[00:00] <zleap>  yay 32768 is indeed 8000 h (man that is too geeky)
[00:00] <zleap> mine is in a carry case\, i think it still works
[00:02] <hamitron> carry case?
[00:02] <zleap> yeah
[00:02] <HazRPG> okay... its official... original owner of this had some creepy games
[00:02] <hamitron> I got the orig box for the +2
[00:03] <zleap> speccy fits in it along with a rectangluar tape drive space for the psu
[00:03] <hamitron> nice
[00:03] <zleap> or footwarmer
[00:03] <zleap> and of course the audio leads
[00:03] <zleap> i have my original recipt somewhere
[00:03] <zleap> or did have
[00:03] <hamitron> my fav game was Millionaire
[00:03] <hamitron> :)
[00:03] <zleap> i liked chaos : battle of wizards
[00:03] <zleap> spent hours playing that
[00:04] <hamitron> anyways
[00:04] <hamitron> STOP
[00:04] <zleap> who needs c&c when you can conjour up a gooey blob to wipe out your enemy
[00:04] <hamitron> if you get me into this too much, my new comp parts will be arriving and staying in the box
[00:04] <zleap> lol
[00:05] <zleap> or you will install linux and a speccy emulator and have a very expensive 8 bit computer
[00:05] <hamitron> and if I do that with a speccy... the shame
[00:05] <hamitron> hell no
[00:05] <zleap> lol
[00:05] <hamitron> I love orig hardware
[00:05] <hamitron> :)
[00:05] <zleap> me too,
[00:05] <hamitron> it is all part of the experience
[00:05] <zleap> i managed to use norton utils once to change part of a +d disk so it could be read on a PC
[00:06] <zleap> disk editor
[00:09] <HazRPG> hamitron: man, so gutted the c64 doesn't work - but the c64c does :(
[00:09] <HazRPG> wish it was the other way round
[00:09] <HazRPG> c64c is just a c128 but in a different package
[00:11] <hamitron> :/
[00:11] <zleap> ah yeah the play ground arguments speccy vs c64
[00:11] <HazRPG> :P
[00:11] <hamitron> I had a NES
[00:11] <hamitron> ;)
[00:11] <zleap> ah
[00:11] <HazRPG> I had a mastersystem
[00:12] <zleap> never really got in to consoles
[00:12] <HazRPG> and atari before that
[00:12] <zleap> went from a speccy to a pc with dos and windows 3.1
[00:12] <HazRPG> :P
[00:12] <hamitron> my parents really weren't into the idea of a comp at home, until the 586 cpu was around
[00:12] <zleap> a pentiums
[00:12] <PalaPad> Vic20 ftw
[00:13] <hamitron> until the pentium 2 was out, I only had 1 hour per day on it too
[00:13] <hamitron> ;)
[00:13] <HazRPG> man, I thought my mz-721 was bad for loading...
[00:13] <hamitron> I think that is why the speccy never really impressed me
[00:14] <zleap> 5 mins and it crashes just as the game loads
[00:14] <hamitron> 1 hour to play, and street fighter 2 used to take over 10 mins to try loading
[00:14] <zleap> lol
[00:14] <hamitron> and it often never started
[00:14] <zleap> some games were cool though
[00:14] <hamitron> yeh, I had a simple snooker game
[00:15] <zleap> i have 4 nations rugby somewhere
[00:15] <zleap> lol
[00:15] <hamitron> :))
[00:15] <zleap> loading up the footy manager games is also interesting
[00:15] <hamitron> I had one on the PC, so never tried
[00:15] <zleap> blast from the past,  spurs centre forward gary lineker
[00:15] <zleap> or what ever position he played
[00:16] <hamitron> I tried a cricket manager game
[00:16] <zleap> those games would confuse most kids these days,  why are man u in division 1
[00:16] <zleap> oh there is no prem league
[00:16] <hamitron> but I had a SNES with a better cricket game
[00:16] <zleap> i played pong back in ther very early 80's
[00:17] <zleap> atari games console thing
[00:17] <hamitron> :)
[00:17] <PalaPad> Atari 1600?
[00:17] <zleap> something like that
[00:17] <hamitron> it was late 80s when I saw my first console/comp
[00:17] <zleap> it had a small controller with a control knob on it
[00:18] <PalaPad> Wasn't there a 2700 too?
[00:18] <zleap> to move the bat up / down
[00:18] <zleap> not sure
[00:18] <PalaPad> Yeah the first one had paddles
[00:18] <zleap> 2700 was the hacker group wasn't it
[00:18] <PalaPad> Second one had those analog joysticks with the square base and red button
[00:18] <zleap> as 2700 was the carrier frequency for the phone line or something
[00:18] <zleap> i had one of those for the speccy
[00:19] <HazRPG> oh well, the loader song is good on this game
[00:19] <zleap> i found a program that made my speccy play hey jude,  i had to hack it to make it play properly
[00:19] <PalaPad> You can buy them now with mame inside and plugnit straight into tv lol
[00:19] <PalaPad> Those old joysticks
[00:19] <zleap> cool
[00:19] <PalaPad> Saw some for sale last Xmas
[00:19] <zleap> that would be good at our after school club
[00:19] <HazRPG> still think it would be better on an actual c64 SID 6581 :(
[00:20] <zleap> we had a sega up till last year,  we know have a dodgy xbox and a ps2
[00:20] <PalaPad> We just have a wii
[00:20] <zleap> actually can the ps2 play dvd's
[00:20] <PalaPad> For my son
[00:20] <zleap> we have a wii in the classroom
[00:20] <HazRPG> zleap: yeah the ps2 can play dvd's :)
[00:20] <zleap> cool
[00:21] <HazRPG> all the games are on a dvd disc ;)
[00:21] <zleap> i gave em a copy of big buck bunny
[00:22] <zleap> thing is kids + cd's don'tr really mix,  cds get scratched easy
[00:22] <zleap> where as tapes are far more robust
[00:22] <PalaPad> The only computer worth having back then was the BBC cos you could get Elite and Virus which were arguably 2 of the best game concepts ever
[00:23] <zleap> they had those on the speccy
[00:23] <zleap> or i have a demo of virus somewhere
[00:23] <PalaPad> I am still addicted to Elite to this day
[00:23] <ZoeR> They had both on the CPC
[00:23] <ZoeR> I still play Elite too
[00:23] <PalaPad> Yeah but elite was best on the BBC
[00:23] <PalaPad> Until it was released for the Atari ST
[00:24] <zleap> its like the pc versionof  jet set willy, you can set it in to be like the spectrum, c64 and a few other versions
[00:24] <zleap> so it plays soujnd accordingly
[00:25] <PalaPad> I still remember playing Horace goes skiing and Ghostbusters on the old speccy
[00:25] <zleap> yay i liked that too
[00:25] <PalaPad> Oh and frogger
[00:26] <zleap> ambulance fee $10
[00:26] <zleap> you then run out of mone y and it says sorry no money no ski
[00:26] <zleap> ambulance fee is annoying when you get run over by an ambulance
[00:26] <zleap> what about horace and the spiders
[00:26] <PalaPad> Never played that
[00:27] <zleap> and hungary horrace (3rd game) the first two came with the speccy
[00:27] <PalaPad> I never had a computer we were poor
[00:27] <PalaPad> My friend had the specie
[00:27] <PalaPad> Speccy
[00:27] <PalaPad> I never owned a computer until my Atari ST in 1990
[00:27] <zleap> ouch
[00:27] <zleap> i had a speccy in 1986
[00:28] <zleap> before that didn't really have any computer
[00:28] <PalaPad> I was using computers from the early 80s but didn't own my own
[00:28] <zleap> i even did gcse course work on a speccy if I had to type it
[00:28] <hamitron> had?
[00:29] <zleap> back then if you typed course wrk you had to hand in written scripts too, (so they knew it was your work)
[00:29] <zleap> so written draft and you could type it up if you wanted
[00:29] <PalaPad> My gcse course work was done on our schools Amstrad CPW machine
[00:30] <zleap> i remember looking at the dooms day disk back when i was in year 9 it was a large lp size cdrom type disk
[00:30] <PalaPad> And printed with a daisy wheel printer
[00:30] <PalaPad> Damn those things were noisy
[00:30] <hamitron> right, need coffee, brb
[00:30] <zleap> dot matrus here,
[00:30] <PalaPad> Zleap, probably
[00:30] <PalaPad> Y laserdisc
[00:30] <zleap> i hacked tasword two so it would save to +d disk
[00:30] <zleap> yeah laser disk
[00:31] <zleap> that was attached to a bbc archemedies or perhaps a later one than that
[00:31] <PalaPad> That's a bit late for the laserdisc
[00:31] <zleap> actually i have my cousins user guide to that here,  (acorn computer)
[00:31] <PalaPad> Archimedes was late 80s
[00:31] <zleap> well the later one then
[00:32] <zleap> oddly they allowewd  1 year 9 and 2 year 7 lose on it unsupervised
[00:32] <zleap> never do that these days would they
[00:33] <PalaPad> These days kids smart phones are more powerful than the stuff we were using back then
[00:33] <zleap> yeah
[00:33] <zleap> but back ten we could write software
[00:33] <PalaPad> My a significant magnitude
[00:33] <zleap> and had the tools to do cool stuff like that
[00:33] <PalaPad> By
[00:34] <zleap> bye
[00:34] <PalaPad> No by as in by
[00:34] <PalaPad> Correcting my typo lol
[00:34] <zleap> oh sorry
[00:34] <PalaPad> I typed my instead of by
[00:34] <PalaPad> Still getting used tot the iPad touchscreen
[00:34] <zleap> i get ya
[00:36] <ZoeR> well i suppose i should head off
[00:36] <ZoeR> goodnight, all
[00:38] <zleap> nite, i am of soon too
[00:39] <PalaPad> Nite
[00:39] <zleap> nite
[00:39] <PalaPad> I have work to do still, gonna be a late night
[00:39] <hamitron> :/
[00:40] <PalaPad> Have to do a debate at Oxford in 4 days and need to prep for it
[00:40] <zleap> ah
[00:40] <zleap> sounds good
[00:40] <directhex> no you don't!
[00:40] <hamitron> don't need to prep?
[00:40] <hamitron> ;)
[00:41] <PalaPad> A debate with John Aristotle Phillips on data mining
[00:41] <PalaPad> It is gonna be a ball ache
[00:41] <hamitron> :/
[00:42] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
[00:42] <hamitron> hmmm
[00:42] <PalaPad> He owns one of the biggest gov data mining corps in the US and is a complete ass
[00:42] <hamitron> I have to decide what comp I want as the 3rd one on my desk :/
[00:43] <PalaPad> Then I have to give a 1 hour keynote at Brunel 2 days later
[00:43] <hamitron> K6-2 500mhz or 3.4ghz pentiumd
[00:43] <PalaPad> Not a fun week
[00:43] <hamitron> tempted to go with the k6-2
[00:44] <hamitron> :)
[00:44] <HazRPG> hmm, I don't think I like the SID 8580 :(
[00:45] <PalaPad> Brb
[00:45] <HazRPG> doesn't sound as nice as the SID 6581
[00:45] <hamitron> HazRPG: you can learn on what you got, so you know more for when you buy another :)
[00:45] <HazRPG> ... why did the original c64 have to be the broked one :(
[00:46] <HazRPG> hamitron: this is true, however I could risk it and try and mod the c64c to accept the c64 SID chip... assuming the chip isn't dead
[00:46] <HazRPG> I mean, its only a voltage change that's needed
[00:46] <hamitron> I'd just keep the broken one for spares
[00:46] <hamitron> and buy another
[00:46] <HazRPG> one needs 12v the other needs 5v... so shouldn't be too hard to change
[00:47] <HazRPG> hamitron: I could attempt to try and fix the other one
[00:47] <hamitron> that also
[00:47] <hamitron> but is it worth it?
[00:47] <HazRPG> I mean it lights up... so its getting power
[00:47] <HazRPG> the only thing is its not giving power to the tape drive... nor giving any video
[00:47] <HazRPG> so it could just be a blown capacitor somewhere
[00:48] <hamitron> or connectors pin come lose
[00:48] <HazRPG> I'd say it was worth it for getting an original c64 back to life :P
[00:48] <HazRPG> hamitron: good point!
[00:48] <hamitron> I've seen that more than blown capacitors
[00:48] <hamitron> ;)
[00:49] <hamitron> a lot of people are not careful with their stuff
[00:51] <HazRPG> hamitron: ... I just realised something (and I did stop it earlier when I took photos, I just completely forgot about it)
[00:51] <HazRPG> there's something missing I think!
[00:52] <HazRPG> hamitron: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/I8ASWYaaPADHB0iH0Bitug?feat=directlink
[00:52] <HazRPG> that looks like a fuse socket
[00:53] <HazRPG> it is... isn't it!
[00:53] <HazRPG> its got a missing fuse!
[00:54] <HazRPG> why would it have a fuse taken out of it S:
[00:54] <hamitron> maybe someone took it out to try get a replacement?
[00:54] <hamitron> if it had blown
[00:54] <HazRPG> that would be amusing
[00:55] <HazRPG> considering he claims its been in his attic for 12 years
[00:55] <hamitron> also worth checking it indeed has a fuse there for normal use
[00:55] <HazRPG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64Cmotherboard.jpg ;)
[00:55] <HazRPG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64motherboard.jpg <==
[00:56] <HazRPG> both have fuses in them
[00:56] <hamitron> any idea what rating it is?
[00:56] <HazRPG> googling for it now
[00:56] <HazRPG> I have a feeling these fuses are going to be a nightmare to find
[00:56] <hamitron> na
[00:57] <hamitron> there will be some similar part somewhere
[00:57] <hamitron> the main problem could be finding the specs
[00:57] <hamitron> also, remember the fuse could of blown for a reason ;)
[00:58] <hamitron> it could also have just fallen out?
[00:58] <directhex> bloop
[00:58] <hamitron> bloop?
[00:59] <HazRPG> hmm, according to the guy he said they both went in the attic as working
[00:59] <HazRPG> I have a feeling someone might have gone it to nick the fuse out of it to replace something else
[00:59] <HazRPG> what's the worst that could happen if I put in a new new fuse... the new fuse goes pop?
[01:00] <hamitron> 79p for a fuse would be nice :)
[01:00] <hamitron> if there is a fault, that is what the fuse is for
[01:00] <hamitron> ;)
[01:01] <HazRPG> exactly :)
[01:01] <hamitron> is it same size as one from a plug?
[01:01] <hamitron> or smaller?
[01:01] <HazRPG> bigger >_<
[01:01] <hamitron> oh
[01:01] <HazRPG> about 2-3 inches
[01:01] <hamitron> inches?
[01:01] <hamitron> :-o
[01:02] <HazRPG> about 1cm wide
[01:02] <HazRPG> like I said, this is going to be impossible to find a replacement for
[01:02] <hamitron> not this one then? http://www.rewind-bits.co.uk/250v-1-5a-fuse-commodore-64.html
[01:02] <Jerkman> hey all
[01:02] <hamitron> hi jerk
[01:03] <HazRPG> I'll let you know when my browser has caught up
[01:03] <HazRPG> (140 tabs now >_<)
[01:03] <hamitron> HazRPG: fool :)
[01:03] <HazRPG> all of which are "to be read later" tabs
[01:03] <hamitron> I am teaching myself to not do that
[01:03] <hamitron> yeh
[01:03] <Jerkman> anyone know of  Good console based multiplayer game? some king of text rpg..
[01:04] <PalaPad> You sound like me HazRPG lol
[01:04] <HazRPG> PalaPad: hehe
[01:04] <PalaPad> I always seem to have 80+ tabs open
[01:04] <HazRPG> same
[01:04] <PalaPad> I have to dona lot of reading for my work
[01:05] <PalaPad> Do a
[01:05] <HazRPG> today and yesterday I got overly excited over my c64 coming in
[01:05] <HazRPG> so I've got loads of tabs open with different mods and stuff I'd like to try out
[01:05] <PalaPad> Try and find Tarzan goes ape
[01:05] <PalaPad> Or big nose in the USA
[01:05] <HazRPG> hamitron: browser caught up... seems like that could be the job
[01:05] <Jerkman> i can writw c64 asm ;)
[01:06] <hamitron> HazRPG: it is physically smaller than you said
[01:06] <HazRPG> hamitron: yeah I just measured it, and its more like 1.5 inches
[01:07] <HazRPG> I was going based off my finger
[01:07] <PalaPad> Loo can't miss that
[01:07] <hamitron> damn man
[01:07] <hamitron> you seriously overestimated
[01:07] <hamitron> ;)
[01:07] <HazRPG> it was 2 segments, which I always thought was inches
[01:07] <PalaPad> Anaconda 3 on syfy on Sunday lol
[01:07] <HazRPG> Jerkman: nice :)
[01:07]  * hamitron reminds himself not to ask HazRPG to measure something
[01:08] <HazRPG> hamitron: I was only .5-1 inch off lol
[01:08] <PalaPad> I need to send my missus to the HazRPG school of measuring lol
[01:09] <hamitron> HazRPG: another way to put it is guessing double the actual value
[01:09] <hamitron> ;)
[01:10] <HazRPG> hamitron: lol
[01:10] <HazRPG> PalaPad: lol, what?
[01:10] <hamitron> you someone who claims to have a 16 inch long third leg?
[01:10] <hamitron> ;D
[01:10] <PalaPad> Hahaha
[01:11] <PalaPad> I couldn't possibly comment on such matters
[01:11] <HazRPG> hamitron: nah, my mates do that when they try to play *wing man* for me
[01:12] <HazRPG> works though, shockingly - mainly because it you over exaggerate (or under exaggerate), they get curious
[01:12]  * PalaPad $issed of a director general in the eu commission yesterday 
[01:12] <HazRPG> women are funny that way xD
[01:13] <HazRPG> PalaPad: who?
[01:13]  * hamitron congrats PalaPad
[01:13] <hamitron> :)
[01:13] <PalaPad> A guy Robert Madelin
[01:13] <PalaPad> https://www.privacyinternational.org/blog/ecinfso-captured-industry
[01:14] <HazRPG> one of my friends is a nutter though, he's actually said he had ED to someone... and she chased him for months trying to see if she could fix him xD
[01:14] <HazRPG> telling him he could "practice" on her
[01:15] <HazRPG> but we'll leave that there xD
[01:16] <hamitron> ED?
[01:16] <HazRPG> hamitron: I might chase the ebay guy up and see if he can remember why a fuse might have been taken out
[01:16] <hamitron> HazRPG: I would just buy a fuse
[01:16] <HazRPG> hamitron: two guesses, your first is mickey mouse
[01:16] <hamitron> or try a 1A fuse from a plug
[01:17] <hamitron> or you could just put a nail across it for testing
[01:17] <hamitron> ;)
[01:17] <HazRPG> that would be insane!
[01:17] <HazRPG> actually I've used tin foil before xD
[01:17] <hamitron> I never have
[01:17] <hamitron> I'd use a 1A fuse
[01:17] <hamitron> ;)
[01:17] <HazRPG> wrap around fuse... away you go - jobs a good en'
[01:18] <HazRPG> only ever done that with silly battery powered toys
[01:18] <HazRPG> the fuse would only blow because it was the most used thing
[01:18] <hamitron> does the C64 have mains going into it?
