[05:56] <soniku> Good evening! I hear this real-time kernel is pretty nifty. Anybody know anything about it?
[08:28] <jo-erlend> should it be ok to connect two microphones to a single mic input using a splitter?
[08:28] <bc81> hey there.  i'm on Ubuntu 10.10 & trying to get this MIDI input device (http://www.ionaudio.com/discoverkeyboardusb) working with milkytracker.  the keyboard works in other programs (VMPK, Piano Booster etc.) but not milky.  any tips, i've been searching around all day..can't figure this one out
[08:43] <AutoStatic> jo-erlend: If the mic input is stereo then it's no problem if you split it to 2x mono
[08:44] <AutoStatic> bc81: MilkyTracker and MIDI is very, very iffy
[08:45] <AutoStatic> Which version of Milky does 20.20 have?
[08:45] <AutoStatic> 10.10 I mean
[08:55] <bc81> AutoStatic: not sure what it was, i upgraded to the latest with a ppa (MIDI not working in either version)
[08:56] <AutoStatic> Which PPA?
[08:57] <bc81> AutoStatic: i used the one that waslinked from the milkytracker download page: https://launchpad.net/~philip5/+archive/extra
[08:58] <AutoStatic> Ah ok, that shoudl work, I've used that one too for 10.04
[08:58] <AutoStatic> ^^should
[08:58] <AutoStatic> SOme times it works, sometimes it doesn't, not sure why
[08:58] <AutoStatic> That doesn't help you of course
[08:59] <AutoStatic> Your MIDI connections are set up right?
[09:00] <bc81> well, that's just the thing i don't know how to set them up.  to get them working with the other programs i mentioned, i just started fluidsynth in a terminal and everything worked fine
[09:00] <bc81> is there some kind of software i can use to set up MIDI connections?
[09:03] <AutoStatic> aconnectgui
[09:04] <AutoStatic> Or if you use JACK, QjackCtl and then the ALSA tab of the Connections window
[09:15] <bc81> AutoStatic: ok, got the JACK running..in the ALSA tab of connections..now what?  there's a "MIDI through" and "ION Laptop Piano" in each column, i tried running VMPK but now it's not working where earlier it was with fluidsynth in a terminal
[09:16] <bc81> this is so convoluted
[09:17] <AutoStatic> He he, it's not comvoluted, it's modular ;)
[09:17] <AutoStatic> ^^convoluted
[09:18] <AutoStatic> You want to use FluidSynth with your MIDI keyboard?
[09:19] <AutoStatic> Or MilkyTracker?
[09:19] <AutoStatic> And did you try aconnectgui? I ask this because MilkyTracker does support JACK but only after some tweaking.
[09:20] <bc81> ok, i;ll try aconnectgui again..i want to use midi keybord with milkytracker
[09:23] <bc81> haha got it! thanks man..whew that only took all day
[09:23] <AutoStatic> The MilkyTracker MIDI connection is called RtMidi Input Client btw
[09:23] <AutoStatic> Ah cool!
[09:24] <bc81> yea, it wan't all connected i just had to go out from piano into midi through port-0
[09:24] <bc81> that was the missing step
[09:25] <bc81> my next question, any way to start these different software and have them automatically make the proper connections in aconnectgui?
[09:26] <AutoStatic> You could use a little script
[09:26] <AutoStatic> There are session managers, but they only work with JACK
[09:26] <AutoStatic> And JACK and MilkyTracker needs some fiddling
[09:30] <AutoStatic> Something like this:
[09:31] <AutoStatic> #!/bin/bash
[09:31] <AutoStatic> milkytracker &
[09:31] <AutoStatic> vmpk &
[09:31] <AutoStatic> sleep 2
[09:31] <AutoStatic> aconnect VMPK RtMidi
[09:31] <AutoStatic> That starts MilkyTracker and VMPK, then waits 2 seconds so those apps can start and then it connects the VMPK output with the MilkyTracker MIDI input
[09:35] <bc81> AutoStatic: that's brilliant, thanks.  just what i needed to get started in this stuff.  only problem i'm having with that is VMPK only makes sound when fluidsynth is started, i'm going to try adding a line in that script.  see i don't know what is and isn't compatible, there's so much to learn
[09:36] <bc81> no, when i do that still no sound in VMPK, and input not recognized in milky
[09:37] <bc81> maybe its the command used to start fluidsynth: fluidsynth -g 2 -C 0 -R 0 -r 22050 -c 6 -z 128 -l -a alsa -o audio.alsa.device=plughw:0 -o midi.alsa_seq.id=fs /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GS.sf2
[09:37] <AutoStatic> VMPK is a virtual MIDI keyboard, it doesn't make any sound by itself
[09:37] <AutoStatic> I've never used fluidsynth from the command line so I'm not sure
[09:38] <bc81> there's a GUI?
