[02:02] <slobex> hi
[05:26] <HazRPG> hi
[07:53] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:55] <AlanBell> morning
[08:03] <knightwise> mornin
[08:13] <danfish> lo
[08:14] <andylockran> Good Morning Guys and Gals
[08:14] <andylockran> How are things?
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
[08:15] <andylockran> I've got a DNS query :p   If you have two servers setup, and you modify the slave and adjust the serial - will that get picked up by the master - or is the master/slave relationship a standard master/slave - in that all edits need to be done on the master?
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> no
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> well
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> If you've configured them as master/slave you should always edit on the master
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> the slave will only have the zone file in /var/cache/ somewhere
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> (it shouldn't have its own copy in /etc)
[08:19] <andylockran> Yeah, ok. Thanks MartijnVdS.  Just trying to work out whether it's possible to have a multi-master DNS.
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: powerdns -- update the database, all servers using it update:)
[08:20] <andylockran> i.e if the master goes down, my slaves will run for 2 weeks without comms from the master.. but probably sensible to have to manually turn slave into master in that situation.
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> yes
[08:31] <daubers> Morning
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:37] <DJones> Good morning all
[08:37] <czajkowski> howdy dooody
[08:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> hey czajkowski - shame about wales eh ;-)
[08:46] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: if I were you I'd stay very quiet
[08:46] <czajkowski> be nice you know, if  we'd have had a ref who knew how to ref!
[08:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Grand Slam next weekend then eh?
[08:47] <czajkowski> for ye yes possible
[08:47] <czajkowski> your pass hasn't been revoked then
[08:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - in fact I confirmed it again yesterday.
[08:50] <czajkowski> however fair fecks to Italy for beating the French
[08:50] <czajkowski> love it when they get beaten
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> That was a great game indeed czajkowski - I could tell the French were upset by the ref we had on Sunday. But at least he had to go off injured...
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> The game changed once he was replaced.
[08:55] <czajkowski> it's frustrating how a game can be controlled over a ref and a call
[08:57] <DJones> No matter what sport it is, I always expect the Ref & linesmen to walk onto the pitch to the tune of "Three blind mice"
[09:21] <hoover> mornin
[09:24] <kazade> morning all
[09:37] <screen-x> morning :)
[09:40] <hoover> mornin ;-)
[09:57] <JamesTait> Happy Pi Day everyone! (In US format, at least...)
[09:57] <screen-x> :)
[09:58] <DJones> mhhhm Pie :)
[09:58] <JamesTait> DJones: I thought exactly the same thing. :D
[09:59] <DJones> JamesTait: :) As long as its proper pie, none of that wishy washy US style Pumpkin pie etc, give me a nice steak & kidney or apple pie
[09:59] <JamesTait> Mmmmm, steak. :)
[10:01] <DJones> Years ago, my mother-in-law bought apple pies from morrisons, got home heated them up for tea, served them up with custard as you'd expect, they bit into them and found they'd been mislabed, they should have been mince & onion
[10:01] <screen-x> DJones: /o\
[10:02] <screen-x> DJones: did you scrape off the custard and carry on?
[10:02] <DJones> screen-x: It was before I knew them, I think they scraped it off & took them back
[10:02] <DJones> I'd have carried on eating them, it all ends up in the same place
[10:03] <popey> Morning!
[10:04]  * czajkowski hugs popey 
[10:04] <czajkowski> how are all this lovely sunny morning
[10:04] <popey> Great!
[10:04] <czajkowski> fantastic
[10:04] <MooDoo> Fab thanks
[10:04] <czajkowski> sunny out, and we're making pancakes on the BBQ here by the canal
[10:04] <czajkowski> :D
[10:05] <MooDoo> czajkowski: meh!
[10:05] <DJones> screen-x: Just as funny was my 90 year old gran making a triffle, puts the jelly in, covers it with cling film to set, comes back later with the custard & couldn't see the cling film & had fogotten about it & poured the custard all over the cling film which then went all over the kitchen worktop
[10:05] <czajkowski> http://chrisjrob.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/installing-debian-on-a-thin-client-pc/
[10:06] <popey> hahah DJones
[10:06] <DJones> popey: :)
[10:07] <czajkowski> DJones: hah ha
[10:09] <X3N> morning
[10:10] <popey> yes, it is!
[10:18] <lloowen> Hi all! Can anyone recommend a good how to on setting up a chroot environment. I would like to jail Dropbox!
[10:20] <dogmatic69> why would you want to do that?
[10:24] <lloowen> Because I notices changes to my /etc/fstab by dropbox and I don't trust closed source software.
[10:26] <screen-x> Colleague asked to see paperwork from an air conditioning install a couple of years ago. I knew I had archived it all in a paper file, but couldn't find it. Eventually found it on said colleague's desk.
[10:26] <screen-x> lloowen: whats dropbox done to fstab?
[10:27] <lloowen> It has commented out my home partition settings and added its own variant. I like dropbox, but I think I would like it even better if I could run it in a chroot environment.
[10:28] <DJones> lloowen: Is your home partition running inside a dropbox folder?
[10:29] <DJones> or /home folder I should say
[10:30] <lloowen> My dropbox folder is in my /home/meuser/
[10:31] <hamitron> morning all
[10:31] <lloowen> If it can do that what else can Dropbox do?
[10:32] <screen-x> lloowen: whatever the account it runs as can do.
[10:32] <screen-x> lloowen: could write an apparmor profile if you are worried about it.
[10:32] <DJones> lloowen: I can't understand why dropbox would modify fstab, mine certainly hasn't, just checked & its set as normal with a uuid
[10:33] <screen-x> DJones: there are reports of dropbox adding user_xattr, which shouldnt be a problem.
[10:33] <DJones> screen-x: I've not come across that
[10:33] <lloowen> This is what it did.
[10:33] <lloowen> # Commented out by Dropbox
[10:33] <lloowen> # /dev/sda6       /home           reiserfs defaults        0       2
[10:33] <lloowen> /dev/sda6 /home reiserfs defaults,user_xattr 0 2
[10:34] <screen-x> DJones: no I haven't either, just been googling.
[10:34] <screen-x> lloowen: did it ask?
[10:35] <lloowen> No. If it asked me if it could change my fstab, I'd say no!
[10:35] <screen-x> that is cheeky.
[10:35] <DJones> Hmm, twitter works, irc works, email works, internet in any browser has stopped
[10:36] <screen-x> DJones: dns resolution?
[10:36] <DJones> screen-x: Looks like it, DNS lookup failed
[10:36] <SuperMatt> murderfs D:
[10:36] <lloowen> Does anyone know a good how-to on setting up chroot environments for applications?
[10:37] <screen-x> lloowen: could try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
[10:40] <hamitron> hmmmm
[10:49] <lloowen> I found this http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Jail_Dropbox But I'm not sure how to apply this to Ubuntu
[10:50] <DJones> screen-x: DNS fixed, just been looking up the user_xattr, seems to be something about file permissions on under some drive formats ext4 seems to be mentioned
[10:51] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[10:51] <czajkowski> Myrtti: you ok?
[10:51] <directhex> extended attributes, i.e. ACLs
[10:52] <Myrtti> czajkowski: other than tired beyond belief, yeah. D has sniffles though :-(
[10:52] <DJones> directhex: Yes, thats what I was reading, although went mostly over my head
[10:52] <Myrtti> downloading natty alpha to test on my old work laptop, this might be fun
[10:52] <directhex> DJones, allows permissions more sophisticated than "user, group, everyone" style
[10:53] <directhex> DJones, e.g. set write permissions for two groups, not just one
[10:53] <directhex> DJones, i hate to use the comparison, but windows has ACL permissions
[10:53] <DJones> directhex: Thanks, that explains it a bit better
[10:54] <danfish> wotcha - the better half's (dell) netbook has gone to the great electronic graveyard in the sky. What's good these days?
[10:54] <ali1234> pinetrail
[10:54] <danfish> requirements - ubuntu of course, light web browsing and email
[10:55] <czajkowski> Myrtti: I hope you dont lose sound
[10:55] <directhex> danfish, sounds like you need a netbook.
