[14:06] <lurking2day> Anybody home?
[14:10] <AlanBell> lurking2day: hi
[14:12] <lurking2day> Just a moment, please
[14:12] <lurking2day> You created Faisal?
[14:14] <AlanBell> yes
[14:16] <lurking2day> I was a staff sw engineer who became Faisal (motor skills/dexterity). I should be able to help.
[14:17] <AlanBell> we are working on a series of persona documents
[14:21] <lurking2day> and... ?
[14:23] <lurking2day> Do you need a Faisal at the moment?
[14:34] <lurking2day> Alan: (Or anyone else): If this is a bad time, I can come back. 
[14:36] <lurking2day> If you're looking for a top notch 'Faisal' wrt motor skills, I'm offering to help.
[15:02] <AlanBell> sorry, in the middle of something else at the moment
[15:07] <charlie-tca> images are all broken at the present time, installations fail
[20:15] <charlie-tca> We will be testing the screen-reader installation for natty alpha3 this week
[21:22] <erkan^> hajour, do you use "Maginifiy"?
[21:23] <hajour> hai erkan^ :0
[21:23] <erkan^> hi hajour 
[21:23] <hajour> :)
[21:23] <Pendulum> hi hajour, erkan^ :)
[21:23] <Pendulum> (i'm only somewhat here, but I made it to my hotel at least!)
[21:23] <hajour> hai Pendulum :)
[21:23] <erkan^> and hi Pendulum (-:
[21:23] <erkan^> do you understand about my question, hajour  ?
[21:24] <erkan^> AlanBell: You would have to be able to get compiz the x,y coords of the cursor. You could do this possibly using dbus or a custom lib but it would require some programming
[21:24] <erkan^> about EZOOM
[21:24] <hajour> Maginifiy = vergrootglas?
[21:25] <hajour> you are on a congress or something Pendulum ?
[21:26] <maco> hajour: she's traveling to visit a special doctor
[21:26] <erkan^> that is right, hajour 
[21:26] <hajour> a ok maco
[21:26] <Pendulum> hajour: no, I see a specialist for Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and she's 6 hours away from home so drove down today, see her tomorrow, and drive back home tomorrow afternoon
[21:26] <hajour> ok than i right understand it erkan^ 
[21:26] <Pendulum> and tonight I see maco! :D
[21:27] <maco> yay!
[21:27] <erkan^> yes
[21:27] <erkan^> but do you use a maginifiy, hajour ?
[21:27] <hajour> nice Pendulum  and maco 
[21:27] <hajour> if it is possibly yes then i  do erkan^ 
[21:27] <erkan^> I am tried with ZoomText, because it is perhaps for friends and colleagues for me interesse in Ubuntu when it is succesfull with ZoomText. They have 
[21:27] <hajour> i will not be long here today
[21:28] <erkan^> they always are depends --> ZoomText
[21:28] <hajour> undi and i do shift watch
[21:28] <hajour> because my youngest daughter is not very well
[21:29] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: I sent you a blog page
[21:29] <erkan^> hajour: http://forum.compiz.org/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=33689 --> I have wroten
[21:29] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I saw. I'll probably not get it up until Wednesday, but I did look at it
[21:29] <charlie-tca> Let me know if it works for you
[21:29] <hajour> i am still awake from yesterday 11:00 its now here 22:29 evening
[21:29] <charlie-tca> I thought you went to sleep last nite?
[21:30] <hajour> read above
[21:30] <erkan^> Al two days I tried to solve a problem, but it is not success )-; 
[21:31] <hajour> she felt almost had hurt in the hart airier
[21:31] <hajour> low blood pressure
[21:31] <hajour> undi worked today
[21:32] <charlie-tca> Sorry to hear that, hajour 
[21:32] <hajour> but not had sleep last night
[21:32] <hajour> so he sleep now
[21:32] <charlie-tca> My 35 years old nephew had a heart attack yesterday
[21:32] <hajour> and he take over in about 2 hoours from now
[21:32] <hajour> she is 10
[21:33] <charlie-tca> That is very hard for you, then
[21:33] <hajour> i hope he is alright you nephew
[21:33] <hajour> i worry
[21:34] <hajour> she ia alreay so tiny and skinny
[21:34] <hajour> is already
[21:34] <hajour> she is been here in llubuntu channel
[21:35] <hajour> she has also a factoid by the bot dragon eyes
[21:36] <hajour> i think it will come alright again
[21:36] <hajour> she is a fighter
[21:36] <charlie-tca> hajour: he is older, and will probably be fine. Your daughter is very young. 
[21:36] <hajour> she is like me
[21:36] <charlie-tca> I hope she is going to be okay
[21:37] <hajour> yes i think she will ok againand over 10  years she have partner o i now already have sorry fot that partner
[21:38] <hajour> she have a strong will
[21:38] <hajour> she looks like me when i was that age
[21:39] <charlie-tca> A strong will helps. That gives strength
[21:39] <hajour> yes
[21:39] <hajour> and she have more confidence then me
[21:40] <hajour> hai MichelleQ :)
[21:41] <hajour> how you call that in english?