[01:18] <hamitron> or a transformer
[01:19] <HazRPG> hamitron: it has a transformer *urrraaarrrrreeeeehhhh*
[01:19] <PalaPad> Huge block of a transformer iirc
[01:19] <hamitron> only real risk is blowing up tranformer then
[01:19] <PalaPad> In that lovely c64 case colour
[01:20] <hamitron> or some part of the c64
[01:20] <HazRPG> PalaPad: yeah, massive power brick
[01:20] <hamitron> just steal a 1A fuse from a lamp or something
[01:20] <hamitron> ;)
[01:21] <HazRPG> hamitron: might be too small... but I'll have a look round
[01:21] <shauno> that was about normal.  my amiga's power brick is quite a bit bigger than most PC psu's
[01:21] <hamitron> small is fine
[01:21] <hamitron> it would just blow and leave you none the wiser
[01:21] <HazRPG> (some of the lamps I've got a A3)
[01:21] <hamitron> 3A is no good
[01:21] <hamitron> :/
[01:21] <HazRPG> well I know that ;)
[01:21] <shauno> always start small with fuses.  the smallest you can get away with is the perfect fuse
[01:21] <HazRPG> I'm not thick, just point out the obvious
[01:22] <hamitron> HazRPG: I like to make it clear
[01:22] <hamitron> or attempt to
[01:22] <hamitron> :)
[01:22] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, welcome :)
[01:22] <HazRPG> shauno: seurs?
[01:22] <HazRPG> shauno: seen my pictures*?
[01:22] <shauno> ?
[01:22] <shauno> wow, that was quite the typo
[01:22] <HazRPG> shauno: pc's lagging out because I have 150 tabs open now
[01:23] <shauno> ah
[01:23] <hamitron> grrr
[01:23] <hamitron> http://www.maplin.co.uk/solar-powered-12v-1.5w-battery-trickle-charger-98358?ordercode=L58BF&C=Email-Newsletter&U=Camping%20and%20Caravanning-L58BF&T=468531&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=L58BF&utm_campaign=Camping%20and%20Caravanning
[01:23] <hamitron> tempted
[01:23] <hamitron> :/
[01:24] <shauno> eh, I wouldn't
[01:24] <hamitron> why? ;/
[01:25] <shauno> atlantic coast of ireland; charging the batteries would be a yearly event :)
[01:25] <hamitron> :))
[01:25] <hamitron> I wouldn't use it for its proper use
[01:25] <hamitron> I got a trickle charger that runs off mains
[01:25] <hamitron> this would be more something to mess with
[01:32] <HazRPG> hmm apparently it was vlc that was the culprit - not my tabs
[01:32] <HazRPG> it was taking up 5GB of memory, and 3GB of swap >_<
[01:33] <shauno> burn it!
[01:33] <HazRPG> I did!
[01:33] <hamitron> :)
[01:33] <HazRPG> I killed it!
[01:33] <HazRPG> I killed it with fire!
[01:33] <HazRPG> I really like htop
[01:33] <hamitron> violence is not tolerated in this channel ;/
[01:34] <HazRPG> seems to work better than system monitor
[01:34] <hamitron> tomorrow I will have 8gb ram and not care
[01:34] <HazRPG> hamitron: but OCD is :P
[01:34] <hamitron> :)
[01:34] <HazRPG> hamitron: hey, I've got 6GB :(
[01:34] <hamitron> lga 1366?
[01:35] <HazRPG> hamitron: also, you will when programs start abusing it!
[01:35] <HazRPG> LGA1366
[01:35] <HazRPG> yes
[01:35] <HazRPG> i7-930
[01:35] <hamitron> mine will only be a i3-550 3.2ghz
[01:35] <HazRPG> 8 sweet virtual cores (or 4 actual)
[01:36] <hamitron> but that is an upgrade for me
[01:36] <hamitron> :)
[01:36] <HazRPG> 8GB! Most definitely!
[01:36] <hamitron> the cpu will be too
[01:36] <HazRPG> that and the i3's and i7's pretty much work at the same speed anyways
[01:36] <hamitron> on a 2.2ghz core2 duo
[01:36] <hamitron> 800mhz fsb!
[01:36] <HazRPG> yeah core 2 duo's are still all the range!
[01:36] <hamitron> :(
[01:37] <hamitron> I was torn between the i7 and i3
[01:37]  * HazRPG still likes his core 2 duo 3.2GHz
[01:37] <HazRPG> hamitron: can always move up to i7 later ;)
[01:38] <hamitron> ended up going i3 to get the on chip graphics
[01:38] <hamitron> na
[01:38] <hamitron> ITX baby!
[01:38] <hamitron> well, mini-ITX
[01:38] <hamitron> I think my graphics card is the same size
[01:38] <hamitron> :/
[01:39] <hamitron> but only using it for gaming for a while
[01:39] <hamitron> waiting till there is a cpu I want for a monster comp
[01:39] <hamitron> less heat and some performance
[01:39] <hamitron> :)
[01:40] <hamitron> I really don't want anything more than 95W TDP
[01:40] <hamitron> less hopefully
[01:41] <hamitron> iirc, i3 first gen is 72/73W?
[01:45] <hamitron> anyways
[01:45] <hamitron> off to bed
[01:45] <hamitron> o/
[01:45] <HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lnX8D7hqSc \o/
[01:45] <HazRPG> hamitron: awww :(
[01:46] <HazRPG> yeah i3 should be like 72W
[01:46] <hamitron> is that the same game as on the NES?
[01:46] <HazRPG> err... possibly?
[01:47] <hamitron> just looked, no
[01:47] <hamitron> :)
[01:47] <hamitron> was a platform side scrolling thing
[01:47] <HazRPG> same difference :P
[01:48] <HazRPG> I wonder if there's a way to get games recorded to tape somehow... from my normal PC
[01:49] <HazRPG> dude!
[01:49] <hamitron> vhs style?
[01:49] <HazRPG> I knew there was a reason I hated tape drives :/
[01:49] <hamitron> btw, it is the same game
[01:49] <hamitron> :D
[01:49] <hamitron> google returned some screens from a pc game
[01:49] <HazRPG> bloody thing just ate my game >_<
[01:50] <hamitron> :/
[01:50] <HazRPG> and pens aren't made the way they use to be so that I can wind it back up again >_<
[01:50] <HazRPG> silly smooth edged pens!
[01:51] <HazRPG> where's a biro or a bic when ya need one :/
[01:51]  * hamitron has 8 on his desk
[01:51] <hamitron> ;)
[01:51] <hamitron> I keep borrowing them from my family
[01:52] <hamitron> and they all collect at my desk
[01:52] <HazRPG> hehe
[01:52] <hamitron> desk is on 2nd floor, so never bother running upstairs for a pen
[01:52] <HazRPG> looks like I'm doing it old school, tip of the finger style then >_<
[01:53] <hamitron> anyways
[01:53] <hamitron> nn o/
[02:09] <HazRPG> need to get me some smokes
[02:09] <HazRPG> brb
[02:20] <HazRPG> shauno: wow, ocean made some big games didn't they...
[02:20] <HazRPG> game still hasn't loaded and I set it off before I left
[03:08]  * HazRPG having fun with his c64 :D
[04:34] <HazRPG> what's everyone up to this evening/morning?
[04:54] <shauno> we're sleeping man.  it's 5am.
[04:57] <HazRPG> clearly your not sleeping though :P
[04:57] <shauno> yes I am!
[04:57] <HazRPG> xD
[04:58]  * HazRPG pokes a "sleeping" shauno to wake him up
[04:59] <shauno> trying to find out why my mail client claims my server is missing :(
[04:59] <HazRPG> DNS problems maybe?
[04:59] <HazRPG> I've been suffering from that recently
[04:59] <shauno> I think I need to reboot my router
[05:00] <HazRPG> try and ping via a ping website
[05:00] <shauno> (as stupidly unconnected as that sounds)
[05:00] <HazRPG> see if that sheds some light
[05:00] <HazRPG> hmm, restarting router tends to fix DNS issues for me
[05:00] <HazRPG> since there is no way of clearing cache
[05:00] <HazRPG> or other alternative way rather*
[05:02] <shauno> hm.  I don't think it's my end
[05:03] <HazRPG> how'd ya figure?
[05:03] <shauno> ssh -6 mail times out, ssh -4 doesn't
[05:04] <HazRPG> don't know what -6 is, but yes
[05:04] <HazRPG> *nods and agrees*
[05:04] <shauno> tells ssh to prefer ipv4 or 6
[05:04] <HazRPG> ah
[05:04] <HazRPG> guessing you use ipv6 then?
[05:05] <HazRPG> might be your broker that's causing the issue?
[05:05] <HazRPG> or your server isn't getting an ipv6?
[05:05] <shauno> looks like my tunnel's dead, but for some reason my email client isn't reverting to 4 when 6 isn't reachable
[05:11] <HazRPG> guessing it should be then... random
[05:12] <HazRPG> must be a config issue
[05:21] <shauno> heh, could you do me a favor?  on http://www.tunnelbroker.net/status.php  are either london or paris marked red?
[05:21] <shauno> it won't load for me.  it'll load from my vps, but green/red doesn't mean jack squat in elinks
[05:26] <shauno> nm, my phone can reach it :)  and it is them.  which is sweet.  means I can ignore it & it'll go away
[05:26] <Azelphur> hmm minecrafty people, I went to the nether, It's scary and I can't figure out how to get out
[05:26] <Azelphur> save me D:
[05:26] <HazRPG> shauno: paris is
[05:26] <HazRPG> shauno: red I mean
[05:27] <HazRPG> Azelphur: haven't tried nether yet!
[05:27] <Azelphur> haha
[05:27]  * HazRPG hugs Azelphur regardless
[05:28] <Azelphur> it has like scary reversed baby sounds D:
[05:28] <HazRPG> shauno: is it bad that I've download reSID and I'm attempting to code something with it?
[05:29] <shauno> Azelphur: you should be able to use the same portal you went in thru
[05:29] <shauno> if you can't find it .. maybe today is a good day to die ;)
[05:30] <Azelphur> yea, I came through and I havn't moved...there is no portal D:
[05:30] <Azelphur> it was a tarp D:
[05:30] <shauno> hah.  yeah.  it's not meant to do that :)
[05:32] <Azelphur> haha yea, it's a bug in the SMP plugin
[05:32] <HazRPG> hmm... I can see why I never went both feet first into programming for linux
[05:32] <HazRPG> I see's the source... but I don't know what to do with said source!
[05:33] <HazRPG> or even which one's I need to include... to get it to work
[05:33] <HazRPG> or should I just compile, then link said compiled file...
[05:33]  * HazRPG googles how to use reSID
[05:34] <shauno> Azelphur: if you're desperate, could take a hex editor to your save file ;)
[05:36] <shauno> actually, no, nm that.  by hand I can flip dimension, but can't promise you'll be located anywhere sane.   just go die :p
[05:37] <Azelphur> haha
[05:37] <Azelphur> I'm more interested in why on earth the plugin has no way of you actually getting out again
[05:37] <Azelphur> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/tp-fun-nethergate-v0-53-just-like-single-player-478-527.3430/page-24#post-121252
[05:38] <shauno> ahh
[05:40] <shauno> pretty sure bukkit has a console command to change world, but no idea what it is :)
[05:41] <shauno> haven't played with bukkit yet.  having enough fun learning how to pull the region files apart in regular mc :)
[05:42] <shauno> trying to get to the stage where I can import & export objects from the map files, without needing some java monstrosity  (or a UI at all ...)
[05:43] <shauno> export's nearly working, but I can't seem to output the same format everyone else uses.  import's pretty pointless to even try until I can get that nailed down
[05:44] <Azelphur> hehe :P
[05:46] <shauno> the .schematic files everyone else uses are a slight modification of a very old world save format (not 1.2's or 1.3's).
[05:46] <shauno> so after all that work figuring out how to manipulate the world saves, I can't reuse that for output :(
[05:46] <HazRPG> :(
[05:47] <shauno> (I can turn the sky into lava tho.  could be useful one day)
[05:48] <Azelphur> haha
[05:48]  * Azelphur wanders off to sleep
[05:49] <HazRPG> I seriously need to close some tabs
[05:49] <HazRPG> I have 202 now >_<
[05:49] <HazRPG> according to my tab count extension
[05:49] <shauno> that's wrong in so many ways
[05:50] <shauno> I think if you habitually use more tabs than fit on a screen's width, the solution isn't an addon to manage them.  it's rehab.  cold turkey.  no tabs at all until your head is fixed :D
[05:51] <HazRPG> heh, I have 3 windows open - otherwise I would be suffering from tab-overflow xD
[05:51] <shauno> nothing but cold hard IE6 until you repent :D
[05:52] <HazRPG> would be hard considering I run ubuntu ;)
[05:52] <shauno> not that hard :)
[05:52] <HazRPG> it would be sacrilege!
[05:52] <shauno> I believe ie4linux is still going, somewhat
[05:52]  * MartijnVdS has 3 tabs open
[05:52] <HazRPG> also, I have roughly 400+ tabs if you include the ones stored in my session manager addon >_<
[05:52] <MartijnVdS> Mail, reddit, {twitter|facebook} :)
[05:53] <shauno> I don't have a browser open atm :)
[05:53] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'd like to tell you about this cool feature browsers have called "bookmarks"
[05:53] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[05:53] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ... don't get me started, my bookmarks are already flooded too
[05:54] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding
[05:54] <shauno> my solution is google.
[05:54] <shauno> if I found it, I can find it again.  next time I need it, I'll google it and pull it back up
[05:54] <MartijnVdS> shauno: indeed. google or it wasn't important enough :)
[05:54] <HazRPG> I have them all nested within these main folders: Articles, Freelance, Games, Music, Projects, Shops, Software, Videos, Websites, University, Home, Hosts, RSS
[05:55] <shauno> I only have 4Gb of ram.  the internet won't fit in it.  so I'll leave it where I found it :)
[05:55] <HazRPG> some sites are hard to find under google
[05:55] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: sure, bookmark those few
[05:55] <HazRPG> those are the ones bookmarked...
[05:55] <MartijnVdS> I use my bookmark bar for often-used sites.. for the rest there's google or "add bookmark" maybe once a month
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: browse the web less ;) go program somethine
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> g*
[05:56] <HazRPG> this is the reason I have all these tabs/bookmarks!
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: What happens when you close them?
[05:57] <MartijnVdS> (the tabs, let's start easy :))
[05:57] <HazRPG> sometimes I see something and think "I'll read that later" and then get on with something... then eventually get back to them
[05:57] <MartijnVdS> Sounds like ADD :)
[05:57] <HazRPG> oh, I know I do!
[05:58] <shauno> if you've got 400 tabs, you're not getting back to them.  your workflow has a leak.
[05:58] <HazRPG> not proven via doctors etc... but tis fact :P
[05:58] <MartijnVdS> a memory leak
[05:58] <HazRPG> shauno: ironically I always do, and will eventually end up with back to my basic 4
[05:58] <MartijnVdS> dear compiz, please let me focus my windows THANK YOU
[05:58]  * MartijnVdS shouts at natty
[05:58] <HazRPG> :P
[05:59] <HazRPG> speaking of which, I have about 10 tabs I can now close
[05:59] <MartijnVdS> good way to keep your tab count low
[05:59] <MartijnVdS> reboot
[05:59] <shauno> heh, don't get me started on natty
[06:01] <shauno> windows 7 does a better job of degrading to a non-3d accel VM.
[06:01] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: pointless, opening browser will just re-open tabs due to my
[06:01] <MartijnVdS> oh wow
[06:02] <HazRPG> setting I put in
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> window snapping works again
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> Except it snaps the drop shadow instead of the window
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> *facepalm*
[06:02] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xD
[06:02] <shauno> I think the border is larger than is visible?  something to do with crazy resize handles?
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> (it won't stack two windows together, only with some room between them)
[06:03] <shauno> if I understand it right, there's actually something in that 'room'.  just not visible
[06:03] <MartijnVdS> annoying :)
[06:03] <shauno> (to explain the behaviour, not excuse it)
[06:04] <MartijnVdS> especially as I'm using "gnome-classic"
[06:04] <MartijnVdS> (can't stand the dock on the left.. it has to be on the right or nowhere)
[06:05] <MartijnVdS> ah
[06:05] <MartijnVdS> the focus bug I was seeing
[06:05] <MartijnVdS> = bug 723014
[06:05] <shauno> it's been a fun few years, but I think I'm going back to debian next time I have to rebuild
[06:06] <MartijnVdS> I've been considering it
[06:06] <MartijnVdS> if just for the sane Gnome
[06:06] <shauno> on my laptop, VMs don't have 3d accel, so they've destroyed the desktop
[06:06] <shauno> on my servers, they've decided that -server kernels for 32bit aren't worth the effort
[06:06] <shauno> so we get -generic
[06:07] <shauno> right now, it feels like ubuntu-desktop doesn't give an $expletive about you if you're not on a netbook
[06:07] <shauno> and ubuntu-server doesn't care if you're not on amazon
[06:08] <shauno> they're designing for the users they want, not the users they've got :(

[06:15] <MartijnVdS> ooh! Body Browser now works on Intel graphics (in chromium) as well
[06:15] <MartijnVdS> some things DO improve :)
[06:16] <MartijnVdS> http://bodybrowser.googlelabs.com/
[06:28] <Myrtti> bweep.
[06:34] <knightwise> morning everyone
[06:40] <HazRPG> temes? http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/susan_blackmore_on_memes_and_temes.html
[06:54] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:02] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: nice idea :)
[07:03] <knightwise> YES ! :) i have Gpodder under my power :)
[07:04] <knightwise> gpo command line interface does the things i need it to do
[07:06] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Isn't it just, I really like the TED site :)
[07:06] <HazRPG> science... it works...!
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, but I need to work
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: :|
[07:07] <HazRPG> :P
[07:07] <HazRPG> morning AlanBell & knightwise
[07:07] <knightwise> ah yes , i need to subscribe to some ted talks too
[07:07] <knightwise> hey HazRPG , AlanBell
[07:31] <knightwise> crud
[07:31] <knightwise> japanese tsunamy http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> dvb://"Al Jazeera English"
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[08:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Japan Tsunami: What To Do If It Affects You - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/03/11/japan-tsunami-what-to-do-if-it-affects-you/
[08:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> ping czajkowski
[08:23] <DJones> Morning all
[08:23] <knightwise> morning everyone TheOpenSourcerer , DJones
[08:23] <DJones> Hi knightwise
[08:24] <knightwise> how are you guyz today
[08:25] <knightwise> aside from "happy we are not in Japan"
[08:28] <DJones> Not bad thanks, just reading up on pwn2own competition
[08:31] <knightwise> working on an docu-cast episode where i document the podcatching setup i have made
[08:31] <knightwise> script i've been working on and all that
[08:40] <hoover> mornin all!
[08:48] <screen-x> morning :)
[08:56] <danfish> morning
[08:56] <knightwise> morning danfish
[08:57] <danfish> hmm. Monit is telling me when this python script is running, and it's telling me when it's crashed, but doesn't want to restart it :(
[08:57] <danfish> knightwise: 0/
[09:00] <selinuxium> Hi all   o/
[09:01] <danfish> d'oh - it doesn't want to restart the script because I forgot to tell it to.
[09:01] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: pong
[09:01] <selinuxium> 'lo czajkowski
[09:01] <knightwise> @knightwise Thanks! My family is okay. I have to survive to listen your podcast! :)
[09:02] <knightwise> ( My nr 1 listener in Japan tweets he's ok)
[09:02] <czajkowski> selinuxium: hey hey
[09:02] <selinuxium> czajkowski, you good hun?
[09:02] <danfish> knightwise: good - looks a bit grim there
[09:02] <czajkowski> aye sleepy but good
[09:02] <czajkowski> had beers last night
[09:02] <czajkowski> :d
[09:03] <DJones> czajkowski: Was it a beer night yesterday evening
[09:03] <selinuxium> czajkowski, You? Beer? Really? ;)
[09:03] <DJones> too slow
[09:03]  * selinuxium had a few cheeky one's himself..
