[01:42] Hi all [01:43] Hi. [15:56] * MichealH waves [15:59] Hello AndrewMC, CensoredBiscuit, Crisco, Dykam, hakimsheriff, laknath_, MadnessRed, MichealH, Omega. [15:59] hi [16:00] Hello [16:00] Shall we decide on a chair? [16:00] Sure. [16:00] * MichealH gets out the Tourbot :P [16:00] @random MichealH Muscovy [16:00] MichealH: (random [] []) -- Returns a randomly grabbed quote, optionally choosing only from those quotes grabbed for . is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself. [16:00] MichealH: Error: "random" is not a valid command. [16:00] :/ [16:01] haha [16:01] Faail [16:01] Anyway.... [16:01] Mind if I just do it? [16:02] Yeah sure [16:02] :P [16:02] Ok, everyone. [16:02] I thought i confged the bot right :P [16:02] So here's out general topic list: http://openetherpad.org/ZAhT8DafQ3 [16:02] Title: EtherPad: ZAhT8DafQ3 (at openetherpad.org) [16:02] Muscovy, #startmeeting? [16:02] Oh. [16:02] #startmeeting [16:02] Meeting started Sun Mar 6 16:02:43 2011 UTC. The chair is Muscovy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell. [16:02] Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting. [16:02] :P [16:02] #link http://openetherpad.org/ZAhT8DafQ3 [16:02] o/ [16:02] Title: EtherPad: ZAhT8DafQ3 (at openetherpad.org) [16:03] Ok, I'll skip down to the website first, just to gave everyone a moment to see the ping. [16:03] Firstly, sorry about the ups and downs. [16:03] My webhost switched yet again, and it seems the new company isn't any good. [16:04] I believe philw mentioned he could give free hosting to nonprofits. [16:04] This means the site is potentially delayed, sorry guys! [16:04] I ca get it pushed out soon thoguh [16:05] Philw does hosting for the Ubuntu Youth team [16:05] Good day. [16:06] I'll tlak to him when he comes on, then. [16:06] hakimsheriff, He sure does alot :) [16:06] I can see If I can 'lure' him here [16:07] Ok, so back to the top, naming and menu conventions. [16:07] The names of applications seem to be getting a little confusing. [16:07] Muscovy, ^^ [16:08] The main issue as I see it is default applications are called after what they are, and non-defaults are called by name. [16:08] Oh, hello phillw. [16:08] Muscovy, Im good at 'luring' people here :P [16:08] here as requested, but not yet awake. [16:08] We were wondering if we could host the tour's site with you, as a nonprofit. [16:09] no problems at all with that. [16:09] Ok, so what do we do? [16:09] MichealH: has the keys to my server area. [16:09] Muscovy, If you dropbox me some files I can get the uploaded :) [16:10] Muscovy, Or you could just email them [16:10] I'll just send you a tarball. [16:10] Sure [16:10] To make it easier, what's the document root they'll be going in? [16:10] I can then uncompress it onto the server [16:10] (relevant for the php) [16:10] Muscovy: We should discuss all our options. [16:10] Muscovy, I beleive it will be ubuntu-tour.org [16:11] :P [16:11] ubuntu-tour.org is taken though. [16:11] It should still work fine, i guess [16:11] Muscovy, The dir would be ~/ubuntu-tour.org/ on the sever [16:11] And the username? [16:12] Php doesn't understand ~. [16:12] MichealH: you just need to create the folder under public_html and have masked redirect send it there from the DNS [16:12] Omega, what did you mean by other options? [16:13] phillw, Care to PM me how to do that? [16:13] Well, I could host it too. (rather a friend of mine that also hosts my website) [16:13] I have seen phillw hosting to be really reliable and fast :) [16:14] Omega: is that on a home server, or a commercial one? [16:14] I figured it would be easier to use phill's hosting since then we don't have to share a control panel and so on. [16:14] It is a VPS. [16:14] Oooh. [16:14] No control panel [16:15] Who needs a control panel when you have a full server? :D [16:15] Muscovy, Phillw has a control panel, but only if he trusts you with his login. [16:15] Omega: I use iWeb,they have a 99,95% uptime. and are dead cool with my having sub areas, lubuntu isos, forums for teams etc on it. [16:15] MichealH, do you think we'll end up needing ssh for anything? [16:15] Muscovy, I suppose not. [16:16] phillw, does that mean only one or