[02:11] <tensorpudding> i find it hard to classify this really annoying bug that's afflicting me
[02:11] <tensorpudding> essentially the mouse doesn't work doing certain things
[02:12] <tensorpudding> actually, it's more that there's a region of the screen where the mouse doesn't work
[02:13] <tensorpudding> roughly the top-left quarter of the screen
[02:14] <tensorpudding> i can move the mouse there, but hover/click/scroll events don't work
[02:17] <tensorpudding> opening and closing the unity menu repeatedly seems to fix it
[02:32] <starlock> is natty considered stable enough for every day use?
[02:33] <rww> nope
[02:41] <tensorpudding> i'm using it today, and it's fine if you ignore the really bad bugs
[02:49] <kothaguy_ubuntu> hi friends,i have ubuntu 10.10 image in my hdd,i want to download the natty alpha3 with zsync,i heard that by using an image which is already in our system,it will take less time to download the new iso,is it correct,can anyone tell me how to do that
[02:53] <trism> kothaguy_ubuntu: zsync -i path/to/old.iso http://url/to/file.iso.zsync; you can use as many -i input files as you like, although you probably won't have much more than 15-20% complete if you go from 10.10 to alpha 3
[02:57] <kothaguy_ubuntu> trism: i have a netbook image of ubuntu 10.10 in my system,i want to download the desktop version of nattys alpha 3,i had my 10.10 image in the download folder,can you tell me the command to do this,as i am new to ubuntu,i didnt know much about this,help needed
[02:59] <trism> kothaguy_ubuntu: the i386 version? I don't know what your netbook iso is called, but it would be: zsync -i netbook.iso http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/natty/alpha-3/natty-desktop-i386.iso.zsync; replacing netbook.iso with the name of that iso on your hd. although I sometimes have trouble with the cdimage server and zsync, might need to find the .zsync file on a mirror
[03:01] <kothaguy_ubuntu> trism,yes it is i386 version of 10.10,i will try it,thanks for the help
[03:08] <kothaguy_ubuntu> trism, :where will be the new natty will be downloaded,it will replace the 10.10 iso or a new file with 11.04 will be there
[03:08] <GaryD> anyone running natty with nvidia-173?
[03:08] <trism> kothaguy_ubuntu: a new file will be added, unless there is already a file there with the same name, in that case, both files will still be there, but the old one will be renamed
[03:09] <trism> kothaguy_ubuntu: it will be in whatever directory you ran the zsync command from
[03:11] <kothaguy_ubuntu> trism, :thank you,another question,what happens when i download a file with zsync without using -i and .zsync ,what is the difference while using them
[03:12] <trism> kothaguy_ubuntu: I'm not sure you could do it without the .zsync file, but if you have no input files, it would be just like downloading the file normally, except you would need to download more, because you need the .zsync file too, so better just to use wget on the iso, or a torrent
[03:18] <kothaguy_ubuntu> trism, :Thanks a lot,it is downloading,it is now 17.7 %,i think after 100 % i will get natty alpha3
[05:53] <Dwood> I'm having a sound issue, can anyone help?
[05:53] <Dwood> Upon starting Ubuntu every time, the sound manager uses the previously set volume level as the MAX volume level
[05:53] <bazhang> Dwood, in 11.04 ?
[05:55] <Dwood> uh
[05:55] <Dwood> I need to check tbh.
[05:55] <Dwood> It's not  the latest vetrsion, but the one before tha
[05:55] <Dwood> So probably 11.04
[05:56] <bazhang> lsb_release -a in terminal , please
[05:56] <Dwood> ty
[05:56] <Dwood> was trying uname but that wasnt giving me the info i needed
[05:57] <Dwood> 10.04
[05:57] <rww> try #ubuntu, then :)
[05:57] <Dwood> They're no helpo
[05:57] <bazhang> this is 11.04 only
[05:57] <rww> #ubuntu+1 is for unreleased development versions, so we won't be either.
