[00:00] <ali1234> when i was writing my solar system program at uni i was lucky enough to have an SGI machine with hardware open gl... but the labs were all software 3d with mesa
[00:00] <hamitron> shouldn't do a lot of things, but we do them ;)
[00:00] <ali1234> but the code was no different on each
[00:00] <ali1234> well, that's not really true
[00:01] <ali1234> different implementations of opengl have different bugs
[00:01] <ali1234> if you use a 3d engine you wont need to worry about any of that
[00:01] <ali1234> that's another reason to use one
[00:02] <hamitron> so you'd use ogra?
[00:02] <hamitron> or however it is spelt
[00:02] <ali1234> ogra is the ubuntu-arm developer :)
[00:02] <ali1234> ogre3d is what i use for a 3d engine
[00:02] <ali1234> i like it because it doesn'trailroad you into making a FPS game
[00:02] <ali1234> but other engines are available
[00:03] <hamitron> but then aren't you restricted by the engine?
[00:04] <ali1234> well yes and no
[00:04] <hamitron> I mean, if you let your creative juices flow
[00:04] <ali1234> not really because what are you going to do?
[00:04] <hamitron> I intend to code a custom morph sorta thing
[00:04] <ali1234> all the 3d engine does for you is load the objects from files and manage the scene graph (aka where are the objects) and do culling and fancy effects
[00:05] <hamitron> I want to create the objects in the program
[00:05] <ali1234> you can do that in ogre, no problem
[00:05] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCeUqKeks2U
[00:05] <ali1234> ^ the whole race track is generated procedurally
[00:05] <hamitron> damn it
[00:05] <hamitron> I have youtube blocked
[00:06] <hamitron> :(
[00:06] <ali1234> whyyyyy
[00:06] <hamitron> I was asked to block sites that distract people
[00:06] <hamitron> ;)
[00:06] <ali1234> so block it for everyone but you?
[00:06] <ali1234> bofh 101
[00:07] <hamitron> I do normally have my own tunnel
[00:07] <hamitron> but been setting all my stuff up fresh
[00:07] <hamitron> :)
[00:07] <hamitron> NEW COMP \o/
[00:08] <hamitron> so with orge3d I can draw things from individual squares?
[00:08] <hamitron> drag the vertices around
[00:08] <ali1234> no
[00:08] <hamitron> and stuff
[00:08] <ali1234> nor can you do that in opengl
[00:08] <ali1234> you need to write a whole 3d editing program either way
[00:09] <hamitron> why can't opengl be used for that?
[00:09] <hamitron> :/
[00:10] <ali1234> opengl doesn't even have any mouse functions
[00:10] <ali1234> it's only for drawing
[00:10] <hamitron> oh, I used SDL with opengl
[00:10] <hamitron> with a sample thing
[00:10] <ali1234> you can make objects with modifiable geometry in ogre
[00:11] <ali1234> but you still need to write a whole UI either way
[00:11] <hamitron> it was only using the fixed function pipeline though
[00:12] <hamitron> it didn't do anything useful, was just playing :)
[00:17] <hamitron> ali1234, so I should use C++ too? :/
[00:17] <ali1234> sure
[00:18] <stuart__> hello again!
[00:18] <ali1234> you don't need to use the advanced stuff like templates
[00:18] <hamitron> I hate my C++ book
[00:18] <ali1234> stuart__: hi, did it work?
[00:18] <hamitron> still not got through it
[00:18] <stuart__> Ok, here is the craic... new user -- works in gnome and xfce.
[00:18] <ali1234> you can use ogre with python too btw, although it's kind of tricky to set up, and very hard indeed to package for windows
[00:19] <stuart__> But not for me.
[00:19] <hamitron> no way am I learning python
[00:19] <hamitron> ;/
[00:19] <hamitron> either C or C++ ty
[00:19] <ali1234> so just use C++ like it was C
[00:20] <hamitron> my book encourages a C coder to use modern C++ ways for things
[00:20] <ali1234> oh, not C++ for C programmers is it?
[00:20] <hamitron> feels like I don't even know how to code when reading some of it
[00:20] <hamitron> no
[00:20] <ali1234> i have that book, it sucks
[00:20] <hamitron> but it starts with more advanced stuff to get stuff going
[00:21] <hamitron> then teaches more of the stuff I know, nearer the back
[00:21] <ali1234> stuart__: so....... it's something in your gnome config then i guess
[00:21] <hamitron> ;)
[00:21]  * hamitron likes to reset his home directory every now and then
[00:22] <hamitron> I compare it to formating windows every few months
[00:22] <hamitron> ;)
[00:22] <stuart__> So I see. But all my lovely settings ;(
[00:23] <ali1234> stuart__: there are some settings in keyboard -> layouts -> options
[00:23] <ali1234> i don't know what any of them do but some seem to change the right alt behaviour
[00:24] <stuart__> I have looked in all of those settings and to no avail...
[00:24] <stuart__> It is an odd one though.
[00:24] <ali1234> input methods?
[00:24] <stuart__> That is a possibility.
[00:35] <hamitron> amazing
[00:35] <hamitron> looks like another fan is causing me problems
[00:36] <hamitron> unless removing power to my graphics card did it
[00:46] <shauno> don't you hate when companies use weird-ass usb cables so you can't charge your toys when you need to :(
[00:46] <hamitron> :)
[00:47] <stuart> Whoah....  é
[00:47] <stuart> It has reset. Somehow!!!! ♯
[00:50] <stuart> Well thank you all for your time. Have a great night.
[00:52] <ali1234> i just got a tip on some amazing microcontroller hardware:
[00:52] <ali1234> http://mbed.org/handbook/mbed-NXP-LPC1768
[00:52] <ali1234> £40 from farnell
[00:52] <ali1234> that blows away any arduino :)
[00:59] <hamitron> that actually looks good
[00:59] <hamitron> well small too
[01:00] <ali1234> yes, and it fits in standard protoboard
[01:05] <shauno> and there's no IDE, it's all tied into their online platform.  luckily you get a (Single) license key with the device.
[01:05] <shauno> this place changes ideologies quicker than I can spell it ;)
[01:06] <ali1234> no IDE?
[01:06] <ali1234> it's arm
[01:06] <ali1234> just use gcc :)
[01:10] <hamitron> think I'll just get a fpga
[01:10] <hamitron> but gonna complete existing projects first
[01:11] <hamitron> do you guys aquire loads of junk to "do stuff sometime"?
[01:11] <ali1234> i try not to
[01:11] <hamitron> I try ;) just fail badly
[01:11] <shauno> don't see jtag exposed on the pinout there.  so I guess you just gotta hope the 'mbed' interface is easily hackable
[01:12] <ali1234> it's programmed on serial
[01:12] <ali1234> but the first thing i would do is write a usb bootloader
[01:14] <ali1234> also, the jtag is exposed, it's multiplexed with other stuff
[01:18] <hamitron> right
[01:18] <hamitron> off to bed
[01:18] <hamitron> tired and staring at toys ali1234 is linking me to
[01:19] <hamitron> overly active brain before sleep is bad....
[01:19] <hamitron> o/
[01:53] <ali1234> hmm wait... the mbed actually has an interface chip between the usb and the lpc chip
[01:53] <ali1234> so it's just as fail as the arduino
[02:04] <shauno> seems there's two different usb's on it
[02:05] <ali1234> yeah
[02:05] <ali1234> you can always wire up a second usb port to the real chip
[02:05] <ali1234> it's still annoying and poitnless though
[02:05] <shauno> the mini-usb presents mass-storage via the 'mbed interface'; the one at the pinout is separate
[02:05] <ali1234> yeah
[02:05] <ali1234> that sucks
[02:05] <ali1234> this is what i actually want: http://shop.ngxtechnologies.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=100
[02:07] <shauno> seems most boards are doing the same thing.  sticking the serial programmer on a dedicated usb port because no-one has serial ports anymore
[02:07] <ali1234> right
[02:07] <ali1234> but it's trivial to make a usb secondary bootloader
[02:08] <ali1234> with no extra hardware
[02:08] <ali1234> so you only need to use that serial programming interface once
[02:08] <ali1234> but on boards like the mbed and arduino you're stuck with it forever
[02:08] <ali1234> at least the mbed you can wire up a second plug
[02:09] <ali1234> but that kind of defeats the purpose of buying a board with usb on it
[02:10] <shauno> I have arduino that simply don't have usb on them.  whine solved :)
[02:11] <ali1234> yeah
[02:11] <ali1234> except that i'm not interested in interfacing a PC with anything other than USB
[02:11] <ali1234> cos like you said, no one has serial ports any more
[02:12] <ali1234> and with just a microcontroller all you can really do is blink some leds
[02:12] <ali1234> so the most interesting thing to do with them is make USB devices
[02:12] <ali1234> although this thing *does* have ethernet...
[02:12] <ali1234> which kinds of puts it in a different ballpark really
[02:13] <ali1234> but still i am quite surprised they did not include a USB bootloader in the mark ROM
[02:13] <shauno> sorta.  would love me a bit of wifi
[02:13] <ali1234> wifi is a gigantic pita
[02:13] <ali1234> needs way too much software stack
[02:14] <ali1234> bluetooth is more realistic with uCs
[02:14] <shauno> sure, but what point in having a thumb-sized board that needs to be hardwired
[02:14] <ali1234> hence, bluetooth :)
[02:14] <ali1234> and you can attach a bluetooth module on any serial port
[02:14] <ali1234> so it is very much possible
[02:15] <shauno> then it needs a host on the other side again :/
[02:16] <ali1234> um... you need something else on wifi for it to talk to as well
[02:16] <shauno> yeah, but not 5 meters away
[02:16] <ali1234> bluetooth is essentially adhoc wifi
[02:16] <shauno> my router's here all the time.  my laptop, not so much
[02:17] <ali1234> and bluetooth is up to 100m now
[02:17] <ali1234> unlike wifi it degrades gracefully with range
[02:21] <ali1234> modding a router for bluetooth is also quite easy :)
[02:33] <ali1234> i guess one thing the mbed has going for it, you can wire it up for usb host, and still program it over usb
[07:38] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vix6TMnj9vY&feature=related
[07:38] <AlanBell> will it run android I wonder
[08:20] <Daviey> AlanBell, around?
[08:23] <DJones> Morning all
[08:24] <AlanBell> Daviey: indeed
[08:34] <nigelb> Daviey: got a min?
[08:36] <hoover> good morning
[08:37] <Daviey> AlanBell, Groovy!
[08:37] <Daviey> nigelb, i think so
[08:38] <nigelb> Daviey: hey, you have that bot to report planet uk posts, any chance you can get me the config for the supybot rss plugin for that?
[08:38] <nigelb> Daviey: my attempts failed spectacularly :\
[08:39] <Daviey> nigelb, I could dig around, but you are best asking X3N - it's based on his code.
[08:43] <daubers> Morning
[08:46] <daubers> Next time someone says "Can you do a support call to Australia" remind me to say no
[08:47] <DJones> daubers: Timezone problems?
[08:48] <daubers> DJones: Doing switch config at 11pm hurts my head
[08:48] <daubers> especially when it's a switch I don't know
[08:48] <DJones> Heh, doing anything apart from lieing in bed  hurts my head at that time
[08:49] <czajkowski> Morning
[08:50] <DJones> Morning czajkowski
[08:50] <Daviey> daubers, Yeah.. last cycle I had the same issue with the west coast USA.. I was on the phone to upstream at Friday night, till passed Midnight.. Brain frazzled.. not fun.
