andylockranGuys - who's the ubuntu laptop reseller in the UK ?00:11
andylockranand 2)  Can I get ubuntu on a macbook pro?00:14
mgdmpopey has Ubuntu on a MacBook, might not be a Pro00:15
andylockranok, I'll ping him in the morning.00:16
shaunothere's a whole chunk of good reading too, at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro00:17
shauno(8,1 is the current model, and mostly undocumented thanks to being a week old.  it gets wildly more successful as you go back a model or two tho)00:20
andylockranlooks a little complicated.  Are there many OSS programs that don't compile on the OSX (me is thinking, eclipse, vim, subclipse, perl, python, android developer tools)00:22
mgdmandylockran: I use all of those almost every week, if not day00:29
shaunoI've struggled with larger packages (trying to build evolution was a week of misery).  but most of those aren't a problem00:29
andylockranYeah, that's more or less my toolkit00:30
andylockranthunderbird for email00:30
andylockranbut if eclipse compiles, i'm guessing I shouldn't have problems with eclipse extensions?00:30
andylockranah, and Open/LibreOfice00:31
andylockranyeah, that looks schweet then00:32
andylockranright - so tomorrow I walk into the office and suggest they buy me a macbook pro00:32
andylockrannegiotiation will last 30 minutes before I get told no I'm guessing.00:32
andylockranbut hey ho.. worth a go :000:32
shaunosubclipse I've never heard of.  the rest of those are good to go tho.  eclipse & LO have osx builds available, python/perl/vim/etc are installed out of the box00:33
andylockranwell here hoping it goes well tomorrow00:35
andylockranand now I shall sleep.. night all!00:35
dsasheh http://www.ndftz.com/nickelanddime.png00:54
shaunolike the fineprint00:59
ali1234what does "subjective transparency" mean?01:00
ali1234also, what if banshee devs put up a ppa restoring the referal link? what then?01:01
shaunowar, I guess.01:01
ali1234i mean, then i could pick and choose01:01
ali1234not that i buy mp3s, or anything from amazon ever again01:01
hamitronagain? ;/01:03
ali1234yeah i cancelled my amazon account at the same time i cancelled my paypal account01:07
dsasali1234, then I guess you could install that and use that instead.01:16
HazRPGhave I missed much today?04:34
NateWiebegord: just curious in terms of the unity dash, is scrolling with the scroll wheel considered a bug or a wishlist item? (bug #721447)05:34
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 721447 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to scroll in Applications/Files and Folders Place using mouse wheel" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72144705:34
ballWhat's the usual mobile broadband standard in the UK these days?  UMTS?  LTE?06:54
MartijnVdSUMTS + HSPA06:56
* ball goes to look up HSPA06:56
MartijnVdSwith fallback to GPRS/EDGE (same as everywhere in Europe really ;))06:56
MartijnVdSball: HSPA is an extension to the UMTS protocol that allows for more speed06:56
* ball ponders06:57
ballDoes UMTS cost more than EDGE, or is it just a case of 'pay for data and you get what you can'?06:58
MartijnVdSI'm not in the UK, but here in the Netherlands all "data plans" are for a given number of megabytes, regardless of tech used06:59
MartijnVdSand you get EDGE if you go outside of UMTS coverage06:59
MartijnVdS(or GPRS if you're not on Voda)07:00
ballMartijnVdS: No "unlimited" data plans?07:00
MartijnVdSball: they call them unlimited, but they never really are07:00
ballMartijnVdS: soft or hard cap?  Do they cut you off or just throttle you back?07:01
MartijnVdSwhere I work, we throttle people back, and only cut them off if they're repeat "offenders"07:02
MartijnVdSyou know.. I think most operators do that for "unlimited" plans07:03
ballMartijnVdS: Is that based purely on how much data they're throwing around, or is the decision influenced by the /type/ of data?07:03
MartijnVdSwhich is why they aren't offering too many of those anymore (get our 500MB plan, so we can charge you for every MB more)07:03
MartijnVdSwhere I work it's amount07:04
MartijnVdSother operators -> not transparent07:04
* ball nods07:04
MartijnVdSsupposedly only the amount, but they have weird rules like "you can't connect your laptop" or "no VOIP"07:04
ballData is one of the few things that makes me interested in sticking with the operator I have now.07:04
MartijnVdSI have an old-style "unlimited for €7,50/month" plan that I like :)07:06
ball...that and the fact I can use a WiFi LAN as though it were a tower.07:06
MartijnVdShow do you do that then?07:06
ballMartijnVdS: Only works with certain handsets (primarily Nokia) but you tell the phone about a wireless LAN (SSID, encryption and password) and the phone magically detects and uses it whenever you're within range.07:08
MartijnVdSah SIP07:09
MartijnVdSI can use that.. but it uses a different number07:09
MartijnVdSwhich is annoying :)07:09
ballIt uses SIP?07:09
MartijnVdSwell.. that's the only "wifi calling" option my phones have offered07:09
ballMartijnVdS: This works with my existing number and is seamless.07:10
ballMartijnVdS: incomming calls come through the WiFi too.07:10
ballSMS and "mobile Web"07:10
mindloreDoes anyone know about Western Digital Caviar Green hard drives disappearing from the file system under linux?07:10
MartijnVdSand this works on any LAN?07:10
MartijnVdSmindlore: drives disappearing usually means they're flaking out (check the kernel log in /var/log/kern.log)07:11
ballMartijnVdS: Yes.07:11
ballMartijnVdS: ...seems to.07:11
MartijnVdSball: then it has to be SIP or some related protocol07:11
MartijnVdSand it means our (EU) operators suck :)07:11
ballWhat kind of UMTS/EDGE adaptor works with Ubuntu?07:11
MartijnVdSball: Lots.. some might need more tweaking than others thoguh07:12
AlanBellmorning all07:12
mindloreMartijnVdS, I would do, but I reinstalled. Noted for next time. It passes a full SMART test though.07:12
MartijnVdS\o AlanBell07:12
MartijnVdSmindlore: SMART is only an indication, not 100% proof :)07:12
MartijnVdSball: My laptop's built-in Gobi 2000 was fiddly to get to work, but now it's fine07:12
ballI'm considering mobile broadband if my cable company can't get its act together.07:13
MartijnVdSball: most USB sticks work fine (though they might need a poke with usb_modeswitch to switch them from "driver installer fake-CD-ROM"-mode to "modem mode"07:13
MartijnVdSball: (this is all automatic if you have the right packages installed, of course)07:14
mindloreMartijnVdS, Ok, thanks. The reason I ask about the WDC Green drives in particular was because I read something about them going into a low power sleep mode and not waking up in time, causing a the sata driver to assume the drive was no longer there. Any ideas about that?07:14
ballMartijnVdS: I may try it with some of the local mobile broadband adaptors if I can borrow some at work.07:14
MartijnVdSmindlore: no idea, don't have a drive like that so never had the problem07:15
MartijnVdSball: network-manager will pop up asking to configure it, it's really neat :)07:15
mindloreMartijnVdS, Ok. Thank you. If it is the drive flaking out, what do I look for in the kernel log?07:15
ballI'll ask the mobile phone chaps whether I can borrow one during lunch break.07:16
ballIf I can make it work with the laptop, I may be able to get by with the old desktop.07:17
MartijnVdSmindlore: messages about ATA/SATA :) it'll be obvious07:18
MartijnVdSball: "Ye Olde Desktoppe"07:18
mindloreMartijnVdS, Ok, thanks. I hoped it would be. :)07:18
ballI think I need to sleep on it.07:19
ballGoodnight everyone.07:19
MartijnVdS\o ball07:19
ballMartijnVdS: Thanks for the information, it was very helpful.07:20
mindloreI'm looking in the kernel log now, and I've got some ATA bus errors. Is that normal/acceptable?07:20
MartijnVdSmindlore: not really07:20
mindloreAll the errors are in relation to the WDC Green drive. Does it look like I need to return that drive?07:23
mindloreActually, my DVD is getting them too. Unless I'm reading it wrong.07:24
MartijnVdSmight be your controller flaking out then07:24
MartijnVdSor just a few loose cables07:25
mindloreJust to be clear: The controller on the mobo?07:25
mindloreAh. Optimism. :)07:25
MartijnVdSmindlore: check the cables and PSU first -- the PSU might also providing a voltage that's too low07:26
MartijnVdSand yes, the controller is part of the mono07:26
mindloreWhat would I do if the voltage is too low?07:28
MartijnVdSget a new PSU07:28
mindloreOh. :(07:28
MartijnVdSbut it might be hard to figure out if this is the case (unless you're good with wires and a multimeter)07:28
mindloreIt's been a while since I've used one of those. ;)07:29
mindloreMy other HDD doesn't get any errors though. A good sign?07:30
mindloreFor the controller, I mean?07:32
MartijnVdScould be07:32
MartijnVdSI'd start with checking the connections then :)07:32
mindloreRight, so: Check connections, check voltage, or failing those return mobo. Sound about right?07:34
MartijnVdScheck if your current "root" disk fails on those ports as well07:36
AlanBellor a spare sacrificial disk07:37
mindloreBy simply swapping the cables over?07:37
MartijnVdSor that07:37
AlanBelldon't write to your currently working root disk on a suspected dodgy controller07:38
mindloreAlanBell, wise words. Ok, thanks.07:38
mindloreRight, you've been a big help. Thank you. I'll get to those things later today. Now though, I've got to go, the kids are up and demanding breakfast. ;)07:44
initselffriends, romans, countryman08:13
initself(wait, i'm american!)08:13
DJonesMorning all08:13
initselfsweetbear: Flying, beaches, bridges.08:13
initselfthat's what they are into in the uk08:13
jpdsinitself: OK, you're American, we've done waiting, continue.08:14
sweetbearinitself: they're already making fun of you...08:15
initselfyou too, sweetheart!08:15
initselfthese's brits think their so cheeky08:15
AlanBellmorning all08:15
initselfGOOD EVENING, AlanBell!08:15
initselfThe party is just getting started over here!08:15
sweetbearinitself: you mean morning has just started08:16
initselfPARTY BABY08:16
jpdsCAPS LOCK.08:17
initselfyou can't celebrate without CAPS LOCK.08:17
sweetbearjpds: you're funny08:17
jpdssweetbear: Thank you.08:17
initselfso, dude, the uk is just hacking hardcore on ubuntu tonight, eh?08:21
initselfwhatever, time is so relative08:21
MyrttiI wonder, does linode supply each vps with their own ip08:21
Myrttior is there some bundling going on08:21
AlanBellMyrtti: it is ok, sweetbear and initself are sat next to each other08:21
initselfI believe yes is the answer to that.08:21
AlanBellput the EMP cannon down08:22
MyrttiAlanBell: I'll get me popcorn08:22
* initself hopes that our baby does not wake.08:22
* AlanBell is off out to talk open source to a customer08:22
AlanBelllaters all08:22
sweetbearinitself: if the baby is up it's your turn to change her08:22
jpdsMyrtti: The former.08:23
MooDoohello all08:50
wintellectMornin all09:03
MezWinful speed test :D09:40
screen-xmorning :)09:50
screen-xhi daubers :)09:54
screen-xGetting any less manic for you?09:55
screen-xthis morning's reading... http://i.imgur.com/7fdzK.jpg09:57
popeymorning all!10:02
MooDoomorning alan10:02
screen-x\o popey10:02
screen-xhow was uupc live?10:02
popeyscreen-x: it was great fun to make10:03
popeyno idea what it was like to listen to :D10:03
JamesTaitGood morning, everyone. :)10:04
screen-xpopey: glad it was fun :)10:04
screen-xpopey: I'm looking forward to listening to it later...10:04
screen-xI wonder which will be released first, the ipad or S04E01..10:04
screen-xmorning JamesTait :)10:05
* screen-x opens lunch, then puts it away again, its only 10:0510:05
kazadepopey, it sounded really good, almost too good. I reckon it was pre-recorded and the liveness was all an elaborate scam ;)10:07
bigcalmPostie didn't deliver my graze box today :'(10:09
Pendulumbigcalm: :(10:10
* bigcalm wants his nibbles10:10
bigcalmHi Pendulum :)10:10
Pendulumhi bigcalm10:10
bigcalmI forget that you live in a large country10:11
bigcalmIn the UK 1 maybe 2 lorries would be all it takes to deliver a package10:12
