[04:27] <raony> hey guys, when a visual installer for the studio will finally happen ?
[04:28] <holstein> raony: we were talking about maybe for 12.04 :)
[04:30] <raony> I will keep that in mind, if there is anyway I can help with that, just want to make the transition to studio less painful with that installer.
[04:30] <raony> but for us i believe it's pretty easy
[04:32] <holstein> raony: im sure there is
[04:32] <holstein> we were talking about either the live CD
[04:33] <holstein> like the normal buntu
[04:33] <holstein> OR
[04:33] <holstein> the graphical verion of what we already have
[04:41] <raony> what about a live dvd, is that possible?
[04:41] <raony> using all the 1.6 gb
[04:41] <holstein> raony: sure
[04:41] <holstein> possible
[04:41] <holstein> not too hard either
[04:42] <holstein> raony: you know when you are installing from an ubuntustudio disc now?
[04:42] <holstein> the tasks?
[04:42] <raony> from the live dvd i believe people could use a usb to install
[04:42] <holstein> you put a checkmark in?
[04:42] <raony> the you mean ?
[04:42] <raony> when you choose for video suite, audio suite, image suite ?
[04:42] <holstein> ^ yeah
[04:42] <holstein> we would lose that
[04:43] <holstein> going with a live DVD
[04:43] <holstein> and i think thats OK
[04:43] <holstein> but we need to make sure
[04:43] <holstein> we dont want to waffle
[04:43] <holstein> its all or nothing :)
[04:43] <holstein> i think its a good move
[04:43] <holstein> BUT, we should think about it from every angle and make sure
[04:43] <raony> and if we include that at the installer, just make a few more steps at the installer ?
[04:44] <holstein> raony: i dont think we can
[04:44] <raony> ok
[04:44] <holstein> raony: after the install though
[04:44] <holstein> do-able work arounds for sure
[04:44] <holstein> and that would give us the USB install
[04:44] <holstein> *easier usb install
[04:45] <holstein> and a similar look and feel to the normal buntu
[04:45] <holstein> and a chance for folks to check their gear with JACK
[04:45] <holstein> BUT, the task selection is nice
[04:45] <raony> true
[04:46] <holstein> it wasnt working though
[04:46] <holstein> so, i dont know...
[07:48]  * abogani waves all
[16:28] <scott-work> holstein: i guess there are few items to look at since i'm back
[16:29] <scott-work> like the libffado business for one
[16:29] <scott-work> i suppose i also need to contact dick micinnis about the art lead/director position
[16:29] <scott-work> ailo: thanks for testing those backports, i'll add my comments to them this week and ping ScottK later in the week
[16:30] <scott-work> incidentally, i've been in contact with some people at the libre graphics magazine: http://libregraphicsmag.com/
[16:30] <holstein> scott-work: yeah, i'll go over that with you whenever
[16:30] <holstein> i have a few folk to follow up with
[16:30] <holstein> and i think we have time
[16:30] <holstein> and a few options
[16:30] <holstein> we can apparently step back to an older verion
[16:30] <scott-work> originally i wanted to get their input on a good work flow/tool chain for graphics applications
[16:31] <holstein> for 11.04
[16:31] <holstein> if needed*
[16:31] <scott-work> holstein: it's good to have a fallback plan certainly
[16:32] <scott-work> interestingly, the LGgraphics people offered to place an ad in their magazine for a call to action to get peoples input for graphics
[16:32] <scott-work> it's too late for their current edition but we could do that for the next edition
[16:32] <scott-work> i wanted to get the editor's input since they use libre graphics applications in a professional setting
[16:33] <scott-work> one of the editors (ginger) used to use ubuntu studio but recently switched to a fedora respin and are working with them
[16:34] <scott-work> not trying to "win" her back, but i would really like to hear from her (and the rest) how we could improve
[16:36] <holstein> scott-work: we should talk about that
[16:37] <ailo> Perhaps the people involved in creating the art for UbuntuStudio will also have an idea of what would be good to use on the graphic side.
