=== jj-afk is now known as jjohansen
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
=== zul_ is now known as zul
=== debfx_ is now known as debfx
=== jjohansen is now known as jj-afk
MootBotMeeting started at 09:03. The chair is NCommander.15:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:03
* rsalveti waves15:03
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/2011031015:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/2011031015:03
NCommanderso who's here?15:03
rsalvetiI'm not15:03
NCommander[topic] Action Items15:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Items15:04
NCommander[topic] ogra to fix WI tracker15:04
MootBotNew Topic:  ogra to fix WI tracker15:04
ograhmm, havent checked it yet, but it should be fine now15:04
NCommander[topic] everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set15:05
MootBotNew Topic:  everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set15:05
ogralooks fine15:05
ograNCommander, no beta WIs for you at all ?15:06
ograeveryone else seems to show up15:06
NCommanderogra: my one spec was axed because you, me,a nd persia agreed the design was unworkable for generic subarch support15:07
ograwell, i guess you still have enough mono to do ;)15:07
NCommander[topic] Standing Items15:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Standing Items15:08
NCommander[link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html15:08
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html15:08
NCommander[link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html15:08
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html15:08
rsalvetimost my WI related to GLES are basically waiting the implementation to finish15:08
rsalvetiso no much to do15:08
rsalvetithen just remain the others15:08
rsalvetiwebkit fix is now uploaded, and should hit the archive soon15:09
rsalvetithen we can go back and use ubiquity with the slideshow15:09
NCommanderrsalveti: once we have it confirmed fixed, I'll delete the livecd-rootfs hack15:09
* ogra still cant remember what packageselection-arm-n-device-type-detection meant15:09
rsalvetiNCommander: I tested already with a preinstalled image15:10
ograerr, the Wi i have for that15:10
rsalvetiNCommander: and it worked fine, just need to wait it to build and hit the archive15:10
rsalvetiand that will take between 1 and 2 days15:10
ograpersia, i think that was yours, could you somehow brief me again offline ?15:10
NCommanderanything else on the WIs?15:11
ograi wonder if we shouldnt remove the ppa cluster15:12
ogradavidm, ^^^15:12
NCommander^- davidm15:12
ograits totally not bound to release cycle but makes us look slightly bad15:12
ograi think we're doing really great, but thanks to that spec the tracker doesnt really reflect that15:12
rsalvetiit's not something that affect the release15:13
ograyeah, thats what i mean15:13
rsalvetiit's more a launchpad feature than ubuntu, in some way15:13
NCommanderogra: maybe simply target it to O cycle?15:13
ograNCommander, right, something like that, but its davids spec and his decision15:14
ograseems he's not around so lets move15:14
ograwe can clearify that later15:14
NCommander[topic] Unity 2D Status15:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Unity 2D Status15:14
ograwill see an update before end of the week15:14
ogralots of fixes in trunk we dont have in the image/archive yet15:14
ogranothing new otherwise15:15
NCommanderanything else?15:15
ogranot from me15:15
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)15:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)15:15
ograwhere is our .38 build ?15:15
ograi thought GrueMaster approved it15:16
rsalvetino other news beside the same package from last week that GrueMaster tested15:16
davidmI pulled the PPA cluster from the timeline15:16
ogradavidm, thanks :)15:16
davidmand removed it from natty entirely15:16
GrueMasterI did.15:16
ogramove it to O15:16
davidmI did  that weeks and weeks ago15:16
rsalvetiGrueMaster reported back to cooloney, but now it'd probably be good to reply the email thread saying we want it by default15:16
ograit makes us look good from the beginning :)15:16
rsalvetiand change the boot.scr arguments, to use the DVI output15:16
ograah, right15:16
GrueMasterI did that as well (I think).15:16
ograrsalveti, how will we handle upgrades =15:17
davidmogra, it's it's still showing up let me know what I need to do to remove it entirely15:17
ograwe still have no solution for that15:17
GrueMasteremail that is.15:17
ograyes, i saw GrueMaster's mail15:17
ograi dont think there should be any blocker15:17
ograstatement was clear15:17
rsalvetino, and we could just do the switch15:17
rsalvetifor the update I believe we could just document it for now15:17
rsalvetiotherwise we would need to hack the boot args15:18
rsalvetibut the user will need to change the cable anyway15:18
ograyes, i actually did expect tim had done it after GrueMaster's mail15:18
rsalvetiyup, that's whay it may need another email requesting it15:18
ograwell, i'll use IRC ;)15:19
* ogra pinged tim15:19
ograi still would like to have a proper upgrade path though15:19
rsalvetiGrueMaster: anything to report for the kernel tests?15:19
* janimo is running the 2.6.38-1024-omap4 kernel from PPA, looks fine after a few days15:19
rsalvetiyeah, it'd be good to have15:19
ograi.e. some message from update-manager "please plug your cable into the dvi port after reboot"15:20
janimoheadless only though, mostly building workloads15:20
ograthats the least we should have15:20
rsalvetiogra: yup, that can be changed at the package itself?15:20
rsalvetilike a postinst?15:20
ograthere is a script in u-m somewhere15:20
ograwe added a warning for ARMv5 vs v6 between karmic and jaunty15:21
rsalvetiogra: ok, so should we wait this to be done before putting it as default?15:21
rsalvetiI can dig to see what was done15:21
ogradyfet was actually supposed to add a v7 warning too and never managed15:21
GrueMasterThis is only temporary though, right?15:21
ograi think that can happen hand in hand15:21
rsalvetiit shuold be15:21
ograGrueMaster, we dont know if it will be solved by release15:21
rsalvetibefore the release we want to use hdmi again15:21
rsalvetiand have a proper driver15:22
ograbut we dont have it at all yet15:22
rsalvetino, and not completely sure if TI will manage to implemente the hdmi driver15:22
rsalvetibut that's another problem15:23
ograso at least being prepared for such a warning in u-m before string freeze is needed15:23
ograwe can still drop it15:23
rsalvetiok, will look to have it15:23
ograok, kernel switch triggered, tim is building it now15:23
rsalvetiany other question for kernel?15:23
ogra(seems he missed GrueMaster's mail)15:23
rsalvetiogra: guess he was waiting the reply at the pull request email15:24
ograGrueMaster, use a <blink> tag in the subject line in the future ;)15:24
* NCommander is having chromium stability issues this morning :-(15:24
NCommander[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:24
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:24
GrueMasterInteresting.  We even discussed it on IRC.15:24
ograGrueMaster, but you didnt use <blink> there either :P15:25
janimosome progress on FTBFS count15:25
NCommanderSo on ARM porting, I'm kinda grinding my gears w.r.t. to mono15:25
