[00:00] <|Dreams|> speed is 30% lower at least
[00:00] <|Dreams|> i moved home tech cudnt get old modem to work apperently
[00:00] <|Dreams|> so fitted this new bag of rubbishnes
[00:00] <nucc1> as i understand, you can buy your own cable modem.
[00:00] <|Dreams|> i was quite happy wit m old modem and my dd-wrt router
[00:01] <nucc1> the new one doesn't have ethernet ports?
[00:01] <|Dreams|> also has problems with multiple xbox 360s i have 5 in this house lol
[00:01] <nucc1> you can simply turn off the wireless, and route the internet to your own dd-wrt box.
[00:01] <|Dreams|> yes but i have 5 laptops in a three storey building
[00:02] <nucc1> you have a dd-wrt box, right?
[00:02] <|Dreams|> plus 2 s3's 5 xbox 360,s 2 wii's an a ds and two androids
[00:02] <nucc1> hook it up to the virgin box with a cable.
[00:02] <|Dreams|> ps3s***
[00:02] <nucc1> turn off the wireless on the virgin box, enable wireless on the dd-wrt
[00:02] <nucc1> and place it on the middle floor.
[00:03] <|Dreams|> yeah i thought of this but i am just pissed that they tryin to force ppl to use shit they make
[00:03] <nucc1> they don't force.
[00:03] <|Dreams|> quite annoyed actually
[00:03] <nucc1> they just capitalize on ignorance.
[00:03] <|Dreams|> they do to new customers
[00:04] <nucc1> as i understand, i could have declined the box if i knew i could use my own cable modem.
[00:04] <|Dreams|> there dlink 615 old cable modem was best offer n best combi they had in ages
[00:04] <|Dreams|> i told the tech i wanted my old modem
[00:04] <|Dreams|> he cudnt get it to work
[00:04] <|Dreams|> "apperently"
[00:05] <|Dreams|> i told him i had a dd-wrthe didnt even kno what it was lol
[00:05] <|Dreams|> wrt-he*
[00:05] <nucc1> you didn't need to give him any more information than "i want to use my own modem"
[00:05] <nucc1> and the mac address of said modem.
[00:07] <|Dreams|> rightly or not he had to put new modem/router in n i cant stick it going to phone them tomoz get new modem sent out been a customer 5 years and being spoon fed a shit router is not on
[00:07] <|Dreams|> i got 51mbps on my dd
[00:07] <|Dreams|> get 33 now
[00:08] <|Dreams|> they bringing out an option for it to be cable modem only in new update
[00:08] <|Dreams|> cant wait
[00:13] <HazRPG> hmm, well I think I've found one mistake already
[00:14] <HazRPG> page 9,  5th line in: “It appears that way.” Said John sullenly.
[00:37] <shauno> I know it's wrong in theory, but I usually stick full stops inside quotes now
[00:38] <shauno> the alternative just seems like invalid nesting
[00:38] <ali1234> my brother does copy editing among other things, apparently it depends on context
[00:40] <shauno> wouldn't surprise me, because I'd want a comma in that excerpt.  and .. that way"., said John .. can't possibly be correct
[00:40] <ali1234> right
[00:40] <ali1234> if the . or , is part of what you are quoting as in this case, it goes inside
[00:41] <ali1234> but if you're just using scare quotes around something at the end of the sentence, then it goes outside
[00:41] <ali1234> so it nearly always goes inside
[00:42] <ali1234> with exclamation mark it is even more obvious
[00:44] <HazRPG> oh, I was getting at the fact that it says "sullenly" instead of "suddenly"
[00:44] <ali1234> sullenly is fine?
[00:45] <HazRPG> oh?
[00:46] <HazRPG> ah, would seem so
[00:46] <ali1234> i think it said should not be capitalized though, and it should be a comma not a full stop
[00:46] <shauno> sullen fits, unless there's more context that's relevant
[00:47] <ali1234> is this the book about git?
[00:47] <HazRPG> ali1234: yup
[00:47] <ali1234> it's written like a novel?
[00:47] <ali1234> with like, characters?
[00:47] <HazRPG> yeah
[00:48] <ali1234> interesting, i will check it out
[00:48] <HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/ebook/gitt.pdf if you don't want to check it out from the git and convert it
[00:49] <HazRPG> see, now I think that either sullenly, or suddenly could be used in this context
[00:49] <HazRPG> just depends how he's trying to come accross
[00:49] <ali1234> they could, but they would mean totally different things
[00:50] <ali1234> is there a place to report bugs?
[00:50] <HazRPG> that's my point
[00:50] <HazRPG> he suggested just making a fork of it
[00:50] <ali1234> d and l are pretty far apart :)
[00:50] <ali1234> i don't know how to fix these bugs
[00:50] <HazRPG> d and l?
[00:50] <ali1234> but the page numbers are bouncing around all over the place, what's that about?
[00:50] <shauno> as I understand it, that's how git works.  you fork, make changes, and file a 'pull request' against the original
[00:51] <ali1234> i know how to use git :)
[00:51] <ali1234> i don't know how to write latex or whatever this is
[00:51] <HazRPG> yeah latex
[00:51] <HazRPG> latex is pretty simple - similar to other meta-type stuff
[00:52] <HazRPG> \chapter{chapter 1 or whatever}
[00:52] <HazRPG> \section{Sub title I think is what this is for}
[00:52] <HazRPG> etc
[00:52] <shauno> reading that, I think sullen is intended
[00:53] <shauno> syn. glum; dude's not happy because their work has been trashed
[00:53] <shauno> it's difficult to suddenly answer something you've been asked
[00:53] <HazRPG> but he's also angered, so he could be trying to say the statement quickly too though... so I guess either could be used really
[00:54] <shauno> that'd be sharp, not sudden :)
[00:54] <ali1234> unless... you're william... shatner
[00:54] <HazRPG> heh
[00:55] <HazRPG> well originally I didn't realise sullenly was a word - but well, makes sense if it is a word that this is the word the author intended to use
[00:56] <HazRPG> seems that there are latex WYSIWYG editors out there
[00:57] <HazRPG> I can understand why he's used latex instead of a document type though
[00:57] <ali1234> sure
[00:57] <HazRPG> since its in a git repo, its easier to see diff's
[00:57] <HazRPG> plus it can be exported in any format (just about) with ease
[00:58] <HazRPG> also, I think the page moving about is intended
[00:58] <shauno> and it was designed for typesetting, rather than secretaries
[00:58] <HazRPG> shauno: makes sense
[00:59] <HazRPG> ali1234: I think the reason the page moves about is because he's planning on publishing it... and the page numbers will look fine in printed form. Left page, page number on far left; right page, page number of the far right.
[01:00] <HazRPG> s/of/on
[01:00] <ali1234> sure
[01:00] <ali1234> sure. now explain page 7 to me :)
[01:00] <HazRPG> ali1234: oh, and page 5
[01:01] <HazRPG> didn't notice those
[01:01] <ali1234> it happens on first page of a chapter/week
[01:01] <shauno> having 5 low, 6 book'd and 7 low just looks .. funky
[01:01] <ali1234> probably intentional but... i don't like it... and i don't think i'd like it in print form either
[01:02] <shauno> I'd have to agree.  if I discover chapter 10 is on page 81 in the index, I'm flicking thru the numbers looking for 81
[01:02] <HazRPG> ali1234: could be how he wants it to be formed?
[01:02] <shauno> not the mysterious gap between 79 and 83
[01:02] <ali1234> right, exactly
[01:03] <shauno> agree that it's pretty subjective, but can see why it's jarring
[01:03] <HazRPG> does seem odd, but at least its consistently odd
[01:04] <HazRPG> because each chapter has the number on the bottom
[01:04] <HazRPG> easier to those who spit to find a chapter
[01:04] <HazRPG> s/spit/skip
[01:05] <HazRPG> don't know what's going on with my typing today :/
[01:05] <shauno> (paper-only consideration, it's also physically odd to flick thru the center of pages.  corners almost flick themselves)
[01:07] <shauno> probably something that's easy to toy with once it's done, so not a huge concern.  but since you bring it up :)
[01:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Thirty Years On - http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/05/thirty-years-on/
[01:08] <HazRPG> I was just looking through the latex code
[01:08] <HazRPG> seems there's no mention of pages, so it must be defined like that by default
[01:08] <shauno> it's probably inherited from a template
[01:11] <HazRPG> shauno: that does seem apparent
[01:11] <HazRPG> there's a gitt.toc file that seems to mention something about pages
[01:11] <shauno> \documentclass[a5paper,openright,12pt]{memoir}
[01:11] <shauno> the {memoir} bit
[01:12] <shauno> http://www.tex.ac.uk/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/memoir/memman.pdf  is memoir's manual, and also has the same numbering pattern
[01:12] <HazRPG> oh, I was thinking more: \chapternumberline
[01:12] <HazRPG> as seen here: \contentsline {chapter}{\chapternumberline {}Week 1}{7}{chapter.2}
[01:13] <HazRPG> seems only the chapters have \chapternumberline
[01:13] <HazRPG> could have something to do with that
[01:17] <HazRPG> shauno: actually, seems you are right ^^
[01:18] <HazRPG> I changed it to article
[01:18] <HazRPG> and now the pages are at the bottom, however the document is now... erm... messed up
[01:18] <HazRPG> guessing its because the rest of the document use memoir styled formatting, instead of article-based
[01:19] <HazRPG> mainly the ToC that seems to be messed up though
[01:19] <HazRPG> so doesn't seem like it would be hard to fix
[01:19] <shauno> I *think* if you put \aliaspagestyle{chapter}{simple} in gitt.tex, before \begin{document}
[01:20] <HazRPG> with the included {article} or {memoir} part?
[01:20] <shauno> still with memoir
[01:20] <ali1234> see this is why i don't do latex :)
[01:21] <shauno> I'm not quite OCD enough to go download 1.6Gb worth of mactex to find out :)
[01:21] <HazRPG> 1.6Gb?
[01:21] <shauno> mhm
[01:21] <HazRPG> the book is only 135.2 tar-ed
[01:22] <HazRPG> 135.2KB
[01:22] <shauno> yeah, but I don't have TeX installed
[01:22] <HazRPG> ah, I grabbed the smaller version
[01:22] <HazRPG> texlive-base I think it was
[01:23] <HazRPG> sorry just texlive
[01:23] <shauno> on the mac, I have two options.  a pkg with the entire kit & kaboodle, and whatever else the mac-tex-user-group thought they'd throw in there for sentimental value
[01:23] <shauno> or build it myself
[01:24] <HazRPG> ah, I forget your on a mac
[01:24] <HazRPG> my mistake
[01:25] <HazRPG> heh I give up
[01:25] <HazRPG> \aliaspagestyle{chapter}{simple} just made it even more messed up
[01:25] <shauno> sweet :)
[01:25] <HazRPG> now there's some pages with page numbers at the top xD
[01:25] <shauno> that's what I was aiming for
[01:26] <HazRPG> along with the other ones being at the bottom, and some at the left and right
[01:26] <HazRPG> so it looks really barmey now
[01:26] <shauno> two numbers on the same page?
[01:27] <HazRPG> nope, same as it was before - except the first page has it at the top (the blank page)
[01:27] <HazRPG> the page is also bigger
[01:27] <shauno> hm.  it shouldn't get bigger.  a5 is specified elsewhere
[01:27] <HazRPG> first page is bigger and has the number at the top
[01:27] <HazRPG> rest are still as-is
[01:28] <HazRPG> seems the first page is a4
[01:28] <shauno> that is odd.  the front page isn't a {chapter}, so the alias shouldn't touch it
[01:28] <HazRPG> also errors out on the make pdf
[01:28] <HazRPG> so could be why
[01:29] <shauno> oh well
[01:29] <shauno> so the lesson is that it is a global thing that just needs to be tweaked in one place
[01:29] <shauno> and that 3 minutes in the docs isn't enough to figure out where that one place is :)
[01:30] <HazRPG> yes :)
[01:30] <shauno> but that's the general idea.  {memoir} specifies a few different page styles
[01:30] <shauno> and then chapter, frontmatter, titlepage, etc are pointers to those styles
[01:30] <HazRPG> indeed
[01:30]  * HazRPG gives up... moves on
[01:31] <ali1234> i'm surprised it took these guys 3 weeks to get to "git log"
[01:31] <HazRPG> might add in the to-do (different page style?)
[01:31] <HazRPG> ali1234: ?
[01:32] <shauno> not sure I'd even go that far.  just find a polite way to ask if that's what he's actually going for, or if he's working on the content and hasn't started fighting with layouts :)
[01:32] <HazRPG> the dude working on it, is barely ever on here (as far as I can tell at least)
[01:33] <shauno> there's a very real chance that 'writing the book' is a priority over 'playing with the meta'
[01:33] <HazRPG> very true
[01:34] <HazRPG> ali1234: oh, heh I thought you meant the author did... yeah, in the boot it does seem odd, but well they've never used it before (I don't think) as far as the book's characters are concerned - I think :S
[01:35] <HazRPG> wasn't really focusing properly when I was reading it earlier
[01:35] <shauno> almost dragged the amiga out today, and then remembered I'm still using it's monitor :(
[01:35] <HazRPG> :P
[01:35] <HazRPG> I almost dragged out my Sharp
[01:35] <ali1234> ok, finished skimming
[01:35] <ali1234> where do i send my list of problems?
[01:35] <HazRPG> but then realised I don't own any of the old coax cables to put it to the TV
[01:36] <shauno> I'd imagine there's stuff like that that's somewhat dramatised to fit the book
[01:36] <ali1234> i see github has an issue tracker, will use that
[01:36] <HazRPG> ali1234: like I said, when I asked him - he said fork out the git and just commit it back
[01:36] <hamitron> my ZX is still setup ;)
[01:36] <shauno> "so they sat down, read the docs, and figured it out.  The End." would make a pretty weak chapter 2
[01:36] <HazRPG> shauno: haha true
[01:37] <HazRPG> ali1234: ooo, yeah I just noticed that too
[01:37] <shauno> my miggy is sort of setup.  except I stole the monitor because my laptop's screen borked
[01:37] <HazRPG> ali1234: :)
[01:37] <HazRPG> shauno: yeah I remember you mentioned something about that when I was non-stop on minecraft
[01:38] <HazRPG> I go through phases
[01:38] <shauno> "this week, I 'ave been mostly eating ..."
[01:38] <HazRPG> :p
[01:39] <shauno> I've a funny feeling I left the cardreader for the miggy at work too, which makes moving stuff onto it a little awkward
[01:40] <ali1234> how do you put a card reader on amiga?
[01:40] <shauno> pcmcia to compact flash adaptor
[01:41] <shauno> nifty because my camera uses CF too, so I've a few spare cards, and a usb reader for the laptop
[01:42] <shauno> use that with easyadf to turn interwebs into floppies
[01:44] <shauno> http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=440  is the most sensible €16 I've spent on the thing
[01:44] <HazRPG> wait, so your old amiga supports flash cards (sort of)?
[01:44] <shauno> yes
[01:44] <HazRPG> pretty impressed
[01:45] <HazRPG> my sharp has an expansion port - but I think it was mainly designed for a receipt printer
[01:45] <HazRPG> I doubt anyone's used it for anything else :(
[01:45] <HazRPG> still has a tape drive though
[01:45] <shauno> CF is surprisingly easy to support on odd devices.  they're ide-compatible, so anything that's figured out how to use cheap harddrives, can figure out CF
[01:45] <ali1234> i have a IDE-CF adapter, don't really think of CF as memory cards any more though
[01:45] <ali1234> they're almost as legacy as the amiga itself
[01:46] <HazRPG> hehe
[01:46] <shauno> I tried a couple of ide-cf adaptors, and never found one it liked
[01:46] <ali1234> so you can boot a disk image from CF on PCMCIA?
[01:46] <HazRPG> I wish all computer still came with a tape drive :/
[01:46] <shauno> I can't boot from it from pcmcia, no
[01:47] <HazRPG> or at least a VHS tape drive
[01:47] <shauno> there's a driver for it on the easyadf disk, so it's furniture until workbench is loaded
[01:47] <HazRPG> because video was stored on those in raw format, I can image that some compressed data on those would mean it could store a fair few gigabytes on them
[01:48] <ali1234> i think it's about 1GB per tape
[01:48] <ali1234> i could tell you exactly... VHS has about 3mhz bandwidth
[01:48] <HazRPG> wow...
[01:48] <HazRPG> really?
[01:48] <ali1234> yes really
[01:49] <HazRPG> hmm...
[01:49] <ali1234> by comparison, teletext needs 6mhz, but only uses about 16 out of 625 lines
[01:50] <HazRPG> hmm, so pretty slow then huh
[01:50] <ali1234> by another comparison, a mini DV tape holds about 6GB iirc
[01:50] <shauno> I remember reading about that when I was reading about the TIA chip in the amiga 2600
[01:50] <ali1234> wat
[01:50] <shauno> I always had this mental picture that the teletext lines were 'just off the top' of the screen
[01:50] <ali1234> i never heard of such things
[01:51] <ali1234> what's an amiga 2600?
[01:51] <HazRPG> I'll tell ya what, I use to remember how long it took to load up stuff on my Sharp from tape, it would take the time to make a cup of tea (literally) and have a sandwich before it would load up
[01:51] <ali1234> they *are* literally just off the top of the screen
[01:51] <ali1234> if you mess with vhold you can see them
[01:51] <shauno> turns out it's sent in the time it takes the beam to reset from bottom-right to top-left
[01:51] <ali1234> same thing
[01:52] <shauno> well I mean, it's not in lines that would otherwise be used for picture
[01:52] <shauno> (could, sure, would, no)
[01:52] <ali1234> right
[01:52] <HazRPG> has a vision of teletext looking funny on HD displays
[01:52] <ali1234> digital TV being not analogue, sends nothing in the VBL, just whole frames
[01:53] <ali1234> so teletext on DVB get's it's own packets in the mpeg stream
[01:53] <ali1234> there's a whole standard for it
[01:53] <ali1234> but ofcom banned it in favour of that red button rubbish
[01:53] <shauno> I'd just never thought about the beam actually taking time to get back, until I read dev notes for the atari.  which has almost no video buffering at all, so that time is the time you get to actually compute anything other than the picture itself
[01:53] <shauno> suddenly the travel time becomes significant
[01:54] <ali1234> oh, you meant atari 2600
[01:54] <shauno> yeah
[01:54] <ali1234> that makes sense
[01:54] <shauno> sorta.  both, really.  the 2600 is where I realised there's actually a gap there that teletext is exploiting.  rather than stealing lines that'd otherwise be useful
[01:58] <shauno> by time I was old enough to do anything remotely useful with computers, we already had blitters.  so it was an eye-opener to think of the screen's timing as being relevant at all
[02:00] <ali1234> hmm... forking on github was painless enough
[02:00] <HazRPG> think there's a market for selling ubuntu computers?
