[01:04] <IdleOne> KB1JWQ: you around?
[01:05] <IdleOne> MadHaTTer_777 part messages gives me pause
[01:07]  * IdleOne waves to the log readers
[01:08] <marienz> mmm?
[01:08] <IdleOne> I just wanted to show kb1 something, I sent a msg
[01:08]  * marienz wanders off again then
[01:08] <IdleOne> :)
[01:49] <MadHaTTer_000> hey ikonia are you around?
[01:51] <MadHaTTer_000> any other ops in here that could help me out with a somewhat unrelated question?
[01:52] <MadHaTTer_000> i want to know how to get unbanned (z-lined) from a server ive never been to before without waiting a week or more on the email
[01:54] <MadHaTTer_000> it says i match a spammer pattern?
[01:54] <MadHaTTer_000> anyone?
[02:11] <IdleOne> Not that it has anything to do with us or this server but I would say go to the other networks website and contact them about it.
[02:12] <MadHaTTer_000> :( i was trying to avoid a week wait
[02:13] <IdleOne> Seriously, tell me how you expect anyone from freenode to remove a ban on another network?
[02:13] <IdleOne> How can anybody on this network speed that process up?
[02:14] <IdleOne> MadHaTTer_000: I am not inclined to remove the ban in #ubuntu. Please come back in about 8-10 hours when ikonia isd normally active.
[02:14] <IdleOne> is*
[02:14] <rww> ... that's a lot of ban tracker records for two days o.O
[02:15] <MadHaTTer_000> go there and talk to a op
[02:15] <MadHaTTer_000> what?
[02:15] <IdleOne> MadHaTTer_000: go where? what?
[02:16] <MadHaTTer_000> irc.axenet.org
[02:16] <IdleOne> yeah, email them.
[02:16] <MadHaTTer_000> and you asked me how anyone could help me
[02:16] <rww> MadHaTTer_000: This has nothing to do with us. Please leave the channel and come back when ikonia's around, which he currently is not.
[02:16] <IdleOne> anything you need from us that concerns your bans in #ubuntu?
[02:16] <MadHaTTer_000> ok rww
[02:17] <MadHaTTer_000> no im still waiting on ikonia for the ubuntu ban
[02:17] <IdleOne> you can return in 8 to 10 hours
[02:17] <IdleOne> Please /part this channel.
[02:17] <IdleOne> that part msg makes me angry
[02:18] <IdleOne> so many different reasons to not like it
[02:18] <highvoltage> Please don't, IdleOne
[02:18] <IdleOne> don't what?
[02:19] <highvoltage> get angry. anger is the path to the dark side, it leads to hate. hate leads to suffering.
[02:19] <IdleOne> I'm also watching Revenge of the Sith
[02:19] <IdleOne> :P
[02:20] <highvoltage> I know, I sense the force is strong in you
[02:20] <highvoltage> (I didn't really know that, before I start sounding like a crazy person)
[02:21] <IdleOne> to late
[02:21] <IdleOne> :)
[02:21] <highvoltage> heh
[02:23] <rww> Heh. They were simultaneously asking for help with their z-line issue in #ubuntu-server :\
[02:44] <rww> topyli: Somewhat tardy, but here's a first attempt: "If you choose to use an Ubuntu Member cloak, your actions on freenode represent and reflect on Ubuntu. We expect cloaked members to follow the [[http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct|Code of Conduct]], [[http://freenode.net/policy.shtml|network policies]], and channel rules."
[03:20] <bazhang> +1
[03:22] <bazhang> anyone used the mute -t600 with xchat's chanserv.py?
[03:28] <IdleOne> I haven't in a while
[03:28] <IdleOne> why?
[03:29] <bazhang> did it work? I tested it on myself and it gave me ops after ten minutes
[03:29] <IdleOne> it worked when I tested it.
[03:29] <bazhang> on a non-you user then
[03:30] <IdleOne> test it on me
[03:30] <IdleOne> oh, right
[03:30] <IdleOne> you can't in her
[03:30] <IdleOne> here
[03:31] <IdleOne> bazhang: yes, on a non-me user hehe
[03:31] <bazhang> IdleOne, thanks :)
[03:31] <IdleOne> you want to test to make sure?
[03:32] <bazhang> so /cs mute -t600 nick   then?
[03:32] <IdleOne> umm, yes
[03:32] <bazhang> cool thanks
[03:33] <IdleOne> bazhang: only thing is if the user parts the channel before the elapsed time it will op you anyway.
