|Dreams|speed is 30% lower at least00:00
|Dreams|i moved home tech cudnt get old modem to work apperently00:00
|Dreams|so fitted this new bag of rubbishnes00:00
nucc1as i understand, you can buy your own cable modem.00:00
|Dreams|i was quite happy wit m old modem and my dd-wrt router00:00
nucc1the new one doesn't have ethernet ports?00:01
|Dreams|also has problems with multiple xbox 360s i have 5 in this house lol00:01
nucc1you can simply turn off the wireless, and route the internet to your own dd-wrt box.00:01
|Dreams|yes but i have 5 laptops in a three storey building00:01
nucc1you have a dd-wrt box, right?00:02
|Dreams|plus 2 s3's 5 xbox 360,s 2 wii's an a ds and two androids00:02
nucc1hook it up to the virgin box with a cable.00:02
nucc1turn off the wireless on the virgin box, enable wireless on the dd-wrt00:02
nucc1and place it on the middle floor.00:02
|Dreams|yeah i thought of this but i am just pissed that they tryin to force ppl to use shit they make00:03
nucc1they don't force.00:03
|Dreams|quite annoyed actually00:03
nucc1they just capitalize on ignorance.00:03
|Dreams|they do to new customers00:03
nucc1as i understand, i could have declined the box if i knew i could use my own cable modem.00:04
|Dreams|there dlink 615 old cable modem was best offer n best combi they had in ages00:04
|Dreams|i told the tech i wanted my old modem00:04
|Dreams|he cudnt get it to work00:04
|Dreams|i told him i had a dd-wrthe didnt even kno what it was lol00:05
nucc1you didn't need to give him any more information than "i want to use my own modem"00:05
nucc1and the mac address of said modem.00:05
|Dreams|rightly or not he had to put new modem/router in n i cant stick it going to phone them tomoz get new modem sent out been a customer 5 years and being spoon fed a shit router is not on00:07
|Dreams|i got 51mbps on my dd00:07
|Dreams|get 33 now00:07
|Dreams|they bringing out an option for it to be cable modem only in new update00:08
|Dreams|cant wait00:08
HazRPGhmm, well I think I've found one mistake already00:13
HazRPGpage 9,  5th line in: “It appears that way.” Said John sullenly.00:14
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shaunoI know it's wrong in theory, but I usually stick full stops inside quotes now00:37
shaunothe alternative just seems like invalid nesting00:38
ali1234my brother does copy editing among other things, apparently it depends on context00:38
shaunowouldn't surprise me, because I'd want a comma in that excerpt.  and .. that way"., said John .. can't possibly be correct00:40
ali1234if the . or , is part of what you are quoting as in this case, it goes inside00:40
ali1234but if you're just using scare quotes around something at the end of the sentence, then it goes outside00:41
ali1234so it nearly always goes inside00:41
ali1234with exclamation mark it is even more obvious00:42
HazRPGoh, I was getting at the fact that it says "sullenly" instead of "suddenly"00:44
ali1234sullenly is fine?00:44
HazRPGah, would seem so00:46
ali1234i think it said should not be capitalized though, and it should be a comma not a full stop00:46
shaunosullen fits, unless there's more context that's relevant00:46
ali1234is this the book about git?00:47
HazRPGali1234: yup00:47
ali1234it's written like a novel?00:47
ali1234with like, characters?00:47
ali1234interesting, i will check it out00:48
HazRPGhttp://www.hazrpg.co.uk/ebook/gitt.pdf if you don't want to check it out from the git and convert it00:48
HazRPGsee, now I think that either sullenly, or suddenly could be used in this context00:49
HazRPGjust depends how he's trying to come accross00:49
ali1234they could, but they would mean totally different things00:49
ali1234is there a place to report bugs?00:50
HazRPGthat's my point00:50
HazRPGhe suggested just making a fork of it00:50
ali1234d and l are pretty far apart :)00:50
ali1234i don't know how to fix these bugs00:50
HazRPGd and l?00:50
ali1234but the page numbers are bouncing around all over the place, what's that about?00:50
shaunoas I understand it, that's how git works.  you fork, make changes, and file a 'pull request' against the original00:50
ali1234i know how to use git :)00:51
ali1234i don't know how to write latex or whatever this is00:51
HazRPGyeah latex00:51
HazRPGlatex is pretty simple - similar to other meta-type stuff00:51
HazRPG\chapter{chapter 1 or whatever}00:52
HazRPG\section{Sub title I think is what this is for}00:52
shaunoreading that, I think sullen is intended00:52
shaunosyn. glum; dude's not happy because their work has been trashed00:53
shaunoit's difficult to suddenly answer something you've been asked00:53
HazRPGbut he's also angered, so he could be trying to say the statement quickly too though... so I guess either could be used really00:53
shaunothat'd be sharp, not sudden :)00:54
ali1234unless... you're william... shatner00:54
HazRPGwell originally I didn't realise sullenly was a word - but well, makes sense if it is a word that this is the word the author intended to use00:55
HazRPGseems that there are latex WYSIWYG editors out there00:56
HazRPGI can understand why he's used latex instead of a document type though00:57
HazRPGsince its in a git repo, its easier to see diff's00:57
HazRPGplus it can be exported in any format (just about) with ease00:57
HazRPGalso, I think the page moving about is intended00:58
shaunoand it was designed for typesetting, rather than secretaries00:58
HazRPGshauno: makes sense00:58
HazRPGali1234: I think the reason the page moves about is because he's planning on publishing it... and the page numbers will look fine in printed form. Left page, page number on far left; right page, page number of the far right.00:59
ali1234sure. now explain page 7 to me :)01:00
HazRPGali1234: oh, and page 501:00
HazRPGdidn't notice those01:01
ali1234it happens on first page of a chapter/week01:01
shaunohaving 5 low, 6 book'd and 7 low just looks .. funky01:01
ali1234probably intentional but... i don't like it... and i don't think i'd like it in print form either01:01
shaunoI'd have to agree.  if I discover chapter 10 is on page 81 in the index, I'm flicking thru the numbers looking for 8101:02
HazRPGali1234: could be how he wants it to be formed?01:02
shaunonot the mysterious gap between 79 and 8301:02
ali1234right, exactly01:02
shaunoagree that it's pretty subjective, but can see why it's jarring01:03
HazRPGdoes seem odd, but at least its consistently odd01:03
HazRPGbecause each chapter has the number on the bottom01:04
HazRPGeasier to those who spit to find a chapter01:04
HazRPGdon't know what's going on with my typing today :/01:05
shauno(paper-only consideration, it's also physically odd to flick thru the center of pages.  corners almost flick themselves)01:05
shaunoprobably something that's easy to toy with once it's done, so not a huge concern.  but since you bring it up :)01:07
ubuntuuk-planet[Alan Pope] Thirty Years On - http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/05/thirty-years-on/01:07
HazRPGI was just looking through the latex code01:08
HazRPGseems there's no mention of pages, so it must be defined like that by default01:08
shaunoit's probably inherited from a template01:08
HazRPGshauno: that does seem apparent01:11
HazRPGthere's a gitt.toc file that seems to mention something about pages01:11
shaunothe {memoir} bit01:11
shaunohttp://www.tex.ac.uk/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/memoir/memman.pdf  is memoir's manual, and also has the same numbering pattern01:12
HazRPGoh, I was thinking more: \chapternumberline01:12
HazRPGas seen here: \contentsline {chapter}{\chapternumberline {}Week 1}{7}{chapter.2}01:12
HazRPGseems only the chapters have \chapternumberline01:13
HazRPGcould have something to do with that01:13
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HazRPGshauno: actually, seems you are right ^^01:17
HazRPGI changed it to article01:18
HazRPGand now the pages are at the bottom, however the document is now... erm... messed up01:18
HazRPGguessing its because the rest of the document use memoir styled formatting, instead of article-based01:18
HazRPGmainly the ToC that seems to be messed up though01:19
HazRPGso doesn't seem like it would be hard to fix01:19
shaunoI *think* if you put \aliaspagestyle{chapter}{simple} in gitt.tex, before \begin{document}01:19
HazRPGwith the included {article} or {memoir} part?01:20
shaunostill with memoir01:20
ali1234see this is why i don't do latex :)01:20
shaunoI'm not quite OCD enough to go download 1.6Gb worth of mactex to find out :)01:21
HazRPGthe book is only 135.2 tar-ed01:21
shaunoyeah, but I don't have TeX installed01:22
HazRPGah, I grabbed the smaller version01:22
HazRPGtexlive-base I think it was01:22
HazRPGsorry just texlive01:23
shaunoon the mac, I have two options.  a pkg with the entire kit & kaboodle, and whatever else the mac-tex-user-group thought they'd throw in there for sentimental value01:23
shaunoor build it myself01:23
HazRPGah, I forget your on a mac01:24
HazRPGmy mistake01:24
HazRPGheh I give up01:25
HazRPG\aliaspagestyle{chapter}{simple} just made it even more messed up01:25
shaunosweet :)01:25
HazRPGnow there's some pages with page numbers at the top xD01:25
shaunothat's what I was aiming for01:25
HazRPGalong with the other ones being at the bottom, and some at the left and right01:26
HazRPGso it looks really barmey now01:26
shaunotwo numbers on the same page?01:26
HazRPGnope, same as it was before - except the first page has it at the top (the blank page)01:27
HazRPGthe page is also bigger01:27
shaunohm.  it shouldn't get bigger.  a5 is specified elsewhere01:27
HazRPGfirst page is bigger and has the number at the top01:27
HazRPGrest are still as-is01:27
HazRPGseems the first page is a401:28
shaunothat is odd.  the front page isn't a {chapter}, so the alias shouldn't touch it01:28
HazRPGalso errors out on the make pdf01:28
HazRPGso could be why01:28
shaunooh well01:29
shaunoso the lesson is that it is a global thing that just needs to be tweaked in one place01:29
shaunoand that 3 minutes in the docs isn't enough to figure out where that one place is :)01:29
HazRPGyes :)01:30
shaunobut that's the general idea.  {memoir} specifies a few different page styles01:30
shaunoand then chapter, frontmatter, titlepage, etc are pointers to those styles01:30
* HazRPG gives up... moves on01:30
ali1234i'm surprised it took these guys 3 weeks to get to "git log"01:31
HazRPGmight add in the to-do (different page style?)01:31
HazRPGali1234: ?01:31
shaunonot sure I'd even go that far.  just find a polite way to ask if that's what he's actually going for, or if he's working on the content and hasn't started fighting with layouts :)01:32
HazRPGthe dude working on it, is barely ever on here (as far as I can tell at least)01:32
shaunothere's a very real chance that 'writing the book' is a priority over 'playing with the meta'01:33
HazRPGvery true01:33
HazRPGali1234: oh, heh I thought you meant the author did... yeah, in the boot it does seem odd, but well they've never used it before (I don't think) as far as the book's characters are concerned - I think :S01:34
HazRPGwasn't really focusing properly when I was reading it earlier01:35
shaunoalmost dragged the amiga out today, and then remembered I'm still using it's monitor :(01:35
HazRPGI almost dragged out my Sharp01:35
ali1234ok, finished skimming01:35
ali1234where do i send my list of problems?01:35
HazRPGbut then realised I don't own any of the old coax cables to put it to the TV01:35
shaunoI'd imagine there's stuff like that that's somewhat dramatised to fit the book01:36
ali1234i see github has an issue tracker, will use that01:36
HazRPGali1234: like I said, when I asked him - he said fork out the git and just commit it back01:36
hamitronmy ZX is still setup ;)01:36
shauno"so they sat down, read the docs, and figured it out.  The End." would make a pretty weak chapter 201:36
HazRPGshauno: haha true01:36
HazRPGali1234: ooo, yeah I just noticed that too01:37
shaunomy miggy is sort of setup.  except I stole the monitor because my laptop's screen borked01:37
HazRPGali1234: :)01:37
HazRPGshauno: yeah I remember you mentioned something about that when I was non-stop on minecraft01:37
HazRPGI go through phases01:38
shauno"this week, I 'ave been mostly eating ..."01:38
shaunoI've a funny feeling I left the cardreader for the miggy at work too, which makes moving stuff onto it a little awkward01:39
ali1234how do you put a card reader on amiga?01:40
shaunopcmcia to compact flash adaptor01:40
shaunonifty because my camera uses CF too, so I've a few spare cards, and a usb reader for the laptop01:41
shaunouse that with easyadf to turn interwebs into floppies01:42
shaunohttp://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=440  is the most sensible €16 I've spent on the thing01:44
HazRPGwait, so your old amiga supports flash cards (sort of)?01:44
HazRPGpretty impressed01:44
HazRPGmy sharp has an expansion port - but I think it was mainly designed for a receipt printer01:45
HazRPGI doubt anyone's used it for anything else :(01:45
HazRPGstill has a tape drive though01:45
shaunoCF is surprisingly easy to support on odd devices.  they're ide-compatible, so anything that's figured out how to use cheap harddrives, can figure out CF01:45
ali1234i have a IDE-CF adapter, don't really think of CF as memory cards any more though01:45
ali1234they're almost as legacy as the amiga itself01:45
shaunoI tried a couple of ide-cf adaptors, and never found one it liked01:46
ali1234so you can boot a disk image from CF on PCMCIA?01:46
HazRPGI wish all computer still came with a tape drive :/01:46
shaunoI can't boot from it from pcmcia, no01:46
HazRPGor at least a VHS tape drive01:47
shaunothere's a driver for it on the easyadf disk, so it's furniture until workbench is loaded01:47
HazRPGbecause video was stored on those in raw format, I can image that some compressed data on those would mean it could store a fair few gigabytes on them01:47
ali1234i think it's about 1GB per tape01:48
ali1234i could tell you exactly... VHS has about 3mhz bandwidth01:48
ali1234yes really01:48
ali1234by comparison, teletext needs 6mhz, but only uses about 16 out of 625 lines01:49
HazRPGhmm, so pretty slow then huh01:50
ali1234by another comparison, a mini DV tape holds about 6GB iirc01:50
shaunoI remember reading about that when I was reading about the TIA chip in the amiga 260001:50
shaunoI always had this mental picture that the teletext lines were 'just off the top' of the screen01:50
ali1234i never heard of such things01:50
ali1234what's an amiga 2600?01:51
HazRPGI'll tell ya what, I use to remember how long it took to load up stuff on my Sharp from tape, it would take the time to make a cup of tea (literally) and have a sandwich before it would load up01:51
ali1234they *are* literally just off the top of the screen01:51
ali1234if you mess with vhold you can see them01:51
shaunoturns out it's sent in the time it takes the beam to reset from bottom-right to top-left01:51
ali1234same thing01:51
shaunowell I mean, it's not in lines that would otherwise be used for picture01:52
shauno(could, sure, would, no)01:52
HazRPGhas a vision of teletext looking funny on HD displays01:52
ali1234digital TV being not analogue, sends nothing in the VBL, just whole frames01:52
ali1234so teletext on DVB get's it's own packets in the mpeg stream01:53
ali1234there's a whole standard for it01:53
ali1234but ofcom banned it in favour of that red button rubbish01:53
shaunoI'd just never thought about the beam actually taking time to get back, until I read dev notes for the atari.  which has almost no video buffering at all, so that time is the time you get to actually compute anything other than the picture itself01:53
shaunosuddenly the travel time becomes significant01:53
ali1234oh, you meant atari 260001:54
ali1234that makes sense01:54
shaunosorta.  both, really.  the 2600 is where I realised there's actually a gap there that teletext is exploiting.  rather than stealing lines that'd otherwise be useful01:54
shaunoby time I was old enough to do anything remotely useful with computers, we already had blitters.  so it was an eye-opener to think of the screen's timing as being relevant at all01:58
ali1234hmm... forking on github was painless enough02:00
HazRPGthink there's a market for selling ubuntu computers?02:00
shaunoI think it's "almost but not quite"02:01
shaunoclose enough that people keep trying.  not close enough for them to stick with it02:01
