| micahg | mr_pouit: can I pull in the new xfce4-mixer? | 04:10 |
|---|---|---|
| mr_pouit | micahg: feel free to do it | 06:37 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: thanks, will do later this week | 06:37 |
| mr_pouit | (it's not really bugfix only, so I've been too lazy because of the possible paper work) | 06:37 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: I think we want it though, right? | 06:37 |
| micahg | I'm guessing we're less likely to have issues with teh 4.8 mixer than the 4.6 one | 06:38 |
| mr_pouit | We already ship the most important bugfixes as patches | 06:40 |
| mr_pouit | but the libxfce4ui port might be interesting (although we won't get rid of libxfcegui4 anytime soon) | 06:41 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: I actually don't have the xfce4-mixer anymore after I upgraded to natty, figured being 4.6.x might be part of the reason | 06:41 |
| * micahg wants to get rid of the gnome-media stuff | 06:41 | |
| mr_pouit | micahg: mmh, what do you mean? | 06:42 |
| micahg | gnome-media applets replaced xfce4-mixer in my panel on upgrade | 06:43 |
| micahg | also, I haven't been able to get nm-applet back on the panel | 06:43 |
| micahg | I couldn't see the session applet until I removed the indicator applet | 06:43 |
| mr_pouit | A lot of useless things are probably pulled in on upgrades :/ | 06:46 |
| mr_pouit | e.g. gnome-media, gnome-system-monitor, and indicator-appmenu | 06:46 |
| mr_pouit | (xfce4-mixer should still be installable though, even if it's not in the default panel config) | 06:48 |
| === ubott2 is now known as ubottu | ||
| === ochosi_ is now known as ochosi | ||
| charlie-tca | Good morning | 15:34 |
| micahg | good morning | 15:35 |
| micahg | I found something else that should go in the launcher, pidgin :) | 15:35 |
| * micahg is on naowtty n | 15:35 | |
| micahg | *natty now | 15:35 |
| charlie-tca | pidgin is in the indicator panel, you don't need a launcher to start it | 15:36 |
| charlie-tca | just click the envelope in the panel | 15:36 |
| micahg | that's thunderbird | 15:36 |
| charlie-tca | no, the top panel has an envelope that is the indicators, it should start pidgin there | 15:37 |
| * micahg thinks he got rid of that | 15:38 | |
| charlie-tca | heh | 15:38 |
| charlie-tca | Well, that should start pidgin for you, though. lol | 15:39 |
| charlie-tca | The good thing is you can drag and drop a launcher into the panel | 15:40 |
| micahg | indicators were broke on the first load, maybe I'll try them again tomorrow (have work to do today :)) | 15:42 |
| charlie-tca | Just add pidgin to the launcher panel. I never use it, myself. | 15:42 |
| ochosi | hey charlie-tca | 15:43 |
| charlie-tca | Hello, ochosi | 15:43 |
| ochosi | i fixed a few problems in greybird over the weekend, and there was also one more thing i wanted to propose | 15:43 |
| ochosi | at first i wanted to make the indicator-menus fit the panel-color (atm they are bright like all other menus) | 15:44 |
| ochosi | and then i realized that if i make them dark, it seems inconsistent with the app-menu and the session-menu | 15:45 |
| charlie-tca | Aren't they a menu, too? | 15:45 |
| ochosi | yeah, but that's the thing: | 15:45 |
| ochosi | appmenu and session-menu are generic gtk-menus, so you can't theme them directly without theming all the other menus as well | 15:45 |
| ochosi | so basically i went ahead and tried that | 15:45 |
| ochosi | in fact i think it makes the menus in all applications stand out a little more, they're more visible | 15:46 |
| ochosi | but you could also argue that a bright menubar with a dark menu looks inconsistent | 15:46 |
| ochosi | anyhow, i think it'd be best if you gave it a try yourself | 15:46 |
| charlie-tca | okay, where do I grab it? | 15:47 |
| ochosi | btw, there are no applications that have troubles with this, i fixed ooo, firefox etc. and all of them are ok | 15:47 |
| ochosi | charlie-tca: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/archives/master | 15:47 |
| ochosi | it's rather easy to switch the dark menus on and off | 15:48 |
| ochosi | i can comment the code in a way that a user can quickly switch back to bright/dark menus (whatever we decide for in the end) | 15:48 |
| charlie-tca | Original menus are light/medium grey? | 15:48 |
| ochosi | yeah, the original menus are grey | 15:48 |
| ochosi | they look consistent, but they don't stand out from the rest of the window very much | 15:48 |
| ochosi | i think that's the biggest gain | 15:48 |
| charlie-tca | okay, I just realized I have no menus | 15:49 |
