=== Seeker`_ is now known as Seeker`
=== Moot2 is now known as MootBot
bigcalmAlanBell: http://cuth.eu/resize00:18
ikoniamy quest for a solid intel based motherboard and quadcore cpu continues00:22
HazRPGmy quest for a c64 disk drive does :P00:25
ikoniaHazRPG: do you really want one ?00:26
ikoniaI have about 400:26
ikoniamaybe more00:26
* hamitron has decided to stick with dual core with his new comp00:27
HazRPGikonia: really? The actual disk drives?00:28
HazRPGikonia: I just recently won a bid for a c64 off ebay :)00:29
ikoniaHazRPG: the 1541 drives00:29
HazRPGbut I would like to be able to move stuff between PC and c6400:29
ikonia3 different generations00:29
HazRPGyeah that's the one00:29
hamitroncan't the c64 support a network?00:29
ikoniahamitron: ther is a retro fit00:30
ikoniaHazRPG: I must have about 500 disk for them00:30
HazRPGikonia: amazing! :o00:30
HazRPGare you a collector?00:31
ikonianot intentionally00:31
hamitrondamn timeouts :/00:33
HazRPGikonia: just out of interest, how'd you get so many?00:33
ikoniaHazRPG: long time user, thats the only reason00:35
HazRPGikonia: awesome00:35
HazRPGikonia: I've never used one until recently (emulators, trackers, etc)00:35
HazRPGI owned a MZ-72100:36
HazRPGand then later an atari 260000:36
ikoniaah, happy memories00:37
HazRPGI'm sure I'd be a different person today, had I gotten into the c64 scene00:40
HazRPGI don't get why the floppy drives are more expensive then the machines themselves, it seems so silly00:49
* hamitron is guessing they break more00:54
hamitronor maybe because of people wanting them to transfer to other machines00:54
hamitronthen just use with an emulator00:54
shaunogood chance it's just economy of scale.  most people used tapes, so there's less floppy drives just knocking around people's attics01:07
=== Azelphur is now known as zz_Azelphur
=== zz_Azelphur is now known as Azelphur
HazRPGshauno: this is true01:16
HazRPGI'm guessing people with the floppy drives will have originally been programmers, or at least people trying to learn to programme01:16
HazRPGoh, and don't forget those that just copied games and gave them to friends/family etc01:21
HazRPGhowever I wouldn't be surprised if tapes were still more popular for that sort of thing01:21
HazRPGshauno: don't know if you read (since it was earlier in the day), but I've scored me 2 c64's from ebay :D01:23
HazRPGfor £4001:23
HazRPGalong with tape drive01:23
HazRPGcontroller and 6 games01:23
HazRPGyup :)01:25
HazRPGapparently they both worked before they got stored in the attic (and moved house with him a few times in 14 years)01:25
HazRPGand he said the lights come on, but doesn't have the RF cable anymore to be able to test that it actually works on the TV01:26
HazRPGand the tape drive seems to still move - so seems like a pure bargain :)01:26
HazRPGtwo different versions, one seems like the original batch, and the other seems to look like the c64c01:27
HazRPGhowever there was a stage when the c64 and c64c looked similar between transition, so could be luck of the draw which it actually is01:27
hamitrongl :)01:31
HazRPGhamitron: thanks :)01:51
HazRPGI would prefer if they were both the original c64's since the SID in those were far superior to the others01:51
hamitronit is kind of weird01:52
hamitronI have spent years holding onto old tech01:52
HazRPGits the SID 658101:52
HazRPGthe c64c and the c128 used the same SID chip of 858001:52
hamitronthen as soon as I consider getting rid of it, you guys start talking retro ;/01:53
hamitronand now I am getting dragged back into thoughts of using old gear01:53
HazRPGthe reason the original SID was better, was because they rushed to try and get it out as quick as possible (think they had 5 months for a computer show)... and well it had a few things that were sort of disabled or not wired up that you could essentially harness in code01:54
HazRPGwell, wasn't really rushed, the basically had a spec. sheet, and just went on developing them one by one, and added new ones if they and when they could01:55
HazRPGone such thing that the guy who came up with the SID audio chip, wanted it to have audio input - however it was never finished the the audio in pin is not wired to anything01:56
HazRPGhamitron: haha, always happens with me too :P01:56
hamitronyou guys talking means I will be still using a K6-2 at my main desk :/01:57
HazRPGI mean the c64 and the zx were always classics in my mind, but I never owned or experienced them... I'd heard and seen them, but never used one01:57
hamitronI have a couple of ZX01:57
hamitrongot my ZX128 +2 plugged in01:58
HazRPGthe ZX was another rushed system :P01:58
hamitronwell, it is fun01:58
hamitronnever done much on it01:58
hamitronbut is fun01:58
HazRPGoh, don't get me wrong - the fact that they were rushed was what made them unique!01:59
hamitronbut I also enjoy using old pentium pc too01:59
HazRPGfrom nothing to full system in 5 months is pretty ... awesome!01:59
hamitronto me, the 586 was the best times02:00
hamitronbetter games arrived02:00
hamitronand things today still haven't moved on much02:00
HazRPGoh the i586?02:01
HazRPGshame systems like that seem to lose their ways in most peoples minds :(02:02
hamitronI suppose peoples internet connections, ment they never bothered with online play options02:02
hamitronso that is different02:02
HazRPGwait, you mean games haven't progressed much?02:02
HazRPGor just systems in general?02:02
hamitronboth tbh02:03
HazRPGhow so?02:03
hamitronjust look at the average game or OS02:03
hamitronall these processor cycles and mb of memory02:03
HazRPGI mean going from blue/black/green displays to full colour with interactive interface etc is just awesome02:03
hamitronyou had 24 bit colour in windows 95 ;/02:04
HazRPGwin 95 hates me :/02:04
* dutchie was too young for win 9502:05
=== Azelphur is now known as zz_Azelphur
HazRPGand the protection of a 3y.o. was just ridiculous ("Enter password:           " *press cancel* SUCCESS!)02:05
hamitronin win95?02:05
hamitronyou could block network access though02:06
HazRPGpressing cancel on the login screen, just logged you straight in :/02:06
hamitronno it didn't02:06
hamitronit did give you some access02:06
HazRPGdid on every win95 system I came across lol02:06
hamitronI remember setting up logins for win95 on my linux server02:07
HazRPGI don't think I ever knew the password to our "family" computer... still managed to get IRC and other stuff on it with ease02:07
HazRPGdutchie: really?02:07
HazRPGdutchie: Hmm, I thought I was the youngest here.02:08
hamitronHazRPG: did you only use windows 95 at homes?02:08
HazRPGhamitron: I was 8 so yeah :P02:08
hamitronthe local security was not good, so yeh02:09
dutchieHazRPG: not 19 until July02:09
dutchieand issyl0 at least is younger than me02:09
HazRPGI think we had it at school too, and hitting cancel just bypassed everything :/02:09
HazRPGif that didn't work... restart try again02:09
hamitronHazRPG: didn't give you access to other peoples files though02:09
hamitronor printers02:09
HazRPGhamitron: did when you changed a few reg files xD02:10
hamitronwell it wasn't setup right then :/02:10
HazRPGI actually made a floppy with some reg files just for getting rid of the security stuff lol02:10
HazRPGdutchie: ah, I'm 24 in june02:11
HazRPGdutchie: I never really see issyl0 online02:11
hamitronbut yeh, local security was not good02:11
dutchieshe is around occasionally :P02:11
HazRPGhamitron: did it actually have local security :P?02:11
dutchiebut anyway, one counterexample is sufficient02:12
hamitronjust what you bypassed02:12
hamitronbut security is not everything02:13
hamitronI'm looking at new ideas and ways end users interact with stuff02:13
hamitronwe gone from a start menu, to a start menu with a few "sections" and it scrolls02:14
hamitron3d games have gone to 3d games that just have better lighting and texture quality02:14
hamitronbuttons are now round, rather than square02:15
hamitrona backup of accounts software used to be a couple of floppy disks, now the same information takes 200Mb02:16
hamitronbut I suppose not many care, so things can get as big as they like, with no thought to efficiency02:17
HazRPGyeah :/02:17
hamitronsome things are not even as good02:18
hamitrongood example is Grand Prix 3 vs F1 201002:18
hamitronthere really is nothing better or new, apart from a few fancy scenes02:19
HazRPGactually we went from file explorer -> start menu -> start menu with more colours -> start menu with scrolls -> start menu with scrolls and search02:19
hamitronbut it is still a start menu!02:19
HazRPGmy point was02:19
hamitronand now I need a cpu 10x the power02:20
HazRPGthe first gui system was just a file explorer02:20
HazRPGapps were on the desktop02:20
HazRPGand in folders02:20
HazRPGbut that was all02:20
* HazRPG growls at stupid win 3.1 and its lack of ability to play any of the games I bought for it02:20
hamitronI don't see 10x more functionality02:20
HazRPGerm... we have wobble effects on linux \o/02:21
hamitronexactly my point ;/02:21
HazRPGeasier install process02:22
hamitronis it?02:22
HazRPGwell from "LOAD "*",8" to "ooo, its there... *clicks*"02:22
hamitronthere was clicks more than 10 years ago02:23
HazRPGwell yeah, that was when XP came out :P02:23
hamitroniirc, the first I remember having it was mandrake 6.102:24
HazRPGhamitron: what would you like to see differently?02:24
hamitronI personally like how things act02:24
hamitronbut I don't like how it crunches through memory doing it the same as it once did02:25
HazRPGpersonally going from textual to graphical (which the mind processes in anyway) was a big achievement02:25
HazRPGthey've just been refining it since02:25
HazRPGhamitron: your using the wrong o/s then ;)02:25
HazRPGlinux kernel is tiny, or can be02:25
hamitronI'd replace "refining" with "adding to"02:25
hamitronI don't blame the kernel02:26
HazRPGalso, your using the wrong front-end if you feel that strongly too02:26
HazRPGflux, etc come to mind02:26
hamitronI am? :|02:26
hamitronI am using LXDE02:26
HazRPGthat was going to be my next suggestion :P02:27
hamitronbut it isn't what I use02:27
HazRPG...well then what's the issue :P?02:27
hamitronit is how the direction of computing is going02:27
HazRPGah, yeah I know02:27
hamitronI couldn't run this on a system with 32mb ram ...02:27
HazRPGblame the physicist that that computers would double every two years - mr moore himself02:29
HazRPGthat said*02:29
hamitronhim and everyone who drives it that way :)02:29
hamitronI mean, I don't mind systems having more resources...02:30
hamitronbut it would be nice to see them resources put to some good use02:30
HazRPGits science, if there's a law - you must abide by it unless you can prove wrongly - general consensus02:30
HazRPGhamitron: think of it this way02:31
HazRPGthat represents a system along with its memory02:31
HazRPGthe 11 is basically how much of it is used for the operation of the rest of the sytem02:32
HazRPGnow if you double the other figures (hardware), you must double the operating system too02:33
hamitronyou don't have to ;)02:33
shaunoyou don't have to.  but generally the whole point of having more resources is to be able to do more with them02:33
HazRPGsomeone was at the door sorry02:33
HazRPGhmm, I have to disagree02:34
dutchieat 2:30 am?02:34
hamitronif I double my memory, I expect to run nearly twice as many firefox tabs... not for each tab to use more memory each02:34
HazRPGmemory was probably a bad example02:34
HazRPGtake storage for example02:34
hamitronsame with cpu cycles02:34
hamitronstorage even more so :) a 32 bit float needs to only take 32 bits02:35
hamitronI dunno how new accounts software converts say 2mb to 200mb02:36
HazRPGthe way it stores it data onto a given medium, you need to define how to access the whole device (all the write sectors in the case of a HDD), you then also need a way of being able to scan through that medium, so some form of indexing is needed02:36
hamitronthat does not double the use of that02:36
hamitronwhat is happening, the average system doubles in power, so the software coders don't worry if the end product uses double02:37
HazRPGshauno: yeah I understand that, but when you have more resources - you also need to waste/use more to be able to address them02:38
hamitronso you end up with no extra resources to run more02:38
=== zz_Azelphur is now known as Azelphur
HazRPGwhich ali1234 was about, I always like his input02:38
HazRPGaltho its I do really like shauno and hamitron's too though :)02:38
hamitronIPv6 is a good example02:38
hamitronyes it uses more space, but it increases the number of IP by many more times02:39
HazRPGhamitron: incorrect, you still have more to work with for your actual software, however you've got to remember that the software will still get bigger because it has more address it needs to be able to manage02:39
hamitronit isn't incorrect :|02:39
hamitronyou are exagerating the overhead of addressing02:40
HazRPGoh no, I wasn't saying incorrect to IP's02:40
hamitronit is the same for hardware addressing...02:40
hamitronfor every extra bit assigned to addressing, you can double the number of addressed locations02:41
HazRPGwait, wasn't that what I tried to say with my diagram?02:42
hamitronyou were saying there is nothing gained from more memory or storage02:43
HazRPGI was trying to say, if a system requires 1/3 of it (hypothetically) for addressing, if you double the number you have available, you still need to use 1/3 of it for addressing them02:43
hamitronbut the extra gained is in fact used by bloated applications imo02:43
hamitronthat is wrong02:44
hamitronbut even if it is right02:44
hamitronno need for firefox to grow and use more of 2/3 left02:44
HazRPGthe issues with software, is usually the try to add more features - thinking ah we've got plenty of rooom - that no one cares to optimize their code any more02:45