[05:57] <Dwood> :/
[05:58] <Dwood> I think you can help me either way, I don't believe things change that much between versions...
[05:58] <Dwood> or do they? lol
[05:58] <bazhang> you're crossposting here, and this is 11.04 only
[05:58] <Dwood> Yeah ok
[06:05] <RPG-Master> Transmission continues to hang after doing anything with it. So far that has included adding torrents, pausing, resuming, and just selecting "show transmission" after closing out of it. Anyone else having this issue?
[06:28] <dimmortal> lol.. I imagine dwood's sound getting quieter and quieter... eventually muted
[06:34] <RPG-Master> ...no one?
[06:35] <RPG-Master> I'd ask #ubuntu but they'd probably frown at me and point me to here. :/
[06:36] <rww> and throw factoids about crossposting at you. i am deadly with them.
[07:05] <HyperHoRse> hi
[07:06] <HyperHoRse> why doesn't unity support graphics cards
[07:07] <HyperHoRse> what is ubuntu+1
[07:10] <HyperHoRse> any babes work at ubuntu?
[07:11] <rww> HyperHoRse: #ubuntu+1 is the IRC channel (that you're currently in) for development versions of Ubuntu. If you're not using said development version, perhaps #ubuntu sent you here in error.
[07:13] <HyperHoRse> i think they did
[07:13] <HyperHoRse> nobodys really understanding what they say.
[07:13] <HyperHoRse> I*.
[07:13] <HyperHoRse> so basically
[07:14] <HyperHoRse> in the development section
[07:14] <rww> I strongly recommend you stop abusing your enter key before you're removed from here too.
[07:14] <HyperHoRse> ummm....will unity support extra in appearance
[07:15] <rww> Unity in 11.04 uses Compiz, and thus presumably Compiz effects will work fine on a Unity desktop. I don't know about versions before that, as I haven't used them.
[07:15] <HyperHoRse> rww: I am using 10.10 somebody should note that unity doesn't work properly on 10.10 and freezes often.
[07:16] <rww> HyperHoRse: Considering that Unity in 10.10 is a dead-end that was rewritten for 11.04, there wouldn't be much point in noting that.
[07:16] <HyperHoRse> Will i be able to upgrade to 11.04 from the update manager?
[07:16] <rww> yes, it'll prompt you when 11.04 comes out.
[07:17] <HyperHoRse> awesomeo. Can I set the update manager to automatically accept all distrubution upgrades?
[07:17] <HyperHoRse> and automatically download them.
[07:17] <rww> no
[07:17] <HyperHoRse> I wish that we're possible for ubuntu.
[07:18] <rww> I don't. Upgrading to a new version of Ubuntu has the potential to break things and therefore you should make backups and such before doing it. Having it done automatically would be a recipe for hurt.
[07:18] <HyperHoRse> rww: when does ubuntu 11.04 be finisheD?
[07:18] <HyperHoRse> rww: I dont need to backup this terminal
[07:19] <rww> April 28th
[07:19] <HyperHoRse> man thats ages away.
[07:20] <HyperHoRse> does google all still use ubuntu
[07:20] <rww> No idea. #ubuntu-offtopic might know.
[07:21] <HyperHoRse> thanks mate
[07:41] <HyperHoRse> support more games
[07:41] <HyperHoRse> urban terror sucks.
[07:42] <arand> HyperHoRse: It is the other way around, bug game developers.
[07:43] <HyperHoRse> why cant they just write a free game though. Actually put something else into it
[07:43] <HyperHoRse> a ubuntu game team.
[07:44] <HyperHoRse> open source.
[09:08] <Bohr> buenas
[09:09] <Bohr> a ver, tengo una duda
[09:10] <Severian> The alternate installer, starting with the March 16 build, works for Natty.  I can start with some real testing for the first time in this cycle.  Thanks to, cjwatson, I think.  I don't think it was really low urgency, but that is a quibble.
