[00:00] <vivid> libreoffice is practically the same, just includes changes that OO wont admit
[00:01] <BUGabundo> really ?
[00:02] <BUGabundo> I though we were already using forked OOo with SUN/Orcale logos for a long long time
[00:02] <BUGabundo> we and many other linux distros
[00:05] <penguin42> what with OOo, Gooo and libreoffice I'm thoroughly confused as to what is in what
[00:06] <penguin42> still, I think I currently give loo the best chance
[00:06] <jbicha> go-ooo doesn't exist any more, it has joined LO
[00:08] <BUGabundo> gooo that's it
[00:08] <jbicha> and I believe LO has better MS format support than OOo
[00:08] <vivid> it just has some stuff that oracle wouldnt accept upstream for some reason, same thing practically, supposed to be "more optimised" clearly oracle doesnt agree
[00:09] <vivid> better doesnt matter, if its not perfect its not good enough
[00:09] <vivid> i cant use OOo or libre for school, because teachers and colleagues open the documents with word and find many formatting errors
[00:10] <penguin42> yeh, typically it's been better at opening them rather than producing them
[00:10] <vivid> yep, but its still not an acceptable replacement for production or academic environments where anyone is using word
[00:13] <BUGabundo> nor is MSFT products
[00:13] <BUGabundo> use latex :P
[00:13] <penguin42> vivid: I'm hoping the LO guys will get a bit better at it
[00:14] <vivid> MS will just break it intentionally
[00:14] <vivid> its a losing battle
[00:15] <penguin42> yeh
[00:16] <vivid> after all, how can they make money if you dont need to buy their suite?
[00:18] <BUGabundo> more importantly
[00:18] <BUGabundo> who still needs a offline suit?
[00:18] <BUGabundo> I use online tools this days
[00:19] <vivid> we use google docs for collaboration, but it still needs to be finalized with word, sad but true : /
[00:19] <BUGabundo> lol
[00:50] <ubuntu_> hi
[00:50] <ubuntu_> when I try to install I get this error: ubi-partman failed with exit code 141. Further information may be found in /var/log/syslog. Do you want to try running this step again before continuing? If you do not, your installation may fail entirely or may be broken.
[00:51] <penguin42> so what does /var/log/syslog have to say?
[00:54] <ubuntu_> penguin42: http://pastebin.com/J56GS2zg
[00:57] <penguin42> no errors I'm familiar with in there
[00:58] <ubuntu_> penguin42: is there a workaround so I can install?
[00:59] <penguin42> ubuntu_: I don't know
[00:59] <ubuntu_> penguin42: no problem thanks any way
[01:38] <jbicha> is there anything unusual about how you're trying to install?
[01:48] <Breetai> Hi all. Installed Alpha 3, and updated, and installed nvidia-current. WHen I sign into gnome-unity, my desktop does not start up and eventually I get a compiz has crahsed error. However if I ctrl-alt-f2, login, and compiz--replace & unity &  it starts up fine. Can I reslove this so unity starts fine?
[01:50] <nit-wit> Breetai, have you rebooted to see if it happens the same?
[01:51] <nit-wit> or restart x
[01:53] <Breetai> Yes. Several times, did another apt-get update/upgrade. Every time I log into unity I have the problem.
[02:42] <Guest17880> is anybody available here
[02:46] <yofel> Guest17880: depends on your question
[02:46] <Guest17880> are you gonna upgrad?
[02:47] <bazhang> Guest17880, this is for support. try #ubuntu-offtopic for chit chat
[02:47] <yofel> well, I'm running natty, kubuntu that is. If you want to know if natty is stable enough to use it, now
[02:47] <yofel> *no
[02:49] <Guest17880> is it true that it will no longer support gnome
[02:50] <bazhang> no
[04:06] <syn-ack> Hey guys have a question
[04:07] <bazhang> then ask
[04:08] <syn-ack> I have a bug and I don't know how to file it. Whether it's unity, chromium or what. But anyway, what happens is that when I start Chromium, it will open fullscreen, but the full screen isn't full screen; it's about, I don't know half an inch from the top of the panel. Anyone else having this issue with any apps and think they know the root cause, wanna give me pointers?