[16:38] <ailo> scott-upstairs, Yeah, I started testing some packages. Some of them I've never tried, so I need to see how to use them :P
[16:39] <ailo> scott-work, I mean. (this auto-complete feature on x-chat is completing the first possibility alphabetically, without asking)
[16:50] <scott-work> ailo: i should really get rid of my "scott-upstairs" xchat session seeing that i'm not even on that computer currently ;)
[16:50] <scott-work> that computer has been on for almost two weeks and I really haven't used it much while sick/away on work
[17:05] <macinnisrr> Hi!
[17:05] <holstein> macinnisrr: hey :)
[17:05] <holstein> scott-work was talking about art earlier
[17:06] <macinnisrr> are scott-work, scott-upstairs, and ScottL all the same person?
[17:06] <holstein> macinnisrr: yup
[17:06] <macinnisrr> lol.
[17:07] <scott-work> macinnisrr: sorry about the names, i usually leave ScottL on all the time on my laptop downstairs
[17:08] <scott-work> macinnisrr: i use scott-work and scott-upstairs as needed.  as you can see i'm guilty of leaving the -upstairs one on when it should be closed
[17:08] <scott-work> macinnisrr: would you still like to be the art lead ?
[17:09] <macinnisrr> scott-work: no need to apologize :) I understand that. I've got 6 PCs in my house, so I often do the same. And yeah, I'd love to be any part of the project (but especially the art lead)!
[17:11] <ailo> macinnisrr, What are your ideas about art for UbuntuStudio?
[17:12]  * ailo has been thinking a little about that, though not being an "art" person.
[17:16] <macinnisrr> ailo: I currently maintain/run/develop Dream Studio (dream.dickmacinnis.com), which started as an iso of all the stuff I install in my home/studio. Anyway, I've been creating a consistent look for GTK/QT/Ardour/Cinelerra as a part of that, which is similar to Ubuntu (for documentation's) sake, but dark with blue accents (like UbuntuStudio). check screenshots here: https://picasaweb.google.com/macinnisrr/DreamStudio?
[17:16] <macinnisrr> authkey=Gv1sRgCIGlgo6bm8jSBA&feat=directlink
[17:23] <macinnisrr> BTW: those are screenshots from the lucid version of Dream Studio, the new themes are more in line with Ambiance and Radiance (since they've toned down the orange).
[17:25] <ailo> macinnisrr, I've been thinking along those lines myself for Ubuntustudio. I was working on a pimp of the Ambiance theme, but using blue. I tried morphing the humanity folder icons too. 
[17:26] <ailo> My thought was to keep it as easy as possible, as close to Ubuntu as possible, but still do something nice for the theme.
[17:26] <ailo> I guess that just resonates with how I see the logic of UbuntuStudio, being a part of Ubuntu's repo, it's a possible tweak
[17:32] <macinnisrr> ailo: exactly! I think we're on exactly the same page here. The current ubuntstudio theme doesn't match ubuntu, which alienates new users who may be reading the ubuntu manual (mainly because window controls are different), and the blue folder icons and navigation buttons don't match the blue of the logo.
[17:40] <scott-work> sorry, work is very, very busy today
[17:41] <scott-work> macinnisrr: i think you are the guy for the art lead position, congratulations :)
[17:41] <scott-work> macinnisrr: and i also wanted to mention that i took a look at your site, watched some videos and i like the stuff you do, very creative
[17:44] <macinnisrr> scott-work: well thanks very much! Both for the position and the nice compliment. What's my first assignment, themes for oneiric? Do you have a wallpaper for natty yet?