[09:11] <Bohr> do you know if dropbox will run with ubuntu 11.04?
[09:16] <Severian> It seems likely.  Why use dropbox, when UbuntuOne is available?
[09:18] <Severian> I can probably do a quick test for you on my 11.04 test machine.  I am about to wipe it and install from the daily build, so I can't mess much up.
[09:19] <Bohr> Severian, my partner use Dropbox to share files and folders, so I do the same
[09:20] <Bohr> I know Ubuntu One and I like it, but nobody in the office where i work know Ubuntu One
[09:21] <Severian> OK.  When my CD burn finishes, I'll download dropbox, install it and get back to you here.
[09:22] <Bohr> ok, thanks :-)
[09:31] <virtuelv> anyone here using multiple monitors?
[09:34] <virtuelv> the menus for
[09:35] <virtuelv> toolbar items needs to be scrolled into view, and I'm wondering if there is an open bug for it
[09:37] <Severian> Bohr, I would say it basically works.  If you have unity, which is the default for 11.04, then you can't see the icon in the taskbar that you normally use to manage your logins.  You have to find the application in Unity and run it.  I just synced files to and from dropbox and they look fine.
[09:38] <Severian> Bohr, I have an account on dropdox.  I just don't use it much.  It is probably good to get in it occasionally.  Good luck
[09:42] <Bohr> ok, thanks, but Ubuntu don't let me install de application
[09:43] <Severian> Bohr, how did you try to install it?
[09:44] <Bohr> I download it from the Dropbox web
[09:44] <Bohr> I downloaded it from the Dropbox web
[09:45] <Severian> Bohr, how did you try to install it?
[09:46] <Bohr> with the Software center
[09:47] <Severian> I did not try that.  Just open a terminal prompt and use dpkg.  That worked fine.
[09:47] <Bohr> ok, I'm going to try ity
[09:48] <Severian> dpkg -i nautilus-dropboxxxxxx.deb    whatever the package name was.  I just turn that machine off.
[09:51] <Severian> Bohr, you will need to do that command with sudo.
[09:52] <Bohr> I'm on it
[09:52] <Bohr> but I don't find the name of the package
[09:52] <Severian> Are you at a terminal prompt?
[09:53] <Bohr> yes
[09:53] <Severian> Are you in the directory where you browser puts it's downloads?
[09:55] <Bohr> ah
[09:56] <Bohr> sorry
[09:56] <Bohr> now I understand
[09:56] <Bohr> I'm beguinner
[09:56] <Severian> No problem.
[09:58] <Bohr> Severian, you're simply the best
[09:58] <Bohr> tnaks a lot
[09:59] <Severian> glad to help.  Have a good day.
[09:59] <Bohr> I'm downloading my files on dropbox
[09:59] <Bohr> ok, have a good life
[10:00] <Severian> Now if I could just get my asterisk setup working.
[10:28] <Guest1994> Hi,
[10:29] <Guest1994> control center is miss aligned for RTL local
[10:30] <Guest1994> text is aligned to right
[10:30] <Guest1994> I mean should be aligned to right
[10:30] <Guest1994>  #2 when I unfold topic to read it. it disappears.
[11:35] <coz_> hey all
[11:38] <susundberg> Hi!
[12:23] <bullgard4> After dist-upgrade and rebooting I need to configure Grub 1.98-1ubuntu9. What do the letters  X and Y mean in the syntax "set root=(hdX,Y)"?
[12:49] <scarleo> Does anyone else have problem in Ubuntu One control panel where it crash when trying to access a shared folder outside of Ubuntu One folder?
[13:02] <enli> bullgard4: X is your hard disk number and Y is partition number. The numbering starts from 0.
[13:04] <bullgard4> enli: I believe you answer: "The numbering starts from 0" is not correct. Please tell me how can I determine my hard disk number. Please tell me how can I determine my partition number.