[04:09] <syn-ack> I really can't find a bug title in any of the bug queries I've been doing and it's been rather annoying since I don't want to mismark the bug
[04:10] <syn-ack> I really can't imagine that I'm the only one that this is happening to. and if you would like a screencap, I can post one for a further demonstration of what's going on
[04:10] <bazhang> yep
[04:12] <syn-ack> yep to what? you know what's going on or you would like a screencap or what?
[04:14] <syn-ack> http://tinypic.com/r/33wnrdv/7 There's the pic, btw
[04:15] <bazhang> I have the same issue in 10.10 as well
[04:15] <bazhang> chromium-browser
[04:15] <syn-ack> hrm
[04:16] <syn-ack> you using the dailies as well?
[04:16] <bazhang> nope, just installed alpha one and kept up to date
[04:19] <syn-ack> I meant with Chromium... are you using the Daily PPA or the Official out of the repo?
[04:19] <bazhang> just the one from repos
[04:19] <syn-ack> hrm
[04:19] <bazhang> both 10.10 and natty have the issue here
[04:19] <syn-ack> So it seems to be a common issue among them... Interesting
[04:19] <bazhang> as in your screencap
[04:20] <syn-ack> all your elements are shifted down, as well, no?
[06:27] <Vituz> probably not the right place to come for help regarding this.. but recently upgraded to Natty and somehow broke Vuze... I've tried replacing libswt-gtk-3.5-java already to no avail
[06:28] <RJ_F1> hey, how Do I get the beta for 11.04 ?
[06:29] <durando> does natty fix issues with marvell controllers?
[06:29] <Vitux> probably not a Natty issue.. probably related to java but considering my other java apps still work I'm not sure what else could be causing it
[06:33] <Vitux> guess either no one is here or no one knows
[06:33] <Vitux> pity
[06:37] <RJ_F1> yo, have you tried reinstalling java?
[06:38] <Vitux> yah I have
[06:38] <Vitux> I just fixed it.. gave up on the vuze in the repositories and installed manually
[06:38] <Vitux> working fine
[06:39] <Vitux> not sure if the repositories ver is mucked up but I'm gonna go with this for now.. it'll stay more up to date anyway
[06:51] <RJ_F1> you could try installing eclipse via sudo apt-get install eclipse , which should install all the new java versions, or at least the one that works.
[06:51] <RJ_F1> if that doesnt work
[06:52] <RJ_F1> Hey guys, I gotta go
[08:40] <MasterU> Just did update and got some great new features (resize launcher etc)
[08:40] <MasterU> Has anyone else had blank application dashboard?
[08:41] <MasterU> if you start to type it finds stuff but start off a blank black square
[08:42] <MasterU> Oh well I will log a bug
[09:01] <Severian> I am all updated and I can't resize the Launcher.
[11:06] <Emanon> Any plans to make the alternate install disk actually work this release?
[11:07] <bazhang> it worked for 10.10
[11:07] <Emanon> Not for me.
[11:07] <bazhang> corrupt iso then
[11:07] <Emanon> Tried it on several different discs, usb drives, at different write speeds with different burners and such.
[11:08] <Emanon> Downloaded at different times with different boxes and everything.
[11:08] <bazhang> yes, natty alternate install will work. 10.10 did as well
[11:08] <Emanon> Recently it likes stopping just after the core system finishes while it's installing the userspace stuff.
[11:09] <bazhang> yep corrupt iso
[11:09] <Emanon> Hmm weird. Haven't had one work since 10.04
[11:09] <bazhang> md5 the iso then
[11:10] <rork> does the livecd install work? or could it be hardware issues?
[11:11] <bazhang> rork, worked here
[11:11] <Emanon> Live cd works fine.
[11:12] <Emanon> Would just use that one but I use full disk encryption and whatnot.
[11:12] <bazhang> tried both live and debian-installer both worked fine
[11:12] <Emanon> And depending on the machine, sometimes raid.
