ali1234when i was writing my solar system program at uni i was lucky enough to have an SGI machine with hardware open gl... but the labs were all software 3d with mesa00:00
hamitronshouldn't do a lot of things, but we do them ;)00:00
ali1234but the code was no different on each00:00
ali1234well, that's not really true00:00
ali1234different implementations of opengl have different bugs00:01
ali1234if you use a 3d engine you wont need to worry about any of that00:01
ali1234that's another reason to use one00:01
hamitronso you'd use ogra?00:02
hamitronor however it is spelt00:02
ali1234ogra is the ubuntu-arm developer :)00:02
ali1234ogre3d is what i use for a 3d engine00:02
ali1234i like it because it doesn'trailroad you into making a FPS game00:02
ali1234but other engines are available00:02
hamitronbut then aren't you restricted by the engine?00:03
ali1234well yes and no00:04
hamitronI mean, if you let your creative juices flow00:04
ali1234not really because what are you going to do?00:04
hamitronI intend to code a custom morph sorta thing00:04
ali1234all the 3d engine does for you is load the objects from files and manage the scene graph (aka where are the objects) and do culling and fancy effects00:04
hamitronI want to create the objects in the program00:05
ali1234you can do that in ogre, no problem00:05
ali1234^ the whole race track is generated procedurally00:05
hamitrondamn it00:05
hamitronI have youtube blocked00:05
hamitronI was asked to block sites that distract people00:06
ali1234so block it for everyone but you?00:06
ali1234bofh 10100:06
hamitronI do normally have my own tunnel00:07
hamitronbut been setting all my stuff up fresh00:07
hamitronNEW COMP \o/00:07
hamitronso with orge3d I can draw things from individual squares?00:08
hamitrondrag the vertices around00:08
hamitronand stuff00:08
ali1234nor can you do that in opengl00:08
ali1234you need to write a whole 3d editing program either way00:08
hamitronwhy can't opengl be used for that?00:09
ali1234opengl doesn't even have any mouse functions00:10
ali1234it's only for drawing00:10
hamitronoh, I used SDL with opengl00:10
hamitronwith a sample thing00:10
ali1234you can make objects with modifiable geometry in ogre00:10
ali1234but you still need to write a whole UI either way00:11
hamitronit was only using the fixed function pipeline though00:11
hamitronit didn't do anything useful, was just playing :)00:12
hamitronali1234, so I should use C++ too? :/00:17
stuart__hello again!00:18
ali1234you don't need to use the advanced stuff like templates00:18
hamitronI hate my C++ book00:18
ali1234stuart__: hi, did it work?00:18
hamitronstill not got through it00:18
stuart__Ok, here is the craic... new user -- works in gnome and xfce.00:18
ali1234you can use ogre with python too btw, although it's kind of tricky to set up, and very hard indeed to package for windows00:18
stuart__But not for me.00:19
hamitronno way am I learning python00:19
hamitroneither C or C++ ty00:19
ali1234so just use C++ like it was C00:19
hamitronmy book encourages a C coder to use modern C++ ways for things00:20
ali1234oh, not C++ for C programmers is it?00:20
hamitronfeels like I don't even know how to code when reading some of it00:20
ali1234i have that book, it sucks00:20
hamitronbut it starts with more advanced stuff to get stuff going00:20
hamitronthen teaches more of the stuff I know, nearer the back00:21
ali1234stuart__: so....... it's something in your gnome config then i guess00:21
* hamitron likes to reset his home directory every now and then00:21
hamitronI compare it to formating windows every few months00:22
stuart__So I see. But all my lovely settings ;(00:22
ali1234stuart__: there are some settings in keyboard -> layouts -> options00:23
ali1234i don't know what any of them do but some seem to change the right alt behaviour00:23
stuart__I have looked in all of those settings and to no avail...00:24
stuart__It is an odd one though.00:24
ali1234input methods?00:24
stuart__That is a possibility.00:24
hamitronlooks like another fan is causing me problems00:35
hamitronunless removing power to my graphics card did it00:36
shaunodon't you hate when companies use weird-ass usb cables so you can't charge your toys when you need to :(00:46
stuartWhoah....  é00:47
stuartIt has reset. Somehow!!!! ♯00:47
stuartWell thank you all for your time. Have a great night.00:50
ali1234i just got a tip on some amazing microcontroller hardware:00:52
ali1234£40 from farnell00:52
ali1234that blows away any arduino :)00:52
hamitronthat actually looks good00:59
hamitronwell small too00:59
ali1234yes, and it fits in standard protoboard01:00
shaunoand there's no IDE, it's all tied into their online platform.  luckily you get a (Single) license key with the device.01:05
shaunothis place changes ideologies quicker than I can spell it ;)01:05
ali1234no IDE?01:06
ali1234it's arm01:06
ali1234just use gcc :)01:06
hamitronthink I'll just get a fpga01:10
hamitronbut gonna complete existing projects first01:10
hamitrondo you guys aquire loads of junk to "do stuff sometime"?01:11
ali1234i try not to01:11
hamitronI try ;) just fail badly01:11
shaunodon't see jtag exposed on the pinout there.  so I guess you just gotta hope the 'mbed' interface is easily hackable01:11
ali1234it's programmed on serial01:12
ali1234but the first thing i would do is write a usb bootloader01:12
ali1234also, the jtag is exposed, it's multiplexed with other stuff01:14
=== tomtom is now known as module0x90
hamitronoff to bed01:18
hamitrontired and staring at toys ali1234 is linking me to01:18
hamitronoverly active brain before sleep is bad....01:19
=== tomtom is now known as module0x90
ali1234hmm wait... the mbed actually has an interface chip between the usb and the lpc chip01:53
ali1234so it's just as fail as the arduino01:53
shaunoseems there's two different usb's on it02:04
ali1234you can always wire up a second usb port to the real chip02:05
ali1234it's still annoying and poitnless though02:05
shaunothe mini-usb presents mass-storage via the 'mbed interface'; the one at the pinout is separate02:05
ali1234that sucks02:05
ali1234this is what i actually want: http://shop.ngxtechnologies.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=10002:05
shaunoseems most boards are doing the same thing.  sticking the serial programmer on a dedicated usb port because no-one has serial ports anymore02:07
ali1234but it's trivial to make a usb secondary bootloader02:07
ali1234with no extra hardware02:08
ali1234so you only need to use that serial programming interface once02:08
ali1234but on boards like the mbed and arduino you're stuck with it forever02:08
ali1234at least the mbed you can wire up a second plug02:08
ali1234but that kind of defeats the purpose of buying a board with usb on it02:09
shaunoI have arduino that simply don't have usb on them.  whine solved :)02:10
ali1234except that i'm not interested in interfacing a PC with anything other than USB02:11
ali1234cos like you said, no one has serial ports any more02:11
ali1234and with just a microcontroller all you can really do is blink some leds02:12
ali1234so the most interesting thing to do with them is make USB devices02:12
ali1234although this thing *does* have ethernet...02:12
ali1234which kinds of puts it in a different ballpark really02:12
ali1234but still i am quite surprised they did not include a USB bootloader in the mark ROM02:13
shaunosorta.  would love me a bit of wifi02:13
ali1234wifi is a gigantic pita02:13
ali1234needs way too much software stack02:13
ali1234bluetooth is more realistic with uCs02:14
shaunosure, but what point in having a thumb-sized board that needs to be hardwired02:14
ali1234hence, bluetooth :)02:14
ali1234and you can attach a bluetooth module on any serial port02:14
ali1234so it is very much possible02:14
shaunothen it needs a host on the other side again :/02:15
ali1234um... you need something else on wifi for it to talk to as well02:16
shaunoyeah, but not 5 meters away02:16
ali1234bluetooth is essentially adhoc wifi02:16
shaunomy router's here all the time.  my laptop, not so much02:16
ali1234and bluetooth is up to 100m now02:17
ali1234unlike wifi it degrades gracefully with range02:17
ali1234modding a router for bluetooth is also quite easy :)02:21
ali1234i guess one thing the mbed has going for it, you can wire it up for usb host, and still program it over usb02:33
AlanBellwill it run android I wonder07:38
=== tim_ is now known as mistertim
=== tim is now known as mistertim
DavieyAlanBell, around?08:20
DJonesMorning all08:23
AlanBellDaviey: indeed08:24
nigelbDaviey: got a min?08:34
hoovergood morning08:36
DavieyAlanBell, Groovy!08:37
Davieynigelb, i think so08:37
nigelbDaviey: hey, you have that bot to report planet uk posts, any chance you can get me the config for the supybot rss plugin for that?08:38
nigelbDaviey: my attempts failed spectacularly :\08:38
Davieynigelb, I could dig around, but you are best asking X3N - it's based on his code.08:39
daubersNext time someone says "Can you do a support call to Australia" remind me to say no08:46
DJonesdaubers: Timezone problems?08:47
daubersDJones: Doing switch config at 11pm hurts my head08:48
daubersespecially when it's a switch I don't know08:48
DJonesHeh, doing anything apart from lieing in bed  hurts my head at that time08:48
DJonesMorning czajkowski08:50
Davieydaubers, Yeah.. last cycle I had the same issue with the west coast USA.. I was on the phone to upstream at Friday night, till passed Midnight.. Brain frazzled.. not fun.08:50
selinuxiummorning all   o/08:53
selinuxiumHi Daviey, long time, no chat...You good?08:53
Davieyselinuxium, Yep!  Not too bad.  Next time i'm in London, we must go for a beer to catch up.  I trust life is good for you?08:54
selinuxiumDaviey, indeed it is. Things are pleasantly well my side of the fence... :)08:54
selinuxiumDaviey, always up for a beverage. :)08:55
TheOpenSourcererdid someone say beer?08:58
