/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/11/#ubuntu-uk.txt

zleap yay 32768 is indeed 8000 h (man that is too geeky)00:00
zleapmine is in a carry case\, i think it still works00:00
hamitroncarry case?00:02
zleapyeah00:02
HazRPGokay... its official... original owner of this had some creepy games00:02
hamitronI got the orig box for the +200:02
zleapspeccy fits in it along with a rectangluar tape drive space for the psu00:03
hamitronnice00:03
zleapor footwarmer00:03
zleapand of course the audio leads00:03
zleapi have my original recipt somewhere00:03
zleapor did have00:03
hamitronmy fav game was Millionaire00:03
hamitron:)00:03
zleapi liked chaos : battle of wizards00:03
zleapspent hours playing that00:03
hamitronanyways00:04
hamitronSTOP00:04
zleapwho needs c&c when you can conjour up a gooey blob to wipe out your enemy00:04
hamitronif you get me into this too much, my new comp parts will be arriving and staying in the box00:04
zleaplol00:04
zleapor you will install linux and a speccy emulator and have a very expensive 8 bit computer00:05
hamitronand if I do that with a speccy... the shame00:05
hamitronhell no00:05
zleaplol00:05
hamitronI love orig hardware00:05
hamitron:)00:05
zleapme too,00:05
hamitronit is all part of the experience00:05
zleapi managed to use norton utils once to change part of a +d disk so it could be read on a PC00:05
zleapdisk editor00:06
HazRPGhamitron: man, so gutted the c64 doesn't work - but the c64c does :(00:09
HazRPGwish it was the other way round00:09
HazRPGc64c is just a c128 but in a different package00:09
hamitron:/00:11
zleapah yeah the play ground arguments speccy vs c6400:11
HazRPG:P00:11
hamitronI had a NES00:11
hamitron;)00:11
zleapah00:11
HazRPGI had a mastersystem00:11
zleapnever really got in to consoles00:12
HazRPGand atari before that00:12
zleapwent from a speccy to a pc with dos and windows 3.100:12
HazRPG:P00:12
hamitronmy parents really weren't into the idea of a comp at home, until the 586 cpu was around00:12
zleapa pentiums00:12
PalaPadVic20 ftw00:12
hamitronuntil the pentium 2 was out, I only had 1 hour per day on it too00:13
hamitron;)00:13
HazRPGman, I thought my mz-721 was bad for loading...00:13
hamitronI think that is why the speccy never really impressed me00:13
zleap5 mins and it crashes just as the game loads00:14
hamitron1 hour to play, and street fighter 2 used to take over 10 mins to try loading00:14
zleaplol00:14
hamitronand it often never started00:14
zleapsome games were cool though00:14
hamitronyeh, I had a simple snooker game00:14
zleapi have 4 nations rugby somewhere00:15
zleaplol00:15
hamitron:))00:15
zleaploading up the footy manager games is also interesting00:15
hamitronI had one on the PC, so never tried00:15
zleapblast from the past,  spurs centre forward gary lineker00:15
zleapor what ever position he played00:15
hamitronI tried a cricket manager game00:16
zleapthose games would confuse most kids these days,  why are man u in division 100:16
zleapoh there is no prem league00:16
hamitronbut I had a SNES with a better cricket game00:16
zleapi played pong back in ther very early 80's00:16
zleapatari games console thing00:17
hamitron:)00:17
PalaPadAtari 1600?00:17
zleapsomething like that00:17
hamitronit was late 80s when I saw my first console/comp00:17
zleapit had a small controller with a control knob on it00:17
PalaPadWasn't there a 2700 too?00:18
zleapto move the bat up / down00:18
zleapnot sure00:18
PalaPadYeah the first one had paddles00:18
zleap2700 was the hacker group wasn't it00:18
PalaPadSecond one had those analog joysticks with the square base and red button00:18
zleapas 2700 was the carrier frequency for the phone line or something00:18
zleapi had one of those for the speccy00:18
HazRPGoh well, the loader song is good on this game00:19
zleapi found a program that made my speccy play hey jude,  i had to hack it to make it play properly00:19
PalaPadYou can buy them now with mame inside and plugnit straight into tv lol00:19
PalaPadThose old joysticks00:19
zleapcool00:19
PalaPadSaw some for sale last Xmas00:19
zleapthat would be good at our after school club00:19
HazRPGstill think it would be better on an actual c64 SID 6581 :(00:19
zleapwe had a sega up till last year,  we know have a dodgy xbox and a ps200:20
PalaPadWe just have a wii00:20
zleapactually can the ps2 play dvd's00:20
PalaPadFor my son00:20
zleapwe have a wii in the classroom00:20
HazRPGzleap: yeah the ps2 can play dvd's :)00:20
zleapcool00:20
HazRPGall the games are on a dvd disc ;)00:21
zleapi gave em a copy of big buck bunny00:21
zleapthing is kids + cd's don'tr really mix,  cds get scratched easy00:22
zleapwhere as tapes are far more robust00:22
PalaPadThe only computer worth having back then was the BBC cos you could get Elite and Virus which were arguably 2 of the best game concepts ever00:22
zleapthey had those on the speccy00:23
zleapor i have a demo of virus somewhere00:23
PalaPadI am still addicted to Elite to this day00:23
ZoeRThey had both on the CPC00:23
ZoeRI still play Elite too00:23
PalaPadYeah but elite was best on the BBC00:23
PalaPadUntil it was released for the Atari ST00:23
zleapits like the pc versionof  jet set willy, you can set it in to be like the spectrum, c64 and a few other versions00:24
zleapso it plays soujnd accordingly00:24
PalaPadI still remember playing Horace goes skiing and Ghostbusters on the old speccy00:25
zleapyay i liked that too00:25
PalaPadOh and frogger00:25
zleapambulance fee $1000:26
zleapyou then run out of mone y and it says sorry no money no ski00:26
zleapambulance fee is annoying when you get run over by an ambulance00:26
zleapwhat about horace and the spiders00:26
PalaPadNever played that00:26
zleapand hungary horrace (3rd game) the first two came with the speccy00:27
PalaPadI never had a computer we were poor00:27
PalaPadMy friend had the specie00:27
PalaPadSpeccy00:27
PalaPadI never owned a computer until my Atari ST in 199000:27
zleapouch00:27
zleapi had a speccy in 198600:27
zleapbefore that didn't really have any computer00:28
PalaPadI was using computers from the early 80s but didn't own my own00:28
zleapi even did gcse course work on a speccy if I had to type it00:28
hamitronhad?00:28
zleapback then if you typed course wrk you had to hand in written scripts too, (so they knew it was your work)00:29
zleapso written draft and you could type it up if you wanted00:29
PalaPadMy gcse course work was done on our schools Amstrad CPW machine00:29
zleapi remember looking at the dooms day disk back when i was in year 9 it was a large lp size cdrom type disk00:30
PalaPadAnd printed with a daisy wheel printer00:30
PalaPadDamn those things were noisy00:30
hamitronright, need coffee, brb00:30
zleapdot matrus here,00:30
PalaPadZleap, probably00:30
PalaPadY laserdisc00:30
zleapi hacked tasword two so it would save to +d disk00:30
zleapyeah laser disk00:30
zleapthat was attached to a bbc archemedies or perhaps a later one than that00:31
PalaPadThat's a bit late for the laserdisc00:31
zleapactually i have my cousins user guide to that here,  (acorn computer)00:31
PalaPadArchimedes was late 80s00:31
zleapwell the later one then00:31
zleapoddly they allowewd  1 year 9 and 2 year 7 lose on it unsupervised00:32
zleapnever do that these days would they00:32
PalaPadThese days kids smart phones are more powerful than the stuff we were using back then00:33
zleapyeah00:33
zleapbut back ten we could write software00:33
PalaPadMy a significant magnitude00:33
zleapand had the tools to do cool stuff like that00:33
PalaPadBy00:33
zleapbye00:34
PalaPadNo by as in by00:34
PalaPadCorrecting my typo lol00:34
zleapoh sorry00:34
PalaPadI typed my instead of by00:34
PalaPadStill getting used tot the iPad touchscreen00:34
zleapi get ya00:34
ZoeRwell i suppose i should head off00:36
ZoeRgoodnight, all00:36
zleapnite, i am of soon too00:38
PalaPadNite00:39
zleapnite00:39
PalaPadI have work to do still, gonna be a late night00:39
hamitron:/00:39
PalaPadHave to do a debate at Oxford in 4 days and need to prep for it00:40
zleapah00:40
zleapsounds good00:40
directhexno you don't!00:40
hamitrondon't need to prep?00:40
hamitron;)00:40
PalaPadA debate with John Aristotle Phillips on data mining00:41
PalaPadIt is gonna be a ball ache00:41
hamitron:/00:41
directhexhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y00:42
hamitronhmmm00:42
PalaPadHe owns one of the biggest gov data mining corps in the US and is a complete ass00:42
hamitronI have to decide what comp I want as the 3rd one on my desk :/00:42
PalaPadThen I have to give a 1 hour keynote at Brunel 2 days later00:43
hamitronK6-2 500mhz or 3.4ghz pentiumd00:43
PalaPadNot a fun week00:43
hamitrontempted to go with the k6-200:43
hamitron:)00:44
HazRPGhmm, I don't think I like the SID 8580 :(00:44
PalaPadBrb00:45
HazRPGdoesn't sound as nice as the SID 658100:45
hamitronHazRPG: you can learn on what you got, so you know more for when you buy another :)00:45
HazRPG... why did the original c64 have to be the broked one :(00:45
HazRPGhamitron: this is true, however I could risk it and try and mod the c64c to accept the c64 SID chip... assuming the chip isn't dead00:46
HazRPGI mean, its only a voltage change that's needed00:46
hamitronI'd just keep the broken one for spares00:46
hamitronand buy another00:46
HazRPGone needs 12v the other needs 5v... so shouldn't be too hard to change00:46
HazRPGhamitron: I could attempt to try and fix the other one00:47
hamitronthat also00:47
hamitronbut is it worth it?00:47
HazRPGI mean it lights up... so its getting power00:47
HazRPGthe only thing is its not giving power to the tape drive... nor giving any video00:47
HazRPGso it could just be a blown capacitor somewhere00:47
hamitronor connectors pin come lose00:48
HazRPGI'd say it was worth it for getting an original c64 back to life :P00:48
HazRPGhamitron: good point!00:48
hamitronI've seen that more than blown capacitors00:48
hamitron;)00:48
hamitrona lot of people are not careful with their stuff00:49
HazRPGhamitron: ... I just realised something (and I did stop it earlier when I took photos, I just completely forgot about it)00:51
HazRPGthere's something missing I think!00:51
HazRPGhamitron: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/I8ASWYaaPADHB0iH0Bitug?feat=directlink00:52
HazRPGthat looks like a fuse socket00:52
HazRPGit is... isn't it!00:53
HazRPGits got a missing fuse!00:53
HazRPGwhy would it have a fuse taken out of it S:00:54
hamitronmaybe someone took it out to try get a replacement?00:54
hamitronif it had blown00:54
HazRPGthat would be amusing00:54
HazRPGconsidering he claims its been in his attic for 12 years00:55
hamitronalso worth checking it indeed has a fuse there for normal use00:55
HazRPGhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64Cmotherboard.jpg ;)00:55
HazRPGhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64motherboard.jpg <==00:55
HazRPGboth have fuses in them00:56
hamitronany idea what rating it is?00:56
HazRPGgoogling for it now00:56
HazRPGI have a feeling these fuses are going to be a nightmare to find00:56
hamitronna00:56
hamitronthere will be some similar part somewhere00:57
hamitronthe main problem could be finding the specs00:57
hamitronalso, remember the fuse could of blown for a reason ;)00:57
hamitronit could also have just fallen out?00:58
directhexbloop00:58
hamitronbloop?00:58
HazRPGhmm, according to the guy he said they both went in the attic as working00:59
HazRPGI have a feeling someone might have gone it to nick the fuse out of it to replace something else00:59
HazRPGwhat's the worst that could happen if I put in a new new fuse... the new fuse goes pop?00:59
hamitron79p for a fuse would be nice :)01:00
hamitronif there is a fault, that is what the fuse is for01:00
hamitron;)01:00
HazRPGexactly :)01:01
hamitronis it same size as one from a plug?01:01
hamitronor smaller?01:01
HazRPGbigger >_<01:01
hamitronoh01:01
HazRPGabout 2-3 inches01:01
hamitroninches?01:01
hamitron:-o01:01
HazRPGabout 1cm wide01:02
HazRPGlike I said, this is going to be impossible to find a replacement for01:02
hamitronnot this one then? http://www.rewind-bits.co.uk/250v-1-5a-fuse-commodore-64.html01:02
Jerkmanhey all01:02
hamitronhi jerk01:02
HazRPGI'll let you know when my browser has caught up01:03
HazRPG(140 tabs now >_<)01:03
hamitronHazRPG: fool :)01:03
HazRPGall of which are "to be read later" tabs01:03
hamitronI am teaching myself to not do that01:03
hamitronyeh01:03
Jerkmananyone know of  Good console based multiplayer game? some king of text rpg..01:03
PalaPadYou sound like me HazRPG lol01:04
HazRPGPalaPad: hehe01:04
PalaPadI always seem to have 80+ tabs open01:04
HazRPGsame01:04
PalaPadI have to dona lot of reading for my work01:04
PalaPadDo a01:05
HazRPGtoday and yesterday I got overly excited over my c64 coming in01:05
HazRPGso I've got loads of tabs open with different mods and stuff I'd like to try out01:05
PalaPadTry and find Tarzan goes ape01:05
PalaPadOr big nose in the USA01:05
HazRPGhamitron: browser caught up... seems like that could be the job01:05
Jerkmani can writw c64 asm ;)01:05
hamitronHazRPG: it is physically smaller than you said01:06
HazRPGhamitron: yeah I just measured it, and its more like 1.5 inches01:06
HazRPGI was going based off my finger01:07
PalaPadLoo can't miss that01:07
hamitrondamn man01:07
hamitronyou seriously overestimated01:07
hamitron;)01:07
HazRPGit was 2 segments, which I always thought was inches01:07
PalaPadAnaconda 3 on syfy on Sunday lol01:07
HazRPGJerkman: nice :)01:07
* hamitron reminds himself not to ask HazRPG to measure something01:07
HazRPGhamitron: I was only .5-1 inch off lol01:08
PalaPadI need to send my missus to the HazRPG school of measuring lol01:08
hamitronHazRPG: another way to put it is guessing double the actual value01:09
hamitron;)01:09
HazRPGhamitron: lol01:10
HazRPGPalaPad: lol, what?01:10
hamitronyou someone who claims to have a 16 inch long third leg?01:10
hamitron;D01:10
PalaPadHahaha01:10
PalaPadI couldn't possibly comment on such matters01:11
HazRPGhamitron: nah, my mates do that when they try to play *wing man* for me01:11
HazRPGworks though, shockingly - mainly because it you over exaggerate (or under exaggerate), they get curious01:12
* PalaPad $issed of a director general in the eu commission yesterday 01:12
HazRPGwomen are funny that way xD01:12
HazRPGPalaPad: who?01:13
* hamitron congrats PalaPad01:13
hamitron:)01:13
PalaPadA guy Robert Madelin01:13
PalaPadhttps://www.privacyinternational.org/blog/ecinfso-captured-industry01:13
HazRPGone of my friends is a nutter though, he's actually said he had ED to someone... and she chased him for months trying to see if she could fix him xD01:14
HazRPGtelling him he could "practice" on her01:14
HazRPGbut we'll leave that there xD01:15
hamitronED?01:16
HazRPGhamitron: I might chase the ebay guy up and see if he can remember why a fuse might have been taken out01:16
hamitronHazRPG: I would just buy a fuse01:16
HazRPGhamitron: two guesses, your first is mickey mouse01:16
hamitronor try a 1A fuse from a plug01:16
hamitronor you could just put a nail across it for testing01:17
hamitron;)01:17
HazRPGthat would be insane!01:17
HazRPGactually I've used tin foil before xD01:17
hamitronI never have01:17
hamitronI'd use a 1A fuse01:17
hamitron;)01:17
HazRPGwrap around fuse... away you go - jobs a good en'01:17
HazRPGonly ever done that with silly battery powered toys01:18
HazRPGthe fuse would only blow because it was the most used thing01:18
hamitrondoes the C64 have mains going into it?01:18
hamitronor a transformer01:18
HazRPGhamitron: it has a transformer *urrraaarrrrreeeeehhhh*01:19
PalaPadHuge block of a transformer iirc01:19
hamitrononly real risk is blowing up tranformer then01:19
PalaPadIn that lovely c64 case colour01:19
hamitronor some part of the c6401:20
HazRPGPalaPad: yeah, massive power brick01:20
hamitronjust steal a 1A fuse from a lamp or something01:20
hamitron;)01:20
HazRPGhamitron: might be too small... but I'll have a look round01:21
shaunothat was about normal.  my amiga's power brick is quite a bit bigger than most PC psu's01:21
hamitronsmall is fine01:21
hamitronit would just blow and leave you none the wiser01:21
HazRPG(some of the lamps I've got a A3)01:21
hamitron3A is no good01:21
hamitron:/01:21
HazRPGwell I know that ;)01:21
shaunoalways start small with fuses.  the smallest you can get away with is the perfect fuse01:21
HazRPGI'm not thick, just point out the obvious01:21
hamitronHazRPG: I like to make it clear01:22
hamitronor attempt to01:22
hamitron:)01:22
HazRPGshauno: ah, welcome :)01:22
HazRPGshauno: seurs?01:22
HazRPGshauno: seen my pictures*?01:22
shauno?01:22
shaunowow, that was quite the typo01:22
HazRPGshauno: pc's lagging out because I have 150 tabs open now01:22
shaunoah01:23
hamitrongrrr01:23
hamitronhttp://www.maplin.co.uk/solar-powered-12v-1.5w-battery-trickle-charger-98358?ordercode=L58BF&C=Email-Newsletter&U=Camping%20and%20Caravanning-L58BF&T=468531&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=L58BF&utm_campaign=Camping%20and%20Caravanning01:23
hamitrontempted01:23
hamitron:/01:23
shaunoeh, I wouldn't01:24
hamitronwhy? ;/01:24
shaunoatlantic coast of ireland; charging the batteries would be a yearly event :)01:25
hamitron:))01:25
hamitronI wouldn't use it for its proper use01:25