janimoclosed a few arm-porting-queue tagged bugs15:25
NCommanderWe've gotthe SMP patch which does wonders for the mono 2.10 test suite (and was incorperated in the 2.10.1 release)15:25
ograNCommander, do we need to send Tobin some earplugs ?15:25
janimoincluding the two outstanding Qt ones (pending a test for neon still)15:25
NCommanderbut I'm not making any headway with a successful backport to 2.6, I think the underlying mono crashes are coming from PInvoke() failures in Gtk#15:26
NCommanderbut it seems odd to me that they're over occuring in 1-processor mode15:26
janimoNCommander, can we just apply the membarrier patch to 2.6 and do an upload, if it is clearly needed even if does not seem to direclty impact banshee?15:27
NCommanderI was able to produce the same failures on Debian sid, so at least I've ruled out thumb2 as the immediate cause15:27
ograwe could just quickly rewrite banshee in C :)15:27
NCommanderjanimo: I can do that, but I don't really want to do multiple mono uploads15:27
NCommanderjanimo: are you sure banshee fully worked when in nosmp mode? Its slightly more stable, but trying to do anything like play music or rescan library causes a crash15:28
NCommander(also, f-spot is still crashing)15:28
ograluckily we dont ship f-spot anymore since maverick15:28
janimoNCommander, no I am not sure at all. rsalveti and GrueMaster looked at nosmp testing in more detail15:28
ograhow is tomboy15:28
NCommanderogra: its still a valid test case15:28
NCommanderogra: tomboy works15:28
GrueMasterTomboy never failed.15:28
ograwe usually had it working while all other apps failed15:28
NCommanderrsalveti: ^- banshee nosmp question15:29
GrueMasterMy guess is that it is not multithreaded.15:29
janimoThe bug is probably in mono but some apps manage to not trigger it15:29
NCommanderjanimo: well, that's why I think its pinvoke()15:29
janimodepending on how Gtk intesive they are15:29
ogratomboy is really trivial indeed15:29
NCommander(for reference sake, pinvoke is the magic C# to C binding)15:29
rsalvetiI just tested with banshee15:29
janimoNCommander, IIRc in Dallas I managed to get stable banshee if I uninstalled the default theme15:29
janimoand using some ghetto default15:29
janimogtk theme that is15:30
NCommanderjanimo: doesn't work here, I have it using no theme and still crash city15:30
NCommanderrsalveti: right, but what did you do in banshee beside launch it?15:30
rsalvetiNCommander: use it normally, playing music and such15:30
janimonothing, look at the About menu :)15:30
GrueMasterNCommander: I played audio for a good hour on my BeagleXM15:30
rsalvetiyeah, it was quite stable15:30
NCommanderI guess I need to run the test suite in nosmp mode and see if we still get failures or if we're looking at a red hearing15:31
janimoGrueMaster, never had crash recently on single core?15:31
GrueMasterCould be we are seeing multiple issues.15:31
NCommanderWhat's making things difficult w.r.t. to backporting is the JIT is passing all the tests15:31
NCommanderAnd between 2.6 -> 2.10, someone added iPhone support15:31
NCommanderwhich means there's a TON of commits clogging up the works15:31
rsalvetiouch :-(15:31
NCommanderplus I'm not even sure mono is fixed in 2.10 since I can't run banshee without spending a week recompiling the entire stack15:32
rsalvetiargh, problem of using a quite old version15:32
NCommander(I'm semi-tempted to throw Gentoo ina  chroot and test it that way)15:32
janimoNCommander, right, when I looked I could find may arm commits but nothing which wuld imply it fixes some tests15:32
NCommanderjanimo: I'm almost thinking it probably got improved as part of the iPhon10:30:37 < janimo> nothing, look at the About menu :)15:32
NCommander10:30:49 < GrueMaster> NCommander: I played audio for a good hour on my  BeagleXM15:32
NCommander10:31:02 < rsalveti> yeah, it was quite stable15:32
janimoNCommander, or Suse or any distro with new mono I guess15:32
janimoah they may not have arm15:32
NCommanderjanimo: SuSE doesn't have an ARM port15:32
* NCommander looks15:33
janimoprobably not very wdely tested15:33
rsalvetior OE15:33
GrueMasterFedora has an arm port in the works (I think).15:33
rsalvetibut then don't know if they are building banshee and mono15:33
rsalvetithere is a mono recipe at OE, but 2.6.315:34
ogradoesnt OE even default to hardfloat ?15:34
NCommanderthey've got banshee available for Fedora15:34
ograthat should have build options close to ours (v7 thumb2)15:35
rsalvetidon't think they already changed it15:35
NCommanderogra: I already elimated v7+thumb2 as the cause of the regression15:35
NCommanderFedora is shipping 2.6 still15:35
rsalvetiwho is using 2.10?15:35
rsalvetiopensuse only?15:35
ogramegoo ?15:35
ogradid anyone check there15:35
NCommanderogra: no15:35
janimovarious IPhone and Android 3rd partuy apps maybe15:36
NCommanderogra: but its of limited use. the problem is the entire dependency stack15:36
NCommanderMight simply need to build a chroot then build mono + gtksharp + everything else from scratch15:36
* NCommander wimpers15:36
* GrueMaster votes to bag mono for this cycle - again.15:36
NCommanderbut I think we need to confirm 2.10 is regression free15:36
rsalvetiGrueMaster: it'd be nice to have15:36
janimoNCommander, does C# have the equivalent of inline functions, so Gtk sharp has some bits unless rebuilt against a new mono, even if we upload a fixed mono?15:36
ograGrueMaster, that means we need to take over rhythmbox mainteanance15:36
rsalvetiand it seems we're getting closer somehow15:36
NCommanderjanimo: nout out of the box15:37
NCommanderat least15:37
NCommanderI don't think so15:37
NCommanderjanimo: I know the official Microsoftimplementation can make native code .exe's15:37
NCommanderI don't know if mono embeds native code into the generated PE files15:37
GrueMasterNCommander: Instead of trying to build it locally, should it go in a ppa?15:37
NCommanderGrueMaster: repackaging mono for 2.10 would be an absolute nightmare15:38
NCommanderand I'm not confortable in my packaging skills to try it15:38
janimoNCommander, well it is packaged for Deb as you said, just too risky to sync at this point15:38
NCommanderjanimo: its not uploaded, the transition is sitll in progress15:39
janimoI say we should keep debugging (I will help as well) and only keep Rhythmbox if we cannot fix it say 2 weeks before release15:39
ograand what would we gain ? we cant upload it at all without affecting the other arches15:39
ogra2.10 is clearly not natty for the others15:40
NCommanderogra: right, but we need to make sure that 2.10 is fixed. At the very release, O cycle which we could ship 2.10 will work15:40
NCommanderif we know 2.10 works, then we can bisect, and deal with all the iphoneos patches15:40
NCommanderbut I don't want to deal with that without a "verification-confirmed" in hand :-P15:40
rsalvetiyeah, we need to test with 2.1015:41
rsalvetior git upstream15:41
NCommanderI'll work with git, since I at least have been making progress with mono upstream devs :-)15:41
rsalvetiwell, it should work :-)15:41
* NCommander checks gentoo very quickly15:41
NCommanderif I can do 'emerge banshee' and let it run for a day, I'd be happy15:41
janimoNCommander, so gentoo has good arm support?15:42
