# /srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/05/#ubuntu-uk.txt

|Dreams| |Dreams| |Dreams| speed is 30% lower at least 00:00 i moved home tech cudnt get old modem to work apperently 00:00 so fitted this new bag of rubbishnes 00:00 as i understand, you can buy your own cable modem. 00:00 i was quite happy wit m old modem and my dd-wrt router 00:00 the new one doesn't have ethernet ports? 00:01 also has problems with multiple xbox 360s i have 5 in this house lol 00:01 you can simply turn off the wireless, and route the internet to your own dd-wrt box. 00:01 yes but i have 5 laptops in a three storey building 00:01 you have a dd-wrt box, right? 00:02 plus 2 s3's 5 xbox 360,s 2 wii's an a ds and two androids 00:02 hook it up to the virgin box with a cable. 00:02 ps3s*** 00:02 turn off the wireless on the virgin box, enable wireless on the dd-wrt 00:02 and place it on the middle floor. 00:02 yeah i thought of this but i am just pissed that they tryin to force ppl to use shit they make 00:03 they don't force. 00:03 quite annoyed actually 00:03 they just capitalize on ignorance. 00:03 they do to new customers 00:03 as i understand, i could have declined the box if i knew i could use my own cable modem. 00:04 there dlink 615 old cable modem was best offer n best combi they had in ages 00:04 i told the tech i wanted my old modem 00:04 he cudnt get it to work 00:04 "apperently" 00:04 i told him i had a dd-wrthe didnt even kno what it was lol 00:05 wrt-he* 00:05 you didn't need to give him any more information than "i want to use my own modem" 00:05 and the mac address of said modem. 00:05 rightly or not he had to put new modem/router in n i cant stick it going to phone them tomoz get new modem sent out been a customer 5 years and being spoon fed a shit router is not on 00:07 i got 51mbps on my dd 00:07 get 33 now 00:07 they bringing out an option for it to be cable modem only in new update 00:08 cant wait 00:08 hmm, well I think I've found one mistake already 00:13 page 9,  5th line in: “It appears that way.” Said John sullenly. 00:14 === Guest39209 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest35449 I know it's wrong in theory, but I usually stick full stops inside quotes now 00:37 the alternative just seems like invalid nesting 00:38 my brother does copy editing among other things, apparently it depends on context 00:38 wouldn't surprise me, because I'd want a comma in that excerpt.  and .. that way"., said John .. can't possibly be correct 00:40 right 00:40 if the . or , is part of what you are quoting as in this case, it goes inside 00:40 but if you're just using scare quotes around something at the end of the sentence, then it goes outside 00:41 so it nearly always goes inside 00:41 with exclamation mark it is even more obvious 00:42 oh, I was getting at the fact that it says "sullenly" instead of "suddenly" 00:44 sullenly is fine? 00:44 oh? 00:45 ah, would seem so 00:46 i think it said should not be capitalized though, and it should be a comma not a full stop 00:46 sullen fits, unless there's more context that's relevant 00:46 is this the book about git? 00:47 ali1234: yup 00:47 it's written like a novel? 00:47 with like, characters? 00:47 yeah 00:47 interesting, i will check it out 00:48 http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/ebook/gitt.pdf if you don't want to check it out from the git and convert it 00:48 see, now I think that either sullenly, or suddenly could be used in this context 00:49 just depends how he's trying to come accross 00:49 they could, but they would mean totally different things 00:49 is there a place to report bugs? 00:50 that's my point 00:50 he suggested just making a fork of it 00:50 d and l are pretty far apart :) 00:50 i don't know how to fix these bugs 00:50 d and l? 00:50 but the page numbers are bouncing around all over the place, what's that about? 00:50 as I understand it, that's how git works.  you fork, make changes, and file a 'pull request' against the original 00:50 i know how to use git :) 00:51 i don't know how to write latex or whatever this is 00:51 yeah latex 00:51 latex is pretty simple - similar to other meta-type stuff 00:51 \chapter{chapter 1 or whatever} 00:52 \section{Sub title I think is what this is for} 00:52 etc 00:52 reading that, I think sullen is intended 00:52 syn. glum; dude's not happy because their work has been trashed 00:53 it's difficult to suddenly answer something you've been asked 00:53 but he's also angered, so he could be trying to say the statement quickly too though... so I guess either could be used really 00:53 that'd be sharp, not sudden :) 00:54 unless... you're william... shatner 00:54 heh 00:54 well originally I didn't realise sullenly was a word - but well, makes sense if it is a word that this is the word the author intended to use 00:55 seems that there are latex WYSIWYG editors out there 00:56 I can understand why he's used latex instead of a document type though 00:57 sure 00:57 since its in a git repo, its easier to see diff's 00:57 plus it can be exported in any format (just about) with ease 00:57 also, I think the page moving about is intended 00:58 and it was designed for typesetting, rather than secretaries 00:58 shauno: makes sense 00:58 ali1234: I think the reason the page moves about is because he's planning on publishing it... and the page numbers will look fine in printed form. Left page, page number on far left; right page, page number of the far right. 00:59 s/of/on 01:00 sure 01:00 sure. now explain page 7 to me :) 01:00 ali1234: oh, and page 5 01:00 didn't notice those 01:01 it happens on first page of a chapter/week 01:01 having 5 low, 6 book'd and 7 low just looks .. funky 01:01 probably intentional but... i don't like it... and i don't think i'd like it in print form either 01:01 I'd have to agree.  if I discover chapter 10 is on page 81 in the index, I'm flicking thru the numbers looking for 81 01:02 ali1234: could be how he wants it to be formed? 01:02 not the mysterious gap between 79 and 83 01:02 right, exactly 01:02 agree that it's pretty subjective, but can see why it's jarring 01:03 does seem odd, but at least its consistently odd 01:03 because each chapter has the number on the bottom 01:04 easier to those who spit to find a chapter 01:04 s/spit/skip 01:04 don't know what's going on with my typing today :/ 01:05 (paper-only consideration, it's also physically odd to flick thru the center of pages.  corners almost flick themselves) 01:05 probably something that's easy to toy with once it's done, so not a huge concern.  but since you bring it up :) 01:07 [Alan Pope] Thirty Years On - http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/05/thirty-years-on/ 01:07 I was just looking through the latex code 01:08 seems there's no mention of pages, so it must be defined like that by default 01:08 it's probably inherited from a template 01:08 shauno: that does seem apparent 01:11 there's a gitt.toc file that seems to mention something about pages 01:11 \documentclass[a5paper,openright,12pt]{memoir} 01:11 the {memoir} bit 01:11 http://www.tex.ac.uk/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/memoir/memman.pdf  is memoir's manual, and also has the same numbering pattern 01:12 oh, I was thinking more: \chapternumberline 01:12 as seen here: \contentsline {chapter}{\chapternumberline {}Week 1}{7}{chapter.2} 01:12 seems only the chapters have \chapternumberline 01:13 could have something to do with that 01:13 === Guest35449 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest72721 shauno: actually, seems you are right ^^ 01:17 I changed it to article 01:18 and now the pages are at the bottom, however the document is now... erm... messed up 01:18 guessing its because the rest of the document use memoir styled formatting, instead of article-based 01:18 mainly the ToC that seems to be messed up though 01:19 so doesn't seem like it would be hard to fix 01:19 I *think* if you put \aliaspagestyle{chapter}{simple} in gitt.tex, before \begin{document} 01:19 with the included {article} or {memoir} part? 01:20 still with memoir 01:20 see this is why i don't do latex :) 01:20 I'm not quite OCD enough to go download 1.6Gb worth of mactex to find out :) 01:21 1.6Gb? 01:21 mhm 01:21 the book is only 135.2 tar-ed 01:21 135.2KB 01:22 yeah, but I don't have TeX installed 01:22 ah, I grabbed the smaller version 01:22 texlive-base I think it was 01:22 sorry just texlive 01:23 on the mac, I have two options.  a pkg with the entire kit & kaboodle, and whatever else the mac-tex-user-group thought they'd throw in there for sentimental value 01:23 or build it myself 01:23 ah, I forget your on a mac 01:24 my mistake 01:24 heh I give up 01:25 \aliaspagestyle{chapter}{simple} just made it even more messed up 01:25 sweet :) 01:25 now there's some pages with page numbers at the top xD 01:25 that's what I was aiming for 01:25 along with the other ones being at the bottom, and some at the left and right 01:26 so it looks really barmey now 01:26 two numbers on the same page? 01:26 nope, same as it was before - except the first page has it at the top (the blank page) 01:27 the page is also bigger 01:27 hm.  it shouldn't get bigger.  a5 is specified elsewhere 01:27 first page is bigger and has the number at the top 01:27 rest are still as-is 01:27 seems the first page is a4 01:28 that is odd.  the front page isn't a {chapter}, so the alias shouldn't touch it 01:28 also errors out on the make pdf 01:28 so could be why 01:28 oh well 01:29 so the lesson is that it is a global thing that just needs to be tweaked in one place 01:29 and that 3 minutes in the docs isn't enough to figure out where that one place is :) 01:29 yes :) 01:30 but that's the general idea.  {memoir} specifies a few different page styles 01:30 and then chapter, frontmatter, titlepage, etc are pointers to those styles 01:30 indeed 01:30 * HazRPG gives up... moves on 01:30 i'm surprised it took these guys 3 weeks to get to "git log" 01:31 might add in the to-do (different page style?) 01:31 ali1234: ? 01:31 not sure I'd even go that far.  just find a polite way to ask if that's what he's actually going for, or if he's working on the content and hasn't started fighting with layouts :) 01:32 the dude working on it, is barely ever on here (as far as I can tell at least) 01:32 there's a very real chance that 'writing the book' is a priority over 'playing with the meta' 01:33 very true 01:33 ali1234: oh, heh I thought you meant the author did... yeah, in the boot it does seem odd, but well they've never used it before (I don't think) as far as the book's characters are concerned - I think :S 01:34 wasn't really focusing properly when I was reading it earlier 01:35 almost dragged the amiga out today, and then remembered I'm still using it's monitor :( 01:35 :P 01:35 I almost dragged out my Sharp 01:35 ok, finished skimming 01:35 where do i send my list of problems? 01:35 but then realised I don't own any of the old coax cables to put it to the TV 01:35 I'd imagine there's stuff like that that's somewhat dramatised to fit the book 01:36 i see github has an issue tracker, will use that 01:36 ali1234: like I said, when I asked him - he said fork out the git and just commit it back 01:36 my ZX is still setup ;) 01:36 "so they sat down, read the docs, and figured it out.  The End." would make a pretty weak chapter 2 01:36 shauno: haha true 01:36 ali1234: ooo, yeah I just noticed that too 01:37 my miggy is sort of setup.  except I stole the monitor because my laptop's screen borked 01:37 ali1234: :) 01:37 shauno: yeah I remember you mentioned something about that when I was non-stop on minecraft 01:37 I go through phases 01:38 "this week, I 'ave been mostly eating ..." 01:38 :p 01:38 I've a funny feeling I left the cardreader for the miggy at work too, which makes moving stuff onto it a little awkward 01:39 how do you put a card reader on amiga? 01:40 pcmcia to compact flash adaptor 01:40 nifty because my camera uses CF too, so I've a few spare cards, and a usb reader for the laptop 01:41 use that with easyadf to turn interwebs into floppies 01:42 http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=440  is the most sensible €16 I've spent on the thing 01:44 wait, so your old amiga supports flash cards (sort of)? 01:44 yes 01:44 pretty impressed 01:44 my sharp has an expansion port - but I think it was mainly designed for a receipt printer 01:45 I doubt anyone's used it for anything else :( 01:45 still has a tape drive though 01:45 CF is surprisingly easy to support on odd devices.  they're ide-compatible, so anything that's figured out how to use cheap harddrives, can figure out CF 01:45 i have a IDE-CF adapter, don't really think of CF as memory cards any more though 01:45 they're almost as legacy as the amiga itself 01:45 hehe 01:46 I tried a couple of ide-cf adaptors, and never found one it liked 01:46 so you can boot a disk image from CF on PCMCIA? 01:46 I wish all computer still came with a tape drive :/ 01:46 I can't boot from it from pcmcia, no 01:46 or at least a VHS tape drive 01:47 there's a driver for it on the easyadf disk, so it's furniture until workbench is loaded 01:47 because video was stored on those in raw format, I can image that some compressed data on those would mean it could store a fair few gigabytes on them 01:47 i think it's about 1GB per tape 01:48 i could tell you exactly... VHS has about 3mhz bandwidth 01:48 wow... 01:48 really? 01:48 yes really 01:48 hmm... 01:49 by comparison, teletext needs 6mhz, but only uses about 16 out of 625 lines 01:49 hmm, so pretty slow then huh 01:50 by another comparison, a mini DV tape holds about 6GB iirc 01:50 I remember reading about that when I was reading about the TIA chip in the amiga 2600 01:50 wat 01:50 I always had this mental picture that the teletext lines were 'just off the top' of the screen 01:50 i never heard of such things 01:50 what's an amiga 2600? 01:51 I'll tell ya what, I use to remember how long it took to load up stuff on my Sharp from tape, it would take the time to make a cup of tea (literally) and have a sandwich before it would load up 01:51 they *are* literally just off the top of the screen 01:51 if you mess with vhold you can see them 01:51 turns out it's sent in the time it takes the beam to reset from bottom-right to top-left 01:51 same thing 01:51 well I mean, it's not in lines that would otherwise be used for picture 01:52 (could, sure, would, no) 01:52 right 01:52 has a vision of teletext looking funny on HD displays 01:52 digital TV being not analogue, sends nothing in the VBL, just whole frames 01:52 so teletext on DVB get's it's own packets in the mpeg stream 01:53 there's a whole standard for it 01:53 but ofcom banned it in favour of that red button rubbish 01:53 I'd just never thought about the beam actually taking time to get back, until I read dev notes for the atari.  which has almost no video buffering at all, so that time is the time you get to actually compute anything other than the picture itself 01:53 suddenly the travel time becomes significant 01:53 oh, you meant atari 2600 01:54 yeah 01:54 that makes sense 01:54 sorta.  both, really.  the 2600 is where I realised there's actually a gap there that teletext is exploiting.  