[14:59] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:59. The chair is NCommander.
[14:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:59]  * rsalveti waves
[15:00] <ogra> foopl
[15:00] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
[15:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
[15:00] <NCommander> who's here?
[15:01] <NCommander> There are no standing action items
[15:01] <NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:01] <janimo> hellp
[15:01] <NCommander> ptopic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
[15:02] <rsalveti> help or hello? :P
[15:02] <ogra> lol
[15:02] <janimo> hello for now
[15:02] <janimo> it may beocme help later in the cycle ;)
[15:02]  * ogra was wondering exactly the same
[15:02] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:02] <GrueMaster> i'm not
[15:03] <ogra> geez, the overall Wi status looks scary
[15:03] <ogra> NCommander, the second link should be beta ;)
[15:03]  * NCommander grumbles
[15:03] <GrueMaster> It will be next week.
[15:04] <GrueMaster> This week is still Alpha 3.
[15:04] <ogra> heh
[15:04] <ogra> for some minutes
[15:04] <NCommander> no beta page doesn't exist
[15:04] <GrueMaster> And it's a good indicator of how we did.
[15:04] <janimo> for some reason 5 of my WIs were eaten by the parser and I cannot figure out why
[15:04] <ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta.html
[15:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta.html
[15:05] <ogra> nah
[15:05] <NCommander> I forgot to update teh WI tracker to postpone his WIs due to spec redesign. that's fixed now
[15:05] <rsalveti> janimo: haha, true: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/u/jani-natty-alpha-3.html
[15:05] <ogra> looks broken
[15:05] <NCommander> anyway, can I move on?
[15:06] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:06]  * ogra glares at http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/
[15:06] <ogra> janimo, so whats needed to get us the hedless image ?
[15:06] <ogra> NCommander, no :P
[15:07] <NCommander> ogra: I need to land janimo's branch
[15:07] <GrueMaster> ogra: Can you save that for image status?
[15:07] <ogra> (why do we have an 11.05)
[15:07] <ogra> GrueMaster, still, there seems to be action needed to fix the WI tracker
[15:07] <NCommander> ogra: probably for Linaro
[15:07] <ogra> beta is broken completely
[15:07] <NCommander> [action] ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:07] <ogra> and there shouldnt be ubuntu-armel-11.05
[15:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:07] <GrueMaster> Beta hasn't started yet.
[15:08] <ogra> doesnt matter for the tracker
[15:08] <ogra> it just reports how the whiteboards are set
[15:08] <ogra> date has no influence
[15:08] <janimo> ogra, I don't know what else is needed, these build scripts are not well documented, let alone I am not working on the actual ones running the builds
[15:08] <janimo> so I hope NCommander spots any irregularities
[15:08] <ogra> action: everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:09] <ogra> NCommander, ^^^
[15:09] <janimo> or we try and if there are errors we fix after A3
[15:09] <NCommander> I had gotten sidetracked by mono and then alpha 3 to land the headless branch
[15:09] <ogra> i'll find out whats needed and we can do that offline
[15:09] <janimo> NCommander, sure np
[15:09] <NCommander> now can we get back on topic on Unity 2d Status?!
[15:09] <ogra> NCommander, right, please do that with high prio now that you are done with mono (assuming you are)
[15:10] <ogra> NCommander, if you would wait until getting an answer on the move request that would be easier
[15:10] <NCommander> ogra: I'm not, and I don't have a local d-cd instance to test. You may be better off landing the code
[15:10] <NCommander> ogra: I did wait, there wasn't a response either way.
[15:10] <ogra> can everyone please move the remaining a3 items on theit blueprints
[15:11] <ogra> *their
[15:11] <janimo> can anyone see why this whiteboard is not parsed correctly? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:11] <ogra> we have 11 open items there
[15:11] <janimo> all those WIs are not showing up in the graphs
[15:12] <ogra> lets do that off meeting, to me it looks fine
[15:13] <ogra> NCommander, can you please add the above action
[15:13] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:13] <NCommander> [action] ogra + janimo to look at why WI don't appear on other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra + janimo to look at why WI don't appear on other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:13]  * ogra shakes head
 action: everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
 NCommander, ^^
[15:13] <NCommander> grumble
[15:13] <ogra> jani and i dont need an action for that
[15:14] <NCommander> [action] everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:14] <ogra> thanks
[15:14] <ogra> move
[15:14] <NCommander> ogra: I did
[15:14] <ogra> premature again
[15:14] <ogra> well
[15:14] <ogra> it kind of works ...
