
[12:12] <popey> the text cursor on a console?
[12:12] <AlanBell> on any window
[12:12] <AlanBell> the place at which typing will happen
[12:12] <popey> that sounds hard
[12:14] <AlanBell> or, the place at which a character has just been typed would do
[12:14] <popey> not sure that anything other than the app would know that
[12:14] <popey> and why would the app expose it
[12:14] <AlanBell> because of at-spi
[12:15] <AlanBell> in theory
[12:15] <Seeker`> hihi
[12:15] <AlanBell> high level requirement is the compiz zoom plugin that follows the mouse, I want it to follow the text cursor too when typing
[12:15] <popey> ah
[12:16] <popey> wonder if you could bodge using xdamage
[12:16] <popey> to see where the screen changed
[12:16] <popey> hard though given it changes all over the place
[12:16] <AlanBell> especially with compiz!
[12:16] <AlanBell> and libnotify
[12:17] <Seeker`> any idea how to make mythtv-server actually start at boot time? atm I have to "sudo service mythtv-backend start" every time I reboot. It is seriously damaging the girlfriend acceptance factor.
[12:17] <AlanBell> although it might  actually be nice to zoom over to a libnotify thing when it happens
[12:17] <ali1234> http://library.gnome.org/users/orca/unstable/preferences_magnifier.html.en
[12:17] <ali1234> this can do it
[12:17] <AlanBell> ali1234: yes, badly
[12:17] <AlanBell> haven't figured out how it does it
[12:18]  * AlanBell goes to read the orca source
[12:20] <penguin42> talking about orca, anyone on nn getting an error during login about orca.py 'local variable environ_message referenced before assignment' or is it just me?
[12:21] <brobostigon> would unity-2d do it,?
[12:25] <popey> brobostigon: i dont think unity 2d is finished
[12:25] <popey> brobostigon: whats wrong with unity?
[12:26] <brobostigon> popey: it isnt working properly,
[12:26] <popey> how?
[12:27] <popey> being natty it could just be broken temporarily
[12:27] <AlanBell> Seeker`: sudo update-rc.d mythtv-backend defaults
[12:27] <AlanBell> should do it I think
[12:27] <popey> .4
[12:27] <popey> bah
[12:27] <brobostigon> it pops in and out all the time, i cant launch apps, as the search doesnt work.
[12:27] <popey> it is supposed to pop in and out
[12:27] <popey> the search is currently broken
[12:28] <brobostigon> but not without me telling it to do it.
[12:28] <popey> it will if a window goes near it
[12:28] <AlanBell> brobostigon: it was doing that for me yesterday
[12:28] <popey> I'm sure it will be fixed soon eh gord ? :D
[12:28] <brobostigon> popey: there was no window near it, i had just logged in.
[12:28] <AlanBell> it was constantly flipping in and out as fast as it could. Fixed today with upgrade (although I didn't actually see unity in the packages to upgrade)
[12:29] <brobostigon> AlanBell: hmm, weird isnt it.
[12:29] <popey> fun
[12:29] <brobostigon> AlanBell: let me upgrade and see if it fixes.
[12:29] <ali1234> nah, fun is what is going to happen on release day when millions of noobs log in to it the first time
[12:31] <popey> :)
[12:32] <brobostigon> AlanBell: xulrunner is on the upgrade list, is that anything to dowith it?
[12:32] <ali1234> no
[12:33] <brobostigon> ok.
[12:33] <suprengr> hi folks.. just wondering: is there the daily build in a virtual machine thing available for 11.04 yet? [sorry, forgot the name of the app that was there for previous builds]
[12:35] <AlanBell> testdrive
[12:35] <AlanBell> no idea, I just use virtualbox
[12:36] <suprengr> AlanBell: thanks, I'll go check
[12:37] <Seeker`> AlanBell: thanks, I'll give it a go
[12:39] <brobostigon> ok, me logout, login, to see if unity fixed now.
[12:39]  * suprengr says bfn... switching to 10.10 to go test drive 'testdrive'
[12:42] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[12:43] <pr0ph3t> I am trying to use the vlc web interface to stream media, how can I access it from another computer?
[12:44] <pr0ph3t> I tried from my phone but I don't get audio or video
[12:44] <pr0ph3t> can I access the web interface from a computer?
[12:49]  * brobostigon gives up for a few hours.
[12:56] <brobostigon> unity-2d seems to be kinda working though.
[12:57] <brobostigon> although i can see a few missing bits.
[13:00] <brobostigon> unity-2d is my temporary new friend.
