[00:35] <OchoZero9> hifi, what does E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_natty_main_il8n_Translation-en means?
[00:36] <OchoZero9> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened
[00:37] <yofel> there's something wrong with that file, refresh your package cache again
[00:38] <OchoZero9> how do I do that?
[00:39] <yofel> erm, how did you get that error?
[00:40] <OchoZero9> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[00:40] <OchoZero9> i've done this so far
[00:40] <OchoZero9> sudo mv /var/lib/dpkg/status /var/lib/dpkg/status-RENAMED
[00:41] <yofel> run sudo apt-get update again
[00:41] <OchoZero9> sudo mv /var/lib/apt/lists/ /var/lib/apt/lists-RENAMED
[00:41] <OchoZero9> E: Could not open file /var/lib/dpkg/status - open (2: No such file or directory)
[00:42] <OchoZero9> lol i erased it
[00:42] <OchoZero9> well i renamed it
[00:43] <yofel> do not do that ;) - the lists aren't needed, apt will fetch them, the status file is
[00:43] <OchoZero9> i've googled my problem and people solved it by doing sudo rm var/lib /apt/lists/*  -vf
[00:43] <OchoZero9> but i didnt want to risk it so i mv instead of rm
[00:43] <yofel> usually it's enough to just run apt-get update again, removing the lists might help if it fails in succession
[00:44] <OchoZero9> i ran it again
[00:44] <OchoZero9> so should i just make that path?
[00:44] <OchoZero9> mkdir -p /var/lib/dpkg/status
[00:45] <yofel> nono, move the old file back
[00:45] <yofel> dpkg needs that file to be correct
[00:45] <DanaG> Say, was the KDE version in Kubuntu Natty supposed to add a Tablet profile?
[00:46] <OchoZero9> I have a tablet :)
[00:46] <DanaG> I'm running the live(USB) right now, on a 915GM tablet.
[00:46] <DanaG> Works pretty well, once you disable Blur.
[00:46] <OchoZero9> what's 915gm?
[00:46] <OchoZero9> the chipset?
[00:46] <DanaG> Yeah, and the GPU.
[00:47] <OchoZero9> i dont know what mines is
[00:47] <OchoZero9> but it's intel HD graphics
[00:47] <OchoZero9> and I don't know how much memory it has i think it autoscales , beats me
[00:47] <Daekdroom> It shares memory with RAM
[00:48] <OchoZero9> I dont know how much it shares
[00:48] <OchoZero9> i don't have such option in the bios to allocate any memory to the graphics
[00:49] <OchoZero9> i wish i can share 2gb
[00:49] <OchoZero9> I renamed the ..../status/ back to normal
[00:49] <Daekdroom> That'd be a huge waste.
[00:49] <OchoZero9> and ran update 2x
[00:49] <OchoZero9> W: GPG error: http://packages.medibuntu.org natty InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 2EBC26B60C5A2783
[00:50] <OchoZero9> i have 8gb of ram
[00:50] <Daekdroom> Still a huge waste.
[00:51] <OchoZero9> i have no idea how to control the video memory anyways . in *nix, windows, or the bios
[00:51] <OchoZero9> infact i don't think it has a chip for video, it's probably built in the processor
[00:53] <OchoZero9> yofel, I'm geting a different error now
[00:53] <OchoZero9> W: GPG error: http://packages.medibuntu.org natty InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 2EBC26B60C5A2783
[00:53] <yofel> that's a warning, not fatal
[00:54] <OchoZero9> so go ahead with dist-upgrade?
[00:54] <yofel> sudo apt-key adv --recv-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com 2EBC26B60C5A2783
[00:54] <yofel> will resolve it though
[00:54] <OchoZero9> i'm on kubuntu, does it matter?
[00:54] <yofel> nope
[00:55] <OchoZero9> ok
[00:55] <OchoZero9> looks good now
[00:55] <OchoZero9> sigh upgrade failed
[00:56] <OchoZero9> he following packages have unmet dependencies:   libcanberra-gtk0 : Breaks: libcanberra-gtk3-0 (< 0.28-0ubuntu1) but 0.26-1ubuntu9 is to be installed   E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
[00:57] <yofel> erm, just what are you trying to do?
[00:57] <OchoZero9> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[00:57] <DanaG> hmm, anyone here use unity on a tablet?
[00:57] <OchoZero9> I tried
[00:58] <OchoZero9> it's broken
[00:58] <DanaG> Oh, and last time I tried a livecd, I seem to recall it not having "shut down" in the corner menu.
[00:58] <OchoZero9> and utouch, i don't know where that's at
[00:58] <penguin42> DanaG: I'd assumed that was the point of Unity!
[00:58] <DanaG> All you could do was suspend.
[00:58] <DanaG> Not sure whether that was Maverick or Natty.
[00:59] <OchoZero9> i havent been able to suspend for a few weeks now
[00:59] <OchoZero9> lol
[00:59] <penguin42> for anyone who can't hibernate I'd be curious whether you still have swap
[00:59] <OchoZero9> I think when i upgraded the memory my suspend and hibernate broke
[01:00] <yofel> well, you need swap for hibernate, at least as much as memory is used when you hibernate
[01:01] <DanaG> On an SSD, resume from hibernate can be slower than booting (at least with Windows).
[01:01] <yofel> OchoZero9: well, you obviously have broken dependencies somewhere, try an apt-get upgrade first and then dist-upgrade again
[01:01]  * yofel agrees with DanaG
[01:01] <yofel> at least it won't make much of a difference
[01:02] <OchoZero9> my swap is 4gb
[01:02] <OchoZero9> my ram is 8
[01:02] <DanaG> So, where's this fabled tablet KDE?