[15:14] <ogra> thats all status i have, many bugs open, upstream is working on them
[15:14] <ogra> move
[15:15] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
[15:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
[15:15] <ogra> very bad from what i grokked from the mail discussion
[15:15] <rsalveti> for omap 3 one the master-next will get merged with 38-rc7 release
[15:15] <ogra> seems .38 exploded with the last rebase
[15:15] <rsalveti> now for omap 4 things are still bad
[15:15] <rsalveti> the current blocker issue is the mmc crash
[15:15] <rsalveti> as reported by cooloney
[15:16] <ogra> didnt he also talk about build issues ?
[15:16] <rsalveti> so this should be sorted this week, and probably merged at our ti-omap4-dev then
[15:16] <ogra> or are these solved
[15:16] <rsalveti> ogra: we got patches for that already
[15:16] <ogra> ah, good
[15:16] <ogra> seems i missed a mail
[15:16] <ogra> or two
[15:17] <rsalveti> but at least with current tests, it seems that it's kind of working well
[15:17] <ogra> plan is to move to .38 as soon as these are solved
[15:17] <rsalveti> yup
[15:17] <ogra> which means also trhat we'll lose .35
[15:17] <rsalveti> it'll be merged at ti-omap4-dev, then we'll request more testing
[15:17] <rsalveti> once it's ok, we'll pull as the default kernel for omap4
[15:17] <ogra> i was wondering if it would make sense to have an upload to canonical-arm-dev PPA
[15:17] <ogra> of the final .35 branch
[15:18] <ogra> so we have a fallback if .38 isnt usable at all during our work
[15:18] <rsalveti> we could create a public ppa for it, if needed
[15:18] <rsalveti> build at canonical-arm and then copy to the public one
[15:18] <ogra> i just thought to make sure we dont get blocked by it
[15:18] <ogra> seems to be not very rebase-safe to me atm
[15:18] <ogra> so it might explode again next rebase
[15:19] <GrueMaster> Well, if we are testing it on the side before making it default, we should catch most issues.
[15:19] <rsalveti> well, at least 38 is almost final already
[15:19] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: sure
[15:19] <ogra> right, mainline is
[15:19] <ogra> but the patches still look shaky
[15:19] <rsalveti> and will be for a while
[15:19] <ogra> right
[15:19] <rsalveti> we just need to test before pushing
[15:19] <rsalveti> then we should be ok
[15:19] <rsalveti> GrueMaster can be our go/no-go
[15:20] <GrueMaster> yep
[15:20] <ogra> i dont want to overload him though ;)
[15:20] <ogra> he is busy enough
[15:20] <rsalveti> not a lot to test
[15:20] <ogra> k
[15:20] <ogra> then lets drop the PPA idea
[15:20] <rsalveti> I don't expect a kernel update more than once a week
[15:20] <NCommander> can I move on?
[15:20] <GrueMaster> ogra: What say I make the call of how busy I am?
[15:20] <rsalveti> any other question?
[15:20] <ogra> you typed yep when i was still typing :)
[15:21] <NCommander> QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <NCommander> bah
[15:21] <NCommander> paste failure
[15:21] <NCommander> can I move on?
[15:21] <rsalveti> you're having serious problems with your paste
[15:21] <ogra> jep
[15:21] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <NCommander> rsalveti: I've been thold this is proper behavior
[15:21] <rsalveti> hehe, then you're the issue
[15:21] <ogra> fix your palms ?
[15:22] <GrueMaster> Alpha 3 testing was brutal (again).  Made it through at the last minute.
[15:22] <ogra> or your fingers :)
[15:22] <ogra> GrueMaster, we werent the last ;)
[15:22] <ogra> kubuntu was respun this morning
[15:22] <rsalveti> and most important, we made it :-)
[15:22] <ogra> yeah
[15:22] <GrueMaster> It won't past muster.