[10:55] <danfish> directhex: heh
[10:55] <Myrtti> czajkowski: which is why old work laptop, not the new ;-)
[10:56] <czajkowski> smart
[10:56] <DJones> Myrtti: Hope you don't lose grub, the two installs I've done of natty, grub failed on both of them
[10:56]  * czajkowski mutters
[10:57] <Myrtti> I'm happy if I'm able to run shred from the live session, that's my main goal
[10:57] <Myrtti> after that it's all a bonus
[10:59] <DJones> This looks like the bug I found, I was trying btrfs anyway https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/grub2/+bug/712029
[11:24] <livingdaylight> greetings
[11:24] <popey> Salutations Human!
[11:24] <livingdaylight> yes, I am a flesh and blood Human!
[11:25] <livingdaylight> with a living Soul!
[11:25] <livingdaylight> got a friend asking whether ubuntu is faster than xp?
[11:25] <livingdaylight> are there benchmark comparison studies/results?
[11:26] <popey> faster at what?
[11:27] <directhex> it gets over 2000 bungholiomarks!
[11:29] <livingdaylight> faster at what? hrmm?
[11:31] <screen-x> directhex: Are there any improvements in Natty? Should I expect a higher BHM rating on similar hardware?
[11:31] <dogmatic69> livingdaylight: ubuntu does not have BSOD's
[11:32] <popey> dogmatic69: it has kernel panic attacks though
[11:32] <dogmatic69> never seen one :)
[11:32]  * screen-x gives the kernel a paper bag to breath into
[11:32] <dogmatic69> lol
[11:32] <ali1234> i haven't seen windows bluescreen since about 2002 either
[11:33] <livingdaylight> his question is whether  ubuntu is faster in terms of running applications. Reaction time?
[11:33] <dogmatic69> ali1234: is that when you stopped using windows?
[11:33] <dogmatic69> ;)
[11:33] <screen-x> ali1234: uses windows on a monday to get an IP..
[11:33] <ali1234> no, i stopped using windows in about 2005
[11:33] <directhex> screen-x, slightly lower, but still better than a comparable 3d-flavoured ice lolly
[11:33] <dogmatic69> livingdaylight: ubuntu caches stuff properly, something that only came about in vista and maybe only works properly in win7
[11:33] <ali1234> i see other people's windows machines bluescreen a lot
[11:34] <dogmatic69> opening apps will be much faster#
[11:34] <screen-x> directhex: I find 2d ice lollies very disappointing
[11:34] <popey> pffft, everyone has 4D lollies now. you guys are crusty old folk
[11:35] <ali1234> that's because of bad hardware though
[11:35] <ali1234> or "herp derp i can overclock too!"
[11:35]  * popey feels old not knowing what "herp derp" means
[11:36]  * screen-x is reading UD
[11:36] <ali1234> i think you're just pretending not to know
[11:37] <s-fox> Hello.
[11:37] <DJones> Interesting, Carphone warehouse giving away Kindles with phones on 2 year contracts
[11:38] <Dom__> they were giving away a PS3 with a phone at one stage, DJones
[11:38] <dwatkins> that's better
[11:38] <DJones> dwatkins: True, but I wouldn't have gone for one of them, a Kindle would be a possibility
[11:39] <popey> ali1234: i have seen it used a lot, but dont know what it is
[11:39] <popey> a bit like 'hipster', dunno what one is
[11:39] <ali1234> you are so sheltered
[11:39] <popey> clearly :)
[11:40] <directhex> i'm looking forward to my contract ending :)
[11:41] <dwatkins> I think I'd rather have the money than be given a Kindle, especially as it's most likely not the one with free 3G.
[11:41]  * dwatkins got one for t'other half for christmas
[11:41] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: straight to ebay
[11:41] <gord> only wifi ones in the uk right?
[11:42] <DJones> dwatkins: 3h version says £15 when bundled with a phone
[11:42] <dwatkins> dogmatic69: yeah, you'd probably get a fairly good price for it
[11:42] <DJones> s/3h/3g
[11:42] <dwatkins> also, dogmatic69 - how are the flash player issues?
[11:45] <dogmatic69> dwatkins: who cares about flash :D
[11:45]  * dogmatic69 has an iPad
[11:45] <Martiini> find command .. someone please teach me .. I want to find files containing "java" in root filesystem excluding /media
[11:46] <dogmatic69> man find
[11:46] <dogmatic69> :)
[11:47] <nigelb> seeing dogmatic69 here confusing me what channel this is :p
[11:47] <nigelb> gah
[11:48] <popey> find / -name "*java*" -not -name "/media"
[11:50] <screen-x> s/-name/-path/
[11:50] <screen-x> (err but only the second instance)
[11:50] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: i played with garageband on the ipad yesterday...
[11:50] <Martiini> find . -name "*java*" -print ... is correct answer
[11:56] <dogmatic69> MooDoo: and?
[11:57] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: LOVED IT! :)
[11:57]  * dogmatic69 spends more...
[11:59] <dwatkins> MooDoo: thanks for reminding me, I need to make some custom ringtones with GarageBand
[11:59] <dwatkins> Morse code of peopel's names
[11:59] <dwatkins> *people's
[12:47] <andylockran> howdy howdy howdy
[12:47] <andylockran> howdy^9
[13:13] <SuperMatt> does anyone in here know if fedora can be updated to the latest alpha via command line, like ubuntu can?
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> No idea.. do Fedora support upgrading at all?
[13:13] <SuperMatt> I don't know :/
[13:14] <SuperMatt> I was hoping I might be able to update my box without any issues, but clearly not
[13:14] <SuperMatt> I think as long as my hard drives are partitioned nicely, I should be able to reinstall without issue
[13:15] <SuperMatt> ah good, I did partition sensibly \o/
[13:15] <DJones> SuperMatt: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumUpgradeFaq
[13:17] <SuperMatt> yeah, I think I'll re-install :P
[13:22] <screen-x> seems like there is some form of upgrade, but there are definately mixed messages as to whether it is recommended. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/14/html/Installation_Guide/ch19s02.html
[13:32] <mungojerry> can anyone recommend any techniques for blocking search engine bots that don't honour robots.txt files?
[13:34] <mungojerry> one bot from ukraine used 86% of the total bandwidth last motnh
[13:36] <screen-x> mungojerry: maybe denyhosts? something that reads the logs and picks out clients that are too persistent.
[13:39] <mungojerry> hmm. i'm not sure if the address is in denyhosts or not - the site should get spidered but ignore certain paths/filenames based upon robots file..some files are 100mb in size. i could write my own to grep the logs, or just run webaliser more frequently and use iptables i guess.
[13:41] <screen-x> mungojerry: denyhosts will add hosts to deny, based on rules you specify. (like fail2ban)
[13:41] <mungojerry> ahh i see..was thinking of another blacklisting service
[13:51] <gavin_lew> hello, having problems with a geforce gfx card, nvidia driver 270.30 and twinview , anyone have any advice, 1 monitor is connected by VGA and is recongised and displays video, the second monitor connected via DVI just says no input
[13:53] <screen-x> gavin_lew: have you setup both screens with nvidia-settings?
[13:53] <hamitron> gavin_lew: what graphics card?
[13:56] <gavin_lew> nvidia-settings set the screens up ok
[13:57] <gavin_lew> its a geforce 8400 gs
[13:57] <gavin_lew> it was working until i upgraded the gfx driver from 173 maybe to the latest
[13:57] <gavin_lew> the screen connected to the DVI port just doesnt get a video signal
[13:58] <hamitron> is there any reason you'd want to update to such a new driver?
[13:59] <gavin_lew> the older driver wasnt giving me 3d acceleration
[13:59] <screen-x> hamitron: 8400gs is supported in the latest drivers, so why not?
[13:59]  * directhex is suddenly suspicious. which cards are supported on 270.30?
[13:59] <hamitron> I recall someone else having a problem with the early 8000 series
[14:00] <screen-x> directhex: 270 or 260?
[14:00] <directhex> either. neither. whatever. is there a handy matrix for this stuff?
[14:01] <screen-x> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-260.19.44-driver.html
[14:01] <screen-x> not very handy though
[14:01] <screen-x> 260.19.44 includes 8 series 400 GS, 8800 GTS 512, 8800 Ultra, 8300 GS, 8600 GTS, 8800 GTX, 8300, 8400, 8200, 8100 / nForce 720a, 8400 SE, 8600 GS, 8800 GS, 8800 GT, 8800 GTS, 8500 GT
[14:01] <screen-x> hmm missed the first 8.
