[01:37] <nigelb> morning
[01:38] <nigelb> paultag: nice work on the package manager ;)
[01:38] <nigelb> and now we have Yet Another Package Manager (tm)
[02:21] <paultag> nigelb: thanks :P
[02:22] <paultag> nigelb: it's mostly working. Once it's done, I am going to become a hermit
[02:22] <mhall119> doesn't Suse have a trademark on "Yet Another .*"
[02:22] <nigelb> paultag: even if you weren't like completing it, it would be a good way to explain to someone how package management works
[02:22] <paultag> nigelb: what's cool is I can set up package contexts -- and swap between them (swap in and out packages instantl)
[02:22] <paultag> nigelb: it's already working mostly
[02:22] <paultag> nigelb: not removing, but unlinking works
[02:23] <nigelb> paultag: yay :)
[02:23] <paultag> nigelb: I just need to cross compile a version of eglibc and then I can build it up. Might do that next weekend if I have time
[02:24] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, they so do ;)
[02:24] <mhall119> paultag: where does it store the unlinked stuff? /opt/?
[02:24] <paultag> mhall119: /syn/pkg/version/[usr|etc|bin]/...
[02:25] <paultag> mhall119: the whole filesystem is similinks
[02:25] <paultag> (besides /syn/)
[02:25] <mhall119> hmmm, could it maybe leverage the alternatives stuff, which manages a bunch of /usr/bin symlinks?
[02:26] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, it will -- and be able to swap what I call "contexts" -- so you can sudo syn --context dev, and it will swap in all the headers / gcc (and so on), and then swap back after
[02:26] <paultag> mhall119: it will also let you swap versions in and out, so you can test against different versions of a library
[02:26] <mhall119> oh very nice
[02:27] <mhall119> I wonder if it would somehow be possible to say "Run this process with version x of this other app, but let everything else on the system use version y of that other app'
[02:28] <paultag> mhall119: yeah actually ;)
[02:28] <nigelb> mhall119: oooh, that'd be cool
[02:28] <paultag> mhall119: once a binary is loaded into memory, it's not tied into the filesystem
[02:28] <mhall119> like, say, running Django using an old version of south and jquery
[02:28] <mhall119> would be super helpful for us developing LD and summit
[02:29] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, but it fights with dpkg ;)
[02:29] <nigelb> oh, so we have to become hermits like you to use it? :P
[02:29] <paultag> nigelb: yeah :)
[02:29] <mhall119> can we just symlink in being a hermit when we need it?
[02:29] <nigelb> bug :P
[02:30] <paultag> I guess :)
[02:30] <mhall119> syn --context hermittag
[02:30] <paultag> I could try to make a LiveCD, but I'm not sure it'd take :)
[02:30] <paultag> mhall119: working on it ;)
[02:30] <paultag> the iso format won't allow for similinks IIRC
[02:30] <mhall119> I've been following your posts about it with interest
[02:30] <paultag> so It'd have to be a sqash fs that extracts to ram
[02:30] <paultag> mhall119: thanks :)
[02:31] <mhall119> you could do it in the squashfs, or even as part of the casper startup
[02:31] <nigelb> mhall119: I've been thinking of a livecd that has everything setup for web dev
[02:31] <paultag> aye, but for now, I'd like to see it just work (tm) :)
[02:31] <nigelb> mhall119: no config needed, It Should Just Work (tm) like.
[02:32] <mhall119> nigelb: who said anything about config?
[02:32] <nigelb> mhall119: I meant apache config, which is generally nightmarish
[02:32] <mhall119> I'm thinking a livecd could show it off by letting you boot different syn contexts
[02:32] <paultag> there's one linux distro that's startup is dictated by XML or something
[02:33] <paultag> mhall119: that'd be nice. It'd be cool to swap KDE and GNOME, and get rid of duplicate apps from the system while you're in another context
[02:33] <paultag> it'd still use up fs space, but meh :)
[02:33] <nigelb> boot from usb
[02:33] <mhall119> I was more thinking swapping between stable and devel versions of the system packages
[02:34] <paultag> aye
[02:34] <mhall119> so, you could theoretically ship a Maverick + Natty ISO
[02:34] <paultag> yup! :)
[02:34] <paultag> and on failure, in theory pull back the package to a stable version
[02:35] <nigelb> that'd be fun
[02:35] <nigelb> and paultag would go crazy trying to work with deps :p
[02:35] <paultag> nigelb: yeah, it's not going to be nice. At least I don't have to worry about dep order
[02:36] <nigelb> paultag: this would still be apt right?