hamitronand the OS comes under that too02:45
HazRPGof course, however the O/S is slightly different if you think of it as a whole02:46
HazRPGparts of it is basically for WYSIWYG02:46
HazRPGthe other parts are for communications02:46
shaunosee, I don't agree at all02:46
HazRPGits usually the gui stuff that tends to get bloated out02:46
HazRPGshauno: do shame :)02:46
shauno10 years ago I had a really awful computer.  well behind the times.  an amd 486dx4+B, at a stonking 120MHz02:47
shaunonow, when itunes uses 5% of the cpu, people can't figure out why it's "so bloated"02:47
shaunothat 486 couldn't play an mp3.  and 120MHz is *more* than 5% of 2.2GHz02:48
shaunoit's all very well saying "I did the same thing 10 years ago in a fraction of the hardware"02:49
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest89431
shaunowe didn't do the same things 10 years ago.  at all.02:49
hamitronI agree new functions need more resources02:49
hamitronand that is why new games use more, to do more02:50
hamitronbut I could view webpages with a comp with only 16mb ram02:51
hamitronI could word process02:51
shaunoI actually had IE4 on windows 3.1 fairly recently for something.  yes it existed.  no it wasn't the same at all :)02:52
hamitronit displayed a webpage with information on02:52
HazRPGweb page != web document02:52
hamitronI do blame the content providers parts02:53
* hamitron starts clean firefox up02:53
hamitron46mb ram :/02:53
HazRPGhamitron: back when you were viewing a web document, it only had text and needed to parse that on-screen02:53
HazRPGor possibly images02:54
HazRPGhowever now02:54
hamitronit did images ;/02:54
hamitronnow you have javascript, flash and loads of crap02:54
hamitronthat really doesn't add to the quality of information available02:54
HazRPGwe have flash, javascript, audio, video, ... and many other plugins left right and centre02:54
hamitronI had audio and video on my p120 :/02:56
hamitronnot everything was integrated though as plugins02:56
HazRPGah see exactly, your browser now does more than your browser did back then02:56
hamitrona web browser was a web browser, a media player was for playing media02:56
hamitronthat is my point too, pointless :D02:57
HazRPGbring back these days: http://media.rhizome.org/blog/3669/browser-editor.png ?02:57
HazRPGI have a feeling that's at native resolution too02:58
hamitronthat is in 16 colours ;/02:58
hamitronor maybe 25602:58
shaunoand 3/4 of them are being used for icons02:59
=== Azelphur is now known as zz_Azelphur
hamitronI'm not saying we have to give up all new features02:59
hamitronjust cut back on some of the bloat and requirements03:00
hamitronthings like buttons lighting up when the cursor goes over them03:01
hamitronround memory hogging graphics for the buttons03:01
hamitronit would free memory up, to be used for things like better quality pics and stuff03:02
HazRPGhamitron: round buttons don't take any more memory than square03:05
HazRPGwell not much anyways03:05
HazRPGalso, use chrome/chromium ;)03:06
HazRPGor disable plugins :o!03:06
HazRPGwell at least the ones you don't use03:07
hamitronchrome uses too much memory03:08
hamitroneach tab uses 40mb?03:08
HazRPGhamitron: ever sat and counted what it needs to store in memory?03:09
HazRPGeach picture and text block03:10
HazRPGin rendered form03:10
shaunoeh, chrome does process separation; so each tab contains not just the content, but the footprint of the renderer itself, the javascript engine, plugin containers, etc03:11
hamitrongood for security03:11
hamitronso i do not mind it doing so03:11
hamitronthat is part of the design03:11
HazRPGshauno: plugins are self contained in their own process, however the footprint of its usage I understand03:12
hamitronbut I bet firefox 1.0 runs faster than 3.603:12
hamitronand both display text and pictures fine03:12
HazRPGhamitron: you'd be surprised03:12
shaunoit'll vary by content.  I'd expect 1.0 to be faster on straight pages, but slower on stuff that uses js to any real degree03:13
hamitronjs is the devil of modern webpages03:14
hamitronas is all scripting and flashy stuff03:14
HazRPGanything with the word java is03:14
shaunoso you'd give up gmail to go back to 90's-style yahoo?03:14
hamitrongmail does actually have a basic option...03:15
HazRPGhamitron: not as basic as you'd think though03:15
shaunoyeah.  stops j/k keys from working tho, so it's not worth it :)03:15
hamitronshauno: freedom of choice!03:15
HazRPGhamitron: well you know the linux moto ;)03:16
HazRPG"don't like it, write your own"03:16
HazRPGor rather foss I should say03:16
shauno"if you don't like it, tough **** because canonical don't want to hear it"03:16
hamitronhaha shauno03:16
HazRPGshauno: haha ;p03:16
hamitronI will be giving ubuntu one last try, cut down03:17
hamitronsee where that takes me03:17
shaunoyou're going to find the same issues pretty much everywhere03:17
shaunoI mean, the difference between win95 and winxp wasn't just programmers getting lazy03:18
HazRPG... hmm, DSL?03:18
hamitronthere is a lts release of puppy, but that has loads installed and looks like a kids machine03:18
hamitronpersonally I prefer ubuntu 8.0403:18
shaunoI think you'd do well to try linuxfromscratch some time03:19
hamitronI have03:19
=== zz_Azelphur is now known as Azelphur
hamitrontook me ages damn it03:19
shaunohave fun trying to juggle bloat vs features yourself03:19
HazRPGor at least oemtools03:19
Azelphurbeen testing things, it looks like my freezes are indeed multi X screen related. I don't get freezes if I use either card on it's own03:19
Azelphurso as I said about 3 years ago, it's official, it looks like Linux has gone into the realms where more than 2 displays is just completely unusable :(03:20
hamitronI would run my own compiled system, but that is hard work to maintain03:20
HazRPGAzelphur: have you tried multiple X using the same card for output?03:20
AzelphurHazRPG, nope03:20
Azelphurbut that'd be kinda pointless :P03:20
shaunoI used to do that :)03:20
hamitroncan you not get it working with a custom xorg.conf?03:20
Azelphurit does "work"03:21
hamitronthat bugs me too, no xorg.conf by default03:21
Azelphurit just freezes within a matter of minutes now03:21
hamitrondoes it work in windows?03:21
Azelphurand I get artifacts and stuff03:21
shaunono xorg.conf makes perfect sense to me03:21
Azelphurdoes multi X work in windows? probably not :P03:22
hamitronno xorg.conf makes sense shauno :) but the old fashioned ways of creating the config should still be included03:22
shaunolast I looked they were03:23
HazRPGman, I should learn to stop running myself down like this03:23
* HazRPG 's uptime: 1d:3hrs03:23
hamitronI gotta get up in 4 hours :/03:23
shaunoI gotta get up in 90 minutes   lol03:24
shaunoah, looks like xorg took XF86Config out back and shot it.  'bout time.03:24
hamitronshauno: I thought the X config stuff wasn't maintained now03:24
Azelphurmight try xinerama for a bit see how I get on with that03:24
Azelphurno compiz though :(03:24
HazRPGAzelphur: hmm, not a big fan of xinerama at all03:25
HazRPGnot cos of the lack of compiz... just what it does to applications in "fullscreen"03:25
AzelphurI get that anyway without xinerama :D03:25
hamitronI liked X.org 6.x best03:25
shaunoxinerama's the way to stay sane.  TwinView is broken :)03:26
HazRPGAzelphur: same03:26
Azelphurquad screen is epic bugged but nobody will fix things :(03:26
Azelphurwell, most won't rather03:26
Azelphurmost developers just say yea nobody has more than 2 displays I'm not fixing that goodbye :P03:26
HazRPGali1234 made a hack for firefox/chrome to get flash to stop being stupid and use proper linux calls for fullscreen03:26
Azelphur(gnome-do and gnome-panel devs are really bad for this)03:26
hamitronit is because they are all communist, and hate people with too much money ;)03:27
HazRPGshauno: I use twinview without problems03:27
shaunoI could never run a separate X instance on tv-out with twinview03:27
shaunodrove me nuts03:28
hamitronnvidia need to get their ass into gear03:28
AzelphurI think it's more of an X limitation too03:28
shaunoI dont' blame nv so much03:28
hamitronand X.org need to stop moving the target so fast :/03:28
AzelphurI don't know any cards that can do quad03:28
shaunofrankly, X needs to die03:28
hamitronso many revisions and broken-ness03:29
hamitronso yeh03:29
HazRPGpersonally I think the linux kernel needs to be recoded - but that's just me03:29
HazRPGnot that I hate how its done now03:29
* hamitron points HazRPG to BSD03:30
hamitronsee how much "better" it is ;)03:30
hamitronit does have its place I suppose03:30
HazRPGBSD is still monolithic though03:30
HazRPGmicrokernel is where it should be at03:30
shaunopft.  that ship's sailed.03:31
HazRPGshauno: ?03:31
shaunoeven osx just puts everything in one mach server.03:31
shaunothe only people who still think microkernel's a good idea, are hurd.  and look where that's got them.03:32
hamitronminix is getting worse too03:32
hamitrondev is moving fast I suppose03:33
hamitronguess that is why I don't like it03:33
* hamitron grunts03:34
shaunoseriously, that's fun for academics to play with / argue over.  I can't think of anyone that's actually ship it outside of a lab tho.03:38
hamitronI personally find nothing wrong with the linux kernel, so never moved03:38
hamitronit was only this last year I accepted the 2.6 kernel though :)03:39
hamitronnn you lot o/03:43
hamitronpost midnight moan starts again in just over 20 hours03:44
shaunoheh, night03:44
shaunonot sure how I ended up with my head stuck in TeX again.  this just isn't kosher.03:50
shaunonot entirely sure what this means either03:52
shauno! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000].03:52
lubotu3`Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)03:52
shaunoIf you really absolutely need more capacity, you can ask a wizard to enlarge me.03:53
* shauno scratches head03:53
=== Azelphur is now known as zz_Azelphur
=== zz_Azelphur is now known as Azelphur
=== Azelphur is now known as zz_Azelphur
=== zz_Azelphur is now known as Azelphur
shaunomorning MartijnVdS :)05:03
shaunodiscovered fairly recently that james earl jones was mufasa in The Lion King.  Making Luke, Simba's step-brother.05:05
shaunothat's one messed up family tree.05:05
MartijnVdSI was watching Men in Black II a few weeks ago, and I recognised someone.. he was the landlord in The Big Lebowski05:09
MartijnVdSthen I was watching a DS9 episode yesterday... and he was an alien05:10
MartijnVdSIt's weird, not knowing an actor and then seeing him three times in a row05:10
shaunoreminds me of when I figured out that Agent Smith was the lead dragqueen in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert05:16
shaunoThe Matrix will never be the same again :p05:18
MartijnVdSalso, Elrond05:18
shaunoelf isn't quite so far a leap tho05:20
Myrttipriscilla ruined la confidential, memento, star wars for me in addition to matrix and lotr06:24
=== uk-stat is now known as ukstat
AlanBellmorning all07:12
danfishgood morning, and what a bright sunny day in the SE for a change :)07:17
nigelbgood morning UK07:56
TheOpenSourcererMorning earthlings :-)08:14
HazRPGwow, waking up in front of the computer isn't my idea of cool08:29
HazRPGespecially to voices on mumble lol08:29
HazRPG...hi :)08:31
MooDoohello all08:53
BigRedSGoooood morning!08:55
DJonesMorning all09:00
=== soneill_ is now known as soneill
scoundrel50hi, I installed pastebinit lsat night, amazing little tool from what I would see, but I have been trying to find out if there were any directions on how to use it. i tried man pastebinit, but I couldnt see much on there. I went to the owners website, but could only swee updates and things on that. Thanks.09:17
MartijnVdSomg @ new Ubuntu name09:17
MartijnVdS"Oneiric Ocelot"09:18
DJonesscoundrel50: Have you looked at this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pastebinit That might be what you're looking for09:19
Baikonurthey've let someone loose with dictionary and some mind-altering substances again09:19
MooDoomorning czajkowski09:19
MartijnVdSBaikonur: Mark is just trying to out-smart the prediction sites09:20
Baikonurthat's probably it09:20
MartijnVdSBaikonur: (I guess)09:20
Baikonuri said oh, and then actually read what you said :)09:21
cbx33mornin all09:21
Myrttianyone in the IT news business? http://www.digia.com/C2256FEF0043E9C1/0/40500225109:22
Baikonuri'm in a business of reading IT news09:23
lostscotjoin #ubuntu-bugs09:23
DJonesscoundrel50: I've just found the online manpage for pastebinit, but doesn't seem to add anything to the original link I posted http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/en/man1/pastebinit.1.html09:24
soneillI misread that as /join #ubuntu-hugs09:24
mungojerryMyrtti: so digia will handle promotion and commercial licensing of qt, but nokia retains the devs?09:26
Myrttimungojerry: apparently yes, that's how it's been interpreted by the Finnish news09:26
mungojerryuntil somebody buys the devs..i wonder who will do that09:26
scoundrel50DJones: that was what I saw on man, but I dont understand it. How do I get from that, to this command I was given last night.........sed -n '43200,43400p' /var/lib/dpkg/status|pastebinit this command doesnt even seem to be on the man page........09:27
scoundrel50I understand that command I just posted, its the line numbers, and where is it, but what is sed -n09:28
scoundrel50and how would you go about adding a paragraph from a page you were looking at on a website09:29
cbx33Myrtti: could do with some latex love if you have a second09:29
cbx33oh man09:29
cbx33that sounds wrong09:29
Myrtticbx33: sure, I'm high on sugar anyway09:30
Myrttithat sounds equally wrong09:30
cbx33gimme a sec09:30
Myrttioh geez, I need a full nights sleep...09:30