[14:02] <directhex> wow, it goes back as far as 6-series cards
[14:02] <directhex> and people complain
[14:02] <hamitron> I do
[14:02] <hamitron> ;/
[14:02] <gavin_lew> i think the issue is something to-do with DFP-0 (wasnt this introduced recently), the older drivers simply refered to the displays as CRT0/CRT1
[14:03] <directhex> it's always been DFP-0 for internal laptop screens, iirc
[14:03] <gavin_lew> this is just 2 lcd panels , no laptop
[14:04] <hamitron> which version of ubuntu has 270 drivers btw?
[14:04] <hamitron> 11.04?
[14:04] <directhex> none iirc. i'm guessing nvidia-installer breakage
[14:05] <directhex> wait, it's in natty now
[14:05] <directhex> wasn't last time i looked
[14:05] <directhex> nvidia-glx-185 | 270.29-0ubuntu3 | natty/restricted | amd64, i386
[14:06] <hamitron> !natty
[14:06] <hamitron> I don't do animal names ;)
[14:13] <gavin_lew> do we have any ideas? , can i paste the xorg.conf screen sections ?
[14:16] <mungojerry> gavin_lew: i had probs like this on an older card and older version of drivers..it was xorg.conf related
[14:16] <mungojerry> i am running intel on this machine so can't help, but if somebody has nvidia they should at least post their working xorg
[14:17] <gavin_lew> going from a 44" display down to 22" sucks :)
[14:17] <gavin_lew> looking at the xorg.conf it doesnt look right
[14:25] <ali1234> it was like last week
[14:25] <ali1234> 8400gs has serious problems with the latest driver
[14:26] <ali1234> serious = no output at all, even though it says it is working in the log
[14:26] <hamitron> ali1234: it was the 8400gs?
[14:26] <ali1234> yes
[14:26] <hamitron> ah :)
[14:27] <hamitron> interesting that the VGA output is working, and not the DVI
[14:27] <ali1234> it can affect VGA too
[14:27] <hamitron> k
[14:28]  * hamitron pets his geforce 2
[14:29] <gavin_lew> shall i just order a new gfx card? :)
[14:29] <hamitron> cheap cards from 6 series onwards seem to have a lot of trouble generally imo
[14:29] <gavin_lew> the only other spare we have here is the same as what i got :(
[14:29] <hamitron> gavin_lew: the 17x series works
[14:29] <hamitron> drivers I mean
[14:30] <dogmatic69> could anyone tell me what this is please
[14:30] <dogmatic69> "sshd[10001]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for 217-155-37-221.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk [217.155.37.221] failed - POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT!"
[14:30] <dogmatic69> in the logs ...
[14:34] <jpds> dogmatic69: http://www.electrictoolbox.com/reverse-mapping-possible-break-in-ssh/
[14:34] <jpds> There's a whole load of google results for "reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo".
[14:36] <dogmatic69> tx
[14:39] <DJones> scoundrel50: Ping
[14:45] <scoundrel50> Oh, that is strange, been trying to get on here for ages, and when I enter the #ubuntu-uk in the chanel box, press enter nothing happens
[14:45] <scoundrel50> can see you now though, thanks. :)
[14:45] <scoundrel50> I just wondered, I want to change .JPG to.jpg I used to have a command to do that but can remember what it was. Does somebody know what command I would need?
[14:45] <jpds> scoundrel50: mv ?
[14:45] <DJones> scoundrel50: Glad you've made it anyway
[14:45] <scoundrel50> Its to change all the endings in the folder
[14:46] <gavin_lew> mv *.JPG *.jpg should do it
[14:46] <gavin_lew> ?
[14:46] <gavin_lew> hmm how about a 512mb Palit GT 220 800mhz gddr2 48 core
[14:46] <dutchie> gavin_lew: no, that won't work
[14:46] <gavin_lew> :(
[14:46] <dutchie> you want the rename command
[14:47] <screen-x> gavin_lew: test that on some files you dont like
[14:47] <directhex> gavin_lew, that will kill almost all your files
[14:47] <dutchie> so rename 's/\.JPG$/.jpg/' *.JPG
[14:47] <gavin_lew> ooh sorry :(
[14:48] <dutchie> worth checking with the -n option first
[14:48] <directhex> gavin_lew, it will expand to something like "mv 1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG *.jpg", thereby rename 1.JPG to *.jpg, then renaming 2.JPG to *.jpg (losing the earlier file), the n renaming 3.JPG to *.jpg (ditto)
[14:48] <screen-x> ooh mv a* b* doesnt do what I expected
[14:49] <mungojerry> scoundrel50: thunar file manager has a good bulk renamer as part of the gui
[14:49] <screen-x> I expected it to move all the files onto the last file, but instead it sensibly complains about it not being a dir.
[14:52] <scoundrel50> mungojerry: hi, I tried using that, but it freezes laptop. Using that other command, just changed the whole lot in the folder
[14:54] <scoundrel50> its not moving from one to another its changing the .JPG to .jpg, I will give that command a try, dutchie, it was a different command to the one I had before, but I'll give it a try
[14:58] <dogmatic69> got someone trying to hack my server
[14:58] <dogmatic69> persistent guy as well
[15:00] <mungojerry> dogmatic69: often it's a script. i found one that had got into our sytem via a weak password, then had a dictionary list to test against various servers, sending all successful info to an irc channel
[15:00] <mungojerry> fail2ban should be a good place to start
[15:00] <dogmatic69> its a Korean ip
[15:01] <dogmatic69> got ssh only login...
[15:01] <mungojerry> we get a lot from chinese universities and also korean too..great firewall of china doesn't do a good job of keeping them out
[15:01] <dogmatic69> yip its korean edu something ip
[15:01] <screen-x> dogmatic69: denyhosts/fail2ban are good, but be sure to whitelist yourself :)
[15:01] <scoundrel50> ok, that worked thank you.
[15:02] <mungojerry> dogmatic69: however the script that i saw was then using the compromised account to run the script against 100s of other hosts
[15:02] <dogmatic69> 114.70.60.247 is the ip
[15:02] <dogmatic69> phpinfo showing there...
[15:02] <mungojerry> so the originating IP may just be a compromised account
[15:03] <mungojerry> you can send a mail to the abuse address, and the university should investgate
[15:03] <dogmatic69> could be
[15:05] <czajkowski> DJones: TheOpenSourcerer http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/mar/14/wales-ireland-six-nations-2011
[15:11] <andylockran> anyone give me advice on how to enable coredumps in apache (caveat is that I'm using CentOS) http://blog.blacknode.net/2009/07/enable-core-dumps-with-apache-rhel5/
[15:11] <DJones> czajkowski: I'm getting 404 page not found with that link
[15:12] <czajkowski> DJones: click again
[15:12] <czajkowski> working here fine
[15:14] <DJones> czajkowski: Tried 3 times, same thing each time
[15:14] <czajkowski> DJones: it clearly doesnt like you
[15:14] <czajkowski> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/mar/14/wales-ireland-six-nations-2011
[15:14] <czajkowski> clock again
[15:14] <DJones> czajkowski: That works
[15:14] <dogmatic69>  works for me
[15:15] <czajkowski> DJones: special
[15:15] <DJones> Yep, I've worked out why it didn't work
[15:16] <DJones> The window size I've got irssi in was exactly the same size as the length of the line & putty/irssi was treating the timestamp on the next line as part of the url
[15:18] <DJones> czajkowski: Although they get the appology, they never change results though, do they have video ref decisions for the 6 nations?
[15:18] <czajkowski> aye
[15:18] <czajkowski> if they were unawarded the try we'd have won
[15:18] <dogmatic69> anyone here know how i can test git hooks/
[15:18] <dogmatic69> ?*
[15:19] <DJones> czajkowski: Very true, but I they would never backdate that decision
[15:19] <czajkowski> nope they wont
[15:19] <czajkowski> we just all know wales shouldnt be 7 pts more
[15:22] <dutchie> czajkowski: to be fair, if the touch judge hadn't been so sure, they probably would have gone to the TMO
[15:23] <czajkowski> wont go to TMO unless it's a score
[15:23] <dutchie> it was a score, no?
[15:27] <czajkowski> fast pass line out
[15:28] <mungojerry> SNORE
[15:29] <czajkowski> mungojerry: you ok there ?
