[01:55] <greg-g> hiya all. I was wondering if I could get my LoCo channel logged on irclogs.ubuntu.com
[01:55] <greg-g> my loco channel == #ubuntu-us-mi, of which I am an op and the team admin on LP
[01:56] <m4v> greg-g: you need to request ubuntulog with an email to rc@ubuntu.com
[01:57] <m4v> greg-g: er, sorry rt@ubuntu.com
[02:00] <greg-g> oh, great
[02:01] <greg-g> sorry, just bad experiences with rt@ubuntu ;)
[02:14] <nhandler> greg-g: They are usually fairly responsive to these emails. If they don't respond in a timely manner, a gentle ping in #canonical-sysadmin can sometimes ehelp
[02:23] <greg-g> nhandler: oh hey! aweseome, thanks man.
[03:23] <highvoltage> greg-g: rt has also become a lot better over the last few months
[09:02] <RocketLauncher> I'm banned from #ubuntu and I don't know why. I only go there when I need help and I don't usually need it.
[09:03] <popey> RocketLauncher: join #ubuntu-ops
[09:04] <vish> RocketLauncher: #ubuntu-ops is the right place for that problem
[09:12] <DJones> I can guess the reason for the ban just looking at the ident
[09:12] <Tm_T> yup
[11:37] <X3lectric> whee can one bring forward a compliant against user that broke CoC and used profane language
[11:37] <X3lectric> amongst other infractions
[11:40] <vish> X3lectric: yup, if its on one of the core channels then  #ubuntu-ops is the place to discuss it.. else here.
[11:42] <X3lectric> yes it was #ubuntu-motu
[11:42] <X3lectric> user was https://launchpad.net/~directhex
[11:43] <popey> when did this happen? I'm in that channel and can't see the issue
[11:43] <X3lectric> not now
[11:43] <X3lectric> last night
[11:43] <X3lectric> around midnight gmt
[11:43] <popey> ah, i see
[11:43] <vish> X3lectric: that channel is logged, so maybe look at the logs and mention the time.
[11:44] <X3lectric> k wheres the logs and ill tell you
[11:44] <vish> X3lectric:  the topic has the link
[11:45] <vish> this channel's topic..
[11:45] <X3lectric> durh lol
[11:45]  * popey is looking at it
[11:45] <Tm_T> interesting discussion there
[11:48] <popey> X3lectric: seems like directhex was trying to help you at the start but you didn't answer his questions for more information
[11:48] <popey> repeatedly
[11:48] <popey> thus leading to his frustration
[11:49] <X3lectric> hif you look there where more people involved in conversation
[11:49] <popey> yup
[11:49] <popey> I saw
[11:49] <popey> they seemed to start off by answering your questions and asking for more detail
[11:49] <X3lectric> I cant keep up with everyone
[11:49] <X3lectric> [01:00] <directhex> X3lectric, NO IT FUCKING ISN'T
[11:49] <popey> he asked the same question at least 3 times
[11:50] <X3lectric> that is not warranted in any way
[11:50] <popey> thats one line of the conversation
[11:50] <X3lectric> ok so I take it that can just go off and use progfanity ?
[11:51] <X3lectric> i dont think thats what the CoC says
[11:51] <popey> again, you were asked 3 times, he even highlighted your nick to make it easy for you to see
[11:52] <tsimpson> the CoC says nothing about using profanity, only how we interact with each other
[11:52] <popey> yet you refused to answer the questions or pastebin the necessary files to make it easier for _him_ to help _you.
[11:52] <X3lectric> ok so that excuses him from whatever?
[11:52] <tsimpson> although we discourage in the development channels, it's no against the CoC
[11:52] <X3lectric> i didnt refuse I just cant keep up
[11:52] <popey> he highlighted your nick 3 times
[11:53] <X3lectric> and I dont see highlights
[11:53] <popey> you might want to configure your irc client to show highlights
[11:53] <popey> we can probably help you with that.