rather than stealing lines that'd otherwise be useful 01:54 by time I was old enough to do anything remotely useful with computers, we already had blitters.  so it was an eye-opener to think of the screen's timing as being relevant at all 01:58 hmm... forking on github was painless enough 02:00 think there's a market for selling ubuntu computers? 02:00 no 02:00 I think it's "almost but not quite" 02:01 close enough that people keep trying.  not close enough for them to stick with it 02:01 bugger 02:01 how is pull request formed? 02:01 yes there is a market, just not a very big one, yo uwon't get rich 02:01 me and a few mates are just getting sick of crappy jobs 02:02 I wouldn't be surprised if linuxemporium are still doing it.  they were trying hardware before it was cool 02:02 PC market is shrinking IMO 02:04 one's a network admin, and he's currently in the process of "maybe made redundant" ... "maybe not" ... stage, because of a school/college merge so that its just one college with several campuses ... and another who's been working in booze shops for years (but is skilled in maths, programming, hardware) ... and me, currently doing freelance but with barely any work most of the time because cumbria is pants 02:04 same problem as everyone else in the beige-box market tho.  you can't beat dell for price.  so you've gotta figure out where you can beat them.  and whether people will pay for it 02:04 don't get into the hardware biz :) 02:05 make the next facebook or something instead, more chance of success 02:05 reselling dell ftw ;) 02:05 only nobody is spending money atm :/ 02:05 or make mobile apps 02:06 especially tablety, AR, social stuff 02:06 that's gotta saturate at some point.  there's only so many fart soundboards one iphone can hold 02:06 do you think there will come a time when C/C++ is wanted again? 02:06 what do you mean "again"? 02:07 yeah not many people make much money on iphone these days 02:07 C/C++ isn;t going anywhere 02:07 it still is.  it's just not a buzzword 02:07 I mean, money is crap 02:07 in a lot of comp stuff now 02:07 of course 02:07 I think the "right way" is to do crossplatform is to stick the business end in C, and wrap it in whatever moonspeak each target environment wants 02:08 (minus some spare words.  it's 2am ..) 02:08 :D 02:08 everyone I know just says "java" 02:08 :/ 02:08 heh, yeah I keep hearing java a lot recently too :/ 02:09 although, I just don't care atm 02:09 disclaimer, I really don't like java 02:09 but I don't think that's the "right way" anymore 02:09 java ._. 02:09 I mean my second year of my HND we were forced to take Java instead of Advanced C++ as a module (I mean be paraphrasing, but it was because some were thicker than others in the class to take AdvC++) 02:10 you're not going to look at the cash cow that is the iSheep one day, and decide to start sticking that java on iphones 02:10 s/mean/may 02:10 I personally think computers will die in their current form 02:11 you should not worry about what language you are using, i mean you should be able to use them all. the most important thing is to hire someone who can sell your product 02:11 because nobody actually cares about quality 02:11 tough times :) 02:12 * HazRPG feels sad that the whole computing era seems to be a dying breed 02:13 I don't think coding will die 02:13 I think the problem is, everyone knows how to at least use one now 02:13 computers aren't going to go away 02:13 oh I don't doubt that for a second 02:13 I don't look it as an era dying 02:13 they will just go back to being a niche market like they were before about 2000 02:13 ali1234: you don't think they will get smaller, cheaper and just "picked off the shelf" more? 02:13 those aren't computers 02:14 not as we know them, no 02:14 :) 02:14 those are appliances 02:14 so is a computer? 02:14 ;/ 02:14 think when cars were new, and bought by the eccentrics that thought it was a novel horse replacement 02:14 people who bought into the hype around windows XP and the internet in 2000 will upgrade to an appliance 02:14 we're moving from that, to every man and his dog has a car. 02:14 everyone who actually cares (~1% of the people who actually own PCs today) will continue buying real computers 02:15 this will be what kills microsoft btw 02:15 they're already dying, they just haven't realised it yet 02:15 unless they make the xbox platform the platform of choice 02:15 hamitron: I highly doubt it 02:15 I thought sony were ahead of the game, but then they removed the otheros option 02:16 hamitron: don't remind me :( 02:16 that *is* ahead of the game 02:16 meh. big picture, no-one cared about the otheros thing 02:16 * hamitron did 02:16 this is where things are going: locked down appliances that can only run approved software 02:16 this is unavoidable 02:16 oh yeh ali1234 02:16 :) 02:16 shauno: I bought mine under the sole reason that it could have linux 02:17 it's not even particularly bad, i mean you don't have to buy one 02:17 === Guest72721 is now known as LjL-Temp but I felt the otheros option was there to attract users to use an appliance as their comp 02:17 I can't think of a practical scale to explain what sort of minority that puts you in 02:17 one-legged trousers may be a bigger % of the market 02:17 I was going to buy a ps3 the week they removed it 02:17 :) 02:17 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest14861 shauno: I mean I already owned an x360, wii, ds, psp... and since most games for x360 are coming out on ps3 too - my only real reason for a ps3 was for RPG's and Linux 02:18 thing is, there's no reason you can't buy an appliance and a real computer 02:18 but now I decided not to bother, and upgraded my pc for gaming 02:18 and there never will be, because engineers need real computers to make appliances 02:18 but even "real" computers won't be made of seperate bits 02:19 I think they will 02:19 but that's pretty much it. the general public does not need powerful tools like windows XP (lol) to go on facebook. an iphone is plenty, no matter how locked down. 02:19 hamitron: I highly doubt that 02:19 I think PC is going to recede back into what was essentially an enthusiast market 02:19 shauno: that's what i said just now :) 02:19 making 'bits' pretty much defacto 02:19 so prices will rise again 02:19 :/ 02:19 probably 02:20 but not much because things like screens and GPU and CPU are the same 02:20 that was what I was trying to get at with my awful car analogy.  they've gone from being eccentric toys, to transport for the masses 02:20 and RAM and flash memory 02:20 but you're still going to have petrolheads.  and a market to serve them 02:20 indeed 02:21 I just feel something similar to the Eee boxes will replace most "work" appliances 02:21 makes me feel I shouldn't have bothered pursuing a career in IT 02:21 so far it hasn't done me much good 02:21 imo biggest problem with working in IT sector: loads of idiots have gone into it 02:22 lol 02:22 get a 6 week qualification and setup a comp chop 02:22 shop* 02:22 hamitron: is that the one that was recently in confs. about having everything served from one computer to share several screens/keyboards/mice? 02:22 IT bugs me at the moment because it's a complete buzzword frenzy now 02:22 it's basically cloud or go home 02:22 if i hear "ecosystem" one more time i might tear my own ears off 02:23 there is very little specialization anymore 02:23 HazRPG: I am not sure the exact route it will take, depends on demand 02:23 everyone wants to do everything 02:23 shauno: in all fairness it always was after the 80's boom of computers, its been one buzzword after the next (if the documentary Micro Men is anything to go by) 02:23 this is what ecosystem means 02:23 ali1234: agreed 02:24 everyone has to have an app store, a music store, a web mail, and a social network 02:24 web 2.0 right ? *waves arms in a sarcastic manner* 02:24 but that is a market where it only works when there's only 1 such provider otherwise it sucks for everyone 02:24 1 will probably win 02:25 or at least some will die 02:25 nobody corporate is going to displace facebook for social, or apple for music 02:25 thing is tho, it's still a helluva wave if you can figure out how to ride it 02:26 ali1234: I don't know a single person that uses apple for music :S 02:26 so anyone with a mission that says "we want to beat facebook and apple and google at their own games" is just deluding themselves 02:26 HazRPG: yes you do :p 02:26 i mean just taking on any one of them is bad enough 02:26 shauno: guessing you do then :P 02:26 to take them all on at once is a war on multiple fronts 02:26 yup.  unashamed fanboi 02:26 yes Nokia, i am looking at you are your Ovi "ecosystem" 02:27 I dislike the spelling boi - but yeah 02:27 stick to making good phones! 02:27 they're a fantastic example of the change not being the end tho 02:27 yeh :) 02:27 you can lament that computers are turning into consumer appliances.  apple just claimed their iOS devices are the majority of their income now 02:27 i don't have a problem with it 02:28 Nokia's problem was symbian and lack of movement, and unclear direction 02:28 am I the only one that still bye's CD's? 02:28 computing got along just fine without the masses, it will continue to do so 02:28 buys* 02:28 yeah probably 02:28 HazRPG: I've bought one CD since .. 2001 02:28 * HazRPG starting to annoy self with bad spelling mistakes 02:28 I buy all my music on CD 02:28 I expect physical copies 02:29 hamitron: I liked the symbian :/ 02:29 I do 02:29 :) 02:29 I spent everything I had on physical media in my teenage years 02:29 I've moved country three times since then, and have absolutely no idea where any of it is 02:29 I refuse to spend money on something that is just data normally 02:29 I would still use my nokia's if it wasn't for the fact that the only way to update the software was to plug it into the computer and hope one exists that fixes the major bug that seems to only affect me 02:29 there's numbered vinyl in there and all.  I just literally have no idea where it is. 02:30 shauno: ouch 02:30 do you guys buy music online? 02:30 I do 02:30 :-o 02:30 shauno: sounds like me, I have many books that /would/ be worth something (first prints) ... but can't find a single one of them :( 02:31 does having a free spotify count? 02:31 it scares me, think I am a techy technophobe 02:31 HazRPG: I'm pretty sure I know what country my pre-1998 CDs are in.  not 100% sure, but a good idea 02:31 I have 2 houses alone (about a mile apart) to look through, then 3 flats & 2 villas in egypt and 1 flat in saudi after that with stuff all spread between them all :/ 02:31 you need to work? ;) 02:32 my heart bleeds purple expletives :p 02:32 I tend to lose things because when I move, I cross timezones.  and when I do, I do it in one suitcase 02:32 hamitron: I donate money to Jamendo, the artists I like, if that counts? 02:32 donating is different 02:33 this is why my car's in michigan :( 02:33 shauno: I know the feeling, I have issues 1-100 of sonic the comic in saudi in a tin box 02:34 i have an ovi comes with music account too, also free 02:34 but it sucks 02:34 jumping through the hoops apple put up, and giving them money just seems like it is along the path to renting music to me 02:34 HazRPG: a tin box would be fantastic 02:34 apple's hoops are largely a myth 02:34 shauno: whenever I've moved, my parents said "send your stuff by cargo" 02:34 renting the use of their device you bought too 02:34 shauno: like the iPad only including 2 upgrades? 02:35 the music's drm free. aac is standardized. 02:35 if I want to play my itunes library on linux, there is absolutely nothing stopping me 02:35 hamitron: there isn't much use complaining about it. people will find out for themselves why it is a bad idea 02:35 you know, for every time I read "Terms of use may vary" I got a penny, I'd be a rich man 02:35 it will take about 10 years, just like it did with microsoft 02:35 ali1234: sorry, I myself am like a broken record :D 02:36 hamitron: I expect everyone else's hardware is going to find itself EOL'd after a number of OS upgrades too 02:36 they just don't tell you up front, so they're the good guys 02:36 are there android phones that won't run honeycomb? 02:36 I don't think the android market is good either ;/ 02:37 I personally think it is moving too fast 02:37 the difference with the "two upgrades" thing is that you've been told how far into the future you will be supported for 02:37 as is ubuntu 02:37 instead of finding out that your phone isn't shiny enough for the new OS 02:37 hamitron: don't worry, I can be like a broken record too sometimes (and because I do it myself, I find it hard to spot it in other people) 02:37 I think android is missing a trick somewhere... 02:37 it's missing clout 02:38 and consistency 02:38 I mean just think, each update means waves & waves of update rollouts 02:38 the carriers get to wield the power.  and there's not a single telco out there that can be trusted with it 02:38 a platform needs to stick around for a while, to become popular and accepted 02:38 sure hardware may vary, but wouldn't it be better to have it set in stone kernel-side? 02:38 I mean I doubt it'd get too big surely? 02:39 good to standardise hardware imo 02:39 I think the whole mess is too young for standardize 02:39 hamitron: most of the android phones pretty much are 02:39 less regular upgrades 02:39 shauno: maybe everyone jumped on it before it was ready :) 02:40 it's going to grow out of it's clothes every single year.  this is how children work. 02:40 I do agree with you 02:40 you try to slow it in it's infant stages, and it's going to be stunted for life 02:40 yeh :/ 02:40 I still think android is missing a trick :/ 02:41 imo, carriers need to maybe make 1 version a standard stable industry standard, then switch version every few years 02:41 but have the development version free to move forward 02:41 I think they should stick with rolling excitement for now, and let people buy in as often or as infrequently as they like 02:41 I probably will 02:42 :) 02:42 increases profits 02:42 increases wide-spread of linux \o/ 02:42 I can see it giving linux a bad name 02:42 this is the other side of appliances 02:42 I just wish the penguin would be shown at least somewhere in its marketing 02:42 people aren't used to sticking a new OS on their phone every few years 02:42 you get what you bought, and you'll get something newer, next time you buy it 02:43 normal people think about upgrading their phone's OS, about as often as you think about giving your dishwasher a firmware upgrade 02:43 yeah, but from my observation the popularity of android seems to be partly based on the fact that people know updates are coming in thick & fast 02:44 anyone awake? =) 02:44 speedxco1e: sleepranting is popular here :) 02:44 ranting? us? ;) 02:44 speedxco1e: at least 4 people are yes :) 02:44 shauno: agreed :) 02:45 I like our past-midnight rants :) 02:45 :)) 02:45 I'm trying yo learn how to copy files by modification date. I got one folder with 100s of folders created over years. I just need this year. 02:45 and discussions 02:45 and "haz is thick, but insists on  being right" talks :) 02:46 I'm looking into piping find or using rsync. 02:46 that is the best? 02:46 *what 02:46 I would use piping 02:46 I'd just use find 02:47 if find alone enough? 