[03:33] <IdleOne> it doesn't currently track the user iirc
[03:34] <IdleOne> it will op you anyway and then give you an error msg*
[03:34] <IdleOne> irssi's autobleh does that better
[03:49] <bazhang> nice
[03:50] <IdleOne> is it?
[03:51] <IdleOne> just testing
[03:51] <rww> rebellion!
[03:51] <IdleOne> hmm
[03:51] <IdleOne> it op'ed me but didn't remove the +q
[04:05] <rww> I think PerfM's done in -ot. He's been tiptoeing around the line since he found his way there, and he's basically using the place as a substitude #defocus.
[04:05] <rww> substitute **
[04:06] <IdleOne> fine by me, surprised it took you so long
[04:10] <rww> ubottu: tell pukeyhonky about tmi
[04:11] <elky> rww, perfm is a he?
[04:12]  * rww throws another dime in the gender-pronoun-fail box
[04:12] <rww> I have no idea.
[04:13] <elky> Heh, just judging by defocus talk I saw last week
[04:14] <elky> either a she, or a guy with a boyfriend who doesn't challenge feminine pronouns.
[04:15] <elky> given this is irc, either is equally likely :(
[04:15] <rww> On the Internet, nobody knows you're a goldfish.
[04:36]  * Jordan_U wonders if there is a general consensus within the Ubuntu community about installing ruby stuffs via rvm / gems vs via apt.
[04:48] <tonyyarusso> Jordan_U: Yes.  The consensus is "You should be installing with apt, but nothing freaking works if you do because ruby developers are all about new shinies, so you have to use gems to do anything.  Meanwhile, give up and just use Python."
[04:57] <bazhang> so anyone in the secret channel yet?
[04:58] <rww> Yes.
[04:59] <Jordan_U> Ooh, didn't realize a name had been decided.
[05:00] <tonyyarusso> #ubuntu-ops-lol-i-cant-believe-were-having-this-debate-yet-again ?
[05:00] <rww> 1) /msg chanserv invite #ubuntu-ops-team 2) /join #ubuntu-ops-team 3) /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-ops-team yournickhere 4) /mode #ubuntu-ops-team +I-o $a:yournickservaccountnamehere yournickhere
[05:00] <bazhang> -ops-team
[05:02] <rww> steps (3) and (4) stop you from having to do step (1) in future ;)
[05:12] <IdleOne> rww: did you receive a msg from perfm?
[05:12] <rww> no
[05:12] <IdleOne> they are asking me for a second chance in -ot
[05:12] <IdleOne> want me to redirect to you or here?
[05:12] <rww> here
[05:13] <IdleOne> PerfM: thank you for joining. I'll leave this to rww now.
[05:13] <PerfM> Rww: My favorite bro in this whole entire ....zone
[05:14] <PerfM> omg, wait. Does this mean defocus has a similar channel?
[05:14] <PerfM> SWEET!
[05:14] <PerfM> anyways, continuing on...
[05:14] <rww> PerfM: Hi. You're quieted on #ubuntu-offtopic because you apparently think that #ubuntu-offtopic is equivalent to a #defocus alternative that you're able to speak in. This is not the case.
[05:15] <PerfM> I'm not allowed to talk in it?
[05:16] <rww> Not right now in #ubuntu-offtopic, you're not. I muted you for using the term "fag" after you'd been annoying that channel for literally hours.
[05:16]  * PerfM is confused.
[05:16] <rww> ah, good, they gave you voice back in #defocus, I see.
[05:16] <rww> You can go chat in there instead.
[05:17] <PerfM> As I was saying......woah, one not cool. i never annoy people I meerly just get on their nerves. two I honestly didnt know I would get quieted for saying "fag" so for that I am sorry.
[05:17] <PerfM> Rww: total unbro thing to say
[05:18] <rww> Yes, you get on peoples' nerves constantly, which is against our IRC Guidelines. You skirt the line as far as language and subject goes. I don't think #ubuntu-offtopic is a good fit for you.
[05:18] <PerfM> Lol
[05:18]  * PerfM facepalms
[05:19] <PerfM> I deft like you
[05:19] <PerfM> anyways. I'm off
[05:32] <rww> nhandler: I'm curious: is sending DCC exploits grounds for removing cloaks?
[05:33] <nhandler> rww: Who and where?