[08:52] <daubers> urgh
[08:53] <selinuxium> morning all   o/
[08:53] <selinuxium> Hi Daviey, long time, no chat...You good?
[08:54] <Daviey> selinuxium, Yep!  Not too bad.  Next time i'm in London, we must go for a beer to catch up.  I trust life is good for you?
[08:54] <selinuxium> Daviey, indeed it is. Things are pleasantly well my side of the fence... :)
[08:55] <selinuxium> Daviey, always up for a beverage. :)
[08:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> did someone say beer?
[08:58] <selinuxium> Morning TheOpenSourcerer
[08:58] <hoover> beer?
[08:58] <selinuxium> :)
[08:58] <hoover> Wake up call ;-)
[08:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
[08:58] <hoover> Mornin
[08:58] <Daviey> Who will be going to London for Natty release?
[08:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: I'm in town tomorrow for a lunch with some old mates...
[08:59] <nigelb> Daviey: thanks (sorry, stepped away)
[08:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Around Moorgate in fact.
[09:00] <selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Cool... could pop out for one... :)
[09:00] <selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Still got this display board here too... :)
[09:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> It will probably run into late afternoon.
[09:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed - that was my thinking selinuxium
[09:02] <selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, you got my number?
[09:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> nope selinuxium
[09:03] <czajkowski> ALOHA!!!
[09:04] <AlanBell> Daviey: I will I think
[09:04] <czajkowski> if anyone is looking to poke me on saturday rea venue or tables or trying to find me, give me a shout and I give give you my mobile
[09:04] <czajkowski> Daviey: I will!
[09:05] <Daviey> Groovy!  I think i'll need some beer then.. :)
[09:05] <bigcalm> Morning peoples :)
[09:05] <czajkowski> bigcalm: howdy
[09:18] <selinuxium> morning czajkowski AlanBell bigcalm
[09:20] <kazade> hmm, any eta on when the new podcast can be downloaded? I missed it last night :(
[09:21] <czajkowski> kazade: later today
[09:22] <kazade> \o/
[09:22] <kazade> thx czajkowski
[09:22]  * kazade waits
[09:22] <screen-x> daubers: just linuxjobs post, \o/ minions
[09:27] <daubers> screen-x: I know! Desperate for them now
[09:31] <daubers> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/linuxjobs/2011-March/000581.html if anyones interested
[09:34] <kazade> daubers, can you move about 30 miles East? :)
[09:36] <Tommeh> what the hell.. Half of my search engines in Firefox have disappeared 0_O
[09:36] <Tommeh> Google, Wikipedia
[09:37] <Tommeh> the weird thing is, I've found them all again except Google's
[09:37] <daubers> kazade: Heh, bit too close to the European disty then
[09:37] <Tommeh> It's completely absent in the add-ons
[09:46] <Neoti> well i just posted a comment on my facebook and challenged some friend to use ubuntu 10.10 for 1 week to see how they get on... and i put i would be happy to provide support etc... i wander who will accept ......
[09:47] <JamesTait> sudo aptitude -y install random-greeting && random-greeting
[09:48] <JamesTait> (Don't try that command, I don't know if it will actually install anything!)
[09:53] <DJones> !info random-greeting
[09:53] <DJones> JamesTait: That answers that
[09:54] <JamesTait> DJones: You need the right PPA. ;)
[09:54] <DJones> Heh
[09:59] <daubers> Ahhh, bacon helps the brain switch gear
[10:07] <czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/49zdu4 whooo
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhx9z21lLf1qzozj1.gif
[10:09] <DJones> Who plugged the cat into the mains
[10:09]  * screen-x spent an hour tripping in the world of osmos last night
[10:10] <screen-x> seriously mellow
[10:11] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: ropelight cat is ropey?
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: No idea.. it hurts my eyes :)
[10:13] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: hi
[10:14] <gord> popey, (or anyone else that might know) - do you happen to know what the exec for chrome is called? (not chromium) - chromium is chromium-browser just wondering if chrome takes the same route
[10:14]  * mungojerry notes jcastro's use of \o/ emoticon on his unity article on omgubuntu. popey would approve 
[10:14] <popey> pass, not on an ubuntu box right now
[10:14] <popey> :)
[10:14] <popey> \o/
[10:15] <screen-x> gord: google-chrome
[10:16] <gord> screen-x, you are a star, saved me a few boring minutes of downloading, thanks :)
[10:16]  * czajkowski throws toys at gord 
[10:16] <gord> sweet! toys!
[10:16]  * czajkowski has taffy 
[10:16] <czajkowski> :D
[10:16] <BigRedS> anyone know where phpversion() gets its version string from?
[10:17] <gord> i don't keep desktop toys at my desk, i bought some little magnets once for playing with whilst things built, really hard to get anything done when those are on your desk...
[10:17] <kaushal> hi
[10:17] <screen-x> gord: I make music with an old heatsink and a screwdriver
[10:17] <jpds> BigRedS: PHP_VERSION_ID ?
[10:18] <screen-x> morning kaushal
[10:18] <hoover> Hello kaushal
[10:18]  * gord sends out more contributor agreements for unity - seems like there are more new people every week
[10:21] <BigRedS> jpds: mmm, I was more wanting to append to it, presumably at compile time
[10:22] <Tommeh> In case anyone cared, this fixed my search add-on woe: http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/751010#answer-146360
[10:27] <selinuxium> Thinking of migrating to Narwhal tonight....
[10:28] <screen-x> BigRedS: main/php_version.h looks like a good candidate
[10:28] <selinuxium> Hey BigRedS , How are you doing?
[10:28] <czajkowski> selinuxium: it may not help your frustration
[10:28] <selinuxium> czajkowski, at least it will be focussed... :)
[10:28] <BigRedS> screen-x: oh yeah. I've jsut been getting annoyed at that not being set in the configure options! I always forget I have the source...
[10:28] <selinuxium> And I will be able to shout...
[10:29] <screen-x> BigRedS: that may well be generated by the build system..
[10:30] <mungojerry> selinuxium: by migrating, do you mean your prod system?
[10:30] <selinuxium> mungojerry, God no!
[10:31] <mungojerry> selinuxium: i was gonna say...
[10:31] <selinuxium> mungojerry, my laptop... I can deal with pain on that...
[10:31] <mungojerry> there is pain
[10:31] <Bollinger> is there a command line tool which I can use to report cpu load counter. Something like a mile-o-meter on a car. Not an instantaneous value (via top etc)?
[10:31] <mungojerry> but lots of fun if you like reporting bugs
[10:31]  * screen-x considers mungojerrys philosphical statement
[10:31] <selinuxium> mungojerry, are there still large show stoppers out there?
[10:32] <screen-x> Bollinger: by not instantaneous do you mean graphs?
[10:32] <mungojerry> Bollinger: cpu usage by %, or load average?
[10:33] <mungojerry> selinuxium: showstoppers, probably not, but annoyances without workarounds as  yet , yes :)
[10:33] <screen-x> Bollinger: top/htop will show you cumulative cpu time for each process (time+)
[10:33] <Bollinger> screen-x, I would like something that gives me a number, which I can take a look at once a day to get a delta. If the delta one day is huge I know something is very cpu intensive
[10:34] <popey> you can do that yes
[10:34] <popey> you could use a tool like rrd to put the cpu load into a db periodically then ask it for an average per day
[10:34] <popey> i do that with my house electricity usage
[10:34] <selinuxium> mungojerry, Cheers  :)
[10:35] <mungojerry> Bollinger: even vmstat 60 (substitute for n seconds) would give some useful info
[10:36] <screen-x> Bollinger: sar could also be useful
[10:36] <popey> ooo, both also good suggestions
[10:36] <mungojerry> Bollinger: have you heard of conky?
[10:36] <selinuxium> mungojerry, I like to have a slightly broken system... Ubuntu has been so stable I haven't needed to fix it... Losing my linux foo..
[10:36] <screen-x> !info sysstat
[10:36] <mungojerry> conky lets you put this info onto the desktop background as a little chart and numerical info
[10:37] <mungojerry> including cpu temperature etc
[10:38] <Bollinger> mu
[10:38] <popey> \o/ mu
[10:39] <screen-x> Bollinger: have you stopped beating your wife yet?
[10:39] <mungojerry> Bollinger: e.g. check out pics http://fak3r.com/geek/howto-conky-config-conkyrc-for-debian-part-2/
[10:39] <Bollinger> mungojerry, I cant use a gui app, I am looking for a command line
[10:39] <mungojerry> ah ok :)
[10:39] <Bollinger> screen-x, just installing trying to get working sar
[10:44] <czajkowski> gobmsacked
[10:44] <bigcalm> Has all work stopped on 9.04? I haven't been notified of an update for weeks on my parents' machine
[10:45] <bigcalm> Will attempt to upgrade that machine to 10.10 this weekend when we visit
[10:45] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
[10:45] <AlanBell> in short, yes
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> popey: ouch @ mailing list link
[10:45] <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
[10:45] <czajkowski> bigcalm: it's not an LTS
[10:45] <screen-x> bigcalm: yah 9.04 is EOL
[10:45] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I know that :)
[10:46] <bigcalm> Cheers. I guess it went EOL recently
[10:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That thread is a bag of #fail
[10:46] <AlanBell> yeah, not an LTS, but the dates for non-lts are on the LTS page too
[10:46] <bigcalm> Gotcha
[10:46]  * screen-x wonders why czajkowski is gobsmacked
[10:46]  * kazade really needs to implement "Retweet" in his Twitter client
[10:47] <bigcalm> My bytemark host is still using 8.04 :S
[10:47] <directhex> 9.04 went EOL in october
[10:47] <mungojerry> bigcalm: 8.04 is LTS though innit?
[10:47] <bigcalm> mungojerry: it is
[10:47] <bigcalm> Just didn't realise that I have had the host for so long
[10:47] <czajkowski> screen-x: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05037.html
[10:48] <mungojerry> 10.04 has been my fave release ever
[10:48] <bigcalm> Or bytemark are slow to offer new LTS installs
[10:48] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: hi
[10:48] <kaushal> < MartijnVdS> ipband - daemon for subnet bandwidth monitoring with reporting via email
[10:49] <bigcalm> I still grumble at PHP 5.3 being made the default. Breaks a lot of PHP 5.2 sites. Ah well, progress 'n all that
[10:49] <kaushal> shall i pastebin the ipband.conf ?
[10:51] <bigcalm> Any 'specy 4 eyes' here got any tips on how to stop the bridge of the nose from getting sore?
[10:52] <bigcalm> I've used glasses for 4 years and still haven't figured this one out
[10:52] <screen-x> bigcalm: my wife has recently started poking small bits of plastic into her eyes in the morning.
[10:52] <screen-x> looks painful, but may solve the problem
[10:53] <bigcalm> screen-x: sadly I'm only slightly long sighted, so use specs for computer useage
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: I don't know it. I only apt-cache search'd
[10:53] <screen-x> bigcalm: slightly sounds like a good thing :)
[10:54] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: ok
[10:54] <kaushal> np
[10:54] <bigcalm> screen-x: I guess, but it means that I can't use contacts as I need to take my glasses off when I leave the room
[10:54] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: i dont see anything on the webpage ?