| ochosi | and of course the panel-menus look a lot more consistent now | 15:49 |
| ochosi | you don't? | 15:49 |
| ochosi | no xfce4-appmenu? | 15:49 |
| ochosi | in thunar there also should be menus | 15:49 |
| charlie-tca | no, I upgraded to natty before alpha1. When Xfce4.8 came along, the application menu was broken | 15:50 |
| ochosi | right | 15:50 |
| ochosi | well, most other apps should have menus too | 15:50 |
| ochosi | firefox, thunar etc | 15:50 |
| charlie-tca | I never added it to the panel | 15:50 |
| ochosi | even if you don't you'll see the difference in the session-menu | 15:50 |
| ochosi | and the indicators | 15:50 |
| charlie-tca | I have no indicators, either | 15:51 |
| ochosi | right :) | 15:51 |
| charlie-tca | I don't even have the right panels | 15:51 |
| ochosi | well, nvm | 15:51 |
| charlie-tca | it's okay, I have the greybird theme at least | 15:51 |
| charlie-tca | the panels are the right colors | 15:51 |
| ochosi | yeah | 15:52 |
| charlie-tca | I just had it all set up, and it works real good for me | 15:52 |
| ochosi | good to hear | 15:52 |
| ochosi | well check out how it works with the latest greybird for you and let me know | 15:52 |
| charlie-tca | that's why I have to install from the images every day or two | 15:52 |
| charlie-tca | That's when I see the real changes we made | 15:53 |
| ochosi | mmh | 15:53 |
| ochosi | yeah the greybird changes i just talked about haven't been pushed to xubuntu yet, they're only in git | 15:53 |
| ochosi | ok, i'll be back later | 15:54 |
| charlie-tca | Got the download, will put it all in themes | 15:54 |
| charlie-tca | micahg: can you take a look at the latest theme? | 16:01 |
| charlie-tca | I like it | 16:01 |
| charlie-tca | a lot | 16:02 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: maybe this evening | 16:02 |
| charlie-tca | okay, thanks | 16:02 |
| charlie-tca | dictionary plugin works good on panel, verve plugin - text typed matches the color of the background, and is not visible; xfce4-timer-plugin - scale is black, can not see the bar graph move | 16:07 |
| charlie-tca | well, erased the wrong drive on my test install today; got to set a new install for the grandkids again | 16:22 |
| micahg | indicator plugin + nm-applet is broke | 16:23 |
| charlie-tca | unity auto login is broken too | 16:24 |
| charlie-tca | what did we break? | 16:24 |
| charlie-tca | you said you removed that indicator thing | 16:25 |
| micahg | yep, when I add it back, nm-applet goes away | 16:25 |
| micahg | or rather is hidden | 16:25 |
| micahg | and I can't get it back unless I restart the panel | 16:25 |
| charlie-tca | oh, yeah, it hides. Click where it should be, it should still work | 16:26 |
| charlie-tca | i forgot that one | 16:26 |
| micahg | items list doesn't show it | 16:27 |
| charlie-tca | should still be on the panel, maybe as a blank space | 16:27 |
| micahg | items should show everything in the panel | 16:28 |
| micahg | and no, I can't click it | 16:28 |
| charlie-tca | hm, unity is nice, but very hard for new users to find anything that is not already in the launcher panel | 16:28 |
| ochosi | micahg: no, items list doesn't show anything inside the indicator applet | 16:28 |
| micahg | ah, hmm | 16:28 |
| ochosi | micahg: are you using a vertical or a horizontal panel? | 16:28 |
| * micahg tries adding back the indicator applet to see if nm-applet appears | 16:29 | |
| micahg | horizontal | 16:29 |
| ochosi | micahg: afaik indicators can only be used in a horizontal panel | 16:29 |
| ochosi | k | 16:29 |
| ochosi | do a "xfce4-panel --restart" after adding the indicator plugin | 16:29 |
| mr_pouit | yeah, the current callback for xfce4-indicator-plugin in orientation-changed does nothing =] | 16:30 |
| ochosi | hehe, in fact i read the code a while ago and was wondering why there was code for it that does nothing :) | 16:30 |
| micahg | indicator-plugin has no width | 16:30 |
| charlie-tca | Isn't horizontal only going to lead to a lot of user issues? | 16:30 |
| ochosi | charlie-tca: how do you mean? | 16:31 |
| ochosi | charlie-tca: both our panels are horizontal atm and afaik the xubuntu/ubuntu panels always have been (without unity) | 16:31 |
| mr_pouit | micahg: feel free to create a patch, I already heavily patched it to make it work | 16:32 |
| micahg | the dock works vertical | 16:32 |
| mr_pouit | (I sent them upstream too) | 16:32 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: that doesn't sound good :-/ | 16:32 |
| mr_pouit | well, it's definitely not cool, but many panel plugins work badly with vertical panels | 16:33 |