[15:29] <czajkowski> sorry if we're boting you
[15:29]  * hamitron cuts mungojerry's throat out with a power drill
[15:29] <czajkowski> *boring
[15:29] <mungojerry> it's ok...i meant to spend less time on irc this week. talking about rugby is keeping me away :)
[15:30] <mungojerry> only just noticed the !topic
[15:30] <czajkowski> mungojerry: it's a community loc channel we do talk about lots of things beside Ubuntu
[15:30] <mungojerry> of course :)
[15:30] <czajkowski> *loco
[15:31] <hamitron> that is discrimination against people with normal shaped balls :/
[15:31] <czajkowski> less snoring so, it's kinda rude
[15:31] <czajkowski> :)
[15:32] <hamitron> 1 more match to win, then it is all over mungojerry
[15:32] <hamitron> guess we are both looking forward to that
[15:32] <czajkowski> hamitron: and then september for the world cup
[15:32] <czajkowski> and we can go back to the H cup also
[15:33] <hamitron> well, a break is good
[15:33] <hamitron> too much distraction from proper work
[15:33] <czajkowski> 9th April kicks off again
[15:33] <screen-x> mungojerry: (as requested last week) GO AWAY!
[15:34] <mungojerry> :)
[15:34] <mungojerry> wondered who i mentioned that to.
[15:34] <mungojerry> however i'm having a bad day today...lost of drilling noise in the building meaning i can't work
[15:34] <hamitron> tbh, the 6 nations is the one I like to see most
[15:34] <screen-x> :(
[15:36]  * hamitron sighs
[15:36] <hamitron> need to switch computer cabling on my desk
[15:36] <hamitron> but it is real effort unplugging all these machines and re-working it all
[15:37] <screen-x> mungojerry: I have screaming kids outside my window (nursery). I keep my window shut as long as possible but sometimes its just too warm.
[15:37] <screen-x> hamitron: dust while your at it ;-)
[15:37] <mungojerry> screen-x: warm?
[15:37] <hamitron> screen-x: I intend to
[15:37] <screen-x> mungojerry: in summer
[15:38] <mungojerry> my place of work has been a building site for > 2yrs :(
[15:38] <hamitron> :/
[15:38] <mungojerry> including asbestos removal
[15:39] <mungojerry> most days it is drilling and chainsawing of concrete
[15:39] <mungojerry> and fire drills :(
[15:39] <hamitron> cutting holes with fire ftw
[15:39] <mungojerry> i mean fire alarms :P
[15:39] <hamitron> not nearly as good :/
[15:40] <screen-x> a fire drill does sound quite like a light saber
[15:40] <hamitron> patent pending!
[15:40] <hamitron> ;)
[15:41] <hamitron> hmmm
[15:41] <hamitron> how many comps on 1 desk is too many?
[15:41] <mungojerry> 11
[15:42] <screen-x> hamitron: when desk breaks
[15:42] <hamitron> I have removed my waste bins to make room for more
[15:42] <hamitron> but now it seems I may have to remove my legs
[15:42] <screen-x> hamitron: or maybe when you start wearing noise cancelling headphones
[15:43] <hamitron> yeh well, I do go for quiet :)
[15:43] <hamitron> but tbh, this i3 is amazing, dunno why I thought I may need more power
[15:44] <hamitron> I reckon I could get most things done on this one machine
[15:44] <hamitron> unfortunately, that would mean not using linux as I my main OS
[15:45] <hamitron> so doubt I will cut back that far
[15:45] <mungojerry> can you not stash them in the loft and run rdesktop?
[15:46] <hamitron> no
[15:46] <hamitron> if I was going to be happy with remote stuff, I'd just run virtual machines
[15:46] <hamitron> :/
[15:47] <mungojerry> Q: is it possible to do greppy type stuff in ooffice calc
[15:47] <hamitron> like scripting?
[15:47] <mungojerry> i have a list of names and userid's on alternating lines, and i want to split them into separate columns
[15:51] <mungojerry> as usual i've ended up saving as csv and doing grep
[15:53] <shauno> <3 csv.  that's been the solution to all my excel woes too
[15:56] <bigcalm> Ello peeps :)
[15:56] <popey> yo yo yo
[15:57] <s-fox> o/
[15:57] <bigcalm> What am I missing out on?
[15:58] <hamitron> some good stuff
[15:58]  * popey wonders when ipad2 goes on pre-order :)
[15:58] <screen-x> bigcalm: hamitron deciding whether to remove his legs to make space for more computers
[15:58] <bigcalm> Driving to Scotland and back for the weekend isn't advisable. There are a lot of stupid drivers out there
[15:58] <hamitron> popey: you giving me your ipad 1?
[15:59] <czajkowski> popey: march 27th ?
[15:59] <czajkowski> popey: ask filbert
[15:59] <screen-x> hamitron: nah, the cats will use that to read ichc
[15:59] <hamitron> ichc?
[15:59] <screen-x> to the google-mobile!
[16:02] <hamitron> cup of tea and some cakes are calling me
[16:02] <hamitron> bbl
[16:02]  * mungojerry noticed another person turning into a fulll apple person the other day. didn't realise that ideology played no part in OS choice whatsoever
[16:03] <bigcalm> For some it does, for many is't just a tool
[16:03] <mungojerry> i'm thinking of ryan paul, gwibber dev, who, unless his twitter account has been hijacked, has turned into an apple drone within space of 1 week
[16:04]  * bigcalm ponders getting a mac
[16:04] <DJones> bigcalm: Just get an umbrella
[16:04] <shauno> mungojerry: that happens.  something about turning your computer on, and being able to just get on with it instead of filing bugs, is rather infectious ;)
[16:05] <mungojerry> ..and leaving your principles and preferences outside :(
[16:06] <DaveMorris> quick question.  What's the default key binding for switching tabs which are open in a gnome terminal?
[16:07] <bigcalm> alt+f keys
[16:07] <bigcalm> iirc
[16:07] <mungojerry> ctrl-page down/up
[16:07] <ali1234> lack of a public bug tracking system is not the same as a bug free operating system, and mac os has plenty
[16:07] <DaveMorris> cheers mungojerry
[16:08] <bigcalm> It can't have bugs, it looks so shiney!
[16:08] <shauno> ali1234: when I run into one that's a "this computer is unusable" showstopper, I'll let you know
[16:08] <ali1234> if mac "just works" for you then i would hazard a guess that you spend 100% of your time using a computer checking your twitter and facebook
[16:08] <mungojerry> shauno: itunes?
[16:08] <ali1234> which probably exlpains about the gwibber guy
[16:09] <shauno> mungojerry: I was thinking more like not being able to use my trackpad on ubuntu anymore.
[16:09] <mungojerry> ali1234: there's something strange about the way he suddenly flipped into being a fullon apple dude
[16:10] <ali1234> like they say on /. "and nothing of value was lost"
[16:10] <mungojerry> https://twitter.com/segphault/status/45937632961769472
[16:12] <mungojerry> what's this #dickbar thing everyone is talking about?
[16:12] <mungojerry> by everyone i mean people on twitter
[16:12] <mungojerry> popey just mentioned it to
[16:12] <mungojerry> o
[16:13] <gord> certain process has been eating up too much cpu on my server - so i have gone all paranoid with top constantly watching it with an always on top terminal... its driving me crazy
[16:13] <ali1234> haha i do that all the time
[16:14] <mungojerry> conky?
[16:14] <shauno> mungojerry: a bizarre UI element in twitter's mobile client, that's behavior earned the moniker; http://www.flickr.com/photos/scriptingnews/5502555362/
[16:14] <ali1234> no, top in a terminal
[16:15] <mungojerry> gord: what was the process
[16:15] <mungojerry> shauno: cheers...looks like a similar experience to browsing omgubuntu ...lots of dickbar elements on their page too
[16:15] <Azelphur> anyone else having issues with google images where it doesn't load the image after you click on it, you just get a white page?