rsalvetiNafallo: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/mono15:42
* ogra would suspect OE to be easier15:42
NCommanderoh right, nuts15:42
NCommandergentoo's ARM port is kinda ...15:42
GrueMasterIf I may, we don't want to throw all or even most of our engineering effort at one package.  We have enough other stuff that is in the image that needs attention.15:42
rsalvetijanimo: it would be easier to have an arm rootfs15:42
NCommanderin the same state as its m68k port15:42
janimoNCommander, one of the mono arm devs is from Budapest, worst case we track him down at UDS and let him fix this :)15:42
rsalvetiNafallo: sorry15:43
rsalvetiNCommander: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/mono15:43
NCommanderdavidm: I think a bit of direction is needed: how high is mono on the priority list15:43
* Nafallo steps away from the gentoo.15:43
rsalvetiand banshee 1.8.115:43
Nafallono worries15:43
NCommanderrsalveti: right but its masked to powerpc/amd64/i386 only. There's an armel overlay but this is leading to the path to madness15:43
* ogra guesses the banshee shop is pretty high15:43
rsalvetiargh, no easy path15:43
NCommanderrsalveti: right, so best bet is to simply try and build mono stack by hand and pray15:44
ograNCommander, really, take OE15:44
janimoGrueMaster, well I mean since our WIs seem to be getting close to solved and we get into more bugfixing mode, this is one important bug. Of course we should see if there are other more important issues15:44
NCommander[action] NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression15:44
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression15:44
NCommanderogra: looking at OE, I don't even see a package list15:44
janimoNCommander, but debian arm does not experience this crash een on 2.6 ?15:45
rsalvetiogra: mono is still 2.615:45
rsalvetiso he would first need to update the mono recipe15:45
rsalvetiand that can take the same amount of work as updating the ubuntu package by hand15:45
NCommanderjanimo: no, it does15:45
NCommanderrsalveti: I was able to reproduce the crash in a Sid chroot with the SMP patch15:46
janimoNCommander, great than. I had the impression we were special because of ARMv7 and newer toolchain15:47
NCommanderjanimo: its probably a good idea to have someone double check my results to make sure I made no error15:47
janimoNCommander, do we absolutely rule out hw errors15:47
janimopanda kernel/memory stuff15:47
NCommanderjanimo: mono devs did report they don't see issues on tegra15:47
NCommanderalthough I'm blocking if that's SMP or not15:48
janimothat is SMP AFAIK15:48
ograall tegra2 cpus are multicore15:48
NCommandermy tegra system is currently got a trashed install on it15:48
GrueMasterWas it tegra or tegra 2?15:48
NCommanderogra: can you easy test banshee?15:48
ograonly on maverick15:48
NCommanderoh, argh15:48
ograi cant upgrade to natty15:48
NCommanderogra: we had the issue with maverick I believe15:48
NCommander^as well15:49
janimoogra, it used to fail on maverick too so ok15:49
GrueMasterYes, we did.15:49
ograright, what would a test on tegra improve here ?15:49
NCommander[action] ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra15:49
ografor maverick15:49
MootBotACTION received:  ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra15:49
NCommanderogra: rules out panda HW.15:49
rsalvetiwell, mono version from maverick is quite the same15:49
NCommanderyou probably need the SMP patch15:49
rsalvetiNCommander: don't you also have a ac100 in hands?15:50
NCommanderrsalveti: the install is trashed15:50
rsalvetihehe :-)15:50
GrueMasterBest to fail first, then test the fix.15:50
ograyeah, and restoring an SD takes 10mins15:50
rsalvetiwrong window15:51
NCommanderright, we're running out of time15:51
NCommanderso lets take this offline15:51
rsalvetiyup, move15:51
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:51
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:51
ograheadless is there !!!15:51
NCommandergo ogra + janimo15:51
GrueMasterNeeds work, but it is booting.15:52
ograbug 732576 needs some testing for the fis15:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 732576 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "oem-config-debconf does not start on preinstalled images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73257615:52
ograshould be in the next ubiquity upload, i'll test the fix after meeting15:52
ograserial by default is still miissing15:52
davidmNCommander, sorry was pulled away on a call15:53
ograand to make GrueMaster happy i hardcoded "localhost" as hostname for all preinstalled images today ;)15:53
davidmmono is important15:53
ograBug 732581 is an intresting one15:54
NCommanderdavidm: not a problem15:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 732581 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "oem-config colormap distorted during package removal in oem-config-debconf on omap4 preinstalled images" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73258115:54
NCommanderdavidm: ok, just wanted to make sure I wasjustified to continue working on it15:54
davidmNCommander, we need to fix it, if at all possible15:54
ograi would like to see someone test on a beagle15:54
GrueMasterogra: Will do later this am.15:54
ograsince i'm not sure its the panda framebuffer being broken here15:54
ograGrueMaster, just wait for the next build, that shuld also have the ubiquity-dm fix so you dont need to tinker with the image15:55
ograheadless will be the first image to build every day, ist also the fastest build (shoudl be available at 00:30 UTC)15:56
ograso we can easily test core bits before netbook gets built15:56
GrueMasterEspecially if netbook crashes.15:56
janimoNCommander, to avoid building the whole stack of mono, you may first build banshee from source too with a minimal set of dependencies and plugins which still lead to crash15:57
ograits a good measure15:57
ogra.. done with image status15:57
NCommanderjanimo: I'm going to follow the instructions on the website to build banshee15:57
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)15:57
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)15:57
NCommanderjanimo: I don't think it will be TOO bad15:58
GrueMasterDocumented installation process at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/HeadlessInstall15:58
janimoNCommander, ok, I now it has lots of plugins enabled as it is15:58
GrueMasterFor the minimal image.15:58
NCommanderjanimo: almost all ship with banshee15:58
ograGrueMaster, can you follow the naming scheme thats on /OMAP15:58
ograsince thats what we link from the image download pages15:59
GrueMasterogra: I left it this way in case we start building more images for other platforms next cycle.  Reduce wiki clutter.15:59
janimoNCommander, right. I mean if there are plugins written in C# which now ship, but which if disabled still crash banshee, those you don;t need to include in the full rebuild15:59
ograGrueMaster, well, it should be linked from /OMAP and have a releasename in the url15:59
NCommanderjanimo: fair enough15:59
* GrueMaster waits for mono discussion to finish.16:00
GrueMasterogra: This was also just a first run.16:00
janimouh sorry, I brought it up again16:00
GrueMasterTime's up.16:01