hamitronI got a trickle charger that runs off mains01:25
hamitronthis would be more something to mess with01:25
HazRPGhmm apparently it was vlc that was the culprit - not my tabs01:32
HazRPGit was taking up 5GB of memory, and 3GB of swap >_<01:32
shaunoburn it!01:33
HazRPGI did!01:33
hamitron:)01:33
HazRPGI killed it!01:33
HazRPGI killed it with fire!01:33
HazRPGI really like htop01:33
hamitronviolence is not tolerated in this channel ;/01:33
HazRPGseems to work better than system monitor01:34
hamitrontomorrow I will have 8gb ram and not care01:34
HazRPGhamitron: but OCD is :P01:34
hamitron:)01:34
HazRPGhamitron: hey, I've got 6GB :(01:34
hamitronlga 1366?01:34
HazRPGhamitron: also, you will when programs start abusing it!01:35
HazRPGLGA136601:35
HazRPGyes01:35
HazRPGi7-93001:35
hamitronmine will only be a i3-550 3.2ghz01:35
HazRPG8 sweet virtual cores (or 4 actual)01:35
hamitronbut that is an upgrade for me01:36
hamitron:)01:36
HazRPG8GB! Most definitely!01:36
hamitronthe cpu will be too01:36
HazRPGthat and the i3's and i7's pretty much work at the same speed anyways01:36
hamitronon a 2.2ghz core2 duo01:36
hamitron800mhz fsb!01:36
HazRPGyeah core 2 duo's are still all the range!01:36
hamitron:(01:36
hamitronI was torn between the i7 and i301:37
* HazRPG still likes his core 2 duo 3.2GHz01:37
HazRPGhamitron: can always move up to i7 later ;)01:37
hamitronended up going i3 to get the on chip graphics01:38
hamitronna01:38
hamitronITX baby!01:38
hamitronwell, mini-ITX01:38
hamitronI think my graphics card is the same size01:38
hamitron:/01:38
hamitronbut only using it for gaming for a while01:39
hamitronwaiting till there is a cpu I want for a monster comp01:39
hamitronless heat and some performance01:39
hamitron:)01:39
hamitronI really don't want anything more than 95W TDP01:40
hamitronless hopefully01:40
hamitroniirc, i3 first gen is 72/73W?01:41
hamitronanyways01:45
hamitronoff to bed01:45
hamitrono/01:45
HazRPGhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lnX8D7hqSc \o/01:45
HazRPGhamitron: awww :(01:45
HazRPGyeah i3 should be like 72W01:46
hamitronis that the same game as on the NES?01:46
HazRPGerr... possibly?01:46
hamitronjust looked, no01:47
hamitron:)01:47
hamitronwas a platform side scrolling thing01:47
HazRPGsame difference :P01:47
HazRPGI wonder if there's a way to get games recorded to tape somehow... from my normal PC01:48
HazRPGdude!01:49
hamitronvhs style?01:49
HazRPGI knew there was a reason I hated tape drives :/01:49
hamitronbtw, it is the same game01:49
hamitron:D01:49
hamitrongoogle returned some screens from a pc game01:49
HazRPGbloody thing just ate my game >_<01:49
hamitron:/01:50
HazRPGand pens aren't made the way they use to be so that I can wind it back up again >_<01:50
HazRPGsilly smooth edged pens!01:50
HazRPGwhere's a biro or a bic when ya need one :/01:51
* hamitron has 8 on his desk01:51
hamitron;)01:51
hamitronI keep borrowing them from my family01:51
hamitronand they all collect at my desk01:52
HazRPGhehe01:52
hamitrondesk is on 2nd floor, so never bother running upstairs for a pen01:52
HazRPGlooks like I'm doing it old school, tip of the finger style then >_<01:52
hamitronanyways01:53
hamitronnn o/01:53
HazRPGneed to get me some smokes02:09
HazRPGbrb02:09
HazRPGshauno: wow, ocean made some big games didn't they...02:20
HazRPGgame still hasn't loaded and I set it off before I left02:20
* HazRPG having fun with his c64 :D03:08
HazRPGwhat's everyone up to this evening/morning?04:34
shaunowe're sleeping man.  it's 5am.04:54
HazRPGclearly your not sleeping though :P04:57
shaunoyes I am!04:57
HazRPGxD04:57
* HazRPG pokes a "sleeping" shauno to wake him up04:58
shaunotrying to find out why my mail client claims my server is missing :(04:59
HazRPGDNS problems maybe?04:59
HazRPGI've been suffering from that recently04:59
shaunoI think I need to reboot my router04:59
HazRPGtry and ping via a ping website05:00
shauno(as stupidly unconnected as that sounds)05:00
HazRPGsee if that sheds some light05:00
HazRPGhmm, restarting router tends to fix DNS issues for me05:00
HazRPGsince there is no way of clearing cache05:00
HazRPGor other alternative way rather*05:00
shaunohm.  I don't think it's my end05:02
HazRPGhow'd ya figure?05:03
shaunossh -6 mail times out, ssh -4 doesn't05:03
HazRPGdon't know what -6 is, but yes05:04
HazRPG*nods and agrees*05:04
shaunotells ssh to prefer ipv4 or 605:04
HazRPGah05:04
HazRPGguessing you use ipv6 then?05:04
HazRPGmight be your broker that's causing the issue?05:05
HazRPGor your server isn't getting an ipv6?05:05
shaunolooks like my tunnel's dead, but for some reason my email client isn't reverting to 4 when 6 isn't reachable05:05
HazRPGguessing it should be then... random05:11
HazRPGmust be a config issue05:12
shaunoheh, could you do me a favor?  on http://www.tunnelbroker.net/status.php  are either london or paris marked red?05:21
shaunoit won't load for me.  it'll load from my vps, but green/red doesn't mean jack squat in elinks05:21
shaunonm, my phone can reach it :)  and it is them.  which is sweet.  means I can ignore it & it'll go away05:26
Azelphurhmm minecrafty people, I went to the nether, It's scary and I can't figure out how to get out05:26
Azelphursave me D:05:26
HazRPGshauno: paris is05:26
HazRPGshauno: red I mean05:26
HazRPGAzelphur: haven't tried nether yet!05:27
Azelphurhaha05:27
* HazRPG hugs Azelphur regardless05:27
Azelphurit has like scary reversed baby sounds D:05:28
HazRPGshauno: is it bad that I've download reSID and I'm attempting to code something with it?05:28
shaunoAzelphur: you should be able to use the same portal you went in thru05:29
shaunoif you can't find it .. maybe today is a good day to die ;)05:29
Azelphuryea, I came through and I havn't moved...there is no portal D:05:30
Azelphurit was a tarp D:05:30
shaunohah.  yeah.  it's not meant to do that :)05:30
Azelphurhaha yea, it's a bug in the SMP plugin05:32
HazRPGhmm... I can see why I never went both feet first into programming for linux05:32
HazRPGI see's the source... but I don't know what to do with said source!05:32
HazRPGor even which one's I need to include... to get it to work05:33
HazRPGor should I just compile, then link said compiled file...05:33
* HazRPG googles how to use reSID05:33
shaunoAzelphur: if you're desperate, could take a hex editor to your save file ;)05:34
shaunoactually, no, nm that.  by hand I can flip dimension, but can't promise you'll be located anywhere sane.   just go die :p05:36
Azelphurhaha05:37
AzelphurI'm more interested in why on earth the plugin has no way of you actually getting out again05:37
Azelphurhttp://forums.bukkit.org/threads/tp-fun-nethergate-v0-53-just-like-single-player-478-527.3430/page-24#post-12125205:37
shaunoahh05:38
shaunopretty sure bukkit has a console command to change world, but no idea what it is :)05:40
shaunohaven't played with bukkit yet.  having enough fun learning how to pull the region files apart in regular mc :)05:41
shaunotrying to get to the stage where I can import & export objects from the map files, without needing some java monstrosity  (or a UI at all ...)05:42
shaunoexport's nearly working, but I can't seem to output the same format everyone else uses.  import's pretty pointless to even try until I can get that nailed down05:43
Azelphurhehe :P05:44
shaunothe .schematic files everyone else uses are a slight modification of a very old world save format (not 1.2's or 1.3's).05:46
shaunoso after all that work figuring out how to manipulate the world saves, I can't reuse that for output :(05:46
HazRPG:(05:46
shauno(I can turn the sky into lava tho.  could be useful one day)05:47
Azelphurhaha05:48
* Azelphur wanders off to sleep05:48
HazRPGI seriously need to close some tabs05:49
HazRPGI have 202 now >_<05:49
HazRPGaccording to my tab count extension05:49
shaunothat's wrong in so many ways05:49
shaunoI think if you habitually use more tabs than fit on a screen's width, the solution isn't an addon to manage them.  it's rehab.  cold turkey.  no tabs at all until your head is fixed :D05:50
HazRPGheh, I have 3 windows open - otherwise I would be suffering from tab-overflow xD05:51
shaunonothing but cold hard IE6 until you repent :D05:51
HazRPGwould be hard considering I run ubuntu ;)05:52
shaunonot that hard :)05:52
HazRPGit would be sacrilege!05:52
shaunoI believe ie4linux is still going, somewhat05:52
* MartijnVdS has 3 tabs open05:52
HazRPGalso, I have roughly 400+ tabs if you include the ones stored in my session manager addon >_<05:52
MartijnVdSMail, reddit, {twitter|facebook} :)05:52
shaunoI don't have a browser open atm :)05:53
MartijnVdSHazRPG: I'd like to tell you about this cool feature browsers have called "bookmarks"05:53
MartijnVdS;)05:53
HazRPGMartijnVdS: ... don't get me started, my bookmarks are already flooded too05:53
MartijnVdSHazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding05:54
shaunomy solution is google.05:54
shaunoif I found it, I can find it again.  next time I need it, I'll google it and pull it back up05:54
MartijnVdSshauno: indeed. google or it wasn't important enough :)05:54
HazRPGI have them all nested within these main folders: Articles, Freelance, Games, Music, Projects, Shops, Software, Videos, Websites, University, Home, Hosts, RSS05:54
shaunoI only have 4Gb of ram.  the internet won't fit in it.  so I'll leave it where I found it :)05:55
HazRPGsome sites are hard to find under google05:55
MartijnVdSHazRPG: sure, bookmark those few05:55
HazRPGthose are the ones bookmarked...05:55
MartijnVdSI use my bookmark bar for often-used sites.. for the rest there's google or "add bookmark" maybe once a month05:55
MartijnVdSHazRPG: browse the web less ;) go program somethine05:56
MartijnVdSg*05:56
HazRPGthis is the reason I have all these tabs/bookmarks!05:56
MartijnVdSHazRPG: What happens when you close them?05:56
MartijnVdS(the tabs, let's start easy :))05:57
HazRPGsometimes I see something and think "I'll read that later" and then get on with something... then eventually get back to them05:57
MartijnVdSSounds like ADD :)05:57
HazRPGoh, I know I do!05:57
shaunoif you've got 400 tabs, you're not getting back to them.  your workflow has a leak.05:58
HazRPGnot proven via doctors etc... but tis fact :P05:58
MartijnVdSa memory leak05:58
HazRPGshauno: ironically I always do, and will eventually end up with back to my basic 405:58
MartijnVdSdear compiz, please let me focus my windows THANK YOU05:58
* MartijnVdS shouts at natty05:58
HazRPG:P05:58
HazRPGspeaking of which, I have about 10 tabs I can now close05:59
MartijnVdSgood way to keep your tab count low05:59
MartijnVdSreboot05:59
shaunoheh, don't get me started on natty05:59
shaunowindows 7 does a better job of degrading to a non-3d accel VM.06:01
HazRPGMartijnVdS: pointless, opening browser will just re-open tabs due to my06:01
MartijnVdSoh wow06:01
HazRPGsetting I put in06:02
MartijnVdSwindow snapping works again06:02
MartijnVdSExcept it snaps the drop shadow instead of the window06:02
MartijnVdS*facepalm*06:02
HazRPGMartijnVdS: xD06:02
shaunoI think the border is larger than is visible?  something to do with crazy resize handles?06:02
MartijnVdS(it won't stack two windows together, only with some room between them)06:02
shaunoif I understand it right, there's actually something in that 'room'.  just not visible06:03
MartijnVdSannoying :)06:03
shauno(to explain the behaviour, not excuse it)06:03
MartijnVdSespecially as I'm using "gnome-classic"06:04
MartijnVdS(can't stand the dock on the left.. it has to be on the right or nowhere)06:04
MartijnVdSah06:05
MartijnVdSthe focus bug I was seeing06:05
MartijnVdS= bug 72301406:05
lubotu3Launchpad bug 723014 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "New window tracking system breaks in the case where windows try to restack relative to destroyed windows that were never mapped" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72301406:05
shaunoit's been a fun few years, but I think I'm going back to debian next time I have to rebuild06:05
MartijnVdSI've been considering it06:06
MartijnVdSif just for the sane Gnome06:06
shaunoon my laptop, VMs don't have 3d accel, so they've destroyed the desktop06:06
shaunoon my servers, they've decided that -server kernels for 32bit aren't worth the effort06:06
shaunoso we get -generic06:06
shaunoright now, it feels like ubuntu-desktop doesn't give an $expletive about you if you're not on a netbook06:07
shaunoand ubuntu-server doesn't care if you're not on amazon06:07
shaunothey're designing for the users they want, not the users they've got :(06:08
shauno</rant>06:11
MartijnVdSooh! Body Browser now works on Intel graphics (in chromium) as well06:15
MartijnVdSsome things DO improve :)06:15
MartijnVdShttp://bodybrowser.googlelabs.com/06:16
Myrttibweep.06:28
knightwisemorning everyone06:34
HazRPGtemes? http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/susan_blackmore_on_memes_and_temes.html06:40
AlanBellmorning all06:54
MartijnVdSHazRPG: nice idea :)07:02
knightwiseYES ! :) i have Gpodder under my power :)07:03
knightwisegpo command line interface does the things i need it to do07:04
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Isn't it just, I really like the TED site :)07:06
HazRPGscience... it works...!07:06
MartijnVdSHazRPG: yes, but I need to work07:06
MartijnVdSHazRPG: :|07:07
HazRPG:P07:07
HazRPGmorning AlanBell & knightwise07:07
knightwiseah yes , i need to subscribe to some ted talks too07:07
knightwisehey HazRPG , AlanBell07:07
knightwisecrud07:31
knightwisejapanese tsunamy http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/07:31
MartijnVdSdvb://"Al Jazeera English"07:31
MartijnVdS;)07:31
=== imexil1 is now known as imexil
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Japan Tsunami: What To Do If It Affects You - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/03/11/japan-tsunami-what-to-do-if-it-affects-you/08:07
TheOpenSourcererping czajkowski08:21
DJonesMorning all08:23
knightwisemorning everyone TheOpenSourcerer , DJones08:23
DJonesHi knightwise08:23
knightwisehow are you guyz today08:24
knightwiseaside from "happy we are not in Japan"08:25
DJonesNot bad thanks, just reading up on pwn2own competition08:28
knightwiseworking on an docu-cast episode where i document the podcatching setup i have made08:31
knightwisescript i've been working on and all that08:31
hoovermornin all!08:40
screen-xmorning :)08:48
danfishmorning08:56
knightwisemorning danfish08:56
danfishhmm. Monit is telling me when this python script is running, and it's telling me when it's crashed, but doesn't want to restart it :(08:57
danfishknightwise: 0/08:57
selinuxiumHi all   o/09:00
danfishd'oh - it doesn't want to restart the script because I forgot to tell it to.09:01
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: pong09:01
selinuxium'lo czajkowski09:01
knightwise@knightwise Thanks! My family is okay. I have to survive to listen your podcast! :)09:01
knightwise( My nr 1 listener in Japan tweets he's ok)09:02
czajkowskiselinuxium: hey hey09:02
selinuxiumczajkowski, you good hun?09:02
danfishknightwise: good - looks a bit grim there09:02
czajkowskiaye sleepy but good09:02
czajkowskihad beers last night09:02
czajkowski:d09:02
DJonesczajkowski: Was it a beer night yesterday evening09:03
selinuxiumczajkowski, You? Beer? Really? ;)09:03
DJonestoo slow09:03
* selinuxium had a few cheeky one's himself..09:03
czajkowskiDJones: yup09:03
czajkowskidefinately09:03
czajkowskifound a pub that sold Kriek and Fruli09:03
czajkowski:D09:03
selinuxiumI used to have a 2 pint oversized stein and my local... they would fill it with Hoegarden on my arrival until large blank spaces appeared in my memory....09:04
danfishczajkowski: that's the recipe for a fruity hangover ;)09:05
knightwiseczajkowski: so its paddy's day .. right ?09:05
* knightwise lives about a stonesthrow away from Hoegaarden09:05
selinuxiumknightwise, Really! :)09:05
knightwiseyep09:05
* selinuxium will have to work out freight costs...09:06
knightwiseyou could consider marying a belgian girl09:06
selinuxiumAnybody here like their Metal music?09:06
knightwisemakes import export easier09:06
selinuxiumknightwise, Hmmm... Certainly an idea!09:06
czajkowskiknightwise: yes PADDYS not PATTYS or so help me I may kill people09:06
selinuxiumknightwise, Paddy's is on the 17th...  czajkowski was just warming up..09:07
* knightwise would LOVE to get smakked by czajkowski some day :p09:08
knightwisethis would mean i would be close enough to buy her a hoegaarden or something09:08
knightwisemaybe @ fossdem some day09:08
czajkowskiknightwise: take a ticket and join the queue behind MooDoo09:09
knightwiselol :)09:10
knightwiseis that the "buy beer" or "get smacked" line ?09:10
knightwiseo/ wintellect09:10
wintellecthi knightwise09:11
daubersMorning09:14
wintellecthi daubers09:14
czajkowskipopey: you're missing from over there!09:16
mungojerrymorning all - any (al)pine users in here?09:22
knightwisemungojerry: yep09:23
HazRPGhi all :)09:23
mungojerryknightwise: cool, i have a quiestion...09:23
HazRPGjust been enjoying watching a DIY photo etching PCB video09:24
mungojerryi don't use pine but some of my users like it. on the zimbra mail server we have a Junk folder, but i can't seem to view it in alpine09:24
mungojerryif i try to add it, it already exists..09:24
* knightwise is a novice user of alpine , only hooked it up to his gmail account09:24