[09:03] <czajkowski> DJones: yup
[09:03] <czajkowski> definately
[09:03] <czajkowski> found a pub that sold Kriek and Fruli
[09:03] <czajkowski> :D
[09:04] <selinuxium> I used to have a 2 pint oversized stein and my local... they would fill it with Hoegarden on my arrival until large blank spaces appeared in my memory....
[09:05] <danfish> czajkowski: that's the recipe for a fruity hangover ;)
[09:05] <knightwise> czajkowski: so its paddy's day .. right ?
[09:05]  * knightwise lives about a stonesthrow away from Hoegaarden
[09:05] <selinuxium> knightwise, Really! :)
[09:05] <knightwise> yep
[09:06]  * selinuxium will have to work out freight costs...
[09:06] <knightwise> you could consider marying a belgian girl
[09:06] <selinuxium> Anybody here like their Metal music?
[09:06] <knightwise> makes import export easier
[09:06] <selinuxium> knightwise, Hmmm... Certainly an idea!
[09:06] <czajkowski> knightwise: yes PADDYS not PATTYS or so help me I may kill people
[09:07] <selinuxium> knightwise, Paddy's is on the 17th...  czajkowski was just warming up..
[09:08]  * knightwise would LOVE to get smakked by czajkowski some day :p
[09:08] <knightwise> this would mean i would be close enough to buy her a hoegaarden or something
[09:08] <knightwise> maybe @ fossdem some day
[09:09] <czajkowski> knightwise: take a ticket and join the queue behind MooDoo
[09:10] <knightwise> lol :)
[09:10] <knightwise> is that the "buy beer" or "get smacked" line ?
[09:10] <knightwise> o/ wintellect
[09:11] <wintellect> hi knightwise
[09:14] <daubers> Morning
[09:14] <wintellect> hi daubers
[09:16] <czajkowski> popey: you're missing from over there!
[09:22] <mungojerry> morning all - any (al)pine users in here?
[09:23] <knightwise> mungojerry: yep
[09:23] <HazRPG> hi all :)
[09:23] <mungojerry> knightwise: cool, i have a quiestion...
[09:24] <HazRPG> just been enjoying watching a DIY photo etching PCB video
[09:24] <mungojerry> i don't use pine but some of my users like it. on the zimbra mail server we have a Junk folder, but i can't seem to view it in alpine
[09:24] <mungojerry> if i try to add it, it already exists..
[09:24]  * knightwise is a novice user of alpine , only hooked it up to his gmail account
[09:24] <mungojerry> can you see the spam folder?
[09:25] <knightwise> so i'm afraind i dont know a lot about the interaction with Gmail
[09:25] <knightwise> holdon , i'll check
[09:26] <selinuxium> alpine??? I really need to hang out more... Feels like I am losing my foo...
[09:26]  * czajkowski hugs selinuxium 
[09:26] <knightwise> selinuxium: i love alpine !
[09:26]  * knightwise whips out his macbook air running 10.10.
[09:28] <gord> everyone says working from home must be so great, but these people do not realise that people working from home have to deal with pets that think your are home all day every weekday to play with them
[09:28] <mungojerry> lol
[09:29] <mungojerry> my dog is a lapdog
[09:29] <mungojerry> when i work from home, she just curls up on the lap...only makes it difficult to move around
[09:30] <knightwise> mungojerry: nope , cant see the spam folder on this setup
[09:30] <mungojerry> knightwise: think i've found out how to do it...
[09:30] <mungojerry> http://www.cs.duke.edu/csl/security/secure-email/pine
[09:31] <knightwise> mungojerry: you missed your latest viagra order then ?
[09:31] <mungojerry> :P
[09:31] <mungojerry> it's for my users
[09:32] <knightwise> thats what they all say :p
[09:36] <popey> morning all
[09:36] <daubers> o/
[09:36] <knightwise> mornign popey  !
[09:36] <knightwise> head full of froggs my boy ?
[09:37] <daubers> popey: I've got initial permission to steal a mobile raid for oggcamp (assuming we have a demo unit around at the time)
[09:37] <knightwise> Ss
[09:37] <knightwise> wrong window
[09:38] <daubers> Just need to throw some python together to do the video upload magic \o/
[09:40]  * mungojerry has a life question of the day :P 
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: 42
[09:40] <mungojerry> for UK residents :|
[09:41] <mungojerry> what do the new pension changes mean to SERPS ?
[09:41] <mungojerry> told you it was boring :(
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> How is "42" not the answer? :)
[09:42] <mungojerry> MartijnVdS: that's my best answer so far too.
[09:44] <mungojerry> the govt has said everyone will receive a flat rate pension, but years ago we were all told to contract-out of SERPS :S
[09:44] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
[09:49] <DJones> mungojerry: I wouldn't worry, according to the Mayan's the word is going to end next year anyway, and if that doesn't happen, by the time we all get to retire the economy will have collapsed and money won't exist, everybody will live on a barter basis and grow their own food
[09:49] <DJones> s/word/world
[09:50] <screen-x> DJones: solid financial advice there
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> DJones:optimist :)
[09:50] <mungojerry> that reminds me of a good open source slogan i saw yesterday: https://twitter.com/RickWarren/status/45797195869458432 "Most people ask “What does it cost?”  Wise people ask “What is it worth?"
[09:50] <DJones> I always look on the bright side :)
[09:50] <mungojerry> DJones: are you contracted in or out of serps though :P
[09:52] <DJones> mungojerry: I can't rememeber
[09:52] <directhex> mungojerry, kids these days ask "is it on the pirate bay?"
[09:52] <popey> daubers: yay
[09:52]  * mungojerry has never been to pirate bay
[09:52] <directhex> there are pirates. arrr
[09:53] <knightwise> mungojerry: try this setup , now you can see all the folders http://lusule.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/how-to-7/
[09:53] <Baikonur> open source is often worth the cost
[09:53] <mungojerry> and a bit more Baikonur :P
[09:54] <DJones> HP Sauce is definately worth the cost
[09:54] <mungojerry> knightwise: sweet, cheers
[09:54] <mungojerry> my local cafe pours cheap brown sauce into HP bottles =-O
[09:54] <directhex> i don't like brown sauce
[09:55] <screen-x> mungojerry: I'm pretty sure thats standard :(
[09:55] <directhex> i will literally sit with an open bottle & sniff, for delightful sauces like reggae reggae ketchup, or heinz twisted ketchup
[09:55] <mungojerry> directhex: are you single?
[09:55] <directhex> mungojerry, no!
[09:55] <screen-x> haha
[09:55] <mungojerry> you surprise me :)
[09:56]  * selinuxium accepts czajkowski 's hugs and goes looking for where he left his foo...
[09:56] <directhex> mungojerry, if a bottle of ketchup gets left on my desk, i'll compulsively sniff it until it goes back into the cupboard
[09:56]  * mungojerry backs away from directhex
[09:56] <DJones> mungojerry: don't back away, run....RUN FASTER
[09:57] <mungojerry> as long as i'm faster than one of you guys i'm ok
[09:57] <screen-x> directhex: at least you dont drink it from the bottle.
[09:57]  * mungojerry looks closely at the lurkers
[09:57] <DJones> mungojerry: Thats only when its lions chasing you & your mate
[09:57] <mungojerry> i wonder what the speech /lurk rate is
[09:57] <screen-x> mungojerry: I saw one of the super people speak the other day!
[09:58] <mungojerry> ?
[09:59] <DJones> ping AlanBell popey http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/ is giving a Not Found error
[09:59] <popey> ooo
[09:59]  * popey fix0r3s
[09:59] <screen-x> hmm, only super-matt, is there at the mo, there was superastronaut and supercosmonaut..
[09:59] <mungojerry> wonders if popey was answering irc pings in the pub
[10:01] <popey> DJones: fixed
[10:01]  * mungojerry LOLs at the teenager slang: bare sick
[10:01] <popey> i wasnt
[10:01] <popey> i am however somewhat hungover
[10:01]  * czajkowski wafts bacon in popey direction to help with the hangover 
[10:02] <mungojerry> "Device: /dev/sda, 1 Offline uncorrectable sectors" ..nothing to worry about surely?
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: buy a new one just in case
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> or make a backup just in case
[10:03] <popey> czajkowski: already had brekkie
[10:03] <popey> bacon and egg roll and a hash brown
[10:03] <popey> with lucozade and nurofen
[10:04] <czajkowski> oh tis one of them heads
[10:04] <bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
[10:04]  * czajkowski makes a mental note not to poke popey today 
[10:04] <czajkowski> popey: any ocassion, or just needed beers
[10:12] <kazade> popey, hangover cure #1 for me is something containing Chilli :)
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> kazade: preferably just after drinking, before the hangover hits? :)
[10:12] <kazade> the spice stimulates your stomach to replace the lining you destroyed with alcohol, and stimulates the nervous system. FACT.
[10:12] <kazade> MartijnVdS, indeed, there's a reason we crave spicy food when drunk ;)
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> kazade: The spice etends life. The spice expands consciousness. The spice is vital to space travel ;)
[10:13] <mungojerry> that makes mungojerry sad
[10:13] <kazade> also, of course, Banana for Potassium and Caffeine
[10:13] <kazade> oh yeah, and Pineapple, replaces lost sugars
[10:13] <mungojerry> or lucozade+paracetomol and sleep
[10:13] <kazade> that's one weird breakfast though :)
[10:14] <mungojerry> pineapple + kiwi tend to dissolve my tongue
[10:14] <daubers> Hmmm... didn't realise btrfs lets you do software raiding as well
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> Music with Dune quotes++ -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOjjnIPwd7c
[10:14] <kazade> I tend to settle on Coffee + Egg sandwich with chilli sauce :)
[10:14] <kazade> and Ibuprofen.. obviously
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> kazade: Codeine ;)
[10:15] <kazade> no Aspirin though... if you've already burned away your stomach lining with Alcohol, Aspirin will just make it worse
[10:15] <screen-x> linkedin thinks I might know czajkowski even though I've only just joined, spooky.
[10:15] <kazade> Ibuprofen isn't great in that respect
[10:16] <DJones> kazade: MartijnVdS Codiene + paracetamol + diclafenic :)
[10:16] <kazade> DJones, morphine :p
[10:16] <DJones> kazade: I haven't got any of that
[10:17]  * kazade got a tiny bit addicted to morphine after an operation 8 years ago
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> DJones: You can't get codeine without a prescription in .nl
[10:18] <DJones> popey: Correction, Medication, not drugs
[10:18] <screen-x> popey: this would a good time to mention your referral codes for some online pharmacies
[10:18] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Same here for the good ones, although you can get the mild low dose in supermarkets
[10:18] <AlanBell> #ubuntu-narcotics
[10:20] <popey> hah
[10:27] <mungojerry> guys, what will happen to all the apps that require system tray in natty?
[10:27] <kazade> mungojerry, Wine and Java apps are whitelisted
[10:27] <mungojerry> is there a workaround?
[10:27] <kazade> all other apps just won't work
[10:27] <kazade> don't use Unity
[10:27]  * mungojerry sees huge breakage ahead
[10:28] <mungojerry> or maybe a systray icon in the launcher
[10:28] <mungojerry> to handle all legacy apps
[10:28] <kazade> yeah maybe, but Canonical won't be doing that
[10:28] <kazade> someone else will have to
[10:29]  * kazade can't understand why they just don't continue to support the old systray for legacy applications 
[10:29] <popey> because nobody would convert
[10:29] <kazade> popey, if that was true, no one would be using the indicator applet
[10:29] <mungojerry> it's a necessity for transition..something will need to be done
[10:30] <mungojerry> i wonder how my update-manager notifications will now work also
[10:30] <kazade> Scott Richie had to pester to even get Wine apps to be whitelisted
[10:30] <kazade> the original plan was no systray at all
[10:30] <mungojerry> i don't use that horrid in-your-face popup window, but use the systray icon
[10:30] <czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/48f8q7  BACON!
[10:31] <mungojerry> "It seems that czajkowski's shift-key is hanging:  1.5% of the time he/she wrote UPPERCASE."
[10:31] <kazade> mungojerry, you can say goodbye to that unless someone implements an indicator for it
[10:31] <kazade> (probably already exists somewhere)
[10:31] <mungojerry> kazade: isn't it more likely that users will say goodbye to unity, or ubuntu completly
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> update-manager is an Ubuntu invention, so it probably works
[10:31] <popey> hehe. czajkowski you have the same phone as me
[10:31] <popey> cisco 7941 ip phone
[10:32] <popey> mungojerry: no
[10:32] <czajkowski> popey: geek to spot that :)
[10:32] <mungojerry> popey: why not, if i use glipper and loads of other apps using the tray, i'll need to continue using some kind of tray
[10:32] <AlanBell> MooDoo brings happiness to the world. 30.7% lines contained smiling faces. :)
[10:32] <AlanBell> davmor2 isn't a sad person either, smiling 27.8% of the time.
[10:33] <mungojerry> therefore gnome classic is the only route i can take?
[10:33] <bigcalm> !stats
[10:33] <bigcalm> Aww :(
[10:33] <czajkowski> mungojerry: I'm a She :)
[10:33] <kazade> mungojerry, it seems to be that Canonical are targeting 90% of users with Unity, the other 10% need to fend for themselves (e.g. use Gnome 2/3)
[10:33] <kazade> if you use systray apps you are in the 10%
[10:33] <AlanBell> czajkowski: http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
[10:34] <mungojerry> czajkowski: you should be able to tell ircstats that
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> kazade: it could become like kubuntu is now.. gubuntu -- proper Gnome instead of Unity
[10:34] <mungojerry> only 10% of users use a systray app?
[10:34] <bigcalm> lubotu3: stats is http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
[10:34]  * mungojerry hopes that gnome classic does not disappear with the advent of gnome3 & shell
[10:34] <kazade> mungojerry, I only use Wine/Java systray apps so that's fine for me (although I can't stand the global menu, so arguably I'm in the 10% too)
[10:35] <bigcalm> Oh, is lubotu3 shared between ubuntu channels?
[10:35] <AlanBell> there can be channel specific factoids
[10:35] <DJones> bigcalm: Yes
[10:35] <AlanBell> !popey is one
[10:35] <mungojerry> i have a phobia of the global menu
[10:35] <bigcalm> I see
[10:35] <AlanBell> oops
[10:35] <bigcalm> !popey
[10:35] <kazade> mungojerry, I just think it's a set up that doesn't suit all use cases
[10:35] <popey> 10:32:50 < mungojerry> popey: why not, if i use glipper and loads of other apps using the tray, i'll need to continue using some kind of tray
[10:36] <popey> 10:31:33 < mungojerry> kazade: isn't it more likely that users will say goodbye to unity, or ubuntu completly
[10:36] <popey> you are saying "I might leave therefore lots of people might leave"
[10:36] <popey> this is historically not born out
[10:37] <popey> geeks have a tendancy to overemphasise their use case as the general use case for everyone
[10:37] <mungojerry> popey: historically it has been borne out with KDE3->4
[10:37] <HazRPG> just for the lulz: http://notalwaysright.com/
[10:37] <dogmatic69> could someone explain this to me please
[10:37] <dogmatic69> bash < <( curl http://rvm.beginrescueend.com/releases/rvm-install-head )
[10:38] <mungojerry> of course many apps could be written to work with libunity to make the launcher more useful...but they are cross-distro projects and may not want to
[10:39] <kazade> mungojerry, that's my main worry actually
[10:39] <kazade> Ubuntu now have libindicate and libunity  and has the market share to become the defacto development platform
[10:39] <popey> mungojerry: i disagree
[10:41] <mungojerry> popey: disagree how? you think devs will make it work for unity? i hope so
[10:42] <screen-x> dogmatic69: I dont think you need the left "<"
[10:42] <mungojerry> might take a year (plus roaring success of unity) to get on board though
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> user-share != developer-share though
[10:42] <dogmatic69> screen-x: it works just as it is, but no clue what it means :/
[10:42] <screen-x> dogmatic69: you could write it as curl foo |bash
[10:43] <screen-x> <() is useful for providing more than one input steam
[10:43] <dogmatic69> screen-x: so its a weird way to pipe things?
[10:43] <screen-x> diff <(command one) <(command two)
[10:43] <ali1234> popey: it isn't about numbers, but quality of contributions
[10:43] <dogmatic69> pipe n things to x then
[10:43] <ali1234> popey: unity might gain ubuntu 10 users for every person that leaves
[10:44] <screen-x> dogmatic69: yeah, pipe only provides one stream.
[10:44] <screen-x> dogmatic69: but in your example there was only one stream, so pipe would have been fine.
[10:44] <ali1234> popey: however that won't do you any good if none of the new people know how to write code
[10:44] <dogmatic69> screen-x: cool, just seen 2 tutorials with that now
[10:44] <dogmatic69> both for ruby
[10:45]  * dogmatic69 dont like ruby
[10:49] <popey> i am too hungover for this conversation, sorry :D
[10:49] <mungojerry> :) fairy nuff
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> popey: you had to drink away your experience with Unity from last night?
[10:49]  * daubers has a midmorning snickers bar
[10:49] <mungojerry> popey: don't get me wrong i want unity to work, and i'm testing & reportign bugs
[10:50] <mungojerry> but there must be a continued support for legacy apps in some way, for at least 1 cycle
[10:51] <screen-x> mungojerry: the tray has been supported alongside indicators for a few cycles now.
[10:51] <daubers> mungojerry: I've not noticed any apps that don't behave well in Natty?
[10:51]  * gord loads steam in wine to check systray still works
[10:51] <gord> yup
[10:51] <Ng> burn the Notification Area!
[10:51] <Ng> burn it with fire!
[10:51] <mungojerry> daubers: stuff that uses the systray (excepting the whitelisted wine & java)
[10:51]  * screen-x loads ccsm
[10:51] <gord> Ng, there is a compiz plugin for that
[10:51] <Ng> hateful stupid thing
[10:52] <screen-x> and gets out the fire
[10:52] <Ng> gord: ooh, goof point
[10:52] <Ng> -f+d
[10:52] <screen-x> gord ^5
[10:52] <gord> can we make "there is a plugin for that" the new "theres an app for that" meme?
[10:52] <Ng> gord: I wanted 'there's an apt for that', but nobody really took to it :(
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> there's a meme for that
[10:53] <Ng> and I didn't get Orly Owl for the next name. I lose at having any influence in the community
[10:53] <daubers> mungojerry: I've got a few things that use the systray runnign and their all happy...
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> Ng: every time you suggest a name, sabdfl notices and makes sure it's not that
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> Ng: hence "oneiric"
[10:54] <knightwise> cant believe the named it that way btw
[10:54] <knightwise> had to look up what is was
[10:54] <gord> eh, i hate firefoxes "the server is not responding" page. it just annoys me. why can't it have like a cute picture of the firefox fox or something?
[10:54] <mungojerry> daubers: in unity? try glipper, artha
[10:54] <daubers> So we need to communally decide on a name in secret and ensure that we remoe all other names from the pool of availabl names?
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: onerous ocelot ;)
[10:54] <daubers> mungojerry: Never heard of either of those :)
[10:54] <Ng> gord: with a big sad face
[10:54] <screen-x> whatever oneiric actually means, it sounds dodgy.
[10:54] <gord> Ng, like they did to get people to do the test-pilot stuff :) http://mittakrish.com/files/Firefox-Test-Pilot-Mittakrish.com_.png
[10:55] <gord> how can you say no to that?
[10:55] <Ng> that is one iric ocelot
[10:55] <mungojerry> daubers: what clipboard app are you using?
[10:55] <Ng> gord: I'm sure there's a plugin for that :)
[10:55] <mungojerry> and what about update notification?
[10:55] <daubers> mungojerry: I don't use a clipboard app?