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: I don't know
[10:54] <kaushal> screen-x: hi
[10:54] <kaushal> hoover: hi
[10:54] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta for the 2nd playlist. It was very well received :)
[10:54] <kaushal> since you greeted me
[10:56] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: can i seek help somewhere ?
[10:57] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yup
[10:57]  * czajkowski has an itchy nose 
[10:57] <czajkowski> ever good
[10:58] <czajkowski> *never
[10:58]  * popey puts the pepper away
[10:58] <bigcalm> I get that while eating out sometimes
[10:58] <bigcalm> Still haven't figured out the cause
[10:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: In case you didn't know here is a useful PPA for 10.04 servers https://launchpad.net/~txwikinger/+archive/php5.2 :-)
[10:58] <popey> i get it just after putting on aftershave
[10:59] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: most interesting
[10:59] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, I already have it all pinned in 10.10 :)
[11:06] <AlanBell> admin
[11:07] <AlanBell> oops
[11:07] <popey> :D
[11:07] <AlanBell> this is not openerp
[11:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[11:07] <screen-x> AlanBell: at least you didnt type the next line ;-)
[11:07] <popey> password:
[11:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> 8x0sa0(((nqwojdow09-08lm ***
[11:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh
[11:07] <popey> \o/
[11:07]  * popey hax0r3s the gibson
[11:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> I just made that one up :-)
[11:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> You can use it if you like
[11:07] <popey> that is indeed a two handed mash on the keyboard
[11:08] <popey> i can tell by the pixels
[11:08] <screen-x> wut
[11:08] <screen-x> couscous = pixelated food
[11:08] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:09] <popey> haha
[11:09] <popey> i like that
[11:09] <AlanBell> 8 bit food
[11:10]  * AlanBell ponders
[11:10] <bigcalm> Amusing indeed
[11:11] <bigcalm> Just applied a plaster to the bridge of my nose. Maybe it'll help :) (Yes, I look like a dork)
[11:11] <mungojerry> bigcalm: maybe lighter glasses would help?
[11:11] <mungojerry> ones that don't weigh anything :p
[11:12] <screen-x> frames filled with helium \o/
[11:12] <Pendulum> bigcalm: are you sure they're fit correctly?
[11:12] <bigcalm> Pendulum: they possibly do not :)
[11:12] <mungojerry> remembers the conkywizard application for producing conky setups that look like branded ubuntu :)
[11:13] <mungojerry> even has the canonical dots :)
[11:17] <bigcalm> Going by the release date of StarTrek, I got my last pair of specs in May 2009. I guess it's soon to be time for a new test/glasses
[11:19] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: bug 734077
[11:20] <mungojerry> i wonder if there is any truth in the idea that lots of computer work means you need glasses sooner
[11:21] <mungojerry> popey: i'm concerned by that thread that you tweeted about
[11:21] <bigcalm> mungojerry: I had to get glasses a wee while after getting this office job
[11:21] <bigcalm> mungojerry: they stopped the headaches
[11:21]  * mungojerry has been using computers for 30 years
[11:21] <bigcalm> 10 hours a day without many breaks?
[11:21] <mungojerry> but always insisted on good refresh rates on CRT montiors
[11:22] <bigcalm> People are different :)
[11:22] <mungojerry> bigcalm: working fulltime since 15 yrs ago
[11:22] <mungojerry> yeah, the rest of my family have good eyesight
[11:24] <mungojerry> although i get this googly eye problem a lot now
[11:24] <mungojerry> which is hard to explain
[11:25] <mungojerry> but my eyes suddenly want to defocus and won't focus on things. it usually happens when i don't get enough sleep
[11:25] <mungojerry> but it could be physcological
[11:25] <bigcalm> I was going to say that it sounds like sleep deprivation
[11:26] <bigcalm> Stress can make my eyes twitch :)
[11:26] <DJones> mungojerry: I've been using computers daily since the Vic 20 came out, I only wear glasses for driving/distance
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: google, probabl
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> y
[11:26] <mungojerry> i think screen work could exacerbate an exisiting problem
[11:27] <mungojerry> "After several weeks of trying, last week I finally succeeded in installing Natty to test Unity" - that is the most worrying line i've read from unity interface designer
[11:28] <popey> +1
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> let's revert to gnome-shell ;)
[11:29] <brobostigon> :)
[11:29] <kazade> there are so many things wrong with that email..
[11:30] <kazade> I mean, even if MPT couldn't get it to work, I'm astounded that a.) he hasn't seen the menu hiding thing had been implemented and b.) he wasn't even aware it was specified
[11:30] <directhex> the menu hiding was broken last time i saw it
[11:30] <mungojerry> here's my scale of DE likeability:  100% gnome..................................unity....kde.....lxde......fluxbox........gnome shell........xfce
[11:30] <directhex> i.e. alt-f doesn't open the file menu on one version of unity. it works on another
[11:30] <AlanBell> and that it was specified in a google doc of unknown authorship
[11:30]  * mungojerry has recently seen a worse email at work
[11:31] <mungojerry> alternative options for solutions proposed in the IT strategy were not conisdered due to too little time
[11:32] <BigRedS> mungojerry: I'd always seen XFCE as almost a clone of Gnome? Is it that different now?
[11:32] <kazade> AlanBell, I think Mark made it
[11:32] <BigRedS> admittedly, last time I looked I wasn't much of a gnome user
[11:32] <kazade> the screenshots show his home directory
[11:32] <mungojerry> BigRedS: i view it as a clone that's been hit with the ugly sitck
[11:33] <BigRedS>  Ahhh. That's some ugly stick to end up so far the other side of KDE :)
[11:34] <mungojerry> BigRedS: KDE4.0 would be near the bottom, but KDE4.6 is improving, despite it's similarity to win7
[11:34] <directhex> xfce has turned into a gnome clone fairly recently
[11:34] <directhex> it used to be a CDE clone
[11:34] <mungojerry> or..win7 similarity to KDE
[11:34]  * mungojerry used to like openwindows on solaris :)
[11:34] <BigRedS> I tried a KDE the other month, and couldn't persuade it to behave anywhere near how I wanted it to
[11:35] <screen-x> Where would you look for a Contract Sysadmin? I'm potentially changing jobs and my boss hasked me to look into options for interim coverage.
[11:35] <BigRedS> It was whatever's in Ubuntu 10.10, so I presume a relatively recent KDE4?
[11:35] <directhex> screen-x, how much cash? :p
[11:35] <mungojerry> screen-x: kazade is looking for work :P
[11:35] <screen-x> directhex: ~£200/day 2 days/week.
[11:35] <kazade> I am indeed, but full-time, perm dev work :)
[11:37] <mungojerry> directhex: admittedly i haven't tried it since 4.4
[11:37] <screen-x> my post is within the NHS, so getting a full time replacement will takes ages, as after a person leaves, the department have to justify their necessity before they are replaced.
[11:39] <screen-x> directhex: on a serious note, is that a reasonable value?
[11:40] <directhex> screen-x, no idea, i've not done contract work
[11:40] <screen-x> I haven't either
[11:42] <dwatkins> screen-x: local or remote?
[11:42] <mungojerry> i wouldn't sniff at that if i was looking for work
[11:43] <dwatkins> Contracting used to be a lot more popular, then the government made it less lucrative with the IP35 taxation laws
[11:43] <screen-x> dwatkins: most would be remote
[11:43] <mungojerry> i could take 2 days a week holiday :P
[11:43] <AlanBell> IR35
[11:44] <dwatkins> thanks AlanBell - I was thinking of an SGI systemboard, clearly
[11:44] <screen-x> dwatkins: well, up to the contractor, but being in wales/bridgend, I think most people would choose the remote option.
[11:44] <mungojerry> mind you , i've always been a permie and sometimes worked alongside permie contractors who were earning 5x the amount or more, for the similar job
[11:45] <mungojerry> one guy came with no knowledge and i basically trained him on unix while we was on double my wage
[11:45] <dwatkins> yeah, mungojerry - although contracting has less benefits such as holidays, so supposedly that compensates
[11:45] <AlanBell> screen-x: it doesn't sound a lot to me, however someone might want it just to get round IR35
[11:45] <AlanBell> having more than one customer is a good thing
[11:45] <screen-x> AlanBell: yeah, it wont be a long contract either, hopefully 3months max.
[11:46] <AlanBell> if you are a contractor with one customer and 12 invoices/year you look a lot like a permanent employee to the tax man
[11:46] <screen-x> heh
[11:46] <AlanBell> 2 days/week for someone else for a bit could save a lot of tax!
[11:46] <screen-x> Can anyone recommend any agencies/contract support firms?
[11:47] <AlanBell> try to cut out the blood sucking agencies if possible
[11:47] <screen-x> ok
[11:47] <dwatkins> I've heard good things about parasol, but not used them myself.
[11:49] <mungojerry> arrggh copying a long url into firefox crashed compiz :( when you have 50 windows open, that sucks
[11:55] <Laney> you still keep the windows, no?
[11:55] <popey> hello laney
[11:56] <Laney> greetings
[11:56] <Laney> it's a reet nasty day and i'm supposed to be going down to holme pierrepont to do some canoeing
[11:57] <mungojerry> Laney: yes, but there's a weird behaviour that you can't get focus of the window because of hidden underlapping windows...it's hard to explain
[11:57] <Laney> heh
[11:58] <Laney> you should be able to restart it though
[11:59] <mungojerry> hopefully it's fixed in cimpoz 0.9 apparently it was reritten
[11:59] <AlanBell> Laney: great fun, I have been down holme pierrepont
[12:00] <Laney> mmm
[12:00] <Laney> what in?
[12:00] <AlanBell> kayak
[12:00] <Laney> I have been munched down there many times
[12:00] <AlanBell> there was *lots* of water one time we went
[12:02] <Laney> yeah, sometimes it can wash out
[12:02] <Laney> hope you didn't get the dreaded trent belly
[12:02] <AlanBell> trouble is if you go over and can't roll out you end up very quickly with a long walk back to the top
[12:03] <kazade> does anyone know any good tech (software) companies in London I could apply to?
[12:03] <kazade> (trying to avoid agencies :( )
[12:03] <AlanBell> I can roll out with or without a paddle on flat water, but in white water I am a bit hopeless
[12:03] <Laney> yeah you need good safety to get you out fast
[12:03] <MartijnVdS> kazade: last.fm? :)
[12:03] <Laney> my roll is... improving...
[12:04] <Laney> as in, in white water it works some of the time
[12:04] <kazade> MartijnVdS, perfect
[12:05] <Laney> probably take a big boat today to have an easier time
[12:05] <AlanBell> knowing the size of the lumps of concrete under the water at holme pierepont I didn't really fancy hanging about upside down under the boat for very long
[12:07] <Laney> yeah and it can be pretty shallow in places
[12:10] <AlanBell> it was the lack of an option of swimming to the side dragging the boat that got me, you can do that in a real river, but on the course you have to go the whole way down before you can get out
[12:17]  * daubers ponders the available lunch options
[12:17] <shauno> I never look.  this way I can remain optimistic until the very last minute
[12:21] <screen-x> shauno: reminds me of the fridge in minority report
[12:22] <popey> oooo food, good idea
[12:22] <bigcalm> Mmmm
[12:22] <bigcalm> Weigh-in then food
[12:22] <shauno> yaknow, I've never seen that
[12:23]  * AlanBell heads out to the Cabinet Office
[12:23] <screen-x> shauno: its not good food :(
[12:31]  * mungojerry is looking for holiday cottages
[12:32] <czajkowski> AlanBell: have fun
[12:40] <mungojerry> yay i can now disable httpseverywhere due to the worst offenders now offering full https
[12:45] <bigcalm> Do twitter clients make API calls over a secure connection?
