[00:07] <shauno> well, that was easy enough.  80G that's gone and another 65G that's being shifted off to external.  should keep me out of trouble until I can get a new laptop
[00:08] <hamitron> :)
[00:09] <hamitron> it must be amazing how much time is spent sorting data, because of all the junk we have
[00:10] <hamitron> if you added up the time all of us take, then consider what could be done if putting that to some productive use
[00:11] <zleap> yeah
[00:11] <shauno> like ... playing minecraft?   ;)
[00:11] <zleap> i spend ages sorting through the piles of rubbish in this room that gets generated as a result of using computers
[00:11] <zleap> print outs, paper, and other stuff
[00:11] <shauno> to be honest, I don't want to be productive 11 minutes after midnight
[00:11] <hamitron> exactly shauno
[00:11] <hamitron> ;)
[00:12] <hamitron> tbh, I consider something like minecraft to be more productive than sorting crap
[00:13] <hamitron> encourages team work :D
[00:16] <zleap> yeah but this crap just piles up
[00:16] <zleap> it needs to be sorted, not just shifted out of sight which I am good at doing
[00:21] <HazRPG> argh!
[00:21] <zleap> sup
[00:21] <HazRPG> don't ya just hate a "until next week" moment
[00:21] <zleap> er yeah
[00:21] <HazRPG> so frustrating
[00:22] <HazRPG> I knew there was a reason I only ever watched old shows
[00:22] <HazRPG> zleap: I was watching being human
[00:22] <zleap> ah
[00:23] <HazRPG> technically it was an old(ish) show, they've just relived it recently
[00:24] <ZoeR> 'ello all
[00:25] <HazRPG> ZoeR: hi, welcome back :)
[00:25] <ZoeR> Thanks, HazRPG
[00:25]  * ZoeR quite likes it here. :)
[00:26] <HazRPG> as I do :)
[00:26] <HazRPG> ZoeR: how's your ubuntu install going?
[00:27] <ZoeR> Pretty well, thanks. I'm loving it so far.
[00:27] <HazRPG> good good :)
[00:27] <ZoeR> I have to admit that it's been over a year since I last had Linux installed because I needed to use the computer for Photoshop work and I didn't have the space for a dual boot. It's good to have it back.
[00:28] <HazRPG> ZoeR: I find GIMP is a good replacement for Photoshop really :)
[00:29] <ZoeR> I found it difficult to get used to the change in layout and the fact that I had to click on the tool box, then click on the tool I wanted, then click on the image before I could use the tool was very annoying
[00:29] <HazRPG> Picasa 3 has been built up to work on linux too, which is good if your just doing simple photo editing
[00:29] <ZoeR> Not really. I'm a cartoonist.
[00:29] <HazRPG> ah
[00:29] <ZoeR> Yeah
[00:30] <HazRPG> hmm, I didn't think you had to click on tool then click on image before use...
[00:31] <HazRPG> yeah, just fiddling around now... and seems you don't have to do that
[00:31] <HazRPG> you can just use it straight away
[00:31] <ZoeR> Really?
[00:31] <HazRPG> yeah
[00:31] <ZoeR> The version of Gimp I had didn't work like that.
[00:31] <ZoeR> I had to click between windows, which was very annoying
[00:32] <ZoeR> Maybe it has been changed. I'll have to look into it.
[00:32] <HazRPG> oh, if you mean pictures are in their own window - then yeah
[00:32] <HazRPG> that hasn't changed, however you can just use the tool straight away
[00:32] <shauno> I get that with gimp on the mac.  the first click in the tool palette brings focus to that window, the second actually does what you thought the first would
[00:33] <ZoeR> That's the problem I was having, shauno
[00:33] <shauno> in my particular case, it's a side-effect of quartz-wm being dumb; the window manager, not gimp
[00:33] <ZoeR> I think Photoshop got around that by acting like everything was in the same window
[00:33] <shauno> it'll act like everything else when you use it on a platform where it's "at home" :)
[00:34] <ZoeR> I'll give it another try, then. :)
[00:34] <HazRPG> hmm, I know GIMP plays funny inside Windows sometimes, but its fine inside ubuntu or any other linux distro :)
[00:34] <shauno> (random aside, I'm really disappointed there's not a better option than gimp by now.)
[00:35] <HazRPG> I guess the only thing GIMP doesn't do is being able to draw your own shapes - but there are ways around that (sort of)
[00:35] <ZoeR> What do you mean by 'draw your own shapes'?
[00:36] <HazRPG> shauno: I think its just the time it takes to make such applications, I mean there isn't really an alternative to blender for example (and that has a steep learning curve if your use to other tools)
[00:36] <shauno> I don't.
[00:36] <HazRPG> ZoeR: one think I like with Photoshop is that you can just start with a blank canvas, and start making stuff using shape tools (square, etc) and then filter them, twist them around etc
[00:37] <directhex> boing
[00:37] <shauno> I use an app called pixelmator, which is incredibly young, and already beats the gimp for everything but scriptability
[00:37] <HazRPG> thing* not think
[00:37] <ZoeR> Ah, right. Yeah Photoshop is good for shapes like that.
[00:37] <HazRPG> yeah
[00:38] <HazRPG> in gimp, to do the same effect you have to grab a section of the screen and then fill it with colour, then you can manipulate it - so takes a bit longer then just dragging a shape
[00:39] <HazRPG> oooh, one thing I should note... Wine works a lot better than it did a year ago, more windows applications *just work* now without fiddling
[00:39] <HazRPG> however I haven't tested photoshop CS3 and above
[00:39] <HazRPG> older than CS3 works though
[00:40] <HazRPG> the new custom interface they've done just seems to scramble around, or not display at all - which is strange
[00:42] <HazRPG> shauno: ah dude, I just thought... hasn't inkscape been done to try and do things that gimp can't?
[00:43] <shauno> sorta.  gimp is raster-based, inkscape is vector-based
[00:43] <ZoeR> Well, I just tried out Gimp and it's acting like Photoshop does in terms of tool selection, which is good.
[00:43] <HazRPG> ZoeR: thought it did :)
[00:43] <ZoeR> On the other hand, it looks like I've got my weekend sorted now because Ubuntu doesn't like my graphics tablet
[00:44] <HazRPG> shauno: oh, well yeah inkscape is more similar to illustrator
[00:44] <ZoeR> It is only registering mouse movement if I'm pressing the pen to the tablet, which is fine for drawing lines but not good for moving the pen from place to place.
[00:44] <ZoeR> I think that's probably a config issue though
[00:44] <HazRPG> ZoeR: which tablet is it?
[00:45] <shauno> it'd be interesting if they could mate the two, and then get someone to completely ditch gimp's UI and start again.  not bandaid it.  fix it.
[00:45] <ZoeR> Some generic thing from Nisis
[00:49] <ZoeR> Erk. It's almost 1am. I should probably get some work done.
[00:49] <HazRPG> ZoeR: this might interest you: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AiptekTablet
[00:49] <HazRPG> ZoeR: might help fix your tablet issue ;)
[00:50] <ZoeR> Oooh. Thanks! :D
[00:52]  * ZoeR bookmarks that page to come back to later.
[00:52] <HazRPG> hopefully its not overly complicated
[00:52] <ZoeR> It can't be more complicated than compiling my own kernel
[00:52] <ZoeR> Can it?
[00:52]  * ZoeR found that really tricky the first few times
[00:54] <HazRPG> nah, much simpler than that :)
[00:54] <ZoeR> I always get worried when trying out a new kernel. I can't help thinking I'll have left out something fundamental, like keyboard support. Or memory.
[00:55] <HazRPG> just reading through that page, in the examples it says its written the product ID as a generic one but might be better for putting your own in
[00:55] <HazRPG> I'm guessing the tablet is plugged via USB, if so just type in "lsusb"
[00:56] <shauno> I always had the opposite problem.  trying to include so much in the kernel that it wouldn't fit on a floppy :/
[00:56] <hamitron> it fits on a floppy now? ;)
[00:56] <shauno> no idea, it's been quite a while since I had to do that :)
[00:56] <HazRPG> look for your tablet in the list, and grab the product ID from that... it'll output it in this form: Bus xxx Device yyy: ID iiii:jjjj <device name>
[00:57] <HazRPG> the jjjj is the product ID, and iiii is the vendor ID
[00:57] <ZoeR> Cool. Thanks.
[00:57] <hamitron> shauno: I will be trying an older within the next week, see how I can get ubuntu working
[00:57] <hamitron> older comp*
[00:57] <HazRPG> hopefully that made sense :)
[00:58] <HazRPG> don't need to worry about xxx or yyy, that's just where they're connected on your motherboard :)
[00:59] <shauno> hamitron: used to be you could boot straight from the kernel, without requiring lilo & such.  been a *long* time since I tried it that way tho
[00:59] <HazRPG> shauno: technically you still can I think :S
[00:59] <ZoeR> You can boot without lilo?
[01:00]  * ZoeR didn't know that.
[01:00] <ZoeR> Shows how much I know, doesn't it? It's always been there while I've been using Linux.
[01:01] <shauno> a basic mbr (such as what windows used at the time, or the 'mbr' package in debian & ubuntu) just reads the partition table, picks the first partition it finds that's marked bootable, and starts execution from the start of the partition
[01:01] <shauno> so dd the kernel into the boot partition, and reboot
[01:01] <HazRPG> ZoeR: Hmm, ubuntu uses GRUB unless you tell it otherwise
[01:01] <ZoeR> Yeah, I never liked Grub.
[01:01] <HazRPG> ZoeR: any reason?
[01:02] <ZoeR> The first distro I used was Red Hat 5.2 and it had Lilo. I understood how its config files worked and Grub worked differently, so I didn't like it.
[01:02] <directhex> cool kids use elilo
[01:02]  * ZoeR is the embodiment of They Changed It Now It Sucks
[01:02] <shauno> grub's a whole lot more powerful, so the extra configuration kinda comes with the territory
[01:02] <HazRPG> hmm, does lilo let you boot in straight from an iso?
[01:03] <ZoeR> Not that I recall
[01:03] <shauno> hah.  you'll have to challenge hamitron for that title :p
[01:03] <directhex> shauno, the main useful thing about grub is it has a shell, so you can dig yourself out of a hole
[01:03] <HazRPG> can't say I've ever messed around with lilo other than it being on a fedora liveCD
[01:03] <ZoeR> But if I challenged hamitron and won, that would change things and then I'd suck!
[01:03] <directhex> shauno, when lilo goes wrong, you need to chroot into your system to make it boot
[01:03] <directhex> from a cd or somesuch
[01:03] <shauno> directhex: I think the biggest point is that grub is fs-aware.  the shell would be useless without that :)
[01:04]  * ZoeR has experience of lilo going wrong. :(
[01:04] <ZoeR> It told me I didn't exist and should go away
[01:04] <HazRPG> hamitron: if your going to install on an old machine, I'd recommend doing it from ubuntu-server and then picking a desktop environment yourself, either that or use the alt-cd and pick recovery mode when after you've installed it - that way you can change the environment, because depending on what your going to put it on Gnome2 might not be the best plan for it
[01:05] <ZoeR> If I hadn't had an essay to write at the time, I might have laughed at that
[01:05] <shauno> lilo doesn't go wrong.  it just turns into 'li'.  then sits there staring at you.
[01:05] <HazRPG> shauno: haha I have actually see that before
[01:06] <HazRPG> I've seen grub just sit at "grub>" before too though
[01:06] <shauno> you're meant to.  that's how you fault-find lilo.  you can usually guess the problem from how much of the word 'lilo' it prints out
[01:06] <HazRPG> shauno: wow, didn't know that
[01:07] <ZoeR> Yeah, it's a nice error-reporting system but you have to know what it means to use it.
[01:07] <HazRPG> is it just me, but boot loaders just remind me of disney :/
[01:07] <HazRPG> grub - lion king
[01:07] <HazRPG> lilo - lilo and stich
[01:07] <shauno> no more cryptic than boot beeps
[01:07] <ZoeR> No, don't say that. Now every time I boot my computer I'll have "circle of life" in my head
[01:07] <shauno> what do you think the ubuntu logo is :p
[01:07] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, but boot beeps can vary with system to system - which is frustrating in itself
[01:08] <ZoeR> I had owned a PC for three years before I worked out that the beeps meant something!
[01:08] <HazRPG> ZoeR: hehe :P
[01:08]  * ZoeR thought it was just the sound chip turning on
[01:08] <shauno> the servers we use at work atm have a row of 4 lights on.  when it boots they're all yellow, then they go green one by one.  it's really no different to lilo printing out one character at each stage
[01:08] <shauno> simple works :)
[01:09] <HazRPG> ZoeR: when I was 12 I assumed it was the computer telling you that things were go to go
[01:09] <HazRPG> always felt like a PC was like an army wait, awaiting orders all the time
[01:09] <HazRPG> awaiting*
[01:09] <HazRPG> man***
[01:09] <ZoeR> I just noticed the channel topic. Does that mean I just advertised my lack of knowledge to the world?
[01:09] <ZoeR> "this channel is publicly archived" and all that
[01:09]  * ZoeR feels daft now
[01:10] <HazRPG> ZoeR: I wouldn't worry, should see some of the stuff I come out with sometimes
[01:10] <ZoeR> I'll make a note to look later.
[01:10] <ZoeR> :)
[01:10] <HazRPG> ZoeR: haha
[01:11] <HazRPG> *blushes*
[01:11] <hamitron> HazRPG: I am going to use the mini.iso
[01:11] <HazRPG> hamitron: didn't realise there was one!
[01:11] <shauno> not slating grub mind.  was just trying to put some kinda timescale to how long it's been since I had to build a kernel
[01:11] <HazRPG> shauno: I figured that :P
[01:11] <HazRPG> gotta admit, grub has come a long wait since its inception
[01:11] <HazRPG> way*
[01:12] <HazRPG> argh, what's with my typing
[01:12]  * hamitron has had less problems with lilo
[01:12] <shauno> it's handy enough that I have a CD that just has grub on.  'nuff said
[01:12] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, I have it on a multi-boot pen drive
[01:13] <HazRPG> ironically, grub boots up from lilo
[01:13] <shauno> not syslinux?
[01:13] <ZoeR> Heh. Just got a text message saying "Yesterday was International Women Eating Pancakes Day"
[01:13] <directhex> isolinux!
[01:13] <shauno> lol, sorry
[01:13] <HazRPG> shauno: hmm, well its picked from a list - and looks lilo coloured, always assumed it was lilo
[01:14] <shauno> stong chance it's not.  lilo never got on well with CDs
[01:14] <hamitron> I remember hating the gui lilo started to provide
[01:15] <shauno> (lilo just dies if anything gets relocated.  that doesn't go down well with removable drives)
[01:15] <HazRPG> hamitron: hmm, that reminds me, keep meaning to do some mods to my grub-loader
[01:15] <hamitron> grub always breaks with me, and I not even tried grub2
[01:15] <hamitron> well, tweaking anyway
[01:16] <HazRPG> hmm, you not running 10.10?
[01:16] <HazRPG> or even 10.04
[01:16] <hamitron> no
[01:16] <hamitron> I have 10.04 on a test machine
[01:16] <HazRPG> hamitron: you seriously do hate change don't you :P
[01:17] <hamitron> I just expect hardware to work with my OS
[01:17] <hamitron> ;/
[01:17] <hamitron> I upgraded all my old machines to a cheap batch of tnt2 cards
[01:17] <hamitron> and the new xorg won't work with old nvidia drivers
[01:17] <hamitron> so just waiting
[01:18] <HazRPG> yeah, but not updating one's software or even O/S related stuff ... is just leaving themselves prune to attacks (not that I'm paranoid or anything, he says looking over his shoulder)
[01:18] <hamitron> I get security updates for another month
[01:18] <hamitron> ;/
[01:18] <ZoeR> I have to admit that Nvidia drivers on Linux are annoying. I hate having to tweak my display configs just to stop getting a headache when I boot the computer.
[01:18] <HazRPG> that might be true, but older stuff only supports software up to a certain version
[01:19] <hamitron> I will be upgrading to 10.04 with open source drivers
[01:19] <HazRPG> I recall pidgin not allowing me to log into MSN because they're changed their protocol, and the pidgin in the repo wasn't updated for over 7 months
[01:19] <ZoeR> Especially when the system thinks everything is fine and will tell you this while the monitor is fizzing
[01:20] <directhex> i use fglrx :x
[01:20] <hamitron> and moving a few machines back to XP
[01:20] <HazRPG> hamitron: :o
[01:20] <HazRPG> directhex: is that the open-source nvidia drivers?
[01:21] <directhex> HazRPG, the closed-source ati driver
[01:21] <ZoeR> Well if you're going to use Windows, XP is the version to go with. It's the nicest of the lot.
[01:21] <HazRPG> ZoeR: heh, computers can do some strange things sometimes
[01:21] <hamitron> HazRPG: that is why I think it is bad how some projects like xorg just advance so fast
[01:21] <HazRPG> my favourite error message of all time is "to continue press any key" and people getting confused as to where the any key is
[01:21] <ZoeR> HazRPG: Yeah, don't I know it.
[01:21] <hamitron> :)
[01:22] <directhex> xp feels like what it is: a decade-old os to compete with suse 7.3
[01:22] <ZoeR> Cue the old "keyboard missing, press any key to continue" jokes
[01:22] <shauno> *F1 to continue
[01:22] <hamitron> directhex: but it works, ubuntu doesn't have drivers for it in the newer version
[01:23] <HazRPG> ZoeR: haha that would be my favourite bios message
[01:23] <ZoeR> XP is okay. You can cut out the superfluous bumph, kill the teletubby GUI and get it to run fairly well.
[01:23] <HazRPG> shauno: it can vary from bios to bios
[01:23] <shauno> it kinda makes sense.  "I can't find the keyboard; show me where it is"
[01:23] <hamitron> linux used to be a way to recycle an old machine, but now it seems to drop support for hardware faster than MS OS
[01:23] <directhex> hamitron, for TNT2?
[01:23] <hamitron> yes
[01:23] <hamitron> and geforce 2
[01:23] <directhex> hamitron, drv_nv still supports TNT2
[01:23] <HazRPG> shauno: that would be a better message then asking you to press F1
[01:24] <hamitron> directhex: with opengl?
[01:24] <shauno> HazRPG: nah, too ambiguous.  you'd get some farmer waving the keyboard at the computer
[01:24] <directhex> hamitron, you want nvidia's proprietary driver on a tnt2?
[01:24] <hamitron> yes
[01:24] <ZoeR> "show me where it is" would just have the computer illiterate shaking their keyboards at the monitor, shouting "here it is, damnit! Look! Look!"
[01:24] <HazRPG> shauno: xD!!!
[01:24] <ZoeR> shauno: snap!
[01:24] <HazRPG> shauno: I actually have that image in my head now!
[01:24] <hamitron> therefore I need X.org 7.3 or earlier
[01:24] <hamitron> :/
[01:25] <hamitron> I did look into CentOS, but it is compiled for i686
[01:26] <shauno> ?  what's the target machine
[01:26] <HazRPG> "we've installed voice recognition software on your computer... it make take a while to get the pitch right, but it'll be fine go right ahead!"
[01:26] <HazRPG> "hello computer"
[01:26] <HazRPG> i386 I think he said the other day
[01:26] <hamitron> shauno: i586
[01:26] <directhex> hamitron, you need a 71.xx driver, which nvidia haven't bothered updating?
[01:26] <HazRPG> ah bums, i586 even
[01:26] <hamitron> they update for new kernels
[01:27] <hamitron> but to support the new X.org would require a re-write
[01:27]  * HazRPG has an urge to crack out the IT crowd DVD's now
[01:27] <hamitron> they did re-write a lot of 96.xx specially
[01:28] <shauno> hamitron: seriously?  I think 586 maxes out around 233-300 ?