[16:15] <ali1234> probably one of: firefox, flash, java, or slocate-updatedb
[16:16] <Azelphur> I have to keep viewing the page source and extracting the URL to use google images, very irritating
[16:17] <mungojerry> twitter want to do away with 3rd party apps...there are better business models than that
[16:19] <gord> mungojerry, deluge
[16:19] <popey> mungojerry: its a bar that is displayed in the official twitter client
[16:20] <ali1234> "No one yet knows why people use Twitter"
[16:20] <ali1234> i do
[16:20] <ali1234> it's because they like to talk but don't like to listen
[16:20] <popey> mungojerry: I think you're making some assumptions about Ryan
[16:20] <popey> mungojerry: there's no way you can know how long it's taken him to decide to switch to OSX
[16:21] <ali1234> long enough to develop gwibber for one thing
[16:21] <mungojerry> popey: that's true, but he implies inthe previous tweet that he was fed up of infighting
[16:21] <mungojerry> of recent weeks
[16:21] <popey> those two things may be unrelated
[16:21] <popey> i know I've pondered about switching to OSX
[16:21] <popey> for about a year
[16:21] <bigcalm> One could say that there is infighting within the computer user world
[16:22] <ali1234> what i don't understand is this:
[16:22] <mungojerry> popey: how much time do you spend on OS x?
[16:22] <ali1234> people say "Linux will never be ready for consumers, I'm switching to X instead." - or in otherwords, "I am a consumer. TROLOLOLO"
[16:23] <popey> dunno, never timed it
[16:23] <ali1234> but what these people have completely failed to do is explain how "Linux for consumers" would benefit me in any way.
[16:23] <mungojerry> linux is better now than it ever has been , in spite of religious wars
[16:23] <dwatkins> What on earth is "linux for consumers"?
[16:23] <shauno> so you'll deride them for not understanding that your choice is what works for you; yet completely fail to understand that their choice is what works for them
[16:25] <ali1234> why am i deriding them?
[16:25] <mungojerry> shauno: who me? i oroginally raised the issue because i was surprised at linux users who would switch seemingly happily to apple without major ideological issues
[16:25] <ali1234> i do not deride them, and nor do i attemp to persaude them that linux in fact, is actually what they want
[16:25] <mungojerry> and i'm no stallman to be sure
[16:25] <shauno> linux is for consumers.  ubuntu especially so.  for me, turning problem-solving into "file a bug" meant 'the system' was no better than apple radar.
[16:26] <popey> mungojerry: i probably spend an hour or two a day on osx
[16:26] <popey> mungojerry: 8 hours a day on windows
[16:27] <ali1234> yet i still constantly hear from trolls about how "linux will never be ready for the desktop and you're an idiot for using it" or "if you don't help us to make the most easiest to use linux distro evar, you're a horrible greedy person for not sharing."
[16:31] <dwatkins> ali1234: I hear that too, one person in particular points-out that everything that's associated with Linux is only ever going to be "beta software"
[16:32] <ali1234> yup. what happens is that someone says "linux sux, i'm getting a mac"
[16:32]  * directhex is e-famous!
[16:32] <mungojerry> dwatkins: except that i use ubuntu 12 hrs a day at home and work and my productivity is huge when compared with previous jobs using windows
[16:32] <ali1234> and then a group of people comes out of the woodwork and points to this and says "see, linux sux! you guys need to make it more easier to use, or no one will use it."
[16:33] <shauno> last time I paid any real attention to the community, it was rife with windows-bashing, which was usually shushed away with a !factoid that now escapes me
[16:33] <ali1234> but this is roughly equivalent to a guy realising that screwdrivers do not make good hammers, and getting a hammer instead, and then all the screwdriver salesmen saying "we need to make our screwdrivers more like hammers" while the engineers look at them and roll their eyes
[16:33] <dwatkins> mungojerry: I used to find that my productivity was much higher with linux, but now I work in a job where there's a lot of MS Office integration, so I'm not sure that would be the case here.
[16:33] <shauno> so I'm curious, has the community done an about-turn on whether *-bashing is productive? or why does the apple-bashing get a free ride
[16:34] <mungojerry> depends whether it's bashing for technical or ideological reasons :P
[16:34] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CohQXD00Vs
[16:35] <directhex> shauno, it's nice to poke fanboys. and there are no fanboys like apple fanboys
[16:35] <directhex> shauno, whereas nobody's an MS fanboy, merely more tollerant of it than the average
[16:35] <mungojerry> a lot of apple fanboys i know irl are like ex-smokers
[16:36] <mungojerry> suddenly they are steve jobs biggest evangelist , and then buy i-everything
[16:38] <gord> apple have a lot of integration, if you use apple products - other apple products tend to work best with what you already have
[16:38] <mungojerry> integration or lock-in?
[16:38] <gord> lock-in is what people who have an agenda might call it
[16:38] <ali1234> integration
[16:39] <ali1234> integration is when your ipod works with your mac
[16:39] <ali1234> lock-in is when your zune won't work with your mac
[16:39] <dwatkins> I have an Eee 901 and a Macbook Pro, the Macbook Pro has never had any hardware stop working with a software update, whereas the Eee tends to lose wifi or sound when Ubuntu gets updated.
[16:40]  * popey notes the use of "fanboy" invalidates much of mungojerry's argument
[16:40] <ali1234> i have an acer which is exactly the same chipset and the eee and i have never had a problem with it except with the wifi card, which i now believe is actually physically broken
[16:40] <ali1234> since i got an identical card and it works fine
[16:41] <directhex> ali1234, zunes work with macs now :p
[16:41] <gord> zunes still exist?
[16:41] <ali1234> directhex: it was just an example, i don't know what works with zune or ipod or whatnot, i would not buy any such branded player ever
[16:41] <directhex> gord, windows phone 7 uses zune protocol
[16:42] <ali1234> i will only ever buy the unbranded chinese stuff, you know, the stuff that works with anything and costs 10% of what the branded stuff costs
[16:42] <directhex> fsvo "works"
[16:42] <dwatkins>  like an eyepad?
[16:42] <gord> the whole mac integration aspect works both ways as well, for example i choose not to buy apple products because i'm not confident it will work with my setup
[16:42] <ali1234> it's pretty ironic when i trust unbranded chinese junk over large american companies like apple and microsoft
[16:43] <directhex> nothing like a sunny plaastation to take your mind off things
[16:43] <mungojerry> ali1234: are you actually joking?
[16:43] <ali1234> no, i am completely 100% serious
[16:43] <popey> Popstation!
[16:43] <mungojerry> you should try the korean stuff, .. cowon and iriver tend to be excellent quality
[16:43] <popey> i loved my iriver
[16:43] <gord> *shudder* popstation
[16:43] <directhex> ali1234, korean brands - iriver and cowon, for example - tend to work with everything, but are significanly less shitty than chinese equivalents. they even have working websites and firmware updates!
[16:43] <ali1234> wow
[16:44] <popey> i still use my iriver nearly daily
[16:44] <popey> about 4 years later
[16:44] <directhex> wifey currently has a cowon
[16:44] <mungojerry> my iriver got nicked in a burglary..the insurance company wanted me to replace with an ipod, but i got a cowon iaudio instead
[16:44] <mungojerry> i've never knowingly charged my cowon
[16:44] <directhex> iriver these days have MUCH better UX. but both are reasonable
[16:45] <mungojerry> battery life is 30 or 60 hours i dunno. occasionally i plug in to copy podcasts etc but only for 10-15 minutes...it's a miracle that i never run out of battery
[16:45] <popey> however I do enjoy the podcasting bit of ipad/iphone/itunes
[16:45] <mungojerry> gpodder ftw
[16:46] <popey> i like that i can listen on one device, and carry on elsewhere
[16:46] <popey> and it knows where I got to
[16:47] <shauno> that always catches me off-guard
[16:48] <xapel> is it possible to open mpp files with Gnome planner?
[16:48] <gord> music still pretty much sucks on android, annoys me. all the different music players seem to use the same api's or something, thus have the same features. which mean that none of them can figure out the difference between my podcasts and music =\
[16:49] <mungojerry> gord: tbh i never use my android for music because of battery life
[16:50] <gord> i get waaaay too much battery life on my android phone these days, so i'm always looking for more ways to use it!
[16:50] <ali1234> well, that's because they do all use the same API...
[16:51] <ali1234> because apparently ODMs want to differentiate through the "user experience" - which in effect means slap a new skin on the same old rubbish
[16:51] <ali1234> this is another reason i quite windows years ago
[16:52] <ali1234> once they started bundling media player and all the players started to use it... well, you were guaranteed that your file won't play in any of them, because they all use the same set of codecs
[16:52] <ali1234> now this pox has been brought to linux with the help of gstreamer
[16:54] <directhex> ali1234, how many times should devs be expected to write a wavpack codec?
