[00:51] <knome> i added the xubuntu feed to planet ubuntu 20 seconds ago.
[01:12] <charlie-tca> thank you
[01:17] <micahg> charlie-tca: I'm sorry, but I haven't heard back from persia about the ARM installers, I could test next week and we could release it late if you're interested
[01:17] <charlie-tca> heh, at the rate it is going, ARM might not be ready anyway
[01:18] <charlie-tca> I think they are rebuilding the image again
[01:18] <charlie-tca> We did not have them for us this time. Maybe we can start building and testing them, and plan for beta release?
[01:18] <charlie-tca> That is only a month away
[10:38] <PsynoKhi0> heya
[10:38] <ochosi> hi
[10:40] <PsynoKhi0> I've just tried the daily build for xubuntu natty, really impressed by the polished look
[10:43] <PsynoKhi0> though did I miss it or has the desktop switcher applet been removed from the default layout?
[10:44] <mr_pouit> The workspace switcher will probably come back, after the alpha 3 release
[10:44] <PsynoKhi0> great :)
[10:46] <ochosi> thanks for the nice feedback PsynoKhi0 
[10:47] <PsynoKhi0> np, you deserve it guys! almost making me want to drop KDE4 heh
[10:49] <PsynoKhi0> there's only one thing that kind of bugs me, it's the menu icon
[10:49] <ochosi> yeah, that's work in progress
[10:50] <PsynoKhi0> though only if it take it from a "first time user"'s perspective
[10:50] <PsynoKhi0> it's like the smallest icon of all with no rel clue that it's a menu icon unless you hover the mouse over it
[10:50] <PsynoKhi0> no real*
[10:51] <PsynoKhi0> mind you, this more or less plagues any recent DE
[10:53] <ochosi> currently we were thinking to make it monochrome
[10:53] <PsynoKhi0> hell even MS seem to think they can get away with nothing but an icon - they prolly believe they can afford that because of the windows mindshare
[10:53] <ochosi> but tbh i don't really know how the icon could suggest "menu"
[10:53] <PsynoKhi0> I think it should contrast with the rest of the desktop
[10:54] <ochosi> as in: make it pink? :)
[10:54] <PsynoKhi0> URGH
[10:54] <ochosi> well, it kinda does contrast with the rest of the DE atm because it's not monochrome
[10:56] <PsynoKhi0> hmm well take the start button in XP... dault is a green button with a big fat START on it, over a blue taskbar... what would a brand new computer user do when seeing the desktop for the first time?
[10:56] <PsynoKhi0> hard to miss, isn't it?
[10:56] <PsynoKhi0> dault -> default
[10:57] <ochosi> probably, but tbh when i was still using windows i always thought: "why the heck does it say 'start'"?
[10:58] <PsynoKhi0> dunno... but it has pretty strong "whenever you have no clue what to do next, try pressing here" semantics
[10:59] <ochosi> ok, so assuming we stick with only the icon, no text, what would you suggest?
[11:00] <PsynoKhi0> hmm do you have a screenshot of the current dafault layout?
[11:00] <PsynoKhi0> oh boy, gotta learn to type default right
[11:00] <ochosi> lol, yeah :)
[11:01] <PsynoKhi0> a pic of the top left corner will do
[11:01] <ochosi> this is approx the default http://imagebin.org/140898
[11:02] <PsynoKhi0> awesome ty! gonna slaughter it a bit ;P
[11:02] <ochosi> sure, go ahead
[11:10] <mark76> Is that xfce4-panel with alpha transparency at the bottom?
[11:11] <ochosi> mark76: yes
[11:23] <mark76> Nice
[11:34] <PsynoKhi0> sigh I suck at GIMP....
[11:37] <PsynoKhi0> http://img593.imageshack.us/i/panelit3bigmenubutton.png/ anyway something like this
[11:38] <PsynoKhi0> but professionally done >.<
[11:38] <ochosi> woah
[11:38] <ochosi> so you want to make it ellipse-shaped
[11:38] <PsynoKhi0> yes it's butt ugly
[11:38] <ochosi> ?
[11:39] <PsynoKhi0> nah, dunno, couldn't get the corners round
[11:39] <PsynoKhi0> :|
[11:39] <ochosi> we were considering something like the lubuntu menu-button
[11:39] <ochosi> but not sure yet whether it's possible in xfce-panel
[11:40] <PsynoKhi0> ah
[11:40] <ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Artwork/Incoming/Natty/Ozone
[11:40] <ochosi> > panel
[11:41] <PsynoKhi0> anyway you could have the icon bigger ieven if the top and buttom are slightly cut off?