[01:28] <hamitron> 550mhz
[01:28] <hamitron> ;/
[01:28] <hamitron> more in fact
[01:28] <HazRPG> hamitron: turbo button ;)
[01:28] <hamitron> I have 3 machines with 850mhz
[01:28] <directhex> 586? noooo
[01:28]  * HazRPG misses the days of turbo buttons
[01:28] <hamitron> VIA C3 cpu
[01:28] <directhex> oh... via
[01:28] <hamitron> AMD Geode
[01:28] <shauno> ugh
[01:28] <directhex> those are technically cpus. technically
[01:29] <directhex> ish
[01:29] <directhex> give or take
[01:29] <shauno> less give, more take
[01:29] <hamitron> just missing some new instructions ;)
[01:29] <directhex> slightly slower than a minecraft cpu running in an emulator on a mobile phone
[01:30] <hamitron> cheap or free, are most my comps :)
[01:30] <HazRPG> ZoeR: we don't always just talk computers in here btw, before we scare you off :P
[01:30] <shauno> atleast the geode is meant to be low power
[01:30] <hamitron> the VIA is
[01:30] <hamitron> ;/
[01:30] <shauno> so it's not going to cost you more in utility bills than it does in time wasted waiting for it to do something
[01:30] <ZoeR> HazRPG: I got my first computer when I was four. Talking about computers is fine with me. :)
[01:31] <hamitron> shauno: it is true it would be silly setting intensive tasks on these cpu
[01:31] <hamitron> :)
[01:31] <directhex> i tested a via system once
[01:31] <directhex> 1ghz c7
[01:31] <directhex> i wrote it off as an absolute waste of time and money
[01:31] <hamitron> c7 was a beast compared to the c3
[01:31] <directhex> yes
[01:31] <hamitron> hehe
[01:31] <shauno> my problem with via (and cyrix) is that they complete redefine what 'intensive' is
[01:31] <directhex> and c7 was beyond unusably awful
[01:32] <hamitron> I use all c3 machines fine
[01:32] <hamitron> with 256mb ram
[01:32] <HazRPG> ZoeR: wow, lucky - I didn't get my own computer till I was 8-10... I mainly hijacked my mum's when she wasn't trying to do essays, half the time she preferred using a type-writer or writing by hand anyways
[01:32] <shauno> you should try a gumstix
[01:32] <shauno> runs from an AA, and possibly more powerful :)
[01:32] <hamitron> tbh, they are giving me less of a headache than these old nvidia cards
[01:33] <ZoeR> My parents thought it would be a good idea to get my sister an I a computer because they were going to be "the next big thing". This was back in 1984 so I suppose they were ahead of their time in thinking that. I think they regretted it though, given the amount of time I spent on it.
[01:34] <hamitron> shauno: I will just use something that works on these machines, buying something to replace them is not really recycling :/
[01:34] <directhex> best way to explain c7 is with how well it handles playing a video. http://img.hexus.net/v2/motherboards/via/pico/dvdrip-h264-big.jpg
[01:34] <hamitron> ffs
[01:34] <hamitron> you don't play video
[01:34] <hamitron> ;/
[01:34] <hamitron> they play mp3 fine
[01:35] <shauno> hamitron: if I didn't think the shipping would break the bank, I'd donate you my footrest
[01:35] <hamitron> footrest?
[01:35] <shauno> p4 celeron, somewhere around 2.3GHz I think
[01:35] <shauno> not much use as a computer, so I use it as a foot rest
[01:35] <hamitron> haha
[01:36] <hamitron> but they are useful...
[01:36] <HazRPG> ZoeR: my dad kept catching me sneak out his Sharp MZ-721 to play games, that he eventually just gave me it since he never used it himself - he thought it was pointless because it barely did anything (was built in the 70's)
[01:36] <hamitron> allt his talk of c64 in here... and all i586 are faster
[01:36] <hamitron> all this*
[01:36] <directhex> and every via mhz is a crap mhz
[01:36] <HazRPG> still can't believe that thing actually works too
[01:37] <HazRPG> still actually works*
[01:37] <directhex> i clocked an amd64 at 1ghz, and compared to a 1ghz c7... http://img.hexus.net/v2/motherboards/via/pico/lametimes.jpg
[01:37] <shauno> that's different.  a c64 is actually a different beast.
[01:37] <ZoeR> I think I remember the MZ-721. As I recall, a friend had one.
[01:37] <shauno> your via is just another x86.  just 20 years slower than the rest of them
[01:37] <hamitron> shauno: but still a machine that can be played with
[01:38] <HazRPG> ZoeR: one of these: http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-026.jpg ?
[01:39] <hamitron> I know my VIA C3 850mhz is about equal to my AMD K6-2 450mhz, that performs like a p2 266mhz
[01:39] <hamitron> ;)
[01:39] <shauno> that's what makes me sad.  it'd atleast make sense if it was something that was useful when it was new
[01:39] <hamitron> they were
[01:39] <HazRPG> ironically, they were all marked as MZ-700's but on the bottom they had either MZ-711, 721 or 731 - there wasn't actually a MZ-700 (it was more just a generic name for it)
[01:40] <hamitron> low power and fine for basic use
[01:40] <ZoeR> HazRPG: Yeah, that looks like the bunny! We used to play some weird game on it where a guy had to steal his clothes back off aliens. 'Streaker' or something, I think.
[01:40] <hamitron> I use them in jukebox systems
[01:40] <HazRPG> hamitron, I must agree with shauno... the c64 is a complete different kettle of fish!
[01:40] <HazRPG> ZoeR: haha, yeah I remember that one :P
[01:41] <directhex> hamitron, i have an 800mhz ARM here you might like...
[01:41] <hamitron> directhex: I would like an arm sometime :)
[01:41] <shauno> now that would be interesting
[01:41] <ZoeR> HazRPG: I eventually tracked down a copy for my Amstrad CPC but it wasn't worth the effort. By the time I got a copy for myself, it had lost its appeal.
[01:41] <hamitron> I have a 300mhz sparq...
[01:41] <HazRPG> ZoeR: you can actually download an emulator for the MZ-700 series straight into ubuntu :)
[01:41] <hamitron> \o/
[01:41] <shauno> a pizza box?
[01:41] <HazRPG> and all the games and software are hosted on here legally: http://www.sharpmz.org/index.html
[01:41] <ZoeR> HazRPG: I'd better not. I'll never get any work done!
[01:42] <directhex> funny thing is, via c7 is actually terrible for efficiency
[01:42] <HazRPG> ZoeR: hehe, much like my c64 addiction I've got going on at the moment (oops!)
[01:42] <ZoeR> :)
[01:42] <hamitron> I never saw the point of the c7
[01:42] <hamitron> it was trying to be powerful for media, and failed
[01:42] <directhex> a 1ghz c7 is 9W
[01:43] <directhex> a 1.06ghz core 2 duo is 10W
[01:43] <ZoeR> HazRPG: I never had much time for the C64. People kept telling me it was superior to the CPC but I loved my Arnold too much to listen. :)
[01:43] <shauno> I had a cpc :/
[01:43] <hamitron> directhex: I got my c3 on a motherboard for 20 quid each, brand new
[01:43] <HazRPG> ZoeR: heh, yeah I was replaying some of the games on the MZ-700's on different machines which had been upgraded with better graphics and sounds - and didn't seem as good as the first time round
[01:43] <directhex> ZoeR, we had the welshest of home computers
[01:43] <shauno> drove me nuts because I had a cpc464, and the only person I knew with one had a 646.  so all his games were on disks, mine were on tapes.  booo.
[01:44] <hamitron> I am considering making a comp sometime
[01:44] <hamitron> :/
[01:44] <hamitron> using a fpga
[01:44] <HazRPG> ZoeR: see, I didn't get the craze back then either, but then again I would never have gotten one either way (parents thought I wouldn't do anything if all I did was play games all day long)
[01:44]  * ZoeR had a CPC464 which was chip-swapped with a 6128 CPU. It was great
[01:44] <directhex> to what end?
[01:44] <ZoeR> I still have it, in fact
[01:45] <shauno> mine died of a ketchup overdose
[01:45] <ZoeR> oops
[01:45] <HazRPG> ZoeR: nice
[01:45] <HazRPG> shauno: oopsie!
[01:46] <shauno> I thought it was a good thing at the time, meant we got a new computer :)
[01:46] <HazRPG> shauno: sounds like our first set of betamax drives, all my army men and other little toys kept finding their way inside and ruining them apparently
[01:46] <HazRPG> shauno: parents never did understand why I kept doing it (I was maybe 2 at the time)
[01:46] <shauno> hah.  I'm the eldest of 5.  we rented tv/vcr so that someone else would fix it
[01:47] <HazRPG> I have a feeling I kept doing it to hopefully see them show up on the TV - but never worked
[01:47] <ZoeR> awww
[01:47] <shauno> apparently the leading cause of vcr death in our house was cheese on toast, not army men
[01:47]  * ZoeR goes to find her CPC
[01:47] <HazRPG> shauno: haha
[01:47] <HazRPG> ZoeR: ooo, if you do, take pictures!
[01:48] <HazRPG> can't say I know what a CPC actually is *_*
[01:48] <HazRPG> never mind what one looks like!
[01:48] <shauno> they really are a silly design.  if you don't want kids playing with it, don't put it 3" off the floor with a letterbox on the front
[01:48] <HazRPG> shauno: haha, very true!
[01:49] <shauno> cpc was an ugly bugger.  the keyboard was so ugly, that XP may have derived some inspiration from it
[01:49] <HazRPG> shauno: my parents eventually learned it was better to place balance the thing on top of the TV (thankfully had a flat top) that way I couldn't ruin any more betamax or vhs drives
[01:50] <ZoeR> The CPC was lovely
[01:50] <shauno> never had betamax, or top-loaders.  my parents worked for a living :p
[01:50]  * ZoeR cuddles her CPC
[01:50] <HazRPG> shauno: hey! so did mine!
[01:50] <HazRPG> shauno: in fact, main reason I never saw my dad half the time, cos he worked out in saudi
[01:50] <ZoeR> We had a top-loading VCR that lasted about eight times as long as any other VCR I owned
[01:51] <shauno> mine worked in the atlantic :)
[01:51] <HazRPG> shauno: can't say we ever owned a top-loader
[01:51] <shauno> also!  http://media.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/news/3206319/amstrad_cpc464.jpg
[01:51] <HazRPG> shauno: reason we had betamax was because all the tapes in saudi were only betamax form... so every time my dad came back with some for us to watch, we needed something to play them with
[01:51] <HazRPG> also the reason we had a TV that was both PAL and NTSC at the same time
[01:51] <shauno> which was exactly what mine looked like, because it was the first computer I had that actually required a monitor, rather than a TV
[01:51] <ZoeR> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nobmouse/5513235457/ - my CPC, with extras
[01:52] <shauno> I are not impressed with joystick
[01:52] <HazRPG> ZoeR: heh, nice guessing you found it then :)
[01:52] <ZoeR> I didn't include the monitor in my picture because it is in the corner of my office, under a scanner
[01:53] <HazRPG> shauno: does look a bit dodgy doesn't it :P
[01:53] <shauno> it's the wrong shape!
[01:53] <ZoeR> HazRPG: Yeah. It was under a coffee table with my shoes on it
[01:53] <HazRPG> shauno: also, what's wrong with that design? Beats the design of my fag-stain-looking MZ-700
[01:53] <shauno> get a speedking.  your life will thank you :D
[01:54] <ZoeR> shauno: That particular type of joystick is designed to fit in the palm of the hand, with the fire buttons being activated by your index and middle fingers while the stick part is operated with the thumb
[01:54] <shauno> http://www.thosewerethedays.de/items/joysticks/konix_speedking.jpg
[01:54] <shauno> konix <3
[01:54]  * HazRPG tries to work out what the black thing is in the background
[01:54] <ZoeR> Also, for anyone with small hands, the Cheetah Bug was a godsend.
[01:54] <HazRPG> ZoeR: interesting (the whole joystick thing)
[01:54] <ZoeR> HazRPG: Do you mean the shreader?
[01:55] <HazRPG> ZoeR: ah is that what it is!
[01:55] <shauno> konix sits in your palm instead of being suckered to the table too.  but worked better with gangly fingers
[01:55] <ZoeR> Yup
[01:55] <HazRPG> for some reason I thought it was a computer
[01:55] <ZoeR> Nope. Not a scanner either, despite what I told my cousin once.
[01:56] <shauno> goodbye vacation photos?
[01:56] <HazRPG> man, I'd go get my mz-721, but its at my dad's, would take me half hr to get there and back >_<
[01:56] <HazRPG> not that it matters, no one really lives there anymore
[01:57] <ZoeR> shauno: Unfortunately not. He's not as daft as he looks.
[01:57]  * HazRPG giggles at the fact that someone *may* or *may not* have destroyed some photos/work with that prank
[01:57] <shauno> you'd think the box of hamster bedding would give it away
[01:58] <HazRPG> haha
[01:58] <HazRPG> shauno: see, that would be cruel to say "its the hamster cage"
[01:58] <HazRPG> although, would be funny someone trying to shove cheese through the top :P
[01:58] <shauno> well, yes.  pranking your cousin and shredding your hamster are on entirely different scales
[01:59] <HazRPG> shauno: !! I said nothing of shedding hamsters (for the record) - I'm not that cruel
[01:59] <shauno> (that should be a little bit sick, except the internet taught me that a gerbil in a blender is a funny thing)
[02:00] <shauno> our heads will never be the same again.
[02:00] <HazRPG> shauno: is that the gerbil from the say guy who made supafly by any chance?
[02:00] <HazRPG> same* not say*
[02:01] <ZoeR> Well it's 2am and I've done hardly any work today so I'm going to have to say goodnight, everyone.
[02:01] <ZoeR> Got to put the old nose to the grindstone
[02:01] <HazRPG> never heard that phrase before
[02:01] <HazRPG> and also, ... aww your leaving us!
[02:01] <ZoeR> Which, now I think about it, is a horrible phrase. What use would a ground nose be?
[02:01] <HazRPG> :(
[02:02] <ZoeR> Sorry. I'll be back later!
[02:02]  * ZoeR waves
[02:02] <HazRPG> \o/ hurray!
[02:02] <HazRPG> ZoeR|Working: see ya later
[02:02] <directhex> BEDTIME
[02:02] <HazRPG> directhex: night dude
[02:03] <shauno> HazRPG: yes, the supafly guy.  joecartoon :D
[02:03] <HazRPG> shauno: that's the guy! Couldn't think of his name :P
[02:04] <shauno> it took me a smoke break to remember :/
[02:04] <HazRPG> "I'm supafly! Ya wanna know why! 'Cause I did this to yo mama!"
[02:04] <HazRPG> shauno: *shakes head around* wait you smoke too?
[02:04] <shauno> guilty
[02:05] <HazRPG> and it took you only 4 minutes to do? (assuming you went outside)
[02:05] <HazRPG> shauno: no need to be, I don't feel guilty that I do
[02:05] <shauno> yes, and yes
[02:06] <shauno> I've never smoked indoors, so michigan winters taught me to get back inside quick
[02:06] <HazRPG> just because society has made it look bad (which yeah I know it is...), doesn't mean other things aren't worse for us - yet people aren't judged for that
[02:06] <HazRPG> I can imagine!
[02:07] <shauno> nah, I do think it's a fundamentally bad thing.  I just have zero willpower.
[02:07] <HazRPG> Doesn't it get up to like -20 or more up there!
[02:07] <shauno> up's kinda the wrong word :)
[02:07] <HazRPG> shauno: its why its called an addiction :P
[02:08] <HazRPG> up, being that its to the left and above from where we're currently located
[02:08] <HazRPG> not the temp. :P
[02:08] <shauno> in 5 years, I saw -40 once.  pretty awesome
[02:08] <HazRPG> if that's your idea of awesome, I'd hate to see what your idea of epic is :P
[02:09] <HazRPG> I joke of course :P
[02:09] <shauno> had to cycle into work at 6am because my boss couldn't get his car to start.  was a fun morning
[02:09] <HazRPG> do I sense a hit of sarcasm in that :P
[02:09] <shauno> no, I actually enjoyed it
[02:10] <shauno> odd to describe, but interesting being the only one that could get into town; usually I'd be laughed at for being the only one cycling in winter
[02:11] <shauno> mostly because I bought a silly car that couldn't drive in snow :D
[02:11] <HazRPG> heh
[02:12] <shauno> mini's not fantastic for ground-clearance
[02:12] <HazRPG> wait, that must be a culture shock to go from driving one side of the road, to the... oh wait, I just remember ireland drives on the left too - ignore me
[02:12] <shauno> ireland's on the same side as the UK
[02:12] <HazRPG> hmm, must just be my dad's friends car then
[02:12] <shauno> in the US, I honestly rarely noticed the difference
[02:13] <shauno> if you're out in the sticks, you'll pull out of a junction onto the wrong side of the road
[02:13] <HazRPG> I learned to drive on the left originally when I was 14 by my uncles friend, was strange to actually sit my test when I was 18 in the UK
[02:13] <shauno> if there's any other traffic on the road *at all*, your head figures out the whole concept of oncoming traffic very easily
[02:14] <shauno> also; http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2352.jpg
[02:14] <HazRPG> haha
[02:14] <HazRPG> the grill and the way the lights are formed, it almost looks like its frowning!
[02:15] <shauno> indeed
[02:15] <HazRPG> either that, or severally pissed off
[02:15] <shauno> I have a good one around here somewhere, but I'm not sure where
[02:16] <shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/mini-chev.jpg   :D
[02:17] <HazRPG> classic :)
[02:17] <HazRPG> hard to see mini's like that now
[02:17] <HazRPG> me and my friends use to play the mini-game
[02:18] <shauno> punch herbie?
[02:18] <HazRPG> ... that would be the one
[02:18] <shauno> we played it with bugs :)
[02:18] <HazRPG> although we'd shout "mini-bop!"
[02:18] <HazRPG> I got double-points once for spotting a mini-pickup
[02:19] <HazRPG> never even thought they'd existed!
[02:19] <shauno> there's some proper funky minis
[02:19] <shauno> I'd be torn between a mini-mini, and a moke, for which is oddest
[02:19] <HazRPG> looked somewhat like this: http://www.toysonics.com/images/D/ppic07.jpg
[02:20] <shauno> I've seen people take the back seats out and shorten minis.  ends up looking like a clown car
[02:20] <HazRPG> heh
[02:20] <shauno> and the moke was actually a production car, looked like "if jeep made minis"
[02:21] <HazRPG> man, why can't I find subs for this film :( http://www.nesworld.com/movie-lifein8bits.php
[02:21] <HazRPG> the whole world expects us to translate our stuff, but they won't translate their stuff :(
[02:21] <HazRPG> shauno: nice
[02:21]  * HazRPG does a quick google on moke
[02:22] <shauno> http://www.slowcarclub.com/santapod-07/cool-mini.jpg    that has to be the most awesome 'shortened mini' I've ever seen
[02:22] <HazRPG> haha winner
[02:23] <HazRPG> be a b**** in the rain though
[02:23] <shauno> leaving the roof on isn't really an option :/  ends up like http://www.stupidvehicles.com/images/2009/jan/short_mini.jpg
[02:24] <HazRPG> xD
[02:24] <shauno> but they usually leave the windscreen alone, just like any other softtop.  that 'cool-mini' is one step more awesomer
[02:25] <shauno> (altho I'm still very fond of my "completely unadulterated 1974".  so much so that I haven't sold it yet.  it's still in a shed in michigan)
[02:26] <shauno> I really should, it's costing me $150/month to store.  but we weren't meant to be here this long :/
[02:26] <HazRPG> wow amazing :)
[02:26] <HazRPG> woah, I thought you meant it was at your mum's or something...
[02:26] <shauno> nope.  she left michigan not long after I did
[02:27] <shauno> it's proper lonely
[02:28] <shauno> downside of having my externals hooked up to my router.  this AEBS gizmo has pretty awful write speeds.
[02:31] <shauno> may have to dig out an ethernet cord. the move I started when I figured out my root was full, has done 3 of 64Gb
[02:31] <shauno> at which rate I'm pretty convinced is going to take >24hrs
[02:37] <HazRPG> ouch
[02:38] <HazRPG> wait, how's it connected right now? wireless?
[02:40] <shauno> yeah
[02:40] <shauno> doesn't everyone use wifi with laptops?
[02:40] <HazRPG> <== wired
[02:41] <shauno> no point in a laptop you can't move :)
[02:41] <HazRPG> in more ways then one xD
[02:41]  * HazRPG glugs some more red bull
[02:41] <shauno> altho with the screen dead, mine's anchored to the crt :(
[02:42] <HazRPG> shauno: my battery has recently decided to give way ... so I know the feeling
[02:42] <shauno> replacing it soon enough tho, so I can finally quit whining :)
[02:42] <HazRPG> shauno: I'm sad that my favourite range of HP laptops has died out :(
[02:43] <shauno> that ...
[02:43] <shauno> wow.
[02:43] <HazRPG> what?
[02:43] <shauno> very low opinion of hp's consumer laptops
[02:44] <HazRPG> it came with Vista Business - so I would assume its marketed for business folk
[02:44] <shauno> there's basically 3 options for laptops
[02:44] <shauno> if you need something cheap & reliable enough to stock out a whole office, dell inspiron
[02:44] <shauno> if you're buying for yourself, thinkpad or macbook pro
[02:45] <ZoeR> 'Ello again
[02:45] <HazRPG> ZoeR: \o
[02:45]  * ZoeR waves
[02:45] <HazRPG> shauno: hmm, thinkpad? Really?
[02:45] <ZoeR> The time has come when Relentless just isn't keeping me awake any more.
[02:46] <HazRPG> ZoeR: I find caffeine has no effect on my anymore
[02:46] <ZoeR> I am going to grab a few hours of what those wacky people you see in the street may call 'kip'
[02:46] <shauno> yes.
[02:46] <HazRPG> I tend to have to go on detox every 6 months just for it to start working again
[02:46] <ZoeR> HazRPG: I know the feeling. I wish I didn't but I do.
[02:46] <ZoeR> I can't detox. I get headaches if I do and I fall asleep all the time
[02:47] <HazRPG> ZoeR: that's the whole point of detoxing ;)
[02:47] <ZoeR> Also, my medication makes me sleepy, so I need caffeine to function like a normal human being
[02:47] <ZoeR> So I suppose it's bedtime for me.
