shaunowell, that was easy enough.  80G that's gone and another 65G that's being shifted off to external.  should keep me out of trouble until I can get a new laptop00:07
hamitronit must be amazing how much time is spent sorting data, because of all the junk we have00:09
hamitronif you added up the time all of us take, then consider what could be done if putting that to some productive use00:10
shaunolike ... playing minecraft?   ;)00:11
zleapi spend ages sorting through the piles of rubbish in this room that gets generated as a result of using computers00:11
zleapprint outs, paper, and other stuff00:11
shaunoto be honest, I don't want to be productive 11 minutes after midnight00:11
hamitronexactly shauno00:11
hamitrontbh, I consider something like minecraft to be more productive than sorting crap00:12
hamitronencourages team work :D00:13
zleapyeah but this crap just piles up00:16
zleapit needs to be sorted, not just shifted out of sight which I am good at doing00:16
HazRPGdon't ya just hate a "until next week" moment00:21
zleaper yeah00:21
HazRPGso frustrating00:21
HazRPGI knew there was a reason I only ever watched old shows00:22
HazRPGzleap: I was watching being human00:22
HazRPGtechnically it was an old(ish) show, they've just relived it recently00:23
=== zoe is now known as ZoeR
ZoeR'ello all00:24
HazRPGZoeR: hi, welcome back :)00:25
ZoeRThanks, HazRPG00:25
* ZoeR quite likes it here. :)00:25
HazRPGas I do :)00:26
HazRPGZoeR: how's your ubuntu install going?00:26
ZoeRPretty well, thanks. I'm loving it so far.00:27
HazRPGgood good :)00:27
ZoeRI have to admit that it's been over a year since I last had Linux installed because I needed to use the computer for Photoshop work and I didn't have the space for a dual boot. It's good to have it back.00:27
HazRPGZoeR: I find GIMP is a good replacement for Photoshop really :)00:28
ZoeRI found it difficult to get used to the change in layout and the fact that I had to click on the tool box, then click on the tool I wanted, then click on the image before I could use the tool was very annoying00:29
HazRPGPicasa 3 has been built up to work on linux too, which is good if your just doing simple photo editing00:29
ZoeRNot really. I'm a cartoonist.00:29
HazRPGhmm, I didn't think you had to click on tool then click on image before use...00:30
HazRPGyeah, just fiddling around now... and seems you don't have to do that00:31
HazRPGyou can just use it straight away00:31
ZoeRThe version of Gimp I had didn't work like that.00:31
ZoeRI had to click between windows, which was very annoying00:31
ZoeRMaybe it has been changed. I'll have to look into it.00:32
HazRPGoh, if you mean pictures are in their own window - then yeah00:32
HazRPGthat hasn't changed, however you can just use the tool straight away00:32
shaunoI get that with gimp on the mac.  the first click in the tool palette brings focus to that window, the second actually does what you thought the first would00:32
ZoeRThat's the problem I was having, shauno00:33
shaunoin my particular case, it's a side-effect of quartz-wm being dumb; the window manager, not gimp00:33
ZoeRI think Photoshop got around that by acting like everything was in the same window00:33
shaunoit'll act like everything else when you use it on a platform where it's "at home" :)00:33
ZoeRI'll give it another try, then. :)00:34
HazRPGhmm, I know GIMP plays funny inside Windows sometimes, but its fine inside ubuntu or any other linux distro :)00:34
shauno(random aside, I'm really disappointed there's not a better option than gimp by now.)00:34
HazRPGI guess the only thing GIMP doesn't do is being able to draw your own shapes - but there are ways around that (sort of)00:35
ZoeRWhat do you mean by 'draw your own shapes'?00:35
HazRPGshauno: I think its just the time it takes to make such applications, I mean there isn't really an alternative to blender for example (and that has a steep learning curve if your use to other tools)00:36
shaunoI don't.00:36
HazRPGZoeR: one think I like with Photoshop is that you can just start with a blank canvas, and start making stuff using shape tools (square, etc) and then filter them, twist them around etc00:36
shaunoI use an app called pixelmator, which is incredibly young, and already beats the gimp for everything but scriptability00:37
HazRPGthing* not think00:37
ZoeRAh, right. Yeah Photoshop is good for shapes like that.00:37
HazRPGin gimp, to do the same effect you have to grab a section of the screen and then fill it with colour, then you can manipulate it - so takes a bit longer then just dragging a shape00:38
HazRPGoooh, one thing I should note... Wine works a lot better than it did a year ago, more windows applications *just work* now without fiddling00:39
HazRPGhowever I haven't tested photoshop CS3 and above00:39
HazRPGolder than CS3 works though00:39
HazRPGthe new custom interface they've done just seems to scramble around, or not display at all - which is strange00:40
HazRPGshauno: ah dude, I just thought... hasn't inkscape been done to try and do things that gimp can't?00:42
shaunosorta.  gimp is raster-based, inkscape is vector-based00:43
ZoeRWell, I just tried out Gimp and it's acting like Photoshop does in terms of tool selection, which is good.00:43
HazRPGZoeR: thought it did :)00:43
ZoeROn the other hand, it looks like I've got my weekend sorted now because Ubuntu doesn't like my graphics tablet00:43
HazRPGshauno: oh, well yeah inkscape is more similar to illustrator00:44
ZoeRIt is only registering mouse movement if I'm pressing the pen to the tablet, which is fine for drawing lines but not good for moving the pen from place to place.00:44
ZoeRI think that's probably a config issue though00:44
HazRPGZoeR: which tablet is it?00:44
shaunoit'd be interesting if they could mate the two, and then get someone to completely ditch gimp's UI and start again.  not bandaid it.  fix it.00:45
ZoeRSome generic thing from Nisis00:45
ZoeRErk. It's almost 1am. I should probably get some work done.00:49
HazRPGZoeR: this might interest you: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AiptekTablet00:49
HazRPGZoeR: might help fix your tablet issue ;)00:49
ZoeROooh. Thanks! :D00:50
* ZoeR bookmarks that page to come back to later.00:52
HazRPGhopefully its not overly complicated00:52
ZoeRIt can't be more complicated than compiling my own kernel00:52
ZoeRCan it?00:52
* ZoeR found that really tricky the first few times00:52
HazRPGnah, much simpler than that :)00:54
ZoeRI always get worried when trying out a new kernel. I can't help thinking I'll have left out something fundamental, like keyboard support. Or memory.00:54
HazRPGjust reading through that page, in the examples it says its written the product ID as a generic one but might be better for putting your own in00:55
HazRPGI'm guessing the tablet is plugged via USB, if so just type in "lsusb"00:55
shaunoI always had the opposite problem.  trying to include so much in the kernel that it wouldn't fit on a floppy :/00:56
hamitronit fits on a floppy now? ;)00:56
shaunono idea, it's been quite a while since I had to do that :)00:56
HazRPGlook for your tablet in the list, and grab the product ID from that... it'll output it in this form: Bus xxx Device yyy: ID iiii:jjjj <device name>00:56
HazRPGthe jjjj is the product ID, and iiii is the vendor ID00:57
ZoeRCool. Thanks.00:57
hamitronshauno: I will be trying an older within the next week, see how I can get ubuntu working00:57
hamitronolder comp*00:57
HazRPGhopefully that made sense :)00:57
HazRPGdon't need to worry about xxx or yyy, that's just where they're connected on your motherboard :)00:58
shaunohamitron: used to be you could boot straight from the kernel, without requiring lilo & such.  been a *long* time since I tried it that way tho00:59
HazRPGshauno: technically you still can I think :S00:59
ZoeRYou can boot without lilo?00:59
* ZoeR didn't know that.01:00
ZoeRShows how much I know, doesn't it? It's always been there while I've been using Linux.01:00
shaunoa basic mbr (such as what windows used at the time, or the 'mbr' package in debian & ubuntu) just reads the partition table, picks the first partition it finds that's marked bootable, and starts execution from the start of the partition01:01
shaunoso dd the kernel into the boot partition, and reboot01:01
HazRPGZoeR: Hmm, ubuntu uses GRUB unless you tell it otherwise01:01
ZoeRYeah, I never liked Grub.01:01
HazRPGZoeR: any reason?01:01
ZoeRThe first distro I used was Red Hat 5.2 and it had Lilo. I understood how its config files worked and Grub worked differently, so I didn't like it.01:02
directhexcool kids use elilo01:02
* ZoeR is the embodiment of They Changed It Now It Sucks01:02
shaunogrub's a whole lot more powerful, so the extra configuration kinda comes with the territory01:02
HazRPGhmm, does lilo let you boot in straight from an iso?01:02
ZoeRNot that I recall01:03
shaunohah.  you'll have to challenge hamitron for that title :p01:03
directhexshauno, the main useful thing about grub is it has a shell, so you can dig yourself out of a hole01:03
HazRPGcan't say I've ever messed around with lilo other than it being on a fedora liveCD01:03
ZoeRBut if I challenged hamitron and won, that would change things and then I'd suck!01:03
directhexshauno, when lilo goes wrong, you need to chroot into your system to make it boot01:03
directhexfrom a cd or somesuch01:03
shaunodirecthex: I think the biggest point is that grub is fs-aware.  the shell would be useless without that :)01:03
* ZoeR has experience of lilo going wrong. :(01:04
ZoeRIt told me I didn't exist and should go away01:04
HazRPGhamitron: if your going to install on an old machine, I'd recommend doing it from ubuntu-server and then picking a desktop environment yourself, either that or use the alt-cd and pick recovery mode when after you've installed it - that way you can change the environment, because depending on what your going to put it on Gnome2 might not be the best plan for it01:04
ZoeRIf I hadn't had an essay to write at the time, I might have laughed at that01:05
shaunolilo doesn't go wrong.  it just turns into 'li'.  then sits there staring at you.01:05
HazRPGshauno: haha I have actually see that before01:05
HazRPGI've seen grub just sit at "grub>" before too though01:06
shaunoyou're meant to.  that's how you fault-find lilo.  you can usually guess the problem from how much of the word 'lilo' it prints out01:06
HazRPGshauno: wow, didn't know that01:06
ZoeRYeah, it's a nice error-reporting system but you have to know what it means to use it.01:07
HazRPGis it just me, but boot loaders just remind me of disney :/01:07
HazRPGgrub - lion king01:07
HazRPGlilo - lilo and stich01:07
shaunono more cryptic than boot beeps01:07
ZoeRNo, don't say that. Now every time I boot my computer I'll have "circle of life" in my head01:07
shaunowhat do you think the ubuntu logo is :p01:07
HazRPGshauno: ah, but boot beeps can vary with system to system - which is frustrating in itself01:07
ZoeRI had owned a PC for three years before I worked out that the beeps meant something!01:08
HazRPGZoeR: hehe :P01:08
* ZoeR thought it was just the sound chip turning on01:08
shaunothe servers we use at work atm have a row of 4 lights on.  when it boots they're all yellow, then they go green one by one.  it's really no different to lilo printing out one character at each stage01:08
shaunosimple works :)01:08
HazRPGZoeR: when I was 12 I assumed it was the computer telling you that things were go to go01:09
HazRPGalways felt like a PC was like an army wait, awaiting orders all the time01:09
ZoeRI just noticed the channel topic. Does that mean I just advertised my lack of knowledge to the world?01:09
ZoeR"this channel is publicly archived" and all that01:09
* ZoeR feels daft now01:09
HazRPGZoeR: I wouldn't worry, should see some of the stuff I come out with sometimes01:10
ZoeRI'll make a note to look later.01:10
HazRPGZoeR: haha01:10
hamitronHazRPG: I am going to use the mini.iso01:11
HazRPGhamitron: didn't realise there was one!01:11
shaunonot slating grub mind.  was just trying to put some kinda timescale to how long it's been since I had to build a kernel01:11
HazRPGshauno: I figured that :P01:11
HazRPGgotta admit, grub has come a long wait since its inception01:11
HazRPGargh, what's with my typing01:12
* hamitron has had less problems with lilo01:12
shaunoit's handy enough that I have a CD that just has grub on.  'nuff said01:12
HazRPGshauno: heh, I have it on a multi-boot pen drive01:12
HazRPGironically, grub boots up from lilo01:13
shaunonot syslinux?01:13
ZoeRHeh. Just got a text message saying "Yesterday was International Women Eating Pancakes Day"01:13
shaunolol, sorry01:13
HazRPGshauno: hmm, well its picked from a list - and looks lilo coloured, always assumed it was lilo01:13
shaunostong chance it's not.  lilo never got on well with CDs01:14
hamitronI remember hating the gui lilo started to provide01:14
shauno(lilo just dies if anything gets relocated.  that doesn't go down well with removable drives)01:15
HazRPGhamitron: hmm, that reminds me, keep meaning to do some mods to my grub-loader01:15
hamitrongrub always breaks with me, and I not even tried grub201:15
hamitronwell, tweaking anyway01:15
HazRPGhmm, you not running 10.10?01:16
HazRPGor even 10.0401:16
hamitronI have 10.04 on a test machine01:16
HazRPGhamitron: you seriously do hate change don't you :P01:16
hamitronI just expect hardware to work with my OS01:17
hamitronI upgraded all my old machines to a cheap batch of tnt2 cards01:17
hamitronand the new xorg won't work with old nvidia drivers01:17
hamitronso just waiting01:17
HazRPGyeah, but not updating one's software or even O/S related stuff ... is just leaving themselves prune to attacks (not that I'm paranoid or anything, he says looking over his shoulder)01:18
hamitronI get security updates for another month01:18
ZoeRI have to admit that Nvidia drivers on Linux are annoying. I hate having to tweak my display configs just to stop getting a headache when I boot the computer.01:18
HazRPGthat might be true, but older stuff only supports software up to a certain version01:18
hamitronI will be upgrading to 10.04 with open source drivers01:19
HazRPGI recall pidgin not allowing me to log into MSN because they're changed their protocol, and the pidgin in the repo wasn't updated for over 7 months01:19
ZoeREspecially when the system thinks everything is fine and will tell you this while the monitor is fizzing01:19
directhexi use fglrx :x01:20
hamitronand moving a few machines back to XP01:20
HazRPGhamitron: :o01:20
HazRPGdirecthex: is that the open-source nvidia drivers?01:20
directhexHazRPG, the closed-source ati driver01:21
ZoeRWell if you're going to use Windows, XP is the version to go with. It's the nicest of the lot.01:21
HazRPGZoeR: heh, computers can do some strange things sometimes01:21
hamitronHazRPG: that is why I think it is bad how some projects like xorg just advance so fast01:21
HazRPGmy favourite error message of all time is "to continue press any key" and people getting confused as to where the any key is01:21
ZoeRHazRPG: Yeah, don't I know it.01:21
directhexxp feels like what it is: a decade-old os to compete with suse 7.301:22
ZoeRCue the old "keyboard missing, press any key to continue" jokes01:22
shauno*F1 to continue01:22
hamitrondirecthex: but it works, ubuntu doesn't have drivers for it in the newer version01:22
HazRPGZoeR: haha that would be my favourite bios message01:23
ZoeRXP is okay. You can cut out the superfluous bumph, kill the teletubby GUI and get it to run fairly well.01:23
HazRPGshauno: it can vary from bios to bios01:23
shaunoit kinda makes sense.  "I can't find the keyboard; show me where it is"01:23
hamitronlinux used to be a way to recycle an old machine, but now it seems to drop support for hardware faster than MS OS01:23
directhexhamitron, for TNT2?01:23
hamitronand geforce 201:23
directhexhamitron, drv_nv still supports TNT201:23
HazRPGshauno: that would be a better message then asking you to press F101:23
hamitrondirecthex: with opengl?01:24
shaunoHazRPG: nah, too ambiguous.  you'd get some farmer waving the keyboard at the computer01:24
directhexhamitron, you want nvidia's proprietary driver on a tnt2?01:24
ZoeR"show me where it is" would just have the computer illiterate shaking their keyboards at the monitor, shouting "here it is, damnit! Look! Look!"01:24
HazRPGshauno: xD!!!01:24
ZoeRshauno: snap!01:24
HazRPGshauno: I actually have that image in my head now!01:24
hamitrontherefore I need X.org 7.3 or earlier01:24
hamitronI did look into CentOS, but it is compiled for i68601:25
shauno?  what's the target machine01:26
HazRPG"we've installed voice recognition software on your computer... it make take a while to get the pitch right, but it'll be fine go right ahead!"01:26
HazRPG"hello computer"01:26
HazRPGi386 I think he said the other day01:26
hamitronshauno: i58601:26
directhexhamitron, you need a 71.xx driver, which nvidia haven't bothered updating?01:26
HazRPGah bums, i586 even01:26
hamitronthey update for new kernels01:26
hamitronbut to support the new X.org would require a re-write01:27
* HazRPG has an urge to crack out the IT crowd DVD's now01:27
hamitronthey did re-write a lot of 96.xx specially01:27
shaunohamitron: seriously?  I think 586 maxes out around 233-300 ?01:28
hamitronmore in fact01:28
HazRPGhamitron: turbo button ;)01:28
hamitronI have 3 machines with 850mhz01:28
directhex586? noooo01:28
* HazRPG misses the days of turbo buttons01:28
hamitronVIA C3 cpu01:28
directhexoh... via01:28
hamitronAMD Geode01:28
directhexthose are technically cpus. technically01:28
directhexgive or take01:29
shaunoless give, more take01:29
hamitronjust missing some new instructions ;)01:29
directhexslightly slower than a minecraft cpu running in an emulator on a mobile phone01:29
hamitroncheap or free, are most my comps :)01:30
HazRPGZoeR: we don't always just talk computers in here btw, before we scare you off :P01:30
shaunoatleast the geode is meant to be low power01:30