[01:02] <OchoZero9> i've tried sleepign upon boot with less than 2gb of ram used. and still have issued
[01:02] <yofel> will work as long as you don't use more than 4G RAM when you hibernate, if you use more it won't be able to write all of the memory to the disk
[01:03] <OchoZero9> then the memory upgrade wasn't what broke it
[01:03] <yofel> hm, no idea then, I personally don't hibernate
[01:03] <OchoZero9> I can't afford an SSD that suits me
[01:04] <OchoZero9> one of the apps for my digital logic class is 10GB!!
[01:05] <OchoZero9> apt-get doesn't do parralel downloads?
[01:06] <yofel> only if you have multiple servers in your sources
[01:06] <OchoZero9> sudo apt-get upgrade seems to be working but it says 600kB/s
[01:06] <yofel> it will only use one connection to one server
[01:07] <DanaG> 600 kilobytes?
[01:07] <OchoZero9> yes
[01:07] <yofel> y'know, I know people that would be very happy with that :P
[01:07] <Daekdroom> That's not very slow.
[01:07] <DanaG> that's 4800 kilobits.  4.8 megabits.
[01:07] <DanaG> What's your internet connection itself?
[01:08] <Daekdroom> I'm upgrading at a stellar 433kB/s
[01:08] <DanaG> I was downloading from cdimage and getting like 160 kilobits.
[01:08] <DanaG> hmm, I think I'll try the gnome cd image now...
[01:08] <yofel> also, archive.ubuntu.com tends to be slow since too many people use it, and the mirrors need to sync from it
[01:09] <DanaG> viva la mirrors.kernel.org.
[01:09] <OchoZero9> i think im being capped for not paying the cable bill i guess
[01:09]  * yofel is happy with de.archive.ubuntu.com
[01:09] <Daekdroom> I'm using archive.ubuntu.com
[01:09] <Daekdroom> Shame on me
[01:09] <OchoZero9> i just did a speed test and got 4 megabits while running apt-get
[01:10] <penguin42> well I never - I just found they added 'control centre' to the shutdown/hibernate/etc/ menu - so *that's* how you're supposed to get to settings in unity
[01:10] <Daekdroom> Stuff is all over the place.
[01:10] <Daekdroom> You can control gwibber through launcher, music player through indicators.
[01:11] <OchoZero9> should i ctrl C
[01:11] <OchoZero9> and do sudo apt-get upgrade && sudo apt-get dist-ugprade?
[01:12] <OchoZero9> i need to take a nap and i dont want to wait 20 minutes till this is done
[01:12] <OchoZero9> Dana what tablet do u have btw?
[04:42] <foxbuntu> hey all, running current 11.04, desktop icons have disappeared, but everything is still listed in ~/Desktop any ideas?
[05:16] <tohuw> what's the name of the control application for the panel clock? I can't right click it and select the properties from there because it's bugged (for me) since a recent natty patch...
[05:16] <tohuw> not being able to set it for 24 hour with seconds displayed is ruining my life
[05:20] <jbicha> tohuw: indicator-datetime-preferences or if that doesn't work you can edit the dconf keys
[06:19] <ecinx3> how do i check which alpha do I have?
[06:23] <jbicha> ecinx3: if you are up-to-date, you are on Alpha 3
[06:24] <ecinx3> that's what i'm trying to make sure of
[06:24] <ecinx3> since i had some troubles running dist-upgrade
[06:24] <arand> ecinx3: lsb_release -a
[06:25] <xzcvczx> anyone else having an issue with natty alpha 3 where the top bar and bottom bar are grey instead of the black that they should be?
[06:25] <arand> That and if apt shows any new updates or not, note that natty is currently a rolling release (so to speak).
[06:25] <ecinx3> it just says dist id: ubuntu  desc. ubutny natty   release 11.04
[06:26] <jbicha> xzcvczx: did you install the gnome3 ppa?
[06:26] <xzcvczx> no i have only updated whats in stock
[06:27] <xzcvczx> and unrelated programs
[06:27] <ecinx3> i think i'm okay since  'uname -r' outputs '2.6.38-6-generic'
[06:27] <jbicha> and did you make sure Ambiance is your theme in gnome-appearance-properties ?
[06:27] <xzcvczx> yup
[06:28] <xzcvczx> even after i select a different one then reselect ambience it doesn't fix it
[06:28] <xzcvczx> when gnome first loads its black but then turns grey
[06:29] <ecinx3> which is the best configuration for a multitouch tablet with pen?
[06:30] <ecinx3> gnome 3, unity , kde ?? kubuntu , ubuntu, xubuntu
[06:30] <jbicha> xzcvczx: there have been multiple bugs reported where gnome-settings-daemon crashes similar to 733253
[06:31] <jbicha> bug 733253
[06:32] <xzcvczx> jbicha: well the window title bars are still correctly themed its just the "menu bar"/bottom bar
[06:35] <xzcvczx> and the background for the panel is set to "None (use system theme)"
[06:42] <kklimonda> $ ls -l /var/crash/|wc -l
[06:42] <kklimonda> 18
[06:42] <kklimonda> sigh
[06:43] <kklimonda> all from the last 24 hours..
[06:43] <kklimonda> the least stable development release I can remember.