[02:36] <paultag> nigelb: no
[02:36] <nigelb> err, debs
[02:36] <paultag> nigelb: narp
[02:36] <nigelb> s/apt/deb
[02:36] <paultag> nigelb: syn, it's my own format
[02:36] <nigelb> ooooh
[02:36] <paultag> nigelb: github/paultag/syn
[02:36] <mhall119> so, how long until dependency resolution drives you totally mad?
[02:36] <paultag> mhall119: I plan on ignoring it as long as I can
[02:37] <paultag> ;)
[02:37] <nigelb> mhall119: I think we could start the countdown
[02:37] <paultag> dude, I'm stuck without internet, what else does a man do>
[02:38] <mhall119> it's like the Shining
[02:38] <paultag> I did wnat any sane hacker would do, spend his time offline writing a package manager
[02:38] <nigelb> paultag: haha, I know the feeling.  That's when I configured ldap :P
[02:38]  * paultag rocks back and forth
[02:38] <mhall119> or the simpson's version of the Shinning
[02:38] <nigelb> ok, so everyone pool in and make sure paultag has sattilite connectivity
[02:38] <mhall119> No IRC and no Internet makes paultag, something something
[02:38] <nigelb> or he'll go mad with dep resolution
[02:39] <paultag> I've come to the conclusion that writing a package manager is goddamn stupid
[02:39] <nigelb> mhall119: No IRC and no internet makes paultag build crazy stuff :P
[02:39] <paultag> nigelb: ja :)
[02:39] <nigelb> Finally!
[02:40] <paultag> nigelb: I'm not going to stop working on it!
[02:40] <paultag> I want it on my netbook >:D
[02:40] <mhall119> paultag: I think it's one of those developer milestones, along with writing a web framework and a programming language
[02:40] <paultag> mhall119: so far, I've done both of those, so it's about time to pass this milestone :)
[02:40] <nigelb> paultag: its the realization that counts
[02:40] <mhall119> and if you're a Java dev, a swing layout manager
[02:41] <nigelb> mhall119: and templating engine
[02:41] <mhall119> oh right, templating engine definitely
[02:41] <mhall119> also, writing your own datetime calculations, one of the earliest and most painful milestones
[02:41] <nigelb> oh, don't get me started on datetime.
[02:41] <nigelb> I've been kicking myself about that summit bug.
[02:41]  * mhall119 says "DST" to nigelb 
[02:42] <nigelb> oh hell.
[02:42]  * nigelb headdesks.
[02:42] <mhall119> :)
[02:42] <mhall119> like I said, painful
[02:42]  * mhall119 should write down a comprehensive list of developer milestones
[02:42] <nigelb> Vry.
[02:42] <nigelb> Very.
[02:42] <nigelb> mhall119: oh, just cut internet from paultag and list down what he writes :P
[02:43] <mhall119> lol
[02:43] <mhall119> too true
[02:43] <paultag> last time I was caught without anything to do, I wrote game of life only using ints
[02:43] <paultag> and using bitwise operations to bring processing from o(n) to o(1)
[02:44] <paultag> http://blog.pault.ag/post/3440210498/the-game-of-life-and-why-i-love-this-problem <-- for folks who want to read it :)
[02:45] <nigelb> Oh, I need to post the postcards today
[02:45] <paultag> https://gist.github.com/838285 <-- code for the hackers in the room
[02:48] <paultag> anywho, BBL over here
[02:48] <paultag> One love, folks
[02:51] <nigelb> mhall119: is it 22:50-ish for you?
[03:09] <duanedesign> hello all
[07:06] <dpm> good morning everyone!
[07:10] <czajkowski> *yawns8 morning
[07:13] <nigelb> morning dpm and ara :)
[07:13]  * nigelb growls at netsplits today
[07:22] <czajkowski> I dislike pulseaudio
[07:54] <kim0> morning folks
[08:16] <nigelb> hey kim0!
[08:16] <nigelb> kim0: is the schedule for cloud days fixed?
[08:17] <kim0> nigelb: hey
[08:17] <kim0> why is that
[08:17] <nigelb> kim0: Do we have your green to go ahead and add to the calander?
[08:17] <kim0> ah yes please do
[08:17] <nigelb> kim0: awesome, I'll get it done today evening and you can confirm before your EOD
[08:17]  * kim0 nods
[08:18] <kim0> Thanks man
[08:19] <nigelb> :)
[08:47] <dholbach> good morning
[09:02] <nigelb> hey dholbach :)
[09:03] <dholbach> hey nigelb
[09:03] <nigelb> dholbach: good WE? :)
[09:03] <dholbach> very good - how was yours?
[09:04] <nigelb> Full of awesome :)
[10:03] <popey> Morning!
[10:08] <nigelb> hey popey
[10:39] <duanedesign> morning all
[10:47] <huats> morning everyone
[11:46] <dpm> wow, thanks daker for the merge proposal with the fixes to the translations portal!
