=== achiang` is now known as achiang
=== DanRabbit_ is now known as DanRabbit
DaekdroomI don't quite understand why unity-panel-service only grabs metacity theme from Ambiance and Radiance, even if you use those window borders with other GTK themes01:33
bcurtiswxkenvandine, you still there?01:40
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
=== _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero
htorquehello everyone, i got a small invisible (desktop-blocking) window on every workspace - is this a known problem?10:57
htorqueunfortunately i have no idea what i did to cause it. here's its xwininfo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/575909/10:58
hytreemim on 10.10 and wanna try out the latest appmenu11:44
hytreemhow would i do that?11:45
hytreemok nevermind11:55
hytreemi downloaded the appmenu11:55
hytreemhow do i install it?11:55
ubot5It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.12:03
ionO HAI12:03
=== robtaylo1 is now known as robtaylor
OmegaI see Unity talk in here all the time, but never Ayatana talk.15:44
OmegaDoes anyone know if there is a way to flush the notify-senf buffer?17:04
Omeganotify-send even.17:56
hytreemwill ubuntu once be a paid OS like windows or macosx?21:33
hyperairwhat gives you that idea?21:35
OmegaNo, it will not, more information here: http://www.ubuntu.com/project21:39
DaekdroomThat is one of the most absurd questions I've ever seen here21:42
OmegaD< Omega> How do you escape a ' in sh? I can't do '\''21:43
OmegaIt could be an honest question, no need to attack hytreem.21:43
DaekdroomWell, it could.21:44
hytreemit is21:44
hytreemi have read a lot of articles about ubuntu21:44
hytreemand some say that the way things are going now in the ubuntu project it will be a paid OS21:44
achiangfrom the front page of ubuntu.com - "Ubuntu is, and always will be, absolutely free."21:45
hytreemthat's just a promise though21:45
DaekdroomThat's a premise from the project21:45
hytreemand there won't be a paid version?21:45
DaekdroomIt's not named Ubuntu because the name looks cool or anything (does it? :p). There's a philosophy behind it21:45
hytreemand a free version we'll use?21:46
hytreemi know but these articles are scary21:46
hytreemthey say that ubuntu now tries to be the cool kid on campus so it generates a lot of popularity and then when it's like fully ready to compete with osx and windows it'll be a paid OS21:46
Omegahytreem: The community would never allow that to happen.21:51
hytreemare you sure?21:51
OmegaIf that is on the horizon the project will be forken, probably under a new name.21:51
hytreemone blog post earlier said that the community is becoming less important21:51
OmegaBut the software is still free software.21:52
OmegaThe source code has to be released alongside the binaries.21:52
OmegaAnd with that someone can build a free Ubuntu (if it becomes paid)21:52
hytreemso i dont have to worry at all? i can keep using ubuntu FOREVER FOR FREE?21:52
hytreemand for free?21:53
OmegaI guarantee you that.21:53
hytreemlike not paying any money?21:53
OmegaNo money at all.21:53
hytreemwhy are there articles about this then?21:53
OmegaAnd the free isn't only gratis, but also be able to look at the internals of ubuntu.21:53
OmegaAnd share ubuntu.21:53
OmegaWith anyone you want21:53
hyperairhytreem: you can't believe everything you read online.21:54
hyperairboycottnovell write articles too21:54
hyperairridiculous article that do nothing but spread lies21:54
hytreemi know hyperair, but it's not just 121:54
Omegahytreem: The articles you read are talking about something different (if the ones you are talking about are the ones I think you are)21:54
OmegaThey are probably talking about the governance of the Ubuntu project.21:55
hytreemOmega, yes that too, and then it tries to predict the future which often seems to look bad, the opposite of what the site promises and what you promised too21:55
hytreemhyperair, that site redirected me to another site21:56
hyperairjournalists like to do that. it generates readership.21:56
OmegaNo, these two things are different.21:56
OmegaThe promise is about the Ubuntu project always being free.21:56
hyperairhytreem: right, techrights has taken over the job of spewing garbage.21:56
OmegaThe articles are talking about the community's role in Ubuntu's governance.21:57
hyperairwhich article are we talking about anyway?21:57
hytreemOmega, yes21:57
hytreemand then it goes on to say that the community will end up having been a puppet that has popularized the by then paid OS21:57
hyperairhytreem: could you give us a link?21:58
OmegaI don't know what article you have been reading then.21:58
hyperairi'm now interested in seeing who wrote that.21:58
OmegaThe ones I read were well written and not sensationalist.21:58
hytreemi've read tons by googling but i'll bring out one, hold on21:59
Omega(Actually, I attended the meeting)21:59
vishhytreem: that says nothing about Ubuntu being sold ;)21:59
hytreemcomments also contribute to my summarization21:59
visheven about , anytime in the future21:59
hytreemhold on i'll give more22:00
hyperairhytreem: you need to read the entire conversation in context.22:00
hytreemhe has quoted?22:00
OmegaThere was a meeting a few days ago.22:00
hyperairhytreem: i have come to believe that 80% of the people who post comments are idiots, or are masquerading as idiots.22:00