hamitronthe VIA is01:30
shaunoso it's not going to cost you more in utility bills than it does in time wasted waiting for it to do something01:30
ZoeRHazRPG: I got my first computer when I was four. Talking about computers is fine with me. :)01:30
hamitronshauno: it is true it would be silly setting intensive tasks on these cpu01:31
directhexi tested a via system once01:31
directhex1ghz c701:31
directhexi wrote it off as an absolute waste of time and money01:31
hamitronc7 was a beast compared to the c301:31
shaunomy problem with via (and cyrix) is that they complete redefine what 'intensive' is01:31
directhexand c7 was beyond unusably awful01:31
hamitronI use all c3 machines fine01:32
hamitronwith 256mb ram01:32
HazRPGZoeR: wow, lucky - I didn't get my own computer till I was 8-10... I mainly hijacked my mum's when she wasn't trying to do essays, half the time she preferred using a type-writer or writing by hand anyways01:32
shaunoyou should try a gumstix01:32
shaunoruns from an AA, and possibly more powerful :)01:32
hamitrontbh, they are giving me less of a headache than these old nvidia cards01:32
ZoeRMy parents thought it would be a good idea to get my sister an I a computer because they were going to be "the next big thing". This was back in 1984 so I suppose they were ahead of their time in thinking that. I think they regretted it though, given the amount of time I spent on it.01:33
hamitronshauno: I will just use something that works on these machines, buying something to replace them is not really recycling :/01:34
directhexbest way to explain c7 is with how well it handles playing a video. http://img.hexus.net/v2/motherboards/via/pico/dvdrip-h264-big.jpg01:34
hamitronyou don't play video01:34
hamitronthey play mp3 fine01:34
shaunohamitron: if I didn't think the shipping would break the bank, I'd donate you my footrest01:35
shaunop4 celeron, somewhere around 2.3GHz I think01:35
shaunonot much use as a computer, so I use it as a foot rest01:35
hamitronbut they are useful...01:36
HazRPGZoeR: my dad kept catching me sneak out his Sharp MZ-721 to play games, that he eventually just gave me it since he never used it himself - he thought it was pointless because it barely did anything (was built in the 70's)01:36
hamitronallt his talk of c64 in here... and all i586 are faster01:36
hamitronall this*01:36
directhexand every via mhz is a crap mhz01:36
HazRPGstill can't believe that thing actually works too01:36
HazRPGstill actually works*01:37
directhexi clocked an amd64 at 1ghz, and compared to a 1ghz c7... http://img.hexus.net/v2/motherboards/via/pico/lametimes.jpg01:37
shaunothat's different.  a c64 is actually a different beast.01:37
ZoeRI think I remember the MZ-721. As I recall, a friend had one.01:37
shaunoyour via is just another x86.  just 20 years slower than the rest of them01:37
hamitronshauno: but still a machine that can be played with01:37
HazRPGZoeR: one of these: http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-026.jpg ?01:38
hamitronI know my VIA C3 850mhz is about equal to my AMD K6-2 450mhz, that performs like a p2 266mhz01:39
shaunothat's what makes me sad.  it'd atleast make sense if it was something that was useful when it was new01:39
hamitronthey were01:39
HazRPGironically, they were all marked as MZ-700's but on the bottom they had either MZ-711, 721 or 731 - there wasn't actually a MZ-700 (it was more just a generic name for it)01:39
hamitronlow power and fine for basic use01:40
ZoeRHazRPG: Yeah, that looks like the bunny! We used to play some weird game on it where a guy had to steal his clothes back off aliens. 'Streaker' or something, I think.01:40
hamitronI use them in jukebox systems01:40
HazRPGhamitron, I must agree with shauno... the c64 is a complete different kettle of fish!01:40
HazRPGZoeR: haha, yeah I remember that one :P01:40
directhexhamitron, i have an 800mhz ARM here you might like...01:41
hamitrondirecthex: I would like an arm sometime :)01:41
shaunonow that would be interesting01:41
ZoeRHazRPG: I eventually tracked down a copy for my Amstrad CPC but it wasn't worth the effort. By the time I got a copy for myself, it had lost its appeal.01:41
hamitronI have a 300mhz sparq...01:41
HazRPGZoeR: you can actually download an emulator for the MZ-700 series straight into ubuntu :)01:41
shaunoa pizza box?01:41
HazRPGand all the games and software are hosted on here legally: http://www.sharpmz.org/index.html01:41
ZoeRHazRPG: I'd better not. I'll never get any work done!01:41
directhexfunny thing is, via c7 is actually terrible for efficiency01:42
HazRPGZoeR: hehe, much like my c64 addiction I've got going on at the moment (oops!)01:42
hamitronI never saw the point of the c701:42
hamitronit was trying to be powerful for media, and failed01:42
directhexa 1ghz c7 is 9W01:42
directhexa 1.06ghz core 2 duo is 10W01:43
ZoeRHazRPG: I never had much time for the C64. People kept telling me it was superior to the CPC but I loved my Arnold too much to listen. :)01:43
shaunoI had a cpc :/01:43
hamitrondirecthex: I got my c3 on a motherboard for 20 quid each, brand new01:43
HazRPGZoeR: heh, yeah I was replaying some of the games on the MZ-700's on different machines which had been upgraded with better graphics and sounds - and didn't seem as good as the first time round01:43
directhexZoeR, we had the welshest of home computers01:43
shaunodrove me nuts because I had a cpc464, and the only person I knew with one had a 646.  so all his games were on disks, mine were on tapes.  booo.01:43
hamitronI am considering making a comp sometime01:44
hamitronusing a fpga01:44
HazRPGZoeR: see, I didn't get the craze back then either, but then again I would never have gotten one either way (parents thought I wouldn't do anything if all I did was play games all day long)01:44
* ZoeR had a CPC464 which was chip-swapped with a 6128 CPU. It was great01:44
directhexto what end?01:44
ZoeRI still have it, in fact01:44
shaunomine died of a ketchup overdose01:45
HazRPGZoeR: nice01:45
HazRPGshauno: oopsie!01:45
shaunoI thought it was a good thing at the time, meant we got a new computer :)01:46
HazRPGshauno: sounds like our first set of betamax drives, all my army men and other little toys kept finding their way inside and ruining them apparently01:46
HazRPGshauno: parents never did understand why I kept doing it (I was maybe 2 at the time)01:46
shaunohah.  I'm the eldest of 5.  we rented tv/vcr so that someone else would fix it01:46
HazRPGI have a feeling I kept doing it to hopefully see them show up on the TV - but never worked01:47
shaunoapparently the leading cause of vcr death in our house was cheese on toast, not army men01:47
* ZoeR goes to find her CPC01:47
HazRPGshauno: haha01:47
HazRPGZoeR: ooo, if you do, take pictures!01:47
HazRPGcan't say I know what a CPC actually is *_*01:48
HazRPGnever mind what one looks like!01:48
shaunothey really are a silly design.  if you don't want kids playing with it, don't put it 3" off the floor with a letterbox on the front01:48
HazRPGshauno: haha, very true!01:48
shaunocpc was an ugly bugger.  the keyboard was so ugly, that XP may have derived some inspiration from it01:49
HazRPGshauno: my parents eventually learned it was better to place balance the thing on top of the TV (thankfully had a flat top) that way I couldn't ruin any more betamax or vhs drives01:49
ZoeRThe CPC was lovely01:50
shaunonever had betamax, or top-loaders.  my parents worked for a living :p01:50
* ZoeR cuddles her CPC01:50
HazRPGshauno: hey! so did mine!01:50
HazRPGshauno: in fact, main reason I never saw my dad half the time, cos he worked out in saudi01:50
ZoeRWe had a top-loading VCR that lasted about eight times as long as any other VCR I owned01:50
shaunomine worked in the atlantic :)01:51
HazRPGshauno: can't say we ever owned a top-loader01:51
shaunoalso!  http://media.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/news/3206319/amstrad_cpc464.jpg01:51
HazRPGshauno: reason we had betamax was because all the tapes in saudi were only betamax form... so every time my dad came back with some for us to watch, we needed something to play them with01:51
HazRPGalso the reason we had a TV that was both PAL and NTSC at the same time01:51
shaunowhich was exactly what mine looked like, because it was the first computer I had that actually required a monitor, rather than a TV01:51
ZoeRhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/nobmouse/5513235457/ - my CPC, with extras01:51
shaunoI are not impressed with joystick01:52
HazRPGZoeR: heh, nice guessing you found it then :)01:52
ZoeRI didn't include the monitor in my picture because it is in the corner of my office, under a scanner01:52
HazRPGshauno: does look a bit dodgy doesn't it :P01:53
shaunoit's the wrong shape!01:53
ZoeRHazRPG: Yeah. It was under a coffee table with my shoes on it01:53
HazRPGshauno: also, what's wrong with that design? Beats the design of my fag-stain-looking MZ-70001:53
shaunoget a speedking.  your life will thank you :D01:53
ZoeRshauno: That particular type of joystick is designed to fit in the palm of the hand, with the fire buttons being activated by your index and middle fingers while the stick part is operated with the thumb01:54
shaunokonix <301:54
* HazRPG tries to work out what the black thing is in the background01:54
ZoeRAlso, for anyone with small hands, the Cheetah Bug was a godsend.01:54
HazRPGZoeR: interesting (the whole joystick thing)01:54
ZoeRHazRPG: Do you mean the shreader?01:54
HazRPGZoeR: ah is that what it is!01:55
shaunokonix sits in your palm instead of being suckered to the table too.  but worked better with gangly fingers01:55
HazRPGfor some reason I thought it was a computer01:55
ZoeRNope. Not a scanner either, despite what I told my cousin once.01:55
shaunogoodbye vacation photos?01:56
HazRPGman, I'd go get my mz-721, but its at my dad's, would take me half hr to get there and back >_<01:56
HazRPGnot that it matters, no one really lives there anymore01:56
ZoeRshauno: Unfortunately not. He's not as daft as he looks.01:57
* HazRPG giggles at the fact that someone *may* or *may not* have destroyed some photos/work with that prank01:57
shaunoyou'd think the box of hamster bedding would give it away01:57
HazRPGshauno: see, that would be cruel to say "its the hamster cage"01:58
HazRPGalthough, would be funny someone trying to shove cheese through the top :P01:58
shaunowell, yes.  pranking your cousin and shredding your hamster are on entirely different scales01:58
HazRPGshauno: !! I said nothing of shedding hamsters (for the record) - I'm not that cruel01:59
shauno(that should be a little bit sick, except the internet taught me that a gerbil in a blender is a funny thing)01:59
shaunoour heads will never be the same again.02:00
HazRPGshauno: is that the gerbil from the say guy who made supafly by any chance?02:00
HazRPGsame* not say*02:00
ZoeRWell it's 2am and I've done hardly any work today so I'm going to have to say goodnight, everyone.02:01
ZoeRGot to put the old nose to the grindstone02:01
HazRPGnever heard that phrase before02:01
HazRPGand also, ... aww your leaving us!02:01
ZoeRWhich, now I think about it, is a horrible phrase. What use would a ground nose be?02:01
ZoeRSorry. I'll be back later!02:02
* ZoeR waves02:02
HazRPG\o/ hurray!02:02
=== ZoeR is now known as ZoeR|Working
HazRPGZoeR|Working: see ya later02:02
HazRPGdirecthex: night dude02:02
shaunoHazRPG: yes, the supafly guy.  joecartoon :D02:03
HazRPGshauno: that's the guy! Couldn't think of his name :P02:03
shaunoit took me a smoke break to remember :/02:04
HazRPG"I'm supafly! Ya wanna know why! 'Cause I did this to yo mama!"02:04
HazRPGshauno: *shakes head around* wait you smoke too?02:04
HazRPGand it took you only 4 minutes to do? (assuming you went outside)02:05
HazRPGshauno: no need to be, I don't feel guilty that I do02:05
shaunoyes, and yes02:05
shaunoI've never smoked indoors, so michigan winters taught me to get back inside quick02:06
HazRPGjust because society has made it look bad (which yeah I know it is...), doesn't mean other things aren't worse for us - yet people aren't judged for that02:06
HazRPGI can imagine!02:06
shaunonah, I do think it's a fundamentally bad thing.  I just have zero willpower.02:07
HazRPGDoesn't it get up to like -20 or more up there!02:07
shaunoup's kinda the wrong word :)02:07
HazRPGshauno: its why its called an addiction :P02:07
HazRPGup, being that its to the left and above from where we're currently located02:08
HazRPGnot the temp. :P02:08
shaunoin 5 years, I saw -40 once.  pretty awesome02:08
HazRPGif that's your idea of awesome, I'd hate to see what your idea of epic is :P02:08
HazRPGI joke of course :P02:09
shaunohad to cycle into work at 6am because my boss couldn't get his car to start.  was a fun morning02:09
HazRPGdo I sense a hit of sarcasm in that :P02:09
shaunono, I actually enjoyed it02:09
shaunoodd to describe, but interesting being the only one that could get into town; usually I'd be laughed at for being the only one cycling in winter02:10
shaunomostly because I bought a silly car that couldn't drive in snow :D02:11
shaunomini's not fantastic for ground-clearance02:12
HazRPGwait, that must be a culture shock to go from driving one side of the road, to the... oh wait, I just remember ireland drives on the left too - ignore me02:12
shaunoireland's on the same side as the UK02:12
HazRPGhmm, must just be my dad's friends car then02:12
shaunoin the US, I honestly rarely noticed the difference02:12
shaunoif you're out in the sticks, you'll pull out of a junction onto the wrong side of the road02:13
HazRPGI learned to drive on the left originally when I was 14 by my uncles friend, was strange to actually sit my test when I was 18 in the UK02:13
shaunoif there's any other traffic on the road *at all*, your head figures out the whole concept of oncoming traffic very easily02:13
shaunoalso; http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2352.jpg02:14
HazRPGthe grill and the way the lights are formed, it almost looks like its frowning!02:14
HazRPGeither that, or severally pissed off02:15
shaunoI have a good one around here somewhere, but I'm not sure where02:15
shaunohttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/mini-chev.jpg   :D02:16
HazRPGclassic :)02:17
HazRPGhard to see mini's like that now02:17
HazRPGme and my friends use to play the mini-game02:17
shaunopunch herbie?02:18
HazRPG... that would be the one02:18
shaunowe played it with bugs :)02:18
HazRPGalthough we'd shout "mini-bop!"02:18
HazRPGI got double-points once for spotting a mini-pickup02:18
HazRPGnever even thought they'd existed!02:19
shaunothere's some proper funky minis02:19
shaunoI'd be torn between a mini-mini, and a moke, for which is oddest02:19
HazRPGlooked somewhat like this: http://www.toysonics.com/images/D/ppic07.jpg02:19
shaunoI've seen people take the back seats out and shorten minis.  ends up looking like a clown car02:20
shaunoand the moke was actually a production car, looked like "if jeep made minis"02:20
HazRPGman, why can't I find subs for this film :( http://www.nesworld.com/movie-lifein8bits.php02:21
HazRPGthe whole world expects us to translate our stuff, but they won't translate their stuff :(02:21
HazRPGshauno: nice02:21
* HazRPG does a quick google on moke02:21
shaunohttp://www.slowcarclub.com/santapod-07/cool-mini.jpg    that has to be the most awesome 'shortened mini' I've ever seen02:22
HazRPGhaha winner02:22
HazRPGbe a b**** in the rain though02:23
shaunoleaving the roof on isn't really an option :/  ends up like http://www.stupidvehicles.com/images/2009/jan/short_mini.jpg02:23
shaunobut they usually leave the windscreen alone, just like any other softtop.  that 'cool-mini' is one step more awesomer02:24
shauno(altho I'm still very fond of my "completely unadulterated 1974".  so much so that I haven't sold it yet.  it's still in a shed in michigan)02:25
shaunoI really should, it's costing me $150/month to store.  but we weren't meant to be here this long :/02:26
HazRPGwow amazing :)02:26
HazRPGwoah, I thought you meant it was at your mum's or something...02:26
shaunonope.  she left michigan not long after I did02:26
shaunoit's proper lonely02:27
shaunodownside of having my externals hooked up to my router.  this AEBS gizmo has pretty awful write speeds.02:28
shaunomay have to dig out an ethernet cord. the move I started when I figured out my root was full, has done 3 of 64Gb02:31
shaunoat which rate I'm pretty convinced is going to take >24hrs02:31
HazRPGwait, how's it connected right now? wireless?02:38
shaunodoesn't everyone use wifi with laptops?02:40
HazRPG<== wired02:40
shaunono point in a laptop you can't move :)02:41
HazRPGin more ways then one xD02:41
* HazRPG glugs some more red bull02:41
shaunoaltho with the screen dead, mine's anchored to the crt :(02:41
HazRPGshauno: my battery has recently decided to give way ... so I know the feeling02:42
shaunoreplacing it soon enough tho, so I can finally quit whining :)02:42
HazRPGshauno: I'm sad that my favourite range of HP laptops has died out :(02:42
shaunothat ...02:43
shaunovery low opinion of hp's consumer laptops02:43
HazRPGit came with Vista Business - so I would assume its marketed for business folk02:44
shaunothere's basically 3 options for laptops02:44
shaunoif you need something cheap & reliable enough to stock out a whole office, dell inspiron02:44
shaunoif you're buying for yourself, thinkpad or macbook pro02:44
=== ZoeR|Working is now known as ZoeR
ZoeR'Ello again02:45
HazRPGZoeR: \o02:45
* ZoeR waves02:45
HazRPGshauno: hmm, thinkpad? Really?02:45
ZoeRThe time has come when Relentless just isn't keeping me awake any more.02:45
HazRPGZoeR: I find caffeine has no effect on my anymore02:46
ZoeRI am going to grab a few hours of what those wacky people you see in the street may call 'kip'02:46
HazRPGI tend to have to go on detox every 6 months just for it to start working again02:46
ZoeRHazRPG: I know the feeling. I wish I didn't but I do.02:46