02:48 *is 02:48 find /path -mtime 52w -type f(ile) -exec do something with "{}" ";" 02:48 (I don't know if 1y works for years, but 52w works for weeks 02:48 or s/m/d for sec/mins/days 02:48 wikipedia tells me today is the 64th day of the year.  so I'd find -mtime 64d to return files modified this year 02:49 (it'd probably catch 21 hours worth of files modified on 31st dec 2010, but I can live with that :) 02:50 shauno: thanks, I do some exprimentation 02:51 * speedxco1e is a piping noob, but like to learn more. 02:51 speedxco1e: heh I just imagined that your previous comment was ran through a mature filter just then - it amused me somewhat 02:52 usually if you're looking for files that match a stat-able pattern, find is awesomely powerful :) 02:52 mastering piping seem to be an important part of mastering linux and unix systems 02:54 certainly 02:54 the 'unix way' is to have one tool for one job.  if the job's an odd one, you need to use multiple tools 02:55 but if it's a job that has 'one tool' for it, don't make your life difficult :) 02:55 agreed 02:55 I like how linux has a tool for everything, but very little "I do everything!" tools - means less clutter, and less chance of failure and bugs :) 02:56 I think it just makes a lot of things a lot more transparent 02:57 just a case of mastering them 02:57 I guess 02:57 shauno: let me know what you think of this, been toying with speed tables http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64 02:58 I've put it in ogg/mp3/sid to make things easier 02:58 you can come up with some pretty whacky one-liners, but the command is almost a sentence 02:58 sid files open in totem by default here 02:59 probably because i have resid installed 02:59 this is almost funny.  I seem to have broken safari's handling of mp3s 02:59 ali1234: brobostigon said he could on his totem too (and mine), so I don't think resid is necessary 02:59 shauno is on mac as far as I'm aware though 03:00 ah 03:00 if I click the mp3 link, I get a quicktime container that refuses to play.  if I click the ogg link, I get a quicktime container that *does* play 03:00 hmm, that might be my fault 03:00 nah, it's not the first place I've noticed it 03:00 I just used audacity to make it 03:01 I've a feeling I may have been a bit too violent persuading quicktime it could play some things 03:01 ah ok, *phew* 03:01 it sounds like it changes tempo several times at the beginning? 03:01 I know the intro sounds wacky, my friend pointed it out to me earlier this evening 03:01 around the 3 second mark, it can't seem to decide which way it's going 03:02 did you settle on a tracker yet? 03:02 yeah GoatTracker 03:02 I couldn't get MilkyTracker to do anything :/ 03:03 goattracker won't work unless you're running pulseaudio :( 03:03 i probably just need to recompile it 03:03 ali1234: guessing your not 03:03 never was fond of linux having 3 and a half audio subsystems 03:03 yeah wine audio doesn't work properly with pulse, works fine with alsa 03:03 wine works on my side 03:04 and I haven't changed anything 03:04 it works for a few hours then just stops 03:04 10.10, with wine beta (1.2.2?) 03:04 ali1234: I had OpenMPT looping a song for about an hr without problems 03:05 I get distracted, and forget what's playing half the time 03:05 it's very hardware dependent too 03:05 I guess 03:05 get different results when using different number of cores to run wine for example 03:05 pulseaudio is coming along nicely though, seems more are developing for it 03:05 thing is, even the PA devs recommend you develop to the alsa safe subset 03:06 HazRPG: did you try sunvox along your travels? 03:06 ali1234: what sort of getup/setup you got running at your end of the wires? 03:06 shauno: I saw that one... didn't try it though 03:06 you mean, what computer do i have? 03:06 ali1234: yes :) 03:06 shauno: I pretty much dismissed anything that wasn't already in binary form 03:08 M4A79XTD, phenom 2 x4 3.2ghz, 4GB ram 03:08 was in a lazy mood at the time 03:08 and geforce 240 03:08 sunvox is in binary, just not packaged 03:08 shauno: is it? 03:08 might have to try it then 03:08 the zip on their website contains a bunch of static binaries for various platforms 03:09 vice can emulate C64 midi cart btw 03:09 you can map sid registers to midi controls and stuff 03:09 shauno: ah, no I see why I dismissed it now 03:09 and use a proper sequencer instead of a tracker 03:09 ali1234: nice setup you've got :) 03:10 ali1234: I can't seem to get vice going :( 03:10 I have a feeling I'm missing a BIOS for it 03:10 you need to download the roms separately 03:10 read the readme it tells you where to get them 03:10 hmm, where do they store those? 03:11 /usr/share/doc/vice 03:11 I'm too use to C:\Program Files\ sadly :( (despite using linux since 2006) 03:11 synaptic, "installed files", ???, profit 03:12 haha 03:12 shauno: I just realised I didn't explain why I dismissed it - its because I thought the gui representation of the instruments, and chips (I think?) just seemed like a wacky concept 03:13 shauno: also, wave forms put me off unless I'm working with raw sound files 03:14 you think modular synth is "wacky"? 03:14 no, it just looks wacky 03:14 I think waves are pretty relevant 03:15 triangle vs saw vs sine vs rect is a huge part of what makes up the 'voices' for chips 03:16 === Guest14861 is now known as LjL-Temp it might just be because GoatTracker was the first one I used - along with a GB tracker I owned years ago (despite not being able to get sound out of it at the time) - putting in numbers makes more sense to me then drawing waves myself 03:18 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest28100 reason I was having trouble with milky 03:18 that and it would refuse to let me do anything fancy with the waves I made after I'd created them :/ 03:19 but that might just be ignorance on my part 03:19 when you put in those numbers you're really just typing in samples one sample at a time 03:19 ali1234: I understand that, but /that/ makes more sense then seeing a wave length to me 03:20 I don't understand why... I just know that the numbers seem to make more sense somehow 03:23 nn all o/ 03:25 hamitron: night dude 03:25 hmm, not sure which ROM set to download 03:26 vice-roms.tar.gz; vice-1.5-roms.tar.gz (as recommended in the readme); 03:27 read it backwards :) 03:33 me read the recommended vice-1.5-roms ... 03:33 it's almost a sentence man.  it's a sign :) 03:33 go hang a salami! i'm a lasagna hog 03:34 and with that, it's bedtime.  up since 5, so it's Time. 03:35 last note.  you could remove all questions and go full on nerd.  http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/SID-shield 03:38 shauno: heh I bought a pack that had a speaker with it, along with a few other bits from that 03:39 shauno: however I'm not skilled enough to make a tune out of it all 03:39 you can hook a sid up to it.  you apparently like stuffing numbers down sid's throat.  what else is there to it ? 03:39 also, I got the vice-roms.tar.gz (seems to be the most current version) 03:39 ah, i need to install a libsdl with support for something other than pulseaudio 03:41 true... but its different doing it this way, surely having a SID you'd have to put the numbers in by forming several timing circuits together 03:41 ali1234: oh, doesn't libsdl support others? 03:41 it does but they are in separate packages 03:42 ootb I mean 03:42 ah 03:42 just need to switch it out 03:42 now for the moment of truth with this rom pack (just cp'ed them in) 03:42 nope, still got nothing :/ 03:42 ah 1.5 apparently has a few other files (typical) 03:44 ooo, I got 2 out of 6 working :) 03:48 having no luck with this 04:06 keeps saying the kernal can't be loaded 04:06 === Guest28100 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest32448 find job2011 -mtime -120 -exec cp -rvu --preserve=timestamps "{}" buptest2011/ \; 04:27 I am doint it wrong =/ 04:27 *doing 04:27 it takes files much older than 120days too.. 04:27 ali1234: managed to get that libsdl working dude? 05:01 yeah 05:01 I think its +120 not -120 05:01 speedxco1e: or possibly try taking out the -/+ altogether and just leave as -mtime 120 05:03 speedxco1e: from what I can tell, it needs to be a positive number either way 05:03 ali1234: hmm, got them working :D 05:04 although one complains about alsa, but I can live with that 05:04 had to report some bugs against another program that didn't like me uninstalling sdl-pulse 05:04 ouch 05:05 I wish the communities as a whole would pick one and stick with 05:05 * HazRPG doesn't know what to do now with x64 05:07 however my Sharp had a VERY similar interface to this... so would I be wrong in thinking they ran on a similar os? 05:07 it's possible 05:09 commodore did licence some stuff 05:09 hmm, there's a mz700 emu for windows apparently 05:11 oooooo, there's one for linux too! 05:12 oh... 05:12 under dosbox 05:12 bah! 05:12 what's an mz700? 05:13 i've never heard of half these things 05:13 Sharp MZ700 is the system I had 05:13 came with BASIC and 2 game tapes 05:13 http://www.sharpmz.org/index.html 05:14 wow, it had a built in datasette? 05:14 yup :) 05:14 i wish i didn't thrown out my broken C64 and plotter 05:14 :o! 05:15 was one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itu--nY-9bQ 05:16 for some reason i kept the crap dot matrix printer 05:16 still got that in a cupboard somewhere 05:16 haha nice 05:17 can't believe you threw that out, and a c64! 05:18 well it was broken and i was like 14 and my parents made me 05:18 ah 05:18 just out of interest, what's your age? 05:18 30 05:18 === Guest32448 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest98862 see I never got the mz700 until I was 10 05:20 and I'm guessing my dad had it for a few years before that 05:20 ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtSkZI8CE8 05:21 hmm there's one on ebay for £10 05:21 really? 05:22 I can't see any 05:22 the plotter, not the sharp 05:22 ah 05:22 oh wow it's space harrier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-4Zu0DN2g&NR=1 05:38 i was thinking about space harrier earlier after someone mentioned star fox, it's basically the same game but with sprites instead of 3d 05:39 those graphics are pretty good considering how big the pixels are 05:39 oh wow 05:40 yeah 05:40 good framerate and if you squint your eyes it looks quite good 05:40 i would imagine it looks a lot better on a blurry TV 05:40 you know, I don't recall owning any coloured games for my mz700 05:41 I'm beginning to think my TV couldn't use the MZ-700 properly 05:49 maybe it was pal/ntsc difference? 05:49 because I don't remember there being colour 05:49 that will result in grey picture 05:49 could be 05:49 although I recall my tv had both pal/ntsc - because dad bought it from Saudi 05:50 must have had an ntsc machine (or set to ntsc) and running it through pal settings 05:50 although I can't see any videos of any of the games I had either 05:51 they were just pre-loaded games that came on a tape with the machine 05:51 well the main rom screen was supposed to be blue from what i can see 05:51 hmm, I remember it being blue 05:51 maybe the games made/released with the machine were only grey scale 05:52 ah, it was the mz721 I had to be exact 05:54 because it had the tape drive 05:54 maybe the games were setting it to ntsc mode 05:54 could be 05:54 \o 06:02 \o 06:02 ali1234: woo! Finally found them! 06:03 ali1234: http://www.sharpmz.org/mz-700/10games.html 06:03 those were the games I had on one tape 06:03 and yeah it was colour, I clearly wasn't really paying attention back then 06:04 I recall playing land escape it blue 06:04 circus star sounds like a great game 06:05 haha, it was a really really odd game 06:06 my favourite was Painful Man 06:07 snake and snake was interesting to say the least 06:08 === Guest98862 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest5834 hahaha 06:44 ali1234, not sure but I think this story might interest you - it's a hacker called Morpheus who messed around with the c64... here's what he wrote in an interview with him years later (just a snip from the "any cool stories to share with us?" section): http://pastebin.com/NwWdqqMY 06:46 interview was from: http://www.c64.com/ 06:47 heh 06:48 heh.. a record company sent me some American candy with a 7" I ordered :) 06:50 just re-checked the envelope and found it 06:50 MartijnVdS: nice 07:14 Morning 07:19 daubers: morning 07:20 === Guest5834 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest57433 I'm trying to decide if I want to goto the Museum of computings speccy programming thing 07:22 popeys blog post almost had me booking tickets 07:22 Morning.. 07:28 * daubers ponders if the speccy he has in pieces can be made to work 07:28 Ahh - I remember those.. 07:35 how to share a folder in VB guest windows xp NTFS 07:40 === piro is now known as Guest48437 daubers: I have been to the museum, small but really interesting 08:12 AlanBell: I'm just interested in a bit of naustalgic speccy programming 08:14 I won £10 on the lottery with my dads speccy 08:15 === Guest57433 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest12615 morning 08:23 morning 08:25 * daubers blames popey 08:28 popey: because of you I've got a spectrum and a soldering iron all over the kitchen table 08:29 ali1234, thanks for the fork :) 08:32 Might get the offices metal worker people to quote me on an aluminium shell for it 08:33 lovely black anodised one 08:33 HazRPG, the other thing that i will need some input on - is situations you find yourself in whilst using Git that others might find themselves in and not know how to solve necessarily 08:42 especially if there are multiple answers 08:43 haha daubers 08:45 hey popey 08:48 hmmm 08:55 need to get some connectors to run it into the ariel socket of the telle 08:55 daubers: your challenge of the day is to splice in an HDMI output 08:55 and don't forget to wire the overscan area to the speakers so the borders flicker when loading stuff! 08:56 that was a totally bonkers bit of technical architecture 08:57 AlanBell: If I get another chassis made, I'll get the fixing points made for the revo mobo 08:57 I love that the DS has the same screen resolution as the Spectrum :) 08:57 trying to remember what that was 08:58 I remember it was in three bands 08:58 I've got the service manual if you want it 08:58 complete with circuit diagrams 08:58 black and white with a low resolution colour overlay 08:59 the DS speccy emulator even emulates it 08:59 hello all 08:59 oh the 3 bands 08:59 yes, 256x192 08:59 ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/technical-docs/ZXSpectrum48K_ServiceManual.pdf 08:59 24 lines, 3 blocks of 8 08:59 All computers should come with something like http://www.worldofspectrum.org/ZXBasicManual/ 09:02 I remember being really dissapointed that my Amiga manual didn't have circuit diagrams in it 09:02 heh 09:02 speccy basic was a great manual 09:03 actually taught maths whilst explaining what the functions did 09:03 I learnt algebra from that boot 09:03 s/boot/book 09:03 me too 09:03 kids of today don't know what they are missing out on 09:04 Exactley 09:04 I remember when this was all fields 09:04 And on that note I really should go to the parents and help them dig in 50 bags of mushroom compost 09:04 * AlanBell heads of to Birmingham 09:04 AlanBell: not going to the photography show are you ? 