mungojerrycan you see the spam folder?09:24
knightwiseso i'm afraind i dont know a lot about the interaction with Gmail09:25
knightwiseholdon , i'll check09:25
selinuxiumalpine??? I really need to hang out more... Feels like I am losing my foo...09:26
* czajkowski hugs selinuxium 09:26
knightwiseselinuxium: i love alpine !09:26
* knightwise whips out his macbook air running 10.10.09:26
gordeveryone says working from home must be so great, but these people do not realise that people working from home have to deal with pets that think your are home all day every weekday to play with them09:28
mungojerrylol09:28
mungojerrymy dog is a lapdog09:29
mungojerrywhen i work from home, she just curls up on the lap...only makes it difficult to move around09:29
knightwisemungojerry: nope , cant see the spam folder on this setup09:30
mungojerryknightwise: think i've found out how to do it...09:30
mungojerryhttp://www.cs.duke.edu/csl/security/secure-email/pine09:30
knightwisemungojerry: you missed your latest viagra order then ?09:31
mungojerry:P09:31
mungojerryit's for my users09:31
knightwisethats what they all say :p09:32
popeymorning all09:36
dauberso/09:36
knightwisemornign popey  !09:36
knightwisehead full of froggs my boy ?09:36
dauberspopey: I've got initial permission to steal a mobile raid for oggcamp (assuming we have a demo unit around at the time)09:37
knightwiseSs09:37
knightwisewrong window09:37
daubersJust need to throw some python together to do the video upload magic \o/09:38
* mungojerry has a life question of the day :P 09:40
MartijnVdSmungojerry: 4209:40
mungojerryfor UK residents :|09:40
mungojerrywhat do the new pension changes mean to SERPS ?09:41
mungojerrytold you it was boring :(09:41
MartijnVdSHow is "42" not the answer? :)09:41
mungojerryMartijnVdS: that's my best answer so far too.09:42
mungojerrythe govt has said everyone will receive a flat rate pension, but years ago we were all told to contract-out of SERPS :S09:44
JamesTaitHappy Friday, everyone! :D09:44
DJonesmungojerry: I wouldn't worry, according to the Mayan's the word is going to end next year anyway, and if that doesn't happen, by the time we all get to retire the economy will have collapsed and money won't exist, everybody will live on a barter basis and grow their own food09:49
DJoness/word/world09:49
screen-xDJones: solid financial advice there09:50
MartijnVdSDJones:optimist :)09:50
mungojerrythat reminds me of a good open source slogan i saw yesterday: https://twitter.com/RickWarren/status/45797195869458432 "Most people ask “What does it cost?”  Wise people ask “What is it worth?"09:50
DJonesI always look on the bright side :)09:50
mungojerryDJones: are you contracted in or out of serps though :P09:50
DJonesmungojerry: I can't rememeber09:52
directhexmungojerry, kids these days ask "is it on the pirate bay?"09:52
popeydaubers: yay09:52
* mungojerry has never been to pirate bay09:52
directhexthere are pirates. arrr09:52
knightwisemungojerry: try this setup , now you can see all the folders http://lusule.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/how-to-7/09:53
Baikonuropen source is often worth the cost09:53
mungojerryand a bit more Baikonur :P09:53
DJonesHP Sauce is definately worth the cost09:54
mungojerryknightwise: sweet, cheers09:54
mungojerrymy local cafe pours cheap brown sauce into HP bottles =-O09:54
directhexi don't like brown sauce09:54
screen-xmungojerry: I'm pretty sure thats standard :(09:55
directhexi will literally sit with an open bottle & sniff, for delightful sauces like reggae reggae ketchup, or heinz twisted ketchup09:55
mungojerrydirecthex: are you single?09:55
directhexmungojerry, no!09:55
screen-xhaha09:55
mungojerryyou surprise me :)09:55
* selinuxium accepts czajkowski 's hugs and goes looking for where he left his foo...09:56
directhexmungojerry, if a bottle of ketchup gets left on my desk, i'll compulsively sniff it until it goes back into the cupboard09:56
* mungojerry backs away from directhex09:56
DJonesmungojerry: don't back away, run....RUN FASTER09:56
mungojerryas long as i'm faster than one of you guys i'm ok09:57
screen-xdirecthex: at least you dont drink it from the bottle.09:57
* mungojerry looks closely at the lurkers09:57
DJonesmungojerry: Thats only when its lions chasing you & your mate09:57
mungojerryi wonder what the speech /lurk rate is09:57
screen-xmungojerry: I saw one of the super people speak the other day!09:57
mungojerry?09:58
DJonesping AlanBell popey http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/ is giving a Not Found error09:59
popeyooo09:59
* popey fix0r3s09:59
screen-xhmm, only super-matt, is there at the mo, there was superastronaut and supercosmonaut..09:59
mungojerrywonders if popey was answering irc pings in the pub09:59
popeyDJones: fixed10:01
* mungojerry LOLs at the teenager slang: bare sick10:01
popeyi wasnt10:01
popeyi am however somewhat hungover10:01
* czajkowski wafts bacon in popey direction to help with the hangover 10:01
mungojerry"Device: /dev/sda, 1 Offline uncorrectable sectors" ..nothing to worry about surely?10:02
MartijnVdSmungojerry: buy a new one just in case10:03
MartijnVdSor make a backup just in case10:03
popeyczajkowski: already had brekkie10:03
popeybacon and egg roll and a hash brown10:03
popeywith lucozade and nurofen10:03
czajkowskioh tis one of them heads10:04
bigcalmMorning peeps :)10:04
* czajkowski makes a mental note not to poke popey today 10:04
czajkowskipopey: any ocassion, or just needed beers10:04
kazadepopey, hangover cure #1 for me is something containing Chilli :)10:12
MartijnVdSkazade: preferably just after drinking, before the hangover hits? :)10:12
kazadethe spice stimulates your stomach to replace the lining you destroyed with alcohol, and stimulates the nervous system. FACT.10:12
kazadeMartijnVdS, indeed, there's a reason we crave spicy food when drunk ;)10:12
MartijnVdSkazade: The spice etends life. The spice expands consciousness. The spice is vital to space travel ;)10:12
mungojerrythat makes mungojerry sad10:13
kazadealso, of course, Banana for Potassium and Caffeine10:13
kazadeoh yeah, and Pineapple, replaces lost sugars10:13
mungojerryor lucozade+paracetomol and sleep10:13
kazadethat's one weird breakfast though :)10:13
mungojerrypineapple + kiwi tend to dissolve my tongue10:14
daubersHmmm... didn't realise btrfs lets you do software raiding as well10:14
MartijnVdSMusic with Dune quotes++ -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOjjnIPwd7c10:14
kazadeI tend to settle on Coffee + Egg sandwich with chilli sauce :)10:14
kazadeand Ibuprofen.. obviously10:14
MartijnVdSkazade: Codeine ;)10:15
kazadeno Aspirin though... if you've already burned away your stomach lining with Alcohol, Aspirin will just make it worse10:15
screen-xlinkedin thinks I might know czajkowski even though I've only just joined, spooky.10:15
kazadeIbuprofen isn't great in that respect10:15
DJoneskazade: MartijnVdS Codiene + paracetamol + diclafenic :)10:16
kazadeDJones, morphine :p10:16
DJoneskazade: I haven't got any of that10:16
* kazade got a tiny bit addicted to morphine after an operation 8 years ago10:17
MartijnVdSDJones: You can't get codeine without a prescription in .nl10:17
=== popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Gord fixed Bug 721447 \o/ | Drugs
DJonespopey: Correction, Medication, not drugs10:18
screen-xpopey: this would a good time to mention your referral codes for some online pharmacies10:18
DJonesMartijnVdS: Same here for the good ones, although you can get the mild low dose in supermarkets10:18
AlanBell#ubuntu-narcotics10:18
popeyhah10:20
mungojerryguys, what will happen to all the apps that require system tray in natty?10:27
kazademungojerry, Wine and Java apps are whitelisted10:27
mungojerryis there a workaround?10:27
kazadeall other apps just won't work10:27
kazadedon't use Unity10:27
* mungojerry sees huge breakage ahead10:27
mungojerryor maybe a systray icon in the launcher10:28
mungojerryto handle all legacy apps10:28
kazadeyeah maybe, but Canonical won't be doing that10:28
kazadesomeone else will have to10:28
* kazade can't understand why they just don't continue to support the old systray for legacy applications 10:29
popeybecause nobody would convert10:29
kazadepopey, if that was true, no one would be using the indicator applet10:29
mungojerryit's a necessity for transition..something will need to be done10:29
mungojerryi wonder how my update-manager notifications will now work also10:30
kazadeScott Richie had to pester to even get Wine apps to be whitelisted10:30
kazadethe original plan was no systray at all10:30
mungojerryi don't use that horrid in-your-face popup window, but use the systray icon10:30
czajkowskihttp://twitpic.com/48f8q7  BACON!10:30
mungojerry"It seems that czajkowski's shift-key is hanging:  1.5% of the time he/she wrote UPPERCASE."10:31
kazademungojerry, you can say goodbye to that unless someone implements an indicator for it10:31
kazade(probably already exists somewhere)10:31
mungojerrykazade: isn't it more likely that users will say goodbye to unity, or ubuntu completly10:31
MartijnVdSupdate-manager is an Ubuntu invention, so it probably works10:31
popeyhehe. czajkowski you have the same phone as me10:31
popeycisco 7941 ip phone10:31
popeymungojerry: no10:32
czajkowskipopey: geek to spot that :)10:32
mungojerrypopey: why not, if i use glipper and loads of other apps using the tray, i'll need to continue using some kind of tray10:32
AlanBellMooDoo brings happiness to the world. 30.7% lines contained smiling faces. :)10:32
AlanBelldavmor2 isn't a sad person either, smiling 27.8% of the time.10:32
mungojerrytherefore gnome classic is the only route i can take?10:33
bigcalm!stats10:33
bigcalmAww :(10:33
czajkowskimungojerry: I'm a She :)10:33
kazademungojerry, it seems to be that Canonical are targeting 90% of users with Unity, the other 10% need to fend for themselves (e.g. use Gnome 2/3)10:33
kazadeif you use systray apps you are in the 10%10:33
AlanBellczajkowski: http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/10:33
mungojerryczajkowski: you should be able to tell ircstats that10:34
MartijnVdSkazade: it could become like kubuntu is now.. gubuntu -- proper Gnome instead of Unity10:34
mungojerryonly 10% of users use a systray app?10:34
bigcalmlubotu3: stats is http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/10:34
* mungojerry hopes that gnome classic does not disappear with the advent of gnome3 & shell10:34
kazademungojerry, I only use Wine/Java systray apps so that's fine for me (although I can't stand the global menu, so arguably I'm in the 10% too)10:34
bigcalmOh, is lubotu3 shared between ubuntu channels?10:35
AlanBellthere can be channel specific factoids10:35
DJonesbigcalm: Yes10:35
AlanBell!popey is one10:35
mungojerryi have a phobia of the global menu10:35
bigcalmI see10:35
AlanBelloops10:35
bigcalm!popey10:35
kazademungojerry, I just think it's a set up that doesn't suit all use cases10:35
lubotu3popey is the UK alternative to elvis.10:35
popey10:32:50 < mungojerry> popey: why not, if i use glipper and loads of other apps using the tray, i'll need to continue using some kind of tray10:35
popey10:31:33 < mungojerry> kazade: isn't it more likely that users will say goodbye to unity, or ubuntu completly10:36
popeyyou are saying "I might leave therefore lots of people might leave"10:36
popeythis is historically not born out10:36
popeygeeks have a tendancy to overemphasise their use case as the general use case for everyone10:37
mungojerrypopey: historically it has been borne out with KDE3->410:37
HazRPGjust for the lulz: http://notalwaysright.com/10:37
dogmatic69could someone explain this to me please10:37
dogmatic69bash < <( curl http://rvm.beginrescueend.com/releases/rvm-install-head )10:37
mungojerryof course many apps could be written to work with libunity to make the launcher more useful...but they are cross-distro projects and may not want to10:38
kazademungojerry, that's my main worry actually10:39
kazadeUbuntu now have libindicate and libunity  and has the market share to become the defacto development platform10:39
popeymungojerry: i disagree10:39
mungojerrypopey: disagree how? you think devs will make it work for unity? i hope so10:41
screen-xdogmatic69: I dont think you need the left "<"10:42
mungojerrymight take a year (plus roaring success of unity) to get on board though10:42
MartijnVdSuser-share != developer-share though10:42
dogmatic69screen-x: it works just as it is, but no clue what it means :/10:42
screen-xdogmatic69: you could write it as curl foo |bash10:42
screen-x<() is useful for providing more than one input steam10:43
dogmatic69screen-x: so its a weird way to pipe things?10:43
screen-xdiff <(command one) <(command two)10:43
ali1234popey: it isn't about numbers, but quality of contributions10:43
dogmatic69pipe n things to x then10:43
ali1234popey: unity might gain ubuntu 10 users for every person that leaves10:43
screen-xdogmatic69: yeah, pipe only provides one stream.10:44
screen-xdogmatic69: but in your example there was only one stream, so pipe would have been fine.10:44
ali1234popey: however that won't do you any good if none of the new people know how to write code10:44
dogmatic69screen-x: cool, just seen 2 tutorials with that now10:44
dogmatic69both for ruby10:44
* dogmatic69 dont like ruby10:45
popeyi am too hungover for this conversation, sorry :D10:49
mungojerry:) fairy nuff10:49
MartijnVdSpopey: you had to drink away your experience with Unity from last night?10:49
* daubers has a midmorning snickers bar10:49
mungojerrypopey: don't get me wrong i want unity to work, and i'm testing & reportign bugs10:49
mungojerrybut there must be a continued support for legacy apps in some way, for at least 1 cycle10:50
screen-xmungojerry: the tray has been supported alongside indicators for a few cycles now.10:51
daubersmungojerry: I've not noticed any apps that don't behave well in Natty?10:51
* gord loads steam in wine to check systray still works10:51
gordyup10:51
Ngburn the Notification Area!10:51
Ngburn it with fire!10:51
mungojerrydaubers: stuff that uses the systray (excepting the whitelisted wine & java)10:51
* screen-x loads ccsm10:51
gordNg, there is a compiz plugin for that10:51
Nghateful stupid thing10:51
screen-xand gets out the fire10:52
Nggord: ooh, goof point10:52
Ng-f+d10:52
screen-xgord ^510:52
gordcan we make "there is a plugin for that" the new "theres an app for that" meme?10:52
Nggord: I wanted 'there's an apt for that', but nobody really took to it :(10:52
MartijnVdSthere's a meme for that10:52
Ngand I didn't get Orly Owl for the next name. I lose at having any influence in the community10:53
daubersmungojerry: I've got a few things that use the systray runnign and their all happy...10:53
MartijnVdSNg: every time you suggest a name, sabdfl notices and makes sure it's not that10:53
MartijnVdSNg: hence "oneiric"10:54
knightwisecant believe the named it that way btw10:54
knightwisehad to look up what is was10:54
gordeh, i hate firefoxes "the server is not responding" page. it just annoys me. why can't it have like a cute picture of the firefox fox or something?10:54
mungojerrydaubers: in unity? try glipper, artha10:54
daubersSo we need to communally decide on a name in secret and ensure that we remoe all other names from the pool of availabl names?10:54
MartijnVdSknightwise: onerous ocelot ;)10:54
daubersmungojerry: Never heard of either of those :)10:54
Nggord: with a big sad face10:54
screen-xwhatever oneiric actually means, it sounds dodgy.10:54
gordNg, like they did to get people to do the test-pilot stuff :) http://mittakrish.com/files/Firefox-Test-Pilot-Mittakrish.com_.png10:54
gordhow can you say no to that?10:55
Ngthat is one iric ocelot10:55
mungojerrydaubers: what clipboard app are you using?10:55
Nggord: I'm sure there's a plugin for that :)10:55
mungojerryand what about update notification?10:55
daubersmungojerry: I don't use a clipboard app?10:55
daubersmungojerry: update notification disappeared from the panel a couple of releases ago10:55
Ngmungojerry: update notification doesn't use the... what daubers10:55
gordnow it just pops up randomly! its awesome10:56
Ngupdate manager loads, minimises and sets its urgent WM hint10:56
daubersglipper isn't in the repo...10:56
gordi love it when it pops up on my xmbc install and forces xbmc out of fullscreen mode, thats the best10:56
Nggord: perhaps you should disable it :)10:56
Ngjust install unattended-upgrades10:56
mungojerryupdate notification : i use the systray app because the other way is so...microsoft10:57
Ngthat's weird10:57
mungojerryi thought OSS was about choosing the best way10:57
screen-xI get update notifications, I dont think I'm in the right group.10:57
daubers!best10:57
lubotu3Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.10:57
Ngbecause windows puts updates in the 'systra'10:57
mungojerrydaubers: exactly..10:57
Ngwindows update and java and all sorts of things chuck icons in there when they have updates10:57
gordmungojerry, open source software is certainly not about choosing the best way10:57
gordits about choosing10:58
mungojerrygord, daubers: best for me is not best for you..AKA choice10:58
screen-xwhy is it not lunchtime yet10:58
mungojerrysorry for confusion10:58