two people can manage the site? [16:16] Muscovy: only those with root login access, currently running at about 6! [16:17] Hmm ok. [16:17] Muscovy, Its cool, I have root accesss so I can upload anytime [16:17] Just send me the files [16:17] :) [16:17] as does CensoredBiscuit [16:18] I guess I'll have to put up with no more live edits. :P [16:18] Muscovy, :P [16:18] Yeah yeah, bad practice, I know. [16:18] I could just let him create a user. [16:18] So we can ftp in [16:18] bioterror from the lubuntu area also has root login, along with jmarsden. [16:19] * UndiFineD has no time, but just wanted to point Omega to contact mattgriffin [16:19] Omega: you know why ? :) [16:19] I don't know who that is. [16:19] #ubuntu-adverts [16:19] remember ? [16:19] Ah. [16:19] ok [16:20] Alright, thanks for letting me know. [16:20] * UndiFineD is back to cooking [16:20] I'd kind of rather have our own section though, because then we'd be able to have a few webmasters, plus we can do weird things like apache/Python if we want. [16:20] Indeed [16:20] Shall we vote on the matter? [16:20] Muscovy: it has that already :) [16:20] And his uptime is great aswell. [16:20] Or should we hold a vote later by email? [16:20] what are the options? [16:21] web hosting by phillw, or vps by me [16:21] Omega's VPS or hosting with phillw. [16:21] we could vote now [16:21] it's up to you boys what you wish to do, the offer is there. It makes no difference to me, as it is not my project :) [16:21] Alright. [16:21] Thanks for the offer, phillw. :D [16:21] Yeah, thanks :) [16:21] #vote [16:21] Please vote on: [16:21] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [16:22] But As I am in the long run tending to the website... :P [16:22] #endvote [16:22] No vote in progress [16:22] Shall It be +1 for Phillw and -1 for Omega [16:22] ect. [16:22] MichealH, how do we steer this bot? :P [16:22] Use #vote to start and #endvote to finnish [16:23] #vote +1 for Phillw's hosting, -1 for Omegas hosting, +0 for 'Do not care/Dont Know' [16:23] #vote +1 for Phillw's hosting, -1 for Omegas hosting, +0 for 'Do not care/Dont Know' [16:23] Please vote on: +1 for Phillw's hosting, -1 for Omegas hosting, +0 for 'Do not care/Dont Know' [16:23] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [16:23] +1 [16:23] +1 received from MichealH [16:23] -1 [16:23] -1 received from Omega [16:23] -1 [16:23] -1 received from Muscovy [16:23] 0 [16:23] 0 received from phillw [16:23] +0 [16:24] Anyone else? [16:24] -1 [16:24] -1 received from UndiFineD [16:24] phillw: I'll have to ask him though, so we might contact you if something goes wrong, is that alright? [16:24] looking at future [16:24] it didnt register my vote! [16:24] should I try again [16:24] try without the + [16:24] I wouldn't worry about an unregistered +0. XD [16:24] hakimsheriff, -0 [16:24] 0 [16:24] 0 received from hakimsheriff [16:24] 0 [16:24] 0 received from MadnessRed [16:25] there it works thanks [16:25] Alright, I think that is all of us. [16:25] Omega: no worries, the offer is there, you qualify for hosting. [16:25] Thanks. :D We'll call if we have any issues. [16:26] :) [16:26] Moving on... :P [16:26] Ok, so jumping to item 1. [16:26] The names in the tour seem a little confusing. [16:26] What is "Music"? What is "Banshee"? [16:26] Muscovy: you may want to #endvote :P [16:26] #endvote [16:26] Voting ended on: +1 for Phillw's hosting, -1 for Omegas hosting, +0 for 'Do not care/Dont Know' [16:26] Votes for:1 Votes against:3 Abstentions:3 [16:26] Motion denied [16:26] thanks [16:27] Default apps use the name of what they are, whereas nondefault apps use their name. [16:27] +1 [16:28] but non default apps should be hidden by default unless they are installed [16:28] like with the browsers [16:28] If I use Chromium, for example, I'm probably going to click "browser" if I don't know what I'm doing. [16:28] yep [16:28] I agree with that, MaddnesdRed. [16:28] where you will see "Other browsers detected" [16:28] Mhm, maybe we should name them by their function but in the tour familiarize the user with the program's name? [16:28] Though at current they just hide, do they not? [16:28] the user very rarely sees some of the names though [16:29] when I first started, I didn't know that file manager was nautilus, music was rythmbox [16:29] it's best to refer to them as the user would be use to [16:29] Also, we should probably have a Category2: something field in the tour.info files, because then we can have a "show all" mode that takes uninstalled apps out of hidden. [16:29] In some cases it makes perfect sense. [16:30] "File manager" is the main name, makes loads of sense, and how many people use non-default file managers and are beginners? [16:30] the thing is though, is the tour just instructions on lots of different apps [16:31] it seems to be basically a list of applications with instructions on how to use them at the moment [16:31] whereas I think the idea initially was a list of tasks and how to do them [16:31] Aren't the two pretty similar, though? [16:32] kind of, but the tour just feels a bit intimidating now, [16:32] Hmm. [16:32] I don't want to read about openoffice, I want to know how to write a document [16:32] and don't want to know about how the desktop works, I just want to change my wallpaper [16:32] that kind of thing [16:33] Well openoffice would make more sense if it was Document Editor or something, I suppose. [16:33] And perhaps it's just me. but http://i.imgur.com/8T2o6.png is a pretty informative wallpaper changing guide. [16:33] or just use abiword? [16:34] no, I mean it should just say something like "How do I write a word document" [16:34] OpenOffice, or rather LibreOffice is default though. [16:34] ...oh. [16:34] if you are in terminal in the ubuntu-tour directory: [16:34] cat mock-ups/gui\ mockup [16:34] Well, I think an application-based list should definitely exist, [16:35] I'll /part and leave you guys discussing,as I'm lubuntu, we have a different set of apps :D [16:35] Though it would be very neat if we had a "question" search thing for specific tasks/ [16:35] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tour/ubuntu-tour/maverick/view/head:/mock-ups/gui%20mockup [16:35] Title: ~ubuntu-tour/ubuntu-tour/maverick : contents of mock-ups/gui mockup at revision 458 (at bazaar.launchpad.net) [16:35] Like "how can I check mail". [16:35] yh [16:35] look at the link above, that's sort of what i thought we were aiming at [16:36] Other than naming and sorting, the menu seems alike. [16:36] I like the naming, not sure on the sorting. [16:37] Actually, that Wine into is pretty good too. [16:37] Who did this? [16:37] me, [16:37] I agree with MadnessRed. [16:37] Good job. [16:37] it's been there for a while [16:37] Yes, I like his text mockups :) [16:38] but I think the tours should be more answering a common question [16:38] Nice [16:38] rather than just giving instruction on a particular answer [16:38] particular application# [16:38] In case I'm thinking about it wrong, [16:38] It could do.both? [16:38] under your idea, how would I learn about using the internet? [16:39] well "how do I browse the internet" would be a question [16:39] then it would probably be very similar to the current firefox tour [16:40] What if I used Opera or Chrome or something? [16:40] WOuld it redirect? [16:40] then the tour has detected that and offers a different variation of the tour [16:40] as it does at the moment [16:40] Ah. [16:40] I'd make it detect what you have installed and what your default is though, instead of just the static list. [16:41] I wanted to make it do that, but I had no idea how to integrate java/os. :P [16:41] ok, could do that [16:41] That works! :) [16:41] Making an appview mode wouldn't be hard, for more experienced users. [16:42] MadnessRed, is there anything that should change about the writing style? [16:42] I don't think so [16:43] Perhaps over the next few days we'll have an list or etherpad going to work it out? [16:43] The Question-Answer style would make it more approachable [16:43] Becuase, users in the end care about how to do something, not about the tools they are using [16:43] ^that [16:43] I agree. [16:44] Anyone have any issues with shifting to QA-style presentation? [16:44] apparently not [16:45] Thanks for bringing that up. [16:45] Next, Unity. [16:45] Now, Unity is really unstable/changing at the