selinuxiumMorning TheOpenSourcerer08:58
hooverWake up call ;-)08:58
TheOpenSourcererMorning all.08:58
DavieyWho will be going to London for Natty release?08:58
TheOpenSourcererselinuxium: I'm in town tomorrow for a lunch with some old mates...08:59
nigelbDaviey: thanks (sorry, stepped away)08:59
TheOpenSourcererAround Moorgate in fact.08:59
selinuxiumTheOpenSourcerer, Cool... could pop out for one... :)09:00
selinuxiumTheOpenSourcerer, Still got this display board here too... :)09:00
TheOpenSourcererIt will probably run into late afternoon.09:00
TheOpenSourcererIndeed - that was my thinking selinuxium09:00
selinuxiumTheOpenSourcerer, you got my number?09:02
TheOpenSourcerernope selinuxium09:02
AlanBellDaviey: I will I think09:04
czajkowskiif anyone is looking to poke me on saturday rea venue or tables or trying to find me, give me a shout and I give give you my mobile09:04
czajkowskiDaviey: I will!09:04
DavieyGroovy!  I think i'll need some beer then.. :)09:05
bigcalmMorning peoples :)09:05
czajkowskibigcalm: howdy09:05
selinuxiummorning czajkowski AlanBell bigcalm09:18
kazadehmm, any eta on when the new podcast can be downloaded? I missed it last night :(09:20
czajkowskikazade: later today09:21
kazadethx czajkowski09:22
* kazade waits09:22
screen-xdaubers: just linuxjobs post, \o/ minions09:22
daubersscreen-x: I know! Desperate for them now09:27
daubershttp://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/linuxjobs/2011-March/000581.html if anyones interested09:31
kazadedaubers, can you move about 30 miles East? :)09:34
Tommehwhat the hell.. Half of my search engines in Firefox have disappeared 0_O09:36
TommehGoogle, Wikipedia09:36
Tommehthe weird thing is, I've found them all again except Google's09:37
dauberskazade: Heh, bit too close to the European disty then09:37
TommehIt's completely absent in the add-ons09:37
Neotiwell i just posted a comment on my facebook and challenged some friend to use ubuntu 10.10 for 1 week to see how they get on... and i put i would be happy to provide support etc... i wander who will accept ......09:46
JamesTaitsudo aptitude -y install random-greeting && random-greeting09:47
JamesTait(Don't try that command, I don't know if it will actually install anything!)09:48
DJones!info random-greeting09:53
lubotu3Package random-greeting does not exist in maverick09:53
DJonesJamesTait: That answers that09:53
JamesTaitDJones: You need the right PPA. ;)09:54
daubersAhhh, bacon helps the brain switch gear09:59
czajkowskihttp://twitpic.com/49zdu4 whooo10:07
DJonesWho plugged the cat into the mains10:09
* screen-x spent an hour tripping in the world of osmos last night10:09
screen-xseriously mellow10:10
screen-xMartijnVdS: ropelight cat is ropey?10:11
MartijnVdSscreen-x: No idea.. it hurts my eyes :)10:11
kaushalMartijnVdS: hi10:13
gordpopey, (or anyone else that might know) - do you happen to know what the exec for chrome is called? (not chromium) - chromium is chromium-browser just wondering if chrome takes the same route10:14
* mungojerry notes jcastro's use of \o/ emoticon on his unity article on omgubuntu. popey would approve 10:14
popeypass, not on an ubuntu box right now10:14
screen-xgord: google-chrome10:15
gordscreen-x, you are a star, saved me a few boring minutes of downloading, thanks :)10:16
* czajkowski throws toys at gord 10:16
gordsweet! toys!10:16
* czajkowski has taffy 10:16
BigRedSanyone know where phpversion() gets its version string from?10:16
gordi don't keep desktop toys at my desk, i bought some little magnets once for playing with whilst things built, really hard to get anything done when those are on your desk...10:17
screen-xgord: I make music with an old heatsink and a screwdriver10:17
jpdsBigRedS: PHP_VERSION_ID ?10:17
screen-xmorning kaushal10:18
hooverHello kaushal10:18
* gord sends out more contributor agreements for unity - seems like there are more new people every week10:18
BigRedSjpds: mmm, I was more wanting to append to it, presumably at compile time10:21
TommehIn case anyone cared, this fixed my search add-on woe: http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/751010#answer-14636010:22
selinuxiumThinking of migrating to Narwhal tonight....10:27
screen-xBigRedS: main/php_version.h looks like a good candidate10:28
selinuxiumHey BigRedS , How are you doing?10:28
czajkowskiselinuxium: it may not help your frustration10:28
selinuxiumczajkowski, at least it will be focussed... :)10:28
BigRedSscreen-x: oh yeah. I've jsut been getting annoyed at that not being set in the configure options! I always forget I have the source...10:28
selinuxiumAnd I will be able to shout...10:28
screen-xBigRedS: that may well be generated by the build system..10:29
mungojerryselinuxium: by migrating, do you mean your prod system?10:30
selinuxiummungojerry, God no!10:30
mungojerryselinuxium: i was gonna say...10:31
selinuxiummungojerry, my laptop... I can deal with pain on that...10:31
mungojerrythere is pain10:31
Bollingeris there a command line tool which I can use to report cpu load counter. Something like a mile-o-meter on a car. Not an instantaneous value (via top etc)?10:31
mungojerrybut lots of fun if you like reporting bugs10:31
* screen-x considers mungojerrys philosphical statement10:31
selinuxiummungojerry, are there still large show stoppers out there?10:31
screen-xBollinger: by not instantaneous do you mean graphs?10:32
mungojerryBollinger: cpu usage by %, or load average?10:32
mungojerryselinuxium: showstoppers, probably not, but annoyances without workarounds as  yet , yes :)10:33
screen-xBollinger: top/htop will show you cumulative cpu time for each process (time+)10:33
Bollingerscreen-x, I would like something that gives me a number, which I can take a look at once a day to get a delta. If the delta one day is huge I know something is very cpu intensive10:33
popeyyou can do that yes10:34
popeyyou could use a tool like rrd to put the cpu load into a db periodically then ask it for an average per day10:34
popeyi do that with my house electricity usage10:34
selinuxiummungojerry, Cheers  :)10:34
mungojerryBollinger: even vmstat 60 (substitute for n seconds) would give some useful info10:35
screen-xBollinger: sar could also be useful10:36
popeyooo, both also good suggestions10:36
mungojerryBollinger: have you heard of conky?10:36
selinuxiummungojerry, I like to have a slightly broken system... Ubuntu has been so stable I haven't needed to fix it... Losing my linux foo..10:36
screen-x!info sysstat10:36
lubotu3sysstat (source: sysstat): system performance tools for Linux. In component main, is optional. Version (maverick), package size 247 kB, installed size 1144 kB10:36
mungojerryconky lets you put this info onto the desktop background as a little chart and numerical info10:36
mungojerryincluding cpu temperature etc10:37
popey\o/ mu10:38
screen-xBollinger: have you stopped beating your wife yet?10:39
mungojerryBollinger: e.g. check out pics http://fak3r.com/geek/howto-conky-config-conkyrc-for-debian-part-2/10:39
Bollingermungojerry, I cant use a gui app, I am looking for a command line10:39
mungojerryah ok :)10:39
Bollingerscreen-x, just installing trying to get working sar10:39
bigcalmHas all work stopped on 9.04? I haven't been notified of an update for weeks on my parents' machine10:44
bigcalmWill attempt to upgrade that machine to 10.10 this weekend when we visit10:45
AlanBellin short, yes10:45
MartijnVdSpopey: ouch @ mailing list link10:45
bigcalmFair enough :)10:45
czajkowskibigcalm: it's not an LTS10:45
screen-xbigcalm: yah 9.04 is EOL10:45
bigcalmczajkowski: I know that :)10:45
bigcalmCheers. I guess it went EOL recently10:46
TheOpenSourcererpopey: That thread is a bag of #fail10:46
AlanBellyeah, not an LTS, but the dates for non-lts are on the LTS page too10:46
* screen-x wonders why czajkowski is gobsmacked10:46
* kazade really needs to implement "Retweet" in his Twitter client10:46
bigcalmMy bytemark host is still using 8.04 :S10:47
directhex9.04 went EOL in october10:47
mungojerrybigcalm: 8.04 is LTS though innit?10:47
bigcalmmungojerry: it is10:47
bigcalmJust didn't realise that I have had the host for so long10:47
czajkowskiscreen-x: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05037.html10:47
mungojerry10.04 has been my fave release ever10:48
bigcalmOr bytemark are slow to offer new LTS installs10:48
kaushalMartijnVdS: hi10:48
kaushal< MartijnVdS> ipband - daemon for subnet bandwidth monitoring with reporting via email10:48
bigcalmI still grumble at PHP 5.3 being made the default. Breaks a lot of PHP 5.2 sites. Ah well, progress 'n all that10:49
kaushalshall i pastebin the ipband.conf ?10:49
bigcalmAny 'specy 4 eyes' here got any tips on how to stop the bridge of the nose from getting sore?10:51
bigcalmI've used glasses for 4 years and still haven't figured this one out10:52
screen-xbigcalm: my wife has recently started poking small bits of plastic into her eyes in the morning.10:52
screen-xlooks painful, but may solve the problem10:52
bigcalmscreen-x: sadly I'm only slightly long sighted, so use specs for computer useage10:53
MartijnVdSkaushal: I don't know it. I only apt-cache search'd10:53
screen-xbigcalm: slightly sounds like a good thing :)10:53
kaushalMartijnVdS: ok10:54
bigcalmscreen-x: I guess, but it means that I can't use contacts as I need to take my glasses off when I leave the room10:54
kaushalMartijnVdS: i dont see anything on the webpage ?10:54
MartijnVdSkaushal: I don't know10:54
kaushalscreen-x: hi10:54
kaushalhoover: hi10:54
bigcalmMartijnVdS: ta for the 2nd playlist. It was very well received :)10:54
kaushalsince you greeted me10:54
kaushalMartijnVdS: can i seek help somewhere ?10:56
popeyTheOpenSourcerer: yup10:57
* czajkowski has an itchy nose 10:57
czajkowskiever good10:57
* popey puts the pepper away10:58
bigcalmI get that while eating out sometimes10:58
bigcalmStill haven't figured out the cause10:58