[02:00] <ali1234> no
[02:01] <shauno> I think it's "almost but not quite"
[02:01] <shauno> close enough that people keep trying.  not close enough for them to stick with it
[02:01] <HazRPG> bugger
[02:01] <ali1234> how is pull request formed?
[02:01] <gord> yes there is a market, just not a very big one, yo uwon't get rich
[02:02] <HazRPG> me and a few mates are just getting sick of crappy jobs
[02:02] <shauno> I wouldn't be surprised if linuxemporium are still doing it.  they were trying hardware before it was cool
[02:04] <ali1234> PC market is shrinking IMO
[02:04] <HazRPG> one's a network admin, and he's currently in the process of "maybe made redundant" ... "maybe not" ... stage, because of a school/college merge so that its just one college with several campuses ... and another who's been working in booze shops for years (but is skilled in maths, programming, hardware) ... and me, currently doing freelance but with barely any work most of the time because cumbria is pants
[02:04] <shauno> same problem as everyone else in the beige-box market tho.  you can't beat dell for price.  so you've gotta figure out where you can beat them.  and whether people will pay for it
[02:05] <ali1234> don't get into the hardware biz :)
[02:05] <ali1234> make the next facebook or something instead, more chance of success
[02:05] <hamitron> reselling dell ftw ;)
[02:05] <hamitron> only nobody is spending money atm :/
[02:06] <ali1234> or make mobile apps
[02:06] <ali1234> especially tablety, AR, social stuff
[02:06] <shauno> that's gotta saturate at some point.  there's only so many fart soundboards one iphone can hold
[02:06] <hamitron> do you think there will come a time when C/C++ is wanted again?
[02:07] <ali1234> what do you mean "again"?
[02:07] <gord> yeah not many people make much money on iphone these days
[02:07] <ali1234> C/C++ isn;t going anywhere
[02:07] <shauno> it still is.  it's just not a buzzword
[02:07] <hamitron> I mean, money is crap
[02:07] <hamitron> in a lot of comp stuff now
[02:07] <ali1234> of course
[02:08] <shauno> I think the "right way" is to do crossplatform is to stick the business end in C, and wrap it in whatever moonspeak each target environment wants
[02:08] <shauno> (minus some spare words.  it's 2am ..)
[02:08] <hamitron> :D
[02:08] <hamitron> everyone I know just says "java"
[02:08] <hamitron> :/
[02:09] <HazRPG> heh, yeah I keep hearing java a lot recently too :/
[02:09] <hamitron> although, I just don't care atm
[02:09] <shauno> disclaimer, I really don't like java
[02:09] <shauno> but I don't think that's the "right way" anymore
[02:09] <ali1234> java ._.
[02:10] <HazRPG> I mean my second year of my HND we were forced to take Java instead of Advanced C++ as a module (I mean be paraphrasing, but it was because some were thicker than others in the class to take AdvC++)
[02:10] <shauno> you're not going to look at the cash cow that is the iSheep one day, and decide to start sticking that java on iphones
[02:10] <HazRPG> s/mean/may
[02:11] <hamitron> I personally think computers will die in their current form
[02:11] <ali1234> you should not worry about what language you are using, i mean you should be able to use them all. the most important thing is to hire someone who can sell your product
[02:11] <ali1234> because nobody actually cares about quality
[02:12] <hamitron> tough times :)
[02:13]  * HazRPG feels sad that the whole computing era seems to be a dying breed
[02:13] <hamitron> I don't think coding will die
[02:13] <HazRPG> I think the problem is, everyone knows how to at least use one now
[02:13] <ali1234> computers aren't going to go away
[02:13] <HazRPG> oh I don't doubt that for a second
[02:13] <shauno> I don't look it as an era dying
[02:13] <ali1234> they will just go back to being a niche market like they were before about 2000
[02:13] <hamitron> ali1234: you don't think they will get smaller, cheaper and just "picked off the shelf" more?
[02:14] <ali1234> those aren't computers
[02:14] <hamitron> not as we know them, no
[02:14] <hamitron> :)
[02:14] <ali1234> those are appliances
[02:14] <hamitron> so is a computer?
[02:14] <hamitron> ;/
[02:14] <shauno> think when cars were new, and bought by the eccentrics that thought it was a novel horse replacement
[02:14] <ali1234> people who bought into the hype around windows XP and the internet in 2000 will upgrade to an appliance
[02:14] <shauno> we're moving from that, to every man and his dog has a car.
[02:15] <ali1234> everyone who actually cares (~1% of the people who actually own PCs today) will continue buying real computers
[02:15] <ali1234> this will be what kills microsoft btw
[02:15] <ali1234> they're already dying, they just haven't realised it yet
[02:15] <hamitron> unless they make the xbox platform the platform of choice
[02:15] <HazRPG> hamitron: I highly doubt it
[02:16] <hamitron> I thought sony were ahead of the game, but then they removed the otheros option
[02:16] <HazRPG> hamitron: don't remind me :(
[02:16] <ali1234> that *is* ahead of the game
[02:16] <shauno> meh. big picture, no-one cared about the otheros thing
[02:16]  * hamitron did
[02:16] <ali1234> this is where things are going: locked down appliances that can only run approved software
[02:16] <ali1234> this is unavoidable
[02:16] <hamitron> oh yeh ali1234
[02:16] <hamitron> :)
[02:17] <HazRPG> shauno: I bought mine under the sole reason that it could have linux
[02:17] <ali1234> it's not even particularly bad, i mean you don't have to buy one
[02:17] <hamitron> but I felt the otheros option was there to attract users to use an appliance as their comp
[02:17] <shauno> I can't think of a practical scale to explain what sort of minority that puts you in
[02:17] <shauno> one-legged trousers may be a bigger % of the market
[02:17] <hamitron> I was going to buy a ps3 the week they removed it
[02:17] <hamitron> :)
[02:18] <HazRPG> shauno: I mean I already owned an x360, wii, ds, psp... and since most games for x360 are coming out on ps3 too - my only real reason for a ps3 was for RPG's and Linux
[02:18] <ali1234> thing is, there's no reason you can't buy an appliance and a real computer
[02:18] <hamitron> but now I decided not to bother, and upgraded my pc for gaming
[02:18] <ali1234> and there never will be, because engineers need real computers to make appliances
[02:19] <hamitron> but even "real" computers won't be made of seperate bits
[02:19] <shauno> I think they will
[02:19] <ali1234> but that's pretty much it. the general public does not need powerful tools like windows XP (lol) to go on facebook. an iphone is plenty, no matter how locked down.
[02:19] <HazRPG> hamitron: I highly doubt that
[02:19] <shauno> I think PC is going to recede back into what was essentially an enthusiast market
[02:19] <ali1234> shauno: that's what i said just now :)
[02:19] <shauno> making 'bits' pretty much defacto
[02:19] <hamitron> so prices will rise again
[02:19] <hamitron> :/
[02:20] <ali1234> probably
[02:20] <ali1234> but not much because things like screens and GPU and CPU are the same
[02:20] <shauno> that was what I was trying to get at with my awful car analogy.  they've gone from being eccentric toys, to transport for the masses
[02:20] <ali1234> and RAM and flash memory
[02:20] <shauno> but you're still going to have petrolheads.  and a market to serve them
[02:21] <HazRPG> indeed
[02:21] <hamitron> I just feel something similar to the Eee boxes will replace most "work" appliances
[02:21] <HazRPG> makes me feel I shouldn't have bothered pursuing a career in IT
[02:21] <HazRPG> so far it hasn't done me much good
[02:22] <hamitron> imo biggest problem with working in IT sector: loads of idiots have gone into it
[02:22] <ali1234> lol
[02:22] <hamitron> get a 6 week qualification and setup a comp chop
[02:22] <hamitron> shop*
[02:22] <HazRPG> hamitron: is that the one that was recently in confs. about having everything served from one computer to share several screens/keyboards/mice?
[02:22] <shauno> IT bugs me at the moment because it's a complete buzzword frenzy now
[02:22] <shauno> it's basically cloud or go home
[02:23] <ali1234> if i hear "ecosystem" one more time i might tear my own ears off
[02:23] <shauno> there is very little specialization anymore
[02:23] <hamitron> HazRPG: I am not sure the exact route it will take, depends on demand
[02:23] <ali1234> everyone wants to do everything
[02:23] <HazRPG> shauno: in all fairness it always was after the 80's boom of computers, its been one buzzword after the next (if the documentary Micro Men is anything to go by)
[02:23] <ali1234> this is what ecosystem means
[02:24] <HazRPG> ali1234: agreed
[02:24] <ali1234> everyone has to have an app store, a music store, a web mail, and a social network
[02:24] <HazRPG> web 2.0 right ? *waves arms in a sarcastic manner*
[02:24] <ali1234> but that is a market where it only works when there's only 1 such provider otherwise it sucks for everyone
[02:25] <hamitron> 1 will probably win
[02:25] <hamitron> or at least some will die
[02:25] <ali1234> nobody corporate is going to displace facebook for social, or apple for music
[02:26] <shauno> thing is tho, it's still a helluva wave if you can figure out how to ride it
[02:26] <HazRPG> ali1234: I don't know a single person that uses apple for music :S
[02:26] <ali1234> so anyone with a mission that says "we want to beat facebook and apple and google at their own games" is just deluding themselves
[02:26] <shauno> HazRPG: yes you do :p
[02:26] <ali1234> i mean just taking on any one of them is bad enough
[02:26] <HazRPG> shauno: guessing you do then :P
[02:26] <ali1234> to take them all on at once is a war on multiple fronts
[02:26] <shauno> yup.  unashamed fanboi
[02:27] <ali1234> yes Nokia, i am looking at you are your Ovi "ecosystem"
[02:27] <HazRPG> I dislike the spelling boi - but yeah
[02:27] <ali1234> stick to making good phones!
[02:27] <shauno> they're a fantastic example of the change not being the end tho
[02:27] <hamitron> yeh :)
[02:27] <shauno> you can lament that computers are turning into consumer appliances.  apple just claimed their iOS devices are the majority of their income now
[02:28] <ali1234> i don't have a problem with it
[02:28] <hamitron> Nokia's problem was symbian and lack of movement, and unclear direction
[02:28] <HazRPG> am I the only one that still bye's CD's?
[02:28] <ali1234> computing got along just fine without the masses, it will continue to do so
[02:28] <HazRPG> buys*
[02:28] <ali1234> yeah probably
[02:28] <shauno> HazRPG: I've bought one CD since .. 2001
[02:28]  * HazRPG starting to annoy self with bad spelling mistakes
[02:28] <hamitron> I buy all my music on CD
[02:29] <hamitron> I expect physical copies
[02:29] <HazRPG> hamitron: I liked the symbian :/
[02:29] <hamitron> I do
[02:29] <hamitron> :)
[02:29] <shauno> I spent everything I had on physical media in my teenage years
[02:29] <shauno> I've moved country three times since then, and have absolutely no idea where any of it is
[02:29] <hamitron> I refuse to spend money on something that is just data normally
[02:29] <HazRPG> I would still use my nokia's if it wasn't for the fact that the only way to update the software was to plug it into the computer and hope one exists that fixes the major bug that seems to only affect me
[02:30] <shauno> there's numbered vinyl in there and all.  I just literally have no idea where it is.
[02:30] <HazRPG> shauno: ouch
[02:30] <hamitron> do you guys buy music online?
[02:30] <shauno> I do
[02:30] <hamitron> :-o
[02:31] <HazRPG> shauno: sounds like me, I have many books that /would/ be worth something (first prints) ... but can't find a single one of them :(
[02:31] <ali1234> does having a free spotify count?
[02:31] <hamitron> it scares me, think I am a techy technophobe
[02:31] <shauno> HazRPG: I'm pretty sure I know what country my pre-1998 CDs are in.  not 100% sure, but a good idea
[02:31] <HazRPG> I have 2 houses alone (about a mile apart) to look through, then 3 flats & 2 villas in egypt and 1 flat in saudi after that with stuff all spread between them all :/
[02:32] <hamitron> you need to work? ;)
[02:32] <shauno> my heart bleeds purple expletives :p
[02:32] <shauno> I tend to lose things because when I move, I cross timezones.  and when I do, I do it in one suitcase
[02:32] <HazRPG> hamitron: I donate money to Jamendo, the artists I like, if that counts?
[02:33] <hamitron> donating is different
[02:33] <shauno> this is why my car's in michigan :(
[02:34] <HazRPG> shauno: I know the feeling, I have issues 1-100 of sonic the comic in saudi in a tin box
[02:34] <ali1234> i have an ovi comes with music account too, also free
[02:34] <ali1234> but it sucks
[02:34] <hamitron> jumping through the hoops apple put up, and giving them money just seems like it is along the path to renting music to me
[02:34] <shauno> HazRPG: a tin box would be fantastic
[02:34] <shauno> apple's hoops are largely a myth
[02:34] <HazRPG> shauno: whenever I've moved, my parents said "send your stuff by cargo"
[02:34] <hamitron> renting the use of their device you bought too
[02:35] <hamitron> shauno: like the iPad only including 2 upgrades?
[02:35] <shauno> the music's drm free. aac is standardized.
[02:35] <shauno> if I want to play my itunes library on linux, there is absolutely nothing stopping me
[02:35] <ali1234> hamitron: there isn't much use complaining about it. people will find out for themselves why it is a bad idea
[02:35] <HazRPG> you know, for every time I read "Terms of use may vary" I got a penny, I'd be a rich man
[02:35] <ali1234> it will take about 10 years, just like it did with microsoft
[02:36] <hamitron> ali1234: sorry, I myself am like a broken record :D
[02:36] <shauno> hamitron: I expect everyone else's hardware is going to find itself EOL'd after a number of OS upgrades too
[02:36] <shauno> they just don't tell you up front, so they're the good guys
[02:36] <shauno> are there android phones that won't run honeycomb?
[02:37] <hamitron> I don't think the android market is good either ;/
[02:37] <hamitron> I personally think it is moving too fast
[02:37] <shauno> the difference with the "two upgrades" thing is that you've been told how far into the future you will be supported for
[02:37] <hamitron> as is ubuntu
[02:37] <shauno> instead of finding out that your phone isn't shiny enough for the new OS
[02:37] <HazRPG> hamitron: don't worry, I can be like a broken record too sometimes (and because I do it myself, I find it hard to spot it in other people)
[02:37] <HazRPG> I think android is missing a trick somewhere...
[02:38] <shauno> it's missing clout
[02:38] <hamitron> and consistency
[02:38] <HazRPG> I mean just think, each update means waves & waves of update rollouts
[02:38] <shauno> the carriers get to wield the power.  and there's not a single telco out there that can be trusted with it
[02:38] <hamitron> a platform needs to stick around for a while, to become popular and accepted
[02:38] <HazRPG> sure hardware may vary, but wouldn't it be better to have it set in stone kernel-side?
[02:39] <HazRPG> I mean I doubt it'd get too big surely?
[02:39] <hamitron> good to standardise hardware imo
[02:39] <shauno> I think the whole mess is too young for standardize
[02:39] <HazRPG> hamitron: most of the android phones pretty much are
[02:39] <hamitron> less regular upgrades
[02:40] <hamitron> shauno: maybe everyone jumped on it before it was ready :)
[02:40] <shauno> it's going to grow out of it's clothes every single year.  this is how children work.
[02:40] <hamitron> I do agree with you
[02:40] <shauno> you try to slow it in it's infant stages, and it's going to be stunted for life
[02:40] <hamitron> yeh :/
[02:41] <HazRPG> I still think android is missing a trick :/
[02:41] <hamitron> imo, carriers need to maybe make 1 version a standard stable industry standard, then switch version every few years
[02:41] <hamitron> but have the development version free to move forward
[02:41] <shauno> I think they should stick with rolling excitement for now, and let people buy in as often or as infrequently as they like
[02:42] <hamitron> I probably will
[02:42] <hamitron> :)
[02:42] <hamitron> increases profits
[02:42] <HazRPG> increases wide-spread of linux \o/
[02:42] <hamitron> I can see it giving linux a bad name
[02:42] <shauno> this is the other side of appliances
[02:42] <HazRPG> I just wish the penguin would be shown at least somewhere in its marketing
[02:42] <shauno> people aren't used to sticking a new OS on their phone every few years
[02:43] <shauno> you get what you bought, and you'll get something newer, next time you buy it
[02:43] <shauno> normal people think about upgrading their phone's OS, about as often as you think about giving your dishwasher a firmware upgrade
[02:44] <HazRPG> yeah, but from my observation the popularity of android seems to be partly based on the fact that people know updates are coming in thick & fast
[02:44] <speedxco1e> anyone awake? =)
[02:44] <shauno> speedxco1e: sleepranting is popular here :)
[02:44] <hamitron> ranting? us? ;)
[02:44] <HazRPG> speedxco1e: at least 4 people are yes :)
[02:45] <HazRPG> shauno: agreed :)
[02:45] <HazRPG> I like our past-midnight rants :)
[02:45] <hamitron> :))
[02:45] <speedxco1e> I'm trying yo learn how to copy files by modification date. I got one folder with 100s of folders created over years. I just need this year.
[02:45] <HazRPG> and discussions
[02:46] <HazRPG> and "haz is thick, but insists on  being right" talks :)
[02:46] <speedxco1e> I'm looking into piping find or using rsync.
[02:46] <speedxco1e> that is the best?
[02:46] <speedxco1e> *what
[02:46] <hamitron> I would use piping
[02:47] <shauno> I'd just use find
[02:48] <speedxco1e> if find alone enough?