[13:04] <bullgard4> s/you/your/
[13:06] <Pici> bullgard4: If your harddrive is hda1 then in grub it would be hd0,0 (someone correct me if I'm mistaken, I tend to use uuid).
[13:06] <enli> bullgard4: "sudo fdisk -l" will show you a tabular representation of your connected hard disks. Lets say you have got a single hard disk and the partition where ubuntu is installed is shown as /dev/sda5. Then in that case your X=0, Y=4
[13:10] <enli> bullgard4: Am I making sense?
[13:11] <bullgard4> no. Because I do not have available a terminal or virtual console.
[13:12] <ikonia> why don't you
[13:12] <Pici> Or "What do you have available?"
[13:13] <ikonia> better question
[13:30] <bullgard4> Pici: I have booted in the mean time a Ubuntu 10.10 Live CD and analyzed the partitioning of my hard disk using GParted.
[13:34] <ikonia> bullgard4: if you follow the instructions in the !grub factoid you can re-apply grub and you system will work again
[13:34] <ikonia> !Grub2
[13:57] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:59] <susundberg> Hi!
[14:06] <robin0800> BluesKaj, hi
[15:47] <smoser> anyone else able to verify bug 736935 that it is not "just me"
[15:47] <smoser> or maybe i'm just poorly educated on how to use unity
[15:54] <IdleOne> smoser: do you see mumble in the launchbar on the left?
[15:55]  * IdleOne hasn't ran Unity in a while but ctrl-tab should switch between windows
[15:55] <smoser> IdleOne, no.
[15:55] <smoser> launchpar == the thing that pops up when i push the windows key ?
[15:57] <IdleOne> smoser: no, the panel on the left hand side
[16:01] <smoser> right.
[16:01] <smoser> no it does not
[16:28] <aVirulence> hi. Does anyone else have problems with whitespace not being correctly escaped when using tab-complete in the terminal?
[16:43] <ChrisBuchholz> Hello folks. I am having some troubles with notify-osd on alpha 3. I'm not getting notifications from apps (i believe so) and if i do `notify-send test` nothing happens. Can i check somehow if its the case?
[16:51] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: is notify-osd running? If so, you could see if the messages appear in ~/.cache/notify-osd.log to see if it is getting the messages, try restarting it. Maybe dbus died on you
[16:52] <ChrisBuchholz> mm
[16:52] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: when i say `notify-osd` - to start it, if its not started - it says commands not found
[16:53] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: you don't start it manually, dbus will start it when someone sends a notification
[16:53] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: i see, just thought you meant like if a deamon was running or something :D
[16:56] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: messages appears in the log, but they dont appear
[16:56] <ChrisBuchholz> ...appear graphically
[16:57] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: strange
[16:58] <ChrisBuchholz> yes
[17:00] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: is this with unity? does it work in the classic desktop session (no effects)
[17:01] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: i've figured it out
[17:01] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: what was the problem?
[17:02] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: i have a gnome-terminal running on my second workspace fullscreen. When that is on, the notify-osd things will not appear, even if its fullscreen on another workspace than the active one
[17:02] <ChrisBuchholz> when i just maximize (or normale mode) the gnome-terminal on the second workspace, the messages appear all fine
[17:02] <ChrisBuchholz> i suppose that would be a bug?
[17:03] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: you should test it yourself
[17:04] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: sounds like a bug, I'll take a look
[17:04] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: i have to go eat now. I'll be back later to see what you've found out
[17:17] <duanedesign> anyone else having an issue with Firefox not causing the 'launcher' to hide?
[17:22] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: I can reproduce this, but judging from the contents of some older bug reports, it appears to be a feature rather than a bug. When a fullscreen app is running, all non-critical notifications are blocked. try it with: notify-send -u critical "test"; it will work
[17:24] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: now, when you don't have the workspace that contains the fullscreen app focused, and the notifications still don't show, that does seem like a bug, but it may be more of a wishlist type bug
[17:27] <soreau> I am really beginning to loathe natty
[17:33] <soreau> POS.