[10:55] <daubers> mungojerry: update notification disappeared from the panel a couple of releases ago
[10:55] <Ng> mungojerry: update notification doesn't use the... what daubers
[10:56] <gord> now it just pops up randomly! its awesome
[10:56] <Ng> update manager loads, minimises and sets its urgent WM hint
[10:56] <daubers> glipper isn't in the repo...
[10:56] <gord> i love it when it pops up on my xmbc install and forces xbmc out of fullscreen mode, thats the best
[10:56] <Ng> gord: perhaps you should disable it :)
[10:56] <Ng> just install unattended-upgrades
[10:57] <mungojerry> update notification : i use the systray app because the other way is so...microsoft
[10:57] <Ng> that's weird
[10:57] <mungojerry> i thought OSS was about choosing the best way
[10:57] <screen-x> I get update notifications, I dont think I'm in the right group.
[10:57] <daubers> !best
[10:57] <Ng> because windows puts updates in the 'systra'
[10:57] <mungojerry> daubers: exactly..
[10:57] <Ng> windows update and java and all sorts of things chuck icons in there when they have updates
[10:57] <gord> mungojerry, open source software is certainly not about choosing the best way
[10:58] <gord> its about choosing
[10:58] <mungojerry> gord, daubers: best for me is not best for you..AKA choice
[10:58] <screen-x> why is it not lunchtime yet
[10:58] <mungojerry> sorry for confusion
[10:58] <knightwise> erm , what does the unattended command do btw ?
[10:58] <Ng> mungojerry: and you have the choice to run whatever software you want :)
[10:58] <mungojerry> Ng: except not with unity :(
[10:59] <daubers> mungojerry: So you want to remove the choice of people to run unity so you can have your specific choice? Why not just run classic gnome (as you can from the login screen)
[10:59] <Ng> mungojerry: you can not run unity. The reality is that it's impossible for software to cater to everyone. simple, opinionated designs are better than vast universal ones
[10:59] <Ng> compare an ipod with Eclipse
[10:59] <ali1234> compare wubi with grub
[10:59] <gord> eclipse is the single worst portable media player i have ever had
[10:59] <mungojerry> guys, all i'm asking is that legacy apps retain some kind of support until they can be integrated with the launcher
[10:59] <gord> ?
[11:00] <screen-x> gord: eclipse is soooo slow on my iriver :(
[11:00] <daubers> mungojerry: That support has been continued for a few releases already, it has to be dropped at some point
[11:00] <HazRPG> ali1234: ah, dude your online :)
[11:00]  * Ng is a neophile, I love it when legacy things are dropped, it forced new things and new things are awesome \o/
[11:00] <mungojerry> daubers: other distros use it though..
[11:00] <HazRPG> ali1234: quick question for ya, you mentioned something a few nights ago about making your own SID... where did you see that at?
[11:00] <gord> unity is the bush wildfire, burning away the old cruft so the new plants can grow ¬_¬
[11:00] <mungojerry> what if the devs work on other distros
[11:01] <daubers> mungojerry: And? Other distro's use midnight commander too
[11:01] <ali1234> HazRPG: swansid
[11:01] <ali1234> swinsid
[11:01] <ali1234> whatever
[11:01] <mungojerry> then ubuntu changes might not be at the forefront of their priorities
[11:01] <daubers> mungojerry: Thats their choice to make though
[11:01] <mungojerry> so the users get penalised :(
[11:01] <mungojerry> or use gnome classic
[11:01] <HazRPG> ali1234: oh, I thought that was pre-built
[11:02] <Ng> desktop app people not focussing on ubuntu compatibility clearly don't care about their users ;)
[11:02] <HazRPG> ali1234: I didn't see on the site any schematics on there
[11:02] <daubers> mungojerry: So nothing should ever change so that all legacy apps always work?
[11:02] <Ng> because ubuntu brings the most desktop users :)
[11:02] <mungojerry> at least 1 cycle after 11.04
[11:02] <ali1234> mungojerry: don't worry about it. unity is going to be largely ignored by all other distros, like all canonical "good ideas"
[11:02] <gord> mungojerry, erm its not an either or situation, ubuntu apps are patched to support indicators, if you remove the indicator applet they fallback to tray
[11:02] <mungojerry> the reality is that i will use docky within unity :S
[11:02] <Ng> ali1234: there's nothing wrong with that, we've all ignored YaST and Anaconda and dozens of other things that different distros have produced :)
[11:03] <daubers> mungojerry: But legacy support for systray has been kept since the indicators where introduced. So if _your_ apps you want don't get updated by 11.10, will you still be saying keep it then?
[11:03] <ali1234> yeah, i don't see any upstream projects dropping support for tray
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> good thing we've ignored yast too
[11:03] <ali1234> anaconda also sucks
[11:03] <mungojerry> daubers: although unity wasn't the default previous to 11.04
[11:03] <daubers> mungojerry: Why does that change things? The app indicataors weren't introduced in Unity?
[11:03] <ali1234> HazRPG: it's done in software
[11:04]  * Ng looks forward to network management moving to an indicator so I can forcibly turn off the notification area and get rid of the stupid HP logo that their printer management stuff puts in there
[11:05] <mungojerry> daubers: some functionality can be moved from systray to the launcher with libunity, but libunity is new. not everything fits in the memenu thing that i never think of using
[11:05] <ali1234> the meme-nu sucks
[11:05] <daubers> mungojerry: But that ability has mostly been part of libindicator? The libunity stuff was just for the indicators on the icons isn't it?
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> Ng: but it's a BRANDING OPPORTUNITY
[11:05] <ali1234> yet another thing that doesn't work properly with 2 monitors
[11:05] <ali1234> not that the thing it replaces did either
[11:06] <Ng> MartijnVdS: yes, that's partly why I hate it. the blue hp logo looks totally out of place on my sleek, dark panel :)
[11:06] <gord> eh the me menu works fine with multiple monitors here
[11:06] <mungojerry> i already mentioned some apps that don't work, and the answer is that you haven't heard of them/don't use them
[11:06] <mungojerry> there's 50,000 apps out there, and a lot will break
[11:06] <mungojerry> unityocalypse
[11:06] <daubers> mungojerry: But they've had the opportunity to resolve that since the indicators where introduced x releases ago
[11:06] <HazRPG> ali1234: well... yeah its an AVR but his site just shows changes he's done - not the actual stuff to upload to your AVR
[11:06] <daubers> mungojerry: I know some people that still run win 95 machines as the apps they require haven't been updated to run on anything more recent
[11:06] <Ng> mungojerry: which do you expect is more likely to cause thse apps to be improved - a) 'one more cycle of no action required', b) 'no more cycles of no action required'? :)
[11:07] <daubers> You have to drop support for legacy stuff at some point
[11:07] <HazRPG> I could be on the wrong site however...
[11:07]  * screen-x has a win3.1 box connected to an hplc machine :)
[11:07] <mungojerry> next LTS ?
[11:07] <Ng> getting this sort of change in a year before an LTS is perfect
[11:07] <daubers> The releases between LTS's are when stuff should be dropped changed, so it's stable for the next LTS
[11:07] <gord> yeah doing it on an LTS is really a bad idea
[11:07] <ali1234> mungojerry: no point in this argument, just switch to debian
[11:08] <mungojerry> :(
[11:08] <gord> mungojerry, the reality is that this switch couldn't be made at any "good" time, but its something that should be done
[11:08] <gord> 50,000 apps aren't going to be checked and patched any time soon and leaving in legacy support stops anyone from wanting to patch
[11:09] <davmor2> morning all
[11:09] <mungojerry> gord: i agree to an extent, except that unity is so new, it will cause a lot of breakage, maybe people don't realise how much
[11:09] <ali1234> the thing is, the authors of those 50,000 apps aren't actually going to patch them either way
[11:09] <ali1234> your package maintainers are going to have to do it
[11:09] <mungojerry> not all developers are on board with the changes cos they are ubuntu only
[11:09] <daubers> mungojerry: So we should never change anything?
[11:09] <gord> mungojerry, actually no
[11:10] <ali1234> so you better make sure you don't drive them all to debian
[11:10] <mungojerry> if ubuntu was the only linux distro then fine.
[11:10] <gord> the indicator stack is based on a freedesktop.org spec, everyone bar gnome-shell is moving towards it
[11:10] <mungojerry> you can do what apple did with mac os 9->10
[11:10]  * davmor2 scruffs up czajkowski hair, then sprays it with hair spray so it stays like it
[11:10] <HazRPG> ali1234: ah, found some schematics, and an etch layout :)
[11:11] <mungojerry> gord: what will happen with next fedora, will they drop systray?
[11:11]  * DJones replaces davmor2's tin of hair spray with a tin of blue spray paint
[11:11] <mungojerry> i'm happy to lose this argument if it means that unity works for me :)
[11:11] <gord> i have no idea what fedora is going to do
[11:12] <Ng> second guessing what fedora is going to do for its mostly-just-developers audience seems like a weird thing to be doing
[11:12] <mungojerry> i have dependency on a lot of apps on my work PC, it's definitely styying on 10.04 LTS for the time being
[11:12] <Ng> there's nothing wrong with that
[11:13] <popey> http://bit.ly/fQ36do wow
[11:13] <daubers> mungojerry: Thats why LTS's exist
[11:13] <mungojerry> Ng: fedora has not many regular users? i disagree
[11:13] <mungojerry> daubers: true :)
[11:13]  * czajkowski frowns at DJones 
[11:13] <Ng> mungojerry: a distro that doesn't support upgrades has lots of regular users? I really find that hard to believe :)
[11:13] <czajkowski> DJones: naughty step for you
[11:14] <ali1234> fedora is pretty lol
[11:14] <Ng> mungojerry: fedora is the bleeding edge. it's a good thing that it exists, but it's not user focussed like ubuntu is, imho
[11:14] <DJones> czajkowski: Ah well, will there be room on the naughty step?
[11:14] <ali1234> i don't see how anyone can use it
[11:14] <gord> popey, i only got one :( - what is that using? clever js or just crazy url redirection...
[11:14] <kazade> popey, 7 seconds ;)
[11:14] <kazade> that's pretty cool
[11:15] <mungojerry> the comp sci dept at my employer use it in their labs
[11:15] <DJones> Yay 4 in 16 seconds
[11:15] <Ng> comp sci = developers ;)
[11:16] <mungojerry> on another story, i just got a quote back from dell after getting windows tax removed
[11:16] <mungojerry> i chose the lamest win7 option (win 7 home no media). £459...take off win 7 and get £422 :)
[11:17] <screen-x> gord location.hash http://probablyinteractive.com/url-hunter/url-hunter.js
[11:19] <gord> ah, makes sense but less impressive now :)
[11:19] <AlanBell> I was just reading that
[11:19] <gord> http://fractal.io/ is more impressive for those of us running firefox 4 (prolly chrome too)
[11:21] <DJones> Chrome doesn't like that website "WebGL not supported by your browser" and I'm using 11.0.696.0 dev
[11:21] <czajkowski> DJones: not at the rate davmor2 is teacing people
[11:21] <czajkowski> *teaching
[11:23] <screen-x> DJones: wfm 9.0.597.98
[11:23] <kazade> DJones, I *think* that Chrome only enable WebGL on under the proprietary Nvidia driver..
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> kazade: 10.0.648.127 on natty has it enabled properly on my Intel card/driver
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> bodybrowser.googlelabs.com works \o/
[11:24] <kazade> hmm, ok, I'm wrong then :)
[11:25] <popey> doesnt work on windows either in chrome 11
[11:25] <gord> i'v heard some people say it doesn't work on their intel gpu's
[11:25] <DJones> This looks like a fix http://www.m0interactive.com/archives/2009/10/26/how_to_enable_webgl_on_google_chrome.html at the bottom of the page
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> DJones: only in old versions
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> current versions (9 and up) have it enabled by default
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> 8 has it as an option (about:flags)
[11:27] <screen-x> Web browsers are awesome :)
[11:32] <DJones> Looks like its that webGL page thats the problem, other ones are working
[11:33] <davmor2> czajkowski: He's not learnt that from me I'd of gone for illuminous Green
[11:35] <gord> honestly its using some advanced shader's to generate the 3d fractals. if you have a crappy gpu its gonna fail
[11:36] <Ng> ;1
[11:36] <Ng> doh
[11:37]  * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
[11:37] <davmor2> czajkowski: What you started it
[11:40]  * mungojerry is looking at weird footage of a tsunami carrying burning debris
[11:41] <kazade> mungojerry, I've been looking at this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709856
[11:42] <mungojerry> whoah
[11:42] <mungojerry> if i learned anything from scooby doo, it's that the boat shoudn't be near the middle of that
[11:43] <czajkowski> If anyone is looking for work, we're looking for a support enginner to cover one of the shifts. pm for more details
[11:48] <daubers> In a similar vain to czajkowski, I'm after a python/c programmer :)
[11:49] <ali1234> i've got one of those anti virus cold callers...
[11:49] <directhex> http://www.oerc.ox.ac.uk/jobs/osc-systems-manager
[11:50] <directhex> ali1234, "hi, i'm from microsoft, give me remote access & all your money"?
[11:50] <ali1234> yes
[11:51] <daubers> ali1234: Take a guess at their flowchart and convince them you know it because of the virii on their computers, then sell them Norton for a couple of hundred quids
[11:51] <directhex> daubers, they're dumb. they just read a script.
[11:52] <ali1234> lol confused him with "no items"
[11:54] <directhex> ali1234, he's not technically literate. you'd confuse him with CP, if you moved the task bar to a different edge to normal
[11:54] <directhex> XP
[11:56] <czajkowski> http://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/06-jan-2011/were-hiring-our-weybridge-offices
[11:57] <directhex> pfft, weybridge, when there's an opening in the dreaming spires of oxford?
[11:59] <czajkowski> directhex: you dont need to come in
[12:00] <czajkowski> this job you just need to have internet access
[12:00] <directhex> oh bums
[12:00] <directhex> you win this round!
[12:00] <czajkowski> directhex: you are so charming
[12:00] <directhex> i have all the charm of a room filled with cats
[12:01] <czajkowski> yeah charming is not how I refer to rooms filled with cats my dear
[12:01] <czajkowski> next time heads up before I sit down and blocked in and cant get out
[12:01] <directhex> i have all the charm of a room filled with cats.
[12:02] <czajkowski> >:(
[12:03] <ali1234> haha, dude got mad when he figured out i was just winding him up
[12:03] <directhex> ali1234, ask him if his family know he's a criminal
[12:03] <popey> \o/ cats
[12:04] <popey> ali1234: what did he ask you to do? go to a web page or something?
[12:04] <ali1234> no
[12:04] <ali1234> it didn't get that far
[12:04] <ali1234> he asked me to look in event viewer like they always do
[12:04] <popey> heh, you make it sound like an interactive fiction game :)
[12:04] <popey> oh, what are you supposed to look for?
[12:04] <ali1234> so i told him it was empty
[12:04] <ali1234> event viewer is always full of crap so there's always something bad there
[12:05] <popey> true
[12:05] <ali1234> so anyway this confused him (it's *never* empty unless you manually clear it)
[12:05] <ali1234> so he gets his "supervisor" AKA the guy who runs the scam
[12:05] <ali1234> and he's like "oh you need to extend your warranty to see the problems"
[12:05] <mungojerry> ali1234: what accent did he have?
[12:06] <ali1234> indian/pakistani/somewhere around there
[12:06] <ali1234> so anyway he says "oh the problems are inside your computer"
[12:06] <ali1234> so i put the phone inside the computer for a bit and then said "it looks OK"
[12:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Adding tasks to Evolution from Python - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/03/11/adding-tasks-to-evolution-from-python
[12:07] <directhex> mungojerry, they all operate out of the same city in india
[12:07] <mungojerry> directhex: genuine call centres or fake ones?
[12:08] <popey> er
[12:08] <mungojerry> or maybe they are the same place.
[12:08] <popey> what is a "fake call centre"?
[12:08] <mungojerry> popey: what ali1234 just received
[12:08] <popey> ah
[12:08] <popey> "fake call" centre
[12:08] <mungojerry> maybe they stay late to pull a bit of overtime
[12:08] <directhex> mungojerry, a call center filled with criminal scammers
[12:08] <popey> not fake "call centre"
[12:08] <directhex> like popey says
[12:09] <mungojerry> well he did go get his supervisor
[12:09] <mungojerry> that's better service than i usually get
[12:09] <mungojerry> maybe i should try them when my talktalk line craps out
[12:09] <mungojerry> :)
[12:10] <mungojerry> surely there must exist "a call center filled with criminal scammers"
[12:10] <ali1234> considering how much they probably make from this
[12:10] <mungojerry> i wish i could stop paying for my land line
[12:10] <ali1234> all they need is a few laptops and people to read the scripts
[12:11] <ali1234> i doubt it comes from a real call centre company
[12:11] <mungojerry> i get fleeced liek that every time i go to the car garage
[12:11] <mungojerry> people who know about cars must laff at me
[12:13] <directhex> ali1234, it doesn't.
[12:14] <ali1234> apart from anything else, the legit companies operate 24 hours anyway, there's no such thing as "overtime"
[12:14] <directhex> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/18/phone-scam-india-call-centres
[12:16] <mungojerry> anyone ever used agresso finance system?
[12:17] <mungojerry> one of the worst products i've ever had to use
[12:17] <dogmatic69> never used IE6 then :D
[12:17] <mungojerry> it's a web based product so you coudl combine the 2
[12:18] <dogmatic69> nice
[12:18] <mungojerry> i suspect it's just my employer's implementation of it that doesn't work
[12:19] <dogmatic69> the site is broken in chrome and its full of links to sap and oracle...
[12:19] <dogmatic69> that should have been a sign
[12:19] <dogmatic69> and it runs on IIS
[12:20] <mungojerry> googling it, it seems to be mainly used in universities
[12:20] <mungojerry> hmmm
[12:20] <dogmatic69> seeing a few course for it too
[12:25] <mungojerry> :( my unity taskbar has gone all grey and "classic", a bit like when win XP goes funny and gives you the old school taskbar
[12:27] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone,
[12:35] <HazRPG> manual for my c64 arrived today :D
[12:35] <HazRPG> wow, this is well documented!
[12:35] <HazRPG> no wonder demos' were so popular
[12:36]  * HazRPG reading about sprites
[12:36] <brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
[12:36] <HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoon squire :)
[12:36] <brobostigon> squire, hmm.
[12:36] <brobostigon> :)
[12:37] <HazRPG> irc I always call people squire :)
[12:37] <HazRPG> irl*
[12:37] <brobostigon> oh, ok.
[12:37] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG esq.?
[12:37] <HazRPG> I don't like the term "mate"
[12:37] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ?
[12:37] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what's esq.?
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquire
[12:38] <brobostigon> HazRPG: its an ebbreviation for esquire.
[12:38] <HazRPG> ah
[12:38] <HazRPG> lol
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> Americans like adding it to their name to try to indicate status :)
[12:38] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what does you handle mean btw?
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Martijn = first name, "van de Streek" = my last name.. so VdS
[12:40] <HazRPG> how do you pronounce the first part?
[12:40] <HazRPG> because I keep trying to say "marti.. j... n... VdS"
[12:40] <daubers> Bleshu
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "ij" is one sound
[12:41] <HazRPG> so my typing always results in "mart<tab>j<tab>" when I type it
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/martijn
[12:42] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah, so I'm not wrong in thinking its pronounced "martin"
[12:43] <HazRPG> actually...