TheOpenSourcererbigcalm: In case you didn't know here is a useful PPA for 10.04 servers https://launchpad.net/~txwikinger/+archive/php5.2 :-)10:58
popeyi get it just after putting on aftershave10:58
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: most interesting10:59
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: ah, I already have it all pinned in 10.10 :)10:59
AlanBellthis is not openerp11:07
screen-xAlanBell: at least you didnt type the next line ;-)11:07
TheOpenSourcerer8x0sa0(((nqwojdow09-08lm ***11:07
* popey hax0r3s the gibson11:07
TheOpenSourcererI just made that one up :-)11:07
TheOpenSourcererYou can use it if you like11:07
popeythat is indeed a two handed mash on the keyboard11:07
popeyi can tell by the pixels11:08
screen-xcouscous = pixelated food11:08
brobostigongood morning everyone,11:08
popeyi like that11:09
AlanBell8 bit food11:09
* AlanBell ponders11:10
bigcalmAmusing indeed11:10
bigcalmJust applied a plaster to the bridge of my nose. Maybe it'll help :) (Yes, I look like a dork)11:11
mungojerrybigcalm: maybe lighter glasses would help?11:11
mungojerryones that don't weigh anything :p11:11
screen-xframes filled with helium \o/11:12
Pendulumbigcalm: are you sure they're fit correctly?11:12
bigcalmPendulum: they possibly do not :)11:12
mungojerryremembers the conkywizard application for producing conky setups that look like branded ubuntu :)11:12
mungojerryeven has the canonical dots :)11:13
bigcalmGoing by the release date of StarTrek, I got my last pair of specs in May 2009. I guess it's soon to be time for a new test/glasses11:17
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: bug 73407711:19
lubotu3Launchpad bug 734077 in OpenERP Addons "Analytic Account Code sequence not working" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73407711:19
mungojerryi wonder if there is any truth in the idea that lots of computer work means you need glasses sooner11:20
mungojerrypopey: i'm concerned by that thread that you tweeted about11:21
bigcalmmungojerry: I had to get glasses a wee while after getting this office job11:21
bigcalmmungojerry: they stopped the headaches11:21
* mungojerry has been using computers for 30 years11:21
bigcalm10 hours a day without many breaks?11:21
mungojerrybut always insisted on good refresh rates on CRT montiors11:21
bigcalmPeople are different :)11:22
mungojerrybigcalm: working fulltime since 15 yrs ago11:22
mungojerryyeah, the rest of my family have good eyesight11:22
mungojerryalthough i get this googly eye problem a lot now11:24
mungojerrywhich is hard to explain11:24
mungojerrybut my eyes suddenly want to defocus and won't focus on things. it usually happens when i don't get enough sleep11:25
mungojerrybut it could be physcological11:25
bigcalmI was going to say that it sounds like sleep deprivation11:25
bigcalmStress can make my eyes twitch :)11:26
DJonesmungojerry: I've been using computers daily since the Vic 20 came out, I only wear glasses for driving/distance11:26
MartijnVdSkaushal: google, probabl11:26
mungojerryi think screen work could exacerbate an exisiting problem11:26
mungojerry"After several weeks of trying, last week I finally succeeded in installing Natty to test Unity" - that is the most worrying line i've read from unity interface designer11:27
MartijnVdSlet's revert to gnome-shell ;)11:28
kazadethere are so many things wrong with that email..11:29
kazadeI mean, even if MPT couldn't get it to work, I'm astounded that a.) he hasn't seen the menu hiding thing had been implemented and b.) he wasn't even aware it was specified11:30
directhexthe menu hiding was broken last time i saw it11:30
mungojerryhere's my scale of DE likeability:  100% gnome..................................unity....kde.....lxde......fluxbox........gnome shell........xfce11:30
directhexi.e. alt-f doesn't open the file menu on one version of unity. it works on another11:30
AlanBelland that it was specified in a google doc of unknown authorship11:30
* mungojerry has recently seen a worse email at work11:30
mungojerryalternative options for solutions proposed in the IT strategy were not conisdered due to too little time11:31
BigRedSmungojerry: I'd always seen XFCE as almost a clone of Gnome? Is it that different now?11:32
kazadeAlanBell, I think Mark made it11:32
BigRedSadmittedly, last time I looked I wasn't much of a gnome user11:32
kazadethe screenshots show his home directory11:32
mungojerryBigRedS: i view it as a clone that's been hit with the ugly sitck11:32
BigRedS Ahhh. That's some ugly stick to end up so far the other side of KDE :)11:33
mungojerryBigRedS: KDE4.0 would be near the bottom, but KDE4.6 is improving, despite it's similarity to win711:34
directhexxfce has turned into a gnome clone fairly recently11:34
directhexit used to be a CDE clone11:34
mungojerryor..win7 similarity to KDE11:34
* mungojerry used to like openwindows on solaris :)11:34
BigRedSI tried a KDE the other month, and couldn't persuade it to behave anywhere near how I wanted it to11:34
screen-xWhere would you look for a Contract Sysadmin? I'm potentially changing jobs and my boss hasked me to look into options for interim coverage.11:35
BigRedSIt was whatever's in Ubuntu 10.10, so I presume a relatively recent KDE4?11:35
directhexscreen-x, how much cash? :p11:35
mungojerryscreen-x: kazade is looking for work :P11:35
screen-xdirecthex: ~£200/day 2 days/week.11:35
kazadeI am indeed, but full-time, perm dev work :)11:35
mungojerrydirecthex: admittedly i haven't tried it since 4.411:37
screen-xmy post is within the NHS, so getting a full time replacement will takes ages, as after a person leaves, the department have to justify their necessity before they are replaced.11:37
screen-xdirecthex: on a serious note, is that a reasonable value?11:39
directhexscreen-x, no idea, i've not done contract work11:40
screen-xI haven't either11:40
dwatkinsscreen-x: local or remote?11:42
mungojerryi wouldn't sniff at that if i was looking for work11:42
dwatkinsContracting used to be a lot more popular, then the government made it less lucrative with the IP35 taxation laws11:43
screen-xdwatkins: most would be remote11:43
mungojerryi could take 2 days a week holiday :P11:43
dwatkinsthanks AlanBell - I was thinking of an SGI systemboard, clearly11:44
screen-xdwatkins: well, up to the contractor, but being in wales/bridgend, I think most people would choose the remote option.11:44
mungojerrymind you , i've always been a permie and sometimes worked alongside permie contractors who were earning 5x the amount or more, for the similar job11:44
mungojerryone guy came with no knowledge and i basically trained him on unix while we was on double my wage11:45
dwatkinsyeah, mungojerry - although contracting has less benefits such as holidays, so supposedly that compensates11:45
AlanBellscreen-x: it doesn't sound a lot to me, however someone might want it just to get round IR3511:45
AlanBellhaving more than one customer is a good thing11:45
screen-xAlanBell: yeah, it wont be a long contract either, hopefully 3months max.11:45
AlanBellif you are a contractor with one customer and 12 invoices/year you look a lot like a permanent employee to the tax man11:46
AlanBell2 days/week for someone else for a bit could save a lot of tax!11:46
screen-xCan anyone recommend any agencies/contract support firms?11:46
AlanBelltry to cut out the blood sucking agencies if possible11:47
dwatkinsI've heard good things about parasol, but not used them myself.11:47
mungojerryarrggh copying a long url into firefox crashed compiz :( when you have 50 windows open, that sucks11:49
Laneyyou still keep the windows, no?11:55
popeyhello laney11:55
Laneyit's a reet nasty day and i'm supposed to be going down to holme pierrepont to do some canoeing11:56
mungojerryLaney: yes, but there's a weird behaviour that you can't get focus of the window because of hidden underlapping windows...it's hard to explain11:57
Laneyyou should be able to restart it though11:58
mungojerryhopefully it's fixed in cimpoz 0.9 apparently it was reritten11:59
AlanBellLaney: great fun, I have been down holme pierrepont11:59
Laneywhat in?12:00
LaneyI have been munched down there many times12:00
AlanBellthere was *lots* of water one time we went12:00
Laneyyeah, sometimes it can wash out12:02
Laneyhope you didn't get the dreaded trent belly12:02
AlanBelltrouble is if you go over and can't roll out you end up very quickly with a long walk back to the top12:02
kazadedoes anyone know any good tech (software) companies in London I could apply to?12:03
kazade(trying to avoid agencies :( )12:03
AlanBellI can roll out with or without a paddle on flat water, but in white water I am a bit hopeless12:03
Laneyyeah you need good safety to get you out fast12:03
MartijnVdSkazade: last.fm? :)12:03
Laneymy roll is... improving...12:03
Laneyas in, in white water it works some of the time12:04
kazadeMartijnVdS, perfect12:04
Laneyprobably take a big boat today to have an easier time12:05
AlanBellknowing the size of the lumps of concrete under the water at holme pierepont I didn't really fancy hanging about upside down under the boat for very long12:05
Laneyyeah and it can be pretty shallow in places12:07
AlanBellit was the lack of an option of swimming to the side dragging the boat that got me, you can do that in a real river, but on the course you have to go the whole way down before you can get out12:10
* daubers ponders the available lunch options12:17
shaunoI never look.  this way I can remain optimistic until the very last minute12:17
screen-xshauno: reminds me of the fridge in minority report12:21
popeyoooo food, good idea12:22
bigcalmWeigh-in then food12:22
shaunoyaknow, I've never seen that12:22
* AlanBell heads out to the Cabinet Office12:23
screen-xshauno: its not good food :(12:23
=== ubuntuuk-planet5 is now known as ubuntuuk-planet
* mungojerry is looking for holiday cottages12:31
czajkowskiAlanBell: have fun12:32
mungojerryyay i can now disable httpseverywhere due to the worst offenders now offering full https12:40
