ali1234the schematic is more confusing than it needs to be00:00
dogmatic69_HazRPG: arduino http://tinkerlog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/clone02_l.png00:03
dogmatic69_you can also hack your own one, http://tinkerlog.com/2008/01/07/arduino-on-a-prototype-board/00:04
ali1234(note lack of usb port lol)00:04
ali1234all these boards are basically the same though00:04
ali1234and the reason for that is the AVR chip is pretty much a whole computer in one chip00:05
ali1234you don't need anything else00:05
dogmatic69_its main function is the a->d and pwm00:05
ali1234all the "clever" stuff about arduino is done in the firmware and the IDE00:05
Seeker`What chip do pirates use for hobby electronics?00:05
dogmatic69_it is a little computer, a 4hz computer :D00:06
ali1234actually 4-24mhz00:06
Seeker`A V Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr00:06
ali1234avr is the chip in most modchips too00:06
ali1234well, the old ones at least00:07
dogmatic69_they are good chips00:07
ali1234i dunno what they use thesedays00:07
dogmatic69_i hear push through is dead though00:07
dogmatic69_all smt chips soon00:07
HazRPGhmm, so best starting point for a newbie like me?00:07
ali1234you mean through hole?00:07
* HazRPG having looked at everything and thinking they all look very similar00:07
ali1234avr is available in both package types00:08
Seeker`arduino is just plug-in and program00:08
ali1234the trouble with arduino is it's all lock-in00:10
ali1234they have their own programming language, their own communication protocol, their own bootloader method00:10
ali1234sure, most of it is open source00:10
ali1234but it just gets in the way00:10
Seeker`it depends what you want out of it00:11
Seeker`if you want to play with microcontrollers and basic electronics, they are all good00:11
HazRPGwell I guess since I haven't done much, just getting to grips with it all for starters00:13
HazRPGhowever I would like to move on to making something similar to a HardSID00:14
HazRPGor even a CF reader for my C6400:14
dogmatic69_ali1234: obviously you not used it much, arduino runs c++00:14
ali1234C++ on a microcontroller ...00:14
HazRPGI was going to say, I thought arduino used c++00:15
ali1234it's not "real" C++00:15
ali1234it's their cut down version of it00:15
dogmatic69_you can import anything you like00:15
dogmatic69_just have 32k to work with00:15
ali1234the full C++ stdlib is about 100000 times too big to fit on an avr flash memory00:15
ali1234not to mention that 90% of it is useless for microcontroller programming00:16
dogmatic69_and you dont like it because they excluded that stuff?00:16
ali1234i don't like it because C++ is a bad tool for the job in the first place00:16
dogmatic69_java... :D00:17
HazRPGali1234: what is it that cypress uses?00:17
ali1234java on microcontrollers is slightly more sensible as long as you choose one that has hardware support for java00:17
dogmatic69_ali1234: you want assembler?00:17
dogmatic69_you can run just about anything that can compile on them00:18
ali1234HazRPG: all microcontrollers use machine code, it's up to you to choose whatever compiler you want to use (unless you have an arduino, then you are pretty much stuck with their compiler - lock-in)00:18
dogmatic69_ali1234: that is only if you use their boot loader, you can use another/your own etc00:19
ali1234sure. and then you have a generic AVR development board...00:19
ali1234because the arduino hardware is not special in any way00:19
hamitronwhich is more fun ;)00:19
dogmatic69_its not00:19
dogmatic69_but its easy for noobs like me and HazRPG :D00:20
dogmatic69_its like runing ubuntu vs compiling linux kernals from source00:20
ali1234not really00:20
hamitronit is like comparing ubuntu with slackware ;)00:21
ali1234it's more like learning to driver in an automatic car00:21
ali1234when you want to drive a manual, you have tolearn all over again00:21
dogmatic69_its can still do most the other things, with some bloat to do the boring stuff00:21
ali1234should have just learned in a manual in the first palce00:21
Seeker`ali1234: yeah, but you'll have a knowledge of the electronics that fit round it00:21
hamitronscrap all this programming and just use electronics00:22
dogmatic69_ali1234: that is the same as saying if you want to learn how to drive a manual, you have to build the engine first00:22
ali1234believe it or not, you can learn the electronics without any fancy microcontrollers00:22
dogmatic69_its just a bunch of switches00:22
HazRPGpretty much :P00:23
ali1234not to mention that the electronics part is almost completely unrelated to programming a mcu00:23
hamitronI made a fuel and pit stop simulator for scalextric, using none programable stuff00:23
Seeker`ali1234: If you want to play with mcs, you need some electroics roundit. Something like arduino allows you to actually build something quickly and easily00:23
Seeker`its more than enough for beginners projects00:24
dogmatic69_and you can do the analogue to digital with resistors00:24
hamitronhow? ;)00:25
hamitronarduino is the way to learn imo, but it is important to not get lazy and miss basic electronic stuff00:26
hamitronif you want to learn electronics anyway00:26
hamitronusing flip-flops is something you should not miss00:27
PalaPadhttp://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/12/aristotle200712. < this is the guy I debating with tomorrow00:29
PalaPadShould be fun00:29
hamitronjust look at him and say "who the fk are you?" ;)00:30
ali1234"u mad?"00:31
PalaPadLol that is gonna go down well at Oxford Uni lol00:31
hamitronguess Hull Uni was different kinda class...00:32
PalaPadWish I had thought to data mine a profile about him for the debate00:32
hamitronoh btw guys00:33
PalaPadWould have been funny to expose his life to the room00:33
hamitronI figured out the problem with my 3rd comp00:33
hamitronvibrations from my bass drum kept causing the gfx card to lose connection00:33
hamitrondidn't really think about it much before00:34
hamitronbut it always had problems when I was shaking everything00:35
HazRPGhamitron: huh?00:37
HazRPGyou just sit with a bass drum running all day long?00:37
hamitronit used to just restart on me00:37
hamitronno, only when I am drumming00:37
hamitronbut I also have a habbit of tapping my foot to music near my comp too00:38
HazRPGhmm, if the arduino doesn't have a proper USB stack... does that mean I couldn't use it as a standalone USB device?00:38
ali1234unless that USB device happens to be one that works like a serial port00:38
ali1234so you can't use it to make a midi device, keyboard or other HID, usb storage, or anything else that works on usb...00:39
HazRPGwell that's just pants!00:40
hamitroncouldn't you program the outputs/inputs?00:40
HazRPGI'm guessing you could add a usb stack board to the arduino... surely...00:40
ali1234no, it doesn't have the right crystal for software USB00:40
ali1234yeah you could add an external USB chip...00:40
ali1234but that will cost more than the arduino board00:40
ali1234and be extremely difficult to work with00:41
=== tsimpson_ is now known as tsimpson
hamitronali1234: you know anything off the shelf I could use as a base for a phone type device?00:42
hamitron300mhz or greater cpu00:43
ali1234"phone type"?00:43
HazRPGali1234: does the cypress come with decent documentation?00:43
ali1234HazRPG: if you like reading TRMs...00:43
hamitronyeh, gsm, gps, display00:43
ali1234hamitron: an N900...00:43
hamitronthat is boring00:44
HazRPGali1234: I'm guessing I don't, since I haven't a clue what that is :P00:44
hamitrondon't mind it been slightly larger, and modular00:44
ali1234hamitron: you get either a phone, or a phone dev board that costs 10x as much and is as big as a PC motherboard00:45
hamitrondev board would mean single for many years00:46
hamitronthere is/was some open phone project00:47
hamitronbut felt like loads of broken links00:48
HazRPGhamitron: what is it your trying to do? Build your own mobile?00:49
hamitronsort of00:50
hamitronI don't want a phone as such00:50
hamitronbut it would be nice to be portable00:50
ali1234there is a severe lack of good quality open source mobile phone UIs anyway00:50
ali1234if you want to make phone calls with open source software android is basically your only choice at this time00:50
ali1234everything else is either half finished or complete vapourware00:51
hamitronthe gsm chips look interesting00:51
HazRPGdoesn't it have something to do with the fact that its not easy to make a GSM compliant chip at home? Or would I be badly mistaken for thinking that00:52
hamitronthe GSM chip I looked at was 60 quid00:52
ali1234"completely impossible" would be closer to the truth00:52
hamitronand that is before I consider anything else to make it usable00:52
hamitronmaybe a display off a PSP ;)00:53
HazRPGhamitron: you could just rip one out of an old phone?00:53
HazRPGhamitron: I've not thrown away a single phone I've ever had...00:53
hamitronI still use my ngage :(00:53
HazRPGhamitron: I still own an ngage :P00:54
ali1234siiiiiiiide talkin00:54
hamitronqd is a brick atm00:54
hamitronreally need to try flashing it sometime00:54
HazRPGali1234: I found it more comfortable to use the ngage then most phones00:55
hamitronqd is better00:55
HazRPGthe only annoying thing was if you wanted to use your two hands for anything00:55
hamitronqd is the best phone ever....00:55
hamitronapart from the auto bricking feature00:55
HazRPGbut the qd was basically a regular phone (in terms of how you held it)00:55
hamitronwith game controls...00:55
hamitronbrighter screen00:56
hamitronand you didn't have to take the thing apart to change game00:56
HazRPGhamitron: I put all my games into one card :/00:56
ali1234lol... games... on removable media...00:56
ali1234how quaint00:56
hamitronnormal ngage is too long00:57
hamitronif you wear tight jeans, it can poke you in nasty places00:57
* HazRPG hates tight jeans00:57
HazRPGdon't see the point in them00:57
hamitronnot skin tight00:58
hamitronbut not baggy00:58
HazRPGheh, pocket fail then00:58
HazRPGI always make sure the pockets are deep - because my wallets are usually huge00:58
directhexthe ngage was a terrible gaming device. put the rose-tinted glasses away00:58
HazRPGplus I like to keep cigs, phone, wallet in my pockets00:59
hamitronlast thing you need is an ngage giving you a good poking whilst you are trying to race a car whilst on a motorbike00:59
hamitrondirecthex: and? ;)00:59
hamitronI liked it as a phone00:59
hamitronand it is better than most phones for gaming00:59
hamitronyou have proper gaming buttons01:00
HazRPGhamitron: didn't they take the FM radio out of the QD?01:00
HazRPGhamitron: something I use to use a lot01:00
hamitroni take mp301:00
HazRPGhamitron: that'll be the other reason I didn't like it then :P01:00
directhexhamitron: FSVO "proper"01:00
directhexfor small versions of01:01
hamitronwhat you mean? ;)01:01
directhexi mean it was a crap game controller01:01
hamitronbetter than a keypad01:02
HazRPGdirecthex: ... it was a D-Pad, I don't see how that was crap?01:02
directhexherpes is better than aids, but that doesn't make it desirable01:02
hamitrontbh, there has been no good gaming phone yet01:03
hamitronjsut the ngage is the best so far :/01:03
directhexHazRPG: entire encyclopardias have been written on the relative merits of different d-pad implementations. entire industries have sprung up around it. the ngage's was crap01:03