[06:47] <xzcvczx> lol im getting a lovely segfault from software center
[06:51]  * xzcvczx wonders why a missing cache file causes a segfault
[06:52] <kklimonda> well, it's not really a segfault, just an unhandled exception
[06:53] <kklimonda> unless you have hit some other error
[06:54] <xzcvczx> anyway i cna regenerate the cache?
[06:55] <xzcvczx> ~/.cache/software-center/software-center.agent.db is apparently what its looking for
[07:26] <OchoZero9> I don't know what went wrong that my multitouch doesn't work anymore
[07:27] <OchoZero9> I used to have pinch to zoom in several applications and I think i was able to right click by touching the screen then nearby touch the screen again wiht another finger
[07:28] <OchoZero9> the pen still works fine, pressure, and eraser. at least in xournal it does.
[07:29] <OchoZero9> anyone has suggestions on which distro to use for a tablet, and which windows manager?
[07:35] <magn3ts> why does the default unity menu suck so bad?
[07:41] <OchoZero9> lol
[07:42] <magn3ts> no really, cardapio is 1000x times more useful for finding an app quickly
[07:43] <magn3ts> here I lose all organization of apps, and have to make more clicks to get to all my apps, and then they're huge icons that I ahve to scroll through
[07:43] <magn3ts> ugh
[07:47] <OchoZero9> maybe they are optimized for netbooks or tablets
[07:47] <OchoZero9> if they icons are large.
[07:47] <OchoZero9> change the icon size
[07:48] <OchoZero9> ubuntu is doing the right thing
[07:48] <OchoZero9> whether u think so or not
[07:48] <OchoZero9> and lots of geeks are complaining about unity
[07:48] <magn3ts> but *very* small tweaks could make it much more usable
[07:49] <OchoZero9> but Ubuntu is linux for human beings, not necessarily geeks
[07:49] <magn3ts> and trust me... some stupid stupid people have used cardapio without a second thought and commented about how easy it was to use.
[07:49] <OchoZero9> it's in alpha btw
[07:49] <magn3ts> ... OchoZero9 they're tweaks that will be better for users, I'm not some stuck up geek who is whining about a power tool.
[07:49] <OchoZero9> and give a year or two
[07:49] <OchoZero9> most of the interfaces we use will be extinct
[07:49] <OchoZero9> because everything is going to be touch screen
[07:50] <magn3ts> It's a pain in the ass to find apps that I've installed, and opening the Applications panel shows only 5 icons and requires you to press a button to see more.
[07:50] <OchoZero9> everything's a pain
[07:50] <magn3ts> There are tons of things that are *going* to confuse a user because it's hiding functionality behind a 20x20 icon.
[07:50] <OchoZero9> when ur city widens the road, it creates traffic while they are working on it
[07:50] <magn3ts> how can that possibly be a good idea?
[07:50] <OchoZero9> but when it's done  there's less traffic and room for growth
[07:50] <magn3ts> Right.
[07:51] <magn3ts> But the changes I'm talking about are minimal and could be done quickly without overhead.
[07:51] <OchoZero9> like i said, it's alpha and it's not complete or broken
[07:51] <OchoZero9> then do it
[07:51] <OchoZero9> u have the source
[07:51] <magn3ts> they're things that someone went out of their way to code the way they did.
[07:52] <OchoZero9> btw don't get me wrong, there are econmic reasons to get ride of gnome
[07:52] <magn3ts> The "its alpha" is more the asnwer I was looking for.
[07:52] <magn3ts> really?
[07:52] <OchoZero9> yes
[07:52] <magn3ts> ?
[07:53] <OchoZero9> how do ubuntu developers get paid?
[07:54] <OchoZero9> jeopordy song
[07:55] <OchoZero9> I think they get money from ubuntu's cloud services for one
[07:56] <OchoZero9> and there's some apps that generate revenue from gnome which would cut into ubuntu's pockets
[07:56] <OchoZero9> the music service stuff
[07:56] <OchoZero9> revenue going to the gnome foundation
[07:57] <OchoZero9> u can still use gnome when 11.04 comes out. It's just not default
[08:06] <magn3ts> what?
[08:06] <magn3ts> Gnome is still there.
[08:06] <OchoZero9> nothing, never mind
[08:06] <magn3ts> I get it.
[08:06] <magn3ts> I like Unity.
[08:06] <magn3ts> A lot.
[08:06] <magn3ts> A whole lot.
[08:07] <OchoZero9> u can place suggestions in the launchpad
[08:07] <magn3ts> The consolidated API for the launcher/dock. The new indicator panel, etc is all slick. If it is easily themable it will be a hit.
[08:07] <OchoZero9> i'm using kde atm
[08:08] <magn3ts> I hope that Canonical goes more customizey than Gnome has done historically and that the unity menu becomes a bit more useful in places or is easily changeable/pluggable.
[08:08] <OchoZero9> not very touch friendly
[08:08] <OchoZero9> we'll see
[08:08] <OchoZero9> we'll have a bunch of patches
[08:08] <magn3ts> Yeah, I'm not sure how that gets fixed. I have a hard time imagining a UI that is very similar on mouse/keyboard and  touch devices
[08:08] <OchoZero9> since the final is really a releaase candidate
[08:09] <OchoZero9> windows7|linux > android 3
[08:09] <OchoZero9> but people will argue with us
[08:09] <OchoZero9> i don't understand who like iOS and why
[08:09] <OchoZero9> i have an ipod touch
[08:10] <OchoZero9> and i feel like throwing it all the time since nothing has menus or nothing
[08:10] <OchoZero9> it' slike stop and go. I like to have gears
[08:11] <OchoZero9> what im trying to say  is although u adapt to touch, you don't lose power
[08:12] <OchoZero9> tablet will be a thing of the passed and tablet PCs wil reign supreme
[08:12] <OchoZero9> so like you are saying it has to  be usable with mouse and keyboard
[08:13] <OchoZero9> anyways see ya , I'm doing hw
[08:19] <xXAndromedaXx> tall a dictionary for empathy?