09:09 AlanBell: safe trip! 09:09 MooDoo: nope, a birthday party with jelly and ice cream 09:10 AlanBell: well safe trip and stop teasin :) 09:10 Avé ! 09:12 | Avé Mandrake 09:15 awesome blog post popey :)  remember the magazine Crash! :) 09:16 ta 09:17 Mandrake, I remember mandrake os 09:17 MooDoo, wha'ts it about ? 09:17 livingdaylight: popeys computer history and his first the xz81 :) 09:18 wow 09:18 I don't even know what dat is? 09:18 o_O 09:18 livingdaylight: how old are you? 09:19 MooDoo, :s 09:19 livingdaylight: i didn't mean anything by it :) just if you're a whipper snapper you might not know what it is :) 09:19 MooDoo, I think i had a deprived childhood 09:19 lol i'm referring to the Sinclair ZX81 09:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX81 09:20 our famous inventor, wasn't he? 09:20 livingdaylight: yes, Sir Clive Sinclair 09:20 http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/04/sinclair_zx81_anniversary/ 09:20 30 years old today 09:20 you youngsters today :D lol 09:21 I watched Revolution OS yesterday... still good to see 09:21 livingdaylight: very good film :) 09:21 amazing how it all came together 09:22 === Guest12615 is now known as LjL-Temp opensource is the best 09:22 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest96455 so many opensource initiatives now besides software 09:24 livingdaylight: yup :) get in while the iron is hot :) 09:28 a vote for regular backups here: my other half tried triple-booting her Macbook Pro and it paniced during resizing of the windows partition, and had to be restored from the latest backup, but that had failed, so the previous backup had to be used. 09:32 Mandrake, Avé 09:32 is it best to install on VB using cd or iso image? trying to launch from cd here but after initially starting up it seems to go no where 09:34 dwatkins: +1 09:36 popey: I can't believe it paniced during resize 09:38 * dutchie notes that his backups have been failing for the past x weeks 09:38 * dutchie uncomments the important line 09:38 A backup isn't a backup until it's been successfully verified 09:39 always back your backup up 09:41 livingdaylight: that was the other thing that occurred, having two separate physical copies as well 09:41 dwatkins: what was doing the resize? 09:44 popey: the standard installer, I think - the GUI 09:44 uhm 09:45 which OS? 09:45 turns out it didn't panic, bug gave an error which couldn't be rescued from, so may as well have paniced 09:45 10.10 64-bit 09:45 i wouldn't do a rezise on a mbp with ubuntu 09:45 I'd use disk utility in osx 09:45 oh right. do you use refit as the boot mgr? 09:46 yes 09:46 cool 09:46 do you know of any instructions (i.e. a howto) that's current etc.? 09:47 the one we were following is from the heady days of Ubuntu 8.04 09:47 for which bit? 09:47 after xp is installed to create an ubuntu partition etc. and install 09:48 so you have osx and xp? 09:48 split between the two, no spare disk space? 09:48 that was the stage this mbp was at yesterday, it's just being restored from the backup due to the resize problem trashing the entire disk 09:49 not sure, i dont have windows on mine 09:49 aha I see 09:49 I'd probably not be where you are tbh 09:50 Which Ubuntu do you have on yours? Does all the hardware work, e.g. sound? 09:50 yeah, I see what you mean, popey - she wants to have the option of booting all three 09:50 I would have started with osx on the full disk, then use disk utility to shrink the osx down 09:50 and add two partitions 09:50 then install xp and ubuntu into those 09:51 ah, I didn't know that was an option 09:51 given one has sufficient memory is there any advantage from having a dual/triple boot to using Virtualization? 09:52 i use windows in a vm on my mac, and ubuntu natively installed 09:53 Morning peanut gallery 09:53 I suspect that jono's in for a bit of a blog-bashing today 09:54 indeed, I tend to just run all OSs apart from OS X in a virtual machine on my Mac 09:54 balor: hmm? 09:55 for gaming I guess it's best to run windoze natively for speed, but none of the games I play don't have Mac versions 09:55 popey: http://is.gd/gacZWX Mark called Fedora "Open Core" and Jono said that many of us (people like me) are the "peanut gallery" 09:56 balor: he has already explained that comment 09:56 popey: where? 09:56 popey: It's still ill-advised phraseology. 09:57 http://www.chuckfrain.net/blog/2011/03/04/stepping-down-as-ubuntu-maryland-leader/#comment-1268 09:57 I agree with him 09:57 popey: So do I, to an extent. 09:59 we have a lot of detractors, many who never have and never will use ubuntu 09:59 I dont think they should dictate the project direction 09:59 popey: It's just when you make a black-and-white distinction i.e. inside/outside the peanut gallery, then you have to define who's in it 09:59 popey: So, for example, my student who has never directly contributed to Ubuntu - but has installed it on at least 5 of his classmates machines 10:00 popey: is his opinion on U, from the peanut gallery or not 10:00 I dont believe its black and white like that 10:00 its not a venn diagram 10:00 "All these people are in the peanut gallery@ 10:01 I think you're over-analyzing it 10:01 dwatkins, for gaming its true i can see how running native makes more sense 10:01 popey: I'm a researcher in formal logic, of course I over-analyse :) 10:01 :) 10:01 popey: And my area of specialism happens to be Euler diagrams - Venn diagrams *are* a type of Euler diagram. 10:02 livingdaylight: yeah, it's just that now there are enough native Mac games I'm not concerned about this personally. She is, though :) 10:02 detractor = hater? 10:08 yea, constantly referring to  ubuntu users as part of the "peanut gallery" isn't cool... I agree there. All users should be shown respect and value 10:11 I don't even know what a peanut gallery is.... *googles* 10:11 livingdaylight: nobody did that 10:11 nobody "constantly" referred to "ubuntu users" as part of the "peanut gallery" 10:11 popey, now you're being very precise 10:12 livingdaylight: It was one poor reference, I think. A silly statement. 10:12 ah, people who don't get involved and just heckle, I guess 10:12 only to counter your wild inaccuracies 10:12 livingdaylight: It's important to be precise. Jono doesn't always refer to us as the peanut gallery 10:13 but he is referring to OMGubuntu and similar how-to support sites as being in the gallery? 10:13 livingdaylight: just once, and I believe it was just a bad phrase to use 10:13 i dont 10:13 we have people who constantly pick on us 10:13 livingdaylight: that's the bit that's unclear to me 10:13 balor, not always, good - never is better still 10:13 people who have no interest in making the project better 10:13 they just nitpick everything 10:13 and the reference to OMG is more about the readership 10:14 there's a lot of people who read OMG who are outside the ubuntu community 10:14 popey: I've no idea who those people are. I suspect people who don't care about Ubuntu don't comment on it. 10:14 If it wasn't for sites like OMGubuntu whos tutorials I've used countless times (note that is also not a precise term) I probably wouldn't be using Ubuntu now 10:14 balor: thats flat out not true 10:14 livingdaylight: nobody said omg is bad 10:14 or that it should exist 10:14 popey: Possibly, but I said that *I've* no idea who they are. 10:15 popey, *shouldn't ? 10:15 really? 10:15 popey: Which is why I'm unhappy with the imprecision in jono's words 10:15 yeah, typo, sorry 10:15 popey: And unhappy with Mark referring to Fedora as Open Core 10:15 it is left open for misterpretation at the very least. The tone is not positive towards these sites 10:15 livingdaylight: I think that's the issue in a nutshell 10:16 balor, I read that with open mind and immediately that is how it came across to me 10:16 No-one thinks that Jono meant anything bade he just " left [things] open for misterpretation at the very least. The tone is not positive towards [some community] sites" 10:16 its not the sites that are the problem 10:16 its the readers/commenters 10:17 popey: yes. 10:17 or a subset of them 10:17 popey: Certainly 10:17 popey: It's the imprecision in the comment though. 10:17 meh 10:17 use your brain and interpret it :) 10:17 popey: Yes. 10:17 popey: My interpretation is that some of the Canonical peeps are tired after taking flack about the Banshee thing.  They're struggling to find revenue streams for Ubuntu. And when they find a source, someone crys foul. 10:18 I'm sure thats part of it 10:19 I suppose this is why big companies have PR 10:19 and you only hear the PR line 10:19 they still get that wrong 10:19 It's easier to control the PR line and to not give an honest opinion 10:19 see Apple -> "You're holding it wrong" 10:19 yeah 10:19 remember the head of BP at the height of the gulf debacle talking about his concern for "the little people" that was lol funny 10:20 he flew out there to make it better and made it worse, lol 10:21 this is my point, people might use phrases others find offensive or inadequate, or illogical or imprecise. 10:21 we're a global community and people often pick apart every word someone says 10:21 the Fedora Open Core thing.. well, he has a point 10:22 really? 10:22 Y'know I wouldn't be surprised if Red Hat shutdown their Source ftp site 10:22 I think not 10:22 I hear it's been discussed internally at redhat 10:22 so only customers can get source, and not people like oracle / centos 10:22 === Guest96455 is now known as LjL-Temp but thats just a rumour :) 10:23 That's fine 10:23 But Fedora is not RedHat 10:23 As Ubuntu is not Canonical 10:23 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest91550 Without Red Hat, fedora would not exist 10:23 same goes for Canonical, Ubuntu 10:23 +1 10:23 popey: But the Open Core comment just sounds like sniping. 10:24 Is Ubuntu "Open Core" for canonical? 10:24 we dont have a server version you pay for 10:24 so no 10:24 Given that Canonical have more proprietary services than RedHat 10:24 uh 10:24 those are added services 10:24 RHEL _is_ the product 10:24 Which is Open Source 10:24 hah 10:24 * popey looks for an iso 10:25 * balor looks at the definition of Open Source 10:25 * MooDoo hides his fedora cloak 10:25 balor: open source and open core 10:26 popey: So is Ubuntu "open core" in order to sell landscape? 10:26 no 10:26 (which is proprietary) 10:26 you dont have to pay for landscape, there's no requirement to use it 10:26 as opposed to SpaceWalk, which is open source 10:26 but you _have_ to pay for rhel / up2date 10:27 yeah 10:27 it's a revenue stream 10:27 oh well that makes it okay then 10:27 How else do you make money? 10:27 10:27 That's their business model. 10:27 It's successful 10:27 It's open-source 10:27 problems always arise out of the need for money 10:27 I'm going out 10:27 * balor writes his thesis 10:28 need to take sam to opticians 10:28 such a corrupting influence - every time 10:28 popey, did you see rip-off britain last night? all about opticians in this country 10:28 no 10:28 lenses cost like 0.25p in reality.... 10:29 === supercos1onaut is now known as przem === przem is now known as supercosmonaut === jack is now known as Guest99613 === Guest91550 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest40310 iihhh http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5499289490/ 12:11 oh ffs 12:13 yummy 12:13 the only way of getting any in Finland 12:14 I haven't seen any dandelion burdock sold anywhere 12:15 to  view my shares, I am entering smb:// into the adress bar, it brings up the folders from the other computer, but it wask for three things, the username, Domain and password, but it doesnt matter what I add in there, it wont let me in. How can I find out what the name of the domain is on the other computer? 12:15 http://www.flickr.com/photos/68999878@N00/2716319268 12:21 scoundrel50: you can leave domain empty, and just use username/password usually 12:21 scoundrel50: unless you're in a corporate network with Windows domain server etc. 12:21 MartijVdS:Hi, I tried that, and it greys out the connect button. 12:23 I'm at home 12:23 scoundrel50: just keep what's there then (usually the workgroup name) 12:23 scoundrel50: if the other end is a Windows machine, use a valid username/password on that machine 12:24 === Guest40310 is now known as LjL-Temp Workgroup is in the Domain but I am wondering if its been added as something else somewhere. Keeping Workgroup isnt working either. 12:24 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest171 scoundrel50: are you using a username/password that work on the Windows machine? 12:25 MartijnVdS: right now I am logged into the Ubuntu partition of both machines, and have entered the name of the username and password of the other machine, but its not working 12:26 scoundrel50: ah.. they're both Ubuntu machines :) 12:26 scoundrel50: install "libpam-smbpass" on the "server" machine, then log out and back in 12:27 MartijnVdS: was hoping that might have made things easier, but it doesnt seem so. 12:27 scoundrel50: between two Ubuntu machines I'd use ssh, not smb 12:28 MartijnVdS: ok, one sec, I wii try now. 12:28 scoundrel50: install the "ssh" package for it to work 12:28 MartijnVdS: how do I install the ssh package, can it be done via the Terminal, right now I am using the Terminal to install the other mentioned pack, where do I get ssh package from. Plus, after this has been installed, will I be able to see the windows partition, on this machine from the other machine. 12:31 scoundrel50: "sudo apt-get install ssh" will install the ssh package 12:32 MartijnVdS: just tried that, and its installed, 12:32 "sudo" -> "do as superuser", "apt-get" (package tool), "install" (guess), "ssh" (package name) 12:32 will just log off and be back in a minute, thank you 12:32 MartijnVdS: ok, so logged out, and back in again, what do I do next? 12:35 afternoonings everyone. 12:35 oioi brobostigon 12:36 scoundrel50: "Connect to server" from the menu at the top 12:36 scoundrel50: then select "ssh", put the IP of the other machine in the "server" field, and your username in the "username" field 12:36 afternoonings dwatkins 12:36 scoundrel50: it'll ask for a password when you click "Connect" 12:37 scoundrel50: folder and port can be left empty/default 12:37 MartijnVdS: will that just allow me to see the Ubuntu file of the other machine, how will I be able to see the windows partition? 12:39 scoundrel50: if the Windows partition on the other machine is mounted, you'll be able to browse to it 12:39 MartijnVdS: I'd use nfs if the computers are in a safe lan, ssh adds unneeded overhead 12:40 but to each of their own 12:40 how can I mount the windows partition on the other machine? I can only view it, via Filoesystem, 12:41 Myrtti: nfs has a lot of setup-overhead 12:41 Myrtti: if you just want to copy files once in a while, nfs is overkill 12:41 MartijnVdS: if I go to Places>Network, then click on the Windows Icon, it says unable to mount, failed to retrieve share list from server. I know the both machines can see each other, have worked that out. But cant get rid of that error. 12:42 I don't know 12:44 Its really bugging me, it only developed that error, after upgrade to 10.04, but, my netbook had a fresh install, and it doesnt have that error. 