hamitronthe qd has better D-pad01:03
hamitronhad a seperate select button01:03
Azelphuryay I'm saved from my invalid power supply decision :P01:04
directhexAzelphur: ?01:04
Azelphurmy friend has the correct power supply and is selling it to me for £5 :D01:04
Azelphurand it's a nice antec one too.01:04
Azelphurscore :p01:04
directhexooh, antec01:04
hamitronif sony weren't such cocks, I'd consider their new gaming phone01:04
directhexi'm not remotely convinced by that either01:05
hamitronmaybe I should make a mod for psp01:05
hamitronadd gsm....01:05
HazRPGme either... I'm not convinced the "PSPhone" is going to be any good :/01:05
ali1234i think you should glue a nokia 3210 to a classic gameboy01:05
HazRPGali1234: +101:06
ali1234you would then have made the best gaming phone ever01:06
HazRPGali1234: sounds like my theory on camera phones01:06
directhexhonestly? right now, the best gaming phone is the iphone. they haven't badly attempted to glue one form factor into another - instead, developers have been making complete use of the new form factor01:06
hamitronngage was better than gameboy ;/01:06
ali1234yup, all cameraphones are terrible01:06
HazRPGphone + camera + duct-tape = camera phone winner!01:06
directhexhamitron: except for the quality of the games, and the d-pad01:07
hamitronI prefer the d-pad on the ngage qd01:07
directhexthen you have absolutely terrible taste ^_^01:07
hamitronquality of games I will give ya01:07
directhexthere's a reason nintendo fiercely guard their d-pad patents, and have left the design pretty much unchanged since the famicom01:08
hamitronbut to me, a standard handheld console is useless01:08
directhexhamitron: you're a special case though01:08
hamitronI want a device as a phone, with some hardcore gaming :)01:08
hamitronguess so01:08
hamitronalso must have an open development platform01:09
directhexthe thing is, the use-case for home consoles and portable consoles is different, which is why you don't just put console games on portables01:09
directhexthat's what's killed the PSP01:09
HazRPGI hate the whole "cram everything into one device"01:09
hamitronme too HazRPG01:09
HazRPGbecause one part always suffers because of a result of another01:09
directhexand similarly, the use-case for a handheld console and a mobile phone game is different01:09
hamitronHazRPG: I would personally be willing to side talk on a netbook, if it was a netbook with a phone function :)01:10
hamitrondirecthex: yep01:10
directhexthe ngage was absolutely terrible because a company with no experience with handheld gaming, nokia, attempted to staple a low-quality chinese knock-off of a gameboy colour into a mobile phone. things like the cartridge slot snafu show just how much lack of thought went into the device01:10
hamitronguess I don't want a phone with games, I want a handheld toy that functions as a phone01:10
directhexhamitron: sounds like n900 territory?01:11
hamitronpartly, yes01:11
ali1234except for that it has a keyboard that is useless for gaming, and a resistive screen that is also useless for gaming01:11
hamitronif the PSPhone is running android....01:12
directhexthe iphone has become a serious gaming platform, as far as publishers are concerned. and that burns me up as a hardcore gamer, because the games going onto it are games for mobile phone users. snake, for the HD era.01:12
hamitronit may be an option01:12
directhexhamitron: it is01:12
ali1234jeff minter is making iphone games now01:12
ali1234he just ported llamatron01:12
directhexali1234: good example01:12
ali1234it has hardcore mode01:12
directhexalthough jeff's always been a bit weird01:12
directhexhe backed NUON01:12
* hamitron wants a d-pad01:13
hamitronit HAS to have game controls01:13
HazRPGhamitron: D-Pad for the PC?01:13
directhexhamitron: so playstation phone for you, then01:13
HazRPGdirecthex: except sony are a-holes?01:13
directhexHazRPG: sony or bust, if you want a d-pad.01:13
hamitronif sony hadn't put me off getting a PS3, I would probably not be questioning it01:14
ali1234directhex: what do you want as a hardcore gamer?01:14
HazRPGdirecthex: lies, solder + mobile phone + snes controller is all one needs01:14
hamitronI wouldn't have an LG tv in here either01:14
ali1234i mean what's wrong with llamatron? tempest? etc01:14
directhexali1234: ultimately, the type of game experience i enjoy isn't one offered by minter. and i say that having spent money on space giraffe.01:15
ali1234it doesn't get much more hardcore than that stuff imo01:15
HazRPGdirecthex: sure... there would be a wire sticking out of your phone...  but still, small price to pay. If your going to be gaming on the go, you'll be sat down anyways...01:15
Seeker`psp2 could be very interesting01:16
hamitronpsp2 is hardcore, but no phone function :/01:16
Seeker`in terms of graphics power at least01:16
directhexali1234: right. but ironically enough, that stuff is also highly casual. it's played in short bursts, it's completely ephemeral. it's more *skilled* than Fruit Ninja, but it appeals to the same sensations01:16
HazRPGhamitron: psp2 is the phone PSP dude01:16
Seeker`HazRPG: nope01:16
hamitronNGP then01:16
directhexHazRPG: negative01:16
HazRPGis it not?01:16
Seeker`psp2 is the NGP01:16
hamitronif it had option to make calls, and cost under 300 quid, it would of been mine01:17
ali1234directhex: so... what is it that you do want?01:17
hamitronbut I am still sulking with sony, so they can wait 10 years before I buy anything from them again01:18
Seeker`the NGP isn't meant to be an iphone replacement, its gonna be for gaming01:18
directhexali1234: stories. adventures. experiences that are poorly suited to any mobile platform, really.01:18
hamitronSeeker`: a shame it doesn't ahve basic voice calls though01:18
AzelphurPWM is the capability for fans to be automatically controlled by the motherboard right?01:19
Seeker`hamitron: not really. I've got a phone for that.01:19
hamitronSeeker`: I can't carry so many devices!01:19
Seeker`Azelphur: context?01:19
hamitronlack of pockets  :/01:19
AzelphurSeeker`: computer fans01:19
Azelphurspecifically case ones.01:19
Seeker`Azelphur: usually, yes01:19
ali1234seems to me that oldschool graphic adventures could work quite well on mobile01:19
Seeker`hamitron: get better clothes01:19
Azelphurso now that I understand that part, anyone know a reasonably cheap not crap 120mm fan with PWM? :D01:20
directhexali1234: yes. but better with a touchscreen rather than d-pad rubbish. which is why you can get monkey island and broken sword on iphone01:20
directhex(and scummvm for android and webos)01:20
Seeker`ali1234: define "oldschool"?01:20
directhexSeeker`: 90s golden age of graphic adventures01:20
ali1234Seeker`: anything made before doom01:20
hamitronSeeker`: I like my leathers!01:21
Seeker`There isn't much hope of new consoles any time soon, and graphics chips are catching up fast01:21
directhexali1234: or after. let's not ignore full throttle plz.01:21
hamitronkeys, money, wallet, phone.... all need seperate pockets01:22
HazRPGpersonally, I feel that the whole reason consoles are so popular is the "insert cartridge/disc and play" feature... why doesn't the PC have the same ability (other than the fact that no two hardware is exactly the same)01:22
Seeker`HazRPG: because thats not what PCs are designed for :P01:22
directhexHazRPG: because it's hard.01:23
hamitronI am surprised the idea of making a game into a live cd hasn't taken off01:23
hamitronwith a limited hardware list01:23
directhexhamitron: bundled with drivers for a billion combinations?01:23
Seeker`console games are designed for very specific hardware in very specific conditions01:23
HazRPGSeeker`: yeah, but if someone made an "insert game disc" application - it would rock, place in your game and away you go!01:23
directhexhamitron: pc gaming is already a niche. gotta maximize your market.01:23
Seeker`and they are heavily optimized for that hardware01:23
ali1234i remember when PC games were actually different from console games01:24
ali1234now they're all the same01:24
hamitrondirecthex: I was thinking of an open source console type thing01:24
ali1234except the console version works better, and the PC version has mods01:24
directhexali1234: games cost tens of millions to make. how many units need to ship to break even?01:24
ali1234some games cost tens of millions01:25
directhexali1234: i don't blame companies for making cross-platform games, to increase the likelihood of profit01:25
HazRPGali1234: I would disagree, UT3 for the PS3 was sooooo much buggier than the PC version01:25
* hamitron neither01:25
hamitronI never did get my UT3 linux client!01:25
directhexhamitron: yeah, that's disappointing when it's been ported01:25
ali1234the problem is that a lot of cross platform games sit in the ugly middle ground01:25
directhexali1234: it takes a little more time & effort to really work the platforms individually for a cross-platform game. dragon age is a good example, the pc version has completely pc-centric controls instead of being a straight port01:26
HazRPGali1234: how so?01:26
ali1234for example, se every cross platform FPS game ever made01:26
directhexmost don't bother. deadlines, etc01:26
hamitronI've lost interest in PC gaming since F1 201001:27
directhexi have every platform. i pick & choose where to get my games01:27
hamitronto buy a game and find bugs will be fixed in F1 2011 is annoying01:27
directhexgenerally, i favour PC for first person, console for third person01:27
HazRPGhamitron: I fail to see that, my sonic games have never been better on my PC :)01:27
ali1234"third person" is now a category of game?01:28
directhexali1234: it's distinct enough in how it "feels"01:28
directhexgears of war is not unreal tournament01:28
HazRPGhamitron: especially thanks to my bluetooth dongle and my PS3 controller interacting together with QtSixA01:28
hamitronHazRPG: I feel ripped off01:28
ali1234i remember when not all games were about space marines too01:29
hamitronI paid for F1 2010, not to fund the release of F1 201101:29
directhexali1234: doom was about space marines!01:29
HazRPGali1234: third person always was a genre... expect they called them "adventure/platform" games01:29
HazRPGhamitron: heh I can understand that01:30
ali1234directhex: ID software basically "solved" the problem of PC gaming with doom, and 90% of all PC games since are just clones of it01:30
Seeker`hamitron: what was wrong with F1 2010?01:31
directhexultimately, i have 27 years of gaming history on my shelves, accumulated over the past 22 years. and i really feel rose-tinted glasses are overrated. modern gaming is brilliant.01:31
hamitronSeeker`: a long list of things01:31
directhex2011 is a brilliant year to be a gamer. better than 2010, which was better than 2009, etc01:31
ali1234at least doom and quake 1 had a somewhat unique setting, unlike all the following games which just go back to "weird mutant aliens"01:31
hamitronmost annoying to me is the pit stop issue01:31
HazRPGyou know, thing I like about ID software is, most of their software gets released as multiplatform (e.g. works on linux), shame more companies don't do the same01:32
ali1234or even worse, "red space marine vs blue space marine"01:32
directhexthe current console generation has given us completely new and fantastic experiences. dead rising? assassin's creed? you could *never* have done those games on the previous generation of kit01:32