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_
bigcalmDo twitter clients make API calls over a secure connection?12:45
mungojerrylol funniest twitter comment i've ready in a while https://twitter.com/conscioususer/status/4783394953534259312:56
shaunobigcalm: I believe the https-only flag is web only12:56
mgdmit applies to the iPhone app too, evidently13:00
mgdmI don't know about others13:00
|Dreams|just tried hooking up my ubuntu 10.10 to my new led phillips 7000 and nothing just says there is no signal connect it to my monitor and bingo works fine, it was previously connected to a 37" lcd why wont it work with y led any ideas?13:03
Myrtti1st rule of home appliance/electronics purchases: "Do Not Buy Philips"13:03
|Dreams|on a serious note any ideas?13:04
MyrttiI am dead serious, Philips is on the list of bad-behaving manufacturers because their customer service and warranty repairs are pants.13:05
Myrttiand they don't act or agree on what the consumer disclaimer council here in Finland says or decides13:07
Myrtti"Consumer disputes board"13:07
directhex|Dreams|, connected with what wire?13:10
mungojerry|Dreams|: what input13:10
mungojerrywhat directhex said :P13:10
directhex|Dreams|, does the monitors control panel on ubuntu see it13:10
|Dreams|i cant see anything on the screen just says no signal etc13:11
directhex|Dreams|, ah, i see. desktop machine, only monitor13:11
* AlanBell likes the new saddle on the bike13:11
|Dreams|yeah, i was using the pc as a HTPC13:12
|Dreams|with xbmc13:12
|Dreams|on my old 37"lcd but swapped over to new led i bought and now no signal13:12
|Dreams|but i know pc works fine as hooked it up to my 21" monitor in bedroom n works fine13:12
|Dreams|maybe i should hook it up to the monitor change resolution to something daft like 800 x 600 etc then try on tv again?13:14
directhex|Dreams|, what resolution will it be trying? do you have fancy modelines in xorg.conf?13:16
|Dreams|1280 x ermmmm13:16
|Dreams|1280 by something13:17
daubers|Dreams|: Have you restarted the computer with the HDMI hooked up? My revo doesn't like adding the HDMI when it's already on, doesn't detect it13:17
daubersand on the correct channel with the TV on13:17
|Dreams|lol yes13:17
|Dreams|on my tv i have to add a device so i added the device as a computer on hdmi 113:18
|Dreams|click on the new computer device it loads up hdmi 113:18
|Dreams|and i get no signal13:18
directhex|Dreams|, don't you have two outputs on your graphics card? it'd be enormously helpful to see the monitor panel with the hdmi plugged in13:18
directhexor ssh in and use xrandr?13:18
|Dreams|its onboard graphics but it has hdmi and vga13:19
|Dreams|nvidia 7100 card i think i am using hte restricted drivers13:20
directhexxorg.0.log would probably also be interesting13:20
|Dreams|i will try again now13:21
|Dreams|although my new led has a ethernet port, i was thinking would it be eaiser to just set up a media server and stream to it save sorting this problem, but is there a media server that supports 1080p straming or does it have to transcode it first?13:22
=== madlabuk is now known as Tallscreen
directhex|Dreams|, the server doesn't care about the res.13:24
directhex|Dreams|, bigger issues are bandwidth and getting a upnp server to speak the exact broken version of the protocol your tv speaks13:24
|Dreams|i see13:24
directhexi can stream MKV blu-ray rips to my samsung, but it's not entirely smooth due to networking13:25
|Dreams|it is a gigabit network, well the tv and pc that will be streaming is gigabit and the router is gigabit so should be ok13:25
directhexthe tv is gigabit?13:25
|Dreams|think so13:25
|Dreams|may be wrong one minute will have a look13:26
directhexsincerely doubt it13:27
daubersI want a telle with 10GbE on it, so I can play back uncompressed 10bit :)13:35
directhexdaubers, with which type of SFP+?13:36
daubersPah, SFP+'s are old school! Just get an XFP to CX4 :p13:36
daubersOr just plain CX4 on the back13:36
directhexXFP is dead.13:36
* mungojerry still has an old telly13:37
directhexi got a new telly for xmas. it's in three dees13:37
mungojerrymy telly's in 3d..if you mean that it's rather deep and only just fits in the alcove13:37
daubersdirecthex: digital, dynamic, d............ead pixels?13:38
daubersOr, height/width/smell :)13:38
directhexdaubers, i don't think i have any dead pixels. none i've noticed13:38
daubersMy telle is 3d by default as it has an x,y and shows miving images, so moves in time13:39
daubersI'm waiting till I can afford a new PC with a 3D monitor, just so I can have a whizzy 3D UI13:39
* mungojerry reads the popey /mpt twitter discussion with raised eyebrows13:40
mungojerrypopey: i think he needs a new shovel as well as laptop..the digging isn't helping13:42
mungojerrythe problem with working at canonical is that the whole community gets to tell you if you screw up. whereas at my workplace it only affects my company13:42
mungojerrypopey: well he admitted that he hadn't looked at unity and is trying to dig himself out of a hole by saying that he had problems with his laptop13:42
mungojerrybut didn't seem to try very hard13:43
* popey shrugs13:43
mungojerrythe rest of us install it out of enthusiam...some people should be installing out of necessity13:43
mungojerryironically, this is one of the worst PR issues of late,  in my book13:44
mungojerrythose conversations should probably have been kept in-house13:45
popeythis is nothing compared to bansheegate or canonignomeappindicatorgate13:45
BigRedSI almost completely missed both those gates13:46
BigRedSjust sort of heard of them in passign afterwards13:46
mungojerrywell, those were stirred up by trolls on *planet13:46
shaunois there's a huge difference between pecking on *planet and on a ML?13:47
mungojerryi don't know the number of eyes13:47
mungojerryi only read the RSS feeds and let the blogs/planets tell me what's happening13:48
=== denny_ is now known as denny
mungojerrythough if the trolling on gnomeplanet continues i'll probably give it a miss13:50
shaunop.g.o used to be pretty neat.  was about the only place I'd hear about what the fe#@!a camp were up to13:52
* mungojerry used to be a fedora user13:53
popeyi used fedora for an hour13:53
popeydidnt like it13:54
mungojerryused redhat + fedora from 1999 until 200513:54
directhexfedora is dumb13:54
directhexlet me explain how fedora is dumb. if you do a CD install, then the default desktop is not on the first or 1+2 CD. it's spread out. and you even end up re-inserting the same CD more than once13:55
mungojerrythe thing that made me switch to ubuntu was the depdendency problems in compiling a particular package13:55
directhexthis may no longer be true, but it was last time i tried fedora13:55
shaunoand this is why I censor myself ;)13:55
mungojerrybtw does anyone know of the best way i can inventorize my dvd collection using ubuntu and/or android phone13:56
shaunobut last I paid attention, RH were still a fairly major contributor to gnome.  so was nice to hear some news from that camp, at least13:56
mungojerrywas thinking maybe barcode reader + cool software to computerize my colleciton13:57
directhexRH are institutionally a big gnome contributor13:57
directhexultimately, i don't care, i just hack on my little piece of the world13:57
ali1234wait, what happened now?13:58
popeykeep up ali1234 ! :D13:59
popeypsst: I have no idea13:59
screen-xthat would be an awesome nick14:01
mungojerryOlder tweets are temporarily unavailable - when have they ever been available :(14:02
mungojerrymaybe that feature is only available to pro users :)14:02
mungojerryi'm getting lazy with my natty test box...rather than type sudo reboot, i'm typing alt-sysrq-b most of the time :S14:09
ali1234ok i fgured it out :)14:18
popeyall caught up now ali1234 ?14:19
ali1234this mpt fellow seems to actually "get it"14:19
czajkowskishame it takes a bug report and mail to resolve it or bring it to light14:22
czajkowskiwhen they all sit in the same office wiht one another14:22
mungojerryali1234: except for the bit about trying the software ages ago14:22
ali1234mungojerry: yeah well it's not his fault that they are trying to push unity into the distro when it clearly isn't ready14:22
mungojerryi'm liking the enhancements that andrea azzarone has done, i'm glad they accepted his resizing launcher patch, and his new patch is good idea too14:23
ali1234the main problem is that the easiest way to get it is to install +1... does it even work on my nvidia card yet?14:23
ali1234nouveau project won't even accept bug reports if you have 3d acceleration turned on14:23
kazadeali1234, although if you have issues just head over to #nouveau and it'll get sorted pretty quickly14:24
ali1234it will get sorted by them saying "we don't support 3d"14:24
kazadeali1234, Unity should work on Nouveau now, I know that popey has had it "working"14:25
ali1234last time i was there it was even written in the topic14:25
ali1234unity needs 3d acceleration, therefore unity on nouveau is not supported by nouveau upstream14:25
mungojerryi wonder if unity2d will end up superceding 3d14:26
popeyi have used it with the experimental driver14:26
kazadestill no podcast :(14:27
popeywe dont release until tonight14:27
kazadeaww man14:27
kazadeneeded something to pass the time at work14:28
popeydownload and listen to answer me this podcast14:28
kazadewell, aside from actually working14:28
kazadelol, NSFW?14:28
popeyNot Safe For Work14:28
popeyi.e. wear headphones14:28
popeythey use roood words14:28
kazadeI know what NSFW is popey..14:28
kazade<kazade> needed something to pass the time at work14:28
popeyI did wonder14:29
ali1234go on facebook14:29
ali1234that's what it is for14:29
mungojerrywho's to blame for the rooderies?14:29
popeyits all about blame with you!14:30
shaunopodcasts are a bit odd for nsfw.  I download on my phone, listen on my phone, there's nothing indiscreet14:30