[02:48] <speedxco1e> *is
[02:48] <shauno> find /path -mtime 52w -type f(ile) -exec do something with "{}" ";"
[02:48] <shauno> (I don't know if 1y works for years, but 52w works for weeks
[02:48] <shauno> or s/m/d for sec/mins/days
[02:49] <shauno> wikipedia tells me today is the 64th day of the year.  so I'd find -mtime 64d to return files modified this year
[02:50] <shauno> (it'd probably catch 21 hours worth of files modified on 31st dec 2010, but I can live with that :)
[02:51] <speedxco1e> shauno: thanks, I do some exprimentation
[02:51]  * speedxco1e is a piping noob, but like to learn more.
[02:52] <HazRPG> speedxco1e: heh I just imagined that your previous comment was ran through a mature filter just then - it amused me somewhat
[02:52] <shauno> usually if you're looking for files that match a stat-able pattern, find is awesomely powerful :)
[02:54] <speedxco1e> mastering piping seem to be an important part of mastering linux and unix systems
[02:54] <shauno> certainly
[02:55] <shauno> the 'unix way' is to have one tool for one job.  if the job's an odd one, you need to use multiple tools
[02:55] <shauno> but if it's a job that has 'one tool' for it, don't make your life difficult :)
[02:55] <HazRPG> agreed
[02:56] <HazRPG> I like how linux has a tool for everything, but very little "I do everything!" tools - means less clutter, and less chance of failure and bugs :)
[02:57] <shauno> I think it just makes a lot of things a lot more transparent
[02:57] <HazRPG> just a case of mastering them
[02:57] <HazRPG> I guess
[02:58] <HazRPG> shauno: let me know what you think of this, been toying with speed tables http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64
[02:58] <HazRPG> I've put it in ogg/mp3/sid to make things easier
[02:58] <shauno> you can come up with some pretty whacky one-liners, but the command is almost a sentence
[02:59] <ali1234> sid files open in totem by default here
[02:59] <ali1234> probably because i have resid installed
[02:59] <shauno> this is almost funny.  I seem to have broken safari's handling of mp3s
[02:59] <HazRPG> ali1234: brobostigon said he could on his totem too (and mine), so I don't think resid is necessary
[03:00] <HazRPG> shauno is on mac as far as I'm aware though
[03:00] <ali1234> ah
[03:00] <shauno> if I click the mp3 link, I get a quicktime container that refuses to play.  if I click the ogg link, I get a quicktime container that *does* play
[03:00] <HazRPG> hmm, that might be my fault
[03:00] <shauno> nah, it's not the first place I've noticed it
[03:01] <HazRPG> I just used audacity to make it
[03:01] <shauno> I've a feeling I may have been a bit too violent persuading quicktime it could play some things
[03:01] <HazRPG> ah ok, *phew*
[03:01] <shauno> it sounds like it changes tempo several times at the beginning?
[03:01] <HazRPG> I know the intro sounds wacky, my friend pointed it out to me earlier this evening
[03:02] <shauno> around the 3 second mark, it can't seem to decide which way it's going
[03:02] <shauno> did you settle on a tracker yet?
[03:02] <HazRPG> yeah GoatTracker
[03:03] <HazRPG> I couldn't get MilkyTracker to do anything :/
[03:03] <ali1234> goattracker won't work unless you're running pulseaudio :(
[03:03] <ali1234> i probably just need to recompile it
[03:03] <HazRPG> ali1234: guessing your not
[03:03] <shauno> never was fond of linux having 3 and a half audio subsystems
[03:03] <ali1234> yeah wine audio doesn't work properly with pulse, works fine with alsa
[03:04] <HazRPG> wine works on my side
[03:04] <HazRPG> and I haven't changed anything
[03:04] <ali1234> it works for a few hours then just stops
[03:04] <HazRPG> 10.10, with wine beta (1.2.2?)
[03:05] <HazRPG> ali1234: I had OpenMPT looping a song for about an hr without problems
[03:05] <HazRPG> I get distracted, and forget what's playing half the time
[03:05] <ali1234> it's very hardware dependent too
[03:05] <HazRPG> I guess
[03:05] <ali1234> get different results when using different number of cores to run wine for example
[03:05] <HazRPG> pulseaudio is coming along nicely though, seems more are developing for it
[03:06] <ali1234> thing is, even the PA devs recommend you develop to the alsa safe subset
[03:06] <shauno> HazRPG: did you try sunvox along your travels?
[03:06] <HazRPG> ali1234: what sort of getup/setup you got running at your end of the wires?
[03:06] <HazRPG> shauno: I saw that one... didn't try it though
[03:06] <ali1234> you mean, what computer do i have?
[03:06] <HazRPG> ali1234: yes :)
[03:08] <HazRPG> shauno: I pretty much dismissed anything that wasn't already in binary form
[03:08] <ali1234> M4A79XTD, phenom 2 x4 3.2ghz, 4GB ram
[03:08] <HazRPG> was in a lazy mood at the time
[03:08] <ali1234> and geforce 240
[03:08] <shauno> sunvox is in binary, just not packaged
[03:08] <HazRPG> shauno: is it?
[03:08] <HazRPG> might have to try it then
[03:09] <shauno> the zip on their website contains a bunch of static binaries for various platforms
[03:09] <ali1234> vice can emulate C64 midi cart btw
[03:09] <ali1234> you can map sid registers to midi controls and stuff
[03:09] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, no I see why I dismissed it now
[03:09] <ali1234> and use a proper sequencer instead of a tracker
[03:10] <HazRPG> ali1234: nice setup you've got :)
[03:10] <HazRPG> ali1234: I can't seem to get vice going :(
[03:10] <HazRPG> I have a feeling I'm missing a BIOS for it
[03:10] <ali1234> you need to download the roms separately
[03:10] <ali1234> read the readme it tells you where to get them
[03:11] <HazRPG> hmm, where do they store those?
[03:11] <ali1234> /usr/share/doc/vice
[03:11] <HazRPG> I'm too use to C:\Program Files\ sadly :( (despite using linux since 2006)
[03:12] <ali1234> synaptic, "installed files", ???, profit
[03:12] <HazRPG> haha
[03:13] <HazRPG> shauno: I just realised I didn't explain why I dismissed it - its because I thought the gui representation of the instruments, and chips (I think?) just seemed like a wacky concept
[03:14] <HazRPG> shauno: also, wave forms put me off unless I'm working with raw sound files
[03:14] <ali1234> you think modular synth is "wacky"?
[03:14] <HazRPG> no, it just looks wacky
[03:15] <shauno> I think waves are pretty relevant
[03:16] <shauno> triangle vs saw vs sine vs rect is a huge part of what makes up the 'voices' for chips
[03:18] <HazRPG> it might just be because GoatTracker was the first one I used - along with a GB tracker I owned years ago (despite not being able to get sound out of it at the time) - putting in numbers makes more sense to me then drawing waves myself
[03:18] <HazRPG> reason I was having trouble with milky
[03:19] <HazRPG> that and it would refuse to let me do anything fancy with the waves I made after I'd created them :/
[03:19] <HazRPG> but that might just be ignorance on my part
[03:19] <ali1234> when you put in those numbers you're really just typing in samples one sample at a time
[03:20] <HazRPG> ali1234: I understand that, but /that/ makes more sense then seeing a wave length to me
[03:23] <HazRPG> I don't understand why... I just know that the numbers seem to make more sense somehow
[03:25] <hamitron> nn all o/
[03:25] <HazRPG> hamitron: night dude
[03:26] <HazRPG> hmm, not sure which ROM set to download
[03:27] <HazRPG> vice-roms.tar.gz; vice-1.5-roms.tar.gz (as recommended in the readme);
[03:33] <shauno> read it backwards :)
[03:33] <shauno> me read the recommended vice-1.5-roms ...
[03:33] <shauno> it's almost a sentence man.  it's a sign :)
[03:34] <ali1234> go hang a salami! i'm a lasagna hog
[03:35] <shauno> and with that, it's bedtime.  up since 5, so it's Time.
[03:38] <shauno> last note.  you could remove all questions and go full on nerd.  http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/SID-shield
[03:39] <HazRPG> shauno: heh I bought a pack that had a speaker with it, along with a few other bits from that
[03:39] <HazRPG> shauno: however I'm not skilled enough to make a tune out of it all
[03:39] <shauno> you can hook a sid up to it.  you apparently like stuffing numbers down sid's throat.  what else is there to it ?
[03:39] <HazRPG> also, I got the vice-roms.tar.gz (seems to be the most current version)
[03:41] <ali1234> ah, i need to install a libsdl with support for something other than pulseaudio
[03:41] <HazRPG> true... but its different doing it this way, surely having a SID you'd have to put the numbers in by forming several timing circuits together
[03:41] <HazRPG> ali1234: oh, doesn't libsdl support others?
[03:42] <ali1234> it does but they are in separate packages
[03:42] <HazRPG> ootb I mean
[03:42] <HazRPG> ah
[03:42] <ali1234> just need to switch it out
[03:42] <HazRPG> now for the moment of truth with this rom pack (just cp'ed them in)
[03:42] <HazRPG> nope, still got nothing :/
[03:44] <HazRPG> ah 1.5 apparently has a few other files (typical)
[03:48] <HazRPG> ooo, I got 2 out of 6 working :)
[04:06] <HazRPG> having no luck with this
[04:06] <HazRPG> keeps saying the kernal can't be loaded
[04:27] <speedxco1e> find job2011 -mtime -120 -exec cp -rvu --preserve=timestamps "{}" buptest2011/ \;
[04:27] <speedxco1e> I am doint it wrong =/
[04:27] <speedxco1e> *doing
[04:27] <speedxco1e> it takes files much older than 120days too..
[05:01] <HazRPG> ali1234: managed to get that libsdl working dude?
[05:01] <ali1234>  yeah
[05:01] <HazRPG> I think its +120 not -120
[05:03] <HazRPG> speedxco1e: or possibly try taking out the -/+ altogether and just leave as -mtime 120
[05:03] <HazRPG> speedxco1e: from what I can tell, it needs to be a positive number either way
[05:04] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, got them working :D
[05:04] <HazRPG> although one complains about alsa, but I can live with that
[05:04] <ali1234> had to report some bugs against another program that didn't like me uninstalling sdl-pulse
[05:05] <HazRPG> ouch
[05:05] <HazRPG> I wish the communities as a whole would pick one and stick with
[05:07]  * HazRPG doesn't know what to do now with x64
[05:07] <HazRPG> however my Sharp had a VERY similar interface to this... so would I be wrong in thinking they ran on a similar os?
[05:09] <ali1234> it's possible
[05:09] <ali1234> commodore did licence some stuff
[05:11] <HazRPG> hmm, there's a mz700 emu for windows apparently
[05:12] <HazRPG> oooooo, there's one for linux too!
[05:12] <HazRPG> oh...
[05:12] <HazRPG> under dosbox
[05:12] <HazRPG> bah!
[05:13] <ali1234> what's an mz700?
[05:13] <ali1234> i've never heard of half these things
[05:13] <HazRPG> Sharp MZ700 is the system I had
[05:13] <HazRPG> came with BASIC and 2 game tapes
[05:14] <HazRPG> http://www.sharpmz.org/index.html
[05:14] <ali1234> wow, it had a built in datasette?
[05:14] <HazRPG> yup :)
[05:14] <ali1234> i wish i didn't thrown out my broken C64 and plotter
[05:15] <HazRPG> :o!
[05:16] <ali1234> was one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itu--nY-9bQ
[05:16] <ali1234> for some reason i kept the crap dot matrix printer
[05:16] <ali1234> still got that in a cupboard somewhere
[05:17] <HazRPG> haha nice
[05:18] <HazRPG> can't believe you threw that out, and a c64!
[05:18] <ali1234> well it was broken and i was like 14 and my parents made me
[05:18] <HazRPG> ah
[05:18] <HazRPG> just out of interest, what's your age?
[05:18] <ali1234> 30
[05:20] <HazRPG> see I never got the mz700 until I was 10
[05:20] <HazRPG> and I'm guessing my dad had it for a few years before that
[05:21] <HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtSkZI8CE8
[05:21] <ali1234> hmm there's one on ebay for £10
[05:22] <HazRPG> really?
[05:22] <HazRPG> I can't see any
[05:22] <ali1234> the plotter, not the sharp
[05:22] <HazRPG> ah
[05:38] <ali1234> oh wow it's space harrier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-4Zu0DN2g&NR=1
[05:39] <ali1234> i was thinking about space harrier earlier after someone mentioned star fox, it's basically the same game but with sprites instead of 3d
[05:39] <ali1234> those graphics are pretty good considering how big the pixels are
[05:40] <HazRPG> oh wow
[05:40] <HazRPG> yeah
[05:40] <ali1234> good framerate and if you squint your eyes it looks quite good
[05:40] <ali1234> i would imagine it looks a lot better on a blurry TV
[05:41] <HazRPG> you know, I don't recall owning any coloured games for my mz700
[05:49] <HazRPG> I'm beginning to think my TV couldn't use the MZ-700 properly
[05:49] <ali1234> maybe it was pal/ntsc difference?
[05:49] <HazRPG> because I don't remember there being colour
[05:49] <ali1234> that will result in grey picture
[05:49] <HazRPG> could be
[05:50] <HazRPG> although I recall my tv had both pal/ntsc - because dad bought it from Saudi
[05:50] <HazRPG> must have had an ntsc machine (or set to ntsc) and running it through pal settings
[05:51] <HazRPG> although I can't see any videos of any of the games I had either
[05:51] <HazRPG> they were just pre-loaded games that came on a tape with the machine
[05:51] <ali1234> well the main rom screen was supposed to be blue from what i can see
[05:51] <HazRPG> hmm, I remember it being blue
[05:52] <HazRPG> maybe the games made/released with the machine were only grey scale
[05:54] <HazRPG> ah, it was the mz721 I had to be exact
[05:54] <HazRPG> because it had the tape drive
[05:54] <ali1234> maybe the games were setting it to ntsc mode
[05:54] <HazRPG> could be
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> \o
[06:02] <HazRPG> \o
[06:03] <HazRPG> ali1234: woo! Finally found them!
[06:03] <HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.sharpmz.org/mz-700/10games.html
[06:03] <HazRPG> those were the games I had on one tape
[06:04] <HazRPG> and yeah it was colour, I clearly wasn't really paying attention back then
[06:04] <HazRPG> I recall playing land escape it blue
[06:05] <ali1234> circus star sounds like a great game
[06:06] <HazRPG> haha, it was a really really odd game
[06:07] <HazRPG> my favourite was Painful Man
[06:08] <HazRPG> snake and snake was interesting to say the least
[06:44] <HazRPG> hahaha
[06:46] <HazRPG> ali1234, not sure but I think this story might interest you - it's a hacker called Morpheus who messed around with the c64... here's what he wrote in an interview with him years later (just a snip from the "any cool stories to share with us?" section): http://pastebin.com/NwWdqqMY
[06:47] <HazRPG> interview was from: http://www.c64.com/
[06:48] <ali1234> heh
[06:50] <MartijnVdS> heh.. a record company sent me some American candy with a 7" I ordered :)
[06:50] <MartijnVdS> just re-checked the envelope and found it
[07:14] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nice
[07:19] <daubers> Morning
[07:20] <HazRPG> daubers: morning
[07:22] <daubers> I'm trying to decide if I want to goto the Museum of computings speccy programming thing
[07:22] <daubers> popeys blog post almost had me booking tickets
[07:28] <alexcockell> Morning..
[07:28]  * daubers ponders if the speccy he has in pieces can be made to work
[07:35] <alexcockell> Ahh - I remember those..
[07:40] <optimusP> how to share a folder in VB guest windows xp NTFS
[08:12] <AlanBell> daubers: I have been to the museum, small but really interesting
[08:14] <daubers> AlanBell: I'm just interested in a bit of naustalgic speccy programming
[08:15] <daubers> I won £10 on the lottery with my dads speccy
[08:23] <knightwise> morning
[08:25] <popey> morning
[08:28]  * daubers blames popey
[08:29] <daubers> popey: because of you I've got a spectrum and a soldering iron all over the kitchen table
[08:32] <cbx333> ali1234, thanks for the fork :)
[08:33] <daubers> Might get the offices metal worker people to quote me on an aluminium shell for it
[08:33] <daubers> lovely black anodised one
[08:42] <cbx333> HazRPG, the other thing that i will need some input on - is situations you find yourself in whilst using Git that others might find themselves in and not know how to solve necessarily
[08:43] <cbx333> especially if there are multiple answers
[08:45] <popey> haha daubers
[08:48] <cbx333> hey popey
[08:55] <daubers> hmmm
[08:55] <daubers> need to get some connectors to run it into the ariel socket of the telle
[08:55] <AlanBell> daubers: your challenge of the day is to splice in an HDMI output
[08:56] <AlanBell> and don't forget to wire the overscan area to the speakers so the borders flicker when loading stuff!
[08:57] <AlanBell> that was a totally bonkers bit of technical architecture
[08:57] <daubers> AlanBell: If I get another chassis made, I'll get the fixing points made for the revo mobo
[08:57] <popey> I love that the DS has the same screen resolution as the Spectrum :)
[08:58] <AlanBell> trying to remember what that was
[08:58] <AlanBell> I remember it was in three bands
[08:58] <daubers> I've got the service manual if you want it
[08:58] <daubers> complete with circuit diagrams
[08:59] <AlanBell> black and white with a low resolution colour overlay
[08:59] <popey> the DS speccy emulator even emulates it
[08:59] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:59] <popey> oh the 3 bands
[08:59] <popey> yes, 256x192
[08:59] <daubers> ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/technical-docs/ZXSpectrum48K_ServiceManual.pdf
[08:59] <popey> 24 lines, 3 blocks of 8
[09:02] <daubers> All computers should come with something like http://www.worldofspectrum.org/ZXBasicManual/
[09:02] <AlanBell> I remember being really dissapointed that my Amiga manual didn't have circuit diagrams in it
[09:02] <daubers> heh
[09:03] <AlanBell> speccy basic was a great manual
[09:03] <AlanBell> actually taught maths whilst explaining what the functions did
[09:03] <daubers> I learnt algebra from that boot
[09:03] <daubers> s/boot/book
[09:03] <AlanBell> me too
[09:04] <AlanBell> kids of today don't know what they are missing out on
[09:04] <daubers> Exactley
[09:04] <AlanBell> I remember when this was all fields
[09:04] <daubers> And on that note I really should go to the parents and help them dig in 50 bags of mushroom compost
[09:04]  * AlanBell heads of to Birmingham
[09:09] <MooDoo> AlanBell: not going to the photography show are you ?
