CensoredBiscuitAye. Pendulum02:59
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hajourhi all19:50
PendulumTheMuso: are you around?20:48
TheMusoPendulum: Yep I am now.20:48
Pendulumokay meeting time!21:00
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Mar 16 21:00:16 2011 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.21:00
meetingologyUseful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.21:00
Pendulumwho's here for the meeting?21:00
* Pendulum pokes at charlie-tca AlanBell hajour TheMuso maco21:01
Pendulumthis could be a very short meeting21:03
Pendulum(since we have very few people)21:03
* TheMuso is.21:03
* TheMuso notes he is somewhat late with his blog entry for this week... I'll do my best to get it finished ASAP.21:04
PendulumCensoredBiscuit: you around for the meeting? (no worries if you aren't)21:04
Pendulumokay, agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda21:04
Pendulum#topic Natty Testing21:05
meetingologyTOPIC: Natty Testing21:05
Pendulumcharlie-tca: what's the status on the testing you're doing? what can we help with?21:05
charlie-tcaWe don't have usable images again. Hopefully, tomorrow, we get an image that works again.21:06
charlie-tcaHave not had a good image in a week now21:06
TheMusoYeah there is a lot of upheaval atm.21:06
charlie-tcaCan't tell if the install works or fails, since I haven't been able to install since alpha3 released21:07
charlie-tcaIt would be great to have two or three or more run installs, when we get it working again21:08
charlie-tcaWe need someone to test dasher and screen magnifier, too, when we can get things working21:08
* Cheri703 can do that if the process for testing is well explained21:08
Pendulumcharlie-tca: that was my next question :)21:09
PendulumTheMuso: what's the status of the accessibility features making it in?21:09
TheMusoPendulum: Well things are still broken. They will likely be fixed by natty final, but I dare say they will lack polish. For this reason, myself and a couple of Desktop tea members are considering setting the default desktop session to GNOME for one or more accessibility profiles.21:10
TheMusoBut unity will be there for people to try should they choose to do so.21:10
Pendulum*nods* I saw some discussion of that, just wasn't sure how 'official' it was21:10
charlie-tcathat would be great, since it is close to impossible to use unity without full keyboard and mouse21:11
AlanBelljust got in21:11
charlie-tcaI find unity very hard to use, myself. It is not intuitive, there are no menus, and you have to search all over to find anything21:12
TheMusocharlie-tca: You are aware that all icons on the launcher have a quicklist/context menu?21:12
charlie-tcawhere the hell is all this information?21:13
charlie-tcaWe can't even have the shortcuts list on the wiki any more. It is only found on askubuntu.com, if you know where to look for it.21:13
Cheri703I find that a LOT of information is fragmented, it takes a lot of new searches to find things21:14
Pendulumcharlie-tca: why no shortcuts list on the wiki?21:14
charlie-tcaapparently, if you complain long enough, someone finally tells you21:14
charlie-tcajcastro moved the shortcuts to askubuntu.com21:15
macomoved, not copied? how silly21:15
AlanBellhe did21:15
macodid you try asking him to have it in both spots?21:15
charlie-tcaand, you can't easily add to them now, since the language used is not conventional markup for the wiki21:15
AlanBellhe got massively frustrated with the slowness of the wiki21:15
Pendulummaco: they're trying to consolidate a lot of things to askubuntu rather than the wiki :-/21:15
AlanBellthe can be added back to the wiki, but they wanted one place to maintain them21:16
charlie-tcaThe problem is finding the stuff over there21:16
charlie-tcaand then editing it to add anything21:16
AlanBellthere is a pointer on the page over to the askubuntu place21:16
macothat's a tech support site, not a brain-dump site!21:16
AlanBellI agree21:16
AlanBellI *have* been trying hard to address the issue of the wiki21:16
* TheMuso agrees with all thats been said.21:16
Pendulummaco: there was a UDS session about it in Orlando, unfortunately it was the last slot on the last day so I think a lot of people were too tired21:16
charlie-tcaI, for one, can not add a shortcut now. I can't really remember the right syntax21:16