[11:46] <dpm> I'm looking at it right now
[11:47] <daker> ok
[11:47] <daker> i am not really good in drupal, but i have tried to make it nice
[11:47] <daker> brb
[11:48] <dpm> you're probably much better than I am :)
[11:52] <kim0> @dpm daker is made of awesome :D
[12:03] <dpm> yeah, I can tell :)
[12:23] <dholbach> nigelb, I just had a look at the dev/loco overlap script and I found the bug
[12:23] <dholbach> it's "finished" now :)
[12:24] <dholbach> czajkowski, ^ :)
[12:25] <nigelb> dholbach: I just saw your mail, sorry I couldn't get around to it
[12:25] <dholbach> no worries
[12:26] <nigelb> dholbach: falling sick etc, caused the delay
[12:26] <nigelb> dholbach: btw, does EDGE_SERVICE_ROOT still exist?
[12:26] <dholbach> no, we replaced it in all kinds of scripts
[12:27] <nigelb> well, the overlap script seems to use edge
[12:27] <dholbach> for some reason it still seems to work ;-)
[12:28] <nigelb> all hail lifeless :P
[12:41] <daker> back :)
[12:41] <daker> thanks kim0 :)
[13:26] <akgraner> greg-g yep he is awesome - I am going to review his python tutorial and give feedback
[13:26] <akgraner> since it's geared to people like me with no programming experience
[13:27] <greg-g> akgraner: awesome!
[13:28] <akgraner> I first meet him at SCaLE I was talking about how cool I thought openhatch was and he says, "Hi, I'm one of the maintainers."
[13:29] <akgraner> Craig was at PyCon too...
[13:30] <akgraner> those guys are cool too..I had to leave earlier than I thought on Sunday so I missed their bof/podcast/interview session
[13:56] <greg-g> akgraner: you mean Rick? of Lococast? (and sorry, I had to walk away from the computer for a bit)
[13:56] <akgraner> I think they were both there but I only talked to Craig...
[14:27] <czajkowski> took just under 2 hrs last night to do the install of natty on my laptop :(
[14:28] <mhall119> did something go wrong, or do you just have a slow drive?
[14:48] <akgraner> czajkowski, wow - it only took me about ten minutes on an HP mini
[14:53] <czajkowski> download was fine
[14:53] <czajkowski> took 20 mins
[14:53] <czajkowski> but the install
[14:53] <czajkowski> and clean up
[14:53] <czajkowski> 2 hrs
[14:53] <czajkowski> took about the same last year on my mini 9
[15:07] <mhall119> cleanup?
[15:08] <mhall119> did you have it automatically download and install updated packages?
[15:08] <mhall119> that might explain the extra time
[16:10] <jono> dholbach, can we go now?
[16:14] <jono> jcastro, quick call, looks like dholbach is out with the dog
[16:15] <jcastro> sure!
[16:15] <jcastro> I am on skypes!
[16:15] <jcastro> jono: just ring whenever
[16:19] <dholbach> jono, back now - so just call whenever :)
[16:20] <jono> dholbach, otp with jcastro, won't be long
[16:20] <dholbach> sure
[17:21] <dholbach> kim0, jcastro: ready
[17:21] <dholbach> mumble? skype?
[17:22] <kim0> dholbach: jcastro skype
[17:22] <dholbach> kim0, just call whenever
[17:22] <jcastro> ready!
[17:23] <kim0> jcastro: can u call
[17:23] <jcastro> sure
[17:43] <JFo> jcastro, dude... your askubuntu profile has me craving tacos now.
[17:45] <jcastro> everyone loves tacos
[17:45] <popey> gah, i want mexican food now
[17:45]  * popey shakes his fist at this window, closes it and goes home
[17:46] <jcastro> you know what I love about tacos?
[17:46] <jcastro> tacos.
[17:50] <dholbach> ok my friends - I call it a day  - see you all tomorrow
[17:50]  * dholbach hugs you all
[18:20] <pleia2> greg-g: have a few minutes to look over a CC BY-SA 3.0 question?
[18:22] <greg-g> pleia2: send it on over
[18:22] <pleia2> greg-g: great, email?
[18:23] <greg-g> pleia2: that works well
[18:23] <greg-g> greg@grossmeier.net
[18:23] <pleia2> thanks, sent :)
[18:31] <czajkowski> JFo: you free for a quick pm ?