[13:01] <brobostigon> huge issue though, i cant get into any application menu's,
[13:56] <Seeker`> AlanBell: that didn't work :(
[13:57] <Seeker`> AlanBell: it uses upstart, don't know if that changes anything
[13:59] <AlanBell> upstart should run init scripts, I thought
[14:00] <Seeker`> apparently not
[14:01] <AlanBell> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html
[14:01] <Seeker`> it uses its own conf files, and symlinks the init.d file to its own script
[14:02] <Seeker`> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/573061/
[14:02] <Seeker`> thats the conf file that is there by default
[14:03] <Seeker`> but it doesn't seem to run when the computer stats
[14:03] <Seeker`> *starts
[14:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Were back. And its about time. - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/02/27/were-back-and-its-about-time/
[14:34]  * brobostigon return from a live usb of natty, to see if its the upgrade has caused breakage.
[14:35] <brobostigon> i think the upgrade has caused breakage, as unity works fine from live usb.
[14:43] <brobostigon-g1> weird. unity seems to work fine from live usb. so is it possible. the upgrade from maverick caused breakage?
[14:44] <gord> brobostigon-g1, would help if you described the problem
[14:45] <brobostigon-g1> gord the unity panel pops in and out. putting mouse on it does nothing.
[14:45] <gord> brobostigon-g1, do you mean the panel or the launcher
[14:46] <brobostigon-g1> the thing on the left.
[14:46] <gord> the launcher.
[14:46] <gord> known bug, wait for monday for a fix
[14:47] <brobostigon-g1> ok. thank you gord. :)
[14:51] <brobostigon-g1> gord may i ask where the problem lies. so i know what to look for.
[14:57]  * brobostigon returns
[15:13]  * popey tickles kazade 
[15:13] <kazade> afternoon popey
[15:14] <kazade> working on that Twitter client ;)
[15:17] <Baikonur> my twitter client doubles as a browser
[15:18] <AlanBell> kazade: is it a CLI one?
[15:19] <kazade> AlanBell, nope :)
[15:20] <AlanBell> gtk and better than gwibber?
[15:22] <kazade> AlanBell, indeed
[15:22] <BigRedS> Is it firefox?
[15:22] <kazade> :)
[15:23] <kazade> AlanBell, it's already better than Gwibber in that it doesn't take 30 seconds to load and eat masses of memory... on the other hand it doesn't yet display tweets, so swings and roundabouts
[15:23] <AlanBell> will it support the streaming API?
[15:26] <kazade> well... not immediately, but I can add that
[15:27] <kazade> at the moment the features list consists of 1.) Don't suck 2.) Support Twitter and Identica 3.) Integrate nicely into Ubuntu
[15:28] <AlanBell> I like it
[15:28] <AlanBell> streaming API is an important component of #1
[15:28] <kazade> yeah definitely
[15:28] <kazade> especially for searches
[15:28] <kazade> not so much for your home timeline
[15:29] <AlanBell> I think it is
[15:29] <kazade> heh, you must follow more people than me :)
[15:29] <AlanBell> I follow 541 people
[15:29] <AlanBell> and have 411 stalkers
[15:30] <kazade> AlanBell, yeah I follow < 100
[15:31] <kazade> ok, I'll make streaming a priority after actually getting it working :)
[15:31] <AlanBell> where is the code?
[15:32] <AlanBell> and is it python?
[15:33] <kazade> the code isn't open yet, still thinking about how to license it
[15:33] <kazade> and no, it's C++
[15:34]  * BigRedS didn't realise people were allowed to code in non-python these days :)
[15:35] <mgdm> You are if you want something to be even mildly fast
[15:35]  * mgdm runs
[15:35] <hamitron> :)
[15:35] <BigRedS> don't you work on php? :)
[15:35]  * BigRedS runs in the opposite direction
[15:36] <kazade> I decided against Python... because of Gwibber :)
[15:36] <mgdm> Yeah, but I do things that need to be fast in C ;)
[15:36] <kazade> (waits for "but you can write extensions in C")
[15:36] <kazade> :p
[15:37]  * hamitron prefers C to C++
[15:37]  * mgdm doesn't know C++
[15:37] <mgdm> and I intend to keep it that way
[15:37] <hamitron> can't get the hang of C++, learning atm ;)
[15:37] <kazade> I've been learning C++ for about 8 years
[15:37] <kazade> still learning
[15:37] <kazade> :)
[15:38] <hamitron> I should of said "learning the basics of C++"
[15:38] <hamitron> haha
[15:38] <BigRedS> I keep meaning to try some C flavour, but nobody trusts me with things that need to be fast, so theres no overriding need to
[15:39] <hamitron> I just struggle to motivate myself to learn anything other than C, when the performance of loads of these new languages is not so good
[15:39] <hamitron> I can see why I should, but just lazy
[15:40] <BigRedS> my issue is the other way round - Perl always does almost exactly what I expect it to do. I keep getting annoyed at having a language that does something differently and just start whatever it was again in perl
[15:40] <BigRedS> I just don't write stuff that's particularly better done in C
[15:40] <brobostigon> i stick with c an c++, because pretty much any system icome across it will be of use, more or less the same, unlike other languages. so i stick with c and c++.