12:45 scoundrel50: did you enable a firewall? 12:45 I now have 10.10 and the error is still there 12:45 nope 12:45 I need to get a firewall installed, but want to sort this forst before doing that 12:46 MartijnVdS: ok, tried that doing ssh, and it says connection refused by server 12:48 scoundrel50: does "nmblookup" work? 12:49 scoundrel50: (nmblookup name_of_other_machine_here) 12:49 MartijnVdS: I just pinged the other machine, and its working 12:49 scoundrel50: please try nmblookup :) 12:49 ok, one sec 12:49 MartijnVdS: ok, that is odd, this is the message I get when I enter that command.......The program 'nmblookup' can be found in the following packages: 12:52 * samba-common-bin  * samba4-clients Try: sudo apt-get install 12:52 MartijnVdS: I dont have samba4 installed, only samba3x 12:52 try samba-common-bin 12:53 that's samba 3 12:53 +part of 12:53 it says failed to find, using both ipo address and computer name 12:55 its odd becauwse I can ping the othjer machine 12:56 scoundrel50: do you know how Windows networking ("samba") works internally? 12:57 scoundrel50: there are a few good debugging guides on samba.org 12:57 ok, will go take a look. I aqm not a geek, I can barely understand some of the terminology used with Ubuntu and windows, but will have a go thanks for the help anyway. 12:58 scoundrel50: Just to be sure.. you have two Ubuntu machines? Or one Ubuntu machine and a Windows machine? 12:59 can I ask, how come I can ping the other computer, but nmblookup fails to find 12:59 scoundrel50: nmblookup sends a request onto the network: "Who has this name?" 13:00 scoundrel50: if nobody replies, or the reply doesn't reach your machine, it'll time out/fail 13:00 MartijnVdS: I have an Ubuntu Netbook, and a Windows machine with ubuntu partitioned. I can see the windows partition using File System, but it wont mount. 13:01 scoundrel50: is there an error message in that case? 13:02 I can ping from both machines, and it works, but dont know why it wont share 13:02 It says unable to mount, failed to retrieve filesystem 13:02 I have no idea, sorry 13:03 But it seems like you're mixing up two problems: 13:03 - Network access from netbook to other machine 13:03 - Windows disk partition access while running Ubuntu on the other machine 13:03 Well, so far, I am just trying to see if I can get my two Ubuntu machines to see each other and share, but I can, the windows, I can try and get to work after I get the Ubuntu machines to see each other 13:04 scoundrel50: the Ubuntu machines can use ssh to share files with each other 13:04 scoundrel50: like I explained earlier 13:05 scoundrel50: if you put "/" in the "Path" box in the "Connect to server" dialog box, you shuold be able to see the entire file system of the machine you connected to 13:05 Its giving me an error using ssh, it says 'connection refused by server' 13:07 scoundrel50: you have to install "ssh" on the machine you're connecting to 13:11 (i.e. the server :)) 13:11 MartijnVdS: sorry was on other machine trying to see if I could connect to this one, it just times out. Will see if I need to install ssh on it. 13:13 that sounds like a firewall issue, or maybe the same network issue that's preventing nmblookup from working 13:14 so how do I find otu if it is a firewall issue. I dont remember adding a firewall. 13:17 I just installed ssh on other machine, but still get time out error 13:17 funny thing, I had no problems at all, before 10.4, worked perfectly, then upgraded, adn nothing since. 13:18 10.10 on both machines still can share 13:18 scoundrel50: on the command line, try: 13:20 ssh -v -l username_on_other_machine other_machines_ip 13:20 scoundrel50: and paste the output to pastebin 13:20 !pastebin 13:20 For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic. 13:20 ok, one sec 13:20 === Guest171 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest39619 MartijnVdS: sorry for taqking so long, its asking for authentification keys, passwords and I just screwed up, so have to start again, sorry 13:27 ok, got something, will post to pastebin now, give me a sec. 13:28 MartijnVdS: here is ther result.......http://paste.ubuntu.com/575969/ 13:31 Dont know what that did, but it did something that allwos me to view Ubuntu from this computer, I'll check to see if I can do the same from the other computer 13:35 * brobostigon decides to try and do a cm7 build for his htc dream himself. 13:36 scoundrel50: you're logged in on the other computer 13:37 scoundrel50: that means connecting using the "Connect to server" dialog should now work 13:38 (even after you log out -- I think it might have failed because of the "Are you sure you want to continue" bit) 13:38 MartijnVdS: ok, there is definately something wrong with this computer, I think its blocked somehow. I am trying that command from the other computer, and its not working 13:40 scoundrel50: what do you mean by that? 13:41 scoundrel50: it should execute commands as you type them 13:41 try things like "ls" 13:42 ok, well, this computer which is the partioned windows computer that I am using Ubuntu from, can now see the netbook, and view its Ubuntu shares, using ssh. 13:42 s1 13:43 that sounds good :) 13:43 So I go to try the same thing from the other computer to see if I can see this computers shares, and nothing, so i try that ssh command I used, and posted result to pastgebin with, adn after the command it jujst hangs and does nothing, so this computer is blocking other computers from seeing it, I think 13:44 this is what I get for the other netbok http://paste.ubuntu.com/575975/ 14:00 MartijnVdS: do you know what this means as well? Your CPU appears to be lacking expected security protections. Please check your BIOS settings, or for more information, run:  /usr/bin/check-bios-nx --verbose 14:02 Hi all 14:04 scoundrel50: Are these netbooks connected via wifi?  If so, does the router block any ports? 14:04 I need to install 10.4.2 on an external drive for my father 14:04 When I tried it before I used the desktop disk and it overwrote the MBR of sda 14:05 baloe: the netbook is connected via wifi, but I have no idea if the router blocks any ports how do I find that out. 14:05 Think I can stop that happening with the alternate? 14:05 balor....sorry for the typo in your name 14:06 scoundrel50: (1) can you ping the other machine, (2) look at the wifi router configuration - they normally have a web admin panel 14:06 balor: Hi, yes I can ping both machines 14:07 scoundrel50: Can you, say, nmap one machine from the other, to see what ports are open? 14:07 scoundrel50: for example "nmap 192.168.1.1" 14:08 ok, will try from the other machine to see what ports are open, is that all I have to put into the terminal nmap? 14:08 scoundrel50: and the ip address.  There are graphical nmap tools, but this is the quickest 14:09 scoundrel50: You should see what ports are open then.  If you can't see the port you expect to be open then (a) it's not open, or (b) the router is doing something strange. 14:09 does anyone know when firefox 3.6.15 will be available in the repositories? 14:10 oki, here is what happened when I nmap'd this machine pastebin.ubuntu.com/575980 14:13 did you try -PN? 14:14 scoundrel50: If they're both actually online, then it looks as if your wireless AP is blocking access between them. 14:14 balor: so how do i get around that 14:15 Synth_sam: is that something I need to try, and if so, how? 14:16 scoundrel50: On my wireless AP, I just went into the management console (a web page) and turned off anything that looked like it was "smart" or "security" 14:16 scoundrel50: run nmap again with -PN as options on the command line before the ip address 14:16 scoundrel50: Like Synth_sam said, you could try "nmap -PN ip" 14:16 scoundrel50: But basically, it doesn't look like an Ubuntu problem.  You'd find the same issue with Windows or OS X as the router is not routing traffic correctly 14:18 balor: ok, I'm trying that from the netbook to this computer, and it seems to be hanging and doing nothing. 14:19 can I ask though, why it should have worked ok before upgrading, 14:19 scoundrel50: -PN can take a while to give back data 14:19 scoundrel50: Ah.  Didn't know that.  If it worked before upgrade, it should work after upgrade.  Maybe it is an Ubuntu issue 14:19 scoundrel50: Do you have a firewall maybe?  did it get turned on in the upgrade? 14:20 I also found this after one of the things somebody else asked me to do, via the terminal, would you have any idea what this means? Your CPU appears to be lacking expected security protections. 14:20 Please check your BIOS settings, or for more information, run: 14:20 /usr/bin/check-bios-nx --verbose 14:20 I have no idea about the firewall, how do I find that out 14:21 um, this is what I got from nmap -PN pastebin.ubuntu.com/575983 14:23 scoundrel50: the "host is up" notification doesn't mean anything because -PN told it to assume that the host is up 14:24 it didn't find any open ports so it's at the same point 14:25 so why is this computer blocked from sharing 14:25 really annoying 14:25 === Guest39619 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest52809 is 192.168.0.3 a ubuntu machine? (I wasn't here for the start of the convo) 14:26 scoundrel50: it's a windows machine? What version of windows? 14:28 XP 14:28 hmm 14:28 These problems have only occured since upgrading. it happened on the Netbook as well, and that wqas only fixed in the end with a fresh install. 14:30 I was hoping I would have to do that on this machine 14:30 upgrading what? 14:30 windows? 14:30 upgrading from 9.04 to 10.04 ubuntu. From 10.04 sharing stopped 14:30 any form of sharing stopped 14:31 the 10.04 machine is sharing and you can't access from windows, or the other way round? 14:31 sorry, I should have explained even more. I have upgraded since 10.04, to 10.10 on both machines. The netbook I decided that I would do a complete fresh inistall of 10.10, but have just upgraded with this machine. From this afternoon, I finally managed to be able to see from this machine using ssh my netbook shares, but from the netbook, this machine is blocked out 14:33 Sorry, been on here for hours, forget who has seen what 14:34 It seems, my only option with this computer, might be another fresh install, if I cant get this machine to share. I didnt want to do that really. 14:35 scoundrel50: just to check if you have the ubuntu standard firewall running, try "sudo ufw status" 14:35 it says active 14:36 and gives a small list 14:36 what are the list 14:36 they are the open ports 14:36 you need 139 and 445 for samba 14:37 one sec I'll mpost to pastebin 14:37 http://paste.ubuntu.com/575995/ 14:38 how did that get started? 14:38 ok, so that is set to leave the correct ports open for samba on the computer that you're on at the moment 14:38 can I stop it, and see if my problems get sorted? 14:39 yes 14:39 "sudo ufw disable" 14:39 ok, one sec, will try 14:39 it will work 14:39 that is set to allow those ports for the network 192.168.1.0 - 192.168.0.254 14:40 I'll just go see if I can see this computer from the other one, brb 14:40 sorry 14:40 192.168.1.254 14:40 and your other computer has an ip address 192.168.0.3 14:40 so the rules need changing if you want to allow that computer access 14:41 if you have ufw active on all of the computers with incorrect permissions, this will explain why you have a problem 14:41 just disabled it, and I can see this computer from the other one 14:41 bingo, if you want to set up the actual rules to keep your firewall on, I can walk you through that too 14:42 so, its the ufw firewall on here that is blocking other computers. So how do I fix that, so I can keep the firewall going, and view the shares? 14:42 sorry, was typing, cant type and read 14:43 would that be possible please 14:43 its take about a year to work this out 14:43 right, if you don't have computers in the subnet 192.168.1.0/24 then you can delete those rules first 14:43 "sudo ufw delete " 14:43 where number is the line number in the list from before 14:43 run ufw status to get the numbers again every time you do it 14:44 ok, I am realloy sorry, but you have lost me now 14:44 then do this "sudo ufw allow from 192.168.0.0/24 to any port 139" 14:44 that allows traffic from other computers to port 139 on your computer 14:45 other computers in the subnet listed 14:45 i.e. 192.168.0.1/2/3/4/5/6 etc 14:46 then do the same for port 445 14:46 that's samba sorted 14:46 any other services you want? 14:46 22 for SSH 14:46 um, can I ask, I am a bit lost, from the start. I have no clue at all about the firewall 14:46 ok, the default rule for the firewall is to deny traffic 14:47 ok 14:47 so you add rules as exceptions 14:47 the last pastebin you did said that you have ports 137,138 and 139 open 14:47 first off, I disabled the firewall, I need to enable it again, how? 14:48 sudo ufw enable 14:48 ok, done that 14:48 the prots now 14:48 ports, sorry 14:48 what do I need to do now? 14:50 right, delete the rules that exist already by running this command: "sudo ufw delete 1" three times 14:51 ok, 14:51 done 14:52 run sudo ufw status 14:52 any rules listed? 14:52 nothing listed, just says status active 14:53 ok, so now you can add exceptions like this: "sudo ufw allow from 192.168.0.0/16 to any port 139" 14:53 (from 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.254.254) 14:54 do the same command for port 445 14:54 that should allow both ubuntu and windows access on your local network 14:54 ok, will give it a try 14:54 /16 14:55 oops 14:55 what is in brackets do I add at end of port? 14:55 no 14:56 I was telling you the ip range that applied to 14:56 that's the range that 192.168.0.0/16 refers to 14:56 ojh ok, now I understand, just did the first one, about to do the second 14:56 just added those, will go check the other computer to see if I can see the shares, one sec 14:57 um, something stopped it working again 15:01 hmm, strange 15:02 Its definately the firewall, I just dissabled it again, and I can see this pc from the netbook 15:03 so, its the rules 15:03 funny thing, in Network, I now have the Ubuntu Icons and one os for this computer, but it still says when I click on it, unable to mount 15:05 the new Icons werent there half hour ago 15:05 ok, just checked this computers Icon from the Netbook, clicked on it and it opened up the shares, so i can see. Its how it used to work 15:06 well you can try adding ports 137 and 138 too and see if that makes any difference 15:06 oh wow, just gone into the Places Network on nthis machine, and the other computers Icons are there. 15:07 I'll try add the other two ports one sec, to see if it works 15:08 yep, I can see the netbook shares from Network. 15:08 ok, about to add the other ports, one sec 15:08 so the netbook probably doesn't have ufw running then 15:09 it doesnt look like, I'll check as soon as I check this one, I just enabled ufw again, one sec 15:10 I need to log out and back in again to check one sec 15:10 brb 15:10 Synth_sam: back again, right, I can view this computers Ubuntu files from the netbook, but I have the Netbooks Icon still in the Network, but the unable to mount error is still coming up, so its the ports going out that are blocked by the sounds of things. 15:15 scoundrel50: what is the error that mount gives? 