[15:22] <ogra> awesome job !!!
[15:22] <ogra> GrueMaster, NCommander thanks for making it possible
[15:22] <GrueMaster> I also spot tested kubuntu last night.  It has more serious problems.
[15:23] <ogra> rsalveti, and thanls for the right suggestion at the right moment ;)
[15:23] <ogra> GrueMaster, kubuntu x86/amd64 was respun
[15:23] <rsalveti> ogra: haha :-)
[15:23] <GrueMaster> Oh.
[15:23] <ogra> not armel
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Well, armel was also respun by NCommander at my request.
[15:24] <ogra> oh, twice ?
[15:24] <ogra> i only saw 03 and no 03.1 when i tested
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Thought it may be also hung up by the same issue.  Turns out it has additional critical failure issues.
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Timing.
[15:24] <ogra> (or did you talk about kubuntu armel now)
[15:25] <GrueMaster> Yes.
[15:25] <ogra> ah, confusing :)
[15:25] <GrueMaster> We announced we were respinning in #u-release.
[15:25] <ogra> yeah
[15:25] <ogra> i thought you talked about netbook
[15:26] <ogra> (ubuntu)
[15:26] <GrueMaster> It would be far easier to understand what I was talking about if there were less interuptions.  I haven't stopped talking about kubuntu.
[15:27] <GrueMaster> At any rate, I have nothing constructive to add further.
[15:27] <GrueMaster> NCommander: move on, please.
[15:28] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:28] <NCommander> nothing new to report expect livecd-rootfs got a lobotomy to get a3 images out
[15:28] <janimo> getting better
[15:28] <NCommander> mono work still pending a3 release
[15:29] <NCommander> janimo: got anything else or can I move?
[15:29] <rsalveti> it should appear more gl/gles related bugs, now that more packages get updated
[15:29] <janimo> move
[15:29] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:29] <rsalveti> for wrong usage or lack of proper detection
[15:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:29] <ogra> A3 released
[15:29] <NCommander> We made A3. livecd-rootfs got a nasty hack due to webkit sucking
[15:29] <ogra> nothing else to report for existing images
[15:29] <ogra> NCommander, do you need any help with janis changes ?
[15:30] <rsalveti> I'm building webkit with gcc-4.4 to see if it could be related with the toolchain
[15:30] <NCommander> ogra: feel free to grab them and run with ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:30] <NCommander> them
[15:30] <NCommander> %$#W@!!~
[15:30] <rsalveti> but webkit in general is completely broken
[15:30] <NCommander> what I need is to take Xorg apart
[15:30] <rsalveti> and gcc can't help on it
[15:30] <ogra> so its an internal webik error ?
[15:30] <ogra> thats bad
[15:30] <ogra> especially if we cant blame the toolchain
[15:31] <rsalveti> yup, we'll see
[15:31] <janimo> rsalveti, , I saw PPA builds of webkit failed
[15:31] <NCommander> rsalveti: I recommend you prepare the approicate sacarifies to the debugging gods
[15:31] <rsalveti> janimo: that's fine, armel is still building
[15:31] <rsalveti> I forgot that the ppa also builds for other arches
[15:31] <ogra> yeah, who cares about exotic arches like x86 anyway
[15:31] <rsalveti> yup :-)
[15:31] <GrueMaster> I do when the build failures start spamming me.
[15:32] <rsalveti> sorry about that :-)
[15:32] <NCommander> we should have some sorta nice porting team to assign bugs to when x86 breaks since hardware is so scare :-)
[15:32] <ogra> procmail ftw ;)
[15:32] <ogra> NCommander, good idea ! propose that to davidm
[15:32] <ogra> ;)
[15:32] <ogra> so he can bring it up to the managers
[15:33] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to draft and formalize x86 porting team proposal
[15:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to draft and formalize x86 porting team proposal
[15:33]  * ogra has nothing else 
[15:33] <NCommander> */silly off*
[15:33] <NCommander> [topic] AOB
[15:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:34] <ogra> i held a talk at UDD ...