ali1234how is pull request formed?02:01
gordyes there is a market, just not a very big one, yo uwon't get rich02:01
HazRPGme and a few mates are just getting sick of crappy jobs02:02
shaunoI wouldn't be surprised if linuxemporium are still doing it.  they were trying hardware before it was cool02:02
ali1234PC market is shrinking IMO02:04
HazRPGone's a network admin, and he's currently in the process of "maybe made redundant" ... "maybe not" ... stage, because of a school/college merge so that its just one college with several campuses ... and another who's been working in booze shops for years (but is skilled in maths, programming, hardware) ... and me, currently doing freelance but with barely any work most of the time because cumbria is pants02:04
shaunosame problem as everyone else in the beige-box market tho.  you can't beat dell for price.  so you've gotta figure out where you can beat them.  and whether people will pay for it02:04
ali1234don't get into the hardware biz :)02:05
ali1234make the next facebook or something instead, more chance of success02:05
hamitronreselling dell ftw ;)02:05
hamitrononly nobody is spending money atm :/02:05
ali1234or make mobile apps02:06
ali1234especially tablety, AR, social stuff02:06
shaunothat's gotta saturate at some point.  there's only so many fart soundboards one iphone can hold02:06
hamitrondo you think there will come a time when C/C++ is wanted again?02:06
ali1234what do you mean "again"?02:07
gordyeah not many people make much money on iphone these days02:07
ali1234C/C++ isn;t going anywhere02:07
shaunoit still is.  it's just not a buzzword02:07
hamitronI mean, money is crap02:07
hamitronin a lot of comp stuff now02:07
ali1234of course02:07
shaunoI think the "right way" is to do crossplatform is to stick the business end in C, and wrap it in whatever moonspeak each target environment wants02:08
shauno(minus some spare words.  it's 2am ..)02:08
hamitroneveryone I know just says "java"02:08
HazRPGheh, yeah I keep hearing java a lot recently too :/02:09
hamitronalthough, I just don't care atm02:09
shaunodisclaimer, I really don't like java02:09
shaunobut I don't think that's the "right way" anymore02:09
ali1234java ._.02:09
HazRPGI mean my second year of my HND we were forced to take Java instead of Advanced C++ as a module (I mean be paraphrasing, but it was because some were thicker than others in the class to take AdvC++)02:10
shaunoyou're not going to look at the cash cow that is the iSheep one day, and decide to start sticking that java on iphones02:10
hamitronI personally think computers will die in their current form02:11
ali1234you should not worry about what language you are using, i mean you should be able to use them all. the most important thing is to hire someone who can sell your product02:11
ali1234because nobody actually cares about quality02:11
hamitrontough times :)02:12
* HazRPG feels sad that the whole computing era seems to be a dying breed02:13
hamitronI don't think coding will die02:13
HazRPGI think the problem is, everyone knows how to at least use one now02:13
ali1234computers aren't going to go away02:13
HazRPGoh I don't doubt that for a second02:13
shaunoI don't look it as an era dying02:13
ali1234they will just go back to being a niche market like they were before about 200002:13
hamitronali1234: you don't think they will get smaller, cheaper and just "picked off the shelf" more?02:13
ali1234those aren't computers02:14
hamitronnot as we know them, no02:14
ali1234those are appliances02:14
hamitronso is a computer?02:14
shaunothink when cars were new, and bought by the eccentrics that thought it was a novel horse replacement02:14
ali1234people who bought into the hype around windows XP and the internet in 2000 will upgrade to an appliance02:14
shaunowe're moving from that, to every man and his dog has a car.02:14
ali1234everyone who actually cares (~1% of the people who actually own PCs today) will continue buying real computers02:15
ali1234this will be what kills microsoft btw02:15
ali1234they're already dying, they just haven't realised it yet02:15
hamitronunless they make the xbox platform the platform of choice02:15
HazRPGhamitron: I highly doubt it02:15
hamitronI thought sony were ahead of the game, but then they removed the otheros option02:16
HazRPGhamitron: don't remind me :(02:16
ali1234that *is* ahead of the game02:16
shaunomeh. big picture, no-one cared about the otheros thing02:16
* hamitron did02:16
ali1234this is where things are going: locked down appliances that can only run approved software02:16
ali1234this is unavoidable02:16
hamitronoh yeh ali123402:16
HazRPGshauno: I bought mine under the sole reason that it could have linux02:17
ali1234it's not even particularly bad, i mean you don't have to buy one02:17
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hamitronbut I felt the otheros option was there to attract users to use an appliance as their comp02:17
shaunoI can't think of a practical scale to explain what sort of minority that puts you in02:17
shaunoone-legged trousers may be a bigger % of the market02:17
hamitronI was going to buy a ps3 the week they removed it02:17
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HazRPGshauno: I mean I already owned an x360, wii, ds, psp... and since most games for x360 are coming out on ps3 too - my only real reason for a ps3 was for RPG's and Linux02:18
ali1234thing is, there's no reason you can't buy an appliance and a real computer02:18
hamitronbut now I decided not to bother, and upgraded my pc for gaming02:18
ali1234and there never will be, because engineers need real computers to make appliances02:18
hamitronbut even "real" computers won't be made of seperate bits02:19
shaunoI think they will02:19
ali1234but that's pretty much it. the general public does not need powerful tools like windows XP (lol) to go on facebook. an iphone is plenty, no matter how locked down.02:19
HazRPGhamitron: I highly doubt that02:19
shaunoI think PC is going to recede back into what was essentially an enthusiast market02:19
ali1234shauno: that's what i said just now :)02:19
shaunomaking 'bits' pretty much defacto02:19
hamitronso prices will rise again02:19
ali1234but not much because things like screens and GPU and CPU are the same02:20
shaunothat was what I was trying to get at with my awful car analogy.  they've gone from being eccentric toys, to transport for the masses02:20
ali1234and RAM and flash memory02:20
shaunobut you're still going to have petrolheads.  and a market to serve them02:20
hamitronI just feel something similar to the Eee boxes will replace most "work" appliances02:21
HazRPGmakes me feel I shouldn't have bothered pursuing a career in IT02:21
HazRPGso far it hasn't done me much good02:21
hamitronimo biggest problem with working in IT sector: loads of idiots have gone into it02:22
hamitronget a 6 week qualification and setup a comp chop02:22
HazRPGhamitron: is that the one that was recently in confs. about having everything served from one computer to share several screens/keyboards/mice?02:22
shaunoIT bugs me at the moment because it's a complete buzzword frenzy now02:22
shaunoit's basically cloud or go home02:22
ali1234if i hear "ecosystem" one more time i might tear my own ears off02:23
shaunothere is very little specialization anymore02:23
hamitronHazRPG: I am not sure the exact route it will take, depends on demand02:23
ali1234everyone wants to do everything02:23
HazRPGshauno: in all fairness it always was after the 80's boom of computers, its been one buzzword after the next (if the documentary Micro Men is anything to go by)02:23
ali1234this is what ecosystem means02:23
HazRPGali1234: agreed02:24
ali1234everyone has to have an app store, a music store, a web mail, and a social network02:24
HazRPGweb 2.0 right ? *waves arms in a sarcastic manner*02:24
ali1234but that is a market where it only works when there's only 1 such provider otherwise it sucks for everyone02:24
hamitron1 will probably win02:25
hamitronor at least some will die02:25
ali1234nobody corporate is going to displace facebook for social, or apple for music02:25
shaunothing is tho, it's still a helluva wave if you can figure out how to ride it02:26
HazRPGali1234: I don't know a single person that uses apple for music :S02:26
ali1234so anyone with a mission that says "we want to beat facebook and apple and google at their own games" is just deluding themselves02:26
shaunoHazRPG: yes you do :p02:26
ali1234i mean just taking on any one of them is bad enough02:26
HazRPGshauno: guessing you do then :P02:26
ali1234to take them all on at once is a war on multiple fronts02:26
shaunoyup.  unashamed fanboi02:26
ali1234yes Nokia, i am looking at you are your Ovi "ecosystem"02:27
HazRPGI dislike the spelling boi - but yeah02:27
ali1234stick to making good phones!02:27
shaunothey're a fantastic example of the change not being the end tho02:27
hamitronyeh :)02:27
shaunoyou can lament that computers are turning into consumer appliances.  apple just claimed their iOS devices are the majority of their income now02:27
ali1234i don't have a problem with it02:28
hamitronNokia's problem was symbian and lack of movement, and unclear direction02:28
HazRPGam I the only one that still bye's CD's?02:28
ali1234computing got along just fine without the masses, it will continue to do so02:28
ali1234yeah probably02:28
shaunoHazRPG: I've bought one CD since .. 200102:28
* HazRPG starting to annoy self with bad spelling mistakes02:28
hamitronI buy all my music on CD02:28
hamitronI expect physical copies02:29
HazRPGhamitron: I liked the symbian :/02:29
hamitronI do02:29
shaunoI spent everything I had on physical media in my teenage years02:29
shaunoI've moved country three times since then, and have absolutely no idea where any of it is02:29
hamitronI refuse to spend money on something that is just data normally02:29
HazRPGI would still use my nokia's if it wasn't for the fact that the only way to update the software was to plug it into the computer and hope one exists that fixes the major bug that seems to only affect me02:29
shaunothere's numbered vinyl in there and all.  I just literally have no idea where it is.02:30
HazRPGshauno: ouch02:30
hamitrondo you guys buy music online?02:30
shaunoI do02:30
HazRPGshauno: sounds like me, I have many books that /would/ be worth something (first prints) ... but can't find a single one of them :(02:31
ali1234does having a free spotify count?02:31
hamitronit scares me, think I am a techy technophobe02:31
shaunoHazRPG: I'm pretty sure I know what country my pre-1998 CDs are in.  not 100% sure, but a good idea02:31
HazRPGI have 2 houses alone (about a mile apart) to look through, then 3 flats & 2 villas in egypt and 1 flat in saudi after that with stuff all spread between them all :/02:31
hamitronyou need to work? ;)02:32
shaunomy heart bleeds purple expletives :p02:32
shaunoI tend to lose things because when I move, I cross timezones.  and when I do, I do it in one suitcase02:32
HazRPGhamitron: I donate money to Jamendo, the artists I like, if that counts?02:32
hamitrondonating is different02:33
shaunothis is why my car's in michigan :(02:33
HazRPGshauno: I know the feeling, I have issues 1-100 of sonic the comic in saudi in a tin box02:34
ali1234i have an ovi comes with music account too, also free02:34
ali1234but it sucks02:34
hamitronjumping through the hoops apple put up, and giving them money just seems like it is along the path to renting music to me02:34
shaunoHazRPG: a tin box would be fantastic02:34
shaunoapple's hoops are largely a myth02:34
HazRPGshauno: whenever I've moved, my parents said "send your stuff by cargo"02:34
hamitronrenting the use of their device you bought too02:34
hamitronshauno: like the iPad only including 2 upgrades?02:35
shaunothe music's drm free. aac is standardized.02:35
shaunoif I want to play my itunes library on linux, there is absolutely nothing stopping me02:35
ali1234hamitron: there isn't much use complaining about it. people will find out for themselves why it is a bad idea02:35
HazRPGyou know, for every time I read "Terms of use may vary" I got a penny, I'd be a rich man02:35
ali1234it will take about 10 years, just like it did with microsoft02:35
hamitronali1234: sorry, I myself am like a broken record :D02:36
shaunohamitron: I expect everyone else's hardware is going to find itself EOL'd after a number of OS upgrades too02:36
shaunothey just don't tell you up front, so they're the good guys02:36
shaunoare there android phones that won't run honeycomb?02:36
hamitronI don't think the android market is good either ;/02:37
hamitronI personally think it is moving too fast02:37
shaunothe difference with the "two upgrades" thing is that you've been told how far into the future you will be supported for02:37
hamitronas is ubuntu02:37
shaunoinstead of finding out that your phone isn't shiny enough for the new OS02:37
HazRPGhamitron: don't worry, I can be like a broken record too sometimes (and because I do it myself, I find it hard to spot it in other people)02:37
HazRPGI think android is missing a trick somewhere...02:37
shaunoit's missing clout02:38
hamitronand consistency02:38
HazRPGI mean just think, each update means waves & waves of update rollouts02:38
shaunothe carriers get to wield the power.  and there's not a single telco out there that can be trusted with it02:38
hamitrona platform needs to stick around for a while, to become popular and accepted02:38
HazRPGsure hardware may vary, but wouldn't it be better to have it set in stone kernel-side?02:38
HazRPGI mean I doubt it'd get too big surely?02:39
hamitrongood to standardise hardware imo02:39
shaunoI think the whole mess is too young for standardize02:39
HazRPGhamitron: most of the android phones pretty much are02:39
hamitronless regular upgrades02:39
hamitronshauno: maybe everyone jumped on it before it was ready :)02:40
shaunoit's going to grow out of it's clothes every single year.  this is how children work.02:40
hamitronI do agree with you02:40
shaunoyou try to slow it in it's infant stages, and it's going to be stunted for life02:40
hamitronyeh :/02:40
HazRPGI still think android is missing a trick :/02:41
hamitronimo, carriers need to maybe make 1 version a standard stable industry standard, then switch version every few years02:41
hamitronbut have the development version free to move forward02:41
shaunoI think they should stick with rolling excitement for now, and let people buy in as often or as infrequently as they like02:41
hamitronI probably will02:42
hamitronincreases profits02:42
HazRPGincreases wide-spread of linux \o/02:42
hamitronI can see it giving linux a bad name02:42
shaunothis is the other side of appliances02:42
HazRPGI just wish the penguin would be shown at least somewhere in its marketing02:42
shaunopeople aren't used to sticking a new OS on their phone every few years02:42
shaunoyou get what you bought, and you'll get something newer, next time you buy it02:43
shaunonormal people think about upgrading their phone's OS, about as often as you think about giving your dishwasher a firmware upgrade02:43
HazRPGyeah, but from my observation the popularity of android seems to be partly based on the fact that people know updates are coming in thick & fast02:44
speedxco1eanyone awake? =)02:44
shaunospeedxco1e: sleepranting is popular here :)02:44
hamitronranting? us? ;)02:44
HazRPGspeedxco1e: at least 4 people are yes :)02:44
HazRPGshauno: agreed :)02:45
HazRPGI like our past-midnight rants :)02:45
speedxco1eI'm trying yo learn how to copy files by modification date. I got one folder with 100s of folders created over years. I just need this year.02:45
HazRPGand discussions02:45
HazRPGand "haz is thick, but insists on  being right" talks :)02:46
speedxco1eI'm looking into piping find or using rsync.02:46
speedxco1ethat is the best?02:46
hamitronI would use piping02:46
shaunoI'd just use find02:47
speedxco1eif find alone enough?02:48
shaunofind /path -mtime 52w -type f(ile) -exec do something with "{}" ";"02:48
shauno(I don't know if 1y works for years, but 52w works for weeks02:48
shaunoor s/m/d for sec/mins/days02:48
shaunowikipedia tells me today is the 64th day of the year.  so I'd find -mtime 64d to return files modified this year02:49
shauno(it'd probably catch 21 hours worth of files modified on 31st dec 2010, but I can live with that :)02:50
speedxco1eshauno: thanks, I do some exprimentation02:51