[16:55] <ali1234> directhex: as many times as it takes for them to write one that actually works?
[16:56] <ali1234> but the real issue here is not code reuse but the way it is handled
[16:56] <shauno> I just don't find apple & ubuntu that different anymore.  lp/radar are both a black hole of !care, you're a heretic if you question direction, etc.
[16:59] <shauno> bug 203649 was funny.  "is this still a problem?".  no, because we decided ubuntu wasn't up to the task a year ago, while the bug sat as 'new' for 10 months
[16:59] <ali1234> write that on the bug report
[16:59] <ali1234> i would :)
[17:01] <ali1234> at least that way it can be closed lol
[17:02] <shauno> wasn't my bug; no idea what the OP ended up doing
[17:02] <shauno> just that our instance was out in the field on rhel by then
[17:03] <ali1234> i actually enjoy a bit of bug-ping-pong
[17:03] <ali1234> if i don't hear anything in a while i just start rambling in the comments :)
[17:07] <shauno> I just completely forgot about it until I got that update a year later.  the box was in missouri by then
[17:08] <ali1234> yeah
[17:08] <ali1234> same happens to me quite often
[17:08] <shauno> I think it's in paris atm.  I'm pretty proud of that one's legs :)
[17:09] <ali1234> i wish launchpad itself worked properly in firefox
[17:09] <ali1234> i mean they managed to fix slashdot
[17:09] <ali1234> can't imagine a more horrible fate than debugging slashcode
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: debugging procmail
[17:11] <directhex> debugging sendmail
[17:12] <ali1234> lol, neither of those are even written in perl, therefore your arguments are invalid
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: apt-get source procmail.. it's WORSE than perl
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and I write Perl for a living ;)
[18:02] <s-fox> Goodbye.
[18:43] <szymon_g> hi
[18:46] <PalaPad> Hey
[19:01] <AlanBell> evening all
[19:02] <PalaPad> Evening
[19:07] <Myrtti> well, trying out natty for about half an hour kinda solidified that I'll keep my fingers out of Ubuntu :-( xubuntu ftw
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> yeah I've been considering that
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> classic  gnome isn't too bad atm though
[19:08] <Myrtti> I've not used Ubuntu for years apart from on my sisters computer
[19:08] <PalaPad__> Sorry for disconnects am on the train
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> PalaPad: screen + irssi ftw
[19:09] <PalaPad> Yeah cept I am on my iPad and don't have an ssh client
[19:09] <czajkowski>  and /ignore joins/parts/quits
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: yeah I do that as well
[19:10] <PalaPad> Although I bet there is an ssh client out there somewhere, I will check when I get to my hotel
[19:21] <Azelphur> I'm trying to think of what superstructure to build on minecraft
[19:22] <Azelphur> I have like 10,000 cobblestone XD
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> a huge tower, 1 block wide
[19:23] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that's epic pointless :D
[19:23] <PalaPad> I might have to check out mine craft seems very popular
[19:24] <daubers> Azelphur: A giant top ha
[19:24] <daubers> t
[19:24] <daubers> Or an elephant
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Like the rest of Minecraft? ;)
[19:24] <Azelphur> argh, I'm getting tonnes of packet loss
[19:24] <Azelphur> 216.66.32.54 (hurricane electric) is dropping like 80% for me
[19:25] <Azelphur> o.O
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> I was having ipv6 problems with bytemark earlier
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> HE does v6 tunnels
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> something going on on the v6 net?
[19:25] <Azelphur> yea
[19:25] <Azelphur> god knows why my ipv4 route to a datacenter goes through he though
[19:31] <dogmatic69_> anyone know why tab auto complete is would not work on my server?
[19:37] <daubers> ahhhhh tea
[19:38] <Azelphur> anyone else care to run mtr azelphur.com and see if you are getting large amounts of packet loss on one of the jumps?
[19:39] <AlanBell> nope, no loss from here
[19:39] <daubers> Azelphur: I get some
[19:39] <Azelphur> it just hates me personally then :(
[19:39] <Azelphur> daubers: from 216.66.32.54?
[19:39] <daubers> Azelphur:
[19:39] <daubers> Azelphur: 10gigabitethernet7-4.core1.nyc4.he.net <- There
[19:40] <Azelphur> yea, mines lost inside he as well
[19:40] <Azelphur> irritating
[19:41] <directhex> the net is screwy tonight
[19:41] <directhex> LINX is down
[19:42] <Azelphur> fun
[19:42] <ali1234> yup, getting loss on linx from here
[19:54] <shauno> wonder if that's why I keep dropping off
[19:54] <shauno> (noticed I wasn't the only one on bitfolk to do so)
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> directhex: ah.. so I wasn't seeing things when v6 went down earlier :)
[20:43] <Paladine> hehe ssh'd into my irssi session :)
[20:43] <Paladine> from my ipad
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> yay
[20:57] <HazRPG> hi ho
[20:57] <AlanBell> hi ho
[20:58] <HazRPG> how's everyone doing this evening
[20:59] <HazRPG> AlanBell: \o
[21:19] <bigcalm> Waking a hibernating ubuntu laptop takes forever :(
[21:20] <jpds> boot speed is faster.
[21:25] <oly> just wondering anyone using unity notice how annoying the interface is on duel screens, or has some one found a way to enable the bar on both desktops ?
[21:26] <oly> the current bar does not seem to distinguish between the focused apps so you have no way of telling what it belongs to
[21:37] <dogmatic69_> bigcalm: i cant run updates after sleep/hibernate
[21:37] <dogmatic69_> completely messes up
[21:45] <daubers> I so want one of these! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNN4Oo0KhZo&feature=player_embedded
[21:46] <shauno> heh, I like it .. "where did you come up with the idea?  err .. pub"
[21:47] <daubers> Seriously, if I'm evil this year, do you think Santa will get me one?
[21:52] <HazRPG> haha pub indeed! :P
[21:52] <HazRPG> all good ideas begin and end in the pub ;)
[22:03] <AlanBell> any more people want to influence the date of the quiz?
[22:03] <AlanBell> http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p <- closing that tomorrow
[22:03] <AlanBell> Saturday 16th April is looking good so far
[22:05] <dogmatic69_> anyone know if i can diff a local file with a remote one?
[22:05] <bigcalm> Pipe cat over ssh and diff?
[22:21] <dogmatic69_> does pipe work backwards?
[22:22] <dogmatic69_> like last step first
[22:25]  * dogmatic69_ 's mind explodes
[22:27] <Daviey> dogmatic69, http://pb.daviey.com/V5JB/raw/ ?
[22:28] <dogmatic69_> he, you make it look easy :)
[22:28] <dogmatic69_> thanks, trying it now
[22:29] <Daviey> dogmatic69, TBH, the cat isn't even needed...
[22:29] <Daviey> ssh 10.0.0.3 diff - remote.txt < local.txt
[22:29] <dogmatic69_> looks like its hanging..
[22:30] <dogmatic69_> cat ssh bumblebee .bashrc spits out the file fine... doing the diff is just sitting there
[22:30] <dogmatic69_> ssh bumblebee diff - .bashrc < .bashrc
[22:31] <dogmatic69_> oh, it worked... just took ages
[22:32] <ali1234> i would run diff locally, it would be faster
[22:33] <dogmatic69_> it worked now, but does not help me :/
[22:33] <ali1234> ssh 10.0.0.1 cat remote.txt | diff local.txt -
[22:33] <ali1234> something like that anyway
[22:34] <dogmatic69_> ssh bumblebee diff - .bashrc < .bashrc works
[22:34] <ali1234> yeah
[22:34] <dogmatic69_> trying to figure out why tab complete does not work
[22:34] <ali1234> but it runs diff on the remote so you transfer local to the remote, and then transfer the diff back again
[22:34] <dogmatic69_> works for the first param, not after that
[22:36] <dogmatic69_> figured out this much so far, apt-<tab> gives a list of possible options, sudo apt-<tab> does nothing
[22:36] <ali1234> yeah sudo used to do that on old ubuntu versions
[22:36] <ali1234> was annoying
[22:37] <ali1234> i dunno how they fixed it
[22:37] <dogmatic69_> it works on another server with the same version
[22:37] <dogmatic69_> i think i botched something
[22:37] <dogmatic69_> been like this for ages, just sick of it now
[22:37] <daubers> dogmatic69_: checked your global bashrc?