ZoeRI can't detox. I get headaches if I do and I fall asleep all the time02:46
HazRPGZoeR: that's the whole point of detoxing ;)02:47
ZoeRAlso, my medication makes me sleepy, so I need caffeine to function like a normal human being02:47
ZoeRSo I suppose it's bedtime for me.02:47
shaunocaffeine is vital.  too much blood in the caffeinestream makes people sleepy02:47
ZoeRshauno is right02:47
HazRPGheh, see my problem is I'm hyper by nature, so I need to feed myself caffeine to stay stable - which is rather weird to say out loud02:47
HazRPGwithout it, I'd be asleep most of the time02:48
HazRPGshauno: heh, yeah... can't have too much blood now can we :P02:48
ZoeRMmm... blood02:49
ZoeRI hear it is useful02:49
shaunoall good things in moderation :)02:49
ZoeRI don't like to have too much moderation.02:49
shaunowell, if you admit moderation is a good thing, then the statement would have to imply you also take moderation .. in moderation02:49
ZoeRI'm going to fall asleep at the keyboard here, which is never good02:49
ZoeRI did that at university once and ended up going to lectures with keyboard face02:50
ZoeRGoodnight, all02:50
HazRPGsee, the way I look at it... I'm different, because I need to help keep the bell-arch (think that's the term) a nice shape - it terms of people who are normal and not-normal02:50
shaunoalways heard it called a bell curve, but that may be a yankeeism02:51
HazRPGZoeR: well, if your off to bed... sleep well, and hopefully see ya around sometime soon :)02:51
HazRPGah crud, she left before I sent it02:51
shaunobut yes, it's only a curve if someone's willing to be the tail :)02:51
HazRPGexactly :P02:51
shaunoI simply think night is overrated02:51
shaunoI don't have to pull crops tomorrow.  I don't have to wake up the same time my prey does.02:52
shaunowe have electricity now.  and it's awesome.02:52
HazRPGI could have sworn it was a bell-arch (or bell-arc)02:52
HazRPGshauno: interesting, you have crop? and prey?02:52
shaunoI think the only real reason left for a 24hr sleep cycle, is that our parents trained us well.  and their (^n)parents before them02:54
shaunoHazRPG: no.  exactly why I don't have to let the sun be a deciding factor02:54
HazRPGoh, I'm with you02:54
shaunoliving around the sun made sense for cavemen.02:55
shaunowe have lightbulbs and stuff.02:55
HazRPGalso, why no two people have the same sleeping patterns anymore02:55
HazRPGI find the sun actually hurts my eyes now02:55
shaunothey had to be awake when the hunt was good.  I have to be awake when the internet's good.  except, the internet doesn't sleep02:55
HazRPGinternet doesn't sleep - but it does have traffic issues02:56
shaunonah.  it's always rush hour.  somewhere.02:56
* HazRPG loves it when people say they're stuck in traffic... when really they're the ones causing it - that concept amuses me02:57
shaunonot always02:57
shaunospike milligan reportedly drove slowly around country lanes, to create his own tailbacks.02:57
HazRPGshauno: ah, see that's true... however your data supplier will have peak times for sending your packets to other parts of the world02:57
shaunoclaimed that because it was his intentional creation, it was his own work of art02:57
HazRPGand will have times when its "clearer"02:57
HazRPGshauno: interesting02:58
shaunoand the $deity(/milligan) looked at what he'd created, and saw that it was good (or something)02:59
HazRPGI find driving around slow irritates me02:59
shaunoI'm meh on the whole speed thing02:59
shaunoa lot of it is perspective.  in a modern car you're so isolated that you need to go fast to notice you're still driving03:00
shaunothe mini feels like your butt is 2" off the floor.  every single corner feels like a go-kart ride.03:00
HazRPGsounds like my old 10603:00
shaunoas such, I find 30/40 perfectly acceptable, but abhor straight lines03:01
HazRPGyes I owned a pug as my first car :/03:01
shaunoI've owned 2 minis.  and '86 Sport in the UK, and a '74 mini in the US03:01
shaunounless I stumble on enough cash to get something stupid, I totally plan on my 3rd car being a mini :)03:02
HazRPGshauno: nah, the reason I find speed an issue is because on the motorway when your travelling in a straight line for several hours at a time - it just feels like your getting nowhere03:02
HazRPGbut on country roads, even getting to 40Mph feels fast03:02
shaunothat's exactly what I mean03:02
shaunoit's not slow that's the issue.  it's the lack of interaction03:03
HazRPGah I see where your getting at03:03
shaunocan you imagine 70 on a bicycle03:03
shaunopretend it's even possible, then compare to what 70 feels like when you're isolated away in your plastic cocoon03:04
HazRPGyeah, first car was a 106 because it was cheap (£90 cheap!) and survived my first year in it - until I decided I wanted something that didn't feel like I was boxed in (I get claustrophobic due to an elevator incident when I was younger)... so got myself a 206, then later got another 206 just so I could have a 5 door instead of a 3 door03:04
HazRPG(still finds the whole boot/trunk being considered as a door stupid!)03:05
shaunoyou can't be that claustrophobic if you don't consider the boot a 5th way out :p03:05
HazRPGmild claustrophobia03:06
shaunoI can't stand big cars.  floating around in a motorized couch is dangerous03:06
HazRPGdue to an being stuck in an elevator going up and down non-stop and not opening to any of the floors03:06
shaunoI fell asleep in a rental on a trip to indiana.03:07
shauno55 zoned, 80 on the cruise control, and took a lil nap until I hit the gravel trap03:07
HazRPGsimply because it was a REALLY old elevator, whereby the latch on each floor stopped it, however when the latch was clicked in place and someone pressed a button on a different floor at the same time - it would move again before you had chance to push the door open03:07
shaunoled me to believe cruise control is evil, straight roads are evil, and 20 hours of driving in a 24hr period is out-right idiotic03:08
HazRPGegyptians are impatient - so they'd mash the floor button until it got to them03:08
HazRPGwhich resulted in it going up and down constantly03:09
HazRPGit was also broken on the floor they were on too03:09
shaunoso you moved to the only nation on earth that knows how to queue properly :p03:09
HazRPGwow, yeah that does sound insane03:09
HazRPGshauno: education is the reason I moved lol03:10
HazRPGshauno: also, I live in saudi - they have normal elevators there (by normal, I mean they change them when newer models get released)03:10
shaunoI woke up when the wheel left the tarmac and into the drainage.  incredibly bad way to wake up03:10
HazRPGin egypt, some of those elevators have been there since the building was first created! Some are down-right ancient!03:11
HazRPGyeah I can imagine!03:11
shaunoremind me to use the stairs if I ever go to egypt :)03:11
HazRPGnah, you can tell the old elevators from the new03:11
HazRPGif its one where you have to open up by pulling - stairs is your best bet ;)03:12
shaunoI gotta say tho, the yanks are pretty crazy with straight roads that go on for miles.  they make the romans look like amateurs03:12
HazRPGhotels and stuff are all modern - its just the flats/apartments/whatever that you should worry about :P03:12
HazRPGheh, yeah the yanks do like their squares03:13
HazRPGI can understand why there were made like that03:13
HazRPGthey wanted a bit of order, and make it look good and place as much per square metre03:14
shaunoI think a lot of it is simply a lack of land boundaries03:14
HazRPGhowever when the popularity of cars just makes it not practical03:14
shaunobut things like http://goo.gl/maps/DdFj03:14
shauno10 miles in a straight line.  I've never been down that without stopping03:15
HazRPGhmmm interesting03:15
shaunonothing but trees, just on and on and on.  messes with your head03:15
HazRPG10 miles only?03:15
HazRPGah, well when you put it like that03:15
HazRPGthought our motorway was bad03:15
HazRPGI can get from carlisle to preston without having to stop03:16
shaunoI think that one's a 5003:16
HazRPGbut only if I've been awake for 3 hours or so before doing it, ... if I've been awake say 12 hours... doing that stretch will just put me to sleep almost03:16
shaunoand you can't speed in the backend of nowhere.  every backwater PD that can call the main road their juristiction, milks it for fines03:17
HazRPGcarlisle -> preston = ~88 miles roughly03:17
HazRPGshauno: wow, no way!03:17
HazRPGI thought our speed cameras were bad03:18
HazRPGand the mobile speed cameras03:18
HazRPGhowever the law states that they must be visible and bright yellow!03:18
shaunothey don't do gatsos so much03:18
shaunoI don't imagine they'd last long in hick country :)03:18
shaunobesides, that part of the country is a little strange.  they get enough snow that a lot of roads aren't quite that permenant03:19
HazRPGthat's insane03:20
HazRPGhowever, I'm amused the 13938N 13962N doesn't have two parts to it too03:21
shaunothey're house numbers03:21
HazRPGI figured that :P03:21
HazRPGthat's why I'm surprised it doesn't have an extended part for winter03:21
shaunoheh, nah, you don't pick your number03:21
shaunoit's the number of yards from the start of the road, to the start of your property03:22
HazRPGreally, that's... err... odd03:22
HazRPGbut I suppose makes sense03:22
shaunoit makes sense in the sticks.  it means addresses form directions03:22
shaunopeople can look at it and go "so I turn onto foo, and drive north 8 miles"03:24
shaunoinstead of having to crawl along reading numbers all the way there03:24
HazRPGnow this is an insanely long road!03:25
shaunoit also makes it really easy to subdivide property, because each new part gets a new boundary, so a new number03:25
shaunoif you have 2, 4, 6, 8, and 6 wants to subdivide .. you get 2, 4, 5.5, 6, 6.5, 8 ?03:26
HazRPGprobably doesn't look like much, but read the marker at the bottom-left that shows how its scaled03:26
shaunoyeah, deserts are silly :)03:26
shaunoI used to love this coast road, because it was the closest thing I could find to corners :/   http://goo.gl/maps/SnIj03:28
shaunocouple of nice hairpins in it too03:29
shaunonot a twisty road by any means, but closest respite I could find from their grid-pattern craziness03:29
HazRPGI always felt sorry for my dad each time he had to do this drive: http://goo.gl/Ccefp03:30
HazRPGheh yeah, that looks like most motorway roads here in the UK almost03:31
HazRPGI have a feeling there's a reason why google makes can work out the two points in saudi is because of saudi law (I think)03:32
HazRPGI swear it's the auto-correct that's causing my spelling mistakes03:32
HazRPGit can't be my typing, surely :S03:32
shaunohah, it's no motorway.  it's narrow enough that you have to slow & pull in when there's a car coming the other way03:32
shaunoit's a silly road that's only there because the rich people like to stick huge houses on the coast03:33
HazRPGI meant in its construct, not by its width :P03:33
shaunogood lord wikipedia loves minutia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-119_(Michigan_highway)03:34
HazRPGI wonder if I can find my old house on here!03:34
shaunolast one before I shut up about it ..03:37
shaunoI like how maps tries to blend completely different pictures :)03:37
shauno(summer vs winter in one shot is neat tho)03:37
HazRPGholy cow, I thought my dad was kidding when he said that the place had been expanding, but man I can't even tell which way is up anymore!03:38
HazRPGhaha, yeah that does look random03:38
shaunoshows why people shouldn't leave their jetties out over winter tho.  huge weak patches in the ice around them03:39
shaunoit's pretty neat when everything freezes up tho.  the bay I lived on, they cleared a road over to the main town each winter03:40
shaunoso if you're brave/stupid enough, you could shortcut across the ice03:40
HazRPGfree ice ride to town03:40
shaunowe tried to find the edge of the ice one winter, but my brother started jumping up and down making it creak, so I went back :/03:41
HazRPGah, sod it can't find my old house03:42
HazRPGbut I have found my FAVOURITE part of the city of all time03:43
HazRPGI could spend days in there without getting bored: http://goo.gl/XfCMa03:43
HazRPGhehe, your brother must have been brave :P03:43
HazRPGthe road your looking for on that section is "al olaya st"03:44
shaunoor stupid :)03:44
HazRPGthat name amused me, because "oola" or "ula" means "first"03:44
HazRPGolaya technically means "the really first" I think03:45
HazRPGbut I don't think it means that in saudi arabic03:45
HazRPGwas my favourite street for one simple reason03:45
HazRPGthere's a 2 mile stretch on there that's just computer shops from one side to the next03:46
HazRPGcalled "the computer souk"03:46
HazRPGsouk = market03:46
HazRPGalso, home to where my best friend lived too03:47
HazRPGhe lived at the top of one of the computer shops there03:47
HazRPGduring the summer, I would stay at his for 1-2 weeks at a time03:47
HazRPGand we'd just drool over all the stuff we could never buy (or begged our parents to buy it for us)03:48
shaunoI appear to be missing all my photos before 2006.  a little worried :/03:48
HazRPGall my photos are in saudi :/03:48
HazRPGplus... I never really took photos much, I thought it was pointless back then03:49
HazRPG(even though I did own a camera that actually put a different turtle on a corner)03:49
HazRPGout of the 4 turtles of course03:49
HazRPGvery high tech :P03:49
HazRPGurgh don't you just hate it when trackers have no peers :/03:54
HazRPGbeen trying to download this documentary for hours now03:54
shaunolooks like that's going to be my job for tomorrow.  sit down 'n write a crawling to go thru 4 drives trying to find my pictures :/03:58
HazRPGheh, I have roughly 10 hard drives or more that has data03:58
HazRPGI keep meaning to go out and buy some hard drives and move the data types to each hard drive by themselves03:59
HazRPGone for music & videos03:59
HazRPGand the other for everything else03:59
shaunohopefully someone's still maintaining the -xml patch for jhead03:59
shaunofor now, I think I'm gonna go grab coffee & head to bed04:01
shaunomy photos always had a very awkward naming structure that makes them a pain to tidy up; I just name each file for it's own md5sum04:02
shaunothere was a reason for it, many years ago.  I can't fathom what it was anymore tho.04:02
shaunoman I wish lacie would hurry up with their 'thunderbolt' enclosure.  that'd make this much happier04:08
HazRPGheh, random04:09
HazRPGI can imagine you using md5sum to be able to check if the image was edited somehow04:09
HazRPGtrying to find this documentary - but can't find it anywhere!04:10
shaunoI think I just wanted unique filenames because I was doing something terribly ugly04:10
HazRPGalso, coffee before bed? Wow caffeine really has no effect on you either :P04:10
HazRPGI usually have a few cups before bed04:10
shaunocoffee with milk = settle down for bed :)04:10
HazRPGoh well this seems interesting too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4imzFPIRTY04:11
* HazRPG goes to grab some mountain dew04:12
HazRPGis it bad that I'm hooked on the whole 8-bit era again :?04:13
knightdroideveryone ok today07:01
AlanBellmorning all07:17
HazRPGwoo! I think my c64 just arrived!07:20
* HazRPG rushes to the door07:20
TheOpenSourcerermorning earthlings/07:20
knightwisea c64 ? cool beans07:22
* knightwise has his one tucked away upstairs07:22
* HazRPG begins to tear box apart07:23
HazRPGknightwise: I should have 2 in this box ;)07:23
knightwisecooo.  what are you going to do with them ?07:23
HazRPGwell I actually only wanted the one, but the guy had listed both up on ebay under one listing... so I went for it :D07:24
HazRPGwon it at ~£20 (with £20 p&p, so ~£40 total)07:25
HazRPGhaha, aces... all here :D07:25
knightwisetape tapedrive ? floppy ?07:25
HazRPGdatassette included + joystick + 6 games07:25
HazRPGonly 1 power brick however07:25
HazRPGand no video output cable07:26
HazRPGnot in original box neither... but still awesome D07:26
HazRPGI was hoping the A/V cable I bought would have arrived first tbh :(07:27
HazRPGso that I could use it when it got here07:27
HazRPGbut seems I shall have to wait a day or two more for that (could also arrive later on in the day too)07:27
HazRPGwinner, all here :D07:27
HazRPGholy cow the power brick is heavy07:28
HazRPGwonder if its possible to make a smaller version of this thing07:29
HazRPGlooks like I may have to get the good ol' cleaning products out too, seems to be covered in dust07:29
HazRPGnow for the real test I guess - does it look like its been tampered with...07:31
HazRPGwow, did these things not have caps to cover the ports back then :S07:33
HazRPGhmm, this case has defo been taken apart before (not liking this)07:33
knightwiseall dusty and grimy07:34
knightwisei had a plastic case to cover the keyboard07:34
HazRPGwow, these must have been a pain to type on07:35
HazRPGI don't recall my mz-721 being this bad07:35
knightwisenaah it was ok07:35
knightwiselovely sound07:36
HazRPGthe normal keys don't have sounds, only the spacebar does lol07:36
HazRPGI forgot springs were used for keys back then :P07:36
knightwisespringy 'twing' sound07:36
HazRPGwell seems I've got a c64 and a c64c07:38
HazRPGthis could be interesting07:38
knightwisea c ???07:38
HazRPGif I make tunes with one, it might sound really different on the other07:38
knightwisedifference ?07:38
HazRPGknightwise: yeah the c64c was a revision of it07:38
HazRPGthe whole case was changed in the c64c to make it look like the c12807:39
HazRPGthe SID chip was also different too07:39
HazRPGthe c64 used the SID 6581, and the c64c either had the SID 8580 or the 658207:39
knightwiseaah yoi have white ones ?07:39
HazRPGone white, one brown07:40
* knightwise has a beige one07:40
HazRPGalthough the white one is more beige then it is white07:40
HazRPGSID 8580 and 6582 are the exact same chip, they just had didn't numbers depending when they were printed07:41