[15:41] <kazade> I generally use Python for stuff that doesn't need to be fast, C++ for stuff that does
[15:42] <kazade> I want my Twitter client to be really lightweight, hence the Gtkmm over PyGtk
[15:42] <kazade> I use C# for some stuff though
[15:42] <kazade> I don't touch Java - horrible language :)
[15:42] <hamitron> it is a shame more developers don't want that light weight feature :)
[15:42] <brobostigon> perfect example, would you truly use python on a microcontroller where you need realtime speed, no. you would use c++.
[15:42] <kazade> hamitron, indeed
[15:43] <hamitron> it is that lack of "the need for efficiency" that is killing computing for me
[15:44] <hamitron> cba with all this memory use
[15:44] <hamitron> just frustrating
[15:44] <brobostigon> hamitron: hence i do stuff that requires that, iuse BeOS and or Haiku-OS.
[15:44] <kazade> hamitron, but if you say anything, you get the reply "But we have so much memory now"..
[15:44] <kazade> which is fine for a single app, or two apps
[15:45] <kazade> but if your whole desktop is designed around the fact you have a lot of memory/CPU..
[15:45] <kazade> not so good
[15:45] <hamitron> exactly
[15:45] <hamitron> brobostigon, I do intend to try it
[15:45] <hamitron> :)
[15:45] <hamitron> bbl
[15:45] <penguin42> and then you try and fit it on a mobile phone/tablet that is back at ~1GHz/512MB RAM
[15:45] <hamitron> gotta go on roof to changing some cables
[15:45] <hamitron> :/
[15:45] <hamitron> o/
[15:45] <brobostigon> design your OS to be as efficiant and stable and speedy as possible.
[15:45] <brobostigon> hamitron: :)
[15:46] <kazade> right, the accounts dialog is "done"
[15:46] <kazade> unless you want to remove accounts... that button doesn't work yet :p
[15:46] <brobostigon> to make the most of any resource it has, than waste it with unncesseties.
[15:48]  * brobostigon is slightly taken aback, by unity's workspace switcher.
[15:54] <suprengr> Anyone up for some virtualisation help?
[15:54] <suprengr> As in why ok in 10.10 but 10.04 wants ubuntu install cd in drive before install [for both virtualbox & kvm]?
[15:56] <suprengr> [& then ignores the fact the CD is in the drive]
[15:56] <suprengr> is this a bug to report or am I just being stooopid [again]?
[15:57] <penguin42> can you just say that again?
[15:57] <penguin42> how do you mean it wants the cd in drive before install?
[15:57] <suprengr> Exact msg... CD/DVD 'Ubuntu 10.04 LTS _Lucid Lynx_ - Release i386 (20100429)' is required
[15:57] <suprengr> Please insert the above CD/DVD into the drive '/cdrom/' to install software packages from the medium.
[15:57] <penguin42> when?
[15:58] <suprengr> more or less immediaely after 'install' request from either synaptic or software mng
[15:58] <penguin42> oh ok
[15:59] <penguin42> suprengr: Just go and edit the software sources or attack /etc/apt/sources.list with an editor; it's just still got the install CD in as a software source
[15:59] <suprengr> penguin42:  just going to look...
[16:02] <suprengr> penguin42: good shot!!!  installing now... thanks a mil :)
[16:04] <penguin42> no prob
[16:33] <bigcalm> My server's date/time is always around 4 seconds out when ntpdate runs in cron. What might that suggest?
[16:33] <penguin42> if you just run ntpdate normally is it ok?
[16:34] <bigcalm> root@revo:~# sh /etc/cron.daily/ntpdate
[16:34] <bigcalm> 27 Feb 16:34:16 ntpdate[1590]: step time server 91.189.94.4 offset 1.687821 sec
[16:34] <mgdm> bigcalm: Do not run ntpdate in cron!
[16:34] <mgdm> bigcalm: the proper solution is to run ntpd
[16:35] <bigcalm> mgdm: :(
[16:35] <bigcalm> Why should it make any difference?
[16:35] <mgdm> large jumps in the time have a tendency to make certain apps break
[16:35] <mgdm> Dovecot, notably
[16:35] <mgdm> ntpd adjust things by a few milliseconds here and there, more frequently
[16:36] <mgdm> "sudo apt-get install ntpd" does, if I recall correctly, set up everything for you with no intervention required
[16:36] <bigcalm> But why should the machine be out by 4 seconds every day?
