[01:33] <Daekdroom> I don't quite understand why unity-panel-service only grabs metacity theme from Ambiance and Radiance, even if you use those window borders with other GTK themes
[01:40] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, you still there?
[10:57] <htorque> hello everyone, i got a small invisible (desktop-blocking) window on every workspace - is this a known problem?
[10:58] <htorque> unfortunately i have no idea what i did to cause it. here's its xwininfo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/575909/
[11:44] <hytreem> hi
[11:44] <hytreem> im on 10.10 and wanna try out the latest appmenu
[11:45] <hytreem> how would i do that?
[11:55] <hytreem> ok nevermind
[11:55] <hytreem> i downloaded the appmenu
[11:55] <hytreem> how do i install it?
[12:02] <hytreem> HELLO?
[12:03] <kklimonda> !weekend
[12:03] <ion> O HAI
[12:08] <hytreem> hey
[15:44] <Omega> I see Unity talk in here all the time, but never Ayatana talk.
[17:04] <Omega> Does anyone know if there is a way to flush the notify-senf buffer?
[17:56] <Omega> notify-send even.
[21:33] <hytreem> hi
[21:33] <hytreem> will ubuntu once be a paid OS like windows or macosx?
[21:35] <hyperair> no.
[21:35] <hyperair> what gives you that idea?
[21:39] <Omega> No, it will not, more information here: http://www.ubuntu.com/project
[21:42] <Daekdroom> That is one of the most absurd questions I've ever seen here
[21:43] <Omega> D< Omega> How do you escape a ' in sh? I can't do '\''
[21:43] <Omega> Oops.
[21:43] <Omega> It could be an honest question, no need to attack hytreem.
[21:44] <Daekdroom> Well, it could.
[21:44] <hytreem> it is
[21:44] <hytreem> i have read a lot of articles about ubuntu
[21:44] <hytreem> and some say that the way things are going now in the ubuntu project it will be a paid OS
[21:45] <achiang> from the front page of ubuntu.com - "Ubuntu is, and always will be, absolutely free."
[21:45] <hytreem> that's just a promise though
[21:45] <Daekdroom> That's a premise from the project
[21:45] <hytreem> and there won't be a paid version?
[21:45] <Daekdroom> It's not named Ubuntu because the name looks cool or anything (does it? :p). There's a philosophy behind it
[21:46] <hytreem> and a free version we'll use?
[21:46] <hytreem> i know but these articles are scary
[21:46] <hytreem> they say that ubuntu now tries to be the cool kid on campus so it generates a lot of popularity and then when it's like fully ready to compete with osx and windows it'll be a paid OS
[21:51] <Omega> hytreem: The community would never allow that to happen.
[21:51] <hytreem> are you sure?
[21:51] <Omega> If that is on the horizon the project will be forken, probably under a new name.
[21:51] <Omega> Yes.
[21:51] <hytreem> one blog post earlier said that the community is becoming less important
[21:51] <Omega> forked*
[21:52] <Omega> But the software is still free software.
[21:52] <Omega> The source code has to be released alongside the binaries.
[21:52] <Omega> And with that someone can build a free Ubuntu (if it becomes paid)
[21:52] <hytreem> so i dont have to worry at all? i can keep using ubuntu FOREVER FOR FREE?
[21:53] <Omega> Yep.
[21:53] <Omega> Forever.
[21:53] <hytreem> and for free?
[21:53] <Omega> I guarantee you that.
[21:53] <Omega> Correct.
[21:53] <hytreem> like not paying any money?
[21:53] <Omega> No money at all.
[21:53] <hytreem> wow
[21:53] <hytreem> why are there articles about this then?
[21:53] <Omega> And the free isn't only gratis, but also be able to look at the internals of ubuntu.
[21:53] <Omega> And share ubuntu.
[21:53] <Omega> With anyone you want
[21:54] <hyperair> hytreem: you can't believe everything you read online.
[21:54] <hyperair> boycottnovell write articles too
[21:54] <hyperair> ridiculous article that do nothing but spread lies
[21:54] <hytreem> i know hyperair, but it's not just 1
[21:54] <hytreem> "boycottnovell"?