* speedxco1e is a piping noob, but like to learn more.02:51
HazRPGspeedxco1e: heh I just imagined that your previous comment was ran through a mature filter just then - it amused me somewhat02:52
shaunousually if you're looking for files that match a stat-able pattern, find is awesomely powerful :)02:52
speedxco1emastering piping seem to be an important part of mastering linux and unix systems02:54
shaunothe 'unix way' is to have one tool for one job.  if the job's an odd one, you need to use multiple tools02:55
shaunobut if it's a job that has 'one tool' for it, don't make your life difficult :)02:55
HazRPGI like how linux has a tool for everything, but very little "I do everything!" tools - means less clutter, and less chance of failure and bugs :)02:56
shaunoI think it just makes a lot of things a lot more transparent02:57
HazRPGjust a case of mastering them02:57
HazRPGI guess02:57
HazRPGshauno: let me know what you think of this, been toying with speed tables http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c6402:58
HazRPGI've put it in ogg/mp3/sid to make things easier02:58
shaunoyou can come up with some pretty whacky one-liners, but the command is almost a sentence02:58
ali1234sid files open in totem by default here02:59
ali1234probably because i have resid installed02:59
shaunothis is almost funny.  I seem to have broken safari's handling of mp3s02:59
HazRPGali1234: brobostigon said he could on his totem too (and mine), so I don't think resid is necessary02:59
HazRPGshauno is on mac as far as I'm aware though03:00
shaunoif I click the mp3 link, I get a quicktime container that refuses to play.  if I click the ogg link, I get a quicktime container that *does* play03:00
HazRPGhmm, that might be my fault03:00
shaunonah, it's not the first place I've noticed it03:00
HazRPGI just used audacity to make it03:01
shaunoI've a feeling I may have been a bit too violent persuading quicktime it could play some things03:01
HazRPGah ok, *phew*03:01
shaunoit sounds like it changes tempo several times at the beginning?03:01
HazRPGI know the intro sounds wacky, my friend pointed it out to me earlier this evening03:01
shaunoaround the 3 second mark, it can't seem to decide which way it's going03:02
shaunodid you settle on a tracker yet?03:02
HazRPGyeah GoatTracker03:02
HazRPGI couldn't get MilkyTracker to do anything :/03:03
ali1234goattracker won't work unless you're running pulseaudio :(03:03
ali1234i probably just need to recompile it03:03
HazRPGali1234: guessing your not03:03
shaunonever was fond of linux having 3 and a half audio subsystems03:03
ali1234yeah wine audio doesn't work properly with pulse, works fine with alsa03:03
HazRPGwine works on my side03:04
HazRPGand I haven't changed anything03:04
ali1234it works for a few hours then just stops03:04
HazRPG10.10, with wine beta (1.2.2?)03:04
HazRPGali1234: I had OpenMPT looping a song for about an hr without problems03:05
HazRPGI get distracted, and forget what's playing half the time03:05
ali1234it's very hardware dependent too03:05
HazRPGI guess03:05
ali1234get different results when using different number of cores to run wine for example03:05
HazRPGpulseaudio is coming along nicely though, seems more are developing for it03:05
ali1234thing is, even the PA devs recommend you develop to the alsa safe subset03:06
shaunoHazRPG: did you try sunvox along your travels?03:06
HazRPGali1234: what sort of getup/setup you got running at your end of the wires?03:06
HazRPGshauno: I saw that one... didn't try it though03:06
ali1234you mean, what computer do i have?03:06
HazRPGali1234: yes :)03:06
HazRPGshauno: I pretty much dismissed anything that wasn't already in binary form03:08
ali1234M4A79XTD, phenom 2 x4 3.2ghz, 4GB ram03:08
HazRPGwas in a lazy mood at the time03:08
ali1234and geforce 24003:08
shaunosunvox is in binary, just not packaged03:08
HazRPGshauno: is it?03:08
HazRPGmight have to try it then03:08
shaunothe zip on their website contains a bunch of static binaries for various platforms03:09
ali1234vice can emulate C64 midi cart btw03:09
ali1234you can map sid registers to midi controls and stuff03:09
HazRPGshauno: ah, no I see why I dismissed it now03:09
ali1234and use a proper sequencer instead of a tracker03:09
HazRPGali1234: nice setup you've got :)03:10
HazRPGali1234: I can't seem to get vice going :(03:10
HazRPGI have a feeling I'm missing a BIOS for it03:10
ali1234you need to download the roms separately03:10
ali1234read the readme it tells you where to get them03:10
HazRPGhmm, where do they store those?03:11
HazRPGI'm too use to C:\Program Files\ sadly :( (despite using linux since 2006)03:11
ali1234synaptic, "installed files", ???, profit03:12
HazRPGshauno: I just realised I didn't explain why I dismissed it - its because I thought the gui representation of the instruments, and chips (I think?) just seemed like a wacky concept03:13
HazRPGshauno: also, wave forms put me off unless I'm working with raw sound files03:14
ali1234you think modular synth is "wacky"?03:14
HazRPGno, it just looks wacky03:14
shaunoI think waves are pretty relevant03:15
shaunotriangle vs saw vs sine vs rect is a huge part of what makes up the 'voices' for chips03:16
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HazRPGit might just be because GoatTracker was the first one I used - along with a GB tracker I owned years ago (despite not being able to get sound out of it at the time) - putting in numbers makes more sense to me then drawing waves myself03:18
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HazRPGreason I was having trouble with milky03:18
HazRPGthat and it would refuse to let me do anything fancy with the waves I made after I'd created them :/03:19
HazRPGbut that might just be ignorance on my part03:19
ali1234when you put in those numbers you're really just typing in samples one sample at a time03:19
HazRPGali1234: I understand that, but /that/ makes more sense then seeing a wave length to me03:20
HazRPGI don't understand why... I just know that the numbers seem to make more sense somehow03:23
hamitronnn all o/03:25
HazRPGhamitron: night dude03:25
HazRPGhmm, not sure which ROM set to download03:26
HazRPGvice-roms.tar.gz; vice-1.5-roms.tar.gz (as recommended in the readme);03:27
shaunoread it backwards :)03:33
shaunome read the recommended vice-1.5-roms ...03:33
shaunoit's almost a sentence man.  it's a sign :)03:33
ali1234go hang a salami! i'm a lasagna hog03:34
shaunoand with that, it's bedtime.  up since 5, so it's Time.03:35
shaunolast note.  you could remove all questions and go full on nerd.  http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/SID-shield03:38
HazRPGshauno: heh I bought a pack that had a speaker with it, along with a few other bits from that03:39
HazRPGshauno: however I'm not skilled enough to make a tune out of it all03:39
shaunoyou can hook a sid up to it.  you apparently like stuffing numbers down sid's throat.  what else is there to it ?03:39
HazRPGalso, I got the vice-roms.tar.gz (seems to be the most current version)03:39
ali1234ah, i need to install a libsdl with support for something other than pulseaudio03:41
HazRPGtrue... but its different doing it this way, surely having a SID you'd have to put the numbers in by forming several timing circuits together03:41
HazRPGali1234: oh, doesn't libsdl support others?03:41
ali1234it does but they are in separate packages03:42
HazRPGootb I mean03:42
ali1234just need to switch it out03:42
HazRPGnow for the moment of truth with this rom pack (just cp'ed them in)03:42
HazRPGnope, still got nothing :/03:42
HazRPGah 1.5 apparently has a few other files (typical)03:44
HazRPGooo, I got 2 out of 6 working :)03:48
HazRPGhaving no luck with this04:06
HazRPGkeeps saying the kernal can't be loaded04:06
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speedxco1efind job2011 -mtime -120 -exec cp -rvu --preserve=timestamps "{}" buptest2011/ \;04:27
speedxco1eI am doint it wrong =/04:27
speedxco1eit takes files much older than 120days too..04:27
HazRPGali1234: managed to get that libsdl working dude?05:01
ali1234 yeah05:01
HazRPGI think its +120 not -12005:01
HazRPGspeedxco1e: or possibly try taking out the -/+ altogether and just leave as -mtime 12005:03
HazRPGspeedxco1e: from what I can tell, it needs to be a positive number either way05:03
HazRPGali1234: hmm, got them working :D05:04
HazRPGalthough one complains about alsa, but I can live with that05:04
ali1234had to report some bugs against another program that didn't like me uninstalling sdl-pulse05:04
HazRPGI wish the communities as a whole would pick one and stick with05:05
* HazRPG doesn't know what to do now with x6405:07
HazRPGhowever my Sharp had a VERY similar interface to this... so would I be wrong in thinking they ran on a similar os?05:07
ali1234it's possible05:09
ali1234commodore did licence some stuff05:09
HazRPGhmm, there's a mz700 emu for windows apparently05:11
HazRPGoooooo, there's one for linux too!05:12
HazRPGunder dosbox05:12
ali1234what's an mz700?05:13
ali1234i've never heard of half these things05:13
HazRPGSharp MZ700 is the system I had05:13
HazRPGcame with BASIC and 2 game tapes05:13
ali1234wow, it had a built in datasette?05:14
HazRPGyup :)05:14
ali1234i wish i didn't thrown out my broken C64 and plotter05:14
ali1234was one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itu--nY-9bQ05:16
ali1234for some reason i kept the crap dot matrix printer05:16
ali1234still got that in a cupboard somewhere05:16
HazRPGhaha nice05:17
HazRPGcan't believe you threw that out, and a c64!05:18
ali1234well it was broken and i was like 14 and my parents made me05:18
HazRPGjust out of interest, what's your age?05:18
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HazRPGsee I never got the mz700 until I was 1005:20
HazRPGand I'm guessing my dad had it for a few years before that05:20
HazRPGali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtSkZI8CE805:21
ali1234hmm there's one on ebay for £1005:21
HazRPGI can't see any05:22
ali1234the plotter, not the sharp05:22
ali1234oh wow it's space harrier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-4Zu0DN2g&NR=105:38
ali1234i was thinking about space harrier earlier after someone mentioned star fox, it's basically the same game but with sprites instead of 3d05:39
ali1234those graphics are pretty good considering how big the pixels are05:39
HazRPGoh wow05:40
ali1234good framerate and if you squint your eyes it looks quite good05:40
ali1234i would imagine it looks a lot better on a blurry TV05:40
HazRPGyou know, I don't recall owning any coloured games for my mz70005:41
HazRPGI'm beginning to think my TV couldn't use the MZ-700 properly05:49
ali1234maybe it was pal/ntsc difference?05:49
HazRPGbecause I don't remember there being colour05:49
ali1234that will result in grey picture05:49
HazRPGcould be05:49
HazRPGalthough I recall my tv had both pal/ntsc - because dad bought it from Saudi05:50
HazRPGmust have had an ntsc machine (or set to ntsc) and running it through pal settings05:50
HazRPGalthough I can't see any videos of any of the games I had either05:51
HazRPGthey were just pre-loaded games that came on a tape with the machine05:51
ali1234well the main rom screen was supposed to be blue from what i can see05:51
HazRPGhmm, I remember it being blue05:51
HazRPGmaybe the games made/released with the machine were only grey scale05:52
HazRPGah, it was the mz721 I had to be exact05:54
HazRPGbecause it had the tape drive05:54
ali1234maybe the games were setting it to ntsc mode05:54
HazRPGcould be05:54
HazRPGali1234: woo! Finally found them!06:03
HazRPGali1234: http://www.sharpmz.org/mz-700/10games.html06:03
HazRPGthose were the games I had on one tape06:03
HazRPGand yeah it was colour, I clearly wasn't really paying attention back then06:04
HazRPGI recall playing land escape it blue06:04
ali1234circus star sounds like a great game06:05
HazRPGhaha, it was a really really odd game06:06
HazRPGmy favourite was Painful Man06:07
HazRPGsnake and snake was interesting to say the least06:08
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HazRPGali1234, not sure but I think this story might interest you - it's a hacker called Morpheus who messed around with the c64... here's what he wrote in an interview with him years later (just a snip from the "any cool stories to share with us?" section): http://pastebin.com/NwWdqqMY06:46
HazRPGinterview was from: http://www.c64.com/06:47
MartijnVdSheh.. a record company sent me some American candy with a 7" I ordered :)06:50
MartijnVdSjust re-checked the envelope and found it06:50
HazRPGMartijnVdS: nice07:14
HazRPGdaubers: morning07:20
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daubersI'm trying to decide if I want to goto the Museum of computings speccy programming thing07:22
dauberspopeys blog post almost had me booking tickets07:22
* daubers ponders if the speccy he has in pieces can be made to work07:28
alexcockellAhh - I remember those..07:35
optimusPhow to share a folder in VB guest windows xp NTFS07:40
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AlanBelldaubers: I have been to the museum, small but really interesting08:12
daubersAlanBell: I'm just interested in a bit of naustalgic speccy programming08:14
daubersI won £10 on the lottery with my dads speccy08:15
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* daubers blames popey08:28
dauberspopey: because of you I've got a spectrum and a soldering iron all over the kitchen table08:29
cbx333ali1234, thanks for the fork :)08:32
daubersMight get the offices metal worker people to quote me on an aluminium shell for it08:33
dauberslovely black anodised one08:33
cbx333HazRPG, the other thing that i will need some input on - is situations you find yourself in whilst using Git that others might find themselves in and not know how to solve necessarily08:42
cbx333especially if there are multiple answers08:43
popeyhaha daubers08:45
cbx333hey popey08:48
daubersneed to get some connectors to run it into the ariel socket of the telle08:55
AlanBelldaubers: your challenge of the day is to splice in an HDMI output08:55
AlanBelland don't forget to wire the overscan area to the speakers so the borders flicker when loading stuff!08:56
AlanBellthat was a totally bonkers bit of technical architecture08:57
daubersAlanBell: If I get another chassis made, I'll get the fixing points made for the revo mobo08:57
popeyI love that the DS has the same screen resolution as the Spectrum :)08:57
AlanBelltrying to remember what that was08:58
AlanBellI remember it was in three bands08:58
daubersI've got the service manual if you want it08:58
dauberscomplete with circuit diagrams08:58
AlanBellblack and white with a low resolution colour overlay08:59
popeythe DS speccy emulator even emulates it08:59
MooDoohello all08:59
popeyoh the 3 bands08:59
popeyyes, 256x19208:59
popey24 lines, 3 blocks of 808:59
daubersAll computers should come with something like http://www.worldofspectrum.org/ZXBasicManual/09:02
AlanBellI remember being really dissapointed that my Amiga manual didn't have circuit diagrams in it09:02
AlanBellspeccy basic was a great manual09:03
AlanBellactually taught maths whilst explaining what the functions did09:03
daubersI learnt algebra from that boot09:03
AlanBellme too09:03
AlanBellkids of today don't know what they are missing out on09:04
AlanBellI remember when this was all fields09:04
daubersAnd on that note I really should go to the parents and help them dig in 50 bags of mushroom compost09:04
* AlanBell heads of to Birmingham09:04
MooDooAlanBell: not going to the photography show are you ?09:09
popeyAlanBell: safe trip!09:09
AlanBellMooDoo: nope, a birthday party with jelly and ice cream09:10
MooDooAlanBell: well safe trip and stop teasin :)09:10
livingdaylightAvé !09:12
livingdaylight| Avé Mandrake09:15
MooDooawesome blog post popey :)  remember the magazine Crash! :)09:16
livingdaylightMandrake, I remember mandrake os09:17
livingdaylightMooDoo, wha'ts it about ?09:17
MooDoolivingdaylight: popeys computer history and his first the xz81 :)09:18
livingdaylightI don't even know what dat is?09:18
MooDoolivingdaylight: how old are you?09:19
livingdaylightMooDoo, :s09:19
MooDoolivingdaylight: i didn't mean anything by it :) just if you're a whipper snapper you might not know what it is :)09:19
livingdaylightMooDoo, I think i had a deprived childhood09:19
MooDoolol i'm referring to the Sinclair ZX8109:19