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: almost.. if you prounce the "i" as "eye" it's almost right
[12:43] <HazRPG> marTAYn
[12:43] <HazRPG> mart<tab>j<tab :)
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so.. are you "hassan role playing game" or "hassan rocket propelled grenade"? ;)
[12:44] <HazRPG> role playing game :)
[12:44]  * HazRPG loves RPG's
[12:45] <mungojerry> HazRPG: you're not a bot are you ? :P
[12:45] <HazRPG> my dad seems to think its Rocket Propelled Grenade - it amuses him
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: considering the times he's online.. he could be
[12:45] <HazRPG> mungojerry: xD
[12:45] <HazRPG> mungojerry: nope
[12:46] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you mean considering the light number of hours he sleeps...
[12:46] <HazRPG> little*
[12:46] <HazRPG> >_<
[12:46] <MartijnVdS> few ;)
[12:46] <HazRPG> exact.a.mondo!
[12:46] <HazRPG> <== still awake, not slept yet
[12:46] <HazRPG> ooo there's a section on sound in here too!
[12:46]  * HazRPG looks like he could be making a demo soon!
[12:47] <HazRPG> wow, basic back then was so much easier than the basic I used about 10 years ago
[12:47] <mungojerry> HazRPG: do u work?
[12:47] <mungojerry> or study
[12:47] <mungojerry> or neither :P
[12:47] <HazRPG> mungojerry: both?
[12:48] <HazRPG> studying (top up for my HND->Degree), freelance (making a hotel booking system ATM), also do LOTS of self research/studying for personal projects
[12:48] <HazRPG> and yet still have time to socialise ... somehow!
[12:50] <HazRPG> hmm, seems odd that in BASIC for the c64 - they didn't include the memory numbers as basic constant variables (or API - sort of - variables)
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> they didn't have room for symbolic names
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> just poke that address you found in the manual :)
[12:51] <HazRPG> since most of these examples basically say "make a variable with the value xxxxx, and use this for adding & subtracting to get your registers
[12:52] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: they'll have had more than enough for the base values of them though - one for video sprites and one for sound would have made all the difference)
[12:52] <HazRPG> since we have to create those anyways
[12:53] <HazRPG> just seems pointless - specially since these are fixed values anyways
[12:53] <HazRPG> especially*
[12:54] <HazRPG> great thing about emulators though, I can quickly type it out on the PC and test it (with several emu's open) then later convert over to the actual c64 :)
[12:59] <screen-x> HazRPG: can you squirt programs over to the c64 with some sort of serial connection?
[12:59] <HazRPG> screen-x: I wish
[12:59] <screen-x> HazRPG: no serial interface at all?
[12:59] <HazRPG> there is, but I don't have any cables
[12:59] <screen-x> ah
[12:59] <HazRPG> and my computer doesn't have a port to output serial (other the ps/2 if that counts)
[13:00] <screen-x> usb serial interfaces are cheap though
[13:00] <HazRPG> screen-x: however, I am planning on making a CF/SD/MMC (one of those) card reader for it
[13:01] <HazRPG> so I can test around in several environments on my PC, save bits to file... and the store them onto SD when I want to try them out on the real machine :)
[13:01] <HazRPG> that's the plan at least ;)
[13:01] <screen-x> HazRPG: wow, what sort of file system can a c64 read?
[13:01] <HazRPG> screen-x: good point :)
[13:01] <mungojerry> wow, my fascination with old stuff wears off a lot more quickly than that
[13:01] <ali1234> what is the difference between nvidia 195 series and 260 series drivers?
[13:01] <mungojerry> i tend to binge on old BBC games for 2 days max
[13:02] <HazRPG> screen-x: erm... don't know? fat16 seems to be what people are using for the SD cards
[13:02] <screen-x> HazRPG: I cant see the c64 reading that..
[13:02] <HazRPG> ali1234: mainly newer card support I think?
[13:02] <ali1234> but the 195 series isn't listed on nvidia's page
[13:02] <HazRPG> screen-x: ah, you've gotta programme a IC though
[13:03] <ali1234> yet it was developed in parallel with the 260 series drivers
[13:03] <HazRPG> ali1234: oh, sorry I thought you mean driver versions >_<
[13:03] <ali1234> i do
[13:03] <ali1234> see http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
[13:04] <ali1234> there is 260, 173, 96, and 71
[13:04] <ali1234> so what is this 195 stuff?
[13:04] <HazRPG> ali1234: where you getting that number from? I thought it was only 96, 173 and 260 :S
[13:04] <ali1234> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_archive.html
[13:05] <ali1234> on june 11 2010 they released a 195 driver in between two 256 drivers
[13:05] <ali1234> so clearly it's a different series
[13:05] <ali1234> but it's not listed on the front page
[13:05] <ali1234> so, wtf?
[13:06] <ali1234> sometimes i wonder who comes up with this stuff
[13:07] <mungojerry> i don't have the brain capacity to store all that awkward stuff
[13:07] <HazRPG> ali1234: from what I can see from all the supported products...
[13:07] <mungojerry> then i end up running the wrong driver
[13:07] <mungojerry> if i've got a FX5200 old nvidia card, which driver do i run?
[13:08] <HazRPG> 265 has most of the cards from 195... the ones that were removed appears to be in 173...
[13:08] <ali1234> so what happened to the 195 series?
[13:08] <knightwise> Aha :) Using rsh i can make my Imacs in the house "say" things using the crontab of my Ubuntu server
[13:09] <HazRPG> ali1234: I have a feeling they were forked off to 265 and 173
[13:09] <knightwise> intersting (waddles of to find an evil sceme to scare his wife using this tech)
[13:09] <ali1234> meaning... the driver version number descreased for some users?
[13:10] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm.. I'm boggled now
[13:11] <HazRPG> ali1234: could just be that it was too unstable
[13:12] <HazRPG> ali1234: ah ha!
[13:12] <HazRPG> 195 was a beta driver!
[13:13] <ali1234> the only reason i ask is because debian 6 (released last month) has only the 195 driver, which is over 6 months old and looks like no longer supported by nvidia at all
[13:14] <brobostigon> debian stable, is after all well tested, and also older for it.
[13:14] <ali1234> shipping an unsupported beta driver isn't exactly my idea of stable
[13:15] <ali1234> but even unstable doesn't have the latest driver
[13:15] <brobostigon> ali1234: they probebly well tested it, and thought it stable and tested enough, no to change it.
[13:15] <ali1234> have to go experimental for that
[13:16] <HazRPG> ah wait, 195.36.11 is final
[13:16] <ali1234> ok, is it the 260 that's beta then?
[13:16] <ali1234> because that would make more sense
[13:18] <HazRPG> no cos 256.35 is stable too apparently - but has had a lot of bug fixes, and the 195.36 only had one
[13:18] <HazRPG> so would be safe to assume that 195.36 seems to be less error prune then 265
[13:18] <HazRPG> sorry 260 even
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> error prune
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> nice typo :)
[13:19] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure the 195 driver still had that horrible memory leak where xorg chucks away 1GB of ram per day for no reason
[13:19] <brobostigon> ali1234: when i was running debian sid, i basiclly  pulled have the system from experimental, more or less. especially when i started using gnome-shell, and needed to pull gtk3, and the new app version that go with.
[13:19] <brobostigon> pulled half*
[13:20] <brobostigon> versions*
[13:20] <ali1234> yeah, i'm not the slightest bit interested in gnome3
[13:20] <HazRPG> hmm
[13:21] <HazRPG> okay, so you officially confused me ali1234 - but I think I've /sort of/ worked it out
[13:21] <ali1234> i didn't confuse you
[13:21] <HazRPG> you were saying that both released within moments of each other (almost)
[13:21] <ali1234> nvidia did it
[13:21] <ali1234> ???
[13:21] <ali1234> i just want to know how the version numbers work
[13:22] <ali1234> and under what definition 195 could be considered to be supported
[13:23] <ali1234> specifically i want to know which series 195 fits into
[13:23] <ali1234> is it the same series as 260?
[13:23] <ali1234> if it is, why were there multiple releases in the same series but out of order?
[13:23] <mungojerry> i had a severe problem where my nvidia card couldn't handle 2 monitors due to performance issues...now i'm wondering if it was the driver or the stick of super slow memory i accidentally put in the machine
[13:23] <ali1234> and why do they skip like 50 version numbers?
[13:24] <HazRPG> well both 195 and 260 appear to be similar with card compatibility
[13:24] <mungojerry> ali1234: yo uare trying to attribute common sense to a nonlogical problem :P
[13:27] <HazRPG> ali1234: I just noticed the drivers one the first link doesn't show 173
[13:27] <HazRPG> ah crud no...
[13:27] <ali1234> yes it does
[13:27] <HazRPG> yeah, just realised :/
[13:28] <HazRPG> I was looking at 71 and 173 (confusion me...)
[13:29] <HazRPG> ali1234: ... hmm, I have a feeling the numbers are just based on when it was forked off
[13:30] <ali1234> yes
[13:30] <ali1234> that's exactly my point
[13:30] <HazRPG> commit . fork-commit . version
[13:31] <ali1234> 195 was forked off last june or earlier
[13:31] <ali1234> but now it is not listed with the other legacy drivers
[13:31] <ali1234> why?
[13:31] <HazRPG> ali1234: ah, but the fork could have been from a different code base
[13:32] <HazRPG> as in, not the time it was forked - the number of which they were forking it from
[13:32] <HazRPG> would explain the leap between 195 - 260
[13:33] <HazRPG> 260 is probably the main commit number
[13:36] <directhex> there's no jump
[13:36] <HazRPG> hmm, odd
[13:36] <HazRPG> 1.x.x is how it started, and went to 100.x.x
[13:37] <directhex> the version number for the "latest version" keeps going up, although not all versions get a public release. when they remove support for some hardware, they fork that one off
[13:37] <HazRPG> then went 169.x 71.x.x
[13:37] <HazRPG> yeah, that's what I was thinking (when I tried to explain my fork theory)
[13:38] <directhex> the first linux release was 43.49
[13:38] <HazRPG> what's 1.0-1251 that was released in 2001 then :P
[13:38] <directhex> oh, and the version number is tied to the windows forceware version number it's based on
[13:39] <directhex> HazRPG, oh, yeah, the really really legacy ones in XFree86_40
[13:39] <HazRPG> ;)
[13:40] <HazRPG> lost track of my mind thought...
[13:40] <directhex> even 41.80 for amd64
[13:41] <directhex> anyway, use the latest version your hardware supports. that's the rule o' thumb. 270.30 is the latest on nvidia.com
[13:41] <HazRPG> ah I remember now (after scrolls), mungojerry: how do ya mean store awkward stuff? and your fascination with old stuff wears off so easily how?
[13:41] <HazRPG> I think I was going to word that differently earlier - but I forgets
[13:41] <ali1234> http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html latest is 260.19.44
[13:43] <mungojerry> HazRPG: awkward stuff is the nitty gritty details of what driver needs installing with which card etc...when you get to 35 you want things to just work without remembering so much :)
[13:43] <HazRPG> ali1234: latest, as in beta driver is 270
[13:43] <mungojerry> and as for old stuff.. the nostalgia draws me in but the reality often disappoints
[13:43] <HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/linux-display-amd64-270.26-driver-uk.html
[13:43] <HazRPG> mungojerry: reality of what?
[13:44] <mungojerry> HazRPG: reality of playing old games you used to love
[13:44] <mungojerry> in my memory the graphics and gameplay are better
[13:44] <mungojerry> the reality is that the graphics really suck
[13:45] <mungojerry> and you get a bit bored
[13:45] <HazRPG> mungojerry: I wouldn't say that, I most of my friends are in the the 25-40... and most of them still get down to nitty gritty - it just depends how much your really into it
[13:45] <knightwise> i would like to setup a vm just to play Xwing vs Tie fighter again
[13:45] <mungojerry> HazRPG: there's nitty gritty and nitty gritty :P
[13:45] <HazRPG> :P
[13:45] <knightwise> but i'm not sure if it would would run inside a vm
[13:46] <gord> knightwise, wasn't that a dos game?
[13:46] <HazRPG> knightwise: what type of games?
[13:47] <HazRPG> knightwise: if dos - try DOSbox instead
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> DOSbox ftw
[13:47] <knightwise> dosbox ?
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> I've been playing Frontier: Elite 2  again
[13:47] <HazRPG> knightwise: if old-school windows (pre-XP), try wine ;)
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: dosbox.
[13:47] <knightwise> is that a vm ?
[13:47] <knightwise> it is old school windwos
[13:47] <HazRPG> knightwise: it's a dos emulator ;)
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: sort of-ish.
[13:47] <knightwise> ya think i might be able to pull that off under wine , would be very very cool
[13:47]  * knightwise loves xwing vs tie fighter
[13:47] <HazRPG> knightwise: VMs = computer emulator, dosbox = Just dos emulator
[13:48] <knightwise> i'm not sure if itss a complete dosgame
[13:48] <knightwise> dont think so
[13:48] <HazRPG> knightwise: if its pre-XP, wine will run it more then perfectly
[13:48] <ali1234> Xwing was pure dos
[13:48] <gord> its a windows game, 1997
[13:48] <ali1234> i used to have to use a dos bootdisc to play it because it wouldn't work properly through win3.1
[13:48] <HazRPG> if in doubt, check www.winehq.org
[13:49] <popey> or run file foo.exe :)
[13:49] <mungojerry> MartijnVdS: ever play oolite?
[13:50] <popey> oooo i have a hankering for some oldschool dos games now
[13:50] <knightwise> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=8156
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: oolite?
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: don't know it
[13:50] <mungojerry> oolite is a remake of the original elite, but is fantastic
[13:50] <mungojerry> really well made
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> oooo
[13:51] <HazRPG> knightwise: seems dosbox will run X-Wing: http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/GAMES:X-Wing
[13:51] <mungojerry> MartijnVdS: the best thing is that the expansion packs actually allow the legendary generation ships and other ficititous stuff
[13:51] <knightwise> yeah , but its xwing vs Tie fighter (different game)
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: it's more like elite than frontier
[13:52] <knightwise> maybe i just need a legacy PIII machine running Windows 98 :)
[13:53] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: (i.e. ship control is annoying)
[13:53] <mungojerry> MartijnVdS: never played frontier. it's like arcElite..annoying how?
[13:53] <HazRPG> knightwise: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1404466.html
[13:54] <HazRPG> knightwise: discussion about X-Wing vs Tie Fighter
[13:55] <ali1234> mungojerry: in frontier they had "realistic" physics
[13:55] <ali1234> ie you could keep accelerating for half an hour
[13:55] <ali1234> then it took another half an hour too stop
[13:55] <gord> for those that suddenly need to play dos games, you can buy digital downloads here :) http://www.gog.com/
[13:55] <mungojerry> lol
[13:55] <HazRPG> knightwise: there was no game called just "X-Wing" or just "Tie fighter", there was only X-Wing vs Tie fighter
[13:55] <ali1234> this usually resulted in the autopilot slamming you into a planet or something
[13:56] <mungojerry> ali1234: is that a good thing ?
[13:56] <ali1234> frontier was basically unplayable because of this
[13:56] <mungojerry> ali1234: have you tried oolite ?
[13:56] <ali1234> yes
[13:56] <gord> HazRPG, what? yes there was
[13:56] <gord> HazRPG, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_X-Wing_%28series%29
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that was not frontier, that was first encounters
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: frontier was quite nice
[13:56] <mungojerry> no game comes close to reviving the gaming joys of my youth
[13:56] <ali1234> frontier was exactly the same as first encounters
[13:57] <ali1234> they tried to actually fix some of the problems in first encounters
[13:57] <ali1234> but it was basically just ane xpansion pack
[13:57] <ali1234> the other lol thing about frontier was the broken copy protection
[13:57] <HazRPG> gord: either way, that thread mentions that it should work in dosbox
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: first encounters had textures
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and copy protection actually worked for me
[13:58] <ali1234> yes, FE had textures on PC
[13:58] <ali1234> because it came after frontier
[13:58]  * popey hugs MartijnVdS for introducing him to lemongrass
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: FE crashed a lot, F didn't (for me, on PC)
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> popey: ♫ A journey to a star
[13:58] <ali1234> it was even fully named frontier: first encounters
[13:58] <ali1234> because it was basically the same game, except finished, unlike frontier which was totally broken
[13:59] <popey> Bee
[13:59] <screen-x> Elite \o/
[13:59] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: FFE was shipped early/unfinished.
[13:59] <ali1234> no, frontier was shipped early/unfinished
[14:00] <ali1234> FFE might have been as well, i don't know, they never made an amiga version
[14:00]  * screen-x goes back to sleep^Wwork
[14:00] <ali1234> not that i would have bought it after the awful mess of frontier
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Maybe the amiga version was shipped early.. the PC version is OK :)
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's not as bad as FFE
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah, the PC version of Frontier was re-written in asm
[14:02] <mungojerry> i wonder what games people will be fondly recollecting in 20 years time
[14:03] <brobostigon> ok, suggestions, i need something constructive to do.
[14:03] <mungojerry> popey: are you near your natty PC, or at work?
[14:04] <DJones> mungojerry: People will still be talking about Manic Miner & Jetset Willy
[14:04] <popey> i am on a natty pc, but booted to osx
[14:04] <popey> cant reboot it atm
[14:04] <mungojerry> popey: OK..i have lots of breakage right now, wondering if others had it ..no probs
[14:04] <mungojerry> DJones: and world of goo hopefully :P
[14:04] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i am on natty, but inside gnome-shell not unity, can i help.
[14:05] <DJones> mungojerry: I've heard of that, but never seen it
[14:05] <mungojerry> DJones: really?
[14:05] <DJones> mungojerry: Really, and I've never seen Angry Birds :)
[14:06]  * mungojerry resists making a joke...
[14:06] <mungojerry> world of goo is part of humble indie bundle
[14:06] <mungojerry> you could buy for any price u wanted
[14:07] <mungojerry> it's a great little game
[14:07] <ali1234> world of goo is kind of forgettable
[14:07] <ali1234> it's not hard enough
[14:07] <ali1234> at least not the shareware levels
[14:08] <brobostigon> angry birds is just around 17MB, thats too big, :(
[14:08] <mungojerry> ali1234: i think the shareware levels/demo ones were the first few to get you into the game
[14:09] <ali1234> i didn't feel like i wanted to see any more after those
[14:09] <mungojerry> i tend to prefer indie games
[14:10] <ali1234> actually my impression of the game could be summed up as "lemmings without the character or challenge"
[14:10] <mungojerry> mmm lemmings
[14:11] <mungojerry> lemmings first few levels were easy too
[14:11] <DJones> I must find a version of choplifter
[14:11] <ali1234> but the demos they made were moe challenging than the beginner levels
[14:12] <mungojerry> twas a great game
[14:13] <xr1> Hi, is there any way I can send documents to another computer and print then off automatically?
[14:13] <Myrtti> thank you universe, for giving me a headache
[14:13] <xr1> Example, I work from office and sent docs to home and get them to print off automatically?
[14:14] <AlanBell> xr1: send by email?
[14:14] <DJones> xr1: I did see something the other day from google that would let you do that
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> expose the printer over the internet
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> and then use it :)
[14:14] <mungojerry> you could have a watch folder in ubuntuone/dropbox
[14:14] <AlanBell> use ssh to tunnel home and print
[14:14] <DJones> xr1: http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/p/cloudprint.html
[14:15] <DJones> But sounds like it might only be windows at the minute
[14:15] <Myrtti> "For Windows XP, Vista, and 7"
[14:15]  * MartijnVdS 's printer has an IPv6 address
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> if I open up my firewall, anyone can print to it :)
[14:16] <AlanBell> cat /dev/random > printer.martijnVdS.net
[14:16] <DJones> Hmmh https://github.com/armooo/cloudprint#readme
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: good thing my firewall is still on then
[14:18] <xr1> DJones: that might work then because the persons computer is windows 7, only mine is ubuntu.
[14:19] <DJones> xr1: I've not looked into it any further other than thinking that it was a good idea
[14:21] <xr1> Ok thanks for your help.