AlanBellOneiric Ocelot!09:32
DJonesscoundrel50: I've never used sed myself, but as I understand it, it effectivly searches a file for specific text and gives you various options to replace/report on it, so that line searches ofr the lines between 4320 to 43400 in the status file & than pipes the output into pastebinit. Not knowing the usage of sed, I wouldn't like to say much more, but I'm sure somebody else will be able to help in time09:32
czajkowskiMyrtti: TEA!!09:32
Myrtticzajkowski: I'm beyond the point where the situation can be fixed with tea09:33
TheOpenSourcererCabinet Office Survey on Open Standards: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/uk-government-open-standards-survey09:33
DJonesAlanBell: Can you answer scoundrel50's query about the sed | pastebinit question he had a few minutes ago, just explaining a bit more on what you went through yesterday09:33
scoundrel50Thank you. I'll keep my eyes open. :)09:33
AlanBellscoundrel50: ok, so I googled for "display a portion of a file linux"09:34
screen-xDJones: you are right, -n means don't print by default. x,y is range of line numbers and p is print.09:34
AlanBellwhich took me here http://www.unix.com/unix-dummies-questions-answers/21631-display-portion-lines-file.html09:35
AlanBellwhere I learned that sed -n '20,40p' would display lines 20 to 4009:35
DJonesscreen-x: Thats good, a logical (debatable from my point of view) process worked out then09:36
AlanBellI wanted to display lines 43200 to 43400 which is 200 lines of the file, with the bit referenced in your warning message in the middle of it09:36
AlanBell| is a pipe, it sends the output of one command into the input of the next09:36
hoovermornin all09:37
screen-xmorning hoover :)09:37
scoundrel50AlanBell: ah, I see, I will have a look at the url myself now. That makes more sense. Thank you.09:38
AlanBellso you can do echo "hi this is my text"|pastebinit for example, the output of echo "hi this is my text" is 'hi this is my text' which will be passed into pastebinit, which puts it on a pastebin and returns the URL09:38
gorddoes anyone know a gtk app that has an expander in it? one of those little arrows that you click and get a bunch more content unveiled09:38
AlanBellgord: openERP client09:38
mungojerrygord: gconf-editor has expanders, with + signs though09:39
czajkowskihow are we all doing this morning09:39
screen-xfine thanks czajkowski, how are you?09:39
czajkowskifantastic :)09:39
gordAlanBell, something i might have installed is preferable ;)09:40
mungojerrysun is shining in the UK for the first time in 6 months i think09:40
DJonesMorning czajkowski Welcome back to the UK, did you have a good holiday09:40
screen-xthats a good state for a monday morning :)09:40
gordmungojerry, hrm not ones in a treeview like that, in regular content09:40
screen-xmungojerry: yay! (puts SAD lamp away)09:40
czajkowskiDJones: I did indeed09:41
scoundrel50AlanBell: you entered that command from the terminal to find something in a folder, but what if you were looking for something on the internet, can it be used for doing that?09:41
AlanBellscoundrel50: not sure what you mean09:43
AlanBellgord: do you want a screenshot or something?09:43
gordAlanBell, found some in ccsm :) needed to check the behaviour in gtk for keynav09:44
screen-xscoundrel50: sed can only files through a file system. But you browse the web in a terminal with links or lynx.09:44
cbx33Myrtti: pinged you09:45
czajkowskiDISLIKE KDE!09:45
scoundrel50screen-x: ah, what is that, have never done that before....09:45
scoundrel50AlanBell: I wondered about trying to add something from a web page, to pastebinit, without having to copy and paste09:47
* AlanBell struggles to see the point of that!09:48
kazadeso, Oneiric Ocelot ...09:48
AlanBellyo dawg, I heard you liked web pages so I put a web page on your web page so you can browse while you browse09:48
mungojerrykazade: i was half right :P09:49
kazadeMark's getting more and more obscure with each release!09:49
mungojerrycouldn't get ovulating ocelot out of my mind09:49
DJonesmungojerry: Too much information09:49
screen-xscoundrel50: theres no advantage to browsing in terminal, except if you find yourself without X for some reason.09:49
JamesTaitGood morning, all!09:49
screen-xmorning JT :)09:50
mungojerryit's gonna be hard for poor spellers ..reminds me of this old joke:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8KfQ6uTP009:50
scoundrel50Sorry not very good at explaining.....was trying to find out, how I would go about using pastebinit for something I had seen on the internet, instead of having to copy and paste into something like pastebin.ubuntu09:51
=== gmb` is now known as gmb
AlanBellscoundrel50: my point is that if it is on a web page you don't have to put it on a pastebin, just share the URL of the page09:52
scoundrel50oh right, I see what you mean,......duh......09:53
scoundrel50sorry about that09:53
AlanBellocelot -> http://images.sciencedaily.com/2007/11/071129094756-large.jpg09:54
MartijnVdSSouth American cat09:54
kazadeso, what do you guys think is the best release name so far?09:55
DJonesAlanBell: That looks nice and cute09:55
mungojerryi think the best creature is the narwhal09:55
knightdroidnaughty night09:55
MartijnVdSmungojerry: Redditor? :)09:55
kazadeI think Feisty Fawn or Hardy Heron - I quite liked "Hardy" because I thought it was a good name for a LTS09:55
MartijnVdSDapper Drake was nice as well09:55
AlanBellthe desktop wallpaper on Hardy was great09:55
mungojerrysome narwhal fans got carried away: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mroth/galleries/72157623599870267/09:56
kazadenot a huge fan of "Oneiric"09:56
* DJones waits for the 12:04 name now, "Perfect Penguin" although other distro's would dispute that09:57
screen-xor Petulent Panda09:58
Baikonurdon't care for intrepid, jaunty, maveric, natty09:59
screen-xThe scroll wheel on my mouse at work, can be pushed sideways for horizontal scrolling, this is reasonably useful until I use a mouse with a normal scroll wheel and almost break it off when trying to sroll horizontally.10:00
gordhttp://www.digia.com/C2256FEF0043E9C1/0/405002251 huh, digia buying Qt10:01
Baikonuri really like the wallpaper on intrepid, though10:01
Baikonurfunnily enough, that link has been here already, but i haven't seen it in any other channels10:02
mungojerryfor anyone following the google malware story, does anyone know if the malicious apps presented a list of privileges via the permissions page?10:14
ali1234dunno but i could probably find out10:14
mungojerryif not , then checking the permissions list is pointless if it's a dodgy app10:14
mungojerryrather peeved that google have only decided to act after there's been an issue, despite what users have been concerned about since day 110:15
ali1234not many users10:16
ali1234at least not in this country10:16
mungojerryhey ali1234 did i see you mention the other day that you studeied at manchester uni10:16
mungojerryme too :P10:16
mungojerrymaths & comp sci10:16
mungojerrydid they have solaris workstations, or linux by then?10:17
ali1234they had both an NT too10:17
mungojerryugh, i never touched a windows box until i was 2110:17
ali1234the B&W sun terminals were hardly used by anyone though10:17
mungojerryyeah, they had rooms full at the time. the interenet had only just started too10:18
mungojerrycool days10:18
mungojerryalthough i managed to get a 1st class degree without knowing much about solaris or IP addresses at the time10:19
mungojerrymost of my course buddies got lower class degrees but knew how to program well and a whole lot more...guess i concentrated on exams and social instead :P10:19
mungojerrygood old days :)10:20
mungojerryali1234: did you end up with an IT job?10:22
ali1234i ended up unemployed for 2 years, *then* i got an IT job10:26
ali1234that was so bad I quit and became self-employed10:26
mungojerrythere was a post y2k glut of so-called IT staff that muddied the waters at around that time. i don't know of a time when it's ever been good to get work10:26
diploAnyone recommend any good Python tutorials, started writing a backup script to use ssh/rsync and mysql dump to back up our web hosts but was using bash and I thought why not use this as a time to start teaching myself python10:29
MooDoodiplo: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide ??10:29
TheOpenSourcererdiplo: Snake Wrangling for kids10:30
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: ALOHA!!10:30
diploTa fanx, will go looksy now10:30
loftusdiplo, http://duplicity.nongnu.org/10:30
TheOpenSourcererYo czajkowski10:30
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: hows you :)10:31
TheOpenSourcererGreat thanks. A year older but still the same big kid inside :-D10:31
DJonesTheOpenSourcerer: Happy candle day today then?10:31
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer: Happy Birthday?10:31
TheOpenSourcererNah - Saturday.10:31
diployeah seen that before loftus, keep meaning to tinker but not going to help my pthon skills i suppose, might take anothe rlook anyhoo10:32
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer: well happy birthday for saturday....21 again?10:32
screen-xdiplo: also rsnapshot is worth considering..10:32
TheOpenSourcererAnyone fancy a small HP Microserver - Hp doing £100 cashback so it will cost £121 inc. VAT10:32
loftusdiplo, Written in python!10:33
AlanBellpopey: did you get one of those HP boxes?10:34
popeyno, i got 410:34
MooDoomorning popey10:34
AlanBellhow many drive bays do they have?10:34
Guest64262Anyone know where to find ufw firewall on Natty / Unity ?10:34
popeyfour connected to a back plane, and one optical bay10:35
* mungojerry wishes he had spare funds in his fun budget10:36
MooDoomungojerry: me too, i want a new camera10:36
* mungojerry wants a touch screen on his eee, and one of those cheap HP servers ^^^10:37
czajkowskiTomorrow is pancake tuesday!!!!10:37
ali1234£120 for a 1.3Ghz athlon II and 250GB HD is not exactly cheap10:37
czajkowskidon't forget the lemon!!10:37
MooDooczajkowski: woohoo maple syrup10:38
ali1234it's about what it is actually worth10:38
MooDooali1234: better than a smack in the mush :)10:38
mungojerrycurrently i have a linksys nslu2 doing my backups10:38
AlanBellI see it as a rather flexible NAS box10:38
MooDoomungojerry: i'm backing up to a windows server, then a netgear nas duo10:38
mungojerryi had to crush a resistor with a pair of tweezers on my nslu2 to get the true cpu performance :P10:41
popeyAlanBell: i have moved the 160GB disk that came with mine to the cdrom bay, and added two 2TB disks10:41
popeyif I need more space I will add two more10:41
popeyit also has an internal USB port so you could put the OS on that, and add another 2TB in the optical bay10:42
popeyso you could end up with 5x2TB in it10:42
mungojerrypopey:  would the PSU handle that?10:42
mungojerrylook slike it's only 200W10:43
AlanBellI want to introduce a customer to the joys of an on-site rdiff-backup of everything10:43
ali1234is it quiet?10:43
DavieyAlanBell, What benefits do you see of rdiff-backup over rsnapshot?  Or is it just familiarity?10:44
mungojerry..or rsync with hard links10:46
Davieywell that sounds like reinventing rsnapshot if you want to keep historic backups.10:47
mungojerryDaviey: yeah, thats what we did :P10:48
Davieymungojerry, why?!10:48
mungojerryDaviey: it was pre-existing backup solution already in place that worked10:49
Davieymungojerry, ah10:49
mungojerryalthough i needed to upgrade rsync to a newer version10:49
mungojerrybecause traversing enormous directories was RAM intensive ( over 2gb) and killed the machine. most recent rsync version fixes this10:50
ali1234how recent is most recent?10:50
mungojerrywhen you know things like that you decide not to change your online backups cos your ones already work10:50
ali1234because i need to rsync some enormous directories...10:51
* mungojerry checks...10:51
ali1234i have rsync  version 2.6.9  protocol version 2910:51
mungojerry3.0.7 i think...just checking10:52
popeyali1234: i dont know, its in a cupboard10:52
ali1234popey: you turned it on with a really long stick too?10:52
ali1234popey ------------------------------------------------------------> power button10:53
popeyno, it's reachable :)10:53
popeyi use rsnapshot on it to backup lots of remote boxen10:53
popeyworks really nicely10:53
ali1234you must have some idea how noisy it is10:53
popeyno, no clue10:53
mungojerryRsync versions before 3.0.0 always build the entire list of files to be transferred at the beginning and hold it in memory for the entire run.10:54
popeywell, relatively speaking, not as noisy as a drobo10:54
mungojerryali1234: http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/FAQ.html#410:54
popeywhich used to be where it's sat now10:54
ali1234yeah, i have noticed rsync doing this, it takes almost as long to build the file list as to transfer the files10:54
Davieyrsync has always been abusive to the server, and i understood this was still the case.10:54
mungojerryours was killing the server, but now is fixed10:54
mungojerryafter upgrade on both sides10:55
* BigRedS pats ionice10:55
mungojerryit was the RAM bug ^^10:55
mungojerryour zimbra server has millions of files10:55
ali1234for some reason ionice has no effect on my machine10:55
* mungojerry wonders about the best filesystem for millions of small files10:55
BigRedSAh, oh. I didn't see what was being discussed, but ionice does wonders for rsyncy things generally10:56
BigRedSmungojerry: zfs or xfs IIRC10:56
ali1234i think there's something wrong with my IDE drivers perhaps. is 1.3 seconds latency on page fault reasonable?10:56
BigRedSin that one of those is particularly good for them, but I can't remember which10:56
mungojerryBigRedS: i was thinking xfs too, i need to check it out10:56