charlie-tcaPendulum: and it was approved as a supplement to launchpad answers, not as a wiki replacement21:17
PendulumI think if we can, we should stick it back on the wiki under /Accessibility and if we have to assign a person to update based on when things are added on askubuntu, that's what we do21:17
Pendulumit's a PITA to do it that way, but I agree with all the issues about askubuntu21:18
Pendulum(I personally don't touch askubuntu if I don't have to)21:19
charlie-tcaYes, we can do that. It really should be under the help wiki, though21:19
AlanBellpersonally I would be inclined to leave it there until release and then put it on the wiki21:19
PendulumAlanBell: that could work too21:19
charlie-tcaum, I don't see many changes happening to it over there, actually.21:19
AlanBellit is over there so jcastro can maintain it better21:19
AlanBellI think he will21:19
Pendulumhave we ever figured out if askubuntu is screen-reader friendly?21:19
AlanBellit is the tool he likes to use21:20
charlie-tcapeople will add to it if it is on the wiki21:20
charlie-tcaas I recall, it is not21:20
AlanBellthere have been discussions about stackexchange and screen readers, there are blind people who use it21:20
PendulumI've seen things saying both ways. but no idea how long ago anyone last checked21:20
PendulumTheMuso: charlie-tca AlanBell, are any of you willing to check to see if askubuntu.com can be read using a screen reader?21:23
TheMusoYeah I can.21:23
AlanBellI can test with orca, but I don't know about specialised web page readers21:24
AlanBellI can look at the RSS feed21:24
charlie-tcais a good page to try21:25
Pendulumcan I just assign the 3 of you to look into it and get back to to us by the next meeting?21:25
* charlie-tca nods21:25
paul_hI'm looking at askubuntu with orca too21:26
TheMusoSeems fine with Orca and firefox in natty.21:26
paul_hlooks okay thus far21:26
Pendulumokay, so maybe not a concern :D21:27
Pendulum(and now not an action item either!)21:27
Pendulumokay, since we kinda started talking about development as well, TheMuso is there anything you want to add about what's going on with development?21:28
TheMusoNothing else to add, I covered what I wanted to say earlier re testing. However in that time I have reda some email, adn more accessibility stuff is likely to land this week, so with a bit of luck, we will have a somewhat accessible unity, so the decision to keep the default session to classic GNOME will be held off till next week.21:29
Pendulumcharlie-tca: anything else regarding testing?21:29
charlie-tcano, just hope we can get some testing in soon21:30
Pendulumgreat, moving on21:30
paul_hsorry, been away for a while, may I ask if the installer is likely to be accessible21:30
charlie-tcayes, it is. 21:30
paul_hgreat, thanks21:31
TheMusoTHere has been a bit of work towards addressing that, and yes, things are much better now, but still not perfect, but thats due to webkit support still not being 100% complete.21:31
Pendulum#topic Blog Volunteers21:31
meetingologyTOPIC: Blog Volunteers21:31
* Pendulum waits for the groans21:31
Pendulumwe were not so good at getting posts out this month21:31
* Cheri703 apologizes for slacking off the interviews...wasn't sure where to start.21:32
Cheri703I can step up and do that21:32
Pendulumthis is partially my fault for not poking people21:32
* AlanBell is getting close to posting the next persona21:32
PendulumI think we got maybe 1/2 of them up21:32
* charlie-tca is trying to write another post on testing21:32
PendulumI'm not overly worried, just think we should try to continue to do better!21:32
Pendulumso we really have 5 weeks we need to schedule in this time21:33
TheMusoAgreed. As I said earlier, mine is not finished, but hopefully will be by the end of the week.21:33
Pendulumfor those of you who are unaware, we now have a blog at http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/21:34
Pendulumand we're trying to get at least one post up on it a week21:34
Pendulumthey can be about anything accessibility related21:34
Pendulumwell, accessibility and Ubuntu/computing related21:34
Cheri703does that go through planet ubuntu? I seem to recall seeing at least some of those21:34
PendulumI'd like to volunteer next week to write something about accessibility at UDS21:35