[11:53] <popey> which would reduce this frustration in the future
[11:53] <Fuchs> you are using mIRC, it should be able to do both backlog and highlights. If you used a different client back then, you might want to configure that one.
[11:54] <X3lectric> ok but Im disabled and suffer from sleep deprivation and have quite a lot of troublle concentrating doing trvial stuff
[11:54] <X3lectric> what it seems Im hearing is that hes justified to use profanity just because and all is well
[11:55] <X3lectric> Im sorry to say Im quite disapointed
[11:55] <popey> thats not what I said
[11:56] <Tm_T> my opinion is this: there's no excuse for bad behaviour
[11:56] <X3lectric> nothing I did or din not do justifies that action
[11:56] <X3lectric> Tm_T: indeed
[11:56] <Tm_T> X3lectric: that comes to you too, he did ask clearly, you refused to answer
[11:57] <Tm_T> if you feel there's too much for you to handle, say it, and others will try to slow down
[11:57] <Tm_T> but straight ignoring the attempts to help you is not polite
[11:57] <tsimpson> profanity is not forbidden the CoC, it would depend on how it was used
[11:57] <Tm_T> that
[11:57] <popey> another option is the ubuntu motu mailing list, if IRC moves too fast for you
[11:58] <Tm_T> so ye, I would ask directhex to keep his language cleaner, but that's all
[11:58] <X3lectric> ?
[11:59] <X3lectric> so whos actually in charge of this?
[11:59] <Tm_T> X3lectric: did you try to talk to him and sort this out?
[12:00] <X3lectric> asked him to take a chill pill
[12:00] <popey> I also notice that your issue is currently being discussed in #ubuntu-motu
[12:00] <popey> X3lectric: I find that's not helpful when someone is frustrated.
[12:00] <X3lectric> either way his action are not excusable
[12:00] <popey> I personally think you're blowing this out of all proportion
[12:00] <Tm_T> X3lectric: neither is yours
[12:00] <X3lectric> er I was frustrated
[12:00] <popey> so was he
[12:01] <popey> so you both win
[12:01] <popey> or lose :)
[12:01] <X3lectric> i didnt do anything wrong
[12:01] <popey> ok, this is going nowhere
[12:01] <X3lectric> i didnt provoke
[12:01] <X3lectric> I dindt ask for any of that
[12:02] <vish> X3lectric: at times, its just better to forget and forgive.. :) (not defending his actions though) but is it worth your time to spend on his actions?
[12:03] <X3lectric> sigh
[12:03] <X3lectric> i see whats happening here
[12:04] <popey> I honestly don't think you do.
[12:04] <X3lectric> its about as fair as akick in the teeth
[12:04] <popey> really
[12:04] <popey> I mean, really?
[12:04] <X3lectric> thats how it feels
[12:04] <popey> he said one line that you're massively offended by and you're now taking up the time of 3 other people to talk about this?
[12:04] <popey> is it _really_ worth it?
[12:04] <X3lectric> yes
[12:05] <popey> (Hint: no)
[12:05] <popey> move on, get over it and get back to doing good stuff with ubuntu
[12:05] <tsimpson> your complaint was that is was a violation of the CoC, but it's not
[12:05] <X3lectric> never mind thx
[12:06] <tsimpson> next times someone uses that language talking to you, simply ask them to respect that you don't like it
[12:06] <X3lectric> well if its this the way it gets handled Ill return in kind, maybe thats better
[12:07] <popey> I am happy to have a chat with Jo and ask him to step away from the keyboard next time he gets frustrated.
[12:07] <X3lectric> cause I have to keep myself in check despite igorant whatsits
[12:07] <popey> would that help?
[12:07] <X3lectric> yes pls
[12:07] <popey> ok, will do.
[12:08] <X3lectric> thats all anyone should do anywhre, getting too much go away and chill out
[12:08] <popey> I agree.
[12:09] <X3lectric> otherwise it can become a bit of ww3
[12:10] <popey> is that everything?