[12:56] <mungojerry> lol funniest twitter comment i've ready in a while https://twitter.com/conscioususer/status/47833949535342593
[12:56] <shauno> bigcalm: I believe the https-only flag is web only
[13:00] <mgdm> it applies to the iPhone app too, evidently
[13:00] <mgdm> I don't know about others
[13:03] <|Dreams|> just tried hooking up my ubuntu 10.10 to my new led phillips 7000 and nothing just says there is no signal connect it to my monitor and bingo works fine, it was previously connected to a 37" lcd why wont it work with y led any ideas?
[13:03] <Myrtti> 1st rule of home appliance/electronics purchases: "Do Not Buy Philips"
[13:04] <|Dreams|> lol
[13:04] <|Dreams|> on a serious note any ideas?
[13:05] <Myrtti> I am dead serious, Philips is on the list of bad-behaving manufacturers because their customer service and warranty repairs are pants.
[13:07] <Myrtti> and they don't act or agree on what the consumer disclaimer council here in Finland says or decides
[13:07] <Myrtti> "Consumer disputes board"
[13:10] <directhex> |Dreams|, connected with what wire?
[13:10] <mungojerry> |Dreams|: what input
[13:10] <mungojerry> what directhex said :P
[13:10] <|Dreams|> hdmi
[13:10] <directhex> |Dreams|, does the monitors control panel on ubuntu see it
[13:10] <directhex> ?
[13:11] <|Dreams|> i cant see anything on the screen just says no signal etc
[13:11] <directhex> |Dreams|, ah, i see. desktop machine, only monitor
[13:11]  * AlanBell likes the new saddle on the bike
[13:12] <|Dreams|> yeah, i was using the pc as a HTPC
[13:12] <|Dreams|> with xbmc
[13:12] <|Dreams|> on my old 37"lcd but swapped over to new led i bought and now no signal
[13:12] <|Dreams|> but i know pc works fine as hooked it up to my 21" monitor in bedroom n works fine
[13:14] <|Dreams|> maybe i should hook it up to the monitor change resolution to something daft like 800 x 600 etc then try on tv again?
[13:16] <directhex> |Dreams|, what resolution will it be trying? do you have fancy modelines in xorg.conf?
[13:16] <|Dreams|> 1280 x ermmmm
[13:17] <|Dreams|> 1280 by something
[13:17] <daubers> |Dreams|: Have you restarted the computer with the HDMI hooked up? My revo doesn't like adding the HDMI when it's already on, doesn't detect it
[13:17] <|Dreams|> yeah
[13:17] <daubers> and on the correct channel with the TV on
[13:17] <daubers> ?
[13:17] <|Dreams|> lol yes
[13:18] <|Dreams|> on my tv i have to add a device so i added the device as a computer on hdmi 1
[13:18] <|Dreams|> click on the new computer device it loads up hdmi 1
[13:18] <|Dreams|> and i get no signal
[13:18] <directhex> |Dreams|, don't you have two outputs on your graphics card? it'd be enormously helpful to see the monitor panel with the hdmi plugged in
[13:18] <directhex> or ssh in and use xrandr?
[13:19] <|Dreams|> its onboard graphics but it has hdmi and vga
[13:20] <|Dreams|> nvidia 7100 card i think i am using hte restricted drivers
[13:20] <directhex> xorg.0.log would probably also be interesting
[13:21] <|Dreams|> i will try again now
[13:22] <|Dreams|> although my new led has a ethernet port, i was thinking would it be eaiser to just set up a media server and stream to it save sorting this problem, but is there a media server that supports 1080p straming or does it have to transcode it first?
[13:24] <directhex> |Dreams|, the server doesn't care about the res.
[13:24] <directhex> |Dreams|, bigger issues are bandwidth and getting a upnp server to speak the exact broken version of the protocol your tv speaks
[13:24] <|Dreams|> i see
[13:25] <directhex> i can stream MKV blu-ray rips to my samsung, but it's not entirely smooth due to networking
[13:25] <|Dreams|> it is a gigabit network, well the tv and pc that will be streaming is gigabit and the router is gigabit so should be ok
[13:25] <directhex> the tv is gigabit?
[13:25] <|Dreams|> think so
[13:26] <|Dreams|> may be wrong one minute will have a look
[13:27] <directhex> sincerely doubt it
[13:35] <daubers> I want a telle with 10GbE on it, so I can play back uncompressed 10bit :)
[13:36] <directhex> daubers, with which type of SFP+?
[13:36] <daubers> Pah, SFP+'s are old school! Just get an XFP to CX4 :p
[13:36] <daubers> Or just plain CX4 on the back
[13:36] <directhex> XFP is dead.
[13:37]  * mungojerry still has an old telly
[13:37] <directhex> i got a new telly for xmas. it's in three dees
[13:37] <mungojerry> my telly's in 3d..if you mean that it's rather deep and only just fits in the alcove
[13:38] <daubers> directhex: digital, dynamic, d............ead pixels?
[13:38] <mungojerry> height/width/depth
[13:38] <daubers> Or, height/width/smell :)
[13:38] <directhex> daubers, i don't think i have any dead pixels. none i've noticed
[13:39] <daubers> My telle is 3d by default as it has an x,y and shows miving images, so moves in time
[13:39] <daubers> I'm waiting till I can afford a new PC with a 3D monitor, just so I can have a whizzy 3D UI
[13:40]  * mungojerry reads the popey /mpt twitter discussion with raised eyebrows
[13:41] <popey> hmm?
[13:42] <mungojerry> popey: i think he needs a new shovel as well as laptop..the digging isn't helping
[13:42] <mungojerry> the problem with working at canonical is that the whole community gets to tell you if you screw up. whereas at my workplace it only affects my company
[13:42] <popey> digging?
[13:42] <mungojerry> popey: well he admitted that he hadn't looked at unity and is trying to dig himself out of a hole by saying that he had problems with his laptop
[13:43] <mungojerry> but didn't seem to try very hard
[13:43]  * popey shrugs
[13:43] <mungojerry> the rest of us install it out of enthusiam...some people should be installing out of necessity
[13:44] <mungojerry> ironically, this is one of the worst PR issues of late,  in my book
[13:45] <popey> nahhh
[13:45] <mungojerry> those conversations should probably have been kept in-house
[13:45] <popey> this is nothing compared to bansheegate or canonignomeappindicatorgate
[13:46] <BigRedS> I almost completely missed both those gates
[13:46] <BigRedS> just sort of heard of them in passign afterwards
[13:46] <mungojerry> well, those were stirred up by trolls on *planet
[13:47] <shauno> is there's a huge difference between pecking on *planet and on a ML?
[13:47] <mungojerry> i don't know the number of eyes
[13:48] <mungojerry> i only read the RSS feeds and let the blogs/planets tell me what's happening
[13:50] <mungojerry> though if the trolling on gnomeplanet continues i'll probably give it a miss
[13:52] <shauno> p.g.o used to be pretty neat.  was about the only place I'd hear about what the fe#@!a camp were up to
[13:53]  * mungojerry used to be a fedora user
[13:53] <popey> i used fedora for an hour
[13:54] <popey> didnt like it
[13:54] <mungojerry> used redhat + fedora from 1999 until 2005
[13:54] <directhex> fedora is dumb
[13:55] <directhex> let me explain how fedora is dumb. if you do a CD install, then the default desktop is not on the first or 1+2 CD. it's spread out. and you even end up re-inserting the same CD more than once
[13:55] <mungojerry> the thing that made me switch to ubuntu was the depdendency problems in compiling a particular package
[13:55] <directhex> this may no longer be true, but it was last time i tried fedora
[13:55] <shauno> and this is why I censor myself ;)
[13:56] <mungojerry> btw does anyone know of the best way i can inventorize my dvd collection using ubuntu and/or android phone
[13:56] <shauno> but last I paid attention, RH were still a fairly major contributor to gnome.  so was nice to hear some news from that camp, at least
[13:57] <mungojerry> was thinking maybe barcode reader + cool software to computerize my colleciton
[13:57] <directhex> RH are institutionally a big gnome contributor
[13:57] <directhex> ultimately, i don't care, i just hack on my little piece of the world
[13:58] <ali1234> wait, what happened now?
[13:59] <popey> keep up ali1234 ! :D
[13:59] <popey> psst: I have no idea
[14:01] <screen-x> that would be an awesome nick
[14:02] <mungojerry> Older tweets are temporarily unavailable - when have they ever been available :(
[14:02] <mungojerry> maybe that feature is only available to pro users :)
[14:09] <mungojerry> i'm getting lazy with my natty test box...rather than type sudo reboot, i'm typing alt-sysrq-b most of the time :S
[14:17] <popey> o_O
[14:18] <ali1234> ok i fgured it out :)
[14:19] <popey> all caught up now ali1234 ?
[14:19] <ali1234> this mpt fellow seems to actually "get it"
[14:19] <popey> yup
[14:22] <czajkowski> shame it takes a bug report and mail to resolve it or bring it to light
[14:22] <czajkowski> when they all sit in the same office wiht one another
[14:22] <mungojerry> ali1234: except for the bit about trying the software ages ago
[14:22] <ali1234> mungojerry: yeah well it's not his fault that they are trying to push unity into the distro when it clearly isn't ready
[14:23] <mungojerry> i'm liking the enhancements that andrea azzarone has done, i'm glad they accepted his resizing launcher patch, and his new patch is good idea too
[14:23] <ali1234> the main problem is that the easiest way to get it is to install +1... does it even work on my nvidia card yet?
[14:23] <ali1234> nouveau project won't even accept bug reports if you have 3d acceleration turned on
[14:24] <kazade> ali1234, although if you have issues just head over to #nouveau and it'll get sorted pretty quickly
[14:24] <ali1234> it will get sorted by them saying "we don't support 3d"
[14:25] <kazade> ali1234, Unity should work on Nouveau now, I know that popey has had it "working"
[14:25] <ali1234> last time i was there it was even written in the topic
[14:25] <ali1234> unity needs 3d acceleration, therefore unity on nouveau is not supported by nouveau upstream
[14:26] <mungojerry> i wonder if unity2d will end up superceding 3d
[14:26] <popey> i have used it with the experimental driver
[14:27] <kazade> still no podcast :(
[14:27] <popey> "still"?
[14:27] <popey> we dont release until tonight
[14:27] <kazade> aww man
[14:28] <kazade> needed something to pass the time at work
[14:28] <popey> download and listen to answer me this podcast
[14:28] <popey> :)
[14:28] <kazade> well, aside from actually working
[14:28] <popey> NSFW
[14:28] <kazade> lol, NSFW?
[14:28] <popey> Not Safe For Work
[14:28] <popey> i.e. wear headphones
[14:28] <popey> they use roood words
[14:28] <mungojerry> =-O
[14:28] <kazade> I know what NSFW is popey..
 needed something to pass the time at work
[14:29] <kazade> :)
[14:29] <popey> I did wonder
[14:29] <ali1234> go on facebook
[14:29] <ali1234> that's what it is for
[14:29] <mungojerry> who's to blame for the rooderies?
