=== jjohansen is now known as jj-afk
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
zkriesseUbuntu Youth Team Meeting in three minutes16:58
zkriesseShow your hand if you're here for said meeting16:58
MkaysiOops, too soon.16:59
MootBotMeeting started at 11:00. The chair is zkriesse.17:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:00
zkriesse[Topic] Welcome to the Ubuntu Youth Team Meeting17:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Welcome to the Ubuntu Youth Team Meeting17:00
zkriesseOk, show your hands if you're here for the Ubuntu Youth Team meeting17:01
zkriesseIf we only get a few I'm going to cancel said meeting here and just move it over to #ubuntu-youth17:01
MkaysiOops, too soon.17:01
serfusi know AndrewMC is in camp, so he will not attend17:02
zkriesseYes i know17:02
nisshh4 people? is that it?17:02
zkriesseanyone else?17:02
nisshhdont think so17:03
zkriesseOk, let's end this here and move to #ubuntu-youth17:03
zkriesseRather not tie up the channel here17:03
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:03.17:03
hakimsheriffim here17:05
Mkaysihakimsheriff: #ubuntu-youth17:05
topylitime for the ircc meeting. who's around?19:01
tsimpsonI'm here19:02
topylialright. afaik we shouldn't expect the others today. we have quorum19:02
nhandlertopyli: #startmeeting19:03
MootBotMeeting started at 13:03. The chair is topyli.19:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:03
topyliwhen i said i can chair, i didn't mean it. just that i'm willing19:03
topyli[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda19:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda19:04
topylii see no new bugs19:04
topylione of these days we should close the "ubuntu too busy" bug one way or another19:04
nhandlerAgreed topyli. There realy isn't a good solution to that at this time imo19:05
topylii would close it as wontfix. i don't agree that it's too busy anyway19:06
topylior notabug, do we have such a resolution available?19:06
tsimpson[link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/39279919:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/39279919:06
ubottuUbuntu bug 392799 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful" [Medium,In progress]19:06
nhandlertopyli: That would be 'invalid'19:06
topyliah yes19:06
ScottKThat actually looks like opinion.  First valid use of that state I think I've seen.19:07
tsimpsonI think the support guys do a good job of directing uses to more specific channels when appropriate anyway19:07
nhandlerI agree it is busy, but I'm not sure I agree that it is a bug. But I can see why some people do.19:07
nhandlerScottK: I forgot they added that status. I agree19:08
nhandlertsimpson: +119:08
nhandlerI think the 'opinion' status might be the best "solution" to this bug at this time19:08
topyliwe can leave it there, people can add comments if they have any. it's been quiet though19:09
tsimpsonyou can't "delete" a bug anyway19:09
topyliaction items. i did the ubottu bug chattiness stats19:11
nhandlerI don't think jussi got to his item (and he is on vacation now)19:11
tsimpsonwe still have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/680052 which I think is inactive19:11
ubottuUbuntu bug 680052 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu-us-ca logging needs search indexing blocked" [Undecided,New]19:11
tsimpsonand there's really nothing _we_ can do about it19:11
nhandlertsimpson: Probably best to just unassign us from it19:12
nhandlerBack to action review, I took care of the IRC Members team action19:13
nhandlertopyli: Did you update the wiki?19:14
topylielky sent the mail about the bug parsing19:14
topylinhandler: oh yes. i did19:14
nhandlertsimpson: Is the private logging of -ops-team also sorted (I know the channel was setup)19:15
tsimpsonI have ubottu currently logging there19:15
tsimpsonin a secret place while I try and integrate LP into authentication19:15
nhandlerGreat. So besides jussi's one item, everything appears to be done19:15
topyliwe rock19:15
topyliso about the bug logging in #ubuntu, its chattines averages at 3.8 lines per day so it's not a problem IMO19:16
nhandlertopyli: I agree. We had some complaints at first, but 3.8 lines is a VERY small percent of the daily chat that takes place in there19:17
nhandlertsimpson: Thoughts?19:18
tsimpsonI think ~4 lines per day is worth it19:18
nhandlerLooks like we are in agreement then19:18
topylisomeone also referenced several X bugs within a few minutes, so i think it was useful to figuring out a problem in that case19:19
topyli(i didn't have time to actually study the logs to see the context properly)19:19
nhandlerIt is also fairly trivial to disable this feature in the future if it starts being abused or anything like that19:20
topyliso we agree to leave it enabled?19:21
tsimpsonI don't see any reason to not19:21
topyli[AGREED] leave the ubottu bug feature enabled in #ubuntu19:21
MootBotAGREED received:  leave the ubottu bug feature enabled in #ubuntu19:21
topyli[topic] Add eir to #ubuntu19:21
MootBotNew Topic:  Add eir to #ubuntu19:21
tsimpsondidn't we already discuss the eir item last time?19:22
topyliwe did. i thought there's some new development on the issues since it's on the agenda :)19:22
nhandlerI kept it on the agenda, as we still had some issues to sort out (which I was hoping we would have done by now)19:23
nhandlerI'm still having some difficulty finding the arguments for/against ubottu's channel notices in -ops. This is making the topic of eir's notices hard to address19:23
nhandlerIf anyone could find and tell me when/where to find those arguments, it would be very useful19:23