HazRPG6581 was the better chip07:41
HazRPGSID = Sound Interface Device07:41
HazRPGwas what gave the c64 its edge as far as sound went07:41
HazRPGwas hoping for 2 c64's07:41
HazRPGbut oh well :)07:41
HazRPGleast I can test the tunes out with both chips :)07:41
HazRPGI really don't like that the c64 was opened before07:42
HazRPGalso has a missing screw07:43
HazRPGI'm hoping he didn't rip out the SID chip07:43
HazRPGwould be useless for what I want to use this for without it07:43
HazRPGonly one way to find out I guess :P07:45
HazRPGhmm, well the chip is still there :D07:46
HazRPGhowever, I have no idea what this white liquid/cream stuff is on two of the pins!07:47
HazRPGany hardware geeks about with any insight?07:47
knightwisei needz to google to see if its possible to add podcasts to gpodder via the command line08:03
HazRPGwell I've managed to clean out the pins, and get rid of some dust that was lying around in there08:08
HazRPGseems to be an original 1984 one too :)08:08
knightwisewhere you even born back then ?08:09
HazRPGnope, not for another 3 years xD08:09
* knightwise is from 7408:10
HazRPGsadly :(08:10
knightwisehowso ?08:10
HazRPGI was totally born in the wrong era08:10
knightwiseme too08:10
HazRPGI would have loved to have lived through the 80's and actually remembered it08:10
knightwisei have been there08:11
HazRPGI have vague memories from when I was 2-308:11
* knightwise remembers band aid08:11
HazRPGheh, you were born in the 70's but not old enough to live it the way your parents might have though ;)08:11
knightwisemy parents are waaaaaay oldef08:12
HazRPGthat's my point, they'll have seen the 70's the proper way :)08:12
HazRPGmuch like how mine will have seen the 80's the proper way08:12
HazRPGalthough my dad's probably old enough to be your dad08:12
knightwise70's  free love and lots of pubic hair08:13
HazRPGsurprised he's not retired yet :/08:13
HazRPGknightwise: that's the one :P08:13
* knightwise shudders08:13
HazRPGnot fair, I was totally born of the wrong year >_<08:14
HazRPGI owned a mz-721 though08:14
knightwiseblank  whats that ?08:14
HazRPGold 70's computer my dad had08:15
HazRPGthis puppy right here: http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-026.jpg08:15
HazRPGironically, better built then the c64 - but lack of decent hardware inside it08:15
knightwisetoo bad08:16
HazRPGalthough it did sport its very own sound card08:16
HazRPGhowever, when I say sound card - its more like a system beep speaker08:16
* knightwise keeps on to an old crt tv for his c6408:16
HazRPGcan't believe I have a c64 in my hand, and a TV to plug this sucker into - but no A/V jack >_<08:17
HazRPGis it bad that I'm thinking about ripping the c64c out and trying to mod it into my mz-72108:18
HazRPGdaubers: morning08:19
HazRPGman, would be a shame to do that08:19
HazRPGhmm, interesting, the bottom says "Made in England" but the chips inside say "Made in Hong Kong"08:21
daubersHazRPG: Chips where made in HK and the final assembly done in UK :)08:25
daubersHazRPG: I have a speccy I think I've managed to repair, but need to make up a new AV cable for it08:25
HazRPGdaubers: nice :)08:26
HazRPGwhat was wrong with it?08:26
daubersHazRPG: burnt out resistor oddly enough08:27
HazRPGtime/use will do that to older resistors though08:30
HazRPGstill can't believe the back of these c64's are bare where the expansion slots are08:30
HazRPGthat just seems like bad design to me08:31
HazRPGdaubers: hmm, you might know!08:35
HazRPGdaubers: what would the white creamy stuff be that's formed around the SID chip on the c64 I have?08:35
HazRPGor what would cause that?08:36
HazRPGI've cleaned it up as best I can, but would that mean the SID chip is nacked though?08:36
HazRPGDJones: howdy, and morning squire08:37
screen-xmorning :)08:38
HazRPGscreen-x: morning :)08:38
DJonesHazRPG: Did the white stuff look as though it belonged there like some form of sealant or protection, or was more like a corrosion08:40
HazRPGwell all the other chips don't have this white stuff, so one would assume its not meant to be there08:41
HazRPGhowever it did look like it seeped out from the actual pins itself08:42
HazRPGI actually took out the SID, and it could have started from where the chip was pressed08:43
HazRPGhowever I doubt it should be there08:43
HazRPGsince, it was touching 2 pins - which would short it out if im not mistaken08:43
HazRPGbut honestly, I haven't a clue08:45
* HazRPG wished he took photos08:45
screen-xis there a kernel parameter I can use to prevent nfs filesystems from being mounted?08:49
screen-xboot is hanging on mountall, as it seems to be happening before network config :(08:49
screen-xBefore I added nfs entries to fstab, the system would boot fine and configure networking correctly.08:50
DJonesscreen-x: Is it just a bad mount point in fstab? I've had a similar thing but boot would complete after about 5 minutes waiting08:51
screen-xDJones: The mount point is good, as mount -a worked before rebooting.08:52
DJonesscreen-x: Does it eventually boot despite the hanging for a while08:53
screen-xDJones: just rebooting now, I'll leave it for 10 mins and see if it gets through.08:53
screen-x[timestamp] mountall terminated with status 3208:56
MartijnVdSscreen-x: boot in rescue mode, no network08:56
screen-xMartijnVdS: it still attempts nfs mounts, even in rescue mode.08:57
MartijnVdSno idea :(08:58
DJonesscreen-x: Did that boot in the end then apart from not mounting the nfs mounts09:01
screen-xDJones: only had 4 minutes... on the console it appears to be hung, haven't got a login prompt yet.09:01
screen-xinterestingly, I can ping the machine (so networking must be up) but can ssh in (sshd is installed..) nmap shows only port 111 as open.09:02
screen-xs/can ssh/can't ssh/09:02
DJonesscreen-x: Doesn't sound good, I've always found that it mine would eventually boot once the nfs attempts timed out09:03
screen-xI'll give it a few more mins.09:03
MartijnVdSscreen-x: init=/bin/bash :)09:04
screen-xMartijnVdS: good thinking.09:04
DJonesscreen-x: Going back to the original question http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt lists "NFS - Appropriate NFS support is enabled." Don't nkow if that will help09:06
screen-x10 minutes is up, no bootage. Going to try init=/bin/bash09:07
screen-xthese problems must have been really tiedous before ipmi and irc!09:08
screen-xhmm init=/bin/bash didn't seem to have any effect :(09:11
MartijnVdSscreen-x: strange.. it should have started bash instead of init.. giving you POWARR09:11
DJonesSounds like a livecd is called for09:12
screen-xDJones: live cd is complicated, as it doesnt include ifenslave and vconfig (needed for networking) or lvm2 (needed to mount disks..)09:13
MartijnVdSscreen-x: alternate CD/custom remaster?09:13
screen-xooh yes, the alternate cd does have lvm, I wonder if it has the networking utils.09:14
mungojerrywow, it was busy in here last night..usually there's about 600-700 lines missed when i leave pidgin on overnight in this channel...last night 120009:14
screen-xshould I use 'single' in conjunction with init=/bin/bash? or does single have no effect when init isnt used?09:15
MartijnVdSscreen-x: it shouldn't09:15
screen-xjust realised I was specifying init=/bin/bash in the wrong place..09:15
MartijnVdSscreen-x: +have an effect.. maybe in initrd though09:15
screen-x\o/ prompt09:16
daubersHazRPG: I'd hate to think...09:20
MartijnVdSHazRPG: it's condensed magic smoke09:20
HazRPGdaubers: ?09:20
HazRPGMartijnVdS: ???09:20
MartijnVdSHazRPG: that, or you're having WAY too much fun with your SID chips09:20
MartijnVdSHazRPG: 09:35 < HazRPG> daubers: what would the white creamy stuff be that's formed  around the SID chip on the c64 I have?09:21
mungojerryHazRPG: does it look like the stuff where capacitors blow?09:21
HazRPGmungojerry: I don't even know what that would look like :/09:21
MartijnVdSHazRPG: gooey09:21
daubersHazRPG: Where have you been storing the c64?09:21
mungojerrycaked on crusty white stuff09:21
MartijnVdSor crusty, yes09:21
HazRPGMartijnVdS: heh, I wish - I don't have an A/V cable yet (apparently it was sent 19 hrs ago though)09:22
HazRPGmungojerry: ah, much like what you'd see on a battery!09:22
HazRPGmungojerry: then no09:22
HazRPGmungojerry: was still moist, and creamy...09:22
MartijnVdS.. ew09:22
mungojerrythis is so wrong09:22
HazRPGlooks like, erm... cream!09:22
mungojerryc64 love09:23
HazRPGdirty minded so and so's!09:23
screen-xyay, edited fstab from initrd prompt, rebooted and has come up fine.09:23
MartijnVdSmungojerry: too much love if you ash me 8-)09:23
* HazRPG rolls eyes09:23
* DJones thinks ewww09:23
screen-xnow to work out why nfs mounts are causing the boot to fail.09:23
MartijnVdSscreen-x: because nfs mouns come up before vconfig does its magic?09:24
MartijnVdSscreen-x: firewall issues?09:24
MartijnVdSscreen-x: portmapper issues?09:24
screen-xMartijnVdS: no firewall yet09:24
daubersscreen-x: nfs server down?09:24
daubersnetworking issue?09:24
screen-xdaubers: no server is ok09:24
mungojerrycould be glue09:24
screen-xnetworking issue is likely, the actually error given is name resolution failed.09:24
mungojerryhow does it taste HazRPG09:24
screen-xbut I can ping, so networking does come up eventually, but it sounds like it tries to mount before that.09:25
HazRPGmungojerry: errmmmm... I wasn't going to lick it now was I! :P09:25
HazRPGhowever, I was brave and wiped a bit with my finger - and it wasn't sticky09:26
MartijnVdSHazRPG: Time to get out your chemistry kit, lab coat and goggles09:26
MartijnVdSHazRPG: FOR SCIENCE09:26
livingdaylighthow much does  virtualbox drain ubuntu resources?09:27
livingdaylightfelt my system get distinctly sluggish09:28
MartijnVdSdepends on the guest :)09:28
screen-xlivingdaylight: virtualbox can be pretty fast, if you have hardware virtualisation and enough ram to not swap.09:29
livingdaylighthardware virtualization?09:29
mungojerryHazRPG: without seeing a picture, i have a feeling that it's some epoxy or glue that they used to put on the boards, it may have altered a bit over 30 years and become more liquid09:30
MartijnVdSHazRPG: yes.. take a picture! mungojerry: great idea :)09:30
livingdaylightI have a 64x system but run ubuntu 32bit... Can I still run win7-64x in VB?09:30
MartijnVdSlivingdaylight: why not use a 64-bit Ubuntu?09:31
screen-xlivingdaylight: intel vt or amd-v09:31
livingdaylightscreen-x, and does one ideally share ram 50/50 or is 1gb sufficient for w7 on vb?09:31
screen-xlivingdaylight: you can run 64bit guests on a 32bit host if you have hardware virtualisation support as mentioned above.09:32
livingdaylightMartijnVdS, don't remember, it was a few releases ago, when it was deemed 32-bit was easier for somethings which 64x hadn't caught up to yet (optimally - flash?) And I've just been upgrading I don't know how many releases in a row now, so, havnent reinstalled yet. Maybe next time09:33
screen-xlivingdaylight: I dont know how much ram win7 needs to be happy, as I haven't used it.09:33
livingdaylightscreen-x, thx. I don't know whether I have intel vt or not09:33
MartijnVdSlivingdaylight: check /proc/cpuinfo09:33
screen-x!info cpu-checker09:34
lubotu3cpu-checker (source: cpu-checker): tools to help evaluate certain CPU (or BIOS) features. In component main, is optional. Version 0.1-0ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 6 kB, installed size 60 kB09:34
livingdaylightcommand not found... do I need to install cpu-checker?09:35
MartijnVdSlivingdaylight: no, you run "kvm-ok" :)09:35
screen-xthat contains kvm-ok which tells you if you have hardware virtualisation.09:35
mungojerryguys, software-center is still core dumping on natty, can anyone confirm?09:35
livingdaylightI have cpu-checker installed, but /proc/cpuinfo says command not found09:36
screen-xlivingdaylight: run kvm-ok09:36
livingdaylightrun kvm?09:37
screen-xrun "kvm-ok"09:37
livingdaylightKVM acceleration can NOT be used09:37
screen-xahh :(09:38
livingdaylightis that the clue?09:38
MartijnVdSyou might be able to enable it in the BIOS09:38
livingdaylightgood idea, I'll have a peek09:39
MartijnVdS\o czajkowski09:42
danfish\o/ czajkowski09:44
danfishdoes anyone know an easy recipe to make a python script into an upstart job?09:46
HazRPGczajkowski: howdy!09:50
czajkowskigonna be a sleepy slow day09:50
DJonesczajkowski: WAKE UP !09:50
HazRPGmungojerry, MartijnVdS... you would say after I'd closed the thing off already and wiped most of it off :P09:51
czajkowskiso cant do that today09:51
* daubers passes czajkowski the coffee09:51
HazRPGhang on, I'll get my 8MP camera and see if I can get a decent photo of what remains on it09:51
czajkowskialready had 3 mugs of the stuff09:52
* mungojerry wishes he liked tea09:54
MartijnVdSmungojerry: practice, practice, practice09:55
mungojerryi tried :(09:55
mungojerrydrank it until i was about 11..09:55
mungojerryit makes me feel sick to think of the smell, or the taste09:55
* DJones points czajkowski at http://www.energyfiend.com/2007/01/meth-coffee-super-caffeinated-coffee09:56
czajkowskipopey: http://www.nymr.co.uk/special-events/mini-events/volunteer-recruitment-open-day/09:57
daubersmungojerry: Maybe you where doing it wrong09:58
daubersmungojerry: Coming to oggcamp?09:58
mungojerrywhere is it ?09:58
daubersmungojerry: Hampshire somewhere (not been fully announced yet)09:59
daubersmungojerry: Best to take it as "Somewhere nearish popey" as that's the full extent that's been released :)09:59
AlanBellwhich isn't Hampshire :)10:00
screen-xhave dates been announced?10:00
daubersThought Frn was hampshire? Is it herts?10:00
mungojerrydaubers: it's nearer than liverpool, so maybe.!10:01
AlanBellI believe Popey lives in Surrey10:01
* mungojerry wishes it was herts instead :P10:01
* popey does not10:01
* AlanBell checks the border location10:02
* TheOpenSourcerer thought the Price of Wales was in Hants.10:02
popeyI can see Surrey from my desk10:02
popeyIt is10:02
* czajkowski is in Surrey10:02
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: we're having a BBQ in Sirius on March 30th for document freedom day.10:02
TheOpenSourcererI am in Surrey and about 0.5m from Hampshire.10:02
daubersIt's that area where everything is close enough to be each other really :)10:02
* Tommeh slaps czajkowski with a Filbert10:03
TheOpenSourcererThere is a pub near me that has one door in Surrey and one in Hampshire so I have been told.10:03
* TheOpenSourcerer looks at his calendar.10:03
czajkowskiTommeh: oi!10:03
czajkowskiwho the hell is tommeh10:03
czajkowskigo poke Filbert elsewhere10:04
TheOpenSourcererIsn't he one half of cannon & ball?10:04
Tommeh* Tommeh slaps Filbert with mzje-10:04
Tommeh^ Done, czajkowski10:04
JamesTait'Allo 'allo!10:05
MartijnVdS...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jRjSb3408I10:05
mungojerrymy dad lives in farnham and in-laws in surrey so could be a nice trip10:05
AlanBellfarnham ftw10:05
mungojerryhad my wedding reception at uni of surrey10:06
daubersmungojerry: If you do, I'll bring some proper tea10:07
* mungojerry likes peppermint tea10:08
* screen-x has climbed the giant golf ball at the surrey uni10:08
* mungojerry worries that if he drank real tea, he might be the first person to spew at oggcamp10:08
mungojerryscreen-x: it doesn't look safe10:09
mungojerryhas a question about life...as usual10:10
mungojerryis it safe to sleep with your head under the covers? i wonder if i get enough oxygen at night10:11
AlanBelldrinking Pimms at the last oggcamp http://www.flickr.com/photos/webmink/4574060621/10:11
screen-xcold house mungojerry?10:11
mungojerryscreen-x: dunno, i think it's light and comfort related.10:12
AlanBellapparently videos from the last oggcamp will be available "soon"10:12
mungojerrymy dog does the same in her bed10:12
screen-xmungojerry: maybe use a snorkel?10:12
mungojerrysurely the CO2 concentration must be pretty high10:12
popeyindeed AlanBell  :(10:15
AlanBellpopey: I had a recent update on this10:16
AlanBellsomething to do with slide timings10:16
AlanBellall seems overcomplicated to me10:16
AlanBellpoint camera, download file from camera, stick on youtube/blip.tv, done.10:17
popeythats what I did at UDS10:19
AlanBellyeah, that worked10:19
AlanBellI really wanted my oggcamp presentation up and available before the election10:20
screen-xdidnt daubers put some up?10:20
popeyhe did10:20
daubersI did!10:21
daubersDon't have a video camera anymore though :(10:21
daubersMight try and borrow one or two for next oggcamp10:21
popeyi have one :)10:22
daubersIf I can borrow a mini NAS from work I'll try and setup an automated blip upload10:22
popeythat would be neat10:22
daubersdump files in folder, every 10 minutes it uploads to blip and moves the files out10:22
popeysomeone still needs to maintain the meta data at blip10:22
daubersYeah, that shouldn't be too arduous though10:23
daubersMight have a nose through their api10:23
AlanBellI have a camera, but it is mini-dv and firewire and I don't have a computer with firewire any more10:23
daubersThat I might be able to solve also....10:24
daubersThough it may mean using non-free systems :-s10:25
* popey has just setup http://oggcamp.blip.tv/10:25
HazRPGmungojerry: you still about dude?10:25
HazRPGcurrently uploading snaps10:25
* daubers ponders moving his mail server back to google apps10:26
daubersHorro of dealing iwht postfix update recently has made me really consider it again10:26
popeyhttp://www.youtube.com/user/oggcamp also now setup10:27
daubersyoutube can also have it's uploads automated iirc10:28
HazRPGmungojerry: https://picasaweb.google.com/hazrpg/C64 pick your fancy out of the crop10:29
daubers\o/ http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/1.0/developers_guide_python.html10:29
HazRPGmungojerry: best I could do10:29
HazRPGspecially considering I wiped as much as I could earlier10:29
HazRPGmungojerry: 2nd and 3rd picture is basically a white stain similar to that found on the chip - although that one is dry10:30