bigcalmWell, it's on its way to CT now10:13
Pendulumactually, it apparently is at the other end of CT now. But that still means it probably won't be here until tomorrow (because it's going to get sorted at least once more)10:13
popeykazade: haha!10:14
bigcalmPendulum: I'm trying to work out what the shipping cost might be from there to here. I must be doing something wrong as UPS is saying over 100USD10:18
hoover_hey biggie10:18
bigcalmHi hoover_10:18
=== hoover_ is now known as hoover
Pendulumbigcalm: I'll probably express mail it so it'll be somewhere around $50 US (if I"m calculating correctly, I had to guess at box dimensions so it might be cheaper)10:21
bigcalmOk, thanks :)10:21
bigcalmDo you need to wrap it in birthday wrapping paper to make it look like a gift? ;)10:22
Pendulumnope :)10:23
mungojerrymorning..any docky users in here?10:23
=== commander`Faggot is now known as UUUUUk
dwatkinshi folks10:47
dwatkinsif anyone near Maidenhead is looking for a linux sysadmin position, feel free to message me, as a friend of mine is looking for someone with at least 2 years experience10:48
MooDooo/ yay10:48
TommehMaidenhead ayy? BlueSquare?10:50
TommehSlash poundhost/rapidswitch10:50
dwatkinsThrust VPS, Tommeh.10:51
dwatkinsThey used to use bluesquare, though.10:52
Tommehdwatkins: do they co-lo elsewhere now?10:53
dwatkinsTommeh: I'm not sure, have asked the question.10:53
dwatkinsTommeh: totally separate company10:55
TommehI realise Bluesquare != Thrust VPS10:59
TommehOr do you mean they co-lo with a totally separate facility now?10:59
TommehThough on their website it does say they have access to five separate facilities..11:00
davmor2morning all11:01
MooDoodwatkins: this one? - http://www.thrustvps.com/blog/11:01
MooDoodavmor2: HazRPG morning11:01
dwatkinsyeah MooDoo11:02
HazRPGmorning MooDoo dude :)11:02
dwatkinsTommeh: I don't know, I can ask.11:02
davmor2morning MooDoo I thought you were on lates11:02
MooDoodavmor2: got out of it, swapped shifts, working the weekends for the next two weeks now11:03
Tommehdwatkins: I wouldn't worry :)11:03
TommehI'm just nosey11:03
MooDooAny one near Hereford?11:04
davmor2MooDoo: and that's better how?11:04
MooDoodavmor2: finish at 5:30 as apposed to midnight11:05
MooDoodavmor2: it's easier on the wife :)11:05
screen-xMooDoo: depends what you mean by near, I'm about an hour away from Hereford.11:16
MooDooscreen-x: oh i was just thinking about an opensource event that's happening in march11:17
screen-xWhat sort of event?11:17
screen-xSome sort of rebel oggcamp offshoot?11:18
* screen-x reads11:19
screen-xI'm in chichester that day, otherwise could have popped in..11:20
* bigcalm spies Drupal and runs away screaming11:20
screen-xbigcalm: a definate case of defaultthemeitus11:21
Myrttiquick question11:21
screen-xMyrtti: too slow11:22
Myrttiwhat package should I install to enable British English spellcheck in OO.o?11:22
bigcalmToo cold, going to get the fan heater11:22
screen-xopenoffice.org-l10n-en-gb at a guess11:23
* Myrtti facepalms11:24
screen-xMyrtti: I haven't confirmed that that contains spelling dictionaries.. just looked likely11:24
Myrttiwell, it's a lot better than the ukrainian packages I looked at11:25
Myrttiyes, I need more coffee11:29
* bigcalm hugs his fresh cupa of tea11:30
MooDoohmmm tea11:30
HazRPGhas just found GroundControl11:53
HazRPGseems pretty snazzy!11:53
bigcalmMajor Tom?11:58
directhexHazRPG, ?11:59
HazRPGdirecthex: As it says in the description "launchpad for your desktop"11:59
dutchiewell, launchpad for nautilus11:59
Baikonurmy desktop is going to stay firmly on the floor12:00
HazRPGbasically a gui version of bzr and launchpad for nautilus...12:00
HazRPGdutchie: exactly :)12:00
* MartijnVdS wants a Xoom :(12:07
HazRPGMartijnVdS: What's a Xoom?12:12
MartijnVdSHazRPG: Tablet, Motorola, Android (Gingerbread)12:13
HazRPGoh was the the tablet shown at ICS?12:13
MartijnVdSHazRPG: I think so, yes12:14
Ngit's the one where you buy it and later send it back to motorola for them to enable all the features they promised ;)12:14
MartijnVdSNg: only in the US (LTE).. we get 3G12:15
MartijnVdSbut I want the wifi-only model.. 3G only costs a lot of money12:15
Ngah so then the future updates to enable all of the promised features can just be applied at home!12:15
MartijnVdSyes :)12:15
screen-xMartijnVdS: Honeycomb!12:17
* Ng can't help but wonder if all the "err, we'll enable that later" stuff is them desparately rushing to have it in stores before ipad2 is announced today ;)12:21
MartijnVdSNg: probably, yes12:22
MartijnVdSespecially in the US12:22
MartijnVdSand looking at the leaked ipad 2 specs: it has (almost) the same CPU as the Xoom12:22
MartijnVdSso it's in the same "class"12:22
gordthey are using tegra?12:25
DJonesgord: Just at the point reading so Nvidia Tegra T2 dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 CPU and ultra-low power GeForce GPU.12:26
gordno i mean the ipad212:26
gordif it ain't using tegra, it ain't in the same class12:26
Nggord: tegra for ipad2 is unlikely, but unknown12:26
gordtegra gpus are amazing12:27
directhexapple have their own arm license12:27
directhexthey won't use tegra12:27
NgSGX543 seems to be the leading contender in the rumours12:27
gordtegra cpus are pretty great too thought, really impressed with the speed on them12:28
Ngthese things are all much of a muchness, and it's not the detailed technical specs that sell them to people12:29
gordsure, but its interesting to us nerds :)12:30
Nghopefully enough UX love will go into android and webOS that they can properly compete as tablets and maybe even drive some innovation of their own12:31
Ngand unity, obviously :)12:31
gordi have absolutely zero interest in webOS, i don't think google does even... but android honeycomb looks nice12:33
gordthe past month or so, the quality of android apps has gone through the roof too12:33
gordstill not sold on getting an android tablet before there is a nexus-tablet or something though12:33
Ngapart from the rootkit ones ;)12:33
gordrootkits are a good thing! it means your platform is popular! or.. something12:34
directhexi'm not sold on android, full stop12:47
directhexi think it has a clear future, i just don't think it's very good12:47
daftykinsbleh, annoying when highlights are beyond your scrollback13:22
daftykinsanywho kernel updates ;x13:22
AlanBellmethinks the domain squatters got in quicker than William did http://www.officialroyalwedding2011.org13:31
gordi'm pretty sure they prolly bought up from 1996->2040 ;)13:31
TheOpenSourcerer"Powered by Google App Engine, Implemented by Accenture"13:32
AlanBellyup, saw that too13:32
mungojerryAlanBell: wouldn't it be a .gov.uk?13:32
AlanBellgosh no!13:33
AlanBellthat would be a constitutional crisis13:34
AlanBellso it is13:34
AlanBelldon't think it should be a .org though, but the principals of the TLDs have been abused for years13:35
mungojerryi don't believe the link you posted is the real one though?13:35
AlanBellit is13:35
mungojerryit looks terrible13:35
AlanBellhttp://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/mediacentre/pressreleases/launch_of_royal_wedding_website_809770138.html also a .gov.uk13:36
Myrtticould be worse13:36
popeyfun to see what else is hosted on that box.13:36
AlanBellmungojerry: stop viewing it in IE613:36
mungojerrypopey:  nice13:37
Myrttioo, that's a nice site13:37
* Myrtti bookmarks it with stopforumspam.com13:37
AlanBellpopey: same as which box?13:39
popeythe ip that the website was on when i looked13:43
popeythe royal one13:43
screen-xhmm, some unfortunate neighbours in that list13:45
AlanBellseems to be elsewhere now13:45
AlanBellthat will be a reverse proxy or load balancer or something I expect13:45
* AlanBell wonders which of those websites popey accidentally pinged13:48
DeathSlingBigRedS: Many thanks for your help with ssh auto authentication, it's all working very nicely now :)13:50
DeathSlingAnyone here installled ZImbra?  I have version 6 network edition and it's states installng on an ext3 but I'm wondering if thats just some outdated info. Can I use ext4?13:51
mungojerryI have a Zimbra server DeathSling13:52
BigRedSDeathSling: awesome!13:52
BigRedSI occasionaly look after Zimbras, but I don't enjoy it...13:52
mungojerrydid you know that v7 is out13:52
DeathSlingyey, ext4 or ext3?13:52
mungojerryDeathSling: ext3 since the server is RHEL5.513:53
* BigRedS likes ext3 'cause I keep coming across parteds that don't do 413:53
DeathSlingi do, but my time is short and I just got a virtual server running with drbd.  Now finally I'm about to install it and along comes version 7....arr poo sticks!13:54
DeathSlingagain, thank you BigRedS13:54
* mungojerry likes zimbra13:55
DeathSlingis it possible then to do a vmbuilder with 10.04 but with ext3, it's default is ext413:55
BigRedSmungojerry: I think my problem is mostly unfamiliarity. And postfix/dovecot does all I need out of a mailserver13:55
mungojerrynever used vmbuilder13:56
DeathSlingi quite like vmbuilder, in the very short time I've been using it13:57
mungojerryBigRedS: we have it for around 250 users on all sorts of OS, Active Sync works v well too13:57
mungojerryunfortunately new IT strategy will prob mean the MS takeover since MS-loving consultants have been brought in :(13:58
BigRedSyeah, we've customers doing that sort of thing, does seem very very good at what it does13:58
mungojerrywhat does middle-click on a webpage do in ff4?13:59
mungojerrydoes for me :(14:00
mungojerrytry with multiple tabs open14:01
popeyi have14:01
popeyi am on windows14:01
mungojerryit keeps opening the ubuntu vm builder page ...which means if i try to middle-click on a link get open in a new tab and miss, i lose my current page :(14:02
mungojerrypopey: got it. if your clipboard is a url, then a middleclick on the text area of a page will paste-and-go in the address bar..http://kb.mozillazine.org/Middlemouse.contentLoadURL14:04
popeythats been the same for ages iirc14:06
BigRedSyeah, it's done that for as long as I can remember14:08
BigRedSeven if it's not a url it does that14:08
mungojerrymaybe i'm just getting inaccurate with my clicks, or i never have urls in my clipboard14:08
daubersle sigh14:09
screen-x!fr |daubers14:09
lubotu3`daubers: Ce canal est en anglais uniquement. Si vous avez besoin d'aide ou voulez discuter en francais, merci de rejoindre #ubuntu-fr, ou #ubuntu-qc. Merci.14:09
mungojerrypourquoi tu es triste?14:09
daubersThe worlds all broken. I do find it weird how you the attitude of certain groups in OSS circles can deflect the weird stat of the world14:10
daubersAll the "Them against us" hooha in OSS recently seems to mirror the sudden breakout of government toppling in parts of the world14:11
mungojerryyou mean, lots of people want to fight and overthrow their overlords?14:11
daubersIt's just sad really14:11
mungojerrythe internet gives people a voice who normally wouldn't be heard14:12
daubersIt's not just the internet at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised to hear more people on street corners crying out against something or the other14:13
mungojerrylike that guy who made the boycottnovell site..we spent his entire time trolling digg and blogs to create a louder noise than he should normally be able to make14:13
AlanBelland the boycott-boycottnovell counter trol14:13
screen-xif only all trolls were equal and opposite and dissapeared upon collision14:14
mungojerrydaubers: call me strange but twitter contributes to a lot of it14:14
daubersThen we'd need to build an LTC, and no-one has that kind of money14:15
daubersmungojerry: I'm not sure that's it really. It depends what channels you listen too (i.e. tv, radio newspapers and so on14:15
mungojerry2010 was the year of the orchestrated twitter campaign against anything you don't like, whether it's catlady, tmobile data AUP, etc14:15
mungojerrythanks for the )14:16
shaunopretty sure that's going to have to be a :}14:16
popeynice goatee14:16
mungojerryi don't mind { because it makes me think of a funny moustache :-{|14:16