nhandlerAs for the ubottu changes needed for eir, I don't believe anything has changed since the last meeting19:24
tsimpsonI think the main objection to it is the generalization that "notices are bad"19:24
topyliit would be useful to know how many actually think so, though19:24
nhandlerWell, I would disagree with that generalization. Notices are actually appropriate for certain types of messages (and IRC clients should respond to them appropriately)19:25
tsimpsonI'm tinkering with getting ubottu to understand comments to eir, the main issue is that the bot needs to know which ban ID to associate the comment with19:25
tsimpsonnhandler: sure, but lots of our ops were taught that "channel notices are a banable offence", hence the feeling19:26
nhandlertsimpson: That is mainly because most of those notices are spam and not sent in appropriate situations19:27
nhandlertsimpson: As for the ubottu issue, it is rather nasty, but ubottu could query eir to figure out the ban string a certain eir id represents. It could then take that ban string to find the right ban in the BT19:27
nhandlerBut there really isn't much more to discuss on this topic right now. We need to find the old arguments so we can see whether they are even still applicable in this situation19:28
topylimaybe we leave the item standing while the technicalities are figured out19:29
nhandlertopyli: Yep. And maybe a general ACTION for the Ubuntu OPs to help us find those old arguments? ;)19:29
topyli[action] ops to datamine for arguments against notices in -ops19:30
MootBotACTION received:  ops to datamine for arguments against notices in -ops19:30
topyli[topic] Review #ubuntu-ops-team19:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Review #ubuntu-ops-team19:30
topylifrom what i see, -ops-team works19:30
nhandlerI haven't seen it being overly necessary (from the discussions taking place there), but I also haven't seen it being used in an inappropriate way. I'd be willing to keep it open and review it again further down the road19:31
tsimpsonit hasn't turned into a troll-pit yet, that's a good sign ;)19:31
tsimpsonand there's already been some inter-ops team work done in there from what I see19:32
topyliyes it's not -ops-rant, at least yet19:32
topyliif anything, i'd like to see many of the discussions taking place in -ops move there19:33
topyli(i don't want to push that though, just a thought)19:33
tsimpsonobviously it'll take some time for people to get used to using the channel19:33
nhandlerI'm not sure what discussions you are talking about topyli, so I can't really respond to that. I still like the idea of things being open and transparant when possible19:34
tsimpsonwe tried open and transparent, our ops were targeted for it19:34
topylinhandler: some disagreements on specific cases mostly19:34
topylibetter off unlogged imo19:35
nhandlertsimpson: Note the 'when possible'19:35
serfuswho does qualify for this channel? i remember not only core ops, right?19:35
tsimpsonnhandler: I still expect -ops to be the main channel for our ops to communicate19:36
nhandlerSo do we want to just add a 'review -ops-team' item to the agenda for a month or two down the road?19:36
topyliserfus: some ops from big non-core channels are invited as well19:36
tsimpsonnhandler: yeah, I think it should be continuously reviewed for a while yet19:36
topyliagreed. let's keep it and review it from time to time19:36
nhandlerMaybe add that to the calendar so we don't forget?19:37
tsimpsonsure, monthly is probably a good time-frame19:37
topylimonthly at first perhaps?19:37
tsimpsoneventually we'll get annoyed with reviewing it, and we'll know it's a success ;)19:37
topyliso we have a success metric too. perfect!19:38
topyli[agreed] keep -ops-team, review it monthly for an undefined while19:38
MootBotAGREED received:  keep -ops-team, review it monthly for an undefined while19:38
topylii can action the calendar19:38
topylishould we have a chat about it on meetings?19:39
topylilike every second meeting we see if the channel is okay19:40
tsimpsonwell, if we review it monthly it would be every second meeting anyway19:40
topyliyeah but it could happen outside meetings too19:41
tsimpsonwe can just state in the meeting that we continue to approve it, and only go into details if we have concerns19:41
topyliit's more open that way too19:42
tsimpsonwe should probably add it to the fixed agenda items so we don't forget19:42
tsimpsonwell, add it temporarily19:42
nhandlerOr at least [ACTION] it so we review it when we review outstanding actions19:42
tsimpsonnhandler: then we'd be actioning it every month, rather than just once19:42
topylii'd add it to the fixed items for now. if we're unsure whether it's time, we can check the calendar :)19:43
tsimpsonI know it's not exactly a "fixed" item, but it will be one of the first things we see when we look at the agenda19:43
topyliactually this is more complicated than just say whether the channel is ok or not in every meeting :)19:44
topyliok, solution: i'll add a fixed item saying we'll review -ops-team if it's a saturday19:46
topylianything else?19:48
tsimpsonthat's it19:49
topyli[action] topyli to do post-meeting stuff19:49
MootBotACTION received:  topyli to do post-meeting stuff19:49
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:49.19:49
topylithanks guys19:49
tsimpsonit's local time where ever MootBot is19:51
topylithe bot must be running on an unconfigured win95 box, they default to tijuana time19:51
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan

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