Pendulumdoes anyone have a problem with that?21:35
TheMusoounds good.21:35
Pendulum#action Pendulum to write post on UDS accessibility for week of March 21st21:36
meetingologyACTION: Pendulum to write post on UDS accessibility for week of March 21st21:36
Pendulumso who is interested in writing for the week after that? you don't need an actual topic in mind right now21:36
AlanBellwell put me down for the persona asap21:38
charlie-tcaWe will be testing beta1 the week of march 2721:38
valorieI don't have an account on the access blog, but I'd like to write about KDE and accessability at some point21:38
valoriethe kubuntu angle21:38
AlanBellwe can set up additional accounts21:38
charlie-tcaheh, I just send mine to Pendulum 21:38
Pendulumeither way works21:38
valorieok, I can do it that way too21:38
valorieI'm on the KDE accessability list and channel21:39
PendulumAlanBell: do you want to do the persona the week after next?21:39
* TheMuso is too.21:39
valoriethere is work being done, and they are interfacing with Canonical I believe21:39
AlanBellyeah, sure21:40
* Pendulum really should join that channel21:40
Pendulum#action AlanBell to blog about the next persona week of March 28th21:40
meetingologyACTION: AlanBell to blog about the next persona week of March 28th21:40
valoriewhat is the best timing?21:40
valorienow, or later21:40
Pendulumcharlie-tca: what's good timing for your next testing blog post?21:40
charlie-tcaI can take the week of April 421:41
charlie-tcai guess21:41
Pendulumvalorie: do you want to do the week after that?21:41
valorieso second week of April?21:41
Pendulum#action charlie-tca to blog about testing for week of April 4th21:41
meetingologyACTION: charlie-tca to blog about testing for week of April 4th21:41
Pendulumvalorie: yeah, the one starting the 11th21:41
valoriesounds good21:42
Pendulum#action valorie to blog about KDE accessibility for week of April 11th21:42
meetingologyACTION: valorie to blog about KDE accessibility for week of April 11th21:42
valorieI'll try to get it done before, and let you release it21:42
PendulumCheri703: do you think you'd manage to get an interview done for the week of April 20th?21:42
Pendulum#action Cheri703 to do first interview for week of April 20th21:44
meetingologyACTION: Cheri703 to do first interview for week of April 20th21:44
Pendulumand that's all the posts we need to schedule for now!21:44
Pendulumif anyone else wants to post anything between now and then feel free to either send it to AlanBell or myself or poke us and we can give you access to the blog21:44
Pendulumall I want to try to avoid is 2 posts in the same day21:44
Pendulumpast that, I have no problem with lots of posts :)21:45
Pendulumso now that's done21:45
Pendulum#topic Next Persona21:46
meetingologyTOPIC: Next Persona21:46
PendulumAlanBell: this is all you :P21:46
valorieoooo, I could submit the post to dotKDE too21:46
valoriegiving us all kinds of coverage21:46
AlanBellso the next persona is Daniela21:46
AlanBellI am working on the text at the bottom of the page21:46
AlanBellthere are a bunch of notes above21:47
AlanBellshe is totally blind21:47
AlanBellone thing worth mentioning is the bit at the bottom:21:47
AlanBellIf you are going to UDS in Budapest then arrange a visit with a bunch of folk to the Invisible Exhibition http://www.lathatatlan.hu/en/ you will be given a white cane and led into an area of total darkness where your guide (who is blind) will take you on a tour of the exhibition. On Thursday they do a dinner in the dark followed by an invisible party! If you are interested in this please add a comment to this blog post.21:47
AlanBellI think it would be great to drum up some interest for an evening out at that21:48
TheMusoI am so in for that!21:48
AlanBellhowever they are not able to accomodate wheelchairs21:48
charlie-tcaI want to go21:48
AlanBellI was unable to pursuade them to budge on that21:48
PendulumI'm unsurprised that they can't accommodate wheelchairs, although a bit sad. 21:49
AlanBellTheMuso: it would be great to get the blind chap from linaro along to that too21:49
TheMusoAlanBell: Aye.21:49
Pendulum(even if the space was physically accessible, I can think of a lot of reasons why it's not practical)21:49
AlanBellyeah, I asked if it was possible to skip the exhibition bit and just get a chair into the dinner area, but no21:50