[02:47] <shauno> caffeine is vital.  too much blood in the caffeinestream makes people sleepy
[02:47] <ZoeR> shauno is right
[02:47] <HazRPG> heh, see my problem is I'm hyper by nature, so I need to feed myself caffeine to stay stable - which is rather weird to say out loud
[02:48] <HazRPG> without it, I'd be asleep most of the time
[02:48] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, yeah... can't have too much blood now can we :P
[02:49] <ZoeR> Mmm... blood
[02:49] <ZoeR> I hear it is useful
[02:49] <shauno> all good things in moderation :)
[02:49] <ZoeR> I don't like to have too much moderation.
[02:49] <HazRPG> indeed
[02:49] <shauno> well, if you admit moderation is a good thing, then the statement would have to imply you also take moderation .. in moderation
[02:49] <ZoeR> I'm going to fall asleep at the keyboard here, which is never good
[02:50] <ZoeR> I did that at university once and ended up going to lectures with keyboard face
[02:50] <ZoeR> Goodnight, all
[02:50] <shauno> 'night
[02:50] <HazRPG> see, the way I look at it... I'm different, because I need to help keep the bell-arch (think that's the term) a nice shape - it terms of people who are normal and not-normal
[02:51] <shauno> always heard it called a bell curve, but that may be a yankeeism
[02:51] <HazRPG> ZoeR: well, if your off to bed... sleep well, and hopefully see ya around sometime soon :)
[02:51] <HazRPG> ah crud, she left before I sent it
[02:51] <shauno> but yes, it's only a curve if someone's willing to be the tail :)
[02:51] <HazRPG> exactly :P
[02:51] <shauno> I simply think night is overrated
[02:52] <shauno> I don't have to pull crops tomorrow.  I don't have to wake up the same time my prey does.
[02:52] <shauno> we have electricity now.  and it's awesome.
[02:52] <HazRPG> I could have sworn it was a bell-arch (or bell-arc)
[02:52] <HazRPG> shauno: interesting, you have crop? and prey?
[02:54] <shauno> I think the only real reason left for a 24hr sleep cycle, is that our parents trained us well.  and their (^n)parents before them
[02:54] <shauno> HazRPG: no.  exactly why I don't have to let the sun be a deciding factor
[02:54] <HazRPG> oh, I'm with you
[02:55] <HazRPG> yeha
[02:55] <shauno> living around the sun made sense for cavemen.
[02:55] <shauno> we have lightbulbs and stuff.
[02:55] <HazRPG> also, why no two people have the same sleeping patterns anymore
[02:55] <HazRPG> I find the sun actually hurts my eyes now
[02:55] <shauno> they had to be awake when the hunt was good.  I have to be awake when the internet's good.  except, the internet doesn't sleep
[02:56] <HazRPG> internet doesn't sleep - but it does have traffic issues
[02:56] <shauno> nah.  it's always rush hour.  somewhere.
[02:57]  * HazRPG loves it when people say they're stuck in traffic... when really they're the ones causing it - that concept amuses me
[02:57] <shauno> not always
[02:57] <shauno> spike milligan reportedly drove slowly around country lanes, to create his own tailbacks.
[02:57] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, see that's true... however your data supplier will have peak times for sending your packets to other parts of the world
[02:57] <shauno> claimed that because it was his intentional creation, it was his own work of art
[02:57] <HazRPG> and will have times when its "clearer"
[02:58] <HazRPG> shauno: interesting
[02:59] <shauno> and the $deity(/milligan) looked at what he'd created, and saw that it was good (or something)
[02:59] <HazRPG> I find driving around slow irritates me
[02:59] <shauno> I'm meh on the whole speed thing
[03:00] <shauno> a lot of it is perspective.  in a modern car you're so isolated that you need to go fast to notice you're still driving
[03:00] <shauno> the mini feels like your butt is 2" off the floor.  every single corner feels like a go-kart ride.
[03:00] <HazRPG> sounds like my old 106
[03:01] <shauno> as such, I find 30/40 perfectly acceptable, but abhor straight lines
[03:01] <HazRPG> yes I owned a pug as my first car :/
[03:01] <shauno> I've owned 2 minis.  and '86 Sport in the UK, and a '74 mini in the US
[03:02] <shauno> unless I stumble on enough cash to get something stupid, I totally plan on my 3rd car being a mini :)
[03:02] <HazRPG> shauno: nah, the reason I find speed an issue is because on the motorway when your travelling in a straight line for several hours at a time - it just feels like your getting nowhere
[03:02] <HazRPG> but on country roads, even getting to 40Mph feels fast
[03:02] <shauno> that's exactly what I mean
[03:03] <shauno> it's not slow that's the issue.  it's the lack of interaction
[03:03] <HazRPG> ah I see where your getting at
[03:03] <shauno> can you imagine 70 on a bicycle
[03:04] <shauno> pretend it's even possible, then compare to what 70 feels like when you're isolated away in your plastic cocoon
[03:04] <HazRPG> yeah, first car was a 106 because it was cheap (£90 cheap!) and survived my first year in it - until I decided I wanted something that didn't feel like I was boxed in (I get claustrophobic due to an elevator incident when I was younger)... so got myself a 206, then later got another 206 just so I could have a 5 door instead of a 3 door
[03:05] <HazRPG> (still finds the whole boot/trunk being considered as a door stupid!)
[03:05] <shauno> you can't be that claustrophobic if you don't consider the boot a 5th way out :p
[03:06] <HazRPG> mild claustrophobia
[03:06] <shauno> I can't stand big cars.  floating around in a motorized couch is dangerous
[03:06] <HazRPG> due to an being stuck in an elevator going up and down non-stop and not opening to any of the floors
[03:07] <shauno> I fell asleep in a rental on a trip to indiana.
[03:07] <shauno> 55 zoned, 80 on the cruise control, and took a lil nap until I hit the gravel trap
[03:07] <HazRPG> simply because it was a REALLY old elevator, whereby the latch on each floor stopped it, however when the latch was clicked in place and someone pressed a button on a different floor at the same time - it would move again before you had chance to push the door open
[03:08] <shauno> led me to believe cruise control is evil, straight roads are evil, and 20 hours of driving in a 24hr period is out-right idiotic
[03:08] <HazRPG> egyptians are impatient - so they'd mash the floor button until it got to them
[03:09] <HazRPG> which resulted in it going up and down constantly
[03:09] <HazRPG> it was also broken on the floor they were on too
[03:09] <shauno> so you moved to the only nation on earth that knows how to queue properly :p
[03:09] <HazRPG> wow, yeah that does sound insane
[03:10] <HazRPG> shauno: education is the reason I moved lol
[03:10] <HazRPG> shauno: also, I live in saudi - they have normal elevators there (by normal, I mean they change them when newer models get released)
[03:10] <shauno> I woke up when the wheel left the tarmac and into the drainage.  incredibly bad way to wake up
[03:11] <HazRPG> in egypt, some of those elevators have been there since the building was first created! Some are down-right ancient!
[03:11] <HazRPG> yeah I can imagine!
[03:11] <shauno> remind me to use the stairs if I ever go to egypt :)
[03:11] <HazRPG> nah, you can tell the old elevators from the new
[03:12] <HazRPG> if its one where you have to open up by pulling - stairs is your best bet ;)
[03:12] <shauno> I gotta say tho, the yanks are pretty crazy with straight roads that go on for miles.  they make the romans look like amateurs
[03:12] <HazRPG> hotels and stuff are all modern - its just the flats/apartments/whatever that you should worry about :P
[03:13] <HazRPG> heh, yeah the yanks do like their squares
[03:13] <HazRPG> I can understand why there were made like that
[03:13] <HazRPG> they*
[03:14] <HazRPG> they wanted a bit of order, and make it look good and place as much per square metre
[03:14] <shauno> I think a lot of it is simply a lack of land boundaries
[03:14] <HazRPG> however when the popularity of cars just makes it not practical
[03:14] <shauno> but things like http://goo.gl/maps/DdFj
[03:15] <shauno> 10 miles in a straight line.  I've never been down that without stopping
[03:15] <HazRPG> hmmm interesting
[03:15] <shauno> nothing but trees, just on and on and on.  messes with your head
[03:15] <HazRPG> 10 miles only?
[03:15] <HazRPG> ah, well when you put it like that
[03:15] <HazRPG> thought our motorway was bad
[03:16] <HazRPG> I can get from carlisle to preston without having to stop
[03:16] <shauno> I think that one's a 50
[03:16] <HazRPG> but only if I've been awake for 3 hours or so before doing it, ... if I've been awake say 12 hours... doing that stretch will just put me to sleep almost
[03:17] <shauno> and you can't speed in the backend of nowhere.  every backwater PD that can call the main road their juristiction, milks it for fines
[03:17] <HazRPG> carlisle -> preston = ~88 miles roughly
[03:17] <HazRPG> shauno: wow, no way!
[03:18] <HazRPG> I thought our speed cameras were bad
[03:18] <HazRPG> and the mobile speed cameras
[03:18] <HazRPG> however the law states that they must be visible and bright yellow!
[03:18] <shauno> they don't do gatsos so much
[03:18] <shauno> I don't imagine they'd last long in hick country :)
[03:19] <shauno> besides, that part of the country is a little strange.  they get enough snow that a lot of roads aren't quite that permenant
[03:19] <shauno> http://lh3.ggpht.com/_zALAMNxs8SI/StYrPMpkEBI/AAAAAAAAEIE/Lg0k14PLzK0/2009+Yooper+Vacation+076.JPG
[03:20] <HazRPG> haha
[03:20] <HazRPG> that's insane
[03:21] <HazRPG> however, I'm amused the 13938N 13962N doesn't have two parts to it too
[03:21] <shauno> they're house numbers
[03:21] <HazRPG> I figured that :P
[03:21] <HazRPG> that's why I'm surprised it doesn't have an extended part for winter
[03:21] <shauno> heh, nah, you don't pick your number
[03:22] <shauno> it's the number of yards from the start of the road, to the start of your property
[03:22] <HazRPG> really, that's... err... odd
[03:22] <HazRPG> but I suppose makes sense
[03:22] <shauno> it makes sense in the sticks.  it means addresses form directions
[03:24] <shauno> people can look at it and go "so I turn onto foo, and drive north 8 miles"
[03:24] <shauno> instead of having to crawl along reading numbers all the way there
[03:25] <HazRPG> now this is an insanely long road!
[03:25] <HazRPG> http://goo.gl/lSqev
[03:25] <shauno> it also makes it really easy to subdivide property, because each new part gets a new boundary, so a new number
[03:26] <shauno> if you have 2, 4, 6, 8, and 6 wants to subdivide .. you get 2, 4, 5.5, 6, 6.5, 8 ?
[03:26] <HazRPG> probably doesn't look like much, but read the marker at the bottom-left that shows how its scaled
[03:26] <shauno> yeah, deserts are silly :)
[03:28] <shauno> I used to love this coast road, because it was the closest thing I could find to corners :/   http://goo.gl/maps/SnIj
[03:29] <shauno> couple of nice hairpins in it too
[03:29] <shauno> not a twisty road by any means, but closest respite I could find from their grid-pattern craziness
[03:30] <HazRPG> I always felt sorry for my dad each time he had to do this drive: http://goo.gl/Ccefp
[03:31] <HazRPG> heh yeah, that looks like most motorway roads here in the UK almost
[03:32] <HazRPG> I have a feeling there's a reason why google makes can work out the two points in saudi is because of saudi law (I think)
[03:32] <HazRPG> maps*
[03:32] <HazRPG> I swear it's the auto-correct that's causing my spelling mistakes
[03:32] <HazRPG> it can't be my typing, surely :S
[03:32] <shauno> hah, it's no motorway.  it's narrow enough that you have to slow & pull in when there's a car coming the other way
[03:33] <shauno> it's a silly road that's only there because the rich people like to stick huge houses on the coast
[03:33] <HazRPG> I meant in its construct, not by its width :P
[03:34] <shauno> good lord wikipedia loves minutia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-119_(Michigan_highway)
[03:34] <HazRPG> I wonder if I can find my old house on here!
[03:37] <shauno> last one before I shut up about it ..
[03:37] <shauno> http://goo.gl/maps/X1lb
[03:37] <shauno> I like how maps tries to blend completely different pictures :)
[03:37] <shauno> (summer vs winter in one shot is neat tho)
[03:38] <HazRPG> holy cow, I thought my dad was kidding when he said that the place had been expanding, but man I can't even tell which way is up anymore!
[03:38] <HazRPG> haha, yeah that does look random
[03:39] <shauno> shows why people shouldn't leave their jetties out over winter tho.  huge weak patches in the ice around them
[03:40] <shauno> it's pretty neat when everything freezes up tho.  the bay I lived on, they cleared a road over to the main town each winter
[03:40] <shauno> so if you're brave/stupid enough, you could shortcut across the ice
[03:40] <HazRPG> heh
[03:40] <HazRPG> free ice ride to town
[03:41] <shauno> we tried to find the edge of the ice one winter, but my brother started jumping up and down making it creak, so I went back :/
[03:42] <HazRPG> ah, sod it can't find my old house
[03:43] <HazRPG> but I have found my FAVOURITE part of the city of all time
[03:43] <HazRPG> I could spend days in there without getting bored: http://goo.gl/XfCMa
[03:43] <HazRPG> hehe, your brother must have been brave :P
[03:44] <HazRPG> the road your looking for on that section is "al olaya st"
[03:44] <shauno> or stupid :)
[03:44] <HazRPG> that name amused me, because "oola" or "ula" means "first"
[03:45] <HazRPG> olaya technically means "the really first" I think
[03:45] <HazRPG> but I don't think it means that in saudi arabic
[03:45] <HazRPG> was my favourite street for one simple reason
[03:46] <HazRPG> there's a 2 mile stretch on there that's just computer shops from one side to the next
[03:46] <HazRPG> called "the computer souk"
[03:46] <HazRPG> souk = market
[03:47] <HazRPG> also, home to where my best friend lived too
[03:47] <HazRPG> he lived at the top of one of the computer shops there
[03:47] <HazRPG> during the summer, I would stay at his for 1-2 weeks at a time
[03:48] <HazRPG> and we'd just drool over all the stuff we could never buy (or begged our parents to buy it for us)
[03:48] <shauno> I appear to be missing all my photos before 2006.  a little worried :/
[03:48] <HazRPG> random
[03:48] <HazRPG> all my photos are in saudi :/
[03:49] <HazRPG> plus... I never really took photos much, I thought it was pointless back then
[03:49] <HazRPG> (even though I did own a camera that actually put a different turtle on a corner)
[03:49] <HazRPG> out of the 4 turtles of course
[03:49] <HazRPG> very high tech :P
[03:54] <HazRPG> urgh don't you just hate it when trackers have no peers :/
[03:54] <HazRPG> been trying to download this documentary for hours now
[03:58] <shauno> looks like that's going to be my job for tomorrow.  sit down 'n write a crawling to go thru 4 drives trying to find my pictures :/
[03:58] <HazRPG> heh, I have roughly 10 hard drives or more that has data
[03:59] <HazRPG> I keep meaning to go out and buy some hard drives and move the data types to each hard drive by themselves
[03:59] <HazRPG> one for music & videos
[03:59] <HazRPG> and the other for everything else
[03:59] <shauno> hopefully someone's still maintaining the -xml patch for jhead
[04:01] <shauno> for now, I think I'm gonna go grab coffee & head to bed
[04:02] <shauno> my photos always had a very awkward naming structure that makes them a pain to tidy up; I just name each file for it's own md5sum
[04:02] <shauno> there was a reason for it, many years ago.  I can't fathom what it was anymore tho.
[04:08] <shauno> man I wish lacie would hurry up with their 'thunderbolt' enclosure.  that'd make this much happier
[04:09] <HazRPG> heh, random
[04:09] <HazRPG> I can imagine you using md5sum to be able to check if the image was edited somehow
[04:10] <HazRPG> hmm
[04:10] <HazRPG> trying to find this documentary - but can't find it anywhere!
[04:10] <shauno> I think I just wanted unique filenames because I was doing something terribly ugly
[04:10] <HazRPG> http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/10/interview-with-8-bits-indie-documentarian/
[04:10] <HazRPG> also, coffee before bed? Wow caffeine really has no effect on you either :P
[04:10] <shauno> sorta
[04:10] <HazRPG> I usually have a few cups before bed
[04:10] <shauno> coffee with milk = settle down for bed :)
[04:11] <HazRPG> oh well this seems interesting too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4imzFPIRTY
[04:12]  * HazRPG goes to grab some mountain dew
[04:13] <HazRPG> is it bad that I'm hooked on the whole 8-bit era again :?
[04:14] <shauno> :)
[07:01] <knightdroid> morning
[07:01] <knightdroid> everyone ok today
[07:17] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:20] <HazRPG> woo! I think my c64 just arrived!
[07:20]  * HazRPG rushes to the door
[07:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings/
[07:20] <knightwise> morning
[07:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\/\o/
[07:22] <knightwise> a c64 ? cool beans
[07:22]  * knightwise has his one tucked away upstairs
[07:23]  * HazRPG begins to tear box apart
[07:23] <HazRPG> knightwise: I should have 2 in this box ;)
[07:23] <knightwise> cooo.  what are you going to do with them ?
[07:24] <HazRPG> well I actually only wanted the one, but the guy had listed both up on ebay under one listing... so I went for it :D
[07:25] <knightwise> nice
[07:25] <HazRPG> won it at ~£20 (with £20 p&p, so ~£40 total)
[07:25] <HazRPG> haha, aces... all here :D
[07:25] <knightwise> tape tapedrive ? floppy ?
[07:25] <HazRPG> datassette included + joystick + 6 games
[07:25] <HazRPG> only 1 power brick however
[07:26] <knightwise> niiiiiiice
[07:26] <HazRPG> and no video output cable
[07:26] <HazRPG> not in original box neither... but still awesome D
[07:26] <HazRPG> :D*
[07:27] <HazRPG> I was hoping the A/V cable I bought would have arrived first tbh :(
[07:27] <HazRPG> so that I could use it when it got here
[07:27] <HazRPG> but seems I shall have to wait a day or two more for that (could also arrive later on in the day too)
[07:27] <HazRPG> winner, all here :D
[07:28] <HazRPG> holy cow the power brick is heavy
[07:29] <HazRPG> wonder if its possible to make a smaller version of this thing
[07:29] <HazRPG> looks like I may have to get the good ol' cleaning products out too, seems to be covered in dust
[07:31] <HazRPG> now for the real test I guess - does it look like its been tampered with...
[07:33] <HazRPG> wow, did these things not have caps to cover the ports back then :S
[07:33] <HazRPG> hmm, this case has defo been taken apart before (not liking this)
[07:34] <knightwise> nope
[07:34] <knightwise> all dusty and grimy
[07:34] <knightwise> i had a plastic case to cover the keyboard
[07:35] <HazRPG> wow, these must have been a pain to type on
[07:35] <HazRPG> I don't recall my mz-721 being this bad
[07:35] <knightwise> naah it was ok
[07:36] <knightwise> lovely sound
[07:36] <HazRPG> the normal keys don't have sounds, only the spacebar does lol
[07:36] <HazRPG> I forgot springs were used for keys back then :P
[07:36] <knightwise> springy 'twing' sound
[07:38] <HazRPG> well seems I've got a c64 and a c64c
[07:38] <HazRPG> this could be interesting
[07:38] <knightwise> a c ???
[07:38] <HazRPG> if I make tunes with one, it might sound really different on the other
[07:38] <knightwise> difference ?
[07:38] <HazRPG> knightwise: yeah the c64c was a revision of it
[07:39] <HazRPG> the whole case was changed in the c64c to make it look like the c128
[07:39] <HazRPG> the SID chip was also different too
[07:39] <HazRPG> the c64 used the SID 6581, and the c64c either had the SID 8580 or the 6582
[07:39] <knightwise> aah yoi have white ones ?
[07:40] <HazRPG> one white, one brown
[07:40]  * knightwise has a beige one
[07:40] <HazRPG> although the white one is more beige then it is white
[07:41] <HazRPG> SID 8580 and 6582 are the exact same chip, they just had didn't numbers depending when they were printed
[07:41] <HazRPG> 6581 was the better chip
[07:41] <knightwise> aha
[07:41] <HazRPG> SID = Sound Interface Device
[07:41] <HazRPG> was what gave the c64 its edge as far as sound went
[07:41] <HazRPG> was hoping for 2 c64's
[07:41] <HazRPG> but oh well :)
[07:41] <HazRPG> least I can test the tunes out with both chips :)
[07:42] <HazRPG> I really don't like that the c64 was opened before
[07:43] <HazRPG> also has a missing screw
[07:43] <HazRPG> I'm hoping he didn't rip out the SID chip
[07:43] <HazRPG> would be useless for what I want to use this for without it
[07:45] <HazRPG> only one way to find out I guess :P
[07:46] <HazRPG> hmm, well the chip is still there :D
[07:47] <HazRPG> however, I have no idea what this white liquid/cream stuff is on two of the pins!
