[00:18] <bigcalm> AlanBell: http://cuth.eu/resize
[00:22] <ikonia> my quest for a solid intel based motherboard and quadcore cpu continues
[00:25] <HazRPG> my quest for a c64 disk drive does :P
[00:26] <ikonia> HazRPG: do you really want one ?
[00:26] <ikonia> I have about 4
[00:26] <ikonia> maybe more
[00:27]  * hamitron has decided to stick with dual core with his new comp
[00:28] <HazRPG> ikonia: really? The actual disk drives?
[00:28] <HazRPG> :o!
[00:29] <HazRPG> ikonia: I just recently won a bid for a c64 off ebay :)
[00:29] <hamitron> :)
[00:29] <ikonia> HazRPG: the 1541 drives
[00:29] <HazRPG> but I would like to be able to move stuff between PC and c64
[00:29] <ikonia> 3 different generations
[00:29] <HazRPG> yeah that's the one
[00:29] <hamitron> can't the c64 support a network?
[00:30] <ikonia> hamitron: ther is a retro fit
[00:30] <ikonia> HazRPG: I must have about 500 disk for them
[00:30] <HazRPG> ikonia: amazing! :o
[00:31] <HazRPG> are you a collector?
[00:31] <ikonia> not intentionally
[00:31] <hamitron> :)
[00:32] <HazRPG> :)
[00:32] <hamitron> ffs
[00:33] <hamitron> damn timeouts :/
[00:33] <HazRPG> ikonia: just out of interest, how'd you get so many?
[00:35] <ikonia> HazRPG: long time user, thats the only reason
[00:35] <HazRPG> ikonia: awesome
[00:35] <HazRPG> ikonia: I've never used one until recently (emulators, trackers, etc)
[00:36] <HazRPG> I owned a MZ-721
[00:36] <HazRPG> and then later an atari 2600
[00:37] <ikonia> ah, happy memories
[00:40] <HazRPG> I'm sure I'd be a different person today, had I gotten into the c64 scene
[00:49] <HazRPG> I don't get why the floppy drives are more expensive then the machines themselves, it seems so silly
[00:54]  * hamitron is guessing they break more
[00:54] <hamitron> or maybe because of people wanting them to transfer to other machines
[00:54] <hamitron> then just use with an emulator
[01:07] <shauno> good chance it's just economy of scale.  most people used tapes, so there's less floppy drives just knocking around people's attics
[01:16] <HazRPG> shauno: this is true
[01:16] <HazRPG> I'm guessing people with the floppy drives will have originally been programmers, or at least people trying to learn to programme
[01:21] <HazRPG> oh, and don't forget those that just copied games and gave them to friends/family etc
[01:21] <HazRPG> however I wouldn't be surprised if tapes were still more popular for that sort of thing
[01:23] <HazRPG> shauno: don't know if you read (since it was earlier in the day), but I've scored me 2 c64's from ebay :D
[01:23] <HazRPG> for £40
[01:23] <HazRPG> along with tape drive
[01:23] <HazRPG> controller and 6 games
[01:24] <hamitron> 2?
[01:25] <HazRPG> yup :)
[01:25] <HazRPG> apparently they both worked before they got stored in the attic (and moved house with him a few times in 14 years)
[01:26] <HazRPG> and he said the lights come on, but doesn't have the RF cable anymore to be able to test that it actually works on the TV
[01:26] <HazRPG> and the tape drive seems to still move - so seems like a pure bargain :)
[01:27] <HazRPG> two different versions, one seems like the original batch, and the other seems to look like the c64c
[01:27] <HazRPG> however there was a stage when the c64 and c64c looked similar between transition, so could be luck of the draw which it actually is
[01:31] <hamitron> gl :)
[01:51] <HazRPG> hamitron: thanks :)
[01:51] <HazRPG> I would prefer if they were both the original c64's since the SID in those were far superior to the others
[01:52] <hamitron> it is kind of weird
[01:52] <hamitron> I have spent years holding onto old tech
[01:52] <HazRPG> its the SID 6581
[01:52] <HazRPG> the c64c and the c128 used the same SID chip of 8580
[01:53] <hamitron> then as soon as I consider getting rid of it, you guys start talking retro ;/
[01:53] <hamitron> and now I am getting dragged back into thoughts of using old gear
[01:54] <HazRPG> the reason the original SID was better, was because they rushed to try and get it out as quick as possible (think they had 5 months for a computer show)... and well it had a few things that were sort of disabled or not wired up that you could essentially harness in code
[01:55] <HazRPG> well, wasn't really rushed, the basically had a spec. sheet, and just went on developing them one by one, and added new ones if they and when they could
[01:56] <HazRPG> one such thing that the guy who came up with the SID audio chip, wanted it to have audio input - however it was never finished the the audio in pin is not wired to anything
[01:56] <HazRPG> hamitron: haha, always happens with me too :P
[01:57] <hamitron> you guys talking means I will be still using a K6-2 at my main desk :/
[01:57] <HazRPG> I mean the c64 and the zx were always classics in my mind, but I never owned or experienced them... I'd heard and seen them, but never used one
[01:57] <hamitron> I have a couple of ZX
[01:58] <HazRPG> nice
[01:58] <hamitron> got my ZX128 +2 plugged in
[01:58] <HazRPG> the ZX was another rushed system :P
[01:58] <hamitron> well, it is fun
[01:58] <hamitron> ;)
[01:58] <hamitron> never done much on it
[01:58] <hamitron> but is fun
[01:59] <HazRPG> oh, don't get me wrong - the fact that they were rushed was what made them unique!
[01:59] <hamitron> but I also enjoy using old pentium pc too
[01:59] <hamitron> :)
[01:59] <HazRPG> from nothing to full system in 5 months is pretty ... awesome!
[02:00] <hamitron> to me, the 586 was the best times
[02:00] <hamitron> better games arrived
[02:00] <hamitron> and things today still haven't moved on much
[02:01] <HazRPG> oh the i586?
[02:01] <hamitron> yeh
[02:01] <HazRPG> nice
[02:02] <HazRPG> shame systems like that seem to lose their ways in most peoples minds :(
[02:02] <hamitron> I suppose peoples internet connections, ment they never bothered with online play options
[02:02] <hamitron> so that is different
[02:02] <HazRPG> true
[02:02] <HazRPG> wait, you mean games haven't progressed much?
[02:02] <HazRPG> or just systems in general?
[02:02] <hamitron> yeh
[02:03] <hamitron> both tbh
[02:03] <HazRPG> how so?
[02:03] <hamitron> just look at the average game or OS
[02:03] <hamitron> all these processor cycles and mb of memory
[02:03] <HazRPG> I mean going from blue/black/green displays to full colour with interactive interface etc is just awesome
[02:04] <hamitron> you had 24 bit colour in windows 95 ;/
[02:04] <HazRPG> win 95 hates me :/
[02:05]  * dutchie was too young for win 95
[02:05] <hamitron> :)
[02:05] <HazRPG> and the protection of a 3y.o. was just ridiculous ("Enter password:           " *press cancel* SUCCESS!)
[02:05] <hamitron> in win95?
[02:05] <HazRPG> yeah
[02:06] <hamitron> you could block network access though
[02:06] <HazRPG> pressing cancel on the login screen, just logged you straight in :/
[02:06] <hamitron> no it didn't
[02:06] <hamitron> ;)
[02:06] <hamitron> it did give you some access
[02:06] <HazRPG> did on every win95 system I came across lol
[02:07] <hamitron> I remember setting up logins for win95 on my linux server
[02:07] <HazRPG> I don't think I ever knew the password to our "family" computer... still managed to get IRC and other stuff on it with ease
[02:07] <HazRPG> dutchie: really?
[02:08] <HazRPG> dutchie: Hmm, I thought I was the youngest here.
[02:08] <hamitron> HazRPG: did you only use windows 95 at homes?
[02:08] <HazRPG> hamitron: I was 8 so yeah :P
[02:09] <hamitron> the local security was not good, so yeh
[02:09] <hamitron> :)
[02:09] <dutchie> HazRPG: not 19 until July
[02:09] <dutchie> and issyl0 at least is younger than me
[02:09] <HazRPG> I think we had it at school too, and hitting cancel just bypassed everything :/
[02:09] <HazRPG> if that didn't work... restart try again
[02:09] <hamitron> HazRPG: didn't give you access to other peoples files though
[02:09] <hamitron> or printers
[02:10] <HazRPG> hamitron: did when you changed a few reg files xD
[02:10] <hamitron> well it wasn't setup right then :/
[02:10] <HazRPG> I actually made a floppy with some reg files just for getting rid of the security stuff lol
[02:11] <HazRPG> dutchie: ah, I'm 24 in june
[02:11] <HazRPG> dutchie: I never really see issyl0 online
[02:11] <hamitron> but yeh, local security was not good
[02:11] <dutchie> she is around occasionally :P
[02:11] <HazRPG> hamitron: did it actually have local security :P?
[02:12] <dutchie> but anyway, one counterexample is sufficient
[02:12] <hamitron> just what you bypassed
[02:12] <hamitron> :)
[02:12] <HazRPG> :P
[02:13] <hamitron> but security is not everything
[02:13] <hamitron> I'm looking at new ideas and ways end users interact with stuff
[02:14] <hamitron> we gone from a start menu, to a start menu with a few "sections" and it scrolls
[02:14] <hamitron> 3d games have gone to 3d games that just have better lighting and texture quality
[02:15] <hamitron> buttons are now round, rather than square
[02:16] <hamitron> a backup of accounts software used to be a couple of floppy disks, now the same information takes 200Mb
[02:16] <hamitron> :s
[02:17] <hamitron> but I suppose not many care, so things can get as big as they like, with no thought to efficiency
[02:17] <HazRPG> yeah :/
[02:18] <hamitron> some things are not even as good
[02:18] <hamitron> good example is Grand Prix 3 vs F1 2010
[02:19] <hamitron> there really is nothing better or new, apart from a few fancy scenes
[02:19] <HazRPG> actually we went from file explorer -> start menu -> start menu with more colours -> start menu with scrolls -> start menu with scrolls and search
[02:19] <hamitron> but it is still a start menu!
[02:19] <hamitron> :)
[02:19] <HazRPG> my point was
[02:20] <hamitron> and now I need a cpu 10x the power
[02:20] <HazRPG> the first gui system was just a file explorer
[02:20] <HazRPG> apps were on the desktop
[02:20] <HazRPG> and in folders
[02:20] <HazRPG> but that was all
[02:20]  * HazRPG growls at stupid win 3.1 and its lack of ability to play any of the games I bought for it
[02:20] <hamitron> I don't see 10x more functionality
[02:21] <HazRPG> erm... we have wobble effects on linux \o/
[02:21] <hamitron> exactly my point ;/
[02:22] <HazRPG> easier install process
[02:22] <hamitron> is it?
[02:22] <HazRPG> well from "LOAD "*",8" to "ooo, its there... *clicks*"
[02:23] <hamitron> there was clicks more than 10 years ago
[02:23] <hamitron> :)
[02:23] <HazRPG> well yeah, that was when XP came out :P
[02:24] <hamitron> iirc, the first I remember having it was mandrake 6.1
[02:24] <HazRPG> hamitron: what would you like to see differently?
[02:24] <hamitron> I personally like how things act
[02:25] <hamitron> but I don't like how it crunches through memory doing it the same as it once did
[02:25] <HazRPG> personally going from textual to graphical (which the mind processes in anyway) was a big achievement
[02:25] <HazRPG> they've just been refining it since
[02:25] <HazRPG> hamitron: your using the wrong o/s then ;)
[02:25] <HazRPG> linux kernel is tiny, or can be
[02:25] <hamitron> I'd replace "refining" with "adding to"
[02:26] <hamitron> I don't blame the kernel
[02:26] <HazRPG> also, your using the wrong front-end if you feel that strongly too
[02:26] <HazRPG> flux, etc come to mind
[02:26] <hamitron> I am? :|
[02:26] <hamitron> I am using LXDE
[02:27] <HazRPG> that was going to be my next suggestion :P
[02:27] <hamitron> but it isn't what I use
[02:27] <HazRPG> ...well then what's the issue :P?
[02:27] <hamitron> it is how the direction of computing is going
[02:27] <HazRPG> ah, yeah I know
[02:27] <hamitron> I couldn't run this on a system with 32mb ram ...
[02:29] <HazRPG> blame the physicist that that computers would double every two years - mr moore himself
[02:29] <HazRPG> that said*
[02:29] <hamitron> him and everyone who drives it that way :)
[02:30] <hamitron> I mean, I don't mind systems having more resources...
[02:30] <hamitron> but it would be nice to see them resources put to some good use
[02:30] <HazRPG> its science, if there's a law - you must abide by it unless you can prove wrongly - general consensus
[02:31] <HazRPG> hamitron: think of it this way
[02:31] <HazRPG> |000000011|
[02:31] <HazRPG> that represents a system along with its memory
[02:32] <HazRPG> the 11 is basically how much of it is used for the operation of the rest of the sytem
[02:33] <HazRPG> now if you double the other figures (hardware), you must double the operating system too
[02:33] <hamitron> you don't have to ;)
[02:33] <shauno> you don't have to.  but generally the whole point of having more resources is to be able to do more with them
[02:33] <HazRPG> someone was at the door sorry
[02:34] <HazRPG> hmm, I have to disagree
[02:34] <dutchie> at 2:30 am?
[02:34] <hamitron> if I double my memory, I expect to run nearly twice as many firefox tabs... not for each tab to use more memory each
[02:34] <HazRPG> memory was probably a bad example
[02:34] <HazRPG> take storage for example
[02:34] <hamitron> same with cpu cycles
[02:35] <hamitron> storage even more so :) a 32 bit float needs to only take 32 bits
[02:36] <hamitron> I dunno how new accounts software converts say 2mb to 200mb
[02:36] <HazRPG> the way it stores it data onto a given medium, you need to define how to access the whole device (all the write sectors in the case of a HDD), you then also need a way of being able to scan through that medium, so some form of indexing is needed
[02:36] <hamitron> that does not double the use of that
[02:37] <hamitron> what is happening, the average system doubles in power, so the software coders don't worry if the end product uses double
[02:38] <HazRPG> shauno: yeah I understand that, but when you have more resources - you also need to waste/use more to be able to address them
[02:38] <hamitron> so you end up with no extra resources to run more
[02:38] <HazRPG> which ali1234 was about, I always like his input
[02:38] <HazRPG> altho its I do really like shauno and hamitron's too though :)
[02:38] <hamitron> IPv6 is a good example
[02:39] <hamitron> yes it uses more space, but it increases the number of IP by many more times
[02:39] <HazRPG> hamitron: incorrect, you still have more to work with for your actual software, however you've got to remember that the software will still get bigger because it has more address it needs to be able to manage
[02:39] <hamitron> it isn't incorrect :|
[02:40] <hamitron> you are exagerating the overhead of addressing
[02:40] <HazRPG> oh no, I wasn't saying incorrect to IP's
[02:40] <HazRPG> IPv6*
[02:40] <hamitron> it is the same for hardware addressing...
[02:41] <hamitron> for every extra bit assigned to addressing, you can double the number of addressed locations
[02:42] <HazRPG> wait, wasn't that what I tried to say with my diagram?