ali1234assassin's creed is completely boring01:32
ali1234it's GTA without cars01:32
hamitronno cars! :(01:33
ali1234there is the odd horse and carriage, but i don't think you can steal them01:33
hamitronshoot the horses?01:33
directhexnot in AC101:33
directhexAC1 was really a tech demo01:33
ali1234well that's the only one i played01:33
ali1234i heard 2 was just more of the same01:33
directhexAC2 addressed every major criticism against the game01:34
hamitronfirst versions should NOT be a tech demo :/01:34
Seeker`hamitron: why not?01:34
Seeker`Is'nt that what crysis was?01:34
directhexhamitron: less priase for iD then. quake 3 was totally a sales pitch for the engine ;)01:34
Seeker`OR Portal01:34
Seeker`and Portal was a damn cool game01:34
ali1234portal was actually good01:34
HazRPGAC to me felt like I was playing Prince of Persia... except in 3D... with extra gimmicks01:34
hamitronif you buy a game, it shouldn't be half assed01:35
ali1234only about 20% as good as any random zelda game though01:35
=== PalaPad_ is now known as PalaPad
directhexhamitron: they already did PoP in 3d. with the critically acclaimed Sands of Time01:35
directhexthe jewel of the last generation01:35
Seeker`I've just started playing AC1 this evening, and I quite like it01:35
directhexali1234: zelda as a franchise is tired01:35
ali1234it's nowhere near as tired as "space marines in space"01:36
directhexbut at least those have been improving and evolving01:36
Seeker`anyone played mass effect?01:36
ali1234evolving isn't quite how i would describe it01:36
directhexi just gave up on twilight princess. it was just bad compared to other zelda-esque games like okami01:36
Seeker`playing through that for the first time, and thats good too01:36
directhexSeeker`: finished both.01:36
ali1234twilight princess was bad, i will give you that01:36
ali1234i gave up on it too01:36
HazRPGI can sum up most games over the recent years as ... "War! HUH! What is it good for!? Absolutely nothing! Say it again now..."01:36
ali1234but windwaker was probably the best of the rest01:37
shaunodon't think I've played console since n64 :/01:37
Seeker`HazRPG: dont play them then01:37
directhexlet me frame my historic feelings about zelda: http://apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/miscellaneous-junk/zelda3.jpg01:37
HazRPGdirecthex: yeah, I didn't like the new PoP's... should have left him as a 2D game01:37
ali1234but the problem with TP was that they put in too much of the things that make other games suck these days... like quick time events01:37
directhexHazRPG: i loved SoT.01:37
directhexali1234: shenmue has a lot to answer for01:38
ali1234also being a wolf sucked01:38
ali1234i mean it *really* sucked01:38
directhexbeing a wolf is awesome in okami though. yay okami.01:38
ali1234the rest of the game was fine01:38
HazRPGSeeker`: I don't! I just can't stand the number of "war, shoot shoot shoot, brain feel numb now... shoot shoot shoot" games01:39
Seeker`depends on how good the story is01:39
shaunowar's never been so much fun01:39
directhexwar. war never changes01:39
directhexYES! HIGH FIVE!01:39
hamitronit went quiet01:40
directhexHazRPG: i want to care about my protagonist and the world in which they engage. i want stories of fantastic deeds and faraway places. ultimately, i don't much enjoy multiplayer, and i don't like "realistic" war games01:40
hamitronto me, multiplayer if everything01:41
directhexbecause who cares? "terrorists win", big whoop. now what?01:41
HazRPGdirecthex: agreed - thus my name ;)01:41
ali1234i quite like properly realistic FPS games... that's about the only type i can play01:41
ali1234by properly realistic i mean the type where 1 shot kills you and anything other than camping is suicide01:41
hamitronmy greatest annoyance is these games you can't lose01:41
hamitronlike WoW.... if you could loot players you killed, it would be cool :)01:42
HazRPGhamitron: you mean the "respawn" factor? Or the "vision blurred = hide and recover HP" factor? (both annoy me)01:42
hamitronjust the risk of losing everything and having to start again01:43
hamitronmistakes should cost you01:43
HazRPGyeah exactly!01:43
HazRPGlike in an RPG, where you haven't saved for a while...01:43
HazRPGwhen you die... your dead!01:44
hamitronI never save.... unless I am closing the game01:44
HazRPGstart again01:44
HazRPGhamitron: adds more excitement does it ;)01:44
hamitronhell yeh01:44
directhexhamitron: you'd like steel battalion's hard mode ;)01:44
HazRPGshauno: wow really n64 was your last ever console of play?01:44
directhexhamitron: if you died, it erased your save01:44
hamitronwhat fun is a racing game, if you are allowed "flashbacks" wheny ou crash?01:44
ali1234when i play J-RPGs i always meticulously make individual saves at every point, and then *never* use them01:44
HazRPGdirecthex: rofl!01:44
hamitrondirecthex: :D01:45
HazRPGali1234: ha, I do that :P01:45
hamitronthat is how I play01:45
directhexthat game also came with a giant mech controller, the size of three xboxes01:45
directhexwith 40 odd buttons on it01:45
hamitronbut the "never losing" ruins MMO01:45
shaunoHazRPG: just haven't seen anything that grabbed my interesting in quite some time01:45
shaunodid pick up a gp2x for the emulators tho :)01:46
HazRPGshauno: just out of interest, what sort of thing do you like playing?01:46
hamitronI suppose the kiddies would not be happy with WoW if when they died, someone stole the cloth off their backs01:46
HazRPGshauno: nice!01:46
directhexi'm churning through dead space 2 right now, alongside mario galaxy (depending on mood)01:46
directhexthen will move on to the latest assassin's creed brotherhood DLC.01:46
HazRPGhamitron: would be amusing though :P - I mean other MMO's actually do it, why shouldn't WoW?01:47
hamitronlike eve online? ;)01:47
directhexthere is a death penalty in WoW01:47
directhexnot a big one, but it's there01:47
hamitronWoW hardcore mode, allowing looting01:47
HazRPGyou mean the "haha you'll die easier next time"?01:47
hamitronBlizard, pay me now01:48
HazRPGaka "Res Sickness"01:48
shaunoit's mostly the time lost in wow.  durability loss is pretty token now01:48
HazRPGthat's more of a nuisance than anything, It means people can stay near your corpse/spirit healer and kill you quickly time after time01:49
ali1234lol, resurrect you just to kill you again?01:49
directhexMMOs make poor RPGs01:49
shaunoyou only get rez sickness if you can't find/reach your corpse.  it's a fringe case most the time01:49
HazRPGali1234: yup... happened to me before, many a times01:49
directhex"kill ten wurbleburbles, and bring me back their skulls" is not roleplaying01:50
hamitrongrinding ;)01:50
HazRPGdirecthex: it has gotten better recently01:50
hamitroneve online would be cool, if there were no alts01:50
directhexHazRPG: okay, 8 wurbleburbles01:50
HazRPGdirecthex: there's a quest in cata now that you become an NPC on a horse01:50
ali1234hamitron: so true01:51
Seeker`WoW is good. Shame about all the idiots playing01:51
hamitronali1234: a true RPG01:51
hamitronno alt "spying"01:51
shaunoI don't think wow's bad at all.  I just had to draw a line at what becomes an obligation to play01:51
hamitronI liked WoW as a game01:51
directhexi think i will go sleep now01:52
hamitronI like sleep too01:52
Seeker`I quit this week after another guild turning in to 13 or 14 people that have a clue and 10 idiots going "WHY DON'T YOU RAID WITH ME! ZOMG I AM ENTITLED TO RAIDW ITH YOU!"01:52
HazRPGI liked WoW too... until I realised it was just the same thing over and over and over again01:52
hamitronthe monthly cost put me off mostly01:52
HazRPGhamitron: Runes of Magic will suit you, pretty much a WoW clone01:53
hamitronKnight Online is too01:53
shaunoI found the cost the least of the worries.  I mean, 8eur a month .. I smoke that in a day01:53
HazRPGshauno: same :P01:53
* hamitron is "careful" with money01:53
HazRPGspeaking of smokes, I'm out ... so need to go buy some!01:53
hamitronat the time I was a full time student and only £15 per week to live off01:53
shaunoother than smoking, I'm not silly with my money.  but I don't let fear of it own me01:54
HazRPGhamitron: y'ouch!01:54
HazRPGshauno: same, I try to spend wisely01:54
hamitronworked out about £10 for food01:54
HazRPGanyways, gonna go on an errand, brb01:54
hamitronlaters HazRPG01:55
Seeker`£8/mo is pretty good fot the number of hours of entertainmen01:55
hamitron£8 is01:55
Seeker`1 trip to the cinema, or as much playtime as you want01:55
hamitronbut I didn't have the money to spend on it ;/01:55
hamitronso i got Guild Wars01:55
HazRPGactually bbl, would probably be a better use of words/characters01:56
hamitronnow I just feel like quiting all off the shelf stuff01:56
hamitronjust seeing what I can do with my mind01:57
shaunointeresting, that paints you as much younger than I'd pictured01:57
hamitronyou picture me as an old fart?01:57
shaunoI'm not sure how old qualifies as fart, but certainly older than the last 10 minutes betray01:58
hamitronI'm only 2801:58
* hamitron looks at some open circuit designs01:59
hamitronwith a few years tinkering, must be amazing what can be done02:02
hamitronali1234: what would you recommand, like the arduino, but with a faster clock?02:03
* HazRPG sparks up02:03
ali1234how much faster?02:03
hamitronsay 300mhz+02:04
ali1234a beagleboard02:04
HazRPGheh I was going to say ARM02:04
HazRPGseems that's what a beagleboard has in it02:04
ali1234or a spartan3 and implement whateverit is that needs 300mhz in hardware02:05
hamitronany x86 cpu boards?02:05
ali1234yeah but you don't want them02:05
hamitronjust wondering, put a whole system on a FPGA02:06
hamitronfew other bits02:06
hamitronwham bam02:06
hamitronnew toy02:06
ali1234there is AVR32 as well but those are a bit esoteric02:10
HazRPGali1234: hmm, you should know... what's the green coating found on PCB's called?02:11
HazRPGbecause I'm guessing the green stuff is a coating to stop the copper oxidising02:12
ali1234it's also part of the soldering process02:12
HazRPGhmm, how so?02:12
ali1234well they put the green stuff on before the components02:13
ali1234and so the solder only sticks to the exposed pads, not the whole traces02:13
HazRPGhmm, I thought flux was used for soldering02:26
HazRPGhmm, shows what I know about soldering...02:33
HazRPGnever heard of tinning before02:34
hamitronthere are different methods02:34
hamitronnn all o/02:35
HazRPGhamitron: night dude02:35
HazRPGhaha, this seems like a great invention: http://www.youtube.com/user/CuriousInventor#p/u/30/ue6WYqYc81k03:09
HazRPGmight have to make my mum one for her dogs :P03:09
HazRPGooo, ali1234 you might like this: http://www.youtube.com/user/CuriousInventor#p/u/27/gXWCm-HmTq403:18
HazRPGHmm... should /usr/lib/indicator-applet/indicator-applet really be using 337M of RAM?05:40
HazRPGit says here 1166M of virtual memory for that same thread >_<05:40
MartijnVdSHazRPG: could be related to bug 68459905:57
lubotu3Launchpad bug 684599 in Network Manager Applet "Memory leak in nm-applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/68459905:57
HazRPGcould be06:02
MartijnVdSIt's one of those black hole bugs06:08
MartijnVdSit hasn't been fixed, but people aren't working on it06:08
MartijnVdSeven though it eats lots of memory06:08
HazRPGwell that's no good lol06:12
MartijnVdSIt's how lp works, sadly06:12
HazRPGwhat, that bugs don't get fixed? lol06:13
MartijnVdSno, that they get lost in a tsunami (ha) of other bugs06:13