[12:10] <popey> your original complaint was profane language "amongst other infractions", what other infractions did you have in mind?
[12:12] <X3lectric> thats not for me to judge
[12:12] <popey> eh?
[12:12] <popey> you brought it up
[12:12] <popey> if there's other stuff we should know about, do let us know.
[12:13] <X3lectric> well its all CoC related after re-reading it I didt find any justification for his agressive no catalictic approach
[12:14] <popey> ok, so thats the specific instance we're talking about, there's no others outside the conversation you have highlighted?
[12:14] <popey> I need to step away from my desk for a moment
[12:14] <X3lectric> thats ok thx I need to go relax this is way too stressful
[12:15] <X3lectric> by this I mean that guys actions
[12:16] <X3lectric> thx again at leats I hope he gets asked to take a look at whats going on and that people have limitations too a bombardemnt of information
[12:16] <X3lectric> bye now
[12:19]  * popey returns
[12:19] <popey> with a swoooooooooooooooooosh!
[12:20] <elky> he, erm, did well to follow the conversation here.
[12:32] <vish> tsimpson: wouldnt the "be respectful" section of CoC apply ? it was clearly not just a result of over-joy ;)
[12:32] <vish> (if it is a constant issue)
[12:33] <tsimpson> vish: if they asked the other person not to use the language, and the other person refused, then it would probably apply there
[12:34] <tsimpson> "bad language" is not inherently disrespectful
[12:34] <vish> yea, no one in the channel seemed to object, micahg is always quick with the !ohmy
[12:35] <popey> it is, after all, just a word
[12:35] <popey> and it wasn't directed at him
[12:35] <tsimpson> if you have an issue with someone using certain words when speaking to you, the *first* thing you should do is talk to *them* about it
[12:35] <popey> it wasnt "You're a fucking idiot", which probably would be somewhat more of a concern :)
[12:38] <nigelb> these almost grey areas are confusing.
[12:39] <popey> for whom?
[12:41] <nigelb> I'll rephrase
[12:41] <nigelb> I'm confused by the almost grey areas :D
[12:42] <tsimpson> it's not supposed to be a legal document defining in detail each term used in the document
[12:42] <tsimpson> some common sense and interpretation is required ;)
[12:42] <popey> also, we're talking about human beings here
[12:43] <tsimpson> the first thing you should do when you think someone is going again the CoC, is talk to them about it
[12:43] <tsimpson> it's not a stick to beat people over the head with
[12:43] <tsimpson> ..most of the time
[12:43] <tsimpson> s/again/against/
[12:43]  * popey beats tsimpson over the head with his coc
[12:43] <popey> or something
[12:44]  * tsimpson backs away
[12:44]  * nigelb wonders when tsimpson said again
[12:44] <tsimpson> nigelb: "...someone is going again the CoC..."
[12:44] <nigelb> oh dear
[12:45] <nigelb> I'm going blind
[12:45] <nigelb> or something
[12:45] <nigelb> oh right. No glasses today. :\
[12:45]  * popey moves irc a little bit further away from nigelb 
[12:46]  * nigelb gets the CoC ready to beat popey over the head with.
[12:47]  * Pici blinks, and switches to another channel
[12:47] <vish> wheeeeee! netsplits!!!!! :D
[12:49] <nhandler> This isn't the first time we have had a long discussion about this. A nice blog post about this topic might prove helpful (especially if it comes from the CC)
[12:49]  * nigelb looks at popey
[12:51] <popey> not a chance
[12:52] <popey> maybe a tweet :)
[12:53] <popey>  /tweet Dear Internet, Saying the word F*** does not make you in violation of the #ubuntu Code of Conduct, Love CC.
[12:53] <popey> ^^ like that
[12:54] <vish> popey: and that tweet would probably be a bookmark for future references ;)
[12:55] <vish> bookmark for others*
[13:02] <nhandler> s/not/not necessarily/
[13:06] <popey> good mod
[13:06] <popey> any further changes welcome :)