[16:36] <mgdm> because the real-time clocks in PCs suck
[16:36] <zleap> hi
[16:36] <BigRedS> not normally by that much, though?
[16:36] <bigcalm> I've never had one suck that much daily
[16:37] <bigcalm> E: Couldn't find package ntpd
[16:37] <mgdm> try ntp
[16:37] <penguin42> That's a bit extreme, you could also see it happen if you are losing timer interrupts for some reason (especially if rebooting brings the time back in line)
[16:38] <bigcalm> Installed and running. Ho hum
[16:38] <mgdm> Virtual machines are really bad for it for various reasons
[16:39] <bigcalm> This is my revo, not a vm
[16:39] <mgdm> But I've seen bare metal be about 10 seconds off a day, so...
[16:42] <mgdm> Kraftwerk make excellent coding music
[16:42] <penguin42> I only really like 'The Model' by them
[16:42] <mgdm> I like quite a lot of their stuff, though they have a live album called Minimum-Maximum that is really good
[16:54] <jpds> mgdm: Agreed.
[17:17] <bigcalm> Less than 3 hours until Mark Steel, woop
[17:18] <brobostigon> i just noticed, the clock in unity, doesnt seem to have an option to show seconds.
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> < 3 hours until Top Gear :)
[17:18] <brobostigon> :)
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Options are for other people. Unity is designed FOR you
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so you can't change anything
[17:19] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmmm, ohwell.
[17:19] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: are you going to a Top Gear show?
[17:19] <ali1234> brobostigon: report a bug
[17:19] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no, Top Gear is on BBC2 tonight
[17:19] <ali1234> mark it "feature"
[17:19] <ali1234> or whatever they call it on LP
[17:19] <brobostigon> ali1234: i am going to see first, if it has already been done.
[17:19] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: then it doesn't really compair to my statement :P
[17:20] <MartijnVdS> hmm.. it's also Oscar night
[17:21] <MartijnVdS> too bad it's in the middle of the night and I have to work tomorrow
[17:21] <Pendulum> Oscar Night = pretty dress night \o/
[17:21] <brobostigon> it seems it hasnt been reported that i can find, can someone confirm for me, i want to avoid duplication. please.
[17:23] <jacobw> I'm sure time runs at double speed at the weekend :p
[17:24] <penguin42> yeh :-(
[17:24] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: especially if you run 20km in the morning :)
[17:25] <jacobw> 20k :o
[17:26] <brobostigon> ali1234: how do i mark it as feature?
[17:27] <ali1234> under importance probably
[17:28] <brobostigon> ali1234: idont see such an option inthe create bug screen.
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: well 18
[17:28] <ali1234> then you can't do it
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: 20 next week
[17:28] <brobostigon> ali1234: ohwell.
[17:28] <hamitron> MartijnVdS, any reason?
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: "20 van Alphen" (local 20km race) is next week
[17:29] <jacobw> You could deliver small items between towns going those distances :p
[17:29] <hamitron> gl :)
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: thanks :)
[17:30] <jacobw> Yeah :) good luck
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> I hope it doesn't rain + storm like today
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=214448722339818589968.00049d416c1713ba02fe4
[17:30] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/726102
[17:31] <gord> brobostigon, wrong package
[17:31] <gord> indicator-datetime
[17:31] <brobostigon> gord: cheers.
[17:31] <gord> i'm not 100% but i think you can actually set a format for indicator-datetime in gconf or gsettings or whatever its using
[17:32] <ali1234> gord: how does that fit together with indicator on gnome classic? the indicator-applet has the clock on natty?
[17:33] <brobostigon> gord: do you have  the power to change it, or do i delete it, and create it, again within indicator-datetime?
[17:33] <ali1234> brobostigon: you can change it
[17:33] <ali1234> don't need any special rights
[17:33] <gord> ali1234, i don't follow what your asking sorry
[17:33] <brobostigon> ali1234: ok. thank you.
[17:34] <ali1234> gord: well, on maverick gnome desktop, there is indicator applet (with the email/messaging icons) and that is a gnome panel applet. yeah?
[17:34] <penguin42> brobostigon: Click on the down arrow to the left of 'Unity'
[17:34] <ali1234> gord: there is also the clock, which is a different gnome panel applet
[17:34] <gord> ali1234, right, your asking if its using indicator-datetime now, i have no idea, have never logged in to the classic desktop in natty
[17:34] <ali1234> gord: so under natty gnome classic desktop, does the indicator applet also have a clock in it?
[17:34] <penguin42> oh, it's in the project Unity - hmm
[17:36] <ali1234> oh wow, i got a bug window from launchpad
[17:36] <brobostigon> penguin42: thank you.