[02:43] <hamitron> you were saying there is nothing gained from more memory or storage
[02:43] <HazRPG> I was trying to say, if a system requires 1/3 of it (hypothetically) for addressing, if you double the number you have available, you still need to use 1/3 of it for addressing them
[02:43] <hamitron> but the extra gained is in fact used by bloated applications imo
[02:44] <hamitron> that is wrong
[02:44] <hamitron> but even if it is right
[02:44] <hamitron> no need for firefox to grow and use more of 2/3 left
[02:45] <HazRPG> the issues with software, is usually the try to add more features - thinking ah we've got plenty of rooom - that no one cares to optimize their code any more
[02:45] <hamitron> yeh
[02:45] <hamitron> and the OS comes under that too
[02:46] <HazRPG> of course, however the O/S is slightly different if you think of it as a whole
[02:46] <HazRPG> parts of it is basically for WYSIWYG
[02:46] <HazRPG> the other parts are for communications
[02:46] <shauno> see, I don't agree at all
[02:46] <HazRPG> its usually the gui stuff that tends to get bloated out
[02:46] <HazRPG> shauno: do shame :)
[02:47] <shauno> 10 years ago I had a really awful computer.  well behind the times.  an amd 486dx4+B, at a stonking 120MHz
[02:47] <shauno> now, when itunes uses 5% of the cpu, people can't figure out why it's "so bloated"
[02:48] <shauno> that 486 couldn't play an mp3.  and 120MHz is *more* than 5% of 2.2GHz
[02:49] <shauno> it's all very well saying "I did the same thing 10 years ago in a fraction of the hardware"
[02:49] <shauno> we didn't do the same things 10 years ago.  at all.
[02:49] <hamitron> I agree new functions need more resources
[02:50] <hamitron> and that is why new games use more, to do more
[02:51] <hamitron> but I could view webpages with a comp with only 16mb ram
[02:51] <hamitron> I could word process
[02:52] <shauno> I actually had IE4 on windows 3.1 fairly recently for something.  yes it existed.  no it wasn't the same at all :)
[02:52] <hamitron> it displayed a webpage with information on
[02:52] <hamitron> ;/
[02:52] <HazRPG> web page != web document
[02:53] <hamitron> I do blame the content providers parts
[02:53] <hamitron> partly*
[02:53]  * hamitron starts clean firefox up
[02:53] <hamitron> 46mb ram :/
[02:53] <HazRPG> hamitron: back when you were viewing a web document, it only had text and needed to parse that on-screen
[02:54] <HazRPG> or possibly images
[02:54] <HazRPG> etc
[02:54] <HazRPG> however now
[02:54] <hamitron> it did images ;/
[02:54] <hamitron> now you have javascript, flash and loads of crap
[02:54] <hamitron> that really doesn't add to the quality of information available
[02:54] <HazRPG> we have flash, javascript, audio, video, ... and many other plugins left right and centre
[02:56] <hamitron> I had audio and video on my p120 :/
[02:56] <hamitron> not everything was integrated though as plugins
[02:56] <HazRPG> ah see exactly, your browser now does more than your browser did back then
[02:56] <hamitron> a web browser was a web browser, a media player was for playing media
[02:57] <hamitron> that is my point too, pointless :D
[02:57] <HazRPG> bring back these days: http://media.rhizome.org/blog/3669/browser-editor.png ?
[02:58] <HazRPG> I have a feeling that's at native resolution too
[02:58] <hamitron> that is in 16 colours ;/
[02:58] <hamitron> or maybe 256
[02:59] <shauno> and 3/4 of them are being used for icons
[02:59] <hamitron> I'm not saying we have to give up all new features
[03:00] <hamitron> just cut back on some of the bloat and requirements
[03:01] <hamitron> things like buttons lighting up when the cursor goes over them
[03:01] <hamitron> ;)
[03:01] <hamitron> round memory hogging graphics for the buttons
[03:02] <hamitron> it would free memory up, to be used for things like better quality pics and stuff
[03:05] <HazRPG> hamitron: round buttons don't take any more memory than square
[03:05] <HazRPG> well not much anyways
[03:06] <HazRPG> also, use chrome/chromium ;)
[03:06] <HazRPG> or disable plugins :o!
[03:07] <HazRPG> well at least the ones you don't use
[03:08] <hamitron> chrome uses too much memory
[03:08] <hamitron> each tab uses 40mb?
[03:09] <HazRPG> hamitron: ever sat and counted what it needs to store in memory?
[03:10] <HazRPG> each picture and text block
[03:10] <HazRPG> in rendered form
[03:11] <shauno> eh, chrome does process separation; so each tab contains not just the content, but the footprint of the renderer itself, the javascript engine, plugin containers, etc
[03:11] <hamitron> good for security
[03:11] <hamitron> so i do not mind it doing so
[03:11] <hamitron> that is part of the design
[03:12] <HazRPG> shauno: plugins are self contained in their own process, however the footprint of its usage I understand
[03:12] <hamitron> but I bet firefox 1.0 runs faster than 3.6
[03:12] <hamitron> and both display text and pictures fine
[03:12] <HazRPG> hamitron: you'd be surprised
[03:13] <shauno> it'll vary by content.  I'd expect 1.0 to be faster on straight pages, but slower on stuff that uses js to any real degree
[03:14] <hamitron> js is the devil of modern webpages
[03:14] <hamitron> as is all scripting and flashy stuff
[03:14] <hamitron> ;)
[03:14] <HazRPG> anything with the word java is
[03:14] <shauno> so you'd give up gmail to go back to 90's-style yahoo?
[03:14] <hamitron> yes
[03:14] <hamitron> haha
[03:14] <shauno> nutter
[03:14] <HazRPG> nope
[03:15] <hamitron> gmail does actually have a basic option...
[03:15] <HazRPG> hamitron: not as basic as you'd think though
[03:15] <shauno> yeah.  stops j/k keys from working tho, so it's not worth it :)
[03:15] <hamitron> shauno: freedom of choice!
[03:15] <hamitron> ;)
[03:16] <HazRPG> hamitron: well you know the linux moto ;)
[03:16] <HazRPG> "don't like it, write your own"
[03:16] <HazRPG> or rather foss I should say
[03:16] <shauno> "if you don't like it, tough **** because canonical don't want to hear it"
[03:16] <shauno> :p
[03:16] <hamitron> haha shauno
[03:16] <HazRPG> shauno: haha ;p
[03:17] <hamitron> I will be giving ubuntu one last try, cut down
[03:17] <hamitron> see where that takes me
[03:17] <shauno> you're going to find the same issues pretty much everywhere
[03:18] <shauno> I mean, the difference between win95 and winxp wasn't just programmers getting lazy
[03:18] <HazRPG> ... hmm, DSL?
[03:18] <hamitron> there is a lts release of puppy, but that has loads installed and looks like a kids machine
[03:18] <hamitron> personally I prefer ubuntu 8.04
[03:19] <shauno> I think you'd do well to try linuxfromscratch some time
[03:19] <hamitron> I have
[03:19] <hamitron> took me ages damn it
[03:19] <hamitron> haha
[03:19] <shauno> have fun trying to juggle bloat vs features yourself
[03:19] <HazRPG> or at least oemtools
[03:19] <Azelphur> been testing things, it looks like my freezes are indeed multi X screen related. I don't get freezes if I use either card on it's own
[03:20] <Azelphur> so as I said about 3 years ago, it's official, it looks like Linux has gone into the realms where more than 2 displays is just completely unusable :(
[03:20] <hamitron> I would run my own compiled system, but that is hard work to maintain
[03:20] <HazRPG> Azelphur: have you tried multiple X using the same card for output?
[03:20] <Azelphur> HazRPG, nope
[03:20] <Azelphur> but that'd be kinda pointless :P
[03:20] <shauno> I used to do that :)
[03:20] <hamitron> can you not get it working with a custom xorg.conf?
[03:21] <Azelphur> it does "work"
[03:21] <hamitron> that bugs me too, no xorg.conf by default
[03:21] <Azelphur> it just freezes within a matter of minutes now
[03:21] <hamitron> :/
[03:21] <hamitron> does it work in windows?
[03:21] <Azelphur> and I get artifacts and stuff
[03:21] <shauno> no xorg.conf makes perfect sense to me
[03:22] <Azelphur> does multi X work in windows? probably not :P
[03:22] <hamitron> no xorg.conf makes sense shauno :) but the old fashioned ways of creating the config should still be included
[03:23] <shauno> last I looked they were
[03:23] <HazRPG> man, I should learn to stop running myself down like this
[03:23]  * HazRPG 's uptime: 1d:3hrs
[03:23] <hamitron> I gotta get up in 4 hours :/
[03:24] <shauno> I gotta get up in 90 minutes   lol
[03:24] <hamitron> hehe
[03:24] <shauno> ah, looks like xorg took XF86Config out back and shot it.  'bout time.
[03:24] <hamitron> shauno: I thought the X config stuff wasn't maintained now
[03:24] <Azelphur> might try xinerama for a bit see how I get on with that
[03:24] <Azelphur> no compiz though :(
[03:25] <HazRPG> Azelphur: hmm, not a big fan of xinerama at all
[03:25] <HazRPG> not cos of the lack of compiz... just what it does to applications in "fullscreen"
[03:25] <Azelphur> yea
[03:25] <Azelphur> I get that anyway without xinerama :D
[03:25] <hamitron> I liked X.org 6.x best
[03:25] <hamitron> :)
[03:26] <shauno> xinerama's the way to stay sane.  TwinView is broken :)
[03:26] <HazRPG> Azelphur: same
[03:26] <Azelphur> quad screen is epic bugged but nobody will fix things :(
[03:26] <Azelphur> well, most won't rather
[03:26] <Azelphur> most developers just say yea nobody has more than 2 displays I'm not fixing that goodbye :P
[03:26] <HazRPG> ali1234 made a hack for firefox/chrome to get flash to stop being stupid and use proper linux calls for fullscreen
[03:26] <hamitron> hehe
[03:26] <Azelphur> (gnome-do and gnome-panel devs are really bad for this)
[03:27] <hamitron> it is because they are all communist, and hate people with too much money ;)
[03:27] <HazRPG> shauno: I use twinview without problems
[03:27] <shauno> I could never run a separate X instance on tv-out with twinview
[03:28] <shauno> drove me nuts
[03:28] <hamitron> nvidia need to get their ass into gear
[03:28] <Azelphur> I think it's more of an X limitation too
[03:28] <shauno> I dont' blame nv so much
[03:28] <hamitron> and X.org need to stop moving the target so fast :/
[03:28] <Azelphur> I don't know any cards that can do quad
[03:28] <shauno> frankly, X needs to die
[03:29] <hamitron> so many revisions and broken-ness
[03:29] <hamitron> so yeh
[03:29] <hamitron> :)
[03:29] <HazRPG> personally I think the linux kernel needs to be recoded - but that's just me
[03:29] <hamitron> !!!!!!!
[03:29] <HazRPG> not that I hate how its done now
[03:30]  * hamitron points HazRPG to BSD
[03:30] <hamitron> see how much "better" it is ;)
[03:30] <hamitron> it does have its place I suppose
[03:30] <HazRPG> BSD is still monolithic though
[03:30] <HazRPG> microkernel is where it should be at
[03:31] <shauno> pft.  that ship's sailed.
[03:31] <HazRPG> shauno: ?
[03:31] <shauno> even osx just puts everything in one mach server.
[03:32] <shauno> the only people who still think microkernel's a good idea, are hurd.  and look where that's got them.
[03:32] <hamitron> minix is getting worse too
[03:33] <hamitron> dev is moving fast I suppose
[03:33] <hamitron> guess that is why I don't like it
[03:33] <hamitron> ;)
[03:34]  * hamitron grunts
[03:38] <shauno> seriously, that's fun for academics to play with / argue over.  I can't think of anyone that's actually ship it outside of a lab tho.
[03:38] <hamitron> I personally find nothing wrong with the linux kernel, so never moved
[03:39] <hamitron> it was only this last year I accepted the 2.6 kernel though :)
[03:43] <hamitron> anyways
[03:43] <hamitron> nn you lot o/
[03:44] <hamitron> post midnight moan starts again in just over 20 hours
[03:44] <shauno> heh, night
[03:50] <shauno> not sure how I ended up with my head stuck in TeX again.  this just isn't kosher.
[03:52] <shauno> not entirely sure what this means either
[03:52] <shauno> ! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000].
[03:52] <lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[03:53] <shauno> If you really absolutely need more capacity, you can ask a wizard to enlarge me.
[03:53]  * shauno scratches head
[05:01] <MartijnVdS> http://d3uwin5q170wpc.cloudfront.net/photo/86969_460s_v1.jpg
[05:03] <shauno> morning MartijnVdS :)
[05:05] <shauno> discovered fairly recently that james earl jones was mufasa in The Lion King.  Making Luke, Simba's step-brother.
[05:05] <shauno> that's one messed up family tree.
[05:08] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[05:09] <MartijnVdS> I was watching Men in Black II a few weeks ago, and I recognised someone.. he was the landlord in The Big Lebowski
[05:10] <MartijnVdS> then I was watching a DS9 episode yesterday... and he was an alien
[05:10] <MartijnVdS> It's weird, not knowing an actor and then seeing him three times in a row
[05:16] <shauno> reminds me of when I figured out that Agent Smith was the lead dragqueen in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert
[05:18] <shauno> http://images.smh.com.au/ftsmh/ffximage/2009/05/01/priscilla_wideweb__470x299,0.jpg
[05:18] <shauno> The Matrix will never be the same again :p
[05:18] <MartijnVdS> hahaha
[05:18] <MartijnVdS> also, Elrond
[05:19] <shauno> yeah
[05:20] <shauno> elf isn't quite so far a leap tho
[05:37] <MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/ScWDB.jpg
[06:24] <Myrtti> priscilla ruined la confidential, memento, star wars for me in addition to matrix and lotr
[07:12] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:17] <danfish> good morning, and what a bright sunny day in the SE for a change :)
[07:40] <knightdroid> ls
[07:52] <knightdroid> morning
[07:56] <shauno> howdy
[07:56] <nigelb> good morning UK
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings :-)
[08:29] <HazRPG> wow, waking up in front of the computer isn't my idea of cool
[08:29] <HazRPG> especially to voices on mumble lol
[08:31] <HazRPG> ...hi :)
[08:49] <diplo> morning
[08:51] <Myrtti> booyah
[08:53] <knightdroid> morning
[08:53] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:55] <BigRedS> Goooood morning!
[08:55] <Synth_sam> morning
[09:00] <DJones> Morning all
[09:15] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:17] <scoundrel50> hi, I installed pastebinit lsat night, amazing little tool from what I would see, but I have been trying to find out if there were any directions on how to use it. i tried man pastebinit, but I couldnt see much on there. I went to the owners website, but could only swee updates and things on that. Thanks.
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> omg @ new Ubuntu name
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> "Oneiric Ocelot"
[09:19] <DJones> scoundrel50: Have you looked at this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pastebinit That might be what you're looking for
[09:19] <Baikonur> they've let someone loose with dictionary and some mind-altering substances again
[09:19] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> Baikonur: Mark is just trying to out-smart the prediction sites
[09:20] <Baikonur> oh
[09:20] <Baikonur> that's probably it
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> Baikonur: (I guess)
[09:21] <Baikonur> i said oh, and then actually read what you said :)
[09:21] <cbx33> mornin all
[09:22] <Myrtti> anyone in the IT news business? http://www.digia.com/C2256FEF0043E9C1/0/405002251
[09:23] <Baikonur> i'm in a business of reading IT news
[09:23] <lostscot> join #ubuntu-bugs
[09:24] <DJones> scoundrel50: I've just found the online manpage for pastebinit, but doesn't seem to add anything to the original link I posted http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/en/man1/pastebinit.1.html
[09:24] <soneill> I misread that as /join #ubuntu-hugs
[09:26] <mungojerry> Myrtti: so digia will handle promotion and commercial licensing of qt, but nokia retains the devs?
[09:26] <Myrtti> mungojerry: apparently yes, that's how it's been interpreted by the Finnish news
[09:26] <mungojerry> until somebody buys the devs..i wonder who will do that
[09:27] <scoundrel50> DJones: that was what I saw on man, but I dont understand it. How do I get from that, to this command I was given last night.........sed -n '43200,43400p' /var/lib/dpkg/status|pastebinit this command doesnt even seem to be on the man page........
[09:28] <scoundrel50> I understand that command I just posted, its the line numbers, and where is it, but what is sed -n
[09:29] <scoundrel50> and how would you go about adding a paragraph from a page you were looking at on a website
[09:29] <cbx33> Myrtti: could do with some latex love if you have a second
[09:29] <cbx33> oh man
[09:29] <cbx33> that sounds wrong
[09:30] <Myrtti> cbx33: sure, I'm high on sugar anyway
[09:30] <Myrtti> that sounds equally wrong
[09:30] <cbx33> gimme a sec
[09:30] <Myrtti> oh geez, I need a full nights sleep...