AlanBellheh, popey removed the ( from the topic14:17
mungojerrymy office is getting refurb'd at the mo and there's one walltile missing from an otherwise complete jigsaw...it pains me to see it14:17
mungojerrythere is a general disrespect for authority in the world14:18
mungojerryhowever it's true to say that sometimes the overlords make stupid decisions14:18
AlanBellrespect mah authoritah14:19
mungojerrythe students thought they would gain something by rioting and generally being jerks14:19
mungojerryalongside peaceful protesters as well who still expected to get their own way14:19
mungojerrymick jagger said - you can't always get what you want....14:20
daubersThe student protest fiasco just helped re-enforce a negative stereotype14:22
screen-xdaubers: you sound pretty forlorn, its going to be ok, the worst that can happen is death.14:25
daubersscreen-x: Meh. Everythings just stupid at the moment really. Eventually the level of idiocy in the world will be so big it will gravitate in on itself and implode14:26
Myrttithat sounds like something I have said14:26
DeathSlingBigRedS: Regarding Zimbra, what do you mean by 'parteds' when you say "coming across parteds that don't do 4"  ?14:27
DeathSlingdo you mean partition editors14:28
screen-x!info parted14:28
lubotu3`parted (source: parted): The GNU Parted disk partition resizing program. In component main, is standard. Version 2.3-2ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 72 kB, installed size 196 kB14:28
* daubers may not be getting enough vitamin d recently14:28
screen-xdaubers: You can dilute the idocy, in your corner of the world :)14:29
BigRedSDeathSling: ah, I didn't mean with zimbra. Just that the first few times I tried ext4 it was on systems that would install to it, but then couldn't edit it14:29
* MooDoo looks forward to implosion14:29
BigRedSwhich was rather irritating14:29
screen-xMooDoo: going to watch from TRATEOTU?14:30
daubersscreen-x: Tahat tends to end with a prison sentence14:30
screen-xdaubers: nah, just being should help14:30
MooDooscreen-x: if they do a good pan galactic gargle blaster not one of the cheap rip offs14:30
MartijnVdSMooDoo: one with real Santraginus Vian water?14:31
MartijnVdSMooDoo: and Arcturan Mega-gin14:31
MooDooyup that's the one14:31
daubersscreen-x: Until I can sort my lcak of concentration, I'm part of the issue at the moment14:32
DeathSlingBigRedS: again, thank you   :)14:32
screen-x /kick daubers14:32
screen-xthat should help ;-)14:32
BigRedSDeathSling: no problems! I'm always happy to complain about a lack of tools :)14:42
Romeo_Hi all need some quick help, im not sure what ive done but when i have something open lets say firefox, once i minimize it i cant see it on my taskbar14:44
BigRedSRomeo_: you might've removed the taskbar from the panel?14:45
Romeo_the taskbar is there14:45
Romeo_i did remove it but readded it14:45
Romeo_so now i have a solid taskbar the recycle bin on it is gone and also when i minimize anything i dont see it :/14:46
BigRedSAh, I've no idea, then. Hmmm14:46
Romeo_its happened to me loads of times but never asked for help14:46
DJonesRomeo_: You could try resetting your panels14:47
lubotu3`To reset the gnome panel to defaults, type this in a !terminal: « gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel »14:47
Romeo_sorted, thanx!14:47
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
seanh_Hey, I installed Ubuntu (using a normal ubuntu install CD) onto a USB drive. Now I've booted the USB on a computer, and am trying to use it to install Ubuntu on the computer15:33
seanh_It did not have the install ubuntu menu item like installer CDs/USBs have, so I installed the ubiquity package and that got me the menu item15:34
seanh_But when I run the installer, it crashes after partitioning and before copying any files15:34
seanh_Anyone know why this doesn't work?15:34
=== Monster_Killer is now known as MonsterKiller
shaunooh yuck.  python doesn't have switch/case ?16:41
kazadeshauno, nope, if/elif/elif/elif/else16:41
BigRedSand I thought perl was bad not getting it until 5.10...16:43
kazadeThere are 3 things that annoy me about Python syntax. That's one, the other two are "self" and not being able to enforce a method's return type16:46
ali1234you could make your own switch with a dict and function pointers16:52
HazRPGha this is really bugging the living crap out of me!17:01
directhexshauno, see, python sucks!17:01
HazRPGdirecthex: :o17:01
HazRPGI'm trying to make a function to grab every possible deal combination possible for days of stay17:03
HazRPGand I just can't get my head around it17:03
gordwhy can't you just use if's?17:03
gordif you were going to use a switch that is17:04
shaunoI wouldn't go that far, but I am failing to see the appeal so far17:04
HazRPGshauno: with python?17:04
HazRPGshauno: Blender vs 3D studio max17:04
HazRPGBlender = 8 MB, 3D studio max > 5000 MB17:05
HazRPGoh wait, I think blender is 15MB now cos of a whole bunch of new stuff17:05
shaunoI don't like depreciating old stuff the moment there's a replacement for it.  makes for an iffy transition17:06
HazRPGshauno: python helps make applications run smoother too at times17:06
HazRPGshauno: how so?17:07
shaunooptparse vs argparse17:08
shaunoone machine (2.7) tells me optparse is depreciated, the other machine (2.6) doesn't have argparse17:08
HazRPGsurely if you've compiled the code, it should still run on either though?17:09
andylockranwahey :)17:11
shaunodunno, I ripped that bit out and hardcoded what I needed for now :)17:11
HazRPGbrb going to restart X17:12
ali1234just seen on pastebin.com domain reports: http://youlearntwitface.com/17:15
ali1234can't tell if parody...17:18
DJonesSounds like a parody, plus with the "sold out" sign at the bottom would suggest it was17:19
ali1234looks more like a scam to me17:22
AlanBelllooks real to me17:23
ali1234some of the registration links still go to an online payment company... which 404s17:24
shaunoI picked the most unlikely looking face out of the list of presenters, googled the name and found it convincing :(17:25
ali1234yeah but notice the disclaimer: "we reserve the right to substitute any presenters, for any reason"17:26
AlanBellThomas Power is quite well known and the bio is right17:26
AlanBellstandard disclaimer17:26
shaunogoogled Dave Crane because he looked cool.  turns out he's as real as '"life designers" get17:26
ali1234http://www.youlearntwitface.com/combo.html "oh actually, we're not sold out, and tickets are only $97 now"17:26
AlanBellit isn't an actual scam17:27
ali1234and link to diferent payment company17:27
AlanBellI see no value in it whatsoever17:27
ali1234um yeah, if you turn up there will probably be something there17:27
ali1234incidentally, looks like this link works - you can still buy tickets for the event that was in 201017:28
AlanBellyup, bunch of business types raving about how SEO helped their business which is totally different to the businesses of the audience17:28
* Daviey will buy lots and sell them for PROFIT!17:28
ali1234it will probably just be that guy and 12 of his mates you've never heard of, talking about how you can make loads of money running fake conferences :)17:29
danfishI actually said 'lol' in a real conversation today. Am i beyond saving?17:30
AlanBellali1234: yeah, something like that. Wouldn't be surprised if there is some discussion of multi-level-marketing and neuro linguistic programming in there too17:31
Hazmasterdanfish: heh, i've let it slip a few times too :/17:31
AlanBelldanfish: lol17:31
Davieydanfish, did you say L-O-L or loal?17:31
danfishAlanBell: :P17:32
jpdsDaviey: Yes, I'd imagine.17:32
danfishDaviey: loal17:32
Davieyjpds, funny guy! :)17:32
danfishI think we need to set up the ubuntu equivalent of the roman catholic confessional, where all your online sins can be absolved ;)17:32
Davieyjpds, it was a XOR question :)17:33
jpdsDaviey: You didn't specify that!17:33
* Daviey makes a point of saying xor when he means or :)17:33
HazRPGali1234: Hmm, seems some programmers still use even more wonderful ways to get screensize for flash17:37
HazRPGthe embedded version of youtube seems to produce random results17:37
popey17:30:35 < danfish> I actually said 'lol' in a real conversation today. Am i beyond saving?17:37
popeyI have said "slash me is hungry" before now :S17:38
HazRPGali1234: ah no wait, I think chrome updated...17:38
* HazRPG goes to check the google-chrome bash script17:38
HazRPGali1234: ah yes, it seems it has replaced the bash script17:40
danfishpopey: hah, so it's not just me - there is hope after all :)17:41
AlanBelldanfish: or you are both beyond saving17:42
HazRPGdanfish: I've used "tl;dr" to stop someone giving me way too much info before17:43
gord aa17:46
popey Bug 64666917:46
gordcat got on keyboard...17:46
popeyhere we go again17:46
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 646669 in unity (Ubuntu) "Trash label mismatch Nautilus" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64666917:46
dutchieoh great17:48
danfishAlanBell: at least I'll have some company in the asylum ;)17:48
danfishyikes - that bug again :(17:50
gordpopey, maybe fix the en_gb translation to replace wastebin with rubbish bin?17:51
gordi don't actually know how the launchpad translation stuff works17:51
AlanBellI like that character in HHGTTG who declared his house to be the outside of the asylum17:52
* danfish had to google HHGTTG17:53
jpdsdanfish: ...17:54
* AlanBell takes danfish's geek badge away17:55
CepheusAlanBell: The bloke who decorated his house inside out?17:55
Cepheusyeah, couldn't remember his name17:57
CepheusI didn't read So Long that many times17:57
AlanBellit is good that we have wikipedia as our global curator of important information such as that17:58
popeyi have a ripped 5 pound note17:59
popeyi need sellotape17:59
CepheusI like to think of it as a rough guide to global knowledge17:59
danfishSanity is a sliding scale and I'm sliding off the bottom ;)17:59
danfishpopey: spellotape is better18:00
HazRPGpopey: ooo the new podcast site is sexy!18:14
AzelphurI came up with an awesome (D)DoS prevention tactic, http://game.azelphur.com/forum/denial-service-hall-shame18:15
TheOpenSourcererWife's PC is getting sick. The mobo and cpu etc. are quite old now. Just spec'd a quick update: mobo, cpu and 4G of RAM: £106 inc VAT.18:17
X3Npeople still use PCs?18:18
AlanBellthey use the iPad2 now18:18
AzelphurX3N: I use a PC o.O18:18
TheOpenSourcererI use a PC, a laptop and a phone.18:19
exobuzzX3N, instead of ?18:19
X3NA good laptop18:19
TheOpenSourcererIn fact several laptops. But I like my PC.18:19
AzelphurI use a PC, Laptop, Netbook and Phone18:19
exobuzzis a laptop not a pc ? oh ok.18:19
Azelphurmight be selling my netbook and getting a tabletbook soon, then I'll have a tablet too :D18:19
exobuzzi upgraded from my old laptop.18:19
danfishI haven't read about the ipad2 but even so..meh18:20
exobuzzlast laptop £1400. current pc (including screen - £700)18:20
exobuzzyou have to spend a lot of money on a laptop for decent speed18:20
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
gordmy laptop annoys me, all laptops do. you can't get they "just right"18:20
X3Nbut doesn't everyone need a laptop these days anyway?18:20
TheOpenSourcererThat's a lot for something that can easily be dropped.18:20
HazRPGAzelphur: haha love it, bet the guy feel really stupid now :P18:21
AzelphurHazRPG: :D18:21
exobuzzX3N, i think the answer is obviously no.18:21
AzelphurHazRPG: word on the street is that someone sent them a few thousand boxes and signed them up for a few interesting magazines.18:21
popeyirresponsible really18:22
popeyand what of the companies whose money is being wasted with these gags?18:22
Azelphur*shrug* either that or leave them to roam the internet attacking nonprofits18:22
exobuzzAzelphur, what if you make a mistake ? what if his pc is just infected. im not sure what you are doing is a good idea18:22
HazRPGAzelphur: xD18:22
Azelphurexobuzz: all the information there is confirmed if you notice :)18:22