[21:54] <hyperair> boycottnovell.com
[21:54] <Omega> hytreem: The articles you read are talking about something different (if the ones you are talking about are the ones I think you are)
[21:55] <Omega> They are probably talking about the governance of the Ubuntu project.
[21:55] <hytreem> Omega, yes that too, and then it tries to predict the future which often seems to look bad, the opposite of what the site promises and what you promised too
[21:56] <hytreem> hyperair, that site redirected me to another site
[21:56] <hyperair> journalists like to do that. it generates readership.
[21:56] <Omega> No, these two things are different.
[21:56] <Omega> The promise is about the Ubuntu project always being free.
[21:56] <hyperair> hytreem: right, techrights has taken over the job of spewing garbage.
[21:57] <Omega> The articles are talking about the community's role in Ubuntu's governance.
[21:57] <hyperair> which article are we talking about anyway?
[21:57] <hytreem> Omega, yes
[21:57] <hytreem> and then it goes on to say that the community will end up having been a puppet that has popularized the by then paid OS
[21:58] <hyperair> hytreem: could you give us a link?
[21:58] <Omega> I don't know what article you have been reading then.
[21:58] <hyperair> i'm now interested in seeing who wrote that.
[21:58] <Omega> The ones I read were well written and not sensationalist.
[21:59] <hytreem> i've read tons by googling but i'll bring out one, hold on
[21:59] <Omega> (Actually, I attended the meeting)
[21:59] <hytreem> http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/business-opportunity-in-ubuntu/
[21:59] <vish> hytreem: that says nothing about Ubuntu being sold ;)
[21:59] <hytreem> comments also contribute to my summarization
[21:59] <vish> even about , anytime in the future
[22:00] <hytreem> hold on i'll give more
[22:00] <hyperair> hytreem: you need to read the entire conversation in context.
[22:00] <hytreem> he has quoted?
[22:00] <Omega> Yes.
[22:00] <Omega> There was a meeting a few days ago.
[22:00] <hyperair> hytreem: i have come to believe that 80% of the people who post comments are idiots, or are masquerading as idiots.
[22:01] <vish> ++++++++++++++
[22:01] <hyperair> one idiot will come up with some preposterous idea
[22:01] <hyperair> the rest will follow like sheep.
[22:01] <hyperair> and then everyone turns into an idiot.
[22:01] <hytreem> that is very likely yes
[22:01] <hyperair> the remaining 20% choose to stay silent, because it's like trying to fight off a sharkfest
[22:02] <Omega> hytreem: Do you have any more questions?
[22:02] <vish> comments section is like folks trying to audition to become a standup comedian
[22:02] <Omega> If you do, don't be afraid of asking.
[22:02] <hytreem> you guys have convinced me i must say
[22:02] <hytreem> the community can drop the project and fork away
[22:03] <hyperair> there's always debian to run to in the event of a crisis.
[22:03] <Omega> Yes, anyone can fork.
[22:03] <hyperair> but i don't believe crisis will come.
[22:03] <Omega> That is the beauty of Free Software :)
[22:03] <hytreem> Omega, actually i have but it has nothing to do with this, when do you see programs like ProTools coming to Ubuntu?
[22:03] <hyperair> what's protools?
[22:04] <hyperair> ah, don't we have jokosher?
[22:04] <vish> i think he means the adobe ones....
[22:04] <Omega> Yes and Ardour
[22:04] <hyperair> yeah
[22:04] <hytreem> hyperair, good for bringing that up, i also read some more neutral posts about the trouble relationship between debian and ubuntu, any ideas on that?
[22:04] <hyperair> hytreem: my impression is that ubuntu developers in general don't resent debian
[22:05] <hytreem> ProTools is what a friend of mine uses on his Mac to produce high quality music, there are some well known artists who solely use that
[22:05] <hyperair> and that a miniscule percentage of debian developers resent ubuntu.
[22:05] <hytreem> resent?
[22:05] <Omega> The relationship isn't really bad to be honest. The Ubuntu Community Council consists of many Debian Developers.