knightwiseerm , what does the unattended command do btw ?10:58
Ngmungojerry: and you have the choice to run whatever software you want :)10:58
mungojerryNg: except not with unity :(10:58
daubersmungojerry: So you want to remove the choice of people to run unity so you can have your specific choice? Why not just run classic gnome (as you can from the login screen)10:59
Ngmungojerry: you can not run unity. The reality is that it's impossible for software to cater to everyone. simple, opinionated designs are better than vast universal ones10:59
Ngcompare an ipod with Eclipse10:59
ali1234compare wubi with grub10:59
gordeclipse is the single worst portable media player i have ever had10:59
mungojerryguys, all i'm asking is that legacy apps retain some kind of support until they can be integrated with the launcher10:59
gord?10:59
screen-xgord: eclipse is soooo slow on my iriver :(11:00
daubersmungojerry: That support has been continued for a few releases already, it has to be dropped at some point11:00
HazRPGali1234: ah, dude your online :)11:00
* Ng is a neophile, I love it when legacy things are dropped, it forced new things and new things are awesome \o/11:00
mungojerrydaubers: other distros use it though..11:00
HazRPGali1234: quick question for ya, you mentioned something a few nights ago about making your own SID... where did you see that at?11:00
gordunity is the bush wildfire, burning away the old cruft so the new plants can grow ¬_¬11:00
mungojerrywhat if the devs work on other distros11:00
daubersmungojerry: And? Other distro's use midnight commander too11:01
ali1234HazRPG: swansid11:01
ali1234swinsid11:01
ali1234whatever11:01
mungojerrythen ubuntu changes might not be at the forefront of their priorities11:01
daubersmungojerry: Thats their choice to make though11:01
mungojerryso the users get penalised :(11:01
mungojerryor use gnome classic11:01
HazRPGali1234: oh, I thought that was pre-built11:01
Ngdesktop app people not focussing on ubuntu compatibility clearly don't care about their users ;)11:02
HazRPGali1234: I didn't see on the site any schematics on there11:02
daubersmungojerry: So nothing should ever change so that all legacy apps always work?11:02
Ngbecause ubuntu brings the most desktop users :)11:02
mungojerryat least 1 cycle after 11.0411:02
ali1234mungojerry: don't worry about it. unity is going to be largely ignored by all other distros, like all canonical "good ideas"11:02
gordmungojerry, erm its not an either or situation, ubuntu apps are patched to support indicators, if you remove the indicator applet they fallback to tray11:02
mungojerrythe reality is that i will use docky within unity :S11:02
Ngali1234: there's nothing wrong with that, we've all ignored YaST and Anaconda and dozens of other things that different distros have produced :)11:02
daubersmungojerry: But legacy support for systray has been kept since the indicators where introduced. So if _your_ apps you want don't get updated by 11.10, will you still be saying keep it then?11:03
ali1234yeah, i don't see any upstream projects dropping support for tray11:03
MartijnVdSgood thing we've ignored yast too11:03
ali1234anaconda also sucks11:03
mungojerrydaubers: although unity wasn't the default previous to 11.0411:03
daubersmungojerry: Why does that change things? The app indicataors weren't introduced in Unity?11:03
ali1234HazRPG: it's done in software11:03
* Ng looks forward to network management moving to an indicator so I can forcibly turn off the notification area and get rid of the stupid HP logo that their printer management stuff puts in there11:04
mungojerrydaubers: some functionality can be moved from systray to the launcher with libunity, but libunity is new. not everything fits in the memenu thing that i never think of using11:05
ali1234the meme-nu sucks11:05
daubersmungojerry: But that ability has mostly been part of libindicator? The libunity stuff was just for the indicators on the icons isn't it?11:05
MartijnVdSNg: but it's a BRANDING OPPORTUNITY11:05
ali1234yet another thing that doesn't work properly with 2 monitors11:05
ali1234not that the thing it replaces did either11:05
NgMartijnVdS: yes, that's partly why I hate it. the blue hp logo looks totally out of place on my sleek, dark panel :)11:06
gordeh the me menu works fine with multiple monitors here11:06
mungojerryi already mentioned some apps that don't work, and the answer is that you haven't heard of them/don't use them11:06
mungojerrythere's 50,000 apps out there, and a lot will break11:06
mungojerryunityocalypse11:06
daubersmungojerry: But they've had the opportunity to resolve that since the indicators where introduced x releases ago11:06
HazRPGali1234: well... yeah its an AVR but his site just shows changes he's done - not the actual stuff to upload to your AVR11:06
daubersmungojerry: I know some people that still run win 95 machines as the apps they require haven't been updated to run on anything more recent11:06
Ngmungojerry: which do you expect is more likely to cause thse apps to be improved - a) 'one more cycle of no action required', b) 'no more cycles of no action required'? :)11:06
daubersYou have to drop support for legacy stuff at some point11:07
HazRPGI could be on the wrong site however...11:07
* screen-x has a win3.1 box connected to an hplc machine :)11:07
mungojerrynext LTS ?11:07
Nggetting this sort of change in a year before an LTS is perfect11:07
daubersThe releases between LTS's are when stuff should be dropped changed, so it's stable for the next LTS11:07
gordyeah doing it on an LTS is really a bad idea11:07
ali1234mungojerry: no point in this argument, just switch to debian11:07
mungojerry:(11:08
gordmungojerry, the reality is that this switch couldn't be made at any "good" time, but its something that should be done11:08
gord50,000 apps aren't going to be checked and patched any time soon and leaving in legacy support stops anyone from wanting to patch11:08
davmor2morning all11:09
mungojerrygord: i agree to an extent, except that unity is so new, it will cause a lot of breakage, maybe people don't realise how much11:09
ali1234the thing is, the authors of those 50,000 apps aren't actually going to patch them either way11:09
ali1234your package maintainers are going to have to do it11:09
mungojerrynot all developers are on board with the changes cos they are ubuntu only11:09
daubersmungojerry: So we should never change anything?11:09
gordmungojerry, actually no11:09
ali1234so you better make sure you don't drive them all to debian11:10
mungojerryif ubuntu was the only linux distro then fine.11:10
gordthe indicator stack is based on a freedesktop.org spec, everyone bar gnome-shell is moving towards it11:10
mungojerryyou can do what apple did with mac os 9->1011:10
* davmor2 scruffs up czajkowski hair, then sprays it with hair spray so it stays like it11:10
HazRPGali1234: ah, found some schematics, and an etch layout :)11:10
mungojerrygord: what will happen with next fedora, will they drop systray?11:11
* DJones replaces davmor2's tin of hair spray with a tin of blue spray paint11:11
mungojerryi'm happy to lose this argument if it means that unity works for me :)11:11
gordi have no idea what fedora is going to do11:11
Ngsecond guessing what fedora is going to do for its mostly-just-developers audience seems like a weird thing to be doing11:12
mungojerryi have dependency on a lot of apps on my work PC, it's definitely styying on 10.04 LTS for the time being11:12
Ngthere's nothing wrong with that11:12
popeyhttp://bit.ly/fQ36do wow11:13
daubersmungojerry: Thats why LTS's exist11:13
mungojerryNg: fedora has not many regular users? i disagree11:13
mungojerrydaubers: true :)11:13
* czajkowski frowns at DJones 11:13
Ngmungojerry: a distro that doesn't support upgrades has lots of regular users? I really find that hard to believe :)11:13
czajkowskiDJones: naughty step for you11:13
ali1234fedora is pretty lol11:14
Ngmungojerry: fedora is the bleeding edge. it's a good thing that it exists, but it's not user focussed like ubuntu is, imho11:14
DJonesczajkowski: Ah well, will there be room on the naughty step?11:14
ali1234i don't see how anyone can use it11:14
gordpopey, i only got one :( - what is that using? clever js or just crazy url redirection...11:14
kazadepopey, 7 seconds ;)11:14
kazadethat's pretty cool11:14
mungojerrythe comp sci dept at my employer use it in their labs11:15
DJonesYay 4 in 16 seconds11:15
Ngcomp sci = developers ;)11:15
mungojerryon another story, i just got a quote back from dell after getting windows tax removed11:16
mungojerryi chose the lamest win7 option (win 7 home no media). £459...take off win 7 and get £422 :)11:16
screen-xgord location.hash http://probablyinteractive.com/url-hunter/url-hunter.js11:17
gordah, makes sense but less impressive now :)11:19
AlanBellI was just reading that11:19
gordhttp://fractal.io/ is more impressive for those of us running firefox 4 (prolly chrome too)11:19
DJonesChrome doesn't like that website "WebGL not supported by your browser" and I'm using 11.0.696.0 dev11:21
czajkowskiDJones: not at the rate davmor2 is teacing people11:21
czajkowski*teaching11:21
screen-xDJones: wfm 9.0.597.9811:23
kazadeDJones, I *think* that Chrome only enable WebGL on under the proprietary Nvidia driver..11:23
MartijnVdSkazade: 10.0.648.127 on natty has it enabled properly on my Intel card/driver11:24
MartijnVdSbodybrowser.googlelabs.com works \o/11:24
kazadehmm, ok, I'm wrong then :)11:24
popeydoesnt work on windows either in chrome 1111:25
gordi'v heard some people say it doesn't work on their intel gpu's11:25
DJonesThis looks like a fix http://www.m0interactive.com/archives/2009/10/26/how_to_enable_webgl_on_google_chrome.html at the bottom of the page11:25
MartijnVdSDJones: only in old versions11:26
MartijnVdScurrent versions (9 and up) have it enabled by default11:26
MartijnVdS8 has it as an option (about:flags)11:26
screen-xWeb browsers are awesome :)11:27
DJonesLooks like its that webGL page thats the problem, other ones are working11:32
davmor2czajkowski: He's not learnt that from me I'd of gone for illuminous Green11:33
gordhonestly its using some advanced shader's to generate the 3d fractals. if you have a crappy gpu its gonna fail11:35
Ng;111:36
Ngdoh11:36
* czajkowski peers at davmor2 11:37
davmor2czajkowski: What you started it11:37
* mungojerry is looking at weird footage of a tsunami carrying burning debris11:40
kazademungojerry, I've been looking at this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-1270985611:41
mungojerrywhoah11:42
mungojerryif i learned anything from scooby doo, it's that the boat shoudn't be near the middle of that11:42
czajkowskiIf anyone is looking for work, we're looking for a support enginner to cover one of the shifts. pm for more details11:43
daubersIn a similar vain to czajkowski, I'm after a python/c programmer :)11:48
ali1234i've got one of those anti virus cold callers...11:49
directhexhttp://www.oerc.ox.ac.uk/jobs/osc-systems-manager11:49
directhexali1234, "hi, i'm from microsoft, give me remote access & all your money"?11:50
ali1234yes11:50
daubersali1234: Take a guess at their flowchart and convince them you know it because of the virii on their computers, then sell them Norton for a couple of hundred quids11:51
directhexdaubers, they're dumb. they just read a script.11:51
ali1234lol confused him with "no items"11:52
directhexali1234, he's not technically literate. you'd confuse him with CP, if you moved the task bar to a different edge to normal11:54
directhexXP11:54
czajkowskihttp://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/06-jan-2011/were-hiring-our-weybridge-offices11:56
directhexpfft, weybridge, when there's an opening in the dreaming spires of oxford?11:57
czajkowskidirecthex: you dont need to come in11:59
czajkowskithis job you just need to have internet access12:00
directhexoh bums12:00
directhexyou win this round!12:00
czajkowskidirecthex: you are so charming12:00
directhexi have all the charm of a room filled with cats12:00
czajkowskiyeah charming is not how I refer to rooms filled with cats my dear12:01
czajkowskinext time heads up before I sit down and blocked in and cant get out12:01
directhexi have all the charm of a room filled with cats.12:01
czajkowski>:(12:02
ali1234haha, dude got mad when he figured out i was just winding him up12:03
directhexali1234, ask him if his family know he's a criminal12:03
popey\o/ cats12:03
popeyali1234: what did he ask you to do? go to a web page or something?12:04
ali1234no12:04
ali1234it didn't get that far12:04
ali1234he asked me to look in event viewer like they always do12:04
popeyheh, you make it sound like an interactive fiction game :)12:04
popeyoh, what are you supposed to look for?12:04
ali1234so i told him it was empty12:04
ali1234event viewer is always full of crap so there's always something bad there12:04
popeytrue12:05
ali1234so anyway this confused him (it's *never* empty unless you manually clear it)12:05
ali1234so he gets his "supervisor" AKA the guy who runs the scam12:05
ali1234and he's like "oh you need to extend your warranty to see the problems"12:05
mungojerryali1234: what accent did he have?12:05
ali1234indian/pakistani/somewhere around there12:06
ali1234so anyway he says "oh the problems are inside your computer"12:06
ali1234so i put the phone inside the computer for a bit and then said "it looks OK"12:06
ubuntuuk-planet[Stuart Langridge] Adding tasks to Evolution from Python - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/03/11/adding-tasks-to-evolution-from-python12:07
directhexmungojerry, they all operate out of the same city in india12:07
mungojerrydirecthex: genuine call centres or fake ones?12:07
popeyer12:08
mungojerryor maybe they are the same place.12:08
popeywhat is a "fake call centre"?12:08
mungojerrypopey: what ali1234 just received12:08
popeyah12:08
popey"fake call" centre12:08
mungojerrymaybe they stay late to pull a bit of overtime12:08
directhexmungojerry, a call center filled with criminal scammers12:08
popeynot fake "call centre"12:08
directhexlike popey says12:08
mungojerrywell he did go get his supervisor12:09
mungojerrythat's better service than i usually get12:09
mungojerrymaybe i should try them when my talktalk line craps out12:09
mungojerry:)12:09
mungojerrysurely there must exist "a call center filled with criminal scammers"12:10
ali1234considering how much they probably make from this12:10
mungojerryi wish i could stop paying for my land line12:10
ali1234all they need is a few laptops and people to read the scripts12:10
ali1234i doubt it comes from a real call centre company12:11
mungojerryi get fleeced liek that every time i go to the car garage12:11
mungojerrypeople who know about cars must laff at me12:11
directhexali1234, it doesn't.12:13
ali1234apart from anything else, the legit companies operate 24 hours anyway, there's no such thing as "overtime"12:14
directhexhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/18/phone-scam-india-call-centres12:14
mungojerryanyone ever used agresso finance system?12:16
mungojerryone of the worst products i've ever had to use12:17
dogmatic69never used IE6 then :D12:17
mungojerryit's a web based product so you coudl combine the 212:17
dogmatic69nice12:18
mungojerryi suspect it's just my employer's implementation of it that doesn't work12:18
dogmatic69the site is broken in chrome and its full of links to sap and oracle...12:19
dogmatic69that should have been a sign12:19
dogmatic69and it runs on IIS12:19
mungojerrygoogling it, it seems to be mainly used in universities12:20
mungojerryhmmm12:20
dogmatic69seeing a few course for it too12:20
mungojerry:( my unity taskbar has gone all grey and "classic", a bit like when win XP goes funny and gives you the old school taskbar12:25
brobostigonafternoonings everyone,12:27
HazRPGmanual for my c64 arrived today :D12:35
HazRPGwow, this is well documented!12:35
HazRPGno wonder demos' were so popular12:35
* HazRPG reading about sprites12:36
brobostigonafternoonings HazRPG :)12:36
HazRPGbrobostigon: afternoon squire :)12:36
brobostigonsquire, hmm.12:36
brobostigon:)12:36
HazRPGirc I always call people squire :)12:37
HazRPGirl*12:37
brobostigonoh, ok.12:37
MartijnVdSHazRPG esq.?12:37
HazRPGI don't like the term "mate"12:37
HazRPGMartijnVdS: ?12:37
HazRPGMartijnVdS: what's esq.?12:37
MartijnVdShttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquire12:38
brobostigonHazRPG: its an ebbreviation for esquire.12:38
HazRPGah12:38
HazRPGlol12:38
MartijnVdSAmericans like adding it to their name to try to indicate status :)12:38
HazRPGMartijnVdS: what does you handle mean btw?12:38
MartijnVdSHazRPG: Martijn = first name, "van de Streek" = my last name.. so VdS12:39
HazRPGhow do you pronounce the first part?12:40
HazRPGbecause I keep trying to say "marti.. j... n... VdS"12:40
daubersBleshu12:40
MartijnVdSHazRPG: "ij" is one sound12:41
HazRPGso my typing always results in "mart<tab>j<tab>" when I type it12:41
MartijnVdSHazRPG: http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/martijn12:41
HazRPGMartijnVdS: ah, so I'm not wrong in thinking its pronounced "martin"12:42
HazRPGactually...12:43
MartijnVdSHazRPG: almost.. if you prounce the "i" as "eye" it's almost right12:43
HazRPGmarTAYn12:43
HazRPGmart<tab>j<tab :)12:43