[17:56] <scott-work> macinnisrr: i'm not sure we have much time left for natty to be honest and it may be better to wait for natty+1
[17:57] <scott-work> macinnisrr: unless you are a super creative type with lots of time perhaps and can get some art work done really, really soon
[17:57] <scott-work> sorry i'm being a bit short, work is super crazy since i've been sick and travel on business and today is my first day day back in almost two weeks :P
[17:58] <scott-work> macinnisrr: as for the first assignment, we probably should discuss what direction you would like to suggest going forward
[17:59] <scott-work> it seems that ailo_ has some interest in this as well, probably holstein also
[17:59] <scott-work> they might have suggestions or even offer to help
[17:59] <scott-work> abogani: i'll start working on the -lowlatency kernel again early this week
[18:01] <macinnisrr> scott-work: good enough. I don't know if you know, but there are a ton of really good wallpapers on ubuntu-gallery.com that I was planning on picking from for Dream Studio. My new themes are done, though, and on launchpad, so they should be easy to pull in to UbuntuStudio (I'm using the hydroxygen icon theme, which already has an ubuntustudio icon for the distributor logo as an option). The new themes are purposely 
[18:01] <macinnisrr> in line with ubuntustudio's colors, so this is all ready to go now. I'll upload some screenshots in a second, once I've tweaked the theme. And don't worry about being short, I'm just happy you're here to speak with. I came onto irc today specifically to talk to you, so it's great that I was able to catch you.
[18:17] <macinnisrr> scott-work: here's a link to some screenshots of the new themes/icons
[18:17] <macinnisrr> https://picasaweb.google.com/macinnisrr/UbuntuStudioScreenshots?feat=directlink
[18:19] <macinnisrr> ailo_: you can download the theme from my ppa, and let me know what you think (and don't be afraid to offer suggestions) https://launchpad.net/~dreamstudio/+archive/dreamstudio-stable
[18:22] <ailo_> macinnisrr, Thanks. Congrats on your assignment, and let's make the next, or next+next release a really great one.
[18:24] <macinnisrr> ailo_: absolutely. I always thought UbuntuStudio was a fantastic distribution that just needed the tiniest bit of extra polish.
[18:25]  * macinnisrr is checking out the latest submissions to http://www.ubuntu-gallery.com
[18:48] <ailo_> macinnisrr, My idea is simplicity. Not only on the art bit but overall. Things that don't require too much work. So, it's more a matter of putting things into a system, something that maybe doesn't need to be developed as much as mantained.
[18:49] <ailo_> However, things change, and Ubuntu art will change, and everything else will change, so perhaps that is not always a very smart objective
[18:51] <ailo_> the objective being, putting things into a maintainable system
[19:02] <macinnisrr> ailo_: I totally agree. I've done the art for 3 versions of Dream Studio now (including natty), and everytime it was just a matter of supplanting the coloring on the stock ubuntu themes (and adding a dark theme, which was the most work, but still no more than a couple hours overall). Basically, I think UbuntuStudio aims to be a solution for artists, which means they need something that "just works"TM (which ubuntu i
[19:02] <macinnisrr> s already working on, but that UbuntuStudio needs to address vis-a-vis pulse-jack integration, sane defaults for cinelerra, etc., but also needs good documentation, which is why I want to stay as close to stock ubuntu as possible in the UI, as Ubuntu has tons of documentation and community support), that looks good (which has been my main focus), and that is as functional as commercial alternatives (which the people
[19:02] <macinnisrr>  working upstream are doing fantastically at. If Ardour3 and gimp 2.8 are released in time, if unity and unity-2d can get the kinks worked out, and if we can create a professional looking UI for Cinelerra, all in time for the next LTS release, we'll be starting to move beyond being "as good as" the windows/apple/adobe/digidesign solutions, and into the realm of being more functional, more customisable, and more affo
[19:03] <macinnisrr> rdable than all the alternatives)
[19:06] <ailo_> macinnisrr, I think the pulse-jack part is up for debate, though things like that should be easily accesible through a common interface. Perhaps something that can be inserted into ubuntustudio-controls.
[19:09] <macinnisrr> ailo_: actually, that's a great idea! Who maintains ubuntustudio-controls?
[19:11] <ailo_> macinnisrr, Right now it is me, in a way. I've been working on a new version, however my version is not in anyway something to build on other than experience-wise. paultag is helping out with that, and he could probably put some guts into that if he found a time and place for it.