[21:41] <hajour> here they say
[21:42] <hajour> ze is een pittige meid
[21:42] <charlie-tca> she is one tough little girl
[21:43] <hajour> yes
[21:43] <charlie-tca> or "she is one strong girl", either way
[21:44] <hajour> she looks sometimes hard outside but is very sensitive in many things
[21:45] <hajour> she often makes me smile
[21:46] <hajour> she was angry she was not old enough to come on ubuntu
[21:46] <hajour> because she want to learn program to
[21:47] <hajour> here
[21:47] <hajour> and help
[21:47] <hajour> my 11 year daughter also 
[21:47] <hajour> then i say just have patience
[21:48] <Pendulum> hajour: do they know english? because there's a book called Snake Wrangling for Kids that they might be able to use to learn to program
[21:48] <maco> i gave a pdf of that to my little cousins, along with How to Think Like a Computer Scientist:  Learning With Python...
[21:48] <Pendulum> heck, I like Snake Wrangling for kids
[21:48] <erkan^>  niemand wilt mijn probleem oplossen )-; . hier was rustig, later zei ik hoi hajour en over vergrootglasprogramma gevraagd, later werd opeens druk )-:
[21:48] <hajour> she have use google translate
[21:48] <maco> the 11 year old has informed "*scoff* i already know what a function is" since she actually read them!
[21:49] <Pendulum> I spent a good 2 hours playing with it one day because it was fun!
[21:49] <hajour> when she where here in the lubuntu channel
[21:49] <Pendulum> *nods*
[21:49] <hajour> sorry erkan^ 
[21:49]  * erkan^ loopt het weg en duikt in de kleedkast )-:
[21:50] <hajour> erkan^, have the feeling nobody wants to solve his problem
[21:50] <erkan^> no indeed )-:
[21:51] <erkan^> http://www.aisquared.com/ --> 500 dollar :S
[21:51] <hajour> my daughter just is watching now often english movie s with dutch subtitles
[21:52] <erkan^> cool, hajour :-D
[21:52] <hajour> she probably have dyslectic to but she always search to a solution
[21:52] <charlie-tca> It is very hard to resolve the issues with accessibility applications. 
[21:52] <hajour> erkan^, ^
[21:53] <charlie-tca> erkan^ is trying to use the magnifier application. It works, but has bugs in it. 
[21:53] <hajour> line above is about my 10 year old
[21:53] <erkan^> but happy is important. i hope that you feel happy and children too, hajour 
[21:53] <charlie-tca> the compiz magnifier works better, but not when typing
[21:53] <hajour> my 11 year old have diagnostic dyslectic
[21:54] <hajour> mm ok charlie-tca 
[21:54] <erkan^> that is right, charlie-tca 
[21:54] <charlie-tca> We keep looking for solutions, but we have not found one yet for that problem
[21:55] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: I think I found all the bits to write a compiz text tracking zoom
[21:55] <erkan^> Compiz Magnifier is little same --> http://www.aisquared.com/ ... charlie-tca 
[21:56] <AlanBell> I read the orca source which shows how it gets the x,y of the text cursor when in a gnome text object
[21:56] <hajour> Pendulum, i deliver reinforcement for the women her XD
[21:56] <charlie-tca> erkan^: AlanBell is trying to fix the compiz magnifier so it will work. It just takes us all time to make everything work or find solutions.
[21:56] <erkan^> really???
[21:56] <charlie-tca> great! I got in another fight over getting Onboard in the menu. 
[21:57] <charlie-tca> It seems it is supposedly very easy for those who need it to just start it without a menu
[21:57] <erkan^> is that difficult bugs, charlie-tca ?
[21:57] <charlie-tca> yup
[21:57] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: who with?
[21:57] <charlie-tca> Got to try and get able-bodied people to understand the problems.
[21:58] <charlie-tca> bug 275450
[21:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 275450 in onboard "menu items missing on fresh install of Ubuntu" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275450
[21:58] <charlie-tca> lol
[21:59] <hajour> bug 1
[21:59] <ubot2> hajour: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Not reporting large bug)
[21:59] <charlie-tca> Just got to keep trying, right?
[21:59] <hajour> :P
[21:59] <hajour> sorry could not let it to do it
[22:00] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I'm adding in support on that bug
[22:01] <charlie-tca> I got the Onboard developer in on it, too
[22:01] <charlie-tca> We haven't given up, either.
[22:01] <Pendulum> I know
[22:02] <hajour> never give up 
[22:02] <hajour> well sometimes
[22:02] <hajour> but i stand fast up again
[22:02] <charlie-tca> It just frustrates me. If it is easy to make it work, we shouldn't need a menu for anything. Every application should be just as easy to make work.