livingdaylightour famous inventor, wasn't he?09:20
MooDoolivingdaylight: yes, Sir Clive Sinclair09:20
popey30 years old today09:20
MooDooyou youngsters today :D lol09:21
livingdaylightI watched Revolution OS yesterday... still good to see09:21
MooDoolivingdaylight: very good film :)09:21
livingdaylightamazing how it all came together09:22
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livingdaylightopensource is the best09:22
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livingdaylightso many opensource initiatives now besides software09:24
MooDoolivingdaylight: yup :) get in while the iron is hot :)09:28
dwatkinsa vote for regular backups here: my other half tried triple-booting her Macbook Pro and it paniced during resizing of the windows partition, and had to be restored from the latest backup, but that had failed, so the previous backup had to be used.09:32
livingdaylightMandrake, Avé09:32
livingdaylightis it best to install on VB using cd or iso image? trying to launch from cd here but after initially starting up it seems to go no where09:34
popeydwatkins: +109:36
dwatkinspopey: I can't believe it paniced during resize09:38
* dutchie notes that his backups have been failing for the past x weeks09:38
* dutchie uncomments the important line09:38
dwatkinsA backup isn't a backup until it's been successfully verified09:39
livingdaylightalways back your backup up09:41
dwatkinslivingdaylight: that was the other thing that occurred, having two separate physical copies as well09:41
popeydwatkins: what was doing the resize?09:44
dwatkinspopey: the standard installer, I think - the GUI09:44
popeywhich OS?09:45
dwatkinsturns out it didn't panic, bug gave an error which couldn't be rescued from, so may as well have paniced09:45
dwatkins10.10 64-bit09:45
popeyi wouldn't do a rezise on a mbp with ubuntu09:45
popeyI'd use disk utility in osx09:45
dwatkinsoh right. do you use refit as the boot mgr?09:46
dwatkinsdo you know of any instructions (i.e. a howto) that's current etc.?09:47
dwatkinsthe one we were following is from the heady days of Ubuntu 8.0409:47
popeyfor which bit?09:47
dwatkinsafter xp is installed to create an ubuntu partition etc. and install09:48
popeyso you have osx and xp?09:48
popeysplit between the two, no spare disk space?09:48
dwatkinsthat was the stage this mbp was at yesterday, it's just being restored from the backup due to the resize problem trashing the entire disk09:49
popeynot sure, i dont have windows on mine09:49
dwatkinsaha I see09:49
popeyI'd probably not be where you are tbh09:50
dwatkinsWhich Ubuntu do you have on yours? Does all the hardware work, e.g. sound?09:50
dwatkinsyeah, I see what you mean, popey - she wants to have the option of booting all three09:50
popeyI would have started with osx on the full disk, then use disk utility to shrink the osx down09:50
popeyand add two partitions09:50
popeythen install xp and ubuntu into those09:51
dwatkinsah, I didn't know that was an option09:51
livingdaylightgiven one has sufficient memory is there any advantage from having a dual/triple boot to using Virtualization?09:52
popeyi use windows in a vm on my mac, and ubuntu natively installed09:53
balorMorning peanut gallery09:53
balorI suspect that jono's in for a bit of a blog-bashing today09:54
dwatkinsindeed, I tend to just run all OSs apart from OS X in a virtual machine on my Mac09:54
popeybalor: hmm?09:55
dwatkinsfor gaming I guess it's best to run windoze natively for speed, but none of the games I play don't have Mac versions09:55
balorpopey: http://is.gd/gacZWX Mark called Fedora "Open Core" and Jono said that many of us (people like me) are the "peanut gallery"09:56
popeybalor: he has already explained that comment09:56
balorpopey: where?09:56
balorpopey: It's still ill-advised phraseology.09:57
popeyI agree with him09:57
balorpopey: So do I, to an extent.09:59
popeywe have a lot of detractors, many who never have and never will use ubuntu09:59
popeyI dont think they should dictate the project direction09:59
balorpopey: It's just when you make a black-and-white distinction i.e. inside/outside the peanut gallery, then you have to define who's in it09:59
balorpopey: So, for example, my student who has never directly contributed to Ubuntu - but has installed it on at least 5 of his classmates machines10:00
balorpopey: is his opinion on U, from the peanut gallery or not10:00
popeyI dont believe its black and white like that10:00
popeyits not a venn diagram10:00
popey"All these people are in the peanut gallery@10:01
popeyI think you're over-analyzing it10:01
livingdaylightdwatkins, for gaming its true i can see how running native makes more sense10:01
balorpopey: I'm a researcher in formal logic, of course I over-analyse :)10:01
balorpopey: And my area of specialism happens to be Euler diagrams - Venn diagrams *are* a type of Euler diagram.10:02
dwatkinslivingdaylight: yeah, it's just that now there are enough native Mac games I'm not concerned about this personally. She is, though :)10:02
livingdaylightdetractor = hater?10:08
livingdaylightyea, constantly referring to  ubuntu users as part of the "peanut gallery" isn't cool... I agree there. All users should be shown respect and value10:11
dwatkinsI don't even know what a peanut gallery is.... *googles*10:11
popeylivingdaylight: nobody did that10:11
popeynobody "constantly" referred to "ubuntu users" as part of the "peanut gallery"10:11
livingdaylightpopey, now you're being very precise10:12
balorlivingdaylight: It was one poor reference, I think. A silly statement.10:12
dwatkinsah, people who don't get involved and just heckle, I guess10:12
popeyonly to counter your wild inaccuracies10:12
balorlivingdaylight: It's important to be precise. Jono doesn't always refer to us as the peanut gallery10:13
livingdaylightbut he is referring to OMGubuntu and similar how-to support sites as being in the gallery?10:13
balorlivingdaylight: just once, and I believe it was just a bad phrase to use10:13
popeyi dont10:13
popeywe have people who constantly pick on us10:13
balorlivingdaylight: that's the bit that's unclear to me10:13
livingdaylightbalor, not always, good - never is better still10:13
popeypeople who have no interest in making the project better10:13
popeythey just nitpick everything10:13
popeyand the reference to OMG is more about the readership10:14
popeythere's a lot of people who read OMG who are outside the ubuntu community10:14
balorpopey: I've no idea who those people are. I suspect people who don't care about Ubuntu don't comment on it.10:14
livingdaylightIf it wasn't for sites like OMGubuntu whos tutorials I've used countless times (note that is also not a precise term) I probably wouldn't be using Ubuntu now10:14
popeybalor: thats flat out not true10:14
popeylivingdaylight: nobody said omg is bad10:14
popeyor that it should exist10:14
balorpopey: Possibly, but I said that *I've* no idea who they are.10:15
livingdaylightpopey, *shouldn't ?10:15
balorpopey: Which is why I'm unhappy with the imprecision in jono's words10:15
popeyyeah, typo, sorry10:15
balorpopey: And unhappy with Mark referring to Fedora as Open Core10:15
livingdaylightit is left open for misterpretation at the very least. The tone is not positive towards these sites10:15
balorlivingdaylight: I think that's the issue in a nutshell10:16
livingdaylightbalor, I read that with open mind and immediately that is how it came across to me10:16
balorNo-one thinks that Jono meant anything bade he just " left [things] open for misterpretation at the very least. The tone is not positive towards [some community] sites"10:16
popeyits not the sites that are the problem10:16
popeyits the readers/commenters10:17
balorpopey: yes.10:17
popeyor a subset of them10:17
balorpopey: Certainly10:17
balorpopey: It's the imprecision in the comment though.10:17
popeyuse your brain and interpret it :)10:17
balorpopey: Yes.10:17
balorpopey: My interpretation is that some of the Canonical peeps are tired after taking flack about the Banshee thing.  They're struggling to find revenue streams for Ubuntu. And when they find a source, someone crys foul.10:18
popeyI'm sure thats part of it10:19
balorI suppose this is why big companies have PR10:19
balorand you only hear the PR line10:19
popeythey still get that wrong10:19
balorIt's easier to control the PR line and to not give an honest opinion10:19
popeysee Apple -> "You're holding it wrong"10:19
livingdaylightremember the head of BP at the height of the gulf debacle talking about his concern for "the little people" that was lol funny10:20
livingdaylighthe flew out there to make it better and made it worse, lol10:21
popeythis is my point, people might use phrases others find offensive or inadequate, or illogical or imprecise.10:21
popeywe're a global community and people often pick apart every word someone says10:21
popeythe Fedora Open Core thing.. well, he has a point10:22
popeyY'know I wouldn't be surprised if Red Hat shutdown their Source ftp site10:22
balorI think not10:22
popeyI hear it's been discussed internally at redhat10:22
popeyso only customers can get source, and not people like oracle / centos10:22
=== Guest96455 is now known as LjL-Temp
popeybut thats just a rumour :)10:23
balorThat's fine10:23
balorBut Fedora is not RedHat10:23
balorAs Ubuntu is not Canonical10:23
=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest91550
popeyWithout Red Hat, fedora would not exist10:23
popeysame goes for Canonical, Ubuntu10:23
balorpopey: But the Open Core comment just sounds like sniping.10:24
balorIs Ubuntu "Open Core" for canonical?10:24
popeywe dont have a server version you pay for10:24
popeyso no10:24
balorGiven that Canonical have more proprietary services than RedHat10:24
popeythose are added services10:24
popeyRHEL _is_ the product10:24
balorWhich is Open Source10:24
* popey looks for an iso10:25
* balor looks at the definition of Open Source10:25
* MooDoo hides his fedora cloak10:25
popeybalor: open source and open core10:26
balorpopey: So is Ubuntu "open core" in order to sell landscape?10:26
balor(which is proprietary)10:26
popeyyou dont have to pay for landscape, there's no requirement to use it10:26
baloras opposed to SpaceWalk, which is open source10:26
popeybut you _have_ to pay for rhel / up2date10:27
balorit's a revenue stream10:27
popeyoh well that makes it okay then10:27
balorHow else do you make money?10:27
balorThat's their business model.10:27
balorIt's successful10:27
balorIt's open-source10:27
livingdaylightproblems always arise out of the need for money10:27
popeyI'm going out10:27
* balor writes his thesis10:28
popeyneed to take sam to opticians10:28
livingdaylightsuch a corrupting influence - every time10:28
livingdaylightpopey, did you see rip-off britain last night? all about opticians in this country10:28
livingdaylightlenses cost like 0.25p in reality....10:29
=== supercos1onaut is now known as przem
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=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest40310
Myrttiiihhh http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5499289490/12:11
dutchieoh ffs12:13
Myrttithe only way of getting any in Finland12:14
MyrttiI haven't seen any dandelion burdock sold anywhere12:15
scoundrel50to  view my shares, I am entering smb://<Ip address> into the adress bar, it brings up the folders from the other computer, but it wask for three things, the username, Domain and password, but it doesnt matter what I add in there, it wont let me in. How can I find out what the name of the domain is on the other computer?12:15
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: you can leave domain empty, and just use username/password usually12:21
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: unless you're in a corporate network with Windows domain server etc.12:21
scoundrel50MartijVdS:Hi, I tried that, and it greys out the connect button.12:23
scoundrel50I'm at home12:23
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: just keep what's there then (usually the workgroup name)12:23
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: if the other end is a Windows machine, use a valid username/password on that machine12:24
=== Guest40310 is now known as LjL-Temp
scoundrel50Workgroup is in the Domain but I am wondering if its been added as something else somewhere. Keeping Workgroup isnt working either.12:24
=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest171
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: are you using a username/password that work on the Windows machine?12:25
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: right now I am logged into the Ubuntu partition of both machines, and have entered the name of the username and password of the other machine, but its not working12:26
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: ah.. they're both Ubuntu machines :)12:26
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: install "libpam-smbpass" on the "server" machine, then log out and back in12:27
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: was hoping that might have made things easier, but it doesnt seem so.12:27
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: between two Ubuntu machines I'd use ssh, not smb12:28
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: ok, one sec, I wii try now.12:28
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: install the "ssh" package for it to work12:28
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: how do I install the ssh package, can it be done via the Terminal, right now I am using the Terminal to install the other mentioned pack, where do I get ssh package from. Plus, after this has been installed, will I be able to see the windows partition, on this machine from the other machine.12:31
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: "sudo apt-get install ssh" will install the ssh package12:32
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: just tried that, and its installed,12:32
MartijnVdS"sudo" -> "do as superuser", "apt-get" (package tool), "install" (guess), "ssh" (package name)12:32
scoundrel50will just log off and be back in a minute, thank you12:32
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: ok, so logged out, and back in again, what do I do next?12:35
brobostigonafternoonings everyone.12:35
dwatkinsoioi brobostigon12:36
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: "Connect to server" from the menu at the top12:36
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: then select "ssh", put the IP of the other machine in the "server" field, and your username in the "username" field12:36
brobostigonafternoonings dwatkins12:36
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: it'll ask for a password when you click "Connect"12:37
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: folder and port can be left empty/default12:37
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: will that just allow me to see the Ubuntu file of the other machine, how will I be able to see the windows partition?12:39
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: if the Windows partition on the other machine is mounted, you'll be able to browse to it12:39
MyrttiMartijnVdS: I'd use nfs if the computers are in a safe lan, ssh adds unneeded overhead12:40
Myrttibut to each of their own12:40
scoundrel50how can I mount the windows partition on the other machine? I can only view it, via Filoesystem,12:41
MartijnVdSMyrtti: nfs has a lot of setup-overhead12:41
MartijnVdSMyrtti: if you just want to copy files once in a while, nfs is overkill12:41
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: if I go to Places>Network, then click on the Windows Icon, it says unable to mount, failed to retrieve share list from server. I know the both machines can see each other, have worked that out. But cant get rid of that error.12:42
MartijnVdSI don't know12:44
scoundrel50Its really bugging me, it only developed that error, after upgrade to 10.04, but, my netbook had a fresh install, and it doesnt have that error.12:45
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: did you enable a firewall?12:45
scoundrel50I now have 10.10 and the error is still there12:45
scoundrel50I need to get a firewall installed, but want to sort this forst before doing that12:46
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: ok, tried that doing ssh, and it says connection refused by server12:48