[17:37] <ali1234> pink + red, never seen that before
[17:37] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-datetime/+bug/726102
[17:37] <ali1234> oh, maybe it's cos you updated the bug before me
[17:42] <brobostigon> ali1234: maybe.
[17:54] <jacobw> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc
[17:54] <jacobw> roflcopter
[18:21] <daubers> Evening
[18:23] <brobostigon> evening daubers
[18:39] <Myrtti> ho-hum
[18:40]  * daubers offers Myrtti an imperial guard infantryman to paint
[18:46]  * daubers turns up the extractor fan
[18:53] <CourageTheCoward> hello
[18:53] <AlanBell> o/ CourageTheCoward  who was phineas/ferb/bolt etc
[18:54] <CourageTheCoward> ok I admit it I am Phineas, Bolt etc
[18:54] <brobostigon> ohdear,
[18:54]  * Myrtti fetches popcorn
[18:56] <CourageTheCoward> Dont worry I'll behave
[18:57] <CourageTheCoward> besides I have returned from a long break
[18:59] <CourageTheCoward> arnt you glad about that
[19:04] <KrimZon> how do I actually get xorg to use a particular driver?
[19:05] <brobostigon> KrimZon: i do believe you need to specifiy it in xorg.conf.
[19:05] <KrimZon> my current xorg is pretty sparse, loading a module "glx" and a device with "fbdev"
[19:05] <KrimZon> I'm not entirely sure how to determine what names to use for anything else
[19:06] <brobostigon> me neither, popey helped me last time, when i hd problems on my thinkpad.
[19:09] <ikonia> the less you put in xorg.conf the better, as it leaves it to autodetection
[19:10] <ikonia> only put things in you want to force
[19:12] <KrimZon> it was going OK until I tried using official radeon drivers
[19:14] <penguin42> KrimZon: I think the driver is normally 'Radeon'
[19:15] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[19:16] <KrimZon> with a capital R?
[19:16] <KrimZon> the trouble is the signal is out of range currently
[19:16] <KrimZon> it probably just needs telling what refresh rate to use, but I've no idea what to put to do that
[19:16] <pr0ph3t> I noticed that when I startup ubuntu, the machine automatically runs fsck on two partitions, every boot. Is that really necessary? Can I not do fsck and speed up the boot time of several seconds?
[19:18] <zleap> i think it runs fsck after so many boots, if you leave it, it should complete than not ask again.  i would guess if it does complete and keeps doing it, there could be an issue somewhere
[19:20] <pr0ph3t> zleap, so it is not normal it does that, how do I check the last messages from boot? It doesn't show any fsck in dmesg
[19:20] <brobostigon> pr0ph3t: have a look at the last kernel log etc in /var(log
[19:20] <zleap> not sure
[19:21] <brobostigon> /var/log
[19:21] <pr0ph3t> brobostigon, syslog?
[19:22] <zleap> i think its /var/log/messages
[19:22] <zleap> or according to http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/RedHat/2007-10/msg00056.html it is
[19:22] <brobostigon> boot, dmesg, kern, syslog.
[19:24] <pr0ph3t> I did cat /var/log/log_files | grep fsck but nothing came up in any of those files you suggested brobostigon
[19:25] <CourageTheCoward> sorry about that IRC crasged
[19:25] <CourageTheCoward> crashed
[19:25] <brobostigon> pr0ph3t: no idea then, i am trying to build another natty bug report here.
[19:27] <CourageTheCoward> whats up with natty
[19:28] <brobostigon> CourageTheCoward: a possible xserver-xorg-video-intel bug.
[19:29] <CourageTheCoward> ahh a bit like I used to have
[19:30] <CourageTheCoward> but that might just be my crappy laptop
[19:31] <brobostigon> CourageTheCoward: its definatly in natty, as in maverick the issue doesnt exist,
[19:32] <CourageTheCoward> I installed ubuntu but all I get it a bouncing thing in status bar on boot, what went wrong
[19:34] <CourageTheCoward> anyone
[19:35] <Azelphur> popey: what do you use to generate that minecraft map of yours?
[19:35] <Myrtti> Azelphur: none at the moment
[19:35] <AlanBell> CourageTheCoward: there is the #ubuntu+1 channel for discussing issues with Natty
[19:35] <Myrtti> Azelphur: update on the server broke the map generation because the file save format changed
[19:35] <Azelphur> well, what did you use :P
[19:35] <Azelphur> oh, right
[19:35] <Myrtti> Azelphur: minecraft overviewer
[19:36] <Azelphur> also for bonus points, anything I can use to get server status (ie player list) out to a web server? :D
[19:36] <CourageTheCoward> but this pc is not Intel at all
[19:38] <CourageTheCoward> just to let you know
[19:43] <CourageTheCoward> its on Nvidia graphics with an amd professor
[19:44] <CourageTheCoward> does that make any change
[19:44] <jacobw> An AMD professor?