[14:30] <popey> its all about blame with you!
[14:30] <shauno> podcasts are a bit odd for nsfw.  I download on my phone, listen on my phone, there's nothing indiscreet
[14:30] <mungojerry> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-wedding/8385415/Kate-Middleton-marries-Prince-Harry-on-souvenir-mug.html
[14:30] <shauno> it's a bit dofferent from watching goat pr0ns.  so nsfw is 'workable with a heads-up' :)
[14:30] <mungojerry> doh!
[14:32] <mungojerry> i found lugradio NSFM
[14:32] <popey> M?
[14:32] <mungojerry> mungojerry
[14:32] <popey> ah
[14:32] <mungojerry> more swearing than billy connolly stepping on a drawing pin
[14:32] <mungojerry> found it difficult to listen to any content
[14:33] <mungojerry> perhaps everyone was a bit drunk
[14:33] <mungojerry> i may just have been unlucky with the episode i tried
[14:35] <shauno> can't say I ever noticed that
[14:36] <shauno> but then I grew up in/around sailors; it'd have to be pretty extreme to be noticable
[14:36] <|Dreams|> any quality lost when usin dvi to hdmi cable?
[14:37] <shauno> shouldn't be, it's digital at both ends
[14:38] <mungojerry> arent' there  rules about the max resolution you can send down one of those cables, to stop bluray copying, or have i go tthe wrong idea?
[14:38] <screen-x> mungojerry: hdcp..
[14:38] <|Dreams|> i was wondering if sound still works through one of these cables as i thogught dvi was video only
[14:39] <shauno> not sure I'd call hdcp a loss in quality.  treating your customers as criminals, maybe ;)
[14:39] <mungojerry> what are the implications of hdcp
[14:39] <screen-x> |Dreams|: you are correct, DVI is video only, you'll need to route sound seperately
[14:39] <|Dreams|> grr
[14:39] <|Dreams|> lol
[14:39] <screen-x> you can get hdmi audio injectors, but they are expensive
[14:40] <shauno> |Dreams|: I don't get audio via mine.  I run dvi->hdmi, then headpone socket to photo jacks
[14:40] <screen-x> *at time of last research ~ages ago
[14:40] <shauno> I think to 'inject' audio into hdmi it'd have to convert it to digital? so it's not going to be a $5 cable
[14:42] <screen-x> shauno: yep
[14:43] <shauno> my laptop has optical out for audio; wonder if they could piggy-back that somehow
[14:44] <screen-x> shauno:
[14:45] <screen-x> http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/apogee-dvi-to-hdmi-converter-spdif-optical-toslink-coaxial-input-output
[14:46] <shauno> I'll take that as a yes :)
[14:46] <shauno> (didn't know the name for optical off-hand; just that if my headphone socket is glowing, the pin's stuck again)
[14:50] <popey> !java
[14:52] <DJones> Interesting looking device http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/15/preview_tablet_asus_eee_pad_slider/ and at a reasonable price, although a netbook could be bought for cheaper
[14:53] <mungojerry> DJones: remember the psion 7 netbook?
[14:54] <DJones> mungojerry: Yes, although I was thinking that there was a sharp device of a similar nature
[14:54] <mungojerry> zaurus
[14:55] <DJones> yes
[14:55] <mungojerry> it looks great (the eee pad slider)
[14:56] <mungojerry> except for the smashability of the screne
[14:57] <DJones> i would think all tablet screens stand the same risk
 yeah, but aren't ipads just used in front of the telly by rich people? this one you might actually use </troll>
[14:58] <DJones> Heh
[14:59] <shauno> sounds like a fair use-case to me.  I find it difficult to sit thru most things on TV without checking up on my phone near-constantly
[15:01] <dogmatic69> anyone unfortunate enough to know svn? trying to find a way to move a repo with checkout and push to a new server
[15:01] <mungojerry> stephen fry probably has one ipad per room
[15:01] <dogmatic69> like git clone <repo> git push <new-repo>
[15:03]  * popey sighs
[15:07] <mungojerry> lol, lots of psion comments in the el reg article
[15:07]  * mungojerry used to have a psion revo 
[15:09] <mchild> Where is the mysql db if I need to move that part of the file system to a new partition?
[15:11] <screen-x> mchild: /var/lib/mysql
[15:11] <mchild> thanks, that's the db i meant
[15:15]  * BigRedS wants a 5mx again
[15:15] <screen-x> BigRedS: I had a series 5, it was awesome :)
[15:15] <mungojerry> didn't they have backlights? the revo lasted for ages but no backligh
[15:16] <mungojerry> i still have a revo but replaced it when android came
[15:16] <screen-x> series 5 had a turquoise backlight
[15:16] <mungojerry> mmmm
[15:17] <mungojerry> and better keyboard
[15:17] <screen-x> Yeah, still havent seen a better keyboard on a mobile device
[15:17] <mungojerry> i used to do my home accounts on spreadsheets on my psion
[15:17] <mungojerry> does android allow google docs editing yet?
[15:17] <screen-x> I wrote programs for maths coursework in opl \o/
[15:18] <mungojerry> the bash shell was cool too
[15:18] <mungojerry> decent company and decent  hardware
[15:18] <mungojerry> backed up by great software
[15:19] <BigRedS> There was an ex-Psion techy threatening to make a successor to the psion a couple of years ago
[15:20] <BigRedS> but I've heard nothing about it since an article I think on the reg
[15:20] <mungojerry> didn't it run win xp?
[15:20] <BigRedS> I thought it was winxp or epoch? Or, at least, somethign non-windowsy as an alternative
[15:20] <BigRedS> I was basically interested in a reasonable keyboard and quick bootup
[15:20] <DJones> mungojerry: http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2010/11/google-speeds-up-google-docs-m.php
[15:21] <mungojerry> BigRedS: http://www.psixpda.com/
[15:22] <mungojerry> DJones: thanks, i hope there's an app too... seems like a lot of clicks to get there. i also seem to remember that you can't edit old docs that you didn't create on android
[15:22] <BigRedS> mungojerry: bah. No non-windows apparently :(
[15:22] <mungojerry> BigRedS: it's also ancient now probably
[15:23] <mungojerry> i think one of the prof's in the dept has one
[15:23] <HazRPG> hi all :)
[15:23] <BigRedS> mungojerry: they mention Ubuntu in passing, so it's probably not so daft hardwarewise.
[15:23] <BigRedS> but must be x86 to do Windows, thinking about it
[15:24] <mungojerry> intel atom
[15:25] <mungojerry> hello HazRPG
[15:25] <directhex> my camera arrived :>
[15:29] <HazRPG> mungojerry: alright squire :)
[15:30] <HazRPG> directhex: \o/
[15:30] <screen-x> what is it directhex?
[15:30] <directhex> screen-x, fujifilm w3
[15:31] <screen-x> directhex: its got threedeees!
[15:31] <directhex> screen-x, yes!
[15:35] <mungojerry> ugh noticing some ugly behaviour in unity
[15:36] <mungojerry> anyone running it wanna try replicate?
[15:37] <mungojerry> nevermind i found a related bug
[15:41] <HazRPG> mungojerry: heh, I'm noticing ugly behaviour in 10.10 but apparently it's a known bug :/
[15:44] <shauno> I didn't notice anything I wouldn't call ugly.  not having 3daccell blows :)
[15:58] <mungojerry> noticed also the long-clicking on applications in the launcher has a new functionality
[15:59] <mungojerry> the downside is that long clicking anything in my launcher makes all the icons shift downwards by about 5 icon heights
[15:59] <shauno> heh, never noticed that before .. nmap localhost drives irssi-proxy nuts
[16:03] <screen-x> +
[16:03] <screen-x> hmm mouse keyboard conflict
[16:04] <shauno> who won?
[16:04] <czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/  nice amount of people using the LD
[16:04] <czajkowski> :D
[16:04] <screen-x> shauno: not sure, but the keyboard got some interaction that wasn't aimed at it.
[16:05] <tervo> so
[16:05] <popey> czajkowski: be nice if that url didnt have a team number in it
[16:05] <tervo> natty alpah3 got released
[16:12] <czajkowski> popey: as in see Ubuntu-~UK ?  instead of the number
[16:13] <shauno> that'd be pretty tidy (/semantic)
[16:13] <popey> czajkowski: yes
[16:13] <czajkowski> ok let me file a bug
[16:13] <screen-x> possibly that number is an event id?
[16:13] <popey> no its the team id
[16:14] <screen-x> but its details of a specific event, and there any other IDs in the url
[16:14] <czajkowski> done
[16:14] <shauno> are you sure?
[16:14] <shauno> eg; http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/652/detail/ is also -uk, but a different event (and id)
[16:15] <popey> hmm
[16:15] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/736208  folsk can ME to
[16:15]  * popey wonders if czajkowski has done her usual one line bug report or whether she's actually put detail on it
[16:16] <czajkowski> :s
[16:16] <dogmatic69> anyone have some recommendations for backups on ec2?
[16:16] <popey> jungledisk
[16:16] <dogmatic69> tx
[16:16] <dogmatic69> does that do a full image thing
[16:16] <dogmatic69> oh wait...
[16:17] <dogmatic69> like an app -> S3
[16:17] <bigcalm> Yes
[16:17]  * czajkowski pokes popey 
[16:17] <popey> hmm?
[16:17] <bigcalm> We use it at work
[16:18] <dogmatic69> https://www.jungledisk.com/ ?
[16:18] <czajkowski> I have a lovely hand drawn butterfly on my desk thanks to popey daughtter
[16:18] <czajkowski> *daughter
[16:18] <bigcalm> Jungle disk basicly maps a bucket within S3 to a drive on your machine. It can also backup selected folders as required
[16:18] <screen-x> dogmatic69: deja dup
[16:19] <dogmatic69> tx screen-x
[16:19] <Myrtti> ho               hum
[16:19] <dogmatic69> is that gonna run on ubuntu server? it says its gnome based
[16:20] <popey> yeah, ignore me
[16:20] <popey> i misunderstood the requirements
[16:20] <bigcalm> Myrtti: you need a smile, have you looked at any kittens recently?
[16:20] <screen-x> dogmatic69: yeah its graphical.
[16:21] <Myrtti> bigcalm: the last kitty I've looked at has been banished because it peed on some shoes even after the snip
[16:22] <Myrtti> I've been awake for good 12 hrs today and have eaten a) breadroll b) travel sickness pill. Also the reason I've been awake from ungodly hours was canceled, as the patient had a fever.
[16:22] <Azelphur> I'm getting that weird minecraft behaviour again, I'm starting to think my ISP is doing some form of throttling during the day
[16:22] <screen-x> dogmatic69: there is a ppa for s3fs, I haven't tested it. https://launchpad.net/~zlj/+archive/test-daily
[16:22] <Azelphur> during the day I can't sign into steam or play minecraft without 20+ seconds lag, but at night it's fine, if I tether to my phone it's also fine :S
[16:22] <dogmatic69> i saw something the other day that could create backups that was even usable as a live disk
[16:22] <Myrtti> I think I'll go eat the fridge. Freons from the '70s feel nommy in my tummy
[16:23] <screen-x> Myrtti: how about some fruit instead?
[16:24] <mungojerry> Azelphur: are you on virgin broadband?
[16:25] <Azelphur> no, I'm on enta.net, they specifically claim no shaping at all which makes this even more weird
[16:25] <screen-x> Azelphur: contention rather than shaping?