[05:33] <rww> nhandler: y007ghg7, formerly in #ubuntu
[05:34] <rww> (the second one wasn't cloaked)
[05:35] <nhandler> We handle all of these sorts of things on a case-by-case basis. So while I can't speak in any specifics for this particular case, it is definitely a possibility that a user would have an unaffiliated cloak removed for a DCC exploit
[05:36] <rww> Should I be pointing cases of that out to staff then, or do y'all keep an eye on it yourselves?
[05:38] <nhandler> rww: I think for the most part, we are pretty good about that. Although, we might miss some of them during the late hours of the evening or at some points on the weekend. If a user is a repeat-offender, definitely poke staff. For a one-time thing, you can poke staff at your discretion (if you do, try to do it as close to the incident as possible)
[05:40] <IdleOne> nhandler: again in #u
[05:42] <nhandler> Thanks
[05:43] <rww> r000t just copypasted it in #debian repeatedly *facepalm*
[07:20] <bazhang> MadHaTTer_000, hi
[07:21] <MadHaTTer_000> hello just stoping in to see if ikonia was around yet
[07:21] <bazhang> MadHaTTer_000, was there an issue someone else could handle?
[07:22] <MadHaTTer_000> i dont belive so i stoped in earlier and someone told me i had to wait for ikonia to remove my ban as that is who placed it
[07:23] <bazhang> MadHaTTer_000, please have a read of the code of conduct and the channel guidelines, if you have a moment
[07:23] <bazhang> !codeofconduct
[07:23] <MadHaTTer_000> what for?
[07:23] <bazhang> !guidelines
[07:24] <bazhang> MadHaTTer_000, so that you understand what using the ubuntu channels entails
[07:24] <MadHaTTer_000> i belive ikonia has already gone over them with me and i really dont have the time to read rules right now but thanks
[07:25] <bazhang> MadHaTTer_000, okay. but you will certainly be asked to read them again and agree to abide by them before your ban is lifted, whenever that may be.
[07:26] <MadHaTTer_000> i will abide by them however i dont have the time to read them
[07:26] <bazhang> MadHaTTer_000, if you must speak only with ikonia then perhaps you can return some hours hence to do so, as he is not present now.
[07:26] <MadHaTTer_000> that was the plan
[07:26] <MadHaTTer_000> have a good one
[07:27] <bazhang> say 6-8 hours from now
[07:27] <MadHaTTer_000> more like 1-2
[07:27] <MadHaTTer_000> i dont plan on being up at 5am
[07:28] <MadHaTTer_000> bye baz
[07:28] <bazhang> up to you, I'd sincerely doubt he is here in 1-2 hours though.
[07:28] <MadHaTTer_000> ill just stop in quickly and check otherwise it will be tomarrow
[07:30] <jussi> Perhaps a change of part message would help his cause.
[08:26] <Tm_T> that too
[08:27] <Tm_T> also he doesn't have to join this channel to find out if ikonia is around
[10:04] <topyli> thesarge is about to "suspend my op", he informed me about this in pm
[10:05] <topyli> doesn't like being asked not to swear in -ot
[10:05] <ikonia> nope
[10:06] <ikonia> constant pain
[10:06] <ikonia> I requested for him to be removed from -server as he's continued with this language in there
[10:58] <jussi> Just a reminder to see the -irc list and you all should be able to join the channel.
[11:09] <MadHaTTer_000> hey eveybody im back
[11:10] <MadHaTTer_000> so how about it ikonia?
[11:10] <ikonia> what ?
[11:11] <ikonia> ah, sorry, just seen you ask in #ubuntu-server
[11:11] <ikonia> sorry, missed that
[11:11] <MadHaTTer_000> any chance youĺl unbann me from #ubuntu?
[11:11] <ikonia> I'm not going to unban you from ubuntu as you persist with these minor swearing issues, and if you continue , I'll request you get banned from #ubuntu-server
[11:11] <ikonia> I've spoken to you multiple times about fking sht and things like that and you persist
[11:11] <ikonia> it's still even in your /part message as another operator pointed out
[11:12] <ikonia> until you can show some sort of self control, the ban can stay
[11:12] <MadHaTTer_000> part?