[14:30] <kazade> what the... all of our sites have gone down, even though they run on different hosts and it's not a DNS issue..
[14:30] <kazade> is anyone else seeing a widespread outage?
[14:31] <kazade> I have sites on Webfusion and EC2 not responding..
[14:32] <mungojerry> nope
[14:32] <mungojerry> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
[14:32] <kazade> yeah, that's returning that they are all down
[14:32] <kazade> even using IP addresses
[14:32] <kazade> this makes absolutely no sense
[14:33] <screen-x> kazade: url?
[14:33] <kazade> www.postgrad.com
[14:33] <kazade> or www.riverhall.co.uk
[14:33] <kazade> one is EC2 the other is Wordpress
[14:33] <kazade> there is NOTHING in common with the DNS, they are separate DNS hosts
[14:33] <mungojerry> yeah, they are bust
[14:33] <screen-x> both look down from here
[14:33] <kazade> wtf?
[14:34] <kazade> how in the world does that happen?
[14:34] <mungojerry> haven't heard any explosions
[14:34] <mungojerry> housed in the same data centre?
[14:34] <kazade> the former is EC2, the latter is Wordpress.com
[14:34] <mungojerry> remember that fire in texas Datacentre that took out millions of sites
[14:34] <kazade> also I have another VM that is WebFusion, and that's down too
[14:35] <mungojerry> perhaps wordpress use EC2 :P
[14:35] <screen-x> wordpress.com is ok from here
[14:35] <kazade> yeah, the site itself is..
[14:35] <screen-x> http://twitter.com/#search?q=ec2
[14:35] <kazade> ah ok..
[14:35] <kazade> there is a redirect I forgot about
[14:35] <screen-x> ah
[14:36] <popey> hehe
[14:36] <popey> PICNIC
[14:36] <kazade> but still WebFusion and EC2..
[14:36] <popey> Problem In Chair, Not In Computer
[14:37] <mungojerry> traceroute dies at amazon
[14:37] <mungojerry> other traceroute dies at BlueConnex-Infrastructure
[14:37] <mungojerry> maybe they all just hate u
[14:41] <mungojerry> yay just saved my company £200 on a 5 PC order by dropping the windows tax :)
[14:41] <brobostigon> :)
[14:42] <mungojerry> some things in this world are just wrong...one of them is win tax
[14:42]  * brobostigon gets mungojerry some live usb, alternate install media, to install from.
[14:42] <mungojerry> PXE boot :)
[14:42] <brobostigon> :)
[14:43] <mungojerry> ready on your desk in 20 mins sir
[14:43] <brobostigon> :)
[14:43] <mungojerry> or 10 mins without adobe_reader.rpm
[14:43] <kazade> ok, I'm wrong
[14:43] <mungojerry> hugs kazade
[14:44] <kazade> everything is somehow related to EC2 not responding
[14:44] <mungojerry> puts 50p in the meter for amazon
[14:44] <kazade> yet, all the EC2 instances are up.. and the Elastic IPs are point at them
[14:44] <kazade> and the security group hasn't changed
[14:44] <screen-x> kazade: can you connect out from the ec2 instances?
[14:44] <kazade> I can't ssh TO the ec2 instances :(
[14:45] <screen-x> kazade: :(
[14:45] <screen-x> no issues showing on http://status.aws.amazon.com/
[14:45] <screen-x> DJones: just tried that cloudprint proxy from github, works :)
[14:46] <DJones> screen-x: Excellent, I'll have to look at installing that
[14:46] <screen-x> DJones: seems to be limited to printing from mobile devices at the moment.. strange.
[14:46] <kazade> aha, ok I can get to one VM
[14:46] <kazade> it's in eu-west-1b the others are in eu-west-1a
[14:46] <DJones> screen-x: Not so useful then
[14:47] <screen-x> DJones: no, not till support is added to desktop versions of gmail,docs,etc
[14:47] <kazade> "Small number of EC2 instances unavailable in a single availability zone in the EU-WEST-1 region."
[14:47] <kazade> balls
[14:48] <ali12345> i thought the cloud was supposed to fix problems like that?
[14:48]  * popey looks for the silver lining on kazade's cloud
[14:48] <popey> ooo, you have gained a 5 ali12345
[14:48] <kazade> popey, what makes things worse
[14:48] <kazade> is I was made redundant 1 hour ago
[14:48] <ali12345> popey: i'm inside a debian VM
[14:48] <mungojerry> kazade: really, no :(
[14:48] <kazade> yes
[14:48] <mungojerry> kazade: more hugs
[14:48] <mungojerry> that sucks dude
[14:48] <ali12345> trying to figure out what it will take to migrate away from ubuntu
[14:49] <kazade> so coming back from the lunch meeting where I get the sack, I get an urgent message that everything is down
[14:49] <daubers> kazade: Where are you based?
[14:49] <kazade> today is pannign out REALLY well
[14:49] <kazade> Pinner
[14:49] <kazade> NW London
[14:49] <daubers> Really? Who where you working for?
[14:50] <kazade> a small company :)
[14:50] <kazade> of just me and the boss
[14:50] <daubers> Not Bluefish or Polar graphic
[14:50] <popey> oh crud, sorry to hear that kazade
[14:50] <kazade> nah
[14:50] <kazade> :(
[14:50] <popey> when's last day?
[14:50] <kazade> well, my boss has been quite generous, he's basically said he'll keep me on till I find another job
[14:50] <mungojerry> lunch meetings where you get the sack are rubbish...i had one of those but i was told before i bit into my sossy sandwich that i'd paid for.. it didn't get eaten after...
[14:51] <kazade> but I don't expect that to last more than 2 months max
[14:51] <popey> thats good
[14:51] <screen-x> kazade: awww not a good day :(
[14:51] <mungojerry> cz-tab is hiring
[14:51] <screen-x> daubers: snap up a gooden
[14:52] <mungojerry> http://i.imgur.com/2JEiF.png here's my unity session right now.
[14:53] <ali1234> "lol"
[14:53] <davmor2> mungojerry: saying cz-tab instead of czajkowski is likely to get you stabbed, beaten or laughed at depending on her mood
[14:53] <kazade> phew, EC2 is back
[14:53] <screen-x> mungojerry: lost gnome-settings-daemon?
[14:53] <mungojerry> davmor2: now you pinger her i probably will get stabbed along with you too
[14:53] <mungojerry> :)
[14:54] <mungojerry> screen-x: i dunno what's happened tbh...after a recent updatre
[14:54] <screen-x> kazade: both sites look ok now
[14:54] <DJones> mungojerry: I wouldn't worry, 1st offence is only the naughty step and davmor2 + MooDoo have got that fully occupied
[14:54] <mungojerry> DJones: lol
[14:55] <davmor2> mungojerry: she has cz listed to ping her
[14:55] <mungojerry> really? scary
[14:55] <mungojerry> thats like popey listing uupc
[14:55] <mungojerry> i mentioned it once in a room far far away and popey came running
[14:55] <mungojerry> i don't think pidgin has that feature
[14:56] <popey> :)
[14:56] <popey> i have some odd things on highlight
[14:56] <mungojerry> i was hoping to find anyone running unity to confirm if i've broken my install or not
[14:56] <mungojerry> popey: is it an irc function or your client?
[14:57] <popey> irssi
[14:57] <mungojerry> ah
[14:57] <davmor2> mungojerry: it looks like you have defaulted to the default gnome icons, open a terminal and type unity see if that fixes it for you
[14:57] <mungojerry> davmor2: tried that, and unity --reset
[14:58] <mungojerry> reboot, and all
[14:58] <davmor2> mungojerry: have you tried sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade it may be a package breakage
[14:58] <mungojerry> davmor2: yes, unfortuatneyly
[14:59] <davmor2> mungojerry: ask gord to fix it /me runs for cover
[15:00] <gord> mungojerry, why do you have gnome panel on there?
[15:00] <mungojerry> i haven't done anything special
[15:00] <gord> it looks like you have broken your install
[15:00] <gord> get an alpha 3 live image
[15:00] <mungojerry> it just appeared like that :(
[15:00] <mungojerry> ok, so long as it's just me , i'll destroy and try again...
[15:00] <popey> I wouldnt
[15:01] <popey> if it were me
[15:01] <mungojerry> what's gir11.2.unity?
[15:01] <mungojerry> !gir1
[15:04] <mungojerry> gord, should my machine also be acting liek winxp in that it is a quick boot and then longish wait to a working desktop?
[15:10] <mungojerry> just froze my machine HARD ..think its time for the new image..
[15:17]  * daubers was hoping his new HDD would turn up today :(
[15:18] <davmor2> daubers: it will 2 minutes after you go out somewhere
[15:18] <daubers> davmor2: Coming through work, so probably not :)
[15:19] <daubers> Hooray for enterprise grade 2.5" disks
[15:19] <screen-x> where can I redirect mountall output during boot to, so that it will survive?
[15:19] <screen-x> bug 445181
[15:19] <screen-x> suggests > /dev/.udev/mountall.log 2>&1
[15:20] <screen-x> but the log file doesn't seem to survive
[15:20] <screen-x> :q
[15:20] <daubers> screen-x: /dev/tty0?
[15:21] <daubers> can you pipe to a tty like that?
[15:21] <daubers> screen-x: Or to a bit of python to throw it out the serial connection :)
[15:22] <popey> that seems like an odd place to log
[15:22] <screen-x> popey: yeah, but its got to be a fairly odd place to exist before mountall runs, and survive
[15:22] <czajkowski> davmor2: oi!
[15:23] <mungojerry> yay fixed my unity problem :)
[15:23] <popey> screen-x: /etc somewhere :)
[15:23] <screen-x> it also seems to work, as the bug reporter is able to obtain a log.
[15:23] <screen-x> popey: will etc be mounted?
[15:23] <davmor2> czajkowski: what now?
[15:23] <popey> I should hope so
[15:23]  * screen-x tries it
[15:24] <czajkowski> davmor2: comment up there
[15:25] <davmor2> czajkowski: What it's true you don't like cz-tab <cztab> :P and you do stab, beat or laugh depending on your mood :P
[15:25] <daubers> Might not be as you may still be in the initramfs
[15:27] <mungojerry> davmor2: this reminds me of the time i met a guy called ginger john, except i didn't know thats what everyone called him when he WASN'T THERE
[15:29]  * kazade sighs
[15:29] <kazade> I need a beer
[15:29] <mungojerry> not surprised dude, bad day for you :(
[15:30]  * knightwise loves ssh :) working at a clients place with all the comforts from home
[15:31] <bigcalm> PHP's error_log - I need to log E_ALL to file as well as it continuing to go to stdout (web browser). Any idea how?
[15:32] <DJones> knightwise: Wouldn't the better idea be to work from home using ssh to access the clients system, then you do get all the comforts of home
[15:33] <knightwise> lol thats true
[15:33] <knightwise> well , i'm fixing up a mac onsite
[15:33] <knightwise> so
[15:33] <screen-x> trying to write to /etc/ caused mountall to fail completely, I ended up at the give password for maintainance or Control-D to continue prompt.
[15:36] <X3N> bigcalm: display_errors = on ; error_log = /var/log/php-erros.log
[15:36] <screen-x> I'm having this problem where NFS mounts fail, and cause boot to fail. Its probably due to complicated networking config, which package should I file a bug against?
[15:36] <bigcalm> Ta
[15:37] <screen-x> nfs-common?
[15:37] <X3N> (in php.ini obviously)
[15:37] <bigcalm> Going to put into .htaccess instead. I only want logging on one site
[15:38] <X3N> oh right, yeah
[15:38] <brobostigon> i have my brother burning a linux live cd, so we can repair his hdd's, because window's have messed up.
[15:38] <brobostigon> has*
[15:39] <knightwise> hahah  found a cool apple wallpaper
[15:39] <knightwise> " i replaced a pc" it says :)
[15:39] <knightwise> need one of those for linux
[15:41] <mungojerry> i want one that says "i don't need no antivirus"
[15:42] <knightwise> hahah :) that would be a good one too
[15:43] <popey> knightwise: url?
[15:44] <knightwise> http://www.macwallpapers.eu/wallpaper/Pc-Mac-Apple-Leopard-Os-Desktop/
[15:44] <mungojerry> i've seen one of a lady dressed as a french maid, saying "i don't do windows"
[15:45] <mungojerry> rather surprised how much flesh is on display when using strict search in google images for ubuntu wallpaper
[15:47]  * popey notes a mac _is_ a pc
[15:47] <knightwise> symantics
[15:47] <czajkowski> popey: missing from #council channel :)
[15:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: It's not quite IBM-PC compatible
[15:48] <mungojerry> http://ipadwallpaper.eu/wallpapers/2/android-eating-apple.jpg :P
[15:48] <popey> neither were olivetti pcs and they were still called pc
[15:48] <popey> aaaanyway
[15:48] <popey> home time \o/
[15:48] <bigcalm> Even with piping tar over ssh from one ubuntu machine to another, only getting 2MB/s over wifi :(
[15:49] <screen-x> bigcalm: roobesh
[15:49] <bigcalm> screen-x: iain@iain-Studio-1558:~/Music$ tar cf - . | ssh revo "cd /media/exdrive1/Music; tar xf -"
[15:50] <screen-x> bigcalm: test with iperf afterwards
[15:50] <andylockran> hey guys
[15:50] <andylockran> how's things?
[15:50] <screen-x> howdy howdy howdy andylockran ;-)
[15:50] <andylockran> :)
[15:50] <andylockran> I'm loved.
[15:50] <bigcalm> Watching the bandwidth usage on the router shows a range of 2MB/s to 2.5MB/s
[15:52] <bigcalm> I have never ever ever seen more than 2ish MB/s on scp in an internal network
[15:52] <bigcalm> A bit depressing
[15:53] <X3N> there's a reasonably large overhead for sshfs, but I've had better speeds than that
[15:53] <bigcalm> What's the best method to copy over a trusted network then?
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> networks aren't trusted.
[15:54] <X3N> I use woof
[15:54] <gord> i just use samba everywhere...
[15:55] <knightwise> Gaah ! Fracking bootcamp drivers
[15:56] <X3N> bigcalm: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/woof.html
[15:56] <bigcalm> X3N: cheers
[15:57] <X3N> usage ./woof.py file_you_want_to_send.lolz
[15:57] <bigcalm> X3N: 15gb of mp3s :)
[15:57] <screen-x> bigcalm: nfs
[15:58] <X3N> or maybe rsync
[15:59] <screen-x> bigcalm: also you can put pv in the pipe, to see how fast its flowing
[15:59] <bigcalm> Humm
[16:00] <bigcalm> I can see the data rate on the router
[16:05] <X3N> you could setup a light http server, and then wget the files..
[16:05] <X3N> wget -np -r
[16:06] <screen-x> or you could print each mp3 an A1 sized qr code
[16:06] <knightwise> and use a pen to copy them over
[16:20]  * bigcalm head-desks
[16:20] <dogmatic69> anyone used gitosis before?
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: why? :)
[16:20] <bigcalm> error_log isn't saving to file :(
[16:20] <dogmatic69> looking for the web front end stuff
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> ?!
[16:20]  * brobostigon puts apillow between bigcalm's head, and the desk.
[16:21] <mungojerry> is tempted to perform an scp test on his network
[16:21] <bigcalm> Using ini_set('error_log', '/foo/bar.log'); which I know works on another project
[16:21] <bigcalm> But not here
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> haha php
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> :P
[16:23]  * mungojerry is breaking the sysadmin golden rule again by upgrading software late on friday
[16:23] <screen-x> mungojerry: Nooooooooooooo! Doooooont do it!
[16:23]  * screen-x has learnt this lesson. 
[16:24] <dogmatic69> nothing like working to the early hours of sunday morning :)
[16:24] <mungojerry> it's not software that will affect the infrastructure
[16:24] <mungojerry> it's independent - either it will work, or not
[16:24] <screen-x> mungojerry: hmmmmmm nothing is ever independent.
[16:26] <bigcalm> How would I watch ls | wc ?
[16:27] <X3N> watch 'ls | wc' ?
[16:27] <bigcalm> Aha
[16:27] <mungojerry>  watch --interval 1 "ls | wc -l"
[16:27] <bigcalm> Thanks both :)
[16:28] <X3N> mungojerry: --interval=1 or -n 1
[16:28] <X3N> ;)
[16:29] <mungojerry> hmm..works on my machine :P
[16:30] <X3N> the ;) was for the pedants
[16:32] <kazade> my google-foo is failing me.. how do I create a bzr branch without a working tree?
[16:32] <kazade> oops --no-tree
[16:33] <kazade> sigh, it's one of those days today
[16:34] <mungojerry> screen-x: upgrade was a success :P
[16:37] <bigcalm> Gah, error_log() was sending to the apache error log, not the file I had specified
[16:37]  * bigcalm sighs
[16:43] <screen-x> mungojerry: yay :)
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12703674
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: now you want a ZX as well as the C64 ;)
[16:44] <mungojerry> anyone who hasn't seen micromen on BBC should watch it
[16:46]  * brobostigon has seen it multiple times, :)
[16:46] <mungojerry> gonna try and give up IRC next week
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: NOOOO
[16:46] <mungojerry> spending too many idle brain CPU cycles on it
[16:47] <fourkuchen> just testing
[16:47] <bigcalm> Need tunes to help get me to Scotland tonight! http://open.spotify.com/user/bigcalm/playlist/1uaHyQu6aLNkcK2CFFERTr
[16:48] <screen-x> bigcalm: where are you starting from?
[16:48] <bigcalm> screen-x: Telfordish, it's a 5.5 hour drive
[16:48] <screen-x> ouch
[16:48] <bigcalm> Yeah, I'm going to be tired
[16:48] <bigcalm> We'll stop a couple of times though
[16:48] <screen-x> Hugs at the other end?
[16:49] <mungojerry> if anyone sees me on here next week you have permission to beat me up
[16:49] <bigcalm> screen-x: the bed will be hugging me if that's what you mean?
[16:49] <fourkuchen> Anyone using XChat Gnome?
[16:50] <screen-x> mungojerry: request acknowledged
[16:50] <mungojerry> :)
[16:51] <mungojerry> i tend to binge on it and then starve myself
[16:51] <mungojerry> i'll wean myself off by reading logs
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: what kind of music do you like?
[16:51] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'm open minded
[16:51] <screen-x> mungojerry: if only I could kick you, that would add much to the comedy :p
[16:51] <bigcalm> I'm hoping people will just add stuff to the playlist and then GF and I can pick/choose
[16:51] <bigcalm> :)
[16:52] <mungojerry> bigcalm: can't get in to work under wine :(
[16:52] <mungojerry> the playlist thing
[16:52] <bigcalm> Oh, that sucks
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> grooveshark would work
[16:52] <mungojerry> i think there's some jigger pokery req'd in ffox
[16:52]  * screen-x goes home, have greate weekends everybody
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> that's browser-based
[16:52] <bigcalm> I'll get the spotify url
[16:53] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: using spotify as I have it on my phone
[16:53] <bigcalm> spotify:user:bigcalm:playlist:1uaHyQu6aLNkcK2CFFERTr
[16:54] <bigcalm> Put that into the spotify search
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> nice & memorable ;)
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> the playlist is empty, correc\t?
[16:55] <mungojerry> i can see an empty list
[16:55] <mungojerry> not sure how to add tracks
[16:56] <mungojerry> any type of music preferred?
[16:56] <mungojerry> fave bands?
[16:56] <bigcalm> It's empty atm, yes
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> not anymore
[16:57] <bigcalm> There, added one myself
[16:57] <alexcockell_> Personally - that's why I like We7...
[16:58] <bigcalm> ?