TheMusoThats somewhat disheartening.21:50
AlanBellhowever, disapointing as that is, I think it would be good to get as many people along to it as possible21:51
Pendulumtbh, I expect that if I get sponsored to Budapest that it will be hard, and maybe impossible for me to get places outside the hotel. I'm resigned to it. I'll cope :)21:51
Pendulumanyway, AlanBell is tehre stuff people can help with?21:52
TheMusoAlanBell: I agree.21:52
AlanBellpeople can dive in and edit text on the pad, maybe I will shout a few times in here for people to help review bits and work together on bits21:53
Pendulumsounds good!21:54
Pendulumanything else with personas?21:54
AlanBellnot right now21:54
Pendulumwe're hitting close to an hour now. Do people want to go over the blueprint now or should we wait until either next month? (or if we want to do something sooner, we could hold a meeting just to go over the blueprint in 2 weeks or something)21:56
Pendulumthe only reason I'm suggesting a special meeting sooner than next month is next month's meeting is the week before Natty releases21:56
TheMusoA meeting just for the blueprint is a better idea, given where things are at.21:56
hajoursorry just have read back21:56
Pendulum(and I'm getting a little tired which is why I'd rather not go more than an hour if possible)21:56
charlie-tcaI agree with the separate blueprint meeting21:57
AlanBellseparate meeting is fine, keeps up the momentum21:57
valoriethank you for inviting me to this meeting21:58
valorieI'll try to attend regularly from now on21:58
TheMusovalorie: You're welcome at any time.21:58
Pendulumvalorie: you're welcome to hang out in the channel. We don't discrimminate21:58
valorieshorter and more frequent sounds good21:58
Pendulumthere are even *gasp* non-disabled here all the time ;-)21:58
hajourbtw i can let know now how it is to use when you are blind i just open the curtains  and dont put sunglasses on.and i will see nothing at all21:58
Pendulumokay 21:59
Pendulumso we'll move the blue print to a separate meeting21:59
Pendulum#topic Any Other Business22:00
meetingologyTOPIC: Any Other Business22:00
Pendulumanyone have anything else they'd like to bring up?22:00
hajourlost my note when i hasd to finish the blog for the accessibility site22:00
charlie-tcaoh, no22:00
Pendulumhajour: whenever you get it done is fine22:00
Pendulumanything else?22:02
hajouris there still help needed for some things tested for blind ?22:02
Pendulumokay, it sounds like the meeting stuff is done22:03
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Mar 16 22:03:09 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)22:03
meetingologyMinutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2011/ubuntu-accessibility.2011-03-16-21.00.moin.txt22:03
Pendulumthank you everyone!22:03
AlanBellthanks Pendulum 22:03
Pendulumhajour: talk to charlie-tca about testing22:03
hajouri think UndiFineD  will get time to help.he just heard he will have to leave his job22:03
charlie-tcahajour: yes, we need help22:03
hajourhe heard today he will be fired from next fryday22:04
charlie-tcaWe need to try the screen-reader installations, as much as we can, to get it working good22:04
charlie-tcaSorry to hear that. 22:04
Pendulumoh, does 2 weeks from now at the same time work for people?22:04
AlanBellPendulum: does for me22:04
Pendulumit will be after the change to daylight savings for the UK folks22:04
hajourok Pendulum 22:04
* charlie-tca nods at Pendulum 22:05
Pendulum(I don't know about for TheMuso or hajour )22:05
AlanBellso might be an hour later for people in a country where the clocks change22:05
AlanBellor an hour earlier in the southern hemisphere perhaps?22:05
hajouri need some help asking sponsering only i wonder if i still am needed .or speechcontrol then still lives22:05
TheMusoPendulum: If I know what it is in UTC< I can workit out from there.22:06
hajourbad things never come alone22:06
PendulumTheMuso: the 21:00 UTC time22:06
AlanBellUndiFineD: sorry to hear about the job22:06
PendulumUndiFineD: :( about your job22:07
hajourUndiFineD,  was very tired from all of this and is now sleeping22:07
TheMusoPendulum: Should be doable.22:07
AlanBellhajour: yes, you can still do a sponsorship application22:07
charlie-tcaPendulum: what is the actual date, March 30?22:07
hajourbut whaat can i offer them to UDS i mean22:08