ograGrueMaster, yeah https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall and should also link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPNattyInstall ...16:01
* NCommander can't remember if we're running into another meeting16:01
ogramake the headless instructions a link on the natty one16:01
NCommander[topic] Any Other Business16:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business16:01
NCommander(very quickly :-))16:01
ograNCommander, finish, we can take the rest offline16:01
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:02.16:02
=== jj-afk is now known as jjohansen
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
pittimdz, kees, cjwatson: TB meeting in 1 min?17:59
pittino trace of sabdfl or Keybuk17:59
keespitti: hola. I emailed keybuk just now17:59
keespitti: haven't heard back though17:59
mdzhi pitti18:00
* pitti still chews up the last bits of his dinner18:00
MootBotMeeting started at 12:00. The chair is mdz.18:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:00
pittiah, you're chairing? thanks18:01
* pitti just noticed that he is signed up as fallback, but I don't insist :)18:01
mdzI have done zero prep, because I thought someone else was chairing, and didn't get a response when I asked on the list18:02
mdzthere were no minutes sent out for the previous meeting, so I don't know if there were any actions18:02
keesI updated the agenda about 15 min ago with the statuses from the last meeting18:02
pitti$ bzr lp-propose18:03
pittibzr: ERROR: No reviewer specified18:03
pittisorry, -EFOCUS18:03
keesmdz: I don't see your email to the list either18:03
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.log.20110222_0932.html18:04
mdzkees, thanks for that18:04
mdzlooks like the actions are all done18:04
mdz[topic] Quarterly brainstorm review (mdz)18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Quarterly brainstorm review (mdz)18:04
mdzso it's been 3 months since the last one, so it's time for the second installment of the brainstorm review18:05
mdzI would be grateful if someone else could drive it this time18:05
mdzit's not a huge amount of work, but requires some day-to-day care and feeding to keep things moving18:05
mdzI can share the email templates, blog text, spreadsheet, etc. which I used the last time18:06
pittithat would be helpful indeed18:06
keesmdz: what was your criteria for what to respond to out of all the stuff there?18:06
pittiso that was about reviewing the top n and picking out the sensible stuff?18:06
pittiI think I can squeeze in some time for that18:07
mdzpitti, yes18:07
mdzkees, I more or less picked the top 10 off of the "most popular over 6 months" list18:07
mdzthough I would be glad to see some experimentation there18:07
mdzI think there are lots of valid ways to select the best ones18:07
keesmdz: I assume we should ignore the ones that we already responded to?18:07
mdzkees, not necessarily18:08
mdzI think it depends on what it is, and what's happened18:08
mdzcertainly for the ones being worked on, I expect something has happened in the past 3 months that's worth mentioning18:08
pittisounds like applying some common sense18:09
pittimdz: I'm happy to sign up for this round18:09
mdzit should be much easier this time around because you can just follow the process if you want18:09
mdzpitti, sound good?18:09
mdzgreat, done18:10
mdz[action] pitti to kick off brainstorm review18:10
MootBotACTION received:  pitti to kick off brainstorm review18:10
mdz[action] mdz to send materials to pitti18:10
MootBotACTION received:  mdz to send materials to pitti18:10
mdz[topic] mailing list scan18:10
MootBotNew Topic:  mailing list scan18:10
mdzI saw this and wasn't sure if it had been dealt with:18:11
mdzuTouch package set and Chase Douglas' application for upload rightto it18:11
pittiI set up the package group yesterday18:11
pitticnd can upload now, he tested it18:11
pittiI think that's done18:11
pittiI'll follow up18:12
mdz[action] pitti to respond to uTouch package set request18:12
MootBotACTION received:  pitti to respond to uTouch package set request18:12
mdzpitti, thanks18:12
mdz[topic] administration of ubuntu-release18:12
MootBotNew Topic:  administration of ubuntu-release18:12
mdz[link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000721.html18:13
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000721.html18:13
mdzcjwatson asked about this, and I suggested that it should be a TB decision18:13
keesI think it's fine for skaet to be admin there; as long as TB remains an admin as well. (this was one of the proposals from the thread, IIRC)18:13
mdzpresently, ubuntu-release is owned by me (mdz) and cjwatson is the only administrator18:13
pittiI'd just make it easy and set both her and TB as admin18:13
Keybukthe question here is whether the release manager can add new people to the ubuntu-release team without requiring TB approval/rubber stamping?18:14
pittihey Keybuk, howdy18:14
mdzI think the owner of the team should be TB, rather than me, and would like to just go ahead and do that. any objections?18:14
Keybukhistorically this was always "yes" ?  in which case having kate + TB as admins seems entirely appropriate to me18:14
keesmdz: no objection from me18:14
Keybuk(or TB as owner, kate as admin)18:14
pittimdz: +118:14
Keybukmdz: +118:14
mdz[agreed] techboard should be the owner of ubuntu-release18:15
MootBotAGREED received:  techboard should be the owner of ubuntu-release18:15
pittimdz: wrt ML scan: "01.03.11 18:30 Michael Bienia    Re: Application for Per-Package Upload rights"18:15
keesright, delegating this kind of thing is what we've tried to do. I think that's consistent here.18:15
pittimdz: I'll get to that after the meeting18:15
mdzKeybuk, yes, the question is whether the TB should manage membership in ubuntu-release or whether it should be delegated to the release manager18:15
pittimdz: that was for Serge18:15
pitti(sorry, thought we were done)18:15
mdzpitti, oh, good catch, I thought that was a dupe of the other one18:16
mdz[action] pitti to add PPU rights for Serge Hallyn per ML18:16
MootBotACTION received:  pitti to add PPU rights for Serge Hallyn per ML18:16
mdzKeybuk, yes, I believe cjwatson became admin in his capacity as RM18:16
mdzas opposed to TB18:16
mdzso historically, the RM has had this ability, though it's a bit of a grey area since he was also on the TB18:17
Keybukbut only grey if you don't know the history18:18
mdzso the proposal is to make Kate the admin of ubuntu-release, as official RM delegate from the TB18:18
mdza bit late, given she's been doing the job for a while18:19
mdzany questions on that or shall we vote?18:19
keesit's clear to me. I'm ready for a vote.18:20
Keybukno, question or objections18:20
mdz[vote] Kate Stewart to be confirmed as release manager as a delegation from the TB, and admin of the ubuntu-release team18:20
MootBotPlease vote on:  Kate Stewart to be confirmed as release manager as a delegation from the TB, and admin of the ubuntu-release team.18:20
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot18:20
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting18:20
MootBot+1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 118:20
MootBot+1 received from mdz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 218:20
MootBot+1 received from kees. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 318:20