[22:38] <dogmatic69_> works local, works on aws, does not work on slicehost
[22:38] <dogmatic69_> daubers: global?
[22:38] <daubers> dogmatic69_: /etc/bashrc
[22:38] <daubers> also worth check /etc/bash_completion and the file in /etc/bash_completion.d/
[22:41] <dogmatic69_> daubers: server does not have /etc/bash_completion
[22:41] <dogmatic69_> :)
[22:41] <dogmatic69_> that could be it
[22:46] <dogmatic69_> daubers: almost
[22:46] <daubers> dogmatic69_: Works for some and not for others?
[22:46] <dogmatic69_> i can now do sudo apt-<tab> but then adding ins<tab> does nothing
[22:46] <dogmatic69_> ye
[22:47] <daubers> You might need to resource the bash conf, I'd just log out/in again
[22:47] <daubers> I really need to decomission my nslu2's
[22:47] <daubers> getting far too slow :(
[22:47] <dogmatic69_> closing ssh connection ~= loging in/out right?
[22:48] <daubers> dogmatic69_: Yup
[22:48] <dogmatic69_> daubers: well now i can do sudo apt-<tab>
[22:48] <dogmatic69_> but the ins<tab> for install still not working
[22:49] <daubers> dogmatic69_: checked in the bash
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> also like apt-get install php5-<tab> does nothing
[22:49] <daubers> checked in the bas_completion.d folder for the apt-get file?
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> i did a diff of server vs local and they are the same
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> maybe i should just copy paste bash_completion.d/ to the server?
[22:50] <daubers> Ummm... I have no idea what impact that may have
[22:50] <dogmatic69_> server:
[22:50] <dogmatic69_>  /etc/bash_completion.d$ ls  -> axi-cache  debconf  git  initramfs-tools  insserv
[22:50] <dogmatic69_> local has +- 50
[22:51] <dogmatic69_> looks like it has not been adding/installing these things the whole time
[22:52] <dogmatic69_> i see, just adding them might show commands in <tab> that are not actually installed?
[22:52] <Darael> That seems entirely plausible, yes.
[22:53] <dogmatic69_> :/
[22:53] <dogmatic69_> so why would this silly thing not be adding them along the way
[22:54] <dogmatic69_> ive never disabled something
[22:54] <dogmatic69_> maybe the image slicehost uses for the install is wonky / trimmed down
[22:55]  * daubers heads to bed
[23:00] <dogmatic69_> daubers: tx for the help
[23:00] <robin273>  i need help with installing stuff, i get this when i try to sudo apt-get install anything: http://mibpaste.com/Nm2bW1
[23:03] <Azelphur> robin273: you should pastebin the contents of /tmp/alsa-driver-linuxant.3610.log too
[23:05] <robin273> All that's in there is this:
[23:05] <robin273> make: *** No rule to make target `mrextraproper'.  Stop.
[23:06] <HazRPG> hmm, I just found an interesting site
[23:06] <HazRPG> www.ponoko.com
[23:06] <HazRPG> apparently they'll make things out of designs you have
[23:06] <HazRPG> seems pretty cheap too
[23:08] <robin273> ?4\
[23:08] <robin273> woops
[23:08] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: they just got something like this http://www.makerbot.com/
[23:09] <ali1234> robin273: that package alsa-driver-linuxant failed to install properly, now it tries to rerun the postinst script any time you install anything
[23:09] <dogmatic69_> they even using arduino
[23:09] <ali1234> robin273: suggest purging it and reinstalling
[23:09] <ali1234> for rapid prototyping: emachineshop.com
[23:09] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: nice!
[23:10] <robin273> Might anyone be able to help me with my problem?
[23:10] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: you into a bit of hardware hacking?
[23:10] <HazRPG> yeah
[23:10]  * dogmatic69_ plays with arduino when time allows
[23:10] <HazRPG> I've never done it before, because I always thought it would be too costly to make boards and cases
[23:10] <dogmatic69_> ye
[23:11] <dogmatic69_> that makerbot(arduino) thing has changed the playing field
[23:11] <HazRPG> but seems if you know the right companies, it doesn't have to be as costly
[23:11] <ali1234> there is a trick for making circuit boards
[23:11] <HazRPG> ali1234: etching your own?
[23:11] <ali1234> you just need a laser printer and some inkjet photo paper
[23:11] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: im planning to build a nice 60w co2 laser
[23:11] <ali1234> and the etching stuff
[23:11] <ali1234> it doesn't work very well but it's passable for simple stuff
[23:11] <HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, I was recently looking into that
[23:12] <ali1234> for a case, you just go maplins and buy a project box :)
[23:12] <dogmatic69_> eh, maplins likes my bank card to much...
[23:12] <HazRPG> ali1234: maplins also sell polymorph (I think that's what its called) - where you can essentially mould your own case
[23:13] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: co2 laser?
[23:13] <HazRPG> its a laser that can cut through air?
[23:13] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: http://www.butlersheetmetal.com/tinbasherblog/diy-co2-laser-cutter-for-sheet-metal_645.html
[23:13] <dogmatic69_> something like that
[23:13] <ali1234> 3d printers aren't really much use except for printing out a mini statue of your wow character
[23:14] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: nice
[23:14] <HazRPG> its basically a CNC machine :P
[23:15] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: you get laser diodes which are pretty much powerful LED's, pop balloons etc... CO2 cuts stuff, 60w will do pretty much most things
[23:15] <dogmatic69_> yip
[23:15] <dogmatic69_> got a bunch of arduino code, just making space for a lathe/milling machine and then it starts
[23:15] <ali1234> you can cut plastic or make a laser projector with the laser from a cd writer
[23:16] <ali1234> i actually once saw a cd writer that "crashed" while writing a disc... it burned a hole right through the cd
[23:16] <dogmatic69_> :O
[23:16] <HazRPG> woah no way
[23:16] <HazRPG> I never realised they were that powerful
[23:16] <ali1234> well it took a while
[23:16] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: will cost about 1500 -> 2000 quid to build
[23:17] <dogmatic69_> http://hpclaser.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11
[23:17] <HazRPG> I thought they could only cut into thin sheets of metal (or whatever the film is that's inside CD's)
[23:17] <ali1234> when the disc is spinning, that's true
[23:17] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: I can imagine
[23:17] <ali1234> when it stops spinning, it's going to just keep burning the same spot
[23:17] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: the fun bit is the 30vka it runs on ;)
[23:17] <dogmatic69_> *30kva
[23:17] <ali1234> i guess the main drive motor burned out but the rest kept going, or something
[23:18] <robin273> ali1234: I think I missed what you said if you responded to my problem, could you repeat what you said?
[23:18]  * PalaPad is in Oxford
[23:18] <ali1234> robin273: purge that alsa package and reinstall it
[23:18] <PalaPad> 3G reception in this part of the world is tragically bad
[23:21] <zleap> PalaPad, where are you ?
[23:21] <PalaPad> Oxford
[23:21] <robin273> ali1234: I get that error while purging it, lol.
[23:21] <zleap> ah
[23:21] <zleap> i would have thought it was good there, given its a university area
[23:21] <PalaPad> In a tiny 16th century hotel
[23:22] <Seeker`> ouch, blast heard at #2 reactor in japan
[23:22] <robin273> ali1234, ?
[23:22] <ali1234> robin273: well you need to clean it out of the system somehow
[23:23] <PalaPad> Crap 9.30 start tomorrow
[23:23] <robin273> ali1234: And how would I do that? I'm sort of new to this, sorry.
[23:24] <PalaPad> Seeker`: Doesn't mean anything bad has happened, they have been venting the gas into their own buildings to give it time to lower radiation
[23:24] <PalaPad> Which is why they have had explosions
[23:25] <PalaPad> None of the explosions have been anywhere near the reactors
[23:25] <Seeker`> PalaPad: yeah, but they reckon this one might have been within a containment vessel
[23:25] <dogmatic69_> \o/
[23:25] <Seeker`> As some of their sensors which were reading 3atm are now reading 1 atm
[23:25] <dogmatic69_> server fault... sudo apt-get install bash-autocomplete
[23:25] <Azelphur> robin273: I think you need a packaging person
[23:25] <Azelphur> ali1234: who does packaging in here?