15:15 Unable to mount location - Failed to retrieve share list from server 15:16 if I stop the fireguard, I can see the shares, so its the fireguard 15:17 is there another port that allows sharing 15:18 I just checked with the ssh way, and I can see the neetbook from here, but I cant view this computer 15:19 if I stpped ufw, how secure would I be? 15:20 if you have a router with a firewall between your network and the internet, that's fine 15:21 but if you use your computer on a public network you will want ufw running 15:21 but you can do that when you move your computer 15:21 just run "sudo ufw enable" 15:21 Its just me at home 15:24 yes, but you have the firewall on your router switched on? 15:24 funny thing is though, if I click on the icons for desktop or pictures when trying to view the other computer, I still have to log in, but, no matter what I try to use, I cant log in. 15:25 oh yes, I havbe that one switched on 15:25 so can actually get into the other computer 15:25 still cant, sorry 15:25 very frustrating 15:26 we are getting there 15:26 === Guest52809 is now known as LjL-Temp the computer you're trying to get into is ubuntu? 15:26 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest63306 but I just work out now what username, Domain and password I need, 15:26 yes, just trying to access Ubuntu at the minute 15:27 if it's a ubuntu computer, you need to have ran smbpasswd on that computer to activate your user for samba 15:27 how do I do that? 15:27 you said that this was working before though right? 15:27 yes 15:28 before upgrading to 10.04 15:28 so how do I set up smbpasswd 15:35 um, somebody I met on here set it up for me 15:36 Oh well, thank you any way, I really appreciate the help. 15:38 right, try "sudo smbpasswd -e 15:38 " 15:38 see what that says 15:38 for which computer, this one or the one I am trying to view? 15:39 the one you're trying to view 15:39 it said enabled username 15:42 that it was enabled, or that it has enabled it? 15:42 if it was the latter, then try connecting again 15:42 it said Enabled user 15:43 hmm 15:44 and I still get the Password required box appear 15:44 yeah, you will 15:45 it's very strange 15:45 but its not allowing me to enter a password, doesnt matter how I do it, it isnt accepted. 15:45 try (on the computer you're trying to connect to) to run smbpasswd as the user you're trying to connect as (i.e. no sudo), it will set your password for samba for that user 15:46 ok, one sec 15:46 would work, it said filed to connect to computer 15:50 ok, in smb.conf I just discovered the workgroup for this computer is called ATLANTIS I wonder if I entered that on the Netbook, if it might work, one sec 15:51 ok, that worked, where ATLANTIS came from, I have no idea. 15:52 you found atlantis! 15:53 Now I have to find the smb.conf file on the netbook, and see if I can get that to work 15:53 yep 15:53 lol 15:53 I feel like I am in the twilight zone, to be honest, lol 15:53 but, I think we have got there 15:54 brb back, when I find the name of the workgroup for the netbook 15:54 connectbot is one cool app  doing irc through ssh from my htc evo 15:56 now all i need is a bigger keyboard 15:57 knightwise: nifty, but I can imagine the pain of typing on a phone 15:57 allthough the next size up is a tablet 15:58 yes, but you still have to type with touchscreen then 15:59 touch typing 15:59 *hide* 15:59 Synth_sam: ok, this is bizzare, why is it that smb.conf file isnt automatically installed, when smaba is installed. That is both computers now, that didnt have the smb.conf file there. it means I have ti uninstall and reinstall again to ge the file, and go through all the process of sharing again. Whys is that? 15:59 thats ok  i am wicked fast on the ipad 16:00 scoundrel50: I have absolutely no idea, are you sure you're looking in the correct place? 16:00 /etc/samba/smb.conf 16:00 oh yes, /var/lib/samba/ no file 16:00 but havung my servers cli on my phone is the bomb 16:01 ok, that is different to what I was told yesterday# 16:01 zing! 16:01 well, mine is installed in etc 16:01 based on what I was told yesterday, I had to go and uninstal and reinstll samba 16:01 scoundrel50: that's not necessary, unless you didn't install it from the package? 16:02 sudo apt-get install samba 16:03 well, that is what I was told to do yesterday, but never mind. 16:04 ok, this is very strange, 16:05 on thi9s computer there are quite a few files in the /etc/samba/ direcotry including smb.conf plus a directory colled tis. 16:06 in the netboopk there are only two files, one is a smb.conf file. 16:06 strange thing, having put a smb.conf file into /var/lib/samba that was when it worked. The file in /var/lib/samba has a different name to the on etc/samba/ 16:07 I am totally confused now 16:07 I dont know, all I know is what I was doing yesterday, what what I was told to do. Can somebody tell me, in etc/samba/ what you have in there, 16:09 http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/576022/ 16:11 I have 7 files and a directory 16:14 ok, strange that this is, where I have added the smb.conf file to .var/lib/samba/ it has the workgroup ATLANTIS in there, in /etc/samba/ it whas workgroup in there. 16:16 as the workgroup 16:16 scoundrel50: you usually don't have to touch /var/lib/samba "by hand" 16:17 config files go in /etc 16:17 but I cant get the get this computer to open up the netbooks shares 16:17 Its only what i did that somebody from here told me to do yesterday 16:17 I dont have a clue, I wouldnt have know where to look 16:18 whatever happened, I can view this computer, using ATLANTIS as the workgroup, which is found in the /var/lib/samba bit 16:19 ok, so what do I do now? 16:19 what do you mean? you're sorted aren't you? you can see your files? 16:21 I can now see this computers files, from the netbook, but not the netbook from here, I can see the folders, but I cant log in 16:21 it wont accept my details 16:22 which is what i been trying to tell you, 16:23 * brobostigon returns 16:23 Run away! It's brobostigon! :) 16:24 (hi :P) 16:24 only 20 hours left until my 20km run (first official "race"/event) 16:24 hi MartijnVdS :) 16:24 http://www.20vanalphen.nl/uploads/images/H6XwRysalAkUZ-EOUJwtjw/20km.pdf 16:26 ^ that's the route 16:26 === Guest63306 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest92789 !EBrarian The Three Investigators 13 - The Secret of the Crooked Cat (US) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.28 MiB 16:35 !EBrarian The Three Investigators 14 - The Mystery of the Coughing Dragon (UK) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.10 MiB 16:35 Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) 16:35 !EBrarian The Three Investigators 14 - The Mystery of the Coughing Dragon (US) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.30 MiB 16:35 Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) 16:35 Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) 16:35 MartijnVdS: good luck, :) 16:36 !piracy | g5236m 16:38 g5236m: piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o 16:38 DJones: I suspect it's a bot 16:39 mgdm: I doubt it, its aimed at a channel on undernet 16:39 !list 16:42 This is not a file sharing channel (or network); be sure to read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type « /msg ubottu !bot » 16:42 * Myrtti ponders 16:42 lubotu3: you're not ubottu, your'e lubotu3 16:43 Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) 16:43 I've tried that line at work.  didn't get me far. 16:44 apostrophe's are hard 16:46 workgroups for shares, do they have to be the same for all computers, such as the main computer is ATLANTIS, will I need to change the workgroup of the netbook to ATLANTIS as well, if so, how can I open it to change it. 16:51 * brobostigon is having bad luck with natty today, ireevocable full screen graphics atricfacts, ireetrieveable only by reboot. :( 16:59 Oh dear, this might cause some complaints https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-buttons-go/ 17:03 Fear change! 17:07 bigcalm: fear annoying change 17:07 ("stop telling me how to use my computer") 17:08 Quite 17:10 I wonder what KDE looks like these days 17:11 I used to run KDE for one month in six to see what it was up to 17:11 I've not done that for a while 17:12 Can anyone check I'm not being stupid with this regex.. I need to match this format "/2010/03/03/blarg/" as briefly as possible.. is this correct? "^\/20.\/$" 17:13 Just got to say, thanks to those who helped, I have now got it working........ 17:14 ah shoot I must have missed cbx333 17:24 hi all 17:24 === Guest92789 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest57979 mornin HazRPG 17:33 shauno: indeed ^^ 17:33 hmm, just downloaded a few demos for the c64... which I'm assuming based on the history I read were coded by individuals who owned c64's, and just decided to colab. together... 17:38 but I can't seem to get it to play any the other info off the disk 17:38 I can only see the intro 17:38 * HazRPG keyboard mashes all keys 17:39 in a lot of cases the intros *were* the demos 17:40 In a lot of cases, the demos were better than the game :) 17:40 s/demos/intros 17:41 oh 17:42 mgdm: been having a look at symfony recently? 17:42 bigcalm: Oh heck no - someone else pointed me at it 17:43 Hehe 17:43 its just under the "contents" show several different things for the disk images, I just assumed there would be more on them 17:43 with quotes like that I'm not likely to be a user ;) 17:43 I think who ever wrote that missed the point 17:43 Awww 17:43 One weirdo does not make a project 17:43 that's the project's official documentation 17:43 and it's not just that 17:44 HazRPG: LOAD "$",8 17:44 if you're using a proper C64 or an emulator, that'll get you the disk directory 17:44 then choose the file you want and do LOAD "FILENAME",8,1 17:44 * mgdm is having flashbacks to a happy time 17:44 LOAD "*",8,1 just loads the first thing on the disk, which is what I suspect happened 17:45 of course, I could be missing the point :) 17:45 hmm, LOAD "\$",8 17:46 shows nothing 17:46 === issyl0 is now known as Guest71127 hmmm 17:46 === Guest71127 is now known as issyl0 well at least this demo tells you how to switch the song :) 17:55 mgdm: I'm guessing these demo use to be on floppies? 17:56 yeah 17:57 or shared via BBSes 17:57 original floppy or 3.5? 17:57 5.25", which is neither 17:57 If they were C64, I would expect they were on cassette tape originally 17:58 either or 17:58 the C64 had both 17:58 Mine only ever had the cassette brick 17:58 hmm, didn't realise there was 5.25" floppies 17:58 * bigcalm suddenly feels old 17:59 I'm sure I have norton on an 8" 17:59 DJones: I got a 1541 fairly late on 17:59 somewhere..... 17:59 HazRPG: 5.25 were the most common before 3.5 17:59 8" was older and far rarer 17:59 mgdm: I'd possibly switched to an Apple II by that point 18:00 hmm, I only ever saw 8" and 3.5" 18:00 HazRPG: The Apple II's used 5.25 floppies by default 18:01 mgdm: BBSes? 18:01 Sheesh, you're a young'un 18:01 DJones: ah, I never saw the Apple II 18:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system :) 18:01 With the 14.4K modem if you were lucky :) 18:02 I never had a modem 18:02 my first experience with the internet was in the 90's 18:02 I didn't think the Apple II was that common in the UK 18:03 or even a modem for that matter 18:03 well, so was mine 18:03 mgdm: I knew quite a few peple with them, plus the college I was at  used them as the main computer equipment 18:04 * HazRPG recalls the fun of connecting directly to someone's PC via a modem :) 18:04 Our schools had BBC Micros and Masters :) 18:04 mgdm: so did ours :) 18:04 they weren't released at the tim 18:04 Probably the end of my 2nd year at college before they were released 18:05 man I miss the good ol' days 18:07 seems I missed a lot back in the home computer days 18:11 :( 18:11 probably why I like irc too much, first thing I really used when internet started becoming wide-spread 18:12 anyone here ever used a web-crawler? 18:14 * bigcalm hates spiders 18:17 * popey chomps his graze box 18:18 and the contents :) 18:18 Heh 18:18 Off to Wolverhampton for chinese buffet in a bit. Must resist graze nibbling 18:18 ooo, which chinese? 18:18 the big one? 18:18 Yep 18:19 in the town centre 18:19 :) 18:19 nommy 18:19 It's our fave 18:19 understandable! 18:19 The Imperial 18:19 didnt realise you lived near wolves 18:19 thats it 18:19 been there a few times now 18:19 About 30 min drive from here 18:19 where are you? 18:19 Nearish to Telford 18:19 ah 18:19 http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Church+Aston,+Newport,+UK&aq=0&sll=52.758198,-2.3795&sspn=0.008194,0.018539&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Church+Aston,+Newport,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.675549,-2.289963&spn=0.262705,0.593262&z=11 18:20 ooooo, i want chinese now! 18:20 Hehe :P 18:20 I've never been to Holyhead, I wonder if Hayley would be up for a drive tomorrow :) 18:22 Nope, work to do. Ho hum 18:26 popey: did you break mc? 18:27 evening 18:28 === Guest57979 is now known as LjL-Temp Afternoon 18:28 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest83456 kinda given up on mc again until it gets an update that doesn't crash non-stop :( 18:29 Wow, that sucks 18:30 bigcalm: i saw a tweet that the login server is now up 18:30 which implies it was down 18:30 11821 Segmentation fault      java -Xms2G -Xmx2G -jar MinecraftLauncher.jar 18:30 real0m45.441s 18:30 apparently the last session I have logged lasted 45 seconds before it died 18:30 score! 18:30 Tried a different java? 18:31 re that is 18:31 I hadn't even realised that the new launcher even works 18:31 I'm on osx .. I don't believe there's many options for java 18:31 Ah 18:31 there may be an su^WOracle-blessed dist somewhere rather than the vendor one, but I'd rather not break stuff I have that does work 18:33 shauno: Oracle redirects you to the Apple Update service :) 18:36 shauno: Real PITA with the supermicro IPMI stuff, as you end up in a loop going backward and forward 18:36 haha this demo is mega 18:37 glad I haven't tried that then.  the vendor package works fine with the package I use at work, so I leave it alone :) 18:37 although there a few samples of grease in this 18:37 were most of the demos seriously made by the Swedish, or have I just come across a site where they uploaded to? 18:43 argh. 18:43 I've got the dandelion burdock sodastream concentrate - but I'm not at my sisters (who has the machine) 18:44 NEEEDDDD D&B 18:44 Myrtti: wow your has a sodastream machine :o 18:44 yeah, she has been working as a bouncer at the local football club and they don't get paid with money - they get stuff from the football team sponsors 18:45 so she bought the most expensive sodastream machine the local white goods merchant had 18:46 with the gift certificate she got 18:46 nice 18:46 oh well, perhaps I'll just have some strawberry-rhubarb cordial 18:46 Hi all 18:47 have you made fizzy milk yet? 18:47 Think I've managed to get Irssi sorted 18:47 I can't believe I missed that trick when i had one when I was younger 18:47 mgdm: doesn't it go sour? 18:48 Not sure, never tried 18:48 carbon dioxide is known as "carbonic acid" as well in Finnish... 