[07:47] <HazRPG> any hardware geeks about with any insight?
[08:03] <knightwise> hmm
[08:03] <knightwise> i needz to google to see if its possible to add podcasts to gpodder via the command line
[08:08] <HazRPG> well I've managed to clean out the pins, and get rid of some dust that was lying around in there
[08:08] <HazRPG> seems to be an original 1984 one too :)
[08:09] <knightwise> cool
[08:09] <knightwise> where you even born back then ?
[08:09] <HazRPG> nope, not for another 3 years xD
[08:09] <knightwise> hahah
[08:10]  * knightwise is from 74
[08:10] <HazRPG> 87
[08:10] <HazRPG> sadly :(
[08:10] <knightwise> howso ?
[08:10] <HazRPG> I was totally born in the wrong era
[08:10] <knightwise> lol
[08:10] <knightwise> me too
[08:10] <HazRPG> I would have loved to have lived through the 80's and actually remembered it
[08:11] <knightwise> hahah
[08:11] <knightwise> i have been there
[08:11] <HazRPG> I have vague memories from when I was 2-3
[08:11]  * knightwise remembers band aid
[08:11] <HazRPG> heh, you were born in the 70's but not old enough to live it the way your parents might have though ;)
[08:12] <knightwise> my parents are waaaaaay oldef
[08:12] <knightwise> r
[08:12] <HazRPG> that's my point, they'll have seen the 70's the proper way :)
[08:12] <HazRPG> much like how mine will have seen the 80's the proper way
[08:12] <HazRPG> although my dad's probably old enough to be your dad
[08:13] <knightwise> 70's  free love and lots of pubic hair
[08:13] <HazRPG> surprised he's not retired yet :/
[08:13] <HazRPG> knightwise: that's the one :P
[08:13]  * knightwise shudders
[08:13] <HazRPG> lol
[08:14] <HazRPG> not fair, I was totally born of the wrong year >_<
[08:14] <HazRPG> I owned a mz-721 though
[08:14] <knightwise> blank  whats that ?
[08:15] <HazRPG> old 70's computer my dad had
[08:15] <knightwise> cool
[08:15] <HazRPG> this puppy right here: http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-026.jpg
[08:15] <HazRPG> ironically, better built then the c64 - but lack of decent hardware inside it
[08:16] <knightwise> too bad
[08:16] <HazRPG> although it did sport its very own sound card
[08:16] <HazRPG> however, when I say sound card - its more like a system beep speaker
[08:16]  * knightwise keeps on to an old crt tv for his c64
[08:17] <HazRPG> can't believe I have a c64 in my hand, and a TV to plug this sucker into - but no A/V jack >_<
[08:18] <HazRPG> is it bad that I'm thinking about ripping the c64c out and trying to mod it into my mz-721
[08:19] <daubers> Morning
[08:19] <HazRPG> daubers: morning
[08:19] <HazRPG> man, would be a shame to do that
[08:20] <HazRPG> s/man/nah*
[08:21] <HazRPG> hmm, interesting, the bottom says "Made in England" but the chips inside say "Made in Hong Kong"
[08:24] <knightwise> cool
[08:25] <daubers> HazRPG: Chips where made in HK and the final assembly done in UK :)
[08:25] <daubers> HazRPG: I have a speccy I think I've managed to repair, but need to make up a new AV cable for it
[08:26] <HazRPG> daubers: nice :)
[08:26] <HazRPG> what was wrong with it?
[08:27] <daubers> HazRPG: burnt out resistor oddly enough
[08:30] <HazRPG> time/use will do that to older resistors though
[08:30] <HazRPG> still can't believe the back of these c64's are bare where the expansion slots are
[08:31] <HazRPG> that just seems like bad design to me
[08:35] <HazRPG> daubers: hmm, you might know!
[08:35] <HazRPG> daubers: what would the white creamy stuff be that's formed around the SID chip on the c64 I have?
[08:36] <HazRPG> or what would cause that?
[08:36] <HazRPG> I've cleaned it up as best I can, but would that mean the SID chip is nacked though?
[08:36] <DJones> Morning
[08:37] <HazRPG> DJones: howdy, and morning squire
[08:38] <screen-x> morning :)
[08:38] <HazRPG> screen-x: morning :)
[08:40] <DJones> HazRPG: Did the white stuff look as though it belonged there like some form of sealant or protection, or was more like a corrosion
[08:41] <HazRPG> well all the other chips don't have this white stuff, so one would assume its not meant to be there
[08:42] <HazRPG> however it did look like it seeped out from the actual pins itself
[08:43] <HazRPG> I actually took out the SID, and it could have started from where the chip was pressed
[08:43] <HazRPG> however I doubt it should be there
[08:43] <HazRPG> since, it was touching 2 pins - which would short it out if im not mistaken
[08:45] <HazRPG> but honestly, I haven't a clue
[08:45]  * HazRPG wished he took photos
[08:49] <screen-x> is there a kernel parameter I can use to prevent nfs filesystems from being mounted?
[08:49] <screen-x> boot is hanging on mountall, as it seems to be happening before network config :(
[08:50] <screen-x> Before I added nfs entries to fstab, the system would boot fine and configure networking correctly.
[08:51] <DJones> screen-x: Is it just a bad mount point in fstab? I've had a similar thing but boot would complete after about 5 minutes waiting
[08:52] <screen-x> DJones: The mount point is good, as mount -a worked before rebooting.
[08:53] <DJones> screen-x: Does it eventually boot despite the hanging for a while
[08:53] <screen-x> DJones: just rebooting now, I'll leave it for 10 mins and see if it gets through.
[08:56] <screen-x> [timestamp] mountall terminated with status 32
[08:56] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: boot in rescue mode, no network
[08:57] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: it still attempts nfs mounts, even in rescue mode.
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> no idea :(
[09:01] <DJones> screen-x: Did that boot in the end then apart from not mounting the nfs mounts
[09:01] <screen-x> DJones: only had 4 minutes... on the console it appears to be hung, haven't got a login prompt yet.
[09:02] <screen-x> interestingly, I can ping the machine (so networking must be up) but can ssh in (sshd is installed..) nmap shows only port 111 as open.
[09:02] <screen-x> s/can ssh/can't ssh/
[09:03] <DJones> screen-x: Doesn't sound good, I've always found that it mine would eventually boot once the nfs attempts timed out
[09:03] <screen-x> I'll give it a few more mins.
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: init=/bin/bash :)
[09:04] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: good thinking.
[09:06] <DJones> screen-x: Going back to the original question http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt lists "NFS - Appropriate NFS support is enabled." Don't nkow if that will help
[09:07] <screen-x> 10 minutes is up, no bootage. Going to try init=/bin/bash
[09:08] <screen-x> these problems must have been really tiedous before ipmi and irc!
[09:11] <screen-x> hmm init=/bin/bash didn't seem to have any effect :(
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: strange.. it should have started bash instead of init.. giving you POWARR
[09:12] <DJones> Sounds like a livecd is called for
[09:13] <screen-x> DJones: live cd is complicated, as it doesnt include ifenslave and vconfig (needed for networking) or lvm2 (needed to mount disks..)
[09:13] <DJones> Ouch
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: alternate CD/custom remaster?
[09:14] <screen-x> ooh yes, the alternate cd does have lvm, I wonder if it has the networking utils.
[09:14] <mungojerry> wow, it was busy in here last night..usually there's about 600-700 lines missed when i leave pidgin on overnight in this channel...last night 1200
[09:15] <screen-x> should I use 'single' in conjunction with init=/bin/bash? or does single have no effect when init isnt used?
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: it shouldn't
[09:15] <screen-x> just realised I was specifying init=/bin/bash in the wrong place..
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: +have an effect.. maybe in initrd though
[09:16] <screen-x> \o/ prompt
[09:20] <daubers> HazRPG: I'd hate to think...
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's condensed magic smoke
[09:20] <HazRPG> daubers: ?
[09:20] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ???
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that, or you're having WAY too much fun with your SID chips
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 09:35 < HazRPG> daubers: what would the white creamy stuff be that's formed  around the SID chip on the c64 I have?
[09:21] <mungojerry> HazRPG: does it look like the stuff where capacitors blow?
[09:21] <HazRPG> mungojerry: I don't even know what that would look like :/
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: gooey
[09:21] <daubers> HazRPG: Where have you been storing the c64?
[09:21] <mungojerry> caked on crusty white stuff
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> or crusty, yes
[09:22] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, I wish - I don't have an A/V cable yet (apparently it was sent 19 hrs ago though)
[09:22] <HazRPG> mungojerry: ah, much like what you'd see on a battery!
[09:22] <HazRPG> mungojerry: then no
[09:22] <HazRPG> mungojerry: was still moist, and creamy...
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> .. ew
[09:22] <mungojerry> this is so wrong
[09:22] <HazRPG> looks like, erm... cream!
[09:23] <mungojerry> c64 love
[09:23] <HazRPG> dirty minded so and so's!
[09:23] <screen-x> yay, edited fstab from initrd prompt, rebooted and has come up fine.
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: too much love if you ash me 8-)
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> ask*
[09:23]  * HazRPG rolls eyes
[09:23]  * DJones thinks ewww
[09:23] <screen-x> now to work out why nfs mounts are causing the boot to fail.
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: because nfs mouns come up before vconfig does its magic?
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: firewall issues?
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: portmapper issues?
[09:24] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: no firewall yet
[09:24] <daubers> screen-x: nfs server down?
[09:24] <daubers> networking issue?
[09:24] <screen-x> daubers: no server is ok
[09:24] <mungojerry> could be glue
[09:24] <screen-x> networking issue is likely, the actually error given is name resolution failed.
[09:24] <mungojerry> how does it taste HazRPG
[09:25] <screen-x> but I can ping, so networking does come up eventually, but it sounds like it tries to mount before that.
[09:25] <HazRPG> mungojerry: errmmmm... I wasn't going to lick it now was I! :P
[09:26] <HazRPG> however, I was brave and wiped a bit with my finger - and it wasn't sticky
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Time to get out your chemistry kit, lab coat and goggles
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: FOR SCIENCE
[09:26] <HazRPG> xD
[09:27] <livingdaylight> how much does  virtualbox drain ubuntu resources?
[09:28] <livingdaylight> felt my system get distinctly sluggish
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> depends on the guest :)
[09:28] <livingdaylight> w7
[09:29] <screen-x> livingdaylight: virtualbox can be pretty fast, if you have hardware virtualisation and enough ram to not swap.
[09:29] <livingdaylight> hardware virtualization?
[09:30] <mungojerry> HazRPG: without seeing a picture, i have a feeling that it's some epoxy or glue that they used to put on the boards, it may have altered a bit over 30 years and become more liquid
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes.. take a picture! mungojerry: great idea :)
[09:30] <livingdaylight> I have a 64x system but run ubuntu 32bit... Can I still run win7-64x in VB?
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: why not use a 64-bit Ubuntu?
[09:31] <screen-x> livingdaylight: intel vt or amd-v
[09:31] <livingdaylight> screen-x, and does one ideally share ram 50/50 or is 1gb sufficient for w7 on vb?
[09:32] <screen-x> livingdaylight: you can run 64bit guests on a 32bit host if you have hardware virtualisation support as mentioned above.
[09:33] <livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, don't remember, it was a few releases ago, when it was deemed 32-bit was easier for somethings which 64x hadn't caught up to yet (optimally - flash?) And I've just been upgrading I don't know how many releases in a row now, so, havnent reinstalled yet. Maybe next time
[09:33] <screen-x> livingdaylight: I dont know how much ram win7 needs to be happy, as I haven't used it.
[09:33] <livingdaylight> screen-x, thx. I don't know whether I have intel vt or not
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: check /proc/cpuinfo
[09:34] <screen-x> !info cpu-checker
[09:35] <livingdaylight> command not found... do I need to install cpu-checker?
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: no, you run "kvm-ok" :)
[09:35] <screen-x> that contains kvm-ok which tells you if you have hardware virtualisation.
[09:35] <mungojerry> guys, software-center is still core dumping on natty, can anyone confirm?
[09:36] <livingdaylight> I have cpu-checker installed, but /proc/cpuinfo says command not found
[09:36] <screen-x> livingdaylight: run kvm-ok
[09:37] <livingdaylight> run kvm?
[09:37] <screen-x> run "kvm-ok"
[09:37] <livingdaylight> KVM acceleration can NOT be used
[09:38] <screen-x> ahh :(
[09:38] <livingdaylight> is that the clue?
[09:38] <livingdaylight> :(
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> you might be able to enable it in the BIOS
[09:39] <livingdaylight> good idea, I'll have a peek
[09:39] <livingdaylight> peak?
[09:42] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
[09:44] <danfish> \o/ czajkowski
[09:46] <danfish> does anyone know an easy recipe to make a python script into an upstart job?
[09:50] <HazRPG> czajkowski: howdy!
[09:50] <czajkowski> gonna be a sleepy slow day
[09:50] <DJones> czajkowski: WAKE UP !
[09:51] <HazRPG> mungojerry, MartijnVdS... you would say after I'd closed the thing off already and wiped most of it off :P
[09:51] <czajkowski> so cant do that today
[09:51]  * daubers passes czajkowski the coffee
[09:51] <HazRPG> hang on, I'll get my 8MP camera and see if I can get a decent photo of what remains on it
[09:52] <czajkowski> TEA!
[09:52] <czajkowski> already had 3 mugs of the stuff
[09:54]  * mungojerry wishes he liked tea
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: practice, practice, practice
[09:55] <mungojerry> i tried :(
[09:55] <mungojerry> drank it until i was about 11..
[09:55] <mungojerry> it makes me feel sick to think of the smell, or the taste
[09:56]  * DJones points czajkowski at http://www.energyfiend.com/2007/01/meth-coffee-super-caffeinated-coffee
[09:57] <czajkowski> popey: http://www.nymr.co.uk/special-events/mini-events/volunteer-recruitment-open-day/
[09:58] <daubers> mungojerry: Maybe you where doing it wrong
[09:58] <daubers> mungojerry: Coming to oggcamp?
[09:58] <mungojerry> where is it ?
[09:59] <daubers> mungojerry: Hampshire somewhere (not been fully announced yet)
[09:59] <daubers> mungojerry: Best to take it as "Somewhere nearish popey" as that's the full extent that's been released :)
[10:00] <AlanBell> which isn't Hampshire :)
[10:00] <screen-x> have dates been announced?
[10:00] <daubers> Thought Frn was hampshire? Is it herts?
[10:01] <mungojerry> daubers: it's nearer than liverpool, so maybe.!
[10:01] <AlanBell> I believe Popey lives in Surrey
[10:01]  * mungojerry wishes it was herts instead :P
[10:01]  * popey does not
[10:01] <AlanBell> really?
[10:02] <popey> really.
[10:02]  * AlanBell checks the border location
[10:02]  * TheOpenSourcerer thought the Price of Wales was in Hants.
[10:02] <popey> I can see Surrey from my desk
[10:02] <popey> It is
[10:02]  * czajkowski is in Surrey
[10:02] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: we're having a BBQ in Sirius on March 30th for document freedom day.
[10:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am in Surrey and about 0.5m from Hampshire.
[10:02] <daubers> It's that area where everything is close enough to be each other really :)
[10:03]  * Tommeh slaps czajkowski with a Filbert
[10:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> There is a pub near me that has one door in Surrey and one in Hampshire so I have been told.
[10:03]  * TheOpenSourcerer looks at his calendar.
[10:03] <czajkowski> Tommeh: oi!
[10:03] <czajkowski> who the hell is tommeh
[10:04] <czajkowski> go poke Filbert elsewhere
[10:04] <Tommeh> Arf
[10:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't he one half of cannon & ball?
[10:04] <Tommeh> * Tommeh slaps Filbert with mzje-
[10:04] <Tommeh> ^ Done, czajkowski
[10:05] <JamesTait> 'Allo 'allo!
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> ...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jRjSb3408I
[10:05] <mungojerry> my dad lives in farnham and in-laws in surrey so could be a nice trip
[10:05] <AlanBell> farnham ftw
[10:06] <mungojerry> had my wedding reception at uni of surrey
[10:07] <daubers> mungojerry: If you do, I'll bring some proper tea
[10:08]  * mungojerry likes peppermint tea
[10:08]  * screen-x has climbed the giant golf ball at the surrey uni
[10:08]  * mungojerry worries that if he drank real tea, he might be the first person to spew at oggcamp
[10:09] <mungojerry> screen-x: it doesn't look safe
[10:09] <mungojerry> http://www.flickr.com/photos/benporter86/5224157537/
[10:10] <mungojerry> has a question about life...as usual
[10:11] <mungojerry> is it safe to sleep with your head under the covers? i wonder if i get enough oxygen at night
[10:11] <screen-x> haha
[10:11] <AlanBell> drinking Pimms at the last oggcamp http://www.flickr.com/photos/webmink/4574060621/
[10:11] <screen-x> cold house mungojerry?
[10:11] <screen-x> \o/
[10:12] <mungojerry> screen-x: dunno, i think it's light and comfort related.
[10:12] <AlanBell> apparently videos from the last oggcamp will be available "soon"
[10:12] <mungojerry> my dog does the same in her bed
[10:12] <screen-x> mungojerry: maybe use a snorkel?
[10:12] <mungojerry> surely the CO2 concentration must be pretty high
[10:15] <popey> indeed AlanBell  :(
[10:16] <AlanBell> popey: I had a recent update on this
[10:16] <AlanBell> something to do with slide timings
[10:16] <AlanBell> all seems overcomplicated to me
[10:17] <AlanBell> point camera, download file from camera, stick on youtube/blip.tv, done.
[10:19] <popey> +1
[10:19] <popey> thats what I did at UDS
[10:19] <AlanBell> yeah, that worked
[10:20] <AlanBell> I really wanted my oggcamp presentation up and available before the election
[10:20] <screen-x> didnt daubers put some up?
[10:20] <popey> he did
[10:21] <daubers> I did!
[10:21] <daubers> Don't have a video camera anymore though :(
[10:21] <daubers> Might try and borrow one or two for next oggcamp
[10:22] <popey> i have one :)
[10:22] <daubers> \o/
[10:22] <daubers> If I can borrow a mini NAS from work I'll try and setup an automated blip upload
[10:22] <popey> that would be neat
[10:22] <daubers> dump files in folder, every 10 minutes it uploads to blip and moves the files out
[10:22] <popey> someone still needs to maintain the meta data at blip
[10:23] <daubers> Yeah, that shouldn't be too arduous though
[10:23] <daubers> Might have a nose through their api
[10:23] <AlanBell> I have a camera, but it is mini-dv and firewire and I don't have a computer with firewire any more
[10:24] <daubers> That I might be able to solve also....
[10:25] <daubers> Though it may mean using non-free systems :-s
[10:25]  * popey has just setup http://oggcamp.blip.tv/
[10:25] <popey> :D
[10:25] <HazRPG> mungojerry: you still about dude?
[10:25] <HazRPG> currently uploading snaps
[10:26]  * daubers ponders moving his mail server back to google apps
[10:26] <daubers> Horro of dealing iwht postfix update recently has made me really consider it again
[10:27] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/oggcamp also now setup
[10:28] <daubers> \o/
[10:28] <daubers> youtube can also have it's uploads automated iirc
[10:29] <HazRPG> mungojerry: https://picasaweb.google.com/hazrpg/C64 pick your fancy out of the crop
[10:29] <daubers> \o/ http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/1.0/developers_guide_python.html
[10:29] <HazRPG> mungojerry: best I could do
[10:29] <HazRPG> specially considering I wiped as much as I could earlier
[10:30] <HazRPG> mungojerry: 2nd and 3rd picture is basically a white stain similar to that found on the chip - although that one is dry
[10:31] <HazRPG> the white rig at the top of the chip appears to still be wet, but I thought that shouldn't cause any problems - my main concern was the pins
[10:39] <screen-x> "mount.nfs4 DNS resolution failed for 10.187.129.101"
[10:39] <screen-x> O RLY?
[10:39] <mungojerry> HazRPG: i'm back...
[10:40] <mungojerry> lol i found an amiga that had been thrown out by neighbours
[10:40] <mungojerry> plus LOADS of games
[10:41] <mungojerry> i took it into the house...mrs mungojerry gave me one of those looks...
[10:41] <screen-x> haha
[10:41] <mungojerry> i looked at my existing pile of dead and old tech gadgets and took it back outside
[10:41] <mungojerry> still kept the mouse for some reason
[10:41] <mungojerry> and the expansion pack
[10:42] <mungojerry> HazRPG: does the C64 work?
[10:46] <HazRPG> mungojerry: unsure...
[10:46] <HazRPG> mungojerry: still waiting on my A/V cables
[10:47] <HazRPG> mungojerry: :o!!!
[10:47] <HazRPG> you did what!
[10:47] <HazRPG> :(
[10:47] <HazRPG> I would have taken it off you!