[08:20] <xXAndromedaXx> *how would i go about installing a dictionary for empathy
[10:00] <ior3k> anyone know how I can make pidgin light up the little envelope whenever I get a new IM?
[10:11] <marenostrum> Hello. I Web upgraded from Maverick to Natty and I suspect that there are 2 problems: 1- I seem not to experience Unity interface. Main menus (applications-places-system) are still the same; is it what it should be or need I do something to activate Unity? 2- I can't see my Software Sources neither from Synaptic nor from Software Center. When I try to reach the list of repos from Synaptic, it doesn't show up anything but keeps on saying "Repos are chan
[10:11] <marenostrum> ged, you should update"; from Software Center -> Software Sources: It tries to do something but exits with no result (its window shows the initial list of software) Any idea? Are they bugs or should I do a fresh install of 11.04 to have an idea about it?
[10:28] <zniavre> good morning
[10:28] <zniavre> i updated this morning and after a new session login , the applications "button" is empty
[10:28] <zniavre> im using unity-2d
[10:30] <zniavre> i can't find any report on this behaviour , i am alone with this worrie ?
[11:26] <coz_>   hey all
[11:30] <navwey_> HIU
[11:31] <navwey_> freenode
[11:43] <HerrBert> I just realized that 11.04 can not "use" my bluetoothdevice or maybe has no proper driver, how can I check that?
[11:45] <HerrBert> I am not getting any Error but at the bluetooth-applet in the right upper corner there is a red/white cross and I can not do anything with my bluetooth
[11:52] <HerrBert> http://pastebin.com/XfEtcNAE shows bluetoothd -d -n
[12:22] <BluesKaj> Hiyas
[12:25] <penguin42> Hey BK
[12:26] <penguin42> BK: Are you running Unity - I've got a slightly weird bug I'd like someone else to check
[12:31] <BluesKaj> penguin42, sorry , I went back to KDE , din't like unity much , just alarge toolbar IMO :)
[12:31] <penguin42> Yeh, I'm running KDE on ---> and unity on <----
[12:32] <BluesKaj> penguin42, ahh, adventurous  eh?..I see alot of complaints about unity bugs in #ubuntu
[12:33] <penguin42> BluesKaj: I'd say it's 100 times better than it was a month ago - it still needs to be 100 times better though
[12:34] <BluesKaj> penguin42, do you see any advantages in it ?
[12:35] <penguin42> BluesKaj: hmm - I can see if you want a touch screen then yes; and offloading the menus to the top panel actually saves screen real estatate on this laptop; but it doesn't feel well thought out
[12:39] <kklimonda> they still have to do a lot of work on it, but I like it.
[12:40] <penguin42> kklimonda: I'm certainly less against it than a month ago when it was unusable
[12:40] <BluesKaj> darn phat fingers
[12:40] <penguin42> kklimonda: Do you have it running at the moment?
[12:40] <coz_> :)
[12:40] <kklimonda> penguin42: yes
[12:40] <kklimonda> GNOME Shell looks more coherent, but it doesn't feel right..
[12:41] <coz_> I have it on my other system... I can log into Unity if you like
[12:41] <penguin42> kklimonda: If you click Find internet apps what do you get?  I get the development apps
[12:41] <kklimonda> penguin42: confirmed
[12:41] <kklimonda> if you report a bug, point me to it
[12:42] <penguin42> ok, will just check to see if anyone has it already
[12:42] <BluesKaj> looking at a new laptop just for travel ..wish the linux lappys weren't so expensive
[12:44] <coz_> BluesKaj,    http://www.system76.com/index.php?cPath=28
[12:45] <penguin42> kklimonda: It's already reported - bug 732978
[12:46] <kklimonda> penguin42: does alt+f2 work for you?
[12:46] <penguin42> what's it supposed to do?
[12:46] <kklimonda> it launches completely random application when I press enter
[12:46] <kklimonda> it's supposed to replace the old run dialog
[12:46] <kklimonda> and it replaces it, just doesn't work as it should ;)
[12:47] <penguin42> kklimonda: Hmm seems to work for me
[12:47] <penguin42> kklimonda: Sigh - it's so broken by using a new toolkit; nothing really 'works' - no caret in the text entry box, scroll bars are shot etc
[12:48] <kklimonda> *nods*
[12:48] <kklimonda> this is actually what hurts me the most
[12:48] <BluesKaj> coz_, yeah, I was looking at a 15.6" Acer "elcheapo", with all the bells and whistles for less than $500 cdn..I think I'll just install kubuntu and dual boot with windows ...wife isn't a fan of linux
[12:48] <penguin42> kklimonda: Yeh surely they could have come up with a gtk theme
[12:48] <coz_> BluesKaj,  oh :) understood
[12:49] <kklimonda> penguin42: they could have just used clutter
[12:49] <kklimonda> the decision not to use clutter/mutter will hurt us imo in the long run.
[12:50] <coz_> kklimonda,  really?
[12:50] <coz_> kklimonda,  I would have thought the replacement of mutter with compiz would have solved more issues than not
[12:50] <kklimonda> coz_: in the short run yes
[12:50]  * penguin42 goes to get some food
[12:50] <coz_> kklimonda,  mutter was resource intensive
[12:51] <kklimonda> coz_: it was, but it won't be forever.