[17:33] <soreau> I love how unity just locks your X session into a state of blissful wallpaper and cursor
[17:33] <soreau> even after starting metacity, X is still fucked
[17:34] <soreau> I've had unity work maybe twice in the past three months wasting time on this lost cause
[17:34] <soreau> How can anyone else not see how horribly broken this crap is?
[17:36] <yofel> well, they still have more than a month to fix it..
[17:37] <charlie-tca> I keep thinking, "It is alpha software; it should still break"
[17:40] <soreau> More than a month! Oh yes, it's been broken for the past three and let's hurry up and fix it now!
[17:40] <soreau> pffft
[17:56] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: yes indeed. Did you experience it too?
[17:59] <Daekdroom> Not to forget that it's a design disaster.
[18:00] <soreau> natty *is* a design disaster
[18:01] <soreau> With a broken partition editor that refuses to start (for gpt drives?) and no working wm (who's great idea was unity? You can't just crap something like this out in 3-4 months)
[18:01] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: yes I can reproduce it, but try it with: notify-send -u critical "test";
[18:04] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: yes, that works
[18:05] <ChrisBuchholz> but i would think it should only work this way, if the fullscreened app is on the active workspace
[18:05] <ChrisBuchholz> or actually, is THE actuve app
[18:05] <ChrisBuchholz> active*
[18:06] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: I tend to agree, may want to file a bug about it, with notify-osd (if one doesn't already exist)
[18:07] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: yes, i will do that
[18:09] <magn3ts> Is anyone ever going to fix gnome-appearnce-preferences so that hte mouse pointers aren't just completely buggy and broken with compiz?
[18:11] <soreau> magn3ts: I don't think they're planning on fixing anything
[18:11] <soreau> They need another year for this release
[18:11] <magn3ts> ever?
[18:11] <magn3ts> lol
[18:11] <soreau> ever.
[18:12] <magn3ts> that's a shame. while I'm here, do you remember the update-alt command to change the pointers everywhere?
[18:12] <soreau> It's such a piece of shit, I mean how could you just ignore the partition editor not starting at all? And a completely fubar wm by default? Programs crashing every single place, where does it end?
[18:12] <magn3ts> Is it? I haven't had that many problems with it. :/
[18:12] <soreau> I have had *nothing but* problems with it since trying to use it for the past three months
[18:13] <soreau> upgrade upgrade upgrade, it's still just a broken as it was
[18:13] <soreau> no wm will run
[18:13] <soreau> no windows will show
[18:13] <soreau> X is completely useless
[18:13] <soreau> How the hell is anyone supposed to use this for anything?
[18:13] <magn3ts> You might try a clean install of alpha3?
[18:14] <soreau> Yea THE PARTITION EDITOR IS BROKEN!
[18:14] <skyjumper> dunno if i risk sounding stupid here, but couldn't someone with a "we actually care about quality" attitude release an ubuntu based distro?
[18:14] <magn3ts> idk, like I said, it's been fairly pleasant for me, but I know you know what you're doing... :P
[18:14] <soreau> How else do I explain that?
[18:14] <skyjumper> or rather, why hasn't someone done that?
[18:14] <soreau> You can't do shit for installation if your partition editor never starts
[18:14] <magn3ts> soreau, haha, I see. lol, dunna man.
[18:14] <soreau> that's kinda part of the INSTALLATION
[18:14] <magn3ts> I would have dropped to a tty and then run cfdisk or something
[18:14] <magn3ts> but that shouldn't be req'd obviously.
[18:14] <soreau> I filed a bug report, I complained and nothing I do will anyone care
[18:15] <soreau> So I say natty's a total fubar piece of garbage
[18:15] <magn3ts> That's too bad. It will probably give ppl a bad impression of Unity.