BigRedSxfs is a big bag of awesome generally10:56
TheOpenSourcererxfs is good for very large files.10:57
mungojerryext is taking days to delete files10:57
TheOpenSourcererI use it on our home server.10:57
DavieyTheOpenSourcerer, When xfs corrupts, it's a world of pain.10:57
TheOpenSourcererIt's been good so far.10:57
BigRedSBut it *is* very easy to back up..10:58
jpdsphotorec time.10:58
ali1234corrupted btrfs is worse10:58
DavieyTheOpenSourcerer, have you tried shrinking an xfs partition :)10:58
popeyAlanBell: YHM re: Release Party10:59
Davieyjpds, Yes... i have a 1TB harddrive on the shelf that is par tof a RAID1 corrupted xfs array, and another drive which is halfway through photorec'ing :)10:59
Davieyjpds, not touched it in a few months tho... :/10:59
ali1234someone at meego decided btrfs would be a good idea for mobile battery powered devices10:59
ali1234unfortunately it tends to corrupt if the battery runs out, and there's no fsck that can fix errors11:00
Myrttidear universe, please stop kicking me in the head, plzkthxbai br Miia11:01
mungojerryengadget picked up the qt story http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/07/nokia-sells-qt-licensing-and-services-business-to-digia/11:05
ubuntuuk-planet[Dave Morris] CLI onliners: Changing my email address in multiple files - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/cli-onliners-changing-my-email-address-in-multiple-files/11:07
X3NAnyone know how to change the default web browser of thunderbird?11:13
X3NI've tried prefered applications and setting x-www-browser11:14
BigRedSI know there's three places, but I can't remember the third#11:15
BigRedSah, is it sensible-browser ?11:15
BigRedSdo    file `which sensible-browser`    and see where that points11:16
X3Nah that looks like, thanks11:16
BigRedShm, mine's a shell script. But, still, poke around that and it might be why it's picking whatever it is11:17
X3Nlook like it's picking gnome-www-browser, even though my "prefered application" for browser is set to firefox11:19
* X3N fixes 11:21
BigRedSyeah, I hate changing default apps now, there's so many places and ways you need to do it...11:24
davmor2morning all11:30
* davmor2 fires bits of paper from his elastic band catapult in czajkowski general direction11:31
* czajkowski kicks davmor2 11:31
* davmor2 hugs czajkowski welcome back11:31
czajkowskidavmor2: did you miss me11:32
davmor2czajkowski: You know the technical level of this channel rises when you not here :P11:32
czajkowskidavmor2: oh bite me!11:32
popey\o/ the czajkowski and davmor2 show11:33
czajkowskidavmor2: you know you missed me, you have nobody else that rants back at you11:33
* gord gets popcorn11:33
* mungojerry has written a strong email to the big bosses of his company :S11:33
* popey puts toffee on gords popcorn11:33
* screen-x observes that when thirsty, drinking is more effective than eating.11:33
* czajkowski steals the popcorn and throws it over davmor2 11:33
mungojerrywonder whether it's good to stick your head above the parapet :S11:33
popeyI had black pudding sandwich for brekkie this morning :D11:33
popeyand it's pie week, so I want PIE!11:33
screen-xpie week?11:34
gordits pie week?11:34
popeyit is11:34
davmor2czajkowski: Hey no wasting food even if it does get a Laugh11:34
soneillI thought pie was an all year round thing11:34
davmor2popey: don't tell the yanks they'll go potty11:34
mungojerrydoes that also mean more rumpie pumpie...?11:34
screen-xhaha PoTD is funny11:34
shaunoironically, 3/14 is /next/ week11:35
popeyIt means 3.14 more rumpie pumpie!11:35
Pendulumshauno: I was just thinking that11:35
davmor2czajkowski: How was your holiday?11:35
* popey has some http://www.amazon.co.uk/Make-Us-Brew-Organic-Chilli/dp/B003VJTL0W11:36
* popey will be making czajkowski drink some next week11:36
mungojerryno pie week celbration at the work canteen :(11:37
davmor2czajkowski: you see we'd of been all nice to you if you'd of said awful now you deserve everything you get for having such a nice time :P11:39
screen-xmungojerry: ask them nicely, but if they don't respond positively, use sudo11:40
screen-xI thought ntpd was supposed to bring clocks into sync gently.. http://i.imgur.com/i17fN.png11:42
mungojerryweird, are u sure it wasn't an ntpdate command instead?11:45
screen-xmungojerry: I did restart ntpd, but didnt ntpdate11:45
mungojerrythinking of going to this conference in april, maybe others might be interested  http://www.infosec.co.uk/11:45
czajkowskipopey: eh no drink till after, otherwise I'll speak even faster!11:47
davmor2czajkowski: you're kidding right,  I have to record what you say now and play it back at half speed to know what you said11:51
czajkowskiI cant even argue with you11:52
gordsigh, the problem with triaging unity bugs is that often its just compiz bugs, but people file them against unity :(11:52
davmor2czajkowski: that must gut you then ;)11:52
davmor2gord: but you love it you know you do ;)11:54
gordreally... really don't11:54
davmor2gord: can't you write a script that transfers them all over to compiz and have the compiz team forward the ones that actually effect unity :D11:55
gordif compiz used launchpad i wouldn't care, they use a bugzilla11:55
mungojerrygord: there is also a common conception that nobody/very few people are working on compiz11:56
mungojerrylots of old compiz bugs went unfixed for a long time11:56
davmor2gord: Meh11:56
X3Nthat and the compiz code base was never that good in the first place11:56
gordits been re-written11:57
gordnatty compiz is basically entirely new, which means it has a crap load of new bugs11:57
gordplease file/fix :(11:57
mungojerrythere is a compiz bug that bites me almost every other day and crashes compiz, which sucks badly when u have > 50 windows open over virtual desktops...restarting compiz brings them onto 1 desktop again11:57
AlanBellgord: so how does one tell if a bug is compiz, or unity?11:57
gordAlanBell, test in classic desktop11:58
AlanBellgood answer11:58
shaunotoday's so slow I'm trawling SE/askubuntu  :/12:06
screen-x< shauno> today's so slow I'm trolling SE/askubuntu  :/12:06
screen-xfixed that for you ;-)12:07
mungojerryaskbuuntu can be quite addictive12:07
czajkowskiAnyone heading to the RMS talk this evening in London http://j.mp/dYlNNl12:08
AlanBellczajkowski: me12:12
czajkowskime too!12:13
* AlanBell wonders if there will be food12:15
Synth_samThey're trying to organise for him to speak in Sheffield, I might go then, it's closer12:16
czajkowski20:00 - 21:30 Networking   perhaps then12:16
AlanBellyup, hour and a half of networking does deserve food I think12:17
AlanBellif not then I am going for a curry :)12:17
DJonesAlanBell: Will there be dancing?12:17
mungojerryAlanBell: toenail sandwiches12:17
AlanBellI am not sure whether I dislike mungojerry's or DJones's suggestion the most12:18
Myrttipuff pastries and deepfried shrimps12:18
mungojerryAlanBell: depends if you have seen the RMS toe jam video12:18
* MooDoo isn't going, he's working on getting a linux event to dublin :)12:18
ndfi keep deleting items from the places sidebar in nautilus accidentally by pressing backspace to navigate 'up', if the sidebar is in focus backspace acts as delete, but if the folder contents have focus then it navigates up. is there a way to stop the delete function? surely it should only be mapped to delete as opposed to backspace anyway?12:18
AlanBellmungojerry: yes, I have. Eye bleach does not take it away.12:19
gordAlanBell, i hope you have designed RMS bingo ;)12:19
AlanBellgord: oooh, I could do that12:19
AlanBellhttp://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/ still works12:19
mungojerryyou might also want to take a posy of flowers to ward off B.O. from the multitude of unwashed geeks12:19
AlanBellmungojerry: how dare you say that about czajkowski12:20
czajkowskiMooDoo: Dublin..12:20
czajkowskimuch nicer places to go to than Dublin12:20
MooDooczajkowski: it's a FUDCon bid12:21
czajkowskialso Dublin being one of the most expensives placews in ireland12:21
mungojerryi would probably go to the RMS event if it wasn't west end12:21
MooDoooh sorry Fedora Users And Developers conference.12:21
czajkowskimakes it very expensive to run events there12:21
MooDoono need to discuss here :)12:21
czajkowskiif I can help with any venues let me know12:21
MooDooczajkowski: i did have you in mind :)  thank you12:22
czajkowskiyes but your mind is like davmor212:22
mungojerryi listened to the uupc but no oggcamp venue mentioned..12:22
czajkowskiin the gutter!12:22
MooDooczajkowski: yes agreed, but i can be professional when i have to be12:22
SuperMatthttp://supermatt.net/OneiricOcelot/ When I think of Oneiric Ocelot, I think of this. Sandman book 8 - Brief Lives, chapter 6. Pages 10 to 1512:22
MooDooczajkowski: not that often though :)12:23
gordwhat is RMS doing anyway? talking about anything interesting?12:24
AlanBellgord: I would hazard a guess that he will be talking about Free Software12:24
mungojerryi'd guess at: rights, data, facebook, FSF, wikileaks12:24
gordAlanBell, bleeeeeeeeehhhhh12:24
AlanBelland people in the audience will ask him about Open Source which will annoy him greatly12:24
* davmor2 prods czajkowski Oi I look down on the gutter these days, admitted from the hight of a couple of mm's but still12:25
MooDoodavmor2: you hold i'll poke with a stick12:25
gordgrr, why won't my usb stick boot12:25
AlanBellI look up to davmor2 because I am in the gutter, but I look down on MooDoo because he uses Fedora12:25
Synth_samgord: it's not bootable12:25
czajkowskigord: cause you're running natty :p12:25
gordit is bootable!12:26
davmor2MooDoo: knows his place12:26
MooDooAlanBell: only at work :p12:26
czajkowskidavmor2: yes with you on the naughty step or in the gutter!12:26
MooDooczajkowski: well i'm not going on the naughty step so there, *stamps foot*12:26
mungojerryMooDoo: how often do you need to upgrade with fedora in an office environment12:26
brobostigonafternoonings everyone.12:26
gordoh geez my bios is insane that is why12:27
czajkowskigord: yeah thats the reason12:27
MooDoomungojerry: i'm still using F13, didn't upgrade to 1412:27
gordwoo alpha 3 is booting, its all very exciting12:27
davmor2gord: I was going to say is the bios pointed at removable hd's first12:28
Synth_samgord: is it one of those irritating bioses that adds USB flash drives to the HDD list, and you have to manually add it to the front of the priority to boot?12:28
gordSynth_sam, yes12:28
MooDoomungojerry: i upgrade when ever i want to really...12:28
mungojerryMooDoo: you don't have an office full of fedora wearers then12:29
davmor2gord: it clears out a lot of the old issues I was have except for wifi,  atheros chips are a bit borked in natty12:29
davmor2mungojerry: at work he is the fedora wearer12:29
mungojerrywe have 150 or so RHEL/Centos/SL users, which is OK until near the end of cycle and things get a bit old12:29
czajkowskigord: http://twitter.com/#!/andypiper/status/4473227168042598412:29
mungojerrywould prefer debian/ubuntu tbh12:29
MooDoomungojerry: no there is about 7 of us......i could put ubuntu on it, but i CBA :)12:29
mungojerrytexlive isn't even available on RHEL12:30
MooDooI do however, use Ubuntu at home on my other machines.12:30
mungojerryit's hardly a desktop OS anymore12:30
gorddavmor2, cool, i'm actually just changing from 32 bit back to 64bit, i installed 32bit accidently a while back12:30
davmor2gord: It does however come with a whole heap of new unity/compiz issue expect lots of unity bugs ;)12:31
gordah, the installer changed12:31
gordi wish they wouldn't change it, it always scares me that i'm gonna format wrong12:31
ali1234why did they make the boot menu... no longer a boot menu?12:32
Synth_samgord: I prefer the alternate, at least you can see what you're doing then12:32
davmor2gord: it's far easier now!12:32
Synth_samdavmor2: does it still assume that you want grub on /dev/sda?12:33
davmor2Synth_sam: you can always use expert mode on ubiquity to modify everything you need12:33
MooDoomungojerry: what's hardly a desktop os?12:33
gorderrr i have no key input in the installer... not good12:33
MooDoomungojerry: yeah, i just use it on servers.....12:33
Synth_samdavmor2: that's what I did, but I used the alternate iso, it's available on the standard one too?12:33
MooDoomungojerry: i have 3 servers at home, centos windows and debian.....i think they will do me for now12:34
davmor2Synth_sam: yeap second page in iirc there is an expert mode for HD setup,  you'd have to have a look and see if it covered everything you need but I think it does12:35
davmor2Synth_sam: Ubiquity is afterall only a gui frontend to debian-installer12:35
gordi have never actually used/seen a windows server but the concept confuses me12:36
MooDoogord: confuses?12:36
gorddo you keep a monitor attached or something?12:36
MooDoogord: nope, just having running on a vmware platform that i can rdesktop to12:36
Synth_samdavmor2: the maverick one allowed you to select the partitions manually, but then ran "grub-install /dev/sda" at the end of the installation, even though all of your installation was on sdc12:38
* Synth_sam says bye to the windows MBR on sda12:38
* AlanBell pokes czajkowski and the MooDoo with http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p12:39
davmor2Synth_sam: yeah last screen where you could edit the details is were you can move grub to another drive I'll have to check that that is still available to be honest though12:39
AlanBelland everyone else12:39
czajkowskiAlanBell: I've no idea...12:40
czajkowskitrying to find a weekend to go to ireland12:40
AlanBellyou can play from there12:40
BigRedSthat's an awfully long way away to be planning already...12:40
davmor2czajkowski: Are you not irish enough do you have to go back for a topup from time to time?12:40