[09:09] <popey> AlanBell: safe trip!
[09:10] <AlanBell> MooDoo: nope, a birthday party with jelly and ice cream
[09:10] <MooDoo> AlanBell: well safe trip and stop teasin :)
[09:12] <livingdaylight> Avé !
[09:15] <livingdaylight> | Avé Mandrake
[09:16] <MooDoo> awesome blog post popey :)  remember the magazine Crash! :)
[09:17] <popey> ta
[09:17] <livingdaylight> Mandrake, I remember mandrake os
[09:17] <livingdaylight> MooDoo, wha'ts it about ?
[09:18] <MooDoo> livingdaylight: popeys computer history and his first the xz81 :)
[09:18] <livingdaylight> wow
[09:18] <livingdaylight> I don't even know what dat is?
[09:18] <popey> o_O
[09:19] <MooDoo> livingdaylight: how old are you?
[09:19] <livingdaylight> MooDoo, :s
[09:19] <MooDoo> livingdaylight: i didn't mean anything by it :) just if you're a whipper snapper you might not know what it is :)
[09:19] <livingdaylight> MooDoo, I think i had a deprived childhood
[09:19] <MooDoo> lol i'm referring to the Sinclair ZX81
[09:20] <MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX81
[09:20] <livingdaylight> our famous inventor, wasn't he?
[09:20] <MooDoo> livingdaylight: yes, Sir Clive Sinclair
[09:20] <popey> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/04/sinclair_zx81_anniversary/
[09:20] <popey> 30 years old today
[09:21] <MooDoo> you youngsters today :D lol
[09:21] <livingdaylight> I watched Revolution OS yesterday... still good to see
[09:21] <MooDoo> livingdaylight: very good film :)
[09:22] <livingdaylight> amazing how it all came together
[09:22] <livingdaylight> opensource is the best
[09:24] <livingdaylight> so many opensource initiatives now besides software
[09:28] <MooDoo> livingdaylight: yup :) get in while the iron is hot :)
[09:32] <dwatkins> a vote for regular backups here: my other half tried triple-booting her Macbook Pro and it paniced during resizing of the windows partition, and had to be restored from the latest backup, but that had failed, so the previous backup had to be used.
[09:32] <livingdaylight> Mandrake, Avé
[09:34] <livingdaylight> is it best to install on VB using cd or iso image? trying to launch from cd here but after initially starting up it seems to go no where
[09:36] <popey> dwatkins: +1
[09:38] <dwatkins> popey: I can't believe it paniced during resize
[09:38]  * dutchie notes that his backups have been failing for the past x weeks
[09:38]  * dutchie uncomments the important line
[09:39] <dwatkins> A backup isn't a backup until it's been successfully verified
[09:41] <livingdaylight> always back your backup up
[09:41] <dwatkins> livingdaylight: that was the other thing that occurred, having two separate physical copies as well
[09:44] <popey> dwatkins: what was doing the resize?
[09:44] <dwatkins> popey: the standard installer, I think - the GUI
[09:45] <popey> uhm
[09:45] <popey> which OS?
[09:45] <dwatkins> turns out it didn't panic, bug gave an error which couldn't be rescued from, so may as well have paniced
[09:45] <dwatkins> 10.10 64-bit
[09:45] <popey> i wouldn't do a rezise on a mbp with ubuntu
[09:45] <popey> I'd use disk utility in osx
[09:46] <dwatkins> oh right. do you use refit as the boot mgr?
[09:46] <popey> yes
[09:46] <dwatkins> cool
[09:47] <dwatkins> do you know of any instructions (i.e. a howto) that's current etc.?
[09:47] <dwatkins> the one we were following is from the heady days of Ubuntu 8.04
[09:47] <popey> for which bit?
[09:48] <dwatkins> after xp is installed to create an ubuntu partition etc. and install
[09:48] <popey> so you have osx and xp?
[09:48] <popey> split between the two, no spare disk space?
[09:49] <dwatkins> that was the stage this mbp was at yesterday, it's just being restored from the backup due to the resize problem trashing the entire disk
[09:49] <popey> not sure, i dont have windows on mine
[09:49] <dwatkins> aha I see
[09:50] <popey> I'd probably not be where you are tbh
[09:50] <dwatkins> Which Ubuntu do you have on yours? Does all the hardware work, e.g. sound?
[09:50] <dwatkins> yeah, I see what you mean, popey - she wants to have the option of booting all three
[09:50] <popey> I would have started with osx on the full disk, then use disk utility to shrink the osx down
[09:50] <popey> and add two partitions
[09:51] <popey> then install xp and ubuntu into those
[09:51] <dwatkins> ah, I didn't know that was an option
[09:52] <livingdaylight> given one has sufficient memory is there any advantage from having a dual/triple boot to using Virtualization?
[09:53] <popey> i use windows in a vm on my mac, and ubuntu natively installed
[09:53] <balor> Morning peanut gallery
[09:54] <balor> I suspect that jono's in for a bit of a blog-bashing today
[09:54] <dwatkins> indeed, I tend to just run all OSs apart from OS X in a virtual machine on my Mac
[09:55] <popey> balor: hmm?
[09:55] <dwatkins> for gaming I guess it's best to run windoze natively for speed, but none of the games I play don't have Mac versions
[09:56] <balor> popey: http://is.gd/gacZWX Mark called Fedora "Open Core" and Jono said that many of us (people like me) are the "peanut gallery"
[09:56] <popey> balor: he has already explained that comment
[09:56] <balor> popey: where?
[09:57] <balor> popey: It's still ill-advised phraseology.
[09:57] <popey> http://www.chuckfrain.net/blog/2011/03/04/stepping-down-as-ubuntu-maryland-leader/#comment-1268
[09:57] <popey> I agree with him
[09:59] <balor> popey: So do I, to an extent.
[09:59] <popey> we have a lot of detractors, many who never have and never will use ubuntu
[09:59] <popey> I dont think they should dictate the project direction
[09:59] <balor> popey: It's just when you make a black-and-white distinction i.e. inside/outside the peanut gallery, then you have to define who's in it
[10:00] <balor> popey: So, for example, my student who has never directly contributed to Ubuntu - but has installed it on at least 5 of his classmates machines
[10:00] <balor> popey: is his opinion on U, from the peanut gallery or not
[10:00] <popey> I dont believe its black and white like that
[10:00] <popey> its not a venn diagram
[10:01] <popey> "All these people are in the peanut gallery@
[10:01] <popey> I think you're over-analyzing it
[10:01] <livingdaylight> dwatkins, for gaming its true i can see how running native makes more sense
[10:01] <balor> popey: I'm a researcher in formal logic, of course I over-analyse :)
[10:01] <popey> :)
[10:02] <balor> popey: And my area of specialism happens to be Euler diagrams - Venn diagrams *are* a type of Euler diagram.
[10:02] <dwatkins> livingdaylight: yeah, it's just that now there are enough native Mac games I'm not concerned about this personally. She is, though :)
[10:08] <livingdaylight> detractor = hater?
[10:11] <livingdaylight> yea, constantly referring to  ubuntu users as part of the "peanut gallery" isn't cool... I agree there. All users should be shown respect and value
[10:11] <dwatkins> I don't even know what a peanut gallery is.... *googles*
[10:11] <popey> livingdaylight: nobody did that
[10:11] <popey> nobody "constantly" referred to "ubuntu users" as part of the "peanut gallery"
[10:12] <livingdaylight> popey, now you're being very precise
[10:12] <balor> livingdaylight: It was one poor reference, I think. A silly statement.
[10:12] <dwatkins> ah, people who don't get involved and just heckle, I guess
[10:12] <popey> only to counter your wild inaccuracies
[10:13] <balor> livingdaylight: It's important to be precise. Jono doesn't always refer to us as the peanut gallery
[10:13] <livingdaylight> but he is referring to OMGubuntu and similar how-to support sites as being in the gallery?
[10:13] <balor> livingdaylight: just once, and I believe it was just a bad phrase to use
[10:13] <popey> i dont
[10:13] <popey> we have people who constantly pick on us
[10:13] <balor> livingdaylight: that's the bit that's unclear to me
[10:13] <livingdaylight> balor, not always, good - never is better still
[10:13] <popey> people who have no interest in making the project better
[10:13] <popey> they just nitpick everything
[10:14] <popey> and the reference to OMG is more about the readership
[10:14] <popey> there's a lot of people who read OMG who are outside the ubuntu community
[10:14] <balor> popey: I've no idea who those people are. I suspect people who don't care about Ubuntu don't comment on it.
[10:14] <livingdaylight> If it wasn't for sites like OMGubuntu whos tutorials I've used countless times (note that is also not a precise term) I probably wouldn't be using Ubuntu now
[10:14] <popey> balor: thats flat out not true
[10:14] <popey> livingdaylight: nobody said omg is bad
[10:14] <popey> or that it should exist
[10:15] <balor> popey: Possibly, but I said that *I've* no idea who they are.
[10:15] <livingdaylight> popey, *shouldn't ?
[10:15] <popey> really?
[10:15] <balor> popey: Which is why I'm unhappy with the imprecision in jono's words
[10:15] <popey> yeah, typo, sorry
[10:15] <balor> popey: And unhappy with Mark referring to Fedora as Open Core
[10:15] <livingdaylight> it is left open for misterpretation at the very least. The tone is not positive towards these sites
[10:16] <balor> livingdaylight: I think that's the issue in a nutshell
[10:16] <livingdaylight> balor, I read that with open mind and immediately that is how it came across to me
[10:16] <balor> No-one thinks that Jono meant anything bade he just " left [things] open for misterpretation at the very least. The tone is not positive towards [some community] sites"
[10:16] <popey> its not the sites that are the problem
[10:17] <popey> its the readers/commenters
[10:17] <balor> popey: yes.
[10:17] <popey> or a subset of them
[10:17] <balor> popey: Certainly
[10:17] <balor> popey: It's the imprecision in the comment though.
[10:17] <popey> meh
[10:17] <popey> use your brain and interpret it :)
[10:17] <balor> popey: Yes.
[10:18] <balor> popey: My interpretation is that some of the Canonical peeps are tired after taking flack about the Banshee thing.  They're struggling to find revenue streams for Ubuntu. And when they find a source, someone crys foul.
[10:19] <popey> I'm sure thats part of it
[10:19] <balor> I suppose this is why big companies have PR
[10:19] <balor> and you only hear the PR line
[10:19] <popey> they still get that wrong
[10:19] <balor> It's easier to control the PR line and to not give an honest opinion
[10:19] <popey> see Apple -> "You're holding it wrong"
[10:19] <balor> yeah
[10:20] <livingdaylight> remember the head of BP at the height of the gulf debacle talking about his concern for "the little people" that was lol funny
[10:21] <livingdaylight> he flew out there to make it better and made it worse, lol
[10:21] <popey> this is my point, people might use phrases others find offensive or inadequate, or illogical or imprecise.
[10:21] <popey> we're a global community and people often pick apart every word someone says
[10:22] <popey> the Fedora Open Core thing.. well, he has a point
[10:22] <balor> really?
[10:22] <popey> Y'know I wouldn't be surprised if Red Hat shutdown their Source ftp site
[10:22] <balor> I think not
[10:22] <popey> I hear it's been discussed internally at redhat
[10:22] <popey> so only customers can get source, and not people like oracle / centos
[10:23] <popey> but thats just a rumour :)
[10:23] <balor> That's fine
[10:23] <balor> But Fedora is not RedHat
[10:23] <balor> As Ubuntu is not Canonical
[10:23] <popey> Without Red Hat, fedora would not exist
[10:23] <popey> same goes for Canonical, Ubuntu
[10:23] <MooDoo> +1
[10:24] <balor> popey: But the Open Core comment just sounds like sniping.
[10:24] <balor> Is Ubuntu "Open Core" for canonical?
[10:24] <popey> we dont have a server version you pay for
[10:24] <popey> so no
[10:24] <balor> Given that Canonical have more proprietary services than RedHat
[10:24] <popey> uh
[10:24] <popey> those are added services
[10:24] <popey> RHEL _is_ the product
[10:24] <balor> Which is Open Source
[10:24] <popey> hah
[10:25]  * popey looks for an iso
[10:25]  * balor looks at the definition of Open Source
[10:25]  * MooDoo hides his fedora cloak
[10:26] <popey> balor: open source and open core
[10:26] <balor> popey: So is Ubuntu "open core" in order to sell landscape?
[10:26] <popey> no
[10:26] <balor> (which is proprietary)
[10:26] <popey> you dont have to pay for landscape, there's no requirement to use it
[10:26] <balor> as opposed to SpaceWalk, which is open source
[10:27] <popey> but you _have_ to pay for rhel / up2date
[10:27] <balor> yeah
[10:27] <balor> it's a revenue stream
[10:27] <popey> oh well that makes it okay then
[10:27] <balor> How else do you make money?

[10:27] <balor> That's their business model.
[10:27] <balor> It's successful
[10:27] <balor> It's open-source
[10:27] <livingdaylight> problems always arise out of the need for money
[10:27] <popey> I'm going out
[10:28]  * balor writes his thesis
[10:28] <popey> need to take sam to opticians
[10:28] <livingdaylight> such a corrupting influence - every time
[10:28] <livingdaylight> popey, did you see rip-off britain last night? all about opticians in this country
[10:28] <popey> no
[10:29] <livingdaylight> lenses cost like 0.25p in reality....
[12:11] <Myrtti> iihhh http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5499289490/
[12:13] <dutchie> oh ffs
[12:13] <MooDoo> yummy
[12:14] <Myrtti> the only way of getting any in Finland
[12:15] <Myrtti> I haven't seen any dandelion burdock sold anywhere
[12:15] <scoundrel50> to  view my shares, I am entering smb://<Ip address> into the adress bar, it brings up the folders from the other computer, but it wask for three things, the username, Domain and password, but it doesnt matter what I add in there, it wont let me in. How can I find out what the name of the domain is on the other computer?
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/68999878@N00/2716319268
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: you can leave domain empty, and just use username/password usually
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: unless you're in a corporate network with Windows domain server etc.
[12:23] <scoundrel50> MartijVdS:Hi, I tried that, and it greys out the connect button.
[12:23] <scoundrel50> I'm at home
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: just keep what's there then (usually the workgroup name)
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: if the other end is a Windows machine, use a valid username/password on that machine
[12:24] <scoundrel50> Workgroup is in the Domain but I am wondering if its been added as something else somewhere. Keeping Workgroup isnt working either.
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: are you using a username/password that work on the Windows machine?
[12:26] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: right now I am logged into the Ubuntu partition of both machines, and have entered the name of the username and password of the other machine, but its not working
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: ah.. they're both Ubuntu machines :)
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: install "libpam-smbpass" on the "server" machine, then log out and back in
[12:27] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: was hoping that might have made things easier, but it doesnt seem so.
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: between two Ubuntu machines I'd use ssh, not smb
[12:28] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, one sec, I wii try now.
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: install the "ssh" package for it to work
[12:31] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: how do I install the ssh package, can it be done via the Terminal, right now I am using the Terminal to install the other mentioned pack, where do I get ssh package from. Plus, after this has been installed, will I be able to see the windows partition, on this machine from the other machine.
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: "sudo apt-get install ssh" will install the ssh package
[12:32] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: just tried that, and its installed,
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> "sudo" -> "do as superuser", "apt-get" (package tool), "install" (guess), "ssh" (package name)
[12:32] <scoundrel50> will just log off and be back in a minute, thank you
[12:35] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, so logged out, and back in again, what do I do next?
[12:35] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[12:36] <dwatkins> oioi brobostigon
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: "Connect to server" from the menu at the top
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: then select "ssh", put the IP of the other machine in the "server" field, and your username in the "username" field
[12:36] <brobostigon> afternoonings dwatkins
[12:37] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: it'll ask for a password when you click "Connect"
[12:37] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: folder and port can be left empty/default
[12:39] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: will that just allow me to see the Ubuntu file of the other machine, how will I be able to see the windows partition?
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: if the Windows partition on the other machine is mounted, you'll be able to browse to it
[12:40] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I'd use nfs if the computers are in a safe lan, ssh adds unneeded overhead
[12:40] <Myrtti> but to each of their own
[12:41] <scoundrel50> how can I mount the windows partition on the other machine? I can only view it, via Filoesystem,
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: nfs has a lot of setup-overhead
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: if you just want to copy files once in a while, nfs is overkill
[12:42] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: if I go to Places>Network, then click on the Windows Icon, it says unable to mount, failed to retrieve share list from server. I know the both machines can see each other, have worked that out. But cant get rid of that error.
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> I don't know
[12:45] <scoundrel50> Its really bugging me, it only developed that error, after upgrade to 10.04, but, my netbook had a fresh install, and it doesnt have that error.
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: did you enable a firewall?
[12:45] <scoundrel50> I now have 10.10 and the error is still there
[12:45] <scoundrel50> nope
[12:46] <scoundrel50> I need to get a firewall installed, but want to sort this forst before doing that
[12:48] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, tried that doing ssh, and it says connection refused by server
[12:49] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: does "nmblookup" work?
[12:49] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: (nmblookup name_of_other_machine_here)
[12:49] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: I just pinged the other machine, and its working
[12:49] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: please try nmblookup :)
[12:49] <scoundrel50> ok, one sec
[12:52] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, that is odd, this is the message I get when I enter that command.......The program 'nmblookup' can be found in the following packages:
[12:52] <scoundrel50>  * samba-common-bin  * samba4-clients Try: sudo apt-get install <selected package>
[12:52] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: I dont have samba4 installed, only samba3x
[12:53] <MartijnVdS> try samba-common-bin
[12:53] <MartijnVdS> that's samba 3
[12:53] <MartijnVdS> +part of
[12:55] <scoundrel50> it says failed to find, using both ipo address and computer name
[12:56] <scoundrel50> its odd becauwse I can ping the othjer machine
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: do you know how Windows networking ("samba") works internally?
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: there are a few good debugging guides on samba.org
[12:58] <scoundrel50> ok, will go take a look. I aqm not a geek, I can barely understand some of the terminology used with Ubuntu and windows, but will have a go thanks for the help anyway.
[12:59] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: Just to be sure.. you have two Ubuntu machines? Or one Ubuntu machine and a Windows machine?