Azelphurpopey: I didn't do it, I just posted the information and left people to do what they wanted *shrug*18:23
HazRPGAzelphur: See previous (D)DoS attacks I've had on my server/websites, I've gathered all information I could and sent their ISP a nice letter with all information and logs attached for their viewing pleasure :)18:23
exobuzzAzelphur, confirmed until you realise you made a mistake perhaps. you dont know that the server owner is the one18:23
AzelphurHazRPG: I've done that before, I never even get a reply :(18:24
exobuzzit could be hacked18:24
Azelphurexobuzz: I sent him emails and got rude replies, it's pretty obvious that it's him.18:24
exobuzzin a court of law, i think that would be amusing "evidence"18:24
exobuzzrude replies. guilty.18:24
Azelphurhehe :p18:24
=== richard is now known as Guest47764
exobuzzwhy not just email the isp and be done with it18:24
exobuzzlet them handle it.18:24
Azelphurexobuzz: (18:23:56) Azelphur: HazRPG: I've done that before, I never even get a reply :(18:25
popeyAzelphur: yeah yeah18:25
HazRPGAzelphur: I've had several replies in the past, some said they were looking into it, and others capped their internet down until they fixed whatever it was that caused the DoS's18:25
exobuzzdid you contact their abuse@ mailbox? if you got no reply, did you contact their upstream provider(s) ?18:25
AzelphurI even spoke to a lawyer about going to the police and he said there's very little point, at most I could expect to get them a warning but probably nothing, they arn't interested in anything non-damaging18:25
Azelphurexobuzz: I contacted the administrative for rtr-online.com18:26
exobuzzi dont know, but i dont like this sort of thing. sort of electronic lynch mob.18:26
Azelphurand he said "your NEED is not my priority"18:26
Azelphurexobuzz: Also as I say we've got the name of the attacker which is the same lastname as the owner of the website and it's a family business, so it's pretty obvious the attack came from there18:26
Azelphurand that probably would stand up in court :p18:27
HazRPGAzelphur: emailing the administrator of the site is never really enough, usually best to report to abuse@<host-of-ip>18:28
AzelphurHazRPG: I'll do that too, any ideas on what I should send with it?18:28
HazRPGAzelphur: like I said, I've had replies from those people a few times, and they've at very least investigated the problem18:28
HazRPGAzelphur: Best to send the log section with the DoS attacks18:28
AzelphurHazRPG: are you a real business though? I'm just a nonprofit gaming community18:28
HazRPGas a minimum18:28
HazRPGAzelphur: I'm only 23 dude, it was a non-profit game/mumble service running off it18:29
AzelphurI'll try that too then :)18:29
HazRPGwasn't even a logged IP from either source, they were just bombarding my router and web server18:30
HazRPGtrying to take it down in general18:30
Azelphurall I have is a packet dump from wireshark of loads of spam packets to UDP/27015 from their address18:30
HazRPGAzelphur: send that through (both plain-text and as a wireshark file), along with the whois info, and the steam account info as proof18:31
HazRPGthe whois should say where to report the abuse info to18:31
popeyhow long did the attack last?18:31
Azelphurpopey: dunno, I had it iptabled in < 60 seconds, I'm getting quite proficient at blocking these idiots18:32
HazRPGpopey: Mine? They did it every hr for about a week non-stop18:32
Azelphurand I have a lot of bandwith so I don't really care about absorbing the traffic18:32
Azelphurpopey: notice the google links on my post, you can see I'm not the only victim either :)18:33
HazRPGpopey: I didn't notice it at first because it wasn't a log I checked often, but when people said it was getting slow and sluggish I checked everything18:33
popeyso this lasted for a few minutes and you spent how long on this ?18:33
Azelphurpopey: I chose to spend a little time on it because he's attacked so many others18:34
Azelphurthere's literally pages of diatribe from this guy on google18:34
gordhuh, this love film streaming on ps3 works pretty well, surprised18:34
popeydoes he run his own server?18:34
Azelphurhe just goes around attacking other servers near enough for the point of it18:35
HazRPGgord: *cringe* that means you've updated your console18:35
HazRPGgord: 3.56 apparently has a rootkit installed with it18:35
Azelphurwe didn't even do anything to provoke an attack, he got angry with some other player on the server and decided that was motivation enough to DoS me18:35
Azelphur(I wasn't even present until the DoS started, a player told me about the threats)18:35
directhexgord, not interested in lovefilm until they do HD18:35
Azelphurso yea, I spent some time on him :)18:36
gordHazRPG, yes i did, rootkit is a horrible word to throw around18:36
gordHazRPG, i bought a playstation as a gaming console and blu-ray player, its fantastic at both, sony can rootkit it all they want as long as i can do those18:36
AzelphurHazRPG: happen to know how to filter a wireshark file so only the relevant stuff is shown?18:36
gorddirecthex, i could never stream hd ;)18:36
AzelphurI know how to apply the filter but I don't know how to save the filtered results18:36
HazRPGgord: Only stating what I've read from several sources.18:36
directhexgord, i have 13 megabit downstream, and am considering bt vision with >30 down18:37
gorddirecthex, thats nice for you. you won't even consider love film for titles that don't have HD versions?18:37
HazRPGgord: Ah see I only bought the PS3 because I knew Final Fantasy would be on it (being the idiot I was, I thought they'd only be exclusive like in the past), and the other reason was for having linux on it... but they stripped that away from me :(18:37
directhexHazRPG, but ff13 blows18:38
HazRPGI now have 20GB missing from my HDD that I just can't plain access18:38
AzelphurHazRPG: 39,346 packets, all the same from one IP in 11 seconds :D18:38
HazRPGdirecthex: I liked it, even though it was a bit linear18:38
gordhuh.. the aspect ratio is all wrong18:38
HazRPGAzelphur: ouch lol18:38
Cepheuswhen Sony puts rootkits on people's personal property (see that CD DRM scandal about 6 years ago) that is totally unacceptable18:38
HazRPGAzelphur: did it cause much hassle to the server?18:39
AzelphurHazRPG: so do you know how to save the filtered results?18:39
AzelphurHazRPG: being a game server yes, it caused everyone to time oud.18:39
Azelphurtime out*18:39
HazRPGAzelphur: should just be able to click save on it18:39
Cepheusthe PS3, au contraire, is their proprietary platform. I'm not saying I agree with their actions but they have more of a right to do so than DRM rootkits like XCP and SecuROM18:40
AzelphurHazRPG: I do not know why I didn't just try that *facedesk*18:40
Cepheuswhich install (usually silently) on a user's private PC18:40
HazRPGAzelphur: file->save as should just do it :)18:41
gordits not like other console makers don't do the same thing all the time anyway18:41
HazRPGAzelphur: iirc you'll get some options to select what it is your actually wanting to save too18:41
Azelphuryea, I did18:41
TheOpenSourcererI love this idea: Offsetting your proprietary footprint... http://www.theringtail.co.uk/2010/02/freedom-ubuntu-and-offsetting-your-proprietary-footprint/18:42
CepheusI'm pretty sure that the 360 sends Microsoft hashes of the CD drive firmware to detect unauthorized modification18:42
HazRPGAzelphur: export as plain-text too :)18:43
HazRPGAzelphur: since they might not have wireshark to open it up with18:43
CepheusIn fact, the 360's hypervisor actually does in-place encryption in RAM18:43
gordhuh restarting the playback fixed the aspect ratio, thats a bit annoying but i can live with that18:44
gordit doesn't support the ps3 blu-ray remote very well though, for shame. its the best remote ever!18:45
CepheusI think that next generation, console manafacturers will have realised that they need a professional hardware and software security consultation on their system designs if they want to secure their platforms18:46
HazRPGgord: Hmm, I don't think other console makers take the same approach18:47
gordHazRPG, the wii goes as far as physically removing content it detects as not supplied by them18:48
AzelphurHazRPG: wanna help me write this? http://ietherpad.com/rUWHwH6b2L18:48
Cepheusgord: actually, it's not quite that drastic. what they have is basically like looking for files by path and removing them18:48
=== ivanka is now known as ivanka-train
Cepheusthough there are per-save integrity checks done on games that have been publicly exploited18:49
gordits actually hugely impressive that sony managed to go this long without needed to do this kind of stuff18:50
Cepheusnot really. It's only due to the removal of Linux, which is the primary motivation of talented hackers18:51
Cepheusthe sort of hackers which have the capability to break open these systems are not motivated by cheating or software piracy. They were perfectly happy with the level of homebrew support provided by the OtherOS function18:52
gordyeah, no, i disagree18:54
Cepheusthe design mistake in the PS3's security system shows that there's a lack of knowledgable security staff in Sony's R&D labs. Especially as the PS3 wasn't the only device affected.18:54
CepheusThe security flaw manifested in the same way on the PSP which already has a remarkably poor track record for security18:55
directhexsome of the ps3 security bugs are *hilarious*18:59
Cepheusdirecthex: The funniest two are the use of the same random number everywhere19:00
directhexthat one is hilarious19:00
Cepheusthat their hypervisor (which is a stock one, and not for security) will happily assign you any specified memory chunk you ask for, including those used by the kernel and hypervisor itself19:01
=== richard is now known as Guest22159
Azelphurtook down the forum post and sent a mail to their abuse@, giving the system a chance :p19:24
HazRPGCepheus, directhex: Ha yeah, I remember seeing the CCC talk... I giggled myself senseless after watching that.19:28
HazRPGgord: Btw, I agree with Cepheus, the reason the PS3 has stood up this long wasn't because the PS3 was impossible to crack, it was because no one really cared to do anything since Linux was supported from the get-go.19:29
andylockranwahey, macbook on the way to me I think :)19:29
HazRPGgord: Heck, even I attempted to tamper with mine once I'd found out I couldn't get into my linux partition anymore.19:29
HazRPGgord: I mainly wanted to get my data off my hard drive, and recover the partition back for usable space to the console.19:30
HazRPGSpent countless hours trying to work out how they'd stored the data on the hard drive.19:31
Cepheusthey could have at least added a facility to recover such partitions19:31
HazRPGAlthough, I'm not really as talented as most of the hackers out there... so I just gave up, wiped it clean a good couple of times (after backing up saves, etc) and let the console deal with it.19:32
HazRPGstill have a dump of the whole hard drive though in raw format should anything ever come of it - its not a case that the data was sensitive material and the stuff on it lost, I was just mainly angry that I lost it in the first place - plus there might be a few files that I hadn't backed up on there.19:33
HazRPGCepheus: You'd think so wouldn't you :/19:33
jpdsphotorec is really good for these kinds of things.19:33
ali1234or just a hex editor19:34
ali1234actually step 1: strings -n 10 dump.bin | less19:35
HazRPGjpds: I doubt it, the whole drive gets encrypted in a proprietary format19:35
HazRPGjpds: Took me hours to get the computer to even realise there was a hard drive in there in the first place19:35
jpdsHazRPG: Nice.19:35
HazRPGjpds: otherwise it would have been dead easy to recover the files from it19:36
HazRPGali1234: hmm, would that really work?19:36
gordjust to point things out, linux was only removed because people were cracking it...19:37
gordit wasn't the other way around19:37
directhexgord, that's a convenient lie from sony btw19:37
gordsorry right yes, they removed it because they are evil and want to hurt you19:37