[11:13] <rork> I haven't had problems with the alternate install (kubuntu) either, I did have problems with an old Debian install due to ACPI not being supported on my laptop from 2001
[11:14] <bazhang> sorry, the alternate is known as debian-installer
[11:14] <Emanon> Ahh see I haven't had hardware issues for years now. I have either so generic hardware or hardware from companies that play nice so...
[11:15] <Emanon> The only thing on this machine I foresee trouble with is the ati graphics card.
[11:16] <Emanon> Wifi works after I let it install the prop drivers and everything, which I love since when I started linux I thought I was up for slackware and that just wasn't working for me lol.
[11:17] <Emanon> All my internals are pretty standard and my peripherals are almost all logitech, which play nicely with the penguin.
[12:29] <coz_> hey all
[12:30] <penguin42> Hey coz_
[12:30] <coz_> penguin42, hey guy
[12:40] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:03] <storrgie> how do I get unity to collapse when I open a program (say firefox)
[13:07] <storrgie> to me it seems like unity arbitrarily minimizes
[13:07] <storrgie> I cant figure out why it does it why it doesnt
[13:07] <storrgie> and i would prefer it minimize when i open a software full screen
[13:07] <storrgie> such as firefox
[13:43] <tzaeru> quick question; is it to be expected that at boot time the window manager isn't switched to automatically?
[14:08] <penguin42> storrgie: If you open ccsm (compiz config manager) you can select a few different options on compiz; I have it on autohide, but it doesn't quite work for me
[14:08] <storrgie> penguin42, thats annoying
[14:08] <penguin42> storrgie: Very
[14:09] <storrgie> penguin42, it was doing it a couple nights ago (i know I'm using an alpha so things are changing)
[14:09] <storrgie> hopefully it gets worked out before the release
[14:09] <storrgie> im using it on a CF-19
[14:09] <storrgie> very small screen
[14:09] <penguin42> it's certainly getting better - it's a LOT better than it was a month ago, but I think it's got a way to go
[14:33] <BluesKaj> hmm, X froze while trying to resize a window , input devices , mouse &KB totally unresponsive,...still a few glitches , not sure whether it's kde or X .
[15:08] <sveint> I haven't received any updates the last 5 days...is that normal?
[15:08] <Daekdroom> Nope.
[15:08] <sveint> I have tried to press Check in update manager and run apt-get update, but no packaged available in update manager..
[15:11] <sveint> ah, changing the server in sources helped
[15:11] <sveint> I guess the local server is badly outdated
[16:12] <coz_> hey guys
[17:46] <ActionParsnip> hey guys
[17:47] <ActionParsnip> is there a thing for unity to show unread emails in gmail?
[17:48] <Daekdroom> ActionParsnip, indicator?
[17:48] <ActionParsnip> Daekdroom: kinda but in the unity, rather than the panel
[17:48] <Daekdroom> ActionParsnip, I don't think there is
[17:49] <nit-wit> I use Thunderbird for capturing emails and the popups
[17:49] <nit-wit> popups for notification
[17:50] <ActionParsnip> nit-wit: yeah saw that, I guess I could keep the mails on the server so webmail works. Might make a script etc, could be fun. I've seen some code to detect how many unread mails there are
[18:20] <Fluttershy> what is the date/time manager actually called? I'm having issues getting it working
[18:26] <nlsthzn> I made the mistake to select an album in Banshee and select "add to play queue" ... no it starts playing the album after any other song I select
[18:26] <nlsthzn> even after a reboot :/
[18:27] <nlsthzn> oh crud, I just discovered the "play queue" on the left... my bad :p
[18:27] <nlsthzn> doh!
[18:34] <Emanon> Ubuntu seriously needs to have some kind of program to enforce desktop theme settings on firefox.
[18:34] <Emanon> Like the full theme, not just the frame.
[18:35] <Daekdroom> Emanon, it used to be far worse.
[18:35] <Emanon> Well it needs to be a bit better.
[18:35] <Emanon> cause these white backgrounds sear my cornea's and all the userstyles are so poorly done.
[18:36] <Emanon> same for empathy.
[18:36] <Daekdroom> But the default theme does have white background..