HazRPGah heh06:13
HazRPGhaha love this game - good memories with sonic triple trouble of me and my uncle spending a whole day to try to finish the game :P06:54
AlanBellmorning all07:17
* AlanBell is on the reserve tank of internet today07:18
knightwisemorning everyone :)07:21
=== issyl0 is now known as Guest50072
knightwisehow is everyone today07:38
knightwisejust a couple more days to the launch of 11.407:38
PalaPadWaking up, just showered and shaved, will dress and head to breakfast, hotel life sucks07:39
knightwisePalaPad: at least you dont have to cook your own brekkie07:40
knightwisewhere RU at for the moment ?07:40
PalaPadAnd yeah looking forward to Brel IRS07:41
PalaPadStupid autocorrect07:41
knightwiseAndroid Phone ?07:41
PalaPadOk gonna finish dressing and head for breakfast, back in 30ish07:43
knightwisemorning daubers07:52
knightwisehow are you today07:52
daubersknightwise: nearly awake07:57
daubersstarted having some success with c++ last night (finally!)07:57
knightwiseaah , thats always good to hear08:01
knightwiseyou programming some stuff ?08:01
daubersReworking a few old programs I wrote in C++ to learn the language08:01
* knightwise released the podcatching script he made with the help of the #ubuntu-uk channel to the interwebs08:01
AlanBellfinal call for the quiz night date08:05
PalaPadMeh continental breakfast :(08:13
knightwisehey AlanBell08:14
knightwiseJapan thing is NOT looking good08:26
knightwiselooks like reactor 2 is exposed ?08:26
knightwisehey DJones08:28
DJoneshi knightwise08:28
knightwisehow are you today08:31
danfishDJones:Please keep that cockerel quiet - it just woke me up :p08:34
DJonesknightwise: Not bad, awake too early listening to the dawn chorus08:35
DJonesI think I'm going to have to be sneaky & pinch AlanBell's chickens08:36
* knightwise wish i didn't visualise that remark08:37
knightwisehey czajkowski08:39
knightwisehow are you08:40
andylockranhowdy all08:41
andylockranquick question - got a server with a loadavg always over 1.  iowait is negligible, and so is cpu usage - what other factors will be contibutary to the load?08:42
DJonesandylockran: That almost sounds like a homework question :)08:42
danfishandylockran: the national debt ;)08:45
andylockranDJones: indeed it does :p08:45
andylockranrandom that load on this myth backend never drops below 0.808:46
DJonesUgh, no wonder my computer is so slow, 20+ MS updates to install08:48
MartijnVdSDJones: ie9 )08:48
DJonesMartijnVdS: Nope, just "regular" security updates08:48
danfishthe only secure XP system is one that's powered off08:50
DJonesdanfish: Wake on lan, has to be unplugged as well :)08:50
* czajkowski has an itchy nose, this does not bode well08:51
danfishczajkowski: itchynoseitis. nasty :(08:53
DJonesWhere did I leave that pepper08:54
danfishDJones: v true. Let's encase in concrete to be certain08:54
czajkowskiI've no davmor2 to stab08:54
* czajkowski stabs MooDoo 08:54
DJonesdanfish: And drop it into the bottom of the ocean or into a volcano08:54
andylockran /wc by accident08:55
* knightwise suggests czajkowski could dip her nose in liquid nitrogen 08:55
czajkowskieh no08:56
danfishandylockran: what does powertop show on that mythbox?08:56
hoovermornin all09:02
* popey tops up AlanBell's internets09:07
* AlanBell thanks popey for the additional packet of packets09:07
popeyyou're welcome to come over to chez popey and use mine09:08
popey(I am at home today)09:08
andylockrandanfish: need to recompile kernel to get powertop working :s09:08
AlanBellthanks, but I think I will gatecrash TheOpenSourcerer's place soon09:08
daubersAlanBell: Why no interwebs?09:09
AlanBelladsl syncs, gets a connection speed, passes no packets09:09
daubers.... nice09:09
popeyis someone standing on the line?09:09
popeymorning kazade09:09
AlanBellI reported the fault and I should get a phone call about it within 48 hours apparently09:09
AlanBelllast time this happened it resolved itself after 24 hours or so09:10
kazadeo/ popey09:10
daubersTime for tea!09:40
DavieyAlanBell, Did you turn it off and on again? :)09:41
bigcalmAlways time for tea :)09:41
daubersNooooo!!! No clean mugs :(09:43
MooDoodaubers: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo09:43
nigelbDaviey: standard practice :p09:44
DavieyDoes any here have mysql server install on Maverick?09:49
* Daviey wakes up.09:49
MezDaviey: I do.09:50
kazadeDaviey, me too09:50
MezDaviey: why?09:50
DavieyOkay, great!  When you login, GDM greeter - do you see "MySql Server" as a login option?09:50
MezDaviey: no.09:51
MezDaviey: do this:-09:51
Mezgetent passwd | grep mysql09:51
DavieyNatty does, and i cannot work out why :)09:51
bigcalmMorning kids :)09:51
Mezand paste the output :)09:51
DavieyMez, I tried chaning the password from ! to *09:51
MezDaviey: I'm after the UUID09:52
Davieyin /etc/shadow09:52
MezUID *09:52
Mezhmm... Shouldn't be showing then09:52
DavieyI'm scratching my head :)09:52
nigelbDaviey: heh09:54
nigelbDaviey: nice bug :P09:54
MezDaviey: /etc/gdm/gdm.schemas - find the <key>greeter/Exclude</key> and add the user in there.09:55
mungojerryMez: nice tip09:56
DavieyI'm not convinced that is the issue09:57
Mezor change greeter/IncludeAll to false, and then just add the users you want to greeter/Include09:57
mungojerrydoes anyone know if https://twitter.com/sabdfl is really Mark S. twitter account?09:57
nigelbyeah, I think it is09:58
mungojerryi think he only used it when he was drunk during 2008 & 2009 then09:58
DavieyMez, can you, grep -i nobody /usr/share/gdm/gdm.schemas ?09:58
Mezgrep: /usr/share/gdm/gdm.schemas: No such file or directory09:59
DavieyMez, okay, looks like the location moved :)09:59
Mez      <default>bin,root,daemon,adm,lp,sync,shutdown,halt,mail,news,uucp,operator,nobody,nobody4,noaccess,postgres,pvm,rpm,nfsnobody,pcap</default>09:59
Mez(from /etc/gdm/gdm.schemas)09:59
DavieyMez, So... that doesn't have mysql either!09:59
DavieySeeing postgres did make me wonder.. :)10:00
popeymungojerry: it is his10:02
DavieyMez, can you just fix it please, kkthnxbye.10:02
popeyok, todays unity annoyance10:05
popeyhave a dual screen machine, with one app full screen on each display10:05
popeyyou have to click _in_ a window before you can grab the title bar to drag it out of full screen10:06
JamesTaitOh, and good morning, everyone!10:06
MezDaviey: /msg Daviey can you paste me the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow entries for mysql?10:06
Mezwow... fail10:06
mungojerrypopey: i know the beta isn't out yet but getting a working natty in time for release day isn't looking too good atm ?10:07
popeyi suspect this is working as designed10:08
popeycant help but point out that if they implemented focus follows mouse this issue would not happen10:08
mungojerryi find focus follows mouse nasty10:09
MezDaviey: try running usermod --expiredate 1 mysql10:09
DavieyI don't think that is it10:10
Davieyi'll try10:10
mungojerryi want gnome-terminal to remain in focus (and at front) while scrolling a firefox page - i do that all day long10:10
MezDaviey: and paste me the entries in the shadow/passwd for it :D10:10
Mezmungojerry: right click, always on top ? (or are you on about unity here?)10:12
mungojerrymez, that's true but it's a feature i use all the time, so it's best to be the default. i'm doing it right now in pidgin10:12
* Mez shrugs. As much as I like the fact that Ubuntu are mving with the times - if they force something like unity/gnome-shell on me - I may have to go back to KDE10:12
MezI'm glad they're not so far.10:13
DavieyMez, passwd is pasted about, shadow is: mysql:*:15046:0:99999:7::1:10:13
DavieyMez, I just tried expiredate, and that was no joy.10:13
mungojerryMez: open source always finds ways around problems :)10:14
MezDaviey: yeah, I can see that.10:14
MezDaviey: the only difference I see is that my password hash is ! (signifying locked password) rather than *10:15
DavieyMez, I really didn't like Unity - but i've been trying it since the weekend and the only real criticism i have - is that you have to used tabbed gnome-terminals rather than seperate windows.10:15
mungojerrymaybe i'm not very visionary but DE's seem to be looking towards tablets , even though 95% of us are still on desktops/laptops10:15
DavieyMez, Yeah, i changed that myself to test.10:15
mungojerryDaviey: middle click the terminal icon in unity10:15
MezDaviey: terminator ftw10:16
mungojerrygives you a fresh terminal. however to get to show list of open terminals we need to wait until somebody provides functionality like that of docky...or use docky :)10:16
MezDaviey: personally, unity has been awful for me every time I've tried it.  It wouldn't show any apps last time I tried it... also - it doesn't like dual monitors10:16
MezDaviey: I'll keep trying it - but personally, I can't see me liking it much.10:17
Mezanyways, gotta go call a man about a dog.10:17
mungojerryanyone use vmware vsphere?10:19
popeyi dont use tabbed terminals in unity10:19
DavieyMez, see -desktop btw10:20
Davieymungojerry, still working out how to middle click :)10:21
popey3 fingers10:21
mungojerryDaviey: 2 button mouse? mac?  middle click on the terminal icon in the launcher :P10:21
mungojerrythe best thing about working in academia is that you can perform software upgrades during the day :)10:22
popeyblimey, thanks for the middle click thing, i never knew that10:23
popeyso much to learn with unity10:23
mungojerrypopey: came from frustration10:23
mungojerryarrgghgh hey it works!10:23
Davieypopey, I struggle using two fingers concurrently, let alone 3 :)10:24
mungojerryi also like that you can run unity --reset from a vty session rather than requiring to be on the active X session10:24
screen-xmorning :)10:30
mungojerrymorning screen-x10:34
mungojerrygrrr i don't understand launchpad10:34
mungojerryi must be using it wrong..none of my bugs ever seem to see progress10:35
X3Nmungojerry: if you link to them here we could check them for you10:39
mungojerryx3n do you specialise in any app?10:39
MartijnVdSmungojerry: launchpad bugs = black holes10:39
X3NI get responses from my bugs..10:40
X3Nmungojerry: no, but I was more thinking that we could check that they're filed right more than anything else10:40
mungojerryX3N:  here's one, bug 607405 - i can reproduce it, and have linked to a crash report bug number too. am i right to mark it confirmed? is it my job to mark confirmed or someone else10:42
lubotu3Launchpad bug 607405 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "gwibber crashed with NameError in <lambda>()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60740510:42
mungojerrymind you , not sure about future of gwibber now that the author has gone to the dark side10:43
MadLeomondark side?10:44
X3Nhe's apparently got fed up with open source10:44
X3Nseems to be quite a bit of progress on that mungojerry10:45
directhexryan paul?10:45
mungojerryMadLeomon: directhex he's switched to apple now10:45
directhexevil! throw him in the de icaza shaped fire!10:46
mungojerryX3N:  am i right to mark it confirmed if i can reproduce?10:48
mungojerrythe rules don't seem clear.10:48
mungojerryparticularly if i uploaded crash logs10:48
* popey notes that ken van dyne does most gwibber work these days AFAICT10:51
popeynot Ryan10:51
mungojerrythats good to hear10:53
mungojerryi don't actively use it anymore due to performance issues, but i would use it again if they fixed those..10:54