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: does "nmblookup" work?12:49
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: (nmblookup name_of_other_machine_here)12:49
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: I just pinged the other machine, and its working12:49
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: please try nmblookup :)12:49
scoundrel50ok, one sec12:49
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: ok, that is odd, this is the message I get when I enter that command.......The program 'nmblookup' can be found in the following packages:12:52
scoundrel50 * samba-common-bin  * samba4-clients Try: sudo apt-get install <selected package>12:52
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: I dont have samba4 installed, only samba3x12:52
MartijnVdStry samba-common-bin12:53
MartijnVdSthat's samba 312:53
MartijnVdS+part of12:53
scoundrel50it says failed to find, using both ipo address and computer name12:55
scoundrel50its odd becauwse I can ping the othjer machine12:56
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: do you know how Windows networking ("samba") works internally?12:57
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: there are a few good debugging guides on samba.org12:57
scoundrel50ok, will go take a look. I aqm not a geek, I can barely understand some of the terminology used with Ubuntu and windows, but will have a go thanks for the help anyway.12:58
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: Just to be sure.. you have two Ubuntu machines? Or one Ubuntu machine and a Windows machine?12:59
scoundrel50can I ask, how come I can ping the other computer, but nmblookup fails to find12:59
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: nmblookup sends a request onto the network: "Who has this name?"13:00
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: if nobody replies, or the reply doesn't reach your machine, it'll time out/fail13:00
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: I have an Ubuntu Netbook, and a Windows machine with ubuntu partitioned. I can see the windows partition using File System, but it wont mount.13:01
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: is there an error message in that case?13:02
scoundrel50I can ping from both machines, and it works, but dont know why it wont share13:02
scoundrel50It says unable to mount, failed to retrieve filesystem13:02
MartijnVdSI have no idea, sorry13:03
MartijnVdSBut it seems like you're mixing up two problems:13:03
MartijnVdS- Network access from netbook to other machine13:03
MartijnVdS- Windows disk partition access while running Ubuntu on the other machine13:03
scoundrel50Well, so far, I am just trying to see if I can get my two Ubuntu machines to see each other and share, but I can, the windows, I can try and get to work after I get the Ubuntu machines to see each other13:04
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: the Ubuntu machines can use ssh to share files with each other13:04
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: like I explained earlier13:05
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: if you put "/" in the "Path" box in the "Connect to server" dialog box, you shuold be able to see the entire file system of the machine you connected to13:05
scoundrel50Its giving me an error using ssh, it says 'connection refused by server'13:07
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: you have to install "ssh" on the machine you're connecting to13:11
MartijnVdS(i.e. the server :))13:11
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: sorry was on other machine trying to see if I could connect to this one, it just times out. Will see if I need to install ssh on it.13:13
MartijnVdSthat sounds like a firewall issue, or maybe the same network issue that's preventing nmblookup from working13:14
scoundrel50so how do I find otu if it is a firewall issue. I dont remember adding a firewall.13:17
scoundrel50I just installed ssh on other machine, but still get time out error13:17
scoundrel50funny thing, I had no problems at all, before 10.4, worked perfectly, then upgraded, adn nothing since.13:18
scoundrel5010.10 on both machines still can share13:18
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: on the command line, try:13:20
MartijnVdSssh -v -l username_on_other_machine other_machines_ip13:20
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: and paste the output to pastebin13:20
lubotu3`For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.13:20
scoundrel50ok, one sec13:20
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scoundrel50MartijnVdS: sorry for taqking so long, its asking for authentification keys, passwords and I just screwed up, so have to start again, sorry13:27
scoundrel50ok, got something, will post to pastebin now, give me a sec.13:28
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: here is ther result.......http://paste.ubuntu.com/575969/13:31
scoundrel50Dont know what that did, but it did something that allwos me to view Ubuntu from this computer, I'll check to see if I can do the same from the other computer13:35
* brobostigon decides to try and do a cm7 build for his htc dream himself.13:36
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: you're logged in on the other computer13:37
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: that means connecting using the "Connect to server" dialog should now work13:38
MartijnVdS(even after you log out -- I think it might have failed because of the "Are you sure you want to continue" bit)13:38
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: ok, there is definately something wrong with this computer, I think its blocked somehow. I am trying that command from the other computer, and its not working13:40
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: what do you mean by that?13:41
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: it should execute commands as you type them13:41
MartijnVdStry things like "ls"13:42
scoundrel50ok, well, this computer which is the partioned windows computer that I am using Ubuntu from, can now see the netbook, and view its Ubuntu shares, using ssh.13:42
MartijnVdSthat sounds good :)13:43
scoundrel50So I go to try the same thing from the other computer to see if I can see this computers shares, and nothing, so i try that ssh command I used, and posted result to pastgebin with, adn after the command it jujst hangs and does nothing, so this computer is blocking other computers from seeing it, I think13:44
scoundrel50this is what I get for the other netbok http://paste.ubuntu.com/575975/14:00
scoundrel50MartijnVdS: do you know what this means as well? Your CPU appears to be lacking expected security protections. Please check your BIOS settings, or for more information, run:  /usr/bin/check-bios-nx --verbose14:02
Synth_samHi all14:04
balorscoundrel50: Are these netbooks connected via wifi?  If so, does the router block any ports?14:04
Synth_samI need to install 10.4.2 on an external drive for my father14:04
Synth_samWhen I tried it before I used the desktop disk and it overwrote the MBR of sda14:05
scoundrel50baloe: the netbook is connected via wifi, but I have no idea if the router blocks any ports how do I find that out.14:05
Synth_samThink I can stop that happening with the alternate?14:05
scoundrel50balor....sorry for the typo in your name14:06
balorscoundrel50: (1) can you ping the other machine, (2) look at the wifi router configuration - they normally have a web admin panel14:06
scoundrel50balor: Hi, yes I can ping both machines14:07
balorscoundrel50: Can you, say, nmap one machine from the other, to see what ports are open?14:07
balorscoundrel50: for example "nmap"14:08
scoundrel50ok, will try from the other machine to see what ports are open, is that all I have to put into the terminal nmap?14:08
balorscoundrel50: and the ip address.  There are graphical nmap tools, but this is the quickest14:09
balorscoundrel50: You should see what ports are open then.  If you can't see the port you expect to be open then (a) it's not open, or (b) the router is doing something strange.14:09
BigMacdoes anyone know when firefox 3.6.15 will be available in the repositories?14:10
scoundrel50oki, here is what happened when I nmap'd this machine pastebin.ubuntu.com/57598014:13
Synth_samdid you try -PN?14:14
balorscoundrel50: If they're both actually online, then it looks as if your wireless AP is blocking access between them.14:14
scoundrel50balor: so how do i get around that14:15
scoundrel50Synth_sam: is that something I need to try, and if so, how?14:16
balorscoundrel50: On my wireless AP, I just went into the management console (a web page) and turned off anything that looked like it was "smart" or "security"14:16
Synth_samscoundrel50: run nmap again with -PN as options on the command line before the ip address14:16
balorscoundrel50: Like Synth_sam said, you could try "nmap -PN ip"14:16
balorscoundrel50: But basically, it doesn't look like an Ubuntu problem.  You'd find the same issue with Windows or OS X as the router is not routing traffic correctly14:18
scoundrel50balor: ok, I'm trying that from the netbook to this computer, and it seems to be hanging and doing nothing.14:19
scoundrel50can I ask though, why it should have worked ok before upgrading,14:19
balorscoundrel50: -PN can take a while to give back data14:19
balorscoundrel50: Ah.  Didn't know that.  If it worked before upgrade, it should work after upgrade.  Maybe it is an Ubuntu issue14:19
balorscoundrel50: Do you have a firewall maybe?  did it get turned on in the upgrade?14:20
scoundrel50I also found this after one of the things somebody else asked me to do, via the terminal, would you have any idea what this means? Your CPU appears to be lacking expected security protections.14:20
scoundrel50Please check your BIOS settings, or for more information, run:14:20
scoundrel50  /usr/bin/check-bios-nx --verbose14:20
scoundrel50I have no idea about the firewall, how do I find that out14:21
scoundrel50um, this is what I got from nmap -PN pastebin.ubuntu.com/57598314:23
Synth_samscoundrel50: the "host is up" notification doesn't mean anything because -PN told it to assume that the host is up14:24
Synth_samit didn't find any open ports so it's at the same point14:25
scoundrel50so why is this computer blocked from sharing14:25
scoundrel50really annoying14:25
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=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest52809
Synth_samis a ubuntu machine? (I wasn't here for the start of the convo)14:26
Synth_samscoundrel50: it's a windows machine? What version of windows?14:28
scoundrel50These problems have only occured since upgrading. it happened on the Netbook as well, and that wqas only fixed in the end with a fresh install.14:30
scoundrel50I was hoping I would have to do that on this machine14:30
Synth_samupgrading what?14:30
scoundrel50upgrading from 9.04 to 10.04 ubuntu. From 10.04 sharing stopped14:30
scoundrel50any form of sharing stopped14:31
Synth_samthe 10.04 machine is sharing and you can't access from windows, or the other way round?14:31
scoundrel50sorry, I should have explained even more. I have upgraded since 10.04, to 10.10 on both machines. The netbook I decided that I would do a complete fresh inistall of 10.10, but have just upgraded with this machine. From this afternoon, I finally managed to be able to see from this machine using ssh my netbook shares, but from the netbook, this machine is blocked out14:33
scoundrel50Sorry, been on here for hours, forget who has seen what14:34
scoundrel50It seems, my only option with this computer, might be another fresh install, if I cant get this machine to share. I didnt want to do that really.14:35
Synth_samscoundrel50: just to check if you have the ubuntu standard firewall running, try "sudo ufw status"14:35
scoundrel50it says active14:36
scoundrel50and gives a small list14:36
Synth_samwhat are the list14:36
Synth_samthey are the open ports14:36
Synth_samyou need 139 and 445 for samba14:37
scoundrel50one sec I'll mpost to pastebin14:37
scoundrel50how did that get started?14:38
Synth_samok, so that is set to leave the correct ports open for samba on the computer that you're on at the moment14:38
scoundrel50can I stop it, and see if my problems get sorted?14:39
Synth_sam"sudo ufw disable"14:39
scoundrel50ok, one sec, will try14:39
Synth_samit will work14:39
Synth_samthat is set to allow those ports for the network -
scoundrel50I'll just go see if I can see this computer from the other one, brb14:40
Synth_samand your other computer has an ip address
Synth_samso the rules need changing if you want to allow that computer access14:41
Synth_samif you have ufw active on all of the computers with incorrect permissions, this will explain why you have a problem14:41
scoundrel50just disabled it, and I can see this computer from the other one14:41
Synth_sambingo, if you want to set up the actual rules to keep your firewall on, I can walk you through that too14:42
scoundrel50so, its the ufw firewall on here that is blocking other computers. So how do I fix that, so I can keep the firewall going, and view the shares?14:42
scoundrel50sorry, was typing, cant type and read14:43
scoundrel50would that be possible please14:43
scoundrel50its take about a year to work this out14:43
Synth_samright, if you don't have computers in the subnet then you can delete those rules first14:43
Synth_sam"sudo ufw delete <num>"14:43
Synth_samwhere number is the line number in the list from before14:43
Synth_samrun ufw status to get the numbers again every time you do it14:44
scoundrel50ok, I am realloy sorry, but you have lost me now14:44
Synth_samthen do this "sudo ufw allow from to any port 139"14:44
Synth_samthat allows traffic from other computers to port 139 on your computer14:45
Synth_samother computers in the subnet listed14:45
Synth_sami.e. etc14:46
Synth_samthen do the same for port 44514:46
Synth_samthat's samba sorted14:46
Synth_samany other services you want?14:46
Synth_sam22 for SSH14:46
scoundrel50um, can I ask, I am a bit lost, from the start. I have no clue at all about the firewall14:46
Synth_samok, the default rule for the firewall is to deny traffic14:47
Synth_samso you add rules as exceptions14:47
Synth_samthe last pastebin you did said that you have ports 137,138 and 139 open14:47
scoundrel50first off, I disabled the firewall, I need to enable it again, how?14:48
Synth_samsudo ufw enable14:48
scoundrel50ok, done that14:48
scoundrel50the prots now14:48
scoundrel50ports, sorry14:48
scoundrel50what do I need to do now?14:50
Synth_samright, delete the rules that exist already by running this command: "sudo ufw delete 1" three times14:51
Synth_samrun sudo ufw status14:52
Synth_samany rules listed?14:52
scoundrel50nothing listed, just says status active14:53
Synth_samok, so now you can add exceptions like this: "sudo ufw allow from to any port 139"14:53
Synth_sam(from to
Synth_samdo the same command for port 44514:54
Synth_samthat should allow both ubuntu and windows access on your local network14:54
scoundrel50ok, will give it a try14:54
mgdm /1614:55
scoundrel50what is in brackets do I add at end of port?14:55
Synth_samI was telling you the ip range that applied to14:56
Synth_samthat's the range that refers to14:56
scoundrel50ojh ok, now I understand, just did the first one, about to do the second14:56
scoundrel50just added those, will go check the other computer to see if I can see the shares, one sec14:57
scoundrel50um, something stopped it working again15:01
Synth_samhmm, strange15:02
scoundrel50Its definately the firewall, I just dissabled it again, and I can see this pc from the netbook15:03
scoundrel50so, its the rules15:03
scoundrel50funny thing, in Network, I now have the Ubuntu Icons and one os for this computer, but it still says when I click on it, unable to mount15:05
scoundrel50the new Icons werent there half hour ago15:05
scoundrel50ok, just checked this computers Icon from the Netbook, clicked on it and it opened up the shares, so i can see. Its how it used to work15:06
Synth_samwell you can try adding ports 137 and 138 too and see if that makes any difference15:06
scoundrel50oh wow, just gone into the Places Network on nthis machine, and the other computers Icons are there.15:07