[16:25] <mungojerry> are you actually dropping packets too Azelphur
[16:25] <dogmatic69> ah, http://www.geekconnection.org/remastersys/
[16:25] <dogmatic69> anyone used that?
[16:25] <shauno> tried shifting the server onto a more standard port to see if it changes?
[16:26] <Azelphur> mungojerry: not according to htop
[16:26] <Azelphur> I get problems with youtube too, I'm just about to run a fancy test if your youtube is being throttled test
[16:26] <screen-x> Azelphur: htop?
[16:26] <Azelphur> whoooops, I meant mtr
[16:26] <Myrtti> on this historic day, Myrtti finds out she actually does have some fruit she'd eat in her fridge.
[16:26] <Azelphur> dunno why I said htop there :S
[16:26] <Myrtti> wohey
[16:26] <screen-x> Myrtti: \o/
[16:27] <mungojerry> Myrtti: chocolate orange does not count as fruit :)
[16:27] <shauno> that's usually first thing I do when I want to blame my isp.  bump it onto 443 and see if the behaviour changes
[16:27] <Myrtti> I do miss UK quite often, and fruit selection at Tesco is one of those things I especially miss
[16:27] <Azelphur> I'm running some glasnost tests :)
[16:27] <Myrtti> mungojerry: grapes do
[16:27] <DJones> mungojerry: Chocolate Raisons count as fruit though
[16:28] <Myrtti> ♥ galia melon
[16:29] <mungojerry> DJones: i've gone off chocolate raisins a bit since feeding raisins to my 1 yr old son
[16:29] <mungojerry> he converts them into chocolate raisins
[16:31] <JamesTait> mungojerry: LOL
[16:31]  * DJones doesn't want to know that
[16:35] <Myrtti> I've been off raisins since we got a Christmas goodie bag at school on last school day before Christmas which contained one small orange, box of raisins and a chocolate covered wafer bar
[16:36] <diplo> afternoon all
[16:36] <shauno> you get(/got) christmas goodie bags?
[16:36] <Azelphur> Your ISP appears to rate limit your FlashVideo downloads. In our tests, downloads using control flows achieved up to 53 Kbps while downloads using FlashVideo achieved up to 1411 Kbps.
[16:36] <Azelphur> oh dear...
[16:37] <mungojerry> CRC errors on your line?
[16:37] <Myrtti> shauno: yup, this was in the 80's before the economy crashed due to Soviet trade dying
[16:37] <Azelphur> mungojerry: how can I tell?
[16:37] <mungojerry> pile up on the information superhighway Azelphur?
[16:37] <Myrtti> shauno: not sure if they still are given tho
[16:37] <shauno> we got dragged off down the church for some ritual abuse, taken back to school, then told being on school property over the holiday would be trespassing
[16:38] <mungojerry> Azelphur: look at your cable modem http interface
[16:38] <screen-x> information superhighway, such a great term :)
[16:38] <Azelphur> mungojerry: look for what?
[16:38] <Myrtti> shauno: christmas pageant every year with some mandatory ritual abuse
[16:38] <mungojerry> stats page should show any line quality issues
[16:39] <Myrtti> oh dear, I hope I don't get sick
[16:39] <mungojerry> which cable modem do you have Azelphur
[16:39] <Azelphur> mungojerry: I'm not on cable I'm on DSL?
[16:39] <shauno> I'm reliably informed grapes don't make you sick
[16:39] <mungojerry> sorry, your DSL mdem
[16:39] <shauno> (the missus has been telling me for years that eating green things won't kill me)
[16:39] <Azelphur> mungojerry: I think it's a speed touch, but it's inaccessible on the network
[16:39] <mungojerry> can't you visit the IP address in a web browser ?
[16:39] <screen-x> shauno: they have some interesting effects if you tread on them, then put in a bottle and leave for a while
[16:40] <Azelphur> I just have it set up to dial dumb via PPPoE from the router
[16:40] <Azelphur> so I can visit the router, but not the modem because the web panel and all other features are off
[16:40] <shauno> screen-x: to be fair, most foods would fair worse under the same conditions :)
[16:40] <screen-x> shauno: yeah
[16:40] <Azelphur> mungojerry: so basically it's just a dumb modem, not a router ;)
[16:41] <Myrtti> shauno: SO has had the flu this week, I'm not too happy because I can't visit mum if I get sick
[16:41] <shauno> reminds me, I got a nice chunk of time off coming.  I should get some more mead going
[16:41] <Myrtti> although, being sick would be a good excuse of not going... I feel so guilty now
[16:41] <Myrtti> mmmm mead, it is almost may day
[16:41] <mungojerry> Azelphur: not sure i completely understand your setup but maybe enable firewall and plug directly to modem to check all is well..then speak to ISP
[16:41] <mungojerry> maybe ISp can check modem anyway?
[16:42] <Azelphur> yea, that's a nightmare to do in this house :P
[16:42] <Azelphur> everyone has temper tantrums if the internet goes down for more than about 20 seconds
[16:42] <screen-x> Azelphur: sounds like most workplaces
[16:42] <Azelphur> haha
[16:42] <Azelphur> only this is home :P
[16:45] <mungojerry> dress up as an engineer and pretend you are from the phone company
[16:45] <Azelphur> haha
[16:45] <Azelphur> I dunno this glasnost test seems pretty conclusive if I'm understanding what they are saying right
[16:46] <Azelphur> In our tests, downloads using control flows achieved up to 53 Kbps while downloads using FlashVideo achieved up to 1411 Kbps.
[16:47] <Azelphur> I'm running the BitTorrent test now
[16:47] <shauno> have you tried just calling them and asking what's changed?
[16:47] <Azelphur> I'm not the account holder :(
[16:48] <Myrtti> I always manage to persuade the tech help to tell me what's wrong even when I'm not the account holder
[16:48] <Azelphur> haha
[16:48] <Azelphur> even if they do admit to throttling which is unlikely there's still nothing much I can do about it
[16:49] <Azelphur> I'll just gnasnost, VPN and glasnost again and see what my results are
[16:49] <Azelphur> then the results are pretty conclusive :P
[16:49] <shauno> I'd enquire what the options are to make it go away.  if they think they're turning it into an upsell, they'll talk
[16:49] <screen-x> Azelphur: last time I got throttled (for over usage) they reset the counter pretty quick when I requested my MAC
[16:50] <Azelphur> haha
[16:50] <Azelphur> my dad won't switch, we're currently on 60GB/month for 6 heavy users
[16:51] <Azelphur> and every month he goes around fuming at a random person he picked because they must be the person using all the bandwith because it was fine 3 months ago when we only had 2 people in the house.
[16:51]  * Azelphur sighs
[16:51] <directhex> parallax barrier is weird
[16:52] <screen-x> directhex: does it have optilca zoom? presumably it would need motors to go more/less cross eyed as you zoom in/out?
[16:52] <mungojerry> Azelphur: entanet shaping has a lot of google activity
[16:52] <Azelphur> indeed
[16:52] <directhex> screen-x, the zoom is limited (3x) and done more or less in-lens
[16:53] <directhex> screen-x, the distance between the lenses means you can't do 3d pics closer than about 1.5m
[16:53] <screen-x> directhex: are the lenses exactly parallel?
[16:53] <directhex> nafaik
[16:54] <Myrtti> I gave up and got a cheese butty
[16:54] <screen-x> directhex: so there must be a cone point where the 3d effect is optimum
[16:54] <directhex> screen-x, yeah, about 2m away
[16:55]  * screen-x begins to understand
[16:55] <directhex> it supports sony-style 3d, where required
[16:55] <directhex> for 3d macro images
[16:56] <directhex> sony-style meaning "take one picture, move camera by hand a few cm to the right, take second picture"
[16:56] <screen-x> heh
[16:58] <shauno> hey, my camera can do that!
[16:58] <Myrtti> GRRROUR
[16:58] <Myrtti> revenge!
[16:58]  * Myrtti has ordered the house elf who just arrived to cook due to being late
[16:58] <shauno> eek?
[16:59] <screen-x> Myrtti: have you got a spare house elf?
[16:59] <sirgad> Hi. Problem installing Ubuntu to Parallels 4 on OS X 10.6.6.  Boots from Ubuntu iso with error message "(initramfs) unable to find a medium containing a live file system".  ISO passes MD5 checksum.  Any ideas?
[16:59] <Myrtti> screen-x: yeah, it flies from UK once in a while to visit
[16:59] <bigcalm> People have had to make do: how easy is it to transition from a GB to US keyboard layout?
[17:00] <shauno> you get used to it
[17:00] <bigcalm> I don't know how well though. My laptop will still be a GB layout
[17:01] <shauno> I find it much easier if the keyboards are physically different.  it just becomes part of the difference typing on them
[17:01] <shauno> eg, I have 'chicklet' keys at home and typewriter keys at work.  so there's a mental jump between the two, and @ being on the wrong GRRRing button gets swept into that mental jump
[17:02] <screen-x> sirgad: can you choose the type of cd drive that parallels is emulating? if so try a different type
[17:02] <sirgad> thanks screen-x, i'll look into it now.
[17:02] <shauno> sirgad: I'd also check OSX hasn't mounted the iso (as it's apt to do if you just downloaded it in safari)
[17:03] <sirgad> that's not an issue here, i disable that in Safari, but thanks.
[17:03] <shauno> (I believe it's crazy enough to mount them read/write, which would stop parallels getting a lock on it)
[17:04] <Azelphur> yup, my ISP is throttling
[17:04] <Azelphur> pretty conclusive test
[17:04] <Azelphur> minecraft with ssh tunnel = perfect
[17:04] <Azelphur> minecraft without ssh tunnel = 20+ seconds lag
[17:04] <sirgad> screen-x: it's currently set to IDE optical drive emulation. Shall I try SCSI? no SATA.
[17:05] <screen-x> sirgad: try all the options..
[17:08] <screen-x> Any tips for phone interview tomorrow?
[17:09] <sirgad> screen-x: Parallels doesn't seem to allow booting from a SCSI virtual optical drive :/
[17:09] <Azelphur> yea, pretty safe to assume that enta.net are liars now imo
[17:09] <sirgad> Trying now with a re-assigned … ah, no, it's failing with the same error.
[17:09] <shauno> screen-x: eat, decaff, chill :)
[17:09] <screen-x> sirgad: :( I'm afraid I don't have any more suggestions as I havent used parallels.
[17:09] <screen-x> shauno: :)
[17:09] <mungojerry> Azelphur: i'm surprised entanet said they weren't throttling, did they tell u that?
[17:09] <Azelphur> they say they don't shape, but I can't access WoW, Steam or Minecraft during the day and glasnost tests says they are throttling
[17:10] <Azelphur> *sigh*
[17:10] <shauno> I'll be able to poke at parallels when I get home in a couple of hours
[17:10] <sirgad> you reckon it's a parallels issue then, not ubuntu? fair enough, i'll pursue this on their forums. Ta.
[17:10] <Azelphur> mungojerry: yup when I signed up it had big signs saying NO SHAPING
[17:10] <mungojerry> lol
[17:10] <Azelphur> in capitol letters :(
[17:10] <mungojerry> the items i'm reading about are from 2009
[17:10] <ali1234> capital
[17:10] <screen-x> Azelphur: screenshot or it didnt happen (way back machine may help here..)