shaunoit's a bit dofferent from watching goat pr0ns.  so nsfw is 'workable with a heads-up' :)14:30
mungojerryi found lugradio NSFM14:32
mungojerrymore swearing than billy connolly stepping on a drawing pin14:32
mungojerryfound it difficult to listen to any content14:32
mungojerryperhaps everyone was a bit drunk14:33
mungojerryi may just have been unlucky with the episode i tried14:33
shaunocan't say I ever noticed that14:35
shaunobut then I grew up in/around sailors; it'd have to be pretty extreme to be noticable14:36
|Dreams|any quality lost when usin dvi to hdmi cable?14:36
shaunoshouldn't be, it's digital at both ends14:37
mungojerryarent' there  rules about the max resolution you can send down one of those cables, to stop bluray copying, or have i go tthe wrong idea?14:38
screen-xmungojerry: hdcp..14:38
|Dreams|i was wondering if sound still works through one of these cables as i thogught dvi was video only14:38
shaunonot sure I'd call hdcp a loss in quality.  treating your customers as criminals, maybe ;)14:39
mungojerrywhat are the implications of hdcp14:39
screen-x|Dreams|: you are correct, DVI is video only, you'll need to route sound seperately14:39
screen-xyou can get hdmi audio injectors, but they are expensive14:39
shauno|Dreams|: I don't get audio via mine.  I run dvi->hdmi, then headpone socket to photo jacks14:40
screen-x*at time of last research ~ages ago14:40
shaunoI think to 'inject' audio into hdmi it'd have to convert it to digital? so it's not going to be a $5 cable14:40
screen-xshauno: yep14:42
shaunomy laptop has optical out for audio; wonder if they could piggy-back that somehow14:43
shaunoI'll take that as a yes :)14:46
shauno(didn't know the name for optical off-hand; just that if my headphone socket is glowing, the pin's stuck again)14:46
lubotu3To install a Java runtime on Ubuntu on 10.04 LTS and newer, see http://tinyurl.com/2ffg7cc -  For the Sun Java products and browser plugin, search for the sun-java6- packages in the !partner repository on Lucid (which must be enabled), or !multiverse repository on older releases.14:50
DJonesInteresting looking device http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/15/preview_tablet_asus_eee_pad_slider/ and at a reasonable price, although a netbook could be bought for cheaper14:52
mungojerryDJones: remember the psion 7 netbook?14:53
DJonesmungojerry: Yes, although I was thinking that there was a sharp device of a similar nature14:54
mungojerryit looks great (the eee pad slider)14:55
mungojerryexcept for the smashability of the screne14:56
DJonesi would think all tablet screens stand the same risk14:57
mungojerry<troll> yeah, but aren't ipads just used in front of the telly by rich people? this one you might actually use </troll>14:57
shaunosounds like a fair use-case to me.  I find it difficult to sit thru most things on TV without checking up on my phone near-constantly14:59
dogmatic69anyone unfortunate enough to know svn? trying to find a way to move a repo with checkout and push to a new server15:01
mungojerrystephen fry probably has one ipad per room15:01
dogmatic69like git clone <repo> git push <new-repo>15:01
* popey sighs15:03
mungojerrylol, lots of psion comments in the el reg article15:07
* mungojerry used to have a psion revo 15:07
mchildWhere is the mysql db if I need to move that part of the file system to a new partition?15:09
screen-xmchild: /var/lib/mysql15:11
mchildthanks, that's the db i meant15:11
=== iulian_ is now known as iulian
* BigRedS wants a 5mx again15:15
screen-xBigRedS: I had a series 5, it was awesome :)15:15
mungojerrydidn't they have backlights? the revo lasted for ages but no backligh15:15
mungojerryi still have a revo but replaced it when android came15:16
screen-xseries 5 had a turquoise backlight15:16
mungojerryand better keyboard15:17
screen-xYeah, still havent seen a better keyboard on a mobile device15:17
mungojerryi used to do my home accounts on spreadsheets on my psion15:17
mungojerrydoes android allow google docs editing yet?15:17
screen-xI wrote programs for maths coursework in opl \o/15:17
mungojerrythe bash shell was cool too15:18
mungojerrydecent company and decent  hardware15:18
mungojerrybacked up by great software15:18
BigRedSThere was an ex-Psion techy threatening to make a successor to the psion a couple of years ago15:19
BigRedSbut I've heard nothing about it since an article I think on the reg15:20
mungojerrydidn't it run win xp?15:20
BigRedSI thought it was winxp or epoch? Or, at least, somethign non-windowsy as an alternative15:20
BigRedSI was basically interested in a reasonable keyboard and quick bootup15:20
DJonesmungojerry: http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2010/11/google-speeds-up-google-docs-m.php15:20
mungojerryBigRedS: http://www.psixpda.com/15:21
mungojerryDJones: thanks, i hope there's an app too... seems like a lot of clicks to get there. i also seem to remember that you can't edit old docs that you didn't create on android15:22
BigRedSmungojerry: bah. No non-windows apparently :(15:22
mungojerryBigRedS: it's also ancient now probably15:22
mungojerryi think one of the prof's in the dept has one15:23
HazRPGhi all :)15:23
BigRedSmungojerry: they mention Ubuntu in passing, so it's probably not so daft hardwarewise.15:23
BigRedSbut must be x86 to do Windows, thinking about it15:23
mungojerryintel atom15:24
mungojerryhello HazRPG15:25
directhexmy camera arrived :>15:25
HazRPGmungojerry: alright squire :)15:29
HazRPGdirecthex: \o/15:30
screen-xwhat is it directhex?15:30
directhexscreen-x, fujifilm w315:30
screen-xdirecthex: its got threedeees!15:31
directhexscreen-x, yes!15:31
mungojerryugh noticing some ugly behaviour in unity15:35
mungojerryanyone running it wanna try replicate?15:36
mungojerrynevermind i found a related bug15:37
HazRPGmungojerry: heh, I'm noticing ugly behaviour in 10.10 but apparently it's a known bug :/15:41
shaunoI didn't notice anything I wouldn't call ugly.  not having 3daccell blows :)15:44
mungojerrynoticed also the long-clicking on applications in the launcher has a new functionality15:58
mungojerrythe downside is that long clicking anything in my launcher makes all the icons shift downwards by about 5 icon heights15:59
shaunoheh, never noticed that before .. nmap localhost drives irssi-proxy nuts15:59
screen-xhmm mouse keyboard conflict16:03
shaunowho won?16:04
czajkowskihttp://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/  nice amount of people using the LD16:04
screen-xshauno: not sure, but the keyboard got some interaction that wasn't aimed at it.16:04
popeyczajkowski: be nice if that url didnt have a team number in it16:05
tervonatty alpah3 got released16:05
czajkowskipopey: as in see Ubuntu-~UK ?  instead of the number16:12
shaunothat'd be pretty tidy (/semantic)16:13
popeyczajkowski: yes16:13
czajkowskiok let me file a bug16:13
screen-xpossibly that number is an event id?16:13
popeyno its the team id16:13
screen-xbut its details of a specific event, and there any other IDs in the url16:14
shaunoare you sure?16:14
shaunoeg; http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/652/detail/ is also -uk, but a different event (and id)16:14
czajkowskihttps://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/736208  folsk can ME to16:15
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 736208 in loco-directory "Team name in the URL for an event would be great" [Undecided,New]16:15
* popey wonders if czajkowski has done her usual one line bug report or whether she's actually put detail on it16:15
dogmatic69anyone have some recommendations for backups on ec2?16:16
dogmatic69does that do a full image thing16:16
dogmatic69oh wait...16:16
dogmatic69like an app -> S316:17
* czajkowski pokes popey 16:17
bigcalmWe use it at work16:17
dogmatic69https://www.jungledisk.com/ ?16:18
czajkowskiI have a lovely hand drawn butterfly on my desk thanks to popey daughtter16:18
bigcalmJungle disk basicly maps a bucket within S3 to a drive on your machine. It can also backup selected folders as required16:18
screen-xdogmatic69: deja dup16:18
dogmatic69tx screen-x16:19
Myrttiho               hum16:19
dogmatic69is that gonna run on ubuntu server? it says its gnome based16:19
popeyyeah, ignore me16:20
popeyi misunderstood the requirements16:20
bigcalmMyrtti: you need a smile, have you looked at any kittens recently?16:20
screen-xdogmatic69: yeah its graphical.16:20
Myrttibigcalm: the last kitty I've looked at has been banished because it peed on some shoes even after the snip16:21
MyrttiI've been awake for good 12 hrs today and have eaten a) breadroll b) travel sickness pill. Also the reason I've been awake from ungodly hours was canceled, as the patient had a fever.16:22
AzelphurI'm getting that weird minecraft behaviour again, I'm starting to think my ISP is doing some form of throttling during the day16:22
screen-xdogmatic69: there is a ppa for s3fs, I haven't tested it. https://launchpad.net/~zlj/+archive/test-daily16:22
Azelphurduring the day I can't sign into steam or play minecraft without 20+ seconds lag, but at night it's fine, if I tether to my phone it's also fine :S16:22
dogmatic69i saw something the other day that could create backups that was even usable as a live disk16:22
MyrttiI think I'll go eat the fridge. Freons from the '70s feel nommy in my tummy16:22
screen-xMyrtti: how about some fruit instead?16:23
mungojerryAzelphur: are you on virgin broadband?16:24
Azelphurno, I'm on enta.net, they specifically claim no shaping at all which makes this even more weird16:25
screen-xAzelphur: contention rather than shaping?16:25
mungojerryare you actually dropping packets too Azelphur16:25
dogmatic69ah, http://www.geekconnection.org/remastersys/16:25
dogmatic69anyone used that?16:25
shaunotried shifting the server onto a more standard port to see if it changes?16:25
Azelphurmungojerry: not according to htop16:26
AzelphurI get problems with youtube too, I'm just about to run a fancy test if your youtube is being throttled test16:26