[18:37] <Emanon> right but when i change it to a theme with a dark background ff and empathy don't change with it
[18:37] <Emanon> they still stay halogen lamp bright
[18:38] <Daekdroom> Odd. Empathy's background changes here.
[18:38] <Emanon> Also there needs to be a more comprehensive customization system for themes. Instead of picking from frame, control, text  sections individually.
[18:38] <Emanon> The channel user list does but the actual channel frame doesnt
[18:38] <Daekdroom> You can file a bug on that.
[18:39] <Daekdroom> (the customization system)
[18:39] <Emanon> Is there an official forum just for suggestions so I don't have to bother the help channels and all you folks in them?
[18:40] <Daekdroom> There is launchpad, where you can file bugs, and the brainstorm website, where you can throw suggestions.
[18:40] <Emanon> cool
[18:40] <Daekdroom> and you can file ideas as bugs too, they'll be marked as "whislist"
[18:40] <ActionParsnip> Emanon: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com   too
[18:47] <Daekdroom> Have I gone nuts, or are the Unity Dash and Launcher really not-themeable through GTK?
[18:47] <Daekdroom> I've discussed so much about it and people keep saying Unity is complete themeable.
[18:48] <BluesKaj> having input device freeze problems when resizing the terminal , anyone else experience this?
[18:52] <penguin42> Daekdroom: I can't see how you can do any customisation at all
[18:54] <Emanon> I've noticed in 11.04 if I don't have ambiance the maximized versions of the frame buttons don't look right.
[18:55] <Emanon> If I have ambiance they are the proper set but if I so much as change the theme for the controls or something they change when maximized and change back when windowed.
[18:55] <Emanon> which is lame.
[18:58] <Emanon> Also what's with empathy and gwibber working nicely minimized into the me menu but evolution either closing completely or just minimizing normally. That's inconsistent and annoying.
[19:03] <Emanon> I either have to have evolution open and annoying, minimized with the rest of my open programs or use alltray to send it to the notification tray where it sticks out like a sore thumb cause it's a duplicate of the me menu icon like 2 icons over. If I close it, it just ends the program rather than docking it in the me menu like gwibber and empathy. So either lame looking or no updating.
[19:04] <coz_> hey guys
[19:04] <doodoo> any idea when ATI catalyst driver will come to natty. I can't play games now as it is missing :(
[19:05] <blocky> is there a list of known issues with natty a3?
[19:06] <zniavre> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha3#Known%20issues
[19:07] <Emanon> Besides light themes look like poo idk why they keep making them.
[19:07] <doodoo> any idea when ATI catalyst driver will come to natty. I can't play games now as it is missing :(
[19:07] <ChogyDan> doodoo: I've heard it is always just before release for ATI
[19:07] <ChogyDan> or not always, but that is an expected time
[19:07] <doodoo> ChogyDan, Beta or Final release?
[19:09] <ChogyDan> doodoo: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha3#Graphics%20and%20Display
[19:10] <Emanon> You know, maybe more people would send in bug or crash reports f it wasn't such a pain in the ass.
[19:10] <Emanon> It's like 50 confirmation dialogues and stuff.
[19:10] <Emanon> For one crash report.
[19:11] <doodoo> ChogyDan, hmm...thanks for the link xD
[19:11] <doodoo> ChogyDan, Guess I will have to wait
[19:11] <ChogyDan> ya :(
[19:11] <Emanon> When it really could be 2 buttons and a checkbox. Yes or no, If yes strip logs and such check yes or no.
[19:12] <Emanon> Maybe a checkbox for don't bother me anymore as well.
[19:12] <yofel> Emanon: depends on the application, if apport asks questions then that's intended by the package maintainers
[19:12] <Emanon> Then the package maintainers are retarded.
[19:13] <Emanon> No one cares what the devs want. The programs are made for users.
[19:13] <yofel> no, they're not - most bugs can't be fixed without detailed instructions to reproduce, and since most users don't want to add those, they need to force you to add some information they need at least
[19:13] <Emanon> That's why we hate Apple.
[19:14] <yofel> well, apport was made for developers and testers, crash filing is disabled in final releases
[19:14] <Emanon> Thus the checkbox. Include bare minimum or as much as possible.