[17:10] <Azelphur> lol that was a good 4 years ago
[17:11] <shauno> that's not too way back for waaayback :)
[17:11] <mungojerry> http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews130895.html: Started out at 1.5MBs (that's very good for this area), and gradually  decreased to 12KBs over the period of one month. No line fault - it was  Entanet throttling the connection.
[17:11] <ali1234> they have 24/7 UK support right? so just keep ringing them and complaining
[17:12] <Azelphur> haha
[17:12] <shauno> oh good lord.  web.archive.org is on our new nannyfilter too.  nerdrage!
[17:13] <mungojerry> Azelphur: t&cs have no mention of NOT throttling..
[17:13] <ali1234> you can contact their tech support on voip for free apparently
[17:14] <Azelphur> mungojerry: it's just more ammo for me trying to get us switched off this ridiculous ISP :p
[17:14] <ali1234> besides "no throttling" would pretty much cause the problem you are seeing, not fix it
[17:14] <Azelphur> the speeds are crap, the bandwith allowance is crap, and they throttle, and they have a FUP
[17:14] <mungojerry> If Entanet determines that excessive bandwidth or disk space utilisation  is adversely affecting Entanet's ability to provide service, Entanet  may take immediate action. Entanet will attempt to notify the account  owner by e-mail as soon as possible.
[17:14] <ali1234> also it was "no shaping" not "no throttling" right?
[17:14] <Azelphur> and my dad refuses to switch in case the ISP we switch to has any of the above :D
[17:14] <Azelphur> ali1234: think it might have been no throttling actually
[17:15]  * daubers drinks moar coffee
[17:15] <ali1234> so just hammer it until they kick you off, problem solved
[17:15] <mungojerry> find out the big bandwidth user in your house
[17:15] <Azelphur> I get very tempted to, but when we get close to the limit my dad sends my mum up to tell me that if I don't stop they'll cut my electricity off \o/
[17:16] <mungojerry> Azelphur: so it's YOU then..:P
[17:16] <Azelphur> mungojerry: haha, it's actually nobody, I got per-user running on the router and found that everyone was using more than 3x of their fair share
[17:16] <mungojerry> nobody=everybody
[17:17] <Azelphur> showed it to my mum, next week they wrote a letter to the lodger telling him if he didn't use less internet they was going to cut him off :D
[17:17] <ali1234> i think you and the lodger should write a letter back saying "do it"
[17:17] <mungojerry> sounds like your mum should work for entanet
[17:17] <ali1234> then get your own internet
[17:17] <Azelphur> ali1234: that's what I've been trying to do :D
[17:17] <ali1234> and when they ask you to fix their computers next time, charge then £50/hour
[17:17] <mungojerry> get friendly with the neighbour
[17:17] <mungojerry> or, find a really good ISP deal
[17:17] <mungojerry> dads never refuse a bargain
[17:18] <mungojerry> i'm a dad too
[17:18] <Azelphur> ali1234: the other day my mum even had the cheek to say she was going to steal _MY_ router, lock me out of it, and not allow me to have any internet
[17:18] <Azelphur> I just told her if she did that I'd DoS the house and make all the bandwith go in a day :)
[17:18] <ali1234> Azelphur: ok your mum is nuts, time to move out
[17:18] <shauno> protip.  3g dongle.
[17:18] <Azelphur> yup, working on the moving out thing :D
[17:18] <shauno> being grounded will never be the same again
[17:18] <Azelphur> haha
[17:18] <Azelphur> I'm actually 20 and pay rent ironically, I really do need to move out :p
[17:19] <mungojerry> i struggle to use more than a few gig a month
[17:19] <shauno> I used to have that situation with me ma.  grounded .. he sits in his room 'n plays with his computers.  not grounded .. he sits in his room and plays with his computers.  remove the computers?  you'll have to get past the rabid nerd!
[17:19] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[17:20] <Azelphur> mungojerry: that's pretty much what we're using, 60GB isn't a lot to go between 5 people
[17:20] <mungojerry> it's more than browsing though
[17:20] <directhex> 60GB is nothing. i can use that in a day
[17:20] <mungojerry> maybe you should perform your own shaping on bittorrent traffic
[17:21] <directhex> legally.
[17:21] <Azelphur> indeed, I could too
[17:21] <ali1234> directhex: how?
[17:21] <Azelphur> mungojerry: I don't torrent at all unless it's off peak (offpeak is unmetered)
[17:21] <mungojerry> yeah, i just mirrored the scientificlinux v6 mirror 22Gb...arrived in 15mins
[17:21] <directhex> let's give a concrete example. install Grand Theft Auto 4 from Stream, that's 12gb
[17:21] <Azelphur> the majority of the bandwith goes on games, video streaming
[17:21] <directhex> then the expansions, that's an extra 12GB
[17:21] <Azelphur> directhex: haha :D
[17:21] <ali1234> oh, steam
[17:22] <Azelphur> directhex: or "play wow"
[17:22] <directhex> now, install the MMO of your choice
[17:22] <directhex> ah, see?
[17:22] <Azelphur> yup
[17:22] <ali1234> is there any way you can use it legally without buying stuff?
[17:22] <shauno> wow's client was a good 10Gb worth last I looked
[17:22] <shauno> with their new 'streaming client' so the whole whack is delivered via bittorrent, it's a fun way to find out your isp don't like you
[17:23]  * mungojerry is thinking his ISP should send him a bonus as he's a low data user
[17:23] <Azelphur> WoW + Expansions comes to 23.7GB to me
[17:23] <directhex> Azelphur, on disk, or installer downloads?
[17:23] <ali1234> gta4 might be 24GB but it also costs £24
[17:23] <Azelphur> directhex: on disk
[17:23] <directhex> ali1234, i already bought it at xmas
[17:24] <directhex> Azelphur, i guess about 10gb of download, then. LOTRO is 10gb.
[17:24] <ali1234> if you can afford to spend £60/day on PC games you can afford a better internet package too
[17:24] <popey> what he said
[17:24] <directhex> i think age of conan is bigger than that
[17:24] <directhex> ali1234, you know you can re-download games you buy, right? my steam account has games in it i bought in 2006
[17:24] <shauno> you buy a game once tho.
[17:24] <shauno> 24 quid at christmas vs 60*12 ..
[17:24] <ali1234> so you redownload GTA4 twice every day just to annoy your ISP?
[17:25] <shauno> I blow my steam folder away whenever my disk space looks sketchy
[17:25] <Azelphur> ali1234: no, but if you buy one game a month and you play the existing ones and download the huge 1GB patches that come out and expansions and...
[17:25] <shauno> simply because I know it's a decent chunk of disk that'll come back when I ask for it
[17:25] <Azelphur> it all adds up very quickly
[17:26] <ali1234> right
[17:26] <ali1234> i am not disputing that
[17:26] <directhex> ali1234, not every day. but easily once in a single day.
[17:26] <ali1234> i am disputing that a reasonable person can legitimately use 60GB of bandwidth a day without spending £60 a day buying online content
[17:26] <ali1234> sure, anyone can do it once :)
[17:26] <shauno> no-one said daily :)
[17:27] <ali1234> doing it once doesn't matter
[17:27] <ali1234> nothing bad going to happen to you
[17:27] <ali1234> at worst you'll be throttled for the rest of the month. big deal
[17:27] <mungojerry> reminded of a line in spooks that he saw last night: "what's going to happen to me?" "bad things"
[17:27] <ali1234> since you'll have already downloaded enough to keep you entertained for at least that long
[17:28] <shauno> surprised no-one's added 'seed an ubuntu release' to that.  I left that running longer than I intended on my vps once :/
[17:28] <ali1234> i seed the ubuntu CDs on ADSL
[17:28] <ali1234> i see about 5 GB of uploads in the first month, and then it tails off
[17:28] <mungojerry> supposed to be off for drinks @ liv st now
[17:28] <directhex> i'm looking at bt infinity... 7.5mbit upstream predicted
[17:28] <Daviey> 'predicted'
[17:29] <directhex> Daviey, based on line length, versus maximum
[17:29] <shauno> I'd hazard a guess that seeding on 100mbit up vs residential up is a rather significant difference
[17:29] <Daviey> most likely with a fair usage cap of 0.1mbit 95th percentile
[17:30] <directhex> Daviey, the 300gb fair usage cap was axed a fortnight ago
[17:30] <ali1234> if there was a internet package with guaranteed 0.1mbit up/down i would get it
[17:30] <ali1234> if it was same price as regular broadband that is
[17:31] <directhex> ...dual bonded isdn?
[17:31] <ali1234> ... is not the same price as regular broadband
[17:31] <Daviey> ali1234, create a local mirror of the ubuntu archive, then debian archive... that eats bandwidth... :)
[17:32] <ali1234> it does not use 60GB per day every day
[17:32] <Daviey> I did find that disk writes were too slow, so i started using /dev/null... writes were REALLY fast!
[17:32] <shauno> that's just silly.  you can cache apt without needing the whole debian pool local
[17:32] <Daviey> shauno, and doing package inspection?
[17:33] <shauno> debian's the closest thing linux has to netbsd.  if you just mirror the whole lot, you're going to have a good number of arch you'll never look at
[17:37] <shauno> seems pool is up to 500Gb now.  personally, yes I would have second thoughts about pulling that locally without a very fine reason
[17:39] <bigcalm> Just noticed that my bytemark host is running 9.04. What are the chances of distupgrade killing the vm?
[17:40] <shauno> are they using a stock kernel?
[17:40] <bigcalm> 2.6.32.23-kvm-i386-20100923
[17:41] <shauno> that looks like it's one of theirs; I'd ask them before trying :)
[17:45] <shauno> (I tend to assume if stock worked, the next stock would work too; and if stock worked, they wouldn't go to the effort of custom.  so assume there's a reason there's a custom kernel)
[17:59] <BigRedS> bigcalm: none of mine (debian) ever broke
[17:59] <BigRedS> they don't upgrade the box for you, but they put their kernels in their mirrors
[18:00] <BigRedS> IIRC apt comes preconfigured to not break your kernel by downloading stock ones
[18:02] <bigcalm> Cool
[18:02] <bigcalm> Ta for the info
[18:04] <bigcalm> https://forum.bytemark.co.uk/comments.php?DiscussionID=1896
[18:04]  * bigcalm hopes that it stays true for later releases
[18:08] <shauno> stackexchange is rather annoying when you put a lot of work into an answer, and it goes completely unnoticed.  bleh.
[18:11] <bigcalm> I think I've just locked myself out of my admin serial console
[18:11]  * bigcalm grumbles and does something else
[18:12] <Myrtti> wohey, my house elf and I have tom yum gai cooking again
[18:14] <Myrtti> although I wish it were done already
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> Yao guai cooking?
[18:23] <morleypotter> Hi Guys, any tips on the best seamless virtualization package, I've just tried vmware player and very impressed but i'm having window issues so i'm on the hunt for something else.
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> \o everyone
[19:10] <brobostigon> noswaith dda MartijnVdS
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> happy Welsh to you too ;)
[19:10] <popey> hah
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> ooh, Bob Ross on TV
[19:17] <Taurus_> Hello
[19:17] <brobostigon> noswaith dda Taurus_
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> What's everyone doing tonight?
[19:20] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: trying to playwith wayland on natty, and you?
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> Watching some TV
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> recovering from my run :)
[19:21] <brobostigon> :)
[19:22] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: andfailing, as icant see a wayto run it standalone. andnot with inside a silly window.