[09:32] <AlanBell> Oneiric Ocelot!
[09:32] <DJones> scoundrel50: I've never used sed myself, but as I understand it, it effectivly searches a file for specific text and gives you various options to replace/report on it, so that line searches ofr the lines between 4320 to 43400 in the status file & than pipes the output into pastebinit. Not knowing the usage of sed, I wouldn't like to say much more, but I'm sure somebody else will be able to help in time
[09:32] <czajkowski> indeeed
[09:32] <czajkowski> Myrtti: TEA!!
[09:33] <Myrtti> czajkowski: I'm beyond the point where the situation can be fixed with tea
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cabinet Office Survey on Open Standards: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/uk-government-open-standards-survey
[09:33] <DJones> AlanBell: Can you answer scoundrel50's query about the sed | pastebinit question he had a few minutes ago, just explaining a bit more on what you went through yesterday
[09:33] <scoundrel50> Thank you. I'll keep my eyes open. :)
[09:34] <AlanBell> scoundrel50: ok, so I googled for "display a portion of a file linux"
[09:34] <screen-x> DJones: you are right, -n means don't print by default. x,y is range of line numbers and p is print.
[09:35] <AlanBell> which took me here http://www.unix.com/unix-dummies-questions-answers/21631-display-portion-lines-file.html
[09:35] <AlanBell> where I learned that sed -n '20,40p' would display lines 20 to 40
[09:36] <DJones> screen-x: Thats good, a logical (debatable from my point of view) process worked out then
[09:36] <AlanBell> I wanted to display lines 43200 to 43400 which is 200 lines of the file, with the bit referenced in your warning message in the middle of it
[09:36] <AlanBell> | is a pipe, it sends the output of one command into the input of the next
[09:37] <hoover> mornin all
[09:37] <screen-x> morning hoover :)
[09:38] <scoundrel50> AlanBell: ah, I see, I will have a look at the url myself now. That makes more sense. Thank you.
[09:38] <AlanBell> so you can do echo "hi this is my text"|pastebinit for example, the output of echo "hi this is my text" is 'hi this is my text' which will be passed into pastebinit, which puts it on a pastebin and returns the URL
[09:38] <gord> does anyone know a gtk app that has an expander in it? one of those little arrows that you click and get a bunch more content unveiled
[09:38] <AlanBell> gord: openERP client
[09:39] <mungojerry> gord: gconf-editor has expanders, with + signs though
[09:39] <czajkowski> how are we all doing this morning
[09:39] <screen-x> fine thanks czajkowski, how are you?
[09:39] <czajkowski> fantastic :)
[09:40] <gord> AlanBell, something i might have installed is preferable ;)
[09:40] <screen-x> :D
[09:40] <mungojerry> sun is shining in the UK for the first time in 6 months i think
[09:40] <DJones> Morning czajkowski Welcome back to the UK, did you have a good holiday
[09:40] <screen-x> thats a good state for a monday morning :)
[09:40] <gord> mungojerry, hrm not ones in a treeview like that, in regular content
[09:40] <screen-x> mungojerry: yay! (puts SAD lamp away)
[09:41] <czajkowski> DJones: I did indeed
[09:41] <scoundrel50> AlanBell: you entered that command from the terminal to find something in a folder, but what if you were looking for something on the internet, can it be used for doing that?
[09:43] <AlanBell> scoundrel50: not sure what you mean
[09:43] <AlanBell> gord: do you want a screenshot or something?
[09:44] <gord> AlanBell, found some in ccsm :) needed to check the behaviour in gtk for keynav
[09:44] <AlanBell> yay
[09:44] <screen-x> scoundrel50: sed can only files through a file system. But you browse the web in a terminal with links or lynx.
[09:45] <cbx33> Myrtti: pinged you
[09:45] <cbx33> :)
[09:45] <czajkowski> DISLIKE KDE!
[09:45] <scoundrel50> screen-x: ah, what is that, have never done that before....
[09:47] <scoundrel50> AlanBell: I wondered about trying to add something from a web page, to pastebinit, without having to copy and paste
[09:48]  * AlanBell struggles to see the point of that!
[09:48] <kazade> so, Oneiric Ocelot ...
[09:48] <AlanBell> yo dawg, I heard you liked web pages so I put a web page on your web page so you can browse while you browse
[09:49] <mungojerry> kazade: i was half right :P
[09:49] <kazade> Mark's getting more and more obscure with each release!
[09:49] <mungojerry> couldn't get ovulating ocelot out of my mind
[09:49] <DJones> mungojerry: Too much information
[09:49] <screen-x> scoundrel50: theres no advantage to browsing in terminal, except if you find yourself without X for some reason.
[09:49] <JamesTait> Good morning, all!
[09:50] <screen-x> morning JT :)
[09:50] <mungojerry> it's gonna be hard for poor spellers ..reminds me of this old joke:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8KfQ6uTP0
[09:51] <scoundrel50> Sorry not very good at explaining.....was trying to find out, how I would go about using pastebinit for something I had seen on the internet, instead of having to copy and paste into something like pastebin.ubuntu
[09:52] <AlanBell> scoundrel50: my point is that if it is on a web page you don't have to put it on a pastebin, just share the URL of the page
[09:53] <scoundrel50> oh right, I see what you mean,......duh......
[09:53] <scoundrel50> sorry about that
[09:54] <AlanBell> ocelot -> http://images.sciencedaily.com/2007/11/071129094756-large.jpg
[09:54] <MartijnVdS> South American cat
[09:55] <kazade> so, what do you guys think is the best release name so far?
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> Lucid
[09:55] <DJones> AlanBell: That looks nice and cute
[09:55] <mungojerry> i think the best creature is the narwhal
[09:55] <knightdroid> naughty night
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: Redditor? :)
[09:55] <kazade> I think Feisty Fawn or Hardy Heron - I quite liked "Hardy" because I thought it was a good name for a LTS
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> Dapper Drake was nice as well
[09:55] <AlanBell> the desktop wallpaper on Hardy was great
[09:55] <kazade> indeed
[09:56] <mungojerry> some narwhal fans got carried away: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mroth/galleries/72157623599870267/
[09:56] <kazade> not a huge fan of "Oneiric"
[09:57]  * DJones waits for the 12:04 name now, "Perfect Penguin" although other distro's would dispute that
[09:58] <screen-x> or Petulent Panda
[09:59] <Baikonur> don't care for intrepid, jaunty, maveric, natty
[10:00] <screen-x> The scroll wheel on my mouse at work, can be pushed sideways for horizontal scrolling, this is reasonably useful until I use a mouse with a normal scroll wheel and almost break it off when trying to sroll horizontally.
[10:01] <gord> http://www.digia.com/C2256FEF0043E9C1/0/405002251 huh, digia buying Qt
[10:01] <Baikonur> i really like the wallpaper on intrepid, though
[10:02] <Baikonur> funnily enough, that link has been here already, but i haven't seen it in any other channels
[10:05] <Myrtti> http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/07/nokia-and-digia-working-together/
[10:14] <mungojerry> for anyone following the google malware story, does anyone know if the malicious apps presented a list of privileges via the permissions page?
[10:14] <ali1234> dunno but i could probably find out
[10:14] <mungojerry> if not , then checking the permissions list is pointless if it's a dodgy app
[10:15] <mungojerry> rather peeved that google have only decided to act after there's been an issue, despite what users have been concerned about since day 1
[10:16] <ali1234> not many users
[10:16] <ali1234> at least not in this country
[10:16] <mungojerry> hey ali1234 did i see you mention the other day that you studeied at manchester uni
[10:16] <ali1234> yeah
[10:16] <mungojerry> me too :P
[10:16] <mungojerry> 93-96
[10:16] <ali1234> 98-01
[10:16] <mungojerry> maths & comp sci
[10:17] <mungojerry> CS?
[10:17] <ali1234> yeah
[10:17] <mungojerry> did they have solaris workstations, or linux by then?
[10:17] <ali1234> they had both an NT too
[10:17] <mungojerry> ugh, i never touched a windows box until i was 21
[10:17] <ali1234> the B&W sun terminals were hardly used by anyone though
[10:18] <mungojerry> yeah, they had rooms full at the time. the interenet had only just started too
[10:18] <mungojerry> cool days
[10:19] <mungojerry> although i managed to get a 1st class degree without knowing much about solaris or IP addresses at the time
[10:19] <mungojerry> most of my course buddies got lower class degrees but knew how to program well and a whole lot more...guess i concentrated on exams and social instead :P
[10:20] <mungojerry> good old days :)
[10:22] <mungojerry> ali1234: did you end up with an IT job?
[10:25] <ali1234> no
[10:26] <ali1234> i ended up unemployed for 2 years, *then* i got an IT job
[10:26] <ali1234> that was so bad I quit and became self-employed
[10:26] <mungojerry> there was a post y2k glut of so-called IT staff that muddied the waters at around that time. i don't know of a time when it's ever been good to get work
[10:29] <diplo> Anyone recommend any good Python tutorials, started writing a backup script to use ssh/rsync and mysql dump to back up our web hosts but was using bash and I thought why not use this as a time to start teaching myself python
[10:29] <MooDoo> diplo: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide ??
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Snake Wrangling for kids
[10:30] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ALOHA!!
[10:30] <diplo> Ta fanx, will go looksy now
[10:30] <loftus> diplo, http://duplicity.nongnu.org/
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yo czajkowski
[10:31] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: hows you :)
[10:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Great thanks. A year older but still the same big kid inside :-D
[10:31] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy candle day today then?
[10:31] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy Birthday?
[10:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nah - Saturday.
[10:32] <diplo> yeah seen that before loftus, keep meaning to tinker but not going to help my pthon skills i suppose, might take anothe rlook anyhoo
[10:32] <diplo> thanks
[10:32] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: well happy birthday for saturday....21 again?
[10:32] <MooDoo> ;)
[10:32] <screen-x> diplo: also rsnapshot is worth considering..
[10:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone fancy a small HP Microserver - Hp doing £100 cashback so it will cost £121 inc. VAT
[10:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/hp-proliant-n36l-1p-1gbu-int-sata-cold-plug-sata-2-xnto63372442170bd.html
[10:33] <loftus> diplo, Written in python!
[10:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/proliantmicroserver/index.html?jumpid=ex_r135_uk/en/smb/tsg/go_proliantmicroserver
[10:34] <AlanBell> popey: did you get one of those HP boxes?
[10:34] <popey> morning
[10:34] <popey> no, i got 4
[10:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[10:34] <MooDoo> morning popey
[10:34] <AlanBell> how many drive bays do they have?
[10:34] <Guest64262> Anyone know where to find ufw firewall on Natty / Unity ?
[10:35] <popey> four connected to a back plane, and one optical bay
[10:36]  * mungojerry wishes he had spare funds in his fun budget
[10:36] <MooDoo> mungojerry: me too, i want a new camera
[10:37]  * mungojerry wants a touch screen on his eee, and one of those cheap HP servers ^^^
[10:37] <czajkowski> Tomorrow is pancake tuesday!!!!
[10:37] <mungojerry> oooh
[10:37] <ali1234> £120 for a 1.3Ghz athlon II and 250GB HD is not exactly cheap
[10:37] <czajkowski> don't forget the lemon!!
[10:38] <MooDoo> czajkowski: woohoo maple syrup
[10:38] <ali1234> it's about what it is actually worth
[10:38] <MooDoo> ali1234: better than a smack in the mush :)
[10:38] <mungojerry> currently i have a linksys nslu2 doing my backups
[10:38] <AlanBell> I see it as a rather flexible NAS box
[10:38] <MooDoo> mungojerry: i'm backing up to a windows server, then a netgear nas duo
[10:41] <mungojerry> i had to crush a resistor with a pair of tweezers on my nslu2 to get the true cpu performance :P
[10:41] <popey> AlanBell: i have moved the 160GB disk that came with mine to the cdrom bay, and added two 2TB disks
[10:41] <popey> if I need more space I will add two more
[10:42] <popey> it also has an internal USB port so you could put the OS on that, and add another 2TB in the optical bay
[10:42] <popey> so you could end up with 5x2TB in it
[10:42] <mungojerry> popey:  would the PSU handle that?
[10:43] <mungojerry> look slike it's only 200W
[10:43] <AlanBell> I want to introduce a customer to the joys of an on-site rdiff-backup of everything
[10:43] <ali1234> is it quiet?
[10:44] <Daviey> AlanBell, What benefits do you see of rdiff-backup over rsnapshot?  Or is it just familiarity?
[10:46] <mungojerry> ..or rsync with hard links
[10:47] <Daviey> well that sounds like reinventing rsnapshot if you want to keep historic backups.
[10:48] <mungojerry> Daviey: yeah, thats what we did :P
[10:48] <Daviey> mungojerry, why?!
[10:49] <mungojerry> Daviey: it was pre-existing backup solution already in place that worked
[10:49] <Daviey> mungojerry, ah
[10:49] <mungojerry> although i needed to upgrade rsync to a newer version
[10:50] <mungojerry> because traversing enormous directories was RAM intensive ( over 2gb) and killed the machine. most recent rsync version fixes this
[10:50] <ali1234> how recent is most recent?
[10:50] <mungojerry> when you know things like that you decide not to change your online backups cos your ones already work
[10:51] <ali1234> because i need to rsync some enormous directories...
[10:51]  * mungojerry checks...
[10:51] <ali1234> i have rsync  version 2.6.9  protocol version 29
[10:52] <mungojerry> 3.0.7 i think...just checking
[10:52] <popey> ali1234: i dont know, its in a cupboard
[10:52] <ali1234> popey: you turned it on with a really long stick too?
[10:52] <popey> que?
[10:53] <ali1234> popey ------------------------------------------------------------> power button
[10:53] <popey> ahhh
[10:53] <popey> no, it's reachable :)
[10:53] <popey> i use rsnapshot on it to backup lots of remote boxen
[10:53] <popey> works really nicely
[10:53] <ali1234> you must have some idea how noisy it is
[10:53] <popey> no, no clue
[10:54] <popey> honestly
[10:54] <mungojerry> ali1234:
[10:54] <mungojerry> Rsync versions before 3.0.0 always build the entire list of files to be transferred at the beginning and hold it in memory for the entire run.
[10:54] <popey> well, relatively speaking, not as noisy as a drobo
[10:54] <mungojerry> ali1234: http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/FAQ.html#4
[10:54] <popey> which used to be where it's sat now
[10:54] <ali1234> yeah, i have noticed rsync doing this, it takes almost as long to build the file list as to transfer the files
[10:54] <Daviey> rsync has always been abusive to the server, and i understood this was still the case.
[10:54] <mungojerry> ours was killing the server, but now is fixed
[10:55] <mungojerry> after upgrade on both sides
[10:55]  * BigRedS pats ionice
[10:55] <mungojerry> it was the RAM bug ^^
[10:55] <mungojerry> our zimbra server has millions of files
[10:55] <ali1234> for some reason ionice has no effect on my machine
[10:55]  * mungojerry wonders about the best filesystem for millions of small files
[10:56] <BigRedS> Ah, oh. I didn't see what was being discussed, but ionice does wonders for rsyncy things generally
[10:56] <BigRedS> mungojerry: zfs or xfs IIRC
[10:56] <ali1234> i think there's something wrong with my IDE drivers perhaps. is 1.3 seconds latency on page fault reasonable?
[10:56] <BigRedS> in that one of those is particularly good for them, but I can't remember which
[10:56] <mungojerry> BigRedS: i was thinking xfs too, i need to check it out
[10:56] <BigRedS> xfs is a big bag of awesome generally
[10:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> xfs is good for very large files.
[10:57] <mungojerry> ext is taking days to delete files
[10:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I use it on our home server.
[10:57] <Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, When xfs corrupts, it's a world of pain.
[10:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's been good so far.
[10:58] <BigRedS> But it *is* very easy to back up..