[19:14] <Emanon> Which is funny cause I still have crashes in final releases.
[19:14] <Emanon> Not atm, cause I'm using natty of course. But still.
[19:15] <yofel> well, that of course happens, but apport will be quiet at least
[19:15] <Emanon> Either way they need to streamline apport.
[19:16] <Emanon> Like if there are a bunch of yes or no dialogues just make it a list of check-boxes with a single confirm button instead.
[19:16] <yofel> well, feel free to file a bug about apport with ideas how to improve it. (Please don't title it "bug filing is too hard")
[19:16] <Emanon> Clicking yes over and over is just geh.
[19:17] <yofel> that's pretty much due to the design of the question API, could be improved I guess
[19:18] <Emanon> It's like really long EULA's, do they think anyone actually reads those things? Just bulletpoint it for us. 1: Don't sell my work ******bag. 2: If you pass it around include the source. 3: If you change it, note it, put it in the man page, and include the source.
[19:18] <Emanon> There I just stripped like 30 pages from the gpl
[19:19] <yofel> heh
[19:19] <ActionParsnip> Emanon: log a bug with the eula then
[19:19] <Emanon> AND I asked more than some devs do now with that man page reference.
[19:20] <Emanon> Stallman is an OG and all but god that thing is wordy.
[19:21] <Emanon> Needs a cliffnotes version.
[19:22] <ActionParsnip> You can submit an expression of this where it counts to maybe get it changed, venting in here does NOTHING
[19:22] <ActionParsnip> Emanon: if you care that much, log a bug
[19:22] <Emanon> ActionParsnip: I've seen you before, do you hang out in rantradio?
[19:22] <ActionParsnip> Emanon: no, and I despise ranters
[19:23] <Emanon> You're thinking a different kind of rant.
[19:23] <ActionParsnip> Emanon: same difference to me
[19:24] <ActionParsnip> Emanon: if you dislike something and moan in an ineffective method and don't make any effort to change it then you should simply sit quiet
[19:24] <Emanon> Think less teaparty and more George Carlin
[19:24] <ActionParsnip> Emanon: not sure who that is
[19:24] <Emanon> George Carlin? He is (was) a comedian.
[19:25] <Emanon> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=george+carlin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[19:25] <coz_> I thought he died
[19:25] <Emanon> Yea thus the "was"
[19:25] <coz_> :)
[19:26] <zniavre> good evening
[19:26] <Emanon> hello zniavre
[19:27] <zniavre> does nouveau (or better nvidia 173.14.xx) can works with unity (3d )
[19:27] <zniavre> ?
[19:27] <bjsnider> zniavre, nouveau might work, nvidia-173 will not until april when nvidia updates it
[19:28] <zniavre> bjsnider,  thank you, to be sharp nouveau can handle unity 3d for sure ?
[19:29] <zniavre> (in fact i want to try it )  ^^
[19:30] <Emanon> noveau handles 2d only iirc
[19:30] <Emanon> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[19:30] <ActionParsnip> zniavre: what nvidia chip are you using?
[19:30] <Emanon> "Any 3D functionality that might exist is still unsupported. Do not ask for instructions to try it. But you can read GalliumHowto in case you are brave enough. "
[19:30] <Emanon> That was from the link
[19:31] <Emanon> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/GalliumHowto
[19:31] <zniavre> ActionParsnip,  old hardware > fx5500 (usinf 173.14.xx legacy drivers
[19:32] <bjsnider> zniavre, no excuse not to upgrade your graphics card to something modern
[19:32] <zniavre> :o(   no money my friend ....
[19:32] <ActionParsnip> zniavre: not a bad chip :) i'd test both to see which works best
[19:34] <bjsnider> zniavre, my card cost $50 new
[19:35] <zniavre> it looks cheap for some but quite expensive for me ...
[19:37] <zniavre> my comp is 11years old (MB GFX RAM)
[19:37] <ActionParsnip> zniavre: it'll run fie. I have a 6150LE chip which works cool
[19:38] <zniavre> go ahead and i ll see ...  thank you all answering
[19:38] <bjsnider> ActionParsnip, you should upgrade too
[19:39] <bjsnider> that is old junk
[19:39] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: why?