moment. [16:46] However, we could start editing the into to use Unity instead of Gnome. [16:46] I think we should wait before unity [16:46] I think we should get to work on it the month before, since then we'll have far fewer corrections to make. [16:46] we also need to update, possibly, for firefox 4 [16:46] It's only one chapter, and there are a lot of us. [16:46] Yes. [16:47] Though that'll mainly be images. [16:47] hopefully [16:47] A link is still a link and so on. [16:47] Hopefully. XD [16:47] I'll bring in new apps since we're on Unity. [16:48] Banshee and Libreoffice are new. [16:48] No real rush, but those need to be done. [16:48] I think we should keep the old app tours, since a good number of people will still use them. [16:48] again, should we have rythmbox hidden by default like chrome [16:48] Yep. [16:49] LibreOffice won't need much change from OO.O [16:49] We should remove OO and redirect it to LO, thouhg, since they're really similar. [16:49] Another easy tour. [16:49] Btw.. [16:49] Yes? [16:49] Jm on my phone [16:50] Ah. [16:50] Does anyone have anything else on Unity and new applications? [16:50] there is a problem so I ccant participate much sorry [16:51] I hope everything's all right? [16:51] Our arrows, where will they point? [16:51] I think LibreOffice is one of the ones which needs to be written as a QA one, since we need to have sepparate tours on how to write documents, manage powerpoints etc [16:51] no, just problem with my phone and i am busy doing something else at the same time [16:51] The OO tour needs reramping. [16:51] MadnessRed, I agree [16:52] It was written as a "this is what it does, go Google some docs". [16:52] i think there is an arrow in one of the tours, can't remember which though [16:52] It might be a good idea to include links for further reading at the end of each tour. [16:52] Applications and Places menu pages both use them, I think. [16:53] yh, File Manager, just found it [16:53] is the arrow simple enough to implement? [16:53] Very, though only for the desktop, as far as I know. [16:53] No idea how to point to things in apps. [16:53] Places menu [16:54] it is actually probably a bit to complicated [16:54] Other than the -45, 100, 1, I see what everything is. [16:55] (137,10,None,\'#FF0000\',-45, 100, 1) = (xpos, ypos, no idea, colour, angle at which it points, size, again no idea) [16:55] The complexity shouldn't be a top priority, those don't need to be done much. [16:55] Scale is the 1 maybe? [16:55] I agree with Omega, copy-pasta and editing for fine. [16:56] (x, y, parent=None, colour='#FF0000', angle=45, size=200, lifetime=5) [16:56] So, the homepage. [16:56] lifetime is how long is stays around for in seconds [16:56] yep [16:56] I made a simple function pair to load specific apps, and try to load the defaults. [16:56]

[16:57] It's more than a little ugly. [16:57] ...wait, someone removed the GetDefaultApp() [16:57] MadnessRed? [16:58] it's in a comment at the bottom, the tour wasn't working [16:58] Oh. [16:58] What was going on, errors with the gconf value? [16:59] not sure, was just trying to get it working in time for the start of the meeting [16:59] the comment at the bottom is how it was before so we can revert to that [16:59] I'll take a look at the function later. [16:59] Anyways, the homepage in general. [17:00] I though perhaps a general list of things to do, like browse the web, listen to music, etc, and some sort of search bar. [17:00] a search bar would be good === omega__ is now known as |Omega [17:01] <|Omega> Don't mine me, my bnc was acting up. [17:01] Anyone have anything to say on the homepage? [17:02] Ok, next, translations. [17:02] |Omega is me :) [17:02] I've heard a number of complaints about en/en_GB splits. [17:02] However, I believe MadnessRed has made that unnecessary. [17:02] Wait [17:03] Can we get back to the tours? [17:03] Yes. [17:03] The homepage makes the other pages seem out of place [17:03] Shouldn't we make the other pages homepage-esque? [17:03] How so? Theme-wise? [17:03] I think each catagory should have a [17:03] Interface-wise [17:04] sort of homepage [17:04] You click on a Category you get the questions in the same way the homepage is [17:04] Hmm. [17:04] That sounds good, since we could remove the sidebar. [17:04] Mhm [17:05] the sidebar allows for users to install their own tours / sets of tours though [17:05] It's not like clicking the home button or going FIle->Home is too slow, considering people won't jump around a lot. [17:05] We could integrate new things into the homepages though. [17:06] Make each page build itself from applicable tours. [17:06] We'd just need to specify an icon in each tour.info or something. [17:06] <|Omega> We could let the homepage have pages, with the second page is where the third party tours go [17:06] or just have a file icon.png in the same directory [17:06] I like that, Omega. [17:07] Or that, yeah. [17:07] I am new to the team, where can I download Ubuntu Tour? [17:07] Bzr or installable? [17:07] Any [17:07] doesn't make a difference [17:07] <|Omega> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-tour [17:08] ^that [17:08] ? [17:08] Install bzr, then run that in a terminal. [17:08] <|Omega> http://ubuntutour.org/contribute/branch/ [17:08] okay [17:08] thanks [17:08] Title: Project Branch | Ubuntu Tour (at ubuntutour.org) [17:08] <|Omega> there;s a guide there [17:08] To make the tour run, go to that directory and run ./ubuntu-tour.py [17:08] the website doesnt seem to work [17:09] :| [17:09] Oh my goodness it was up just 30 seconds ago. :P [17:09] ^Why we need OmegaHost. [17:10] MadnessRed, anything about translations that needs explaining? [17:10] <|Omega> Haha. [17:10] urm, don't bother with writing in other dialects any more [17:10] just write in the en folder the de folder, the nl folder etc [17:11] dialects will be done automatically [17:11] Ok. :D [17:11] please try and spell colour with a u though, just because html spells it without, so colour -> color is easy, but color->colour could potentially cause problems [17:12] <|Omega> Alright. [17:12] Ok. [17:12] <|Omega> What do you guys think about the homepage pages [17:12] oh and centre too, sorry [17:12] I really like your idea of the main page and subpages. [17:13] It would look really nice, take up less space, and be very noticeable. [17:13] People might not scroll down the sidebar, for example. [17:14] <|Omega> Indeed, we might need breadcrumbs at the top though, so you can go up a level easily [17:14] Yeah. [17:14] I have extracted the breadcrumbs from the software centre [17:14] as that was written in pygtk [17:14] <|Omega> Great :) [17:14] :D [17:14] im guessing it would be fine to use them? [17:14] <|Omega> With the pages I was thinking we could have those little dots art the bottom [17:14] <|Omega> like in USC [17:15] <|Omega> MadnessRed: Yep :) [17:15] <|Omega> This is the beauty of free software [17:15] Indeed. [17:15] kk [17:16] the dot's shouldn't be too hard to do [17:16] <|Omega> Although, we might have to implement it in HTML/JS [17:16] <|Omega> So if we do the online version, it'd be easier [17:16] Makes sense. [17:17] Presumably we could generate the subpages upon loading them. [17:17] should be able to [17:17] Loop through the category, and link an image of ./tour/dir/icon.png to the tour. [17:18] it think the time object may know how many tours there are anyway [17:18] tour object# [17:19] yh, [17:19] T.t_pages [17:19] Ok, so the "main thing" as I see it is making the script to build subpags. [17:19] subpages* [17:20] The rest like linking from the front page and removing the sidebar when we're ready should be simple. [17:21] Let's finish this meeting up. [17:21] Ok, the todo list needs an update. [17:21] yh [17:21] I think it should be a lot less specific, just list tours and general progress (done, not started, needs work, etc). [17:21] especially after today [17:21] I can do that later. [17:22] ok [17:22] <|Omega> Some visual feedback on which tour you are selecting would also be good [17:22] <|Omega> Like it lights up [17:22] Feedback system: I was the toying with the idea of having a simple web form under the File menu or something. [17:23] Basically was it easy, was it missing things you wanted, how's the UI, etc. [17:23] Is it a good idea? [17:23] making it should be dead easy. [17:23] yh i think so [17:23] <|Omega> Good idea :) [17:23]