[16:58] <bigcalm> mungojerry: I'm open minded and looking for suggestions. We'll skip things that don't work for us :)
[16:58] <mungojerry> just added a couple
[16:58] <bigcalm> Aha, love to see it updating in real time :)
[16:59] <bigcalm> Thanks
[16:59] <bigcalm> Ah, I was listening to that Yann Tiersen album 2 days ago. Very nice :)
[16:59] <mungojerry> bigcalm: really?
[16:59] <mungojerry> i bought it after 50 x listens on spotify
[17:00] <mungojerry> never found another preson who liked
[17:00] <bigcalm> Goodness
[17:00] <mungojerry> amelie is one of favourite films
[17:00] <bigcalm> My GF has yet to see Amelie. Might take the DVD with us incase we have terrible weather
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> good idea
[17:01] <mungojerry> u will get big hugs and kisses afterwards
[17:01] <bigcalm> Hehe
[17:01] <mungojerry> feelgood film
[17:01] <bigcalm> Very
[17:01] <mungojerry> safe trip btw
[17:01] <bigcalm> Thanks :)
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> 5 hours you said? :)
[17:02] <bigcalm> 5.5 plus stops
[17:03] <bigcalm> It'll be gone midnight before we get to the PremireInn I think
[17:06] <mungojerry> electric 6
[17:06] <mungojerry> ace
[17:06] <mungojerry> ugh should have left already for home
[17:07] <bigcalm> Hehe
[17:11] <bigcalm> Hehe
[17:11] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: good track, don't think my GF will like it though ;)
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: which one? :) I've added tons
[17:12] <bigcalm> The Orbital track
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> ah :)
[17:14] <directhex> http://www.we7.com/#/song/Orbital/Doctor ?
[17:14] <slobex> zdravo
[17:15] <bigcalm> directhex: Halycon and on and on
[17:15] <bigcalm> But that's a good choice!
[17:15] <bigcalm> cy not yc
[17:17] <DJones> Damm, & I'd just worked out that zdravo was slovenian/croatian ish
[17:19] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: tell me when to stop :)
[17:19] <bigcalm> Carry on :)
[17:20] <bigcalm> It'll update even when we're on the road
[17:20] <bigcalm> Wondering if I should tell my phone to make it an offline pl though
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: when are you leaving? :)
[17:44] <brobostigon> thank you MS Windows, you messed up one my brothers hdd's. :(
[17:44] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: 12 mins ago :S
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'm still filling the playlist :)
[17:44] <bigcalm> Hehe, good show ;)
[17:46] <bigcalm> An apache error log gets blanked each day, is there a way to tail the log into a new file that just constantly updates? I have read access on the log file but can't alter the vhost
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> tail -F apache.log :)
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> -F vs -f
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: tail -F error.log > big_error_log
[17:47] <bigcalm> Cheers :)
[17:47] <bigcalm> I can leave that running in a screen over the weekend on the client's server and then poke it on Monday
[17:48] <brobostigon> ubuntu live cd to the rescue,
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: now leave, with the music on random :)
[17:49] <ali1234> hmm i might take kubuntu for a spin
[17:49] <ali1234> maybe it's time to go back to KDE
[17:49] <ali1234> after all it's been over 5 years since i switched to gnome
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> 7-year itch? :)
[17:50] <ali1234> no, i just don't like where gnome3 is going
[17:50] <ali1234> and gtk is dead
[17:51] <ali1234> can't really see why anyone would attempt to write new software with it
[17:52] <ali1234> the main problem i had with KDE was it is an incredibly powerful system with the world's most ugly UI on top of it
[17:52] <ali1234> where as gnome is pretty much the reverse
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: last time I used KDE it felt crashy
[17:52] <ali1234> yeah me too
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> it felt like it could crash any second during use
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> Unity feels the same now
[17:52] <ali1234> but that was like 2005
[17:52] <ali1234> yeah, this is the thing
[17:53] <ali1234> KDE always felt like there was a disconnect between when you click something and when it gets done
[17:53] <ali1234> and like sometimes the message got lost somewhere
[17:56] <ali1234> and the other problem is it has hundreds of different icons and buttons and they all do the same thing
[17:57] <domjohnson> Sorry to spam...but here is a petition on having a no-fly zone in Libya - https://secure.avaaz.org/en/libya_no_fly_zone_1/
[17:58]  * bigcalm buggers off
[18:08] <jgjones> brobostigon, Ubuntu Live CD is just as useful for rescuing OSX
[18:09] <brobostigon> jgjones: i did not know that, :)
[18:10] <jgjones> brobostigon, wife's macbook pro went dead, corrupt file system. she took to Apple Store, they put in OSX disc and into rescue mode. It cannot read file system. Staff said the only possible choice is to reinstall and reformat disk.
[18:10] <brobostigon> jgjones: oh dear, :(
[18:10] <jgjones> brobostigon, lucky she texted me then. told her to bring it home and let me sort it out. Pop in Ubuntu Live CD. It read all files just fine. OSX's rescue mode can't read it and offer to format.
[18:11] <brobostigon> jgjones: good move,yes, :)
[18:11] <jgjones> brobostigon, and nagged her to use Time Machine more often after recovering all files. "Genius" my arse at the store, it's not the ONLY choice :)
[18:12] <brobostigon> i agree, yes.
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> te
[18:26] <Myrtti> meh.
[18:28] <popey> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: moooo
[18:28]  * popey kicks off an rsync to copy ~5TB from one place to another at 50MB/s
[18:29]  * popey expects this to take some time
[18:33] <davmor2> popey: minute or 2 then
[18:51] <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5517464149/
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: awww
[18:53] <cbx333> 50MB
[18:53] <cbx333> is that all
[18:53] <cbx333> :p
[18:57] <popey> sadly yes
[18:57] <popey> from one filer to another over the network
[18:58]  * cbx333 pats his fibre backup :)
[18:58] <cbx333> 140MB/s sometimes :)
[19:00] <ali1234> cool, i just figured out how to make kde look nice
[19:00] <popey> oh this will go up to 300MB
[19:00] <popey> I am rate limiting it
[19:00] <ali1234> you have to tell it to use gtk+ themes and then start gnome-settings-daemon
[19:00] <popey> heh
[19:00] <cbx333> awww
[19:00] <ali1234> and then you get decent looking buttons
[19:00] <cbx333> suck
[19:00] <cbx333> nice one popey
[19:00] <cbx333> you beat me
[19:01] <cbx333> hey ali1234
[19:01] <popey> hah
[19:01] <cbx333> howz it going
[19:01] <popey> not my hardware :)
[19:01] <cbx333> 4GB/s ?
[19:01] <cbx333> Gb/s
[19:01] <ali1234> cbx333: not bad, just looking for a replacement for ubuntu
[19:01] <cbx333> oh
[19:01] <cbx333> any particular reason?
[19:01] <ali1234> unity
[19:01] <cbx333> yah
[19:01] <brobostigon> ali1234: wh not try the gnome3 ppa ?
[19:01] <popey> hahaha
[19:01] <ali1234> because gnome3 is the only thing worse than unity
[19:02] <popey> "If you think Unity is bad, you should see GNOME 3!"
[19:02]  * brobostigon disagres with ali1234 
[19:02] <ali1234> yeah that's pretty much what i tell people all the time
[19:02] <cbx333> really?
[19:02] <cbx333> oh man
[19:02] <cbx333> what are we going to do?
[19:02]  * cbx333 is starting to sniff
[19:02] <ali1234> switch to debian of course
[19:02] <brobostigon> ali1234: it opinion, give people a chance to form their own,
[19:02] <cbx333> ahh
[19:02] <cbx333> of course
[19:02] <cbx333> drawbacks?
[19:03] <ali1234> the only one i found so far is their nvidia driver is 6 months out of date
[19:03] <ali1234> but as long as it works i don't really care
[19:03] <cbx333> but debian won't have my awesomely awesome startupsound :p
[19:03] <cbx333> haha
[19:03]  * cbx333 cringes
[19:03] <brobostigon> cbx333: i have a bit of pink floyd as  mystartup sound,
[19:03] <cbx333> you disabled my sound
[19:03]  * cbx333 runs off crying
[19:04] <ali1234> debian also has the advantage of not using pulseaudio by default, which means sound actually works
[19:04] <cbx333> aye
[19:04] <cbx333> as long as I can compile the latest Git I'm happy - and that I have latex packages :)
[19:04] <brobostigon> anyways, alot of gtk apps will be using gtk3 from here on, so you will need gtk3 ali1234, eventaully.
[19:05] <dutchie> gtk3 != gnome3
[19:05] <ali1234> yeah, see my earlier comments
[19:05] <cbx333> yeh
[19:05] <brobostigon> dutchie: i agree. yes.
[19:05] <ali1234> gtk+ is dead anyway
[19:05] <ali1234> nobody will be writing new apps in gtk+, and the old ones won't get ported to 3
[19:06]  * cbx333 is realising he's been out of open sourcedevving for too long
[19:06] <cbx333> I used to love gtk+
[19:06] <cbx333> should I start loving someone else
[19:06] <cbx333> someone - please form some opinions for me
[19:06] <ali1234> gtk was good back when Qt was still on version 3 and it sucked
[19:06] <brobostigon> ali1234: again, that is a matter of opinion. dont form people's minds for them, let them make  their ownmind up. andlet everyone have their own opinion and a chance to form that,
[19:06] <ali1234> however Qt4 is miles better than gtk in every respect
[19:07] <cbx333> really?
[19:07] <cbx333> interesting
[19:07] <popey> brobostigon: he's not telling people how to think, he's expressing an opinion
[19:07] <ali1234> Qt is s serious contender for development on windows and mac too
[19:07] <cbx333> very interesting
[19:07] <brobostigon> anyways, i dontlike this non'consructive drivel, so i am going to go get a beer.
[19:07] <ali1234> you can't say that about gtk... gtk apps on windows are a joke
[19:08] <popey> yeah, being cross platform is helpful
[19:08] <cbx333> oh hey ali1234, there's bee quite a bit more added to GITT now
[19:08] <brobostigon> popey: it didnt quite seem like that.
[19:08] <popey> brobostigon: disagreeing with you doesnt automatically make it drivel
[19:08] <popey> ali1234: agreed, gimp, tomboy and one other app i use on windows all look quite sucky
[19:08] <brobostigon> popey: i agree, sorry, i am on my edge of my temper.
[19:08] <brobostigon> ali1234: i am sorry,
[19:09] <ali1234> brobostigon: no problem
[19:09] <cbx333> so think debian will work with my new thinkpad when i get it ?
[19:09] <cbx333> :p
[19:09]  * brobostigon shuts up.
[19:09] <ali1234> sure... i'm looking more towards kubuntu at the moment though
[19:09] <popey> wonder how debian runs on mbps
[19:10] <cbx333> i just can't stand kde4
[19:10] <gord> macbook .. something something?
[19:10] <cbx333> :p
[19:10] <popey> pros
[19:10] <ali1234> if i can just figure out how to tame the kde start menu and make the panels look decent
[19:10] <gord> oh plural :)
[19:10] <popey> ya
[19:10] <gord> not mac book per second then
[19:10] <cbx333> heh
[19:10] <cbx333> wish i coiuld afford a macbook
[19:10] <cbx333> but i think a thinkpad edge is going to be all i can muster
[19:11] <ali1234> i have an ideapad with the swivelling screen... pretty neat
[19:11] <ali1234> i will probably use unity on it
[19:11] <ali1234> (it's a touch screen)
[19:21] <cbx333> nice ali1234
[19:21]  * cbx333 has debian 6 on a dvd from linux format
[19:21] <cbx333> maybe I'll try it on an old hdd
[19:21] <cbx333> in some ways I won't miss the constant upgrades
[19:24] <cbx333> hey ali1234 you about?
[19:24] <ali1234> yeah just annoying #kde with dumb questions
[19:24] <cbx333> haha
[19:24] <cbx333> oh - actually nevermind
[19:25] <mungojerry> ali1234: i'd like to see your efforts in making kde look nice
[19:25]  * mungojerry used to be a kde user
[19:30]  * cbx333 too
[19:30] <cbx333> but gnome was nicer
[19:30] <cbx333> _was_
[19:30] <cbx333> i wonder if debian would be faster on my little X41
[19:32] <HazRPG> back
[19:32] <mungojerry> cbx333: worried about unity?
[19:32] <HazRPG> Mmm... good company + good coffee :)
[19:32]  * cbx333 worries about the look of unity
[19:33] <cbx333> i would feel dumb using it
[19:33] <mungojerry> cbx333: i have natty installed, and gnome classic desktop works too
[19:33] <cbx333> yeh?
[19:33] <mungojerry> global menu is v easy to disable too
[19:33] <cbx333> i jsut want my old gnome back :)
[19:33] <mungojerry> it continues working as current gnome does
[19:33] <mungojerry> yes, you can have that
[19:33] <cbx333> but will it continue to
[19:35] <ali1234> that's a given
[19:35] <ali1234> pretty soon nobody will be developing the gnome 2 code base at all
[19:36] <mungojerry> i'm interested in how ubuntu will use qt apps in future
[19:36] <ali1234> which is why i am seeking an alternative
[19:37] <mungojerry> gnome classic is still there for now. and since gnome shell is just a layer on top, surely it will continue (especially as gnome shell is a bit meh)
[19:37] <ali1234> you know what bugs me the most about kde
[19:38] <mungojerry> what's that al
[19:38] <ali1234> they are not capable of calculating the middle of a region
[19:38] <brobostigon> mungojerry: gnome-shell is not a layer ontop of gnome2, it is a toral redesign, and with new stuff, like a new WM, etc.
[19:38] <mungojerry> brobostigon: oh :(
[19:38] <brobostigon> total*
[19:38] <ali1234> anything in KDE that is aligned either vertically or horizontally to the middle of any given region is pretty much guaranteed to be off by just enough pixels to make it look like it was just randomly slapped on the screen
[19:39] <brobostigon> effectivly.*
[19:39] <ali1234> for example, the clock, the tray resize icon, the workspace switcher all exhibit this flaw
[19:39] <mungojerry> ali1234: KDE lost me when amarok etc got rewritten from scratch without loads of features...and the crashy bugs in 4.0-4.5 of course
[19:40] <mungojerry> RHEL is still on kde3.5
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> Let's band together and write a GOOD system :)
[19:40] <mungojerry> RHEL6 is KDE4 though i think
[19:40] <ali1234> amarok is another app that has this problem on almost every part of its UI
[19:40] <mungojerry> amarok in kde4 is a travesty
[19:40] <brobostigon> mungojerry: gnome2 used metacity as its WM. however gnome-shell uses something else. however gnome2* will be a fallback, like unity2d, i gnome-shell cant run.
[19:40] <mungojerry> was previously best music app ever
[19:40] <ali1234> actually, amarok is the example i always use when i want to demonstrate what's wrong with KDE because it shows off pretty much every flaw of the whole thing in one easy to reach place :)
[19:42] <ali1234> i wonder if i can make kde use compiz... and gnome-panel
[19:42] <brobostigon> !info mutter natty
[19:42] <brobostigon> !info clutter natty
[19:42] <mungojerry> ali1234:  or lxde?
[19:42] <ali1234> lxde is rubbish
[19:43] <speedxco1e> Anyone using backing up using s3?
[19:43] <mungojerry> well no point panicking yet since clasic gnome is stil there
[19:43] <mungojerry> u can panic when it dies :)
[19:43] <ali1234> has all the same graphical problems as kde
[19:43] <speedxco1e> I've decided to try S3, I looked at a fuse solution with s3fs, has anyone tried it?
[19:44] <mungojerry> speedxco1e: not me sorry, although i stumbled over another solution called deja dup which handles s3
[19:45] <brobostigon> mungojerry: gnome2 wont die quickly, however gnome3 will evolve, and evetually supersede gnome2.
[19:46] <mungojerry> brobostigon: i don't quite understand the distinction between gnome3 and gnome2 ..i thought gnome3 was just getting rid of crud from gnome2
[19:47] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i like to think of gnome3, as a modernisation, an evolution of gnome2.
[19:47] <davmor2> mungojerry: Nope.  Gnome 3 is a new desktop, new apis, improved GTK etc etc etc it's a huge change from the 2 series in the same way as kde 4 and kde3
[19:47] <mungojerry> can gnome classic DE can be implemented with gnome3?
[19:48] <gord> davmor2, ehhh its not quite like kde4 - gtk isn't much different, there aren't that much different.. gnome 3 is 95% gnome shell
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> gnome hell
[19:49] <ali1234> mungojerry: yeah, just ignore gnome-shell (only make 1 workspace with it) and then just load up gnome-panel like normal
[19:49] <gord> mungojerry, no not really, you are going to be running gnome-2 panel with metacity/compiz with gtk 3 applications
[19:49] <mungojerry> so they could be phased out then
[19:50] <mungojerry> as with kde3 stuffs
[19:51] <mungojerry> too much breakage going on in the DE world :(
[19:51] <davmor2> ali1234: I thought gnome lost the ability to add extra panels in gnome3
[19:51] <ali1234> probably if you use the menus
[19:52] <ali1234> if you run gnome-panel from a terminal it will probably still work
[19:52] <gord> ubuntu 11.04 classic desktop is basically gnome3 without gnome-shell
[19:52] <ali1234> it will be *inside* the workspace though
[19:52] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i am running gnome3-team ppa, here on natty, and have bsiclly zero breakage at all.
[19:53] <mungojerry> brobostigon: sorry, to clarify, by breakage i mean radical change :)
[19:53] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i see, ok.
[19:53] <ali1234> "radical" is a nice way of putting it
[19:55] <mungojerry> at least kde4 is just gaining some stability if people wanna leave DE
[19:55] <ali1234> it's still ugly as hell if you don't use gtk themes though
[19:56] <mungojerry> ali1234: got a screenshot with the gtk theme?
[19:56] <ali1234> um yeah... but it just looks like gnome
[19:56] <ali1234> except with kwin window borders and an ugly panel
[19:56] <ali1234> because the panel uses plasma now
[19:56] <ali1234> and it doesn't respect theme
[19:59] <mungojerry> ali1234: sounds ugly dude
[20:00] <ali1234> http://imagebin.org/142428
[20:03] <cbx333> Myrtti, you about?
[20:03] <mungojerry> ali1234: ah, that's clearer now
[20:03] <ali1234> trying to get rid of all the blue now
[20:03] <cbx333> yuk
[20:03] <cbx333> blue
[20:06] <mungojerry> i'm sure gnome2 will remain in LTS until 12.04 :P
[20:07] <brobostigon> mungojerry: intheory, unity is replacing gnome2 in natty. except as another boot option, and or fallback with unity2d.
[20:07] <brobostigon> rephrase, metacity and gnome-panels. etc,
[20:08] <mungojerry> brobostigon: are you using gnome shell on a daily basis right now?
[20:08] <ali1234> http://imagebin.org/142431
[20:08] <ali1234> getting better
[20:08] <brobostigon> mungojerry: yes, and it working well, i amliking the workspace management.
[20:09] <ali1234> it would look more like ubuntu if it was kubuntu - debian doesn't have human-murrine packaged
[20:09] <mungojerry> ali1234: are u considering switching distro over this?
[20:09] <ali1234> yes
[20:10] <mungojerry> brobostigon: i have shell on my testing box..i added minimise window button though :)
[20:11] <ali1234> ubuntu jumped the shark with "light-themes"
[20:11] <brobostigon> mungojerry: for me, in gnome-shell there isnt anywhere to minimise windows too, in real terms, and a simple  doubleclick, doesmaximise, so iagree with their design decision.
[20:11] <mungojerry> minimise=hide , in my opinion
[20:12] <mungojerry> i understnad what you're saying, but i need to do that
[20:12] <brobostigon> mungojerry: in which case, there isnt adesktop, to have anything on, so no need to minimise to desktop, and if i want to hide my  windows, i lock my screen.