18:49 especially when it's dissolved into water 18:49 Myrtti: carbonic acid is carbon dioxide dissolved in water (it creates acid) 18:50 precisely 18:50 Synth_sam: carbon dioxide ice is called carbonic acid ice here 18:50 yes, because it's ice with carbonic acid in it 18:51 *shrug* live and learn 18:51 carbon dioxide reacts with water in an equilibrium 18:51 water and carbon dioxide on one side, carbonic acid on the other 18:51 (I'm a Chemist, if you hadn't guessed) 18:51 * daubers waits for the chicken to come out of he oven 18:51 I used to love chemistry at school but I sucked in maths 18:52 I'm doing a PhD, so the maths has calmed down again 18:52 so I moved away from my plan of physics and chemistry and moved over to biology and history :-P 18:52 (and ended up being a computer geek) 18:52 oh well 18:53 haha, yeah, that's my hobby ;) 18:53 bah, I need to fix my webcam again with sugru, my first hack didn't quite work out 18:54 who's the webcam made by? 18:54 I have no idea, it's Skype branded 18:55 I've made little hooks on the feet to keep the rubber band in place 18:55 meh, I've got a logitech one, the quality in ubuntu is terrible 18:56 it's Quickcam pro 9000 18:56 can get 720p in windows, but just seems to work a lot worse in ubuntu 18:56 chicken out! Just needs to rest for 15 minutes 18:58 http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5499672993/ :-> 18:59 and we moan about the amount of snow we had this winter.... 19:00 yeah, we have to plough the roofs of some buildings here 19:00 this year people have actually gotten killed by snow dropping from the roof :-( 19:00 :S 19:00 HazRPG, hi,  sent you cd's yesterday,  sorry for the delay been busy 19:01 zleap: you sent me CD's? 19:02 yeah, er i think it was you, we chatted a whole back 19:02 said i would send you a ubuntu cd 19:02 zleap: hmm... cumbria? 19:02 think so 19:02 wow, didn't realise I'd given my address to anyone :S 19:03 hmm 19:03 i think it was you anyway 19:03 sent em yesterday 19:03 okay, I always thought the "fire" button was CTRL or SPACEBAR 19:06 what button does this game want me to press >_< 19:06 what is "fire" button >_< 19:06 the red one on the joystick :) 19:06 might be enter 19:07 depends on your emulator's setup 19:07 hi 19:10 zleap: hi 19:12 hows you 19:12 nope... 19:12 pretty good, drinking champagne, you? 19:12 shauno: I don't know how I forgot that, shows the last time I cracked open any of my old machines 19:13 relaxing,  got back from a lug meet an hour ago 19:13 lug? 19:14 Synth_sam: linux user group 19:14 yeah 19:14 ahh 19:14 that makes sense :) 19:14 Linux is slowly getting around 19:15 esp ubuntu, 19:15 yeah, I finally made the jump at 9.10 19:15 haven't looked back 19:15 cool 19:15 well, still have to use windows at work for some things 19:16 shauno: well this sucks, I can't get it so play the game 19:16 I thought selecting the numpad would have given me something, but it hasn't 19:17 yeah  thats a case in a lot of places,  its the next upgrade cyclke you can look in to where windows can be replaced 19:17 was really looking forward to playing Metal Warrior 19:17 zleap: yeah, unfortunately, there is some proprietary software for controlling analytical instruments that can't be replaced 19:17 Synth_sam: you might be surprised ;) 19:18 ah so very specialist 19:18 Yeah, I'm a Synthetic Chemist 19:18 i would have thought that linux would be better in a critical environment 19:18 Synth_sam: nice :) 19:18 There are linux versions of some of them, but they're quite expensive 19:18 from the people that make the equipment 19:18 ah,  typical eh 19:19 and the university has licenses for the windows software 19:19 Synth_sam: I use to enjoy chemistry at school, but they wouldn't allow me to pursue it because they felt my computing skills was better in Saudi :/ 19:19 ahh 19:20 * zleap likes chem too 19:20 I liked chemistry before I did a degree in it 19:20 nothing better to make you tired of it 19:20 but I liked the practical side 19:20 yeah I did a degree in computing, wish I'd left it as a hobby 19:20 me too 19:20 haha, funny how that works 19:21 This is why I didn't consider photography as a job 19:21 Synth_sam: don't get me wrong, I love working with computers, but I'd rather I hadn't done a degree in it 19:21 well HND* 19:21 HazRPG: the problem I had with the degree was the amount of maths 19:22 Chemistry is fun until you start studying the Schrodinger equation 19:22 I could be a potter. 19:22 (Quantum mechanics) 19:22 i thought that was more physics 19:22 I'm still bitter I went for the mediatechnology instead of it 19:22 I love the theories about Quantum mechanics, but I don't think I could ever get my head around them 19:23 i have heard of that,l  is that about a cat in a box adn it being half dead or half alive 19:23 zleap: It helps to understand the fundamentals to be able to apply them.  It's Chemical Physics, or Physical Chemistry 19:23 ok 19:24 Now my maths go about as far as calculating quantities for reactions 19:24 :D 19:24 much better 19:24 same here i think 19:24 hi issyl0 19:24 hey there everyone 19:24 hi cbx333 19:24 hi cbx333 19:24 === issyl0 is now known as Guest20283 cbx333: welcome back :) 19:24 Hi zleap! 19:25 Gargh. 19:25 hows you 19:25 cbx333: noticed your comments earlier this morning when I got up this afternoon xD 19:25 hi zleap, Synth_sam, HazRPG 19:25 heheh 19:25 awesome 19:25 Guest20283: hey, interesting blog post 19:25 I'm thinking of adding a new section - will put it up on the wiki 19:25 === Guest20283 is now known as issyl0 cbx333: I'm guessing ali1234 mentioned me in his git fork? 19:25 cbx333: or did you check the logs? 19:25 issyl0: You're not the only person I've known going through that kind of hell ;) 19:26 i need to do more on the forums 19:26 i didn't see you mentioned 19:26 just checked the logs now 19:26 cbx333: ah, its just you said thanks for the input to me and ali1234. 19:27 nigelb: heh, thanks. 19:27 ahh yeh 19:27 cbx333: was wondering how you saw I'd done any input when I hadn't uploaded anything yet 19:27 hehehe 19:27 i meant the "other" input 19:27 issyl0: At least that explains why I see you less on IRC.  College. 19:27 cbx333: ah 19:27 nigelb: well, kind of.  Not that there's much to do at college, as you've read, but yes, that is one reason.  :-) 19:28 cbx333: well, I don't know what ali put down, but shauno, ali and I thought the page number scheme is a bit iffy - but couldn't work out latex to change it 19:28 nigelb: PM? 19:28 issyl0: sure :) 19:28 lol http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx has 107 errors 19:28 === Guest83456 is now known as LjL-Temp hahah 19:29 I'll figure it out if you tell me what you want to do 19:29 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest97443 cbx333: did a bit of a play with it and managed to get it to change, but it would error our other parts of it, so we figured it'd be best if we just mentioned it to you - but I'm guessing the book was more important then the formatting of it at the moment :P 19:29 zleap: 107 errors where? 19:29 ran  it through the validator (W3 .ORG( 19:29 haha 19:30 lol 19:30 all input is good input 19:30 or maybe its due to it being an asp rather than html page 19:30 you have to think, microsoft designed IE, they shouldn't be trusted with the internet 19:30 cbx333: well from what I can see, if you change {memoir} to {article} it changes the page numbers to a better format, however like I said when I compiled the book back to pdf, it sort of came up with a few errors on compile time (but hitting enter would make it continue) 19:30 and the pdf looked funny for the first few pages 19:31 cbx333: if I figure it out, I'll fork and upload it :) 19:31 cbx333: its just strange to have the pages numbered alternating left and right, and then on the bottom for chapters 19:32 HazRPG cbx333: what's the LaTeX file? 19:32 just tried validator on w3.org all ok 19:33 especially if its going to be distributed as pdf (most will probably have it on their ebook reader) 19:33 but even on print it will look odd if your looking for a specific page 19:33 Synth_sam: hold on 19:33 k 19:33 Synth_sam: gitt.tex 19:34 if you change {memoir} to {article} it puts all the page numbers at the bottom 19:34 but I'm not sure if using article as a template messes up a few other things on that LaTeX file 19:34 HazRPG: What document are you referring to, I have no point of reference. 19:34 Synth_sam: https://github.com/cbx33/gitt 19:35 nm, google solved that 19:35 thanks 19:35 https://github.com/cbx33/gitt/wiki - HazRPG, see my new comments about After Hours sections 19:37 I want to give the reader steps to take it further if they want to 19:37 all in one place 19:37 I think it's important that they understand the technical mechanisms 19:37 HazRPG, I will look at the page numbering 19:38 tbph once I had a PDF that looked a little like the odt I had, fonts etc....I kinda stopped working on the LaTeX itself 19:38 but I would like to put some little icons in the breakout boxes 19:38 and shade them lightly with a grey percentage 19:38 lemme add that to the TODOs 19:38 feel free to raise an "issue" on github about the page numbering 19:39 cbx333: looks good to me :) 19:39 sweet 19:39 it can be like John's over the weekend reading :) 19:40 I would call extra curricular activity 19:40 has anyone experienced this in natty, when the whole screen would turn into one huge graphical artifact, its happened severaltimes today, and i canonly recover, by forceing reboot via pwer button. 19:40 but that could be taken several ways 19:40 now lemme delve into the page numbering 19:41 cbx333: sure no problem I will :) 19:41 brobostigon: can you ssh into the laptop from another machine and reboot from there? 19:41 cbx333: yeah I do like the after hours idea :) 19:42 bigcalm: i havent tried that yet. 19:42 HazRPG, interesting - in my version, the page numbers are always centered on every page 19:42 lemme do a fresh git clone and try 19:42 hmm 19:42 ooooooh 19:43 bigcalm: i will get my n800 and connect it up, so when it happpens, i will try and restart xorg. 19:43 I think there is a difference 19:43 cbx333: check the link I PM'ed you with 19:43 cbx333: hmm, so are you doing this in odt and saving as latex? 19:44 no no 19:44 I started the book in odt 19:44 bigcalm: ok, i will try that next time it hapens. 19:44 ah 19:44 HazRPG, ahhh yes i see your problem 19:44 what happens if you run the make pdf a second time 19:45 I have noticed that if you only run it once, the ToC isn't created for a start 19:45 it may be that a second run fixes the header too 19:45 cbx333: hmm, I'll give that a try 19:45 or you can run tex for the first and pdf for the second 19:45 faster that way 19:46 ahh 19:46 Myrtti, I am still new to tex 19:46 but that makes sense 19:46 cbx333: ah, see this is where the problem starts I get this error on make pdf "! LaTeX Error: File `fullpage.sty' not found." 19:46 * Myrtti has worked with latex professionally for a year few years back 19:46 and it asks for a filename 19:46 hmm 19:47 to which I just hit enter 19:47 ahhh 19:47 you need to add tyhe style to the latex preable 19:47 mine doesn't have that 19:47 gotta go put hte little one to bed 19:47 ok 19:47 mine compiles without any errors 19:47 what ubuntu you on? 19:47 I'm on 10.10 19:47 need to see what other packages for tex i have installed 19:47 lol @ the microsoft website being run through w3c validator 19:47 cbx333: 10.10 19:47 hmm 19:48 I apt-get texlive 19:48 cbx333: i have some general notes on my thoughts while reading the book so far 19:48 i got texlive with the uk tug membership 19:48 ali1234, can ya pm me.....only cos I'm going afk for a little while to bath the little one 19:48 it seems I have a large number of tex packages 19:49 HazRPG, I'll give ya a list when i get back 19:49 zleap: I thought texlive was free/foss 19:49 it is 19:49 maybe do an packages.ubuntu.com search for that file 19:49 but you get a copy when you join the uk tex user group 19:49 and also - maybe we should take this to a different channel - don't want to go too off topic for people 19:49 there should be a latex channel 19:49 texlive-latex-extra 19:50 yeah 19:50 Myrtti: is that the channel, or is that the file I might be missing? 19:51 http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/all/texlive-latex-extra/filelist 19:51 *grumble* 19:52 * mgdm launches whoever patched Maverick's GCC into space 19:52 what's it doing to you? 19:53 actually it's probably openCV that is failing, by using a fragile version detection thing 19:53 Myrtti: thanks :) 19:54 hi MadLeomon 19:55 when I was doing latex stuff I found the file listings for packages a lifesaver 19:55 that, or apt-file 19:55 cbx333: I just built that file and page numbers are centred 19:56 Myrtti: Oh yeah, I remember that 19:57 gives a lot of badbox errors and warnings about obsolete options 19:57 Myrtti: apt-file is great 19:59 * bigcalm skips off to Wolverhampton for Chinese buffet :D 19:59 damnit 503 20:00 anyone know how to get firefox to stop using F5 for refresh? 20:01 shauno: not off the top of my head, F5 is pretty standard for refresh, what's the issue? 20:02 it claims ^R is the shortcut, and I have F5 bound elsewhere 20:03 but ff is capturing it as refresh :/ 20:03 yeh Synth_sam I got a lot of warnings too 20:08 not too sure how to deal with them 20:08 not overly happy with some of the hyphenation either 20:08 microtype is pretty good for that 20:09 allows adjustment of intraword spacing 20:10 cbx333: ah yes... nevermind, ignore my issue - seems it was because I was missing a package 20:10 Myrtti: again thanks :) 20:10 np 20:11 this looks so much nicer 20:11 can you tell me what package so I can add it to the instructions 20:11 texlive-latex-extra 20:11 thanks Myrtti 20:12 might be worth putting on the "Building the Book" section that you need texlive and texlive-latex-extra 20:12 Myrtti, can you tell me the best way to modify the make file to do the tex bit first, and then the pdf generation so it orks first time 20:12 yup 20:12 oh, seems you've already asked that :P 20:12 just about to do that 20:12 cbx333: I ended up doing a script that does it all because I ran latex2html and stuff too 20:13 cbx333: add a dependency on the tex target to the pdf target 20:13 ok 20:15 i don't have a tex target :) 20:15 that's probably the issue 20:15 you know I can't even remember the command to just build the tex now 20:16 === denny- is now known as denny latex 20:17 :-) 20:17 hahaha 20:18 ko 20:18 oooh 20:18 if i run it with latex i get an error 20:18 cannot determine size of graphic 20:19 no bounding box 20:19 darn it 20:19 you have pdf images 20:19 you can ignore some of the errors 20:19 i do - to keep the pdf size down 20:19 and make them scale nicely 20:19 if it finishes the run without breaking with errors 20:19 ahh i see 20:19 anyway to force it to ignore those errors? 20:19 it stops if the errors are fatal 20:20 you can't have pdf images with latex can you? I thought that you could only have eps and ps with latex 20:20 jpg and png are ok in pdf 20:20 shauno: what was it you said I needed to work on for my chiptune? 20:20 Myrtti: yes, pdflatex is more forgiving, but what are the filetypes for latex? 