popeymeh, I'm looking forward to a new better twitter client :D10:54
=== Nafallo_ is now known as Nafallo
mungojerryfrom kazade?10:55
mungojerryhow's your app getting on kazade10:58
* screen-x reads about twitter throwing its apps out the pram10:58
kazademungojerry, yeah, it's getting there just got past another hurdle10:59
kazadeI can now start implementing the last basic functionality (retweet/reply etc.)10:59
kazadeIt works as a twitter client though, I'm running it all the time10:59
mungojerrygood to hear kazade11:01
mungojerryscreen-x: yeah, twitter are dumb. if they want to make money they can either insert ads as compulsory tweets or have a twitter pro account if you have more than 250 followers or something11:02
screen-xmungojerry: hmm, I may need a new iphone compatible message bus.11:04
screen-xmungojerry: and, erm GO AWAY!11:04
mungojerryscreen-x: i understand your last message, but not the previous one :P11:04
mungojerryscreen-x: i made a deal that i would stay on irc so long as the drilling noise is going on11:05
screen-xmungojerry: ok, I'll stop yelling at you ;-)11:05
mungojerryand they stop spraying us with concrete dust :P11:05
mungojerrynice of you to care :P11:06
screen-xmungojerry: I use twitter to get notifications from monitoring systems, but if they are going to keep making it harder to write new apps/scripts, then I need a new way of pushing notifications to my phone.11:06
mungojerryscreen-x: yes, rather shortsighted of them11:06
mungojerrythere's always identica who publish api's i assume11:06
ubuntuuk-planet[Jo Shields] TWIDed. - http://apebox.org/wordpress/linux/374/11:07
mungojerryif twitter died tomorrow i would just revert to liferea RSS reader11:07
screen-xI wonder if there are identica clients that can push DMs to an iphone11:07
screen-xmungojerry: I still use google reader11:07
screen-xdoes identica even do DMs?11:07
screen-xidentica does do DMs.. and there is an official status.net iphone app, but it doesn't do notifications :(11:11
DJonesscreen-x: Are identica's DM's private, ie person to person, or do they appear in the public timeline, I thought I'd read somewhere that because identica itself was open, everything that was posted through it would also appear in a public timeline11:15
screen-xDJones: haven't tested it, I just read that the iphone client supports direct messages, not sure how it works.11:16
screen-xdidn't carry on investigating as it said notifications will be implemented in future (ie not yet) and that is my primary use case.11:17
mungojerryThe following data items are considered private data that won't be shared with other users, business partners, or the public at large:  your "private messages"11:17
brobostigonmorning everyone.11:17
DJonesmungojerry: screen-x Just read this "Direct messages will not show up in the public timeline. They will only be visible in the Inbox and Outbox tabs of your profile. If you receive a direct message, you'll be notified with an email containing the direct message and a link to reply to the message." So not what I though anyway11:21
mungojerrysounds like twitter then11:21
mungojerryexcept less trendy types11:22
=== denny_ is now known as denny
brobostigongood morning livingdaylight11:56
livingdaylightgm brobostigon11:57
livingdaylightwant to burn iso to disc. Option pops up to burn file or burn contents. Can someone advise me which is the correct for burning os.iso to dvd?11:58
DJoneslivingdaylight: What app are you using to burn with11:59
livingdaylightDJones, its default what ubuntu pops up when I slot dvd in11:59
livingdaylightlet me see11:59
DJoneslivingdaylight: I normally cancel that and just use gnomebaker which has an option to burn an iso12:00
livingdaylightCD DVD creator12:00
DJonesI would have thought it was burn file rather than contents though for an iso12:01
livingdaylightI think I used to do that too, but since it pops up everytime, like advertising I've finally succumbed to it12:01
livingdaylightit recognizes that its an iso and says so, presumably knows what its for then, yet gives me the option, thought I'd double check before wasting a dvd12:01
DJonesAs I've never used that app for burning an iso, i'm only guessing12:02
livingdaylightBrasero is the default burner in ubuntu?12:03
mungojerrythe wiki suggests right mouse click the iso and choose "write to disc"12:03
livingdaylightmungojerry, i've hat mixed luck with that method in the past12:03
dogmatic69if i have some folders that are owned by user 'git' and i need 'www-data' to access them, what is the best way?12:04
dogmatic69i could just chmod a+r but there must be a better way..12:05
mungojerrydogmatic69: are you serving the files via the webserver?12:07
mungojerrydepending on the group permissions, you could add git to www-data group, or vice versa12:08
dogmatic69mungojerry: yip gitview needs to show the repos on the web, and gitosis manages them with the git user12:09
AlanChickenyay, my internets are fixed12:14
directhexbok bok bok12:18
nigelbAlanChicken: did you turn it off and turn it back on?12:18
AlanChickensomeone did12:18
AlanChickenI can now ping my house12:18
nigelbdirecthex: hahaha12:18
nigelbAlanChicken: at TheOpenSourcerer's place?12:18
AlanChickenbut I have to go home and change my default gateway before I can ssh in12:19
dogmatic69nigelb: where are you in the uk?12:21
nigelbdogmatic69: nowhere :D12:23
nigelbdogmatic69: I'm in India :)12:23
dogmatic69#ubuntu-india :D12:24
mungojerryAlanChicken: why chicken?12:25
mungojerryi wondered but was too polite to ask :P12:25
directhexbok bok bok12:25
DJonesmungojerry: He has a chicken shed with chickens12:28
mungojerryfor eating or eggs12:28
brobostigonor both?12:29
czajkowskionly Eggs12:30
mungojerryit seems chickens can live for as long as some dogs do12:32
daubersStupid blasted python sockets12:32
daubersWhy on earth is it listening on one interface, but not the others12:32
AlanChickenmungojerry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7snWiHvpwc12:33
mungojerrymmm looks tasty12:35
DJonesAlanChicken: Has there been any conclusion on which came first yet?12:36
AlanChickensome people think the chickens come first, others think the eggs come first12:36
AlanChickenthey are all wrong12:36
AlanChickenthe chicken coop comes first, otherwise a fox will get them12:36
DJonesAlanChicken: :) I was just thinking that just as you said it12:37
kazadeobviously "Eggs" in general came before Chicken's evolved ;)12:38
kazadeDinosaur eggs for example :)12:38
* kazade ruins it12:38
mungojerryi remember dinosaur egg sweets12:38
mungojerrythey cam in a box so you could suck it for 2 hours and put it back till later12:38
* DJones seconds that12:39
* mungojerry quickly changes subject.12:40
mungojerrykernel 2.6.38 has been released http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_3812:40
dogmatic69could anyone help me out with the permissions, cant seem to get www-data reading user 'git' files12:43
dogmatic69ive done sudo usermod -a -G  git www-data and sudo usermod -a -G  www-data git12:43
mungojerrydogmatic69: what are the group permissions on the files owned by git12:44
dogmatic69groups git shows www-data and groups www-data shows git but still getting permission denied12:44
dogmatic69mungojerry: drwxrwx-w-12:45
mungojerryand the group owner?12:45
dogmatic69file_get_contents(/home/git/repositories/geneo1.git/description): failed to open stream: Permission denied [2]12:47
nigelbdogmatic69: AlanChicken hangs out in #ubuntu-in, so we're prettty much set ;)12:47
dogmatic69that particular file is -rw-rw-rw- 1 git git   39 2011-03-15 12:29 description12:48
dogmatic69nigelb: hehe12:48
mungojerrydogmatic69: have you tried making a test file in an alternative test directory?12:48
dogmatic69mungojerry: how you mean?12:48
mungojerrythere might be an issue with permissions /home/git directory not allowing access12:49
mungojerryi thought the files would be in /var/www/html or something12:50
dogmatic69ye, you think linux is not liking it due to being a home dir?12:50
mungojerrydogmatic69: well the git homedir may only allow rwx------ for git.12:52
dogmatic69mungojerry: dont think so12:52
dogmatic69mungojerry: what is does the d mean where there is a - here... -rwxrwxrwx12:55
dogmatic69others have drwxrwxrwx12:55
dogmatic69ive got it to sort of work but its just horrible12:56
dogmatic69chown to ubuntu and made it a+x -R12:56
dogmatic69but still not working proplerly12:56
mungojerrydogmatic69: hard to tell without seeing your machine, but in these cases it's always best to reduce to the simplest situation : e.g. make a /test/ directory, and play with permissions in there to establish that www-data can read files owned by git:git in there.. the many levels of parent directories in your real-world example add complexity, so best to make sure it works in a simple case first.13:04
czajkowskihttp://twitpic.com/49pno2  this is how people bribe me13:11
brobostigonwhat do people think of three, i am getting increasingly frustrated with o2's signal quality, and three's payg deals are much better than o2's.13:29
brobostigonwill three be any better,?13:31
directhexthree's signal will likely be worse13:32
brobostigonoh,not good, :(13:32
mungojerrybrobostigon: some network providers have detailed maps for you to check coverage to a fine level13:33
brobostigondirecthex: i have plugged in one of their free sims, into one of my old nokia's, to test signal.13:34
mungojerryi was able to check that t-mobiles coverage at my house is lame13:34
brobostigonmungojerry: i checked that it says the quality should be good.13:34
mungojerryo2 or 313:34
mungojerryit's worth checking the t&c13:35
brobostigonmungojerry: o2, has some very annoying signal blackspots.13:35
Laneyi thought three had a network share13:35
mungojerrybrobostigon: i find the same with t-mobile13:35
brobostigonmungojerry: i am just doing that.13:35
brobostigonmungojerry: including a nice big blackspot, in the front bar of my  favorite pub.13:36
=== Guest50072 is now known as issyl9
=== issyl9 is now known as issyl0
mungojerryt-mob and orange have a network share..not using it yet because android gives a warning when switching from tmob to orange on data13:37
screen-x"everything everywhere"13:37
mungojerryscreen-x: except for certain stations on my route home..13:37
screen-xmungojerry: the genious of the name is that it makes job titles sound awesome13:38
brobostigonny other advice/suggestions/ideas?13:38
mungojerrybrobostigon: get a free PAYG 3 sim13:39
mungojerryand test it for a week13:39
brobostigonmungojerry: done,got it ysterday,13:39
mungojerryalso , notify o2 of the blackspot in your fave pub :P13:39
brobostigonmungojerry: ihave done, they have said, its because of the old thick stone, shielding signal.13:40
popeybrobostigon: where I work the only network that gets rock solid connection inside the building is 313:40
brobostigonpopey: :)13:41
brobostigoniwill walkaaround blckspots with the free 3 sim, in my old nokia,and test.13:41
mungojerrybrobostigon: what's the 3 payg deal?13:44
brobostigonmungojerry: £15 (300mins 3000sms unlimited-data)13:47
mungojerrybrobostigon: similar to what i pay on my contract13:47
brobostigonmungojerry: ah, interesting.13:48
Azelphurgiffgaff do 250 mins unlimited texts unlimited data (no fup) for £10 :D13:48
Azelphurthat's what I'm on13:48
brobostigonthree have no FUP, on said plan either,13:48
brobostigonAzelphur: i will look at giffgaff aswell.13:49