scoundrel50I'll try add the other two ports one sec, to see if it works15:08
scoundrel50yep, I can see the netbook shares from Network.15:08
scoundrel50ok, about to add the other ports, one sec15:08
Synth_samso the netbook probably doesn't have ufw running then15:09
scoundrel50it doesnt look like, I'll check as soon as I check this one, I just enabled ufw again, one sec15:10
scoundrel50I need to log out and back in again to check one sec15:10
scoundrel50Synth_sam: back again, right, I can view this computers Ubuntu files from the netbook, but I have the Netbooks Icon still in the Network, but the unable to mount error is still coming up, so its the ports going out that are blocked by the sounds of things.15:15
Synth_samscoundrel50: what is the error that mount gives?15:15
scoundrel50Unable to mount location - Failed to retrieve share list from server15:16
scoundrel50if I stop the fireguard, I can see the shares, so its the fireguard15:17
scoundrel50is there another port that allows sharing15:18
scoundrel50I just checked with the ssh way, and I can see the neetbook from here, but I cant view this computer15:19
scoundrel50if I stpped ufw, how secure would I be?15:20
Synth_samif you have a router with a firewall between your network and the internet, that's fine15:21
Synth_sambut if you use your computer on a public network you will want ufw running15:21
Synth_sambut you can do that when you move your computer15:21
Synth_samjust run "sudo ufw enable"15:21
scoundrel50Its just me at home15:24
Synth_samyes, but you have the firewall on your router switched on?15:24
scoundrel50funny thing is though, if I click on the icons for desktop or pictures when trying to view the other computer, I still have to log in, but, no matter what I try to use, I cant log in.15:25
scoundrel50oh yes, I havbe that one switched on15:25
scoundrel50so can actually get into the other computer15:25
scoundrel50still cant, sorry15:25
scoundrel50very frustrating15:26
scoundrel50we are getting there15:26
=== Guest52809 is now known as LjL-Temp
Synth_samthe computer you're trying to get into is ubuntu?15:26
=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest63306
scoundrel50but I just work out now what username, Domain and password I need,15:26
scoundrel50yes, just trying to access Ubuntu at the minute15:27
Synth_samif it's a ubuntu computer, you need to have ran smbpasswd on that computer to activate your user for samba15:27
scoundrel50how do I do that?15:27
Synth_samyou said that this was working before though right?15:27
scoundrel50before upgrading to 10.0415:28
scoundrel50so how do I set up smbpasswd15:35
scoundrel50um, somebody I met on here set it up for me15:36
scoundrel50Oh well, thank you any way, I really appreciate the help.15:38
Synth_samright, try "sudo smbpasswd -e <yourusername>15:38
Synth_samsee what that says15:38
scoundrel50for which computer, this one or the one I am trying to view?15:39
Synth_samthe one you're trying to view15:39
scoundrel50it said enabled username15:42
Synth_samthat it was enabled, or that it has enabled it?15:42
Synth_samif it was the latter, then try connecting again15:42
scoundrel50it said Enabled user15:43
scoundrel50and I still get the Password required box appear15:44
Synth_samyeah, you will15:45
Synth_samit's very strange15:45
scoundrel50but its not allowing me to enter a password, doesnt matter how I do it, it isnt accepted.15:45
Synth_samtry (on the computer you're trying to connect to) to run smbpasswd as the user you're trying to connect as (i.e. no sudo), it will set your password for samba for that user15:46
scoundrel50ok, one sec15:46
scoundrel50would work, it said filed to connect to computer15:50
scoundrel50ok, in smb.conf I just discovered the workgroup for this computer is called ATLANTIS I wonder if I entered that on the Netbook, if it might work, one sec15:51
scoundrel50ok, that worked, where ATLANTIS came from, I have no idea.15:52
penguin42you found atlantis!15:53
scoundrel50Now I have to find the smb.conf file on the netbook, and see if I can get that to work15:53
scoundrel50I feel like I am in the twilight zone, to be honest, lol15:53
scoundrel50but, I think we have got there15:54
scoundrel50brb back, when I find the name of the workgroup for the netbook15:54
knightwiseconnectbot is one cool app  doing irc through ssh from my htc evo15:56
knightwisenow all i need is a bigger keyboard15:57
Synth_samknightwise: nifty, but I can imagine the pain of typing on a phone15:57
knightwiseallthough the next size up is a tablet15:58
Synth_samyes, but you still have to type with touchscreen then15:59
MartijnVdStouch typing15:59
scoundrel50Synth_sam: ok, this is bizzare, why is it that smb.conf file isnt automatically installed, when smaba is installed. That is both computers now, that didnt have the smb.conf file there. it means I have ti uninstall and reinstall again to ge the file, and go through all the process of sharing again. Whys is that?15:59
knightwisethats ok  i am wicked fast on the ipad16:00
Synth_samscoundrel50: I have absolutely no idea, are you sure you're looking in the correct place?16:00
scoundrel50oh yes, /var/lib/samba/ no file16:00
knightwisebut havung my servers cli on my phone is the bomb16:01
scoundrel50ok, that is different to what I was told yesterday#16:01
Synth_samwell, mine is installed in etc16:01
scoundrel50based on what I was told yesterday, I had to go and uninstal and reinstll samba16:01
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: that's not necessary, unless you didn't install it from the package?16:02
knightwisesudo apt-get install samba16:03
scoundrel50well, that is what I was told to do yesterday, but never mind.16:04
scoundrel50ok, this is very strange,16:05
scoundrel50on thi9s computer there are quite a few files in the /etc/samba/ direcotry including smb.conf plus a directory colled tis.16:06
scoundrel50in the netboopk there are only two files, one is a smb.conf file.16:06
scoundrel50strange thing, having put a smb.conf file into /var/lib/samba that was when it worked. The file in /var/lib/samba has a different name to the on etc/samba/16:07
scoundrel50I am totally confused now16:07
scoundrel50I dont know, all I know is what I was doing yesterday, what what I was told to do. Can somebody tell me, in etc/samba/ what you have in there,16:09
scoundrel50I have 7 files and a directory16:14
scoundrel50ok, strange that this is, where I have added the smb.conf file to .var/lib/samba/ it has the workgroup ATLANTIS in there, in /etc/samba/ it whas workgroup in there.16:16
scoundrel50as the workgroup16:16
MartijnVdSscoundrel50: you usually don't have to touch /var/lib/samba "by hand"16:17
MartijnVdSconfig files go in /etc16:17
scoundrel50but I cant get the get this computer to open up the netbooks shares16:17
scoundrel50Its only what i did that somebody from here told me to do yesterday16:17
scoundrel50I dont have a clue, I wouldnt have know where to look16:18
scoundrel50whatever happened, I can view this computer, using ATLANTIS as the workgroup, which is found in the /var/lib/samba bit16:19
scoundrel50ok, so what do I do now?16:19
Synth_samwhat do you mean? you're sorted aren't you? you can see your files?16:21
scoundrel50I can now see this computers files, from the netbook, but not the netbook from here, I can see the folders, but I cant log in16:21
scoundrel50it wont accept my details16:22
scoundrel50which is what i been trying to tell you,16:23
* brobostigon returns16:23
MartijnVdSRun away! It's brobostigon! :)16:24
MartijnVdS(hi :P)16:24
MartijnVdSonly 20 hours left until my 20km run (first official "race"/event)16:24
brobostigonhi MartijnVdS :)16:24
MartijnVdS^ that's the route16:26
=== Guest63306 is now known as LjL-Temp
=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest92789
g5236m!EBrarian The Three Investigators 13 - The Secret of the Crooked Cat (US) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.28 MiB16:35
g5236m!EBrarian The Three Investigators 14 - The Mystery of the Coughing Dragon (UK) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.10 MiB16:35
lubotu3`Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)16:35
g5236m!EBrarian The Three Investigators 14 - The Mystery of the Coughing Dragon (US) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.30 MiB16:35
lubotu3`Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)16:35
lubotu3`Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)16:35
brobostigonMartijnVdS: good luck, :)16:36
DJones!piracy | g5236m16:38
lubotu3`g5236m: piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o16:38
mgdmDJones: I suspect it's a bot16:39
DJonesmgdm: I doubt it, its aimed at a channel on undernet16:39
lubotu3`This is not a file sharing channel (or network); be sure to read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type « /msg ubottu !bot »16:42
* Myrtti ponders16:42
Baikonurlubotu3`: you're not ubottu, your'e lubotu3`16:43
lubotu3`Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)16:43
shaunoI've tried that line at work.  didn't get me far.16:44
Baikonurapostrophe's are hard16:46
scoundrel50workgroups for shares, do they have to be the same for all computers, such as the main computer is ATLANTIS, will I need to change the workgroup of the netbook to ATLANTIS as well, if so, how can I open it to change it.16:51
* brobostigon is having bad luck with natty today, ireevocable full screen graphics atricfacts, ireetrieveable only by reboot. :(16:59
DJonesOh dear, this might cause some complaints https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-buttons-go/17:03
bigcalmFear change!17:07
MartijnVdSbigcalm: fear annoying change17:07
MartijnVdS("stop telling me how to use my computer")17:08
bigcalmI wonder what KDE looks like these days17:11
mgdmI used to run KDE for one month in six to see what it was up to17:11
mgdmI've not done that for a while17:12
kirrusCan anyone check I'm not being stupid with this regex.. I need to match this format "/2010/03/03/blarg/" as briefly as possible.. is this correct? "^\/20.\/$"17:13
scoundrel50Just got to say, thanks to those who helped, I have now got it working........17:14
HazRPGah shoot I must have missed cbx33317:24
HazRPGhi all17:24
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=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest57979
shaunomornin HazRPG17:33
HazRPGshauno: indeed ^^17:33
HazRPGhmm, just downloaded a few demos for the c64... which I'm assuming based on the history I read were coded by individuals who owned c64's, and just decided to colab. together...17:38
HazRPGbut I can't seem to get it to play any the other info off the disk17:38
HazRPGI can only see the intro17:38
* HazRPG keyboard mashes all keys17:39
mgdmin a lot of cases the intros *were* the demos17:40
DJonesIn a lot of cases, the demos were better than the game :)17:40
bigcalmmgdm: been having a look at symfony recently?17:42
mgdmbigcalm: Oh heck no - someone else pointed me at it17:43
HazRPGits just under the "contents" show several different things for the disk images, I just assumed there would be more on them17:43
mgdmwith quotes like that I'm not likely to be a user ;)17:43
bigcalmI think who ever wrote that missed the point17:43
bigcalmOne weirdo does not make a project17:43
mgdmthat's the project's official documentation17:43
mgdmand it's not just that17:44
mgdmHazRPG: LOAD "$",817:44
mgdmif you're using a proper C64 or an emulator, that'll get you the disk directory17:44
mgdmthen choose the file you want and do LOAD "FILENAME",8,117:44
* mgdm is having flashbacks to a happy time17:44
mgdmLOAD "*",8,1 just loads the first thing on the disk, which is what I suspect happened17:45
mgdmof course, I could be missing the point :)17:45
HazRPGhmm, LOAD "$",817:46
HazRPGshows nothing17:46
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HazRPGwell at least this demo tells you how to switch the song :)17:55
HazRPGmgdm: I'm guessing these demo use to be on floppies?17:56
mgdmor shared via BBSes17:57
HazRPGoriginal floppy or 3.5?17:57
mgdm5.25", which is neither17:57
DJonesIf they were C64, I would expect they were on cassette tape originally17:58
mgdmeither or17:58
mgdmthe C64 had both17:58
DJonesMine only ever had the cassette brick17:58
HazRPGhmm, didn't realise there was 5.25" floppies17:58
* bigcalm suddenly feels old17:59
HazRPGI'm sure I have norton on an 8"17:59
mgdmDJones: I got a 1541 fairly late on17:59
mgdmHazRPG: 5.25 were the most common before 3.517:59
mgdm8" was older and far rarer17:59
DJonesmgdm: I'd possibly switched to an Apple II by that point18:00
HazRPGhmm, I only ever saw 8" and 3.5"18:00
DJonesHazRPG: The Apple II's used 5.25 floppies by default18:01
HazRPGmgdm: BBSes?18:01
mgdmSheesh, you're a young'un18:01
HazRPGDJones: ah, I never saw the Apple II18:01
mgdmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system :)18:01
DJonesWith the 14.4K modem if you were lucky :)18:02
mgdmI never had a modem18:02
HazRPGmy first experience with the internet was in the 90's18:02
mgdmI didn't think the Apple II was that common in the UK18:03
HazRPGor even a modem for that matter18:03
mgdmwell, so was mine18:03
DJonesmgdm: I knew quite a few peple with them, plus the college I was at  used them as the main computer equipment18:04
* HazRPG recalls the fun of connecting directly to someone's PC via a modem :)18:04
mgdmOur schools had BBC Micros and Masters :)18:04
HazRPGmgdm: so did ours :)18:04
DJonesthey weren't released at the tim18:04
DJonesProbably the end of my 2nd year at college before they were released18:05
HazRPGman I miss the good ol' days18:07
HazRPGseems I missed a lot back in the home computer days18:11
HazRPGprobably why I like irc too much, first thing I really used when internet started becoming wide-spread18:12
HazRPGanyone here ever used a web-crawler?18:14
* bigcalm hates spiders18:17
* popey chomps his graze box18:18
popeyand the contents :)18:18
bigcalmOff to Wolverhampton for chinese buffet in a bit. Must resist graze nibbling18:18
popeyooo, which chinese?18:18
popeythe big one?18:18
popeyin the town centre18:19
bigcalmIt's our fave18:19
bigcalmThe Imperial18:19
popeydidnt realise you lived near wolves18:19
popeythats it18:19
popeybeen there a few times now18:19
bigcalmAbout 30 min drive from here18:19
popeywhere are you?18:19
bigcalmNearish to Telford18:19
popeyooooo, i want chinese now!18:20
bigcalmHehe :P18:20
bigcalmI've never been to Holyhead, I wonder if Hayley would be up for a drive tomorrow :)18:22
bigcalmNope, work to do. Ho hum18:26
bigcalmpopey: did you break mc?18:27
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=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest83456
shaunokinda given up on mc again until it gets an update that doesn't crash non-stop :(18:29
bigcalmWow, that sucks18:30
popeybigcalm: i saw a tweet that the login server is now up18:30
popeywhich implies it was down18:30
shauno11821 Segmentation fault      java -Xms2G -Xmx2G -jar MinecraftLauncher.jar18:30
shaunoapparently the last session I have logged lasted 45 seconds before it died18:30
bigcalmTried a different java?18:31
bigcalmre that is18:31
MyrttiI hadn't even realised that the new launcher even works18:31
shaunoI'm on osx .. I don't believe there's many options for java18:31
shaunothere may be an su^WOracle-blessed dist somewhere rather than the vendor one, but I'd rather not break stuff I have that does work18:33
daubersshauno: Oracle redirects you to the Apple Update service :)18:36
daubersshauno: Real PITA with the supermicro IPMI stuff, as you end up in a loop going backward and forward18:36
HazRPGhaha this demo is mega18:37
shaunoglad I haven't tried that then.  the vendor package works fine with the package I use at work, so I leave it alone :)18:37
HazRPGalthough there a few samples of grease in this18:37
HazRPGwere most of the demos seriously made by the Swedish, or have I just come across a site where they uploaded to?18:43
MyrttiI've got the dandelion burdock sodastream concentrate - but I'm not at my sisters (who has the machine)18:44
MyrttiNEEEDDDD D&B18:44
HazRPGMyrtti: wow your has a sodastream machine :o18:44
Myrttiyeah, she has been working as a bouncer at the local football club and they don't get paid with money - they get stuff from the football team sponsors18:45
Myrttiso she bought the most expensive sodastream machine the local white goods merchant had18:46
Myrttiwith the gift certificate she got18:46
Myrttioh well, perhaps I'll just have some strawberry-rhubarb cordial18:46