20:21 Synth_sam, well I have them and it seems to work 20:21 ok 20:21 I'd just heard that before 20:21 my bad 20:21 I'd try the microtype package with the pdf 20:21 it will probably reduce the amount of hyphenation at line-ends 20:22 I'd run it myself and let you know, but I'm updating my texlive at the moment 20:22 ahh ok 20:23 pdflatex seems to recompile the tex anyway, is that right Myrtti 20:23 right 20:23 oh wow, c64 has netplay :o 20:23 the latex run is only so that it makes the auxiliary files for the actual pdflatex run 20:23 so that the pdflatex has the files for making the toc and stuff 20:24 if you can ignore the image errors - perhaps by forcing latex to ignore the filetype, the pdflatex will still work 20:24 it's been a while since I've worked with latex though 20:24 only latex i work with is pants 20:25 no, wait 20:25 heheh 20:25 ko 20:26 === Guest97443 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest76458 thanks again all for your help 20:31 really appreciated 20:31 I hope this week I can start banging out some more large sections of text 20:31 compiled with microtype 20:31 will upload now 20:31 just as long you don't upload the compiled latex on the vcs :-D 20:32 * Myrtti facepalmed several times at work for a clueless workmate doing it over and over and over again 20:33 and when I complained, she uploaded the zip files containing the pdf 20:33 haha 20:33 http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~pcxse1/gitt.pdf 20:33 yeh that's why i don't do anything like that 20:33 Synth_sam, looks good 20:34 cbx333: no hyphenation in the first 20 pages at least 20:34 ok 20:35 that's cool 20:35 Synth_sam, see my pm 20:35 k 20:36 I just added /usepackage[final] to the preamble 20:36 what changes did that introduce 20:37 the lack of hyphenation? 20:37 HazRPG, did the headers and page numbers disappear after your extra installation? 20:38 brb 20:38 cbx333: it allows pdflatex to change the spaces betweeen letters in words with more control, so in general, it won't need to hyphenate 20:38 right, I'm off, ttyl 20:39 good lord, have they not taken that 'file sharing' thread out back and shot it yet? 20:39 cbx333: yes, it did :) 20:40 cbx333: I must say, I do like the book - keep meaning to learn how to use git properly 20:40 I've only ever used it for cloning out stuff with TortoiseGit 20:41 but I do have projects in mind, and would like them hosted on such sites for others to help pitch in :) 20:41 shauno: ? 20:44 there's a thread on the mailing list that needs to be put out of it's misery :) 20:47 shauno: ah 21:01 * HazRPG goes to look 21:01 shauno: isn't there another way to share files on linux then using samba? 21:03 * HazRPG recalls something about ssh 21:03 HazRPG: sshfs ? 21:09 also, hi ^_^ 21:09 === zatan_ is now known as zatan HazRPG, yeh, i mean that's the whole reason for writing it - I want to show it being used in a practical environment - I find a lot of the time, I'll read a technical book and forget how to do pretty much everything I read 21:14 HazRPG: nfs :) 21:16 fwiw, though it may not surprise anyone, windows 7 is utterly useless as a file server :> 21:17 cbx333: it is a great idea :) 21:17 daftykins: that's the one 21:17 daubers: nfs? 21:17 though i don't really agree with SSHFS, depending upon what someone's trying to achieve 21:17 For sharin files in Linux 21:18 daftykins: doesn't surprise me tbh 21:18 it might be my hardware, but when saturating gigabit (as in actually 120MB/sec+) it still makes the 'server' service go a bit wobbly sometimes 21:18 daftykins: I'm surprised you can get as high as 120MB/s on Gigabit, highest I've seen is 117 21:21 I don't tend to think of sshfs as being a permenant fixture 21:21 daubers: yeah, SSD -> gigabit LAN -> 3ware RAID 5 21:22 and back again 21:22 easy peasy 21:23 daftykins: I've gone 16 disk raid6 -> 16 disk raid6 and get 117 ish max 21:23 might just be the Windows numbers i see then 21:24 it's not consistent 21:24 heh 21:24 fair enough 21:24 :D 21:24 it goes 110-125 21:24 That'll be Windows doing it's standard amount of lying then :) 21:24 lets have a go right now 21:24 fo sho ^_^ 21:24 122, 137, 120. 112, 119... 21:25 Theoretical peak is 125MB/s, so unless you're running with no overhead, I somehow doubt thats possible :) 21:25 yeah you're about right then for an average 21:25 i see your point but it's a little nitpicky ;) 21:25 daftykins: Sorry, thats my job though :p 21:26 heh 21:26 indeed 21:26 i've not really pushed the guy's 12TB RAID6 one 21:26 i was only just around there for the first time yesterday, in weeks 21:26 I spent that a few months trying to get from an average of 117 to 119, and just about achieved it by cheating a little, so would have been damn impressed if you could best it 21:26 as the IT teaching i'm doing to help out is thieving my time 21:26 I've got 8 of the new intel SSDs turning up soon 21:28 Someone wants to do 2k format video editing on shared storage 21:28 So he can use ~128 spinny disks, or 8 2.5" SSDs :) 21:29 cor 21:29 actually the media department at my college want something soon 21:29 === Guest76458 is now known as LjL-Temp === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest20141 i think they want to try and do some shared editing 21:31 anywho, mates over, bbl 21:31 === minimec is now known as cocos now this is starting to get confusing.  trying to figure out how to remove the 'launchpad' icon from 10.7's dock.  ubuntu's dominating the google results :) 21:36 daftykins: Get them to give me a ring if they get stuck :) 21:37 shauno: have you tried clicking the icon with "ctrl-alt-cmd" pressed? (whatever that means) 21:46 shauno: or this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1104263 21:47 * brobostigon Haz chocolate buttons, :) 21:48 classic mac, 3 keys held and a mouse button 21:48 brobostigon: Oooh 21:48 ali1234: yeah, it just keeps coming back on it's own :( 21:48 think that one's going on radar, 'tis a bit pants 21:50 it was more the namespace collision that I found interesting tho 21:50 * brobostigon noms and make agreeable noises. 21:51 arab 21:52 wut. 21:55 weird. 21:55 * HazRPG grumbles 22:10 either this document is too old and doesn't work with the most current version, or I'm doing something terribly wrong :/ 22:10 D0y should change the volume with y = number from 0-9, but its not working :S 22:11 brobostigon: oh hi :) 22:12 ah seems I was using it wrong 22:12 HazRPG: evening, :) 22:13 ...but its setting the volume for ALL channels 22:13 * HazRPG grumbles more 22:13 brobostigon: :) 22:13 must be a way to make something sound lower 22:14 frequency lower? 22:15 yeah I'm messing with sustain/release to see if that does it 22:15 ah, 22:15 ooo, yeah :D 22:15 BB works better than FF :D 22:15 BB ? 22:15 hex codes 22:17 ah. 22:17 Sustain/Release: BB 22:18 I had it set to FF originally 22:18 although the problem now is that although its lower, the tone fades away quicker 22:18 maybe BF might be better 22:18 ok. 22:18 brobostigon: messing with GoatTracker 22:19 HazRPG: i admit to be somewhat clueless. 22:19 brobostigon: GoatTracker is in the repo :) 22:19 its an old c64 tracker 22:19 to make songs :) 22:19 in old-school form :) 22:19 ok. 22:19 * HazRPG likes chiptunes 22:20 brobostigon: if you wanna try it out, I can send you the tutorial/manual type thing I managed to find (after several hours of digging) 22:21 brobostigon: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64 is what I have so far 22:22 HazRPG: maybe another day, iam quite tired. 22:22 I've put the tutorial in that directory for you, so you can nab it from there :) 22:23 HazRPG: could you remind me earlier inanother dayplease. my brain is scrambld. 22:23 thank you. 22:23 yeah no problem :) 22:23 thank you, :) 22:24 * HazRPG gives out free hugs 22:24 * brobostigon hugs HazRPG 22:24 hurray! 22:25 also put the sample songs I've managed to find when digging through the intersurf-highway, so that you can load them up and see how they did things too :) - but I'll remind you another night 22:25 goattracker comes with examples in /usr/share/doc/goattracker/examples 22:26 ali1234: wow, I really need to learn to look in there more often 22:28 still not 100% keyed up on this whole thing yet 22:28 but I haven't touched windows in the last 2 months now :) 22:29 * HazRPG feels proud 22:29 managed to avoid it for a year before, but the minute I was back in for whatever reason at the time... I was stuck in there again (for some god forsaken reason) 22:29 although the difference between now and the last few times, I'm actually dedicated to learning the ins and outs of my system 22:30 I do plan to start coding for multi-platform too (or at least learn how to), etc 22:31 === Guest20141 is now known as LjL-Temp part of my new years resolution - better myself in the linux environment 22:31 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest36759 ali1234: thanks for the heads up 22:34 hi 22:37 just commented on a website for youg people that want to volunteer, if anyone can add to my comments feel free at http://www.vteamdevontorbay.org/v-is-coming-to-an-end/#comment-15 22:37 zleap: hi :) 22:37 hi 22:37 wow, was there seriously no books published about the trackers in the 80's 22:46 * HazRPG might be looking for the wrong thing 22:46 trackers? 22:46 audio trackers 22:46 for c64, etc 22:47 hmm 22:47 speccy user here :) 22:47 anyone up for single channel sound beep beep 22:47 zleap: it'll have had a tracker made for it at one point 22:47 yeah 22:48 Model B here - 76489 yeh! 22:48 i did have a sound sampler once 22:48 see I had a MZ-721 22:48 ... sadly no one ever remembers those 22:48 and coded hey jude from a book then had to de bug the program from the book sio it played hey jude at ther right speed 22:48 hehe 22:49 coding from books was fun 22:49 yeah played it too fast 22:49 it was also the first 2 lines of the song, 22:49 which given hey jude is actually quite long 22:50 daubers: the funny part is IT support won't have anything to do with the departments that use Macs, so this technician guy is gonna do some of their IT side stuff, but the thing is he doesn't really work with computers, he only does the techniciany side of things behind media 23:05 he's planning on buying a mac mini as a directory services sorta server right now as he was telling me something about Apple stopping selling XServes or something 0o 23:05 which is just a mistake imo 23:06 heh 23:09 i've been tempted to get an ION 2 nettop for my third LCD again... hang it on the back maybe as a second system to permanently run Ubuntu 23:12 this is hilarious to me, from the Apple website 23:17 regarding OS X Server on a mac mini 23:17 "After selecting Mac mini with Snow Leopard Server, you can add up to 8GB of memory, external storage for RAID 5 data protection, Apple Remote Desktop software, an external SuperDrive, and other options." 23:18 basically saying, after buying you can plug all this stuff into it externally, to make it act like a REAL server >_< 23:18 yes, it clearly makes more sense to buy a dell server with windows or rhel and then spend 6 months and god knows how much money getting certified to use it 23:23 windows 23:24 evening all 23:25 right I think that's me out for the night - a large amount of changes to GITT tonight :) 23:26 not done any proofing on it yet :) 23:26 ali1234: err... actually my point is that it'd be better to get the Mac Pro server so components can be easily removed if found faulty. 23:26 i bet if the mac mini goes down, you're somewhat screwed 23:27 well yeah 23:27 ali1234: but of course you missed that, given you assumed my perspective :) 23:27 same is true whether you have to send for a new video card, or a whole new machine 23:27 no because those things can be sourced locally in an emergency 23:27 whereas somewhere here, with no Apple store, is a tad out of reach 23:28 really? they sell mac pro motherboards in your local PC shops? 23:29 ok, on a saturday night i really can't be bothered with your nitpicking attitude 23:29 i dunno why i said video card before... server doesn't need video card 23:29 === Guest36759 is now known as LjL-Temp well, ok then, don't nitpick others if you don't like it 23:32 === LjL-Temp is now known as Guest51826 you're just covering up the fact that you assumed incorrectly to begin with 23:33 and btw, original point still stands - if this was really mission critical stuff, it wouldn't be managed by somebody with no IT experience 23:33 in which case it actually would make sense to do what i said instead of using macs 23:34 but that was sarcasm... 23:34 but since it's clearly not even been considered, it's clearly not important to have things like SLA 23:34 no, public sector in education, the IT department has free reign to sit on their hands 23:35 but anyway, my original moan was that the guy considered a mac mini to run two departments off :D i don't think that's a good idea 23:36 funny, you went quiet. 23:43 in that guy's situation (ie i don't know how to diagnose PC hardware problems) i would do exactly the same thing 23:43 well, he has got some contact and advice from the IT support department that won't touch the macs 23:44 so hopefully they'll steer him sensibly 23:44 but what about if you *do* know, you'd still say it's fine to have a tiny little SFF system running a 60+ client network? 23:44 if they won't support a mac pro for him, then the logical choice is the mini 23:44 i'm not sure i follow 23:45 they're not going to support either 23:45 right 23:45 so why buy one more susceptible to failure? 23:45 who says the mini will be more susceptible to failure? 23:47 * hamitron likes small devices for servers 23:50 i'm going to assume he knows better than to run the thing sandwiched in between a dvd player and a skybox like most people probably do 23:50 cheaper and when they break, just throw away 23:51 hahaha 23:51 but a mac isn't cheap ;) 23:51 neither would the storage be that they acquire eventually for their video editing 23:51 it raises a good question though 23:51 i certainly don't know what solution i'd go with to cater for say, even one class of maybe 20-30 macs doing video editing 23:52 i'd advise sticking to local editing followed by copying back to a large RAID array really 23:52 but even then it's less than ideal, conceptually 23:52 local ftw 23:53 pointless centralising, just to cause a headache 23:53 indeed 23:53 i was thinking of fragmentation + the wear and tear on a bunch of mechanical disks of a load of students editing directly from it 23:54 the thought makes me wanna cry :/ 23:54 :D 23:54 i was trying to put in my 2p, but the guy works on another site at the other end of the island, i only met him once in the restaurant 23:55 editing from a central server is madness 23:55 having catering students run a restaurant one floor down from your classrooms = win \o/ 23:55 you need specialist hardware for that 23:55 indeed 23:55 he did say something about 40 grand 23:55 do video editing tools work well remotely? 23:56 never had much to do with them 23:56 the video editing system at work is *insane* 23:57 just considering when the application is running on the server 23:57 but we are a TV station 23:57 mgdm: :O which one? 23:57 mgdm: any ideas what said system is like? 23:57 television X? 23:57 hamitron: No. 23:57 staff discount? 23:58 ah, nvm 23:58 ;) 23:58 daftykins: expensive. Fast. :) 23:58 :) 23:58

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