[15:34] <ogra> got some nice positive feedback and actually the hour was filled with questions (i only talked for 10min or so)
[15:35] <ogra> seems there is good community interest in arm
[15:35] <ogra> ..
[15:35] <ogra> err UDW, sorry
[15:35] <NCommander> ogra: watch your TLAs :-)
[15:35]  * janimo waits for Daniel to post the daily summary links and I'll check out the transcript
[15:35] <ogra> heh
[15:35] <rsalveti> yeah, saw that, quite nice we had so many people interested on it
[15:36] <NCommander> I'm probably going to be out the rest of the morning and possibly early afternoon
[15:36] <NCommander> I got a grand total of 45 minutes of sleep
[15:36] <NCommander> >.<;
[15:36] <ogra> yeah, get some lseep
[15:36] <janimo> lslepp
[15:36] <NCommander> plan on it
[15:36] <janimo> as in long sleep
[15:36] <ogra> you well earned a break ;)
[15:36] <NCommander> anyway
[15:36] <NCommander> Anyting else
[15:36] <NCommander> else
[15:36] <NCommander> closingin the meeting in 5
[15:36] <janimo> calendar is helpful, just got an email reminding me of this meeting
[15:36] <ogra> nope
[15:36] <NCommander> 4
[15:36] <NCommander> 3
[15:36] <NCommander> 2
[15:37] <NCommander> 1
[15:37] <ogra> janimo, fix your timezone ;)
[15:37] <NCommander> @endmeeting
[15:37] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[15:37] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:37.
[15:37] <janimo> ogra, it is gmail actually
[15:37] <ogra> fix your TZ setting there
[15:37] <janimo> no timezonme settings are off by 30 minutes :)
[15:37] <ogra> ah
[15:37] <ogra> heh
[15:37] <ogra> thats what you get living in the middle of a TZ
[15:37] <NCommander> janimo: actually ..
[15:37] <NCommander> India is off by 30 minutes
[15:38] <ogra> it just tries to be precise
[15:38] <janimo> well yes, and a few other regions in wide countries
[15:38] <janimo> but not around here
[15:38] <soren> there's a city somewhere that's off by 20 minutes, iirc.
[15:38] <NCommander> anyway
[15:38] <NCommander> I'm gone
[19:01] <charlie-tca> anyone here for the Xubuntu meeting?
[19:01] <Unit193> Yeah
[19:01] <mr_pouit> o/
[19:01] <charlie-tca> #startmeeting
[19:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is charlie-tca.
[19:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:02] <charlie-tca> If I go away, just keep going
[19:02] <highvoltage> good afternoon charlie-tca
[19:02] <charlie-tca> Welcome to the weekly Xubuntu Community Meeting
[19:02] <charlie-tca> Hello, highvoltage
[19:02] <charlie-tca> The full meeting agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:02] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
[19:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
[19:03] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu marketing plans
[19:03] <charlie-tca> any word on these yet?
[19:04] <charlie-tca> ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
[19:04] <charlie-tca> running out of time for this, aren't we, mr_pouit
[19:04] <charlie-tca> we need someone to update the slideshows displayed during the installation, they are badly outdated (they were made for karmic or lucid)
[19:04] <BillyBob> i have a small opinion to make; xubuntu is trying to fit into the same niche as ubuntu, maybe we need to find a different one?
[19:05] <charlie-tca> I think we can close this one, knome and ochosi got a start on it
[19:05] <mr_pouit> we have 3 weeks before UI freezen so it might be ok
[19:05] <mr_pouit> *freeze
[19:05] <charlie-tca> Thanks, mr_pouit
[19:05] <BillyBob> i could do that if u want
[19:05] <charlie-tca> BillyBob: that would fit better in "Any other business"
[19:05] <charlie-tca> do which one?
[19:05] <BillyBob> soz, first time
[19:06] <charlie-tca> marketing plans?
[19:07] <beardygnome> hi all, stuck at work, so I'm going to have to skip this meeting. will catch up on the minutes when they are published.
[19:07] <charlie-tca> Thanks for letting us know, beardygnome
[19:07] <charlie-tca> BillyBob: which one do you think you could help with?