| ochosi | i have to say vertical panel has improved a lot since 4.6 | 16:33 |
| ochosi | e.g. the window-buttons | 16:33 |
| micahg | well, I'm just worried about the indicator plugin horizontal ATM | 16:33 |
| ochosi | micahg: you mean the indicators work vertically but not horizontally? | 16:34 |
| charlie-tca | yes, we default to horizontal, but users can make them vertical. If a default plugin fails then, we did that to them | 16:34 |
| micahg | ochosi: no, they don't work horizontally on the top panel (I haven't tried vertically) | 16:34 |
| ochosi | charlie-tca: not sure that if a user changes something about the config we provide him with it's the best phrasing to say "we did that to them", because even technically they did it to themselves | 16:35 |
| ochosi | charlie-tca: also, we can't fix everything that doesn't work upstream (even though mr_pouit does a hell of a job trying ;) ) | 16:35 |
| charlie-tca | It is our position to provide the best possible user experience. We don't invalidate a bug because a user changed something. and we should not be telling the user, you moved something, so you broke it | 16:36 |
| * micahg will be uploading a new version of crashtastic midori tonight | 16:36 | |
| ochosi | micahg: nice, looking forward to testing midori again | 16:37 |
| mr_pouit | micahg: huhu, I thought it had improved | 16:37 |
| charlie-tca | By using the indicator applet, we created the defaults. To tell them they broke it by moving the panel is werong | 16:37 |
| charlie-tca | s/werong/wrong | 16:37 |
| micahg | 0.3.0 is horrible | 16:37 |
| * micahg is hoping 0.3.2 is better (paperwork done :)) | 16:37 | |
| ochosi | charlie-tca: well, i didn't mean the bug is invalid, but i thought we already try to provide the best user experience by using the panel config we developed over the last months | 16:38 |
| * micahg is notorious for filing lots of FFes | 16:38 | |
| charlie-tca | well, we are. but did we know the indicator applet has to stay horizontal? | 16:39 |
| charlie-tca | It's like the session menu bug. I have not had a failure since I removed that thing | 16:40 |
| ochosi | hm, i wasn't consciously thinking of it, but i experienced it before | 16:40 |
| charlie-tca | Lack of information makes for bad decisions, sometimes | 16:40 |
| * ochosi hasn't experienced any session-menu probs lately | 16:40 | |
| charlie-tca | I will say we seem to be making a better user experience that Unity is, right now | 16:41 |
| charlie-tca | I think removing the menus is a bad thing for Ubuntu. It is not easy for the new user to find anything, including how to add new users | 16:42 |
| micahg | especially if the search doesn't work :-/ | 16:42 |
| charlie-tca | even if it does, if you came from windows, what would you search for? | 16:43 |
| charlie-tca | I just locked up Ubuntu completely, trying to set the screensaver | 16:43 |
| mr_pouit | I'll say it, one last time: the "logout-to-gdm-instead-of-reboot" is not specific to xfsm-logout-plugin... | 16:43 |
| charlie-tca | mr_pouit: I keep hearing that, but not using session menu solved it here, on three systems | 16:44 |
| mr_pouit | well, good for you | 16:44 |
| mr_pouit | for me, using applications > logout, I always return to gdm | 16:44 |
| charlie-tca | OTOH, none were virtual machines | 16:45 |
| charlie-tca | remove session menu, add Action Buttons, first restart goes to gdm, then it works | 16:45 |
| charlie-tca | As long as session menu is in the panel, it fails | 16:45 |
| * micahg had that happen in a non-virtual machine as well | 16:48 | |
| ochosi | charlie-tca: what do you think of the new greybird-menus? | 16:55 |
| knome | charlie-tca, the slideshow is pending on your opinion on the greybird menus. can you give one? | 17:02 |
| charlie-tca | ochosi: I like it, a lot | 17:10 |
| charlie-tca | It does show up much better | 17:10 |
| ochosi | ok cool :) | 17:10 |
| ochosi | happy to hear that | 17:10 |
| ochosi | as stated above i tested it in natty and maverick with the known troublemaker-apps like firefox and libreoffice and it all seems to work great | 17:11 |
| charlie-tca | wonderful! They really are more visible, and I don't think the contrast is bad | 17:12 |
| ochosi | yeah, the contrast is the same as in the panel | 17:12 |
| ochosi | so it should work ok for dark and bright icons | 17:12 |
| ochosi | and i also tried to make the text very readable | 17:12 |
| charlie-tca | knome: explain? | 17:12 |
| charlie-tca | what about greybird menus? | 17:12 |
| ochosi | he meant that the menus will show up in the screenshots for the slideshow and i'm about to do them ;) | 17:13 |
| ochosi | will or might show up | 17:13 |