MartijnVdSHazRPG: so.. are you "hassan role playing game" or "hassan rocket propelled grenade"? ;)12:44
HazRPGrole playing game :)12:44
* HazRPG loves RPG's12:44
mungojerryHazRPG: you're not a bot are you ? :P12:45
HazRPGmy dad seems to think its Rocket Propelled Grenade - it amuses him12:45
MartijnVdSmungojerry: considering the times he's online.. he could be12:45
HazRPGmungojerry: xD12:45
HazRPGmungojerry: nope12:45
HazRPGMartijnVdS: you mean considering the light number of hours he sleeps...12:46
HazRPGlittle*12:46
HazRPG>_<12:46
MartijnVdSfew ;)12:46
HazRPGexact.a.mondo!12:46
HazRPG<== still awake, not slept yet12:46
HazRPGooo there's a section on sound in here too!12:46
* HazRPG looks like he could be making a demo soon!12:46
HazRPGwow, basic back then was so much easier than the basic I used about 10 years ago12:47
mungojerryHazRPG: do u work?12:47
mungojerryor study12:47
mungojerryor neither :P12:47
HazRPGmungojerry: both?12:47
HazRPGstudying (top up for my HND->Degree), freelance (making a hotel booking system ATM), also do LOTS of self research/studying for personal projects12:48
HazRPGand yet still have time to socialise ... somehow!12:48
HazRPGhmm, seems odd that in BASIC for the c64 - they didn't include the memory numbers as basic constant variables (or API - sort of - variables)12:50
MartijnVdSthey didn't have room for symbolic names12:51
MartijnVdSjust poke that address you found in the manual :)12:51
HazRPGsince most of these examples basically say "make a variable with the value xxxxx, and use this for adding & subtracting to get your registers12:51
HazRPGMartijnVdS: they'll have had more than enough for the base values of them though - one for video sprites and one for sound would have made all the difference)12:52
HazRPGsince we have to create those anyways12:52
HazRPGjust seems pointless - specially since these are fixed values anyways12:53
HazRPGespecially*12:53
HazRPGgreat thing about emulators though, I can quickly type it out on the PC and test it (with several emu's open) then later convert over to the actual c64 :)12:54
screen-xHazRPG: can you squirt programs over to the c64 with some sort of serial connection?12:59
HazRPGscreen-x: I wish12:59
screen-xHazRPG: no serial interface at all?12:59
HazRPGthere is, but I don't have any cables12:59
screen-xah12:59
HazRPGand my computer doesn't have a port to output serial (other the ps/2 if that counts)12:59
screen-xusb serial interfaces are cheap though13:00
HazRPGscreen-x: however, I am planning on making a CF/SD/MMC (one of those) card reader for it13:00
HazRPGso I can test around in several environments on my PC, save bits to file... and the store them onto SD when I want to try them out on the real machine :)13:01
HazRPGthat's the plan at least ;)13:01
screen-xHazRPG: wow, what sort of file system can a c64 read?13:01
HazRPGscreen-x: good point :)13:01
mungojerrywow, my fascination with old stuff wears off a lot more quickly than that13:01
ali1234what is the difference between nvidia 195 series and 260 series drivers?13:01
mungojerryi tend to binge on old BBC games for 2 days max13:01
HazRPGscreen-x: erm... don't know? fat16 seems to be what people are using for the SD cards13:02
screen-xHazRPG: I cant see the c64 reading that..13:02
HazRPGali1234: mainly newer card support I think?13:02
ali1234but the 195 series isn't listed on nvidia's page13:02
HazRPGscreen-x: ah, you've gotta programme a IC though13:02
ali1234yet it was developed in parallel with the 260 series drivers13:03
HazRPGali1234: oh, sorry I thought you mean driver versions >_<13:03
ali1234i do13:03
ali1234see http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html13:03
ali1234there is 260, 173, 96, and 7113:04
ali1234so what is this 195 stuff?13:04
HazRPGali1234: where you getting that number from? I thought it was only 96, 173 and 260 :S13:04
ali1234http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_archive.html13:04
ali1234on june 11 2010 they released a 195 driver in between two 256 drivers13:05
ali1234so clearly it's a different series13:05
ali1234but it's not listed on the front page13:05
ali1234so, wtf?13:05
ali1234sometimes i wonder who comes up with this stuff13:06
mungojerryi don't have the brain capacity to store all that awkward stuff13:07
HazRPGali1234: from what I can see from all the supported products...13:07
mungojerrythen i end up running the wrong driver13:07
mungojerryif i've got a FX5200 old nvidia card, which driver do i run?13:07
HazRPG265 has most of the cards from 195... the ones that were removed appears to be in 173...13:08
ali1234so what happened to the 195 series?13:08
knightwiseAha :) Using rsh i can make my Imacs in the house "say" things using the crontab of my Ubuntu server13:08
HazRPGali1234: I have a feeling they were forked off to 265 and 17313:09
knightwiseintersting (waddles of to find an evil sceme to scare his wife using this tech)13:09
ali1234meaning... the driver version number descreased for some users?13:09
HazRPGali1234: hmm.. I'm boggled now13:10
HazRPGali1234: could just be that it was too unstable13:11
HazRPGali1234: ah ha!13:12
HazRPG195 was a beta driver!13:12
ali1234the only reason i ask is because debian 6 (released last month) has only the 195 driver, which is over 6 months old and looks like no longer supported by nvidia at all13:13
brobostigondebian stable, is after all well tested, and also older for it.13:14
ali1234shipping an unsupported beta driver isn't exactly my idea of stable13:14
ali1234but even unstable doesn't have the latest driver13:15
brobostigonali1234: they probebly well tested it, and thought it stable and tested enough, no to change it.13:15
ali1234have to go experimental for that13:15
HazRPGah wait, 195.36.11 is final13:16
ali1234ok, is it the 260 that's beta then?13:16
ali1234because that would make more sense13:16
HazRPGno cos 256.35 is stable too apparently - but has had a lot of bug fixes, and the 195.36 only had one13:18
=== Monster_Killer is now known as MonsterKiller
HazRPGso would be safe to assume that 195.36 seems to be less error prune then 26513:18
HazRPGsorry 260 even13:18
MartijnVdSerror prune13:18
MartijnVdSnice typo :)13:18
ali1234i'm pretty sure the 195 driver still had that horrible memory leak where xorg chucks away 1GB of ram per day for no reason13:19
brobostigonali1234: when i was running debian sid, i basiclly  pulled have the system from experimental, more or less. especially when i started using gnome-shell, and needed to pull gtk3, and the new app version that go with.13:19
brobostigonpulled half*13:19
brobostigonversions*13:20
ali1234yeah, i'm not the slightest bit interested in gnome313:20
HazRPGhmm13:20
HazRPGokay, so you officially confused me ali1234 - but I think I've /sort of/ worked it out13:21
ali1234i didn't confuse you13:21
HazRPGyou were saying that both released within moments of each other (almost)13:21
ali1234nvidia did it13:21
ali1234???13:21
ali1234i just want to know how the version numbers work13:21
ali1234and under what definition 195 could be considered to be supported13:22
ali1234specifically i want to know which series 195 fits into13:23
ali1234is it the same series as 260?13:23
ali1234if it is, why were there multiple releases in the same series but out of order?13:23
mungojerryi had a severe problem where my nvidia card couldn't handle 2 monitors due to performance issues...now i'm wondering if it was the driver or the stick of super slow memory i accidentally put in the machine13:23
ali1234and why do they skip like 50 version numbers?13:23
HazRPGwell both 195 and 260 appear to be similar with card compatibility13:24
mungojerryali1234: yo uare trying to attribute common sense to a nonlogical problem :P13:24
HazRPGali1234: I just noticed the drivers one the first link doesn't show 17313:27
HazRPGah crud no...13:27
ali1234yes it does13:27
HazRPGyeah, just realised :/13:27
HazRPGI was looking at 71 and 173 (confusion me...)13:28
HazRPGali1234: ... hmm, I have a feeling the numbers are just based on when it was forked off13:29
ali1234yes13:30
ali1234that's exactly my point13:30
HazRPGcommit . fork-commit . version13:30
ali1234195 was forked off last june or earlier13:31
ali1234but now it is not listed with the other legacy drivers13:31
ali1234why?13:31
HazRPGali1234: ah, but the fork could have been from a different code base13:31
HazRPGas in, not the time it was forked - the number of which they were forking it from13:32
HazRPGwould explain the leap between 195 - 26013:32
HazRPG260 is probably the main commit number13:33
directhexthere's no jump13:36
HazRPGhmm, odd13:36
HazRPG1.x.x is how it started, and went to 100.x.x13:36
directhexthe version number for the "latest version" keeps going up, although not all versions get a public release. when they remove support for some hardware, they fork that one off13:37
HazRPGthen went 169.x 71.x.x13:37
HazRPGyeah, that's what I was thinking (when I tried to explain my fork theory)13:37
directhexthe first linux release was 43.4913:38
HazRPGwhat's 1.0-1251 that was released in 2001 then :P13:38
directhexoh, and the version number is tied to the windows forceware version number it's based on13:38
directhexHazRPG, oh, yeah, the really really legacy ones in XFree86_4013:39
HazRPG;)13:39
HazRPGlost track of my mind thought...13:40
directhexeven 41.80 for amd6413:40
directhexanyway, use the latest version your hardware supports. that's the rule o' thumb. 270.30 is the latest on nvidia.com13:41
HazRPGah I remember now (after scrolls), mungojerry: how do ya mean store awkward stuff? and your fascination with old stuff wears off so easily how?13:41
HazRPGI think I was going to word that differently earlier - but I forgets13:41
ali1234http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html latest is 260.19.4413:41
mungojerryHazRPG: awkward stuff is the nitty gritty details of what driver needs installing with which card etc...when you get to 35 you want things to just work without remembering so much :)13:43
HazRPGali1234: latest, as in beta driver is 27013:43
mungojerryand as for old stuff.. the nostalgia draws me in but the reality often disappoints13:43
HazRPGali1234: http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/linux-display-amd64-270.26-driver-uk.html13:43
HazRPGmungojerry: reality of what?13:43
mungojerryHazRPG: reality of playing old games you used to love13:44
mungojerryin my memory the graphics and gameplay are better13:44
mungojerrythe reality is that the graphics really suck13:44
mungojerryand you get a bit bored13:45
HazRPGmungojerry: I wouldn't say that, I most of my friends are in the the 25-40... and most of them still get down to nitty gritty - it just depends how much your really into it13:45
knightwisei would like to setup a vm just to play Xwing vs Tie fighter again13:45
mungojerryHazRPG: there's nitty gritty and nitty gritty :P13:45
HazRPG:P13:45
knightwisebut i'm not sure if it would would run inside a vm13:45
gordknightwise, wasn't that a dos game?13:46
HazRPGknightwise: what type of games?13:46
HazRPGknightwise: if dos - try DOSbox instead13:47
MartijnVdSDOSbox ftw13:47
knightwisedosbox ?13:47
MartijnVdSI've been playing Frontier: Elite 2  again13:47
HazRPGknightwise: if old-school windows (pre-XP), try wine ;)13:47
MartijnVdSknightwise: dosbox.13:47
knightwiseis that a vm ?13:47
knightwiseit is old school windwos13:47
HazRPGknightwise: it's a dos emulator ;)13:47
MartijnVdSknightwise: sort of-ish.13:47
knightwiseya think i might be able to pull that off under wine , would be very very cool13:47
* knightwise loves xwing vs tie fighter13:47
HazRPGknightwise: VMs = computer emulator, dosbox = Just dos emulator13:47
knightwisei'm not sure if itss a complete dosgame13:48
knightwisedont think so13:48
HazRPGknightwise: if its pre-XP, wine will run it more then perfectly13:48
ali1234Xwing was pure dos13:48
gordits a windows game, 199713:48
ali1234i used to have to use a dos bootdisc to play it because it wouldn't work properly through win3.113:48
HazRPGif in doubt, check www.winehq.org13:48
popeyor run file foo.exe :)13:49
mungojerryMartijnVdS: ever play oolite?13:49
popeyoooo i have a hankering for some oldschool dos games now13:50
knightwisehttp://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=815613:50
MartijnVdSmungojerry: oolite?13:50
MartijnVdSmungojerry: don't know it13:50
mungojerryoolite is a remake of the original elite, but is fantastic13:50
mungojerryreally well made13:50
MartijnVdSoooo13:50
HazRPGknightwise: seems dosbox will run X-Wing: http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/GAMES:X-Wing13:51
mungojerryMartijnVdS: the best thing is that the expansion packs actually allow the legendary generation ships and other ficititous stuff13:51
knightwiseyeah , but its xwing vs Tie fighter (different game)13:51
MartijnVdSmungojerry: it's more like elite than frontier13:52
knightwisemaybe i just need a legacy PIII machine running Windows 98 :)13:52
MartijnVdSmungojerry: (i.e. ship control is annoying)13:53
mungojerryMartijnVdS: never played frontier. it's like arcElite..annoying how?13:53
HazRPGknightwise: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1404466.html13:53
HazRPGknightwise: discussion about X-Wing vs Tie Fighter13:54
ali1234mungojerry: in frontier they had "realistic" physics13:55
ali1234ie you could keep accelerating for half an hour13:55
ali1234then it took another half an hour too stop13:55
gordfor those that suddenly need to play dos games, you can buy digital downloads here :) http://www.gog.com/13:55
mungojerrylol13:55
HazRPGknightwise: there was no game called just "X-Wing" or just "Tie fighter", there was only X-Wing vs Tie fighter13:55
ali1234this usually resulted in the autopilot slamming you into a planet or something13:55
mungojerryali1234: is that a good thing ?13:56
ali1234frontier was basically unplayable because of this13:56
mungojerryali1234: have you tried oolite ?13:56
ali1234yes13:56
gordHazRPG, what? yes there was13:56
gordHazRPG, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_X-Wing_%28series%2913:56
MartijnVdSali1234: that was not frontier, that was first encounters13:56
MartijnVdSali1234: frontier was quite nice13:56
mungojerryno game comes close to reviving the gaming joys of my youth13:56
ali1234frontier was exactly the same as first encounters13:56
ali1234they tried to actually fix some of the problems in first encounters13:57
ali1234but it was basically just ane xpansion pack13:57
ali1234the other lol thing about frontier was the broken copy protection13:57
HazRPGgord: either way, that thread mentions that it should work in dosbox13:57
MartijnVdSali1234: first encounters had textures13:57
MartijnVdSali1234: and copy protection actually worked for me13:57
ali1234yes, FE had textures on PC13:58
ali1234because it came after frontier13:58
* popey hugs MartijnVdS for introducing him to lemongrass13:58
MartijnVdSali1234: FE crashed a lot, F didn't (for me, on PC)13:58
MartijnVdSpopey: ♫ A journey to a star13:58
ali1234it was even fully named frontier: first encounters13:58
ali1234because it was basically the same game, except finished, unlike frontier which was totally broken13:58
popeyBee13:59
screen-xElite \o/13:59
MartijnVdSali1234: FFE was shipped early/unfinished.13:59
ali1234no, frontier was shipped early/unfinished13:59
ali1234FFE might have been as well, i don't know, they never made an amiga version14:00
* screen-x goes back to sleep^Wwork14:00
ali1234not that i would have bought it after the awful mess of frontier14:00
MartijnVdSali1234: Maybe the amiga version was shipped early.. the PC version is OK :)14:00
MartijnVdSali1234: it's not as bad as FFE14:00
MartijnVdSali1234: ah, the PC version of Frontier was re-written in asm14:02
mungojerryi wonder what games people will be fondly recollecting in 20 years time14:02
=== jamespage1 is now known as jamespage
brobostigonok, suggestions, i need something constructive to do.14:03
mungojerrypopey: are you near your natty PC, or at work?14:03
DJonesmungojerry: People will still be talking about Manic Miner & Jetset Willy14:04
popeyi am on a natty pc, but booted to osx14:04
popeycant reboot it atm14:04
mungojerrypopey: OK..i have lots of breakage right now, wondering if others had it ..no probs14:04
mungojerryDJones: and world of goo hopefully :P14:04
brobostigonmungojerry: i am on natty, but inside gnome-shell not unity, can i help.14:04
DJonesmungojerry: I've heard of that, but never seen it14:05
mungojerryDJones: really?14:05
DJonesmungojerry: Really, and I've never seen Angry Birds :)14:05
* mungojerry resists making a joke...14:06
mungojerryworld of goo is part of humble indie bundle14:06
mungojerryyou could buy for any price u wanted14:06
mungojerryit's a great little game14:07
ali1234world of goo is kind of forgettable14:07
ali1234it's not hard enough14:07
ali1234at least not the shareware levels14:07
brobostigonangry birds is just around 17MB, thats too big, :(14:08
mungojerryali1234: i think the shareware levels/demo ones were the first few to get you into the game14:08
ali1234i didn't feel like i wanted to see any more after those14:09
mungojerryi tend to prefer indie games14:09
ali1234actually my impression of the game could be summed up as "lemmings without the character or challenge"14:10
mungojerrymmm lemmings14:10
mungojerrylemmings first few levels were easy too14:11
DJonesI must find a version of choplifter14:11