[11:13] <ikonia> when you quit the channel
[11:13] <ikonia> the message when you quit the channel
[11:13] <MadHaTTer_000> as previously stated i will behave in the ubuntu room and try not to use txt type
[11:13] <MadHaTTer_000> how do you change it?\
[11:13] <ikonia> ok, as perviously stated, you still are and it is still in your /part message
[11:14] <ikonia> you obviously know how to change your message as you put the message in
[11:14] <MadHaTTer_000> im guessing i put it in months ago
[11:15] <MadHaTTer_000> ansd remember i dont see my own exit message as i am gone when it displays so i had no idea
[11:15] <ikonia> then I suggest you do the same resarch in how to put it in as how to remove it
[11:15] <MadHaTTer_000> nm found it
[11:16] <MadHaTTer_000> there its changed
[11:16] <ikonia> ok, well lets see if you can control yourself for a while longer before reviewing the ban
[11:17] <MadHaTTer_000> how longs a little longer as i was banned quite a while back
[11:17] <ikonia> yes, and you've not changed your behaviour since that
[11:18] <MadHaTTer_000> hows that?
[11:18] <ikonia> you ended up getting banned from multiple channels because you wouldn't change so lets leave it another week
[11:18] <MadHaTTer_000> i did?
[11:18] <ikonia> if you can control your language for a week while in #ubuntu-server
[11:18] <MadHaTTer_000> what channels?
[11:18] <ikonia> MadHaTTer_000: you know you did, and you tried to ban dodge by changing your nicks
[11:18] <ikonia> please don't play dumb
[11:19] <MadHaTTer_000> im not im curious and i wasnt dodging by changing my nicks
[11:19] <ikonia> MadHaTTer_000: you know you where, we spoke to you about it
[11:19] <ikonia> you changed your nicknames and IP addresses
[11:20] <ikonia> tell you what, just control your language in #ubuntu-server, come back in a week and we'll look at removing the #ubuntu ban
[11:20] <MadHaTTer_000> my chat client gives me default nicks and it doesnt always log me out when i leave and come back so i have to use a dif nick otherwise it doesnt let me back on as the nicks already in use
[11:21] <MadHaTTer_000> the ip addresses was me changing modems due to the weather conditions wherre i live
[11:21] <MadHaTTer_000> i have 3-4 modems
[11:21] <ikonia> well, I've explained the terms of getting your ban removed
[11:21] <ikonia> come back in a week if you can control your language, we'll look at removing the ban
[11:21] <MadHaTTer_000> another week...???
[11:21] <ikonia> yes
[11:21] <MadHaTTer_000> why so long?
[11:21] <ikonia> because you keep breaking the rules
[11:22] <MadHaTTer_000> not since that once
[11:22] <ikonia> and as you are using #ubuntu-server for your Server OS #ubuntu-server is the best place anyway
[11:23] <MadHaTTer_000> yes for server related questions but i have a few that are desktiop gui related and since the server os doesnt come with a desktop they are best asked in ubuntu
[11:26] <MadHaTTer_000> matt isnt your name from some movie with the blonde girl (cant remember her name) in a english setting?
[11:26] <MadHaTTer_000> the girl from that had me at hello movie
[11:28] <MadHaTTer_000> so how is the uk this time of year?
[11:28] <ikonia> ok, you've been given the terms of having your ban removed, if you'd like to get the ban removed, please follow the terms stated down
[11:29] <MadHaTTer_000> i think you mean laid down
[11:30] <ikonia> ok "laid down" then
[11:30] <MadHaTTer_000> yeah np except the week part thats a long time
[11:31] <MadHaTTer_000> :(
[11:31] <ikonia> it is
[11:31] <ikonia> so I guess we'll see you in a week's time
[11:31] <ikonia> please try to keep your language under control in #ubuntu-server and we'll have no issue
[11:32] <MadHaTTer_000> its already been ovwer a week though cant i get time served :D
[11:33] <ikonia> MadHaTTer_000: it's been a week and you've not shown you can a.) control your langauage b.) stop the text speak c.) read/understand the topic of the channels you are
[11:33] <ikonia> if you can do that for a week, we'll be happy
[11:34] <MadHaTTer_000> how do you figure? only b is somewhat true
[11:37] <ikonia> how do I figure, errr your behaviour is the reason I make these comments
[11:38] <ikonia> look, those are the terms of getting ban removed, if you can correct those 3 things for a week, we'll have no issues
[11:40] <MadHaTTer_000> ok so i dont get any time served?
[11:40] <ikonia> I'm not interested in how long you've been banned, I want you to demonstrate you can correct the three reasons you where a problem
[11:42] <MadHaTTer_000> ok tty in a week
[11:42] <ikonia> MadHaTTer_000: tty ? more text speak ?