HazRPGthe white rig at the top of the chip appears to still be wet, but I thought that shouldn't cause any problems - my main concern was the pins10:31
screen-x"mount.nfs4 DNS resolution failed for"10:39
screen-xO RLY?10:39
mungojerryHazRPG: i'm back...10:39
mungojerrylol i found an amiga that had been thrown out by neighbours10:40
mungojerryplus LOADS of games10:40
mungojerryi took it into the house...mrs mungojerry gave me one of those looks...10:41
mungojerryi looked at my existing pile of dead and old tech gadgets and took it back outside10:41
mungojerrystill kept the mouse for some reason10:41
mungojerryand the expansion pack10:41
mungojerryHazRPG: does the C64 work?10:42
HazRPGmungojerry: unsure...10:46
HazRPGmungojerry: still waiting on my A/V cables10:46
HazRPGmungojerry: :o!!!10:47
HazRPGyou did what!10:47
HazRPGI would have taken it off you!10:47
* HazRPG hordes old hardware too10:47
mungojerryi had no attic at the time10:47
mungojerryAKA man-space10:48
mungojerrymy wife never goes up there10:48
dwatkinsmungojerry: where do you live, I'll drive over an dpick it up ;)10:48
mungojerrydwatkins: next time i find stuff like that i'll come here :)10:48
mungojerryi also have a broken ibook g410:48
czajkowskidaubers: I have an envelpe here for you but clearly the sticky I left on it has vanished with you address.10:48
mungojerryfor spares or repair10:48
dwatkinsmungojerry: I'm sure you'll have plenty of people interested, yeah - our local freecycle sometimes has old hardware, it's gone in a flash10:49
mungojerryusing freecycle is about as pleasurable as using our company accounting software10:49
mungojerryif anyone here has a g4 they need spares for ..10:49
screen-xmungojerry: I only use it for getting rid of stuff now..10:49
screen-xmungojerry: I have a powerbook g4 that needs a new screen, but I think they were different size from the ibooks.10:50
HazRPGI'm guessing that's the recycle centres :P10:50
screen-xHazRPG: mailing lists for redistributing junk10:50
mungojerryHazRPG: it's a community driven website to get rid of and find 2nd hand gear10:50
mungojerryalthough they forked because of power struggles and freegle became the better one10:51
knightwiseanyone have any good suggestions for linux podcasts ?10:51
knightwisei do uupc las going linux and the outlaws10:51
mungojerrywhy do free* use yahho groups :(10:52
HazRPGmungojerry, screen-x: nice!10:53
* HazRPG goes to google to find it10:53
dauberspopey: The youtube api lets you add meta stuff automagically, so if we had somewhere we could upload the slides too, we could automagically add a link to the slides too10:53
HazRPGthis one: http://www.uk.freecycle.org/ <=10:53
dauberspopey: And to really push the boat out, you can then tweet the link to the uploaded vid and slides :)10:54
popeythat would also rock!10:54
daubersI'll have a play this evening and see what I can come up with10:55
* mungojerry values free stuff more than paid stuff10:58
jgjoneswas told "want a computer for free?"11:05
dogmatic69is it possible to run ruby and php on the same server?11:06
jgjonessure I'll have it. Hmm and I get a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4...and I was expecting something a wee bit newer11:06
awilkinsdogmatic69, Yes11:06
bigcalmHello peoples :)11:06
dogmatic69now to figure out why its not working11:06
awilkinsjgjones, Isn't a TRS-80 quite the collectors item on ebay now11:07
jgjonesHmm....will have a look...I have no idea if it works.11:07
jgjonesIt must be awesome...it comes with not one but TWO floppy disk drives.11:08
awilkinsjgjones, The model 3 is going for over £10011:08
awilkinsjgjones, Heh, just the PSU unit is going for nearly £50 for the model 411:10
jgjonesawilkins, hmm interesting...at moment I've just put it in my office as a display11:10
awilkinsjgjones, The ADVERT for the model 4 is selling for just under £5   :-)11:10
jgjonesjust saw that :)11:10
davmor2morning all11:11
jgjonesawilkins, seriously...what do they use it for?!11:11
jgjonesAnd I was thinking I might try a case mod for it, removing the CRT and replace with a small LCD for status display etc.11:12
awilkinsI think it's just a collector thing... some people buy a Cray-1 just to be an unusual piece of furniture...11:13
=== gary_ is now known as Guest67844
* awilkins for the first time wishes that Java was a dynamic language11:14
awilkinsGrr. Have to call "getContent()" on a whole host of types that came out of a type generator but don't implement a common interface ; can't change them because the code will get overwritten by the generator... annoying11:15
jgjonesHmm Cray-1 as chairs...I now know how to get around my wife "it's not a computer, it's a cutting-edge arty furniture....whatever gave you the idea that it's a computer??"11:15
tugrikthe answer might be "furniture isn't usually plugged in"?11:20
mungojerrymassage chair :P11:20
tugrikfair point :)11:20
jgjonesHeated seats?11:21
mungojerrycray-1 looks comfy11:22
mungojerryassuming they are cushioned seating around the edge?11:22
jgjonesIt look cushioned, but if I recall, the "seats" are the cooling units and the C shape was picked to be the most efficient design for speed (shorter wires or whatever)11:23
directhexmore supercomputers should also be furniture11:24
screen-xdirecthex: clouds are great, but they are tricky to sit on.11:25
mungojerryunless you have a harp11:25
mungojerryand wings11:25
bigcalmIt doesn't look that expensive to mock up full scale. How many MIPS did the original Cray have? I doubt you'd have to put many machines inside to match it11:26
jgjonesyeah - "seats" are cooling system and C shape for shorter wires etc (it was liquid cooled) https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cray-1#Description11:26
screen-xthing that strikes me about the cray-1 is how small it is11:27
* davmor2 hugs czajkowski for a change, just to say welcome home, then prods her to remind her that it's me :)11:27
jgjonesscreen-x, small? the cray-1 weighed 5.5 ton! :)11:27
screen-xjgjones: but compare to bluegene-l11:29
jgjonesscreen-x, true, but then, Cray-1 look cooler and is a "single tower" ;-)11:30
bigcalmpopey: "Get the W3C standard changed to fit IE6" best line of the day11:31
* dwatkins sat on a Cray 1 many years ago when it was actually new11:31
* czajkowski falls asleep on davmor2 11:32
* daubers ponders whether to have an extravagent lunch or not11:33
mungojerry:( dell's premier site allows me to change abolsutely any option on a pc except for the removal of windows tax11:33
daubersmungojerry: You have to ring them for that11:34
davmor2czajkowski: Do you really think your safe doing that when I have hair clippers in reach :P11:34
* czajkowski pouts 11:35
czajkowskiam tired lemmie lone meanie11:35
popeyI am going out for beer tonight, so expect incoherence.11:35
bigcalmBah, humbug11:36
czajkowskiand this differs from other days popey  :p11:36
* czajkowski is tempted to go beering tonight 11:36
bigcalmpopey: before or after?11:36
popeywakka wakka wakka11:36
popeycomedy gold11:36
MartijnVdSuh oh11:36
MartijnVdScolleagues discovering minecrack11:36
mungojerrysurely minecraft can't be more fun than Donkey kong returns :P11:38
directhexi don't know if it's fun full stop. but it's quite compelling11:43
* czajkowski fronws at the pdf 11:44
czajkowskiatt images to the .odt version, save to pdf images there, hit print no images :(11:44
czajkowskiwhat am I doing wrong ?11:44
DJonesczajkowski: If you're this tired now, going beering tonight isn't likely to help you feel less sleepy tomorrow11:44
czajkowskiDJones: while that is excellent logic, I feel the need for beer now, by 5pm though I may be curled up in a ball asleep11:45
=== gary_ is now known as Guest99176
DJonesczajkowski: Heh, sleep wins over beer11:49
czajkowskidepends how well my to do list shrinks11:49
czajkowskilack of shrinking may result in beer11:49
czajkowskigetting to do list done results in beer ;)11:49
* DJones adds a last entry on czajkowski's to do list "Drink beer or multiple of same"11:50
HazRPGmy A/V cable just arrived!11:51
HazRPGseems it was on the later delivery :)11:51
brobostigonmorning everyone.11:53
awilkinsNot for long11:55
screen-xI have a postscript file, I print it from 10.04, comes out fine. Print exactly the same file to the same printer from an 8.04 machine and only the header appears :(11:57
awilkinsI take it this isn't a PS printer11:57
screen-xawilkins: it is a postscript printer11:58
screen-xlaserjet cp400511:58
awilkinsscreen-x, Shouldn't the printer have the responsibility for parsing postscript then?11:59
screen-xawilkins: probably. I think cups maybe mangling it though. Both machines are using postscript drivers (there is also a pcl option)11:59
screen-xI should ftp the file to the printer and see which version I get..12:00
awilkinsAye, can you just cat the file to the device and see what happens :-)12:01
awilkins(60 reams of paper later, screen-x takes out a hit on me)12:01
screen-xhmm, this being a network printer, I would use nc for that?12:02
* screen-x tries it12:02
awilkinsAt this point we depart the shores of my knowledge ... I've not had a lot of use for printers recently. Most of my deep technical experience is with dot-matrix models from the 80s12:02
awilkinsAnd Zebra label printers12:03
* screen-x dislikes printers and is amazed that they work at all. 12:03
awilkinsI have a Samsung colour laser that I'm happy with and leave it at that12:03
awilkinsAlthough for some reason, I have to download some drivers from sourceforge which appear identical to the packaged ones but have better colour balance12:04
screen-xnc worked :)12:04
awilkinsAs in - I've unpacked the tar files and compared them and only dates in comments seem to be different for my model . Odd12:04
screen-xthat is odd12:04
awilkinsThere is a step in the downloaded ones that wgets some colour profiles, maybe that's the difference12:05
awilkinsIt does seem a bit shonky - the author exhorts you for donations (which is fine) but I think there must be some kind of obfuscation going on because the Ubuntu packages should work just the same.12:06
screen-xawilkins: package the colour profile :)12:06
awilkinsIt had occurreed to me ; I didn't have the time to identify the differences though12:06
popeyhahah yeah12:07
awilkinsAnd the whole PPA thing is still a bit hard work for me12:07
awilkinsMaybe that "Ground Control" app would help12:07
awilkinsJust saw it in an Ubuntu book... our sysadmin manager decided we needed some documentation since we're installing Ubuntu on servers now...12:08
awilkins(only one so far)12:08
* mungojerry is pondering over a Intel E7500 (3M Cache, 2.93 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB) or a E8400 (6M Cache, 3.00 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) for £55 extra12:15
Tommeh£55 extra on what?12:15
TommehOr over which CPU, I mean.12:15
mungojerrypaying extra £55 for the better CPU12:16
dogmatic69+3M cache is nice, and faster fsb12:16
TommehOh I see what you've written now.12:16
mungojerryneeds to last 4 years12:16
TommehI wouldn't buy either12:16
dogmatic69mungojerry: why not i3 / i512:16
TommehThey're both well out of date.12:16
dogmatic69at least an i3 you are on the newest socket12:16
TommehBoth S775 CPUs, you'd want at least S1156 or (even better) S115512:17
mungojerryits for work PCs..i want PC+screen under £500 inc vat12:17
TommehI dunno if Dell have gotten around to the S1155 (Sandybridge) stuff yet.12:17
BigRedSGah. Gnome Power Manager makes no sense to me12:17
dogmatic69mungojerry: i got a i3 + 4gig ram and 2x 23" for 700ish, just one screen would take it to about 50012:18
mungojerryi* isn't on the list12:18
dogmatic69that + 23" for 150 is your £50012:19
mungojerrywould be nice for my house :)12:19
Tommehmungojerry: I've noticed they don't have much in the i* stuff12:20
TommehBut if you go to the Vostro desktops, they do have i5's12:20
TommehInstead of Optiplex12:20
mungojerryTommeh: yeah, generally i get Optiplex 380s12:20
dogmatic69that i3 is faster than my Q820012:20
TommehAye, they seem to be stuck in 200912:20
mungojerrythey offer the Q8400 too12:20
* Tommeh has a 360 under my desk12:20
directhexocuk :/12:20
TommehI guarantee they'll be replaced soon :)12:20
mungojerryTommeh: they never go wrong and run linux well12:20
awilkinsI think the problem with these colour profiles is they get downloaded and extracted from the printer firmwares12:21
TommehWell yeah, but.. You're a fool to buy dying tech brand new :p12:21
mungojerryi still have a inspiron 530 under my desk and it still feels new12:21
dogmatic69Q8* are about 2 / 3 years old12:21
directhexmy i7 920 still feels fresh12:21
directhexbut that's because it's teh awesomes12:21
* awilkins has a core2 quad12:21
dogmatic69i9 + 16gig or ram would be nice :)12:22
mungojerrysome would argue that brand new tech is too £££12:22
dogmatic69with ssd obviously12:22
awilkinsNicely refreshed by shoving a new 560i graphics card in it12:22
Baikonuri've got some amd x2 and it feels like amiga12:22
mungojerrywe have HPC clusters for proper work12:22
directhexmungojerry, you need a multi-core desktop, and buckets of ram, to run mpich to test apps. duh.12:22
Tommehmungojerry: aren't the vostros a stage cheaper than the opitplex's anyway?12:23
awilkinsDevelopers need more-awesome-than-average hardware now12:24
directhexi need all these mhz for work.12:24
directhexit's true.12:24
awilkinsI had to shove secretly put 4GB extra RAM in my work desktop because ICT won't provide it because they don't provide a 64-bit OS12:24
mungojerrymost of the staff are writing latex docs , viewing pdfs and browsing the web12:25
mungojerryrunning the odd python/C prog..12:25
mungojerryTommeh: vostros are coming in at £830 !12:26
mungojerryoptiplex £40912:26
mungojerrymust be my academic discount working better on the opti12:26
mungojerrysome staff are still using 5 yr old PCs just fine..running linux12:28
mungojerrythe windows users (thankfully very few of those) want new PC every 2 yrs12:28
TommehAh well, I can't argue with what you're paying for it.12:28
awilkinsI think this is because the crapware gets hungrier all the time12:28
TommehDo you ever take those premier login prices and send them to your account manager?12:28
TommehQuite often we find they can push further.12:28
mungojerrymcafee shags your PC and doesn;'t even catch virii12:28
mungojerryTommeh: i will be doing that for the removal of win tax12:29
awilkinsHeh, we "traded up" from Symantec (4% CPU use) to McAffee (40% CPU use)12:29
TommehYeah, good idea.12:29
mungojerryawilkins: and none of them catch stuff except malwarebytes!12:29
awilkinsI have some publishing processes that take 1:30 on Linux and 8:30 on Windows (same hardware) now12:29
awilkinsAdd to that the process which audits your PC every day at around 10:0012:30
mungojerrythats prodcutivity for you12:30
screen-xawilkins: so you have to take your extra 4GB ram out at 09:45?12:31
awilkinsThrashes every path in the filesystem, goes through all the archives, then spends 30 minutes of 100% CPU time zipping the list of paths up for ICT to ignore....12:31
mungojerryawilkins: what type of company u work for?12:31
awilkinsscreen-x, I don't think they've noticed, TBH. I only boot it to Windows at 0900 on Mondays for the DHCP lease. Then it gets shut down and runs Linux the rest of the week.12:31
daubersawilkins: But the primary job of any pc is to run a virus scanner so it doens't get virus's!!12:31
screen-xawilkins: you can't get a dhcp lease from linux?12:32
* awilkins works for the larges employer in UK and third largest in world and that should be enough for anyone to infer.12:32
awilkinsscreen-x, It's authenticated somehow12:32
screen-xsounds like NHS..12:32
MartijnVdSawilkins: US Military?12:32
Tommeh* awilkins works for the larges employer in U12:32
TommehSo probably not the US Military12:33
DJonesTommeh: Spies :)12:33
MartijnVdSTommeh: well, you don't know how many undercover operatives they have, do you? ;)12:33
screen-x74% of uk citizens are employed by the us military12:33
mungojerryany company that inserts a C into IT can be relied upon to porivde poor IT service12:33
MartijnVdSscreen-x: [FACT]12:33
daubersscreen-x: Yup, spying on th other 26% :)12:33
TommehInterestingly enough though the MOD is the 2nd-largest employer in the UK12:34
TommehLargest being the NHS (your poor sod, awilkins)12:34
* daubers always takes those statistics iwht a pinch of salt12:34
daubersNo indication if it's directly employed or indirectly employed12:34
TommehBoth would be pretty bad.12:34
mungojerrythe 20% VAT rate really bites into my budget :(12:36
BigRedSIt's not really surprising...12:36
Tommehmungojerry: why does your budget even include the VAT rate?12:37
TommehSurely that money is claimed back at the end of the year so .. Isn't a problem?12:37
mungojerrytry explaining that to finance director12:39
DJonesmungojerry: Time to get a new finance director12:39
mungojerryi'm not complaining while i still have control over spending12:39
mungojerryor still have a job :P12:44
directhexmungojerry, buy clusters, blame medical research so they're vat-exempt12:44
directhexyou clearly need a cluster of laptops & desktops12:44
mungojerryi need a cluster of printers that never fails or jams12:45
bigcalmNo such device exists12:45
daubersmungojerry: A cluster of cheap labourers in some far off country with biro's?12:46
mungojerrymy budget has a loophole that i have to purchase individual toners , but if everyone prints to one of 3 massive printers, that comes from a different budget12:46
mungojerryif everyone prints to the big printers, i spend more on IT12:47
mungojerrybut they always jam and clog12:47
directhexwe bought a new big-ish printer for the office12:47
directhexbig for us12:47
screen-xwe have xerox phaser, and when you lift the lid, loads of very thing looking metal bits do a little dance. I'm convinced I'm going to snap/bend something everytime I have to open it.12:49
awilkinsI have issues with people printing stuff out to review it12:49