charlie-tcaokay, kick me for it, then22:08
charlie-tcahajour: accessibility discussions22:08
AlanBelljust have to figure out what in particular you want to get involved in22:08
hajouri was /am where i want to be  involved in22:09
AlanBellhajour: have a look at the schedule of the last one http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/22:09
AlanBellclick monday through to friday and look at the session titles22:09
hajourUndiFineD,  had put me already on the list22:09
AlanBellmake a list of the ones you would have liked to attend22:10
AlanBellthat will guide what goes on the application form22:10
hajourthank you AlanBell 22:11
AlanBellwhen you have done that list (and decided that you really want to spend the time and effort to go) then lets put together your form22:11
hajouranyone know how a team go upstream to look where i have mist things.maybe i can still save speechcontrol22:13
* hajour is kinda desperate22:15
JanChajour: what's wrong?22:16
hajourspeechcontrol is pushed upstream without a warning up front.to short for it happened we where warned22:17
hajouri never had before a team not before speechcontrol22:18
Pendulumhajour: I'm not sure how moving upstream changes your development at all?22:18
hajouralso my first contact with irc is been here22:18
hajourfor the channels are made and official it cost 6 weeks22:19
JanCwhat do you mean by "pushed upstream" ?22:19
AlanBellit is a long and confusing story JanC22:19
hajoura new wiki whas /is needed22:19
AlanBellI don't think pushed upstream is the best terminology, but I don't have time right now to go through it22:20
hajourbut mail from launchpad had not reached all devs22:20
AlanBellhajour: I think a lot of the original goals of that project would make a great session to discuss at UDS22:20
Pendulumactually, there are upstream projects that use the Ubuntu wiki. maco's project Gally is an example22:20
hajourchannels where go broken from ubuntu-speechcontrol before we had all devs in by the new channels22:20
AlanBelland fold into the actual Ubuntu project management methodology22:20
hajouri wanted not go upstream but stay here22:21
PendulumI wouldn't necessarily recommend it long-term if you want other distros to use it, but it's not unheard of22:21
hajouri not able to do this allone22:22
AlanBellyou don't have to22:22
hajouri need help to get a clear site again from all about speechcontrol22:22
AlanBellanyhow it is getting late here22:23
JanCI think it's a good thing if speechconrol works for all distros?22:23
AlanBellspeechcontrol is not yet a "thing"22:23
JanCit's a project bundling several "things"22:24
hajourever heard about a adhd er who whas good in planning?specially when things are suddenly dropt on them?22:24
hajourits already done upstream but not good22:24
hajourit has to made good22:24
hajourok AlanBell  good night22:25
JanChajour: what do you mean by "mail from launchpad had not reached all devs" ?22:25
hajourfor to make clear this is a emergency call 22:26
hajoursome devs we have picked up again in ubuntu-beginners-team .they asked where the channels where22:26
JanCthe channel disappeared?22:27
hajourwe heard they had not get the mail where was standing in that we moved to other channels22:27
JanCwhy not set a forward on the old channels?22:27
hajourbecause we where go upstream we had to move to channels whitout ubuntu in the name22:27
JanCFreenode has all those fancy features to do such things...22:27
hajourwe have done22:27
hajourbut some where on vacation22:28
hajourafter a few weeks the channels where broken the old 1 s22:28
hajourand a few where just moving to other house because of change jobs22:29
charlie-tcaJanC: can't really forward the #ubuntu?? channel to a non-ubuntu channel22:29
hajourwe just where making some progress with speechcontrol22:29
hajouri dont know charlie-tca  we have put it in i not remember or it worked22:30
hajourso much was happening last month22:30
JanCcharlie-tca: well, technically it's possible I suppose, but probably would require a Freenode staffer for permissions?  in any case, a simple topic + channel message could give the necessary information too?22:31
hajourbtw not only speechcontrol have this problems also wintermute22:31
charlie-tcaum, it requires Ubuntu channel permission, since the #ubuntu?? channels are controlled by ubuntui22:32