[12:51] <coz_> kklimonda,  and much younger... I believe,, than compiz
[12:51] <kklimonda> coz_: and again - going with compiz was a good short term decision
[12:52] <coz_> kklimonda,  well for me.. I am glad of the replacement,,if for no other reason... my icons are on everyone's system lol
[12:52] <kklimonda> coz_: but in the long run it will just serve as a yet another incompatibility with the stock GNOME.
[12:52] <kklimonda> which will hurt Desktop Linux as whole.
[12:54] <robin0800> kklimonda, unity 2d is using qt I think
[12:55] <kklimonda> robin0800: unless Canonical is planning on investing tons of money into making Qt a first class citizen of the GNOME desktop this choice is even worse one.
[12:55] <zniavre> wich icon coz_  ?
[12:55] <coz_> zniavre,  ccsm
[12:55] <zniavre> :o)
[12:55] <coz_> zniavre,  the icons in ccsm rather
[12:56] <zniavre> ok
[12:59] <zniavre> there is no more separator inside the menus (unity-2d at least ?)
[13:05] <coz_> zniavre,  I havent tried unity-2d... what are the differences?  installing now :)
[13:09] <zniavre> coz_,  in fact i do not know unity (3d) can't run here (i still do not know why, until compiz running well with nouveau driver )
[13:09] <coz_> zniavre,  ok no biggie... I will play with it once everything is installed :)
[13:09] <zniavre> im using unity-2d + compiz ...
[13:09] <coz_> cool
[13:10] <zniavre> but i hav the feeling unity (3d) is much better
[13:10] <coz_> zniavre,  well I will let you know :)  I am not a fan of unity overall
[13:11] <arand> Well unity-2d isn't scheduled for default inclusiong until oo
[13:11] <coz_> ah
[13:12] <robin0800>  arand think it will be in 11.04
[13:14] <arand> robin0800: Not as default, from what I've gathered.
[13:14] <arand> I've herd metacity being the fallback.
[13:15] <coz_> so it will always be an optional package install :)
[13:15] <coz_> ?
[13:15] <coz_> not a :)  I meant a  ?
[13:16] <arand> I would assume there are aims to make it the default fallback instead of metacity/gnome in oo
[13:17] <robin0800> coz_, ubuntu have said it will be a fallback for people who can't run 3d search google middle of january
[13:18] <coz_> robin0800,  ah ok,, seems to appear to be no difference  so far...  i have to play with this
[13:18] <arand> The diff between the upstreamish gnome fallback and unity-3d is something that strikes me as a potential issue though, although the instability (my personal experience on kvm) is a bigger issue at the moment...
[13:21] <coz_> mm  unity-2d seems more resource intensive than 3d
[13:21] <coz_> on t his one system
[13:23] <coz_> bah!  I just dont like Unity
[13:23] <zniavre> :o)
[13:24] <zniavre> my wife like it, im not sure why i do not like unity at this moment
[13:25] <coz_> damn fingers
[13:26] <coz_> zniavre,  well... unity is a netbook edition...I hope it was not even inpassing, thought of as viable for a desktop system and monitors larger than 15"
[13:26] <zniavre> i got 24" here
[13:27] <coz_> yikes
[13:27] <coz_> :)
[13:28] <coz_> zniavre,  the problem as i see it is, global menu, mac's menuing system..was origianlly designed by apple because their monitors at the time were 9".. it made sense.. keep the File Edit View on the upper panel  to save realestate
[13:28] <coz_> now,, even on mac,,, it makes no sense for screens larger than 15",,, my opinion
[13:29] <zniavre> ho it's the global menu the worrie for you ?
[13:29] <coz_> zniavre,  that and the side panel...
[13:29] <zniavre> haha
[13:29] <coz_> zniavre,  but that's why classic gnome is available
[13:29] <zniavre> yes
[13:30] <coz_> zniavre,  on the one system with  11.04  I use calssic gome with cairo dock... if i want a dock
[13:30] <zniavre> (im fan of the globalmenu-applet)
[13:30]  * patdk-wk uses gnome on his 10" netbook screen, fits good
[13:30] <coz_> :)
[13:30] <patdk-wk> I tried unity for about 3 hours, hated every second of it :(
[13:30] <coz_> :)
[13:31] <coz_> with cairo dock ,, the launchers can be made very small  32x32 if you want
[13:31] <patdk-wk> still seems to use so much more space than I need
[13:31] <coz_> the unity launcher seems  rather large and defeat s the purpose of global menu
[13:31] <robin0800> unity 2d fits well on my laptop only the one top panel used for everything
[13:31] <patdk-wk> the only thing I use is the ssh-menu and rdp-menu applets in gnome
[13:32] <zniavre> can't you hide the side panel (launcher) ?
[13:32] <coz_> zniavre,  yes in compiz unity plugin
[13:32] <coz_> zniavre,  but like in unity 2d  it auto hides
[13:32] <robin0800> coz you can auto hide or dodge the launcher
[13:32] <zniavre> but unusable with unity-2d
[13:32]  * BluesKaj considered the netbook route but the phat fingers won't work well, and here in Canada the prices for them are atrociously high , the equivalent priced laptop has many more features and newer HW
[13:32] <coz_> BluesKaj,  i completely identify with that lol
[13:33] <robin0800> zniavre, its in the configuration system
[13:33] <coz_> unity launcher and  global menu should not be on the same system
[13:33] <zniavre> robin0800,  yes i saw that but not the icon size
[13:34] <robin0800> zniavre, correct and no drag and drop but I bet both will come
[13:35] <robin0800> coz Ive set the launcher to 1 that by default its not shown
[13:36] <coz_> robin0800,  ah ok
[13:38] <coz_> it will be interesting to see how this is incorporated into the next LTS
[13:45] <zniavre> i just hope when the nvidia driver i need will be available i will able to use unity 3d im afraid my computer is too old for new  distros
[13:54] <BluesKaj> zniavre, which nvidia card ?