Synth_samHi all18:47
mgdmhave you made fizzy milk yet?18:47
Synth_samThink I've managed to get Irssi sorted18:47
mgdmI can't believe I missed that trick when i had one when I was younger18:47
Myrttimgdm: doesn't it go sour?18:48
mgdmNot sure, never tried18:48
Myrtticarbon dioxide is known as "carbonic acid" as well in Finnish...18:49
Myrttiespecially when it's dissolved into water18:49
Synth_samMyrtti: carbonic acid is carbon dioxide dissolved in water (it creates acid)18:50
MyrttiSynth_sam: carbon dioxide ice is called carbonic acid ice here18:50
Synth_samyes, because it's ice with carbonic acid in it18:51
Myrtti*shrug* live and learn18:51
Synth_samcarbon dioxide reacts with water in an equilibrium18:51
Synth_samwater and carbon dioxide on one side, carbonic acid on the other18:51
Synth_sam(I'm a Chemist, if you hadn't guessed)18:51
* daubers waits for the chicken to come out of he oven18:51
MyrttiI used to love chemistry at school but I sucked in maths18:52
Synth_samI'm doing a PhD, so the maths has calmed down again18:52
Myrttiso I moved away from my plan of physics and chemistry and moved over to biology and history :-P18:52
Myrtti(and ended up being a computer geek)18:52
Myrttioh well18:53
Synth_samhaha, yeah, that's my hobby ;)18:53
Myrttibah, I need to fix my webcam again with sugru, my first hack didn't quite work out18:54
Synth_samwho's the webcam made by?18:54
MyrttiI have no idea, it's Skype branded18:55
MyrttiI've made little hooks on the feet to keep the rubber band in place18:55
Synth_sammeh, I've got a logitech one, the quality in ubuntu is terrible18:56
Synth_samit's Quickcam pro 900018:56
Synth_samcan get 720p in windows, but just seems to work a lot worse in ubuntu18:56
dauberschicken out! Just needs to rest for 15 minutes18:58
Myrttihttp://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5499672993/ :->18:59
Synth_samand we moan about the amount of snow we had this winter....19:00
Myrttiyeah, we have to plough the roofs of some buildings here19:00
Myrttithis year people have actually gotten killed by snow dropping from the roof :-(19:00
zleapHazRPG, hi,  sent you cd's yesterday,  sorry for the delay been busy19:01
HazRPGzleap: you sent me CD's?19:02
zleapyeah, er i think it was you, we chatted a whole back19:02
zleapsaid i would send you a ubuntu cd19:02
HazRPGzleap: hmm... cumbria?19:02
zleapthink so19:02
HazRPGwow, didn't realise I'd given my address to anyone :S19:03
zleapi think it was you anyway19:03
zleapsent em yesterday19:03
HazRPGokay, I always thought the "fire" button was CTRL or SPACEBAR19:06
HazRPGwhat button does this game want me to press >_<19:06
HazRPGwhat is "fire" button >_<19:06
shaunothe red one on the joystick :)19:06
mgdmmight be enter19:07
mgdmdepends on your emulator's setup19:07
Synth_samzleap: hi19:12
zleaphows you19:12
Synth_sampretty good, drinking champagne, you?19:12
HazRPGshauno: I don't know how I forgot that, shows the last time I cracked open any of my old machines19:13
zleaprelaxing,  got back from a lug meet an hour ago19:13
HazRPGSynth_sam: linux user group19:14
Synth_samthat makes sense :)19:14
zleapLinux is slowly getting around19:15
zleapesp ubuntu,19:15
Synth_samyeah, I finally made the jump at 9.1019:15
Synth_samhaven't looked back19:15
Synth_samwell, still have to use windows at work for some things19:16
HazRPGshauno: well this sucks, I can't get it so play the game19:16
HazRPGI thought selecting the numpad would have given me something, but it hasn't19:17
zleapyeah  thats a case in a lot of places,  its the next upgrade cyclke you can look in to where windows can be replaced19:17
HazRPGwas really looking forward to playing Metal Warrior19:17
Synth_samzleap: yeah, unfortunately, there is some proprietary software for controlling analytical instruments that can't be replaced19:17
HazRPGSynth_sam: you might be surprised ;)19:18
zleapah so very specialist19:18
Synth_samYeah, I'm a Synthetic Chemist19:18
zleapi would have thought that linux would be better in a critical environment19:18
HazRPGSynth_sam: nice :)19:18
Synth_samThere are linux versions of some of them, but they're quite expensive19:18
zleapfrom the people that make the equipment19:18
zleapah,  typical eh19:19
Synth_samand the university has licenses for the windows software19:19
HazRPGSynth_sam: I use to enjoy chemistry at school, but they wouldn't allow me to pursue it because they felt my computing skills was better in Saudi :/19:19
* zleap likes chem too19:20
Synth_samI liked chemistry before I did a degree in it19:20
Synth_samnothing better to make you tired of it19:20
Synth_sambut I liked the practical side19:20
HazRPGyeah I did a degree in computing, wish I'd left it as a hobby19:20
zleapme too19:20
Synth_samhaha, funny how that works19:21
bigcalmThis is why I didn't consider photography as a job19:21
HazRPGSynth_sam: don't get me wrong, I love working with computers, but I'd rather I hadn't done a degree in it19:21
HazRPGwell HND*19:21
Synth_samHazRPG: the problem I had with the degree was the amount of maths19:22
Synth_samChemistry is fun until you start studying the Schrodinger equation19:22
MyrttiI could be a potter.19:22
Synth_sam(Quantum mechanics)19:22
zleapi thought that was more physics19:22
MyrttiI'm still bitter I went for the mediatechnology instead of it19:22
HazRPGI love the theories about Quantum mechanics, but I don't think I could ever get my head around them19:23
zleapi have heard of that,l  is that about a cat in a box adn it being half dead or half alive19:23
Synth_samzleap: It helps to understand the fundamentals to be able to apply them.  It's Chemical Physics, or Physical Chemistry19:23
Synth_samNow my maths go about as far as calculating quantities for reactions19:24
Synth_sammuch better19:24
zleapsame here i think19:24
zleaphi issyl019:24
cbx333hey there everyone19:24
zleaphi cbx33319:24
Synth_samhi cbx33319:24
=== issyl0 is now known as Guest20283
HazRPGcbx333: welcome back :)19:24
Guest20283Hi zleap!19:25
zleaphows you19:25
HazRPGcbx333: noticed your comments earlier this morning when I got up this afternoon xD19:25
cbx333hi zleap, Synth_sam, HazRPG19:25
nigelbGuest20283: hey, interesting blog post19:25
cbx333I'm thinking of adding a new section - will put it up on the wiki19:25
=== Guest20283 is now known as issyl0
HazRPGcbx333: I'm guessing ali1234 mentioned me in his git fork?19:25
HazRPGcbx333: or did you check the logs?19:25
nigelbissyl0: You're not the only person I've known going through that kind of hell ;)19:26
zleapi need to do more on the forums19:26
cbx333i didn't see you mentioned19:26
cbx333just checked the logs now19:26
HazRPGcbx333: ah, its just you said thanks for the input to me and ali1234.19:27
issyl0nigelb: heh, thanks.19:27
cbx333ahh yeh19:27
HazRPGcbx333: was wondering how you saw I'd done any input when I hadn't uploaded anything yet19:27
cbx333i meant the "other" input19:27
nigelbissyl0: At least that explains why I see you less on IRC.  College.19:27
HazRPGcbx333: ah19:27
issyl0nigelb: well, kind of.  Not that there's much to do at college, as you've read, but yes, that is one reason.  :-)19:28
HazRPGcbx333: well, I don't know what ali put down, but shauno, ali and I thought the page number scheme is a bit iffy - but couldn't work out latex to change it19:28
issyl0nigelb: PM?19:28
nigelbissyl0: sure :)19:28
zleaplol http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx has 107 errors19:28
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cbx333I'll figure it out if you tell me what you want to do19:29
=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest97443
HazRPGcbx333: did a bit of a play with it and managed to get it to change, but it would error our other parts of it, so we figured it'd be best if we just mentioned it to you - but I'm guessing the book was more important then the formatting of it at the moment :P19:29
Synth_samzleap: 107 errors where?19:29
zleapran  it through the validator (W3 .ORG(19:29
cbx333all input is good input19:30
zleapor maybe its due to it being an asp rather than html page19:30
Synth_samyou have to think, microsoft designed IE, they shouldn't be trusted with the internet19:30
HazRPGcbx333: well from what I can see, if you change {memoir} to {article} it changes the page numbers to a better format, however like I said when I compiled the book back to pdf, it sort of came up with a few errors on compile time (but hitting enter would make it continue)19:30
HazRPGand the pdf looked funny for the first few pages19:31
HazRPGcbx333: if I figure it out, I'll fork and upload it :)19:31
HazRPGcbx333: its just strange to have the pages numbered alternating left and right, and then on the bottom for chapters19:32
Synth_samHazRPG cbx333: what's the LaTeX file?19:32
zleapjust tried validator on w3.org all ok19:33
HazRPGespecially if its going to be distributed as pdf (most will probably have it on their ebook reader)19:33
HazRPGbut even on print it will look odd if your looking for a specific page19:33
HazRPGSynth_sam: hold on19:33
HazRPGSynth_sam: gitt.tex19:34
HazRPGif you change {memoir} to {article} it puts all the page numbers at the bottom19:34
HazRPGbut I'm not sure if using article as a template messes up a few other things on that LaTeX file19:34
Synth_samHazRPG: What document are you referring to, I have no point of reference.19:34
HazRPGSynth_sam: https://github.com/cbx33/gitt19:35
Synth_samnm, google solved that19:35
cbx333https://github.com/cbx33/gitt/wiki - HazRPG, see my new comments about After Hours sections19:37
cbx333I want to give the reader steps to take it further if they want to19:37
cbx333all in one place19:37
cbx333I think it's important that they understand the technical mechanisms19:37
cbx333HazRPG, I will look at the page numbering19:38
cbx333tbph once I had a PDF that looked a little like the odt I had, fonts etc....I kinda stopped working on the LaTeX itself19:38
cbx333but I would like to put some little icons in the breakout boxes19:38
cbx333and shade them lightly with a grey percentage19:38
cbx333lemme add that to the TODOs19:38
cbx333feel free to raise an "issue" on github about the page numbering19:39
HazRPGcbx333: looks good to me :)19:39
cbx333it can be like John's over the weekend reading :)19:40
cbx333I would call extra curricular activity19:40
brobostigonhas anyone experienced this in natty, when the whole screen would turn into one huge graphical artifact, its happened severaltimes today, and i canonly recover, by forceing reboot via pwer button.19:40
cbx333but that could be taken several ways19:40
cbx333now lemme delve into the page numbering19:41
HazRPGcbx333: sure no problem I will :)19:41
bigcalmbrobostigon: can you ssh into the laptop from another machine and reboot from there?19:41
HazRPGcbx333: yeah I do like the after hours idea :)19:42
brobostigonbigcalm: i havent tried that yet.19:42
cbx333HazRPG, interesting - in my version, the page numbers are always centered on every page19:42
cbx333lemme do a fresh git clone and try19:42
brobostigonbigcalm: i will get my n800 and connect it up, so when it happpens, i will try and restart xorg.19:43
cbx333I think there is a difference19:43
HazRPGcbx333: check the link I PM'ed you with19:43
HazRPGcbx333: hmm, so are you doing this in odt and saving as latex?19:44
cbx333no no19:44
cbx333I started the book in odt19:44
brobostigonbigcalm: ok, i will try that next time it hapens.19:44
cbx333HazRPG, ahhh yes i see your problem19:44
cbx333what happens if you run the make pdf a second time19:45
cbx333I have noticed that if you only run it once, the ToC isn't created for a start19:45
cbx333it may be that a second run fixes the header too19:45
HazRPGcbx333: hmm, I'll give that a try19:45
Myrttior you can run tex for the first and pdf for the second19:45
Myrttifaster that way19:46
cbx333Myrtti, I am still new to tex19:46
cbx333but that makes sense19:46
HazRPGcbx333: ah, see this is where the problem starts I get this error on make pdf "! LaTeX Error: File `fullpage.sty' not found."19:46
* Myrtti has worked with latex professionally for a year few years back19:46
HazRPGand it asks for a filename19:46
HazRPGto which I just hit enter19:47
zleapyou need to add tyhe style to the latex preable19:47
cbx333mine doesn't have that19:47
cbx333gotta go put hte little one to bed19:47
cbx333mine compiles without any errors19:47
cbx333what ubuntu you on?19:47
cbx333I'm on 10.1019:47
cbx333need to see what other packages for tex i have installed19:47
zleaplol @ the microsoft website being run through w3c validator19:47
HazRPGcbx333: 10.1019:47
HazRPGI apt-get texlive19:48
ali1234cbx333: i have some general notes on my thoughts while reading the book so far19:48
zleapi got texlive with the uk tug membership19:48
cbx333ali1234, can ya pm me.....only cos I'm going afk for a little while to bath the little one19:48
cbx333it seems I have a large number of tex packages19:49
cbx333HazRPG, I'll give ya a list when i get back19:49
HazRPGzleap: I thought texlive was free/foss19:49
zleapit is19:49
cbx333maybe do an packages.ubuntu.com search for that file19:49
zleapbut you get a copy when you join the uk tex user group19:49
cbx333and also - maybe we should take this to a different channel - don't want to go too off topic for people19:49
zleapthere should be a latex channel19:49
HazRPGMyrtti: is that the channel, or is that the file I might be missing?19:51
* mgdm launches whoever patched Maverick's GCC into space19:52
penguin42what's it doing to you?19:53
mgdmactually it's probably openCV that is failing, by using a fragile version detection thing19:53
HazRPGMyrtti: thanks :)19:54
zleaphi MadLeomon19:55
Myrttiwhen I was doing latex stuff I found the file listings for packages a lifesaver19:55
Myrttithat, or apt-file19:55
Synth_samcbx333: I just built that file and page numbers are centred19:56
mgdmMyrtti: Oh yeah, I remember that19:57
Synth_samgives a lot of badbox errors and warnings about obsolete options19:57
penguin42Myrtti: apt-file is great19:59
* bigcalm skips off to Wolverhampton for Chinese buffet :D19:59
Myrttidamnit 50320:00
shaunoanyone know how to get firefox to stop using F5 for refresh?20:01
Synth_samshauno: not off the top of my head, F5 is pretty standard for refresh, what's the issue?20:02
shaunoit claims ^R is the shortcut, and I have F5 bound elsewhere20:03
shaunobut ff is capturing it as refresh :/20:03
cbx333yeh Synth_sam I got a lot of warnings too20:08
cbx333not too sure how to deal with them20:08
cbx333not overly happy with some of the hyphenation either20:08
Synth_sammicrotype is pretty good for that20:09
Synth_samallows adjustment of intraword spacing20:10
HazRPGcbx333: ah yes... nevermind, ignore my issue - seems it was because I was missing a package20:10
HazRPGMyrtti: again thanks :)20:10
HazRPGthis looks so much nicer20:11
cbx333can you tell me what package so I can add it to the instructions20:11
cbx333thanks Myrtti20:12
HazRPGmight be worth putting on the "Building the Book" section that you need texlive and texlive-latex-extra20:12
cbx333Myrtti, can you tell me the best way to modify the make file to do the tex bit first, and then the pdf generation so it orks first time20:12
HazRPGoh, seems you've already asked that :P20:12
cbx333just about to do that20:12
Myrtticbx333: I ended up doing a script that does it all because I ran latex2html and stuff too20:13
ali1234cbx333: add a dependency on the tex target to the pdf target20:13
cbx333i don't have a tex target :)20:15
cbx333that's probably the issue20:15
cbx333you know I can't even remember the command to just build the tex now20:16
=== denny- is now known as denny
cbx333if i run it with latex i get an error20:18
cbx333cannot determine size of graphic20:19
cbx333no bounding box20:19
cbx333darn it20:19
Synth_samyou have pdf images20:19
Myrttiyou can ignore some of the errors20:19
cbx333i do - to keep the pdf size down20:19
cbx333and make them scale nicely20:19
Myrttiif it finishes the run without breaking with errors20:19
cbx333ahh i see20:19
cbx333anyway to force it to ignore those errors?20:19
Myrttiit stops if the errors are fatal20:20
Synth_samyou can't have pdf images with latex can you? I thought that you could only have eps and ps with latex20:20
Myrttijpg and png are ok in pdf20:20
HazRPGshauno: what was it you said I needed to work on for my chiptune?20:20
Synth_samMyrtti: yes, pdflatex is more forgiving, but what are the filetypes for latex?20:21