gordkunjan, hello!19:37
kunjanhai gord19:38
HazRPGgord: people weren't trying to crack it, people were trying to get more from their hardware than sony was allowing - not the same as cracking19:38
directhexgord, linux support was missing from early ps3 slim prototypes before the first linux-based hacking attempts were publicized19:38
gorddirecthex, it wasn't removed, it was never added19:38
dogmatic69could anyone tell me where is the 'correct' place to install apps?19:38
kunjansoftware centre19:38
gorddogmatic69, via the software centre? what are you trying to install and how?19:38
ali1234gord: hmm so why did they remove ps1 support? was that being used for cracking too?19:39
ali1234(or was it ps2?)19:39
dogmatic69./configure and make19:39
HazRPGdogmatic69: Software Centre is your best bet for most things, unless your confident with aptitude or synaptic19:39
directhexgord, it was removed. both the fat & slim run the same firmware19:39
dogmatic69HazRPG: that is not in apt-get19:40
gordali1234, sony paniced basically, i don't think they did it because of a specific problem but more because they just didn't want loose threads19:40
Cepheusgord: actually it was removed from the slim before that happened19:40
HazRPGali1234: PS2 ;)19:40
directhexgord, and the slim is entirely capable of running linux. the feature was removed from the firmware.19:40
gorddirecthex, it wasn't removed from the slim, it was *never* *added*19:40
gordi bought one, release day, didn't have the option from day one19:40
directhexgord, PRECISELY19:40
ali1234gord: so nothing to do with people not being willing to buy the latest iteration of some tired franchise if their old PS2 disc still works perfectly well?19:41
gordali1234, oh sorry i misread19:41
HazRPGali1234: I have a feeling they removed that because they thought the vulnerabilities in the PS2 chip that was inside the PS3 could be used against them. Which is why they started to manufacture future consoles after the initial 40/60GB's without that chip inside it - but why the removed the Software Emulation for the PS2 is beyond me19:41
gordali1234, they removed ps2 support to reduce costs iirc19:41
directhexthere's no "slim" versus "fat" firmwares. they run the same firmware. the firmware they put on the slim had a feature the hardware supported fine removed.19:41
HazRPGgord: The firmware in your slim is still the same as one in the fat ;)19:42
HazRPGgord: it was stripped out on purpose, and released as such.19:42
HazRPGSony has even admitted as such if I recall.19:43
gordHazRPG, the *product* did not come with linux support, from day one, it was neither added nor removed19:43
dogmatic69gord: so where is the place to compile this stuff?19:43
gordi'm going to go make a pizza, y'all can claim i removed linux support from it all you want19:43
dogmatic69dont want to really clutter my home dir19:43
directhex... how is this an argument?19:43
ali1234all i can say is kudos to graf_chokolo for publicly and visibly standing up to these people19:44
HazRPGdogmatic69: Ah, sorry didn't notice that19:44
KrimZonI just tried handbrake, but it only seemed to support mp4 and that h264 format, rather than the xvid I'd been encoding with dvd::rip19:45
KrimZonso I tested some stuff in mp4 but there was so much colour bleeding it looked like I'd stabbed a unicorn19:45
HazRPGali1234: and fail0verflow19:46
ali1234most people would not continue after sony raided their house.19:46
HazRPGdogmatic69: to compile you'll need to do it from command line19:47
dogmatic69HazRPG: my question was not how to compile it19:47
HazRPGmy mistake19:48
ali1234considering that you don't really have write access to anything outside ~19:48
ali1234except for /tmp, /var/tmp etc19:48
ali1234the answer is clearly ~19:48
HazRPGiirc just place the download anywere in ~, run the commands from there19:48
HazRPGsome coders have their code automatically compile (or is it make?) in the correct place for you19:50
KrimZoncould've been the turbo first pass though19:50
HazRPGali1234: wow I have so much to learn about make files19:52
HazRPGtrying to work out from the download where its trying to place it19:52
ali1234i wouldn't bother learning gnu make tbh19:52
ali1234learn cmake instead19:52
ali1234the trouble with make is for any none-trivial project you need autotools, and autotools seriously need to diaf19:53
HazRPGali1234: is that what you use?19:53
ali1234if i was going to make a none trivial project i would use cmake, sure19:53
ali1234for trivial stuff (that does not require autotools) make is fine19:53
ali1234but you can learn that in 10 minutes19:53
HazRPGali1234: just interested, since I would like to develop code for linux at some point19:54
HazRPGgetting sick of Windows coding19:54
HazRPGesp. since I'm trying my best to run away from it19:54
Cepheuscmake is a breath of fresh air19:55
ali1234well most likely you won't be making a new project from scratch, so you would use whatever the project uses19:55
ali1234probably only about 10 people in the whole world actually know how to do this with autotools19:55
Cepheusit also has good support for a large range of IDEs and build toolchains19:55
HazRPGtell you what, my php coding has been so much better since I've started focusing on linux more - love the fact that you can try out functions in the terminal19:56
ali1234if you are making a new project, you probably won't be making it in C, so again, make won't be much use to you19:56
ali1234if you actually are making a new project and doing it in C it's probably going to be highly OS specific and so won't need autotools anyway19:56
Cepheusautotools will generally on non-POSIX environment19:56
Cepheusali1234: Not necessarily. C can be very portable.19:57
ali1234no. just no.19:57
Cepheusgive me a language that is portable.19:57
HazRPGali1234: The project I have in mind when I get round to it, will mainly be C++ if I can help it - but I would really like it to be multi-platform from compile19:57
ali1234anything can be portable as long as you use the magic 1% of the language that works everywhere19:57
HazRPGbeen looking into compile time header checks, etc19:58
AlanBellyou should never have to think about which language to use for any project ever19:58
ali1234however, if you use java it's more like 50%, and if you use python it is more like 100%19:58
CepheusThe C standard library is generally standardised. things like sockets are easy to abstract19:58
HazRPGAlanBell: how'd ya mean?19:58
ali1234if you use C++ and Qt it is probably around 90%19:58
Cepheusand there are libraries that do this for you.19:58
HazRPGdogmatic69: have you managed to install that software btw?19:59
dogmatic69still waiting to know where i should stick it19:59
CepheusJVM is either written in C or C++19:59
dogmatic69HazRPG: ^19:59
CepheusPython is certainly written in C.19:59
ali1234who writes sockets code any more in this day and age?19:59
AlanBellif you are doing a Wordpress extension or Joomla plugin it will be php, if you are doing a Django based thing it will be python, if you are doing a device driver it will be C if you are hacking on Alfresco it will be Java19:59
HazRPGdogmatic69: noticed19:59
dogmatic69HazRPG: think someone said something19:59
ali1234python written in C by someone else than me19:59
HazRPGdogmatic69: well like I said, compile and make it anywhere in ~20:00
AlanBellif you are starting a new project from scratch you should already *know* what the best language in the world ever is20:00
AlanBellbecause if you don't you are not ready to start something from scratch20:00
HazRPGdogmatic69: it should just place itself in the right place, but if not... just do what I do and make a .myapps folder in your ~ and place it there20:00
dogmatic69HazRPG: ok, ill make 'program files' in ~ :D20:00
ali1234if you are writing a new thing from scratch, it probably means you hate all the old ones, and think they would be much better if the authors just used language X20:00
CepheusVirtually every general language has support for sockets, because they are *widely* used.20:00
HazRPGdogmatic69: best not to have spaces I find ;)20:00
dogmatic69lol, i know... just bringing some m$20:01
HazRPGdogmatic69: you could do either ~/programfiles or ~/.programfiles20:01
HazRPGthat way the folder is hidden :)20:01
ali1234Cepheus: i have not had to write code that manually opens sockets in years, because programming languages today are significantly higher level than that20:01
Cepheuslibraries like APR, NPR and Glib make portability in C trivial.20:02
ali1234the only reason anyone would actually write that code is in order to make compatibility libs, which as you point out, already exist in massive amounts20:02
dogmatic69by the way, any coders around... you should check out this 0MQ shit... its awesome20:02
AlanBellCepheus: cpython is written in c, but there are other pythons20:02
CepheusAlanBell: CPython is the standard and by far the leading implementation. PyPy, Jython et al are simply do not have the right level of stability and compatability for shipment in distributions or use in production environments20:03
AlanBellCepheus: sure, I don't disagree with any of that20:04
HazRPGali1234: I've done socket code for a Java app before.20:04
AlanBellI have done socket code in RPG on an AS/40020:04
HazRPGali1234: I hate to admit this, but one of the first few programs I'd ever written was also socket code in VB620:04
dogmatic69arggg... wtf is wrong with update manager20:05
dogmatic69stuck on libpango1.0-common for 10 min now20:05
AlanBellbunch of AS/400 developers wanted to know more about TCP/IP so I picked up a book about the RPG language and knocked together a simple chat responder you could telnet to in RPG as a training app20:05
CepheusCPython most likely supports more environments than the CLR, Jython has a huge memory overhead and slow startup time, and PyPy lacks wide platform support and stability.20:05
AlanBellthey said they had never seen code that advanced before20:05
HazRPGdogmatic69: I had issues with apt-get update earlier, was taking forever20:06
ali1234HazRPG: i hope it was 10+ years ago20:06
HazRPGAlanBell: heh same reason for my VB6 app20:06
HazRPGali1234: I was 16, so even longer than that20:06
ali1234well back then things were very different20:06
HazRPGali1234: mainly because I had access to VB6, and downloading took forever on dialup to get anything else20:07
ali1234if you want to write portable code today (ie windows/linux) then the only real choices you have are Qt and java, and in neither case will you ever have to worry about writing a makefile20:07
HazRPGali1234: My max connection speed was 16kbps20:07
HazRPGali1234: and that was if I was lucky!20:07
* HazRPG mumbles about stupid government based firewalls20:08
AlanBellali1234: python/gtk works fine20:08
CepheusI feel that while sockets are not a preferable way to program in modern days, understanding them is key to understanding network programming.20:08
ali1234but gtk... sucks20:08
HazRPGali1234: I'm planning a gaming engine... so Qt probably won't  be the best way to go20:08
ali1234python/qt works fine too20:08
ali1234HazRPG: do not write a game engine20:09
HazRPGCepheus: Agreed, my first socket code was for that reason.20:09
ali1234there aer already enough game engines20:09
dogmatic69rather build a cms :D20:09
HazRPGali1234: Don't worry, its not fully from scratch :P20:09
CepheusAlanBell: Distributing applications that are a mix of binary and script code is a bit iffy, especially with runtimes that don't come standard with OSX or Windows or are not widely installed on them, such as Python.20:11
HazRPGali1234: I'm not that insane :P20:11
HazRPGali1234: for rending I've already decided on using Ogre 3D20:11
ali1234yup, distributing python stuff on windows is a right pita20:12
AlanBellfair point, I tend not to have a distribution problem20:12
Cepheussame with Ruby and Perl20:12
HazRPGI never understood the craze behind Ruby20:13
ali1234HazRPG: it's trendy20:13
Cepheussame reason behind the Apple craze, it's easy on the eye ;)20:14