[22:03] <Pendulum> tbh, there used to be a lot of accessibility stuff that was easier to start in older versions of Ubuntu than it is now :-/
[22:03] <hajour> UndiFineD,  and i want speechprogram also so easy as possible 
[22:03] <charlie-tca> yes, but the answers from the devs never change to match the reality
[22:04] <Pendulum> I remeber in Feisty where it was substantially easier to use GUIs for screen mag and I think text-to-speech
[22:04] <Pendulum> (I remember playing around with it once and back in those days I used screen magnification a lot more than I do now)
[22:05] <charlie-tca> yes, but the menu was "cluttered" then, since you actually had an accessibility menu
[22:05] <hajour> its easy to check if it is difficult UndiFineD  just ask me to try .i am a newbie :P
[22:06] <Pendulum> I still don't know how to do GUI screen mag in current Ubuntu installs
[22:06] <hajour> define GUI screen ?
[22:06] <Pendulum> GUI = graphical user interface (so not using command line)
[22:07] <Pendulum> screen mag = screen magnification
[22:07] <maco> charlie-tca: gdm lacks on onscreen kbd too? how do you login if...
[22:07] <maco> i think kdm just got one recently
[22:08] <charlie-tca> gdm uses Onboard, but it won't let you enter the password
[22:08] <charlie-tca> The enter password option locks Onboard out
[22:08] <maco> that's stupid
[22:08] <charlie-tca> heh, yup
[22:08] <charlie-tca> But I can't just say that to them
[22:08] <charlie-tca> lol
[22:08] <charlie-tca> I got another bug report for that too
[22:09] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: forget the accessibility argument
[22:09] <AlanBell> think "tablet computer"
[22:09] <charlie-tca> Maybe that will work. I can try it
[22:09] <TheMuso> I wonder if gdm obeys the gconf key that tells gksu not to grab the keyboard... Probably not.
[22:10] <charlie-tca> I keep thinking accessibility is IMPORTANT. 
[22:10] <AlanBell> it is, but sometimes you  have to explain why it is important to *everyone*
[22:11] <AlanBell> and pointing out that it kinda helps when you don't have a keyboard on a tablet computer gets a wider spectrum of users interested in it being fixed
[22:12] <charlie-tca> I am trying... I got in trouble for telling someone they weren't smart enough to bother with a bug report; I won't do that again
[22:12] <Pendulum> have added a paragraph about tablets onto my comment
[22:13] <hajour> TheMuso,  have you read the mail already from speechcontrol?
[22:13] <TheMuso> hajour: Unless there is a specific reason to read all such mails, I tend to skim ovr them.
[22:13] <charlie-tca> Thank you, Pendulum 
[22:13] <charlie-tca> Apparently, I have to be careful of what wording I use.
[22:14] <hajour> well TheMuso  in the mail stands speechcontrol is go upstream
[22:14] <hajour> and have new channels TheMuso 
[22:14] <TheMuso> hajour: I saw.
[22:15] <hajour> ok jus wanted to know you was informed TheMuso :)
[22:15] <hajour> just
[22:17] <hajour> that's all
[22:19] <hajour> sorry to say but i find it better speechcontrol is go this way. i go watch this week more to it also. i already said i want it easy to install or together with ubuntu program mmm hard to explain in english
[22:20] <maco> hajour: do you mean you want to make it part of the default install?
[22:20] <hajour> most read /write programs you need to read much for to install it
[22:20] <hajour> what most people who need it simple not are able to
[22:20] <hajour> yes maco
[22:21] <hajour> i think it is not good to make a program what need to make it accessible is self not accessible to install
[22:23] <hajour> it seams logical to me
[22:24] <hajour> and many programs are like that
[22:24] <hajour> thats why i almost always need help with install things on the pc
[22:25] <Pendulum> i'm heading out. catch y'all later. maco, we should be there in 40-50 min
[22:25] <hajour> and thats is quiet frustrating because i like to do that myself without help needed
[22:26] <hajour> and thank you maco  for to explain what i meant
[22:33] <charlie-tca> TheMuso is probably thinking it is nice to have other people trying to help with these accessibility issues
[22:33] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: Hell yeah.
[22:33] <Cheri703> charlie-tca: I was just catching up on my scrollback: the onboard not being in a menu and not being able to put in passwords have bugged me for a long time and I don't *need* them
[22:33] <charlie-tca> I know that one, Cheri703 
[22:34] <charlie-tca> TheMuso: anything I can help with... just let me know
[22:34] <Cheri703> TheMuso: I've been trying to talk my brother into helping with some of the accessibility programming and such, but he's SUPER busy and has a 6 month old, so not likely any time soon, but he's hard of hearing and is interested in helping if his life calms down a bit
[22:34] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: thanks. Unity a11y stuff is still being worked on, so I will likely be letting you know once thats ready for wider testing.
[22:35] <TheMuso> Cheri703: Thats great to hear.
[22:35] <Cheri703> TheMuso: ditto what charlie-tca said, I'm not able to program, but I can test like a pro ;)
[22:35] <charlie-tca> That would be good. I keep testing it, too
[22:35] <charlie-tca> I am not any good as a programmer. I just do other things to try and help