[11:41] <ochosi> probably
[11:41] <ochosi> not sure whether the icon will be cut off or scaled
[11:43] <PsynoKhi0> hmm lubuntu might be on the right track, though still not sold on flat menu buttons with no text... doesn't really scream "CLICK MEH!!!" but it could be just me hehe
[11:44] <PsynoKhi0> oh well, I guess users CAN learn too :)
[11:44] <ochosi> yeah, the install-slideshow will highlight the app-menu and the button
[11:44] <ochosi> so it's not necessarily a problem
[11:44] <PsynoKhi0> true
[11:44] <ochosi> and i don't want a button that screams at me for everyday-work
[11:44] <PsynoKhi0> hehe
[11:46] <PsynoKhi0> so you're assuming that people know their way around, or watch the slideshow, or get help for the first post install steps, I guess it's fair enough
[11:46] <ochosi> mr_pouit: btw, i asked again in #xfce-dev about thunar's startup-lag and jannis and nick still seem to be convinced that adding the daemon to autostart solves the issue
[11:47] <ochosi> PsynoKhi0: yep, and there are also users that might get what that button does by a) intuition or b) trying to click it ;)
[11:47] <PsynoKhi0> if they do understand it's a button :P
[11:48] <ochosi> well, if they're too afraid to click anywhere, how will they even install the system?
[11:49] <PsynoKhi0> well I'm using the following scenario as a starting point: someone who gets a computer/tablet/whatever as a present with any *buntu flavor preinstalled... what are the first reactions?
[11:50] <PsynoKhi0> oh and that person has not heard let alone used *buntu before
[11:50] <ochosi> sure, it's a valid (even not exactly the standard) scenario
[11:50] <ochosi> +if
[11:50] <PsynoKhi0> though yes it might not be your target audience :)
[11:50] <ochosi> yeah, maybe not ;)
[11:51] <ochosi> but in the end i don't think there's a clear audience for xubuntu
[11:51] <PsynoKhi0> still wishing for some big OEM putting *buntu systems on local electronics shop :D
[11:51] <ochosi> good luck with that
[11:51] <PsynoKhi0> I know...
[11:51] <ochosi> sry, g2g, lunch ->
[11:51] <ochosi> bbl
[11:51] <PsynoKhi0> every bit helps though
[11:51] <PsynoKhi0> kk cya!:)
[11:52] <ochosi> yep, cu
[12:03] <mr_pouit> ochosi: clearly not, because Thunar --daemon is already launched by default by xfce4-session here :/
[13:08] <PsynoKhi0> ochosi?
[13:09] <PsynoKhi0> ah nvm
[13:29] <mr_pouit> ochosi: imho, it is slow to start, because it needs to start all gio network daemons (gvfsd-{smb,dns}, etc.)
[13:29] <mr_pouit> if you compare ps output before and after, you can see more of them
[13:30] <mr_pouit> ah, and tumbler of course
[13:32] <mr_pouit> if you compare with nautilus: nautilus loads them only when you click on the "network" shortcut
[13:33] <mr_pouit> (so it's faster to start the first time)
[14:44] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[15:06] <mr_pouit> ochosi: yay, I think I identified the cause of the startup lag: the "Network" bookmark
[15:50] <ochosi> mr_pouit: let's hope we can fix that! :)
[15:51] <mr_pouit> for 4.8, I'm not sure :}
[15:51] <ochosi> for 11.04? ;)
[15:51] <ochosi> i mean can we patch it
[16:01] <mr_pouit> well, if what I wrote is not too wrong, I don't see any unintrusive way of patching :/
[16:01] <ochosi> arrh
[16:10] <ochosi> g2g, sry, i won't be able to attend the meeting tonight i'm afriad
[16:10] <ochosi> not many updates from my side anyway, apart from xfwm4 finished and all
[16:10] <ochosi> ->
[16:34] <charlie-tca> well, I forgot to tell vinnl we need a news release for alpha3
[18:17] <charlie-tca> Natty Alpha3 released!
[18:17] <charlie-tca> Congratulations for a well-done effort
[18:34] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 25 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[18:34] <charlie-tca> if freenode settles down enough
[18:46] <micahg> charlie-tca: I'll be a little late for the meeting
[18:46] <charlie-tca> heh
[18:47] <charlie-tca> no problem, I don't know if I will make it at the rate the splits are going