HazRPGI learned it because I was obsessed with RPG Maker back in 2000, but that was my only motivation behind it20:14
CepheusRuby has a lot of odd behaviors though, such as implicit function calling20:14
ali1234the idea behind all trendy languages can pretty much be summed up as "all the old languages suck, so if we just do everything differently than everything else, then we will be better"20:14
HazRPGah wait, wasn't 2000 when they added Ruby to it, think it was more like 2003/0420:15
HazRPGbut still20:15
HazRPGali1234: true...20:15
hamitrondon't some of the new languages make it "easier" when using with less knowledge?20:16
ali1234is that really easier though?20:16
ali1234you can write bad code in any language20:17
HazRPGhamitron: I think they're designed to be easier - but some just lack great functionality when your trying to do specific tasks20:17
AlanBellyeah, but languages that make you do your own pointer arithmetic always seemed rather undignified to me20:17
ali1234true enough, but languages without pointers have been around since at least basic20:17
HazRPGI remember basic :)20:18
ali1234so like 40 years20:18
Cepheuspointer work is a useful tool but it's easy to misuse or construct buggy code20:18
ali1234i'd like to see you write a device driver without pointers20:18
* AlanBell would not like to write a device driver20:19
HazRPGAlanBell: agreed20:19
CepheusLisp is _very_ old and has no pointers at all20:19
ali1234as such, it's lucky that C is not dead yet20:19
CepheusI don't see C being replaced by anything for portable systems programming.20:20
ali1234no one is even trying, because C pretty much got it perfect20:20
hamitrontbh, I find C easier than C++ :/20:21
ali1234that's because it *is* easier20:21
hamitronah :)20:22
HazRPGhamitron: I find it really depends what your trying to do20:22
hamitronso why everyone use it?20:22
CepheusC++ is sort of like C with an object-oriented model nailed to it20:22
ali1234C++ is C with a bunch of extra rules to stop idiots writing broken code20:22
HazRPGalthough, can't really make that judgement since I haven't done an awful lot with C20:22
HazRPGCepheus, ali1234: Yeah I agree with that.20:22
ali1234it's essentially C for assembly line programming20:23
Cepheusmost of the objective stuff feels like structs with scoping20:23
ali1234by which i mean where lots of people with very little actual skill each bash out a bit of the code and then you pray it all hangs together at the end20:23
ali1234this is the whole purpose of all OO languages btw20:23
ali1234nobody *ever* uses it for code resuse20:24
HazRPGali1234: really?20:24
HazRPGali1234: I do in my programming.20:24
ali1234that's because you're the only programmer on your projects20:24
ali1234i assume20:24
HazRPGali1234: For most things, yeah you would be right20:25
ali1234in large projects you hardly ever see code reuse, OO is used exclusively to stop other coders from misusing your objects20:25
ali1234which ends up where all objects are completely opaque black boxes20:25
ali1234which is fine when those objects actually work20:25
hamitron1 thing worries me about the direction of things...20:26
hamitronthere seems to be a focus on not using old methods20:26
hamitronlike, opengl depreciating stuff20:26
ali1234ok, in a slightly less hyperbolic explanation, C++ is C with extensions that allow the developer to make a contract about how the code is used20:26
ali1234if there's only 1 developer, this is not very helpful20:27
AzelphurAnyone got opinions on bong/evaporative cooling? Apparently it's more efficient than water with a radiator :P20:27
TheOpenSourcererAll the Farnham (ish) dwellers. #Farnham #Twestival tickets are available http://t.co/FRlV0so20:27
hamitronthe only sort bong I know....20:27
Azelphurhttp://www.overclock.net/attachments/phase-change/79656d1217920494-budget-subambient-temperatures-bong-anyone-bong-.jpg science!20:27
hamitronimho Azelphur, if you need more than a heatsink, you are pushing silicon too far20:28
Azelphurhamitron: so I should underclock? :D20:28
hamitronmaybe apply less thermal paste?20:28
ali1234you should buy a CPU that does not catch fire with the stock cooler20:28
HazRPGhamitron: don't you mean more?20:28
hamitronuse a massive copper heatsink20:29
hamitronyou want as little as possible20:29
Azelphuranyway I quite like the idea of doing some fun hackery and getting some overclocking going :D20:29
Cepheuslarge surface area, thinly spread20:29
HazRPGhamitron: I always thought you needed a nice thin layer over the whole surface20:29
Cepheusmaximum heat transfer20:29
Azelphurhamitron: I think I applied it correctly, I talked to an intel lady and she pretty much said my temps are close to normal20:30
ali1234Azelphur: what happened to oil tank cooling?20:30
Azelphurali1234: it's crap everyone decided20:30
hamitronthen intel have overcooked it... literally20:30
ali1234lolz, yeah20:30
Azelphurhamitron: apparently 85C is "normal" for my CPU20:30
ali1234my CPU is 39 degrees on normal use, 60 degrees on max20:31
HazRPGAzelphur: I thought it was 75'C?20:31
ali1234with stock cooler20:31
Azelphurali1234: mine is 40 at idle, but goes up to 94 if I 100% all cores20:31
hamitronif you pour coffee on it, there will be a weird reaction, but still the wrong thing to do20:31
HazRPGali1234: I must say I've never gotten mine over 60'C either20:31
dutchiepopey: you know how you tweeted about Win8 getting virtual desktops?20:31
AzelphurHazRPG: nah iirc intel said 85 under load20:31
hamitronI never got mine to 40 C :/20:31
hamitronand I BOINC it all day and night20:31
Azelphuranyway if I add decent cooling I can clock to 4 or 5ghz :D20:32
dutchiepopey: just listening to LugRadio ep 2 all the way from 2004 and they made a joke about how MS invented them :)20:32
Azelphurand then I'll be like yayfun20:32
hamitronI wouldn't clock20:32
hamitronjust chill20:32
HazRPGhamitron: That was me playing a game through Wine, rendering some 3D stuff at the same time that caused the temperature spike20:32
Azelphurclocking is fine as long as you keep the temps down20:32
Azelphurand I'd like to think once I add some decent cooling, it'll actually stay cooler than with the intel stock cooler20:32
AzelphurI'd like to aim for <70C under load20:33
hamitronAzelphur: turn off the central heating20:33
hamitrondedication my friend20:33
ali1234yes, what's your ambient temp?20:33
Azelphurhamitron: shit don't work anyway so it doesn't matter if it's on/off :D20:33
Azelphurali1234: 20-30C20:33
hamitronhow hot?20:33
ali123430 degrees ambient is borderline heatstroke territory :)20:34
Azelphurali1234: haha, in the summer my room goes to 3520:34
hamitronit is 11 C in here atm20:34
Azelphuraccording to my clock, anyway20:34
Azelphurmy clock that did temperature readouts died a while back, though :(20:34
hamitronyou could just get air conditioning for your case20:35
Azelphurneed to get a new one.20:35
hamitronI'm glad I decided not to get the i7 now20:35
hamitronwill chill with an i320:35
hamitrondual 3.2ghz is enough for me20:36
Azelphurhamitron: I bought this machine with the plan of aftermarket cooling and overclocking20:36
Azelphurit's what I wanted to do from the start20:36
Azelphurso I don't really see it as an issue :D20:36
Azelphurso really it's a case of what the optimal cooling solution is :D20:36
hamitronI remmeber a while back, you showed some mini cooling things20:36
hamitronget one of them ;)20:37
Azelphurand then playing how much can I overclock20:37
* hamitron shrugs20:37
Azelphurthat stuffs expensive :p20:37
hamitronah :)20:37
hamitronwe are the total opersite, I look for how to remove fans and cut costs ;/20:37
hamitronyou just blow things up20:38
Azelphurhamitron: haha, I spent 1.1k on this machine already, it's my baby :D20:38
Azelphuractually it's probably worth more than that because I used parts from my old computer20:38
hamitronI saw a good value all in one water cooling kit for 50 quid20:39
hamitronwould that not be ok?20:39
AzelphurTEC is actually cheaper than what I thought it was before :o20:39
Azelphurhttp://www.limitedgoods.com/itemView.php?ProdID=672127&source=FroogleUK&medium=free&campaign=FroogleUK_InStock o.O20:39
hamitronnot something like this: http://www.limitedgoods.com/itemView.php?ProdID=65826920:41
hamitronbut for your socket ofc20:41
Azelphurhaha it's so tiny :D20:42
Baikonurthat's what she said20:42
hamitronAzelphur: I think you should get one of these: http://www.maplin.co.uk/plug-in-mains-power-and-energy-monitor-3834320:45
hamitronand tell us the figures20:45
Azelphurhamitron: I'd have to get a few, I have 4 power strips in my room20:46
ali1234i have one of those20:46
ali1234it says my computer uses 120W at full load20:46
AzelphurWhat I've always kinda wanted to do is some wind power into a UPS20:46
hamitronis that about right?20:47
Azelphurbut I don't know how to, and my parents would have a fit if I even suggested it :P20:47
dogmatic69how can i remove this... Unpacking replacement libpango1.0-common ...20:47
ali1234Azelphur: you need a windmill, a dynamo, and a inverter20:47
dogmatic69i cant install anything as it keeps getting stuck20:47
ali1234you can buy them all at maplin20:47
Azelphurali1234: how much?20:47
hamitronbetter to use solar power20:47
ali1234depends how much power you want to generate20:47
Azelphurhamitron: I'm 5 miles away from the UK's largest wind farm, I figure my location is optimal for wind20:48
dogmatic69solar is poor at making power20:48
ali1234which reminds me, i was in JTF the other day and they had a petrol generator for £8020:48
Azelphurali1234: enough to power my room, lol20:48
hamitronsolar is quieter ;/20:48
Azelphurso quad monitor, my stupidly overclocked PC20:48
Azelphurand a few other bits20:48
dogmatic69Azelphur: ive investigated wind power and for 2kw you need about 3m dia wind turbine20:48
dogmatic69not very small20:49
ali12342.8kw too20:49
Cepheussolar isn't very redundant20:49
AzelphurI suppose technically I don't have to worry about it as my town is pretty much running off wind energy anyway20:49
ali1234you'd need to spend probably 5 figures or more to get that from solar or window power20:49
Azelphurso I'm clean energy automagically20:49
dogmatic69the circuitry is also very complicated. best one i have see is something that actually uses electro magnets to slow the blade down so it does not over rev, eg: spins faster == more current to the break20:50
Azelphuroh hey, it's the worlds biggest wind farm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanet_Wind_Farm20:50
Azelphuryay my area wins at clean energy20:50
HazRPGdogmatic69: try grabbing from the ubuntu site20:50
hamitroncan keep your wind turbines, I'll take a coal power station ty20:51
* dogmatic69 likes the fact that electric cars get power from coal stations20:51
hamitronyes, zero emisions baby!20:51
hamitronalthough, don't we mostly have gas?20:52
dogmatic69by 20something 10% of uk will be electric cars20:52
dogmatic69new nissan or something coming out for 25k after a 5k grant20:52
hamitroncan you even get a decent electric car yet?20:52
shaunoI've always been a big fan of nuclear.  they've gotta give in and admit it's the way to go eventually20:52
dogmatic692016 or something20:52
ali1234nuclear cars, sounds like a winner20:53
dogmatic69nuke is cool20:53
shaunosorry, we were talking about coal powered cars?20:53
hamitronI think they should increase the price of fuel and reduce the cars on the road20:53
HazRPGshauno: haha, would be interesting if they could get it to work20:53
shaunoHazRPG: I mean in general20:53
Azelphur"Someone crashed in London, it's gone now"20:53
dogmatic69always funny reading stats on nuclear subs... range: unlimited20:53
Azelphur"We've announced a new capitol city, New London"20:53
HazRPGshauno: once the nuclear division starts, there's no stopping it20:53
shaunofor regular power stations20:54
hamitronif we all drive nuclear cars, can we all drink red wine while driving?20:54
HazRPGshauno: I guess... but in a car how would it work exactly, since a car isn't exactly turned on all day long20:55
