=== achiang` is now known as achiang === DanRabbit_ is now known as DanRabbit [01:33] I don't quite understand why unity-panel-service only grabs metacity theme from Ambiance and Radiance, even if you use those window borders with other GTK themes [01:40] kenvandine, you still there? === Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth === _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero [10:57] hello everyone, i got a small invisible (desktop-blocking) window on every workspace - is this a known problem? [10:58] unfortunately i have no idea what i did to cause it. here's its xwininfo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/575909/ [11:44] hi [11:44] im on 10.10 and wanna try out the latest appmenu [11:45] how would i do that? [11:55] ok nevermind [11:55] i downloaded the appmenu [11:55] how do i install it? [12:02] HELLO? [12:03] !weekend [12:03] It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week. [12:03] O HAI [12:08] hey === robtaylo1 is now known as robtaylor [15:44] I see Unity talk in here all the time, but never Ayatana talk. [17:04] Does anyone know if there is a way to flush the notify-senf buffer? [17:56] notify-send even. [21:33] hi [21:33] will ubuntu once be a paid OS like windows or macosx? [21:35] no. [21:35] what gives you that idea? [21:39] No, it will not, more information here: http://www.ubuntu.com/project [21:42] That is one of the most absurd questions I've ever seen here [21:43] D< Omega> How do you escape a ' in sh? I can't do '\'' [21:43] Oops. [21:43] It could be an honest question, no need to attack hytreem. [21:44] Well, it could. [21:44] it is [21:44] i have read a lot of articles about ubuntu [21:44] and some say that the way things are going now in the ubuntu project it will be a paid OS [21:45] from the front page of ubuntu.com - "Ubuntu is, and always will be, absolutely free." [21:45] that's just a promise though [21:45] That's a premise from the project [21:45] and there won't be a paid version? [21:45] It's not named Ubuntu because the name looks cool or anything (does it? :p). There's a philosophy behind it [21:46] and a free version we'll use? [21:46] i know but these articles are scary [21:46] they say that ubuntu now tries to be the cool kid on campus so it generates a lot of popularity and then when it's like fully ready to compete with osx and windows it'll be a paid OS [21:51] hytreem: The community would never allow that to happen. [21:51] are you sure? [21:51] If that is on the horizon the project will be forken, probably under a new name. [21:51] Yes. [21:51] one blog post earlier said that the community is becoming less important [21:51] forked* [21:52] But the software is still free software. [21:52] The source code has to be released alongside the binaries. [21:52] And with that someone can build a free Ubuntu (if it becomes paid) [21:52] so i dont have to worry at all? i can keep using ubuntu FOREVER FOR FREE? [21:53] Yep. [21:53] Forever. [21:53] and for free? [21:53] I guarantee you that. [21:53] Correct. [21:53] like not paying any money? [21:53] No money at all. [21:53] wow [21:53] why are there articles about this then? [21:53] And the free isn't only gratis, but also be able to look at the internals of ubuntu. [21:53] And share ubuntu. [21:53] With anyone you want [21:54] hytreem: you can't believe everything you read online. [21:54] boycottnovell write articles too [21:54] ridiculous article that do nothing but spread lies [21:54] i know hyperair, but it's not just 1 [21:54] "boycottnovell"? [21:54] boycottnovell.com [21:54] hytreem: The articles you read are talking about something different (if the ones you are talking about are the ones I think you are) [21:55] They are probably talking about the governance of the Ubuntu project. [21:55] Omega, yes that too, and then it tries to predict the future which often seems to look bad, the opposite of what the site promises and what you promised too [21:56] hyperair, that site redirected me to another site [21:56] journalists like to do that. it generates readership. [21:56] No, these two things are different. [21:56] The promise is about the Ubuntu project always being free. [21:56] hytreem: right, techrights has taken over the job of spewing garbage. [21:57] The articles are talking about the community's role in Ubuntu's governance. [21:57] which article are we talking about anyway? [21:57] Omega, yes [21:57] and then it goes on to say that the community will end up having been a puppet that has popularized the by then paid OS [21:58] hytreem: could you give us a link? [21:58] I don't know what article you have been reading then. [21:58] i'm now interested in seeing who wrote that. [21:58] The ones I read were well written and not sensationalist. [21:59] i've read tons by googling but i'll bring out one, hold on [21:59] (Actually, I attended the meeting) [21:59] http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/business-opportunity-in-ubuntu/ [21:59] hytreem: that says nothing about Ubuntu being sold ;) [21:59] comments also contribute to my summarization [21:59] even about , anytime in the future [22:00] hold on i'll give more [22:00] hytreem: you need to read the entire conversation in context. [22:00] he has quoted? [22:00] Yes. [22:00] There was a meeting a few days ago. [22:00] hytreem: i have come to believe that 80% of the people who post comments are idiots, or are