MooDooAlanBell: done :)12:41
czajkowskidavmor2: not seen my dad since dec 31st :( still a daddys girl!12:41
* MooDoo hands czajkowski a blankie :)12:41
davmor2czajkowski: Why does that not surprise me :D12:41
shaunowe need to setup some kind of exchange program.  I keep looking for a good excuse to leave for a weekend :)12:43
MooDooshauno: where do you live now?12:44
MooDooshauno: you need to come over and do the Nottingham experience ;)12:44
czajkowskishauno: keep an ear out for oggcamp12:45
czajkowskidavmor2: oi12:46
davmor2czajkowski: oi to what, you being a Daddy's Girl or Irish?12:47
MooDoodavmor2: czajkowski acts all rufty tufty but we know she's a puddy tat :)12:47
* MooDoo runs and hides12:47
* czajkowski peers at MooDoo 12:48
davmor2MooDoo: I point to a flaw in you plan here,  Tigers are puddy tats too ;)12:48
czajkowskino cats12:48
MooDoodavmor2: ah yes, ok substitute puddy tat with something else that is soft and fluffy and all ....ok i'll stop now12:48
shaunowas half tempted to try get across for the rugby mess, but too close to paddy's .. the natives all booked their time off last april :(12:49
AlanBellMooDoo: an Ocelot12:58
MooDooAlanBell: Oneiric?12:59
davmor2AlanBell: haha, topical I like it12:59
MooDoohang on we're not calling czajkowski Oneiric are we ;)12:59
AlanBellhow does one pronounce oneiric?12:59
MooDooone iric i would say12:59
czajkowskiMooDoo: december 19th is not far away!12:59
AlanBellon air ick/13:00
brobostigon http://paste.ubuntu.com/576959/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/73009913:00
lubotu3`Ubuntu bug 730099 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup 0c40b170 (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New]13:00
brobostigonany ideas. ?13:00
AlanBellczajkowski: it is13:00
MooDooczajkowski: december the 19th?13:00
* MooDoo has gone nuts....13:01
* czajkowski needs food 13:01
* brobostigon scp's czajkowski chocolate buttons.13:02
MooDooczajkowski: nope, a week on sat :)13:02
MooDooknightdroid: good afternoon13:09
* mungojerry is disappointed at the pie selection for pie week at the canteen13:18
mungojerryMr Narayen [Adobe CEO] said that if Flash crashed Apple products it was something "to do with the Apple operating system." hmmmm13:26
screen-xand linux, and windows..13:26
shaunoadobe users are happy.  they love adobe.  those are fireworks you're hearing, not explosions13:26
mungojerryat the trade show i went to the other day, i decided to aim for most freebies from companies i hated :P13:32
mungojerrynamely adobe and oracle... i couldn't bear to get a microsoft pen13:32
gordnot that i hate suse, but i have a suse reptile thingy plush toy :)13:35
popeyme too13:35
popeywell, my son does13:35
gordits cute!13:35
gordaaand fourth attempt to install ubuntu... first time i couldn't use the keyboard. second time the installer broke half way through screwing up my install, third time couldn't use the keyboard again...13:36
* brobostigon shouts at the natty intel drivers and compiz for gpu lockup.13:37
shaunomy money's on the keyboard winning this round ;)13:37
mungojerryi also have some red pills from adobe...i wonder what they do?13:37
* davmor2 randomly prods czajkowski to make up for last week13:39
davmor2MooDoo: No not one iric theres definitely more that one iric,  I mean there iric idle, there iric the python ide etc etc etc etc13:41
MooDoodavmor2: you silly iric?13:41
* MooDoo prods czajkowski on the same spot :)13:42
davmor2mungojerry: thanks for clarifying that for us13:42
mungojerryanytime :)13:42
* brobostigon has significant annoyance,13:43
davmor2MooDoo: could be worse it could be On Eiric I suppose13:43
brobostigononly solution, is to stay remotly ssh'd in, and get as much data when it happens as possible, and add it to the bug report. and hope it gets fixed.13:44
MooDoodavmor2: i'm giving up with trying to figure that out, i think we should stick to what we're good at, annoying czajkowski13:44
gordomgosh it installed!13:44
davmor2gord: yeah it does that, it fails to work after but it installs :P13:45
gordnope works fine13:45
davmor2gord: watch out for disappearing icons in app launcher it make launching an app like a huge guessing game, it's most fun13:46
gordnope launcher works fine13:46
mungojerrywill unity have a separate Preferences type section rather than lumping all under installed Applications?13:48
gordmungojerry, open apps place you then click the drop down menu to select system apps13:53
davmor2gord: give it time and you too can be effected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/72839313:54
lubotu3`Ubuntu bug 728393 in unity (Ubuntu) "Missing icons in app launcher" [High,Triaged]13:54
mungojerrygord: oh yeah, thanks ..don't recall seeing that last wek13:54
gordmungojerry, its new :)13:54
mungojerrygetting occasional screen corruption of text - anoyone else seeing that?13:55
mungojerrydifficult one to pin down on launchpad...13:55
gorddavmor2, nope, not affecting me at all13:55
davmor2gord: give it time my friend give it time :)13:56
gordseriously. no13:57
gordits something that is affecting your system, not mine13:57
davmor2gord: I know apparently it's really hard for the devs to track down too :(13:58
ali1234lol tooltips but no icons?14:00
gordubuntu pestering you for your password if you enable auto-login is weird, i obviously don't care about security if i enable autologin!14:09
czajkowskifile a bug :p14:10
AlanBellgord: if you don't need a password then the gnome keyring doesn't unlock14:11
AlanBellso you need to unlock that to get to the wifi key14:11
gordAlanBell, right, i know the technical reasons, but the experience is crappy14:11
AlanBellit is14:12
Davieygord, I remember overiding that years ago, by using a shell script essentially, echo "password" | into something on login.14:12
* czajkowski prods Daviey 14:12
* Daviey sobs, and wonders why the czajkowski is mean to him.14:12
mungojerryfound that bug 717114 matches my screen corruption issue14:12
* gord puts "echo "password" > something" in his session autostart list14:12
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 717114 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Natty) "[i945gm] Screen Corruption with new Xorg stack with terminal programs" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71711414:12
czajkowskiDaviey: I'm me14:13
Davieygord, NO!14:13
davmor2gord: it's not ubuntu it's gnome keyring,  there was a fix in place for that in lucid but I think it disappeared in maverick and never made a come back,   I know I bugged it for maverick14:13
mungojerrygord, i have the same issue, there must be a better way...14:13
Davieygord, it was piping it into something14:13
gordDaviey, oooh, "echo "password | something"14:14
Davieygord, lemme know if it works14:14
JamesTaitsomething: Command not found14:14
mungojerrybut your password appears as ******* in irc :P14:14
DavieyJamesTait, you need to install something, it's from the some-utils package14:14
* JamesTait spurts coffee out of his nose14:14
JamesTaitI must stop dropping in here, it's bad for my sinuses.14:15
JamesTaitNot to mention potentially detrimental to my productivity.14:15
AlanBellNo command 'something' found, did you mean: Command 'vsomething' from package 'util-vserver' (universe)14:16
* mungojerry can't stop eating adobe soap-flavoured jelly beans14:16
JamesTaitbtw, S04E01 opening argument is win++.14:16
DavieyAlanBell, ahh, that might be it14:16
AlanBellDaviey: clearly what you had in mind :)14:17
JamesTaitAnyway, back to work.14:17
mungojerryme too .lunch over14:17
AlanBellczajkowski: I think I will take a bunch of CDs to this thing14:20
AlanBellnot sure I will get a photo of RMS with an Ubuntu CD, but worth a try!14:20
czajkowskiAlanBell: yes I'm sure RMS will love that14:20
* BigRedS has an oracle CD on his desk...14:21
mungojerryAlanBell: maybe hide a load of ubuntu balloons inside a net on the ceiling, and let them drop at the right moment for a photo op14:21
davmor2MooDoo: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oneiric14:22
MooDoodavmor2: yes i was referring to Dreamy :)14:23
=== andylock1an is now known as andylockran
andylockranhey guys, anyone provide me some clues on fixing a boomerang nat?14:27
andylockrangot an internal ip of, an external ip of adn port 80 forwards to
andylockranwhen I access from - it works fine14:29
andylockranbut when I access from I get no conn - some kind of nat issue?14:29
popeywhy would you access the external IP from inside?14:30
popeythat makes no sense14:30
AlanBellit works on my router, but didn't work on my old one14:30
AlanBellit does make sense because you don't have to override the dns to get it to resolve right14:31
davmor2You can if you can pinhole it14:31
brobostigonanyone i can kindly prod, to get 730099 fixed?14:31
AlanBellbug 73009914:32
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 730099 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup 0c40b170 (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73009914:32
davmor2brobostigon: I'm confused how do you prod kindly?14:32
AlanBell#ubuntu-x perhaps14:32
brobostigondavmor2: speak nicely too. :)14:32
MooDoodavmor2: just like we do with czajkowski :)14:32
brobostigonAlanBell: already  done, no response.14:32
screen-xdavmor2: put the cattle prod down, the proceed as usual14:33
AlanBellwait for more timezones to wake up14:33
brobostigonAlanBell: i was on most of yesterday, no change.14:33
AlanBelland/or find someone with the same hardware to confirm it14:33
andylockranpopey: even though I set my mx in the hostfile, it's returning the DNS value ahead of the hosts value14:33
AlanBellyesterday was Sunday14:33
brobostigonAlanBell: good point.14:33
andylockranI could just do with a tech term for what it's called - so I can research it more14:34
AlanBellandylockran: show us that line of the hosts file?14:34
davmor2MooDoo: that for her own good it shows she's loved and that she's alive!14:34
brobostigonok, anyone got a eeepc 900, with the gpu in that bug, with natty, with all recent updates,who can confirm such exists please.14:34
andylockranAlanBell:    filter.zednax.com14:35
screen-xandylockran: hairpin nat http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_7-3/anatomy.html14:35
MooDoook shush listening to s4ep1 podcast14:35
AlanBellandylockran: and you ping filter.zednax.com and it returns something other than
andylockranAlanBell: if I ping it, I get filter.zednax.com on
andylockranar  7 14:33:20 mta0 postfix/smtp[4780]: connect to filter.zednax.com[]:25: Connection timed out14:36
andylockranbut I get that in the logs ^^14:36
AlanBelloooh ok14:36
screen-xandylockran: what do you have for hosts in /etc/nsswitch.conf?14:36
andylockranhosts:       files dns14:37
screen-xso /etc/hosts should take priority.14:37
AlanBellandylockran: http://www.postfix-jp.info/origdocs/QandA-en.html#4.1014:38
screen-xAlanBell: useful, didnt know that postfix did it's own dns resolution.14:39
AlanBellI recall being bitten by the "postfix doesn't care about /etc/hosts" thing before14:39
X3NIt's good that it doesn't quite a lot of the time I've found14:45
issyl0Hello all.14:46
issyl0dutchie: yep.  :-)14:46
andylockranawesome - thanks :)14:47
directhexpostfix is for people who don't understand exim14:47
X3NIt means that postfix is more reliably going to respond to mail hostnames that it knows it handles14:48
andylockranIt's only come up because I'm running it inside a Virtual Machine I think14:48
andylockrannormally never notice14:48
X3Nas hosts are often virtual14:48
dogmatic69does ubuntu have a 'pre install' of 10.10 x64 ec2 that i can use14:58
dogmatic69see some pre existing ones, but a official one would be cool14:58
=== PhilT is now known as Guest9873
screen-xdogmatic69: http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/lucid/current/15:03
dogmatic69screen-x: nice, looks like what i need15:03
dogmatic69any docs for that?15:03
screen-xdogmatic69: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide15:04
shaunolove short shifts :)  already home and the sun's still out :D15:09
screen-xshauno: great day to have an afternoon off :)15:10
dogmatic69its pretty awesome outside15:10
* shauno peeks out the curtains15:11
shaunoaye.  that fire thing is doing it's thing again15:12
MooDoonice ride home for me then :)15:12
shaunohm.  I appear to have broken something.  a file named /foo keeps appearing containing '10'.15:15
AzelphurHmm, trying to install 11.04. As soon as I get past the BIOS I just get a blinking cursor at the top left. Nothing else happens15:15
Azelphurany ideas?15:15
shaunodo you hear the disk even spin up at all?  (assuming you're installing from optical ..)15:15
AzelphurI installed from LiveUSB and it went into the Live mode and that was all fine15:16
Azelphurthis is post install15:16
hamitronno grub?15:16
Azelphurno grub, just blinking cursor :(15:16
DJonesAzelphur: Have you tried recovery mode15:19
MooDoolol number 14 please davina lol15:19
* MooDoo is listening to the podcast15:20
AzelphurDJones, how can I get recovery mode if theres no grub?15:20
dogmatic69what is the default for a ssh-keygen... not 1024bit RSA i take it15:20
Azelphurhttp://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur now you can all see my screen, btw :p15:20
screen-xAzelphur: I'd boot from install media and reinstall grub.15:20
DJonesAzelphur: Hold down the left shift key at boot, that should bring up the grub menu15:20
* Azelphur tries15:20
MooDooAzelphur: me looks15:20
MooDooAzelphur: yep that works15:21
AzelphurDJones, shift don't work, I don't think it makes it to grub15:21
AzelphurMooDoo, see the blinking cursor of doom? \o/15:21
Azelphurscreen-x, booting from USB now see if I get anyhere15:21
MooDooAzelphur: oi get your hand out the way :)15:21