shaunoHazRPG: I never said in a car.  that's ali1234 being obtuse as usual20:55
HazRPGmy mistake20:55
shaunoI dont' get why we're still milking gas & coal stations when we've got a perfectly good alternative20:55
dogmatic69HazRPG: its not like you would run out of fuel if you left it running20:55
hamitronwhere do we put the waste?20:55
Cepheushamitron is correct20:56
hamitronI always am? ;)20:56
Cepheuswe also have a large infrastructure for coal and gas power already20:56
HazRPGdogmatic69: true..20:56
Cepheusbuilding nuclear reactors doesn't come free20:56
dogmatic69shauno: because petrol giants like shell bp etc keep paying the alternative sources to shut up20:56
ali1234mainly because everyone got really scared of anything involving the word "nuclear" during the cold war20:56
HazRPGhamitron: instead of fuel-pumps, we have fuel-dumps xD20:56
shaunoeh, they've been reprocessing fuel for years now20:57
shaunoit doesn't all get buried under drigg anymore20:57
hamitronI think there is a lot of debate about if nuclear is actually cost effective. Each industry for each method likes to round figures in their own favour :/20:57
dogmatic69thing i dont understand is crude oil -> diesel is easier than crude oil -> petrol and petrol is cheaper20:57
hamitrondiesel should be banned20:58
hamitronend of that ;/20:58
HazRPGhamitron: might not be cost effective, but its not like its ever going to run out as quick - I think is the main argument about it20:58
dogmatic69hamitron: you cant run tractors on petrol, not enough power20:59
dogmatic69~= no more food20:59
ali1234petrol is cheaper by the gallon but but deisel has a higher energy density so you cannot directly compare prices20:59
HazRPGhamitron: nah, it shouldn't be banned, it should just be used for a different purpose - since we still get diesel as a by-product from crude oil anyways20:59
shaunosad thing is the UK used to have some of the most efficient nuclear plants going, but we lost the edge20:59
hamitrondiesel should be banned from road cars I mean20:59
ali1234it is20:59
ali1234well, tax free deisel is21:00
dogmatic69ali1234: good point, but that does not justify the cost... it should be manufacturing price + x%21:00
HazRPGI love how the discussions on here shift so quickly xD21:00
hamitrondangerous :/21:00
Cepheuswhat's dangerous about diesel?21:00
hamitronthe layer of it left on the road, sliperry when it rains21:01
ali1234not much21:01
ali1234that's not just deisel21:01
HazRPGI was just about to say21:01
ali1234it's all the crap that comes out of all cars and vehicles21:01
Cepheusoften engine oil21:01
ali1234let's ban all vehicles \o/21:01
ali1234then the roads will be safe for everyone21:02
HazRPGali1234: then we wouldn't even need roads! \o/21:02
hamitronI would reduce the number of cars as well :)21:02
ali1234yeah, then we wouldn't have to pay road tax to keep them repaired21:02
ali1234sounds like a good idea to me21:02
ali1234throwing the baby out with the bath water? nah21:03
HazRPGali1234: best thing yet, never will the words "pot-holes causes havoc once again" on the news \o/ :D21:03
ubuntuuk-planet[Alan Lord] Packt Publishing Supports Open Source by $300,000 (So far) - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/03/02/packt-publishing-supports-open-source-by-300000-so-far/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=packt-publishing-supports-open-source-by-300000-so-far21:03
hamitronbut the very least we could do, is reduce the distances we move ourselves and everything21:03
dsaswe don't pay "road tax" for roads.21:03
HazRPGdsas: those of us who have cars do :P21:04
hamitronand motorbikes ;/21:04
dsasit's vehicle excise duty. It goes into general taxation, and road works are paid for out of general taxation (or via PFI)21:04
dsas(and depending on the road, out of council tax)21:05
dsasthe money hasn't been reserved/earmarked for roads for about 70/80 years or so....21:07
dsasuhm </pedantry>21:08
hamitronslows down traffic at least ;)21:09
hamitrona challange to get to your distination21:09
hamitronRoad Rash pothole edition21:09
dogmatic69hamitron: telecommuting ftw21:09
HazRPGdsas: heh, this is true21:16
HazRPGhamitron: roflysst xD21:16
AzelphurAnyone know much about wifi range extending?21:26
AzelphurI want it to be seamless so not requiring you connect to another router or have a connection drop21:26
HazRPGAzelphur: get a bigger 'tenna21:26
AzelphurHazRPG: find me an antenna that'll go through a huge dividing wall into my houses extension21:27
Azelphurnothing gets out there, it even messes up mobile phone signal21:27
Azelphurpassage, into the kitchen, enjoy your 0 bars signal :P21:27
Azelphur5 bars when you step out of the kitchen lol21:28
MartijnVdSAzelphur: I have full signal all around my house21:30
MartijnVdSAzelphur: but when I walk from my front door to my back door (or back) while making a call, it will drop21:30
AzelphurMartijnVdS: you don't live in a 3 story victorian building :D21:30
MartijnVdSAzelphur: I live on the 7th floor :)21:30
Azelphuryea but you don't provide wifi for the other 6 floors21:31
AzelphurI do :p21:31
MartijnVdSAzelphur: ah, I'm talking about 2G/3G signal21:31
Azelphurbut yea wifi wise I'm in a 3 story house and there are 2 attics a cellar and an extension21:31
Azelphurso I totally need some range extension :)21:32
MartijnVdSAzelphur: nah, you need multiple APs and some wire to them21:32
Azelphuryea that's what I've been doing, and setting all the SSIDs to the same name21:32
MartijnVdSAzelphur: 802.11n concurrent dualband linked with gbit ;)21:32
Azelphurbut the connection drops when you switch, and my brothers dumb windows laptop always picks the router with the lowest signal so he rages at me21:32
MartijnVdSAzelphur: are they in routing mode? set them to "bridge" (access point) mode21:33
MartijnVdSAzelphur: or don't use the WAN port for uplinking (except on the one that's connected to The World :)21:33
Azelphurthat's a lot of o's21:33
MartijnVdSali1234: NAT on NAT is worse than not using the WAN port21:34
Azelphurthat's how I have it wired atm, one main router, and all the other routers are just networked into eachother21:34
ali1234what channels are you using?21:34
Azelphur1 6 and 1121:35
AzelphurMartijnVdS: so the wan ports on the secondary routers are empty :P21:35
MartijnVdSif you're using N, the channels are wider.. I have my Fritz!box autochannel \o/21:35
ali1234ensure that the laptop is actually capable of using all those channels21:35
MartijnVdSali1234: 1,6,11 are always usable.. 12/13/14 might be meh21:35
MartijnVdSali1234: also the "A" channels (5GHz)21:36
ali1234that doesn't mean they will actually work21:36
CepheusI can get a wifi signal in the garage in the bottom of my garden, though the fact that the room the modem is in has the largest patio door I've ever seen pointing in that direction probably helps21:36
MartijnVdSali1234: I've never had a device that worked on some channels but not others (except 12/13)21:36
AzelphurMartijnVdS: the main router has N but the secondary ones don't21:36
ali1234plenty of cards have broken drivers that will just refuse to work on a certain channel21:36
Azelphurmaybe I should invest in some cheap dd-wrt capable routers that can do N and bridging?21:36
hamitronI'd just tell your brother real men use wires21:36
MartijnVdSAzelphur: that might be the cause of droppage.. what happens when you set the main one to B+G21:36
ali1234so i would shuffle the channels around21:37
ali1234or failing that the routers21:37
ali1234so he is nearest the one that actually works with his laptop21:37
ali1234bridging won't help you in any way21:38
Azelphurwon't it?21:38
ali1234wireless bridging that is21:38
Azelphuras I said I don't like dropping when walking through the house21:38
ali1234you are already bridging the Aps with the wired network21:38
ali1234bridging does not solve that problem21:39
ali1234if you have roaming configured as you say, you should not drop21:39
AzelphurI see21:40
Azelphurall I have is everything on the same SSID, different channels21:40
Azelphurand all the routers are basically switches connected to the main one21:40
Azelphurand the WAN ports are empty, apart from the main one21:40
exobuzznice! been waiting for that :)21:52
=== cbx333 is now known as cbx33
bigcalmChrist on a bike!22:01
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
bigcalmTweet about going up to Edinburgh and instantly get followed by 2 users. Now waiting for the spam22:02
ubuntuuk-planet[Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E01  New Frontier - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/02/s04e01-new-frontier/22:03
=== richard is now known as Guest98486
dogmatic69could someone help me with making an alias / bash method to run a few commands22:27
dogmatic69want to delete some files, then run a command and delete more files22:27
AlanBelldogmatic69: you can put a sequence of commands in a text file, call it something .sh and make it executable and that should about do it22:34
dogmatic69let me try22:34
dogmatic69one per line?22:34
mgdmmake the top line look like this:22:34
mgdmthen you're good to go :)22:35
dogmatic69one command per line then?22:35
dogmatic69hows this? http://bin.cakephp.org/view/22912153922:40
dogmatic69it works, am i doing something bad?22:40
dogmatic69getting sick of broken updates22:40
AlanBelldogmatic69: not sure I would automate that22:41
dogmatic69its such a pain to do all the time22:41
dogmatic69happens once a week atleast22:41
AlanBellnot for me22:41
dogmatic69for me it does22:41
dogmatic69now its getting stuck on libpango1.0-common22:42
dogmatic69before my cpu was overclocked and popey somehow put 1 + 1 together and i un-overclocked it, worked for few weeks22:43
dogmatic69now starting again with this22:43
popeyi wouldn't do that22:43
mgdmI wouldn't do that either...22:44
popeythat lock files exists for a reason22:44
popeydiagnose that first22:44
dogmatic69me: update never works. popey: are you overclocked? me: o.o22:44
popeyalso figure out at the time when updates fail22:44
popeyi have overclocked my desktop before22:44
popeynot at the moment22:44
dogmatic69popey: it happens at the time i type apt-get upgrade :/22:44
popeydont type that then22:44
popeyseriously, dont22:45
dogmatic69well i really want to type apt-get install uuid-dev22:45
popeyright, so you have an overclocked machine?22:45
dogmatic69*did*, was months back22:45
popeyok, so now, does it error/22:45
dogmatic69started again22:45
popeyright, 1) dont do sudo apt-get upgrade22:45
popeydo sudo apt-get dist-upgrade22:45
popey2) post your /etc/apt/sources.list22:45
dogmatic69intel quad core, q8200 8gigs ram x64 10.10 etc22:46
popey(and any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/22:46
popeypastebin them22:46
dogmatic69borked: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/43065120222:47
dogmatic69and now everything is locked :/22:47
popeyok, dont do anything22:48
dogmatic69file list22:48
popeywait one moment22:49
dogmatic69source.list http://bin.cakephp.org/view/187442905922:49
popeydogmatic69: how much disk space do you have?22:51
popeydf -h ?22:51
dogmatic69 /dev/sda1             895G   98G  752G  12% /22:52
dogmatic69few spare meg's there22:53
popeyjust a bit22:54
popeycan you pastebin /var/log/dpkg.log ?22:54
dogmatic69i thought i had a 500gig... oh well22:54
popeyis the terminal still sat there?22:54
popeyyou havent killed it?22:54
dogmatic69killed it :/22:54
dogmatic69can run it again22:54
popeyrun sudo apt-get dist-upgrade22:55
dogmatic69got my quick bash to fix it22:55
popeyI didnt say kill it :)22:55
dogmatic69ok, run it again22:56
popeyin another terminal, run top22:56
dogmatic69does this... http://bin.cakephp.org/view/43065120222:56
popeysee whats eating the box22:56
dogmatic69just sitting there22:56
dogmatic69nothing eats this box :D22:56
popeyok, leave it running22:56
* popey has a command that would eat it :)22:56
popey10 times over22:56
dogmatic69please show me22:56
popeyno :)22:56
popeyI'd get kicked from the channel :)22:56
popeycan you open a terminal22:57
popeyand run top22:57