[10:58] <BigRedS> :)
[10:58] <jpds> photorec time.
[10:58] <ali1234> corrupted btrfs is worse
[10:58] <Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, have you tried shrinking an xfs partition :)
[10:58] <Baikonur> barfs
[10:59] <popey> AlanBell: YHM re: Release Party
[10:59] <Daviey> jpds, Yes... i have a 1TB harddrive on the shelf that is par tof a RAID1 corrupted xfs array, and another drive which is halfway through photorec'ing :)
[10:59] <Daviey> jpds, not touched it in a few months tho... :/
[10:59] <ali1234> someone at meego decided btrfs would be a good idea for mobile battery powered devices
[11:00] <ali1234> unfortunately it tends to corrupt if the battery runs out, and there's no fsck that can fix errors
[11:01] <popey> hahah
[11:01] <Myrtti> dear universe, please stop kicking me in the head, plzkthxbai br Miia
[11:05] <mungojerry> engadget picked up the qt story http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/07/nokia-sells-qt-licensing-and-services-business-to-digia/
[11:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dave Morris] CLI onliners: Changing my email address in multiple files - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/cli-onliners-changing-my-email-address-in-multiple-files/
[11:13] <X3N> Anyone know how to change the default web browser of thunderbird?
[11:14] <X3N> I've tried prefered applications and setting x-www-browser
[11:15] <BigRedS> I know there's three places, but I can't remember the third#
[11:15] <BigRedS> ah, is it sensible-browser ?
[11:16] <BigRedS> do    file `which sensible-browser`    and see where that points
[11:16] <X3N> ah that looks like, thanks
[11:17] <BigRedS> hm, mine's a shell script. But, still, poke around that and it might be why it's picking whatever it is
[11:19] <X3N> look like it's picking gnome-www-browser, even though my "prefered application" for browser is set to firefox
[11:21]  * X3N fixes 
[11:24] <BigRedS> yeah, I hate changing default apps now, there's so many places and ways you need to do it...
[11:30] <davmor2> morning all
[11:31]  * davmor2 fires bits of paper from his elastic band catapult in czajkowski general direction
[11:31]  * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
[11:31]  * davmor2 hugs czajkowski welcome back
[11:32] <czajkowski> davmor2: did you miss me
[11:32] <davmor2> czajkowski: You know the technical level of this channel rises when you not here :P
[11:32] <czajkowski> davmor2: oh bite me!
[11:33] <popey> \o/ the czajkowski and davmor2 show
[11:33] <czajkowski> davmor2: you know you missed me, you have nobody else that rants back at you
[11:33]  * gord gets popcorn
[11:33]  * mungojerry has written a strong email to the big bosses of his company :S
[11:33]  * popey puts toffee on gords popcorn
[11:33]  * screen-x observes that when thirsty, drinking is more effective than eating.
[11:33]  * czajkowski steals the popcorn and throws it over davmor2 
[11:33] <mungojerry> wonder whether it's good to stick your head above the parapet :S
[11:33] <popey> I had black pudding sandwich for brekkie this morning :D
[11:33] <popey> and it's pie week, so I want PIE!
[11:34] <screen-x> pie week?
[11:34] <gord> its pie week?
[11:34] <popey> it is
[11:34] <davmor2> czajkowski: Hey no wasting food even if it does get a Laugh
[11:34] <soneill> I thought pie was an all year round thing
[11:34] <popey> http://www.britishpieweek.co.uk/
[11:34] <davmor2> popey: don't tell the yanks they'll go potty
[11:34] <czajkowski> :o
[11:34] <mungojerry> does that also mean more rumpie pumpie...?
[11:34] <screen-x> haha PoTD is funny
[11:35] <shauno> ironically, 3/14 is /next/ week
[11:35] <popey> It means 3.14 more rumpie pumpie!
[11:35] <Pendulum> shauno: I was just thinking that
[11:35] <davmor2> czajkowski: How was your holiday?
[11:36] <czajkowski> fantastic
[11:36]  * popey has some http://www.amazon.co.uk/Make-Us-Brew-Organic-Chilli/dp/B003VJTL0W
[11:36]  * popey will be making czajkowski drink some next week
[11:37] <mungojerry> no pie week celbration at the work canteen :(
[11:39] <davmor2> czajkowski: you see we'd of been all nice to you if you'd of said awful now you deserve everything you get for having such a nice time :P
[11:40] <screen-x> mungojerry: ask them nicely, but if they don't respond positively, use sudo
[11:42] <screen-x> I thought ntpd was supposed to bring clocks into sync gently.. http://i.imgur.com/i17fN.png
[11:45] <mungojerry> weird, are u sure it wasn't an ntpdate command instead?
[11:45] <screen-x> mungojerry: I did restart ntpd, but didnt ntpdate
[11:45] <mungojerry> thinking of going to this conference in april, maybe others might be interested  http://www.infosec.co.uk/
[11:47] <czajkowski> popey: eh no drink till after, otherwise I'll speak even faster!
[11:47] <popey> hehe
[11:51] <davmor2> czajkowski: you're kidding right,  I have to record what you say now and play it back at half speed to know what you said
[11:52] <czajkowski> I cant even argue with you
[11:52] <gord> sigh, the problem with triaging unity bugs is that often its just compiz bugs, but people file them against unity :(
[11:52] <gord> #waytoaddanextrahourtomyday
[11:52] <davmor2> czajkowski: that must gut you then ;)
[11:54] <davmor2> gord: but you love it you know you do ;)
[11:54] <gord> really... really don't
[11:55] <davmor2> gord: can't you write a script that transfers them all over to compiz and have the compiz team forward the ones that actually effect unity :D
[11:55] <gord> if compiz used launchpad i wouldn't care, they use a bugzilla
[11:56] <mungojerry> gord: there is also a common conception that nobody/very few people are working on compiz
[11:56] <mungojerry> lots of old compiz bugs went unfixed for a long time
[11:56] <davmor2> gord: Meh
[11:56] <X3N> that and the compiz code base was never that good in the first place
[11:57] <gord> its been re-written
[11:57] <gord> natty compiz is basically entirely new, which means it has a crap load of new bugs
[11:57] <gord> please file/fix :(
[11:57] <mungojerry> there is a compiz bug that bites me almost every other day and crashes compiz, which sucks badly when u have > 50 windows open over virtual desktops...restarting compiz brings them onto 1 desktop again
[11:57] <AlanBell> gord: so how does one tell if a bug is compiz, or unity?
[11:58] <gord> AlanBell, test in classic desktop
[11:58] <AlanBell> good answer
[12:06] <shauno> today's so slow I'm trawling SE/askubuntu  :/
[12:06] <screen-x> < shauno> today's so slow I'm trolling SE/askubuntu  :/
[12:07] <screen-x> fixed that for you ;-)
[12:07] <shauno> heh
[12:07] <mungojerry> askbuuntu can be quite addictive
[12:08] <czajkowski> Anyone heading to the RMS talk this evening in London http://j.mp/dYlNNl
[12:12] <AlanBell> czajkowski: me
[12:13] <czajkowski> me too!
[12:13] <AlanBell> excellent
[12:15]  * AlanBell wonders if there will be food
[12:16] <Synth_sam> They're trying to organise for him to speak in Sheffield, I might go then, it's closer
[12:16] <czajkowski> 20:00 - 21:30 Networking   perhaps then
[12:17] <AlanBell> yup, hour and a half of networking does deserve food I think
[12:17] <AlanBell> if not then I am going for a curry :)
[12:17] <DJones> AlanBell: Will there be dancing?
[12:17] <mungojerry> AlanBell: toenail sandwiches
[12:18] <AlanBell> I am not sure whether I dislike mungojerry's or DJones's suggestion the most
[12:18] <Myrtti> puff pastries and deepfried shrimps
[12:18] <mungojerry> AlanBell: depends if you have seen the RMS toe jam video
[12:18]  * MooDoo isn't going, he's working on getting a linux event to dublin :)
[12:18] <ndf> i keep deleting items from the places sidebar in nautilus accidentally by pressing backspace to navigate 'up', if the sidebar is in focus backspace acts as delete, but if the folder contents have focus then it navigates up. is there a way to stop the delete function? surely it should only be mapped to delete as opposed to backspace anyway?
[12:19] <AlanBell> mungojerry: yes, I have. Eye bleach does not take it away.
[12:19] <gord> AlanBell, i hope you have designed RMS bingo ;)
[12:19] <AlanBell> gord: oooh, I could do that
[12:19] <AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/ still works
[12:19] <mungojerry> you might also want to take a posy of flowers to ward off B.O. from the multitude of unwashed geeks
[12:20] <AlanBell> mungojerry: how dare you say that about czajkowski
[12:20] <czajkowski> MooDoo: Dublin..
[12:20] <czajkowski> nooooo
[12:20] <czajkowski> much nicer places to go to than Dublin
[12:21] <MooDoo> czajkowski: it's a FUDCon bid
[12:21] <czajkowski> FUDCon
[12:21] <czajkowski> ?
[12:21] <czajkowski> also Dublin being one of the most expensives placews in ireland
[12:21] <mungojerry> i would probably go to the RMS event if it wasn't west end
[12:21] <MooDoo> oh sorry Fedora Users And Developers conference.
[12:21] <czajkowski> makes it very expensive to run events there
[12:21] <MooDoo> no need to discuss here :)
[12:21] <czajkowski> meh
[12:21] <czajkowski> if I can help with any venues let me know
[12:22] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i did have you in mind :)  thank you
[12:22] <czajkowski> yes but your mind is like davmor2
[12:22] <mungojerry> i listened to the uupc but no oggcamp venue mentioned..
[12:22] <czajkowski> in the gutter!
[12:22] <MooDoo> czajkowski: yes agreed, but i can be professional when i have to be
[12:22] <czajkowski> :o
[12:22] <SuperMatt> http://supermatt.net/OneiricOcelot/ When I think of Oneiric Ocelot, I think of this. Sandman book 8 - Brief Lives, chapter 6. Pages 10 to 15
[12:23] <MooDoo> czajkowski: not that often though :)
[12:24] <gord> what is RMS doing anyway? talking about anything interesting?
[12:24] <AlanBell> gord: I would hazard a guess that he will be talking about Free Software
[12:24] <mungojerry> i'd guess at: rights, data, facebook, FSF, wikileaks
[12:24] <gord> AlanBell, bleeeeeeeeehhhhh
[12:24] <AlanBell> and people in the audience will ask him about Open Source which will annoy him greatly
[12:25] <czajkowski> *grin*
[12:25]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski Oi I look down on the gutter these days,  admitted from the hight of a couple of mm's but still
[12:25] <MooDoo> davmor2: you hold i'll poke with a stick
[12:25] <gord> grr, why won't my usb stick boot
[12:25] <AlanBell> I look up to davmor2 because I am in the gutter, but I look down on MooDoo because he uses Fedora
[12:25] <Synth_sam> gord: it's not bootable
[12:25] <czajkowski> gord: cause you're running natty :p
[12:26] <gord> it is bootable!
[12:26] <davmor2> MooDoo: knows his place
[12:26] <MooDoo> AlanBell: only at work :p
[12:26] <czajkowski> davmor2: yes with you on the naughty step or in the gutter!
[12:26] <MooDoo> czajkowski: well i'm not going on the naughty step so there, *stamps foot*
[12:26] <mungojerry> MooDoo: how often do you need to upgrade with fedora in an office environment
[12:26] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[12:27] <gord> oh geez my bios is insane that is why
[12:27] <czajkowski> gord: yeah thats the reason
[12:27] <MooDoo> mungojerry: i'm still using F13, didn't upgrade to 14
[12:27] <gord> woo alpha 3 is booting, its all very exciting
[12:28] <davmor2> gord: I was going to say is the bios pointed at removable hd's first
[12:28] <Synth_sam> gord: is it one of those irritating bioses that adds USB flash drives to the HDD list, and you have to manually add it to the front of the priority to boot?
[12:28] <gord> Synth_sam, yes
[12:28] <MooDoo> mungojerry: i upgrade when ever i want to really...
[12:29] <mungojerry> MooDoo: you don't have an office full of fedora wearers then
[12:29] <davmor2> gord: it clears out a lot of the old issues I was have except for wifi,  atheros chips are a bit borked in natty
[12:29] <davmor2> mungojerry: at work he is the fedora wearer
[12:29] <mungojerry> we have 150 or so RHEL/Centos/SL users, which is OK until near the end of cycle and things get a bit old
[12:29] <czajkowski> gord: http://twitter.com/#!/andypiper/status/44732271680425984
[12:29] <mungojerry> would prefer debian/ubuntu tbh
[12:29] <MooDoo> mungojerry: no there is about 7 of us......i could put ubuntu on it, but i CBA :)
[12:30] <mungojerry> texlive isn't even available on RHEL
[12:30] <MooDoo> I do however, use Ubuntu at home on my other machines.
[12:30] <mungojerry> it's hardly a desktop OS anymore
[12:30] <gord> davmor2, cool, i'm actually just changing from 32 bit back to 64bit, i installed 32bit accidently a while back
[12:31] <davmor2> gord: It does however come with a whole heap of new unity/compiz issue expect lots of unity bugs ;)
[12:31] <gord> ah, the installer changed
[12:31] <gord> i wish they wouldn't change it, it always scares me that i'm gonna format wrong
[12:32] <ali1234> why did they make the boot menu... no longer a boot menu?
[12:32] <Synth_sam> gord: I prefer the alternate, at least you can see what you're doing then
[12:32] <davmor2> gord: it's far easier now!
[12:33] <Synth_sam> davmor2: does it still assume that you want grub on /dev/sda?
[12:33] <davmor2> Synth_sam: you can always use expert mode on ubiquity to modify everything you need
[12:33] <MooDoo> mungojerry: what's hardly a desktop os?
[12:33] <mungojerry> rhel
[12:33] <gord> errr i have no key input in the installer... not good
[12:33] <MooDoo> mungojerry: yeah, i just use it on servers.....
[12:33] <Synth_sam> davmor2: that's what I did, but I used the alternate iso, it's available on the standard one too?
[12:34] <MooDoo> mungojerry: i have 3 servers at home, centos windows and debian.....i think they will do me for now
[12:35] <davmor2> Synth_sam: yeap second page in iirc there is an expert mode for HD setup,  you'd have to have a look and see if it covered everything you need but I think it does
[12:35] <davmor2> Synth_sam: Ubiquity is afterall only a gui frontend to debian-installer
[12:36] <gord> i have never actually used/seen a windows server but the concept confuses me
[12:36] <MooDoo> gord: confuses?
[12:36] <gord> do you keep a monitor attached or something?
[12:36] <MooDoo> gord: nope, just having running on a vmware platform that i can rdesktop to
[12:38] <Synth_sam> davmor2: the maverick one allowed you to select the partitions manually, but then ran "grub-install /dev/sda" at the end of the installation, even though all of your installation was on sdc
[12:38]  * Synth_sam says bye to the windows MBR on sda
[12:39]  * AlanBell pokes czajkowski and the MooDoo with http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
[12:39] <davmor2> Synth_sam: yeah last screen where you could edit the details is were you can move grub to another drive I'll have to check that that is still available to be honest though
[12:39] <AlanBell> and everyone else
[12:40] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I've no idea...
[12:40] <czajkowski> trying to find a weekend to go to ireland
[12:40] <AlanBell> you can play from there
[12:40] <BigRedS> that's an awfully long way away to be planning already...
[12:40] <davmor2> czajkowski: Are you not irish enough do you have to go back for a topup from time to time?
[12:41] <MooDoo> AlanBell: done :)
[12:41] <czajkowski> davmor2: not seen my dad since dec 31st :( still a daddys girl!
[12:41]  * MooDoo hands czajkowski a blankie :)
[12:41] <davmor2> czajkowski: Why does that not surprise me :D
[12:43] <shauno> we need to setup some kind of exchange program.  I keep looking for a good excuse to leave for a weekend :)
[12:44] <MooDoo> shauno: where do you live now?