hyperairone idiot will come up with some preposterous idea22:01
hyperairthe rest will follow like sheep.22:01
hyperairand then everyone turns into an idiot.22:01
hytreemthat is very likely yes22:01
hyperairthe remaining 20% choose to stay silent, because it's like trying to fight off a sharkfest22:01
Omegahytreem: Do you have any more questions?22:02
vishcomments section is like folks trying to audition to become a standup comedian22:02
OmegaIf you do, don't be afraid of asking.22:02
hytreemyou guys have convinced me i must say22:02
hytreemthe community can drop the project and fork away22:02
hyperairthere's always debian to run to in the event of a crisis.22:03
OmegaYes, anyone can fork.22:03
hyperairbut i don't believe crisis will come.22:03
OmegaThat is the beauty of Free Software :)22:03
hytreemOmega, actually i have but it has nothing to do with this, when do you see programs like ProTools coming to Ubuntu?22:03
hyperairwhat's protools?22:03
hyperairah, don't we have jokosher?22:04
vishi think he means the adobe ones....22:04
OmegaYes and Ardour22:04
hytreemhyperair, good for bringing that up, i also read some more neutral posts about the trouble relationship between debian and ubuntu, any ideas on that?22:04
hyperairhytreem: my impression is that ubuntu developers in general don't resent debian22:04
hytreemProTools is what a friend of mine uses on his Mac to produce high quality music, there are some well known artists who solely use that22:05
hyperairand that a miniscule percentage of debian developers resent ubuntu.22:05
OmegaThe relationship isn't really bad to be honest. The Ubuntu Community Council consists of many Debian Developers.22:05
hyperairyes, the relationship between ubuntu and debian is actually really good22:05
hytreema common statement i have read is that and i quote: ubuntu profits of all the work done at debian22:06
hyperairand many ubuntu developers, myself included highly recommend pushing fixes as far upstream as possible, which include to debian22:06
vish  encrypted.google.com  !!!22:06
* vish reads more about it..22:06
hyperairhytreem: that's probably something you read from some noisy idiot in some comment.22:06
Omegavish: http://duckduckgo.com :)22:06
hyperairvish: heheh i use https-everywhere.22:06
Omegahytreem: That is not really accurate, we all stand on the shoulders of giants, it's what open source is all about, sharing.22:07
hyperairvish: incidentally, i get secure.wikimedia.org as well.22:07
hyperairvish: when accessing wiki stuff i mean22:07
hytreemso i have nothing to worry about? other than protools coming to ubuntu?22:07
hytreemOmega, when do you see that happening btw?22:07
vishmeh, i think i'll let the system absorb me :-D22:07
vishtoo much hassle;..22:08
hytreemit will likely not become opensource22:08
hyperairvish: it won't be too much hassle when someone wielding firesheep steals your session cookies over wifi22:08
OmegaHah, firesheep, it's been possible long before the shiny GUI :P22:08
hyperairor when someone serves you upsidedownternet via arpspoof.22:08
hyperairOmega: yeah, i know, but firesheep made it available to the skiddies.22:09
hytreemwhat's a skiddie?22:09
hyperairscript kiddie.22:09
Omegahytreem: I do not know, you can look at free software alternatives in the meantime, like Jokosher and Ardour.22:09
hytreemOmega, i have tried those but the problem is that they are not advanced enough22:10
hyperaireven ardour? i hear that was pretty damn awesome though22:10
hytreemfrom what I have seen from my friend, he connected a small keyboard to his mac, chose to play a certain type of beat and repeated that for a while and he had a song22:11
hyperairhytreem: well, i suggest systematically highlighting the missing features and filing feature request bug reports on ardour. =p22:11
hyperairthat should really be possible with ardour as well, i think22:11
hyperairsounds like a pretty basic feature22:12
hyperairbut i haven't actually tried22:12
hytreemif that would be true hyperair I could become a musician22:12
hyperairwell have fun then =p22:12
hytreemnow I can't because I cannot afford a mac with protools22:12
* hyperair gave up on making music.22:12
hyperairi much prefer listening to music22:13
hytreemi like both22:13
Omegahytreem: With Ubuntu we want to make sure this never happens to anyone, that's why it's free :)22:13
* hyperair is happy to make music with frets on fire though22:13
hytreemwhat do you mean with "this omega?22:13
Omega< hytreem> now I can't because I cannot afford a mac with protools22:13
hytreemi understand22:14
hytreemwell omega22:15
hytreemi cannot afford a mac to be more precisely22:15
hytreemi could afford protools22:15
hyperairget hackintosh ;-)22:15
hytreemand a small keyboard to connect22:15
OmegaGive ardour a try.22:15
hytreemi heard it wouldn't run well because i have suckish hardware22:15
hytreemok Omega22:15
hytreemardour seems to use something weird for the menu bar22:17
hytreemwill it be a supported program for the next ubuntu version?22:18
hyperairhmm it's 6am here. i better sleep before the sun rises22:18
* hyperair grins, showing off his fangs22:18
Omegahytreem: If you have further questions, ask them in #ubuntu, if you have ardour questions, ask in #ardour.22:26
hytreemthank you22:26

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