[19:39] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: it does what it needs to do and isn't failing
[19:39] <zniavre> :o)
[19:40] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: so why waste money when what I have is fine?
[19:44] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: yeah, should've done what you are doing now earlier...
[19:47] <bjsnider> ActionParsnip, i was just finishing mark shuttleworth's latest blog post. the answer to your query is "because you're falling further and further behind in terms of gpu features and opengl support."
[19:48] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: but it does what it needs to do in a perfectly reasonable time
[19:48] <bjsnider> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/654
[19:48] <bjsnider> eventuall it will not
[19:49] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: it chats and web browses just fine. Until it starts to not do what it needs to do, or starts failing. I don't need to upgrade do I?
[19:50] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: the correct answer is: no   so I won't be upgrading any time soon, like you suggested
[19:50] <bjsnider> those two things are all you use your computer for?
[19:50] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: yes
[19:50] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: literally
[19:51] <bjsnider> you don't need much more than a netbook i would think
[19:51] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: so I dont need some quad core thing with 8Gb RAM do I
[19:51] <bjsnider> 4gb
[19:51] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: doesn't even need that. My system has 1Gb RAM and it runs fine
[19:52] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: as I always say, you don't need a ferrari to drive to the shops and back once a week
[19:52] <bjsnider> also nvidia's latest drivers will stop supporting the 6k series soon. the new cutoff point will likely be the 8k cards
[19:53] <bjsnider> due to the presence of a common set of hardware features
[19:53] <ActionParsnip> then i'll use nouvea and if thats poor I'll grab a video card
[19:54] <zniavre> :o)
[19:55] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: i upgrade as and when, not just because
[19:55] <bjsnider> i'm not making this stuff up, this is years of experience talking. more horsepower is always better than less. most of the systems i service for people suffer from being unable to handle what they're using them for
[19:56] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: theres no point me getting a 12 core server with 16Gb RAM and 2 4Gb video cards, its a complete waste
[19:56] <penguin42> ActionParsnip: Helps keep the room warm in winter
[19:57] <ActionParsnip> penguin42: yeah pretty much
[19:58] <Daekdroom> Is there something that I can use to keep my room cooler? :p
[19:58] <ActionParsnip> Daekdroom: a fan or air conditioning or get a ghost in ;)
[19:58] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Just run the machine backwards
[19:58] <bjsnider> that's what everybody thinks when they buy a computer: here's what it doesn't need to be able to do. then, a year later, they think: why can't it do all of these things i want it to?
[19:59] <Daekdroom> bjsnider, over time, all I do is lower expectations from my machine.
[19:59] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: my needs havent changed in more than 10 years
[19:59] <bjsnider> ActionParsnip, then you are unique in the annals of computer usage. i salute you
[20:00] <bjsnider> o brave new world that has such creatures in it
[20:00] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: thats why your statement is hilarious to me. Until flash starts being bad on it, i'll stick where I am
[20:01] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: I work in IT and so in my time off I don't do any big gaming or anything like that. I do most of my stuff out and about on my Android phone and I like to not be on my computer if I can
[20:02] <bjsnider> ActionParsnip, if you came with me to see some of the situations i find, you might change your views, at least about other people.
[20:02] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: well thats them. I'm not going to change my system because someone else is having issues. That makes no sense
[20:03] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: I understand people upgrade as their needs change, thats obvious
[20:03] <bjsnider> 99% of the people i run into are trying to shoehorn new ideas (like games and movies) into old junk. it doesn't work.
[20:04] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: iknow,i've seen it a lot
[20:04] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: even seen people trying to load old versions of apps onto Vista when they worked on XP and it made vista crash, same sort of thing
[20:05] <Daekdroom> I think bjsnider did it wrong when he didn't consider that ActionParsnip knows exactly what he wants to do.
[20:05] <Daekdroom> Unlike someone who doesn't have so much contact with computers
[20:05] <ActionParsnip> ;)
[20:05] <bjsnider> or people running vista on xp hardware (thanks to the crook vendors)
[20:05] <Daekdroom> I used to run XP on Me hardware for a long time.