[19:08] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates
[19:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates
[19:08] <BillyBob> charlie-tca: the slideshow, and i think my mate and i could get it onto the website too
[19:09] <charlie-tca> Slideshow should be about done now. I believe ochosi is going to supply some new snapshots of the greybird theme to finish it up
[19:09] <charlie-tca> But, by all mean, talk to knome or ochosi about it and see if they can use some help?
[19:10] <BillyBob> OK, have you got someone to put it on website? we could do that
[19:10] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: np
[19:10] <charlie-tca> The website is being redone in wordpress, I think that is part of the reworking.
[19:11] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
[19:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
[19:11] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: updates?
[19:11] <mr_pouit> Nothing much this week, it was rather calm because of the alpha freeze
[19:11] <mr_pouit> * Updated xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-meta for the changes decided last meeting.
[19:11] <mr_pouit> * Fixed xfce4-indicator-plugin to support changing volume on scroll events with indicator-sound.
[19:11] <mr_pouit> * Uploaded update-manager patch from last week (Bug #530161).
[19:12] <mr_pouit> That's all.
[19:12] <charlie-tca> Calm is good for a change
[19:12] <charlie-tca> I saw an indicator-sound-??? crash a few times in testing, was that the one abouve?
[19:13] <mr_pouit> yeah, it's this indicator in the panel
[19:13] <charlie-tca> Great!
[19:13] <charlie-tca> the other one causing concern was the update-manager crashing on first update after installing.
[19:13] <charlie-tca> that is being looked at by Ubuntu devs
[19:14] <charlie-tca> Any questions for mr_pouit ?
[19:14] <charlie-tca> Thank you, mr_pouit. Your work is greatly appreciated!
[19:14] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
[19:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Not much on bugs this week, but we did test the ISO images for Natty Alpha3.
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Testing went pretty good this time around, however, wubi is broken
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Any questions?
[19:16] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
[19:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
[19:16] <charlie-tca> Any updates from knome or pleia2 ?
[19:17] <charlie-tca> hm, it is a bad day for freenode today.
[19:17] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Artwork
[19:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork
[19:18] <BillyBob> are you at all interested in photographs for some desktop wallpapers?
[19:18] <charlie-tca> The new themes and layouts are now in alpha3. Greybird is a really neat theme!
[19:19]  * mvo has fixed the u-m issue in bzr
[19:20] <charlie-tca> yes, they can be submitted, but all the wallpaper will be submitted through the community artwork project at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0007_Xubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
[19:20] <BillyBob> photos?
[19:20] <BillyBob> right, i'll upload them then
[19:20] <charlie-tca> photos will be considered, as they as they meet the specs
[19:20] <charlie-tca> The upload site is http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
[19:21] <charlie-tca> thank you, mvo
[19:21] <charlie-tca> any other questions on artwork?
[19:21] <charlie-tca> I see ochosi made it, any news on
[19:21] <charlie-tca> # ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
[19:22] <ochosi> yeah, sry, didn't make it with the menu icon
[19:22] <ochosi> was busy with other stuff
[19:22] <ochosi> xfwm4 theme is finished
[19:22] <ochosi> so basically the greybird theme is pretty final
[19:22] <charlie-tca> Okay, we got about three weeks to freeze
[19:22] <charlie-tca> the greybird theme is fantastic!
[19:22] <ochosi> so with greybird we're basically in a bugfix phase
[19:22] <charlie-tca> Next week we should be reviewing wallpapers
[19:22] <ochosi> yeah, feedback is pretty good
[19:23] <ochosi> mhm
[19:23] <ochosi> maybe discuss them a bit before the meeting even
[19:23] <charlie-tca> sure.
[19:23] <ochosi> knome and me did a new gmusicbrowser icon for xubuntu
[19:23] <ochosi> it's pretty nice :)
[19:23]  * ochosi digs up the link
[19:23] <charlie-tca> Is it the one in the alpha3?