[19:12] <macinnisrr> aio_: on KXStudio, jack is started before a session, so it's a single-user approach, but, I've written a simple script for Dream Studio that connects pulse to jack after it's started. It currently only works with qjackctl (as it's inserted as the startup command in qjackctl's options), but it wouldn't be hard to put in an option in ubuntustudio-controls for pulse-jack integration, that would move jackdmp (or jackd),
[19:12] <macinnisrr>  and replace it with a script that would do the pulse shutdown, jack startup, and pulse-jack connection.
[19:13] <ailo_> I've made a -controls application suitable for Natty, to let the user get realtime privilege. And install restricted extras. My idea was to grow that into a indicator app, that also checks the system during starupt
[19:13] <ailo_> startup*
[19:14] <ailo_> I think adding Jack as Desktop audio could perhaps be a little problematic. I would love it, if it worked really well and there were no crashes
[19:16] <ailo_> I think for jack to work as a Desktop audio system you would need some kind of comprehensive system to control it, partly automatically.
[19:16] <macinnisrr> ailo_: good idea. I've also been toying with the idea of making an option in ubuntustudio-controls (which IMHO should be renamed Realtime controls, as it's more intuitive and less distribution specific) that would give you a GUI to control PCI latency, as many audio people could use it, and most audio people are not hackers ;)
[19:18] <ailo_> macinnisrr, Yes, the problem is really getting things to work on all levels. Jack will work fine with audio apps intended for jack, but perhaps not as well with browsers and flash-player. qjackctl is already a way to get into "professional mode" when it comes to audio. PA is not meant for low-latency, neither are probably most things Desktop related.
[19:19] <ailo_> That is really my main concern, as a user and as a member of this team, that the basic functionality works as well as possible, without hassle
[19:20] <macinnisrr> ailo_: I wouldn't advocate making JACK the the desktop system, as some people want UbuntuStudio for Graphics only, or video only. I've just seen that many people (including myself) would like to be able to route pulseaudio through JACK when it's being used. As an example case (real world), I'm mixing a song, but I want to reference music from rhythmbox while I'm working on the master. In the current setup, I have to
[19:20] <macinnisrr>  either use a jack enabled application (which gstreamer is not), of which there are none as easy to use (not to mention not installed by default) as rhythmbox/banshee, or shut down jack (which is incredibly tedious).
[19:22] <macinnisrr> ailo_: all I'm suggesting (and I've succesfully enacted in Dream Studio), is that if and when JACK is turned on, pulseaudio automatically shuts down to allow JACK to access what is usually the sole audio card, and once JACK has started, pulseaudio resumes and uses JACK sources and sinks for all of its work. Seamless.
[19:23] <ailo_> macinnisrr, Right now, in Ubuntu Natty, jackd makes PA sleep
[19:23] <ailo_> In Lucid, I think qjactl did that
[19:23] <ailo_> In Maverick, I think nothing was affecting PA
[19:24] <ailo_> If I was using a browser with flash-player, while starting jack in Maveric, it wouldn't work
[19:24] <ailo_> Not the case in Natty
[19:24] <ailo_> However, I have no idea how this works, or who makes it work
[19:25] <ailo_> And, I wouldn't mind putting these options into US-controls
[19:26] <ailo_> It would be great if US-controls became the "one" place to do all these configurations.
[19:26] <macinnisrr> ailo_: I actually haven't tried it in natty (as I'd used the aforementioned workaround since Lucid), so it may be fixed now, but I think that at least for ubuntustudio, that what I've mentioned should be the default behavior, but should also be an option in ubuntustudio controls for people who don't want pulse on at all while JACK is running (as I do in a live setup).
[19:26] <macinnisrr> ailo_: agreed.
[19:27] <ailo_> I imagine an indicator app, that has a menu with everything you need to change or set settings
[19:28] <macinnisrr> ailo_: that would be great (especially with the move to unity)
[20:46] <scott-work> wow, apparently freenode shut down for a while
[20:46] <holstein> yeah, you got split
[20:46] <holstein> 15:01 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: scott-work
[20:48] <scott-work> oh...the status page said they were also shutting it down for a few minutes
[20:48] <scott-work> i tried to relog for several minutes when i got back to my desk but it wouldn't connect for a while
[20:49] <holstein> yeah
[20:50] <holstein> i lost thelonius for a long time last nite