[12:44] <shauno> ireland
[12:44] <MooDoo> shauno: you need to come over and do the Nottingham experience ;)
[12:45] <czajkowski> shauno: keep an ear out for oggcamp
[12:46] <czajkowski> davmor2: oi
[12:47] <davmor2> czajkowski: oi to what, you being a Daddy's Girl or Irish?
[12:47] <MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski acts all rufty tufty but we know she's a puddy tat :)
[12:47]  * MooDoo runs and hides
[12:48]  * czajkowski peers at MooDoo 
[12:48] <davmor2> MooDoo: I point to a flaw in you plan here,  Tigers are puddy tats too ;)
[12:48] <czajkowski> no cats
[12:48] <MooDoo> davmor2: ah yes, ok substitute puddy tat with something else that is soft and fluffy and all ....ok i'll stop now
[12:49] <shauno> was half tempted to try get across for the rugby mess, but too close to paddy's .. the natives all booked their time off last april :(
[12:58] <AlanBell> MooDoo: an Ocelot
[12:59] <MooDoo> AlanBell: Oneiric?
[12:59] <davmor2> AlanBell: haha, topical I like it
[12:59] <MooDoo> hang on we're not calling czajkowski Oneiric are we ;)
[12:59] <AlanBell> how does one pronounce oneiric?
[12:59] <MooDoo> one iric i would say
[12:59] <MooDoo> ?
[12:59] <czajkowski> MooDoo: december 19th is not far away!
[13:00] <AlanBell> on air ick/
[13:00] <brobostigon>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/576959/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/730099
[13:00] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 730099 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup 0c40b170 (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New]
[13:00] <brobostigon> any ideas. ?
[13:00] <AlanBell> czajkowski: it is
[13:00] <MooDoo> czajkowski: december the 19th?
[13:01]  * MooDoo has gone nuts....
[13:01] <czajkowski> bah
[13:01] <czajkowski> March
[13:01]  * czajkowski needs food 
[13:02]  * brobostigon scp's czajkowski chocolate buttons.
[13:02] <MooDoo> czajkowski: nope, a week on sat :)
[13:04] <knightdroid> afternoon
[13:09] <MooDoo> knightdroid: good afternoon
[13:18]  * mungojerry is disappointed at the pie selection for pie week at the canteen
[13:26] <mungojerry> Mr Narayen [Adobe CEO] said that if Flash crashed Apple products it was something "to do with the Apple operating system." hmmmm
[13:26] <screen-x> and linux, and windows..
[13:26] <shauno> adobe users are happy.  they love adobe.  those are fireworks you're hearing, not explosions
[13:32] <mungojerry> at the trade show i went to the other day, i decided to aim for most freebies from companies i hated :P
[13:32] <mungojerry> namely adobe and oracle... i couldn't bear to get a microsoft pen
[13:35] <gord> not that i hate suse, but i have a suse reptile thingy plush toy :)
[13:35] <popey> me too
[13:35] <popey> well, my son does
[13:35] <gord> its cute!
[13:36] <gord> aaand fourth attempt to install ubuntu... first time i couldn't use the keyboard. second time the installer broke half way through screwing up my install, third time couldn't use the keyboard again...
[13:37]  * brobostigon shouts at the natty intel drivers and compiz for gpu lockup.
[13:37] <shauno> my money's on the keyboard winning this round ;)
[13:37] <mungojerry> i also have some red pills from adobe...i wonder what they do?
[13:39]  * davmor2 randomly prods czajkowski to make up for last week
[13:41] <davmor2> MooDoo: No not one iric theres definitely more that one iric,  I mean there iric idle, there iric the python ide etc etc etc etc
[13:41] <MooDoo> davmor2: you silly iric?
[13:42]  * MooDoo prods czajkowski on the same spot :)
[13:42] <mungojerry> ōˈnīrik
[13:42] <davmor2> mungojerry: thanks for clarifying that for us
[13:42] <mungojerry> anytime :)
[13:43]  * brobostigon has significant annoyance,
[13:43] <davmor2> MooDoo: could be worse it could be On Eiric I suppose
[13:44] <brobostigon> only solution, is to stay remotly ssh'd in, and get as much data when it happens as possible, and add it to the bug report. and hope it gets fixed.
[13:44] <MooDoo> davmor2: i'm giving up with trying to figure that out, i think we should stick to what we're good at, annoying czajkowski
[13:44] <gord> omgosh it installed!
[13:45] <davmor2> gord: yeah it does that, it fails to work after but it installs :P
[13:45] <gord> nope works fine
[13:46] <davmor2> gord: watch out for disappearing icons in app launcher it make launching an app like a huge guessing game, it's most fun
[13:46] <gord> nope launcher works fine
[13:48] <mungojerry> will unity have a separate Preferences type section rather than lumping all under installed Applications?
[13:53] <gord> mungojerry, open apps place you then click the drop down menu to select system apps
[13:54] <davmor2> gord: give it time and you too can be effected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/728393
[13:54] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 728393 in unity (Ubuntu) "Missing icons in app launcher" [High,Triaged]
[13:54] <mungojerry> gord: oh yeah, thanks ..don't recall seeing that last wek
[13:54] <gord> mungojerry, its new :)
[13:55] <mungojerry> huzzah
[13:55] <mungojerry> getting occasional screen corruption of text - anoyone else seeing that?
[13:55] <mungojerry> difficult one to pin down on launchpad...
[13:55] <gord> davmor2, nope, not affecting me at all
[13:56] <davmor2> gord: give it time my friend give it time :)
[13:57] <gord> seriously. no
[13:57] <gord> its something that is affecting your system, not mine
[13:58] <davmor2> gord: I know apparently it's really hard for the devs to track down too :(
[14:00] <ali1234> lol tooltips but no icons?
[14:00] <ali1234> nice
[14:09] <gord> ubuntu pestering you for your password if you enable auto-login is weird, i obviously don't care about security if i enable autologin!
[14:10] <czajkowski> file a bug :p
[14:11] <AlanBell> gord: if you don't need a password then the gnome keyring doesn't unlock
[14:11] <AlanBell> so you need to unlock that to get to the wifi key
[14:11] <gord> AlanBell, right, i know the technical reasons, but the experience is crappy
[14:12] <AlanBell> it is
[14:12] <Daviey> gord, I remember overiding that years ago, by using a shell script essentially, echo "password" | into something on login.
[14:12]  * czajkowski prods Daviey 
[14:12]  * Daviey sobs, and wonders why the czajkowski is mean to him.
[14:12] <mungojerry> found that bug 717114 matches my screen corruption issue
[14:12]  * gord puts "echo "password" > something" in his session autostart list
[14:12] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 717114 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Natty) "[i945gm] Screen Corruption with new Xorg stack with terminal programs" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717114
[14:13] <czajkowski> Daviey: I'm me
[14:13] <Daviey> gord, NO!
[14:13] <davmor2> gord: it's not ubuntu it's gnome keyring,  there was a fix in place for that in lucid but I think it disappeared in maverick and never made a come back,   I know I bugged it for maverick
[14:13] <mungojerry> gord, i have the same issue, there must be a better way...
[14:13] <Daviey> gord, it was piping it into something
[14:14] <gord> Daviey, oooh, "echo "password | something"
[14:14] <gord> gotcha
[14:14] <Daviey> gord, lemme know if it works
[14:14] <JamesTait> something: Command not found
[14:14] <JamesTait> :-P
[14:14] <mungojerry> but your password appears as ******* in irc :P
[14:14] <Daviey> JamesTait, you need to install something, it's from the some-utils package
[14:14]  * JamesTait spurts coffee out of his nose
[14:15] <JamesTait> I must stop dropping in here, it's bad for my sinuses.
[14:15] <JamesTait> Not to mention potentially detrimental to my productivity.
[14:16] <AlanBell> No command 'something' found, did you mean: Command 'vsomething' from package 'util-vserver' (universe)
[14:16]  * mungojerry can't stop eating adobe soap-flavoured jelly beans
[14:16] <JamesTait> btw, S04E01 opening argument is win++.
[14:16] <Daviey> AlanBell, ahh, that might be it
[14:17] <AlanBell> Daviey: clearly what you had in mind :)
[14:17] <JamesTait> Anyway, back to work.
[14:17] <mungojerry> me too .lunch over
[14:20] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I think I will take a bunch of CDs to this thing
[14:20] <AlanBell> not sure I will get a photo of RMS with an Ubuntu CD, but worth a try!
[14:20] <czajkowski> AlanBell: yes I'm sure RMS will love that
[14:21]  * BigRedS has an oracle CD on his desk...
[14:21] <mungojerry> AlanBell: maybe hide a load of ubuntu balloons inside a net on the ceiling, and let them drop at the right moment for a photo op
[14:22] <davmor2> MooDoo: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oneiric
[14:23] <MooDoo> davmor2: yes i was referring to Dreamy :)
[14:27] <andylockran> hey guys, anyone provide me some clues on fixing a boomerang nat?
[14:29] <andylockran> got an internal ip of 192.168.1.2, an external ip of 7.7.7.7 adn 7.7.7.7 port 80 forwards to 192.168.1.2
[14:29] <andylockran> when I access 7.7.7.7 from 192.168.1.4 - it works fine
[14:29] <andylockran> but when I access 7.7.7.7 from 192.168.1.2 I get no conn - some kind of nat issue?
[14:30] <popey> why would you access the external IP from inside?
[14:30] <popey> that makes no sense
[14:30] <AlanBell> it works on my router, but didn't work on my old one
[14:30] <popey> ditto
[14:31] <AlanBell> it does make sense because you don't have to override the dns to get it to resolve right
[14:31] <davmor2> You can if you can pinhole it
[14:31] <brobostigon> anyone i can kindly prod, to get 730099 fixed?
[14:32] <AlanBell> bug 730099
[14:32] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 730099 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup 0c40b170 (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/730099
[14:32] <davmor2> brobostigon: I'm confused how do you prod kindly?
[14:32] <AlanBell> #ubuntu-x perhaps
[14:32] <brobostigon> davmor2: speak nicely too. :)
[14:32] <MooDoo> davmor2: just like we do with czajkowski :)
[14:32] <brobostigon> AlanBell: already  done, no response.
[14:33] <screen-x> davmor2: put the cattle prod down, the proceed as usual
[14:33] <AlanBell> wait for more timezones to wake up
[14:33] <brobostigon> AlanBell: i was on most of yesterday, no change.
[14:33] <AlanBell> and/or find someone with the same hardware to confirm it
[14:33] <andylockran> popey: even though I set my mx in the hostfile, it's returning the DNS value ahead of the hosts value
[14:33] <AlanBell> yesterday was Sunday
[14:33] <brobostigon> AlanBell: good point.
[14:34] <andylockran> I could just do with a tech term for what it's called - so I can research it more
[14:34] <AlanBell> andylockran: show us that line of the hosts file?
[14:34] <davmor2> MooDoo: that for her own good it shows she's loved and that she's alive!
[14:34] <brobostigon> ok, anyone got a eeepc 900, with the gpu in that bug, with natty, with all recent updates,who can confirm such exists please.
[14:35] <andylockran> AlanBell: 192.168.6.55    filter.zednax.com
[14:35] <screen-x> andylockran: hairpin nat http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_7-3/anatomy.html
[14:35] <MooDoo> ok shush listening to s4ep1 podcast
[14:35] <AlanBell> andylockran: and you ping filter.zednax.com and it returns something other than 192.168.6.55?
[14:35] <andylockran> AlanBell: if I ping it, I get filter.zednax.com on 192.168.6.55
[14:36] <andylockran> ar  7 14:33:20 mta0 postfix/smtp[4780]: connect to filter.zednax.com[92.63.131.65]:25: Connection timed out
[14:36] <andylockran> but I get that in the logs ^^
[14:36] <AlanBell> oooh ok
[14:36] <screen-x> andylockran: what do you have for hosts in /etc/nsswitch.conf?
[14:37] <andylockran> hosts:       files dns
[14:37] <screen-x> so /etc/hosts should take priority.
[14:38] <AlanBell> andylockran: http://www.postfix-jp.info/origdocs/QandA-en.html#4.10
[14:39] <screen-x> AlanBell: useful, didnt know that postfix did it's own dns resolution.
[14:39] <AlanBell> I recall being bitten by the "postfix doesn't care about /etc/hosts" thing before
[14:45] <X3N> It's good that it doesn't quite a lot of the time I've found
[14:45] <AlanBell> why?
[14:46] <issyl0> Hello all.
[14:46] <issyl0> dutchie: yep.  :-)
[14:47] <andylockran> awesome - thanks :)
[14:47] <directhex> postfix is for people who don't understand exim
[14:48] <X3N> It means that postfix is more reliably going to respond to mail hostnames that it knows it handles
[14:48] <andylockran> It's only come up because I'm running it inside a Virtual Machine I think
[14:48] <andylockran> normally never notice
[14:48] <X3N> as hosts are often virtual
[14:58] <dogmatic69> does ubuntu have a 'pre install' of 10.10 x64 ec2 that i can use
[14:58] <dogmatic69> see some pre existing ones, but a official one would be cool
[15:03] <screen-x> dogmatic69: http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/lucid/current/
[15:03] <dogmatic69> screen-x: nice, looks like what i need
[15:03] <dogmatic69> any docs for that?
[15:04] <screen-x> dogmatic69: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide
[15:05] <dogmatic69> thanks
[15:09] <shauno> love short shifts :)  already home and the sun's still out :D
[15:10] <screen-x> shauno: great day to have an afternoon off :)
[15:10] <dogmatic69> its pretty awesome outside
[15:11]  * shauno peeks out the curtains
[15:12] <shauno> aye.  that fire thing is doing it's thing again
[15:12] <MooDoo> nice ride home for me then :)
[15:15] <shauno> hm.  I appear to have broken something.  a file named /foo keeps appearing containing '10'.
[15:15] <Azelphur> Hmm, trying to install 11.04. As soon as I get past the BIOS I just get a blinking cursor at the top left. Nothing else happens
[15:15] <Azelphur> any ideas?
[15:15] <shauno> do you hear the disk even spin up at all?  (assuming you're installing from optical ..)
[15:16] <Azelphur> I installed from LiveUSB and it went into the Live mode and that was all fine
[15:16] <Azelphur> this is post install
[15:16] <hamitron> no grub?
[15:16] <Azelphur> no grub, just blinking cursor :(
[15:19] <DJones> Azelphur: Have you tried recovery mode
[15:19] <MooDoo> lol number 14 please davina lol
[15:20]  * MooDoo is listening to the podcast
[15:20] <Azelphur> DJones, how can I get recovery mode if theres no grub?
[15:20] <dogmatic69> what is the default for a ssh-keygen... not 1024bit RSA i take it
[15:20] <Azelphur> http://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur now you can all see my screen, btw :p
[15:20] <screen-x> Azelphur: I'd boot from install media and reinstall grub.
[15:20] <DJones> Azelphur: Hold down the left shift key at boot, that should bring up the grub menu
[15:20]  * Azelphur tries
[15:20] <MooDoo> Azelphur: me looks
[15:21] <MooDoo> Azelphur: yep that works
[15:21] <Azelphur> DJones, shift don't work, I don't think it makes it to grub
[15:21] <Azelphur> lol
[15:21] <Azelphur> MooDoo, see the blinking cursor of doom? \o/
[15:21] <MooDoo> yeah
[15:21] <Azelphur> screen-x, booting from USB now see if I get anyhere
[15:21] <MooDoo> Azelphur: oi get your hand out the way :)
[15:22] <Azelphur> haha
[15:22] <screen-x> Azelphur: whats with those pots in front of the screen?
[15:22] <Azelphur> I was getting my USB stick :p
[15:22] <Azelphur> screen-x, that's my midi piano :D
[15:22] <screen-x> ahh :)
[15:23] <screen-x> I see..
[15:23] <Azelphur> ok so up in live, how do I reinstall grub?
[15:24] <screen-x> Azelphur: start with grub-install
[15:24] <screen-x> Azelphur: but you may need to chroot into the hdd install.