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: maybe in a vm? maybe it's not "done enough" yet?
[19:23] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: maybe, but i might try and install it ontop of my cli natty, as its onlychoice is to run on its own.
[19:25] <popey> blimey
[19:25] <popey> wayland
[19:25] <popey> why not just y'know, run natty and file bugs and stuff
[19:26] <ali1234> popey: i see a question from askubuntu on the front page of stackexchange.com so i guess it really is just like the other subdomains, but reskinned
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> popey: you mean natty has bugs?!?!
[19:26] <popey> just found another
[19:26] <popey> what determines the window placement on the screen?
[19:26] <popey> compiz?
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> popey: I think so
[19:26]  * popey files a compiz bug
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> hinted by the app
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> but wm decides
[19:27] <popey> also
[19:27] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/popeydc#p/a/u/0/6dlnt0uqGBo
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> hasn't twinview always been horrible?
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> re: placement
[19:28] <ali1234> historically yes
[19:28] <ali1234> it's not so bad these days
[19:29] <ali1234> except for fullscreen flash ofc
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> popey: that's an Nvidia driver bug, or a config fail, I think
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> it would be if you were using xrandr -- you can configure gaps between screens using xrandr
[19:30] <ali1234> that's misconfiguration :)
[19:30] <brobostigon> popey: iwas just being curious, justwanted to see.
[19:31] <ali1234> popey: show your xorg.conf or a screenshot of whatever tool you used to configure monitors :)
[19:31] <ali1234> ah i see your xorg.conf
[19:31] <ali1234> but it does not show the screen res of each monitor
[19:32] <ali1234> well my suspicion is that CRT-0 isnt actually running at 1680xwhatever
[19:33] <ali1234> so i would do a screenshot of the full desktop and measure the number of pixels on each display
[19:33] <ali1234> also have a window over the two displays when you take the screenshot :)
[19:34] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Screenshot-3.png
[19:35] <popey> in that screenshot I can't see the first two window buttons
[19:35] <ali1234> aaaaah
[19:35] <popey> i cant see the w of wopr
[19:35] <ali1234> 3360 = 1680x2
[19:35] <ali1234> but your rightmost monitor is running at some other resolution
[19:35] <popey> onemo
[19:36] <ali1234> possibly because of this: ModeLine     "1280x720R" 63.75 1280 1328 1360 1440 720 723 728 741 +hsync -vsync
[19:36] <popey> i have changed res with the nvidia thing
[19:36] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Screenshot-4.png
[19:36] <ali1234> click on the CRT-1 and screenshot again please :)
[19:37] <popey> 5
[19:37] <ali1234> also does your monitor have a menu where it can show the current screen mode? check that...
[19:37] <popey> they are both in auto mode
[19:38] <popey> ah fixed
[19:38] <ali1234> is should still be able to tell you the screen mode in use
[19:38] <popey> re-did auto on screen 2
[19:38] <popey> ta :)
[19:38] <ali1234> ah the thing that shifts the picture around?
[19:38] <popey> must have been ever so slightly stretched
[19:38] <popey> yes
[19:38] <ali1234> yeah that would do it too :)
[19:38] <popey> wiggled a bit and now its fine
[19:38] <popey> :)
[19:38] <popey> thanks, feel silly now, sure I tried that
[19:38] <ali1234> yeah that can happen when they update the driver and it changes the refresh rates slightly
[19:39] <popey> you are too kind
[19:39] <brobostigon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5ybkhb7sI&feature=player_embedded deadfunny.
[19:41] <popey> oh dear
[19:41] <brobostigon> yeah,
[19:46] <shauno> I gotta say popey's video was funny.  while he's not quite sure if describing the gap (in the picture) while staring at the (physical) gap makes sense
[19:46] <popey> i have another i need to make
[19:47]  * popey makes said video
[19:51]  * popey files bug 736363
[19:51] <popey> nice number
[20:17] <kirrus> BigRedS: ping
[20:28] <shauno> can't decide whether this level of boredom calls for TV or bed.  either's a bit extreme at 8pm
[20:32] <directhex> play games until 2am.
[20:32] <directhex> like a boss
[20:33] <shauno> work at 6 :(
[20:33] <shauno> (soaking up the bank holiday pay.  my paddy's day is 12hr shift + 12hr oncall)
[20:34] <brobostigon> would it be possible to do multi-monitor, with two graphics cards, of totally different kinds and makes?
[20:34] <directhex> brobostigon, yes, but it's a pain to configure
[20:35] <directhex> and you won't get 3d if you're mixing Free, fglrx and nvidia-glx drivers, as they all use their own libGL.so
[20:35] <brobostigon> directhex: elaborate please.
[20:35] <brobostigon> directhex: so iwould have to stick with the samedriver type?
[20:36] <directhex> brobostigon, for 3d, yes
[20:36]  * TheOpenSourcerer is ready to stop staring at computer screens for a while... Had a good day though. A customer's customer's new website went live, have migrated a new customer's CRM to our managed hosted platform and worked on a couple of new projects and chased several new leads. Phew. 
[20:37] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, today i discovered redmine, and how superior it is to trac
[20:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - was redmine the ruby one?
[20:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> A PITA to install IIRC but a good UX
[20:38] <brobostigon> directhex: do two nvidia,etc?
[20:38] <brobostigon> so*
[20:38] <directhex> brobostigon, yeah, that's fine
[20:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think directhex we got a lead for your company (collabara?) from OpenERP the other day.
[20:38] <brobostigon> directhex: would only nvidia work? or others aswell?
[20:39] <directhex> brobostigon, well, anything as long as you aren't mixing fglrx, nvidia-glx, and open-source drivers
[20:39] <brobostigon> directhex: ithinki understand, thank you, :)
[20:58] <bigcalm> After your package information was updated the essential package
[20:58] <bigcalm> 'ubuntu-minimal' can not be found anymore.
[20:58] <bigcalm> :'(
[21:04] <bicyclerepairman> ey up. I come from gentoo.
[21:05] <bicyclerepairman> I wanted to compile something just now but the header files weren't there
[21:05] <bicyclerepairman> is that normal under ubuntu?
[21:05] <ali1234> yes
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> bicyclerepairman: yes. Usually, you install software from packages
[21:05] <bicyclerepairman> where should I get those header files from?
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> and if you really really need to compile something, you need to install the development bits (headers, etc.) separately
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> check out the libfoo-dev packages
[21:06] <MartijnVdS> but usually you don't want to compile stuff
[21:06] <MartijnVdS> unless it's your own software :)
[21:06] <ali1234> or if you need to fix bugs
[21:06] <bicyclerepairman> well I'm trying some examples out from a curses tutorial :-)
[21:06] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: or that
[21:08] <ali1234> why curses anyway?
[21:20] <directhex> bicyclerepairman, something like libncurses-dev
[21:20] <directhex> libncursesw5-dev
[21:21] <bicyclerepairman> ah thanks a lot :-)
[21:22] <bicyclerepairman> ali1234, just learning :-)
[21:34] <bigcalm> The list of proposed changes is:
[21:34] <bigcalm> Changing shell of www-data from /bin/bash to /bin/sh
[21:34] <bigcalm> Is there any advantage to www-data using sh instead of bash?
[21:36] <ali1234> it brings it in line with all the other system users
[21:37] <bigcalm> It's annoying if I do sudo su - www-data
[21:37] <ali1234> don't do it then
[21:38] <bigcalm> Heh
[21:39] <directhex> www-data should use /bin/false :p
[21:40] <bigcalm> It should, aye
[21:43] <bigcalm> Upgrading from 9.10 to 10.04 on my bytemark host, have this diff: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/581318/
[21:43] <bigcalm> I have no idea what it does so don't know if it's specific to the Bytemark VM setup or not. Any hints?
[22:13] <popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/16/s04e02-stranger-in-a-strange-land/
[22:17] <zleap> i am just grabbing it now, i just remembered  thanks though
[22:20] <czajkowski> LOL
[22:51] <bigcalm> Finally got my bytemark vm up to 10.04. I can go to sleep now
[22:51] <screen-x> bigcalm: sleep well :)
[22:51] <hamitron> :)
[22:52]  * screen-x is downloading debian lenny, will install it in a vm, then test how well the upgrade to squeeze works. 
[23:08] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E02  Stranger in a Strange Land - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/16/s04e02-stranger-in-a-strange-land/
[23:28] <shauno> ooh, that's a bit ouch.  surely if you have to explain who rms is, you've already answered the question
[23:30] <hamitron> ah ffs
[23:30] <shauno> oops?
[23:30] <hamitron> 2 days since I fixed my sisters laptop, and it already has bad messages popping up
[23:32] <popey> :) shauno
[23:33] <shauno> sorry, missed the other night because I have absolutely no concept of time
[23:33] <shauno> so there's a mild delay factored in there :)
[23:34] <shauno> I did that on tuesday too.  was meaning to head out to something at the local hackerspace at 7pm.  started getting ready about midnight, and then figured out it was dark
[23:37] <hamitron> appears to be communicating a lot with a comp in Beijing
[23:37] <hamitron> :/
[23:38] <directhex> haxed.
[23:38] <directhex> i say burn it
[23:38] <shauno> I've always figured rms has to take everything to extremes; someone has to.  it's very easy to define the completely closed end of the spectrum; we need someone at the other end of the spectrum to define everything in between
[23:38] <hamitron> I've unplugged her cable
[23:38] <hamitron> ;)
[23:38] <shauno> it's not going to be tasty - extremists never are
[23:40] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:40] <hamitron> cya bro
[23:40] <brobostigon> good night hamitron
[23:40] <hamitron> I think I am in the mood for messing with the stupid nip
[23:42] <hamitron> well, not technically one I suppose
[23:42] <hamitron> but similar ;/
[23:50] <shauno> and a good chance they're not even chinese, but using it as a convenient 'bounce' thru which it's difficult to get any information at all
[23:50] <shauno> apparently most the major groups doing this are russian
[23:51] <directhex> 33% of chinese run IE6. no wonder thay have so many zombie pcs
[23:52] <shauno> most the time it's just a convenient screen to hide behind, because US laws result in absolutely nothing there
[23:53] <hamitron> well still gonna take my frustration out on someone
[23:53] <hamitron> ;/
[23:54] <hamitron> although feeling better now I got cake and coffee
[23:54] <hamitron> :)
[23:54] <shauno> heh, sorted
[23:55] <shauno> so, I guess the dirty question is: are you going to give her windows again and expect the same thing not to happen again?
[23:56] <hamitron> gonna give her winblows again and turn to religion, hopefully increasing the chances it won't happen
[23:56] <shauno> oh well
[23:57] <shauno> oft quoted; Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
[23:57] <hamitron> she has some interactive online things for college that requires IE
[23:57] <shauno> :/
[23:58] <hamitron> she finishes this year, so will see then
[23:58] <shauno> kinda glad we still did everything with stacks of paper at college
[23:58] <hamitron> yeh
[23:58] <hamitron> I would make students use paper
[23:58] <hamitron> :)
[23:58] <shauno> lol, not a 'get of my lawn thing'
[23:59] <shauno> just at the time I was using RH5 for everything but tpascal.
[23:59] <hamitron> I'd make them hand write coursework, purely to make them check spelling and grammer manually
[23:59] <shauno> the more they try to shift it online, the more they seem to get wrong
[23:59] <hamitron> yeh :/