ali1234but the demos they made were moe challenging than the beginner levels14:11
mungojerrytwas a great game14:12
xr1Hi, is there any way I can send documents to another computer and print then off automatically?14:13
Myrttithank you universe, for giving me a headache14:13
xr1Example, I work from office and sent docs to home and get them to print off automatically?14:13
AlanBellxr1: send by email?14:14
DJonesxr1: I did see something the other day from google that would let you do that14:14
MartijnVdSexpose the printer over the internet14:14
MartijnVdSand then use it :)14:14
mungojerryyou could have a watch folder in ubuntuone/dropbox14:14
AlanBelluse ssh to tunnel home and print14:14
DJonesxr1: http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/p/cloudprint.html14:14
DJonesBut sounds like it might only be windows at the minute14:15
Myrtti"For Windows XP, Vista, and 7"14:15
* MartijnVdS 's printer has an IPv6 address14:15
MartijnVdSif I open up my firewall, anyone can print to it :)14:15
AlanBellcat /dev/random > printer.martijnVdS.net14:16
DJonesHmmh https://github.com/armooo/cloudprint#readme14:16
MartijnVdSAlanBell: good thing my firewall is still on then14:16
xr1DJones: that might work then because the persons computer is windows 7, only mine is ubuntu.14:18
DJonesxr1: I've not looked into it any further other than thinking that it was a good idea14:19
xr1Ok thanks for your help.14:21
kazadewhat the... all of our sites have gone down, even though they run on different hosts and it's not a DNS issue..14:30
kazadeis anyone else seeing a widespread outage?14:30
kazadeI have sites on Webfusion and EC2 not responding..14:31
mungojerrynope14:32
mungojerryhttp://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/14:32
kazadeyeah, that's returning that they are all down14:32
kazadeeven using IP addresses14:32
kazadethis makes absolutely no sense14:32
screen-xkazade: url?14:33
kazadewww.postgrad.com14:33
kazadeor www.riverhall.co.uk14:33
kazadeone is EC2 the other is Wordpress14:33
kazadethere is NOTHING in common with the DNS, they are separate DNS hosts14:33
mungojerryyeah, they are bust14:33
screen-xboth look down from here14:33
kazadewtf?14:33
kazadehow in the world does that happen?14:34
mungojerryhaven't heard any explosions14:34
mungojerryhoused in the same data centre?14:34
kazadethe former is EC2, the latter is Wordpress.com14:34
mungojerryremember that fire in texas Datacentre that took out millions of sites14:34
kazadealso I have another VM that is WebFusion, and that's down too14:34
mungojerryperhaps wordpress use EC2 :P14:35
screen-xwordpress.com is ok from here14:35
kazadeyeah, the site itself is..14:35
screen-xhttp://twitter.com/#search?q=ec214:35
kazadeah ok..14:35
kazadethere is a redirect I forgot about14:35
screen-xah14:35
popeyhehe14:36
popeyPICNIC14:36
kazadebut still WebFusion and EC2..14:36
popeyProblem In Chair, Not In Computer14:36
mungojerrytraceroute dies at amazon14:37
mungojerryother traceroute dies at BlueConnex-Infrastructure14:37
mungojerrymaybe they all just hate u14:37
mungojerryyay just saved my company £200 on a 5 PC order by dropping the windows tax :)14:41
brobostigon:)14:41
mungojerrysome things in this world are just wrong...one of them is win tax14:42
* brobostigon gets mungojerry some live usb, alternate install media, to install from.14:42
mungojerryPXE boot :)14:42
brobostigon:)14:42
mungojerryready on your desk in 20 mins sir14:43
brobostigon:)14:43
mungojerryor 10 mins without adobe_reader.rpm14:43
kazadeok, I'm wrong14:43
mungojerryhugs kazade14:43
kazadeeverything is somehow related to EC2 not responding14:44
mungojerryputs 50p in the meter for amazon14:44
kazadeyet, all the EC2 instances are up.. and the Elastic IPs are point at them14:44
kazadeand the security group hasn't changed14:44
screen-xkazade: can you connect out from the ec2 instances?14:44
kazadeI can't ssh TO the ec2 instances :(14:44
screen-xkazade: :(14:45
screen-xno issues showing on http://status.aws.amazon.com/14:45
screen-xDJones: just tried that cloudprint proxy from github, works :)14:45
DJonesscreen-x: Excellent, I'll have to look at installing that14:46
screen-xDJones: seems to be limited to printing from mobile devices at the moment.. strange.14:46
kazadeaha, ok I can get to one VM14:46
kazadeit's in eu-west-1b the others are in eu-west-1a14:46
DJonesscreen-x: Not so useful then14:46
screen-xDJones: no, not till support is added to desktop versions of gmail,docs,etc14:47
kazade"Small number of EC2 instances unavailable in a single availability zone in the EU-WEST-1 region."14:47
kazadeballs14:47
ali12345i thought the cloud was supposed to fix problems like that?14:48
* popey looks for the silver lining on kazade's cloud14:48
popeyooo, you have gained a 5 ali1234514:48
kazadepopey, what makes things worse14:48
kazadeis I was made redundant 1 hour ago14:48
ali12345popey: i'm inside a debian VM14:48
mungojerrykazade: really, no :(14:48
kazadeyes14:48
mungojerrykazade: more hugs14:48
mungojerrythat sucks dude14:48
ali12345trying to figure out what it will take to migrate away from ubuntu14:48
kazadeso coming back from the lunch meeting where I get the sack, I get an urgent message that everything is down14:49
dauberskazade: Where are you based?14:49
kazadetoday is pannign out REALLY well14:49
kazadePinner14:49
kazadeNW London14:49
daubersReally? Who where you working for?14:49
kazadea small company :)14:50
kazadeof just me and the boss14:50
daubersNot Bluefish or Polar graphic14:50
popeyoh crud, sorry to hear that kazade14:50
kazadenah14:50
kazade:(14:50
popeywhen's last day?14:50
kazadewell, my boss has been quite generous, he's basically said he'll keep me on till I find another job14:50
mungojerrylunch meetings where you get the sack are rubbish...i had one of those but i was told before i bit into my sossy sandwich that i'd paid for.. it didn't get eaten after...14:50
kazadebut I don't expect that to last more than 2 months max14:51
popeythats good14:51
screen-xkazade: awww not a good day :(14:51
mungojerrycz-tab is hiring14:51
screen-xdaubers: snap up a gooden14:51
mungojerryhttp://i.imgur.com/2JEiF.png here's my unity session right now.14:52
ali1234"lol"14:53
davmor2mungojerry: saying cz-tab instead of czajkowski is likely to get you stabbed, beaten or laughed at depending on her mood14:53
kazadephew, EC2 is back14:53
screen-xmungojerry: lost gnome-settings-daemon?14:53
mungojerrydavmor2: now you pinger her i probably will get stabbed along with you too14:53
mungojerry:)14:53
mungojerryscreen-x: i dunno what's happened tbh...after a recent updatre14:54
screen-xkazade: both sites look ok now14:54
DJonesmungojerry: I wouldn't worry, 1st offence is only the naughty step and davmor2 + MooDoo have got that fully occupied14:54
mungojerryDJones: lol14:54
davmor2mungojerry: she has cz listed to ping her14:55
mungojerryreally? scary14:55
mungojerrythats like popey listing uupc14:55
mungojerryi mentioned it once in a room far far away and popey came running14:55
mungojerryi don't think pidgin has that feature14:55
popey:)14:56
popeyi have some odd things on highlight14:56
mungojerryi was hoping to find anyone running unity to confirm if i've broken my install or not14:56
mungojerrypopey: is it an irc function or your client?14:56
popeyirssi14:57
mungojerryah14:57
davmor2mungojerry: it looks like you have defaulted to the default gnome icons, open a terminal and type unity see if that fixes it for you14:57
mungojerrydavmor2: tried that, and unity --reset14:57
mungojerryreboot, and all14:58
davmor2mungojerry: have you tried sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade it may be a package breakage14:58
mungojerrydavmor2: yes, unfortuatneyly14:58
davmor2mungojerry: ask gord to fix it /me runs for cover14:59
gordmungojerry, why do you have gnome panel on there?15:00
mungojerryi haven't done anything special15:00
gordit looks like you have broken your install15:00
gordget an alpha 3 live image15:00
mungojerryit just appeared like that :(15:00
mungojerryok, so long as it's just me , i'll destroy and try again...15:00
popeyI wouldnt15:00
popeyif it were me15:01
mungojerrywhat's gir11.2.unity?15:01
mungojerry!gir115:01
mungojerrygord, should my machine also be acting liek winxp in that it is a quick boot and then longish wait to a working desktop?15:04
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
mungojerryjust froze my machine HARD ..think its time for the new image..15:10
* daubers was hoping his new HDD would turn up today :(15:17
davmor2daubers: it will 2 minutes after you go out somewhere15:18
daubersdavmor2: Coming through work, so probably not :)15:18
daubersHooray for enterprise grade 2.5" disks15:19
screen-xwhere can I redirect mountall output during boot to, so that it will survive?15:19
screen-xbug 44518115:19
lubotu3Launchpad bug 445181 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "mount of nfs fails at boot - Karmic beta" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44518115:19
screen-xsuggests > /dev/.udev/mountall.log 2>&115:19
screen-xbut the log file doesn't seem to survive15:20
screen-x:q15:20
daubersscreen-x: /dev/tty0?15:20
dauberscan you pipe to a tty like that?15:21
daubersscreen-x: Or to a bit of python to throw it out the serial connection :)15:21
popeythat seems like an odd place to log15:22
screen-xpopey: yeah, but its got to be a fairly odd place to exist before mountall runs, and survive15:22
czajkowskidavmor2: oi!15:22
mungojerryyay fixed my unity problem :)15:23
popeyscreen-x: /etc somewhere :)15:23
screen-xit also seems to work, as the bug reporter is able to obtain a log.15:23
screen-xpopey: will etc be mounted?15:23
davmor2czajkowski: what now?15:23
popeyI should hope so15:23
* screen-x tries it15:23
czajkowskidavmor2: comment up there15:24
davmor2czajkowski: What it's true you don't like cz-tab <cztab> :P and you do stab, beat or laugh depending on your mood :P15:25
daubersMight not be as you may still be in the initramfs15:25
mungojerrydavmor2: this reminds me of the time i met a guy called ginger john, except i didn't know thats what everyone called him when he WASN'T THERE15:27
* kazade sighs15:29
kazadeI need a beer15:29
mungojerrynot surprised dude, bad day for you :(15:29
* knightwise loves ssh :) working at a clients place with all the comforts from home15:30
bigcalmPHP's error_log - I need to log E_ALL to file as well as it continuing to go to stdout (web browser). Any idea how?15:31
DJonesknightwise: Wouldn't the better idea be to work from home using ssh to access the clients system, then you do get all the comforts of home15:32
knightwiselol thats true15:33
knightwisewell , i'm fixing up a mac onsite15:33
knightwiseso15:33
screen-xtrying to write to /etc/ caused mountall to fail completely, I ended up at the give password for maintainance or Control-D to continue prompt.15:33
X3Nbigcalm: display_errors = on ; error_log = /var/log/php-erros.log15:36
screen-xI'm having this problem where NFS mounts fail, and cause boot to fail. Its probably due to complicated networking config, which package should I file a bug against?15:36
bigcalmTa15:36
screen-xnfs-common?15:37
X3N(in php.ini obviously)15:37
bigcalmGoing to put into .htaccess instead. I only want logging on one site15:37
X3Noh right, yeah15:38
brobostigoni have my brother burning a linux live cd, so we can repair his hdd's, because window's have messed up.15:38
brobostigonhas*15:38
knightwisehahah  found a cool apple wallpaper15:39
knightwise" i replaced a pc" it says :)15:39
knightwiseneed one of those for linux15:39
mungojerryi want one that says "i don't need no antivirus"15:41
knightwisehahah :) that would be a good one too15:42
popeyknightwise: url?15:43
knightwisehttp://www.macwallpapers.eu/wallpaper/Pc-Mac-Apple-Leopard-Os-Desktop/15:44
mungojerryi've seen one of a lady dressed as a french maid, saying "i don't do windows"15:44
mungojerryrather surprised how much flesh is on display when using strict search in google images for ubuntu wallpaper15:45
* popey notes a mac _is_ a pc15:47
knightwisesymantics15:47
czajkowskipopey: missing from #council channel :)15:47
MartijnVdSpopey: It's not quite IBM-PC compatible15:47
mungojerryhttp://ipadwallpaper.eu/wallpapers/2/android-eating-apple.jpg :P15:48
popeyneither were olivetti pcs and they were still called pc15:48
popeyaaaanyway15:48
popeyhome time \o/15:48
bigcalmEven with piping tar over ssh from one ubuntu machine to another, only getting 2MB/s over wifi :(15:48
screen-xbigcalm: roobesh15:49
bigcalmscreen-x: iain@iain-Studio-1558:~/Music$ tar cf - . | ssh revo "cd /media/exdrive1/Music; tar xf -"15:49
screen-xbigcalm: test with iperf afterwards15:50
andylockranhey guys15:50
andylockranhow's things?15:50
screen-xhowdy howdy howdy andylockran ;-)15:50
andylockran:)15:50
andylockranI'm loved.15:50
bigcalmWatching the bandwidth usage on the router shows a range of 2MB/s to 2.5MB/s15:50
bigcalmI have never ever ever seen more than 2ish MB/s on scp in an internal network15:52
bigcalmA bit depressing15:52
X3Nthere's a reasonably large overhead for sshfs, but I've had better speeds than that15:53
bigcalmWhat's the best method to copy over a trusted network then?15:53
MartijnVdSnetworks aren't trusted.15:54
X3NI use woof15:54
gordi just use samba everywhere...15:54
knightwiseGaah ! Fracking bootcamp drivers15:55
X3Nbigcalm: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/woof.html15:56
bigcalmX3N: cheers15:56
X3Nusage ./woof.py file_you_want_to_send.lolz15:57
bigcalmX3N: 15gb of mp3s :)15:57
screen-xbigcalm: nfs15:57
X3Nor maybe rsync15:58
screen-xbigcalm: also you can put pv in the pipe, to see how fast its flowing15:59
bigcalmHumm15:59
bigcalmI can see the data rate on the router16:00
X3Nyou could setup a light http server, and then wget the files..16:05
X3Nwget -np -r16:05
screen-xor you could print each mp3 an A1 sized qr code16:06
knightwiseand use a pen to copy them over16:06
* bigcalm head-desks16:20
dogmatic69anyone used gitosis before?16:20
MartijnVdSbigcalm: why? :)16:20
bigcalmerror_log isn't saving to file :(16:20
dogmatic69looking for the web front end stuff16:20
MartijnVdS?!16:20
* brobostigon puts apillow between bigcalm's head, and the desk.16:20
mungojerryis tempted to perform an scp test on his network16:21
bigcalmUsing ini_set('error_log', '/foo/bar.log'); which I know works on another project16:21
bigcalmBut not here16:21
MartijnVdShaha php16:22
MartijnVdS:P16:22
* mungojerry is breaking the sysadmin golden rule again by upgrading software late on friday16:23
screen-xmungojerry: Nooooooooooooo! Doooooont do it!16:23
* screen-x has learnt this lesson. 16:23
dogmatic69nothing like working to the early hours of sunday morning :)16:24
mungojerryit's not software that will affect the infrastructure16:24
mungojerryit's independent - either it will work, or not16:24
screen-xmungojerry: hmmmmmm nothing is ever independent.16:24
bigcalmHow would I watch ls | wc ?16:26
X3Nwatch 'ls | wc' ?16:27
bigcalmAha16:27
mungojerry watch --interval 1 "ls | wc -l"16:27
bigcalmThanks both :)16:27
X3Nmungojerry: --interval=1 or -n 116:28
X3N;)16:28
mungojerryhmm..works on my machine :P16:29
X3Nthe ;) was for the pedants16:30
kazademy google-foo is failing me.. how do I create a bzr branch without a working tree?16:32
kazadeoops --no-tree16:32
kazadesigh, it's one of those days today16:33
mungojerryscreen-x: upgrade was a success :P16:34
bigcalmGah, error_log() was sending to the apache error log, not the file I had specified16:37
* bigcalm sighs16:37
screen-xmungojerry: yay :)16:43
MartijnVdSHazRPG: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-1270367416:43
MartijnVdSHazRPG: now you want a ZX as well as the C64 ;)16:43
mungojerryanyone who hasn't seen micromen on BBC should watch it16:44
* brobostigon has seen it multiple times, :)16:46
mungojerrygonna try and give up IRC next week16:46
MartijnVdSmungojerry: NOOOO16:46
mungojerryspending too many idle brain CPU cycles on it16:46
fourkuchenjust testing16:47
bigcalmNeed tunes to help get me to Scotland tonight! http://open.spotify.com/user/bigcalm/playlist/1uaHyQu6aLNkcK2CFFERTr16:47
screen-xbigcalm: where are you starting from?16:48
bigcalmscreen-x: Telfordish, it's a 5.5 hour drive16:48
screen-xouch16:48
bigcalmYeah, I'm going to be tired16:48
bigcalmWe'll stop a couple of times though16:48
screen-xHugs at the other end?16:48
mungojerryif anyone sees me on here next week you have permission to beat me up16:49
bigcalmscreen-x: the bed will be hugging me if that's what you mean?16:49
fourkuchenAnyone using XChat Gnome?16:49
screen-xmungojerry: request acknowledged16:50
mungojerry:)16:50
mungojerryi tend to binge on it and then starve myself16:51
mungojerryi'll wean myself off by reading logs16:51
MartijnVdSbigcalm: what kind of music do you like?16:51
bigcalmMartijnVdS: I'm open minded16:51
screen-xmungojerry: if only I could kick you, that would add much to the comedy :p16:51
bigcalmI'm hoping people will just add stuff to the playlist and then GF and I can pick/choose16:51
bigcalm:)16:51
mungojerrybigcalm: can't get in to work under wine :(16:52
mungojerrythe playlist thing16:52
bigcalmOh, that sucks16:52
MartijnVdSgrooveshark would work16:52
mungojerryi think there's some jigger pokery req'd in ffox16:52
* screen-x goes home, have greate weekends everybody16:52