[15:24] <Azelphur> gonna use gparted quickly to check which drive to install to :)
[15:25] <MartijnVdS> FORE! http://i.imgur.com/XNKcx.jpg
[15:25] <Azelphur> says "error: found two disks with the index 0 for RAID md1." "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot stat aufs."
[15:26] <Azelphur> which is weird because I shouldn't have any raid arrays
[15:26] <screen-x> Azelphur: cat /proc/mdstat
[15:27] <Azelphur> "Personalities : " "unused devices: <none>"
[15:27] <screen-x> so no arrays are active, have the disks been used for RAID before?
[15:28] <Azelphur> I did try to raid them unsuccessfully a while back
[15:28] <Azelphur> but I've been using them as single drives for a long time since then
[15:31] <Azelphur> screen-x, looking at the drives in gparted, they don't have the raid flag
[15:32] <screen-x> Azelphur: try mdadm --assemble --scan and see if /proc/mdstat picks up anything.
[15:32] <popey> o_O
[15:32] <Azelphur> screen-x, no data loss on that right? :P
[15:32] <screen-x> popey: I take it that means bad plan?
[15:32] <Azelphur> I don't want it to decide to "recover" an array that never existed, that won't end well
[15:33] <popey> indeed
[15:33] <popey> you dont actually _want_ raid do you?
[15:33] <Azelphur> no I don't
[15:33] <dogmatic69> how do i create a pub key for aws?
[15:33] <screen-x> but if the disks are identified as part of an array, then that label needs to be removed.
[15:34] <dogmatic69> using ssh-keygen ones is not working
[15:34] <popey> assembling the array isnt wise though, surely?
[15:34] <popey> Azelphur: what does sudo fdisk -l show?
[15:34] <screen-x> Azelphur: is there stuff you mind loosing on these disks?
[15:34] <popey> pastebin?
[15:34] <Azelphur> screen-x, yup lol
[15:34] <popey> are they just marked as type fd or something?
[15:34] <screen-x> Azelphur: ahh sorry
[15:35] <cbx33> boo-ya all
[15:35] <popey> get you
[15:35]  * Azelphur grabs pastebinit
[15:35] <screen-x> Azelphur: bad assumption that people who have just installed, have no data to lose..
[15:35] <Azelphur> haha, 4 drives on this machine
[15:35] <Azelphur> I'm all for wiping one of them, but not the others :D
[15:37] <Azelphur> taking ages to do an update so I can get pastebinit :x
[15:38] <Azelphur> popey, http://pastebin.com/HeYH1ZSq
[15:39] <Azelphur>  /dev/sdb being the drive I installed on
[15:39] <popey> ok
[15:39] <popey> looks sane
[15:39] <popey> whats the problem again? :D
[15:40] <Azelphur> popey, installed ok to /dev/sdb, but when I boot I get past the bios and then I just get a blinking cursor
[15:40] <Azelphur> :(
[15:40] <popey> did you specify where grub was to be installed?
[15:40] <Azelphur> not during the install, no
[15:40] <Azelphur> maybe it put grub on /dev/sda
[15:41] <popey> do you choose the boot disk at boot time?
[15:41] <popey> because it might be booting off sda, but grub on sdb?
[15:42] <Azelphur> no, I have it set to sdb
[15:42] <Azelphur> yup, grub was on sda, it boots now
[15:42] <Azelphur> :D
[15:42] <popey> heh
[15:42] <popey> thats fixable
[15:42] <popey> if you want to
[15:42] <Azelphur> *shrug* I'm ok with it
[15:42] <popey> good
[15:42] <popey> :)
[15:42] <Azelphur> now the question is...how will unity fair with quad screen?
[15:43] <Azelphur> I have a feeling this will end somewhat badly
[15:43] <Azelphur> Experimental 3D support for NVIDIA cards o.O, I assume thats nouveau?
[15:52] <shauno> ooh.  I thought you were just bouncing names around.  he's actually going ahead with earache ocelot?  snazzy.
[15:53]  * screen-x stops spying on Azelphur 
[15:53] <Tommeh> Azelphur: that would be nouveau
[15:53] <Azelphur> hehe
[15:53] <Tommeh> I think
[15:54] <Tommeh> It's realted to KMS support, IIRC
[15:54] <Azelphur> lol compiz crashed and I havn't even done anything strange yet
[15:56] <Azelphur> lol yup, unity on quad screen = totally broken/unusable :D
[15:56] <Azelphur> figured it'd be a step down as usual lol
[15:56] <Azelphur> theres no task launcher on my other screen, and I don't even need to check to say it'll have a single instance check stopping it from coming up on the second screen :p
[15:58] <Azelphur> I wonder if nouveau can do proper multi screen.
[15:59] <Azelphur> popey, the option from jockey disappeared :(
[15:59] <Azelphur> that's a shame, I wanted to try it
[16:00] <Azelphur> it's probably gone because nouveau doesn't support the GTX 570 no doubt, though
[16:00] <Tommeh> nouveau has RandR support.
[16:00] <Azelphur> :D
[16:00] <Tommeh> Azelphur: if you pull down the xorg-edgers packages, I believe nouveau would
[16:01] <Tommeh> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix
[16:01] <Azelphur> :)
[16:02] <Azelphur> how do I get the xorg-edgers packages?
[16:02] <brobostigon> their ppa, i believe.
[16:02] <Tommeh> Yes, have a google -- you'll find their PPA page.
[16:03] <Tommeh> It includes the xorg drivers packaged from git -- same goes for X and mesa
[16:03] <gord> huh, is there another census going on?
[16:03] <gord> i don't pay attention to anything uk based ;)
[16:03] <Tommeh> You'll want to have a very recent kernel, too
[16:03] <Tommeh> 2.6.38-rc7 is probably as good as any.
[16:03]  * Tommeh is running it now :)
[16:03] <Tommeh> gord: there is, and it might be the last
[16:04] <Azelphur> installing it now :D
[16:05] <Azelphur> Tommeh, is there a ppa I should be on for kernels?
[16:05] <Tommeh> Mmm..
[16:05] <Tommeh> I think there is, but I just go straight to here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[16:05] <Tommeh> You might prefer, https://launchpad.net/~kernel-ppa/+archive/ppa
[16:05] <Tommeh> But I just install the .deb's manually with dpkg
[16:06] <Azelphur> hehe I'll go with the ppa *shrug*
[16:07] <Tommeh> Azelphur: Hmm.. Actually there's not much in that PPA
[16:07] <Tommeh> Just Natty backports for lucid
[16:07] <Azelphur> yea, apt-get update fails on that ppa for me
[16:07] <Tommeh> So if you're running Natty, don't worry. And if you're on Maverick, download from the first URI
[16:08] <Azelphur> I'm on natty :)
[16:11] <Azelphur> there we go, Experimental 3D support has returned, installing it now :)
[16:17] <Azelphur> Tommeh, hmm doesn't look promising, I only see 2 of my 4 monitors in the display preferences
[16:18] <Azelphur> How can I be sure I'm running nouveau? I'm still unsure as to if it'll work on my card :p
[16:20] <popey> look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[16:21] <Tommeh> Azelphur: did you look at the feature matrix link? Support is listed there.
[16:21] <Tommeh> IIRC all of the cards have 2D support
[16:21] <Azelphur> yea I see lots oe nouveau in xorg.conf so I must be running it
[16:22] <Azelphur> Tommeh, I doubt I'll find much info on >2 displays, it's a bit of a niche subject
[16:22] <popey> not xorg.conf, /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[16:22] <Azelphur> sorry, that's what I meant
[16:22] <popey> ok
[16:22] <Azelphur> brain fart :p
[16:22] <Azelphur> It see's the monitors on my GTX 570, but not the ones connected to the 8800GT
[16:22] <Tommeh> Azelphur: It won't specifically list that, I never intended for you to find that out
[16:23] <Tommeh> Nouveau is mostly a WIP, so you should check to see if X RandR support is complete/WIP/not there, etc.
[16:23] <Azelphur> I see
[16:23] <Tommeh> Azelphur: spanning two cards is *definitely* a nich subject, lol
[16:23] <Tommeh> *niche
[16:23] <Azelphur> haha
[16:23] <Azelphur> it's the only way to do more than 2 displays though
[16:23] <Tommeh> Well, it isn't
[16:23] <Azelphur> barring the new ATI displayport stuff
[16:23] <Tommeh> :)
[16:24] <Tommeh> Expensive though, I know what you mean
[16:24] <Azelphur> and ATI + Wine games = lolno
[16:24] <Azelphur> and also dual head to go + games = lolno :p
[16:24] <Azelphur> so yea, only choice is multi card if you need performance and lots of displays
[16:26] <Tommeh> ATI FOSS 3D accel is based on Gallium3D, in the same way that Nouveau's is
[16:26] <Azelphur> hehe
[16:26] <Tommeh> So you'll likely have as much luck with either of those (if not less with nouveau)
[16:26] <Azelphur> true
[16:26] <Tommeh> But anyway, you know there's a
[16:27] <Tommeh> *you know there's a #nouveau channel?
[16:27] <Azelphur> already there :D
[16:27] <Tommeh> Ah :)
[16:27] <Tommeh> Mind the cranky dev.
[16:28]  * Azelphur takes cover :p
[16:31] <Azelphur> haha, they are being nice to me because they want a mimo trace from my gtx 570 :D
[16:33] <popey> they are nice anyway
[16:33] <popey> IMO
[16:33] <popey> one of the guys there fixed a bug I had with nouveau in a matter of minutes
[16:33] <popey> and I was able to patch and test it myself
[16:34] <SuperMatt> that reminds me, I need to raise a bug about mouse buttons, but I don't know where to start
[16:34] <kazade> popey, with a tiny bit of help ;)
[16:34] <SuperMatt> essentially, if you switch mouse buttons for lefties, on occsion it won't let you "left click" (which is now on the right) until you've "right clicked" (which is now on the left)
[16:35] <Azelphur> popey, indeed :)
[16:37] <jacobw2> \o/ new podcast
[16:37]  * jacobw2 is listening to now
[16:38] <BigRedS> SuperMatt: I'd go with something X-related
[16:39] <BigRedS> how easy is it to reproduce?
[16:39] <SuperMatt> it seems to just happen about once an hour
[16:39] <SuperMatt> I can't work out if there's anything that causes it
[16:40] <BigRedS> hmm, bit weird. But, yeah, if you can demonstrate its existence (or lack of) outside of, say, Gnome, that'd help pick a package
[16:40] <SuperMatt> oh man, you mean install kde or lxde? D:
[16:40] <BigRedS> or, alternatively, file a bug against something of your choosing and someone who knows more than you may come along and reassign it
[16:40] <BigRedS> hah, I'd never wish to impose either of those on anyone :)
[16:40] <MooDoo> jacobw2: the quiz is funny :)
[16:41] <BigRedS> actually, I've never seen lxde, so I've no idea what it's like
[16:41] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[16:41] <SuperMatt> BigRedS: I was thinking of raising it against gnome-mouse-properties, seeing as that is what I used to switch the buttons
[16:41] <BigRedS> Ah yeah, that seems as good a place as any
[16:42] <BigRedS> you'll at least get all the mousey gnome people
[16:42] <SuperMatt> I thought so
[16:42] <BigRedS> who're best placed, if need be, to say "no. that's a problem in Y"
[16:42] <SuperMatt> I imagine there just aren't many people in the world that'd be bothered to switch it
[16:42] <SuperMatt> question is, raise it in ubuntu, or raise it in gnome? Because right now I know it only to affect ubuntu
[16:43] <silner> BigRedS, have you seen openbox? It's similar to Lxde in many ways
[16:43] <BigRedS> silner: yeah, I keep flitting between openbox and gnome
[16:44] <BigRedS> well, *box and gnome, openbox is the most recent one
[16:44] <brobostigon> silner: openbox is lxde's WM, as far as i know.openbox is a WM, and lxde is a DE.
[16:45] <BigRedS> brobostigon: ahhhh, so it's somebody else having gone to the trouble of configuring openbox?
[16:45] <brobostigon> is the*
[16:45] <BigRedS> that's why I keep going back to gnome... :)
[16:45] <silner> brobostigon no owned they seem similar :)
[16:46] <silner> Some systems say they use OB and others Lxde - no wonder I couldn't tell the difference :)
[16:46] <brobostigon> silner: they are fundementally different, but you canuse openbox as a WM, without anything else ontop, yes.
[16:48] <silner> I like Crunchbang's implementation and I like Lubuntu too
[16:48] <silner> I'd say CB has the edge but it's close
[16:48] <brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LXDE#Components confirmed, openbox alone, or lxde as the DE, and openbox as the WM.
[16:50] <kazade> what the...
[16:50] <kazade> I just opened Libreoffice in the first time in ages
[16:50] <kazade> anyone else got catastrophically bad idcons ?
[16:50] <kazade> *icons
[16:50] <silner> brobostigon,  Right so my guess now is that Lubuntu is Lxde, but Crunchbang uses OpenBox slightly differently
[16:51] <silner> I nearly always use Abiword now, though I will try Libreoffice soon out of curiosity
[16:51] <brobostigon> silner: lubuntu uses lxde as its DE (openbox as its WM). crunchbang used openbox alone.
[16:52] <silner> brobostigon, strange - you'd think that would make Lxde seem fuller, but it doesn't feel that way. CB is nicer, but it's not much faster
[16:53] <brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrunchBang_Linux#Comparison_with_Ubuntu
[16:53] <brobostigon> as it says there, it uses oopenbox alone,
[16:53] <popey> crunchbang uses openbox and xfce
[16:54] <brobostigon> popey: i understand, it canuse either, or.
[16:54] <brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrunchBang_Linux#Features as it says there.
[16:56] <silner> CB is a very interesting project. It's way more than the usual offshoot or Ubuntu or Debian. I know it includes some non free stuff, but it seems like only the stuff that has no real FREE correlates to me
[16:57] <silner> I have used CB as my netbook distro for some time now - Ubuntu Desktop and Fedora laptop (Fedora supports PCMCIA card batter)
[16:58] <BigRedS> i keep meaning to try crunchbang, but I'm getting a bit bored of distro-hopping recently
[16:58] <BigRedS> I've become a proper debian user I think. I despise change...
[16:59] <silner> I don't distro hop as such any more BigRedS I just like all three for different purposes and intend to keep it that way
[17:00] <popey> silner: what non-free stuff does it include?
[17:00] <silner> Skype is the main one I use popey
[17:00] <popey> (I didnt see any non-free stuff when i installed it on my eee900)
[17:00] <popey> thats not included by default, the cb_welcome script goes and gets it and installs it as an option
[17:01] <popey> but you have to choose to do it
[17:01] <silner> Oh I may have installed it popey I've had it for a while now - not even this version
[17:01] <silner> Not statler
[17:01] <popey> I am running statler
[17:01] <popey> its very nice
[17:01] <popey> has a first run wizard that lets you chosoe extra stuff to install
[17:01] <Azelphur> popey, happen to know if theres a way to disable unity in 11.04?
[17:01] <popey> shame its based on debian and not ubuntu now :(
[17:02] <BigRedS> Azelphur: apt-get install gnome I'd have thought
[17:02] <popey> Azelphur: yes, login with classic desktop
[17:02] <popey> no BigRedS
[17:02] <BigRedS> oh, or that. even easieer
[17:02] <silner> I do need to upgrade but I really hate the backup thing. One reason I could never work in tech :)
[17:02] <Azelphur> ah, sounds easy
[17:02] <Azelphur> I'd use it if it worked with multiple X screens
[17:02] <Azelphur> hopefully one day the nouveau people will rescue me from my multi X pain :p
[17:02] <silner> popey, does that make any practical difference though
[17:03] <silner> I was wondering that popey would statler deprive me of using Ubuntu ppas - like Pino for eg?