MootBot+1 received from pitti. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 418:20
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 418:20
mdz[action] mdz to update LP accordingly18:20
MootBotACTION received:  mdz to update LP accordingly18:20
mdz[topic] community bugs18:21
MootBotNew Topic:  community bugs18:21
mdzmy understanding is that further action on our old friend, bug 174375, is blocked on bug 45139018:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 174375 in Launchpad itself "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17437518:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 451390 in Launchpad itself "limited upload rights no longer give series nomination accept/decline rights" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45139018:21
mdzso I added an ubuntu-community task and TB assignment for that bug, so that we track it18:21
cjwatsonurgh, sorry I forgot about this meeting; I've been on holiday today18:22
mdzit looks like it just got escalated an hour ago via flacoste (thanks to whomever did that)18:22
* cjwatson skims scrollback18:22
mdzso I think we don't need to do anything just yet and should wait to see what happens with 45139018:23
cjwatsonFWIW I think I was admin of ubuntu-release before I was on the TB18:23
cjwatsonthough haven't checked dates18:23
mdzcjwatson, indeed, I was just thinking that18:23
mdz[topic] AOB18:23
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB18:23
pittimdz: still from ML scan: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-January/000670.html18:24
mdzanything else?18:24
pittirather old, we failed to spot it earlier18:24
mdzpitti, oh, I completely missed that18:24
mdz[topic] SRU for w3m18:24
MootBotNew Topic:  SRU for w3m18:24
mdz[link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-January/000670.html18:24
pittiIMHO it's a "low risk, low profit" thing18:24
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-January/000670.html18:24
mdzit's in relation to bug 52322918:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 523229 in Launchpad itself "The Continue button isn't selectable in w3m for sso login (dup-of: 683337)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52322918:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 683337 in w3m (Ubuntu) "Backport button element support to Lucid" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/68333718:25
pittiI don't think many users would suddenly expect it to work on a stable release after over a year18:25
pittiand it's not a major bug at all18:25
keesseems fine; did this come to TB because it's a feature change? did it get kicked back from the SRU team?18:25
cjwatsonthe LP team specifically asked for it, IIRC18:25
mdzI had no idea it was broken18:25
cjwatsonoriginally they asked foundations; somebody (mvo?) looked at it and determined it was less easy than initially expected, and moved on to other things18:26
mdzkees, there's no indication in the bug that it was rejected by the SRU team18:26
cjwatsonnow there's a patch18:26
pittiit was brought up with TB straight away18:26
pittiand it's not even (marked as) fixed in natty18:26
keesyeah, I think this should just go through the regular SRU process.18:26
cjwatsonit was raised with the TB well after it was raised with foundations, iirc18:26
mdzhttps://code.launchpad.net/~iheino+ub/ubuntu/lucid/w3m/bug683337 has one "approve" and one "disapprove"18:26
pittinor is u-sru subscribed18:26
cjwatsonbut yeah, I don't see why this should be going through the TB18:26
Keybukindeed, this seems like a justification for an ordinary SRU18:27
Keybukwhich can be done in the usual way18:27
mdzbounce to ubuntu-sru?18:27
mdzwho should do that? the person who wrote the patch?18:29
mdzah, yes, it's the patch author who sent it to t-b@18:29
mdzI'll respond on the list18:30
keeshttps://code.launchpad.net/~iheino+ub/ubuntu/maverick/w3m/bug683337/+merge/46417  <- last seems to say it was rejected for SRU?18:30
keespitti: ari-tczew mentions you in his rejected review18:30
pittiah, I guess we talked about it on IRC a while back then18:31
mdz"I have debated with Martin Pitt about your patch and unfortunately, it can't be approved. It's small new feature, no bug-fix. This is way through backports."18:31
mdzcomment dated 2011-01-3018:31
ari-tczewkees: yes?18:31
mdzpitti, are you ok with this going back to ubuntu-sru for consideration?18:31
* pitti looks at the patch again -- it's quite large indeed18:31
mdzpitti, yes, it's non-trivial18:31
cjwatsonperhaps somebody could ask the LP team whether they still feel this is important18:31
pittimdz: we can, but looking at the patch again my opinion didn't really change18:31
cjwatson(I admit I'm going somewhat from memory, I can't remember who raised this with us)18:31
pittilarge change, not really appropriate for SRU18:32
mdzbut I don't agree with the "feature" designation18:32
cjwatsonI can chase the original contact down in my mail folders and take that action if people want18:32
mdzLP has changed, login via w3m doesn't work, that's a bug18:32
pittibut I have no strong opinion about it18:32
pittiif someone can test it with a lot of web pages, so be it18:32
pittiproblem is that we don't usually get this kind of comprehensive testing18:32
mdz[action] cjwatson to follow up on w3m SRU request for w3m from Tuomas Heino18:33
MootBotACTION received:  cjwatson to follow up on w3m SRU request for w3m from Tuomas Heino18:33
mdzhappy for cjwatson to decide how to handle it from here18:33
mdzcjwatson, thanks18:33
mdz[topic] AOB v2.018:33
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB v2.018:33
mdzif you like, we could debate the general principles of Ubuntu components which interface with web services18:34
mdzand the tradeoffs in trying to provide the best experience for users18:34
mdzpossibly risky updates vs. broken compatibility with the web18:35
mdzthere are a variety of other packages with this problem18:35
mdzyoutube-dl is a recent example I came across18:35
mdzUbuntu One we've discussed before18:35
cjwatsonI seem to remember attempting to establish a principle that changing external circumstances can be a justification for updates18:35
mdzthe number of such packages will only grow18:35
cjwatsonpossibly in the context of Landscape, from what I remember18:36
pittimdz: it wasn't pointed out as a regression; if it is, then that would be appropriate indeed18:36
cjwatsoni.e. the server has changed, if we don't change the client then it's to all intents and purposes a regression and we should fix it18:36
cjwatson(we can deprecate such behaviour all we like, but don't always have power to do much about it)18:36
mdzpitti, hmm, you're right, it doesn't say. but I'm pretty sure it has worked in the past18:36
mdzI've certainly logged into LP with w3m before18:36
cjwatsonhowever, I'm being called for dinner and have to leave, I'm afraid - since I'd forgotten about this meeting while on holiday, I didn't warn Kirsten about it18:37
mdzcjwatson, I feel the same, though I didn't recall us having set a precedent18:37
mdzok, later cjwatson18:37
* cjwatson finds it18:38
mdzdoes anyone have a feeling about whether this is something we should discuss further, either now or at the next meeting?18:38
cjwatsonhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Special%20Cases links to:18:38
cjwatsonwhich was explicitly phrased as precedent18:38
mdzcjwatson, good memory18:38
mdz"As such, the Technical Board '''approves''' the proposed policy [1],18:38
mdzwith specific cases at the discretion of the ubuntu-sru team."18:38
pittiright, no objection if it's a regression18:39
mdznothing more to discuss then18:39
cjwatsonanyway, got to run18:39
mdzwrap up?18:39
mdzok, thanks all18:40
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:40.18:40
keesthanks mdz18:40
pittithanks all18:40
keesKeybuk: can you chair next meeting?18:40
Keybukjust checking calendar, but I think so18:40
* charlie-tca waves at everyone19:00
* pleia2 waves19:00
charlie-tcaLet's get this ball rolling19:01
MootBotMeeting started at 13:01. The chair is charlie-tca.19:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:01
charlie-tcaThis is the Xubuntu Community Meeting. The full agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings19:02
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Old business19:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Old business19:02
charlie-tcawe have several items to go through, the first being19:02
charlie-tcaXubuntu marketing plans19:03
knomemarketing plans: most pending on the new WP site, and we're still waiting for access to staging.xubuntu.org19:03
knomexubuntu blog is now aggregated to planet ubuntu.19:03
charlie-tcaThank you, knome19:03
charlie-tcaCan we close this one now?19:03
knomeafaik, there is no other progress. am i right, pleia2?19:03
pleia2and ochosi's artwork post hit the planet yesterday, yay :)19:03
pleia2that's it19:03
knomelet's close it for now, we can reopen it once we get progress with WP19:04
charlie-tcaThank you19:04
charlie-tcanext we have - ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon19:04
knomewp meaning wordpress, not wallpaper ;)19:04
charlie-tcaThis is closed19:04
knomeyeah, it's pretty much not possible...19:04
charlie-tcaThere's a problem with how the new panel handles the menu-icon. ochosi filed a bug about it upstream since the new app-menu button is always scaled down to square size. There's not much room for improvement over the current icon.19:04
knomehttp://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/panel-menu-icon-2.png is the latest draft, though19:04
MootBotLINK received:  http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/panel-menu-icon-2.png is the latest draft, though19:04
charlie-tcaWe keep trying, at least19:05
knomewe're investigating.19:05
charlie-tcaThis is website, I think - ask knome to do some drafts with a grey background and a black background19:05
knomeumm, just a sec19:05
knomei'm sure i did one, but that's not online for some reason19:06
charlie-tcaokay, I will carry it forward19:06
knomeyup, i'll continue working with that with pleia219:06
charlie-tcaThere is also the tele-conference for marketing, any status?19:06
knomestill moving forward, probably post-natty19:06
charlie-tcaand then we have - put workspace switcher back in the current configuration for natty19:07
knomeso we can close that as well19:07
charlie-tcaand this is done19:07
charlie-tcathat takes of old business, next19:07
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Team updates19:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Team updates19:07
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Artwork19:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Artwork19:08
charlie-tcagreybird is now fixed to theme gdm.19:08
charlie-tcaochosi improved the xfce4-notification style so that it's more contrasty and easier to see19:08
charlie-tcaThere has been a new release of the elementary icons upstream as promised and that includes quite a few fixes for us19:08
charlie-tcaand we will be choosing a wallpaper19:09
knome*a default wallpaper19:09
charlie-tcaWe have many excellent submissions at http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/pool/19:09
charlie-tcaI propose picking the top 5 to add to backgrounds, with the best one used as default for natty19:09
knomehow are we going to vote?19:10
charlie-tcaI don't know the best way to do this, but I would ask for each persons top two picks19:10
charlie-tcaOnly community members present are going to vote19:10
knomewhat counts as a community member?19:11
charlie-tcawho is here for the meeting?19:11
Sysio/ here community member or not19:11
charlie-tca[link] http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-719:11
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-719:11
charlie-tca[link] http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-uawt-719:12
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-uawt-719:12
charlie-tcafirst two to consider19:12
charlie-tcaI show 5 people, that is only ten to narrow down19:12
charlie-tcaknome: picks?19:12
knomei'm lamely going to propose the two of my own.19:13
charlie-tcaby all means19:13
knomehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/ (#1)19:13
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/ (#1)19:13
knomehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-1546142@N20/ (#2)19:13
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-1546142@N20/ (#2)19:13
charlie-tcaOkay, that is the two emunkki drafts, the man with umbrella, and the glider with yellow19:14
charlie-tcapleia2: yours?19:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:14
knomemicahg, Sysi ?19:15
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5224255554/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:16
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/tylana/5343925114/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:16
Sysishould i give links if i'm not gonna pick new ones?19:16
knomeSysi, not necessarily :)19:16
Sysiknome's #1 (newer) or the umbrella guy19:17
charlie-tcaOkay, now we got the top 819:17
knomei'm dropping my #2 off the list, so we have 719:18
charlie-tcaanybody got an idea how to pick the best now?19:18
Sysibtw, has ubuntu wallpaper been decided/published?19:18
charlie-tcahm, vote on each one, with the one receiving the highest votes goes as default?19:18
charlie-tcaUbuntu will probably use what they have already, the color splash thing19:19
knomeone vote per person?19:19
beardygnomehi guys, just got here, what are we voting on?19:19
charlie-tcaand only those present vote19:19
beardygnomecan i get a link?19:20
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/pool/19:20
charlie-tcaWe picked out 7 to vote on, and will do this one at a time. The wallpaper getting the most votes goes as default, so if it is not your favorite, either obstain or vote -1. We are counting the +1 votes, not what the bot decides19:22
knomei'd say better to vote -119:22
charlie-tca[VOTE] first wallpaper to vote on - http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-719:22
MootBotPlease vote on:  first wallpaper to vote on - http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-7.19:22
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:22
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:22
MootBot-1 received from knome. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -119:22
micahgcharlie-tca: how many times can we vote?19:22