[20:15] <mungojerry> ali1234: why the light themes?
[20:15] <mungojerry> was rather inconsequential to me
[20:16] <mungojerry> still like ubuntu , just a bit uncertain about things
[20:16] <ali1234> because my monitor is my main light source :)
[20:17] <ali1234> also buttons-on-the-left
[20:18] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i like  ubuntu aswell, debian as a whole. however i have always heavily customised things seperatly from the standerd, in various ways, so i amused to having to do that.
[20:18] <brobostigon> am used*
[20:18] <ali1234> i don't like customizing things
[20:19] <mungojerry> back in the kde3.5 days it would take me days to arrive at the best setup
[20:19] <ali1234> the less i have to customize the better
[20:19] <mungojerry> gnome is a walk in the park compared to the effort required in kde ...
[20:19] <ali1234> true
[20:19] <ali1234> i don't think i will be switching to kde
[20:19] <brobostigon> me and kde dont get on,
[20:19] <ali1234> still not possible to make it look decent
[20:19] <mungojerry> tbh gnome2+docky rules
[20:20] <mungojerry> even if unity is poo ( and i hope it isn't), i can still run what i have now
[20:20] <mungojerry> until somebody makes a workaround or fixes unity :P
[20:21] <mungojerry> i already see unity launcher icon size patches etc, so i'm sure more will arrive
[20:21] <ali1234> this is my desktop now: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/panels1.jpg
[20:21] <mungojerry> and the guy who made docky is the unity launcher guy
[20:22] <mungojerry> ali1234: there's always elementary :P
[20:24] <ali1234> i wish you could install gnome and kde side by side without them polluting each other's menus
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> chroot ;)
[20:34] <mungojerry> argh got disconnected
[20:34] <mungojerry> ali1234: i notice on your page you have stuff about the dg834g
[20:35] <ali1234> yeah
[20:35] <mungojerry> can you put ddwrt on it>
[20:35] <ali1234> if you want
[20:35] <mungojerry> i didn't know that
[20:36] <ali1234> might now work, i dunno
[20:36] <ali1234> use openwrt
[20:36] <mungojerry> i switched to the talktalk hauwei modem when something went funny on my dg834 and wireless stopped functioning, possibly hardware
[20:36] <ali1234> it's better
[20:36] <mungojerry> didn't realise at the time that openwrt was possible
[20:37] <ali1234> you'll probably lose wireless support
[20:37] <ali1234> and adsl support
[20:37] <mungojerry> lol
[20:37] <mungojerry> so just an iptables/vpn box then?
[20:38] <mungojerry> my nslu2 does most of that already
[20:38] <ali1234> depends on hardware
[20:39] <mungojerry> ok
[20:40] <mungojerry> huawei router prob runs linux but we'll never now cos they don't seem to release the source under gpl
[20:40] <ali1234> meh
[20:40] <ali1234> you don't need source
[20:40] <ali1234> it probably runs vxworks
[20:40] <brobostigon> mungojerry: in which case they are braking the law.
[20:41] <mungojerry> yes, but they are in china
[20:41] <brobostigon> mungojerry: doesnt matter, thats still braking the law.
[20:41] <ali1234> all you need to do is find another board with same CPU and patch the bootloader
[20:41] <ali1234> breaking
[20:41] <Azelphur> mungojerry: doesn't matter where they are companies all over the world get away with GPL violations :D
[20:42] <Azelphur> Logitech for example isn't chinese and is currently stealing the Linux kernel
[20:42] <Azelphur> nobody goes after them so they get away with it :(
[20:42] <mungojerry> :(
[20:42] <ali1234> busybox too
[20:42] <ali1234> and u-boot
[20:42] <Azelphur> G19 \o/
[20:42] <Azelphur> mungojerry: I know Sony stole from VLC and never got done for it
[20:43] <Azelphur> loads of android phones get released and have the kernel released late/never
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> kernel people should sue more often
[20:43] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope, I like where this is going
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> why?
[20:44] <brobostigon> sky is also using OSS, on their sky+ HD boxes,
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> so you can steal the Linux kernel with impunity?
[20:44] <Azelphur> make everyone depend on FOSS to start off
[20:44] <Azelphur> then when everyone is depending on it, make them release the source legally
[20:44] <Azelphur> puts a lot more pressure on everyone to release the source rather than rewrite
[20:44] <ali1234> wait until everyone is using it, then unleash the most massive torrent of lawsuits ever
[20:45] <Azelphur> ^ exactly
[20:45] <Azelphur> I hope that's the EFF's plan, that'd be hilarious
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> FSF*
[20:45] <Azelphur> derp, indeed
[20:45] <mungojerry> brobostigon: i thought sky was using QNX
[20:46] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i didnt know that, interesting.
[20:46] <penguin42> Azelphur: Sony have a download site for all of the GPL code used on their TVs and products; I know because I looked for the stuff used on the TV we got recently
[20:47] <penguin42> it came with almost no printed documentation (except press that button for onscreen help...) and a copy of the GPL and other licenses
[20:47] <Azelphur> penguin42: and yet they'll still write rootkits utilizing stolen VLC code :D
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> my Philips TV came with an offer + printed GPL
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> I have yet to take them up on the offer
[20:47] <penguin42> (disappointingly the TV takes AGES to boot)
[20:47] <Azelphur> haha
[20:48] <Azelphur> My TV is just a standard TV, I do all the smartness outside the TV in a PC
[20:48] <Azelphur> I use MythTV :D
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you have an old CRT from the '60s?
[20:48] <mungojerry> brobostigon: sorry, it runs XTV
[20:48] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: not any more
[20:48] <Azelphur> http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/MythTV2?h=2832c8
[20:48] <mungojerry> IXI-Connect OS
[20:49] <mungojerry> http://www.nds.com/solutions/xtv.php
[20:49] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: we finally managed to get a new TV, my dad still keeps the old one, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before...
[20:49] <brobostigon> mungojerry: ah, i will look that, up.
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: compulsive hoarding :)
[20:49] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110304_044133.jpg
[20:49] <Azelphur> indeed
[20:49] <mungojerry> brobostigon: i thought they were linux too,
[20:49] <mungojerry> but someone told me otherwise.
[20:50] <rob> (Can anyone suggest which channel I can get help with Mantis and gitweb)
[20:50] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: the silver one on the right is 4 years old, the black one in the back is about 10, the wooden one at the front is older than I am, and the grey one is probably double my age :D
[20:51] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: and this is the dining room haha, if I could get in his office I'd take more pictures, but think 15-21" CRT's stacked to the ceiling
[21:08] <daubers> evening
[22:05] <cbx33> Myrtti, ping
[22:23]  * brobostigon haz chocolate, :)
[22:24]  * AlanBell has wine with bubbles in it
[22:24] <brobostigon> :)
[22:28] <speedxco1e> nån som vet om ubuntu one bygger på amazon s3?
[22:29] <speedxco1e> ops
[22:29] <speedxco1e> sry
[22:29] <speedxco1e> Does anyone know if Ubuntu One storage service is based on amason s3?
[22:29] <popey> i do
[22:30] <popey> Actually I dont, but I know it uses EC2
[22:30] <popey> whether they use S3 or not, I don't know
[22:30] <speedxco1e> ah
[22:30] <popey> how much of Amazon stuff they use, not sure
[22:30] <popey> I have been poking it recently
[22:31] <speedxco1e> popey: thing is I was investigating/comparing prices, and ubuntu one was just slightly more expensive, hence my suspision.
[22:32] <popey> hmm, looking at it, it might actually be an ec2-like instance internal to canonical
[22:32] <popey> using their own private cloud stuff
[22:33] <popey> it looks to me like (for the public file sharing) they proxy all requests
[22:33] <popey> what's behind that I can't tell
[22:34] <speedxco1e> popey: ah ok. I guess someone likes to have some security by obscurity
[22:37] <AlanBell> there is an #ubuntuone channel, they might have more of an idea
[22:55] <cbx33> ahh security by obscurity :)
[23:29] <hamitron> :)
[23:30] <Azelphur> hamitron: have any use for (or know anyone who has any use for) a "new" 500W PSU?
[23:30] <Azelphur> by "new" I mean, "Guy on IRC told me it was the right PSU when it actually wasn't"
[23:31] <hamitron> 500W is plenty for a lot of systems...
[23:31] <Azelphur> indeed
[23:32] <Azelphur> but It's P4 and the system I built it for needs 8 pin
[23:32]  * hamitron is using a 350W in this machine
[23:32] <Azelphur> system I bought it for*
[23:32] <hamitron> ah yeh
[23:32] <hamitron> that is what stopped me considering LGA 1366
[23:32] <hamitron> can you not get an adaptor?
[23:33] <hamitron> whilst not ideal, better than a new PSU
[23:33] <Azelphur> my new "Guy on IRC that tells me how to do things" says adapters arn't really a good idea
[23:33] <hamitron> which is true, but a low power system probably won't be drawing huge currents
[23:34] <Azelphur> it's not low power
[23:34] <hamitron> :/
[23:34] <Azelphur> It's a gaming mobo, quad core CPU, nvidia graphics card, 2 sata hdds
[23:34] <hamitron> how much did it cost you?
[23:34] <Azelphur> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/129422 £19.78
[23:34] <directhex> yikes
[23:34] <directhex> throw it out the window before it blows
[23:34] <Azelphur> haha
[23:35] <Azelphur> directhex: but the reviews are so friendly
[23:35] <directhex> i don't care if it isn't plugged in, with cheap supplies you can't be sure that'll stop them exploding
[23:35]  * hamitron uses cheap psu from ebuyer
[23:35] <Azelphur> :P
[23:35] <hamitron> not ones with gay boy lights though
[23:35] <hamitron> ;/
[23:35] <Azelphur> BLUE LEDS ARE NOT GAY :O
[23:36]  * Azelphur glares at hamitron
[23:36] <hamitron> they so are ;)
[23:36] <Azelphur> *death stare*
[23:36] <hamitron> ok then
[23:36] <popey> ahem
[23:36] <AlanBell> moving on
[23:36] <hamitron> townie boy racer style then
[23:36] <Azelphur> *continued death stare* :P
[23:36] <directhex> here's what happens when you ask a "650W" cheap PSU for 400W http://img.hexus.net/v2/psu/taoyuan_34_2005/images/lol.avi
[23:37] <hamitron> i got an expensive coolermaster psu.... and the case did not fit together in the factory
[23:37] <Azelphur> the counter says 960W o.O
[23:37] <hamitron> to the machine jammed it together, bending the case
[23:37] <directhex> Azelphur, that's the power it's pulling in to supply 400W
[23:37] <hamitron> so*
[23:37] <directhex> Azelphur, shortly before exploding
[23:38] <Azelphur> directhex: oh :P
[23:38] <hamitron> and then a sticker was stuck on the bent part saying it has passed all tests!
[23:38] <Azelphur> haha
[23:38] <hamitron> the mains cable was even stuck out of the side of it
[23:39] <AlanBell> if there is 960 going in, and 400 coming out then there is 560w of unaccounted for energy that can build up and go bang
[23:39] <directhex> AlanBell, bingo
[23:39] <Azelphur> xD
[23:39] <Azelphur> hamitron: take it your not interested in it?
[23:39]  * popey goes bang
[23:39] <directhex> AlanBell, it kept climbing btw, past 960
[23:39] <hamitron> Azelphur, not with blue lights
[23:39] <popey> quietly and sleepily
[23:39] <hamitron> :)
[23:39] <Azelphur> hamitron: you could always pull them out :P
[23:40] <hamitron> my 350W ebuyer psu is fine ty
[23:40] <hamitron> ;)
[23:40] <Azelphur> ok :p
[23:40] <Azelphur> probably put it on fleabay and see what I can get for it lol
[23:40] <hamitron> prob best bet
[23:40] <hamitron> or maybe return to ebuyer?
[23:41] <Azelphur> I don't think ebuyer will take it because it's ootb
[23:41] <hamitron> ootb?
[23:41] <directhex> hamitron, none of your systems are modern enough to put any 12V draw, and it's 12V where bad supplied go to hell
[23:41] <Azelphur> out of the box
[23:41] <hamitron> directhex, how dare you
[23:41] <hamitron> ;/
[23:41] <Azelphur> haha
[23:41] <hamitron> I got a geforce gts 450 now
[23:41] <Azelphur> :O
[23:41] <hamitron> and I had a geforce 7800gtx before
[23:41] <directhex> Azelphur, i personally won't spend less than about 50 quid on a psu. when a cheap one explodes, it takes out the motherboard and cpu.
[23:41] <Azelphur> HAMITRON HAS SOME HARDWARE THAT WAS BUILT THIS DECADE
[23:41] <Azelphur> WHAT IS THIS MADNESS.
[23:42] <hamitron> hehe
[23:42] <hamitron> and 8gb ram
[23:42] <hamitron> ;)
[23:42] <popey> for minecraft
[23:42] <Azelphur> directhex: yea, I got shouted at for buying this one, so lesson learned I guess :D
[23:42] <hamitron> yeh
[23:42] <hamitron> hahah
[23:42] <Azelphur> popey: I play minecraft on my i7 950 @ 3ghz with 12GB DDR3 and GTX 570 :D
[23:42] <hamitron> all games were fine for ram... apart from minecraft
[23:42] <hamitron> new cpu is for other games though :)
[23:43] <popey> there are... other... games!?
[23:43] <hamitron> hehe
[23:43] <Azelphur> directhex: well my plan was to buy a corsair 430W for it, which is £41.
[23:43] <hamitron> F1 2010 and Test Drive Unlimited 2 (see a trend here?)
[23:43]  * AlanBell says pah to Azelphur's puny i7 950
[23:43] <directhex> Azelphur, let me think. which gpu?
[23:43] <Azelphur> directhex: 8800GT
[23:43] <hamitron> i3 > i7
[23:43] <hamitron> ;)
[23:44] <directhex> Azelphur, wait, what? isn't that 4 years old?
[23:44] <hamitron> half the cpu and not much more than half the heat?
[23:44] <Azelphur> directhex: yea, I'm building my old PC parts into a PC and selling it to my cousin
[23:44] <directhex> Azelphur, right, fine, fine. cpu?
[23:44] <Azelphur> directhex: Q6600
[23:44] <hamitron> weak
[23:44] <Azelphur> ur weak :o
[23:44] <hamitron> ;/
[23:44] <speedxco1e> actually I got a q6600
[23:45] <Azelphur> indeed, q6600 ain't weak it's a nice CPU :P
[23:45] <speedxco1e> thing is my overclocked e5300 is as fast as it
[23:45] <speedxco1e> with 2 cores =)
[23:45] <Azelphur> :o
[23:45] <hamitron> btw guys, how I see file extensions in winblows 7?
[23:45] <Azelphur> popey: btw have you seen the map for my minecraft server? it may interest you
[23:45] <hamitron> there is no bar at the top :/
[23:45] <Azelphur> not sure if I showed you it before :x
[23:46] <directhex> Azelphur, well, it'll fit into that
[23:46] <directhex> hamitron, press alt
[23:46] <speedxco1e> still q6600 is a fairly decent cpu for today.. if no gaming or hd video is being done
[23:46] <hamitron> ty :D
[23:46] <Azelphur> directhex: yea that's what I figured, I ran everything through a PSU calc with 100% TDP and it only came to 384W
[23:46] <Azelphur> so 430 should be fine *shrug*
[23:46] <speedxco1e> those 8800 can be hungry
[23:46] <Azelphur> speedxco1e: wat, I was using that machine up until a couple months ago, it was fine for HD video
[23:47] <Azelphur> and gaming too.
[23:47] <directhex> Azelphur, my wife's shuttle has a 3ghz dualcore and an 8800gt, and that's only a 250W psu... close call though
[23:47] <speedxco1e> Azelphur: I hope that 430 is a good brand. and a new psu (no old caps)
[23:47] <Azelphur> directhex: haha :P
[23:47] <Azelphur> yes 430 corsair brand new
[23:47] <directhex> speedxco1e, the 8800gt was well regarded as a low-demand card. it's single slot ffs, few cards these days can do that
[23:47] <hamitron> it is actually amusing looking at some of the psu on the market people get
[23:47] <speedxco1e> directhex: you are correct. I mixed it up with the gts and gtx
[23:47] <hamitron> way over speced
[23:47] <directhex> hamitron, perfectly sensible tbh
[23:48] <Azelphur> hamitron: you'll laugh at the one I got :D
[23:48]  * speedxco1e has a 8800 gtx
[23:48] <Azelphur> for my big box
[23:48] <directhex> hamitron, a single gpu these days can be >300W
[23:48] <directhex> hamitron, and you can do up to quad GPU in some arrangements
[23:48] <hamitron> but I still think a lot of people over estimate what they need ;/
[23:49] <hamitron> for a monster like that, yes
[23:49] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.dabs.com/products/1200-watt-pro-series-ax1200-71HN.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product+search in my main PC :D
[23:49] <directhex> hamitron, cheaper to build in some headroom, e.g. this psu is big enough for me to go crossfire/sli in the future
[23:49] <directhex> Azelphur, with a 16A plug on it?
[23:49] <Azelphur> *shrug*?
[23:49] <Azelphur> this was my first build, I'm not amazingly knowledgeable yet :)
[23:50] <hamitron> this new build here I wanted lowish heat, but some performance, so it was a ballance
[23:50] <hamitron> :)
[23:51] <directhex> oh yes, that's the other detail
[23:51] <directhex> consider PSU efficiency
[23:51] <directhex> they're not equally efficient under all loads
[23:51] <directhex> if you want to use less power, you need peak efficiency
[23:51] <speedxco1e> that ax 1200 is marvellous
[23:51] <speedxco1e> it even handles crappy AC
[23:52] <directhex> if your pc needs 400W, you don't want to be pulling 1000W from the wall to do it!
[23:52] <speedxco1e> no hardcore ups is needed
[23:52] <directhex> so a bigger PSU with "wasted" capacity can be more environmentally friendly & cheaper to run
[23:52] <hamitron> my 650W psu is over speced, but I already had it :/
[23:52] <speedxco1e> AC 90-264 V   <- 1337
[23:52] <hamitron> but dual rail kinda makes it more complex
[23:52] <hamitron> :/
[23:52] <hamitron> or quad
[23:52] <hamitron> :)
[23:53] <hamitron> I better not jump for joy yet, not fully tested
[23:54] <Azelphur> speedxco1e: indeed, it's a nice PSU :D
[23:54] <Azelphur> and as I say, I have multiple graphics cards, 4 HDDs, gonna overclock and water cool soon
[23:54] <directhex> i'd pay for modular
[23:54] <Azelphur> it is modular
[23:54] <directhex> it's lovely not having wasted cables
[23:54] <hamitron> I wish i had gone modular :/
[23:55] <hamitron> but they cost 110 quid at the time
[23:55] <directhex> that's one reason my psus tend to be in the £80 range - they'd be a good £20 cheaper if not modular
[23:55] <hamitron> I could of got a psu and only 2gb ram ;)
[23:56] <directhex> i have 6 gig of ram
[23:56] <directhex> manly men have ram divisible by 3
[23:56] <Azelphur> directhex: 12GB *5
[23:56] <hamitron> directhex, I wanted ITX form
[23:56] <hamitron> ;/
[23:56] <Azelphur> tri channel :3
[23:57] <andylockran> hwody
[23:57] <andylockran> :3
[23:57] <hamitron> I'm happy with dual
[23:57] <hamitron> gone from 400mhz ddr2 to 1333mhz ddr3
[23:57] <hamitron> :)
[23:59] <hamitron> installing f1 2010 to see performance increase