[11:42] <MadHaTTer_000> hey im working on it
[11:42] <ikonia> I feel you are wasting my time
[11:43] <MadHaTTer_000> thats the tough one for me as ive been typing that way forever
[11:43] <ikonia> I think the ban can stay for 2 weeks more
[11:43] <ikonia> if you can't control yourself 1 line after I've just asked you to, I think you have a problem that needs to be monitored longer
[11:43] <ikonia> MadHaTTer_000: speak to you in 2 weeks
[11:43] <MadHaTTer_000> ok i really need to leave this room talk to you in a week
[11:44] <ikonia> I'll message him
[11:44] <ikonia> he is clearly trying to push it
[11:44] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu-ops MadHaTTer_000 do not unban until 2 weeks beyond this date, depentant on behaviour in #ubuntu-server
[11:47] <ikonia> ok he's trying to provoke now as I've just messaged him to confrim the ban and he told me not to message him
[11:48] <jussi> whoops, wrong button
[14:50]  * tsimpson fails
[16:40] <oCean> hi
[16:40] <oCean> please notice suck_my_* in #u
[16:41] <oCean> thx
[19:06] <Pici> jrib is updated regularly.
[19:06] <jrib> :)
[20:06] <jrib> hmm I remember that
[20:06]  * LjL chuckles
[20:06] <jrib> from some time in the past
[20:06] <LjL> erUSUL thinks the people who this factoid would be directed to are going to understand it :D
[20:06] <Pici> LjL: heh
[20:08] <LjL> i suggest
[20:08] <LjL> !xy is <reply> So you have already thought of a solution to your Ubuntu problem? Fine, but ask about the problem, not the solution! Otherwise we can't understand the problem and can't know whether there's a better solution.
[20:13] <erUSUL> hi there
[20:13] <jrib> hi
[20:13] <jrib> LjL made a suggestion
[20:13] <jrib> !xy is <reply> So you have already thought of a solution to your Ubuntu problem? Fine, but ask about the problem, not the solution! Otherwise we can't understand the problem and can't know whether there's a better solution.
[20:13] <jrib> erm
[20:13] <jrib> didn't mean to do that... anyway, what do you think erUSUL ?
[20:14] <Pici> I don't think it conveys the same message.
[20:14] <erUSUL> i like how it is explained here http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem too long though
[20:14] <erUSUL> specialy the part leads to enormous amounts of wasted time and energy, both on the part of people asking for help, and on the part of those providing help.
[20:15] <erUSUL> specialy the part " ... leads to enormous amounts of wasted time and energy, both on the part of people asking for help, and on the part of those providing help. "
[20:15] <Pici> heh.  I actualy have a /wtf aliased to 'say $0: What exactly are you trying to do?'
[20:16] <Pici> I haven't used it in a while though :(
[20:17] <erUSUL> btw i took the wording for the factoid from here  http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=542341 <<
[20:17] <jrib> yeah, I usually ask "what do you want to accomplish exactly?"
[20:17] <erUSUL> maybe this ( larger ) version ? « The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned. »
[20:18] <Pici> I like that better, I'm not sure if all users who this is directed at are going to be able to parse it though.
[20:19] <erUSUL> the best way to detect a xy problem is when you ask yourself « why on earth does this guy/girl needs to do that ? it makes no sense »
[20:22] <LjL> erUSUL, i tried to rephrase it because maybe i have too little faith in our users, but i suspected the whole X Y Z thing is well over most of their heads :P
[20:23] <erUSUL> LjL: your version is fine too. even a dry « !wayttd ->  What *exactly* are you trying to do? » may be enough
[20:27] <erUSUL> 6 down vote
[20:27] <erUSUL> 	
[20:27] <erUSUL> The XY problem is asking about your attempted solution rather than your actual problem.
[20:27] <erUSUL> paste fail ;P
[20:27] <erUSUL> nice a and short
[20:40] <jrib> !forget xy
[20:41] <jrib> erUSUL: I don't know if the short one is worth having as a factoid.  But I'll add the long one and see how it goes I guess.  Personally, I'll just use something like your short version directly
[20:42] <jrib> !xy is <reply> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
[20:42] <jrib> !unforget xy
[20:42] <jrib> !no xy is <reply> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
[20:42] <mneptok> i thought the XY problem was "men are genetically predisposed to a 'pack leader' mentality, and thus we have a history of war and violence"
[20:44]  * mneptok heads to the airport
[21:39] <Tm_T> good night all
[23:24] <Pricey_> ikonia: Oh a while back... probably about a year ago. Just haven't been able to commit time to freenode or Ubuntu unfortunately. If I'm lucky I'll find time and get the opportunity to again one day soon.