knomemicahg, one.19:22
knomemicahg, one plus.19:22
knomemicahg, minus votes do not count :)19:23
beardygnomeonce per wallpaper, right?19:23
charlie-tcaheh, many as you want for each one19:23
charlie-tcaone vote, one wallpaper, I mean19:23
MootBot-1 received from beardygnome. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -219:23
knomeright, so one has more than one vote?19:23
charlie-tcaOne has one vote to use for each design, yes19:23
knome(eg. you could +1 all the images?)19:23
charlie-tcayes, you could, it would count the same as not voting, wouldn't it?19:24
knomecharlie-tca, yes and no ;)19:24
MootBot-1 received from micahg. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -319:24
MootBotAbstention received from charlie-tca. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -319:24
charlie-tcaOkay, that one fails19:25
MootBotFinal result is 0 for, 3 against. 1 abstained. Total: -319:25
charlie-tca[VOTE] next wallpaper - http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-uawt-719:25
MootBotPlease vote on:  next wallpaper - http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-uawt-7.19:25
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:25
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:25
MootBot+1 received from charlie-tca. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:25
MootBot-1 received from knome. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 019:25
MootBot+1 received from beardygnome. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:25
MootBot-1 received from micahg. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 019:26
charlie-tcaI just realized, beardygnome is disadvantages, he did not know which ones are up19:26
Sysiit doesn't matter on this kind of vote?19:26
knomecharlie-tca, he still votes + or - for each.19:26
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:26
beardygnomeyeah, i'm happy19:27
charlie-tcaOkay, that is three on this one19:27
MootBot-1 received from Sysi. 3 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 019:27
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 3 against. 0 abstained. Total: 019:27
charlie-tcaknome: greens or blues on yours?19:28
knomethe more blue19:28
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:28
charlie-tca[VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:28
MootBotPlease vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/.19:28
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:28
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:28
MootBot+1 received from knome. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:28
micahg+1, but I suspect people will complain of eye strain :)19:28
MootBot-1 received from beardygnome. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 019:29
MootBotAbstention received from charlie-tca. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 019:29
knomeMootBot, err, that didn't count yet :)19:29
knomeerr, micahg19:29
charlie-tcacount is 119:29
knomemicahg said +1, but mootbot didn't register19:29
MootBot+1 received from micahg. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 119:29
MootBot+1 received from Sysi. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 219:29
charlie-tcacount is 319:29
knomemy wife is soon burning her sleeves since we are supposed to go home :P19:30
Sysii's need to go to sauna..19:30
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 219:30
charlie-tca[VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:31
MootBotPlease vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/.19:31
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:31
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:31
MootBot-1 received from charlie-tca. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -119:31
MootBot-1 received from beardygnome. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -219:31
MootBot-1 received from knome. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -319:31
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -219:31
MootBot-1 received from Sysi. 1 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -319:32
MootBotFinal result is 1 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: -319:32
charlie-tcacount is one19:32
* micahg would've +1 that19:33
charlie-tcathen that is 219:33
knomemicahg, speed is ace. :P19:33
micahgsorry, E_TOOMANYTASKS19:33
charlie-tca[VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:33
MootBotPlease vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-1546142@N20/.19:33
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:33
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:33
knomenp ;)19:34
MootBotFinal result is 0 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 019:34
charlie-tca[VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5224255554/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:35
MootBotPlease vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5224255554/in/pool-1546142@N20/.19:35
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:35
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:35
MootBot+1 received from micahg. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:35
MootBot-1 received from knome. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 019:35
MootBot-1 received from charlie-tca. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -119:35
MootBot-1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -219:35
MootBot-1 received from Sysi. 1 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -319:35
MootBot+1 received from beardygnome. 2 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -219:35
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: -219:36
charlie-tcacount is 219:36
charlie-tcaand the last one is19:36
charlie-tca[VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/tylana/5343925114/in/pool-1546142@N20/19:36
MootBotPlease vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/tylana/5343925114/in/pool-1546142@N20/.19:36
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:36
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:36
MootBot+1 received from micahg. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:36
MootBot+1 received from charlie-tca. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 219:36
MootBot-1 received from knome. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:36
MootBot-1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 019:36
MootBotAbstention received from Sysi. 2 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 019:37
MootBotAbstention received from beardygnome. 2 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 019:37
knome(when did dolphins become the xubuntu mascot?? :))19:37
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 2 against. 2 abstained. Total: 019:37
charlie-tcaCount is 219:37
pleia2(yeah, if it was mice..!)19:37
charlie-tcathe same time the umbrella did?19:37
pleia2or the birds19:37
knomewe had two 3 votes19:38
knomeand 3 two votes19:38
knomemy suggestion: upload those to xubuntu now19:38
micahgso, we should revote the 2 3s19:38
charlie-tcaI don't think the animal is the mascot, but rather representation of the OS19:38
knomeleave one week time for artists to finish off the design19:38
knomeand revote about the default19:38