[19:44] <AlanBell> I believe nvidia is currently a bit broken on natty
[19:45] <CourageTheCoward> processor
[19:45] <CourageTheCoward> my bad predictave text does it again
[19:45] <daftykins> just been using IRC from my Pentium 1 :)
[19:45] <daftykins> http://i54.tinypic.com/118lmch.jpg
[19:46] <daftykins> so amusing going online with a win98 box, practically everything says "nope, not supported, go away!" :)
[19:46] <penguin42> daftykins: I've got a P90 running Debian - at 64MB RAM it's now minimum spec :-(
[19:46] <daftykins> awww
[19:47] <penguin42> 64MB and a P90 used to be luxury!
[19:47] <daftykins> indeed, i remember it well
[19:47] <CourageTheCoward> I have a 8mhz cpu in one of my macs
[19:47] <daftykins> it got dug out because my mum's trying to make my dad bin all the old computers
[19:47] <daftykins> he's got the 486 apricots ready to be thrown :(
[19:47] <penguin42> daftykins: The P90 is still my firewall through which this is going
[19:48] <daftykins> i'm tempted to build a little mATX system for router+firewall duty
[19:48] <penguin42> yeh
[19:48] <CourageTheCoward> apricots??
[19:49] <penguin42> daftykins: Well, yeh Apricots were a bit odd, although they did settle out by then
[19:49] <penguin42> CourageTheCoward: Apricot computers
[19:50] <daftykins> one had removable magnetic tape 'hard disks'
[19:50] <daftykins> about 20MB cartridges i think
[19:50] <daftykins> and one was floppy only
[19:50] <penguin42> daftykins: What was that? It sounds like a one-per-desk
[19:50] <penguin42> (or one-per-bin as I've heard them called) - oh or a QL
[19:50] <CourageTheCoward> the oldest pc I have must be an ibm
[19:51] <daftykins> QL?
[19:51] <penguin42> Sinclair QL
[19:51] <daftykins> nah that's the apricots i'm describing there
[19:51] <penguin42> oh, didn't realise any of the apricots had tape carts
[19:52] <daftykins> yeah
[19:52] <daftykins> it did break eventually
[19:52] <daftykins> i opened it up recently to see that it got replaced by a SCSI card and some ancient Maxtor SCSI HDD
[19:53] <daftykins> but now the CMOS battery has long since died, i couldn't get the settings right to make it boot again :D
[19:53] <CourageTheCoward> and all my old pcs work except for one
[19:53] <daftykins> its' BIOS had all manual configuration of serial ports in it etc. :S
[19:54] <DJones> daftykins: I'm surprised that sort of info isn't available somewhere online
[19:55] <daftykins> DJones: ah it was one of those 5 minute attempts
[19:55] <daftykins> but now we've got to fight to keep the poor little computers
[19:55] <daftykins> i think there's an amiga being threatened too
[19:55] <DJones> Heh
[19:56] <daftykins> though the amiga was a sad story
[19:56] <DJones> I mis my old Vic 20 & Apple ]['s
[19:56] <daftykins> oh, yes the Applie ][ is being threatened as well :(
[19:56] <daftykins> oops Apple
[19:56] <daftykins> out of any of them, the Apple should stay really
[19:57] <CourageTheCoward> I have an apple I
[19:58] <CourageTheCoward> still
[19:58] <suprengr> tick tock - tick tock - it's nearly Top Gear o'clock
[19:59] <CourageTheCoward> realy?
[19:59] <daftykins> well i for one can handle missing seeing adults act like children :>
[20:00] <suprengr> nah!  that's the best part ;)
[20:00] <brobostigon> another bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/726179
[20:16] <kevin_> Hey guys, anyone help me sort my wireless keyboard if they have spare time ?:)
[20:18] <DJones> kevin_: What sort of wireless keyboard is it, bluetooth or a usb dongle type
[20:18] <kevin_> DJones, usb dongle
[20:19] <DJones> kevin_: What sort of problems do you get, I haven't come across problems with that type, I thought the pc just saw them as a usb keyboard
[20:20] <kevin_> It was working when I first installed 10.10, however when I updated the system only the mouse works and the keyboard doesnt :)
[20:21] <kevin_> It work in bios etc, just as soon as 'grub' fires up it's gone
[20:22] <DJones> Is this your question on the forums from a couple of days ago? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1691913
[20:22] <kevin_> yeah :o)
[20:22] <kevin_> I've googled! gave up so ran to irc ;)
[20:23] <DJones> Give me a few minutes, I'll see if I can find anything out, but not having had problems, I think I'll struggle as well
[20:23] <kevin_> ok thanks for you time :)
[20:24] <DJones> kevin_: It might be worth asking in #ubuntu as well, with it being a busier channel there's more chance of a response
[20:25] <kevin_> ok :)
[20:29] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[20:29] <DJones> From what I can see looking at some bugs from December, that keyboard had to have a specific config/amendment to the kernel in debian, I wonder whether the latest kernel update has had it missed out in error
[20:30] <kevin_> So il need to wait for the next update to the kernel ?:)
[20:31] <DJones> I'm just looking to see if a bug has been filed in ubuntu about it
[20:32] <DJones> I can't see anything, I'd suggest filing a bug to make people aware of it
[20:33] <kevin_> Ok thanks for your help :)
[20:33] <DJones> Sorry I can't help anymore
[20:53] <BigRedS> I'm looking to package what is basically a Perl script and associated db config. I can't find much in the way of tutorials to cover exactly that, are there any oddities to bear in mind that the binary-focused howtos are likely to skip
[20:54] <BigRedS> ?