[19:24] <ochosi> no, up to now it was monochrome
[19:24]  * micahg is back
[19:24] <ochosi> which was problematic
[19:24] <ochosi> you can see it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/gmusicbrowser/blob/master/pix/gmusicbrowser.png
[19:25] <ochosi> i guess that's about it from my side
[19:25] <charlie-tca> WoW! I like that one a lot
[19:25] <ochosi> (the new icon also created good feedback by the way)
[19:25] <ochosi> thanks :)
[19:25] <charlie-tca> that does give a real nice idea of what the app does
[19:25] <ochosi> it's designed to be kinda generic, so it would give a good idea of the function
[19:25] <ochosi> exactly
[19:26] <charlie-tca> Anything for artwork?
[19:26] <ochosi> nope, i'm done )
[19:26] <charlie-tca> else, that is?
[19:26] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
[19:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
[19:26] <ochosi> sry, g2g again
[19:26] <charlie-tca> Natty Narwhal Alpha3 released today!
[19:27] <charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi
[19:27] <ochosi> i'll read the log :)
[19:27] <ochosi> np
[19:27] <ochosi> ->
[19:27] <charlie-tca> Glad for your input
[19:27] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
[19:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[19:27] <micahg> did we get gmusicbrowser in the seed for alpha3
[19:28] <micahg> or are we waiting on the new artwork?
[19:28] <charlie-tca> Next meeting is on March 10, same place, 19:00 UTC
[19:28] <charlie-tca> micahg: as far as I know, it is there
[19:28] <charlie-tca> I know it was on the panel, and started with the launcher
[19:29] <charlie-tca> This was brought up earlier, and deserves an answer:
 i have a small opinion to make; xubuntu is trying to fit into the same niche as ubuntu, maybe we need to find a different one?
[19:29]  * micahg doesn't think so
[19:30] <micahg> xubuntu is a lighter alternative to ubuntu, not lightest though
[19:30] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu with Unity and Gnome has always been aimed at the the new user coming from windows
[19:30] <charlie-tca> We have not aimed at the new user, intentionally.
[19:30] <charlie-tca> We are looking more at the user with at least some experience
[19:31] <BillyBob> OK, but xfce has almost the same configuration of programs (so far as i know) as GNOME, why change?
[19:31] <charlie-tca> And, as micahg just stated, Xubuntu is a lighter alternative
[19:31] <Sysi> we're hitting far from gnome3 and kde with xfce 4.8
[19:31] <charlie-tca> um, BillyBob, I think you should look again
[19:31] <charlie-tca> no open office/libreoffice
[19:31] <charlie-tca> no rythmbox/banshee
[19:31] <charlie-tca> no unity/compiz
[19:32] <Sysi> browser is same, shortly said
[19:32] <micahg> yes, and lighter default apps
[19:32] <BillyBob> OK, i'm just a noob i guess
[19:32] <micahg> I think the only default shared with Ubuntu is Firefox
[19:32] <BillyBob> but if there was like a killer reason to change, maybe more people would?
[19:32] <charlie-tca> There are many differences, even though we do use some of the gnome applications
[19:33] <Sysi> we could market xubuntu to old gnome users that don't like unity
[19:33] <Sysi> natty-time
[19:33] <charlie-tca> yes, that would be good, also to those experienced users who want more configurability
[19:34] <charlie-tca> Many things can be changed in Xubuntu that are harder to change in Ubuntu
[19:35] <BillyBob> maybe if we marketed with that, customisability?
[19:35] <BillyBob> forgive me if u do
[19:35] <charlie-tca> We need help with the marketing part of things
[19:36] <BillyBob> have you thought about removing the rat from the logo, because rats are sneaky and annoying, and pests?
[19:36] <maco> s/rat/mouse/
[19:37] <BillyBob> maco: what about a mouse?
[19:37] <Sysi> it's xfce's mouse
[19:38] <BillyBob> oh, a mouse!