MartijnVdSthat's browser-based16:52
bigcalmI'll get the spotify url16:52
bigcalmMartijnVdS: using spotify as I have it on my phone16:53
bigcalmspotify:user:bigcalm:playlist:1uaHyQu6aLNkcK2CFFERTr16:53
bigcalmPut that into the spotify search16:54
MartijnVdSnice & memorable ;)16:54
MartijnVdSthe playlist is empty, correc\t?16:55
mungojerryi can see an empty list16:55
mungojerrynot sure how to add tracks16:55
mungojerryany type of music preferred?16:56
mungojerryfave bands?16:56
bigcalmIt's empty atm, yes16:56
MartijnVdSnot anymore16:57
bigcalmThere, added one myself16:57
alexcockell_Personally - that's why I like We7...16:57
bigcalm?16:58
bigcalmmungojerry: I'm open minded and looking for suggestions. We'll skip things that don't work for us :)16:58
mungojerryjust added a couple16:58
bigcalmAha, love to see it updating in real time :)16:58
bigcalmThanks16:59
bigcalmAh, I was listening to that Yann Tiersen album 2 days ago. Very nice :)16:59
mungojerrybigcalm: really?16:59
mungojerryi bought it after 50 x listens on spotify16:59
mungojerrynever found another preson who liked17:00
bigcalmGoodness17:00
mungojerryamelie is one of favourite films17:00
bigcalmMy GF has yet to see Amelie. Might take the DVD with us incase we have terrible weather17:00
MartijnVdSgood idea17:01
mungojerryu will get big hugs and kisses afterwards17:01
bigcalmHehe17:01
mungojerryfeelgood film17:01
bigcalmVery17:01
mungojerrysafe trip btw17:01
bigcalmThanks :)17:01
MartijnVdS5 hours you said? :)17:02
bigcalm5.5 plus stops17:02
bigcalmIt'll be gone midnight before we get to the PremireInn I think17:03
mungojerryelectric 617:06
mungojerryace17:06
mungojerryugh should have left already for home17:06
bigcalmHehe17:07
bigcalmHehe17:11
bigcalmMartijnVdS: good track, don't think my GF will like it though ;)17:11
MartijnVdSbigcalm: which one? :) I've added tons17:12
bigcalmThe Orbital track17:12
MartijnVdSah :)17:12
directhexhttp://www.we7.com/#/song/Orbital/Doctor ?17:14
slobexzdravo17:14
bigcalmdirecthex: Halycon and on and on17:15
bigcalmBut that's a good choice!17:15
bigcalmcy not yc17:15
DJonesDamm, & I'd just worked out that zdravo was slovenian/croatian ish17:17
MartijnVdSbigcalm: tell me when to stop :)17:19
bigcalmCarry on :)17:19
bigcalmIt'll update even when we're on the road17:20
bigcalmWondering if I should tell my phone to make it an offline pl though17:20
MartijnVdSbigcalm: when are you leaving? :)17:35
brobostigonthank you MS Windows, you messed up one my brothers hdd's. :(17:44
bigcalmMartijnVdS: 12 mins ago :S17:44
MartijnVdSbigcalm: I'm still filling the playlist :)17:44
bigcalmHehe, good show ;)17:44
bigcalmAn apache error log gets blanked each day, is there a way to tail the log into a new file that just constantly updates? I have read access on the log file but can't alter the vhost17:46
MartijnVdStail -F apache.log :)17:47
MartijnVdS-F vs -f17:47
MartijnVdSbigcalm: tail -F error.log > big_error_log17:47
bigcalmCheers :)17:47
bigcalmI can leave that running in a screen over the weekend on the client's server and then poke it on Monday17:47
brobostigonubuntu live cd to the rescue,17:48
MartijnVdSbigcalm: now leave, with the music on random :)17:48
ali1234hmm i might take kubuntu for a spin17:49
ali1234maybe it's time to go back to KDE17:49
ali1234after all it's been over 5 years since i switched to gnome17:49
MartijnVdS7-year itch? :)17:50
ali1234no, i just don't like where gnome3 is going17:50
ali1234and gtk is dead17:50
ali1234can't really see why anyone would attempt to write new software with it17:51
ali1234the main problem i had with KDE was it is an incredibly powerful system with the world's most ugly UI on top of it17:52
ali1234where as gnome is pretty much the reverse17:52
MartijnVdSali1234: last time I used KDE it felt crashy17:52
ali1234yeah me too17:52
MartijnVdSit felt like it could crash any second during use17:52
MartijnVdSUnity feels the same now17:52
ali1234but that was like 200517:52
ali1234yeah, this is the thing17:52
ali1234KDE always felt like there was a disconnect between when you click something and when it gets done17:53
ali1234and like sometimes the message got lost somewhere17:53
ali1234and the other problem is it has hundreds of different icons and buttons and they all do the same thing17:56
domjohnsonSorry to spam...but here is a petition on having a no-fly zone in Libya - https://secure.avaaz.org/en/libya_no_fly_zone_1/17:57
* bigcalm buggers off17:58
jgjonesbrobostigon, Ubuntu Live CD is just as useful for rescuing OSX18:08
brobostigonjgjones: i did not know that, :)18:09
jgjonesbrobostigon, wife's macbook pro went dead, corrupt file system. she took to Apple Store, they put in OSX disc and into rescue mode. It cannot read file system. Staff said the only possible choice is to reinstall and reformat disk.18:10
brobostigonjgjones: oh dear, :(18:10
jgjonesbrobostigon, lucky she texted me then. told her to bring it home and let me sort it out. Pop in Ubuntu Live CD. It read all files just fine. OSX's rescue mode can't read it and offer to format.18:10
brobostigonjgjones: good move,yes, :)18:11
jgjonesbrobostigon, and nagged her to use Time Machine more often after recovering all files. "Genius" my arse at the store, it's not the ONLY choice :)18:11
brobostigoni agree, yes.18:12
MartijnVdSte18:25
Myrttimeh.18:26
popeymeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh18:28
MartijnVdSpopey: moooo18:28
* popey kicks off an rsync to copy ~5TB from one place to another at 50MB/s18:28
* popey expects this to take some time18:29
davmor2popey: minute or 2 then18:33
Myrttihttp://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5517464149/18:51
MartijnVdSMyrtti: awww18:52
cbx33350MB18:53
cbx333is that all18:53
cbx333:p18:53
popeysadly yes18:57
popeyfrom one filer to another over the network18:57
* cbx333 pats his fibre backup :)18:58
cbx333140MB/s sometimes :)18:58
ali1234cool, i just figured out how to make kde look nice19:00
popeyoh this will go up to 300MB19:00
popeyI am rate limiting it19:00
ali1234you have to tell it to use gtk+ themes and then start gnome-settings-daemon19:00
popeyheh19:00
cbx333awww19:00
ali1234and then you get decent looking buttons19:00
cbx333suck19:00
cbx333nice one popey19:00
cbx333you beat me19:00
cbx333hey ali123419:01
popeyhah19:01
cbx333howz it going19:01
popeynot my hardware :)19:01
cbx3334GB/s ?19:01
cbx333Gb/s19:01
ali1234cbx333: not bad, just looking for a replacement for ubuntu19:01
cbx333oh19:01
cbx333any particular reason?19:01
ali1234unity19:01
cbx333yah19:01
brobostigonali1234: wh not try the gnome3 ppa ?19:01
popeyhahaha19:01
ali1234because gnome3 is the only thing worse than unity19:01
popey"If you think Unity is bad, you should see GNOME 3!"19:02
* brobostigon disagres with ali1234 19:02
ali1234yeah that's pretty much what i tell people all the time19:02
cbx333really?19:02
cbx333oh man19:02
cbx333what are we going to do?19:02
* cbx333 is starting to sniff19:02
ali1234switch to debian of course19:02
brobostigonali1234: it opinion, give people a chance to form their own,19:02
cbx333ahh19:02
cbx333of course19:02
cbx333drawbacks?19:02
ali1234the only one i found so far is their nvidia driver is 6 months out of date19:03
ali1234but as long as it works i don't really care19:03
cbx333but debian won't have my awesomely awesome startupsound :p19:03
cbx333haha19:03
* cbx333 cringes19:03
brobostigoncbx333: i have a bit of pink floyd as  mystartup sound,19:03
cbx333you disabled my sound19:03
* cbx333 runs off crying19:03
ali1234debian also has the advantage of not using pulseaudio by default, which means sound actually works19:04
cbx333aye19:04
cbx333as long as I can compile the latest Git I'm happy - and that I have latex packages :)19:04
brobostigonanyways, alot of gtk apps will be using gtk3 from here on, so you will need gtk3 ali1234, eventaully.19:04
dutchiegtk3 != gnome319:05
ali1234yeah, see my earlier comments19:05
cbx333yeh19:05
brobostigondutchie: i agree. yes.19:05
ali1234gtk+ is dead anyway19:05
ali1234nobody will be writing new apps in gtk+, and the old ones won't get ported to 319:05
* cbx333 is realising he's been out of open sourcedevving for too long19:06
cbx333I used to love gtk+19:06
cbx333should I start loving someone else19:06
cbx333someone - please form some opinions for me19:06
ali1234gtk was good back when Qt was still on version 3 and it sucked19:06
brobostigonali1234: again, that is a matter of opinion. dont form people's minds for them, let them make  their ownmind up. andlet everyone have their own opinion and a chance to form that,19:06
ali1234however Qt4 is miles better than gtk in every respect19:06
cbx333really?19:07
cbx333interesting19:07
popeybrobostigon: he's not telling people how to think, he's expressing an opinion19:07
ali1234Qt is s serious contender for development on windows and mac too19:07
cbx333very interesting19:07
brobostigonanyways, i dontlike this non'consructive drivel, so i am going to go get a beer.19:07
ali1234you can't say that about gtk... gtk apps on windows are a joke19:07
popeyyeah, being cross platform is helpful19:08
cbx333oh hey ali1234, there's bee quite a bit more added to GITT now19:08
brobostigonpopey: it didnt quite seem like that.19:08
popeybrobostigon: disagreeing with you doesnt automatically make it drivel19:08
popeyali1234: agreed, gimp, tomboy and one other app i use on windows all look quite sucky19:08
brobostigonpopey: i agree, sorry, i am on my edge of my temper.19:08
brobostigonali1234: i am sorry,19:08
ali1234brobostigon: no problem19:09
cbx333so think debian will work with my new thinkpad when i get it ?19:09
cbx333:p19:09
* brobostigon shuts up.19:09
ali1234sure... i'm looking more towards kubuntu at the moment though19:09
popeywonder how debian runs on mbps19:09
cbx333i just can't stand kde419:10
gordmacbook .. something something?19:10
cbx333:p19:10
popeypros19:10
ali1234if i can just figure out how to tame the kde start menu and make the panels look decent19:10
gordoh plural :)19:10
popeyya19:10
gordnot mac book per second then19:10
cbx333heh19:10
cbx333wish i coiuld afford a macbook19:10
cbx333but i think a thinkpad edge is going to be all i can muster19:10
ali1234i have an ideapad with the swivelling screen... pretty neat19:11
ali1234i will probably use unity on it19:11
ali1234(it's a touch screen)19:11
cbx333nice ali123419:21
* cbx333 has debian 6 on a dvd from linux format19:21
cbx333maybe I'll try it on an old hdd19:21
cbx333in some ways I won't miss the constant upgrades19:21
cbx333hey ali1234 you about?19:24
ali1234yeah just annoying #kde with dumb questions19:24
cbx333haha19:24
cbx333oh - actually nevermind19:24
mungojerryali1234: i'd like to see your efforts in making kde look nice19:25
* mungojerry used to be a kde user19:25
* cbx333 too19:30
cbx333but gnome was nicer19:30
cbx333_was_19:30
cbx333i wonder if debian would be faster on my little X4119:30
HazRPGback19:32
mungojerrycbx333: worried about unity?19:32
HazRPGMmm... good company + good coffee :)19:32
* cbx333 worries about the look of unity19:32
cbx333i would feel dumb using it19:33
mungojerrycbx333: i have natty installed, and gnome classic desktop works too19:33
cbx333yeh?19:33
mungojerryglobal menu is v easy to disable too19:33
cbx333i jsut want my old gnome back :)19:33
mungojerryit continues working as current gnome does19:33
mungojerryyes, you can have that19:33
cbx333but will it continue to19:33
ali1234that's a given19:35
ali1234pretty soon nobody will be developing the gnome 2 code base at all19:35
mungojerryi'm interested in how ubuntu will use qt apps in future19:36
ali1234which is why i am seeking an alternative19:36
mungojerrygnome classic is still there for now. and since gnome shell is just a layer on top, surely it will continue (especially as gnome shell is a bit meh)19:37
ali1234you know what bugs me the most about kde19:37
mungojerrywhat's that al19:38
ali1234they are not capable of calculating the middle of a region19:38
brobostigonmungojerry: gnome-shell is not a layer ontop of gnome2, it is a toral redesign, and with new stuff, like a new WM, etc.19:38
mungojerrybrobostigon: oh :(19:38
brobostigontotal*19:38
ali1234anything in KDE that is aligned either vertically or horizontally to the middle of any given region is pretty much guaranteed to be off by just enough pixels to make it look like it was just randomly slapped on the screen19:38
brobostigoneffectivly.*19:39
ali1234for example, the clock, the tray resize icon, the workspace switcher all exhibit this flaw19:39
mungojerryali1234: KDE lost me when amarok etc got rewritten from scratch without loads of features...and the crashy bugs in 4.0-4.5 of course19:39
mungojerryRHEL is still on kde3.519:40
MartijnVdSLet's band together and write a GOOD system :)19:40
mungojerryRHEL6 is KDE4 though i think19:40
ali1234amarok is another app that has this problem on almost every part of its UI19:40
mungojerryamarok in kde4 is a travesty19:40
brobostigonmungojerry: gnome2 used metacity as its WM. however gnome-shell uses something else. however gnome2* will be a fallback, like unity2d, i gnome-shell cant run.19:40
mungojerrywas previously best music app ever19:40
ali1234actually, amarok is the example i always use when i want to demonstrate what's wrong with KDE because it shows off pretty much every flaw of the whole thing in one easy to reach place :)19:40
ali1234i wonder if i can make kde use compiz... and gnome-panel19:42
brobostigon!info mutter natty19:42
lubotu3mutter (source: mutter): lightweight GTK+ window manager. In component main, is extra. Version 2.91.90-1ubuntu1 (natty), package size 307 kB, installed size 840 kB19:42
brobostigon!info clutter natty19:42
lubotu3Package clutter does not exist in natty19:42
mungojerryali1234:  or lxde?19:42
ali1234lxde is rubbish19:42
speedxco1eAnyone using backing up using s3?19:43
mungojerrywell no point panicking yet since clasic gnome is stil there19:43
mungojerryu can panic when it dies :)19:43
ali1234has all the same graphical problems as kde19:43
speedxco1eI've decided to try S3, I looked at a fuse solution with s3fs, has anyone tried it?19:43
mungojerryspeedxco1e: not me sorry, although i stumbled over another solution called deja dup which handles s319:44
brobostigonmungojerry: gnome2 wont die quickly, however gnome3 will evolve, and evetually supersede gnome2.19:45
mungojerrybrobostigon: i don't quite understand the distinction between gnome3 and gnome2 ..i thought gnome3 was just getting rid of crud from gnome219:46
brobostigonmungojerry: i like to think of gnome3, as a modernisation, an evolution of gnome2.19:47
davmor2mungojerry: Nope.  Gnome 3 is a new desktop, new apis, improved GTK etc etc etc it's a huge change from the 2 series in the same way as kde 4 and kde319:47
mungojerrycan gnome classic DE can be implemented with gnome3?19:47
gorddavmor2, ehhh its not quite like kde4 - gtk isn't much different, there aren't that much different.. gnome 3 is 95% gnome shell19:48
MartijnVdSgnome hell19:48
ali1234mungojerry: yeah, just ignore gnome-shell (only make 1 workspace with it) and then just load up gnome-panel like normal19:49
gordmungojerry, no not really, you are going to be running gnome-2 panel with metacity/compiz with gtk 3 applications19:49
mungojerryso they could be phased out then19:49
mungojerryas with kde3 stuffs19:50
mungojerrytoo much breakage going on in the DE world :(19:51
davmor2ali1234: I thought gnome lost the ability to add extra panels in gnome319:51
ali1234probably if you use the menus19:51
ali1234if you run gnome-panel from a terminal it will probably still work19:52
gordubuntu 11.04 classic desktop is basically gnome3 without gnome-shell19:52
ali1234it will be *inside* the workspace though19:52
brobostigonmungojerry: i am running gnome3-team ppa, here on natty, and have bsiclly zero breakage at all.19:52
mungojerrybrobostigon: sorry, to clarify, by breakage i mean radical change :)19:53
brobostigonmungojerry: i see, ok.19:53
ali1234"radical" is a nice way of putting it19:53
mungojerryat least kde4 is just gaining some stability if people wanna leave DE19:55
ali1234it's still ugly as hell if you don't use gtk themes though19:55
mungojerryali1234: got a screenshot with the gtk theme?19:56
ali1234um yeah... but it just looks like gnome19:56
ali1234except with kwin window borders and an ugly panel19:56
ali1234because the panel uses plasma now19:56
ali1234and it doesn't respect theme19:56
=== OmNomSequitur is now known as Dre_Doctorsame
mungojerryali1234: sounds ugly dude19:59
ali1234http://imagebin.org/14242820:00
cbx333Myrtti, you about?20:03
mungojerryali1234: ah, that's clearer now20:03
ali1234trying to get rid of all the blue now20:03
cbx333yuk20:03
cbx333blue20:03
mungojerryi'm sure gnome2 will remain in LTS until 12.04 :P20:06
brobostigonmungojerry: intheory, unity is replacing gnome2 in natty. except as another boot option, and or fallback with unity2d.20:07
brobostigonrephrase, metacity and gnome-panels. etc,20:07
mungojerrybrobostigon: are you using gnome shell on a daily basis right now?20:08
ali1234http://imagebin.org/14243120:08
ali1234getting better20:08
brobostigonmungojerry: yes, and it working well, i amliking the workspace management.20:08
ali1234it would look more like ubuntu if it was kubuntu - debian doesn't have human-murrine packaged20:09