[12:59] <scoundrel50> can I ask, how come I can ping the other computer, but nmblookup fails to find
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: nmblookup sends a request onto the network: "Who has this name?"
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: if nobody replies, or the reply doesn't reach your machine, it'll time out/fail
[13:01] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: I have an Ubuntu Netbook, and a Windows machine with ubuntu partitioned. I can see the windows partition using File System, but it wont mount.
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: is there an error message in that case?
[13:02] <scoundrel50> I can ping from both machines, and it works, but dont know why it wont share
[13:02] <scoundrel50> It says unable to mount, failed to retrieve filesystem
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> I have no idea, sorry
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> But it seems like you're mixing up two problems:
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> - Network access from netbook to other machine
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> - Windows disk partition access while running Ubuntu on the other machine
[13:04] <scoundrel50> Well, so far, I am just trying to see if I can get my two Ubuntu machines to see each other and share, but I can, the windows, I can try and get to work after I get the Ubuntu machines to see each other
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: the Ubuntu machines can use ssh to share files with each other
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: like I explained earlier
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: if you put "/" in the "Path" box in the "Connect to server" dialog box, you shuold be able to see the entire file system of the machine you connected to
[13:07] <scoundrel50> Its giving me an error using ssh, it says 'connection refused by server'
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: you have to install "ssh" on the machine you're connecting to
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> (i.e. the server :))
[13:13] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: sorry was on other machine trying to see if I could connect to this one, it just times out. Will see if I need to install ssh on it.
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> that sounds like a firewall issue, or maybe the same network issue that's preventing nmblookup from working
[13:17] <scoundrel50> so how do I find otu if it is a firewall issue. I dont remember adding a firewall.
[13:17] <scoundrel50> I just installed ssh on other machine, but still get time out error
[13:18] <scoundrel50> funny thing, I had no problems at all, before 10.4, worked perfectly, then upgraded, adn nothing since.
[13:18] <scoundrel50> 10.10 on both machines still can share
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: on the command line, try:
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> ssh -v -l username_on_other_machine other_machines_ip
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: and paste the output to pastebin
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> !pastebin
[13:20] <lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[13:20] <scoundrel50> ok, one sec
[13:27] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: sorry for taqking so long, its asking for authentification keys, passwords and I just screwed up, so have to start again, sorry
[13:28] <scoundrel50> ok, got something, will post to pastebin now, give me a sec.
[13:31] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: here is ther result.......http://paste.ubuntu.com/575969/
[13:35] <scoundrel50> Dont know what that did, but it did something that allwos me to view Ubuntu from this computer, I'll check to see if I can do the same from the other computer
[13:36]  * brobostigon decides to try and do a cm7 build for his htc dream himself.
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: you're logged in on the other computer
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: that means connecting using the "Connect to server" dialog should now work
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> (even after you log out -- I think it might have failed because of the "Are you sure you want to continue" bit)
[13:40] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, there is definately something wrong with this computer, I think its blocked somehow. I am trying that command from the other computer, and its not working
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: what do you mean by that?
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: it should execute commands as you type them
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> try things like "ls"
[13:42] <scoundrel50> ok, well, this computer which is the partioned windows computer that I am using Ubuntu from, can now see the netbook, and view its Ubuntu shares, using ssh.
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> s1
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> that sounds good :)
[13:44] <scoundrel50> So I go to try the same thing from the other computer to see if I can see this computers shares, and nothing, so i try that ssh command I used, and posted result to pastgebin with, adn after the command it jujst hangs and does nothing, so this computer is blocking other computers from seeing it, I think
[14:00] <scoundrel50> this is what I get for the other netbok http://paste.ubuntu.com/575975/
[14:02] <scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: do you know what this means as well? Your CPU appears to be lacking expected security protections. Please check your BIOS settings, or for more information, run:  /usr/bin/check-bios-nx --verbose
[14:04] <Synth_sam> Hi all
[14:04] <balor> scoundrel50: Are these netbooks connected via wifi?  If so, does the router block any ports?
[14:04] <Synth_sam> I need to install 10.4.2 on an external drive for my father
[14:05] <Synth_sam> When I tried it before I used the desktop disk and it overwrote the MBR of sda
[14:05] <scoundrel50> baloe: the netbook is connected via wifi, but I have no idea if the router blocks any ports how do I find that out.
[14:05] <Synth_sam> Think I can stop that happening with the alternate?
[14:06] <scoundrel50> balor....sorry for the typo in your name
[14:06] <balor> scoundrel50: (1) can you ping the other machine, (2) look at the wifi router configuration - they normally have a web admin panel
[14:07] <scoundrel50> balor: Hi, yes I can ping both machines
[14:07] <balor> scoundrel50: Can you, say, nmap one machine from the other, to see what ports are open?
[14:08] <balor> scoundrel50: for example "nmap 192.168.1.1"
[14:08] <scoundrel50> ok, will try from the other machine to see what ports are open, is that all I have to put into the terminal nmap?
[14:09] <balor> scoundrel50: and the ip address.  There are graphical nmap tools, but this is the quickest
[14:09] <balor> scoundrel50: You should see what ports are open then.  If you can't see the port you expect to be open then (a) it's not open, or (b) the router is doing something strange.
[14:10] <BigMac> does anyone know when firefox 3.6.15 will be available in the repositories?
[14:13] <scoundrel50> oki, here is what happened when I nmap'd this machine pastebin.ubuntu.com/575980
[14:14] <Synth_sam> did you try -PN?
[14:14] <balor> scoundrel50: If they're both actually online, then it looks as if your wireless AP is blocking access between them.
[14:15] <scoundrel50> balor: so how do i get around that
[14:16] <scoundrel50> Synth_sam: is that something I need to try, and if so, how?
[14:16] <balor> scoundrel50: On my wireless AP, I just went into the management console (a web page) and turned off anything that looked like it was "smart" or "security"
[14:16] <Synth_sam> scoundrel50: run nmap again with -PN as options on the command line before the ip address
[14:16] <balor> scoundrel50: Like Synth_sam said, you could try "nmap -PN ip"
[14:18] <balor> scoundrel50: But basically, it doesn't look like an Ubuntu problem.  You'd find the same issue with Windows or OS X as the router is not routing traffic correctly
[14:19] <scoundrel50> balor: ok, I'm trying that from the netbook to this computer, and it seems to be hanging and doing nothing.
[14:19] <scoundrel50> can I ask though, why it should have worked ok before upgrading,
[14:19] <balor> scoundrel50: -PN can take a while to give back data
[14:19] <balor> scoundrel50: Ah.  Didn't know that.  If it worked before upgrade, it should work after upgrade.  Maybe it is an Ubuntu issue
[14:20] <balor> scoundrel50: Do you have a firewall maybe?  did it get turned on in the upgrade?
[14:20] <scoundrel50> I also found this after one of the things somebody else asked me to do, via the terminal, would you have any idea what this means? Your CPU appears to be lacking expected security protections.
[14:20] <scoundrel50> Please check your BIOS settings, or for more information, run:
[14:20] <scoundrel50>   /usr/bin/check-bios-nx --verbose
[14:21] <scoundrel50> I have no idea about the firewall, how do I find that out
[14:23] <scoundrel50> um, this is what I got from nmap -PN pastebin.ubuntu.com/575983
[14:24] <Synth_sam> scoundrel50: the "host is up" notification doesn't mean anything because -PN told it to assume that the host is up
[14:25] <Synth_sam> it didn't find any open ports so it's at the same point
[14:25] <scoundrel50> so why is this computer blocked from sharing
[14:25] <scoundrel50> really annoying
[14:26] <Synth_sam> is 192.168.0.3 a ubuntu machine? (I wasn't here for the start of the convo)
[14:28] <Synth_sam> scoundrel50: it's a windows machine? What version of windows?
[14:28] <scoundrel50> XP
[14:28] <Synth_sam> hmm
[14:30] <scoundrel50> These problems have only occured since upgrading. it happened on the Netbook as well, and that wqas only fixed in the end with a fresh install.
[14:30] <scoundrel50> I was hoping I would have to do that on this machine
[14:30] <Synth_sam> upgrading what?
[14:30] <Synth_sam> windows?
[14:30] <scoundrel50> upgrading from 9.04 to 10.04 ubuntu. From 10.04 sharing stopped
[14:31] <scoundrel50> any form of sharing stopped
[14:31] <Synth_sam> the 10.04 machine is sharing and you can't access from windows, or the other way round?
[14:33] <scoundrel50> sorry, I should have explained even more. I have upgraded since 10.04, to 10.10 on both machines. The netbook I decided that I would do a complete fresh inistall of 10.10, but have just upgraded with this machine. From this afternoon, I finally managed to be able to see from this machine using ssh my netbook shares, but from the netbook, this machine is blocked out
[14:34] <scoundrel50> Sorry, been on here for hours, forget who has seen what
[14:35] <scoundrel50> It seems, my only option with this computer, might be another fresh install, if I cant get this machine to share. I didnt want to do that really.
[14:35] <Synth_sam> scoundrel50: just to check if you have the ubuntu standard firewall running, try "sudo ufw status"
[14:36] <scoundrel50> it says active
[14:36] <scoundrel50> and gives a small list
[14:36] <Synth_sam> what are the list
[14:36] <Synth_sam> they are the open ports
[14:37] <Synth_sam> you need 139 and 445 for samba
[14:37] <scoundrel50> one sec I'll mpost to pastebin
[14:38] <scoundrel50> http://paste.ubuntu.com/575995/
[14:38] <scoundrel50> how did that get started?
[14:38] <Synth_sam> ok, so that is set to leave the correct ports open for samba on the computer that you're on at the moment
[14:39] <scoundrel50> can I stop it, and see if my problems get sorted?
[14:39] <Synth_sam> yes
[14:39] <Synth_sam> "sudo ufw disable"
[14:39] <scoundrel50> ok, one sec, will try
[14:39] <Synth_sam> it will work
[14:40] <Synth_sam> that is set to allow those ports for the network 192.168.1.0 - 192.168.0.254
[14:40] <scoundrel50> I'll just go see if I can see this computer from the other one, brb
[14:40] <Synth_sam> sorry
[14:40] <Synth_sam> 192.168.1.254
[14:40] <Synth_sam> and your other computer has an ip address 192.168.0.3
[14:41] <Synth_sam> so the rules need changing if you want to allow that computer access
[14:41] <Synth_sam> if you have ufw active on all of the computers with incorrect permissions, this will explain why you have a problem
[14:41] <scoundrel50> just disabled it, and I can see this computer from the other one
[14:42] <Synth_sam> bingo, if you want to set up the actual rules to keep your firewall on, I can walk you through that too
[14:42] <scoundrel50> so, its the ufw firewall on here that is blocking other computers. So how do I fix that, so I can keep the firewall going, and view the shares?
[14:43] <scoundrel50> sorry, was typing, cant type and read
[14:43] <scoundrel50> would that be possible please
[14:43] <scoundrel50> its take about a year to work this out
[14:43] <Synth_sam> right, if you don't have computers in the subnet 192.168.1.0/24 then you can delete those rules first
[14:43] <Synth_sam> "sudo ufw delete <num>"
[14:43] <Synth_sam> where number is the line number in the list from before
[14:44] <Synth_sam> run ufw status to get the numbers again every time you do it
[14:44] <scoundrel50> ok, I am realloy sorry, but you have lost me now
[14:44] <Synth_sam> then do this "sudo ufw allow from 192.168.0.0/24 to any port 139"
[14:45] <Synth_sam> that allows traffic from other computers to port 139 on your computer
[14:45] <Synth_sam> other computers in the subnet listed
[14:46] <Synth_sam> i.e. 192.168.0.1/2/3/4/5/6 etc
[14:46] <Synth_sam> then do the same for port 445
[14:46] <Synth_sam> that's samba sorted
[14:46] <Synth_sam> any other services you want?
[14:46] <Synth_sam> 22 for SSH
[14:46] <scoundrel50> um, can I ask, I am a bit lost, from the start. I have no clue at all about the firewall
[14:47] <Synth_sam> ok, the default rule for the firewall is to deny traffic
[14:47] <scoundrel50> ok
[14:47] <Synth_sam> so you add rules as exceptions
[14:47] <Synth_sam> the last pastebin you did said that you have ports 137,138 and 139 open
[14:48] <scoundrel50> first off, I disabled the firewall, I need to enable it again, how?
[14:48] <Synth_sam> sudo ufw enable
[14:48] <scoundrel50> ok, done that
[14:48] <scoundrel50> the prots now
[14:48] <scoundrel50> ports, sorry
[14:50] <scoundrel50> what do I need to do now?
[14:51] <Synth_sam> right, delete the rules that exist already by running this command: "sudo ufw delete 1" three times
[14:51] <scoundrel50> ok,
[14:52] <scoundrel50> done
[14:52] <Synth_sam> run sudo ufw status
[14:52] <Synth_sam> any rules listed?
[14:53] <scoundrel50> nothing listed, just says status active
[14:53] <Synth_sam> ok, so now you can add exceptions like this: "sudo ufw allow from 192.168.0.0/16 to any port 139"
[14:54] <Synth_sam> (from 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.254.254)
[14:54] <Synth_sam> do the same command for port 445
[14:54] <Synth_sam> that should allow both ubuntu and windows access on your local network
[14:54] <scoundrel50> ok, will give it a try
[14:55] <mgdm>  /16
[14:55] <mgdm> oops
[14:55] <scoundrel50> what is in brackets do I add at end of port?
[14:56] <Synth_sam> no
[14:56] <Synth_sam> I was telling you the ip range that applied to
[14:56] <Synth_sam> that's the range that 192.168.0.0/16 refers to
[14:56] <scoundrel50> ojh ok, now I understand, just did the first one, about to do the second
[14:57] <scoundrel50> just added those, will go check the other computer to see if I can see the shares, one sec
[15:01] <scoundrel50> um, something stopped it working again
[15:02] <Synth_sam> hmm, strange
[15:03] <scoundrel50> Its definately the firewall, I just dissabled it again, and I can see this pc from the netbook
[15:03] <scoundrel50> so, its the rules
[15:05] <scoundrel50> funny thing, in Network, I now have the Ubuntu Icons and one os for this computer, but it still says when I click on it, unable to mount
[15:05] <scoundrel50> the new Icons werent there half hour ago
[15:06] <scoundrel50> ok, just checked this computers Icon from the Netbook, clicked on it and it opened up the shares, so i can see. Its how it used to work
[15:06] <Synth_sam> well you can try adding ports 137 and 138 too and see if that makes any difference
[15:07] <scoundrel50> oh wow, just gone into the Places Network on nthis machine, and the other computers Icons are there.
[15:08] <scoundrel50> I'll try add the other two ports one sec, to see if it works
[15:08] <scoundrel50> yep, I can see the netbook shares from Network.
[15:08] <scoundrel50> ok, about to add the other ports, one sec
[15:09] <Synth_sam> so the netbook probably doesn't have ufw running then
[15:10] <scoundrel50> it doesnt look like, I'll check as soon as I check this one, I just enabled ufw again, one sec
[15:10] <scoundrel50> I need to log out and back in again to check one sec
[15:10] <scoundrel50> brb
[15:15] <scoundrel50> Synth_sam: back again, right, I can view this computers Ubuntu files from the netbook, but I have the Netbooks Icon still in the Network, but the unable to mount error is still coming up, so its the ports going out that are blocked by the sounds of things.
[15:15] <Synth_sam> scoundrel50: what is the error that mount gives?
[15:16] <scoundrel50> Unable to mount location - Failed to retrieve share list from server
[15:17] <scoundrel50> if I stop the fireguard, I can see the shares, so its the fireguard
[15:18] <scoundrel50> is there another port that allows sharing
[15:19] <scoundrel50> I just checked with the ssh way, and I can see the neetbook from here, but I cant view this computer
[15:20] <scoundrel50> if I stpped ufw, how secure would I be?
[15:21] <Synth_sam> if you have a router with a firewall between your network and the internet, that's fine
[15:21] <Synth_sam> but if you use your computer on a public network you will want ufw running
[15:21] <Synth_sam> but you can do that when you move your computer
[15:21] <Synth_sam> just run "sudo ufw enable"
[15:24] <scoundrel50> Its just me at home
[15:24] <Synth_sam> yes, but you have the firewall on your router switched on?
[15:25] <scoundrel50> funny thing is though, if I click on the icons for desktop or pictures when trying to view the other computer, I still have to log in, but, no matter what I try to use, I cant log in.
[15:25] <scoundrel50> oh yes, I havbe that one switched on
[15:25] <scoundrel50> so can actually get into the other computer
[15:25] <scoundrel50> still cant, sorry
[15:26] <scoundrel50> very frustrating
[15:26] <scoundrel50> we are getting there
[15:26] <Synth_sam> the computer you're trying to get into is ubuntu?
[15:26] <scoundrel50> but I just work out now what username, Domain and password I need,
[15:27] <scoundrel50> yes, just trying to access Ubuntu at the minute
[15:27] <Synth_sam> if it's a ubuntu computer, you need to have ran smbpasswd on that computer to activate your user for samba
[15:27] <scoundrel50> how do I do that?
[15:27] <Synth_sam> you said that this was working before though right?
[15:28] <scoundrel50> yes
[15:28] <scoundrel50> before upgrading to 10.04
[15:35] <scoundrel50> so how do I set up smbpasswd
[15:36] <scoundrel50> um, somebody I met on here set it up for me
[15:38] <scoundrel50> Oh well, thank you any way, I really appreciate the help.
[15:38] <Synth_sam> right, try "sudo smbpasswd -e <yourusername>
[15:38] <Synth_sam> "
[15:38] <Synth_sam> see what that says
[15:39] <scoundrel50> for which computer, this one or the one I am trying to view?
[15:39] <Synth_sam> the one you're trying to view
[15:42] <scoundrel50> it said enabled username
[15:42] <Synth_sam> that it was enabled, or that it has enabled it?
[15:42] <Synth_sam> if it was the latter, then try connecting again
[15:43] <scoundrel50> it said Enabled user
[15:44] <Synth_sam> hmm
[15:44] <scoundrel50> and I still get the Password required box appear
[15:45] <Synth_sam> yeah, you will
[15:45] <Synth_sam> it's very strange
[15:45] <scoundrel50> but its not allowing me to enter a password, doesnt matter how I do it, it isnt accepted.