[09:38] <AutoStatic> Try Qsynth
[09:38] <bc81> ok
[09:38] <AutoStatic> Or jack-dssi-host fluidsynth.so
[09:38] <AutoStatic> from the command line
[09:39] <AutoStatic> Both apps need JACK to run though
[09:39] <AutoStatic> Ah, no, Qsynth can also run with just ALSA
[09:40] <AutoStatic> qsynth -a alsa
[09:41] <AutoStatic> Oops, I meant jack-dssi-host fluidsynth-dssi.so if you want to use the FluidSynth DSSI plug-in as stand-alone app.
[09:46] <bc81> AutoStatic: i get errors for that command (after installing the package dssi-host-jack) http://pastebin.com/28UvtmQp
[09:49] <AutoStatic> sudo apt-get install fluidsynth-dssi
[09:53] <bc81> there's loads of static after loading soundfonts: /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 & FluidR3_GS.sf2
[09:54] <bc81> sigh, it's ok i'll just stick to running one thing at a time (either fluidsynth+Piano Booster, or aconnect+milky)
[09:55] <AutoStatic> static is probably a sample rate issue
[09:57] <bc81> well, i'll try to sort that out later, i can't thank you enough for all your help
[09:57] <AutoStatic> NP
[12:24] <Daviey> Hello!
[12:24] <Daviey> Would it make you sad if jack lost firewire support?
[12:25] <Daviey> (for natty)
[12:26] <AutoStatic> Why would JACK loose FireWire support for Natty?
[13:04] <Daviey> AutoStatic, sorry, missed this - not being hilighted.
[13:05] <Daviey> We are looking to demote libffado from main, jack - being on main, can't depend on it.
[13:11] <AutoStatic> Daviey: so libffado will move to universe?
[13:12] <Daviey> AutoStatic, that is the plan
[13:12] <Daviey> or, the desired thing :)
[13:12] <AutoStatic> Daviey: iirc actually the jackd-firewire package does the 'bridging'
[13:13] <AutoStatic> Daviey: So if that would move to universe I don't see much issues
[13:14] <AutoStatic> Daviey: but is part of the JACK package
[13:15] <AutoStatic> So you'll have to split up that package
[13:18] <Daviey> it's an issue for, bug 730759 & bug 730760 :/
[13:18] <Daviey> AutoStatic, Can someone from the dev team come to the release meeting?
[13:20] <AutoStatic> No idea, you might ask on #ubuntustudio-devel
[13:20] <AutoStatic> I'm not a part of the dev team
[13:21] <Daviey> ah
[13:21] <Daviey> AutoStatic, thanks for your help
[13:21] <AutoStatic> NP
[13:52] <holstein> jo-erlend: i would not
[13:52] <holstein> connect 2 mic's with a spliter
[13:52] <holstein> you can split a signal alright with a splitter
[13:52] <holstein> but not join
[13:53] <holstein> jo-erlend: NM
[13:53] <holstein> i see you and AutoStatic discussed it already :)
[13:54] <AutoStatic> Most Mic inputs are stereo afaik
[13:54] <AutoStatic> So if you use a 2x mono splitter it should work
[13:54] <holstein> AutoStatic: yeah, depends on the hardware
[13:55] <holstein> AutoStatic: WTF is up with that firewire thing?
[13:55] <holstein> Daviey: i think it would suck
[13:55] <holstein> who needs to go where?
[13:55] <holstein> to help make that not happen?
[13:55] <Daviey> holstein, discussion in -devel
[15:42] <jo-erlend> holstein, AutoStatic: damn. I was hoping I could use a headset and my guitar at the same time without getting a new soundcard.