[13:55] <zniavre> fx5500
[13:55] <zniavre> using 173.140xx driver
[13:55] <zniavre> 14.xx*
[14:00] <BluesKaj> zniavre, is that the default , recommended driver ?
[14:03] <coz_> nvidia_current should work with that card
[14:12] <BluesKaj> coz_, there are some odd issues with some nvidia cards , my older 7600gt was usinga newer driver than my 8400gs for a while, altho now the 8400 is using the newer driver after the upgrade
[14:13] <coz_> BluesKaj,  oh?  wow  I guess I better pay more attention...my 7xxxgt  also uses newer driver
[14:16] <BluesKaj> coz_, I had to revert the old pc with the 7600 back to 10.10 ...X was just broken too badly to rescue on natty . Maybe once the beta is released I'll try again
[14:16] <coz_> BluesKaj,   seems to have worked with my 7300gt  for natty  but I havent tried recently...sometimes it seems things are far too complicated and variable
[14:17] <Ian_Corne> anyone else getting black bars on the classic gnome desktop gnome-panels?
[14:18] <BluesKaj> coz_, good to know that , then other HW nonrecognition could be the issue.
[14:21] <_Platypus_> Theoretically, it is possible to install an Alpha, a Beta, an RC, and then to a final without having to reinstall from Beta to RC, etc?
[14:21] <_Platypus_> *is it possible (sorry, came out backwards.)
[14:22] <coz_> _Platypus_,  s hould be possible...
[14:22] <coz_> _Platypus_,   there may be some minor details missed during the upgrade as opposed to a clean install..but all of the essentials should upgrade
[14:23] <_Platypus_> Good to know. I can always clean up the minor details afterwards, but I, like most, despise the install/set up of any OS...so I'm trying to find a solution that will keep the blood pressure from spiking.
[14:24] <coz_> _Platypus_,   I think I understand,, from my perspective,, I prefer clean installs  at release
[14:24] <coz_> _Platypus_,  I hate fixing minor issue :)
[14:25] <coz_> on the birght side,, I like complaining too :)
[14:26] <_Platypus_> Same....I like to lodge a good long winded complaint now and again myself, as it keeps me from exploding. But, come to think about it, I think I'll probably go a clean install.
[14:26] <coz_> _Platypus_,  well its only 2 months away,, playing with the alpha / beta now will always be helpful
[14:28] <robin0800> coz I think a hell of a lot has changed this time since 10.10
[14:29] <coz_> robin0800,  I agree,, not sure what you meant th ough :)
[14:30]  * BluesKaj is a fan of the autoclean and updatedb commands, it keeps things nice and orderly , so clean installs aren't as necessary as they used to be on my setup
[14:31] <robin0800> coz just a very good reason for a clean install at release
[14:34] <_Platypus_> I have to admit I want to see what the mass consensus on Unity is after Natty has been out for awhile. I like it, but a lot of people seem mixed.
[14:34] <coz_> _Platypus_,  I definitly dont like it :)
[14:34] <coz_> I will stick with classic gnome
[14:36] <_Platypus_> coz_: If you don't mind me asking, what are your dislikes regarding it?
[14:36] <coz_> _Platypus_,   well first I generally have dual monitors and global menu...as in mac on large monitors.. is  wasteing time... too long a distance to  File Edit View
[14:37] <coz_> _Platypus_,  secondly , on smaller monitors aka netbooks,, the launcher is far out of scale and takes up too much realestate   I know it can autohidden though
[14:38] <coz_> _Platypus_,  it is useless on desktop system with monitors larger than 15"  ,,, this is also one reason I no longer use mac
[14:38] <coz_> work time is severly diminshed with global menu + large screens
[14:38] <coz_> unless you use  easystroke instead of menus
[14:40]  * BluesKaj now understands why unity was so fugly ..using our plasma tv as monitor . This pc is our media server.
[14:40] <_Platypus_> coz_: Those are valid points...explains some of the mixed reviews of Unity a LOT (they just complain, but never explain the hardware, which is helpful when forming an opinion.)
[14:41] <coz_> _Platypus_,  well many of the complainers may not remember why apple used that type of menuing system...
[14:41] <coz_> _Platypus_,   11.04  is nice in itself.. I like it as calssic gnome...
[14:42] <coz_> I runs well considering....
[14:43] <_Platypus_> coz_: Always up for giving it a try with a straight Gnome desktop. I like Unity, but I do sometimes feel like I'm navigating my wife's Ipod.
[14:44] <coz_> _Platypus_,  well sure,, it is sort of designed to be somewhat like that
[14:44] <coz_> _Platypus_,   and  everyone has to determine ,,according to their work habits,, if Unity is the way to go
[14:50] <_Platypus_> coz_: I'd just be happier with smaller icons. Too big, kind of gaudy, and they bother my sense of aesthetics. but I like it. I can also imagine what a nightmare something like this would be like on a full production system.