[15:46] <Synth_sam> try (on the computer you're trying to connect to) to run smbpasswd as the user you're trying to connect as (i.e. no sudo), it will set your password for samba for that user
[15:46] <scoundrel50> ok, one sec
[15:50] <scoundrel50> would work, it said filed to connect to computer
[15:51] <scoundrel50> ok, in smb.conf I just discovered the workgroup for this computer is called ATLANTIS I wonder if I entered that on the Netbook, if it might work, one sec
[15:52] <scoundrel50> ok, that worked, where ATLANTIS came from, I have no idea.
[15:53] <penguin42> you found atlantis!
[15:53] <scoundrel50> Now I have to find the smb.conf file on the netbook, and see if I can get that to work
[15:53] <scoundrel50> yep
[15:53] <scoundrel50> lol
[15:53] <scoundrel50> I feel like I am in the twilight zone, to be honest, lol
[15:54] <scoundrel50> but, I think we have got there
[15:54] <scoundrel50> brb back, when I find the name of the workgroup for the netbook
[15:56] <knightwise> connectbot is one cool app  doing irc through ssh from my htc evo
[15:57] <knightwise> now all i need is a bigger keyboard
[15:57] <Synth_sam> knightwise: nifty, but I can imagine the pain of typing on a phone
[15:58] <knightwise> allthough the next size up is a tablet
[15:59] <Synth_sam> yes, but you still have to type with touchscreen then
[15:59] <MartijnVdS> touch typing
[15:59] <MartijnVdS> *hide*
[15:59] <scoundrel50> Synth_sam: ok, this is bizzare, why is it that smb.conf file isnt automatically installed, when smaba is installed. That is both computers now, that didnt have the smb.conf file there. it means I have ti uninstall and reinstall again to ge the file, and go through all the process of sharing again. Whys is that?
[16:00] <knightwise> thats ok  i am wicked fast on the ipad
[16:00] <Synth_sam> scoundrel50: I have absolutely no idea, are you sure you're looking in the correct place?
[16:00] <Synth_sam> /etc/samba/smb.conf
[16:00] <scoundrel50> oh yes, /var/lib/samba/ no file
[16:01] <knightwise> but havung my servers cli on my phone is the bomb
[16:01] <scoundrel50> ok, that is different to what I was told yesterday#
[16:01] <Synth_sam> zing!
[16:01] <Synth_sam> well, mine is installed in etc
[16:01] <scoundrel50> based on what I was told yesterday, I had to go and uninstal and reinstll samba
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: that's not necessary, unless you didn't install it from the package?
[16:03] <knightwise> sudo apt-get install samba
[16:04] <scoundrel50> well, that is what I was told to do yesterday, but never mind.
[16:05] <scoundrel50> ok, this is very strange,
[16:06] <scoundrel50> on thi9s computer there are quite a few files in the /etc/samba/ direcotry including smb.conf plus a directory colled tis.
[16:06] <scoundrel50> in the netboopk there are only two files, one is a smb.conf file.
[16:07] <scoundrel50> strange thing, having put a smb.conf file into /var/lib/samba that was when it worked. The file in /var/lib/samba has a different name to the on etc/samba/
[16:07] <scoundrel50> I am totally confused now
[16:09] <scoundrel50> I dont know, all I know is what I was doing yesterday, what what I was told to do. Can somebody tell me, in etc/samba/ what you have in there,
[16:11] <Synth_sam> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/576022/
[16:14] <scoundrel50> I have 7 files and a directory
[16:16] <scoundrel50> ok, strange that this is, where I have added the smb.conf file to .var/lib/samba/ it has the workgroup ATLANTIS in there, in /etc/samba/ it whas workgroup in there.
[16:16] <scoundrel50> as the workgroup
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: you usually don't have to touch /var/lib/samba "by hand"
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> config files go in /etc
[16:17] <scoundrel50> but I cant get the get this computer to open up the netbooks shares
[16:17] <scoundrel50> Its only what i did that somebody from here told me to do yesterday
[16:18] <scoundrel50> I dont have a clue, I wouldnt have know where to look
[16:19] <scoundrel50> whatever happened, I can view this computer, using ATLANTIS as the workgroup, which is found in the /var/lib/samba bit
[16:19] <scoundrel50> ok, so what do I do now?
[16:21] <Synth_sam> what do you mean? you're sorted aren't you? you can see your files?
[16:21] <scoundrel50> I can now see this computers files, from the netbook, but not the netbook from here, I can see the folders, but I cant log in
[16:22] <scoundrel50> it wont accept my details
[16:23] <scoundrel50> which is what i been trying to tell you,
[16:23]  * brobostigon returns
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> Run away! It's brobostigon! :)
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> (hi :P)
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> only 20 hours left until my 20km run (first official "race"/event)
[16:24] <brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS :)
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> http://www.20vanalphen.nl/uploads/images/H6XwRysalAkUZ-EOUJwtjw/20km.pdf
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> ^ that's the route
[16:35] <g5236m> !EBrarian The Three Investigators 13 - The Secret of the Crooked Cat (US) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.28 MiB
[16:35] <g5236m> !EBrarian The Three Investigators 14 - The Mystery of the Coughing Dragon (UK) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.10 MiB
[16:35] <lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[16:35] <g5236m> !EBrarian The Three Investigators 14 - The Mystery of the Coughing Dragon (US) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.30 MiB
[16:35] <lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[16:35] <lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[16:36] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good luck, :)
[16:38] <DJones> !piracy | g5236m
[16:38] <lubotu3`> g5236m: piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
[16:39] <mgdm> DJones: I suspect it's a bot
[16:39] <DJones> mgdm: I doubt it, its aimed at a channel on undernet
[16:42] <Myrtti> !list
[16:42] <lubotu3`> This is not a file sharing channel (or network); be sure to read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type « /msg ubottu !bot »
[16:42]  * Myrtti ponders
[16:43] <Baikonur> lubotu3`: you're not ubottu, your'e lubotu3`
[16:43] <lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[16:44] <shauno> I've tried that line at work.  didn't get me far.
[16:46] <Baikonur> apostrophe's are hard
[16:51] <scoundrel50> workgroups for shares, do they have to be the same for all computers, such as the main computer is ATLANTIS, will I need to change the workgroup of the netbook to ATLANTIS as well, if so, how can I open it to change it.
[16:59]  * brobostigon is having bad luck with natty today, ireevocable full screen graphics atricfacts, ireetrieveable only by reboot. :(
[17:03] <DJones> Oh dear, this might cause some complaints https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-buttons-go/
[17:07] <bigcalm> Fear change!
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: fear annoying change
[17:08] <MartijnVdS> ("stop telling me how to use my computer")
[17:10] <bigcalm> Quite
[17:11] <bigcalm> I wonder what KDE looks like these days
[17:11] <mgdm> I used to run KDE for one month in six to see what it was up to
[17:12] <mgdm> I've not done that for a while
[17:13] <kirrus> Can anyone check I'm not being stupid with this regex.. I need to match this format "/2010/03/03/blarg/" as briefly as possible.. is this correct? "^\/20.\/$"
[17:14] <scoundrel50> Just got to say, thanks to those who helped, I have now got it working........
[17:24] <HazRPG> ah shoot I must have missed cbx333
[17:24] <HazRPG> hi all
[17:33] <shauno> mornin HazRPG
[17:33] <HazRPG> shauno: indeed ^^
[17:38] <HazRPG> hmm, just downloaded a few demos for the c64... which I'm assuming based on the history I read were coded by individuals who owned c64's, and just decided to colab. together...
[17:38] <HazRPG> but I can't seem to get it to play any the other info off the disk
[17:38] <HazRPG> I can only see the intro
[17:39]  * HazRPG keyboard mashes all keys
[17:40] <mgdm> in a lot of cases the intros *were* the demos
[17:40] <DJones> In a lot of cases, the demos were better than the game :)
[17:41] <DJones> s/demos/intros
[17:42] <HazRPG> oh
[17:42] <bigcalm> mgdm: been having a look at symfony recently?
[17:43] <mgdm> bigcalm: Oh heck no - someone else pointed me at it
[17:43] <bigcalm> Hehe
[17:43] <HazRPG> its just under the "contents" show several different things for the disk images, I just assumed there would be more on them
[17:43] <mgdm> with quotes like that I'm not likely to be a user ;)
[17:43] <bigcalm> I think who ever wrote that missed the point
[17:43] <bigcalm> Awww
[17:43] <bigcalm> One weirdo does not make a project
[17:43] <mgdm> that's the project's official documentation
[17:44] <mgdm> and it's not just that
[17:44] <mgdm> HazRPG: LOAD "$",8
[17:44] <mgdm> if you're using a proper C64 or an emulator, that'll get you the disk directory
[17:44] <mgdm> then choose the file you want and do LOAD "FILENAME",8,1
[17:44]  * mgdm is having flashbacks to a happy time
[17:45] <mgdm> LOAD "*",8,1 just loads the first thing on the disk, which is what I suspect happened
[17:45] <mgdm> of course, I could be missing the point :)
[17:46] <HazRPG> hmm, LOAD "$",8
[17:46] <HazRPG> shows nothing
[17:46] <mgdm> hmmm
[17:55] <HazRPG> well at least this demo tells you how to switch the song :)
[17:56] <HazRPG> mgdm: I'm guessing these demo use to be on floppies?
[17:57] <mgdm> yeah
[17:57] <mgdm> or shared via BBSes
[17:57] <HazRPG> original floppy or 3.5?
[17:57] <mgdm> 5.25", which is neither
[17:58] <DJones> If they were C64, I would expect they were on cassette tape originally
[17:58] <mgdm> either or
[17:58] <mgdm> the C64 had both
[17:58] <DJones> Mine only ever had the cassette brick
[17:58] <HazRPG> hmm, didn't realise there was 5.25" floppies
[17:59]  * bigcalm suddenly feels old
[17:59] <HazRPG> I'm sure I have norton on an 8"
[17:59] <mgdm> DJones: I got a 1541 fairly late on
[17:59] <HazRPG> somewhere.....
[17:59] <mgdm> HazRPG: 5.25 were the most common before 3.5
[17:59] <mgdm> 8" was older and far rarer
[18:00] <DJones> mgdm: I'd possibly switched to an Apple II by that point
[18:00] <HazRPG> hmm, I only ever saw 8" and 3.5"
[18:01] <DJones> HazRPG: The Apple II's used 5.25 floppies by default
[18:01] <HazRPG> mgdm: BBSes?
[18:01] <mgdm> Sheesh, you're a young'un
[18:01] <HazRPG> DJones: ah, I never saw the Apple II
[18:01] <mgdm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system :)
[18:02] <DJones> With the 14.4K modem if you were lucky :)
[18:02] <mgdm> I never had a modem
[18:02] <HazRPG> my first experience with the internet was in the 90's
[18:03] <mgdm> I didn't think the Apple II was that common in the UK
[18:03] <HazRPG> or even a modem for that matter
[18:03] <mgdm> well, so was mine
[18:04] <DJones> mgdm: I knew quite a few peple with them, plus the college I was at  used them as the main computer equipment
[18:04]  * HazRPG recalls the fun of connecting directly to someone's PC via a modem :)
[18:04] <mgdm> Our schools had BBC Micros and Masters :)
[18:04] <HazRPG> mgdm: so did ours :)
[18:04] <DJones> they weren't released at the tim
[18:05] <DJones> Probably the end of my 2nd year at college before they were released
[18:07] <HazRPG> man I miss the good ol' days
[18:11] <HazRPG> seems I missed a lot back in the home computer days
[18:11] <HazRPG> :(
[18:12] <HazRPG> probably why I like irc too much, first thing I really used when internet started becoming wide-spread
[18:14] <HazRPG> anyone here ever used a web-crawler?
[18:17]  * bigcalm hates spiders
[18:18]  * popey chomps his graze box
[18:18] <popey> and the contents :)
[18:18] <bigcalm> Heh
[18:18] <bigcalm> Off to Wolverhampton for chinese buffet in a bit. Must resist graze nibbling
[18:18] <popey> ooo, which chinese?
[18:18] <popey> the big one?
[18:19] <bigcalm> Yep
[18:19] <popey> in the town centre
[18:19] <bigcalm> :)
[18:19] <popey> nommy
[18:19] <bigcalm> It's our fave
[18:19] <popey> understandable!
[18:19] <bigcalm> The Imperial
[18:19] <popey> didnt realise you lived near wolves
[18:19] <popey> thats it
[18:19] <popey> been there a few times now
[18:19] <bigcalm> About 30 min drive from here
[18:19] <popey> where are you?
[18:19] <bigcalm> Nearish to Telford
[18:19] <popey> ah
[18:20] <bigcalm> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Church+Aston,+Newport,+UK&aq=0&sll=52.758198,-2.3795&sspn=0.008194,0.018539&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Church+Aston,+Newport,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.675549,-2.289963&spn=0.262705,0.593262&z=11
[18:20] <popey> ooooo, i want chinese now!
[18:20] <bigcalm> Hehe :P
[18:22] <bigcalm> I've never been to Holyhead, I wonder if Hayley would be up for a drive tomorrow :)
[18:26] <bigcalm> Nope, work to do. Ho hum
[18:27] <bigcalm> popey: did you break mc?
[18:28] <daubers> evening
[18:28] <bigcalm> Afternoon
[18:29] <shauno> kinda given up on mc again until it gets an update that doesn't crash non-stop :(
[18:30] <bigcalm> Wow, that sucks
[18:30] <popey> bigcalm: i saw a tweet that the login server is now up
[18:30] <popey> which implies it was down
[18:30] <shauno> 11821 Segmentation fault      java -Xms2G -Xmx2G -jar MinecraftLauncher.jar
[18:30] <shauno> real	0m45.441s
[18:30] <shauno> apparently the last session I have logged lasted 45 seconds before it died
[18:30] <shauno> score!
[18:31] <bigcalm> Tried a different java?
[18:31] <bigcalm> re that is
[18:31] <Myrtti> I hadn't even realised that the new launcher even works
[18:31] <shauno> I'm on osx .. I don't believe there's many options for java
[18:31] <bigcalm> Ah
[18:33] <shauno> there may be an su^WOracle-blessed dist somewhere rather than the vendor one, but I'd rather not break stuff I have that does work
[18:36] <daubers> shauno: Oracle redirects you to the Apple Update service :)
[18:36] <daubers> shauno: Real PITA with the supermicro IPMI stuff, as you end up in a loop going backward and forward
[18:37] <HazRPG> haha this demo is mega
[18:37] <shauno> glad I haven't tried that then.  the vendor package works fine with the package I use at work, so I leave it alone :)
[18:37] <HazRPG> although there a few samples of grease in this
[18:43] <HazRPG> were most of the demos seriously made by the Swedish, or have I just come across a site where they uploaded to?
[18:43] <Myrtti> argh.
[18:44] <Myrtti> I've got the dandelion burdock sodastream concentrate - but I'm not at my sisters (who has the machine)
[18:44] <Myrtti> NEEEDDDD D&B
[18:44] <HazRPG> Myrtti: wow your has a sodastream machine :o
[18:45] <Myrtti> yeah, she has been working as a bouncer at the local football club and they don't get paid with money - they get stuff from the football team sponsors
[18:46] <Myrtti> so she bought the most expensive sodastream machine the local white goods merchant had
[18:46] <Myrtti> with the gift certificate she got
[18:46] <HazRPG> nice
[18:46] <Myrtti> oh well, perhaps I'll just have some strawberry-rhubarb cordial
[18:47] <Synth_sam> Hi all
[18:47] <mgdm> have you made fizzy milk yet?
[18:47] <Synth_sam> Think I've managed to get Irssi sorted
[18:47] <mgdm> I can't believe I missed that trick when i had one when I was younger
[18:48] <Myrtti> mgdm: doesn't it go sour?
[18:48] <mgdm> Not sure, never tried
[18:49] <Myrtti> carbon dioxide is known as "carbonic acid" as well in Finnish...
[18:49] <Myrtti> especially when it's dissolved into water
[18:50] <Synth_sam> Myrtti: carbonic acid is carbon dioxide dissolved in water (it creates acid)
[18:50] <Synth_sam> precisely
[18:50] <Myrtti> Synth_sam: carbon dioxide ice is called carbonic acid ice here
[18:51] <Synth_sam> yes, because it's ice with carbonic acid in it
[18:51] <Myrtti> *shrug* live and learn
[18:51] <Synth_sam> carbon dioxide reacts with water in an equilibrium
[18:51] <Synth_sam> water and carbon dioxide on one side, carbonic acid on the other
[18:51] <Synth_sam> (I'm a Chemist, if you hadn't guessed)
[18:51]  * daubers waits for the chicken to come out of he oven
[18:52] <Myrtti> I used to love chemistry at school but I sucked in maths
[18:52] <Synth_sam> I'm doing a PhD, so the maths has calmed down again
[18:52] <Myrtti> so I moved away from my plan of physics and chemistry and moved over to biology and history :-P
[18:52] <Myrtti> (and ended up being a computer geek)
[18:53] <Myrtti> oh well
[18:53] <Synth_sam> haha, yeah, that's my hobby ;)
[18:54] <Myrtti> bah, I need to fix my webcam again with sugru, my first hack didn't quite work out
[18:54] <Synth_sam> who's the webcam made by?
[18:55] <Myrtti> I have no idea, it's Skype branded
[18:55] <Myrtti> I've made little hooks on the feet to keep the rubber band in place
[18:56] <Synth_sam> meh, I've got a logitech one, the quality in ubuntu is terrible
[18:56] <Synth_sam> it's Quickcam pro 9000
[18:56] <Synth_sam> can get 720p in windows, but just seems to work a lot worse in ubuntu
[18:58] <daubers> chicken out! Just needs to rest for 15 minutes
[18:59] <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5499672993/ :->
[19:00] <Synth_sam> and we moan about the amount of snow we had this winter....
[19:00] <Myrtti> yeah, we have to plough the roofs of some buildings here
[19:00] <Myrtti> this year people have actually gotten killed by snow dropping from the roof :-(
[19:00] <Synth_sam> :S
[19:01] <zleap> HazRPG, hi,  sent you cd's yesterday,  sorry for the delay been busy
[19:02] <HazRPG> zleap: you sent me CD's?