[18:31] <czajkowski> not urgent or anything
[18:33] <JFo> sure
[18:33] <JFo> czajkowski, ^^
[18:33] <czajkowski> thanks
[18:33] <JFo> np
[18:45] <czajkowski> me and natty are going to have a massive falling out
[18:45] <czajkowski> :(
[18:52] <czajkowski> and now gwibber has gone
[18:52] <czajkowski> this is really not been a good upgrade
[18:52] <czajkowski> :(
[18:52] <czajkowski> off to talk nicely to kenvandine
[18:52] <czajkowski> :(
[18:52] <czajkowski> *sobs*
[19:26] <pleia2> greg-g: thank you! :)
[19:30] <czajkowski> kenvandine has so much patence
[19:30] <czajkowski> *patience
[19:32] <Pendulum> czajkowski: did he fix your Unity?
[19:32] <czajkowski> he knows why gwibber is behaving the way it is
[19:32] <czajkowski> logged the plymouth bug
[19:32] <Pendulum> *nods*
[19:32] <czajkowski> updated the other bug on sound
[19:32] <czajkowski> so getting there
[19:36] <greg-g> pleia2: you're very welcome. I hope that helps.
[19:37] <pleia2> greg-g: very much, I was leaning toward the same conclusion you came to but it's nice to have specifics to back it up :)
[19:39] <greg-g> :)
[19:46] <doctormo> How are yuo greg-g and pleia2?
[19:46] <pleia2> doctormo: great! you?
[19:47] <doctormo> Oh grand, got some good feedback on my Edubuntu wallpaper and made fun of Mark and Gnome on my blog using an edited public domain 1907 comic.
[19:47] <doctormo> Have a good weekend yourself?
[19:48] <pleia2> I went to the zoo and saw a baby koala :)
[19:48] <pleia2> which is the best thing ever
[19:48]  * AlanBell likes pleia2's zoo pictures
[19:52] <czajkowski> awwww
[19:52] <greg-g> doctormo: doing good (actually, better, just went to get some coffee! ;) )
[20:06] <czajkowski> akgraner: not seen AW yet hope it was good
[20:07] <doctormo> pleia2: Nice :-) drawing and laundry now though
[20:07] <doctormo> Did you see a meerkat at the zoo/
[20:07] <pleia2> doctormo: oh yes, I always visit the meerkats :)
[20:08] <czajkowski> that you do
[20:08] <czajkowski> :D
[20:08] <czajkowski> meerkat cafe also :)
[20:08] <doctormo> czajkowski: How's you?
[20:08] <czajkowski> fine thanks
[20:09] <pleia2> meerkat cafe was awesome :)
[20:09] <doctormo> czajkowski: Doing anything for wednesday?
[20:10] <czajkowski> whats hapepning wednesday ?
[20:11] <doctormo> czajkowski: St. Patricks day isnt it? the Boston perade is next Sunday
[20:11] <czajkowski> THURSDAY
[20:11] <czajkowski> march 17th
[20:11] <czajkowski> I've the day booked off
[20:11] <czajkowski> dr.s in the morning and beers in the afternoon
[20:12] <czajkowski> refuse to work a day that has always been a national holiday for me
[20:12] <czajkowski> :D
[20:12] <pleia2> shouldn't the day *after* be the holiday? ;)
[20:12] <pleia2> or is that just a sick day? hehe
[20:12] <czajkowski> I've also booked that day off too
[20:13] <czajkowski> 2 mates from ireland are coming over
[20:13] <czajkowski> :D
[20:13] <pleia2> haha, nice
[20:13] <czajkowski> 4 day weekend :D
[20:13] <doctormo> Sorry, Thursday. I bet you don't know when St. David's day is though ;-)
[20:14] <doctormo> We're going to be having some fun, promised not to wear bowler hat, wave any sort of orange or union jack.
[20:14] <czajkowski> :o
[20:23] <jcastro> UDS in barcelona was for ..... which ubuntu?
[20:23] <pleia2> karmic
[20:24] <jcastro> wow really?
[20:24] <jcastro> man
[20:24] <jcastro> I was thinking at least lucid
[20:24] <mhall119> lucid would have been state-side
[20:25] <pleia2> yeah, lucid was dallas (my first one, I convinced my boss to let me go because it was an lts uds :))
[20:29] <czajkowski> how do I log a bug against print screen no longer working
[20:44] <AlanBell> is is the alt+prtscr bug?
[20:45] <doctormo> czajkowski: depends if it's an issue with the keyboard event or the program
[20:45] <popey> i suspect not AlanBell it works in natty now
[20:45] <doctormo> run gnome screenshot diectly and find out.
[20:49] <czajkowski> it runs fine if I fun it in gnome
[20:49] <czajkowski> or from command line
[20:58] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/735120
[20:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 735120 in unity "print screen key no longer works in unity" [Undecided,New]
[23:20] <paultag> nigelb: http://pastebin.com/TEBiBEdL
[23:50] <mhall119> man, things are just going crazy in Japan