screen-xAzelphur: htop?16:26
Azelphurwhoooops, I meant mtr16:26
Myrttion this historic day, Myrtti finds out she actually does have some fruit she'd eat in her fridge.16:26
Azelphurdunno why I said htop there :S16:26
screen-xMyrtti: \o/16:26
mungojerryMyrtti: chocolate orange does not count as fruit :)16:27
shaunothat's usually first thing I do when I want to blame my isp.  bump it onto 443 and see if the behaviour changes16:27
MyrttiI do miss UK quite often, and fruit selection at Tesco is one of those things I especially miss16:27
AzelphurI'm running some glasnost tests :)16:27
Myrttimungojerry: grapes do16:27
DJonesmungojerry: Chocolate Raisons count as fruit though16:27
Myrtti♥ galia melon16:28
mungojerryDJones: i've gone off chocolate raisins a bit since feeding raisins to my 1 yr old son16:29
mungojerryhe converts them into chocolate raisins16:29
JamesTaitmungojerry: LOL16:31
* DJones doesn't want to know that16:31
MyrttiI've been off raisins since we got a Christmas goodie bag at school on last school day before Christmas which contained one small orange, box of raisins and a chocolate covered wafer bar16:35
diploafternoon all16:36
shaunoyou get(/got) christmas goodie bags?16:36
AzelphurYour ISP appears to rate limit your FlashVideo downloads. In our tests, downloads using control flows achieved up to 53 Kbps while downloads using FlashVideo achieved up to 1411 Kbps.16:36
Azelphuroh dear...16:36
mungojerryCRC errors on your line?16:37
Myrttishauno: yup, this was in the 80's before the economy crashed due to Soviet trade dying16:37
Azelphurmungojerry: how can I tell?16:37
mungojerrypile up on the information superhighway Azelphur?16:37
Myrttishauno: not sure if they still are given tho16:37
shaunowe got dragged off down the church for some ritual abuse, taken back to school, then told being on school property over the holiday would be trespassing16:37
mungojerryAzelphur: look at your cable modem http interface16:38
screen-xinformation superhighway, such a great term :)16:38
Azelphurmungojerry: look for what?16:38
Myrttishauno: christmas pageant every year with some mandatory ritual abuse16:38
mungojerrystats page should show any line quality issues16:38
Myrttioh dear, I hope I don't get sick16:39
mungojerrywhich cable modem do you have Azelphur16:39
Azelphurmungojerry: I'm not on cable I'm on DSL?16:39
shaunoI'm reliably informed grapes don't make you sick16:39
mungojerrysorry, your DSL mdem16:39
shauno(the missus has been telling me for years that eating green things won't kill me)16:39
Azelphurmungojerry: I think it's a speed touch, but it's inaccessible on the network16:39
mungojerrycan't you visit the IP address in a web browser ?16:39
screen-xshauno: they have some interesting effects if you tread on them, then put in a bottle and leave for a while16:39
AzelphurI just have it set up to dial dumb via PPPoE from the router16:40
Azelphurso I can visit the router, but not the modem because the web panel and all other features are off16:40
shaunoscreen-x: to be fair, most foods would fair worse under the same conditions :)16:40
screen-xshauno: yeah16:40
Azelphurmungojerry: so basically it's just a dumb modem, not a router ;)16:40
Myrttishauno: SO has had the flu this week, I'm not too happy because I can't visit mum if I get sick16:41
shaunoreminds me, I got a nice chunk of time off coming.  I should get some more mead going16:41
Myrttialthough, being sick would be a good excuse of not going... I feel so guilty now16:41
Myrttimmmm mead, it is almost may day16:41
mungojerryAzelphur: not sure i completely understand your setup but maybe enable firewall and plug directly to modem to check all is well..then speak to ISP16:41
mungojerrymaybe ISp can check modem anyway?16:41
Azelphuryea, that's a nightmare to do in this house :P16:42
Azelphureveryone has temper tantrums if the internet goes down for more than about 20 seconds16:42
screen-xAzelphur: sounds like most workplaces16:42
Azelphuronly this is home :P16:42
mungojerrydress up as an engineer and pretend you are from the phone company16:45
AzelphurI dunno this glasnost test seems pretty conclusive if I'm understanding what they are saying right16:45
AzelphurIn our tests, downloads using control flows achieved up to 53 Kbps while downloads using FlashVideo achieved up to 1411 Kbps.16:46
AzelphurI'm running the BitTorrent test now16:47
shaunohave you tried just calling them and asking what's changed?16:47
AzelphurI'm not the account holder :(16:47
MyrttiI always manage to persuade the tech help to tell me what's wrong even when I'm not the account holder16:48
Azelphureven if they do admit to throttling which is unlikely there's still nothing much I can do about it16:48
AzelphurI'll just gnasnost, VPN and glasnost again and see what my results are16:49
Azelphurthen the results are pretty conclusive :P16:49
shaunoI'd enquire what the options are to make it go away.  if they think they're turning it into an upsell, they'll talk16:49
screen-xAzelphur: last time I got throttled (for over usage) they reset the counter pretty quick when I requested my MAC16:49
Azelphurmy dad won't switch, we're currently on 60GB/month for 6 heavy users16:50
Azelphurand every month he goes around fuming at a random person he picked because they must be the person using all the bandwith because it was fine 3 months ago when we only had 2 people in the house.16:51
* Azelphur sighs16:51
directhexparallax barrier is weird16:51
screen-xdirecthex: does it have optilca zoom? presumably it would need motors to go more/less cross eyed as you zoom in/out?16:52
mungojerryAzelphur: entanet shaping has a lot of google activity16:52
directhexscreen-x, the zoom is limited (3x) and done more or less in-lens16:52
directhexscreen-x, the distance between the lenses means you can't do 3d pics closer than about 1.5m16:53
screen-xdirecthex: are the lenses exactly parallel?16:53
MyrttiI gave up and got a cheese butty16:54
screen-xdirecthex: so there must be a cone point where the 3d effect is optimum16:54
directhexscreen-x, yeah, about 2m away16:54
* screen-x begins to understand16:55
directhexit supports sony-style 3d, where required16:55
directhexfor 3d macro images16:55
directhexsony-style meaning "take one picture, move camera by hand a few cm to the right, take second picture"16:56
shaunohey, my camera can do that!16:58
* Myrtti has ordered the house elf who just arrived to cook due to being late16:58
screen-xMyrtti: have you got a spare house elf?16:59
sirgadHi. Problem installing Ubuntu to Parallels 4 on OS X 10.6.6.  Boots from Ubuntu iso with error message "(initramfs) unable to find a medium containing a live file system".  ISO passes MD5 checksum.  Any ideas?16:59
Myrttiscreen-x: yeah, it flies from UK once in a while to visit16:59
bigcalmPeople have had to make do: how easy is it to transition from a GB to US keyboard layout?16:59
shaunoyou get used to it17:00
bigcalmI don't know how well though. My laptop will still be a GB layout17:00
shaunoI find it much easier if the keyboards are physically different.  it just becomes part of the difference typing on them17:01
shaunoeg, I have 'chicklet' keys at home and typewriter keys at work.  so there's a mental jump between the two, and @ being on the wrong GRRRing button gets swept into that mental jump17:01
screen-xsirgad: can you choose the type of cd drive that parallels is emulating? if so try a different type17:02
sirgadthanks screen-x, i'll look into it now.17:02
shaunosirgad: I'd also check OSX hasn't mounted the iso (as it's apt to do if you just downloaded it in safari)17:02
sirgadthat's not an issue here, i disable that in Safari, but thanks.17:03
shauno(I believe it's crazy enough to mount them read/write, which would stop parallels getting a lock on it)17:03
Azelphuryup, my ISP is throttling17:04
Azelphurpretty conclusive test17:04
Azelphurminecraft with ssh tunnel = perfect17:04
Azelphurminecraft without ssh tunnel = 20+ seconds lag17:04
sirgadscreen-x: it's currently set to IDE optical drive emulation. Shall I try SCSI? no SATA.17:04
screen-xsirgad: try all the options..17:05
screen-xAny tips for phone interview tomorrow?17:08
sirgadscreen-x: Parallels doesn't seem to allow booting from a SCSI virtual optical drive :/17:09
Azelphuryea, pretty safe to assume that enta.net are liars now imo17:09
sirgadTrying now with a re-assigned … ah, no, it's failing with the same error.17:09
shaunoscreen-x: eat, decaff, chill :)17:09
screen-xsirgad: :( I'm afraid I don't have any more suggestions as I havent used parallels.17:09
screen-xshauno: :)17:09
mungojerryAzelphur: i'm surprised entanet said they weren't throttling, did they tell u that?17:09
Azelphurthey say they don't shape, but I can't access WoW, Steam or Minecraft during the day and glasnost tests says they are throttling17:09
shaunoI'll be able to poke at parallels when I get home in a couple of hours17:10
sirgadyou reckon it's a parallels issue then, not ubuntu? fair enough, i'll pursue this on their forums. Ta.17:10
Azelphurmungojerry: yup when I signed up it had big signs saying NO SHAPING17:10
Azelphurin capitol letters :(17:10
mungojerrythe items i'm reading about are from 200917:10
screen-xAzelphur: screenshot or it didnt happen (way back machine may help here..)17:10
Azelphurlol that was a good 4 years ago17:10
shaunothat's not too way back for waaayback :)17:11
mungojerryhttp://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews130895.html: Started out at 1.5MBs (that's very good for this area), and gradually  decreased to 12KBs over the period of one month. No line fault - it was  Entanet throttling the connection.17:11
ali1234they have 24/7 UK support right? so just keep ringing them and complaining17:11
shaunooh good lord.  web.archive.org is on our new nannyfilter too.  nerdrage!17:12
mungojerryAzelphur: t&cs have no mention of NOT throttling..17:13