[18:15] <soreau> I hope it does because they need to fix their broken ass shit
[18:15] <charlie-tca> !language
[18:16] <magn3ts> I think 11.10 will be better anyway due to some other stuff anyhow. Hopefully the next month or so lends some more polish to natty.
[18:16] <soreau> They need to just skip 11.04 and concentrate on doing it right for 11.10
[18:17]  * soreau is not a happy customer
[18:17]  * magn3ts hopes that more and more of GNOME just gets removed. I know unity doesn't "replace" gnome necessarily, but I hate gnome.
[18:17] <magn3ts> y
[18:17] <soreau> So move to kde?
[18:17] <soreau> Who gives a krap
[18:17] <magn3ts> I like GTK apps and Unity.
[18:17] <charlie-tca> You could use classic desktop instead of the unity desktop, too. That is also an option for unity not working right.
[18:18] <soreau> charlie-tca: It's not an option when no windows will appear at all
[18:18] <magn3ts> charlie-tca, I haven't had problems with Unity except the usability disaster that is the shortcut and applications panels. showing 5 apps by default and hiding the other 100x100 pixel icons behind another mouse click is beyond me.
[18:18] <soreau> The only way I can get it sortof working is with startx and of course that is cumbersome and unnecessary
[18:20] <skyjumper> does anyone know of a general reason for linux desktops' overall low quality?
[18:20] <skyjumper> i'm seriously not trolling, i want to know
[18:20] <skyjumper> there are definitely hacker minded people who know they're doing... why aren't they involved in ubuntu/gnome/kde/etc?
[18:21] <soreau> skyjumper: It's because bug companies like canonical hire young kids that are still in school
[18:21] <soreau> They get together in some secret group to make an OSS software medley
[18:21] <soreau> sometimes it works, sometimes it's natty
[18:21] <dooglus> in 11.04, whenever I copy videos from my camera memory stick, ubuntu locks up and I have to reboot.  when I copy a few photos, it's ok, so I'm guessing it's to do with throughput.  is there some way of copying 'slowly'?
[18:21] <soreau> skyjumper: So in short, immaturity
[18:22] <skyjumper> i don't just mean bugs, it's things like the godawful font rendering that was default until like 2 versinos ago
[18:22] <skyjumper> and how opaque resize is still slow and (without compositing) flickery
[18:22] <dooglus> skyjumper: I find it's hard to get patches accepted
[18:22] <soreau> I'm just about done with ubuntu, probably will move to something more professional like fedora
[18:23] <soreau> skyjumper: Yea and then even when you do have a patch, file a bug, try to find someone to accept, they're like *yawn* we'll put it in next year maybe
[18:23] <skyjumper> soreau: exactly, it's like nobody actually cares
[18:23] <soreau> Right, so I'm going to stop caring too
[18:24] <soreau> Let the OS go to hell and see if I care. Not like I didn't try to help
[18:24] <skyjumper> i used to think the linux world was a haven of hacker-minded types, but i've heard it described as "computer science school dropouts"
[18:24] <skyjumper> and i fear that may be more accurate
[18:24] <dooglus> soreau: I've reported lots of bugs, and almost never do they get any attention
[18:25] <dooglus> soreau: then 3 years later they get closed for being "too old".  the original problem still exists, of course
[18:25] <soreau> It's just that they have the wrong people in the wrong places, or simply too much demand and not enough manpower
[18:25] <soreau> dooglus: Yea I know
[18:25] <soreau> It's very frustrating
[18:25] <soreau> and if you're not a dev with some kind of inside access, PFFFT, all bugs > /dev/null
[18:26] <dooglus> I guess instead of 'cp' I could 'rsync' the videos from the camera card - that has a speed limit option
[18:27] <skyjumper> is it a culture thing? i tried getting into developing gnome/gtk when it was first growing, and the devs' attitude was "submit patches or go aweay"
[18:27] <skyjumper> not particularly inviting to people who want to help
[18:28] <soreau> skyjumper: Well, it depends on the bunch really
[18:28] <soreau> Some people are a-holes, others are more willing to help
[18:31] <skyjumper> so the desktop OS choice is between companies who don't care about you, or individual egos who don't care about you
[18:31] <soreau> skyjumper: Well not all individuals have this ego..