[10:47]  * HazRPG hordes old hardware too
[10:47] <mungojerry> i had no attic at the time
[10:48] <mungojerry> AKA man-space
[10:48] <mungojerry> my wife never goes up there
[10:48] <dwatkins> mungojerry: where do you live, I'll drive over an dpick it up ;)
[10:48] <mungojerry> dwatkins: next time i find stuff like that i'll come here :)
[10:48] <mungojerry> i also have a broken ibook g4
[10:48] <czajkowski> daubers: I have an envelpe here for you but clearly the sticky I left on it has vanished with you address.
[10:48] <mungojerry> for spares or repair
[10:49] <dwatkins> mungojerry: I'm sure you'll have plenty of people interested, yeah - our local freecycle sometimes has old hardware, it's gone in a flash
[10:49] <mungojerry> using freecycle is about as pleasurable as using our company accounting software
[10:49] <mungojerry> if anyone here has a g4 they need spares for ..
[10:49] <screen-x> mungojerry: I only use it for getting rid of stuff now..
[10:50] <screen-x> mungojerry: I have a powerbook g4 that needs a new screen, but I think they were different size from the ibooks.
[10:50] <HazRPG> freecycle?
[10:50] <HazRPG> I'm guessing that's the recycle centres :P
[10:50] <screen-x> HazRPG: mailing lists for redistributing junk
[10:50] <mungojerry> HazRPG: it's a community driven website to get rid of and find 2nd hand gear
[10:51] <mungojerry> although they forked because of power struggles and freegle became the better one
[10:51] <knightwise> anyone have any good suggestions for linux podcasts ?
[10:51] <knightwise> i do uupc las going linux and the outlaws
[10:52] <mungojerry> why do free* use yahho groups :(
[10:52] <directhex> habit
[10:53] <HazRPG> mungojerry, screen-x: nice!
[10:53]  * HazRPG goes to google to find it
[10:53] <daubers> popey: The youtube api lets you add meta stuff automagically, so if we had somewhere we could upload the slides too, we could automagically add a link to the slides too
[10:53] <popey> neat!
[10:53] <HazRPG> this one: http://www.uk.freecycle.org/ <=
[10:54] <daubers> popey: And to really push the boat out, you can then tweet the link to the uploaded vid and slides :)
[10:54] <popey> that would also rock!
[10:55] <daubers> I'll have a play this evening and see what I can come up with
[10:57] <screen-x> daubers++
[10:58]  * mungojerry values free stuff more than paid stuff
[11:05] <jgjones> was told "want a computer for free?"
[11:06] <dogmatic69> is it possible to run ruby and php on the same server?
[11:06] <jgjones> sure I'll have it. Hmm and I get a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4...and I was expecting something a wee bit newer
[11:06] <awilkins> dogmatic69, Yes
[11:06] <dogmatic69> yey
[11:06] <bigcalm> Hello peoples :)
[11:06] <dogmatic69> now to figure out why its not working
[11:07] <awilkins> jgjones, Isn't a TRS-80 quite the collectors item on ebay now
[11:07] <jgjones> Hmm....will have a look...I have no idea if it works.
[11:08] <jgjones> It must be awesome...it comes with not one but TWO floppy disk drives.
[11:08] <awilkins> jgjones, The model 3 is going for over £100
[11:10] <awilkins> jgjones, Heh, just the PSU unit is going for nearly £50 for the model 4
[11:10] <jgjones> awilkins, hmm interesting...at moment I've just put it in my office as a display
[11:10] <awilkins> jgjones, The ADVERT for the model 4 is selling for just under £5   :-)
[11:10] <jgjones> just saw that :)
[11:11] <davmor2> morning all
[11:11] <jgjones> awilkins, seriously...what do they use it for?!
[11:12] <jgjones> And I was thinking I might try a case mod for it, removing the CRT and replace with a small LCD for status display etc.
[11:13] <awilkins> I think it's just a collector thing... some people buy a Cray-1 just to be an unusual piece of furniture...
[11:14]  * awilkins for the first time wishes that Java was a dynamic language
[11:15] <awilkins> Grr. Have to call "getContent()" on a whole host of types that came out of a type generator but don't implement a common interface ; can't change them because the code will get overwritten by the generator... annoying
[11:15] <jgjones> Hmm Cray-1 as chairs...I now know how to get around my wife "it's not a computer, it's a cutting-edge arty furniture....whatever gave you the idea that it's a computer??"
[11:20] <tugrik> the answer might be "furniture isn't usually plugged in"?
[11:20] <mungojerry> massage chair :P
[11:20] <tugrik> fair point :)
[11:21] <jgjones> Heated seats?
[11:21] <mungojerry> http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/hacker-creates-110th-scale-cray-1-supercomputer-20100830/
[11:22] <mungojerry> cray-1 looks comfy
[11:22] <mungojerry> assuming they are cushioned seating around the edge?
[11:23] <jgjones> It look cushioned, but if I recall, the "seats" are the cooling units and the C shape was picked to be the most efficient design for speed (shorter wires or whatever)
[11:24] <directhex> more supercomputers should also be furniture
[11:25] <screen-x> directhex: clouds are great, but they are tricky to sit on.
[11:25] <mungojerry> unless you have a harp
[11:25] <mungojerry> and wings
[11:26] <bigcalm> It doesn't look that expensive to mock up full scale. How many MIPS did the original Cray have? I doubt you'd have to put many machines inside to match it
[11:26] <jgjones> yeah - "seats" are cooling system and C shape for shorter wires etc (it was liquid cooled) https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cray-1#Description
[11:27] <screen-x> thing that strikes me about the cray-1 is how small it is
[11:27]  * davmor2 hugs czajkowski for a change, just to say welcome home,  then prods her to remind her that it's me :)
[11:27] <jgjones> screen-x, small? the cray-1 weighed 5.5 ton! :)
[11:29] <screen-x> jgjones: but compare to bluegene-l
[11:29] <popey> http://www.saveie6.com/
[11:29] <popey> :)
[11:30] <jgjones> screen-x, true, but then, Cray-1 look cooler and is a "single tower" ;-)
[11:31] <bigcalm> popey: "Get the W3C standard changed to fit IE6" best line of the day
[11:31]  * dwatkins sat on a Cray 1 many years ago when it was actually new
[11:32]  * czajkowski falls asleep on davmor2 
[11:33]  * daubers ponders whether to have an extravagent lunch or not
[11:33] <mungojerry> :( dell's premier site allows me to change abolsutely any option on a pc except for the removal of windows tax
[11:34] <daubers> mungojerry: You have to ring them for that
[11:34] <mungojerry> sucks
[11:34] <davmor2> czajkowski: Do you really think your safe doing that when I have hair clippers in reach :P
[11:35]  * czajkowski pouts 
[11:35] <czajkowski> am tired lemmie lone meanie
[11:35] <popey> MORNING!
[11:35] <popey> I am going out for beer tonight, so expect incoherence.
[11:36] <bigcalm> Bah, humbug
[11:36] <czajkowski> and this differs from other days popey  :p
[11:36]  * czajkowski is tempted to go beering tonight 
[11:36] <bigcalm> popey: before or after?
[11:36] <popey> wakka wakka wakka
[11:36] <popey> comedy gold
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> uh oh
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> colleagues discovering minecrack
[11:38] <mungojerry> surely minecraft can't be more fun than Donkey kong returns :P
[11:43] <directhex> i don't know if it's fun full stop. but it's quite compelling
[11:44]  * czajkowski fronws at the pdf 
[11:44] <czajkowski> att images to the .odt version, save to pdf images there, hit print no images :(
[11:44] <czajkowski> what am I doing wrong ?
[11:44] <DJones> czajkowski: If you're this tired now, going beering tonight isn't likely to help you feel less sleepy tomorrow
[11:45] <czajkowski> DJones: while that is excellent logic, I feel the need for beer now, by 5pm though I may be curled up in a ball asleep
[11:49] <DJones> czajkowski: Heh, sleep wins over beer
[11:49] <czajkowski> depends how well my to do list shrinks
[11:49] <czajkowski> lack of shrinking may result in beer
[11:49] <czajkowski> getting to do list done results in beer ;)
[11:50]  * DJones adds a last entry on czajkowski's to do list "Drink beer or multiple of same"
[11:51] <HazRPG> winner!
[11:51] <HazRPG> my A/V cable just arrived!
[11:51] <HazRPG> seems it was on the later delivery :)
[11:53] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[11:55] <awilkins> Not for long
[11:55] <bigcalm> Ug
[11:57] <screen-x> I have a postscript file, I print it from 10.04, comes out fine. Print exactly the same file to the same printer from an 8.04 machine and only the header appears :(
[11:57] <awilkins> I take it this isn't a PS printer
[11:58] <screen-x> awilkins: it is a postscript printer
[11:58] <screen-x> laserjet cp4005
[11:59] <awilkins> screen-x, Shouldn't the printer have the responsibility for parsing postscript then?
[11:59] <screen-x> awilkins: probably. I think cups maybe mangling it though. Both machines are using postscript drivers (there is also a pcl option)
[12:00] <screen-x> I should ftp the file to the printer and see which version I get..
[12:01] <awilkins> Aye, can you just cat the file to the device and see what happens :-)
[12:01] <awilkins> (60 reams of paper later, screen-x takes out a hit on me)
[12:02] <screen-x> hmm, this being a network printer, I would use nc for that?
[12:02]  * screen-x tries it
[12:02] <awilkins> At this point we depart the shores of my knowledge ... I've not had a lot of use for printers recently. Most of my deep technical experience is with dot-matrix models from the 80s
[12:03] <awilkins> And Zebra label printers
[12:03]  * screen-x dislikes printers and is amazed that they work at all. 
[12:03] <awilkins> I have a Samsung colour laser that I'm happy with and leave it at that
[12:04] <awilkins> Although for some reason, I have to download some drivers from sourceforge which appear identical to the packaged ones but have better colour balance
[12:04] <screen-x> nc worked :)
[12:04] <awilkins> As in - I've unpacked the tar files and compared them and only dates in comments seem to be different for my model . Odd
[12:04] <screen-x> that is odd
[12:05] <awilkins> There is a step in the downloaded ones that wgets some colour profiles, maybe that's the difference
[12:06] <awilkins> It does seem a bit shonky - the author exhorts you for donations (which is fine) but I think there must be some kind of obfuscation going on because the Ubuntu packages should work just the same.
[12:06] <screen-x> awilkins: package the colour profile :)
[12:06] <awilkins> It had occurreed to me ; I didn't have the time to identify the differences though
[12:07] <popey> hahah yeah
[12:07] <awilkins> And the whole PPA thing is still a bit hard work for me
[12:07] <awilkins> Maybe that "Ground Control" app would help
[12:08] <awilkins> Just saw it in an Ubuntu book... our sysadmin manager decided we needed some documentation since we're installing Ubuntu on servers now...
[12:08] <awilkins> (only one so far)
[12:15]  * mungojerry is pondering over a Intel E7500 (3M Cache, 2.93 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB) or a E8400 (6M Cache, 3.00 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB)  for £55 extra
[12:15] <Tommeh> £55 extra on what?
[12:15] <Tommeh> Or over which CPU, I mean.
[12:16] <mungojerry> paying extra £55 for the better CPU
[12:16] <dogmatic69> +3M cache is nice, and faster fsb
[12:16] <Tommeh> Oh I see what you've written now.
[12:16] <mungojerry> needs to last 4 years
[12:16] <Tommeh> I wouldn't buy either
[12:16] <dogmatic69> mungojerry: why not i3 / i5
[12:16] <Tommeh> They're both well out of date.
[12:16] <dogmatic69> exactly
[12:16] <dogmatic69> at least an i3 you are on the newest socket
[12:17] <Tommeh> Both S775 CPUs, you'd want at least S1156 or (even better) S1155
[12:17] <mungojerry> its for work PCs..i want PC+screen under £500 inc vat
[12:17] <Tommeh> I dunno if Dell have gotten around to the S1155 (Sandybridge) stuff yet.
[12:17] <BigRedS> Gah. Gnome Power Manager makes no sense to me
[12:18] <dogmatic69> mungojerry: i got a i3 + 4gig ram and 2x 23" for 700ish, just one screen would take it to about 500
[12:18] <mungojerry> i* isn't on the list
[12:18] <dogmatic69> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-226-OK
[12:19] <dogmatic69> that + 23" for 150 is your £500
[12:19] <mungojerry> would be nice for my house :)
[12:20] <Tommeh> mungojerry: I've noticed they don't have much in the i* stuff
[12:20] <Tommeh> But if you go to the Vostro desktops, they do have i5's
[12:20] <Tommeh> Instead of Optiplex
[12:20] <mungojerry> Tommeh: yeah, generally i get Optiplex 380s
[12:20] <dogmatic69> that i3 is faster than my Q8200
[12:20] <Tommeh> Aye, they seem to be stuck in 2009
[12:20] <mungojerry> they offer the Q8400 too
[12:20]  * Tommeh has a 360 under my desk
[12:20] <directhex> ocuk :/
[12:20] <Tommeh> I guarantee they'll be replaced soon :)
[12:20] <mungojerry> Tommeh: they never go wrong and run linux well
[12:21] <awilkins> I think the problem with these colour profiles is they get downloaded and extracted from the printer firmwares
[12:21] <Tommeh> Well yeah, but.. You're a fool to buy dying tech brand new :p
[12:21] <mungojerry> i still have a inspiron 530 under my desk and it still feels new
[12:21] <dogmatic69> Q8* are about 2 / 3 years old
[12:21] <directhex> my i7 920 still feels fresh
[12:21] <directhex> but that's because it's teh awesomes
[12:21]  * awilkins has a core2 quad
[12:22] <dogmatic69> i9 + 16gig or ram would be nice :)
[12:22] <mungojerry> some would argue that brand new tech is too £££
[12:22] <dogmatic69> with ssd obviously
[12:22] <awilkins> Nicely refreshed by shoving a new 560i graphics card in it
[12:22] <Baikonur> i've got some amd x2 and it feels like amiga
[12:22] <mungojerry> we have HPC clusters for proper work
[12:22] <dogmatic69> lol
[12:22] <directhex> mungojerry, you need a multi-core desktop, and buckets of ram, to run mpich to test apps. duh.
[12:23] <Tommeh> mungojerry: aren't the vostros a stage cheaper than the opitplex's anyway?
[12:24] <awilkins> Developers need more-awesome-than-average hardware now
[12:24] <directhex> i need all these mhz for work.
[12:24] <directhex> it's true.
[12:24] <awilkins> I had to shove secretly put 4GB extra RAM in my work desktop because ICT won't provide it because they don't provide a 64-bit OS
[12:25] <mungojerry> most of the staff are writing latex docs , viewing pdfs and browsing the web
[12:25] <mungojerry> running the odd python/C prog..
[12:26] <mungojerry> Tommeh: vostros are coming in at £830 !
[12:26] <mungojerry> optiplex £409
[12:26] <mungojerry> must be my academic discount working better on the opti
[12:28] <mungojerry> some staff are still using 5 yr old PCs just fine..running linux
[12:28] <mungojerry> the windows users (thankfully very few of those) want new PC every 2 yrs
[12:28] <Tommeh> lol
[12:28] <Tommeh> Ah well, I can't argue with what you're paying for it.
[12:28] <awilkins> I think this is because the crapware gets hungrier all the time
[12:28] <Tommeh> Do you ever take those premier login prices and send them to your account manager?
[12:28] <Tommeh> Quite often we find they can push further.
[12:28] <mungojerry> mcafee shags your PC and doesn;'t even catch virii
[12:29] <mungojerry> Tommeh: i will be doing that for the removal of win tax
[12:29] <Tommeh> ah-ha
[12:29] <awilkins> Heh, we "traded up" from Symantec (4% CPU use) to McAffee (40% CPU use)
[12:29] <Tommeh> Yeah, good idea.
[12:29] <mungojerry> awilkins: and none of them catch stuff except malwarebytes!
[12:29] <awilkins> I have some publishing processes that take 1:30 on Linux and 8:30 on Windows (same hardware) now
[12:30] <awilkins> Add to that the process which audits your PC every day at around 10:00
[12:30] <mungojerry> sweet
[12:30] <mungojerry> thats prodcutivity for you
[12:31] <screen-x> awilkins: so you have to take your extra 4GB ram out at 09:45?
[12:31] <awilkins> Thrashes every path in the filesystem, goes through all the archives, then spends 30 minutes of 100% CPU time zipping the list of paths up for ICT to ignore....
[12:31] <mungojerry> awilkins: what type of company u work for?
[12:31] <awilkins> screen-x, I don't think they've noticed, TBH. I only boot it to Windows at 0900 on Mondays for the DHCP lease. Then it gets shut down and runs Linux the rest of the week.
[12:31] <daubers> awilkins: But the primary job of any pc is to run a virus scanner so it doens't get virus's!!
[12:32] <screen-x> awilkins: you can't get a dhcp lease from linux?
[12:32]  * awilkins works for the larges employer in UK and third largest in world and that should be enough for anyone to infer.
[12:32] <awilkins> screen-x, It's authenticated somehow
[12:32] <screen-x> sounds like NHS..
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: US Military?
[12:32] <Tommeh> * awilkins works for the larges employer in U
[12:32] <Tommeh> *UK
[12:33] <Tommeh> So probably not the US Military
[12:33] <DJones> Tommeh: Spies :)
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> Tommeh: well, you don't know how many undercover operatives they have, do you? ;)
[12:33] <screen-x> 74% of uk citizens are employed by the us military
[12:33] <mungojerry> any company that inserts a C into IT can be relied upon to porivde poor IT service
[12:33] <Tommeh> lol
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: [FACT]
[12:33] <daubers> screen-x: Yup, spying on th other 26% :)
[12:34] <Tommeh> Interestingly enough though the MOD is the 2nd-largest employer in the UK
[12:34] <Tommeh> Largest being the NHS (your poor sod, awilkins)
[12:34]  * daubers always takes those statistics iwht a pinch of salt
[12:34] <daubers> No indication if it's directly employed or indirectly employed
[12:34] <Tommeh> Both would be pretty bad.
[12:36] <mungojerry> the 20% VAT rate really bites into my budget :(
[12:36] <BigRedS> It's not really surprising...
[12:37] <Tommeh> mungojerry: why does your budget even include the VAT rate?
[12:37] <Tommeh> Surely that money is claimed back at the end of the year so .. Isn't a problem?
[12:39] <mungojerry> try explaining that to finance director
[12:39] <DJones> mungojerry: Time to get a new finance director
[12:39] <mungojerry> i'm not complaining while i still have control over spending
[12:44] <mungojerry> or still have a job :P
[12:44] <directhex> mungojerry, buy clusters, blame medical research so they're vat-exempt
[12:44] <directhex> you clearly need a cluster of laptops & desktops
[12:45] <mungojerry> i need a cluster of printers that never fails or jams
[12:45] <bigcalm> No such device exists
[12:46] <daubers> mungojerry: A cluster of cheap labourers in some far off country with biro's?
[12:46] <mungojerry> my budget has a loophole that i have to purchase individual toners , but if everyone prints to one of 3 massive printers, that comes from a different budget
[12:47] <mungojerry> if everyone prints to the big printers, i spend more on IT
[12:47] <mungojerry> but they always jam and clog
[12:47] <directhex> we bought a new big-ish printer for the office
[12:47] <directhex> big for us
[12:49] <screen-x> we have xerox phaser, and when you lift the lid, loads of very thing looking metal bits do a little dance. I'm convinced I'm going to snap/bend something everytime I have to open it.
[12:49] <screen-x> s/thing/thin/
[12:49] <awilkins> I have issues with people printing stuff out to review it
[12:50] <awilkins> I purposely avoided getting a printer card so I can't print things
[12:50] <daubers> awilkins: Issue everyone with a tablet and bin the printers
[12:50] <awilkins> daubers, There was that thought... but I bet the budget for printer consumables comes out of a different pocket to the budget for ereaders
[12:51] <mungojerry> i spend the same on desktop PCs per year that i do on toner
[12:51] <awilkins> And they'd still want to apply markup with pens
[12:51] <daubers> awilkins: Thats easy to resolve, get a big stick and beat the finance controller with it until they see sense
[12:51] <directhex> big heavy kyocera for the office
[12:51] <awilkins> daubers, If I had to fight my way to the finance controller you could set up a camera and remake Kill Bill
[12:51] <daubers> heh
[12:52]  * daubers is waiting for the webos tablet before deciding whether or not tablets have a future
[12:52] <daubers> In my office anyway
[12:52] <mungojerry> grr any thunderbird users know how to forward an html email as html, when plain text is your usual default? don't wanna have to go through all the menus to turn on html and then go and turn it off
[12:53] <awilkins> shift-foward?
[12:53] <awilkins> (I think it's hold a modifier key and push the button... shift may be it)
[12:53] <mungojerry> awilkins: woo, it does something!
[12:53] <mungojerry> i think you've got it !