pleia2knome: +119:38
charlie-tcaWhy didn't the artists finish in 4 months?19:38
charlie-tcabut okay, I will grant a one week period.19:39
knomecharlie-tca, because you said that after this meeting the artists would get last directions to finish off19:39
charlie-tcaIdeas to pass to the man with umbrella to improve it?19:39
knomei already commented it on the flickr page19:39
knomethere is some ideaqs19:39
charlie-tcaIdeas to pass to the blue hues background to improve it?19:40
knomenote to self: add something for the eye to look for, like some subtle rays or sth19:40
Sysiwould it be better to test wallpapers as part of the theme?19:40
knomeand rework on the colors with better monitor19:40
beardygnomei think it's a bit too plain19:40
pleia2Sysi: yea, I was just thinking that19:40
knomeSysi, of course.19:40
charlie-tcaYes, it would be better if you have the time to do that19:40
knomecharlie-tca, there is this one week?19:41
charlie-tcayes, knome19:41
knomecharlie-tca, considering the designs won't change too much (eg. i won't come up with a red wallpaper week later ;))19:41
charlie-tcaI think some rays in the blue hues would be great, maybe even a sunspot/light in order to draw the viewers eye19:41
knomeare we done with the wallpaper stuff for this week now?19:42
knomeyup, i'll have to think about that.19:42
Sysiand then we get screenshot with rest of natty artwork?19:42
knomei did that image today19:42
charlie-tcaI will tally everything and ask mr_pouit and ochosi to package the top 5 for us19:42
knomeSysi, thorwil did a "test wallpaper with theme" package19:42
knomeSysi, i can work on some shots with the theme and the five candidates19:42
knomecharlie-tca, ^^19:43
charlie-tcaand I saw him come in to the meeting. Is he still here?19:43
knomeno idea. i have ignored joins/parts19:43
charlie-tcaThat would be great, knome19:43
knomethorwil, i'll use your tool, sir :P19:43
charlie-tcaWelcome to our meeting, thorwil19:43
knome...so, are we ready with the wallpapers...? :)19:43
charlie-tcaCan you tell where to grab your tool for these19:43
knomei know19:43
charlie-tcayup, knome19:43
charlie-tcanext week we vote on the best of two, right?19:44
knomeor all five.19:44
thorwilfive or two??19:44
knomebest two is okay as well.19:44
charlie-tcaNext week we vote on the best of two19:44
knomesince they *did* get more votes than the rest19:44
knomeokay, thanks19:44
knomei'll go calm down my wife19:44
charlie-tcaThank you19:45
knomehave a good rest of the meeting19:45
knomeno problem, see you later19:45
Sysii'd need to get to the sauna.. i'll read the log19:45
charlie-tcathorwil: we are looking the blue hues and the man with umbrella for the default19:45
Sysi(if you're too fast)19:45
charlie-tcathanks, Sysi19:45
thorwilcharlie-tca: oh well, i hardly see a competition there19:46
thorwiland i suspect you don't have to bother with any kind of art direction / specification for the release after next19:48
charlie-tcaIf only... but I will let the community decide, at least the ones that show up19:48
charlie-tcaI think you are correct.19:48
charlie-tcaBut I will get the top 5 or so included this release in the backgrounds, at least.19:49
charlie-tcaWe got some really nice designs this time. I thank you for all your help on it19:50
charlie-tcaI guess we better get the packaging updates now, and get this meeting wound up19:50
thorwilcharlie-tca: your welcome19:51
charlie-tcaYour advice is greatly appreciated here.19:51
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Packaging & Development19:51
MootBotNew Topic:  Packaging & Development19:51
charlie-tcaThe packaging/dev report, nothing much: uploaded new greybird, fixed a few default settings' issues, and blacklisted a few indicators in xfce4-indicator (e.g. indicator-appmenu, we don't want it)19:52
charlie-tcaAlso fixed a crash in xfce4-terminal, and patched xfce4-settings to solve the long standing bugs wrt sticky keys19:52
charlie-tcaAnd accessibility gains again!19:52
charlie-tcaThat's all I have on Packaging and Development this week19:53
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing19:53
MootBotNew Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing19:53
charlie-tcano update this week19:53
charlie-tcaany questions ?19:53
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Website & Marketing19:53
MootBotNew Topic:  Website & Marketing19:53
charlie-tcaany updates, pleia2 ?19:54
pleia2nothing beyond what we mentioned earlier in the meeting19:54
charlie-tcaThank you19:54
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Announcements19:54
MootBotNew Topic:  Announcements19:54
charlie-tcaWe released Natty alpha3 last week, thanks to efforts of all involved!19:55
charlie-tcaWe have a fast moving release cycle now, with the beta1 coming out March 3119:55
charlie-tcaAnyone wants to go to UDS-O needs to submit their application for sponsorship, please19:56
charlie-tcaYou do not have to be a developer to go19:56
charlie-tcaany questions?19:56
micahgnah, beta is normally a month before release19:56
charlie-tcaWe have two betas and no rc this cycle19:57
micahgright, but beta 1 isn't any earlier than normal19:57
charlie-tcaI just meant we can't slow down now19:57
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Governance structure19:58
MootBotNew Topic:  Governance structure19:58
charlie-tcaI plan to put together a proposal to choose the new lead for xubuntu, most likely by community vote.19:58
beardygnomebut we on;t just voted on you charlie-tca19:59
charlie-tcaThis will have to be added to the Xubuntu Strategy Document, existing at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument19:59
charlie-tcayes, beardygnome19:59
charlie-tcabut there are no provisions in Xubuntu for how to pick a new lead19:59
charlie-tcaWe kind of stumbled our way through it20:00
beardygnomeso you're proposing *how* we do it20:00
beardygnomenot that we need to do it now?20:00
charlie-tcahow to do it, correct20:00
charlie-tcaPlease pass your suggestions for this to me, either by email, or on IRC in #xubuntu-devel20:01
charlie-tcaBeing the way I am, it bothers me a lot20:01
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Any Other Business20:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business20:02
charlie-tcaAnyone want to bring up anything?20:02
charlie-tcaGo ahead, micahg20:02
micahgis it worth still considering lightdm?20:02
charlie-tcaI thought it was too buggy?20:03
micahgoh, hmm, haven't tried it yet, maybe I should testdrive it...20:03
charlie-tcaTo me, it is always worth considering anything besides GDM20:03
charlie-tcamr_pouit said it wouldn't work yet20:03
charlie-tcabut I don't remember the why?20:04
micahgcharlie-tca: ok, I trust him :)20:04
charlie-tcaMe too20:04
charlie-tcathat's why I dropped it20:04
charlie-tcaAnything else?20:04
micahggetting a little late in the cycle, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't forgotten, ok, we can try for O :)20:04
charlie-tcaWe will have another meeting in one week, March 17 at 19:00 UTC20:05
charlie-tcaWe will pick a default wallpaper at that meeting.20:05
charlie-tcathank you all for being here and participating! Teamwork!20:06
MootBotMeeting finished at 14:06.20:06
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