[15:43] <holstein> hmm
[15:43] <holstein> i dont think so
[15:43] <holstein> you wont want to plug your guitar right into a sound card anyways
[15:50] <holstein> jo-erlend: check out
[15:50] <holstein> http://tascam.com/product/us-100/
[15:50] <holstein> or something like a http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UCA202.aspx
[15:51] <holstein> with a mixer like http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/502.aspx
[15:52] <holstein> you should be able to get both those for around $70 US
[15:53] <jo-erlend> yes, I should invest in something like that.
[15:56] <jo-erlend> I do tend to penalize companies for making statements such as these: «TASCAM’s US-200 is a 2-in/4-out USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface for Mac and Windows computers, housed in a lightweight, portable chassis.»
[15:58] <holstein> you mean the mac and windows part?
[15:58] <jo-erlend> yes.
[15:58] <holstein> well, RME supports linux
[15:58] <holstein> but, even the 'starter kit' basic is probably a grand or so
[15:58] <holstein> im assuming thats overkill for your needs
[15:59] <jo-erlend> I actually bought a webcam I seriously had no need for when I saw Creative: «Works with Linux». I do the opposite when the companies do the opposite.
[15:59] <jo-erlend> a grand of NOKs are ok. I suppose that's not what you meant? :)
[15:59] <holstein> NOK ?
[16:00] <jo-erlend> Norwegian Crowns.
[16:00] <holstein> the audio folks have to be careful
[16:00] <holstein> they get money from who knows where
[16:01] <jo-erlend> heh... And now people have decided that all wireless audio equipment has to be replaced, I read somewhere.
[16:01] <holstein> the devices i suggested though work well
[16:01] <holstein> out of the box
[16:02] <jo-erlend> sure, but they're advertising either incompetence or an agenda against Linux. Neither works well as an incentive to buy.
[16:02] <holstein> well, the internal card you are using had no linux endorsements either
[16:03] <jo-erlend> actually, it did.
[16:03] <holstein> but, i always suggest emailing the companies
[16:03] <jo-erlend> well, the motherboard did.
[16:03] <holstein> jo-erlend: right on
[16:03] <holstein> i share those convictions
[16:03] <holstein> BUT, i also need professional equipment
[16:03] <holstein> for what i do
[16:03] <holstein> so, i walk the line
[16:04] <jo-erlend> but they don't have to brag about linux support, as long as they don't say that it's "designed for Windows and Mac".
[16:06] <jo-erlend> I'm just an artist. I can live without "professional equipment". I can make better recordings with my N900 than some of my biggest heroes could in studios. :)
[16:06] <holstein> hmmm
[16:07] <holstein> id like to hear that
[16:07] <holstein> i would personally like to see some 'built for linux' firewire interfaces
[16:07] <jo-erlend> you're in luck then. As a test, I uploaded a few videos onto youtube. Let me find them.
[16:09] <jo-erlend> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs9yojlmR8c
[16:10] <jo-erlend> it wasn't really meant for distribution. :)
[16:10] <holstein> cool
[16:10] <holstein> nice playing
[16:10] <holstein> when you turn it on
[16:10] <holstein> and you hear that level of noise?
[16:10] <holstein> kinda like wind
[16:10] <holstein> that is about as loud as the guitar
[16:11] <holstein> thats what nice gear helps with
[16:12] <holstein> nice preamps
[16:12] <jo-erlend> sure. But I'm not that interested in perfect audio.
[16:12] <jo-erlend> thanks btw :)
[16:12] <holstein> where you can get low noise to signal ratio
[16:12] <holstein> well, its not an issue of perfect
[16:12] <jo-erlend> I usually just remove the noise in audacity :)
[16:12] <holstein> right
[16:12] <holstein> you are notching out some high end
[16:12] <holstein> from the source too
[16:12] <holstein> the guitar or vocal
[16:13] <holstein> you cant fix it 100% in post
[16:13] <jo-erlend> I didn't really understand that
[16:13] <holstein> when you 'remove the noise' in audacity
[16:13] <holstein> that effects the rest of the audio as well
[16:13] <holstein> even if you dont use the EQ much
[16:13] <jo-erlend> I made a little recording a little while ago. You can listen if you like. I think the result was quite nice, even though there was a lot of noise to begin with.