screen-xAzelphur: whats with those pots in front of the screen?15:22
AzelphurI was getting my USB stick :p15:22
Azelphurscreen-x, that's my midi piano :D15:22
screen-xahh :)15:22
screen-xI see..15:23
Azelphurok so up in live, how do I reinstall grub?15:23
screen-xAzelphur: start with grub-install15:24
screen-xAzelphur: but you may need to chroot into the hdd install.15:24
Azelphurgonna use gparted quickly to check which drive to install to :)15:24
MartijnVdSFORE! http://i.imgur.com/XNKcx.jpg15:25
Azelphursays "error: found two disks with the index 0 for RAID md1." "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot stat aufs."15:25
Azelphurwhich is weird because I shouldn't have any raid arrays15:26
screen-xAzelphur: cat /proc/mdstat15:26
Azelphur"Personalities : " "unused devices: <none>"15:27
screen-xso no arrays are active, have the disks been used for RAID before?15:27
AzelphurI did try to raid them unsuccessfully a while back15:28
Azelphurbut I've been using them as single drives for a long time since then15:28
Azelphurscreen-x, looking at the drives in gparted, they don't have the raid flag15:31
screen-xAzelphur: try mdadm --assemble --scan and see if /proc/mdstat picks up anything.15:32
Azelphurscreen-x, no data loss on that right? :P15:32
screen-xpopey: I take it that means bad plan?15:32
AzelphurI don't want it to decide to "recover" an array that never existed, that won't end well15:32
popeyyou dont actually _want_ raid do you?15:33
Azelphurno I don't15:33
dogmatic69how do i create a pub key for aws?15:33
screen-xbut if the disks are identified as part of an array, then that label needs to be removed.15:33
dogmatic69using ssh-keygen ones is not working15:34
popeyassembling the array isnt wise though, surely?15:34
popeyAzelphur: what does sudo fdisk -l show?15:34
screen-xAzelphur: is there stuff you mind loosing on these disks?15:34
Azelphurscreen-x, yup lol15:34
popeyare they just marked as type fd or something?15:34
screen-xAzelphur: ahh sorry15:34
cbx33boo-ya all15:35
popeyget you15:35
* Azelphur grabs pastebinit15:35
screen-xAzelphur: bad assumption that people who have just installed, have no data to lose..15:35
Azelphurhaha, 4 drives on this machine15:35
AzelphurI'm all for wiping one of them, but not the others :D15:35
Azelphurtaking ages to do an update so I can get pastebinit :x15:37
Azelphurpopey, http://pastebin.com/HeYH1ZSq15:38
Azelphur /dev/sdb being the drive I installed on15:39
popeylooks sane15:39
popeywhats the problem again? :D15:39
Azelphurpopey, installed ok to /dev/sdb, but when I boot I get past the bios and then I just get a blinking cursor15:40
popeydid you specify where grub was to be installed?15:40
Azelphurnot during the install, no15:40
Azelphurmaybe it put grub on /dev/sda15:40
popeydo you choose the boot disk at boot time?15:41
popeybecause it might be booting off sda, but grub on sdb?15:41
Azelphurno, I have it set to sdb15:42
Azelphuryup, grub was on sda, it boots now15:42
popeythats fixable15:42
popeyif you want to15:42
Azelphur*shrug* I'm ok with it15:42
Azelphurnow the question is...how will unity fair with quad screen?15:42
AzelphurI have a feeling this will end somewhat badly15:43
AzelphurExperimental 3D support for NVIDIA cards o.O, I assume thats nouveau?15:43
shaunoooh.  I thought you were just bouncing names around.  he's actually going ahead with earache ocelot?  snazzy.15:52
* screen-x stops spying on Azelphur 15:53
TommehAzelphur: that would be nouveau15:53
TommehI think15:53
TommehIt's realted to KMS support, IIRC15:54
Azelphurlol compiz crashed and I havn't even done anything strange yet15:54
Azelphurlol yup, unity on quad screen = totally broken/unusable :D15:56
Azelphurfigured it'd be a step down as usual lol15:56
Azelphurtheres no task launcher on my other screen, and I don't even need to check to say it'll have a single instance check stopping it from coming up on the second screen :p15:56
AzelphurI wonder if nouveau can do proper multi screen.15:58
Azelphurpopey, the option from jockey disappeared :(15:59
Azelphurthat's a shame, I wanted to try it15:59
Azelphurit's probably gone because nouveau doesn't support the GTX 570 no doubt, though16:00
Tommehnouveau has RandR support.16:00
TommehAzelphur: if you pull down the xorg-edgers packages, I believe nouveau would16:00
Azelphurhow do I get the xorg-edgers packages?16:02
brobostigontheir ppa, i believe.16:02
TommehYes, have a google -- you'll find their PPA page.16:02
TommehIt includes the xorg drivers packaged from git -- same goes for X and mesa16:03
gordhuh, is there another census going on?16:03
gordi don't pay attention to anything uk based ;)16:03
TommehYou'll want to have a very recent kernel, too16:03
Tommeh2.6.38-rc7 is probably as good as any.16:03
* Tommeh is running it now :)16:03
Tommehgord: there is, and it might be the last16:03
Azelphurinstalling it now :D16:04
AzelphurTommeh, is there a ppa I should be on for kernels?16:05
TommehI think there is, but I just go straight to here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/16:05
TommehYou might prefer, https://launchpad.net/~kernel-ppa/+archive/ppa16:05
TommehBut I just install the .deb's manually with dpkg16:05
Azelphurhehe I'll go with the ppa *shrug*16:06
TommehAzelphur: Hmm.. Actually there's not much in that PPA16:07
TommehJust Natty backports for lucid16:07
Azelphuryea, apt-get update fails on that ppa for me16:07
TommehSo if you're running Natty, don't worry. And if you're on Maverick, download from the first URI16:07
AzelphurI'm on natty :)16:08
Azelphurthere we go, Experimental 3D support has returned, installing it now :)16:11
AzelphurTommeh, hmm doesn't look promising, I only see 2 of my 4 monitors in the display preferences16:17
AzelphurHow can I be sure I'm running nouveau? I'm still unsure as to if it'll work on my card :p16:18
popeylook in /var/log/Xorg.0.log16:20
TommehAzelphur: did you look at the feature matrix link? Support is listed there.16:21
TommehIIRC all of the cards have 2D support16:21
Azelphuryea I see lots oe nouveau in xorg.conf so I must be running it16:21
AzelphurTommeh, I doubt I'll find much info on >2 displays, it's a bit of a niche subject16:22
popeynot xorg.conf, /var/log/Xorg.0.log16:22
Azelphursorry, that's what I meant16:22
Azelphurbrain fart :p16:22
AzelphurIt see's the monitors on my GTX 570, but not the ones connected to the 8800GT16:22
TommehAzelphur: It won't specifically list that, I never intended for you to find that out16:22
TommehNouveau is mostly a WIP, so you should check to see if X RandR support is complete/WIP/not there, etc.16:23
AzelphurI see16:23
TommehAzelphur: spanning two cards is *definitely* a nich subject, lol16:23
Azelphurit's the only way to do more than 2 displays though16:23
TommehWell, it isn't16:23
Azelphurbarring the new ATI displayport stuff16:23
TommehExpensive though, I know what you mean16:24
Azelphurand ATI + Wine games = lolno16:24
Azelphurand also dual head to go + games = lolno :p16:24
Azelphurso yea, only choice is multi card if you need performance and lots of displays16:24
TommehATI FOSS 3D accel is based on Gallium3D, in the same way that Nouveau's is16:26
TommehSo you'll likely have as much luck with either of those (if not less with nouveau)16:26
TommehBut anyway, you know there's a16:26
Tommeh*you know there's a #nouveau channel?16:27
Azelphuralready there :D16:27
TommehAh :)16:27
TommehMind the cranky dev.16:27
* Azelphur takes cover :p16:28
Azelphurhaha, they are being nice to me because they want a mimo trace from my gtx 570 :D16:31
popeythey are nice anyway16:33
popeyone of the guys there fixed a bug I had with nouveau in a matter of minutes16:33
popeyand I was able to patch and test it myself16:33
SuperMattthat reminds me, I need to raise a bug about mouse buttons, but I don't know where to start16:34
kazadepopey, with a tiny bit of help ;)16:34
SuperMattessentially, if you switch mouse buttons for lefties, on occsion it won't let you "left click" (which is now on the right) until you've "right clicked" (which is now on the left)16:34
Azelphurpopey, indeed :)16:35
jacobw2\o/ new podcast16:37
* jacobw2 is listening to now16:37
BigRedSSuperMatt: I'd go with something X-related16:38
BigRedShow easy is it to reproduce?16:39
SuperMattit seems to just happen about once an hour16:39
SuperMattI can't work out if there's anything that causes it16:39
BigRedShmm, bit weird. But, yeah, if you can demonstrate its existence (or lack of) outside of, say, Gnome, that'd help pick a package16:40
SuperMattoh man, you mean install kde or lxde? D:16:40
BigRedSor, alternatively, file a bug against something of your choosing and someone who knows more than you may come along and reassign it16:40
BigRedShah, I'd never wish to impose either of those on anyone :)16:40
MooDoojacobw2: the quiz is funny :)16:40
BigRedSactually, I've never seen lxde, so I've no idea what it's like16:41
bigcalmGood afternoon peeps :)16:41
SuperMattBigRedS: I was thinking of raising it against gnome-mouse-properties, seeing as that is what I used to switch the buttons16:41
BigRedSAh yeah, that seems as good a place as any16:41
BigRedSyou'll at least get all the mousey gnome people16:42
SuperMattI thought so16:42
BigRedSwho're best placed, if need be, to say "no. that's a problem in Y"16:42
SuperMattI imagine there just aren't many people in the world that'd be bothered to switch it16:42
SuperMattquestion is, raise it in ubuntu, or raise it in gnome? Because right now I know it only to affect ubuntu16:42
silnerBigRedS, have you seen openbox? It's similar to Lxde in many ways16:43
BigRedSsilner: yeah, I keep flitting between openbox and gnome16:43
BigRedSwell, *box and gnome, openbox is the most recent one16:44
brobostigonsilner: openbox is lxde's WM, as far as i know.openbox is a WM, and lxde is a DE.16:44
BigRedSbrobostigon: ahhhh, so it's somebody else having gone to the trouble of configuring openbox?16:45
brobostigonis the*16:45
BigRedSthat's why I keep going back to gnome... :)16:45
silnerbrobostigon no owned they seem similar :)16:45
silnerSome systems say they use OB and others Lxde - no wonder I couldn't tell the difference :)16:46
brobostigonsilner: they are fundementally different, but you canuse openbox as a WM, without anything else ontop, yes.16:46
silnerI like Crunchbang's implementation and I like Lubuntu too16:48
silnerI'd say CB has the edge but it's close16:48
brobostigonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LXDE#Components confirmed, openbox alone, or lxde as the DE, and openbox as the WM.16:48
kazadewhat the...16:50
kazadeI just opened Libreoffice in the first time in ages16:50
kazadeanyone else got catastrophically bad idcons ?16:50
silnerbrobostigon,  Right so my guess now is that Lubuntu is Lxde, but Crunchbang uses OpenBox slightly differently16:50
silnerI nearly always use Abiword now, though I will try Libreoffice soon out of curiosity16:51
brobostigonsilner: lubuntu uses lxde as its DE (openbox as its WM). crunchbang used openbox alone.16:51
silnerbrobostigon, strange - you'd think that would make Lxde seem fuller, but it doesn't feel that way. CB is nicer, but it's not much faster16:52
brobostigonas it says there, it uses oopenbox alone,16:53
popeycrunchbang uses openbox and xfce16:53
brobostigonpopey: i understand, it canuse either, or.16:54
brobostigonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrunchBang_Linux#Features as it says there.16:54
silnerCB is a very interesting project. It's way more than the usual offshoot or Ubuntu or Debian. I know it includes some non free stuff, but it seems like only the stuff that has no real FREE correlates to me16:56
silnerI have used CB as my netbook distro for some time now - Ubuntu Desktop and Fedora laptop (Fedora supports PCMCIA card batter)16:57
BigRedSi keep meaning to try crunchbang, but I'm getting a bit bored of distro-hopping recently16:58
BigRedSI've become a proper debian user I think. I despise change...16:58
silnerI don't distro hop as such any more BigRedS I just like all three for different purposes and intend to keep it that way16:59
popeysilner: what non-free stuff does it include?17:00
silnerSkype is the main one I use popey17:00
popey(I didnt see any non-free stuff when i installed it on my eee900)17:00
popeythats not included by default, the cb_welcome script goes and gets it and installs it as an option17:00
popeybut you have to choose to do it17:01
silnerOh I may have installed it popey I've had it for a while now - not even this version17:01
silnerNot statler17:01
popeyI am running statler17:01
popeyits very nice17:01
popeyhas a first run wizard that lets you chosoe extra stuff to install17:01
Azelphurpopey, happen to know if theres a way to disable unity in 11.04?17:01
popeyshame its based on debian and not ubuntu now :(17:01
BigRedSAzelphur: apt-get install gnome I'd have thought17:02
popeyAzelphur: yes, login with classic desktop17:02
popeyno BigRedS17:02
BigRedSoh, or that. even easieer17:02
silnerI do need to upgrade but I really hate the backup thing. One reason I could never work in tech :)17:02
Azelphurah, sounds easy17:02
AzelphurI'd use it if it worked with multiple X screens17:02
Azelphurhopefully one day the nouveau people will rescue me from my multi X pain :p17:02
silnerpopey, does that make any practical difference though17:02
silnerI was wondering that popey would statler deprive me of using Ubuntu ppas - like Pino for eg?17:03
SuperMattBigRedS: I hope this explains my issue clearly enough: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/73073717:05
lubotu3`Ubuntu bug 730737 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "After swapping mouse buttons in gnome-mouse-properties, the buttons occasionally "hang"" [Undecided,New]17:05
popeysilner: well, it's never going to be a blessed downstream if it's based on debian :)17:06