masquerading as idiots. [22:01] ++++++++++++++ [22:01] one idiot will come up with some preposterous idea [22:01] the rest will follow like sheep. [22:01] and then everyone turns into an idiot. [22:01] that is very likely yes [22:01] the remaining 20% choose to stay silent, because it's like trying to fight off a sharkfest [22:02] hytreem: Do you have any more questions? [22:02] comments section is like folks trying to audition to become a standup comedian [22:02] If you do, don't be afraid of asking. [22:02] you guys have convinced me i must say [22:02] the community can drop the project and fork away [22:03] there's always debian to run to in the event of a crisis. [22:03] Yes, anyone can fork. [22:03] but i don't believe crisis will come. [22:03] That is the beauty of Free Software :) [22:03] Omega, actually i have but it has nothing to do with this, when do you see programs like ProTools coming to Ubuntu? [22:03] what's protools? [22:04] ah, don't we have jokosher? [22:04] i think he means the adobe ones.... [22:04] Yes and Ardour [22:04] yeah [22:04] hyperair, good for bringing that up, i also read some more neutral posts about the trouble relationship between debian and ubuntu, any ideas on that? [22:04] hytreem: my impression is that ubuntu developers in general don't resent debian [22:05] ProTools is what a friend of mine uses on his Mac to produce high quality music, there are some well known artists who solely use that [22:05] and that a miniscule percentage of debian developers resent ubuntu. [22:05] resent? [22:05] The relationship isn't really bad to be honest. The Ubuntu Community Council consists of many Debian Developers. [22:05] https://encrypted.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=define%3Aresent&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 [22:05] yes, the relationship between ubuntu and debian is actually really good [22:06] a common statement i have read is that and i quote: ubuntu profits of all the work done at debian [22:06] and many ubuntu developers, myself included highly recommend pushing fixes as far upstream as possible, which include to debian [22:06] encrypted.google.com !!! [22:06] * vish reads more about it.. [22:06] hytreem: that's probably something you read from some noisy idiot in some comment. [22:06] vish: http://duckduckgo.com :) [22:06] vish: heheh i use https-everywhere. [22:07] hytreem: That is not really accurate, we all stand on the shoulders of giants, it's what open source is all about, sharing. [22:07] vish: incidentally, i get secure.wikimedia.org as well. [22:07] vish: when accessing wiki stuff i mean [22:07] so i have nothing to worry about? other than protools coming to ubuntu? [22:07] Omega, when do you see that happening btw? [22:07] meh, i think i'll let the system absorb me :-D [22:08] too much hassle;.. [22:08] it will likely not become opensource [22:08] vish: it won't be too much hassle when someone wielding firesheep steals your session cookies over wifi [22:08] Hah, firesheep, it's been possible long before the shiny GUI :P [22:08] ;p [22:08] or when someone serves you upsidedownternet via arpspoof. [22:09] Omega: yeah, i know, but firesheep made it available to the skiddies. [22:09] what's a skiddie? [22:09] script kiddie. [22:09] oh [22:09] hytreem: I do not know, you can look at free software alternatives in the meantime, like Jokosher and Ardour. [22:09] https://encrypted.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=define%3Ascript+kiddie&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 [22:10] Omega, i have tried those but the problem is that they are not advanced enough [22:10] even ardour? i hear that was pretty damn awesome though [22:11] from what I have seen from my friend, he connected a small keyboard to his mac, chose to play a certain type of beat and repeated that for a while and he had a song [22:11] hytreem: well, i suggest systematically highlighting the missing features and filing feature request bug reports on ardour. =p [22:11] that should really be possible with ardour as well, i think [22:12] sounds like a pretty basic feature [22:12] but i haven't actually tried [22:12] if that would be true hyperair I could become a musician [22:12] well have fun then =p [22:12] now I can't because I cannot afford a mac with protools [22:12] * hyperair gave up on making music. [22:13] i much prefer listening to music [22:13] i like both [22:13] hytreem: With Ubuntu we want to make sure this never happens to anyone, that's why it's free :) [22:13] * hyperair is happy to make music with frets on fire though [22:13] what do you mean with "this omega? [22:13] < hytreem> now I can't because I cannot afford a mac with protools [22:13] yes [22:14] oh [22:14] i understand [22:15] well omega [22:15] i cannot afford a mac to be more precisely [22:15] i could afford protools [22:15] get hackintosh ;-) [22:15] and a small keyboard to connect [22:15] Give ardour a try. [22:15] i heard it wouldn't run well because i have suckish hardware [22:15] ok Omega [22:17] ardour seems to use something weird for the menu bar [22:18] will it be a supported program for the next ubuntu version? [22:18] hmm it's 6am here. i better sleep before the sun rises [22:18] * hyperair grins, showing off his fangs [22:26] hytreem: If you have further questions, ask them in #ubuntu, if you have ardour questions, ask in #ardour. [22:26] ok [22:26] thank you