awilkinsI purposely avoided getting a printer card so I can't print things12:50
daubersawilkins: Issue everyone with a tablet and bin the printers12:50
awilkinsdaubers, There was that thought... but I bet the budget for printer consumables comes out of a different pocket to the budget for ereaders12:50
mungojerryi spend the same on desktop PCs per year that i do on toner12:51
awilkinsAnd they'd still want to apply markup with pens12:51
daubersawilkins: Thats easy to resolve, get a big stick and beat the finance controller with it until they see sense12:51
directhexbig heavy kyocera for the office12:51
awilkinsdaubers, If I had to fight my way to the finance controller you could set up a camera and remake Kill Bill12:51
* daubers is waiting for the webos tablet before deciding whether or not tablets have a future12:52
daubersIn my office anyway12:52
mungojerrygrr any thunderbird users know how to forward an html email as html, when plain text is your usual default? don't wanna have to go through all the menus to turn on html and then go and turn it off12:52
awilkins(I think it's hold a modifier key and push the button... shift may be it)12:53
mungojerryawilkins: woo, it does something!12:53
mungojerryi think you've got it !12:53
mungojerrysaved me a cumulative 10 mins per week12:54
awilkinsI too find that damned annoying12:54
awilkinsAlas, I have to use Outlook now12:54
mungojerrytb3 is nice12:54
awilkinsI like tb3 less because it doesn't handle gmail right12:55
awilkinsIt doesn't have a label feature - just folders. So it downloads your mail repeatedly and wastes disk space, and returns multiple hits to most searches when you want one12:55
BigRedSawilkins: that's exactly what I dislike Gmail for. It doesn't have a folder feature, just labels :)12:56
awilkinsCombined with being forced to use Outlook to access NHS email, that's ushered TB off my computers in favour of the gmail web interface12:56
BigRedSI am generally annoyed by the fact that nobody actually implements IMAP12:56
mungojerryawilkins: which version of exchange does NHS use?12:57
awilkinsAlthough I think I may have a route into the NHS email thing... I may have a crack at it for my virtuous U^3 task12:57
* mungojerry uses zimbra12:57
awilkinsmungojerry, Not sure which version of Exchange we use .. we were on "Samsung Contact" which had an accessible IMAP server12:58
mungojerryimap is possible on exchange too12:58
awilkinsBut they dare not expose the Exchange IMAP to the internet, because it increases the attack surface12:58
awilkinsThey only expose Exchange to the internet through an XML-RPC gateway now12:59
mungojerryi wish tb worked with activesync12:59
awilkinsMS bought it from some israeli security outfit12:59
mungojerrymy zimbra server handles activesync brilliantly, but tb requires imap+ ical etc12:59
awilkinsI think the problem with Activesync is that you need some kind of patented / not free licensed thing for the client12:59
mungojerryoh :(13:00
mungojerryi wonder who pays for it on my android13:00
awilkinsYes, you can't get the client from the Android sources, we've looked13:00
awilkinsI think I've got a way of using the Evolution OWA plugin13:01
mungojerryi would buy a tb activesync plugin13:01
awilkinsJust need to write something to penetrate the gateway wrapper13:01
mungojerryawilkins: isn't there also a proxy that handles exchange like you need it so13:01
awilkinsWhich I reckon I have the references for, just not the time to research and implement13:01
mungojerryan OSS proxy sitting between exchange13:01
awilkinsThere may be  ; the IMAP port is up but you can only see it from the internal network (so you can use TB inside)13:02
awilkinsBut the NHS network is mostly segregated from the internet ; we have a somewhat limited gateway and people are very strict about what passes through it13:03
awilkinsSince I have Outlook I'm not overly annoyed (although Outlook is bobbins and so is Exchange - we have a 200MB limit on our mailboxes, the search is like treacle, etc)13:04
awilkinsI sincerely wish they'd just bought some email appliances from Google13:04
awilkinsIf they can provide an 8GB mailbox with near instant search for nothing more than the opportunity to rifle through my mundane and boring communiques, I'm sure you get great value for $50 a year13:05
danfishawilkins: an alternative but clunky way would be to have offlineimap running inside NHSnet, the from there to gmail13:05
mungojerrythere's another product but i can't think of the name13:06
mungojerryit talks exchange on one side, but handles imap etc when the client wants stuff13:06
filo1234Hi guys, where gdm gets information diplayed on login screen, like exit button, or Desktop Session chooser, or position about logo or login field?13:07
danfishmungojerry: I know the one you mean but can't remember the name. Doesn't work with NHS mail.13:07
ubuntuuk-planet[Jonathan Riddell] conf.kde.in Slides - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/439713:07
awilkinsNHS mail is only OWA / XMLRPC via a gateway from the outside13:07
awilkinsEvolution has the OWA/XMLRPC component but not the gateway part13:07
mungojerryyeah, evolution sucks just as badly as outlook...although allow you to run a client on linux though13:08
awilkinsI think I've found the relevant gubbins for the gateway part but I don't have the time or expertise to write it into a plugin for Evolution or Tbird13:08
awilkinsIs there OWA support for Tbird?13:08
awilkinsThat might be a bit easier to write a gateway bit for because it's Javascript / XUL hmm? My C++ is not hot.13:09
mungojerryawilkins: not last time i looked, however i have no need yet...until the fascists change everything13:09
awilkinsSeems there may be such a thing13:10
mungojerryhmm need food13:10
=== repete_ is now known as repete
dogmatic69i need to downgrade ruby gems and it seems like this can/should be done in apt-get.. anyone know how?13:38
awilkinsdogmatic69, Synaptic has a "force older version" option so I suppose apt-get must have too13:38
awilkinsIs it that you add =<version number> to your package string?13:39
awilkinsYup, it is13:40
dogmatic69where do i get the right string to stick on the end then?13:40
dogmatic69need gem 1.4.x13:40
dogmatic69got 1.6.x13:40
nperry_!info sun-java6-jdk13:41
lubotu3Package sun-java6-jdk does not exist in maverick13:41
awilkinsdogmatic69, If you do apt-cache showpkg it will spew a large list of stuff, the top of which shows you which versions are available13:43
nperry_Where has sun-java6-jdk gone13:43
nperry_It was in canonicals partner repo.13:43
AlanBellto oracle?13:43
screen-xnperry_: partner13:44
mungojerryhmm does anyone else check their 20p pieces compulsively to see if they have the valuable ones without a date on?13:44
AlanBellI had noticed a lack of it in Natty13:44
* screen-x reads13:44
nperry_screen-x: Nope gone..13:45
nperry_OpenJDK doesn't cut it.13:45
AlanBellnperry_: seems to be there http://archive.canonical.com/dists/maverick/partner/binary-i386/Packages13:46
awilkinsCould you tell me what problem you are experiencing with OpenJDK? Just out of interest as a Java developer - I've been using it by default and not so far had problems from what I've been doing.13:46
dogmatic69awilkins: that does not give a large list.. only about 10 lines witch more than half are dependencies13:46
AlanBellnperry_: not in amd64 though, just a jre there13:47
AlanBellNatty has nothing in the partner repo at all at the moment13:48
MyrttiI've got a linguistic problem again13:48
nperry_awilkins: I'm compiling Android Open Source Project13:49
nperry_And it errors out13:49
nperry_While building.13:49
DJonesMyrtti: In what way?13:49
MyrttiSMS is an acronym and is spelled. To my ear SMS sounds like it starts with a vowel. Is it AN SMS or A SMS?13:49
awilkinsMyrtti, I would say "an"13:49
mungojerryan SMS, or a if you spell it out13:50
popeymost people call it Text, not SMS these days :(13:50
mungojerrya Simple Messaging Service text or whatever in13:50
popeyi was in a pub years ago when mobile phones first started doing text, i had a nokia phone and it beeped13:50
DJonesI'd say "an" or pronounce "a" to sound like hay13:50
popey... --- ...13:50
DJoneswithout the "h"13:51
popeymaybe not, what's M in morse13:51
popeyso ... -- ...13:51
popeyold guy next to me turned round and said "What's SMS?"13:51
awilkinsSexual Mating Service13:51
popey"Someone just beeped out SMS in morse"13:51
screen-xbrilliant :)13:51
popeyhe was a radio operator in the 2nd world war :)13:51
nucc1awilkins, was that english?13:52
awilkinsMy wife's phone still beeps SMS in Morse (Nokia 3310)13:52
nucc1SMS has become a word on its own.13:52
dogmatic69does anyone know what the older version of rubygems is called or where i can find this type of info so that i can downgrade it13:52
mungojerryOne of the most often asked questions about grammar has to do with the choice of articles — a, an, the — to precede an abbreviation or acronym. Do we say an FBI agent or a  FBI agent? Although "F" is obviously a consonant and we would precede  any word that begins with "F" with "a," we precede FBI with "an" because  the first sound we make when we say FBI is not an "f-sound," it is an  "eff-sound."  Thus we say we're going to a PTO meetin13:52
Myrttithe old jingle for Finnish main news had morse code beeps that spelled out YLE (National Broadcasting Company)13:53
awilkinsdogmatic69, http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/interpreters/rubygems13:53
awilkinsFlick between releases13:53
popeyhappy days, when SMS first started13:53
popeymy wife (then girlfriend) was on one network and I was on another, we had to hunt around for foreign message centres to bounce our SMS's off to go cross-network13:54
bigcalmUnhappy days when early phones only did upper case text13:54
mungojerryhated sending SMS until i got swype on my phone13:54
DJonesswype o/13:54
bigcalmOr they did lowercase, but it was painful to use it13:54
screen-xpopey: I didn't realise there wasn't cross networking sms routing from the beginning.13:54
mungojerryalthough swyp esucks on my htc desire :(13:55
MyrttiI'm still bitter that Swype isn't available on the market13:55
Myrttiand especially bitter that Finnish Swype isn't available other than OEM at all13:55
mungojerryMyrtti: it's available though13:55
DJonesmungojerry: desire or desire hd?13:55
screen-xAnnoys me that I have to pick up my phone to send/recieve sms, when I am at my desk.13:55
mungojerrydesire DJones13:55
bigcalmscreen-x: have a nokia and pc sweet then ;)13:55
awilkinsWe have a email to SMS gateway13:55
DJonesmungojerry: Ah, I've got it on my HD & its excellent13:55
screen-xpc sweet :)13:55
mungojerrywhen i boot the phone, often swype isn't enabled, and i have to turn it off and on again in the iunput settings13:55
awilkinsYou just send a mail to <number>@<gateway> and off it goes13:56
* bigcalm grins and sighs13:56
screen-xmungojerry: htc desire has a not-quite multitouch screen :(13:56
screen-xawilkins: presumably you have to have an account at gateway?13:56
awilkinsscreen-x, 'tis an NHS thing ; I suspect it only works through our SMTP server13:57
DJonesMyrtti: Might be worth registering with the swype website & next time they open up for testing you might get an invite, I registered ages ago and got onto the testing program, so free swype for me :)13:57
mungojerryDJones: it's still free i think13:57
DJonesMyrtti: http://beta.swype.com/13:57
bigcalmI tried swype early last year and found that it wasn't for me13:57
awilkinsscreen-x, I've had phone clients that would send SMS through a phone on a USB tether13:58
dogmatic69awilkins: i just see 1.8 and 1.9... where do you see a place to flick through the versions?13:58
awilkinsThere was a nice keyboardy thing for PalmOS13:58
mungojerryswype helps me type 10x faster13:58
mungojerryother keyboards are available too13:58
mungojerryi resisted the urge to go to subway today only because some pavement works meant that my journey would be extended by 2 minutes13:59
DJonesmungojerry: Just looked for swype in the android market & can't see it13:59
mungojerryDJones: sorry , by freely available, i mean that the beta program is still open14:00
DJonesmungojerry: It is, although I think they only send invites out every now & again14:00
MyrttiDJones: I am registered and I do have Swype14:00
MyrttiDJones: the beta version, which doesn't have Finnish14:00
DJonesMyrtti: Ah, I thought you meant you didn't have it at all, I understand know14:01
jgjonesvery accurate ;-) https://twitpic.com/484tbx14:03
mungojerryDJones: this page seems to suggest you would have problems on your desire hd too. are you running sense or a different OS ? http://forum.swype.com/showthread.php?2279-Swype-is-Configured-for-Another-Device-Flashing-Blue-Box14:04
screen-xjgjones: thats not very nice14:04
* screen-x notices who posted it..14:05
selinuxiumHmmm... Anyone had any experience with sshfs?14:05
selinuxiumhi everyone!  o/14:05
screen-xhi selinuxium14:05
screen-xI have used it..14:05
selinuxium'lo screen-x14:06
ubuntuuk-planet[Ralph Janke] Inaugural Open Data Waterloo Region CodeFest! on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/inaugural-open-data-waterloo-region-codefest-saturday-march-12-201114:07
jgjonesscreen-x, :-P now that you noticed who posted it :)14:07
mungojerryi just remembered what i wanted to ask u guys about.14:08
mungojerryanyone used splashtop OS? http://www.splashtop.com/os14:08
mungojerryit seems they recently opened it up for nonOEM14:09
mungojerrypopey: yes, to splashtop? used it recently?14:09
* mungojerry likes the idea of 5 second boot, but not sure if it is possible on his eee14:10
mungojerrytell me more :P14:10
mungojerryseems to be a windows only installer :(14:10
popeyit came pre-delivered on my acer revo14:11
popeyi used it about twice14:11
popeyabout a year ago14:11
gordheh yeah i remember that thing14:12
mungojerryyou're not really selling it to me :P14:12
popeyit has lots of floss apps with their names redacted14:12
popeyso firefox is "Web broser"14:12
popeypidgin is "Chat"14:12
popeywithout the typos14:12
popeyit's not compelling. i can see it would be if your "main" os is slow14:12
popeybut if it _is_ the main os then you'll likely feel hampered14:13
DJonesmungojerry: I've seen teh problem when there are OTA updates, but other than that, I've haven't had any problems with swype, even then, all it took was a change input method & then back to swype to fix14:13
popeyI would personally recommend crunchbang for eee pc14:13
popeyi installed crunchbang statler on my eee 900 - works a treat14:13
mungojerrypopey: used crunchbang in the past, but took as long to boot as ubuntu14:14
mungojerryDJones: do you ever reboot?14:14
DJonesmungojerry: Maybe once a week if something has pinched all the memory & taskiller doesn't get it back14:15
mungojerryoh. i switch my phone off at night14:15
screen-xmungojerry: we are building up a picture of your evening routine ;-)14:15
DJonesI just switch onto silent & charge iton the bedside cabinet14:15
mungojerryscreen-x: you're right, phone off, head under duvet.14:16
mungojerry10 hrs kip14:16
screen-x10 hours \o/14:16
mungojerryit's what we aim for14:16
mungojerrystill feel knackered all day though14:17
DJonesCan't remember when I last had 10 hours sleep, the best I can manage is about 8 if I'm exhausted14:17
bigcalm4 - 7 is optimal14:17
mungojerrydepends on the person14:17
bigcalmHence the range :)14:18
mungojerrymrs MJ has chronic fatigue and i think it leaks onto me somehow14:18
popeymungojerry: it boots quickly here14:18
mungojerryi used to survive on 5 hrs14:18
popey6 hours kip here14:18
DJonesI normally have about 6 hrs14:18
mungojerryjust think what i could be doing with 4 hrs a night extra14:19
screen-xI get between 6 and 8, would like 10 though :)14:19
mungojerrytbh baby wakes me up an hour b4 that, but doesn't cry14:19
mungojerryi just hear him burbling and chatting14:19
mungojerryso its prob 9 hrs for me14:20
mungojerryi feel v sick and rubbish if i get <814:20
popeyhow old is baby?14:20
screen-xmungojerry: you have a baby that sleeps for 9 hours?14:21
popeyours used to sleep for 1214:21
popeystill do mostly14:21
mungojerryplus he has a nap during the day for 1-2 hr14:21
* czajkowski clearly missed the lesson on how to sleep 14:21
czajkowski3 hrs a night is al I get14:21
screen-xczajkowski: yah, but then you come in here all drowsy14:21
mungojerrythere's a pixies song about a man who's spent so much of his life sleeping he can stay awake the reset of his years14:22
czajkowskiscreen-x: aye today mostly I function though pretty ok14:22
screen-xczajkowski: yeah, if you usually only get 3 hours sleep, you do amazingly!14:23
mungojerrymaggie thatcher famously survived on 4hrs a night14:23
mungojerry3 vs 9 hmm..i could be getting so much more done14:24
mungojerrymaybe i'd end up just playing minecraft and drinking14:24
screen-xmungojerry: yeah, keep the sleep :)14:24
DJonesmungojerry: An extra 6 hours of awekness, just think how much longer you could spend watching the shopping channels on sky/virgin14:25
davmor2czajkowski: the lesson was called English honest :)14:25
mungojerrywhen i was a student i used to go out to clubs etc till 4am then get into college for my 9am computing lab14:26
dogmatic69how do i set an environment var14:26
mungojerrymaybe my body is getting payback for those days14:26
screen-xdogmatic69: export foo=bah14:26
mungojerryi can't believe the splashtop OS requires windows to install...that's just super dumb :( no ISO14:27
dogmatic69screen-x: i have that in .bashrc14:27
dogmatic69is that the right place?14:27
screen-xdogmatic69: yeah14:28
nucc1dogmatic69, it feels wierd to see a cakephp wizard asking for help :p14:28
popeyanyone got 5 mins and the gimp fancy editing an image for me?14:28
popey<- at work on windows pc and no art skillz14:28
dogmatic69then i did . ~/.bashrc14:28
popeytechnically it just needs resizing, not editing :)14:28
dogmatic69nucc1: im not a server admin... even less when it comes to ruby :/14:28