[16:13] <holstein> and use some really nice commercial noise removal
[16:14] <holstein> ideally, you track it without the hiss
[16:14] <holstein> jo-erlend: sure, link it up :)
[16:14] <jo-erlend> sure, if I can get some nice equipment without feeling like a second class citizen because of my choice of OS, I'm all for it.
[16:15] <holstein> eh, its all buisness
[16:15] <holstein> some of them support linux
[16:15] <holstein> motu is not cool
[16:15] <holstein> maudio has great support
[16:15] <holstein> *usually
[16:16] <holstein> i mean, the same thing could be said about gaming
[16:16] <holstein> intel is by far the most linux friendly
[16:16] <holstein> but, if you want to game, you need ati or nvidia
[16:16] <jo-erlend> I do say the same thing about gaming.
[16:16] <holstein> and who knows when they will say 'supports linux' on the box
[16:17] <holstein> im not saying it makes it right
[16:17] <holstein> im just saying, you need those tools for gamin
[16:17] <holstein> g
[16:20] <jo-erlend> I would rather purchase two soundboards from Creative with a Tux-label than a single device with two inputs.
[16:21] <holstein> and i understand why
[16:21] <holstein> BUT
[16:21] <jo-erlend> ... that doesn't, I mean.
[16:21] <holstein> creative does not make proper equipment
[16:21] <holstein> for plugging your guitar into your computer
[16:21] <holstein> they make consumer audio gear
[16:21] <holstein> which is fine
[16:22] <holstein> and you can route a mixer into it, and get the job done
[16:23] <jo-erlend> right. And I won't have to be a hipocrite.
[16:23] <holstein> well, about linux support at least
[16:24] <jo-erlend> hehe, what's that supposed to mean?
[16:24] <holstein> if you were in a room full of linux users
[16:24] <holstein> youd be fine
[16:24] <holstein> in a room full of recording engineers.. im not so sure ;)
[16:25] <jo-erlend> whenever I'm in a room with other people, I'm in a room with Linux users, whether they know it or not :)
[16:25] <holstein> hehe
[16:25] <holstein> you'd be fine with that behringer mixer i linked
[16:26] <holstein> routed to your sound card
[16:26] <holstein> BUT that doesnt change anyones buisness practices are berhinger
[16:27] <jo-erlend> music is a major part of my freedom. I object verbosely and loudly to the idea that I should give up freedom in order to play music. I'd rather not record.
[16:27] <holstein> yeah, but using the proper tool for the job doesnt violate your freedom
[16:28] <holstein> just because maudio doesnt have a picture of a penguin
[16:28] <holstein> doesnt mean they are volitile
[16:28] <holstein> AND, that picture of a penguin on creative gear
[16:28] <holstein> is a buisness decision
[16:28] <holstein> and i appreciate it
[16:28] <holstein> BUT, our freedoms are not on the radar
[16:29] <jo-erlend> then I certainly won't lend them my monetary strength.
[16:29] <holstein> because of the penguin sticker?
[16:29] <holstein> what does that sticker indicate?
[16:29] <holstein> does it say 'we write linux drivers' ?
[16:30] <jo-erlend> no, as I said, they don't have to brag about linux support, as long as they don't brag about win and osx support either.
[16:30] <holstein> does it say 'the chipsets we use are supported by the linux kernel' ?
[16:30] <holstein> what does it actually indicate?
[16:30] <holstein> i mean, i assume it indicates 'if you are a linux user, buy this'
[16:30] <jo-erlend> that they don't assume that everyone uses Windows or OS X
[16:31] <holstein> well, they assume that money can be made by providing a statement
[16:31] <jo-erlend> and I support that idea.
[16:31] <holstein> right, me too
[16:31] <holstein> but, it doesnt mean anything really
[16:32] <holstein> unless they are releasing infomation
[16:32] <holstein> so drivers can be writtne
[16:32] <holstein> so drivers can be written
[16:32] <jo-erlend> ...but you support them even if they say that you have to switch to Windows or OS X in order to use the equipment?