mungojerryali1234: are u considering switching distro over this?20:09
ali1234yes20:09
mungojerrybrobostigon: i have shell on my testing box..i added minimise window button though :)20:10
ali1234ubuntu jumped the shark with "light-themes"20:11
brobostigonmungojerry: for me, in gnome-shell there isnt anywhere to minimise windows too, in real terms, and a simple  doubleclick, doesmaximise, so iagree with their design decision.20:11
mungojerryminimise=hide , in my opinion20:11
mungojerryi understnad what you're saying, but i need to do that20:12
brobostigonmungojerry: in which case, there isnt adesktop, to have anything on, so no need to minimise to desktop, and if i want to hide my  windows, i lock my screen.20:12
mungojerryali1234: why the light themes?20:15
mungojerrywas rather inconsequential to me20:15
mungojerrystill like ubuntu , just a bit uncertain about things20:16
ali1234because my monitor is my main light source :)20:16
ali1234also buttons-on-the-left20:17
brobostigonmungojerry: i like  ubuntu aswell, debian as a whole. however i have always heavily customised things seperatly from the standerd, in various ways, so i amused to having to do that.20:18
brobostigonam used*20:18
ali1234i don't like customizing things20:18
mungojerryback in the kde3.5 days it would take me days to arrive at the best setup20:19
ali1234the less i have to customize the better20:19
mungojerrygnome is a walk in the park compared to the effort required in kde ...20:19
ali1234true20:19
ali1234i don't think i will be switching to kde20:19
brobostigonme and kde dont get on,20:19
ali1234still not possible to make it look decent20:19
mungojerrytbh gnome2+docky rules20:19
mungojerryeven if unity is poo ( and i hope it isn't), i can still run what i have now20:20
mungojerryuntil somebody makes a workaround or fixes unity :P20:20
mungojerryi already see unity launcher icon size patches etc, so i'm sure more will arrive20:21
ali1234this is my desktop now: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/panels1.jpg20:21
mungojerryand the guy who made docky is the unity launcher guy20:21
mungojerryali1234: there's always elementary :P20:22
ali1234i wish you could install gnome and kde side by side without them polluting each other's menus20:24
MartijnVdSchroot ;)20:24
mungojerryargh got disconnected20:34
mungojerryali1234: i notice on your page you have stuff about the dg834g20:34
ali1234yeah20:35
mungojerrycan you put ddwrt on it>20:35
ali1234if you want20:35
mungojerryi didn't know that20:35
ali1234might now work, i dunno20:36
ali1234use openwrt20:36
mungojerryi switched to the talktalk hauwei modem when something went funny on my dg834 and wireless stopped functioning, possibly hardware20:36
ali1234it's better20:36
mungojerrydidn't realise at the time that openwrt was possible20:36
ali1234you'll probably lose wireless support20:37
ali1234and adsl support20:37
mungojerrylol20:37
mungojerryso just an iptables/vpn box then?20:37
mungojerrymy nslu2 does most of that already20:38
ali1234depends on hardware20:38
mungojerryok20:39
mungojerryhuawei router prob runs linux but we'll never now cos they don't seem to release the source under gpl20:40
ali1234meh20:40
ali1234you don't need source20:40
ali1234it probably runs vxworks20:40
brobostigonmungojerry: in which case they are braking the law.20:40
mungojerryyes, but they are in china20:41
brobostigonmungojerry: doesnt matter, thats still braking the law.20:41
ali1234all you need to do is find another board with same CPU and patch the bootloader20:41
ali1234breaking20:41
Azelphurmungojerry: doesn't matter where they are companies all over the world get away with GPL violations :D20:41
AzelphurLogitech for example isn't chinese and is currently stealing the Linux kernel20:42
Azelphurnobody goes after them so they get away with it :(20:42
mungojerry:(20:42
ali1234busybox too20:42
ali1234and u-boot20:42
AzelphurG19 \o/20:42
Azelphurmungojerry: I know Sony stole from VLC and never got done for it20:42
Azelphurloads of android phones get released and have the kernel released late/never20:43
MartijnVdSkernel people should sue more often20:43
AzelphurMartijnVdS: nope, I like where this is going20:43
MartijnVdSwhy?20:44
brobostigonsky is also using OSS, on their sky+ HD boxes,20:44
MartijnVdSso you can steal the Linux kernel with impunity?20:44
Azelphurmake everyone depend on FOSS to start off20:44
Azelphurthen when everyone is depending on it, make them release the source legally20:44
=== cbx333 is now known as cbx33
Azelphurputs a lot more pressure on everyone to release the source rather than rewrite20:44
ali1234wait until everyone is using it, then unleash the most massive torrent of lawsuits ever20:44
Azelphur^ exactly20:45
AzelphurI hope that's the EFF's plan, that'd be hilarious20:45
MartijnVdSFSF*20:45
Azelphurderp, indeed20:45
mungojerrybrobostigon: i thought sky was using QNX20:45
brobostigonmungojerry: i didnt know that, interesting.20:46
penguin42Azelphur: Sony have a download site for all of the GPL code used on their TVs and products; I know because I looked for the stuff used on the TV we got recently20:46
penguin42it came with almost no printed documentation (except press that button for onscreen help...) and a copy of the GPL and other licenses20:47
Azelphurpenguin42: and yet they'll still write rootkits utilizing stolen VLC code :D20:47
MartijnVdSmy Philips TV came with an offer + printed GPL20:47
MartijnVdSI have yet to take them up on the offer20:47
penguin42(disappointingly the TV takes AGES to boot)20:47
Azelphurhaha20:47
AzelphurMy TV is just a standard TV, I do all the smartness outside the TV in a PC20:48
AzelphurI use MythTV :D20:48
MartijnVdSAzelphur: you have an old CRT from the '60s?20:48
mungojerrybrobostigon: sorry, it runs XTV20:48
AzelphurMartijnVdS: not any more20:48
Azelphurhttp://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/MythTV2?h=2832c820:48
mungojerryIXI-Connect OS20:48
mungojerryhttp://www.nds.com/solutions/xtv.php20:49
AzelphurMartijnVdS: we finally managed to get a new TV, my dad still keeps the old one, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before...20:49
brobostigonmungojerry: ah, i will look that, up.20:49
MartijnVdSAzelphur: compulsive hoarding :)20:49
AzelphurMartijnVdS: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110304_044133.jpg20:49
Azelphurindeed20:49
mungojerrybrobostigon: i thought they were linux too,20:49
mungojerrybut someone told me otherwise.20:49
rob(Can anyone suggest which channel I can get help with Mantis and gitweb)20:50
AzelphurMartijnVdS: the silver one on the right is 4 years old, the black one in the back is about 10, the wooden one at the front is older than I am, and the grey one is probably double my age :D20:50
AzelphurMartijnVdS: and this is the dining room haha, if I could get in his office I'd take more pictures, but think 15-21" CRT's stacked to the ceiling20:51
daubersevening21:08
=== cbx333 is now known as cbx33
cbx33Myrtti, ping22:05
* brobostigon haz chocolate, :)22:23
* AlanBell has wine with bubbles in it22:24
brobostigon:)22:24
speedxco1enån som vet om ubuntu one bygger på amazon s3?22:28
speedxco1eops22:29
speedxco1esry22:29
speedxco1eDoes anyone know if Ubuntu One storage service is based on amason s3?22:29
popeyi do22:29
popeyActually I dont, but I know it uses EC222:30
popeywhether they use S3 or not, I don't know22:30
speedxco1eah22:30
popeyhow much of Amazon stuff they use, not sure22:30
popeyI have been poking it recently22:30
speedxco1epopey: thing is I was investigating/comparing prices, and ubuntu one was just slightly more expensive, hence my suspision.22:31
popeyhmm, looking at it, it might actually be an ec2-like instance internal to canonical22:32
popeyusing their own private cloud stuff22:32
popeyit looks to me like (for the public file sharing) they proxy all requests22:33
popeywhat's behind that I can't tell22:33
speedxco1epopey: ah ok. I guess someone likes to have some security by obscurity22:34
AlanBellthere is an #ubuntuone channel, they might have more of an idea22:37
cbx33ahh security by obscurity :)22:55
hamitron:)23:29
Azelphurhamitron: have any use for (or know anyone who has any use for) a "new" 500W PSU?23:30
Azelphurby "new" I mean, "Guy on IRC told me it was the right PSU when it actually wasn't"23:30
hamitron500W is plenty for a lot of systems...23:31
Azelphurindeed23:31
Azelphurbut It's P4 and the system I built it for needs 8 pin23:32
* hamitron is using a 350W in this machine23:32
Azelphursystem I bought it for*23:32
hamitronah yeh23:32
hamitronthat is what stopped me considering LGA 136623:32
hamitroncan you not get an adaptor?23:32
hamitronwhilst not ideal, better than a new PSU23:33
Azelphurmy new "Guy on IRC that tells me how to do things" says adapters arn't really a good idea23:33
hamitronwhich is true, but a low power system probably won't be drawing huge currents23:33
Azelphurit's not low power23:34
hamitron:/23:34
AzelphurIt's a gaming mobo, quad core CPU, nvidia graphics card, 2 sata hdds23:34
hamitronhow much did it cost you?23:34
Azelphurhttp://www.ebuyer.com/product/129422 £19.7823:34
directhexyikes23:34
directhexthrow it out the window before it blows23:34
Azelphurhaha23:34
Azelphurdirecthex: but the reviews are so friendly23:35
directhexi don't care if it isn't plugged in, with cheap supplies you can't be sure that'll stop them exploding23:35
* hamitron uses cheap psu from ebuyer23:35
Azelphur:P23:35
hamitronnot ones with gay boy lights though23:35
hamitron;/23:35
AzelphurBLUE LEDS ARE NOT GAY :O23:35
* Azelphur glares at hamitron23:36
hamitronthey so are ;)23:36
Azelphur*death stare*23:36
hamitronok then23:36
popeyahem23:36
AlanBellmoving on23:36
hamitrontownie boy racer style then23:36
Azelphur*continued death stare* :P23:36
directhexhere's what happens when you ask a "650W" cheap PSU for 400W http://img.hexus.net/v2/psu/taoyuan_34_2005/images/lol.avi23:36
hamitroni got an expensive coolermaster psu.... and the case did not fit together in the factory23:37
Azelphurthe counter says 960W o.O23:37
hamitronto the machine jammed it together, bending the case23:37
directhexAzelphur, that's the power it's pulling in to supply 400W23:37
hamitronso*23:37
directhexAzelphur, shortly before exploding23:37
Azelphurdirecthex: oh :P23:38
hamitronand then a sticker was stuck on the bent part saying it has passed all tests!23:38
Azelphurhaha23:38
hamitronthe mains cable was even stuck out of the side of it23:38
AlanBellif there is 960 going in, and 400 coming out then there is 560w of unaccounted for energy that can build up and go bang23:39
directhexAlanBell, bingo23:39
AzelphurxD23:39
Azelphurhamitron: take it your not interested in it?23:39
* popey goes bang23:39
directhexAlanBell, it kept climbing btw, past 96023:39
hamitronAzelphur, not with blue lights23:39
popeyquietly and sleepily23:39
hamitron:)23:39
Azelphurhamitron: you could always pull them out :P23:39
hamitronmy 350W ebuyer psu is fine ty23:40
hamitron;)23:40
Azelphurok :p23:40
Azelphurprobably put it on fleabay and see what I can get for it lol23:40
hamitronprob best bet23:40
hamitronor maybe return to ebuyer?23:40
AzelphurI don't think ebuyer will take it because it's ootb23:41
hamitronootb?23:41
directhexhamitron, none of your systems are modern enough to put any 12V draw, and it's 12V where bad supplied go to hell23:41
Azelphurout of the box23:41
hamitrondirecthex, how dare you23:41
hamitron;/23:41
Azelphurhaha23:41
hamitronI got a geforce gts 450 now23:41
Azelphur:O23:41
hamitronand I had a geforce 7800gtx before23:41
directhexAzelphur, i personally won't spend less than about 50 quid on a psu. when a cheap one explodes, it takes out the motherboard and cpu.23:41
AzelphurHAMITRON HAS SOME HARDWARE THAT WAS BUILT THIS DECADE23:41
AzelphurWHAT IS THIS MADNESS.23:41
hamitronhehe23:42
hamitronand 8gb ram23:42
hamitron;)23:42
popeyfor minecraft23:42
Azelphurdirecthex: yea, I got shouted at for buying this one, so lesson learned I guess :D23:42
hamitronyeh23:42
hamitronhahah23:42
Azelphurpopey: I play minecraft on my i7 950 @ 3ghz with 12GB DDR3 and GTX 570 :D23:42
hamitronall games were fine for ram... apart from minecraft23:42
hamitronnew cpu is for other games though :)23:42
popeythere are... other... games!?23:43
hamitronhehe23:43
Azelphurdirecthex: well my plan was to buy a corsair 430W for it, which is £41.23:43
hamitronF1 2010 and Test Drive Unlimited 2 (see a trend here?)23:43
* AlanBell says pah to Azelphur's puny i7 95023:43
directhexAzelphur, let me think. which gpu?23:43
Azelphurdirecthex: 8800GT23:43
hamitroni3 > i723:43
hamitron;)23:43
directhexAzelphur, wait, what? isn't that 4 years old?23:44
hamitronhalf the cpu and not much more than half the heat?23:44
Azelphurdirecthex: yea, I'm building my old PC parts into a PC and selling it to my cousin23:44
directhexAzelphur, right, fine, fine. cpu?23:44
Azelphurdirecthex: Q660023:44
hamitronweak23:44
Azelphurur weak :o23:44
hamitron;/23:44
speedxco1eactually I got a q660023:44
Azelphurindeed, q6600 ain't weak it's a nice CPU :P23:45
speedxco1ething is my overclocked e5300 is as fast as it23:45
speedxco1ewith 2 cores =)23:45
Azelphur:o23:45
hamitronbtw guys, how I see file extensions in winblows 7?23:45
Azelphurpopey: btw have you seen the map for my minecraft server? it may interest you23:45
hamitronthere is no bar at the top :/23:45
Azelphurnot sure if I showed you it before :x23:45
directhexAzelphur, well, it'll fit into that23:46
directhexhamitron, press alt23:46
speedxco1estill q6600 is a fairly decent cpu for today.. if no gaming or hd video is being done23:46
hamitronty :D23:46
Azelphurdirecthex: yea that's what I figured, I ran everything through a PSU calc with 100% TDP and it only came to 384W23:46
Azelphurso 430 should be fine *shrug*23:46
speedxco1ethose 8800 can be hungry23:46
Azelphurspeedxco1e: wat, I was using that machine up until a couple months ago, it was fine for HD video23:46
Azelphurand gaming too.23:47
directhexAzelphur, my wife's shuttle has a 3ghz dualcore and an 8800gt, and that's only a 250W psu... close call though23:47
speedxco1eAzelphur: I hope that 430 is a good brand. and a new psu (no old caps)23:47
Azelphurdirecthex: haha :P23:47
Azelphuryes 430 corsair brand new23:47
directhexspeedxco1e, the 8800gt was well regarded as a low-demand card. it's single slot ffs, few cards these days can do that23:47
hamitronit is actually amusing looking at some of the psu on the market people get23:47
speedxco1edirecthex: you are correct. I mixed it up with the gts and gtx23:47
hamitronway over speced23:47
directhexhamitron, perfectly sensible tbh23:47
Azelphurhamitron: you'll laugh at the one I got :D23:48
* speedxco1e has a 8800 gtx23:48
Azelphurfor my big box23:48
directhexhamitron, a single gpu these days can be >300W23:48
directhexhamitron, and you can do up to quad GPU in some arrangements23:48
hamitronbut I still think a lot of people over estimate what they need ;/23:48
hamitronfor a monster like that, yes23:49
Azelphurhamitron: http://www.dabs.com/products/1200-watt-pro-series-ax1200-71HN.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product+search in my main PC :D23:49
directhexhamitron, cheaper to build in some headroom, e.g. this psu is big enough for me to go crossfire/sli in the future23:49
directhexAzelphur, with a 16A plug on it?23:49
Azelphur*shrug*?23:49
Azelphurthis was my first build, I'm not amazingly knowledgeable yet :)23:49
hamitronthis new build here I wanted lowish heat, but some performance, so it was a ballance23:50
hamitron:)23:50
directhexoh yes, that's the other detail23:51
directhexconsider PSU efficiency23:51
directhexthey're not equally efficient under all loads23:51
directhexif you want to use less power, you need peak efficiency23:51
speedxco1ethat ax 1200 is marvellous23:51
speedxco1eit even handles crappy AC23:51
directhexif your pc needs 400W, you don't want to be pulling 1000W from the wall to do it!23:52
speedxco1eno hardcore ups is needed23:52
directhexso a bigger PSU with "wasted" capacity can be more environmentally friendly & cheaper to run23:52
hamitronmy 650W psu is over speced, but I already had it :/23:52
speedxco1eAC 90-264 V   <- 133723:52
hamitronbut dual rail kinda makes it more complex23:52
hamitron:/23:52
hamitronor quad23:52
hamitron:)23:52
hamitronI better not jump for joy yet, not fully tested23:53
Azelphurspeedxco1e: indeed, it's a nice PSU :D23:54
Azelphurand as I say, I have multiple graphics cards, 4 HDDs, gonna overclock and water cool soon23:54
directhexi'd pay for modular23:54
Azelphurit is modular23:54
directhexit's lovely not having wasted cables23:54
hamitronI wish i had gone modular :/23:54
hamitronbut they cost 110 quid at the time23:55
directhexthat's one reason my psus tend to be in the £80 range - they'd be a good £20 cheaper if not modular23:55
hamitronI could of got a psu and only 2gb ram ;)23:55
directhexi have 6 gig of ram23:56
directhexmanly men have ram divisible by 323:56
Azelphurdirecthex: 12GB *523:56
hamitrondirecthex, I wanted ITX form23:56
hamitron;/23:56
Azelphurtri channel :323:56
andylockranhwody23:57
andylockran:323:57
hamitronI'm happy with dual23:57
hamitrongone from 400mhz ddr2 to 1333mhz ddr323:57
hamitron:)23:57
hamitroninstalling f1 2010 to see performance increase23:59

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