hajourpeople feel like ubt have leave them not only me22:32
JanCan "ubuntu irc staffer" then  ;)22:32
hajourthe 2 teams have no experience with things like this at all22:34
hajourso simple said help plz ?22:34
hajourits so much i not know anymore where to start22:37
JanCwell, what help do you need?22:37
hajourso you see i am not so good what everyone every time says22:38
hajourfirst i need help to make a good planning to get a good view again22:38
hajourwhat is still needed and what is done22:38
JanCmaybe make a list on paper (or in tomboy notes, or whatever) ?22:39
hajourand after that how can i reach the other devs22:39
JanCit seems like #ubuntu-speechcontrol already forwards to #speechcontrol ?22:40
hajourJanC,  have you experience with people who have adhd/add ? just wondering22:40
hajour4 channels we have all am i not knowing why so many someone made them for me22:41
JanChajour: not much experience, so if I say stupid things feel free to tell me  ;-)22:41
hajour#speechcontrol  #speechcontrol-devel  #speechcontrol-offtopic  speechcontrol-inferno22:42
hajour#speechcontrol-inferno i mean22:42
JanCso, if IRC redirects are okay, what else is needed?22:43
hajouri not know or the wiki is finished22:43
hajouri was not able to come on it22:44
JanCsomebody is hosting a new site/wiki ?22:44
hajourso i have not seen it22:44
hajouryes it was needed?they said22:44
hajouralso had to do with ubuntu name in it22:45
JanCwell, you can use the ubuntu wiki until that is ready22:45
JanCI understand they don't want to stay on the ubuntu wiki forever, but no need to drop it before the new one is ready...22:45
hajouri not know or that wan is still up to date 22:45
hajourone i mean22:46
hajourJanC,  if you want all will come in by me the info.and stay in it need to be short as possible explain.strict to the point22:48
hajourjacky is also by youth often helping so i don't know when he will respond JanC 22:50
JanChajour: I think the changes just need some time because most people also have other things to do (jobs, school, etc.)22:51
hajouryes i know22:51
hajourbut i need to know things before not suddenly.if it is drop suddenly my mind blocks22:51
hajourlike a door is closed advance and they key is missing22:52
JanChajour: many people don't like sudden changes, but it's much worse for you I suppose22:53
hajourand then i loose view over all things22:53
hajournot only on speechcontrol but also in my home22:53
hajourand then things will lay and come more things22:54
hajourtill it is very much22:54
JanChajour: thats' why I suggest keeping a list about this somewhere--and maybe everybody on the team should help with that22:54
hajourand then i not know anymore where to begin22:54
JanCa list of what needs done, who will do it, and what's already done22:55
hajourbut then i need the devs will come to tell what is done22:55
JanCexactly  ☺22:55
hajourand still needed22:55
hajourbut half of devs we not have seen for weeks22:56
hajourfrom the moment we where go upstream22:56
JanChajour: if they want to make software for people with disabilities, they should at least try to understand why you need it22:56
hajouryes but i not know how to explain to them to not send me long story's22:57
hajouri drawn in that22:57
hajourand will not be able to see what is in it22:57
JanCagain, most people have difficulty reading long stories, it's just worse for you22:58
hajourand then i feel so powerless22:58
JanCso by keeping things short and to the point, they help everybody  ☺22:59
hajourits still loading charlie-tca 23:01
charlie-tcait is slow to load.23:01
JanCcharlie-tca: I've been slamming Google Apps for years, they fail for everybody, not only for the blind  ;-)23:01
charlie-tcaIt is about the United States. but the article comes from Australia23:02
hajouri just need to get the start help .the push in the right direction by way of speaking23:02
charlie-tcaHopefully, National Federation for the Blind has enough push to do something23:02
hajourspecially by new things23:02
hajouri was to hospital today with one of my kids and i forgot to take my dark glasses with me.in my home curtains are mostly closed.or such a way its not bright light23:04
hajourso first it was still not yet full light23:04
hajouri not mean sun23:04
hajourbut then daylight came23:04