bigcalmpopey: http://www.myrant.net/2011/03/07/mimicking-wordpress-coms-image-resize-uris/ # may or may not be of use to you17:11
bigcalmHaha, I got 2 ping back notifications as I linked 2 posts to each other17:11
BigRedSSuperMatt: thinking about it, I might've seen that with the buttons the right-way-round17:18
BigRedSI'll have to check with the guy that had it17:18
bigcalmI do like the system of adding width and height to the end of an image URI to resize it17:18
davmor2czajkowski, popey: And others have you written out your UDS proposals yet?17:19
popeydavmor2: no17:22
=== zeth_ is now known as zeth
=== Seeker`_ is now known as Seeker
popeytbh I can't see myself getting sponsored17:24
popeythere's a lot more 'important' people out there17:25
lubotu3`popey is the UK alternative to elvis.17:25
bigcalmWho is more important than a Pope?17:25
popeyA dog?17:25
davmor2popey: there's always a need for a mic monkey ;)17:25
bigcalmA: everybody17:25
Azelphurpopey, any idea what happened to the Visual Effects tab on Appearance properties?17:33
popeyAzelphur: what do you mean by "happened"?17:35
Azelphurthe tab in Appearance properties for enabling compiz17:35
Azelphurwell, happened as in it's gone17:35
popeywhat session are you logged into?17:35
davmor2Azelphur: is this in Natty17:35
Azelphuryup natty17:35
Azelphurpopey, classic desktop17:35
popeysurely its already enabled?17:36
popeyas in compiz17:36
davmor2Azelphur: Unity only works in 3d mode17:36
AzelphurI'm in classic desktop so no unity17:36
popeythere's two session options, one with and one without compiz17:36
AzelphurI see17:36
Azelphurthey probably replaced it with that then17:36
* popey logs out of unity to see17:36
Azelphurwhat irritates me is I don't know how to start compiz properly for multi X without that button :D17:37
popeyALT+F2, compiz --replace17:37
popeyis the old school way of doing it17:37
brobostigoninteresting, on three payg, for £15 a quid a month, you get unlimited data,17:37
popeyyes, on GDM screen there is under sessions "Ubuntu Classic Desktop" and "Ubuntu Classic Desktop (No effect)17:37
popey*unlimited: note, not unlimited.17:38
Azelphurpopey, I thought 3 had decided to stop doing that?17:38
gordsomeone submitted a patch, have to get them to sign the CC first but its great, lets you have any size launcher in unity. have a 32-pixel width one at the moment17:38
popeyhow wide is it usually?17:38
MartijnVdScan I move the launcher bar yet?17:38
davmor2popey: 64 iirc17:39
gorderm 42 i think17:40
gordMartijnVdS, iirc thats being left up to a community person, for RTL languages17:40
bigcalmAny suggestions for some nice piano music?17:40
MartijnVdSgord: I want it for my LTR language tbh :)17:41
* brobostigon tries to find three's payg "all you can eat",terms and conditions.17:41
Azelphurhmm, not getting along with the new media player (banshee), it doesn't seem interested in opening m3u files for internet radio at all17:44
AzelphurRhythmbox handled em no problem17:44
AzelphurRhythmbox was like "I'm batman" and added them to the internet radio tab so I could change station easy :D17:45
davmor2Azelphur: known bug thought it got fixed.  Start banshee from command line and try it again to confirm it is that bug17:46
Azelphurdavmor2, weird, worked when I tried it from command line17:48
Azelphurany way for me to put m3u/pls into the Radio tab?17:48
davmor2Azelphur: in that case known bug.  for that you have to add a radio station from fresh I think17:48
Azelphurfun \o/17:49
Azelphurguess I'll jump to banshee to follow the crowd once that's fixed, I only use media players for internet radio :p17:49
davmor2Azelphur: I'm with you in that I think RB is the better player but the community spoke out and wanted banshee17:49
davmor2Azelphur: there is a stream cast plugin that gives you loads of channels17:50
Azelphurhmm, it doesn't seem to ship with it17:51
* brobostigon cant find, three's "all you can eat" apparent unlimited data allowance, terms and conditions.17:51
Azelphurfound it in the repo, but it supporting shoutcast.com and not icecast.com makes me facepalm17:52
Azelphuricecast being the non-evil, open source allowed version of shoutcast17:52
MartijnVdSAzelphur: Banshee is mono.. that's already evil :)17:56
MartijnVdSAzelphur: evil + evil = good?17:56
davmor2Azelphur: I didn't say it was perfik I just said it was there17:56
Azelphurwow mono17:56
bigcalmWho chose to name it after the 'kissing disease'?17:57
AzelphurI'll go back to rb :D17:57
jpdsbigcalm: Spanish/Catalan for monkey.17:57
bigcalmSo no referece to .NET in the name17:58
jpdsNo, just the native language of the creator.17:58
popeyhe loves monkeys17:58
bigcalmI see :)17:58
bigcalmpopey: who doesn't?17:59
popeywell, indeed17:59
bigcalmI'm a code monkey17:59
jpdspopey: "El ama a los mono", repete.17:59
=== cbx33 is now known as Guest88182
=== cbx333 is now known as cbx33
gilIs there a nice current ppa for playing with gnome-shell on natty? All the ppas I've managed to find seem to be obsoleted or borked :(18:08
brobostigongil: try the gnome3 teams, it all there, :)18:09
brobostigongil: and it not broken, i have it running here, no broken'ness.18:09
cbx33is it nice?18:10
cbx33like gnome?18:10
MartijnVdSit's so clean they're even removing the maximize/minimize buttons now18:12
MartijnVdSthey're out of other things to remoev18:12
bigcalmI can understand not needing them if you're on a 10" screen. But anything bigger and you might want to be able to resize at the click of a button18:13
* bigcalm is sad18:14
MartijnVdSI'll keep using Gnome 2 then18:15
X3Nthey're not totally gone, it's just in a context menu now18:15
brobostigoniam part-time gnome-shell/gnome3 and unity, right now.18:15
X3Nthe breif rational is that maximise can be done by dragging the app to the top and you don't need minimise because you have automatic workspaces18:16
MartijnVdSyeah I discovered that "feature" in compiz the other day18:17
MartijnVdSit also does "half-maximizing" if you drag to the left or right side of the screen18:18
MartijnVdSwhich is annoying if you're trying to tile up terminals :)18:18
X3NI suspect that'll be something developed in the future18:18
andypiperCan anyone help me to work out where on launchpad a bug belongs?18:20
andypiperI installed a fresh Natty Alpha 3 on a netbook18:21
andypiperbut on boot, no input buttons / clicks work18:21
andypipergoes for touchpad, and for USB mouse18:21
andypiperif I switch to a console and reinsert psmouse module then it "sometimes" comes back but I'm still not seeing the trackpad buttons working, only tap-to-click18:21
andypipernot sure - is this kernel?18:22
* andypiper taps the side of the glass bottle18:24
AzelphurI'm poking popey way too much today, but he probably knows :x18:25
gordandypiper, might be xorg, try asking #ubunt-x maybe?18:25
X3Nandypiper: can you use external mouse/keyboard?18:25
andypiperkeyboard is interesting in Unity! you can search for apps in the launcher panel, but then you can't select them without using the mouse18:25
andypiperexternal mouse - I figured plugging on in would work, but no, only moves pointer, no clicks work18:26
Baikonuri'm alternating between wonders of the solar system and 'look around you'18:29
Baikonurto make sure i'm kept in balance18:30
bigcalmWish they made more of Look Around You18:36
andylockranhey dudes18:46
* andylockran is on my new macbook pro :p18:47
andylockranno what you want to hear I guess18:47
andylockrancan you get terminator for OSX.?18:47
BigRedSandylockran: yeah18:54
BigRedShah, no, not that terminator :)18:55
andylockranthe terminator as in apt-get install terminator ?18:55
andylockranis that the same as the tenshu.net one ?18:55
BigRedSandylockran: I think they are the same18:56
BigRedSit's jessies.org that's the different one18:56
BigRedSa java-based terminal emulator18:56
andylockranah, ok18:57
andylockranI'll take a look at the fink project soon I'm sure..18:58
AzelphurI'm trying to help the nouveau people by getting an mmio trace for my gtx 570, In order to do so I need to reload the nvidia module18:59
AzelphurI can unload it ok, but when I try and modprobe it again it says it doesn't exist18:59
brobostigonhttp://blog.three.co.uk/2010/12/15/new-all-you-can-eat-data-on-the-one-plan/ they are saying there, no fair use policy and no data restrictions.18:59
brobostigonidoubt it, very much,19:00
MartijnVdSif only they did that here19:00
Azelphurbrobostigon, I'm pretty sure three don't have one, their CEO came out with a press release a while back stating that advertising unlimited when it wasn't really unlimited was one of the dumbest things he'd ever done.19:00
brobostigonAzelphur: so it is truly what it says it is, then?19:01
Azelphurbased on what I've read, yes I'd say so19:02
dutchieandylockran: you could just ask Ng, as he did write the thing (and istr uses a mac)19:02
Azelphurit really is unlimited no fup19:02
AzelphurSky unlimited for landlines is also unlimited no fup19:02
brobostigonAzelphur: thats amazing in which case, i am impressed.19:02
Azelphurbrobostigon, indeed, if you look around the three website now you'll see they do have plans that are capped too, but the caps are clearly advertisied19:03
Azelphurthere is no unlimited* crap19:03
AzelphurI spend a lot of my time looking for the no fup isps :p19:04
Azelphurgiffgaff for your mobile, three for your mobile broadband, sky for landline adsl :D19:04
Azelphurthey all have no FUP19:04
AzelphurI also believe one of the virgin packages has no FUP (the MAX one?)19:05
Azelphurthe evil fup trend may be ending :D19:05
andylockrandutchie: that would be sensible.19:26
andylockranping Ng19:26
brobostigoni think i will try one of three's payg free sims, and see what there coverage and things are like,19:30
brobostigontest them out.19:30
dutchiei beg your pardon popey?19:31
brobostigonhas popey had a drink?19:32
=== lubotu3` is now known as lubotu3
andylockranhow's things popey19:33
Azelphurhalp I broke apt :( http://pastebin.com/Y2F9CiUh19:41
Azelphurwhen ever I try and install anything I get that19:41
MartijnVdSAzelphur: remove the line that tries to remove that key from /var/lib/dpkg/info/pidgin-ppa.postrm19:42
MartijnVdSAzelphur: (just put a # in front of the line)19:42
MartijnVdSthis is wizard-level hackery, beware :)19:42
Azelphursuccess :D19:43
MartijnVdSAzelphur: only one level up from here.. editing /var/lib/dpkg/available :)19:50
dogmatic69_im ssh'ed into my slicehost server and clicking on terminal does funny things.. outputting garbage19:54
dogmatic69_any clue what this is?19:54
MartijnVdSdogmatic69_: yes. A program set the terminal to "report mouse events" mode19:55
MartijnVdSbut didn't turn it off when it terminated19:55
dogmatic69_new terminal works ok, thanks19:56
MartijnVdSdogmatic69_: there is a way to disable it19:56
dogmatic69_could be cheokee or htop19:56
dogmatic69_had a broken pipe on that window19:56
MartijnVdShtop probably19:57
MartijnVdSecho -e '\e[?1000l'20:00
MartijnVdSthat should disable it :)20:00
Azelphurlol, watching the debug log for compiz to figure out where my window decorations are going20:05
Azelphur"unity-window-decorator" <errorspam>20:05
Azelphur"Oh, that's where they are going"20:05
caulkzevening :)20:11
Azelphurlol I just had an interesting thought, if you completely replace every element of the UI, is it still Ubuntu? XD20:19
ali1234if you use ubuntu repos it's ubuntu20:19
Azelphursuppose :p20:19
ali1234if you are actually going to go to the trouble building your own ui you may as well use debian20:20
ali1234since you won't benefit in any way from any of the work put into ubuntu20:20
AzelphurI'm not building anything really, it's just I use cairo-dock instead of gnome-panel, I don't use nautilus desktop, I have my own theme and everything20:21
Azelphurif you was to look at it you wouldn't be able to tell it was Ubuntu at all20:21
hewbassEvening all!20:25
HazRPGhowdy everyone20:26
MartijnVdS \o haz20:26
hewbassLiking the new flashy Unity on Ubuntu Natty... I shall be interested to see how much I still like it after prolonged use :) (well... it is quite a change)20:26
hewbass(although it took me a while to realise that F10 was the way to get keyboard focus to the indicators!)20:27
HazRPGMartijnVdS: \o20:32
brobostigonevening HazRPG :)20:32
HazRPGbrobostigon: evening :)20:32
HazRPGseems the guy who had trouble with my extension tried to chat me with earlier, but I wasn't around. They've just opened up a chat just now, however they're not replying... which is weird :S20:33
ali1234wow debian comes on 8 dvds20:33
Azelphurneeds moar dvds.20:34
ali1234i guess that's the whole of all the repos20:34
HazRPGali1234: woaahhhh20:34
Azelphuryea, it is20:34
hewbassDoes anybody else see the 'Unknown body response' error when using IMAP+ in evolution? (I get it with large gmail folders such as '[GMail]/All Mail'?20:34
AzelphurTrying to play minecraft, keep getting java.awt.HeadlessException...but I'm not headless20:34
ali1234hewbass: not seen that one but evolution is pretty awful with gmail in general20:34
Azelphurindeed, I use Thunderbird with gmail20:35
HazRPGhewbass: hmm, I don't seem to have trouble with IMAP (without the plus sign)20:35
DJonesAzelphur: If I didn't know better, I'd suggest you were playing on a headless server, but with 4 screens ...... I guess not :)20:35
hewbassali1234: gmail is not kind to any imap clients, but I have not found evolution to be particularly bad (although it is slow compared to Thunderbird)20:35
AzelphurDJones: haha20:35
brobostigonk9 on android seems pretty good, after a few weeks of using it.20:36
Azelphurso can anyone help me get minecraft working? http://pastebin.com/Jqi3dufx20:36
hewbassHazRPG: works fine with IMAP (no plus) ... but I would like to use the IDLE option (available with from IMAP+)20:36
AzelphurI have a house to build :(20:36