[17:05] <SuperMatt> BigRedS: I hope this explains my issue clearly enough: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/730737
[17:05] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 730737 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "After swapping mouse buttons in gnome-mouse-properties, the buttons occasionally "hang"" [Undecided,New]
[17:06] <popey> silner: well, it's never going to be a blessed downstream if it's based on debian :)
[17:11] <bigcalm> popey: http://www.myrant.net/2011/03/07/mimicking-wordpress-coms-image-resize-uris/ # may or may not be of use to you
[17:11] <bigcalm> Haha, I got 2 ping back notifications as I linked 2 posts to each other
[17:12] <popey> neat
[17:18] <BigRedS> SuperMatt: thinking about it, I might've seen that with the buttons the right-way-round
[17:18] <BigRedS> I'll have to check with the guy that had it
[17:18] <bigcalm> I do like the system of adding width and height to the end of an image URI to resize it
[17:19] <davmor2> czajkowski, popey: And others have you written out your UDS proposals yet?
[17:20] <Laney> yep
[17:22] <popey> davmor2: no
[17:24] <popey> tbh I can't see myself getting sponsored
[17:25] <popey> there's a lot more 'important' people out there
[17:25] <screen-x> !popey
[17:25] <lubotu3`> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
[17:25] <bigcalm> Who is more important than a Pope?
[17:25] <screen-x> ;-)
[17:25] <popey> A dog?
[17:25] <davmor2> popey: there's always a need for a mic monkey ;)
[17:25] <bigcalm> A: everybody
[17:33] <Azelphur> popey, any idea what happened to the Visual Effects tab on Appearance properties?
[17:35] <popey> xhmm?
[17:35] <popey> Azelphur: what do you mean by "happened"?
[17:35] <Azelphur> the tab in Appearance properties for enabling compiz
[17:35] <Azelphur> well, happened as in it's gone
[17:35] <popey> what session are you logged into?
[17:35] <davmor2> Azelphur: is this in Natty
[17:35] <Azelphur> yup natty
[17:35] <Azelphur> popey, classic desktop
[17:36] <popey> surely its already enabled?
[17:36] <popey> as in compiz
[17:36] <davmor2> Azelphur: Unity only works in 3d mode
[17:36] <Azelphur> I'm in classic desktop so no unity
[17:36] <popey> there's two session options, one with and one without compiz
[17:36] <Azelphur> I see
[17:36] <popey> iirc
[17:36] <Azelphur> they probably replaced it with that then
[17:36]  * popey logs out of unity to see
[17:37] <Azelphur> what irritates me is I don't know how to start compiz properly for multi X without that button :D
[17:37] <popey> ALT+F2, compiz --replace
[17:37] <popey> is the old school way of doing it
[17:37] <brobostigon> interesting, on three payg, for £15 a quid a month, you get unlimited data,
[17:37] <popey> yes, on GDM screen there is under sessions "Ubuntu Classic Desktop" and "Ubuntu Classic Desktop (No effect)
[17:38] <popey> *unlimited: note, not unlimited.
[17:38] <brobostigon> agreed.
[17:38] <Azelphur> popey, I thought 3 had decided to stop doing that?
[17:38] <gord> someone submitted a patch, have to get them to sign the CC first but its great, lets you have any size launcher in unity. have a 32-pixel width one at the moment
[17:38] <popey> how wide is it usually?
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> can I move the launcher bar yet?
[17:39] <davmor2> popey: 64 iirc
[17:40] <gord> erm 42 i think
[17:40] <gord> MartijnVdS, iirc thats being left up to a community person, for RTL languages
[17:40] <bigcalm> Any suggestions for some nice piano music?
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> gord: I want it for my LTR language tbh :)
[17:41]  * brobostigon tries to find three's payg "all you can eat",terms and conditions.
[17:44] <Azelphur> hmm, not getting along with the new media player (banshee), it doesn't seem interested in opening m3u files for internet radio at all
[17:44] <Azelphur> Rhythmbox handled em no problem
[17:45] <Azelphur> Rhythmbox was like "I'm batman" and added them to the internet radio tab so I could change station easy :D
[17:46] <davmor2> Azelphur: known bug thought it got fixed.  Start banshee from command line and try it again to confirm it is that bug
[17:48] <Azelphur> davmor2, weird, worked when I tried it from command line
[17:48] <Azelphur> any way for me to put m3u/pls into the Radio tab?
[17:48] <davmor2> Azelphur: in that case known bug.  for that you have to add a radio station from fresh I think
[17:49] <Azelphur> fun \o/
[17:49] <Azelphur> guess I'll jump to banshee to follow the crowd once that's fixed, I only use media players for internet radio :p
[17:49] <davmor2> Azelphur: I'm with you in that I think RB is the better player but the community spoke out and wanted banshee
[17:50] <davmor2> Azelphur: there is a stream cast plugin that gives you loads of channels
[17:51] <Azelphur> hmm, it doesn't seem to ship with it
[17:51]  * brobostigon cant find, three's "all you can eat" apparent unlimited data allowance, terms and conditions.
[17:52] <Azelphur> found it in the repo, but it supporting shoutcast.com and not icecast.com makes me facepalm
[17:52] <Azelphur> icecast being the non-evil, open source allowed version of shoutcast
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Banshee is mono.. that's already evil :)
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: evil + evil = good?
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> maybe?
[17:56] <davmor2> Azelphur: I didn't say it was perfik I just said it was there
[17:56] <Azelphur> haha
[17:56] <Azelphur> wow mono
[17:57] <bigcalm> Who chose to name it after the 'kissing disease'?
[17:57] <Azelphur> I'll go back to rb :D
[17:57] <jpds> bigcalm: Spanish/Catalan for monkey.
[17:57] <bigcalm> Aha
[17:58] <bigcalm> So no referece to .NET in the name
[17:58] <jpds> No, just the native language of the creator.
[17:58] <popey> he loves monkeys
[17:58] <bigcalm> I see :)
[17:59] <bigcalm> popey: who doesn't?
[17:59] <popey> well, indeed
[17:59] <bigcalm> I'm a code monkey
[17:59] <jpds> popey: "El ama a los mono", repete.
[18:08] <gil> Is there a nice current ppa for playing with gnome-shell on natty? All the ppas I've managed to find seem to be obsoleted or borked :(
[18:09] <brobostigon> gil: try the gnome3 teams, it all there, :)
[18:09] <brobostigon> gil: and it not broken, i have it running here, no broken'ness.
[18:10] <cbx33> is it nice?
[18:10] <cbx33> clean?
[18:10] <cbx33> like gnome?
[18:10] <cbx33> :p
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> it's so clean they're even removing the maximize/minimize buttons now
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> they're out of other things to remoev
[18:13] <bigcalm> I can understand not needing them if you're on a 10" screen. But anything bigger and you might want to be able to resize at the click of a button
[18:14]  * bigcalm is sad
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> I'll keep using Gnome 2 then
[18:15] <X3N> they're not totally gone, it's just in a context menu now
[18:15] <brobostigon> iam part-time gnome-shell/gnome3 and unity, right now.
[18:16] <X3N> the breif rational is that maximise can be done by dragging the app to the top and you don't need minimise because you have automatic workspaces
[18:16] <X3N> iirc
[18:17] <X3N> *brief
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> yeah I discovered that "feature" in compiz the other day
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> it also does "half-maximizing" if you drag to the left or right side of the screen
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> which is annoying if you're trying to tile up terminals :)
[18:18] <X3N> I suspect that'll be something developed in the future
[18:20] <andypiper> Can anyone help me to work out where on launchpad a bug belongs?
[18:21] <andypiper> I installed a fresh Natty Alpha 3 on a netbook
[18:21] <andypiper> but on boot, no input buttons / clicks work
[18:21] <andypiper> goes for touchpad, and for USB mouse
[18:21] <andypiper> if I switch to a console and reinsert psmouse module then it "sometimes" comes back but I'm still not seeing the trackpad buttons working, only tap-to-click
[18:22] <andypiper> not sure - is this kernel?
[18:24]  * andypiper taps the side of the glass bottle
[18:25] <Azelphur> I'm poking popey way too much today, but he probably knows :x
[18:25] <gord> andypiper, might be xorg, try asking #ubunt-x maybe?
[18:25] <X3N> andypiper: can you use external mouse/keyboard?
[18:25] <andypiper> ta
[18:25] <andypiper> keyboard is interesting in Unity! you can search for apps in the launcher panel, but then you can't select them without using the mouse
[18:26] <andypiper> external mouse - I figured plugging on in would work, but no, only moves pointer, no clicks work
[18:29] <Baikonur> i'm alternating between wonders of the solar system and 'look around you'
[18:30] <Baikonur> to make sure i'm kept in balance
[18:36] <bigcalm> Wish they made more of Look Around You
[18:46] <andylockran> hey dudes
[18:47]  * andylockran is on my new macbook pro :p
[18:47] <andylockran> no what you want to hear I guess
[18:47] <andylockran> can you get terminator for OSX.?
[18:54] <BigRedS> andylockran: yeah
[18:55] <BigRedS> hah, no, not that terminator :)
[18:55] <andylockran> the terminator as in apt-get install terminator ?
[18:55] <andylockran> is that the same as the tenshu.net one ?
[18:56] <BigRedS> andylockran: I think they are the same
[18:56] <BigRedS> it's jessies.org that's the different one
[18:56] <BigRedS> a java-based terminal emulator
[18:57] <andylockran> ah, ok
[18:58] <andylockran> I'll take a look at the fink project soon I'm sure..
[18:59] <Azelphur> I'm trying to help the nouveau people by getting an mmio trace for my gtx 570, In order to do so I need to reload the nvidia module
[18:59] <Azelphur> I can unload it ok, but when I try and modprobe it again it says it doesn't exist
[18:59] <brobostigon> http://blog.three.co.uk/2010/12/15/new-all-you-can-eat-data-on-the-one-plan/ they are saying there, no fair use policy and no data restrictions.
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:00] <brobostigon> idoubt it, very much,
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> if only they did that here
[19:00] <Azelphur> brobostigon, I'm pretty sure three don't have one, their CEO came out with a press release a while back stating that advertising unlimited when it wasn't really unlimited was one of the dumbest things he'd ever done.
[19:01] <brobostigon> Azelphur: so it is truly what it says it is, then?
[19:02] <Azelphur> based on what I've read, yes I'd say so
[19:02] <dutchie> andylockran: you could just ask Ng, as he did write the thing (and istr uses a mac)
[19:02] <Azelphur> it really is unlimited no fup
[19:02] <Azelphur> Sky unlimited for landlines is also unlimited no fup
[19:02] <brobostigon> Azelphur: thats amazing in which case, i am impressed.
[19:03] <Azelphur> brobostigon, indeed, if you look around the three website now you'll see they do have plans that are capped too, but the caps are clearly advertisied
[19:03] <Azelphur> there is no unlimited* crap
[19:04] <Azelphur> I spend a lot of my time looking for the no fup isps :p
[19:04] <Azelphur> giffgaff for your mobile, three for your mobile broadband, sky for landline adsl :D
[19:04] <Azelphur> they all have no FUP
[19:04] <brobostigon> :)
[19:05] <Azelphur> I also believe one of the virgin packages has no FUP (the MAX one?)
[19:05] <Azelphur> the evil fup trend may be ending :D
[19:05] <brobostigon> maybe,
[19:26] <andylockran> dutchie: that would be sensible.
[19:26] <andylockran> ping Ng
[19:30] <brobostigon> i think i will try one of three's payg free sims, and see what there coverage and things are like,
[19:30] <brobostigon> test them out.
[19:31] <popey> ebenink
[19:31] <dutchie> i beg your pardon popey?
[19:32] <brobostigon> has popey had a drink?
[19:32] <popey> no
[19:33] <andylockran> how's things popey
[19:37] <daubers> Evening
[19:41] <Azelphur> halp I broke apt :( http://pastebin.com/Y2F9CiUh
[19:41] <Azelphur> when ever I try and install anything I get that
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: remove the line that tries to remove that key from /var/lib/dpkg/info/pidgin-ppa.postrm
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (just put a # in front of the line)
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> this is wizard-level hackery, beware :)
[19:43] <Azelphur> success :D
[19:43] <Azelphur> haha
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: only one level up from here.. editing /var/lib/dpkg/available :)
[19:52] <Azelphur> :p
[19:54] <dogmatic69_> im ssh'ed into my slicehost server and clicking on terminal does funny things.. outputting garbage
[19:54] <dogmatic69_> any clue what this is?
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: yes. A program set the terminal to "report mouse events" mode
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> but didn't turn it off when it terminated
[19:55] <dogmatic69_> hmm
[19:56] <dogmatic69_> new terminal works ok, thanks
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: there is a way to disable it
[19:56] <dogmatic69_> could be cheokee or htop
[19:56] <dogmatic69_> had a broken pipe on that window
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> htop probably
[19:57] <dogmatic69_> ye
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> echo -e '\e[?1000l'
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> that should disable it :)
[20:05] <Azelphur> lol, watching the debug log for compiz to figure out where my window decorations are going
[20:05] <Azelphur> "unity-window-decorator" <errorspam>
[20:05] <Azelphur> "Oh, that's where they are going"
[20:11] <caulkz> evening :)
[20:19] <Azelphur> lol I just had an interesting thought, if you completely replace every element of the UI, is it still Ubuntu? XD
[20:19] <ali1234> if you use ubuntu repos it's ubuntu
[20:19] <Azelphur> suppose :p
[20:20] <ali1234> if you are actually going to go to the trouble building your own ui you may as well use debian
[20:20] <ali1234> since you won't benefit in any way from any of the work put into ubuntu
[20:21] <Azelphur> I'm not building anything really, it's just I use cairo-dock instead of gnome-panel, I don't use nautilus desktop, I have my own theme and everything
[20:21] <Azelphur> if you was to look at it you wouldn't be able to tell it was Ubuntu at all
[20:25] <hewbass> Evening all!
[20:26] <HazRPG> howdy everyone
[20:26] <MartijnVdS>  \o haz
[20:26] <hewbass> Liking the new flashy Unity on Ubuntu Natty... I shall be interested to see how much I still like it after prolonged use :) (well... it is quite a change)
[20:27] <hewbass> (although it took me a while to realise that F10 was the way to get keyboard focus to the indicators!)
[20:32] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o
[20:32] <brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
[20:32] <HazRPG> brobostigon: evening :)
[20:33] <brobostigon> :)
[20:33] <HazRPG> seems the guy who had trouble with my extension tried to chat me with earlier, but I wasn't around. They've just opened up a chat just now, however they're not replying... which is weird :S
[20:33] <ali1234> wow debian comes on 8 dvds
[20:34] <Azelphur> needs moar dvds.
[20:34] <ali1234> i guess that's the whole of all the repos
[20:34] <HazRPG> ali1234: woaahhhh
[20:34] <Azelphur> yea, it is
[20:34] <hewbass> Does anybody else see the 'Unknown body response' error when using IMAP+ in evolution? (I get it with large gmail folders such as '[GMail]/All Mail'?
[20:34] <Azelphur> Trying to play minecraft, keep getting java.awt.HeadlessException...but I'm not headless
[20:34] <Azelphur> :(
[20:34] <ali1234> hewbass: not seen that one but evolution is pretty awful with gmail in general
[20:35] <Azelphur> indeed, I use Thunderbird with gmail
[20:35] <HazRPG> hewbass: hmm, I don't seem to have trouble with IMAP (without the plus sign)
[20:35] <DJones> Azelphur: If I didn't know better, I'd suggest you were playing on a headless server, but with 4 screens ...... I guess not :)
[20:35] <hewbass> ali1234: gmail is not kind to any imap clients, but I have not found evolution to be particularly bad (although it is slow compared to Thunderbird)
[20:35] <Azelphur> DJones: haha
[20:36] <brobostigon> k9 on android seems pretty good, after a few weeks of using it.
[20:36] <Azelphur> so can anyone help me get minecraft working? http://pastebin.com/Jqi3dufx
[20:36] <hewbass> HazRPG: works fine with IMAP (no plus) ... but I would like to use the IDLE option (available with from IMAP+)
[20:36] <Azelphur> I have a house to build :(
[20:36] <danfish> +1 for k9
[20:36] <HazRPG> hewbass: try it with IMAP regular, then change the settings to IMAP+ and see if that works
[20:37] <HazRPG> that way it doesn't have to download the whole lot
[20:37] <HazRPG> hewbass: if that does fix the problem, might be worth sending them a bug report
[20:37] <Azelphur> brobostigon danfish +1 too :P
[20:37] <hewbass> HazRPG: it caches IMAP and IMAP+ completely seperately, so it does re-download the whole lot...