popeysee whats at the top22:57
popeyor that22:57
dogmatic69colors :)22:57
dogmatic69google chrome is 4% ram, highest22:57
popeycan you run top, not htop22:57
popeythen press q22:58
popeythen highlight it all and pastebin22:58
dogmatic69oooh.. just remebered i installed some pastebin app22:58
dogmatic69can pipe stuff to pastebin some how22:58
dogmatic69thats it22:58
popeyyeah, but for now, just clicky click22:58
dogmatic69filling cakephp's bin with ubuntu22:59
popeywhat on earth you running on that22:59
popeyload avergae of 522:59
dutchieit could be a 5 core machine23:00
dogmatic694 core23:00
popeydoesnt matter23:00
popeyits still loaded23:00
dogmatic69popey: i have loads open23:00
dutchiei was thinking the other direction23:00
popey24GB SWAP!?23:00
popeyyou running SAP?23:00
dogmatic69that is ubuntu installer -> next -> next -> next -> kthnksbye23:01
popeydogmatic69: ps aux | pastebinit23:01
dogmatic69swap is *never* even used23:01
popeywell, yeah, with 8GB, I'd imagine not much :)23:01
popeybig fat gaping space on disk :)23:02
dogmatic69popey: you mean the 800gigs?23:02
* dogmatic69 has pastebinit at work :/23:02
dogmatic69400 tabs in chrome, cherokee, mysql, postgres cgi ... it all adds up23:03
dogmatic69and firebloat23:03
dogmatic69things still snappy though23:03
popeyi see lots of dpkg there23:04
popeyright, do this23:04
popeysudo killall dpkg23:04
popeysudo apt-get dist-upgrade23:04
popeythats quite a monster you have there :)23:05
HazRPG24GB swap!!23:05
dogmatic69E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)23:05
dogmatic69HazRPG: thank ubuntu's installer... i loled when i saw it too23:05
popeysudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock23:06
popeyps aux | grep dpkg23:06
popeymake sure none running23:06
dogmatic69should i kill that terminal now23:06
popeyoh, yes, sorry23:06
HazRPGdogmatic69: heh, that's why I always set the partitions up manually - I prefer my choices to an automagic one any day23:06
popeywe have boxes at work with 32GB SWAP23:06
popey20GB is the min required for SAP23:06
dogmatic69HazRPG: first time just about when i built this one23:06
ali1234i have 32GB swap23:07
dogmatic69how much ram?23:07
ali1234not sure why tho, the computer basically locks hard as soon as anything tries to use any large amount of it23:07
HazRPGpopey: well I can understand if it has SAP though23:07
dogmatic69popey: ps aux | grep dpkg spits out loads of stuff23:07
popeydogmatic69: even after sudo killall dpkg23:07
mgdmI used to do the 2x RAM for swap thing, but nowadays I just have about the same amount as I have RAM - not that it ever gets used unless I'm using Eclipse. :)23:07
dogmatic69popey: yip23:08
popeyps aux | grep dpkg23:08
popeypastebin pls23:08
dogmatic69its not pretty http://bin.cakephp.org/view/112827354423:08
HazRPGmgdm: heh, I only ever did the 2xRAM thing back when I had only  < 2GB RAM23:08
mgdmworked well back in 64MB RAM days ;)23:09
HazRPGbut with 6GB of RAM, I thought having 12GB swap would be insane23:09
ali1234i discovered that if you use imagemagick to resize images downwards, it uses 2.5x the size of the uncompressed input image in memory23:09
dogmatic69HazRPG: i think with 8gigs, i could get away with 1byte of swap23:09
popeydogmatic69: sudo kill -9 3883 5225 9052 9601 1001023:09
HazRPGdogmatic69: you'd be surprised what still uses swap even when you have lots of RAM ;)23:09
ali1234everything does23:09
ali1234because linux will swap out inactive ram to use it for disk cache23:10
dogmatic69popey: still the same output for the grep23:10
HazRPGali1234: hehe, I'm no linux guru, but that's one thing I definitely know about :)23:10
* hamitron has no swap23:11
HazRPGhamitron: :o23:11
* dogmatic69 wants ssd... hate waiting for reboot23:11
hamitron2gb ram is plenty on a machine that does nothing imo23:11
HazRPGhmm, question: Is restarting X != full reboot?23:11
mgdmX is just the graphical bit - it sits atop the system in a way not disimilar to Win3.1 on DOS23:12
HazRPGwell I knew it was the graphical part that sat on top, but I always thought it would kill the graphical apps that were sat running too23:14
mgdmit will23:14
ali1234it does23:14
hamitronnot always23:14
shaunoit does.  but just the graphical apps.  the OS itself doesn't really care if X comes or goes23:15
hamitronI had a screwed firefox not close23:15
ali1234unless they have gone zombie23:15
ali1234yeah firefox loves to do that23:15
hamitrontbh, the speed of ubuntu statup, a full restart is no problem these days :)23:15
HazRPGthis is true23:16
shaunoI'm surprised anyone still uses firefox :/  it's kinda lost the vigor of youth23:16
popeyextensions seems to be the common reason23:16
ali1234chromium lacks so much stuff it is unusable23:16
HazRPGI've reduced my grub to 1s delay, since I'm usually going to press a key if I was going to pick something anyways23:17
ali1234like an ad blocker that actually works23:17
hamitronfirefox uses less ram ;)23:17
ali1234live bookmarks23:17
dutchiei have a mental ad blocker23:17
ali1234and a sensible UI23:17
hamitronand firefox is a nicer name23:17
hamitronchromium is just...23:17
dutchiei switched to chrome because it had a prettier logo23:18
HazRPGchromium is always going to be unstable though - that's the whole point of that project23:18
HazRPGits basically just code that gets added in as and when23:18
hamitrondutchie: I'll give you the logo bit ;)23:18
ali1234don't care about that23:18
HazRPGwhich is why iron and chrome are better, since it's essentially the stable section of the codebase23:19
HazRPGI'll give you that extensions is really really lacking23:19
dogmatic69popey: now grep only has23:19
dogmatic691000      3528  0.0  0.0   8956   876 pts/0    S+   23:18   0:00 grep --color=auto dpkg23:19
dutchiei find chrome perfectly usable23:19
ali1234i do not appreciate having to wade through the youtube homepage to find new subscription videos23:20
ali1234or google reader either for that matter, it is no better23:20
HazRPGdutchie: same :)23:20
shaunoI just find firefox is quickly going the same way as seamonkey.  the fresh start from mozilla seems to have taken all the same design choices and ended up in the same place23:21
dutchiemaybe FF4 will change all that23:21
dutchieand FF5, 6 and 7 by the end of the year or whatever23:21
HazRPGFF4 is shaping along nicely, I must admit23:21
dogmatic69be running ff20 by December23:22
shaunoI might try 4 some time, see if it can manage a 12hr shift without eating over half my machine's ram23:22
popeydogmatic69: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade23:22
dogmatic69popey: moans about sudo dpkg --configure -a23:23
popeydo that23:23
HazRPGshauno: one thing I think is still a shame about FF4, is that it still hasn't got into its skull that separate processes is a better idea :/23:23
dogmatic69popey: \o/ think its running now23:23
dogmatic69not stuck at the other place atleast23:24
popeygood good23:24
dogmatic69thanks :)23:24
HazRPGI think plugins work better in FF4 though, when something is dying out, it kills that... but I don't think tabs do yet23:24
dogmatic69popey: i think the problem is from 'sleep' mode23:24
shaunoHazRPG: in theory, they shouldn't be.  MDI has never needed to do that.23:24
popeydogmatic69: could well be23:25
shaunoall this mess with trying to stick each tab in it's own process, all anyone actually hopes to do with it is contain flash crashes better23:25
dogmatic69often its bombs out when going into sleep mode or coming out of it23:25
HazRPGshauno: and java, and javascript?23:25
ali1234javascript rarely causes browser crashes23:26
ali1234java is quite bad23:26
ali1234basically plugins are bad23:26
ali1234it should be running only plugins in a different process23:27
HazRPGali1234: guessing you've never accidentally gone on a site where javascript attempts to have an alertbox open and you've just had to kill the whole browser before23:27
ali1234yes well, that's a not a crash23:28
HazRPGtrue, but I have seen javascript do some wacky stuff before (even on sane sites like gmail)23:29
shaunoI've got bigger beef with ff than process containment.  I crash it 3 times a day at work, like clockwork.23:30
HazRPGI agree that plugins should be treated as independent, along with custom created scripts (addons, extensions, etc)23:30
HazRPGshauno: memory overload :(23:31
HazRPGshauno: that kills me the most too23:31
shaunoHazRPG: nah.  it doesn't like being on the non-primary screen when XP's screensaver kicks in23:31
HazRPGI've managed to see firefox take up 2GB of RAM before and was soooooo sluggish! I only had 2 tabs open at the time too23:31
shaunoI can't change the screensaver timeout at work, so it crashes at breakfast, lunch, and my afternoon break.23:32
HazRPGshauno: really? I've never seen that before23:32
shaunono? I've done it consistently since 2.023:33
HazRPGshauno: see I've had my whole RAM been eaten up since 2.023:33
HazRPG1.x was slow... but was a damn-sight better than 2.x23:34
shaunohaven't been able to replicate it on mac or linux, but on xp, it seems to hate resolution changes & the screensaver.  but only when it's sat on screen 323:34
HazRPGshauno: ah, I've never had 3 screens - 2 max23:34
HazRPGguessing they didn't factor in for >3 screen users23:35
shaunogrumpy today :)23:40
HazRPGshauno: you? me?23:40
HazRPGheh, thought it was a bit of both really ^^23:42
shaunoI think being woken up by the bank being idiots really did ruin the entire day23:43
HazRPGI got woken up by some guy trying to sell me doors, and after I'd managed to get to sleep... an automated phone call to tell me my sister's stuff had been sent T_T23:47
HazRPGI don't mind being woken up once, but doing it twice or more in a row... is just frustrating23:47
HazRPGshauno: so I feel for you, know your pain23:48
HazRPGshauno: what happened with the bank exactly?23:48
* HazRPG imagines a scenario where they were saying "hello mr shauno, can we just ask you a few details ... <detail section> ... right we've just blocked such and such because you don't deal with such and such ... so now we've blocked... and your screwed... haha... goodbike!"23:50
shaunohah, not far off23:50
shaunothey cut our cards off because a transaction showed up in another country the same day as we used them in this one23:51
HazRPGI get it all the time :/ bunch of so and so's that they are23:51
HazRPGshauno: ouch23:51
HazRPGshauno: ironically, I get that a fair bit when trading with international sites23:52
shaunothey usually freak out every time the mrs goes back to the US.  this time they did it a week after she came back :/23:52
HazRPGshauno: do what I do... ring up before leaving and notify them of days she'll be away, and tell them you'll still be where you are23:53
HazRPGthat way they don't just insta-ban23:53
HazRPGshauno: one thing I like about HSBC internet banking, you can send them a message notifying them of your travel details, so that they don't screw with you while your away23:54
HazRPGI learned that one from my travels to the philippines23:54
HazRPGI used the card here in the UK, to get a book and some food while waiting for the plane... when I got there, I used their machine to get some local currency out23:55
HazRPGwell, it made me look stupid at the airport being at an ATM machine with a phone call from my bank...23:55
dogmatic69 any recommendations for a screen recorder23:56
HazRPGwhich cost me ~£10 :/23:56
dogmatic69HazRPG: barclays has a thing online to put dates and places you are going23:57
HazRPGdogmatic69: I prefer the HSBC way, since you can outline your travel arrangements better23:57
shaunoHazRPG: I did the standing around looking stupid thing first time I tried to use a chip & pin card in the real word.  I only got a card to use online, so had no idea what the pin was23:58
* dogmatic69 wanted a hsbc account23:58
HazRPGdogmatic69: I mean in shauno's case, he's still at home while his mrs is away to the states23:58
HazRPGdogmatic69: I think I got a reply within an hr or sending it too to confirm that it was on record :)23:59

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