[20:05] <Daekdroom> Slowness > Crashness
[20:06] <bjsnider> it wasn't such a huge difference
[20:07] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: its software, it was some adobe nonesense, caused the system to crash so he had to buy the newer version which was compatible
[20:08] <saulus> hey, I want to create a NAT gateway. I followed this howto http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=713874 but it does not work. Maybe theres something new on 11.04. Can you help me?
[20:11] <bjsnider> this state of war between canonical and gnome sucks.
[20:15] <Daekdroom> The only thing I care about is that, if I want to move to Gnome Shell, I'll be able to get indicator support there somehow. No matter who coded it :P
[20:17] <robin0800> Daekdroom, Unity 2d has indicator support though I don't think its meant to
[20:18] <Daekdroom> robin0800, why wouldn't it be meant to?
[20:18] <bjsnider> Daekdroom, i am asking on your behalf and will report the answer
[20:18] <Daekdroom> robin0800, I'm talking about indicators, not systray
[20:19] <robin0800> Daekdroom, ok well it's got both at the moment
[20:33] <zzillezz> hmm why do my updates stall at 25% (kubuntu 11.04 alpha3)
[20:33] <zzillezz> all packages were downloaded, some of them are now 'prepared'
[20:34] <zzillezz> but it does nothing any more now
[20:34] <ActionParsnip> zzillezz: try:  sudo apt-get clean    then retry
[20:35] <zzillezz> ActionParsnip: is it better to update with apt then with the Software Updates program ?
[20:35] <ActionParsnip> zzillezz: both are equally good
[20:35] <arand> zzillezz: but apt-get might provide more information if something goes awry, and aptitude even more so.
[20:36] <zzillezz> hmm kpackagekit doesn't want to close
[20:36] <ActionParsnip> zzillezz: I use this script to automatically update every day: http://paste.ubuntu.com/579459/
[20:36] <zzillezz> i'll have a look thanks ActionParsnip
[20:37] <zzillezz> any way to close down kpackagekit ?
[20:37] <ActionParsnip> zzillezz: it takes an arg too, if you run:     fullupgrade s   it will upgrade  then shutdown after, r makes it reboot :)
[20:43] <coz_> hey guys
[20:44] <ActionParsnip> coz_: hi, are you using natty?
[20:47] <coz_> ActionParsnip,  on my other system yes
[20:47] <ActionParsnip> coz_: just saw you say hi in both :)
[20:48] <coz_> ActionParsnip,  oh I found    /amsg  for xcaht works instead of typing in everychannel I have :)
[20:48] <ActionParsnip> nice :)
[20:48] <ActionParsnip> doesn't fly in pidgin
[20:49] <coz_> ActionParsnip,  oo  I didnt know that
[20:51] <coz_> ActionParsnip,  I am going to have to try pidgin again to see if any of the commands work with it
[20:52] <ActionParsnip> sounds fun
[21:07] <bjsnider> Daekdroom, gnome-shell will have its own gnome indicators in the ppa, and not the ubuntu code, seems to be the answer
[21:08] <Daekdroom> bjsnider, will do
[21:08] <zzillezz> alright, that didn't go as planned ...
[21:11] <zzillezz> updating through terminal now
[21:17] <magn3ts> borders are back?!
[21:17] <magn3ts> booo
[21:20] <Daekdroom> magn3ts, it caused issues with metacity
[21:20] <Daekdroom> and Mark said they were bland
[21:30] <zzillezz> anyone knows what this message means :
[21:30] <zzillezz> (gtk-update-icon-cache:7433): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory
[21:30] <magn3ts> That's sad, really liked them.
[21:30] <magn3ts> Also, just hard fast crashed Virtual Box... open the workspace expose view adn then try to drag a unity dock icon.
[21:30] <magn3ts> "boom!"
[21:31] <Daekdroom> magn3ts, in here, all I have to do is try to drag a unity launcher and it might crash
[21:31] <Daekdroom> Not everytime, but possible and likely
[21:38] <guntbert> where is the "visual effects" tab (used to be found in system/preferences/appearance)?