* mungojerry feels happier knowing that there's always a workaround: setting your own whilelist for the notification area: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/how-to-hide-or-show-app-tray-applets-in-ubuntu-11-04/13:49
Azelphurbrobostigon: if you go with giffgaff lemme refer you we both get £5 xD13:49
brobostigonAzelphur: :)13:50
mungojerrywhat network does giffgaff use?13:50
mungojerryi think brobostigon wanted away from them :P13:50
Azelphuroh :P13:51
brobostigonfree mobile internet untill 31 mar 2011, :(13:51
mungojerrythen we kick you in the nuts13:51
lubotu3Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.13:51
AlanBellyay, I feel like myself again13:52
brobostigonAzelphur: they will have the same blackspots then, so not really alot of use-13:52
MyrttiAlanBell: and not a chicken?13:53
AzelphurI see :)13:53
Azelphurthen yea I'd say next best bet is 3, they have more 3g coverage than anyone else13:53
brobostigonAzelphur: yes,iwould agree. verytrue.13:53
mungojerryi rarely get 3g on tmob...usually 2g..fortuantely i am mostly connected via wifi13:54
Myrttianyone else use dabr for twitter?13:54
brobostigonmungojerry: 3g on o2, here is distinctly patchy, very similer.13:55
brobostigonok, i have some jobs to dointown, be backlater.13:56
AzelphurI just speedtest.net'd 3498kbps / 1698kbps on giffgaff :)13:57
AzelphurIronically I just speedtest.net'd 0.9mbps on my landline.... *sigh*13:57
dogmatic69mungojerry: fixed with a .htaccess rewrite rule o.o13:58
dogmatic69deleted every thing, started over, read the docs...13:58
dogmatic69never seen "RewriteRule ^([^.]*).git/(.*)   ?a=co&p=$1&r=$2" fix permission problems before...13:59
popeyloving the 2Mb/s up!14:04
popeythats faster than my ADSL down used to be!14:04
Azelphurpopey: 2Mb/sec on virgin cable? that's a bit depressing14:05
AzelphurI almost get that on my phone14:05
Azelphuryup, up14:05
AzelphurI just did a speedtest.net from my phone and got 1.6 up14:05
popeyoh, so i see14:05
AlanBellhttp://www.speedtest.net/result/1202943383.png me today14:05
popeyAlanBell: D! Back of the class!14:06
AlanBellyeah :(14:07
Azelphurhttp://speedtest.net/result/1202928116.png going for the high score :D14:07
gordi get pretty good up compared to my down, but still crap =\ http://www.speedtest.net/result/1202945809.png14:07
mungojerrythe speedtest dial only goes up to 10014:08
Azelphurgah I can't even play minecraft, I connect and time out :(14:08
* popey wants to find someone who can identify the song in the latest charlie brooker program14:11
popeyhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zg1rh 24 mins in - NSFW probably14:11
gordpopey, you don't have one of those apps on your phone that can do that?14:11
popeyhe's talking over it14:12
Azelphurwow, my internet is so broken :(14:13
AzelphurI can't even read my email, god alone knows how I'm on IRC14:13
* mungojerry likes a challenge14:16
Myrttipopey: was that the hooray for the na*is part?14:16
popeyjust before that yes14:16
popeystarts just as he explains the premice of the program14:17
popeysnare drums, piano, then some kind of wooden thing, xylophone maybe14:17
mungojerrythe song that goes bumbumbumbumdidibumbumbum14:17
=== Craig_Dem_ is now known as Craig_Dem
ballmungojerry: "Goodness Gracious Me!"14:20
mungojerrywhat have i done now?14:21
ballHow do I put my rubbish bin back where it's supposed to be?14:21
ballmungojerry: That's the title of the song that goes "bumbuddibumbuddi..."14:21
mungojerrypopey: there's a website for people like you http://www.whatsthatcalled.com/forum/index.php?showforum=1614:22
* popey signs up14:22
mungojerrythought you were maplins1 :P14:23
* ball misses Maplin14:24
ballThey used to sell a high-res kit for the ZX8114:25
DJonesball: Was Maplins around when teh ZX81 was out? I could understand Tandys being around, or maybe even Tandy's became Maplin14:27
DJonesI didn't realise Maplins was that old, 1st store in 197514:28
mungojerryall those guys from the 80s are dead - sinclair/commodore/acorn (except as part of ARM) ..wonder who will be dead in 20 yrs...nokia, ...14:29
DJonesmungojerry: Not quite all dead, Apple are still around :)14:30
mungojerryDJones: apple weren't on my radar as a young lad. and MS baled them out too14:30
popeymungojerry: http://www.whatsthatcalled.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1581314:30
popeynone of those companies is dead technicall14:31
popeyAmstrad owns Sinclair14:31
popeyCommodore name has been passed around over the years but still exists14:31
popeyAcorn became ARM didnt they?14:31
popeyand yes, I expect Nokia to die soon :(14:32
mungojerryalso Acorn guys -> Psion -> Symbian -> Nokia -> RIP :(14:34
balorAbout a million years ago (or so) there was a native Android thing/VM/davlik implementation for Ubuntu.  Is this still around?14:35
ballpopey: ARM was spun off from Acorn.  The remainder of Acorn went on to concentrate on things like set-top boxes for cable TV14:36
ballI forget their new name.14:36
DJonesWe can't forget the other Acorn offshoot ... "Acorn Antiques" :)14:39
Azelphurdamn, there is something seriously wrong with minecrafts networking code xD14:39
AzelphurI'm having a conversation with someone in game, and watching the CraftIRC relay14:39
mungojerryHerman hauser must be absolutely loaded14:39
Azelphurand they are replying in game to what I'm typing, before what I'm typing even shows up on my client14:39
Azelphurso like, I say "Hi", It comes up in IRC, Someone replies, Then I see myself say "Hi" in game like 50 seconds later XD14:40
DJonesAzelphur: It could just be your internet connection14:40
AzelphurIt could be, I need to do a speedtest to my server and see what I get14:41
Azelphurnot amazing, 64KB/sec14:43
mungojerrywhat's the latency14:44
* DJones offers Azelphur a freshly fed & watered carrier pidgeon14:44
Azelphurwhat's the uuk minecraft server?14:45
AzelphurI'll try connecting to that and see what's going on14:45
Azelphuryep, I've downloaded like 3 chunks and got no further :P14:47
Azelphurand now it crashed \o/14:48
AzelphurI clearly broke it with my amazing powers :(14:48
Azelphurlol I see a squid swimming through the air :D14:49
Azelphurfly little squid, fly!14:49
Myrttihome made tom yum gai ♥15:02
popeyright, best get kids from school15:04
Azelphurjust tried minecraft on my netbook and got the same issues, tethering to my phone now to try :)15:08
DJonesCan somebody look at the video file on this website at about 3 minutes 20 seconds and let me know whether the "planned" road layout is insane http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/environment_and_planning/planning/heritage_natural_environment/landscape/design_and_management/regeneration_projects/poynton_village_centre/poynton_-_the_future_video.aspx15:45
DJonesThere's about 20-30 seconds after that of suicidal pedestrians crossing the road, I'm sure the designer must have spent their childhood playing Lemmings15:46
mungojerryDJones: you mean the roundabouts15:48
Myrttiaw, I should've made double the amount of the soup15:48
mungojerrydouble roundabouts are insanity IMO and should only occur as a temporary workaround to fixing a real problem15:49
mungojerryas the picture demonstrates, there is already potential for problems in their mockup15:49
mungojerrylooks like the congestion problems i get in sim city when accidentally remove a road tile15:50
Myrttiroundabouts are a cheap way of managing traffic flow in places where traffic signals would probably be better15:50
mungojerryMyrtti: these are DOUBLE roundabouts15:50
mungojerryconjoined twins15:50
Myrttithe only place where roundabouts make more sense is out of the town, where there isn't enough traffic to warrant traffic signals15:50
DJonesMyrtti: There are already traffic signals where they're planning on putting these double roundabouts15:50
Myrttimungojerry: double roundabouts are even more useless15:51
mungojerryDJones: are the video makers against the idea?15:51
MyrttiI don't understand the great love britons have for roundabouts15:51
mungojerrythey look like they are15:51
directhexroundabouts manage flows in a different way to signals15:51
directhexnot better or worse. different15:51
jpdsroundabouts are brilliant for cyclists.15:51
DJonesmungojerry: Thats the planners video showing how well its going to work :)15:51
mungojerryDJones: surely not :(15:51
mungojerrylook at the jams!15:52
mungojerrythe best traffic management is to put in traffic lights and cut the power - seems to work well round my way when there's a traffic light failure15:52
DJonesmungojerry: Yep, look at the pedestrians scurrying across that middle bit of the two roundabouts, I'm sure some of them get run over15:52
mungojerryDJones: yeah, where's the articulated lorry driver supposed to be looking?15:52
mungojerryyou need a codriver to navigate thatroundabout15:53
directhexhere's the thing: if you look at their plans, the accidents are focused on stretches of clear straight road15:53
Myrttimeh, my hypochondria isn't going away :-(15:54
directhex"shared spaces" is the fancy term for "get rid of all the signs and markings, so every driver needs to be shitting themselves & concentrating hard in order to not die"15:54
directhexresearch shows it's actually genuinely successful - concentrating drivers kill fewer people15:54
mungojerryMyrtti: i hope it's not catching15:54
directhextheir roundabout plan looks zany and hard - but as part of a shared space design, i suspect that's the point15:54
DJonesI don't know about a co-driver, I'd want beta blockers, a bottle of vodka & a blindfold15:55
directhexnotice the lack of actual roundabout middles. it's planned chaos15:55
mungojerrydirecthex: where i work, pedestrians don't even understand that you need to press a button to make the lights change.15:55
DJonesdirecthex: That description of "Shared spaces" is a brilliant way of putting it15:55
mungojerryand the drivers don't have mental faculty to concentrate15:55
directhexDJones, it's true though. and it *does* work15:55
Myrttidirecthex: I'd love the drivers to concentrate also on not killing anyone else15:56
directhexMyrtti, that's the point. drivers can't just go in autopilot in a shared space15:56
mungojerrythere should be a subway or footbridge to remove the dead pedestrians from the equiation15:56
directhexthey're more alert, so they react15:56
MyrttiI hate roundabouts, especially here where the car drivers have 0 respect for pedestrians15:56
mungojerryMyrtti: i think its because there's too much else to look at15:57
directhexoh hells, that's what they did with my estate... that's why there are no markings on the re-paved sections!15:57
directhexthat or they're lazy15:57
MyrttiI'd be rich if I'd be given a tenner everytime I see a driver ignore the "yield" triangle when driving into a roundabout with zebra crossings. They don't seem to notice the fact the sign is *before* the zebra crossing, not after it.15:57
directhexDJones, i've never seen the shared space principle applied to staggered roundabouts, but it's effective in town centers15:58
mungojerrywhen i went to paris i stood for ages on top of l'arc de triomphe at the chaos below, wondering how they weren't crashing16:00
DJonesmungojerry: From what I remember of traffic in paris, they weren't crashing because they never moved in the traffic jam16:05
mungojerryDJones: oh, it was chaos at high speed when i saw it..rather fun16:06
mungojerrybit like the first corner of a grand prix16:06