[21:16] <ali1234> exobuzz, Azelphur, others with joggler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtlBLXhg-YE&feature=related
[21:16] <ali1234> that's hildon desktop (N900 UI) running on meego on the joggler
[21:16] <Azelphur> that looks very spiffy.
[21:17] <daftykins> interesting
[21:19] <exobuzz> ali1234, yeh saw that the other day. looks nice and quick
[21:20] <gord> its fascinating how quickly i lost interest in my joggler once i realised i couldn't get gl on it
[21:21] <ali1234> you can now
[21:21] <ali1234> with the IEGD
[21:22] <ali1234> or so i'm told
[21:24] <daftykins> heh
[21:24] <daftykins> i was almost tempted to pick one up, but mains attachment put me off
[21:25] <ali1234> yeah
[21:25] <ali1234> well, there will be plenty of tablets this year
[21:25] <ali1234> get one of those instead
[21:40] <daftykins> ali1234: hehe, ah i don't see the point in tablets whatsoever. i'm keen to see the release of the samsung 9 series laptop though, looks very nice
[21:41] <ali1234> well the point of tablets pretty much is to be a web browser, video player, ebook reader all in one, without the additional bulk of keyboard
[21:44] <daftykins> yeah i just fail to have any involvement with those usage models i suppose
[21:45] <daftykins> plus most generally mean parting with money to do things the legal way :)
[21:46] <ali1234> i have one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycZUKTZczWI
[21:46] <ali1234> and it made me realise why a tablet is better
[21:46] <ali1234> it's just too heavy to use it like a tablet
[21:46] <ali1234> even though you can
[21:47] <ali1234> but after about 10 minutes you get arm ache
[21:47] <ali1234> because with the keyboard and hard drive and all the rest, it's about 4 times heavier than a tablet
[21:48] <daftykins> mmm
[21:49] <ali1234> i love how the cross-eyed guy completely messes up the demo in that video
[21:49] <daftykins> i was going to say his eyes are really nuts
[21:50] <ali1234> (screen goes upside down when he switches to tablet mode, and the autorotation doesn't work)
[21:50] <daftykins> still can't think (personally) of a need for such a device
[21:50] <daftykins> i suppose it's more to bring the computer to the lounge faring types
[21:50] <daftykins> versus us computer desk geek types :>
[21:51] <jacobw> how are you supposed to watch a video on a tablet?
[21:51] <ali1234> if you need to use a computing device while standing up, tablet is the best option
[21:52] <ali1234> jacobw: what do you mean? you just click on it and watch it? what's the problem?
[21:52] <jacobw> wouldn't the screen always be at the wrong angle
[21:52] <ali1234> um, no?
[21:53] <jacobw> well you either have it flat on your lap, the screen would be at the wrong angle
[21:53] <jacobw> or you hold it up, which would be tiring on your arms
[21:54] <popey> jacobw: i frequently watch video on a tablet
[21:55] <popey> and it is at the right angle and not tiring :)
[21:55] <ali1234> it's not tiring, because tablets are really light
[21:55] <jacobw> hmm, i can't say i've actually seen a tablet
[21:55] <ali1234> and besides, screens on them are not like bad old LCDs
[21:55] <popey> many have wallets which allow you to stand them up
[21:55] <jacobw> so, yeah, i'm probably wrong
[21:56] <mgdm> the case on the iPad is fairly nifty like that
[21:56] <ali1234> with the lenovo however, because it's really a netbook, it *is* tiring to use it like a tablet, which sucks
[21:56] <ali1234> great dev platform though
[21:57] <popey> http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MC361ZM/B?fnode=MTc0MjU2Mjc&mco=MTk1MTEyNzQ
[21:57] <popey> dunno if that link works..