[12:53] <mungojerry> thanks
[12:54] <mungojerry> saved me a cumulative 10 mins per week
[12:54] <awilkins> I too find that damned annoying
[12:54] <awilkins> Alas, I have to use Outlook now
[12:54] <mungojerry> heh
[12:54] <mungojerry> tb3 is nice
[12:55] <awilkins> I like tb3 less because it doesn't handle gmail right
[12:55] <awilkins> It doesn't have a label feature - just folders. So it downloads your mail repeatedly and wastes disk space, and returns multiple hits to most searches when you want one
[12:56] <BigRedS> awilkins: that's exactly what I dislike Gmail for. It doesn't have a folder feature, just labels :)
[12:56] <awilkins> Combined with being forced to use Outlook to access NHS email, that's ushered TB off my computers in favour of the gmail web interface
[12:56] <BigRedS> I am generally annoyed by the fact that nobody actually implements IMAP
[12:57] <mungojerry> awilkins: which version of exchange does NHS use?
[12:57] <awilkins> Although I think I may have a route into the NHS email thing... I may have a crack at it for my virtuous U^3 task
[12:57]  * mungojerry uses zimbra
[12:58] <awilkins> mungojerry, Not sure which version of Exchange we use .. we were on "Samsung Contact" which had an accessible IMAP server
[12:58] <mungojerry> imap is possible on exchange too
[12:58] <awilkins> But they dare not expose the Exchange IMAP to the internet, because it increases the attack surface
[12:59] <awilkins> They only expose Exchange to the internet through an XML-RPC gateway now
[12:59] <mungojerry> i wish tb worked with activesync
[12:59] <awilkins> MS bought it from some israeli security outfit
[12:59] <mungojerry> my zimbra server handles activesync brilliantly, but tb requires imap+ ical etc
[12:59] <awilkins> I think the problem with Activesync is that you need some kind of patented / not free licensed thing for the client
[13:00] <mungojerry> oh :(
[13:00] <mungojerry> i wonder who pays for it on my android
[13:00] <awilkins> Yes, you can't get the client from the Android sources, we've looked
[13:01] <awilkins> I think I've got a way of using the Evolution OWA plugin
[13:01] <mungojerry> i would buy a tb activesync plugin
[13:01] <awilkins> Just need to write something to penetrate the gateway wrapper
[13:01] <mungojerry> awilkins: isn't there also a proxy that handles exchange like you need it so
[13:01] <awilkins> Which I reckon I have the references for, just not the time to research and implement
[13:01] <mungojerry> an OSS proxy sitting between exchange
[13:02] <awilkins> There may be  ; the IMAP port is up but you can only see it from the internal network (so you can use TB inside)
[13:03] <awilkins> But the NHS network is mostly segregated from the internet ; we have a somewhat limited gateway and people are very strict about what passes through it
[13:04] <awilkins> Since I have Outlook I'm not overly annoyed (although Outlook is bobbins and so is Exchange - we have a 200MB limit on our mailboxes, the search is like treacle, etc)
[13:04] <awilkins> I sincerely wish they'd just bought some email appliances from Google
[13:05] <awilkins> If they can provide an 8GB mailbox with near instant search for nothing more than the opportunity to rifle through my mundane and boring communiques, I'm sure you get great value for $50 a year
[13:05] <danfish> awilkins: an alternative but clunky way would be to have offlineimap running inside NHSnet, the from there to gmail
[13:06] <mungojerry> there's another product but i can't think of the name
[13:06] <mungojerry> it talks exchange on one side, but handles imap etc when the client wants stuff
[13:07] <filo1234> Hi guys, where gdm gets information diplayed on login screen, like exit button, or Desktop Session chooser, or position about logo or login field?
[13:07] <danfish> mungojerry: I know the one you mean but can't remember the name. Doesn't work with NHS mail.
[13:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] conf.kde.in Slides - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4397
[13:07] <awilkins> NHS mail is only OWA / XMLRPC via a gateway from the outside
[13:07] <awilkins> Evolution has the OWA/XMLRPC component but not the gateway part
[13:08] <mungojerry> yeah, evolution sucks just as badly as outlook...although allow you to run a client on linux though
[13:08] <awilkins> I think I've found the relevant gubbins for the gateway part but I don't have the time or expertise to write it into a plugin for Evolution or Tbird
[13:08] <awilkins> Is there OWA support for Tbird?
[13:09] <awilkins> That might be a bit easier to write a gateway bit for because it's Javascript / XUL hmm? My C++ is not hot.
[13:09] <mungojerry> awilkins: not last time i looked, however i have no need yet...until the fascists change everything
[13:10] <awilkins> http://peterkao.com/2008/08/21/howto-configure-microsoft-exchange-and-outlook-web-access-for-thunderbird/
[13:10] <awilkins> Seems there may be such a thing
[13:10] <mungojerry> hmm need food
[13:38] <dogmatic69> i need to downgrade ruby gems and it seems like this can/should be done in apt-get.. anyone know how?
[13:38] <awilkins> dogmatic69, Synaptic has a "force older version" option so I suppose apt-get must have too
[13:39] <awilkins> Is it that you add =<version number> to your package string?
[13:39] <dogmatic69> http://josh.st/2005/07/23/rollbackdowngrade-using-apt-get/
[13:40] <awilkins> Yup, it is
[13:40] <dogmatic69> where do i get the right string to stick on the end then?
[13:40] <dogmatic69> need gem 1.4.x
[13:40] <dogmatic69> got 1.6.x
[13:41] <nperry_> !info sun-java6-jdk
[13:43] <awilkins> dogmatic69, If you do apt-cache showpkg it will spew a large list of stuff, the top of which shows you which versions are available
[13:43] <nperry_> Where has sun-java6-jdk gone
[13:43] <nperry_> It was in canonicals partner repo.
[13:43] <AlanBell> to oracle?
[13:44] <screen-x> nperry_: partner
[13:44] <mungojerry> hmm does anyone else check their 20p pieces compulsively to see if they have the valuable ones without a date on?
[13:44] <AlanBell> I had noticed a lack of it in Natty
[13:44] <screen-x> doh
[13:44]  * screen-x reads
[13:45] <nperry_> screen-x: Nope gone..
[13:45] <nperry_> OpenJDK doesn't cut it.
[13:46] <AlanBell> nperry_: seems to be there http://archive.canonical.com/dists/maverick/partner/binary-i386/Packages
[13:46] <awilkins> Could you tell me what problem you are experiencing with OpenJDK? Just out of interest as a Java developer - I've been using it by default and not so far had problems from what I've been doing.
[13:46] <dogmatic69> awilkins: that does not give a large list.. only about 10 lines witch more than half are dependencies
[13:47] <AlanBell> nperry_: not in amd64 though, just a jre there
[13:47] <dogmatic69> http://www.pastie.org/1655604
[13:47] <mungojerry> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9214002/Safari_IE_hacked_first_at_Pwn2Own
[13:48] <AlanBell> Natty has nothing in the partner repo at all at the moment
[13:48] <Myrtti> I've got a linguistic problem again
[13:49] <nperry_> awilkins: I'm compiling Android Open Source Project
[13:49] <nperry_> And it errors out
[13:49] <nperry_> While building.
[13:49] <DJones> Myrtti: In what way?
[13:49] <Myrtti> SMS is an acronym and is spelled. To my ear SMS sounds like it starts with a vowel. Is it AN SMS or A SMS?
[13:49] <awilkins> Myrtti, I would say "an"
[13:50] <mungojerry> an SMS, or a if you spell it out
[13:50] <popey> most people call it Text, not SMS these days :(
[13:50] <mungojerry> a Simple Messaging Service text or whatever in
[13:50] <mungojerry> txt
[13:50] <popey> i was in a pub years ago when mobile phones first started doing text, i had a nokia phone and it beeped
[13:50] <DJones> I'd say "an" or pronounce "a" to sound like hay
[13:50] <popey> ... --- ...
[13:51] <DJones> without the "h"
[13:51] <popey> maybe not, what's M in morse
[13:51] <popey> --
[13:51] <popey> so ... -- ...
[13:51] <popey> old guy next to me turned round and said "What's SMS?"
[13:51] <popey> "wut?"
[13:51] <awilkins> Sexual Mating Service
[13:51] <popey> "Someone just beeped out SMS in morse"
[13:51] <screen-x> brilliant :)
[13:51] <popey> he was a radio operator in the 2nd world war :)
[13:52] <nucc1> awilkins, was that english?
[13:52] <awilkins> My wife's phone still beeps SMS in Morse (Nokia 3310)
[13:52] <nucc1> SMS has become a word on its own.
[13:52] <dogmatic69> does anyone know what the older version of rubygems is called or where i can find this type of info so that i can downgrade it
[13:52] <mungojerry> One of the most often asked questions about grammar has to do with the choice of articles — a, an, the — to precede an abbreviation or acronym. Do we say an FBI agent or a  FBI agent? Although "F" is obviously a consonant and we would precede  any word that begins with "F" with "a," we precede FBI with "an" because  the first sound we make when we say FBI is not an "f-sound," it is an  "eff-sound."  Thus we say we're going to a PTO meetin
[13:53] <Myrtti> the old jingle for Finnish main news had morse code beeps that spelled out YLE (National Broadcasting Company)
[13:53] <awilkins> dogmatic69, http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/interpreters/rubygems
[13:53] <awilkins> Flick between releases
[13:53] <popey> happy days, when SMS first started
[13:54] <popey> my wife (then girlfriend) was on one network and I was on another, we had to hunt around for foreign message centres to bounce our SMS's off to go cross-network
[13:54] <bigcalm> Unhappy days when early phones only did upper case text
[13:54] <mungojerry> hated sending SMS until i got swype on my phone
[13:54] <DJones> swype o/
[13:54] <bigcalm> Or they did lowercase, but it was painful to use it
[13:54] <screen-x> popey: I didn't realise there wasn't cross networking sms routing from the beginning.
[13:55] <mungojerry> although swyp esucks on my htc desire :(
[13:55] <Myrtti> I'm still bitter that Swype isn't available on the market
[13:55] <Myrtti> and especially bitter that Finnish Swype isn't available other than OEM at all
[13:55] <mungojerry> Myrtti: it's available though
[13:55] <DJones> mungojerry: desire or desire hd?
[13:55] <screen-x> Annoys me that I have to pick up my phone to send/recieve sms, when I am at my desk.
[13:55] <mungojerry> desire DJones
[13:55] <bigcalm> screen-x: have a nokia and pc sweet then ;)
[13:55] <awilkins> We have a email to SMS gateway
[13:55] <bigcalm> suite
[13:55] <DJones> mungojerry: Ah, I've got it on my HD & its excellent
[13:55] <screen-x> pc sweet :)
[13:55] <mungojerry> when i boot the phone, often swype isn't enabled, and i have to turn it off and on again in the iunput settings
[13:56] <awilkins> You just send a mail to <number>@<gateway> and off it goes
[13:56]  * bigcalm grins and sighs
[13:56] <screen-x> mungojerry: htc desire has a not-quite multitouch screen :(
[13:56] <screen-x> awilkins: presumably you have to have an account at gateway?
[13:57] <awilkins> screen-x, 'tis an NHS thing ; I suspect it only works through our SMTP server
[13:57] <DJones> Myrtti: Might be worth registering with the swype website & next time they open up for testing you might get an invite, I registered ages ago and got onto the testing program, so free swype for me :)
[13:57] <DJones> Myrtti:
[13:57] <mungojerry> DJones: it's still free i think
[13:57] <DJones> Myrtti: http://beta.swype.com/
[13:57] <bigcalm> I tried swype early last year and found that it wasn't for me
[13:58] <awilkins> screen-x, I've had phone clients that would send SMS through a phone on a USB tether
[13:58] <dogmatic69> awilkins: i just see 1.8 and 1.9... where do you see a place to flick through the versions?
[13:58] <awilkins> There was a nice keyboardy thing for PalmOS
[13:58] <mungojerry> swype helps me type 10x faster
[13:58] <mungojerry> other keyboards are available too
[13:59] <mungojerry> i resisted the urge to go to subway today only because some pavement works meant that my journey would be extended by 2 minutes
[13:59] <DJones> mungojerry: Just looked for swype in the android market & can't see it
[14:00] <mungojerry> DJones: sorry , by freely available, i mean that the beta program is still open
[14:00] <DJones> mungojerry: It is, although I think they only send invites out every now & again
[14:00] <Myrtti> DJones: I am registered and I do have Swype
[14:00] <Myrtti> DJones: the beta version, which doesn't have Finnish
[14:01] <DJones> Myrtti: Ah, I thought you meant you didn't have it at all, I understand know
[14:03] <jgjones> very accurate ;-) https://twitpic.com/484tbx
[14:04] <mungojerry> DJones: this page seems to suggest you would have problems on your desire hd too. are you running sense or a different OS ? http://forum.swype.com/showthread.php?2279-Swype-is-Configured-for-Another-Device-Flashing-Blue-Box
[14:04] <screen-x> jgjones: thats not very nice
[14:05]  * screen-x notices who posted it..
[14:05] <selinuxium> Hmmm... Anyone had any experience with sshfs?
[14:05] <selinuxium> hi everyone!  o/
[14:05] <screen-x> hi selinuxium
[14:05] <screen-x> I have used it..
[14:06] <selinuxium> 'lo screen-x
[14:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Inaugural Open Data Waterloo Region CodeFest! on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/inaugural-open-data-waterloo-region-codefest-saturday-march-12-2011
[14:07] <jgjones> screen-x, :-P now that you noticed who posted it :)
[14:08] <mungojerry> i just remembered what i wanted to ask u guys about.
[14:08] <mungojerry> anyone used splashtop OS? http://www.splashtop.com/os
[14:09] <mungojerry> it seems they recently opened it up for nonOEM
[14:09] <popey> yes
[14:09] <mungojerry> popey: yes, to splashtop? used it recently?
[14:10]  * mungojerry likes the idea of 5 second boot, but not sure if it is possible on his eee
[14:10] <popey> yes
[14:10] <mungojerry> tell me more :P
[14:10] <mungojerry> seems to be a windows only installer :(
[14:11] <popey> it came pre-delivered on my acer revo
[14:11] <popey> i used it about twice
[14:11] <popey> about a year ago
[14:12] <gord> heh yeah i remember that thing
[14:12] <mungojerry> you're not really selling it to me :P
[14:12] <popey> it has lots of floss apps with their names redacted
[14:12] <popey> so firefox is "Web broser"
[14:12] <popey> pidgin is "Chat"
[14:12] <popey> etc
[14:12] <popey> without the typos
[14:12] <popey> it's not compelling. i can see it would be if your "main" os is slow
[14:13] <popey> but if it _is_ the main os then you'll likely feel hampered
[14:13] <DJones> mungojerry: I've seen teh problem when there are OTA updates, but other than that, I've haven't had any problems with swype, even then, all it took was a change input method & then back to swype to fix
[14:13] <popey> I would personally recommend crunchbang for eee pc
[14:13] <popey> i installed crunchbang statler on my eee 900 - works a treat
[14:14] <mungojerry> popey: used crunchbang in the past, but took as long to boot as ubuntu
[14:14] <mungojerry> DJones: do you ever reboot?
[14:15] <DJones> mungojerry: Maybe once a week if something has pinched all the memory & taskiller doesn't get it back
[14:15] <mungojerry> oh. i switch my phone off at night
[14:15] <screen-x> mungojerry: we are building up a picture of your evening routine ;-)
[14:15] <DJones> I just switch onto silent & charge iton the bedside cabinet
[14:16] <mungojerry> screen-x: you're right, phone off, head under duvet.
[14:16] <mungojerry> 10 hrs kip
[14:16] <screen-x> 10 hours \o/
[14:16] <mungojerry> it's what we aim for
[14:17] <mungojerry> still feel knackered all day though
[14:17] <DJones> Can't remember when I last had 10 hours sleep, the best I can manage is about 8 if I'm exhausted
[14:17] <bigcalm> 4 - 7 is optimal
[14:17] <mungojerry> depends on the person
[14:18] <bigcalm> Hence the range :)
[14:18] <mungojerry> mrs MJ has chronic fatigue and i think it leaks onto me somehow
[14:18] <popey> mungojerry: it boots quickly here
[14:18] <mungojerry> i used to survive on 5 hrs
[14:18] <popey> 6 hours kip here
[14:18] <DJones> I normally have about 6 hrs
[14:19] <mungojerry> just think what i could be doing with 4 hrs a night extra
[14:19] <screen-x> I get between 6 and 8, would like 10 though :)
[14:19] <mungojerry> tbh baby wakes me up an hour b4 that, but doesn't cry
[14:19] <mungojerry> i just hear him burbling and chatting
[14:20] <mungojerry> so its prob 9 hrs for me
[14:20] <mungojerry> i feel v sick and rubbish if i get <8
[14:20] <popey> how old is baby?
[14:21] <screen-x> mungojerry: you have a baby that sleeps for 9 hours?
[14:21] <popey> ours used to sleep for 12
[14:21] <mungojerry> :D
[14:21] <popey> still do mostly
[14:21] <mungojerry> plus he has a nap during the day for 1-2 hr
[14:21]  * czajkowski clearly missed the lesson on how to sleep 
[14:21] <czajkowski> 3 hrs a night is al I get
[14:21] <mungojerry> :-O
[14:21] <screen-x> czajkowski: yah, but then you come in here all drowsy
[14:22] <mungojerry> there's a pixies song about a man who's spent so much of his life sleeping he can stay awake the reset of his years
[14:22] <czajkowski> screen-x: aye today mostly I function though pretty ok
[14:23] <screen-x> czajkowski: yeah, if you usually only get 3 hours sleep, you do amazingly!
[14:23] <mungojerry> maggie thatcher famously survived on 4hrs a night
[14:24] <mungojerry> 3 vs 9 hmm..i could be getting so much more done
[14:24] <mungojerry> maybe i'd end up just playing minecraft and drinking
[14:24] <screen-x> mungojerry: yeah, keep the sleep :)
[14:25] <DJones> mungojerry: An extra 6 hours of awekness, just think how much longer you could spend watching the shopping channels on sky/virgin
[14:25] <davmor2> czajkowski: the lesson was called English honest :)
[14:26] <mungojerry> when i was a student i used to go out to clubs etc till 4am then get into college for my 9am computing lab
[14:26] <dogmatic69> how do i set an environment var
[14:26] <mungojerry> maybe my body is getting payback for those days
[14:26] <screen-x> dogmatic69: export foo=bah
[14:27] <mungojerry> i can't believe the splashtop OS requires windows to install...that's just super dumb :( no ISO
[14:27] <dogmatic69> screen-x: i have that in .bashrc
[14:27] <dogmatic69> is that the right place?
[14:28] <screen-x> dogmatic69: yeah
[14:28] <nucc1> dogmatic69, it feels wierd to see a cakephp wizard asking for help :p
[14:28] <popey> anyone got 5 mins and the gimp fancy editing an image for me?
[14:28] <popey> <- at work on windows pc and no art skillz
[14:28] <dogmatic69> then i did . ~/.bashrc
[14:28] <popey> technically it just needs resizing, not editing :)
[14:28] <dogmatic69> nucc1: im not a server admin... even less when it comes to ruby :/
[14:29] <DJones> popey: Gimp for windows? although that wouldn't solve the art skillz problem
[14:29] <dogmatic69> popey: MS paint...
[14:29] <screen-x> popey: winscp convert winscp ;-)
[14:29]  * popey gives up and asks elsewhere
[14:29] <dogmatic69> popey: just resizing i can do
[14:29] <DJones> I've got gimp for windows handy
[14:30] <nucc1> dogmatic69, don't mind me, you're awesome.
[14:30]  * AlanBell has gimp
[14:30] <dogmatic69> m$ gimp is pretty low on features
[14:30] <dogmatic69> nucc1: lol
[14:30] <DJones> dogmatic69: Yeah, but it will resize
[14:30] <AlanBell> will it blend?
[14:31] <awilkins> Paint.NET isn't too bad for Windows
[14:33] <DJones> AlanBell: It has a Blend option under Paint Tools
[14:36] <hellocatfood> Hi
[14:37] <screen-x> hi hellocatfood
[14:37] <hellocatfood> hi screen-x
[14:37] <hellocatfood> I'm just having a bit of trouble with external monitors, is this a good place to get help with it?
[14:38] <screen-x> hellocatfood: try, if anyone can help you, they will
[14:38] <hellocatfood> Cool
[14:38] <bigcalm> popey: I rather like cabbage
[14:39]  * awilkins still has some kimchi outside
[14:39] <selinuxium> I am trying to mount a remote Suse point to a 10.4 server and can't seem to get it to function as expected. it just mounts d?????????   :/
[14:39] <hellocatfood> Well, I've attached a projector to my laptop. It's able to mirror the screen easily, but I want to extend the desktop onto this monitor. Whenever I untick mirror screens it asks me to log out/in again but then just goes back to mirroring screens
[14:41] <BigRedS> hellocatfood: are you using the proprietary drivers?
[14:41] <BigRedS> It's _really_ not a good idea to use them unless you really need them
[14:41] <hellocatfood> Yep, ATI Radeon 4500
[14:41] <BigRedS> 'cause they're really rather poor
[14:41] <hellocatfood> I really need them
[14:41] <hellocatfood> As I'm doing visual performance with Pure Data
[14:42] <BigRedS> Ah. I couldn't get multiple monitors working on mine
[14:42] <hellocatfood> And without them I get rather crappy framerate
[14:42]  * gord just stops by to award hellocatfood the most insane irc nick he has seen all day ;)
[14:42] <hellocatfood> gord: haha thanks, I get that often :-)
[14:53] <ali1234> why don't you mirror the display in the projector?