PendulumDJones: my family's fairly certain there must be some sort of supernatural force involved that keeps them from crashing16:09
mungojerrysomebody called mark shuttleworth posted on OMG..didn't realise that he reads it16:14
X3Nmungojerry: link?16:18
X3Nalthough given his last out pourings I'm not sure I want to read..16:18
mungojerryX3N: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/thunderbird-unity-extension-ready-for-testing/#comment-16603084916:19
szymon_gthanx for link, nice extension btw16:20
mungojerrydespite the occasional odd behaviour from members of their team, omg are bringing some good unity stories lately, esp. with jcastro et al joining in16:21
* bigcalm looks in for a moment16:26
* DJones looks out of the window 16:32
Myrttihm, I'm almost considering getting more chicken and mushrooms to make more soup16:36
szymon_g"mushrooms"? they are only good with sauerkraut :)16:42
Myrttithey're brilliant in tom yum gai16:43
szymon_g"tom yum gai"? whats that?16:44
szymon_ghi kaushal16:44
kaushalhow do i install 32 bit libraries on 10.10 desktop running 64 Bit os ?16:45
kaushalszymon_g: hi16:45
DJonesszymon_g: I looked it up before, from memory, thai sweet & spicy chicken soup16:46
szymon_gapt-get install ia32-libs ← kaushal16:46
szymon_ghm... sounds nice. i like thai curry16:47
Myrttiszymon_g: spicy and sour thai chicken soup16:47
szymon_gkaushal, those are "standard" 32 libraries, pretty generic. depending what do you want to install you may need to get other libraries16:47
MyrttiBF has a flu so it fits the bill16:47
DJonesI normally have Chilli when I've got a cold, the hotter the better16:48
kaushalszymon_g: ok16:49
Myrttiwe've dated for good three years soon and this is about the first time I've seen him with flu16:49
szymon_gMyrtti, its called "man's flu" ;)16:50
popeyyoutubed for easier identification!16:50
popeyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXLHWmjA5IE <- man cold16:51
popeymungojerry: that guy (concious user) reads and replies to stuff a lot, he's active in ayatana16:51
mungojerrypopey: however i was unaware that sadbfl read omg...however he said somewhere he likes reddit so..16:52
bigcalmsadbfl or sabdfl?16:54
bigcalmJust checking ;)16:54
mungojerrynot intended16:54
bigcalmAh, fair enough :)16:55
Myrttiszymon_g: I'm the one with the more violent sicknesses... *shrug*16:55
szymon_gyeah. i understand. that time of the month16:56
Myrttiyou can tell that to the Clexane shots I'll probably need to have everytime I travel by air in the future...16:58
DJonesMyrtti: Clexane, nasty, you my every sympathy with those16:58
DJonesThey seem to be a bit of a family tradition for my wife, her mum & aunties16:59
MyrttiDJones: homozygotic F V Leiden... I've failed in the luck lottery lately17:00
DJonesMyrtti: I hadn't heard of that, with my wife, its Hughes Syndrome - Sticky blood17:01
szymon_go.O that sounds creepy17:03
DJonesMyrtti: We were on holiday last year and her legs swelled up the day before we were due to come home, she ended up spending an extra week in hospital with clexane injections17:04
MyrttiI like the probability numbers. In comparison to normal women without oral contraceptives, who have the chances of 1:125000 to get a DVT or pulmonary embolism, I've been blessed with the probabilities of ... <drumroll>1:150</drumroll>17:04
szymon_gMyrtti, is it, somehow, dangerous?17:04
DJonesMyrtti: Are you on any of the precautinary medication, warfarin etc17:05
Myrttino, but I'm wearing flight socks as we speak and stopped some of my medication. Got the specialists opinion here that says nothing can be done apart from preventive Clexane when I fly or am pregnant, the flight socks, non-hormonal contraception and losing weight.17:06
MyrttiFinns don't have official instructions what to do for preventing a blood clot in my case, only what to do when I've had one.17:07
Myrttiwhich, of course, sucks.17:07
Myrttic'est la vie17:07
Myrtti(that has become my motto lately)17:08
DJonesThat side certainly doesn't sound good, mother-in-law is on warfarin, has to get checked out every week to check the levels17:08
PendulumMyrtti: you're the 3rd person in about 2 weeks I've known either get diagnosed or tested17:08
Pendulum(and that's not counting the people who already were diagnosed)17:08
MezMyrtti: That sucks.  DVTs are bad - but I hate the way that they only ever link it to pulmonary embolism... There are so many things that it can cause (Stroke/Cardiac Failure etc)17:16
Myrttimethinks minecraft is in order17:30
bigcalmAre you making anything?17:30
MyrttiI seem to be doing nothing since I can't connect to my usual server...17:32
directhexi wonder if there are plans for a minecraft nuclear reactor...17:32
shaunoI think you'd need something a bit more interesting than lava.  turning it into cobble isn't very exciting17:34
MartijnVdSlava + pressure cooker = diamond?17:34
MartijnVdSwould that work for you? :)17:34
screen-xmmmm nuclear reactor surrounded by creepers17:36
Cepheusmore like coal + pressure cooker17:36
shaunothat said, I think all the reactor stuff is completely over-done.  guess it sells more news than worrying about the rest of the side effects of the quakes17:36
MartijnVdSCepheus: + lava (to heat said pressure cooker) :)17:43
CepheusMartijnVdS: sounds like a winning combo17:43
* Tan says hi17:54
szymon_ghi Tan17:54
screen-xevening :)18:11
sladenoly_: (assuming you're the same person as on AskUbuntu), do you have a solution to your kernel .config question?18:29
oly_nope doubt its me, not even aware of askubuntu :p18:30
sladenoly_: okay!  (if you're interested, it's  http://askubuntu.com/  )18:31
=== cbx333 is now known as cbx33
=== roman is now known as Guest46219
X3Nhello sladen18:44
sladenX3N: muwahahah GNOME events boxes.  Missed my Eurostar cos of those18:57
X3Nagh :|18:59
X3NI wonder how useful it is these days19:00
X3Ngiven that hardware isn't so precious19:00
X3NI remember lugging it across reading to london, not something i'd ever want to do again heh19:01
MartijnVdS\o czajkowski19:45
hamitronwell, comp desk sorted19:53
=== AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
nucc1is there some way i can determine the highest resolution timer available on my machine?20:26
nucc1i suppose current linuxes use nanoseconds.20:27
* hamitron spanks Azelphur 20:34
hamitrondid you find a buyer for that psu?20:34
dogmatic69nucc1: clock ticks20:34
dogmatic69dont know if/how you can use them, but they are around20:34
=== chris_ is now known as Guest88200
hamitronso annoying when you buy bits, and some old bits you used to use decide to not work when building a seperate machine20:40
hamitronI got a RAID 0 array with an error now20:40
nucc1dogmatic69, thanks. seems straightforward to do from C. In any case, calling System.nanoTime() from Java gives me a result that is in nanoseconds. It's good enough.20:40
MartijnVdShamitron: This is why people don't use RAID 020:40
hamitronMartijnVdS, I only use it for transcoding video20:41
MartijnVdShamitron: ah it's "swap"20:41
hamitronsort of, yeh20:41
hamitronbut I was lazy and left a few things on there20:42
hamitronso may of paid the price20:42
hamitronappears to be my "program files" folder20:43
MartijnVdSFace, meet palm20:43
hamitrongot a dodgy PSU20:43
hamitronthat or I've overloaded it20:44
hamitroncheap ass thing20:44
hamitrononly cost 7 quid ;)20:44
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: More Events, More Needed! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/03/15/ubuntu-global-jam-more-events-more-needed/21:07
shaunobattenberg .. om nom nom nom21:25
bigcalmI'm not a marsipan fan21:27
* hamitron neither21:27
hamitronbbl, coffee, food and testing bits21:27
shaunothat's cool.  I wasn't offering to share :p21:28
ali1234what do people actually do at these global jam events?21:30
bigcalmEat toast?21:32
Laneylots of pectin21:40
bigcalmI think I've been in the office for long enough today. Time to take the laptop to bed21:41
zleapwhen is the next podcast due ?21:42
AlanBellzleap: they just this second finished recording it21:42
zleapok cool21:43
zleapso i should be able to download it shortly,  thanks21:43
AlanBellin the next couple of days21:43
zleapok cool21:43
=== AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | Jam \o/
popeyzleap: tomorrow21:51
zleapok thanks21:52
=== bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm
ali1234so is askubuntu.com like a sub-section of stack exchange, or is it separate?21:55
ali1234eg does my askubuntu.com login work on stack exchange?21:56
popeythe former21:56
ali1234ok, cool21:56
popeywell, no21:56
popeybut they aggregate your logons21:56
ali1234oh... :)21:56
popeyor something21:56
ali1234if i search on stack exchange, is it possible to find the content on askubuntu?21:56
popeydunno if there is a cross site search21:57
ali1234i guess i can ask on meta :)21:57
popeywell, there is, its google :)21:57
HazRPG\o howdy all22:12
dogmatic69anyone know how i can check what ppa is running?22:14
dogmatic69apt-get dist-upgrade works22:15
* dogmatic69 cries22:15
ali1234fail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-1275140422:16
ali1234stupid idea badly executed :(22:17
dogmatic69almost as much fail as my site...22:17
dogmatic69apt-get dist-upgrade ~= 503 errors :(22:18
AlanBellI have no idea how you would enginer a digital clock to fail like that22:18
dogmatic69AlanBell: run it off a windows box22:18
AlanBellI can understand it going off22:18
AlanBellor all segments on22:19
AlanBellbut stopping is a curious failure mode22:19
ali1234running it off any kind of programmable computer is just asking for trouble22:19
ali1234asic timers have been around for years22:19
AlanBellit is a 101 logic programming exercise22:19
ali1234actually you could still get that freezing even without a computer to crash22:21
ali1234if it has shift registers (which it will to drive the LEDs) they will hold the last value even if the asic blows up22:21
AlanBellprobably relays to control the segments actually, logic circuits won't light them up directly22:22
ali1234itym power transistors :)22:23
AlanBellyeah, or them22:23
ali1234but you can get integrated shift registers/ led drivers in 1 chip anyway...22:23
* AlanBell did basic electronics 20 years ago22:23
ali1234eg http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/490922:24
AlanBellI bet they tried to be smart and use the GPS clock signal or something22:25
ali1234ugh, no22:25
ali1234like i said last night, i have an alarm clock that does that22:25
ali1234and it is consistently 15 minutes slow22:25
ali1234because the designers forgot to take into account the ephemeris adjustments22:26
gordhehe, maybe you are 15 minutes "into" the time zone? ;)22:26
ali1234gord: when it was new it was right22:26
gordwas just being silly22:26
HazRPGerm... apparently commodore are remaking the 64's again!22:51
HazRPGhowever don't all rush at once, its using all singing all-dancing tech of the current era22:52
HazRPGIntel Atom processor and Realtek sound card, along with nvidia for the graphics card22:52
HazRPGhttp://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx <== check it22:52
hamitronHazRPG, how much it cost?22:56
HazRPGhamitron: no price yet, they haven't made them yet22:56
ali1234it's just a PC with a C64 logo on it22:57
hamitronali1234, and?22:57
ali1234well, quite22:57
HazRPGits got a boot loader at startup to select the C64 O/S (emulated apparently), and you can install "windows" as it states22:57