[20:37] <danfish> evening all btw :)
[20:38] <HazRPG> brobostigon: k9?
[20:38] <HazRPG> danfish: evening :)
[20:38] <brobostigon> evening danfish :)
[20:38] <hewbass> HazRPG: will try to gather enough information for a bug report I guess...
[20:38] <brobostigon> HazRPG: k9 is an android email client.
[20:40] <HazRPG> hewbass: my gmail is very full too, I'll see if I can get the same effect on mine to help confirm it is a bug :)
[20:40] <HazRPG> but brb for a moment
[20:40] <hewbass> HazRPG: Thx!
[20:40] <danfish> brobostigon: and one that has been very actively and well developed over the last year IMO
[20:41] <brobostigon> danfish: i agree, yes, it has improved alot. and is fully OSS, :)
[20:41] <danfish> :)
[20:42]  * danfish really wants an affordable, well spec'd android tablet
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> danfish: Wait a few years :)
[20:42]  * brobostigon too.
[20:42] <danfish> ideally that could boot ubuntu aswell
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> or: would you like a pony with that? :)
[20:42] <brobostigon> and haiku-os.
[20:42] <danfish> MartijnVdS: I know - moon on a stick...
[20:43] <danfish> anyone see the ISS and shuttle overhead this evening?
[20:43] <Azelphur> yay got minecraft working
[20:43] <brobostigon> danfish: i didnt know, :(
[20:44] <brobostigon> and it is a clear night, aswell.
[20:44] <dutchie> i saw them the other day
[20:44] <danfish> brobostigon: don't worry - they are visible for two more nights
[20:44] <danfish> let me get the linl
[20:45] <danfish> s/linl/link
[20:45] <HazRPG> brobostigon: nice :)
[20:45]  * MartijnVdS saw the ISS a while ago
[20:45] <brobostigon> danfish: which direction ? what angle and compass direction ?
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> but usually it's too light polluted here :(
[20:45] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am lucky, i am on the inner skirts of a smalltown, so its not too bad.
[20:46] <danfish> http://www.n2yo.com/
[20:46] <brobostigon> thank you danfish :)
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'm just north of an area full of greenhouses...
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: who keep their lights on at night to make stuff grow faster
[20:46] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, not good, :(
[20:46] <HazRPG> doesn't even know what an ISS is...
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: space station
[20:46] <brobostigon> HazRPG: international space station*
[20:47] <HazRPG> ah wait, yes I do then :)
[20:48] <hewbass> Has anyone been using Natty for a reasonable amount of time? The effort going into the design (and implementation) is quite noticeable -- the New Unity is a big improvement...
[20:48] <brobostigon> ok, if i have 3g  turned on, k9 will take less  time to check email's. if i have it only on 2g, k9  will take longer to get email. which will use less power overall. ?
[20:49] <directhex> what's your polling interval?
[20:49] <brobostigon> danfish: push, no polling.
[20:49] <ali1234> brobostigon: 2g will use less power
[20:50] <brobostigon> ali1234: i agree, yes.
[20:50] <danfish> brobostigon: IIRC android at present doesn't really do pushing in the conventional sense, but tries to maintain a constant connection
[20:50] <ali1234> unless you get 100000 emails per day, you wont see much speed difference
[20:50] <hewbass> brobostigon: if I remember correctly, it (on average) takes more power to hold an open (but idle) 3G packet connection than a 2G packet connection (your mileage may vary with distance to tower, and how much congestion)
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> hewbass: that's changing with operators adopting a new "hot standby" mode for 3G though
[20:51] <ali1234> well, unless your imap client is completely broken and likes to download the whole mailbox every time
[20:51] <brobostigon> danfish: can you elaborate please.
[20:51] <brobostigon> ali1234: hmm, ok.
[20:51] <ali1234> *cough* maemo 5 *cough*
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> "Network Controlled Fast Dormancy"
[20:51] <brobostigon> hewbass: i have my suspictions, on that, :)
[20:51] <danfish> brobostigon: let me find the link - it's from some mqtt stuff i've been doing
[20:52] <brobostigon> danfish: thank you.
[20:52] <brobostigon> however the idea in my head was, wont it take less power, if it takes lessrunning time for k9  to be running.
[20:52] <hewbass> MartijnVds: I thought they'd only just got around to agreeing the standard? I didn't think anyone was deploying kit/software updates to take care of it yet?
[20:52] <caulkz> done a whois, works - thanks guys :D
[20:53] <danfish> brobostigon: the gist of it is here http://tokudu.com/2010/how-to-implement-push-notifications-for-android/
[20:53] <brobostigon> danfish: thank you.
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> hewbass: T-Mobile is deploying it in the Netherlands
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> hewbass: most new phones do it
[20:54] <ali1234> 3G idle seems to use more battery than wifi idling
[20:55] <brobostigon> ali1234: i thought wifi used alot of battery, wow.
[20:55] <hewbass> MartijnVds: cool...
[20:55] <ali1234> it does, 3G uses even more...
[20:55] <brobostigon> ouch. :(
[20:56] <brobostigon> ali1234: i think i might need to carry a hydrogen fuel cell around with me soon, to power my phone.
[20:56] <HazRPG> its too cloudy to see the ISS :(
[20:57] <HazRPG> where I am
[20:57] <HazRPG> :(
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: piezo generators on your joints :)
[20:57] <ali1234> you could just get a normal phone
[20:57] <cbx33> hey - good evening peeps
[20:57] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting idea, :)
[20:57] <ali1234> instead of fancy android stuff
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: a what?
[20:58] <hewbass> brobostigan: older wifi chipsets/softwares were power hungry. Bear in mind with wifi, you are generally pretty close to the basestation, and the phone's firmware will not be so aggressive about maintaining a connection. If you get bad/no tower reception when set to 3G you might notice your phone getting warmer to the hand as it ramps up power to the amplifiers to try and hold a signal...
[20:58] <caulkz> sorry guys, wrong channel :/
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> my phone only gets hot when I use its CPU
[20:59] <HazRPG> hewbass: what settings do you have on evolution to see if I can recreate this problem?
[20:59] <brobostigon> hewbass: i am getting about a 50% 3g signal here, so it isnt bad, but could be better, i have noticed much heat yet,
[21:00] <hewbass> MartijnVds: you play too many video games on it? :)
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> hewbass: no, but sometimes the web browser goes mad and when I check it has 30 tabs open
[21:00]  * brobostigon has quake on his once.
[21:00] <brobostigon> had*
[21:00] <hewbass> brobostigan: my phone used to warm my pocket, deep in our office building when it could not get a signal...
[21:01] <brobostigon> hewbass: wow, not good.
[21:01] <hewbass> HazRPG: the only setting I changed was to set the receive protocol to IMAP+ and turn on idle...
[21:01] <hewbass> Better go... got chores to do. G'night everyone!
[21:02] <brobostigon> hewbass: i think the next few days, i will do power measuremets, with background data off and all that, wirth only k9 on pushretrieval, and see how it behaves.
[21:02] <brobostigon> ok, ohwell.
[21:02] <brobostigon> washing up, here we come, :(
[21:03] <brobostigon> brb.
[21:18] <brobostigon> washing up done,
[21:18] <brobostigon> back pain though,
[21:19] <HazRPG> Hmm, I just wondered... do we not have like an ubuntu-uk calendar?
[21:19] <HazRPG> like a shared google maps one or something
[21:19] <brobostigon> HazRPG: tht is a good idea, :)
[21:19] <HazRPG> for having meeting dates, meet-ups, etc
[21:20] <brobostigon> yes, :)
[21:20] <HazRPG> would be nice, since we could set our phones, widgets, whatever we use for keeping track of stuff, to all be in sync :)
[21:20] <brobostigon> :)
[21:20] <HazRPG> Would be awesome right?
[21:21] <HazRPG> I mean, podcast release dates, live dates for podcast, etc could even be put on there, etc :)
[21:21] <brobostigon> yes,
[21:21] <HazRPG> since those are things I've started to put in anyways
[21:22] <brobostigon> HazRPG: we have an ubuntu-cymru one, and a unity-coders one, so,
[21:22] <HazRPG> we do?
[21:23] <brobostigon> HazRPG: we as in, some of the other groups i work with,
[21:23] <HazRPG> I was thinking just a general ubuntu-uk stuff, something we all mainly use - or dates we'd like to know about, etc
[21:23] <popey> we do
[21:23] <HazRPG> popey: do we?
[21:24] <popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk/events
[21:24] <popey> ical link is there too
[21:24] <popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/ubuntu-uk/ical/
[21:24] <HazRPG> Ah, that's for meet ups, is there not one for meetings?
[21:24] <popey> we can add meetings to that too
[21:24] <HazRPG> popey: yeah I noticed ;)
[21:25] <HazRPG> Maybe eeven the quiz :)
[21:25] <HazRPG> when a date gets decided on :)
[21:26] <popey> yup
[21:26] <HazRPG> popey: awesome, would be great if ya did :)
[21:26] <brobostigon> the ical seems to work with google calendar,
[21:26] <HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
[21:28] <HazRPG> popey: oh heh, just realised that page is /sort of/ tied in via the LoCo Directory link
[21:28] <HazRPG> popey: Might be worth having the events link as a tab at the top :)
[21:29] <HazRPG> Ah, there is a meeting one too
[21:32] <popey> :)
[21:33] <HazRPG> ah has hewbass left?
[21:33] <HazRPG> he did
[21:33] <HazRPG> can't seem to recreate his problem :(
[21:33] <brobostigon> the wake usage, on my htc dream, is lower with 3g on, weird,
[21:33] <HazRPG> brobostigon: that is strange
[21:33] <brobostigon> 1.5% roughtly.
[21:34] <brobostigon> by*
[21:35] <brobostigon> k9 doesnt seem to be picking up emails, so push'ing isnt working.
[21:36] <brobostigon> something is wrong, me thinks,
[21:36] <danfish> I had an HTC Dream until sone number 2 dropped it in a glass of water - after that the Dream died.....
[21:37] <HazRPG> popey: guessing the events category is just blog posts correct?
[21:37] <brobostigon> :(
[21:38] <danfish> brobostigon: switch to periodic checking - will save battery life and at the end of the day, do you need to be instantly contactable?
[21:38] <brobostigon> danfish: my three gadgets, my htc dream, my n800, and my eeepc, :)
[21:38] <HazRPG> oh wow, just realised the podcast is live!
[21:38] <brobostigon> danfish: thats a good point, yes.
[21:39] <brobostigon> danfish: however one of the joys of imap, isnt it,that emails can come through instntaniously.
[21:40] <danfish> brobostigon: true. I can't remember, but a podcast a bit ago talked about living online 'asynchronously vs synchronously.
[21:40] <HazRPG> oh wait, no it isn't - that was an old post
[21:40] <HazRPG> heh
[21:40] <danfish> can't remeber which podcast tho'
[21:41] <brobostigon> danfish: you arte right though, i have no urgency to be contabtable, within an 30mins,maybe.
[21:41] <Ng> andylockran: wat
[21:42] <jpds> Ng: s/t$/s/
[21:42] <Ng> andylockran: were you wondering about Terminator on OSX? It is possible. I've never tried the fink method, but I did install it with MacPorts (which means building gtk and gcc and all sorts of things), but overall I'd say the user experience is kinda disappointing on the different OS and even though I don't like it as much, iTerm2 seems better
[21:43] <Ng> jpds: danke :)
[21:43] <jpds> Ng: langsam, aber sicher.
[21:51] <brobostigon> danfish: i will try polling every 30mins,
[22:04] <andylockran> Ng: just installing it via the fink method at the moment
[22:11] <andylockran> what's new with you guys?
[22:14] <ali1234> "Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads of longer than 15 minutes." what?
[22:14] <ali1234> i thought that was only for youtube partners?
[22:15] <hamitron> you have stalked youtube for long enough, so it has given in and "wants" you?
[22:15] <ali1234> i have enough trouble just uploading a couple of minute videos
[22:16] <hamitron> :)
[22:17] <ali1234> don't think i could actually have the patience to upload 15 minute long videos
[22:17] <ali1234> and it looks like my ogv broke it
[22:17] <ali1234> maybe it will work when its finished
[22:17] <ali1234> nope
[22:17] <ali1234> well, so, pitivi default settings don't work on youtube, this is bad
[22:19] <ali1234> let's try vp8 then
[22:22] <dogmatic69_> how do i cat a file so it keeps streaming
[22:22] <dogmatic69_> forgot how i was doing it before
[22:22] <hamitron> tail
[22:22]  * dogmatic69_ facepalm
[22:22] <dogmatic69_> thanks
[22:54] <ali1234> does anyone know how to encode vp8 video that does not look like a bad impressionist watercolour?
[23:03] <ali1234> giving dirac a go... quality is decent
[23:05] <ali1234> ok, youtube doesn't even try to play dirac
[23:09] <cbx33> right guess I'd better go to sleep
[23:12] <brobostigon> good night everyone.sleep well.
[23:19] <AlanBell> Evening all
[23:20] <AlanBell> I met RMS
[23:20] <AlanBell> RMS met me
[23:21] <daftykins> i see
[23:22] <AlanBell> And I had a drink that contained bananas
[23:23] <daftykins> heh
[23:24] <cbx33> sounds like a surreal evening
[23:24] <caulkz> hmm, would ubuntu give its name to a canned beer product?? lol
[23:24] <directhex> AlanBell, did you feel enlightened as he stood before you, big magnetic halo glowing?
[23:24] <daftykins> that's been around for a while as far as i know
[23:24] <zleap> march 30th document freedom day
[23:24] <directhex> there's a fairtrade cola under the name ubuntu
[23:24] <daftykins> as 'ubuntu' is a philosophy :>
[23:24] <directhex> nothing to do with the linux
[23:24] <andylockran> yeah
[23:24]  * daftykins pats directhex 
[23:25] <daftykins> hope you're well hexy!
[23:25] <caulkz> Ubuntu beer - 100pc beer 0pc crap lol
[23:25] <andylockran> AlanBell: was that up in Sheffers?
[23:25] <AlanBell> In london
[23:26] <AlanBell> He told us all that Mono is the way of the future
[23:27] <daftykins> RMS talking about Mono, i'm seeing a musical pattern here
[23:29] <directhex> mono's old hat. the cool kids are all using quadrophonic these days
[23:30] <daftykins> in qua...qua...qua... QUADRAPHONIOOOOOOO
[23:30] <daftykins> as the present day 3D adverts go.
[23:31] <ali1234> my synthesizer has 8 voice polyphony
[23:32] <ali1234> unfortunately each one is only 2 bit
[23:32] <ali1234> so it sounds terrible
[23:34] <ali1234> unfortunately youtube rejected all the nice codecs
[23:34] <ali1234> so i'm onto ffmpeg now
[23:36] <ali1234> hmm... well, that encoded an awful lot faster than the ogv
[23:36] <daftykins> does that mean it looks like a pencil sketch now? :D
[23:38] <ali1234> like, 100x faster
[23:38] <ali1234> does it use vdpau or something? (is that even possible?)
[23:38] <ali1234> no, it looks significantly better than the vp8 (which came out at 1.9MB) and about the same as the theora (29MB) - and it's 11MB
[23:38] <ali1234> but the video is basically a still image anyway
[23:39] <ali1234> aaaaand. it actually worked too
[23:40] <ali1234> lol youtube recognizes the music even though it's horribly mangled
[23:49] <daftykins> ali1234: what did you make ffmpeg spit out then?
[23:50] <ali1234> dunno. mp4?
[23:50] <ali1234> i'm doing it all through the pitivi UI so it's a bit hard to know what it is really doing
[23:53] <daftykins> ah
[23:57] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbG0bqKzF9o