[19:02] <zleap> yeah, er i think it was you, we chatted a whole back
[19:02] <zleap> said i would send you a ubuntu cd
[19:02] <HazRPG> zleap: hmm... cumbria?
[19:02] <zleap> think so
[19:03] <HazRPG> wow, didn't realise I'd given my address to anyone :S
[19:03] <zleap> hmm
[19:03] <zleap> i think it was you anyway
[19:03] <zleap> sent em yesterday
[19:06] <HazRPG> okay, I always thought the "fire" button was CTRL or SPACEBAR
[19:06] <HazRPG> what button does this game want me to press >_<
[19:06] <HazRPG> what is "fire" button >_<
[19:06] <shauno> the red one on the joystick :)
[19:07] <mgdm> might be enter
[19:07] <mgdm> depends on your emulator's setup
[19:10] <zleap> hi
[19:12] <Synth_sam> zleap: hi
[19:12] <zleap> hows you
[19:12] <HazRPG> nope...
[19:12] <Synth_sam> pretty good, drinking champagne, you?
[19:13] <HazRPG> shauno: I don't know how I forgot that, shows the last time I cracked open any of my old machines
[19:13] <zleap> relaxing,  got back from a lug meet an hour ago
[19:14] <Synth_sam> lug?
[19:14] <HazRPG> Synth_sam: linux user group
[19:14] <zleap> yeah
[19:14] <Synth_sam> ahh
[19:14] <Synth_sam> that makes sense :)
[19:15] <zleap> Linux is slowly getting around
[19:15] <zleap> esp ubuntu,
[19:15] <Synth_sam> yeah, I finally made the jump at 9.10
[19:15] <Synth_sam> haven't looked back
[19:15] <zleap> cool
[19:16] <Synth_sam> well, still have to use windows at work for some things
[19:16] <HazRPG> shauno: well this sucks, I can't get it so play the game
[19:17] <HazRPG> I thought selecting the numpad would have given me something, but it hasn't
[19:17] <zleap> yeah  thats a case in a lot of places,  its the next upgrade cyclke you can look in to where windows can be replaced
[19:17] <HazRPG> was really looking forward to playing Metal Warrior
[19:17] <Synth_sam> zleap: yeah, unfortunately, there is some proprietary software for controlling analytical instruments that can't be replaced
[19:18] <HazRPG> Synth_sam: you might be surprised ;)
[19:18] <zleap> ah so very specialist
[19:18] <Synth_sam> Yeah, I'm a Synthetic Chemist
[19:18] <zleap> i would have thought that linux would be better in a critical environment
[19:18] <HazRPG> Synth_sam: nice :)
[19:18] <Synth_sam> There are linux versions of some of them, but they're quite expensive
[19:18] <zleap> from the people that make the equipment
[19:19] <zleap> ah,  typical eh
[19:19] <Synth_sam> and the university has licenses for the windows software
[19:19] <HazRPG> Synth_sam: I use to enjoy chemistry at school, but they wouldn't allow me to pursue it because they felt my computing skills was better in Saudi :/
[19:20] <Synth_sam> ahh
[19:20]  * zleap likes chem too
[19:20] <Synth_sam> I liked chemistry before I did a degree in it
[19:20] <Synth_sam> nothing better to make you tired of it
[19:20] <Synth_sam> but I liked the practical side
[19:20] <HazRPG> yeah I did a degree in computing, wish I'd left it as a hobby
[19:20] <zleap> me too
[19:21] <Synth_sam> haha, funny how that works
[19:21] <bigcalm> This is why I didn't consider photography as a job
[19:21] <HazRPG> Synth_sam: don't get me wrong, I love working with computers, but I'd rather I hadn't done a degree in it
[19:21] <HazRPG> well HND*
[19:22] <Synth_sam> HazRPG: the problem I had with the degree was the amount of maths
[19:22] <Synth_sam> Chemistry is fun until you start studying the Schrodinger equation
[19:22] <Myrtti> I could be a potter.
[19:22] <Synth_sam> (Quantum mechanics)
[19:22] <zleap> i thought that was more physics
[19:22] <Myrtti> I'm still bitter I went for the mediatechnology instead of it
[19:23] <HazRPG> I love the theories about Quantum mechanics, but I don't think I could ever get my head around them
[19:23] <zleap> i have heard of that,l  is that about a cat in a box adn it being half dead or half alive
[19:23] <Synth_sam> zleap: It helps to understand the fundamentals to be able to apply them.  It's Chemical Physics, or Physical Chemistry
[19:24] <zleap> ok
[19:24] <Synth_sam> Now my maths go about as far as calculating quantities for reactions
[19:24] <Synth_sam> :D
[19:24] <Synth_sam> much better
[19:24] <zleap> same here i think
[19:24] <zleap> hi issyl0
[19:24] <cbx333> hey there everyone
[19:24] <zleap> hi cbx333
[19:24] <Synth_sam> hi cbx333
[19:24] <HazRPG> cbx333: welcome back :)
[19:25] <Guest20283> Hi zleap!
[19:25] <Guest20283> Gargh.
[19:25] <zleap> hows you
[19:25] <HazRPG> cbx333: noticed your comments earlier this morning when I got up this afternoon xD
[19:25] <cbx333> hi zleap, Synth_sam, HazRPG
[19:25] <cbx333> heheh
[19:25] <cbx333> awesome
[19:25] <nigelb> Guest20283: hey, interesting blog post
[19:25] <cbx333> I'm thinking of adding a new section - will put it up on the wiki
[19:25] <HazRPG> cbx333: I'm guessing ali1234 mentioned me in his git fork?
[19:25] <HazRPG> cbx333: or did you check the logs?
[19:26] <nigelb> issyl0: You're not the only person I've known going through that kind of hell ;)
[19:26] <zleap> i need to do more on the forums
[19:26] <cbx333> i didn't see you mentioned
[19:26] <cbx333> just checked the logs now
[19:27] <HazRPG> cbx333: ah, its just you said thanks for the input to me and ali1234.
[19:27] <issyl0> nigelb: heh, thanks.
[19:27] <cbx333> ahh yeh
[19:27] <HazRPG> cbx333: was wondering how you saw I'd done any input when I hadn't uploaded anything yet
[19:27] <cbx333> hehehe
[19:27] <cbx333> i meant the "other" input
[19:27] <nigelb> issyl0: At least that explains why I see you less on IRC.  College.
[19:27] <HazRPG> cbx333: ah
[19:28] <issyl0> nigelb: well, kind of.  Not that there's much to do at college, as you've read, but yes, that is one reason.  :-)
[19:28] <HazRPG> cbx333: well, I don't know what ali put down, but shauno, ali and I thought the page number scheme is a bit iffy - but couldn't work out latex to change it
[19:28] <issyl0> nigelb: PM?
[19:28] <nigelb> issyl0: sure :)
[19:28] <zleap> lol http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx has 107 errors
[19:29] <cbx333> hahah
[19:29] <cbx333> I'll figure it out if you tell me what you want to do
[19:29] <HazRPG> cbx333: did a bit of a play with it and managed to get it to change, but it would error our other parts of it, so we figured it'd be best if we just mentioned it to you - but I'm guessing the book was more important then the formatting of it at the moment :P
[19:29] <Synth_sam> zleap: 107 errors where?
[19:29] <zleap> ran  it through the validator (W3 .ORG(
[19:30] <cbx333> haha
[19:30] <Synth_sam> lol
[19:30] <cbx333> all input is good input
[19:30] <zleap> or maybe its due to it being an asp rather than html page
[19:30] <Synth_sam> you have to think, microsoft designed IE, they shouldn't be trusted with the internet
[19:30] <HazRPG> cbx333: well from what I can see, if you change {memoir} to {article} it changes the page numbers to a better format, however like I said when I compiled the book back to pdf, it sort of came up with a few errors on compile time (but hitting enter would make it continue)
[19:31] <HazRPG> and the pdf looked funny for the first few pages
[19:31] <HazRPG> cbx333: if I figure it out, I'll fork and upload it :)
[19:32] <HazRPG> cbx333: its just strange to have the pages numbered alternating left and right, and then on the bottom for chapters
[19:32] <Synth_sam> HazRPG cbx333: what's the LaTeX file?
[19:33] <zleap> just tried validator on w3.org all ok
[19:33] <HazRPG> especially if its going to be distributed as pdf (most will probably have it on their ebook reader)
[19:33] <HazRPG> but even on print it will look odd if your looking for a specific page
[19:33] <HazRPG> Synth_sam: hold on
[19:33] <Synth_sam> k
[19:34] <HazRPG> Synth_sam: gitt.tex
[19:34] <HazRPG> if you change {memoir} to {article} it puts all the page numbers at the bottom
[19:34] <HazRPG> but I'm not sure if using article as a template messes up a few other things on that LaTeX file
[19:34] <Synth_sam> HazRPG: What document are you referring to, I have no point of reference.
[19:35] <HazRPG> Synth_sam: https://github.com/cbx33/gitt
[19:35] <Synth_sam> nm, google solved that
[19:35] <Synth_sam> thanks
[19:37] <cbx333> https://github.com/cbx33/gitt/wiki - HazRPG, see my new comments about After Hours sections
[19:37] <cbx333> I want to give the reader steps to take it further if they want to
[19:37] <cbx333> all in one place
[19:37] <cbx333> I think it's important that they understand the technical mechanisms
[19:38] <cbx333> HazRPG, I will look at the page numbering
[19:38] <cbx333> tbph once I had a PDF that looked a little like the odt I had, fonts etc....I kinda stopped working on the LaTeX itself
[19:38] <cbx333> but I would like to put some little icons in the breakout boxes
[19:38] <cbx333> and shade them lightly with a grey percentage
[19:38] <cbx333> lemme add that to the TODOs
[19:39] <cbx333> feel free to raise an "issue" on github about the page numbering
[19:39] <HazRPG> cbx333: looks good to me :)
[19:39] <cbx333> sweet
[19:40] <cbx333> it can be like John's over the weekend reading :)
[19:40] <cbx333> I would call extra curricular activity
[19:40] <brobostigon> has anyone experienced this in natty, when the whole screen would turn into one huge graphical artifact, its happened severaltimes today, and i canonly recover, by forceing reboot via pwer button.
[19:40] <cbx333> but that could be taken several ways
[19:41] <cbx333> now lemme delve into the page numbering
[19:41] <HazRPG> cbx333: sure no problem I will :)
[19:41] <bigcalm> brobostigon: can you ssh into the laptop from another machine and reboot from there?
[19:42] <HazRPG> cbx333: yeah I do like the after hours idea :)
[19:42] <brobostigon> bigcalm: i havent tried that yet.
[19:42] <cbx333> HazRPG, interesting - in my version, the page numbers are always centered on every page
[19:42] <cbx333> lemme do a fresh git clone and try
[19:42] <HazRPG> hmm
[19:43] <cbx333> ooooooh
[19:43] <brobostigon> bigcalm: i will get my n800 and connect it up, so when it happpens, i will try and restart xorg.
[19:43] <cbx333> I think there is a difference
[19:43] <HazRPG> cbx333: check the link I PM'ed you with
[19:44] <HazRPG> cbx333: hmm, so are you doing this in odt and saving as latex?
[19:44] <cbx333> no no
[19:44] <cbx333> I started the book in odt
[19:44] <brobostigon> bigcalm: ok, i will try that next time it hapens.
[19:44] <HazRPG> ah
[19:44] <cbx333> HazRPG, ahhh yes i see your problem
[19:45] <cbx333> what happens if you run the make pdf a second time
[19:45] <cbx333> I have noticed that if you only run it once, the ToC isn't created for a start
[19:45] <cbx333> it may be that a second run fixes the header too
[19:45] <HazRPG> cbx333: hmm, I'll give that a try
[19:45] <Myrtti> or you can run tex for the first and pdf for the second
[19:46] <Myrtti> faster that way
[19:46] <cbx333> ahh
[19:46] <cbx333> Myrtti, I am still new to tex
[19:46] <cbx333> but that makes sense
[19:46] <HazRPG> cbx333: ah, see this is where the problem starts I get this error on make pdf "! LaTeX Error: File `fullpage.sty' not found."
[19:46]  * Myrtti has worked with latex professionally for a year few years back
[19:46] <HazRPG> and it asks for a filename
[19:47] <cbx333> hmm
[19:47] <HazRPG> to which I just hit enter
[19:47] <cbx333> ahhh
[19:47] <zleap> you need to add tyhe style to the latex preable
[19:47] <cbx333> mine doesn't have that
[19:47] <cbx333> gotta go put hte little one to bed
[19:47] <zleap> ok
[19:47] <cbx333> mine compiles without any errors
[19:47] <cbx333> what ubuntu you on?
[19:47] <cbx333> I'm on 10.10
[19:47] <cbx333> need to see what other packages for tex i have installed
[19:47] <zleap> lol @ the microsoft website being run through w3c validator
[19:47] <HazRPG> cbx333: 10.10
[19:48] <cbx333> hmm
[19:48] <HazRPG> I apt-get texlive
[19:48] <ali1234> cbx333: i have some general notes on my thoughts while reading the book so far
[19:48] <zleap> i got texlive with the uk tug membership
[19:48] <cbx333> ali1234, can ya pm me.....only cos I'm going afk for a little while to bath the little one
[19:49] <cbx333> it seems I have a large number of tex packages
[19:49] <cbx333> HazRPG, I'll give ya a list when i get back
[19:49] <HazRPG> zleap: I thought texlive was free/foss
[19:49] <zleap> it is
[19:49] <cbx333> maybe do an packages.ubuntu.com search for that file
[19:49] <zleap> but you get a copy when you join the uk tex user group
[19:49] <cbx333> and also - maybe we should take this to a different channel - don't want to go too off topic for people
[19:49] <zleap> there should be a latex channel
[19:50] <Myrtti> texlive-latex-extra
[19:50] <zleap> yeah
[19:51] <HazRPG> Myrtti: is that the channel, or is that the file I might be missing?
[19:51] <Myrtti> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/all/texlive-latex-extra/filelist
[19:52] <mgdm> *grumble*
[19:52]  * mgdm launches whoever patched Maverick's GCC into space
[19:53] <penguin42> what's it doing to you?
[19:53] <mgdm> actually it's probably openCV that is failing, by using a fragile version detection thing
[19:54] <HazRPG> Myrtti: thanks :)
[19:55] <zleap> hi MadLeomon
[19:55] <Myrtti> when I was doing latex stuff I found the file listings for packages a lifesaver
[19:55] <Myrtti> that, or apt-file
[19:56] <Synth_sam> cbx333: I just built that file and page numbers are centred
[19:57] <mgdm> Myrtti: Oh yeah, I remember that
[19:57] <Synth_sam> gives a lot of badbox errors and warnings about obsolete options
[19:59] <penguin42> Myrtti: apt-file is great
[19:59]  * bigcalm skips off to Wolverhampton for Chinese buffet :D
[20:00] <Myrtti> damnit 503
[20:01] <shauno> anyone know how to get firefox to stop using F5 for refresh?
[20:02] <Synth_sam> shauno: not off the top of my head, F5 is pretty standard for refresh, what's the issue?
[20:03] <shauno> it claims ^R is the shortcut, and I have F5 bound elsewhere
[20:03] <shauno> but ff is capturing it as refresh :/
[20:08] <cbx333> yeh Synth_sam I got a lot of warnings too
[20:08] <cbx333> not too sure how to deal with them
[20:08] <cbx333> not overly happy with some of the hyphenation either
[20:09] <Synth_sam> microtype is pretty good for that
[20:10] <Synth_sam> allows adjustment of intraword spacing
[20:10] <HazRPG> cbx333: ah yes... nevermind, ignore my issue - seems it was because I was missing a package
[20:10] <HazRPG> Myrtti: again thanks :)
[20:11] <cbx333> np
[20:11] <HazRPG> this looks so much nicer
[20:11] <cbx333> can you tell me what package so I can add it to the instructions
[20:11] <Myrtti> texlive-latex-extra
[20:12] <cbx333> thanks Myrtti
[20:12] <HazRPG> might be worth putting on the "Building the Book" section that you need texlive and texlive-latex-extra
[20:12] <cbx333> Myrtti, can you tell me the best way to modify the make file to do the tex bit first, and then the pdf generation so it orks first time
[20:12] <cbx333> yup
[20:12] <HazRPG> oh, seems you've already asked that :P
[20:12] <cbx333> just about to do that
[20:13] <Myrtti> cbx333: I ended up doing a script that does it all because I ran latex2html and stuff too
[20:13] <ali1234> cbx333: add a dependency on the tex target to the pdf target
[20:15] <cbx333> ok
[20:15] <cbx333> i don't have a tex target :)
[20:15] <cbx333> that's probably the issue
[20:16] <cbx333> you know I can't even remember the command to just build the tex now
[20:17] <Myrtti> latex
[20:17] <Myrtti> :-)
[20:18] <cbx333> hahaha
[20:18] <cbx333> ko
[20:18] <cbx333> oooh
[20:18] <cbx333> if i run it with latex i get an error
[20:19] <cbx333> cannot determine size of graphic
[20:19] <cbx333> no bounding box
[20:19] <cbx333> darn it
[20:19] <Synth_sam> you have pdf images
[20:19] <Myrtti> you can ignore some of the errors
[20:19] <cbx333> i do - to keep the pdf size down
[20:19] <cbx333> and make them scale nicely
[20:19] <Myrtti> if it finishes the run without breaking with errors
[20:19] <cbx333> ahh i see
[20:19] <cbx333> anyway to force it to ignore those errors?
[20:20] <Myrtti> it stops if the errors are fatal
[20:20] <Synth_sam> you can't have pdf images with latex can you? I thought that you could only have eps and ps with latex
[20:20] <Myrtti> jpg and png are ok in pdf
[20:20] <HazRPG> shauno: what was it you said I needed to work on for my chiptune?
[20:21] <Synth_sam> Myrtti: yes, pdflatex is more forgiving, but what are the filetypes for latex?