[14:53] <directhex> fglrx is far better than it was
[14:54] <hellocatfood> It mirrors by default when I plug it in, but I'm doing a performance where the visuals will be displayed full screen on the projector and I'll be controlling it on my laptop
[14:54] <directhex> hellocatfood, are you using the catalyst control center to do the multi-monitor setup?
[14:54] <ali1234> it might be labelled as "rear projection mode" in the projector menus
[14:54] <hellocatfood> directhex: No, using System > Monitors
[14:55] <directhex> hellocatfood, try CCC. i know with nvidia-glx nvidia have their own dumb way of doing multi-monitor
[14:56] <hellocatfood> directhex: Thanks, will give it a try when I'm with the projector next
[14:56] <BigRedS> I couldn't get ccc to work, but YMWHV
[14:56] <directhex> fglrx-amdcccle package
[14:57] <hellocatfood> directhex: The strange thing is I've got an external monitor at home that works perfectly i.e. I can extend the desktop onto it with no trouble
[14:58] <mungojerry> projectors seem to be the major cause of embarrassment when using linux in a corporate environment
[14:58] <hellocatfood> Thanks for the advice directhex I'll give it a try
[14:58] <hellocatfood> mungojerry: yeah
[14:58] <ali1234> never had a problem
[14:59] <hellocatfood> mungojerry: Once I plugged one in and it crashed my computer. Upon restart my presentation was corrupted and wouldn't open.
[14:59] <hellocatfood> eep
[14:59] <hellocatfood> But generally speaking I've had relatively few problems
[14:59] <screen-x> hellocatfood: nightmare
[15:00] <hellocatfood> screen-x: luckily for me it was a short presentation that consisted mainly of images that I had backed up. Still annoying though
[15:00] <hellocatfood> It's mainly the whole mirroring/extending issue that I've encountered that's causing me grief
[15:00] <ali1234> don't try to mirror the screen on the computer
[15:00] <ali1234> use the built in function of the projector
[15:00] <ali1234> wait
[15:00] <hellocatfood> ali1234: I'm not trying to mirror, I'm trying to extend
[15:01] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell ye have mail
[15:01] <mungojerry> i was running kde3.5 at the time, that most people thought was either vista or mac os
[15:01] <ali1234> you're talking about cloning aren't you
[15:01] <hellocatfood> ali1234: cloning? please explain
[15:01] <ali1234> same display on two outputs
[15:02] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: actually you don't your mail just got returned to me
[15:02] <screen-x> ali1234: I wondered why you were talking about rear projection..
[15:02] <ali1234> not mirroring as in horizontal or vertical flip
[15:02] <hellocatfood> ali1234: no
[15:03] <hellocatfood> Ok, let me put it another way. Say you're doing a presentation using Openoffice impress and only your laptop and a projector. On the projector is the full screen slides. On your computer you may have the notes from the presentation
[15:03] <ali1234> right
[15:03] <ali1234> but you don't want to flip the output for eg rear projection
[15:03] <hellocatfood> No
[15:03] <ali1234> so you're not mirroring
[15:04] <ali1234> not even in the sense of cloning
[15:04] <hellocatfood> No, not mirroring
[15:04] <ali1234> you're just doing standard dual head
[15:04] <hellocatfood> Yeah
[15:04] <ali1234> well, have you tried rebooting the computer with the projector plugged...
[15:04] <hellocatfood> Yep
[15:04] <hellocatfood> and it just defaults back to mirroring
[15:05] <ali1234> cloning
[15:05] <hellocatfood> yeah
[15:05] <ali1234> yeah it will... at first
[15:05] <ali1234> but here is an interesting fact i discovered
[15:05] <ali1234> the standard dual head tool of gnome actually remembers your settings for different monitors
[15:05] <ali1234> so you have a laptop, and you plug into a external monitor, configure it all...
[15:06] <ali1234> then you go and plug into a different external monitor, and it "forgets" your settings
[15:06] <popey> ooo, didnt know that
[15:06] <ali1234> but if you go back to the first monitor, it will remember the settings for it
[15:06] <ali1234> this mechanism also seems quite buggy
[15:07] <mungojerry> talking of buggy..firefox 4 is shating my machine on a regular basis
[15:07] <mungojerry> /shating/shafting
[15:08] <ali1234> it probably is even more buggy on proprietary drivers so i suggest do what directhex said and use the ATI tool, not the gnome one
[15:08] <hellocatfood> ali1234: Thanks, will give it a try. Just hope it all works for the performance otherwise I'm screwed
[15:08] <ali1234> but i have no experience of ATI since i only use nvidia, and my laptop has intel graphics which "just works"
[15:10]  * bigcalm ponders plugging his laptop into something with hdmi to see if it'll work out of the box
[15:10] <hellocatfood> I'm doign that now ;-)
[15:10] <hellocatfood> It clones it all well and good
[15:11] <ali1234> if all else fails i suggest printing your notes
[15:11] <ali1234> actually i suggest doing that anyway
[15:11] <ali1234> always good to have a backup plan
[15:11] <hellocatfood> ali1234: That was a hypothetical situation. Next thursday I'm doing a video performance (VJ-ing)
[15:12] <hellocatfood> And for that I need to be able to extend the desktop
[15:12] <mungojerry> or one of those big magnifying glasses
[15:12] <ali1234> VJ-ing? is that a real thing?
[15:13] <hellocatfood> ali1234: yeah. It goes under many names but it's essentially doing video visuals at concerts
[15:13] <ali1234> yeah i have seen it
[15:13] <ali1234> i always figured they just loaded some video clips into the software and hit "go"
[15:14] <hellocatfood> Nah
[15:14] <hellocatfood> Depends what thing you're going to see
[15:14] <hellocatfood> It can be either
[15:15] <hellocatfood> Can be compared to lisetning to a CD or going to a concert
[15:15] <hellocatfood> there's just something different about seeing it done live
[15:15] <hellocatfood> but anyways, that's a topic for a PhD thesis ;-)
[15:15] <hellocatfood> right, time to restart and see if it worked
[15:16] <popey> at uds one of the Ubuntu studio guys had a VJ app he'd written
[15:16] <popey> it was pre-loaded with all his videos, and had a button he could tap to get it in sync with the beat of the music
[15:17] <popey> was quite neat
[15:17] <czajkowski> popey: aye luisbg has that
[15:17] <czajkowski> rather funky
[15:17] <popey> it was him
[15:17] <popey> he wrote it
[15:17] <mungojerry> is it my poor memory or did ubuntu used to have less kernel updates requiring a reboot?
[15:17] <czajkowski> nods
[15:18] <czajkowski> he works for Collabora now
[15:18] <ali1234> i once saw luke vibert, it was literally just him sitting on stage behind a laptop, pressing two keys to trigger two samples over and over
[15:19] <BigRedS> mungojerry: it used to be a lot less insistent
[15:20] <mungojerry> BigRedS: maybe certain kernel updates only came if you enabled backports or something?
[15:20] <BigRedS> mmm, perhaps. I wonder if it used to just install kernels as any other package
[15:20] <mungojerry> i've run ubuntu since 2005 and i never remeber having such low uptimes
[15:20] <BigRedS> and only now it feels the need to go "you have a new kernel and WILL boot into it"
[15:21] <screen-x> mungojerry: you dont have to reboot just because a new kernel has been installed..
[15:21] <mungojerry> screen-x: i don't HAVE to...but i remember less kernel updates
[15:22] <mungojerry> also, regarding yesterday's convo about close or quit...my banshee is using virt 874m res 477m...and i'm not even playing any music
[15:22] <ali1234> ubuntu used to have a less annoying way of notifying you about updates that probably resulted in less reboot requests
[15:22] <ali1234> update frequency was about the same though
[15:23]  * bigcalm can't contain himself and mutters 'fewer' before going to make a cuppa tea
[15:23] <mungojerry> less frequent :P
[15:23] <mungojerry> is that allowed?
[15:23] <bigcalm> Indeed
[15:23] <bigcalm> 'frequent' is singular
[15:23]  * popey cuddles bigcalm 
[15:24] <mungojerry> lol
[15:24] <bigcalm> Less frequent, fewer frequents ;)
[15:24] <ali1234> "less reboot requests" is wrong
[15:24] <ali1234> but i don't care
[15:25] <mungojerry> i think my swappiness is wrong
[15:25] <shauno> it only goes back to jan09, but ksplice's chart was interesting; http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/misc/ksplice_uptrack_reboots.jpg
[15:25] <mungojerry> http://i.imgur.com/aEjkQ.jpg
[15:26] <mungojerry> shauno: i only do security updates on RHEL and i'm sure there's not that many
[15:27] <screen-x> Lyx seems to be behaving differently when started from terminal, to when started from menu. http://i.imgur.com/DZvgl.png
[15:28] <screen-x> Was going to strace, to see what it was failing to read/write, but I couldn't reproduce the problem.
[15:30] <mungojerry> screen-x: what command is the  menu launcher running
[15:31] <screen-x> mungojerry: lyx %F
[15:31] <mungojerry> hmm dunno
[15:32] <mungojerry> i'm amazed at how leaky programs get after a few weeks
[15:32] <mungojerry> hotot: 600mb resident , docky, 300mb resident...
[15:45] <tugrik> if I've got a partition listed as mounted, but the physical media isn't there any more, if there any way to force it to unmount that's more effective than "umount -f"?
[15:46] <DJones> tugrik: Wouldn't happen to be a USB stick would it?
[15:46] <tugrik> it was, yes
[15:46] <DJones> I've got a similar thing, desktop icon for a usb stick thats been safely removed, but the icon is still sat on the desktop
[15:47] <mungojerry> lsof shows nothing?
[15:47] <tugrik> i've got two entries in the output of "mount", it seems rather lame to have to reboot to remove them
[15:47] <DJones> I narrowed it down to a corruptly formatted stick, but the only solution I found was a reboot
[15:47] <screen-x> tugrik: what happens if you ls the mountpoint?
[15:47] <tugrik> yeah, nothing in lsof output
[15:48] <tugrik> there's nothing there
[15:48] <mungojerry> is it present in mtab?
[15:48] <tugrik> yes
[15:48] <screen-x> tugrik: then you could edit mtab manually (at your own risk, not recommended, etc)
[15:49] <mungojerry> or maybe trace umount to find out what it's doing
[15:49] <tugrik> can I just manually edit /etc/mtab?  or am I asking for trouble? ;)
[15:49] <tugrik> ah
[15:49] <tugrik> what screen-x said :)
[15:49] <ZoeR> Hello all!
[15:50] <daubers> tugrik: -l will do a lazy unmount and is sometimes a bit effective than l
[15:50] <daubers> f sorry
[15:51] <daubers> umount -l /path/to/broken/mount
[15:52] <tugrik> ah
[15:52] <bigcalm> Can you have a CNAME entry in one domain record that points to another domain?
[15:52] <tugrik> *blush*
[15:53] <tugrik> I may have been a little over-enthusiastic in marking files immutable, the problem has now "gone away"
[15:53] <imexil> popey, not sure if this was already pointed out to you but in the new (great) episode it was mentioned that browser tabs were "invented" by Firefox but iirc Opera was there first ;)
[15:54] <ali1234> lol
[15:54] <BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah
[15:54] <BigRedS> it's where they're mostly used IME
[15:54] <danfish> bigcalm: pretty sure you can yes - my dyndns point to anbother domain
[15:54] <tugrik> and mungojerry, cheers, strace was a help
[15:56] <bigcalm> Thanks guys. I thought you could. Looks like everydns is just being slow then
[15:56] <popey> imexil: :) it has, numerous times :)
[15:57] <bigcalm> Just seen the ice-cream van trundle past in the pouring rain. Good luck to him I say
[15:57] <imexil> I thought so :-D Propably from all Norwegian based/loving listeners in an huge outrage :-D
[15:57] <ali1234> opera wasn't first
[15:57] <ali1234> and neither was firefox
[15:58] <imexil> so who was ali1234?
[15:58] <ali1234> ibrowse on amiga
[15:58] <ali1234> but the fact is that firefox was the first that more than about 10 people actually used
[15:59] <imexil> oi!
[16:01] <ali1234> the only innovative thing firefox has ever done is chuck out all the bloat
[16:01] <ali1234> but they seem hell-bent on adding it all back in now
[16:01] <popey> never seen the attraction with opera
[16:02] <ali1234> it has mouse gestures!
[16:02] <imexil> It used to be way faster than Mozilla
[16:02] <ali1234> how can you not like mouse gestures!
[16:02] <BigRedS> imexil: ISTR it first appeared as an add-on for IE
[16:02] <popey> :)
[16:02]  * popey gestures to ali1234 
[16:03] <imexil> Well point was really unfortunately it wasn't a product of OpenSource :(
[16:03] <Baikonur> i used opera for a while, back when i learned there are other browsers than IE :)
[16:03] <imexil> yet again
[16:03] <ali1234> what ever has been?
[16:03] <imexil> Well that was the discussion all about and it is really hard to find something.
[16:03] <ali1234> i mean, except for everything made by computing industry prior to about 1983
[16:04] <imexil> One thing that I could name now is BitCoin
[16:04] <imexil> Haven't seen something like that in the propriety world of sw
[16:04] <Baikonur> that might count if some one actually starts to use it
[16:04] <ali1234> yeah, bitcoin is too crazy
[16:05] <ali1234> maybe tabbed browsing wasn't open source... but the www itself was
[16:05] <ali1234> and what about... bittorrent?
[16:06] <Baikonur> i have bitcoin running, and i have 5 bitpence there, but i don't even know what it's used for
[16:06] <alexcockell> #hamradio
[16:06] <ali1234> it's not used for anything
[16:06] <bigcalm> How does one clear DNS cache in linux?
[16:06] <alexcockell> Not sure.
[16:07] <screen-x> bigcalm: there isnt a dns cache, unless you have installed one
[16:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Drupal Q&A site at stackexchange.com - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/drupal-qa-site-stackexchangecom
[16:07] <bigcalm> Humf
[16:07]  * bigcalm pokes the router then
[16:07] <screen-x> bigcalm: are you using nscd or dnsmasq?
[16:08] <bigcalm> screen-x: I have no idea what either of those are :)
[16:08] <screen-x> bigcalm: probably not using them then ;-)
[16:08] <bigcalm> screen-x: just what I'm thinking too
[16:10] <screen-x> bigcalm: you can use a service like http://www.whatsmydns.net/ to check the dns responses recieved by servers in various countries
[16:10] <bigcalm> Coo. Thanks for that
[16:13] <mungojerry> tugrik: cool. no probs
[16:13] <popey> there's an app for benchmarking dns too
[16:13] <popey> on google code
[16:14] <popey> http://code.google.com/p/namebench/
[16:14]  * daubers makes an app to destroy the word "app"
[16:15] <jpds> danfish: http://dilbert.com/fast/2011-03-03/
[16:16] <bigcalm> LOL
[16:17] <imexil> bigcalm: There is also a very sophisticated program from Steve Gibbson (runs on Wine!) http://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm
[16:17] <popey> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[16:18] <popey> etc
[16:18] <imexil> You don't like SG then, popey? ;)
[16:19] <popey> meh
[16:19] <popey> he's a guy making a living
[16:19] <popey> i just find him a little OTT
[16:19] <popey> (like most Americans)
[16:20] <bigcalm> It's great when CEO from $company confirms for DNS changes to be made and then 20 mins later a VP of $company phones me to ask why their site has gone away
[16:20]  * bigcalm sighs
[16:20] <popey> hehe
[16:21] <bigcalm> It's great that I get to deal with the top dogs of various companies, but it would be great if they could communicate within themselves
[16:21] <bigcalm> Everything is just great!
[16:21] <bigcalm> Time for a great big mug of tea
[16:22] <popey> \o/ tea
[16:26] <ging> what about a big mug of 3 minute microwave cake
[16:26] <gord> i would love a tea cake
[16:26] <ging> gord: did you just say that or was that a script that pics up on the word cake?
[16:26]  * bigcalm head-desks
[16:26]  * DJones gets a nice big mug of redbush
[16:27] <gord> i would love a tea cake
[16:27] <Azelphur> btw gord / brobostigon back in January I was talking about Anonymous and you made it sound like all they knew how to do was DDoS, I'm curious on what you think of the HBGary attack :P
[16:27] <Azelphur> if you've heard of it
[16:27] <bigcalm> I've changed /etc/hosts to point at the site's new IP address. But the server is now timing out. This isn't my afternoon
[16:27] <ging> gord: now you're just playing with me
[16:30] <gord> Azelphur, i have no thoughts about that
[16:30] <gord> just about tea-cakes
[16:30] <Azelphur> I see :P
[16:37] <hellocatfood> To ali1234 and directhex thanks for the help regarding connecting to external monitors, using the catalyst menu work (at least via hdmi on my tv)
[16:46] <gord> sigh, what happened to the sun...
[16:52] <mungojerry> march is the windy month though
[16:52] <mungojerry> hey the sun is almost out in london
[16:53] <popey> its out here
[16:53] <popey> shining on my screen!
[16:54] <gord> :(
[16:54] <mungojerry> popey: http://www.dilbert.com/fast
[16:54] <popey> heh
[16:55]  * mungojerry has spent the last hour reading FOI requests at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com
[16:55] <Laney> what DO they know?
[16:55] <Laney> not a lot?
[16:57] <mungojerry> i know a lot more now
[17:13]  * danfish has livers for his tea tonight
[17:14] <danfish> and red wine of course
[17:16]  * bigcalm slaps rackspace
[17:16] <bigcalm> You tell it to use one document root for both :80 and :443 but it doesn't listen
[17:16] <bigcalm> *sigh*
[17:17] <bigcalm> Do my eyes decieve me?
[17:17] <bigcalm> Plesk uses php3?
[17:18] <shauno> somehow I wouldn't find that surprising
[17:22] <bigcalm> A client's shell uses darkblue on black for directory names. How might I apply a better colour scheme?
[17:24] <shauno> a pointy stick?
[17:25] <bigcalm> :)
[17:26] <shauno> $LS_COLORS hurts my head, I'd just copy it across from a sane env
[17:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: that's easy gauge out their eyes and give them a Braille tablet
[17:26] <bigcalm> :|
[17:27] <bigcalm> This is for my benefit
[17:27] <bigcalm> Client doesn't ssh to their webhost
[17:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: Oh sorry thought it was a consumer request :)  can you not just change it locally using dev tools or fire bug?
[17:29] <bigcalm> firebug? that's a web browser plugin
[17:29] <bigcalm> I am very confused now :)
[17:33] <shauno> well, the short answer is just to edit the envar LS_COLORS to match your preference ;)
[17:36] <bigcalm> I managed to make do by putting my nose up to the monitor.
[17:36] <bigcalm> Don't need to ssh to that server too offten, so I can cope I guess
[17:38] <shauno> dircolors --print-database >~/.dircolors   then change the line reading 'DIR 01;34' to something more sensible.  it'll be parsed when you login, so it'll "stick"
[17:39] <shauno> (I use "DIR 01" so it's just bold but not coloured.  makes it whiter than a normal file on my term)
[17:42] <shauno> guess quicker fix would be 'unalias ls' so it's not running ls --color=auto.  maybe easier to remember for next time :)
[17:56] <bigcalm> How does one set up their linux box to share mp3s in a way that iTunes will see it without fuss?
[17:56] <bigcalm> (iTunes on another machine within the network)
[18:01] <AlanBell> toodles
[18:02] <bigcalm> Taaraa
[18:02] <popey> http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1089/community-promotion-ads-1h-2011/1099#1099
[18:02] <popey> vote vote vote UUPC up!
[18:02] <popey> (please)
[18:03] <ali1234> bigcalm: you need daap sharing i think
[18:03] <bigcalm> ali1234: just reading about that: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20030711140157143
[18:04] <ali1234> i think rhythmbox or banshee has a plugin, one of those. can't remember which, i only use spotify now
[18:05] <bigcalm> It's a headless server I'll be using
[18:06] <bigcalm> Vote Up requires 15 reputation
[18:06]  * bigcalm gives up and mentally likes it
[18:08] <popey> bah
[18:09] <shauno> voted .. pretend it's bigcalm by proxy :p
[18:09] <bigcalm> Most kind
[18:10] <popey> answer some questions :)
[18:10] <popey> unanswered ones to get good karma/points/whatever they are
[18:12] <bigcalm> You must have at least 5 reputation on Ask Ubuntu to answer a question
[18:12]  * bigcalm thinks this system does not favour new users
[18:12] <arsen> why is it popey is a name i see everywhere
[18:13] <arsen> aer you THE popey ?!
[18:13] <shauno> simple.  popey's everywhere.
[18:13] <arsen> \4:D
[18:16] <brobostigon> i reckon my dad is a politician at heart, he does everything to avoid answering questions, with proper answers.
[18:17] <bigcalm> Would you like a tea or coffee?
[18:17] <brobostigon> coffee, please.