[22:07] <Daekdroom> guntbert, no longer exists.
[22:07] <Daekdroom> and doesn't have a replacement either.
[22:07] <penguin42> can't see a gui for editing the workspace layout either
[22:08] <Daekdroom> I recall editing it, but I can't remember where
[22:08] <guntbert> Daekdroom: thx
[22:09] <Daekdroom> penguin42, bleh. Found it under ccsm ;)
[22:10] <Daekdroom> It's under the last tab of "General Options" or something like that
[22:14] <guntbert> I guess I'm being especially braindead today: in launchpad, reporting a bug, I am asked "do any of the following bugs describe the bug ....?" - what do I do if that is the case? (I expected to click on the bug description...)
[22:15] <Daekdroom> guntbert, but that is exactly what you're meant to do.
[22:15] <Daekdroom> If it's not clickable, I think the page hasn't loaded fully.
[22:16] <guntbert> Daekdroom: sorry, havin it open in a VM I saw it unfold, but missed the button "yes" at the bottom - all found now :-)
[22:32] <zniavre> re good evening
[22:33] <zniavre> im now on natty with nouveau driver + mesa dri experimental unity seems to does not work, i did something wrong?
[22:37] <guntbert> a heads up: the menu editor from "other" looks quite different (and is less useful) than the one from the right-click menu un the ubuntu icon
[23:00] <tohuw> how do I restart window decorations? They disappeared on me, but compiz is still running...
[23:00] <jbicha> tohuw: I'd do compiz --replace anyway
[23:01] <tohuw> jbicha: thanks. invoking unity-window-decorator seemed to work also; I think it just stopped running
[23:27] <hv> is it known that every emacs window (upstream, and probably the one in the repos) causes indicator-applet-appmenu to leak about a few megabytes?
[23:28]  * hv goes to cross-post in #ubuntu-devel ...
[23:28] <penguin42> youch :-)
[23:32]  * hv should consider trying to fix it, as no one answered there ...
[23:33] <Daekdroom> hv, indicator-applet-appmenu is leaking with everything
[23:33] <Daekdroom> hv, so is unity-panel-service
[23:34] <hv> Daekdroom: is there a clear path for the applications to "modernize", or indicator-applet-appmenu has to be backward-compatible with them?
[23:35] <Daekdroom> hv, I'm not following.
[23:35] <hv> I mean, who has to "plug" the leak?
[23:35] <Daekdroom> It's definitely appmenu's fault
[23:36] <Daekdroom> It was designed to work with like almost all GTK and QT apps, and can be adapted to work with FF, Thunderbird, LibreOffice etc.
[23:36] <hv> I see.
[23:36] <hv> thanks.
[23:37] <penguin42> hv: It's two parts; one is the daemon that does the displaying and the other is a modification to the widget library to pass menus to it
[23:37] <Daekdroom> appmenu and libdbusmenu, respectively, am I right, penguin42 ?
[23:37] <penguin42> I think so
[23:37] <penguin42> I wish they'd get sorted out - running on KDE gnome apps are spewing errors
[23:38] <Daekdroom> The apps themselves or appmenu?
[23:39] <hv> is there a clear roadmap or wiki on the status of appmenu support for individual apps? I don't think it is a good idea to file bug reports for individual apps.
[23:42] <wierd0{}> nattys awesome
[23:42] <Omega> It is!
[23:42] <wierd0{}> :)
[23:42] <wierd0{}> i was an ubuntu hater.  i changed my mind :)
[23:44] <wierd0{}> i'd even pay for it :o
[23:44] <wierd0{}> :)
[23:44] <wierd0{}> too many nightmares
[23:47] <Omega> Haha.
[23:54] <UndiFineD> weird0{}: why did you hate it ?
[23:55] <weird0{}> maverick marked the worst year of my life
[23:55] <weird0{}> :)
[23:55] <UndiFineD> oO
[23:55] <weird0{}> np
[23:55] <weird0{}> dinner time
[23:58] <Omega> Heya UndiFineD!