[20:21] <cbx333> Synth_sam, well I have them and it seems to work
[20:21] <Synth_sam> ok
[20:21] <Synth_sam> I'd just heard that before
[20:21] <Synth_sam> my bad
[20:21] <Synth_sam> I'd try the microtype package with the pdf
[20:22] <Synth_sam> it will probably reduce the amount of hyphenation at line-ends
[20:22] <Synth_sam> I'd run it myself and let you know, but I'm updating my texlive at the moment
[20:23] <cbx333> ahh ok
[20:23] <cbx333> pdflatex seems to recompile the tex anyway, is that right Myrtti
[20:23] <Myrtti> right
[20:23] <HazRPG> oh wow, c64 has netplay :o
[20:23] <Myrtti> the latex run is only so that it makes the auxiliary files for the actual pdflatex run
[20:24] <Myrtti> so that the pdflatex has the files for making the toc and stuff
[20:24] <Myrtti> if you can ignore the image errors - perhaps by forcing latex to ignore the filetype, the pdflatex will still work
[20:24] <Myrtti> it's been a while since I've worked with latex though
[20:25] <Baikonur> only latex i work with is pants
[20:25] <Baikonur> no, wait
[20:25] <cbx333> heheh
[20:26] <cbx333> ko
[20:31] <cbx333> thanks again all for your help
[20:31] <cbx333> really appreciated
[20:31] <cbx333> I hope this week I can start banging out some more large sections of text
[20:31] <Synth_sam> compiled with microtype
[20:31] <Synth_sam> will upload now
[20:32] <Myrtti> just as long you don't upload the compiled latex on the vcs :-D
[20:33]  * Myrtti facepalmed several times at work for a clueless workmate doing it over and over and over again
[20:33] <Myrtti> and when I complained, she uploaded the zip files containing the pdf
[20:33] <cbx333> haha
[20:33] <Synth_sam> http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~pcxse1/gitt.pdf
[20:33] <cbx333> yeh that's why i don't do anything like that
[20:34] <cbx333> Synth_sam, looks good
[20:34] <Synth_sam> cbx333: no hyphenation in the first 20 pages at least
[20:35] <cbx333> ok
[20:35] <cbx333> that's cool
[20:35] <cbx333> Synth_sam, see my pm
[20:36] <Synth_sam> k
[20:36] <Synth_sam> I just added /usepackage[final]<microtype> to the preamble
[20:37] <cbx333> what changes did that introduce
[20:37] <cbx333> the lack of hyphenation?
[20:38] <cbx333> HazRPG, did the headers and page numbers disappear after your extra installation?
[20:38] <cbx333> brb
[20:38] <Synth_sam> cbx333: it allows pdflatex to change the spaces betweeen letters in words with more control, so in general, it won't need to hyphenate
[20:39] <Synth_sam> right, I'm off, ttyl
[20:39] <shauno> good lord, have they not taken that 'file sharing' thread out back and shot it yet?
[20:40] <HazRPG> cbx333: yes, it did :)
[20:40] <HazRPG> cbx333: I must say, I do like the book - keep meaning to learn how to use git properly
[20:41] <HazRPG> I've only ever used it for cloning out stuff with TortoiseGit
[20:41] <HazRPG> but I do have projects in mind, and would like them hosted on such sites for others to help pitch in :)
[20:44] <HazRPG> shauno: ?
[20:47] <shauno> there's a thread on the mailing list that needs to be put out of it's misery :)
[21:01] <HazRPG> shauno: ah
[21:01]  * HazRPG goes to look
[21:03] <HazRPG> shauno: isn't there another way to share files on linux then using samba?
[21:03]  * HazRPG recalls something about ssh
[21:09] <daftykins> HazRPG: sshfs ?
[21:09] <daftykins> also, hi ^_^
[21:14] <cbx333> HazRPG, yeh, i mean that's the whole reason for writing it - I want to show it being used in a practical environment - I find a lot of the time, I'll read a technical book and forget how to do pretty much everything I read
[21:16] <daubers> HazRPG: nfs :)
[21:17] <daftykins> fwiw, though it may not surprise anyone, windows 7 is utterly useless as a file server :>
[21:17] <HazRPG> cbx333: it is a great idea :)
[21:17] <HazRPG> daftykins: that's the one
[21:17] <HazRPG> daubers: nfs?
[21:17] <daftykins> though i don't really agree with SSHFS, depending upon what someone's trying to achieve
[21:18] <daubers> For sharin files in Linux
[21:18] <HazRPG> daftykins: doesn't surprise me tbh
[21:18] <daftykins> it might be my hardware, but when saturating gigabit (as in actually 120MB/sec+) it still makes the 'server' service go a bit wobbly sometimes
[21:21] <daubers> daftykins: I'm surprised you can get as high as 120MB/s on Gigabit, highest I've seen is 117
[21:21] <shauno> I don't tend to think of sshfs as being a permenant fixture
[21:22] <daftykins> daubers: yeah, SSD -> gigabit LAN -> 3ware RAID 5
[21:22] <daftykins> and back again
[21:23] <daftykins> easy peasy
[21:23] <daubers> daftykins: I've gone 16 disk raid6 -> 16 disk raid6 and get 117 ish max
[21:24] <daftykins> might just be the Windows numbers i see then
[21:24] <daftykins> it's not consistent
[21:24] <daubers> heh
[21:24] <daubers> fair enough
[21:24] <daftykins> :D
[21:24] <daftykins> it goes 110-125
[21:24] <daubers> That'll be Windows doing it's standard amount of lying then :)
[21:24] <daftykins> lets have a go right now
[21:24] <daftykins> fo sho ^_^
[21:25] <daftykins> 122, 137, 120. 112, 119...
[21:25] <daubers> Theoretical peak is 125MB/s, so unless you're running with no overhead, I somehow doubt thats possible :)
[21:25] <daftykins> yeah you're about right then for an average
[21:25] <daftykins> i see your point but it's a little nitpicky ;)
[21:26] <daubers> daftykins: Sorry, thats my job though :p
[21:26] <daftykins> heh
[21:26] <daftykins> indeed
[21:26] <daftykins> i've not really pushed the guy's 12TB RAID6 one
[21:26] <daftykins> i was only just around there for the first time yesterday, in weeks
[21:26] <daubers> I spent that a few months trying to get from an average of 117 to 119, and just about achieved it by cheating a little, so would have been damn impressed if you could best it
[21:26] <daftykins> as the IT teaching i'm doing to help out is thieving my time
[21:28] <daubers> I've got 8 of the new intel SSDs turning up soon
[21:28] <daubers> Someone wants to do 2k format video editing on shared storage
[21:29] <daubers> So he can use ~128 spinny disks, or 8 2.5" SSDs :)
[21:29] <daftykins> cor
[21:29] <daftykins> actually the media department at my college want something soon
[21:31] <daftykins> i think they want to try and do some shared editing
[21:31] <daftykins> anywho, mates over, bbl
[21:36] <shauno> now this is starting to get confusing.  trying to figure out how to remove the 'launchpad' icon from 10.7's dock.  ubuntu's dominating the google results :)
[21:37] <daubers> daftykins: Get them to give me a ring if they get stuck :)
[21:46] <ali1234> shauno: have you tried clicking the icon with "ctrl-alt-cmd" pressed? (whatever that means)
[21:47] <ali1234> shauno: or this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1104263
[21:48]  * brobostigon Haz chocolate buttons, :)
[21:48] <penguin42> classic mac, 3 keys held and a mouse button
[21:48] <penguin42> brobostigon: Oooh
[21:48] <shauno> ali1234: yeah, it just keeps coming back on it's own :(
[21:50] <shauno> think that one's going on radar, 'tis a bit pants
[21:50] <shauno> it was more the namespace collision that I found interesting tho
[21:51]  * brobostigon noms and make agreeable noises.
[21:52] <mossa> arab
[21:55] <jpds> wut.
[21:55] <brobostigon> weird.
[22:10]  * HazRPG grumbles
[22:10] <HazRPG> either this document is too old and doesn't work with the most current version, or I'm doing something terribly wrong :/
[22:11] <HazRPG> D0y should change the volume with y = number from 0-9, but its not working :S
[22:12] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh hi :)
[22:12] <HazRPG> ah seems I was using it wrong
[22:13] <brobostigon> HazRPG: evening, :)
[22:13] <HazRPG> ...but its setting the volume for ALL channels
[22:13]  * HazRPG grumbles more
[22:13] <HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
[22:14] <HazRPG> must be a way to make something sound lower
[22:15] <brobostigon> frequency lower?
[22:15] <HazRPG> yeah I'm messing with sustain/release to see if that does it
[22:15] <brobostigon> ah,
[22:15] <HazRPG> ooo, yeah :D
[22:15] <HazRPG> BB works better than FF :D
[22:15] <brobostigon> BB ?
[22:17] <HazRPG> hex codes
[22:17] <brobostigon> ah.
[22:18] <HazRPG> Sustain/Release: BB
[22:18] <HazRPG> I had it set to FF originally
[22:18] <HazRPG> although the problem now is that although its lower, the tone fades away quicker
[22:18] <HazRPG> maybe BF might be better
[22:18] <brobostigon> ok.
[22:19] <HazRPG> brobostigon: messing with GoatTracker
[22:19] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i admit to be somewhat clueless.
[22:19] <HazRPG> brobostigon: GoatTracker is in the repo :)
[22:19] <HazRPG> its an old c64 tracker
[22:19] <HazRPG> to make songs :)
[22:19] <HazRPG> in old-school form :)
[22:19] <brobostigon> ok.
[22:20]  * HazRPG likes chiptunes
[22:21] <HazRPG> brobostigon: if you wanna try it out, I can send you the tutorial/manual type thing I managed to find (after several hours of digging)
[22:22] <HazRPG> brobostigon: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64 is what I have so far
[22:22] <brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe another day, iam quite tired.
[22:23] <HazRPG> I've put the tutorial in that directory for you, so you can nab it from there :)
[22:23] <brobostigon> HazRPG: could you remind me earlier inanother dayplease. my brain is scrambld.
[22:23] <brobostigon> thank you.
[22:23] <HazRPG> yeah no problem :)
[22:24] <brobostigon> thank you, :)
[22:24]  * HazRPG gives out free hugs
[22:24]  * brobostigon hugs HazRPG 
[22:25] <HazRPG> hurray!
[22:25] <HazRPG> also put the sample songs I've managed to find when digging through the intersurf-highway, so that you can load them up and see how they did things too :) - but I'll remind you another night
[22:26] <ali1234> goattracker comes with examples in /usr/share/doc/goattracker/examples
[22:28] <HazRPG> ali1234: wow, I really need to learn to look in there more often
[22:28] <HazRPG> still not 100% keyed up on this whole thing yet
[22:29] <HazRPG> but I haven't touched windows in the last 2 months now :)
[22:29]  * HazRPG feels proud
[22:29] <HazRPG> managed to avoid it for a year before, but the minute I was back in for whatever reason at the time... I was stuck in there again (for some god forsaken reason)
[22:30] <HazRPG> although the difference between now and the last few times, I'm actually dedicated to learning the ins and outs of my system
[22:31] <HazRPG> I do plan to start coding for multi-platform too (or at least learn how to), etc
[22:31] <HazRPG> part of my new years resolution - better myself in the linux environment
[22:34] <HazRPG> ali1234: thanks for the heads up
[22:37] <zleap> hi
[22:37] <zleap> just commented on a website for youg people that want to volunteer, if anyone can add to my comments feel free at http://www.vteamdevontorbay.org/v-is-coming-to-an-end/#comment-15
[22:37] <HazRPG> zleap: hi :)
[22:37] <zleap> hi
[22:46] <HazRPG> wow, was there seriously no books published about the trackers in the 80's
[22:46]  * HazRPG might be looking for the wrong thing
[22:46] <penguin42> trackers?
[22:46] <HazRPG> audio trackers
[22:47] <HazRPG> for c64, etc
[22:47] <zleap> hmm
[22:47] <zleap> speccy user here :)
[22:47] <zleap> anyone up for single channel sound beep beep
[22:47] <HazRPG> zleap: it'll have had a tracker made for it at one point
[22:48] <zleap> yeah
[22:48] <penguin42> Model B here - 76489 yeh!
[22:48] <zleap> i did have a sound sampler once
[22:48] <HazRPG> see I had a MZ-721
[22:48] <HazRPG> ... sadly no one ever remembers those
[22:48] <zleap> and coded hey jude from a book then had to de bug the program from the book sio it played hey jude at ther right speed
[22:49] <HazRPG> hehe
[22:49] <zleap> coding from books was fun
[22:49] <zleap> yeah played it too fast
[22:49] <zleap> it was also the first 2 lines of the song,
[22:50] <zleap> which given hey jude is actually quite long
[23:05] <daftykins> daubers: the funny part is IT support won't have anything to do with the departments that use Macs, so this technician guy is gonna do some of their IT side stuff, but the thing is he doesn't really work with computers, he only does the techniciany side of things behind media
[23:05] <daftykins> he's planning on buying a mac mini as a directory services sorta server right now as he was telling me something about Apple stopping selling XServes or something 0o
[23:06] <daftykins> which is just a mistake imo
[23:09] <HazRPG> heh
[23:12] <daftykins> i've been tempted to get an ION 2 nettop for my third LCD again... hang it on the back maybe as a second system to permanently run Ubuntu
[23:17] <daftykins> this is hilarious to me, from the Apple website
[23:17] <daftykins> regarding OS X Server on a mac mini
[23:18] <daftykins> "After selecting Mac mini with Snow Leopard Server, you can add up to 8GB of memory, external storage for RAID 5 data protection, Apple Remote Desktop software, an external SuperDrive, and other options."
[23:18] <daftykins> basically saying, after buying you can plug all this stuff into it externally, to make it act like a REAL server >_<
[23:23] <ali1234> yes, it clearly makes more sense to buy a dell server with windows or rhel and then spend 6 months and god knows how much money getting certified to use it
[23:24] <zleap> windows
[23:25] <AlanBell> evening all
[23:26] <cbx333> right I think that's me out for the night - a large amount of changes to GITT tonight :)
[23:26] <cbx333> not done any proofing on it yet :)
[23:26] <daftykins> ali1234: err... actually my point is that it'd be better to get the Mac Pro server so components can be easily removed if found faulty.
[23:27] <daftykins> i bet if the mac mini goes down, you're somewhat screwed
[23:27] <ali1234> well yeah
[23:27] <daftykins> ali1234: but of course you missed that, given you assumed my perspective :)
[23:27] <ali1234> same is true whether you have to send for a new video card, or a whole new machine
[23:27] <daftykins> no because those things can be sourced locally in an emergency
[23:28] <daftykins> whereas somewhere here, with no Apple store, is a tad out of reach
[23:29] <ali1234> really? they sell mac pro motherboards in your local PC shops?
[23:29] <daftykins> ok, on a saturday night i really can't be bothered with your nitpicking attitude
[23:29] <ali1234> i dunno why i said video card before... server doesn't need video card
[23:32] <ali1234> well, ok then, don't nitpick others if you don't like it
[23:33] <daftykins> you're just covering up the fact that you assumed incorrectly to begin with
[23:33] <ali1234> and btw, original point still stands - if this was really mission critical stuff, it wouldn't be managed by somebody with no IT experience
[23:34] <ali1234> in which case it actually would make sense to do what i said instead of using macs
[23:34] <daftykins> but that was sarcasm...
[23:34] <ali1234> but since it's clearly not even been considered, it's clearly not important to have things like SLA
[23:35] <daftykins> no, public sector in education, the IT department has free reign to sit on their hands
[23:36] <daftykins> but anyway, my original moan was that the guy considered a mac mini to run two departments off :D i don't think that's a good idea
[23:43] <daftykins> funny, you went quiet.
[23:43] <ali1234> in that guy's situation (ie i don't know how to diagnose PC hardware problems) i would do exactly the same thing
[23:44] <daftykins> well, he has got some contact and advice from the IT support department that won't touch the macs
[23:44] <daftykins> so hopefully they'll steer him sensibly
[23:44] <daftykins> but what about if you *do* know, you'd still say it's fine to have a tiny little SFF system running a 60+ client network?
[23:44] <ali1234> if they won't support a mac pro for him, then the logical choice is the mini
[23:45] <daftykins> i'm not sure i follow
[23:45] <daftykins> they're not going to support either
[23:45] <ali1234> right
[23:45] <daftykins> so why buy one more susceptible to failure?
[23:47] <ali1234> who says the mini will be more susceptible to failure?
[23:50]  * hamitron likes small devices for servers
[23:50] <ali1234> i'm going to assume he knows better than to run the thing sandwiched in between a dvd player and a skybox like most people probably do
[23:51] <hamitron> cheaper and when they break, just throw away
[23:51] <daftykins> hahaha
[23:51] <hamitron> but a mac isn't cheap ;)
[23:51] <daftykins> neither would the storage be that they acquire eventually for their video editing
[23:51] <daftykins> it raises a good question though
[23:52] <daftykins> i certainly don't know what solution i'd go with to cater for say, even one class of maybe 20-30 macs doing video editing
[23:52] <daftykins> i'd advise sticking to local editing followed by copying back to a large RAID array really
[23:52] <daftykins> but even then it's less than ideal, conceptually
[23:53] <hamitron> local ftw
[23:53] <hamitron> pointless centralising, just to cause a headache
[23:53] <daftykins> indeed
[23:54] <daftykins> i was thinking of fragmentation + the wear and tear on a bunch of mechanical disks of a load of students editing directly from it
[23:54] <hamitron> the thought makes me wanna cry :/
[23:54] <daftykins> :D
[23:55] <daftykins> i was trying to put in my 2p, but the guy works on another site at the other end of the island, i only met him once in the restaurant
[23:55] <ali1234> editing from a central server is madness
[23:55] <daftykins> having catering students run a restaurant one floor down from your classrooms = win \o/
[23:55] <ali1234> you need specialist hardware for that
[23:55] <daftykins> indeed
[23:55] <daftykins> he did say something about 40 grand
[23:56] <hamitron> do video editing tools work well remotely?
[23:56] <hamitron> never had much to do with them
[23:57] <mgdm> the video editing system at work is *insane*
[23:57] <hamitron> just considering when the application is running on the server
[23:57] <mgdm> but we are a TV station
[23:57] <daftykins> mgdm: :O which one?
[23:57] <daftykins> mgdm: any ideas what said system is like?
[23:57] <hamitron> television X?
[23:57] <mgdm> hamitron: No.
[23:58] <hamitron> staff discount?
[23:58] <hamitron> ah, nvm
[23:58] <hamitron> ;)
[23:58] <mgdm> daftykins: expensive. Fast. :)
[23:58] <daftykins> :)