ali1234you can contact their tech support on voip for free apparently17:13
Azelphurmungojerry: it's just more ammo for me trying to get us switched off this ridiculous ISP :p17:14
ali1234besides "no throttling" would pretty much cause the problem you are seeing, not fix it17:14
Azelphurthe speeds are crap, the bandwith allowance is crap, and they throttle, and they have a FUP17:14
mungojerryIf Entanet determines that excessive bandwidth or disk space utilisation  is adversely affecting Entanet's ability to provide service, Entanet  may take immediate action. Entanet will attempt to notify the account  owner by e-mail as soon as possible.17:14
ali1234also it was "no shaping" not "no throttling" right?17:14
Azelphurand my dad refuses to switch in case the ISP we switch to has any of the above :D17:14
Azelphurali1234: think it might have been no throttling actually17:14
* daubers drinks moar coffee17:15
ali1234so just hammer it until they kick you off, problem solved17:15
mungojerryfind out the big bandwidth user in your house17:15
AzelphurI get very tempted to, but when we get close to the limit my dad sends my mum up to tell me that if I don't stop they'll cut my electricity off \o/17:15
mungojerryAzelphur: so it's YOU then..:P17:16
Azelphurmungojerry: haha, it's actually nobody, I got per-user running on the router and found that everyone was using more than 3x of their fair share17:16
Azelphurshowed it to my mum, next week they wrote a letter to the lodger telling him if he didn't use less internet they was going to cut him off :D17:17
ali1234i think you and the lodger should write a letter back saying "do it"17:17
mungojerrysounds like your mum should work for entanet17:17
ali1234then get your own internet17:17
Azelphurali1234: that's what I've been trying to do :D17:17
ali1234and when they ask you to fix their computers next time, charge then £50/hour17:17
mungojerryget friendly with the neighbour17:17
mungojerryor, find a really good ISP deal17:17
mungojerrydads never refuse a bargain17:17
mungojerryi'm a dad too17:18
Azelphurali1234: the other day my mum even had the cheek to say she was going to steal _MY_ router, lock me out of it, and not allow me to have any internet17:18
AzelphurI just told her if she did that I'd DoS the house and make all the bandwith go in a day :)17:18
ali1234Azelphur: ok your mum is nuts, time to move out17:18
shaunoprotip.  3g dongle.17:18
Azelphuryup, working on the moving out thing :D17:18
shaunobeing grounded will never be the same again17:18
AzelphurI'm actually 20 and pay rent ironically, I really do need to move out :p17:18
mungojerryi struggle to use more than a few gig a month17:19
shaunoI used to have that situation with me ma.  grounded .. he sits in his room 'n plays with his computers.  not grounded .. he sits in his room and plays with his computers.  remove the computers?  you'll have to get past the rabid nerd!17:19
brobostigonafternoonings everyone.17:19
Azelphurmungojerry: that's pretty much what we're using, 60GB isn't a lot to go between 5 people17:20
mungojerryit's more than browsing though17:20
directhex60GB is nothing. i can use that in a day17:20
mungojerrymaybe you should perform your own shaping on bittorrent traffic17:20
Azelphurindeed, I could too17:21
ali1234directhex: how?17:21
Azelphurmungojerry: I don't torrent at all unless it's off peak (offpeak is unmetered)17:21
mungojerryyeah, i just mirrored the scientificlinux v6 mirror 22Gb...arrived in 15mins17:21
directhexlet's give a concrete example. install Grand Theft Auto 4 from Stream, that's 12gb17:21
Azelphurthe majority of the bandwith goes on games, video streaming17:21
directhexthen the expansions, that's an extra 12GB17:21
Azelphurdirecthex: haha :D17:21
ali1234oh, steam17:21
Azelphurdirecthex: or "play wow"17:22
directhexnow, install the MMO of your choice17:22
directhexah, see?17:22
ali1234is there any way you can use it legally without buying stuff?17:22
shaunowow's client was a good 10Gb worth last I looked17:22
shaunowith their new 'streaming client' so the whole whack is delivered via bittorrent, it's a fun way to find out your isp don't like you17:22
* mungojerry is thinking his ISP should send him a bonus as he's a low data user17:23
AzelphurWoW + Expansions comes to 23.7GB to me17:23
directhexAzelphur, on disk, or installer downloads?17:23
ali1234gta4 might be 24GB but it also costs £2417:23
Azelphurdirecthex: on disk17:23
directhexali1234, i already bought it at xmas17:23
directhexAzelphur, i guess about 10gb of download, then. LOTRO is 10gb.17:24
ali1234if you can afford to spend £60/day on PC games you can afford a better internet package too17:24
popeywhat he said17:24
directhexi think age of conan is bigger than that17:24
directhexali1234, you know you can re-download games you buy, right? my steam account has games in it i bought in 200617:24
shaunoyou buy a game once tho.17:24
shauno24 quid at christmas vs 60*12 ..17:24
ali1234so you redownload GTA4 twice every day just to annoy your ISP?17:24
shaunoI blow my steam folder away whenever my disk space looks sketchy17:25
Azelphurali1234: no, but if you buy one game a month and you play the existing ones and download the huge 1GB patches that come out and expansions and...17:25
shaunosimply because I know it's a decent chunk of disk that'll come back when I ask for it17:25
Azelphurit all adds up very quickly17:25
ali1234i am not disputing that17:26
directhexali1234, not every day. but easily once in a single day.17:26
ali1234i am disputing that a reasonable person can legitimately use 60GB of bandwidth a day without spending £60 a day buying online content17:26
ali1234sure, anyone can do it once :)17:26
shaunono-one said daily :)17:26
ali1234doing it once doesn't matter17:27
ali1234nothing bad going to happen to you17:27
ali1234at worst you'll be throttled for the rest of the month. big deal17:27
mungojerryreminded of a line in spooks that he saw last night: "what's going to happen to me?" "bad things"17:27
ali1234since you'll have already downloaded enough to keep you entertained for at least that long17:27
shaunosurprised no-one's added 'seed an ubuntu release' to that.  I left that running longer than I intended on my vps once :/17:28
ali1234i seed the ubuntu CDs on ADSL17:28
ali1234i see about 5 GB of uploads in the first month, and then it tails off17:28
mungojerrysupposed to be off for drinks @ liv st now17:28
directhexi'm looking at bt infinity... 7.5mbit upstream predicted17:28
directhexDaviey, based on line length, versus maximum17:29
shaunoI'd hazard a guess that seeding on 100mbit up vs residential up is a rather significant difference17:29
Davieymost likely with a fair usage cap of 0.1mbit 95th percentile17:29
directhexDaviey, the 300gb fair usage cap was axed a fortnight ago17:30
ali1234if there was a internet package with guaranteed 0.1mbit up/down i would get it17:30
ali1234if it was same price as regular broadband that is17:30
directhex...dual bonded isdn?17:31
ali1234... is not the same price as regular broadband17:31
Davieyali1234, create a local mirror of the ubuntu archive, then debian archive... that eats bandwidth... :)17:31
ali1234it does not use 60GB per day every day17:32
DavieyI did find that disk writes were too slow, so i started using /dev/null... writes were REALLY fast!17:32
shaunothat's just silly.  you can cache apt without needing the whole debian pool local17:32
Davieyshauno, and doing package inspection?17:32
shaunodebian's the closest thing linux has to netbsd.  if you just mirror the whole lot, you're going to have a good number of arch you'll never look at17:33
shaunoseems pool is up to 500Gb now.  personally, yes I would have second thoughts about pulling that locally without a very fine reason17:37
bigcalmJust noticed that my bytemark host is running 9.04. What are the chances of distupgrade killing the vm?17:39
shaunoare they using a stock kernel?17:40
shaunothat looks like it's one of theirs; I'd ask them before trying :)17:41
shauno(I tend to assume if stock worked, the next stock would work too; and if stock worked, they wouldn't go to the effort of custom.  so assume there's a reason there's a custom kernel)17:45
BigRedSbigcalm: none of mine (debian) ever broke17:59
BigRedSthey don't upgrade the box for you, but they put their kernels in their mirrors17:59
BigRedSIIRC apt comes preconfigured to not break your kernel by downloading stock ones18:00
bigcalmTa for the info18:02
* bigcalm hopes that it stays true for later releases18:04
shaunostackexchange is rather annoying when you put a lot of work into an answer, and it goes completely unnoticed.  bleh.18:08
bigcalmI think I've just locked myself out of my admin serial console18:11
* bigcalm grumbles and does something else18:11
Myrttiwohey, my house elf and I have tom yum gai cooking again18:12
Myrttialthough I wish it were done already18:14
MartijnVdSYao guai cooking?18:15
morleypotterHi Guys, any tips on the best seamless virtualization package, I've just tried vmware player and very impressed but i'm having window issues so i'm on the hunt for something else.18:23
=== cbx333 is now known as cbx33
MartijnVdS\o everyone19:09
brobostigonnoswaith dda MartijnVdS19:10
MartijnVdShappy Welsh to you too ;)19:10
MartijnVdSooh, Bob Ross on TV19:11
brobostigonnoswaith dda Taurus_19:17
MartijnVdSWhat's everyone doing tonight?19:19
brobostigonMartijnVdS: trying to playwith wayland on natty, and you?19:20
MartijnVdSWatching some TV19:21
MartijnVdSrecovering from my run :)19:21
brobostigonMartijnVdS: andfailing, as icant see a wayto run it standalone. andnot with inside a silly window.19:22
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: maybe in a vm? maybe it's not "done enough" yet?19:22
brobostigonMartijnVdS: maybe, but i might try and install it ontop of my cli natty, as its onlychoice is to run on its own.19:23
popeywhy not just y'know, run natty and file bugs and stuff19:25