DJonespopey: Gimp for windows? although that wouldn't solve the art skillz problem14:29
dogmatic69popey: MS paint...14:29
screen-xpopey: winscp convert winscp ;-)14:29
* popey gives up and asks elsewhere14:29
dogmatic69popey: just resizing i can do14:29
DJonesI've got gimp for windows handy14:29
nucc1dogmatic69, don't mind me, you're awesome.14:30
* AlanBell has gimp14:30
dogmatic69m$ gimp is pretty low on features14:30
dogmatic69nucc1: lol14:30
DJonesdogmatic69: Yeah, but it will resize14:30
AlanBellwill it blend?14:30
awilkinsPaint.NET isn't too bad for Windows14:31
DJonesAlanBell: It has a Blend option under Paint Tools14:33
screen-xhi hellocatfood14:37
hellocatfoodhi screen-x14:37
hellocatfoodI'm just having a bit of trouble with external monitors, is this a good place to get help with it?14:37
screen-xhellocatfood: try, if anyone can help you, they will14:38
bigcalmpopey: I rather like cabbage14:38
* awilkins still has some kimchi outside14:39
selinuxiumI am trying to mount a remote Suse point to a 10.4 server and can't seem to get it to function as expected. it just mounts d?????????   :/14:39
hellocatfoodWell, I've attached a projector to my laptop. It's able to mirror the screen easily, but I want to extend the desktop onto this monitor. Whenever I untick mirror screens it asks me to log out/in again but then just goes back to mirroring screens14:39
BigRedShellocatfood: are you using the proprietary drivers?14:41
BigRedSIt's _really_ not a good idea to use them unless you really need them14:41
hellocatfoodYep, ATI Radeon 450014:41
BigRedS'cause they're really rather poor14:41
hellocatfoodI really need them14:41
hellocatfoodAs I'm doing visual performance with Pure Data14:41
BigRedSAh. I couldn't get multiple monitors working on mine14:42
hellocatfoodAnd without them I get rather crappy framerate14:42
* gord just stops by to award hellocatfood the most insane irc nick he has seen all day ;)14:42
hellocatfoodgord: haha thanks, I get that often :-)14:42
ali1234why don't you mirror the display in the projector?14:53
directhexfglrx is far better than it was14:53
hellocatfoodIt mirrors by default when I plug it in, but I'm doing a performance where the visuals will be displayed full screen on the projector and I'll be controlling it on my laptop14:54
directhexhellocatfood, are you using the catalyst control center to do the multi-monitor setup?14:54
ali1234it might be labelled as "rear projection mode" in the projector menus14:54
hellocatfooddirecthex: No, using System > Monitors14:54
directhexhellocatfood, try CCC. i know with nvidia-glx nvidia have their own dumb way of doing multi-monitor14:55
hellocatfooddirecthex: Thanks, will give it a try when I'm with the projector next14:56
BigRedSI couldn't get ccc to work, but YMWHV14:56
directhexfglrx-amdcccle package14:56
hellocatfooddirecthex: The strange thing is I've got an external monitor at home that works perfectly i.e. I can extend the desktop onto it with no trouble14:57
mungojerryprojectors seem to be the major cause of embarrassment when using linux in a corporate environment14:58
hellocatfoodThanks for the advice directhex I'll give it a try14:58
hellocatfoodmungojerry: yeah14:58
ali1234never had a problem14:58
hellocatfoodmungojerry: Once I plugged one in and it crashed my computer. Upon restart my presentation was corrupted and wouldn't open.14:59
hellocatfoodBut generally speaking I've had relatively few problems14:59
screen-xhellocatfood: nightmare14:59
hellocatfoodscreen-x: luckily for me it was a short presentation that consisted mainly of images that I had backed up. Still annoying though15:00
hellocatfoodIt's mainly the whole mirroring/extending issue that I've encountered that's causing me grief15:00
ali1234don't try to mirror the screen on the computer15:00
ali1234use the built in function of the projector15:00
hellocatfoodali1234: I'm not trying to mirror, I'm trying to extend15:00
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell ye have mail15:01
mungojerryi was running kde3.5 at the time, that most people thought was either vista or mac os15:01
ali1234you're talking about cloning aren't you15:01
hellocatfoodali1234: cloning? please explain15:01
ali1234same display on two outputs15:01
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: actually you don't your mail just got returned to me15:02
screen-xali1234: I wondered why you were talking about rear projection..15:02
ali1234not mirroring as in horizontal or vertical flip15:02
hellocatfoodali1234: no15:02
hellocatfoodOk, let me put it another way. Say you're doing a presentation using Openoffice impress and only your laptop and a projector. On the projector is the full screen slides. On your computer you may have the notes from the presentation15:03
ali1234but you don't want to flip the output for eg rear projection15:03
ali1234so you're not mirroring15:03
ali1234not even in the sense of cloning15:04
hellocatfoodNo, not mirroring15:04
ali1234you're just doing standard dual head15:04
ali1234well, have you tried rebooting the computer with the projector plugged...15:04
hellocatfoodand it just defaults back to mirroring15:04
ali1234yeah it will... at first15:05
ali1234but here is an interesting fact i discovered15:05
ali1234the standard dual head tool of gnome actually remembers your settings for different monitors15:05
ali1234so you have a laptop, and you plug into a external monitor, configure it all...15:05
ali1234then you go and plug into a different external monitor, and it "forgets" your settings15:06
popeyooo, didnt know that15:06
ali1234but if you go back to the first monitor, it will remember the settings for it15:06
ali1234this mechanism also seems quite buggy15:06
mungojerrytalking of buggy..firefox 4 is shating my machine on a regular basis15:07
ali1234it probably is even more buggy on proprietary drivers so i suggest do what directhex said and use the ATI tool, not the gnome one15:08
hellocatfoodali1234: Thanks, will give it a try. Just hope it all works for the performance otherwise I'm screwed15:08
ali1234but i have no experience of ATI since i only use nvidia, and my laptop has intel graphics which "just works"15:08
* bigcalm ponders plugging his laptop into something with hdmi to see if it'll work out of the box15:10
hellocatfoodI'm doign that now ;-)15:10
hellocatfoodIt clones it all well and good15:10
ali1234if all else fails i suggest printing your notes15:11
ali1234actually i suggest doing that anyway15:11
ali1234always good to have a backup plan15:11
hellocatfoodali1234: That was a hypothetical situation. Next thursday I'm doing a video performance (VJ-ing)15:11
hellocatfoodAnd for that I need to be able to extend the desktop15:12
mungojerryor one of those big magnifying glasses15:12
ali1234VJ-ing? is that a real thing?15:12
hellocatfoodali1234: yeah. It goes under many names but it's essentially doing video visuals at concerts15:13
ali1234yeah i have seen it15:13
ali1234i always figured they just loaded some video clips into the software and hit "go"15:13
hellocatfoodDepends what thing you're going to see15:14
hellocatfoodIt can be either15:14
hellocatfoodCan be compared to lisetning to a CD or going to a concert15:15
hellocatfoodthere's just something different about seeing it done live15:15
hellocatfoodbut anyways, that's a topic for a PhD thesis ;-)15:15
hellocatfoodright, time to restart and see if it worked15:15
popeyat uds one of the Ubuntu studio guys had a VJ app he'd written15:16
popeyit was pre-loaded with all his videos, and had a button he could tap to get it in sync with the beat of the music15:16
popeywas quite neat15:17
czajkowskipopey: aye luisbg has that15:17
czajkowskirather funky15:17
popeyit was him15:17
popeyhe wrote it15:17
mungojerryis it my poor memory or did ubuntu used to have less kernel updates requiring a reboot?15:17
czajkowskihe works for Collabora now15:18
ali1234i once saw luke vibert, it was literally just him sitting on stage behind a laptop, pressing two keys to trigger two samples over and over15:18
BigRedSmungojerry: it used to be a lot less insistent15:19
mungojerryBigRedS: maybe certain kernel updates only came if you enabled backports or something?15:20
BigRedSmmm, perhaps. I wonder if it used to just install kernels as any other package15:20
mungojerryi've run ubuntu since 2005 and i never remeber having such low uptimes15:20
BigRedSand only now it feels the need to go "you have a new kernel and WILL boot into it"15:20
screen-xmungojerry: you dont have to reboot just because a new kernel has been installed..15:21
mungojerryscreen-x: i don't HAVE to...but i remember less kernel updates15:21
mungojerryalso, regarding yesterday's convo about close or quit...my banshee is using virt 874m res 477m...and i'm not even playing any music15:22
ali1234ubuntu used to have a less annoying way of notifying you about updates that probably resulted in less reboot requests15:22
ali1234update frequency was about the same though15:22
* bigcalm can't contain himself and mutters 'fewer' before going to make a cuppa tea15:23
mungojerryless frequent :P15:23
mungojerryis that allowed?15:23
bigcalm'frequent' is singular15:23
* popey cuddles bigcalm 15:23
bigcalmLess frequent, fewer frequents ;)15:24
ali1234"less reboot requests" is wrong15:24
ali1234but i don't care15:24
mungojerryi think my swappiness is wrong15:25
shaunoit only goes back to jan09, but ksplice's chart was interesting; http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/misc/ksplice_uptrack_reboots.jpg15:25
mungojerryshauno: i only do security updates on RHEL and i'm sure there's not that many15:26
screen-xLyx seems to be behaving differently when started from terminal, to when started from menu. http://i.imgur.com/DZvgl.png15:27
screen-xWas going to strace, to see what it was failing to read/write, but I couldn't reproduce the problem.15:28
mungojerryscreen-x: what command is the  menu launcher running15:30
screen-xmungojerry: lyx %F15:31
mungojerryhmm dunno15:31
mungojerryi'm amazed at how leaky programs get after a few weeks15:32
mungojerryhotot: 600mb resident , docky, 300mb resident...15:32
tugrikif I've got a partition listed as mounted, but the physical media isn't there any more, if there any way to force it to unmount that's more effective than "umount -f"?15:45
DJonestugrik: Wouldn't happen to be a USB stick would it?15:46
tugrikit was, yes15:46
DJonesI've got a similar thing, desktop icon for a usb stick thats been safely removed, but the icon is still sat on the desktop15:46
mungojerrylsof shows nothing?15:47
tugriki've got two entries in the output of "mount", it seems rather lame to have to reboot to remove them15:47
DJonesI narrowed it down to a corruptly formatted stick, but the only solution I found was a reboot15:47
screen-xtugrik: what happens if you ls the mountpoint?15:47
tugrikyeah, nothing in lsof output15:47
tugrikthere's nothing there15:48
mungojerryis it present in mtab?15:48
screen-xtugrik: then you could edit mtab manually (at your own risk, not recommended, etc)15:48
mungojerryor maybe trace umount to find out what it's doing15:49
tugrikcan I just manually edit /etc/mtab?  or am I asking for trouble? ;)15:49
tugrikwhat screen-x said :)15:49
ZoeRHello all!15:49
dauberstugrik: -l will do a lazy unmount and is sometimes a bit effective than l15:50
daubersf sorry15:50
daubersumount -l /path/to/broken/mount15:51
bigcalmCan you have a CNAME entry in one domain record that points to another domain?15:52
tugrikI may have been a little over-enthusiastic in marking files immutable, the problem has now "gone away"15:53
imexilpopey, not sure if this was already pointed out to you but in the new (great) episode it was mentioned that browser tabs were "invented" by Firefox but iirc Opera was there first ;)15:53
BigRedSbigcalm: yeah15:54
BigRedSit's where they're mostly used IME15:54
danfishbigcalm: pretty sure you can yes - my dyndns point to anbother domain15:54
tugrikand mungojerry, cheers, strace was a help15:54
bigcalmThanks guys. I thought you could. Looks like everydns is just being slow then15:56
popeyimexil: :) it has, numerous times :)15:56
bigcalmJust seen the ice-cream van trundle past in the pouring rain. Good luck to him I say15:57
imexilI thought so :-D Propably from all Norwegian based/loving listeners in an huge outrage :-D15:57
ali1234opera wasn't first15:57
ali1234and neither was firefox15:57
imexilso who was ali1234?15:58
ali1234ibrowse on amiga15:58
ali1234but the fact is that firefox was the first that more than about 10 people actually used15:58
ali1234the only innovative thing firefox has ever done is chuck out all the bloat16:01
ali1234but they seem hell-bent on adding it all back in now16:01
popeynever seen the attraction with opera16:01
ali1234it has mouse gestures!16:02
imexilIt used to be way faster than Mozilla16:02
ali1234how can you not like mouse gestures!16:02
BigRedSimexil: ISTR it first appeared as an add-on for IE16:02
* popey gestures to ali1234 16:02
imexilWell point was really unfortunately it wasn't a product of OpenSource :(16:03
Baikonuri used opera for a while, back when i learned there are other browsers than IE :)16:03
imexilyet again16:03
ali1234what ever has been?16:03
imexilWell that was the discussion all about and it is really hard to find something.16:03
ali1234i mean, except for everything made by computing industry prior to about 198316:03
imexilOne thing that I could name now is BitCoin16:04
imexilHaven't seen something like that in the propriety world of sw16:04
Baikonurthat might count if some one actually starts to use it16:04
ali1234yeah, bitcoin is too crazy16:04
ali1234maybe tabbed browsing wasn't open source... but the www itself was16:05
ali1234and what about... bittorrent?16:05
Baikonuri have bitcoin running, and i have 5 bitpence there, but i don't even know what it's used for16:06
ali1234it's not used for anything16:06
bigcalmHow does one clear DNS cache in linux?16:06
alexcockellNot sure.16:06
screen-xbigcalm: there isnt a dns cache, unless you have installed one16:07
ubuntuuk-planet[Ralph Janke] Drupal Q&A site at stackexchange.com - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/drupal-qa-site-stackexchangecom16:07
* bigcalm pokes the router then16:07
screen-xbigcalm: are you using nscd or dnsmasq?16:07
bigcalmscreen-x: I have no idea what either of those are :)16:08
screen-xbigcalm: probably not using them then ;-)16:08
bigcalmscreen-x: just what I'm thinking too16:08
screen-xbigcalm: you can use a service like http://www.whatsmydns.net/ to check the dns responses recieved by servers in various countries16:10
bigcalmCoo. Thanks for that16:10
mungojerrytugrik: cool. no probs16:13
popeythere's an app for benchmarking dns too16:13
popeyon google code16:13
* daubers makes an app to destroy the word "app"16:14
jpdsdanfish: http://dilbert.com/fast/2011-03-03/16:15
imexilbigcalm: There is also a very sophisticated program from Steve Gibbson (runs on Wine!) http://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm16:17
imexilYou don't like SG then, popey? ;)16:18
popeyhe's a guy making a living16:19
popeyi just find him a little OTT16:19
popey(like most Americans)16:19
bigcalmIt's great when CEO from $company confirms for DNS changes to be made and then 20 mins later a VP of $company phones me to ask why their site has gone away16:20
* bigcalm sighs16:20
bigcalmIt's great that I get to deal with the top dogs of various companies, but it would be great if they could communicate within themselves16:21
bigcalmEverything is just great!16:21
bigcalmTime for a great big mug of tea16:21
popey\o/ tea16:22
gingwhat about a big mug of 3 minute microwave cake16:26
gordi would love a tea cake16:26
ginggord: did you just say that or was that a script that pics up on the word cake?16:26
* bigcalm head-desks16:26
* DJones gets a nice big mug of redbush16:26
gordi would love a tea cake16:27
Azelphurbtw gord / brobostigon back in January I was talking about Anonymous and you made it sound like all they knew how to do was DDoS, I'm curious on what you think of the HBGary attack :P16:27
Azelphurif you've heard of it16:27
bigcalmI've changed /etc/hosts to point at the site's new IP address. But the server is now timing out. This isn't my afternoon16:27
ginggord: now you're just playing with me16:27
gordAzelphur, i have no thoughts about that16:30
gordjust about tea-cakes16:30
AzelphurI see :P16:30
hellocatfoodTo ali1234 and directhex thanks for the help regarding connecting to external monitors, using the catalyst menu work (at least via hdmi on my tv)16:37
gordsigh, what happened to the sun...16:46
mungojerrymarch is the windy month though16:52
mungojerryhey the sun is almost out in london16:52
popeyits out here16:53
popeyshining on my screen!16:53
mungojerrypopey: http://www.dilbert.com/fast16:54
* mungojerry has spent the last hour reading FOI requests at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com16:55
Laneywhat DO they know?16:55
Laneynot a lot?16:55
mungojerryi know a lot more now16:57
* danfish has livers for his tea tonight17:13
danfishand red wine of course17:14
* bigcalm slaps rackspace17:16
bigcalmYou tell it to use one document root for both :80 and :443 but it doesn't listen17:16
bigcalmDo my eyes decieve me?17:17
bigcalmPlesk uses php3?17:17
shaunosomehow I wouldn't find that surprising17:18
bigcalmA client's shell uses darkblue on black for directory names. How might I apply a better colour scheme?17:22
shaunoa pointy stick?17:24
shauno$LS_COLORS hurts my head, I'd just copy it across from a sane env17:26
davmor2bigcalm: that's easy gauge out their eyes and give them a Braille tablet17:26
bigcalmThis is for my benefit17:27
bigcalmClient doesn't ssh to their webhost17:27
davmor2bigcalm: Oh sorry thought it was a consumer request :)  can you not just change it locally using dev tools or fire bug?17:28
bigcalmfirebug? that's a web browser plugin17:29
bigcalmI am very confused now :)17:29