hajourand i was not able to see anything anymore almost23:05
hajourso my 11 year old daughter have guide me instead of me guiding her.23:05
hajourand i felt so stupid to forget something important like that23:06
JanCcharlie-tca: I tried to use gmail for some time, but it's so full of bugs (including standards-violating bugs) that Outlook suddenly starts to look good--so I'm not surprised it's bad at a11y too...23:06
TheMusoJanC: I have always been skeptical of web apps. At least Google apps can be accessed by dedicated clients on various platforms.23:11
JanCTheMuso: yeah, even if they have (or had?) some bugs/flaws in their protocol implementations23:13
=== zkriesse_ is now known as zkriesse
hajourpff i have make a screenshot to help and know i cant find it23:17
hajourcharlie-tca,  that link you have give me have make plug in shockwave made crash23:19
hajourby my webbrowser23:19
charlie-tcareally? It didn't crash mine23:19
hajouri had make for first time alone a screenshot but cant find him anymore :(23:19
hajourso i am searching now in all my files23:20
hajourcharlie-tca, ^23:21
charlie-tcaI try not to run any flash stuff,  myself23:21
hajouri have let make some changes btw for accessibility by facebook 23:22
hajourand they listened to .till my big surprise23:24
hajourso i will go write more mails to them for accessibility23:26
JanCI use NoScript, which also blocks Flash by default23:27
hajourwhat NoScript is for?23:27
JanCI doubt I could have 200+ tabs in Firefox otherwise  :P23:27
JanChajour: it's a firefox extension that disables JavaScript & plugins until you allow tham for specific sites (where you really need them)23:28
hajoura ok23:28
JanCmost sites work fine without JavaScript/Flash/etc.23:29
JanCand publicity banners use JavaScript and/or Flash most of teh time, so I don't see any of these either  ;)23:30
hajourso short say a commercial blocker23:31
JanCit's not really an ad blocker, but blocking ads is a nice side-effect23:37
hajourmm ok23:37
hajourso what is it block more then to?23:38
JanCit blocks JavaScript and plugins, which I do for security and because those often use lots of CPU & memory for no good reason23:39
hajourmm ok23:40
JanCand it often makes pages load faster too23:41
hajourJanC,  do you think 1 from ubuntu if they have a business.would give me like mm don't know the english word stage to learn more from it?23:41
hajouri not want money23:41
hajouronly a change to learn more23:42
hajourfrom to learn IT i mean23:42
JanCDutch "stage" is called "internship" in English23:43
JanCand it's difficult to say that, I don't know what you can or can't do23:44
PendulumCanonical doesn't do internships, they kinda consider the community as their volunteers and interns in a way23:44
PendulumI don't know about other companies23:44
hajouri need to learn in real live23:44
hajourto see how someone do it23:45
Pendulumthat makes sense23:45
JanCalso, I don't know if the Dutch government has good subsidies for companies that employ people with disabilities23:45
PendulumI also don't know what companies are in your area23:45
hajouri am on the list to come in the project from getting a adjust job23:46
hajourbut for i am on the list its 5 months later23:46
hajourthen i come on the list what takes 4 till 7 year till it is my turn23:46
hajourand that is so very long23:46
hajourthey have subsidies23:47
JanChajour: have you tried volunteering to assist with IT for a non-profit or such?  it's not the same, but might still be good to get some experience?23:48
hajournever done that i have done job interviews but i not come further then the first talk then i am not needed.but i not had my meds when i tryed it23:50
JanChajour: maybe Akke from ubuntu-nl can help you23:50
hajourso i failed with very lot job interviews23:50
hajourand at a point i simple had give up trying23:51
hajouris Akke also in ubuntu-nl-mwanzo?23:51
JanCshe's "laacque" when she is on IRC23:52
hajourand in which channel is she to find JanC ?23:53
JanCshe's not there very often I think23:53
hajouryou see i only see helpers here in my home .when i talk its about problem this problem that.23:56
hajouri want to come in the society23:57
hajourpeople around .work to do something.and maybe later very maybe.to urn finally my own money instead holding my hand up everytime23:58

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