ali1234popey: i see a question from askubuntu on the front page of stackexchange.com so i guess it really is just like the other subdomains, but reskinned19:26
MartijnVdSpopey: you mean natty has bugs?!?!19:26
popeyjust found another19:26
popeywhat determines the window placement on the screen?19:26
MartijnVdSpopey: I think so19:26
* popey files a compiz bug19:26
MartijnVdShinted by the app19:26
MartijnVdSbut wm decides19:26
MartijnVdShasn't twinview always been horrible?19:28
MartijnVdSre: placement19:28
ali1234historically yes19:28
ali1234it's not so bad these days19:28
ali1234except for fullscreen flash ofc19:29
MartijnVdSpopey: that's an Nvidia driver bug, or a config fail, I think19:29
MartijnVdSit would be if you were using xrandr -- you can configure gaps between screens using xrandr19:29
ali1234that's misconfiguration :)19:30
brobostigonpopey: iwas just being curious, justwanted to see.19:30
ali1234popey: show your xorg.conf or a screenshot of whatever tool you used to configure monitors :)19:31
ali1234ah i see your xorg.conf19:31
ali1234but it does not show the screen res of each monitor19:31
ali1234well my suspicion is that CRT-0 isnt actually running at 1680xwhatever19:32
ali1234so i would do a screenshot of the full desktop and measure the number of pixels on each display19:33
ali1234also have a window over the two displays when you take the screenshot :)19:33
popeyin that screenshot I can't see the first two window buttons19:35
popeyi cant see the w of wopr19:35
ali12343360 = 1680x219:35
ali1234but your rightmost monitor is running at some other resolution19:35
ali1234possibly because of this: ModeLine     "1280x720R" 63.75 1280 1328 1360 1440 720 723 728 741 +hsync -vsync19:36
popeyi have changed res with the nvidia thing19:36
ali1234click on the CRT-1 and screenshot again please :)19:36
ali1234also does your monitor have a menu where it can show the current screen mode? check that...19:37
popeythey are both in auto mode19:37
popeyah fixed19:38
ali1234is should still be able to tell you the screen mode in use19:38
popeyre-did auto on screen 219:38
popeyta :)19:38
ali1234ah the thing that shifts the picture around?19:38
popeymust have been ever so slightly stretched19:38
ali1234yeah that would do it too :)19:38
popeywiggled a bit and now its fine19:38
popeythanks, feel silly now, sure I tried that19:38
ali1234yeah that can happen when they update the driver and it changes the refresh rates slightly19:38
popeyyou are too kind19:39
brobostigonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5ybkhb7sI&feature=player_embedded deadfunny.19:39
popeyoh dear19:41
shaunoI gotta say popey's video was funny.  while he's not quite sure if describing the gap (in the picture) while staring at the (physical) gap makes sense19:46
popeyi have another i need to make19:46
* popey makes said video19:47
* popey files bug 73636319:51
lubotu3Launchpad bug 736363 in compiz (Ubuntu) "New Windows on an empty desktop appear over launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73636319:51
popeynice number19:51
kirrusBigRedS: ping20:17
shaunocan't decide whether this level of boredom calls for TV or bed.  either's a bit extreme at 8pm20:28
directhexplay games until 2am.20:32
directhexlike a boss20:32
shaunowork at 6 :(20:33
shauno(soaking up the bank holiday pay.  my paddy's day is 12hr shift + 12hr oncall)20:33
brobostigonwould it be possible to do multi-monitor, with two graphics cards, of totally different kinds and makes?20:34
directhexbrobostigon, yes, but it's a pain to configure20:34
directhexand you won't get 3d if you're mixing Free, fglrx and nvidia-glx drivers, as they all use their own libGL.so20:35
brobostigondirecthex: elaborate please.20:35
brobostigondirecthex: so iwould have to stick with the samedriver type?20:35
directhexbrobostigon, for 3d, yes20:36
* TheOpenSourcerer is ready to stop staring at computer screens for a while... Had a good day though. A customer's customer's new website went live, have migrated a new customer's CRM to our managed hosted platform and worked on a couple of new projects and chased several new leads. Phew. 20:36
directhexTheOpenSourcerer, today i discovered redmine, and how superior it is to trac20:37
TheOpenSourcererAhh - was redmine the ruby one?20:37
TheOpenSourcererA PITA to install IIRC but a good UX20:37
brobostigondirecthex: do two nvidia,etc?20:38
directhexbrobostigon, yeah, that's fine20:38
TheOpenSourcererI think directhex we got a lead for your company (collabara?) from OpenERP the other day.20:38
brobostigondirecthex: would only nvidia work? or others aswell?20:38
directhexbrobostigon, well, anything as long as you aren't mixing fglrx, nvidia-glx, and open-source drivers20:39
brobostigondirecthex: ithinki understand, thank you, :)20:39
bigcalmAfter your package information was updated the essential package20:58
bigcalm'ubuntu-minimal' can not be found anymore.20:58
bicyclerepairmaney up. I come from gentoo.21:04
bicyclerepairmanI wanted to compile something just now but the header files weren't there21:05
bicyclerepairmanis that normal under ubuntu?21:05
MartijnVdSbicyclerepairman: yes. Usually, you install software from packages21:05
bicyclerepairmanwhere should I get those header files from?21:05
MartijnVdSand if you really really need to compile something, you need to install the development bits (headers, etc.) separately21:05
MartijnVdScheck out the libfoo-dev packages21:05
MartijnVdSbut usually you don't want to compile stuff21:06
MartijnVdSunless it's your own software :)21:06
ali1234or if you need to fix bugs21:06
bicyclerepairmanwell I'm trying some examples out from a curses tutorial :-)21:06
MartijnVdSali1234: or that21:06
ali1234why curses anyway?21:08
=== kirrus is now known as Willy_Wonka
=== Willy_Wonka is now known as Kirrus
=== Kirrus is now known as WillyWonka
directhexbicyclerepairman, something like libncurses-dev21:20
bicyclerepairmanah thanks a lot :-)21:21
bicyclerepairmanali1234, just learning :-)21:22
bigcalmThe list of proposed changes is:21:34
bigcalmChanging shell of www-data from /bin/bash to /bin/sh21:34
bigcalmIs there any advantage to www-data using sh instead of bash?21:34
ali1234it brings it in line with all the other system users21:36
bigcalmIt's annoying if I do sudo su - www-data21:37
ali1234don't do it then21:37
directhexwww-data should use /bin/false :p21:39
bigcalmIt should, aye21:40
bigcalmUpgrading from 9.10 to 10.04 on my bytemark host, have this diff: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/581318/21:43
bigcalmI have no idea what it does so don't know if it's specific to the Bytemark VM setup or not. Any hints?21:43
zleapi am just grabbing it now, i just remembered  thanks though22:17
bigcalmFinally got my bytemark vm up to 10.04. I can go to sleep now22:51
screen-xbigcalm: sleep well :)22:51
* screen-x is downloading debian lenny, will install it in a vm, then test how well the upgrade to squeeze works. 22:52
ubuntuuk-planet[Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E02  Stranger in a Strange Land - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/16/s04e02-stranger-in-a-strange-land/23:08
shaunoooh, that's a bit ouch.  surely if you have to explain who rms is, you've already answered the question23:28
hamitronah ffs23:30
hamitron2 days since I fixed my sisters laptop, and it already has bad messages popping up23:30
popey:) shauno23:32
shaunosorry, missed the other night because I have absolutely no concept of time23:33
shaunoso there's a mild delay factored in there :)23:33
shaunoI did that on tuesday too.  was meaning to head out to something at the local hackerspace at 7pm.  started getting ready about midnight, and then figured out it was dark23:34
hamitronappears to be communicating a lot with a comp in Beijing23:37
directhexi say burn it23:38
shaunoI've always figured rms has to take everything to extremes; someone has to.  it's very easy to define the completely closed end of the spectrum; we need someone at the other end of the spectrum to define everything in between23:38
hamitronI've unplugged her cable23:38
shaunoit's not going to be tasty - extremists never are23:38
brobostigongood night everyone, sleep well.23:40
hamitroncya bro23:40
brobostigongood night hamitron23:40
hamitronI think I am in the mood for messing with the stupid nip23:40
hamitronwell, not technically one I suppose23:42
hamitronbut similar ;/23:42
shaunoand a good chance they're not even chinese, but using it as a convenient 'bounce' thru which it's difficult to get any information at all23:50
shaunoapparently most the major groups doing this are russian23:50
directhex33% of chinese run IE6. no wonder thay have so many zombie pcs23:51
shaunomost the time it's just a convenient screen to hide behind, because US laws result in absolutely nothing there23:52
hamitronwell still gonna take my frustration out on someone23:53
hamitronalthough feeling better now I got cake and coffee23:54
shaunoheh, sorted23:54
shaunoso, I guess the dirty question is: are you going to give her windows again and expect the same thing not to happen again?23:55
hamitrongonna give her winblows again and turn to religion, hopefully increasing the chances it won't happen23:56
shaunooh well23:56
shaunooft quoted; Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.23:57
hamitronshe has some interactive online things for college that requires IE23:57
hamitronshe finishes this year, so will see then23:58
shaunokinda glad we still did everything with stacks of paper at college23:58
hamitronI would make students use paper23:58
shaunolol, not a 'get of my lawn thing'23:58
shaunojust at the time I was using RH5 for everything but tpascal.23:59
hamitronI'd make them hand write coursework, purely to make them check spelling and grammer manually23:59
shaunothe more they try to shift it online, the more they seem to get wrong23:59
hamitronyeh :/23:59

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