[21:57] <popey> middle image shows it standing up
[21:57] <ali1234> also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPqWzpU35TM
[22:03] <safiyyah> hamitron, popey are you guys in?
[22:04] <popey> evening
[22:04] <safiyyah> been to hell and back with pc popey
[22:04] <popey> golly
[22:05] <safiyyah> last night i rebooted and i got the same black screen of death
[22:05] <safiyyah> anyway i actually put hardy back on, went back to extension 3 and havent had any problems
[22:05] <safiyyah> so now I have loaded meerkat but still on extension 3
[22:05] <safiyyah> I also had to tell grub which partition root was in
[22:05] <safiyyah> I used.... let me find the link
[22:08] <brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
[22:11] <safiyyah> took me a minute but here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[22:12] <safiyyah> and from what I have understood, the first thing is to update grub if I don't want a repeat
[22:12] <safiyyah> so popey still willing to help me with nvidia?
[22:13] <safiyyah> am just gonne update grub and come straight back
[22:13] <popey> safiyyah: I'm not able to help right now, sorry
[22:14] <safiyyah> popey: is there a time to come back?
[22:16] <safiyyah> Guys how do I change my machine name?
[22:17] <AlanBell> safiyyah: weekdays are busier
[22:17] <AlanBell> and during the day or early evening
[22:17] <zleap> safiyyah, i think its hostname
[22:17] <zleap> man hostname
[22:19] <safiyyah> thanx
[22:19] <popey> safiyyah: in the meantime I would highly recommend posting the details of the issue to askubuntu.com
[22:19] <popey> there are some great experts who monitor that site and post great responses
[22:20] <safiyyah> popey. I will not be attempting nvidia without help lol
[22:21] <popey> askubuntu is great
[22:21] <safiyyah> AlanBell,  well i only just got my machine running, so cant help my timing, I will come back.
[22:22] <jacobw> try in #ubuntu as wel
[22:24] <safiyyah> zleap, isnt it sudo hostname namewanted ? it didn't complain but my hostname remains
[22:25] <zleap> possibly,
[22:26] <zleap> hence i did man hostname as that brings up the manual
[22:28] <daftykins> safiyyah: hey, long time no see, how goes?
[22:31] <safiyyah> daftykins,  :) heeeyyyy
[22:31] <safiyyah> am having computer nightmares
[22:32] <daftykins> aww
[22:32] <safiyyah> zleap, i read man... may i should reboot?
[22:32] <safiyyah> maybe*
[22:32] <zleap> probably
[22:32] <safiyyah> brb
[22:32] <zleap> as it reads /etc/hostname when it boots
[22:40] <zleap> wb
[22:42] <safiyyah> right this is having a laugh at my expense lol
[22:48] <zleap> you ok
[22:50] <safiyyah> it isnt working
[22:50] <safiyyah> but its minor
[22:50] <safiyyah> irritating but minor
[22:50] <safiyyah> i will live with it for a few more days until i psyche myself up to fix it again
[22:52] <zleap> ok
[22:53] <zleap> there should be a gui tool to fix hostnames
[22:57] <popey> there is
[22:58] <daftykins> safiyyah loves CLI though
[22:59] <zleap> ah,
[22:59] <safiyyah> me love CLI?
[22:59] <safiyyah> lol
[22:59] <safiyyah> rofl, if i were good at it it would justify the love
[22:59] <safiyyah> but it a reminder of my incompetence
[22:59] <safiyyah> lol
[23:02] <daftykins> aww
[23:03] <daftykins> i love the coarseness of command line use, either you're wrong or you're right :)
[23:03] <hamitron> CLI?
[23:03] <Cepheus> command line interface
[23:04] <hamitron> k
[23:26] <exobuzz> gord, linux on joggler has gl/es, opengl (although not everything runs but much does) and vaapi for hardware video decoding
[23:54] <Azelphur> Myrtti: overviewer from git works
[23:54] <Azelphur> Myrtti: http://game.azelphur.com/custom/mcmap/ :D
[23:54] <ali1234> that's a small server
[23:55] <Azelphur> ali1234: it's a new server?
[23:55] <ali1234> i guess you just started it up to test the map generator?
[23:55] <Azelphur> no, I started it up and got the map generator running
[23:55] <Azelphur> it's a new thing for my gaming community, got a lot of requests
[23:55] <Azelphur> picked up minecraft a couple of days ago and got the basics, so now I'm setting up a public server
[23:56] <ali1234> cool
[23:56] <Azelphur> setting it up properly, it isn't publicly announced yet
[23:56] <Azelphur> but I've got IRC relay, overviewer, and server status on the website all ready to go
[23:59] <ali1234> Azelphur: see #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
[23:59] <Azelphur> :)
[23:59] <Azelphur> yea I know about the uuk minecraft :p