[22:05] <hyperair> https://encrypted.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=define%3Aresent&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[22:05] <hyperair> yes, the relationship between ubuntu and debian is actually really good
[22:06] <hytreem> a common statement i have read is that and i quote: ubuntu profits of all the work done at debian
[22:06] <hyperair> and many ubuntu developers, myself included highly recommend pushing fixes as far upstream as possible, which include to debian
[22:06] <vish>   encrypted.google.com  !!!
[22:06]  * vish reads more about it..
[22:06] <hyperair> hytreem: that's probably something you read from some noisy idiot in some comment.
[22:06] <Omega> vish: http://duckduckgo.com :)
[22:06] <hyperair> vish: heheh i use https-everywhere.
[22:07] <Omega> hytreem: That is not really accurate, we all stand on the shoulders of giants, it's what open source is all about, sharing.
[22:07] <hyperair> vish: incidentally, i get secure.wikimedia.org as well.
[22:07] <hyperair> vish: when accessing wiki stuff i mean
[22:07] <hytreem> so i have nothing to worry about? other than protools coming to ubuntu?
[22:07] <hytreem> Omega, when do you see that happening btw?
[22:07] <vish> meh, i think i'll let the system absorb me :-D
[22:08] <vish> too much hassle;..
[22:08] <hytreem> it will likely not become opensource
[22:08] <hyperair> vish: it won't be too much hassle when someone wielding firesheep steals your session cookies over wifi
[22:08] <Omega> Hah, firesheep, it's been possible long before the shiny GUI :P
[22:08] <vish> ;p
[22:08] <hyperair> or when someone serves you upsidedownternet via arpspoof.
[22:09] <hyperair> Omega: yeah, i know, but firesheep made it available to the skiddies.
[22:09] <hytreem> what's a skiddie?
[22:09] <hyperair> script kiddie.
[22:09] <hytreem> oh
[22:09] <Omega> hytreem: I do not know, you can look at free software alternatives in the meantime, like Jokosher and Ardour.
[22:09] <hyperair> https://encrypted.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=define%3Ascript+kiddie&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[22:10] <hytreem> Omega, i have tried those but the problem is that they are not advanced enough
[22:10] <hyperair> even ardour? i hear that was pretty damn awesome though
[22:11] <hytreem> from what I have seen from my friend, he connected a small keyboard to his mac, chose to play a certain type of beat and repeated that for a while and he had a song
[22:11] <hyperair> hytreem: well, i suggest systematically highlighting the missing features and filing feature request bug reports on ardour. =p
[22:11] <hyperair> that should really be possible with ardour as well, i think
[22:12] <hyperair> sounds like a pretty basic feature
[22:12] <hyperair> but i haven't actually tried
[22:12] <hytreem> if that would be true hyperair I could become a musician
[22:12] <hyperair> well have fun then =p
[22:12] <hytreem> now I can't because I cannot afford a mac with protools
[22:12]  * hyperair gave up on making music.
[22:13] <hyperair> i much prefer listening to music
[22:13] <hytreem> i like both
[22:13] <Omega> hytreem: With Ubuntu we want to make sure this never happens to anyone, that's why it's free :)
[22:13]  * hyperair is happy to make music with frets on fire though
[22:13] <hytreem> what do you mean with "this omega?
[22:13] <Omega> < hytreem> now I can't because I cannot afford a mac with protools
[22:13] <hytreem> yes
[22:14] <hytreem> oh
[22:14] <hytreem> i understand
[22:15] <hytreem> well omega
[22:15] <hytreem> i cannot afford a mac to be more precisely
[22:15] <hytreem> i could afford protools
[22:15] <hyperair> get hackintosh ;-)
[22:15] <hytreem> and a small keyboard to connect
[22:15] <Omega> Give ardour a try.
[22:15] <hytreem> i heard it wouldn't run well because i have suckish hardware
[22:15] <hytreem> ok Omega
[22:17] <hytreem> ardour seems to use something weird for the menu bar
[22:18] <hytreem> will it be a supported program for the next ubuntu version?
[22:18] <hyperair> hmm it's 6am here. i better sleep before the sun rises
[22:18]  * hyperair grins, showing off his fangs
[22:26] <Omega> hytreem: If you have further questions, ask them in #ubuntu, if you have ardour questions, ask in #ardour.
[22:26] <hytreem> ok
[22:26] <hytreem> thank you