hamitronso basically dual boot22:58
HazRPGyeah, but it sounds like they're doing it PS3 style22:58
HazRPGGameOS + OtherOS styley22:58
ali1234they probably just put vice on it22:58
ali1234in a small linux image22:58
HazRPGmost likely lol22:58
hamitronwell worth the extra 200 quid22:59
hamitronor whatever they think they can get22:59
HazRPGhowever I have a feeling they'll be designing it to run with the full 2GB RAM, etc22:59
hamitronwhat c64 game needs that? ;/22:59
HazRPGwould be pointless putting the SD card, CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive - if the C64 part couldn't use all of that22:59
hamitronthat is for loading your game "images"23:00
hamitronthat they will charge for?23:00
ali1234wii virtual console anyone?23:00
ali1234except that the games on there are actually good :)23:00
HazRPGits essentially an emulator... so I don't see why the disk images wouldn't work on this, or at least hacked to use them23:00
hamitronC64 Network \o/23:00
hamitron99p each23:01
hamitron500kb downloads23:01
ali1234C64 games are nowhere near 500kb23:01
hamitroneven with modern encryption and copyright protection?23:01
ali1234the thing only has a 16 bit address bus23:02
hamitronbut it looks cool anyway23:02
hamitronI think I've decided about my phone23:03
HazRPGthe new/old c64?23:03
hamitronI wanna convert my Spectrum ZX into a side talking beast23:03
HazRPGI was close :P23:03
hamitronI don't have a C64 to convert23:03
hamitronalso, everyone here seems C64 crazy23:04
hamitronand I like to be different23:04
hamitronsuppose a Spectrum ZX 128 +2 would be better, so could use the built in cassette for voice mail23:06
ali1234Z80 is much nicer to program than 650223:07
hamitrondon't you think ARM is best choice?23:08
ali1234they are not comparable23:08
HazRPGheh apparently commodore are doing a new like of computers too, along with a new line of amigas too23:10
HazRPGCommodore Phoenix23:10
ali1234it's all vapour23:10
HazRPGand Amiga 1000, 2000, 300023:10
ali1234they've been talking about that stuff for years23:10
HazRPGali1234: don't worry I know ;)23:10
ali1234and it's not commodore, it's just some company that bought the name23:11
ali1234actually the commodore name has been owned by several such companies over the past 10 years, none of which ever did anything with it, despite lots of talk23:11
hamitronif the PC market gets much more boring, there may be more of a call for something basic23:11
ali1234it's probably more like 15 years now23:11
ali1234how can you say PC market is boring?23:12
ali1234it's *always* been boring23:12
ali1234that's the main appeal23:12
hamitronearly 90s was more fun23:12
ali1234not if you had a PC23:12
hamitroneven mid 90s23:12
hamitronI am comparing a PC from then, with now23:13
hamitronnow you plug stuff in and it just works :/23:13
hamitronno IRQ and that23:13
hamitronconfiguring I mean23:13
ali1234nobody actually wants to do that stuff23:14
hamitrona shame23:14
ali1234nobody ever did23:14
hamitronthere are many "geeks" who don't even know about IRQ now23:15
ali1234they're not geeks, they are just pretending23:15
hamitronhence the ""23:15
hamitronbut it was easier to considering modding stuff23:16
hamitronor even designing stuff23:16
ali1234all of that stuff is as easy today as it was then23:16
ali1234in fact it is easier since you don't have to pay $2000 for an oscilloscope23:16
hamitronI can't see how people are gonna learn stuff like opengl in the future23:17
HazRPGhamitron: hmm... you make the IRQ sound like its something to wow over, isn't it just an request interrupt :/23:17
HazRPGor something like that23:17
ali1234the same way they learn it now, by buying the red book...23:17
hamitrondepreciating the older methods removes the first step23:18
stuart__Hello, I'm having a bit of difficulty getting accents, ie graves and umlats (spellign bda) to work. Now i have tried just about all that I can find. Additionally, I am working under xfce, but not from a xubuntu install.23:18
dogmatic69how many people even know what is ram23:18
hamitronmy spelling is not good :/23:18
ali1234stuart__: in what program?23:19
dogmatic69not 'it stores stuff', but what saves the bits23:19
stuart__Any program.23:19
ali1234stuart__: such as?23:19
stuart__gedit, leaf pad. pigeon.23:19
HazRPGstuart__: ah, that sounds like a keyboard layout issue23:20
stuart__Basically, the compose key doesn't work as it ought to.23:20
HazRPGyou mean the key that does: `¬23:20
stuart__Well it is a uk keyboard. On an asus eee 1005ha. I can set compose to alt_gr/ralt but I still can't get it to work properly.23:21
stuart__And I can go ¬23:21
HazRPGdogmatic69: heh, if they've been to college they ought to know what RAM is... we designed a small RAM chip in Digital Works for our Hardware class23:21
dogmatic69ali1234: o.o23:22
dogmatic69most people dont get that all the fancy stuff is just made up of tiny resistors etc23:22
ali1234ok so i did that by typing alt gr + / then a letter or alt gr + ? then a letter23:22
HazRPGstuart__: hmm... I'm confused, so you have a UK layout keyboard... what kind of layout are you expecting?23:23
stuart__nah. not having it.23:23
hamitronwiring up d-type flip-flops is totally different to doing ++c; though23:23
ali1234that was alt gr + ~ followed by u23:23
ali1234so you need to type alt-gr + accent you want, then the letter23:24
stuart__This I know. It just doesn't wanna do it.23:24
HazRPGali1234: I get this by press alt gr + ~ a few times: `23:24
HazRPGdoesn't do anything the first time though23:24
ali1234that's so you can make letters with accents like ŭ23:25
ali1234anyway, it does seem likely to be a problem with keymaps23:25
HazRPGali1234: ah, I'm with you23:26
HazRPGso you have to press alt gr + ~, then release and press the key you'd like the accent23:26
ali1234or perhaps xfce is using alt-gr for some kind of modifier23:26
stuart__I am not sure...23:27
stuart__Under 'gnome-keyboard-settings' the settings can be set. But afaik, I also had this problem under gnome...23:27
HazRPGstuart__: I'm guessing your doing alt gr + ~ then pressing the letter you want an accent with... because that's what I had to do23:28
stuart__I have tried about everything. I had it working before, a long time ago and alt-gr ~ a thing did work.23:32
HazRPGstuart__: open up terminal, and type in the following: sudo showkey23:32
HazRPGtype in your password23:32
HazRPGand then press the ALT GR key when it asks you to press a key23:32
HazRPGthe output should say keycode 100 press, keycode 100 release23:33
HazRPGif its showing something else, then its assigned as a different key23:33
HazRPGstuart__: its showing 100?23:34
stuart__A press and a release.23:34
HazRPGtry the other alt key23:34
HazRPGit should show 5623:34
stuart__The keys do work. They just aren't allowing a compose.23:35
HazRPGyeah I guessed the keys were working, I was just making sure that the alt gr key was actually registering as being an alt gr key23:36
ali1234create a new user and log in to gnome with that user23:36
stuart__I will have to log out as i did turn off multiple user thingy.23:37
ali1234if that works, log in to xfce with that user23:38
ali1234if it doesn't work, something is really wrong...23:38
HazRPGstuart__: try this... this will hopefully rule out if the keyset is the issue or not23:38
hamitronso ali123423:40
HazRPGCTRL+SHIFT+U ... then release the U key (but keep hold of CTRL+SHIFT), then type 0102 - then release the CTRL+SHIFT key23:40
hamitronwhat you think to the fixed function pipeline in opengl?23:40
ali1234it's pretty lame23:40
hamitronnot good for learning?23:40
ali1234it's easy to learn, but what is that knowledge good for?23:41
ali1234books are good for learning23:41
hamitronfor practical applications nothing, but practising using it lets you get your head around the 3d way of things23:42
hamitronlack of serial ports upset me also23:42
ali1234you know most of the matrix transformations in opengl are done in software right?23:42
ali1234all the matrix stack stuff23:43
ali1234push and pop23:43
ali1234it's all software in nearly all opengl implementations23:43
hamitronold stuff is still supported too23:43
ali1234which means removing the fixed function pipeline has absolutely no effect on your ability to use this, or similar apis23:43
ali1234what you describe as "the 3d way of things" is actually just vector/matrix math23:44
ali1234all 3d engines implement their own version because the stuff in opengl 1.0 is kind of rubbish23:44
ali1234and the whole push/pop method of calculating a scene graph is all backwards to the way you do it in a scene graph anyway23:44
hamitrona noobie learning doesn't want to learn everything at once though :)23:45
ali1234what is to learn?23:45
ali1234the mathematical concepts are extremely similar when you remove all the push/pop and gltranslate nonsense23:46
hamitronit just gets you thinking I suppose23:46
ali1234if you can conceptualize what it means to multiply together two matrices, the rest is trivial23:46
ali1234and that's better served by watching a video or something23:47
hamitronI can't see why so much effort / time was spent putting the system in place in 3.0 to deprecate stuff23:47
ali1234because the programmable pipeline can be programmed to act like fixed function23:47
ali1234so it's just pointless duplicated code :)23:47
ali1234this is how most GPUs are doing it now anyway23:48
hamitronkk :) so you think they will leave it functioning for a good time yet?23:48
hamitronif that is done, I'm happy23:48
hamitronI am an opengl newbie, and just feel "left behind" by the talk of deprecating stuff used in learning materials23:49
ali1234well yeah23:50
ali1234this is why there is no point learning fixed function :)23:50
ali1234the new stuff is radically different23:50
hamitronI've pottered around with 3 different things so far23:50
ali1234but you would be better off learning to use a 3d engine first23:51
ali1234one that has a scene graph23:51
hamitronthe early stuff I find easier to see and relate to maths23:51
ali1234when you understand what it's purpose is, it's easier to conceptualize how it does it23:51
ali1234this is the problem with bottom up learning23:51
ali1234if you don't understand how a thing is used, it's much harder to care about how it works23:52
ali1234and that makes it harder to learn23:52
ali1234so you're probably thinking "why doesn't this apply to the arduino then?"23:52
hamitronI don't do arduino tbh :)23:53
ali1234yesterday i was advocating bare AVR over arduino23:53
ali1234and the reason for that is that the arduino is kind of limited in what it will let you do23:53
hamitronI remember that23:54
ali1234where as a full 3d engine vs raw opengl will let you do a lot more stuff very quickly23:54
ali1234when i was at university one of the labs was to make a solar system simulator in opengl23:54
hamitronso is my red book that uses 2.1 useless?23:54
ali1234i would recommend doing that in opengl, and then doing it in say ogre3d23:55
ali1234or possibly the other way around23:55
ali1234either way, doing it in a 3d engine with a proper scene graph is about a billion times easier than doing it in opengl23:55
hamitronI think I've wasted a lot of time then23:57
hamitronunless it will help me with glide?23:58
ali1234glide? the 3dfx driver?23:59
ali1234you shouldn't be using that23:59
hamitronI know23:59

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