danfish+1 for k920:36
HazRPGhewbass: try it with IMAP regular, then change the settings to IMAP+ and see if that works20:36
HazRPGthat way it doesn't have to download the whole lot20:37
HazRPGhewbass: if that does fix the problem, might be worth sending them a bug report20:37
Azelphurbrobostigon danfish +1 too :P20:37
hewbassHazRPG: it caches IMAP and IMAP+ completely seperately, so it does re-download the whole lot...20:37
danfishevening all btw :)20:37
HazRPGbrobostigon: k9?20:38
HazRPGdanfish: evening :)20:38
brobostigonevening danfish :)20:38
hewbassHazRPG: will try to gather enough information for a bug report I guess...20:38
brobostigonHazRPG: k9 is an android email client.20:38
HazRPGhewbass: my gmail is very full too, I'll see if I can get the same effect on mine to help confirm it is a bug :)20:40
HazRPGbut brb for a moment20:40
hewbassHazRPG: Thx!20:40
danfishbrobostigon: and one that has been very actively and well developed over the last year IMO20:40
brobostigondanfish: i agree, yes, it has improved alot. and is fully OSS, :)20:41
* danfish really wants an affordable, well spec'd android tablet20:42
MartijnVdSdanfish: Wait a few years :)20:42
* brobostigon too.20:42
danfishideally that could boot ubuntu aswell20:42
MartijnVdSor: would you like a pony with that? :)20:42
brobostigonand haiku-os.20:42
danfishMartijnVdS: I know - moon on a stick...20:42
danfishanyone see the ISS and shuttle overhead this evening?20:43
Azelphuryay got minecraft working20:43
brobostigondanfish: i didnt know, :(20:43
brobostigonand it is a clear night, aswell.20:44
dutchiei saw them the other day20:44
danfishbrobostigon: don't worry - they are visible for two more nights20:44
danfishlet me get the linl20:44
HazRPGbrobostigon: nice :)20:45
* MartijnVdS saw the ISS a while ago20:45
brobostigondanfish: which direction ? what angle and compass direction ?20:45
MartijnVdSbut usually it's too light polluted here :(20:45
brobostigonMartijnVdS: i am lucky, i am on the inner skirts of a smalltown, so its not too bad.20:45
brobostigonthank you danfish :)20:46
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: I'm just north of an area full of greenhouses...20:46
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: who keep their lights on at night to make stuff grow faster20:46
brobostigonMartijnVdS: ah, not good, :(20:46
HazRPGdoesn't even know what an ISS is...20:46
MartijnVdSHazRPG: space station20:46
brobostigonHazRPG: international space station*20:46
HazRPGah wait, yes I do then :)20:47
hewbassHas anyone been using Natty for a reasonable amount of time? The effort going into the design (and implementation) is quite noticeable -- the New Unity is a big improvement...20:48
brobostigonok, if i have 3g  turned on, k9 will take less  time to check email's. if i have it only on 2g, k9  will take longer to get email. which will use less power overall. ?20:48
directhexwhat's your polling interval?20:49
brobostigondanfish: push, no polling.20:49
ali1234brobostigon: 2g will use less power20:49
brobostigonali1234: i agree, yes.20:50
danfishbrobostigon: IIRC android at present doesn't really do pushing in the conventional sense, but tries to maintain a constant connection20:50
ali1234unless you get 100000 emails per day, you wont see much speed difference20:50
hewbassbrobostigon: if I remember correctly, it (on average) takes more power to hold an open (but idle) 3G packet connection than a 2G packet connection (your mileage may vary with distance to tower, and how much congestion)20:50
MartijnVdShewbass: that's changing with operators adopting a new "hot standby" mode for 3G though20:51
ali1234well, unless your imap client is completely broken and likes to download the whole mailbox every time20:51
brobostigondanfish: can you elaborate please.20:51
brobostigonali1234: hmm, ok.20:51
ali1234*cough* maemo 5 *cough*20:51
MartijnVdS"Network Controlled Fast Dormancy"20:51
brobostigonhewbass: i have my suspictions, on that, :)20:51
danfishbrobostigon: let me find the link - it's from some mqtt stuff i've been doing20:51
brobostigondanfish: thank you.20:52
brobostigonhowever the idea in my head was, wont it take less power, if it takes lessrunning time for k9  to be running.20:52
hewbassMartijnVds: I thought they'd only just got around to agreeing the standard? I didn't think anyone was deploying kit/software updates to take care of it yet?20:52
caulkzdone a whois, works - thanks guys :D20:52
danfishbrobostigon: the gist of it is here http://tokudu.com/2010/how-to-implement-push-notifications-for-android/20:53
brobostigondanfish: thank you.20:53
MartijnVdShewbass: T-Mobile is deploying it in the Netherlands20:54
MartijnVdShewbass: most new phones do it20:54
ali12343G idle seems to use more battery than wifi idling20:54
brobostigonali1234: i thought wifi used alot of battery, wow.20:55
hewbassMartijnVds: cool...20:55
ali1234it does, 3G uses even more...20:55
brobostigonouch. :(20:55
brobostigonali1234: i think i might need to carry a hydrogen fuel cell around with me soon, to power my phone.20:56
HazRPGits too cloudy to see the ISS :(20:56
HazRPGwhere I am20:57
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: piezo generators on your joints :)20:57
ali1234you could just get a normal phone20:57
cbx33hey - good evening peeps20:57
brobostigonMartijnVdS: interesting idea, :)20:57
ali1234instead of fancy android stuff20:57
MartijnVdSali1234: a what?20:57
hewbassbrobostigan: older wifi chipsets/softwares were power hungry. Bear in mind with wifi, you are generally pretty close to the basestation, and the phone's firmware will not be so aggressive about maintaining a connection. If you get bad/no tower reception when set to 3G you might notice your phone getting warmer to the hand as it ramps up power to the amplifiers to try and hold a signal...20:58
caulkzsorry guys, wrong channel :/20:58
MartijnVdSmy phone only gets hot when I use its CPU20:59
HazRPGhewbass: what settings do you have on evolution to see if I can recreate this problem?20:59
brobostigonhewbass: i am getting about a 50% 3g signal here, so it isnt bad, but could be better, i have noticed much heat yet,20:59
hewbassMartijnVds: you play too many video games on it? :)21:00
MartijnVdShewbass: no, but sometimes the web browser goes mad and when I check it has 30 tabs open21:00
* brobostigon has quake on his once.21:00
hewbassbrobostigan: my phone used to warm my pocket, deep in our office building when it could not get a signal...21:00
brobostigonhewbass: wow, not good.21:01
hewbassHazRPG: the only setting I changed was to set the receive protocol to IMAP+ and turn on idle...21:01
hewbassBetter go... got chores to do. G'night everyone!21:01
brobostigonhewbass: i think the next few days, i will do power measuremets, with background data off and all that, wirth only k9 on pushretrieval, and see how it behaves.21:02
brobostigonok, ohwell.21:02
brobostigonwashing up, here we come, :(21:02
brobostigonwashing up done,21:18
brobostigonback pain though,21:18
HazRPGHmm, I just wondered... do we not have like an ubuntu-uk calendar?21:19
HazRPGlike a shared google maps one or something21:19
brobostigonHazRPG: tht is a good idea, :)21:19
HazRPGfor having meeting dates, meet-ups, etc21:19
brobostigonyes, :)21:20
HazRPGwould be nice, since we could set our phones, widgets, whatever we use for keeping track of stuff, to all be in sync :)21:20
HazRPGWould be awesome right?21:20
HazRPGI mean, podcast release dates, live dates for podcast, etc could even be put on there, etc :)21:21
HazRPGsince those are things I've started to put in anyways21:21
brobostigonHazRPG: we have an ubuntu-cymru one, and a unity-coders one, so,21:22
HazRPGwe do?21:22
brobostigonHazRPG: we as in, some of the other groups i work with,21:23
HazRPGI was thinking just a general ubuntu-uk stuff, something we all mainly use - or dates we'd like to know about, etc21:23
popeywe do21:23
HazRPGpopey: do we?21:23
popeyical link is there too21:24
HazRPGAh, that's for meet ups, is there not one for meetings?21:24
popeywe can add meetings to that too21:24
HazRPGpopey: yeah I noticed ;)21:24
HazRPGMaybe eeven the quiz :)21:25
HazRPGwhen a date gets decided on :)21:25
HazRPGpopey: awesome, would be great if ya did :)21:26
brobostigonthe ical seems to work with google calendar,21:26
HazRPGbrobostigon: :)21:26
HazRPGpopey: oh heh, just realised that page is /sort of/ tied in via the LoCo Directory link21:28
HazRPGpopey: Might be worth having the events link as a tab at the top :)21:28
HazRPGAh, there is a meeting one too21:29
HazRPGah has hewbass left?21:33
HazRPGhe did21:33
HazRPGcan't seem to recreate his problem :(21:33
brobostigonthe wake usage, on my htc dream, is lower with 3g on, weird,21:33
HazRPGbrobostigon: that is strange21:33
brobostigon1.5% roughtly.21:33
brobostigonk9 doesnt seem to be picking up emails, so push'ing isnt working.21:35
brobostigonsomething is wrong, me thinks,21:36
danfishI had an HTC Dream until sone number 2 dropped it in a glass of water - after that the Dream died.....21:36
HazRPGpopey: guessing the events category is just blog posts correct?21:37
danfishbrobostigon: switch to periodic checking - will save battery life and at the end of the day, do you need to be instantly contactable?21:38
brobostigondanfish: my three gadgets, my htc dream, my n800, and my eeepc, :)21:38
HazRPGoh wow, just realised the podcast is live!21:38
brobostigondanfish: thats a good point, yes.21:38
brobostigondanfish: however one of the joys of imap, isnt it,that emails can come through instntaniously.21:39
danfishbrobostigon: true. I can't remember, but a podcast a bit ago talked about living online 'asynchronously vs synchronously.21:40
HazRPGoh wait, no it isn't - that was an old post21:40
danfishcan't remeber which podcast tho'21:40
brobostigondanfish: you arte right though, i have no urgency to be contabtable, within an 30mins,maybe.21:41
Ngandylockran: wat21:41
jpdsNg: s/t$/s/21:42
Ngandylockran: were you wondering about Terminator on OSX? It is possible. I've never tried the fink method, but I did install it with MacPorts (which means building gtk and gcc and all sorts of things), but overall I'd say the user experience is kinda disappointing on the different OS and even though I don't like it as much, iTerm2 seems better21:42
Ngjpds: danke :)21:43
jpdsNg: langsam, aber sicher.21:43
brobostigondanfish: i will try polling every 30mins,21:51
andylockranNg: just installing it via the fink method at the moment22:04
andylockranwhat's new with you guys?22:11
ali1234"Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads of longer than 15 minutes." what?22:14
ali1234i thought that was only for youtube partners?22:14
hamitronyou have stalked youtube for long enough, so it has given in and "wants" you?22:15
ali1234i have enough trouble just uploading a couple of minute videos22:15
ali1234don't think i could actually have the patience to upload 15 minute long videos22:17
ali1234and it looks like my ogv broke it22:17
ali1234maybe it will work when its finished22:17
ali1234well, so, pitivi default settings don't work on youtube, this is bad22:17
ali1234let's try vp8 then22:19
dogmatic69_how do i cat a file so it keeps streaming22:22
dogmatic69_forgot how i was doing it before22:22
* dogmatic69_ facepalm22:22
ali1234does anyone know how to encode vp8 video that does not look like a bad impressionist watercolour?22:54
ali1234giving dirac a go... quality is decent23:03
ali1234ok, youtube doesn't even try to play dirac23:05
cbx33right guess I'd better go to sleep23:09
brobostigongood night everyone.sleep well.23:12
AlanBellEvening all23:19
AlanBellI met RMS23:20
AlanBellRMS met me23:20
daftykinsi see23:21
AlanBellAnd I had a drink that contained bananas23:22
cbx33sounds like a surreal evening23:24
caulkzhmm, would ubuntu give its name to a canned beer product?? lol23:24
directhexAlanBell, did you feel enlightened as he stood before you, big magnetic halo glowing?23:24
daftykinsthat's been around for a while as far as i know23:24
zleapmarch 30th document freedom day23:24
directhexthere's a fairtrade cola under the name ubuntu23:24
daftykinsas 'ubuntu' is a philosophy :>23:24
directhexnothing to do with the linux23:24
* daftykins pats directhex 23:24
daftykinshope you're well hexy!23:25
caulkzUbuntu beer - 100pc beer 0pc crap lol23:25
andylockranAlanBell: was that up in Sheffers?23:25
AlanBellIn london23:25
AlanBellHe told us all that Mono is the way of the future23:26
=== caulkz is now known as \caulkz
daftykinsRMS talking about Mono, i'm seeing a musical pattern here23:27
directhexmono's old hat. the cool kids are all using quadrophonic these days23:29
daftykinsin qua...qua...qua... QUADRAPHONIOOOOOOO23:30
daftykinsas the present day 3D adverts go.23:30
ali1234my synthesizer has 8 voice polyphony23:31
ali1234unfortunately each one is only 2 bit23:32
ali1234so it sounds terrible23:32
ali1234unfortunately youtube rejected all the nice codecs23:34
ali1234so i'm onto ffmpeg now23:34
ali1234hmm... well, that encoded an awful lot faster than the ogv23:36
daftykinsdoes that mean it looks like a pencil sketch now? :D23:36
ali1234like, 100x faster23:38
ali1234does it use vdpau or something? (is that even possible?)23:38
ali1234no, it looks significantly better than the vp8 (which came out at 1.9MB) and about the same as the theora (29MB) - and it's 11MB23:38
ali1234but the video is basically a still image anyway23:38
ali1234aaaaand. it actually worked too23:39
ali1234lol youtube recognizes the music even though it's horribly mangled23:40
daftykinsali1234: what did you make ffmpeg spit out then?23:49
ali1234dunno. mp4?23:50
ali1234i'm doing it all through the pitivi UI so it's a bit hard to know what it is really doing23:50

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!