shaunowell, the short answer is just to edit the envar LS_COLORS to match your preference ;)17:33
bigcalmI managed to make do by putting my nose up to the monitor.17:36
bigcalmDon't need to ssh to that server too offten, so I can cope I guess17:36
shaunodircolors --print-database >~/.dircolors   then change the line reading 'DIR 01;34' to something more sensible.  it'll be parsed when you login, so it'll "stick"17:38
shauno(I use "DIR 01" so it's just bold but not coloured.  makes it whiter than a normal file on my term)17:39
shaunoguess quicker fix would be 'unalias ls' so it's not running ls --color=auto.  maybe easier to remember for next time :)17:42
=== arek is now known as agend
bigcalmHow does one set up their linux box to share mp3s in a way that iTunes will see it without fuss?17:56
bigcalm(iTunes on another machine within the network)17:56
popeyvote vote vote UUPC up!18:02
ali1234bigcalm: you need daap sharing i think18:03
bigcalmali1234: just reading about that: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=2003071114015714318:03
ali1234i think rhythmbox or banshee has a plugin, one of those. can't remember which, i only use spotify now18:04
bigcalmIt's a headless server I'll be using18:05
bigcalmVote Up requires 15 reputation18:06
* bigcalm gives up and mentally likes it18:06
shaunovoted .. pretend it's bigcalm by proxy :p18:09
bigcalmMost kind18:09
popeyanswer some questions :)18:10
popeyunanswered ones to get good karma/points/whatever they are18:10
bigcalmYou must have at least 5 reputation on Ask Ubuntu to answer a question18:12
* bigcalm thinks this system does not favour new users18:12
arsenwhy is it popey is a name i see everywhere18:12
arsenaer you THE popey ?!18:13
shaunosimple.  popey's everywhere.18:13
brobostigoni reckon my dad is a politician at heart, he does everything to avoid answering questions, with proper answers.18:16
bigcalmWould you like a tea or coffee?18:17
brobostigoncoffee, please.18:17
bigcalmYes please18:17
bigcalmSee, you wouldn't make for a politician18:17
brobostigonyes, lke that.18:17
brobostigonits damn annoying,18:18
popeyhello arsen18:19
arsenive no idea where i know the name popey from, and the one i know was probably not you18:19
lubotu3popey is the UK alternative to elvis.18:19
arsenoh its AlanBell !18:20
arseni do remember AlanBell being a very helpful person in the past :p18:20
arseni think you helped me fix something.18:20
gordokay so i normally get annoyed with country selections, "is it uk, gb, england?" but this one takes the cake. it *was* uk, but they put united kingdom in the g's where great britain would be...18:24
shaunoit irks me when they expect 'gb'.18:40
shaunowas once told our cctld was meant to be .gb, but we beat ukraine to it and ruined it before it was properly standardized.  this makes no sense to me.  GB is an island, not a country.18:41
=== cbx333 is now known as cbx33
safiyyahhi all need help with printer19:48
safiyyahI have a brother MFC-J265, my HP broke down :( Anyway, I have installed the printer but getting nothing as far as the scanner. It is an all in one with fax... but I won't be using the fax19:49
safiyyahhelp anyone?19:49
gr33npeacesafiyyah: do you hplib installed?19:59
gr33npeacesafiyyah: what i normally do is to plug in the scanner, and then run hp-scan from the command line19:59
gr33npeacesafiyyah: it's far from ideal... but it does the trick for the (very) small amount of scanning I do20:00
safiyyahgr33npeace,  i just came with a brother printer today20:00
safiyyahmy hp died20:00
safiyyahso hplip isnt doing me any good20:00
safiyyahi have never had a brother20:01
gr33npeacesorry... didn't read properly!20:01
safiyyahso its cool and all.... but hp... the scanner just works... this one doesn't ... am on google now finding info20:01
gr33npeaceare you using Xsane?20:02
gr33npeaceseems to be some information on here: http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/faq_scn.html20:03
safiyyahthanx gr33npeace :) am on it now20:04
gr33npeaceany time... good luck!20:05
mungojerry1popey: i'm next to you in the user league for askubuntu last quarter :)20:06
mungojerry1everyone's out tonight and mungojerry is in doing his backups20:09
popeydidnt know there were league tables!20:15
safiyyahbrb reboot20:15
shauno*gasp* the tables have a big red number next to popey?!  slacker!20:17
DJonesshauno: File a bug20:18
DJonespopey: I do wonderhow you find time to do any "paid" work with all the time you put into answering questions on the forums/askubuntu/irc/mailing list & others, are you sure you've not been cloned20:20
mungojerry1and does your employer not notice?20:20
popeyI am self employed :)20:23
mungojerry1there seems to be a lot of confusion over where is best to ask questions and report bugs..quite a lot of askubuntu questions seem to be bug reports, and launchpad questions/wiki/irc/mailings also allow questions to be answered20:24
mungojerry1and ubuntu forums of course20:24
popey77 overall! :D20:26
mungojerry1jorge castro must spend all day on that site20:28
bigcalmAnybody here know how to configure Tangerine?20:29
daubersbigcalm: Peel it and eat it?20:30
MartijnVdSHas anyone tried "f.lux"?20:34
bigcalmMartijnVdS: yes, it made me ill20:34
MartijnVdSbigcalm: it did? how?20:34
bigcalmSimilar to motion sickness I guess20:35
bigcalmThe defaults made me feel sick, I didn't bother to try any other settings20:35
bigcalmIt might work for you20:37
gr33npeaceany resident python coders in?  I've been banging my head against the httplib for a while, and after making the connection, the call to "socket.getaddrinfo" is taking forever...20:38
gr33npeaceare there alternatives?  Don't really want to use urllib(2), as I have a series of requests to handle.20:39
gr33npeacehttplib seemed like the thing to use...20:39
=== gary_ is now known as gforce
daubersd/win 1021:02
MartijnVdSdaubers: fail :)21:03
daubersMartijnVdS: yup21:04
* MartijnVdS waits for a ustream channel to start21:04
popey\o/ pub-o-clock21:25
Nafallopopey: wow. late such...21:26
bigcalmA DNS record with a TTL of 86400 would mean that any change would not propogate for 1 day?21:26
MartijnVdSbigcalm: it means that it can be cached for 24 hours21:26
MartijnVdSbigcalm: so if someone requested the hostname 1 second before you edited it, its caching nameserver will cache for 24 hours21:27
bigcalmMakes sense21:27
MartijnVdSif they did it 23 hours before, they have to wait 1 hour21:27
bigcalmUsing dig nameserver domain any, I can see that the domain I'm interested in is showing an old IP address21:28
bigcalmDoes that mean that it's cached or that it hasn't actually been changed?21:28
MartijnVdSbigcalm: can you pastebin the dig output?21:28
Nafallobigcalm: tell dig to use the authorative name servers for the domain in question?21:29
MartijnVdSdig +trace is also cool21:29
bigcalmNafallo: I'm asking the name server specified in the whois result21:29
Nafalloif that has the old IP, it's sounds likely that the change didn't happen then.21:30
MartijnVdSbigcalm: it says you're asking
MartijnVdSbigcalm: try "@ns.rackspace.com" :)21:30
bigcalmSame result on the A record21:31
bigcalmThis isn't good21:31
MartijnVdSbigcalm: look at the last lines.. it'll say which server it used21:31
MartijnVdSbigcalm: if that's, you're not asking ns.rackspace.com :)21:31
MartijnVdSah yes21:32
MartijnVdSand that IP ( is wrong?21:33
bigcalmThat's the old IP address21:33
MartijnVdSthen you should have rackspace update the nameserver21:33
bigcalmThe client wanted it to use an SSL cert. So we had them order a new IP as well21:33
bigcalmThere are other sites hosted on that IP as well21:34
MartijnVdSYou only need an extra IP if you want to use >1 SSL host21:34
bigcalmIndeed :)21:34
bigcalmThere are several with and without SSL21:34
MartijnVdSAlso, proper browsers support TLS/SNI now :)21:34
bigcalmAaaaaaaaaaany way21:34
MartijnVdSSNI \o/21:35
bigcalmI need to inform the client that they didn't update the DNS settings21:35
bigcalmWhich is confusing21:35
* brobostigon returns21:38
MartijnVdS\o brobostigon21:39
brobostigonevening MartijnVdS :)21:39
AlanBellMartijnVdS: oooh, what browsers do/don't do that then?21:39
* brobostigon gets everyone real ale.21:40
NafalloI bet wikipedia will have a list. they tend to like lists at that place.21:40
Nafallo^-- AlanBell21:40
MartijnVdSAlanBell: IE7>, FF2>, Opera8>, Chrome5>21:40
MartijnVdSthat, yes21:41
AlanBellso everything anyone uses except IE621:41
MartijnVdSAlanBell: WinPhone<7 also isn't supported21:41
MartijnVdSsome people still use Windows phones21:41
AlanBelldouble bonus21:41
MartijnVdSit has a test link21:42
Nafallohow about Symbian?21:45
MartijnVdSgingerbread, not so much21:46
bigcalmHave the honeycomb theme running on gingerbread, it's very swish ;)21:48
bigcalmSo, is gingerbread the last development of 2?21:49
bigcalm2h 5m on battery \o/21:51
MartijnVdSbigcalm: that's what I heard21:52
* MartijnVdS wants the xoom21:52
bigcalmBit big to fit in ones pocket21:52
MartijnVdSbigcalm: great for on the table/sofa21:53
bigcalmI'm sure :)21:53
bigcalmNetbook / phone do the same to an extent21:54
bigcalmThough I use my netbook a lot less since getting the N121:54
MartijnVdSMy laptop (13") is nice, but it's too bulky21:54
MartijnVdSalso, it's very distracting21:54
MartijnVdScompared to something that can only do a bit of browsing/imdbing ;)21:54
bigcalmI'm sure everything has its use and some people will enjoy some devices more than others21:56
bigcalm</skint> :(21:56
Nafallonetbook ♥21:57
AlanBellhttp://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Saturday 16th is looking strong still22:06
HazRPGI need to be less of a tab horde!22:15
HazRPGI swear that says I've got 132 tabs... >_<22:15
brobostigonevening HazRPG :)22:16
HazRPGbrobostigon: evening :)22:16
HazRPGI've got chicken hotdogs!22:17
HazRPGindeed :)22:24
* HazRPG does not like pork22:24
HazRPGI find it smells funny too22:25
ZoeR all23:07
ZoeRHi all23:07
* ZoeR has no idea where the first 'Hi' went23:08
brobostigonevening ZoeR23:08
Nafallohi ZoeR23:08
ZoeRHow are you all tonight?23:08
brobostigonZoeR: very tired, but i want to stay yp to watch, this week. and you?23:09
ZoeRNot bad, thanks. Just been watching 'House' and now have to work.23:09
brobostigonnot seen that in ages,23:09
* Nafallo yawns23:10
* brobostigon gets Nafallo a cuppa.23:10
Nafallorelentless would be better, but thanks :-)23:10
ZoeRRelentless is awesome23:10
ZoeRI wish they sold the sugar free version in more places 'round here though23:11
brobostigoni cant stand those energydrinks, they taste foul.23:11
zleapthey sell that at the lighthouse in paignton, explains why the young people there are so hyper sometimes23:11
Nafallothere is a sugar free version?23:11
Nafallothat sounds boring... one less rush to hit ya :-/23:11
ZoeRYes. 'Libertus'. It's in a blue can23:11
ZoeRAnd yes, it's one rush less but I'll take what I can get.23:12
* Nafallo used to live of relentless, but mostly converted to water since new year23:12
* ZoeR used to live off Relentless and Wine Gums but now isn't allowed either because they gave her a sugar addiction23:13
Nafallobrobostigon: ta :-)23:13
ZoeRHence why I want more places to stock the blue one23:13
brobostigonNafallo: :)23:13
* Nafallo inserts an off before the of23:14
brobostigonZoeR: you got it right, Nafallo didnt.23:14
ZoeRWell I suppose I had to be right some time.23:15
Nafallobrobostigon: I got it proper right after your correction though :-P23:15
brobostigonNafallo: yes, :)23:15
* brobostigon plays pedant.23:16
* Nafallo waits for U1 to finish uploading stuff23:16
ZoeRI really should do some work23:19
NafalloI should pack23:19
* ZoeR decides to have a cup of tea instead23:19
Nafalloactually. I should pack tomorrow.23:19
Nafallobut I should hang laundry before bed.23:19
* brobostigon gets ZoeR a twist of rum for her tea, as brobostigon has in his.23:20
* ZoeR heads for the antihistamines23:21
brobostigonoh, sorry,23:21
ZoeRhey, no worries23:21
brobostigonmy apoologies.23:21
* Nafallo throws out ZoeR's tea and makes a new one23:22
ZoeRawww, thanks. :)23:22
ZoeRI have to say it was a right pain finding that one out23:22
ZoeREver tried going to the doctor complaining about feeling really sick after you've been drinking? :)23:23
brobostigoni can imagine.i have some bad and weird and awkward allergies myself.23:23
NafalloZoeR: heh, my father is a doctor... so yeah ;-)23:23
Nafallomy dance class isn't until 11:3023:26
NafalloI was certain it was at 10am or so23:26
* brobostigon has an appointment with his hair dresser just after 10am.23:27
* ZoeR hates morning appointments23:27
Nafallowell, I need to pack enough things for a weekend before I leave home :-)23:27
* brobostigon agree's mostly.23:27
NafalloI bet it'll take me like.. 1h30min to get to the place as well :-/23:28
ZoeRIf anyone tries to organise a meeting with me and it's before 1pm, I will be hating them all the way through it23:28
Nafalloactually. I should probably figure out how I'll get there :-P23:28
brobostigongood night everyone, sleep well.23:29
brobostigongood night ZoeR23:30
* ZoeR needs more tea23:30
ZoeRBack in a sec23:30
Nafallolol. tfl thinks I should take the boat at 10:01 :-)23:32
HazRPGman, its really warm now23:33
HazRPGZoeR: oh hey, :)23:34
HazRPGaww man I just missed brobostigon :(23:35
hamitronit is warm? :/23:35
Baikonurthe thermos?23:35
* hamitron is freezing his thingies off23:35
HazRPGit is in my house...23:36
* HazRPG had heating on - but is now off for the heat factor is too much23:36
hamitronI reckon a cold house is bad for you23:36
hamitroncoffee cools down quicker, so you end up drinking more23:36
Nafallooh. good point.23:37
NafalloI should turn off the heating tomorrow.23:37
HazRPGhamitron: check the link :)23:37
hamitrona coffee flask...23:38
ZoeRCold houses are definitely bad for you. They encourage mould growth23:38
hamitronZoeR: mold is bad for you?23:38
Nafalloand when I said off, I meant 17 degrees instead of 22 :-P23:38
hamitrontbh, I open the window to remove moisture23:38
* Nafallo puts on headphones23:39
ZoeRit's horrible stuff. gets through the blood-brain barrier23:39
hamitronif only I could harvest it to use on people I don't like23:40
ZoeRYou can grow it fairly easily, if my house is anything to go by23:41
* ZoeR will be so glad to move out of here23:41
* hamitron has the window open23:42
hamitrondamn cold23:42
HazRPG:( nothings showing on the TV :(23:43
hamitronyou tuned it in?23:43
HazRPGits an A/V cable23:44
HazRPGshouldn't need tuning23:44
ZoeRYou can't tune a TV nowadays, can you? They need a digibox23:44
HazRPGZoeR: this tv is from 1991 ;)23:44
hamitronofc you can tune a tv!23:44
* ZoeR only has a TV for playing Guitar Hero, so she isn't au fait with how they work23:45
* hamitron sighs23:45
hamitronyoungsters ;)23:45
ZoeRwho is a youngster?23:46
PalaPadDefinitely not me lol23:47
zleapspeccys for ever :)23:47
hamitronzleap: which you got?23:47
zleapzx spectrum 48k+23:47
ZoeRSpeccys were not as good as the good old CPC!23:48
zleapplus the speccy classics 98 cdrom23:48
zleapso i can play emulated game23:48
hamitronZX 128k +2 ;)23:48
HazRPGone out of 2 works :D!23:48
HazRPGalthough, tis a shame... cos I'd rather had the first one working!23:48
hamitronuse for spares?23:49
JamesTaitCPC464 FTW!23:49
hamitrontomorrow I am going to say i3 ftw23:49
* JamesTait goes back to lurking in the shadows.23:49
PalaPadThey has the nasty tape decks iirc23:49
ZoeRCPC464 = Read Error B = AAAAAAAAARGH!23:50
PalaPadGreat for jet set willy 2 though23:50
zleapi have the ms dos port of that23:50
HazRPGhmm, is the screen meant to go a funny colour when you press play :/23:50
NafalloJamesTait: beauty and beast style?23:50
zleapwell wasn't jet set will 2 just jet set willy 1 but bigger23:50
HazRPGoh, apparently it does23:50
JamesTaitNafallo: something like that. :)23:50
hamitronHazRPG: probably23:50
HazRPGtime for some bionic granny apparently23:51
Nafallogood movie, that is.23:51
zleapas latter was for the 48k speccy rather than the 16k speccy23:51
PalaPadWasn't locoscript available for the cpc464 as well?23:51
zleapnot sure23:51
ZoeRNot sure. They had Locomotive BASIC though23:51
* Nafallo considers ice cream23:51
zleapi have a book with a basic to forth interpreter as a program23:51
hamitrondoes stuff for the 16k speccy run in 48k mode?23:51
zleapwell in effect it had 32k useable memory23:51
zleapas 16k was rom,  16k was system and the rest was for prpgrams (binary)23:52
zleapas the upper address space was something like 32768 - 65535 or 8000h to FFFFFF hex23:52
zleapffff hex sorry23:52
zleapso yeah you can run 16k programs on the 48k23:53
hamitronI never spent much time on mine23:53
hamitrongot it 2nd hand, but had a brand new PC23:53
zleapyou can get .tap (tape) files so can emulate it loading i real time23:54
hamitroniirc, it has 4 options on opening screen23:54
* PalaPad got a free room upgrade and a free business class seat on his flight on his trip this week :)23:54
zleapso set it going, go make a drink come back and its loaded23:54
hamitronloader, calc, 48k something and something else23:54
zleapok the 128k had that23:54
hamitronI also have an older ZX, but no tape device for it23:55
hamitronso never tried it23:55
zleapit was like the f16 program, you had to load side 2 on the 48k when you wanted to do a mission, but with the 128k speccy you could load the whole game in,  same for road runner game23:55
zleaptape decks are cheap23:56
zleapgoogle world of spectrum23:56
zleapthey still make games for the speccy23:56
hamitronno point when I have a 128k +223:56
PalaPadMy brother in law was a specie game developer23:56
hamitroninternal tape drive is enough for me23:56
hamitronI'd rather look at what else can be plugged in23:57
hamitronand how to use it properly23:57
zleapi had a +d drive23:57
zleap720k floppy disks23:57
hamitronbut my new comp upgrade tomorrow will distract me again no doubt23:57
zleap16 speccy games or 15 + a game menu23:58
hamitronZX Spectrum+ is my other one23:59

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