[23:26] <dogmatic69_> almost working
[23:26] <HazRPG> I don't know why, but whenever I come to think of a hardware hack... I can never think of something, but when I'm not thinking I have great ideas but easily forget them :/
[23:26] <Seeker`> HazRPG: use some paper to write them down :P
[23:27] <Seeker`> Or hack some hardware to record them :P
[23:27] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: i just want to hack/build everything
[23:27] <HazRPG> Seeker`: I usually have the ideas when I'm no where near paper - e.g. out socialising, etc
[23:27] <PalaPad> Well I better go for a smoke and then think about bed, busy day tomorrow so I at least have to think about bed even if the process goes no further
[23:27] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: know the feeling :P
[23:27] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: i want to build the perfect complement to the makerbot... the 3d scanner...
[23:27]  * hamitron uses paper
[23:27] <directhex> dogmatic69: it's called a kinect!
[23:28] <dogmatic69_> doubt that is good enough
[23:28] <HazRPG> most I've ever made though, was a burglar alarm when I was a kid... and some analogue sounds with a speaker
[23:28] <PalaPad> Man this bed is impossibly soft
[23:28] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: i made an ohm meter the other day
[23:28] <dogmatic69_> https://github.com/dogmatic69/arduino-ohm-meter/blob/master/ohm_meter.pde
[23:29] <Seeker`> I made a digital clock with an arduino the other day :D
[23:30] <dogmatic69_> nice
[23:30] <dogmatic69_> why are none of you in #arduino?
[23:30] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: nice! What parts did you use?
[23:30] <dogmatic69_> #arduino ?
[23:30] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: a few resistors
[23:30] <dogmatic69_> :)
[23:30] <dogmatic69_> pull down, pull up and an lcd for output
[23:31] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: because I don't own an arduino :P
[23:31] <Seeker`> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0rH1vLddug
[23:31] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: its more general hardware hacking there tbh
[23:31] <PalaPad> This is evil, event organisers who schedule debates at 9.30am need shooting
[23:31] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: Hmm, interesting
[23:31] <dogmatic69_> every time ive asked something ive had to later add it was arduino :D
[23:31] <PalaPad> No-one can have a good debate so early in the morning
[23:32] <dogmatic69_> Seeker`: that is yours?
[23:32] <HazRPG> PalaPad: its still night time dude :P
[23:32] <Seeker`> dogmatic69_: yus
[23:32] <HazRPG> Seeker`: that's pretty impressive dude :)
[23:32] <dogmatic69_> Seeker`: dont be cheap, buy another 2 digits :D
[23:32] <Seeker`> :D
[23:33] <dogmatic69_> looks awesome
[23:33] <Seeker`> Its done with break out boards from Sparkfun
[23:33] <dogmatic69_> nice
[23:33] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: hmm, why have you got an underscore in your name lol?
[23:33] <HazRPG> I keep hitting tab and almost typing it to the one without the underscore
[23:33] <dogmatic69_> forgot work irc running
[23:34] <HazRPG> lol
[23:34]  * HazRPG needs to learn this lingo
[23:34] <HazRPG> breakout boards?
[23:35] <dogmatic69_> breakout board ~= plugin
[23:35] <HazRPG> guessing its boards that are separated to do their own tasks
[23:35] <dogmatic69_> yip
[23:35] <dogmatic69_> like you get a gps break out
[23:35] <dogmatic69_> will have like 6 pins and just works
[23:35] <HazRPG> yeah I was looking at some on another site (which is where I got the assumption from
[23:35] <dogmatic69_> you get breakouts for everything
[23:36] <dogmatic69_> i buy a bunch of things from coolcomponents
[23:36] <HazRPG> Seeker`: so what breakouts did you use for yours? was it for the LEDs?
[23:36] <dogmatic69_> they pretty good
[23:36] <Seeker`> HazRPG: the 4x7-seg and the RTC
[23:36] <dogmatic69_> you can see the board under the led's
[23:38] <HazRPG> Seeker`: real-time clock?
[23:38] <HazRPG> just a guess
[23:38] <Seeker`> yes
[23:38] <HazRPG> hmm, is the RTC required for keeping track of time?
[23:39] <HazRPG> since I recall brobostigon having trouble with a project he was doing a while back that included time
[23:39] <Seeker`> it is a battery-powered IC which keeps track of the time/date
[23:39] <Seeker`> so even when the arduino isn't powered, it runs off a button battery so that it doesn't lose the time
[23:39] <HazRPG> the code for the arduino looked fine, however it wasn't syncing the time - or even ticking over...
[23:40] <Seeker`> no idea
[23:40] <Seeker`> I just know that mine works :)
[23:41] <HazRPG> :P
[23:41] <ali1234> sounds like forgot to enable interrupts
[23:41] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: I'm guessing you use your ohm meter for testing how much ohm's a resister has?
[23:41] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: exactly
[23:42] <dogmatic69_> its better than a meter as it auto changes resolution and its easier to use
[23:42] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, might be worth talking to him about it because if I recall he's using a GPS device at the moment for keeping the time, but I don't think that's his aim - it was just a little hack he made up to do the same trick
[23:42] <dogmatic69_> can check loads of them together
[23:43] <dogmatic69_> and im busy with a memory function, so it keeps the last reading on screen
[23:43] <HazRPG> resolution?
[23:43] <HazRPG> you mean the on-screen LED you have for it?
[23:43] <HazRPG> LCD&
[23:43] <HazRPG> *
[23:43] <ali1234> GPS for timekeeping kind of sucks
[23:43] <ali1234> i have an alarm clock that does it, it is constantly 15 minutes slow
[23:44] <HazRPG> ouch lol
[23:44] <ali1234> because the GPS clock has an adjustment field in the ephemeris data, and the clock doesn't look at it
[23:44] <ali1234> so when it was new it was accurate
[23:44] <HazRPG> guessing an arduino is a good board to have then?
[23:44] <HazRPG> seems most of you guys have it :P
[23:44] <ali1234> but since then the adjustment changed by 15 minutes
[23:44] <ali1234> and the worst part is you can't fix it
[23:44] <ali1234> because if you adjust the clock manually, it gradually syncs back to GPS time
[23:45] <HazRPG> heh
[23:45] <HazRPG> typical
[23:45] <ali1234> also, arduino kind of sucks
[23:46] <ali1234> it can only do serial over usb
[23:46] <ali1234> better to get something that has a real usb stack
[23:47] <Seeker`> meh, its good for small projects
[23:48] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: resolution, like if its 10 ohm it shows 10 ohm, and 1,000,000 it shows 1M ohm
[23:48] <ali1234> you're better off with a ez-usb or a generic avr board with software usb stack
[23:48] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: ah, I'm with you :)
[23:49] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: on a meter (cheap ones) you have to select the range or it dont work
[23:49] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: also got a mostly working capacitance meter
[23:50] <ali1234> eg: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cypress-CY7C68013A-128-EZ-USB-FX2LP-Developement-Board-/270716796226?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item3f07fa7d42
[23:50] <dogmatic69_> works out how many farad a cap is
[23:50] <dogmatic69_> next up will be a diode tester
[23:50] <dogmatic69_> then add it all together for a test bench :)
[23:51] <zleap> anyone up in the bristol area ?:
[23:53] <HazRPG> ali1234: interesting
[23:53] <HazRPG> ali1234: that the sort of thing you use?
[23:53] <ali1234> yes
[23:56] <ali1234> or this: http://robotfuzz.com/OSIF
[23:56] <ali1234> or even better, just build your own
[23:57] <ali1234> http://robotfuzz.com/files/OSIF/OSIF-sch.png
[23:58] <ali1234> (you can ignore all the stuff about external power, it runs from USB if there's no serious load)
[23:58] <HazRPG> see now your just confusing me xD
[23:59] <ali1234> ignore the +9v stuff
[23:59] <HazRPG> not really done a lot of hardware stuff before, but I've always been keen to get into it
[23:59] <ali1234> you can also ignore the LEDs
[23:59] <ali1234> all you need is the xtal and the usb connector
[23:59] <HazRPG> is that on the schematics png?