cbx333Synth_sam, well I have them and it seems to work20:21
Synth_samI'd just heard that before20:21
Synth_sammy bad20:21
Synth_samI'd try the microtype package with the pdf20:21
Synth_samit will probably reduce the amount of hyphenation at line-ends20:22
Synth_samI'd run it myself and let you know, but I'm updating my texlive at the moment20:22
cbx333ahh ok20:23
cbx333pdflatex seems to recompile the tex anyway, is that right Myrtti20:23
HazRPGoh wow, c64 has netplay :o20:23
Myrttithe latex run is only so that it makes the auxiliary files for the actual pdflatex run20:23
Myrttiso that the pdflatex has the files for making the toc and stuff20:24
Myrttiif you can ignore the image errors - perhaps by forcing latex to ignore the filetype, the pdflatex will still work20:24
Myrttiit's been a while since I've worked with latex though20:24
Baikonuronly latex i work with is pants20:25
Baikonurno, wait20:25
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=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest76458
cbx333thanks again all for your help20:31
cbx333really appreciated20:31
cbx333I hope this week I can start banging out some more large sections of text20:31
Synth_samcompiled with microtype20:31
Synth_samwill upload now20:31
Myrttijust as long you don't upload the compiled latex on the vcs :-D20:32
* Myrtti facepalmed several times at work for a clueless workmate doing it over and over and over again20:33
Myrttiand when I complained, she uploaded the zip files containing the pdf20:33
cbx333yeh that's why i don't do anything like that20:33
cbx333Synth_sam, looks good20:34
Synth_samcbx333: no hyphenation in the first 20 pages at least20:34
cbx333that's cool20:35
cbx333Synth_sam, see my pm20:35
Synth_samI just added /usepackage[final]<microtype> to the preamble20:36
cbx333what changes did that introduce20:37
cbx333the lack of hyphenation?20:37
cbx333HazRPG, did the headers and page numbers disappear after your extra installation?20:38
Synth_samcbx333: it allows pdflatex to change the spaces betweeen letters in words with more control, so in general, it won't need to hyphenate20:38
Synth_samright, I'm off, ttyl20:39
shaunogood lord, have they not taken that 'file sharing' thread out back and shot it yet?20:39
HazRPGcbx333: yes, it did :)20:40
HazRPGcbx333: I must say, I do like the book - keep meaning to learn how to use git properly20:40
HazRPGI've only ever used it for cloning out stuff with TortoiseGit20:41
HazRPGbut I do have projects in mind, and would like them hosted on such sites for others to help pitch in :)20:41
HazRPGshauno: ?20:44
shaunothere's a thread on the mailing list that needs to be put out of it's misery :)20:47
HazRPGshauno: ah21:01
* HazRPG goes to look21:01
HazRPGshauno: isn't there another way to share files on linux then using samba?21:03
* HazRPG recalls something about ssh21:03
daftykinsHazRPG: sshfs ?21:09
daftykinsalso, hi ^_^21:09
=== zatan_ is now known as zatan
cbx333HazRPG, yeh, i mean that's the whole reason for writing it - I want to show it being used in a practical environment - I find a lot of the time, I'll read a technical book and forget how to do pretty much everything I read21:14
daubersHazRPG: nfs :)21:16
daftykinsfwiw, though it may not surprise anyone, windows 7 is utterly useless as a file server :>21:17
HazRPGcbx333: it is a great idea :)21:17
HazRPGdaftykins: that's the one21:17
HazRPGdaubers: nfs?21:17
daftykinsthough i don't really agree with SSHFS, depending upon what someone's trying to achieve21:17
daubersFor sharin files in Linux21:18
HazRPGdaftykins: doesn't surprise me tbh21:18
daftykinsit might be my hardware, but when saturating gigabit (as in actually 120MB/sec+) it still makes the 'server' service go a bit wobbly sometimes21:18
daubersdaftykins: I'm surprised you can get as high as 120MB/s on Gigabit, highest I've seen is 11721:21
shaunoI don't tend to think of sshfs as being a permenant fixture21:21
daftykinsdaubers: yeah, SSD -> gigabit LAN -> 3ware RAID 521:22
daftykinsand back again21:22
daftykinseasy peasy21:23
daubersdaftykins: I've gone 16 disk raid6 -> 16 disk raid6 and get 117 ish max21:23
daftykinsmight just be the Windows numbers i see then21:24
daftykinsit's not consistent21:24
daubersfair enough21:24
daftykinsit goes 110-12521:24
daubersThat'll be Windows doing it's standard amount of lying then :)21:24
daftykinslets have a go right now21:24
daftykinsfo sho ^_^21:24
daftykins122, 137, 120. 112, 119...21:25
daubersTheoretical peak is 125MB/s, so unless you're running with no overhead, I somehow doubt thats possible :)21:25
daftykinsyeah you're about right then for an average21:25
daftykinsi see your point but it's a little nitpicky ;)21:25
daubersdaftykins: Sorry, thats my job though :p21:26
daftykinsi've not really pushed the guy's 12TB RAID6 one21:26
daftykinsi was only just around there for the first time yesterday, in weeks21:26
daubersI spent that a few months trying to get from an average of 117 to 119, and just about achieved it by cheating a little, so would have been damn impressed if you could best it21:26
daftykinsas the IT teaching i'm doing to help out is thieving my time21:26
daubersI've got 8 of the new intel SSDs turning up soon21:28
daubersSomeone wants to do 2k format video editing on shared storage21:28
daubersSo he can use ~128 spinny disks, or 8 2.5" SSDs :)21:29
daftykinsactually the media department at my college want something soon21:29
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=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest20141
daftykinsi think they want to try and do some shared editing21:31
daftykinsanywho, mates over, bbl21:31
=== minimec is now known as cocos
shaunonow this is starting to get confusing.  trying to figure out how to remove the 'launchpad' icon from 10.7's dock.  ubuntu's dominating the google results :)21:36
daubersdaftykins: Get them to give me a ring if they get stuck :)21:37
ali1234shauno: have you tried clicking the icon with "ctrl-alt-cmd" pressed? (whatever that means)21:46
ali1234shauno: or this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=110426321:47
* brobostigon Haz chocolate buttons, :)21:48
penguin42classic mac, 3 keys held and a mouse button21:48
penguin42brobostigon: Oooh21:48
shaunoali1234: yeah, it just keeps coming back on it's own :(21:48
shaunothink that one's going on radar, 'tis a bit pants21:50
shaunoit was more the namespace collision that I found interesting tho21:50
* brobostigon noms and make agreeable noises.21:51
* HazRPG grumbles22:10
HazRPGeither this document is too old and doesn't work with the most current version, or I'm doing something terribly wrong :/22:10
HazRPGD0y should change the volume with y = number from 0-9, but its not working :S22:11
HazRPGbrobostigon: oh hi :)22:12
HazRPGah seems I was using it wrong22:12
brobostigonHazRPG: evening, :)22:13
HazRPG...but its setting the volume for ALL channels22:13
* HazRPG grumbles more22:13
HazRPGbrobostigon: :)22:13
HazRPGmust be a way to make something sound lower22:14
brobostigonfrequency lower?22:15
HazRPGyeah I'm messing with sustain/release to see if that does it22:15
HazRPGooo, yeah :D22:15
HazRPGBB works better than FF :D22:15
brobostigonBB ?22:15
HazRPGhex codes22:17
HazRPGSustain/Release: BB22:18
HazRPGI had it set to FF originally22:18
HazRPGalthough the problem now is that although its lower, the tone fades away quicker22:18
HazRPGmaybe BF might be better22:18
HazRPGbrobostigon: messing with GoatTracker22:19
brobostigonHazRPG: i admit to be somewhat clueless.22:19
HazRPGbrobostigon: GoatTracker is in the repo :)22:19
HazRPGits an old c64 tracker22:19
HazRPGto make songs :)22:19
HazRPGin old-school form :)22:19
* HazRPG likes chiptunes22:20
HazRPGbrobostigon: if you wanna try it out, I can send you the tutorial/manual type thing I managed to find (after several hours of digging)22:21
HazRPGbrobostigon: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64 is what I have so far22:22
brobostigonHazRPG: maybe another day, iam quite tired.22:22
HazRPGI've put the tutorial in that directory for you, so you can nab it from there :)22:23
brobostigonHazRPG: could you remind me earlier inanother dayplease. my brain is scrambld.22:23
brobostigonthank you.22:23
HazRPGyeah no problem :)22:23
brobostigonthank you, :)22:24
* HazRPG gives out free hugs22:24
* brobostigon hugs HazRPG 22:24
HazRPGalso put the sample songs I've managed to find when digging through the intersurf-highway, so that you can load them up and see how they did things too :) - but I'll remind you another night22:25
ali1234goattracker comes with examples in /usr/share/doc/goattracker/examples22:26
HazRPGali1234: wow, I really need to learn to look in there more often22:28
HazRPGstill not 100% keyed up on this whole thing yet22:28
HazRPGbut I haven't touched windows in the last 2 months now :)22:29
* HazRPG feels proud22:29
HazRPGmanaged to avoid it for a year before, but the minute I was back in for whatever reason at the time... I was stuck in there again (for some god forsaken reason)22:29
HazRPGalthough the difference between now and the last few times, I'm actually dedicated to learning the ins and outs of my system22:30
HazRPGI do plan to start coding for multi-platform too (or at least learn how to), etc22:31
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HazRPGpart of my new years resolution - better myself in the linux environment22:31
=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest36759
HazRPGali1234: thanks for the heads up22:34
zleapjust commented on a website for youg people that want to volunteer, if anyone can add to my comments feel free at http://www.vteamdevontorbay.org/v-is-coming-to-an-end/#comment-1522:37
HazRPGzleap: hi :)22:37
HazRPGwow, was there seriously no books published about the trackers in the 80's22:46
* HazRPG might be looking for the wrong thing22:46
HazRPGaudio trackers22:46
HazRPGfor c64, etc22:47
zleapspeccy user here :)22:47
zleapanyone up for single channel sound beep beep22:47
HazRPGzleap: it'll have had a tracker made for it at one point22:47
penguin42Model B here - 76489 yeh!22:48
zleapi did have a sound sampler once22:48
HazRPGsee I had a MZ-72122:48
HazRPG... sadly no one ever remembers those22:48
zleapand coded hey jude from a book then had to de bug the program from the book sio it played hey jude at ther right speed22:48
zleapcoding from books was fun22:49
zleapyeah played it too fast22:49
zleapit was also the first 2 lines of the song,22:49
zleapwhich given hey jude is actually quite long22:50
daftykinsdaubers: the funny part is IT support won't have anything to do with the departments that use Macs, so this technician guy is gonna do some of their IT side stuff, but the thing is he doesn't really work with computers, he only does the techniciany side of things behind media23:05
daftykinshe's planning on buying a mac mini as a directory services sorta server right now as he was telling me something about Apple stopping selling XServes or something 0o23:05
daftykinswhich is just a mistake imo23:06
daftykinsi've been tempted to get an ION 2 nettop for my third LCD again... hang it on the back maybe as a second system to permanently run Ubuntu23:12
daftykinsthis is hilarious to me, from the Apple website23:17
daftykinsregarding OS X Server on a mac mini23:17
daftykins"After selecting Mac mini with Snow Leopard Server, you can add up to 8GB of memory, external storage for RAID 5 data protection, Apple Remote Desktop software, an external SuperDrive, and other options."23:18
daftykinsbasically saying, after buying you can plug all this stuff into it externally, to make it act like a REAL server >_<23:18
ali1234yes, it clearly makes more sense to buy a dell server with windows or rhel and then spend 6 months and god knows how much money getting certified to use it23:23
AlanBellevening all23:25
cbx333right I think that's me out for the night - a large amount of changes to GITT tonight :)23:26
cbx333not done any proofing on it yet :)23:26
daftykinsali1234: err... actually my point is that it'd be better to get the Mac Pro server so components can be easily removed if found faulty.23:26
daftykinsi bet if the mac mini goes down, you're somewhat screwed23:27
ali1234well yeah23:27
daftykinsali1234: but of course you missed that, given you assumed my perspective :)23:27
ali1234same is true whether you have to send for a new video card, or a whole new machine23:27
daftykinsno because those things can be sourced locally in an emergency23:27
daftykinswhereas somewhere here, with no Apple store, is a tad out of reach23:28
ali1234really? they sell mac pro motherboards in your local PC shops?23:29
daftykinsok, on a saturday night i really can't be bothered with your nitpicking attitude23:29
ali1234i dunno why i said video card before... server doesn't need video card23:29
=== Guest36759 is now known as LjL-Temp
ali1234well, ok then, don't nitpick others if you don't like it23:32
=== LjL-Temp is now known as Guest51826
daftykinsyou're just covering up the fact that you assumed incorrectly to begin with23:33
ali1234and btw, original point still stands - if this was really mission critical stuff, it wouldn't be managed by somebody with no IT experience23:33
ali1234in which case it actually would make sense to do what i said instead of using macs23:34
daftykinsbut that was sarcasm...23:34
ali1234but since it's clearly not even been considered, it's clearly not important to have things like SLA23:34
daftykinsno, public sector in education, the IT department has free reign to sit on their hands23:35
daftykinsbut anyway, my original moan was that the guy considered a mac mini to run two departments off :D i don't think that's a good idea23:36
daftykinsfunny, you went quiet.23:43
ali1234in that guy's situation (ie i don't know how to diagnose PC hardware problems) i would do exactly the same thing23:43
daftykinswell, he has got some contact and advice from the IT support department that won't touch the macs23:44
daftykinsso hopefully they'll steer him sensibly23:44
daftykinsbut what about if you *do* know, you'd still say it's fine to have a tiny little SFF system running a 60+ client network?23:44
ali1234if they won't support a mac pro for him, then the logical choice is the mini23:44
daftykinsi'm not sure i follow23:45
daftykinsthey're not going to support either23:45
daftykinsso why buy one more susceptible to failure?23:45
ali1234who says the mini will be more susceptible to failure?23:47
* hamitron likes small devices for servers23:50
ali1234i'm going to assume he knows better than to run the thing sandwiched in between a dvd player and a skybox like most people probably do23:50
hamitroncheaper and when they break, just throw away23:51
hamitronbut a mac isn't cheap ;)23:51
daftykinsneither would the storage be that they acquire eventually for their video editing23:51
daftykinsit raises a good question though23:51
daftykinsi certainly don't know what solution i'd go with to cater for say, even one class of maybe 20-30 macs doing video editing23:52
daftykinsi'd advise sticking to local editing followed by copying back to a large RAID array really23:52
daftykinsbut even then it's less than ideal, conceptually23:52
hamitronlocal ftw23:53
hamitronpointless centralising, just to cause a headache23:53
daftykinsi was thinking of fragmentation + the wear and tear on a bunch of mechanical disks of a load of students editing directly from it23:54
hamitronthe thought makes me wanna cry :/23:54
daftykinsi was trying to put in my 2p, but the guy works on another site at the other end of the island, i only met him once in the restaurant23:55
ali1234editing from a central server is madness23:55
daftykinshaving catering students run a restaurant one floor down from your classrooms = win \o/23:55
ali1234you need specialist hardware for that23:55
daftykinshe did say something about 40 grand23:55
hamitrondo video editing tools work well remotely?23:56
hamitronnever had much to do with them23:56
mgdmthe video editing system at work is *insane*23:57
hamitronjust considering when the application is running on the server23:57
mgdmbut we are a TV station23:57
daftykinsmgdm: :O which one?23:57
daftykinsmgdm: any ideas what said system is like?23:57
hamitrontelevision X?23:57
mgdmhamitron: No.23:57
hamitronstaff discount?23:58
hamitronah, nvm23:58
mgdmdaftykins: expensive. Fast. :)23:58

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