[18:17] <bigcalm> Yes please
[18:17] <bigcalm> See, you wouldn't make for a politician
[18:17] <brobostigon> yes, lke that.
[18:18] <brobostigon> its damn annoying,
[18:19] <popey> hello arsen
[18:19] <arsen> :))
[18:19] <arsen> ive no idea where i know the name popey from, and the one i know was probably not you
[18:19] <AlanBell> !popey
[18:20] <arsen> oh its AlanBell !
[18:20] <arsen> i do remember AlanBell being a very helpful person in the past :p
[18:20] <popey> pffft
[18:20] <popey> ;)
[18:20] <AlanBell> really?
[18:20] <popey> lies
[18:20] <arsen> i think you helped me fix something.
[18:24] <gord> okay so i normally get annoyed with country selections, "is it uk, gb, england?" but this one takes the cake. it *was* uk, but they put united kingdom in the g's where great britain would be...
[18:31] <daubers> Evening
[18:40] <shauno> it irks me when they expect 'gb'.
[18:41] <shauno> was once told our cctld was meant to be .gb, but we beat ukraine to it and ruined it before it was properly standardized.  this makes no sense to me.  GB is an island, not a country.
[19:48] <safiyyah> hi all need help with printer
[19:49] <safiyyah> I have a brother MFC-J265, my HP broke down :( Anyway, I have installed the printer but getting nothing as far as the scanner. It is an all in one with fax... but I won't be using the fax
[19:49] <safiyyah> help anyone?
[19:59] <gr33npeace> safiyyah: do you hplib installed?
[19:59] <gr33npeace> safiyyah: what i normally do is to plug in the scanner, and then run hp-scan from the command line
[20:00] <gr33npeace> safiyyah: it's far from ideal... but it does the trick for the (very) small amount of scanning I do
[20:00] <safiyyah> gr33npeace,  i just came with a brother printer today
[20:00] <safiyyah> my hp died
[20:00] <gr33npeace> oops
[20:00] <safiyyah> so hplip isnt doing me any good
[20:01] <safiyyah> i have never had a brother
[20:01] <gr33npeace> sorry... didn't read properly!
[20:01] <safiyyah> so its cool and all.... but hp... the scanner just works... this one doesn't ... am on google now finding info
[20:01] <safiyyah> lol
[20:02] <gr33npeace> are you using Xsane?
[20:03] <gr33npeace> seems to be some information on here: http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/faq_scn.html
[20:04] <safiyyah> thanx gr33npeace :) am on it now
[20:05] <gr33npeace> any time... good luck!
[20:06] <mungojerry1> popey: i'm next to you in the user league for askubuntu last quarter :)
[20:07] <mungojerry1> http://stackexchange.com/leagues/31/quarter/askubuntu/2011-01-01/1960#1960
[20:09] <mungojerry1> everyone's out tonight and mungojerry is in doing his backups
[20:15] <popey> didnt know there were league tables!
[20:15] <safiyyah> brb reboot
[20:17] <shauno> *gasp* the tables have a big red number next to popey?!  slacker!
[20:18] <DJones> shauno: File a bug
[20:18] <popey> heh
[20:20] <DJones> popey: I do wonderhow you find time to do any "paid" work with all the time you put into answering questions on the forums/askubuntu/irc/mailing list & others, are you sure you've not been cloned
[20:20] <mungojerry1> and does your employer not notice?
[20:23] <popey> hah
[20:23] <popey> I am self employed :)
[20:24] <mungojerry1> there seems to be a lot of confusion over where is best to ask questions and report bugs..quite a lot of askubuntu questions seem to be bug reports, and launchpad questions/wiki/irc/mailings also allow questions to be answered
[20:24] <mungojerry1> and ubuntu forums of course
[20:26] <popey> http://stackexchange.com/leagues/31/alltime/askubuntu/2010-07-28/612#612
[20:26] <popey> 77 overall! :D
[20:28] <mungojerry1> jorge castro must spend all day on that site
[20:29] <bigcalm> Anybody here know how to configure Tangerine?
[20:30] <daubers> bigcalm: Peel it and eat it?
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> Has anyone tried "f.lux"?
[20:34] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes, it made me ill
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it did? how?
[20:35] <bigcalm> Similar to motion sickness I guess
[20:35] <bigcalm> The defaults made me feel sick, I didn't bother to try any other settings
[20:37] <bigcalm> It might work for you
[20:38] <gr33npeace> any resident python coders in?  I've been banging my head against the httplib for a while, and after making the connection, the call to "socket.getaddrinfo" is taking forever...
[20:39] <gr33npeace> are there alternatives?  Don't really want to use urllib(2), as I have a series of requests to handle.
[20:39] <gr33npeace> httplib seemed like the thing to use...
[21:02] <daubers> d/win 10
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> daubers: fail :)
[21:04] <daubers> MartijnVdS: yup
[21:04]  * MartijnVdS waits for a ustream channel to start
[21:25] <popey> \o/ pub-o-clock
[21:26] <Nafallo> popey: wow. late such...
[21:26] <bigcalm> A DNS record with a TTL of 86400 would mean that any change would not propogate for 1 day?
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it means that it can be cached for 24 hours
[21:27] <bigcalm> Ok
[21:27] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so if someone requested the hostname 1 second before you edited it, its caching nameserver will cache for 24 hours
[21:27] <bigcalm> Aha
[21:27] <bigcalm> Makes sense
[21:27] <MartijnVdS> if they did it 23 hours before, they have to wait 1 hour
[21:28] <bigcalm> Using dig nameserver domain any, I can see that the domain I'm interested in is showing an old IP address
[21:28] <bigcalm> Does that mean that it's cached or that it hasn't actually been changed?
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: can you pastebin the dig output?
[21:29] <Nafallo> bigcalm: tell dig to use the authorative name servers for the domain in question?
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> dig +trace is also cool
[21:29] <bigcalm> Nafallo: I'm asking the name server specified in the whois result
[21:30] <bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/578534/
[21:30] <Nafallo> if that has the old IP, it's sounds likely that the change didn't happen then.
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it says you're asking 192.168.1.1
[21:30] <bigcalm> Ug
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: try "@ns.rackspace.com" :)
[21:30] <bigcalm> Ah
[21:31] <bigcalm> Same result on the A record
[21:31] <bigcalm> This isn't good
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: look at the last lines.. it'll say which server it used
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if that's 192.168.1.1, you're not asking ns.rackspace.com :)
[21:32] <bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/578535/
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> ah yes
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> and that IP (83.138.191.121) is wrong?
[21:33] <bigcalm> Yes
[21:33] <bigcalm> That's the old IP address
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> then you should have rackspace update the nameserver
[21:33] <bigcalm> The client wanted it to use an SSL cert. So we had them order a new IP as well
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> Why?
[21:34] <bigcalm> There are other sites hosted on that IP as well
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> You only need an extra IP if you want to use >1 SSL host
[21:34] <bigcalm> Indeed :)
[21:34] <bigcalm> There are several with and without SSL
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> Also, proper browsers support TLS/SNI now :)
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/NameBasedSSLVHostsWithSNI
[21:34] <bigcalm> Aaaaaaaaaaany way
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> SNI \o/
[21:35] <bigcalm> I need to inform the client that they didn't update the DNS settings
[21:35] <bigcalm> Which is confusing
[21:38]  * brobostigon returns
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[21:39] <brobostigon> evening MartijnVdS :)
[21:39] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: oooh, what browsers do/don't do that then?
[21:40]  * brobostigon gets everyone real ale.
[21:40] <Nafallo> I bet wikipedia will have a list. they tend to like lists at that place.
[21:40] <Nafallo> ^-- AlanBell
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: IE7>, FF2>, Opera8>, Chrome5>
[21:41] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#Support
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> that, yes
[21:41] <AlanBell> so everything anyone uses except IE6
[21:41] <AlanBell> bonus
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: WinPhone<7 also isn't supported
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> some people still use Windows phones
[21:41] <AlanBell> double bonus
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> it has a test link
[21:45] <Nafallo> how about Symbian?
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> Honeycomb+
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> gingerbread, not so much
[21:48] <bigcalm> Have the honeycomb theme running on gingerbread, it's very swish ;)
[21:49] <bigcalm> So, is gingerbread the last development of 2?
[21:51] <bigcalm> 2h 5m on battery \o/
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that's what I heard
[21:52]  * MartijnVdS wants the xoom
[21:52] <bigcalm> Bit big to fit in ones pocket
[21:53] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: great for on the table/sofa
[21:53] <bigcalm> I'm sure :)
[21:54] <bigcalm> Netbook / phone do the same to an extent
[21:54] <bigcalm> Though I use my netbook a lot less since getting the N1
[21:54] <MartijnVdS> My laptop (13") is nice, but it's too bulky
[21:54] <MartijnVdS> also, it's very distracting
[21:54] <MartijnVdS> compared to something that can only do a bit of browsing/imdbing ;)
[21:56] <bigcalm> I'm sure everything has its use and some people will enjoy some devices more than others
 :(
[21:57] <Nafallo> netbook ♥
[22:06] <AlanBell> http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Saturday 16th is looking strong still
[22:06] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[22:15] <HazRPG> I need to be less of a tab horde!
[22:15] <HazRPG> I swear that says I've got 132 tabs... >_<
[22:16] <brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
[22:16] <HazRPG> brobostigon: evening :)
[22:17] <HazRPG> I've got chicken hotdogs!
[22:17] <HazRPG> \o/
[22:18] <brobostigon> yummy,
[22:24] <HazRPG> indeed :)
[22:24]  * HazRPG does not like pork
[22:25] <HazRPG> I find it smells funny too
[22:25] <brobostigon> interesting.
[23:07] <ZoeR>  all
[23:07] <ZoeR> Hi all
[23:08]  * ZoeR has no idea where the first 'Hi' went
[23:08] <brobostigon> evening ZoeR
[23:08] <Nafallo> hi ZoeR
[23:08] <ZoeR> How are you all tonight?
[23:09] <brobostigon> ZoeR: very tired, but i want to stay yp to watch, this week. and you?
[23:09] <ZoeR> Not bad, thanks. Just been watching 'House' and now have to work.
[23:09] <brobostigon> not seen that in ages,
[23:10]  * Nafallo yawns
[23:10]  * brobostigon gets Nafallo a cuppa.
[23:10] <Nafallo> relentless would be better, but thanks :-)
[23:10] <brobostigon> :)
[23:10] <ZoeR> Relentless is awesome
[23:11] <ZoeR> I wish they sold the sugar free version in more places 'round here though
[23:11] <brobostigon> i cant stand those energydrinks, they taste foul.
[23:11] <zleap> they sell that at the lighthouse in paignton, explains why the young people there are so hyper sometimes
[23:11] <Nafallo> there is a sugar free version?
[23:11] <Nafallo> that sounds boring... one less rush to hit ya :-/
[23:11] <ZoeR> Yes. 'Libertus'. It's in a blue can
[23:12] <ZoeR> And yes, it's one rush less but I'll take what I can get.
[23:12]  * Nafallo used to live of relentless, but mostly converted to water since new year
[23:13] <brobostigon> off*
[23:13]  * ZoeR used to live off Relentless and Wine Gums but now isn't allowed either because they gave her a sugar addiction
[23:13] <Nafallo> brobostigon: ta :-)
[23:13] <ZoeR> Hence why I want more places to stock the blue one
[23:13] <brobostigon> Nafallo: :)
[23:14]  * Nafallo inserts an off before the of
[23:14] <ZoeR> heh
[23:14] <brobostigon> ZoeR: you got it right, Nafallo didnt.
[23:15] <ZoeR> Well I suppose I had to be right some time.
[23:15] <Nafallo> brobostigon: I got it proper right after your correction though :-P
[23:15] <brobostigon> Nafallo: yes, :)
[23:16]  * brobostigon plays pedant.
[23:16]  * Nafallo waits for U1 to finish uploading stuff
[23:19] <ZoeR> I really should do some work
[23:19] <Nafallo> I should pack
[23:19]  * ZoeR decides to have a cup of tea instead
[23:19] <Nafallo> actually. I should pack tomorrow.
[23:19] <Nafallo> but I should hang laundry before bed.
[23:20]  * brobostigon gets ZoeR a twist of rum for her tea, as brobostigon has in his.
[23:21] <ZoeR> Gah!
[23:21]  * ZoeR heads for the antihistamines
[23:21] <brobostigon> oh, sorry,
[23:21] <ZoeR> hey, no worries
[23:21] <brobostigon> my apoologies.
[23:22]  * Nafallo throws out ZoeR's tea and makes a new one
[23:22] <ZoeR> awww, thanks. :)
[23:22] <ZoeR> I have to say it was a right pain finding that one out
[23:23] <ZoeR> Ever tried going to the doctor complaining about feeling really sick after you've been drinking? :)
[23:23] <brobostigon> i can imagine.i have some bad and weird and awkward allergies myself.
[23:23] <Nafallo> ZoeR: heh, my father is a doctor... so yeah ;-)
[23:23] <ZoeR> :D
[23:26] <Nafallo> oh
[23:26] <Nafallo> good
[23:26] <Nafallo> my dance class isn't until 11:30
[23:26] <Nafallo> I was certain it was at 10am or so
[23:27]  * brobostigon has an appointment with his hair dresser just after 10am.
[23:27]  * ZoeR hates morning appointments
[23:27] <Nafallo> well, I need to pack enough things for a weekend before I leave home :-)
[23:27]  * brobostigon agree's mostly.
[23:28] <Nafallo> I bet it'll take me like.. 1h30min to get to the place as well :-/
[23:28] <ZoeR> If anyone tries to organise a meeting with me and it's before 1pm, I will be hating them all the way through it
[23:28] <Nafallo> actually. I should probably figure out how I'll get there :-P
[23:29] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:30] <ZoeR> Goodnight
[23:30] <brobostigon> good night ZoeR
[23:30]  * ZoeR needs more tea
[23:30] <ZoeR> Back in a sec
[23:32] <Nafallo> lol. tfl thinks I should take the boat at 10:01 :-)
[23:33] <HazRPG> man, its really warm now
[23:34] <HazRPG> ZoeR: oh hey, :)
[23:35] <HazRPG> aww man I just missed brobostigon :(
[23:35] <HazRPG> shauno!
[23:35] <HazRPG> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ssc6iL2Qd6hFG3Xu6YgGIw?feat=directlink
[23:35] <hamitron> it is warm? :/
[23:35] <Baikonur> the thermos?
[23:35]  * hamitron is freezing his thingies off
[23:36] <HazRPG> it is in my house...
[23:36]  * HazRPG had heating on - but is now off for the heat factor is too much
[23:36] <hamitron> I reckon a cold house is bad for you
[23:36] <hamitron> coffee cools down quicker, so you end up drinking more
[23:36] <HazRPG> me?
[23:37] <Nafallo> oh. good point.
[23:37] <Nafallo> I should turn off the heating tomorrow.
[23:37] <HazRPG> hamitron: check the link :)
[23:38] <hamitron> a coffee flask...
[23:38] <ZoeR> Cold houses are definitely bad for you. They encourage mould growth
[23:38] <hamitron> ZoeR: mold is bad for you?
[23:38] <ZoeR> yes
[23:38] <Nafallo> and when I said off, I meant 17 degrees instead of 22 :-P
[23:38] <hamitron> tbh, I open the window to remove moisture
[23:39] <ZoeR> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/toxic-black-mold-symptoms-poisoning.html
[23:39] <Nafallo> ooooh
[23:39] <Nafallo> poison!
[23:39] <ZoeR> yeah
[23:39]  * Nafallo puts on headphones
[23:39] <ZoeR> it's horrible stuff. gets through the blood-brain barrier
[23:40] <hamitron> if only I could harvest it to use on people I don't like
[23:41] <ZoeR> You can grow it fairly easily, if my house is anything to go by
[23:41] <Nafallo> braaaaains
[23:41]  * ZoeR will be so glad to move out of here
[23:42]  * hamitron has the window open
[23:42] <hamitron> damn cold
[23:42] <hamitron> :/
[23:43] <HazRPG> :( nothings showing on the TV :(
[23:43] <hamitron> you tuned it in?
[23:44] <HazRPG> its an A/V cable
[23:44] <HazRPG> shouldn't need tuning
[23:44] <ZoeR> You can't tune a TV nowadays, can you? They need a digibox
[23:44] <HazRPG> ZoeR: this tv is from 1991 ;)
[23:44] <hamitron> ofc you can tune a tv!
[23:44] <hamitron> ;)
[23:45]  * ZoeR only has a TV for playing Guitar Hero, so she isn't au fait with how they work
[23:45]  * hamitron sighs
[23:45] <hamitron> youngsters ;)
[23:46] <ZoeR> who is a youngster?
[23:47] <PalaPad> Definitely not me lol
[23:47] <zleap> speccys for ever :)
[23:47] <hamitron> zleap: which you got?
[23:47] <zleap> zx spectrum 48k+
[23:48] <hamitron> :)
[23:48] <ZoeR> Speccys were not as good as the good old CPC!
[23:48] <zleap> plus the speccy classics 98 cdrom
[23:48] <zleap> so i can play emulated game
[23:48] <zleap> s
[23:48] <hamitron> ZX 128k +2 ;)
[23:48] <HazRPG> yes!
[23:48] <HazRPG> one out of 2 works :D!
[23:48] <HazRPG> although, tis a shame... cos I'd rather had the first one working!
[23:49] <hamitron> use for spares?
[23:49] <JamesTait> CPC464 FTW!
[23:49] <hamitron> tomorrow I am going to say i3 ftw
[23:49] <hamitron> :)
[23:49]  * JamesTait goes back to lurking in the shadows.
[23:49] <PalaPad> They has the nasty tape decks iirc
[23:49] <ZoeR> yeah
[23:50] <ZoeR> CPC464 = Read Error B = AAAAAAAAARGH!
[23:50] <PalaPad> Great for jet set willy 2 though
[23:50] <zleap> yeah
[23:50] <zleap> i have the ms dos port of that
[23:50] <HazRPG> hmm, is the screen meant to go a funny colour when you press play :/
[23:50] <Nafallo> JamesTait: beauty and beast style?
[23:50] <zleap> well wasn't jet set will 2 just jet set willy 1 but bigger
[23:50] <HazRPG> oh, apparently it does
[23:50] <JamesTait> Nafallo: something like that. :)
[23:50] <hamitron> HazRPG: probably
[23:50] <Nafallo> ♥
[23:51] <HazRPG> time for some bionic granny apparently
[23:51] <Nafallo> good movie, that is.
[23:51] <zleap> as latter was for the 48k speccy rather than the 16k speccy
[23:51] <PalaPad> Wasn't locoscript available for the cpc464 as well?
[23:51] <zleap> not sure
[23:51] <ZoeR> Not sure. They had Locomotive BASIC though
[23:51]  * Nafallo considers ice cream
[23:51] <zleap> i have a book with a basic to forth interpreter as a program
[23:51] <hamitron> does stuff for the 16k speccy run in 48k mode?
[23:51] <zleap> well in effect it had 32k useable memory
[23:52] <zleap> as 16k was rom,  16k was system and the rest was for prpgrams (binary)
[23:52] <zleap> as the upper address space was something like 32768 - 65535 or 8000h to FFFFFF hex
[23:52] <zleap> ffff hex sorry
[23:53] <zleap> so yeah you can run 16k programs on the 48k
[23:53] <hamitron> I never spent much time on mine
[23:53] <hamitron> got it 2nd hand, but had a brand new PC
[23:53] <zleap> ah
[23:54] <zleap> you can get .tap (tape) files so can emulate it loading i real time
[23:54] <hamitron> iirc, it has 4 options on opening screen
[23:54]  * PalaPad got a free room upgrade and a free business class seat on his flight on his trip this week :)
[23:54] <zleap> so set it going, go make a drink come back and its loaded
[23:54] <hamitron> loader, calc, 48k something and something else
[23:54] <zleap> ah
[23:54] <zleap> ok the 128k had that
[23:54] <hamitron> yeh
[23:55] <hamitron> I also have an older ZX, but no tape device for it
[23:55] <hamitron> so never tried it
[23:55] <zleap> it was like the f16 program, you had to load side 2 on the 48k when you wanted to do a mission, but with the 128k speccy you could load the whole game in,  same for road runner game
[23:56] <zleap> tape decks are cheap
[23:56] <zleap> google world of spectrum
[23:56] <zleap> they still make games for the speccy
[23:56] <hamitron> no point when I have a 128k +2
[23:56] <hamitron> :)
[23:56] <PalaPad> My brother in law was a specie game developer
[23:56] <PalaPad> Speccy
[23:56] <hamitron> internal tape drive is enough for me
[23:57] <hamitron> I'd rather look at what else can be plugged in
[23:57] <hamitron> and how to use it properly
[23:57] <hamitron> :)
[23:57] <zleap> i had a +d drive
[23:57] <zleap> 720k floppy disks
[23:57] <hamitron> but my new comp upgrade tomorrow will distract me again no doubt
[23:58] <zleap> 16 speccy games or 15 + a game menu
[23:59] <hamitron> ZX Spectrum+ is my other one