[16:32] <holstein> and maudio does that
[16:32] <holstein> they dont have a sticker
[16:32] <holstein> jo-erlend: theres not a sticker that says that
[16:32] <holstein> switch to win or OSX
[16:33] <holstein> thats a suggested supported operating system statement
[16:33] <holstein> for the masses
[16:33] <jo-erlend> holstein: it says it supports Windows and OS X. It doesn't mention anything else. I don't buy that. I also don't buy headsets that are designed for Skype.
[16:33] <holstein> right
[16:33] <holstein> and i agree so an extent
[16:33] <holstein> its just that some companies DO release infomation
[16:33] <holstein> such as broadcom
[16:33] <holstein> recently
[16:34] <holstein> and thats all we need
[16:34] <holstein> we dont need to be hard-ons about a sticker on the box
[16:34] <holstein> in my opinion
[16:34] <holstein> and, it really hits me where i work when it comes to choosing audio geat
[16:34] <holstein> gear*
[16:34] <jo-erlend> sure, if they said "We support Windows, OS X and others*", then that'd be something else. They don't say that. They say: use windows or os x.
[16:35] <holstein> yeah?
[16:35] <holstein> i dont read 'use'
[16:35] <holstein> i read 'supported'
[16:35] <holstein> and again, thats marketing
[16:35] <holstein> its a buisness after all
[16:36] <holstein> i mean, get what you want
[16:36] <jo-erlend> ok, I'm an atheist, but let's pretend I was a muslim. Then I read on some food: "designed for Atheists, Jews and Christians". Would I buy that food?
[16:36] <holstein> im not trying to step on any freedoms
[16:36] <holstein> im just saying
[16:36] <holstein> a sticker on a box is marketing
[16:36] <holstein> even the penguin
[16:36] <holstein> some comapanies release info
[16:36] <holstein> and some dont
[16:37] <jo-erlend> your returnkey is going to get worn out before its time. :)
[16:37] <holstein> jo-erlend: and you'd probably would buy that food, if the alternatives didnt work for you
[16:39] <jo-erlend> the point is that they're promoting platforms I don't use, implicitly saying that their products aren't for me. Even if I know that it works, I won't buy it.
[16:39] <holstein> right
[16:39] <holstein> and im saying when its luctrative to promote those platforms, they will
[16:39] <jo-erlend> and I won't help make such stupidity even more lucrative.
[16:40] <holstein> and i think you are avoiding some hardware from manufacturers that *do* support freedom
[16:40] <holstein> and release information freely
[16:40] <jo-erlend> if they don't say so, they don't support it.
[16:41] <holstein> on the box?
[16:41] <holstein> nothing with that new broadcom chip says linux supported
[16:41] <holstein> AFAIK
[16:41] <jo-erlend> if they say that their equipment works on Windows, OS X and nothing else, then yes, they don't support Linux, even if their equipment is usable on that platform.
[16:41] <holstein> and that the most recent mainstream company i know of t decide to do that
[16:42] <holstein> i think its different with audio
[16:42] <holstein> when OSX really rules the market
[16:42] <holstein> and as a company you would want that to be the marketing angle probably
[16:42] <jo-erlend> it does? I know some musicians, and none of them uses OS X.
[16:43] <holstein> yeah?
[16:43] <holstein> its been the industry standard for years now
[16:43] <holstein> OSX - protools
[16:43] <jo-erlend> the problem is that Windows is the big platform and OS X is for creative people, while Linux is for geeks. Well. Geeks are creative and truly creative people appreciate their freedom. Some of the old misconceptions have to die.
[16:44] <holstein> and i agree to an extent
[16:44] <holstein> its just that i see the problem differently
[16:44] <holstein> microsoft and apple are companies
[16:44] <holstein> linux is you and me
[16:45] <holstein> and anyone else
[16:45] <holstein> there is no 'linux'
[16:45] <holstein> geeks or no
[16:45] <jo-erlend> "software designed for white people. Sure, it works for blacks too, we just don't encourage it, because there isn't enough money in it."
[16:45] <holstein> ^^ thats not the point either
[16:45] <jo-erlend> seems to be from where I'm standing.