[14:50] <coz_> _Platypus_,  yes the launcher is out of proportion
[14:50] <coz_> _Platypus_,  you can install cairo dock ,, set the laucners to 32x32 if you like
[14:51] <coz_> launchers
[14:51] <coz_> _Platypus_,  a resize option for Unity Launcher is needed
[14:52] <coz_> _Platypus_,  I am not sure unity would be considered for production system
[14:54] <_Platypus_> coz_: No....I think putting it on a production machine would cause a spike in anti-anxiety medications being prescribed to admins. :)
[14:55] <coz_> _Platypus_,  oh?  lol
[14:55] <coz_> _Platypus_,  ah yes we have to consider the pharmaseutical companies :)
[14:56] <_Platypus_> coz_: Good answer!
[14:57] <storrgie> is there a way to force unity to minimize?
[14:58] <coz_> storrgie,  try  alt+F10
[14:58] <coz_> storrgie,  if you meant the windows
[14:59] <storrgie> coz_, no i mean the menu (left side ribbon)
[14:59] <storrgie> it's always up
[14:59] <storrgie> taking up screen real estate
[14:59] <coz_> oh
[14:59] <coz_> storrgie,   open ccsm  and click on the unity plugin and tick the autohide  option
[15:00] <storrgie> its set
[15:00] <coz_> or maybe in gconf  for launcher  set to 1  mentioned by someone here
[15:00] <coz_> I havent checked where that option is
[15:01] <coz_> storrgie,   yes the unity autohide option no longer keeps the launcher in hide position
[15:01] <coz_> storrgie,  I believe,,, somewhere it can be set to   1   to keep it hidden
[15:01] <storrgie> it appears that after compiz crashes and I manually restart it... it works
[15:01] <storrgie> but at the initiation of my session (turn on computer) it doesnt
[15:01] <storrgie> it keeps itself up
[15:02] <coz_> mm
[15:03] <coz_> storrgie,  ah ok that makes sense
[15:03] <storrgie> is there a way i can set it to work without it having to be re-initiated
[15:04] <coz_> storrgie,  i am not sure,,, maybe some else here know
[15:28] <storrgie> I also cant hibernate... how can i troubleshoot that?
[15:29] <vega_> storrgie: how much swap space vs. physical memory do you have?
[15:29] <storrgie> 2GB physical, 4GB swap
[15:29] <vega_> ok, so not that..
[15:31] <vega_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspendHibernateResume
[15:31] <patdk-wk> it won't let you hibernate? or it won't come back from hibernate?
[15:31] <storrgie> wont give me the option
[15:33] <storrgie> vega_, I think this is for debugging if you have problems
[15:33] <storrgie> nothing about how to check why you dont have the option
[15:33] <storrgie> (unless I missed it)
[15:34] <vega_> storrgie: see for instance section "Hibernating from text mode"
[15:34] <vega_> could be of help
[15:43] <h00k> ubottu: bug 734865
[15:45] <storrgie> there is no pm-hibernate command
[15:45] <vega_> storrgie: apt-get install pm-utils
[15:46] <storrgie> well it appears to hibernate fine...
[15:47] <vega_> so then only quest for missing buttong.. :)
[15:47] <vega_> button
[15:48] <storrgie> actually not even that
[15:48] <storrgie> after installing pm-utils, the buttons are there
[15:48] <vega_> oh :)
[15:48] <storrgie> how do i report that?
[15:48] <patdk-wk> how did you install?
[15:49] <storrgie> from the current site
[15:49] <storrgie> downloaded the latest build
[15:49] <patdk-wk> ya, but from what?
[15:49] <patdk-wk> ubuntu-natty-desktop?
[15:49] <storrgie> yessir
[15:49] <patdk-wk> there are like 10+ iso's
[15:49] <patdk-wk> guess report it then :)
[15:49] <storrgie> yeah
[15:50] <storrgie> patdk-wk, wheres?
[15:51] <patdk-wk> launchpad.net
[15:51] <storrgie> alright man, beyond that
[15:51] <patdk-wk> probably against the ubuntu-desktop package
[19:02] <trism> trying to figure out why my wireless fails to connect to a wpa ap in natty, using the p54usb module with isl3886 firmware, which has worked since karmic. ends up in a associate 1,2,3, timed out, direct-probe 1,2,3 timed out loop. doesn't appear to be the new kernel or wpasupplicant, because the ones from debian experimental work fine, and the mainline kernel in natty doesn't work either
[20:52] <panfist> i'm not sure if this is proper place to give feedback, but my focus keeps getting stolen, and eclipse is broken, so....thumbs down
[20:57] <guntbert> !bug | panfist
[20:57] <panfist> there are at least two bugs already for this problem
[20:58] <guntbert> panfist: and?
[20:58] <guntbert> you are running and complaining about alpha software :)
[20:59] <panfist> well i'm only running it because the suggested fix for my bugs in maverick was "we dont care about maverick anymore try natty"
[21:00] <guntbert> panfist: then help fixing - by improving reports, testing,...
[21:01] <guntbert> panfist: who said ^^ ?
[21:01] <panfist> it's on a forum post. i don't know if i could dig it up now. got there from searching "fglrx drm module not found"
[21:02] <panfist> anyway i wish i had time to help but i think i'm going to downgrade my two machines to the LTS release, because maverick broke two machines, similar problem: enable proprietary driver and then X doesn't load, on an old integrated geforce 6150 and amd 3200
[21:15] <edgy> Hi, I installed nvidia driver from jockey and now when I start I get this ubuntu is running in low-graphics mode, what am I doing wrong, please?
[21:17] <yofel> edgy: what does your /var/log/Xorg.0.log say?