[19:38] <charlie-tca> BillyBob: here is the start to our Marketing plans - feel free to add to it
[19:38] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing
[19:38] <charlie-tca> The mouse is the Xfce logo
[19:38] <charlie-tca> just as the footprint is the gnome logo
[19:39] <BillyBob> but maybe we don't have to use it, the ubuntu logo doesn't have a foot
[19:39] <charlie-tca> ideas accepted
[19:40] <charlie-tca> Please add them to the marketing page
[19:40] <PsynoKhi0> ubuntu now has pretty much its own DE though :)
[19:40] <PsynoKhi0> well... own shell rather
[19:40] <Unit193> It's nice to have the minimize/maximize/close buttons on the top right
[19:40] <charlie-tca> Yes, even though the underlying stuff is gnome, they are putting more and more of their own into Ubuntu
[19:41] <charlie-tca> heh, gnome3 does away with minimize and maximize buttons
[19:41] <BillyBob> mmm, true
[19:41] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu gives the user the option to use the buttons or hide them all
[19:42] <charlie-tca> There's that configurability again, huh?
[19:42] <BillyBob> before i go, perhaps a freash new icon theme, like the 'breathe' one, the xfce one looks kinda old
[19:43] <charlie-tca> too late for this cycle
[19:43] <Sysi> discuss with knome about that :P
[19:43] <charlie-tca> Anything else to discuss
[19:43] <charlie-tca> knome does not run things, he can make suggestions too
[19:43] <charlie-tca> the icons are there for Natty, already
[19:44] <charlie-tca> going....
[19:44] <charlie-tca> going 2.....
[19:44] <PsynoKhi0> then again, having the ubuntu logo
[19:44] <charlie-tca> Thanks for participating in this meeting!
[19:44] <charlie-tca> huh? what "having the ubuntu logo"?
[19:45] <charlie-tca> where is that?
[19:45] <charlie-tca> Of course, we walk a fine line, being a separate distribution but officially supported by Ubuntu
[19:45] <PsynoKhi0> having the ubuntu logo instead of the xfce one would brand xubuntu as a distro with stronger tie with ubuntu, instead of strong tie with xfce
[19:46] <charlie-tca> That would be a wrong suggestion. We really do have a strong tie with Xfce
[19:46] <charlie-tca> since that is the desktop environment we use.
[19:47] <charlie-tca> We could consider a logo that shows both, again, as we had in the past.
[19:47] <PsynoKhi0> was wondering where this one went :)
[19:47] <charlie-tca> but we will not confuse the user by using the Ubuntu logo. That does designate Ubuntu, a different distribution.
[19:47] <PsynoKhi0> fair point
[19:48] <charlie-tca> Development happens in #xubuntu-devel, support happens in #xubuntu
[19:48] <Unit193> How about the Ubuntu logo with the mouse in the middle?
[19:49] <charlie-tca> um, it would be better to use a similar but different design then the Ubuntu logo.
[19:49] <Sysi> getting complicated for small sizes
[19:49] <charlie-tca> yeah, we tried to get the mouse in the wheel, it did not work well
[19:50] <charlie-tca> WE need one that designates lightweight, tied to ubuntu, tied to Xfce, with great configurability!
[19:50] <PsynoKhi0> does it really have to show the entire logo? my only gripe about natty alpha is that the menu button is really small
[19:50] <charlie-tca> a few designs to look at would be nice
[19:51] <charlie-tca> We are trying to get some new designs drawn up
[19:51] <charlie-tca> The fact that it is the logo does not mean it has to be tiny
[19:52] <PsynoKhi0> let me upload a pic real quick
[19:53] <charlie-tca> better to do a couple of pictures, and give us a chance to see them. We will not make a decision today, anyway.
[19:53] <PsynoKhi0> kk
[19:53] <charlie-tca> Hopefully, we will have logos to look at next week, right?
[19:54] <charlie-tca> PsynoKhi0 and ochosi and maybe knome will get some together for us?
[19:54] <PsynoKhi0> can give it a try
[19:54] <charlie-tca> PsynoKhi0: feel free to tell us in #xubuntu-devel any links to see a preview of it, okay?
[19:54] <PsynoKhi0> sure thing
[19:54] <charlie-tca> I would like to end this meeting, if we can?
[19:55] <charlie-tca> Thanks again for participating. It is great to see interest being generated!
[19:55] <charlie-tca> #endmeeting
[19:55] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:55.
[19:56]  * charlie-tca has a two year old wanting attention too
[19:57] <Sysi> aww