[16:46] <holstein> i just urge you to look deeper than what stickers are on the box
[16:47] <holstein> we need information about devices released
[16:47] <holstein> they can write whatever they need to on the box
[16:47] <holstein> whatever sells it
[16:47] <jo-erlend> would a "works with linux"-sticker have any adverse effects on the purchase of windows and osx users?
[16:48] <holstein> i think the companies are just realizing having a campaign like that would actually help
[16:48] <holstein> jo-erlend: maybe
[16:48] <holstein> it would cost more though
[16:48] <holstein> printing them up
[16:48] <holstein> and paying someone to stick them on
[16:48] <holstein> OR changing the current boxes
[16:49] <jo-erlend> well, as long as they keep their "white people are more valuable"-politics, I won't support them
[16:49] <holstein> right
[16:49] <holstein> i hear you
[16:49] <holstein> however
[16:49] <holstein> maudio releases information
[16:49] <holstein> freely
[16:49]  * jo-erlend is really white, mind you. Blue eyes and all.
[16:49] <holstein> and creative gear sucks
[16:50] <jo-erlend> compared to what?
[16:50] <holstein> anything
[16:50] <holstein> really ;)
[16:50] <jo-erlend> like a sixties home studio?
[16:50] <holstein> anything with an XLR in
[16:50] <jo-erlend> I don't even know what that is. :)
[16:50] <holstein> right
[16:50] <holstein> i do , and i need them
[16:51] <holstein> and i support companies that support linux too
[16:51] <holstein> i just look a little further than stickers on the box
[16:52] <holstein> i appologize if im on a vendetta
[16:52] <holstein> im actually on a whole other vendetta
[16:52] <holstein> im just waiting on my time to talk about it ;)
[16:52] <jo-erlend> ok, so the race-example doesn't really work anymore. A more realistic example would be the US' "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy.
[16:55] <jo-erlend> well.. Perhaps I'm exaggerating somewhat. But I hate it when I have to feel bad about buying stuff I really want. And I would be actively paying for the Windows and OSX stickers. That just rubs me the wrong way.
[17:00] <jo-erlend> bbl
[17:00] <jo-erlend> no more power in my battery. :)
[19:25] <esox> hello, I would like to know how to connect a plugin to a specific output of jack-rack
[19:37] <holstein> hey esox
[19:37] <holstein> you can try asking in #opensourcemusicians
[19:38] <holstein> but i remember when i was messing with jack-rack
[19:38] <holstein> you just load up whatever plugin
[19:38] <holstein> and do the routing as usual in 'connections' over in JACK :)
[19:46] <esox> holstein: thanx. But why can one increase the number of output ?
[19:46] <holstein> esox: like mono to stereo?
[19:46] <holstein> i thought that was in the setup
[19:46] <holstein> but i really havent used it enough to say
[19:47] <holstein> i usually do sparse plugins in ardour
[19:47] <holstein> OR rakarrack live
[19:48] <holstein> esox: what are you trying to accomplish?
[19:50] <esox> holstein: I want to charge lets say 3 plugins (reverb, chorus and delay) and I want to be able to conect lets say the rythmbox to the delay, tracks of ardour to reverb+chorus, and then conect the signal out of the delay to input of ardour
[19:50] <esox> as an exemple
[19:50] <holstein> yeah, you should just be able to add them
[19:51] <holstein> in jack-rack
[19:51] <holstein> whatever ones you want
[19:51] <holstein> and do the routing over in 'connections'
[19:51] <holstein> IF you cant find a stereo plugin you want
[19:51] <holstein> you can use 2 instances of a plugin
[19:51] <holstein> and route the right and left channels seperately
[19:52] <holstein> esox: gotta run though... BBL
[19:53] <esox> holstein: BBL ?
[22:48] <jimsve> I have a problem with Wine on a fresh install of ubuntustudio 10.10. I have a program that takes a very long time to start. Before I used normal Ubuntu 10.04 and it worked fine. I have installed ubuntu 10.10 and ubuntustudio 10.10 i two idential virtualbox machines. I see the same problem: normal ubuntu find, ubuntustudio not fine. Any idea what the problem could be?
[22:50] <jimsve> The kernel of both ubuntus seems to be the same, 2.6.35-22-generic #33-Ubuntu SMP ... x86_64