| charlie-tca | It would be good to showcase them | 17:13 |
| ochosi | yes, that's what i thought | 17:13 |
| ochosi | especially since we'll show the application menu | 17:13 |
| knome | :) | 17:15 |
| knome | no problem then | 17:15 |
| charlie-tca | and we have Oneiric Ocelot coming next! | 17:18 |
| charlie-tca | oneiric is pronounced own-eye-rick | 17:20 |
| ochosi | yeah, that'll definitely be harder for non-native speakers than "natty" or "maverick" | 17:20 |
| charlie-tca | um, it is not really all that common for native speakers | 17:21 |
| ochosi | hm yeah, i guessed so :) | 17:21 |
| ochosi | it sounds a bit obscure | 17:21 |
| ochosi | as in: obscure ocelot | 17:21 |
| charlie-tca | http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/audio/lunaWAV/O01/O0101300.wav | 17:22 |
| charlie-tca | is the official pronunciation | 17:22 |
| charlie-tca | It just hurts my eyes to say it... :-( | 17:22 |
| micahg | oh, is lightdm not provided on upgrades? | 20:45 |
| micahg | and where should I file a missing menu category icon bug under? | 20:45 |
| charlie-tca | lightdm is in the repository, but we are not using it yet | 20:46 |
| charlie-tca | which category is missing the icon? | 20:46 |
| micahg | oh, ok | 20:46 |
| micahg | Education | 20:46 |
| Sysi | any plans about 4.8 lucid ppa? | 20:47 |
| charlie-tca | not yet, Sysi | 20:47 |
| Sysi | http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=5712 koshi says there are some problems, i'm gonna try if it works self-compiled | 20:48 |
| charlie-tca | micahg: I am looking | 20:48 |
| mr_pouit | micahg: elementary-icon-theme, but upstream is on lp as well, so you might want to check their bzr branch before reporting | 20:49 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: ok, thanks | 20:50 |
| micahg | charlie-tca: where's the Firefox menu for you? in the panel or in Firefox? | 20:56 |
| charlie-tca | firefox | 20:56 |
| charlie-tca | Tell me we have not followed ubuntu's lead and moved them to the panel, please. | 20:57 |
| charlie-tca | Unity is about the hardest, least accessible thing I have tried yet | 20:57 |
| micahg | the xfce4-indicator-plugin is claiming it supports it, so I lost my menus | 20:58 |
| mr_pouit | remove indicator-appmenu | 20:59 |
| micahg | ugh, then I can't test unity :-/ | 20:59 |
| micahg | that's probably what's killing it though | 21:00 |
| mr_pouit | I've a work-in-progress patch to blacklist it from xfce4-indicator-plugin if you want to test | 21:00 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: sure | 21:00 |
| micahg | PPA or patch | 21:00 |
| charlie-tca | right now, to use unity requires a hardware keyboard and mouse | 21:00 |
| mr_pouit | micahg: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/xfce4-indicator-plugin/debian-changes-0.2.0-0ubuntu3 | 21:01 |
| charlie-tca | Those who can not use the keyboard are screwed | 21:01 |
| mr_pouit | micahg: and the plugin config is http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/xfce4-indicator-plugin/indicator-5.rc (for the default config, you can put it in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel or in $HOME/.config/xfce4/panel/) | 21:02 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: that version appears to be in natty | 21:02 |
| mr_pouit | yep, that's a quick hack | 21:03 |
| mr_pouit | (I didn't bump the version locally) | 21:04 |
| micahg | k, thanks | 21:04 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: didn't seem to work, I restarted the panel after I rebuilt with it | 21:14 |
| mr_pouit | micahg: does the plugin number of the config file match yours? | 21:18 |
| mr_pouit | (in the default xubuntu config, indicator is the 5th plugin, but for you it might be different) | 21:18 |
| mr_pouit | so you have to change the filename (indicator-XX.rc) | 21:18 |
| micahg | where do I find this info? | 21:19 |
| micahg | is this the list in the panel prefs? | 21:19 |
| mr_pouit | usually, grep indicator ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml | 21:19 |
| mr_pouit | yeah, or in the prefs | 21:19 |
| mr_pouit | (the tooltip will give you the internal name) | 21:20 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: it works, now the trick must be to get the numbers aligned :), it's 6 fo rme | 21:22 |
| micahg | and now it's beautiful :) | 21:22 |
| mr_pouit | thanks for alpha testing ;-) | 21:25 |
| micahg | no problem, I'm happy to have nm-applet working :) | 21:25 |
| * micahg loves fixes that can be applies in under 5 minutes :) | 21:26 | |
| micahg | *applied | 21:26 |
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