[21:25] <edgy> yofel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/580307/
[21:26] <edgy> yofel: this is my first time to have an nvidia card in my laptop. I used to use ati so I am missing the obvious
[21:26] <yofel> o.O
[21:26] <yofel> what does 'lspci | grep VGA' say?
[21:26] <bjsnider> the log says there are no nvidia cards
[21:27] <edgy> yofel: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
[21:27] <edgy> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation Device 0df4 (rev a1)
[21:28] <edgy> yofel: it seems I have two vga cards ;)
[21:29] <yofel> urgh, I would suggest diggin in the BIOS settings how to disable one, I don't think we handle such setups very well currently
[21:29] <yofel> *digging
[21:29] <bjsnider> that's an understatement
[21:29] <yofel> (at least I don't know much about them)
[21:29] <yofel> heh
[21:32] <edgy> yofel: I will reboot now to see whether there is an option on the bios, but I wonder if ubuntu can't see the nvidia card, how come jockey suggest I install the driver?!
[21:33] <yofel> no, ubuntu obviously sees the card as lspci shows and makes jockey suggest it, but it tries to use the intel card instead which makes it fail
[21:33] <bjsnider> edgy, next question...
[21:34] <nemo> http://mozillalabs.com/messaging/ubuntu-unity-launcher/ - neat
[21:34] <yofel> bjsnider: can't there be a hack in jockey to put a warning for such multi-gpu setups?
[21:34] <bjsnider> ask pitti
[21:34] <nemo> I still am not using Unity since I found it unreliable last time I tried it, but I do use thunderbird a lot
[21:34] <nemo> since it is a lot more reliable than evolution
[21:34] <yofel> k
[21:40] <lcb> CD/DVDDrive issue. Just in case. Mine was not working (only eject). I installed hal, then '$ sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh dbus hal'
[21:41] <nemo> BTW
[21:41] <nemo> I'm currently doing an update of my natty from a kernel 2 kernels back
[21:41] <nemo> somehow, my ethernet stopped working in last 2 kernels
[21:41] <nemo> I had not noticed since I hadn't rebooted in a little while
[21:41] <lcb> wow
[21:41] <nemo> here's hoping upgrading fixes
[21:42] <nemo> took me a while to blame natty since the network here sucks and has a lot of stupid mac filtering rules
[21:42] <nemo> wasn't until I switched to the external comcast line that I got suspicious
[21:43] <edgy> yofel: hi, unfortunately, the bios doesn't contain any settings to enable one or disable the other
[21:43] <yofel> then I'm out of ideas, sry, no experience with those setups
[21:44] <edgy> yofel: correct me. this means the vga used now is intel?
[21:44] <yofel> probably? remove the driver and you'll know from the Xorg log contents
[21:45] <edgy> yofel: but before I installed the driver, I have black and white strips when I click any menu so I cannot see well
[21:45] <edgy> yofel: installing the driver removed that!
[21:46] <yofel> no idea..
[22:12] <edgy> ok another problem, I cannot browse youtube videos, I just get black screen!
[22:14] <edgy> yofel: may be you can help with the youtube issue?
[22:14] <yofel> flash is installed? did it crash?
[22:32] <nemo> yay. networking is back to normal
[22:37] <FunnyLookinHat> Natty includes Unity , right?
[22:39] <edgy> yofel: yes, flash is installed
[22:40] <edgy> yofel: how can I tell whether it crashed?
[22:40] <yofel> check the output of dmesg for some crash message or /var/crash for anything
[22:40] <edgy> yofel: about:plugins shows Shockwave Flash 10.2 r152
[22:41] <yofel> sounds about right
[22:41] <yofel> architecture?
[22:41] <yofel> I do remember someone else having flash issues a few days ago
[22:42] <edgy> yofel: dmesg has a line: npviewer.bin[3500]: segfault at 0 ip 00000000f61c8aef sp 00000000ffd9c010 error 4 in libflashplayer.so[f5dab000+b5f000]
[22:42] <edgy> yofel: amd64
[22:42] <yofel> crashed
[22:43] <edgy> yofel: so?
[22:43] <yofel> hm, try the native amd64 one: deinstall flashplugin-installed, download the plugin from http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10_square.html and extract it into ~/.mozilla/plugins/
[22:43] <yofel> *flashplugin-installer
[22:46] <edgy> yofel: I thought flashplugin-installer would install from adobe site already, no?
[22:46] <yofel> the 32bit one, since the 64bit one isn't officially released but only a 3rd preview release
[22:47] <yofel> I'm getting crashes with both though, not very frequent and refreshing the page usually makes it work
[22:48] <jbicha> if you're going to use the 64-bit preview plugin, you may as well use https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/flash
[22:49] <edgy> yofel: I don't have a .mozilla/plugins/ shall I create it?
[22:51] <yofel> yes
[22:52] <edgy> yofel: wow! it works
[22:53] <yofel> try it a while, it feels more stable than the 32bit+nspluginwrapper here, but I still get crashes
[22:53] <yofel> only since recently though...
[22:53] <edgy> yofel: you know I forget to remove the flashplugin-installer ;)
[22:54] <yofel> no idea what it used then ^^
[22:54] <yofel> it should prefer the one in ~/.mozilla though I think
[22:54] <edgy> yofel: exactly about:plugins confirms this
[23:00] <jbicha> using the PPA automates all of that, no need to remember to go to the website when there's an update, no need to remove the old 32 bit plugin
[23:29] <edgy> yofel: sorry I forget to thank you
[23:29] <yofel> np, you can try the PPA too if you want next time, I forgot that it existed