[18:32] <soreau> But I just hate it when it's like 'Hype hype hype! We need testers, file bugs!' and then you do and they just yawn and do nothing
[18:32]  * skyjumper wants to know what he should do to make the linux desktop suck less, while he still cares
[18:32] <soreau> that's like the biggest letdown+slap-in-the-face
[18:32] <soreau> skyjumper: lol
[18:33] <soreau> GNU/Linux itself is grand, it's just that some distro's put everything together wrong
[18:33] <skyjumper> because eventually everyone just conforms to the crowd, my give-a-sh* will run out...
[18:33] <mateobur> Hello
[18:33] <mateobur> I'm trying natty narwal
[18:33] <soreau> skyjumper: If you go upstream to real linux kernel and driver developers, you will find some extremely knowledgeable, very helpful and friendly folks
[18:34] <mateobur> Unity looks great so far, but how can I run multiple instances of one program?
[18:34] <skyjumper> soreau: i still suspect it's a more fundamental thing with people who engineer software
[18:34] <skyjumper> have you used android at all? and ios? and compared the UI?
[18:34] <soreau> skyjumper: Yea I think the less they know, the more grumpy they are
[18:34] <soreau> after they figure out how to run a C compiler in their head, it's all right
[18:35] <skyjumper> there are people at google who don't think hardware accelerating the UI is a valid goal
[18:35] <skyjumper> blows my mind
[18:35] <soreau> Why would it be?
[18:35] <skyjumper> because ios is super smooth
[18:35] <soreau> Google is google, can't argue with their proprietariness
[18:35] <skyjumper> and everything else should aim for that level of quality
[18:36] <soreau> *shrug*
[18:36] <soreau> I just want natty to get working already
[18:36] <soreau> Now there's a terminal up but no panels or anything
[18:36] <magn3ts> skyjumper, Android is hardware acceld now
[18:36] <magn3ts> and I much prefer the L&F of Gingerbread to iOS.
[18:36] <skyjumper> magn3ts: bits and pieces. in honeycomb
[18:36] <soreau> How the fuck are you supposed to make unity panel appear? I don't see unity panel service anywhere
[18:37] <psusi> mateobur: right click -> open new window?
[18:37] <skyjumper> it's still nowhere close to the overall smoothness of ios
[18:37] <charlie-tca> !language | soreau
[18:37] <soreau> charlie-tca: Seriously? You're not helping
[18:38] <charlie-tca> neither are you, you have tried to turn this into nothing but a complaint channel, instead of trying to help
[18:38] <mateobur> psusi, I mean from the launcher
[18:38] <soreau> ChanServ: Yea well guess what: I'm here to complain!
[18:38] <ChrisBuchholz> Where do i found the project (and bug tracker) for Natty on launchpad? Gotta report some bug!
[18:39] <jrib> !bugs | ChrisBuchholz
[18:39] <psusi> mateobur: so do I?
[18:39] <soreau> charlie-tca: The whole reason I came here was to complain
[18:39] <soreau> I am complaining
[18:39] <ChrisBuchholz> jrib: i see
[18:39] <mateobur> psusi, right click only shows me the option "keep in launcher"
[18:39] <soreau> I need some help because this thing is totally broken and wasting my machines uptime
[18:39] <charlie-tca> this is actually a channel for support, not for personal complaints
[18:39] <soreau> charlie-tca: It'
[18:40] <soreau> charlie-tca: It's not personal, it's a complaint about natty
[18:40] <ChrisBuchholz> jrib: thing is, its not really a bug, but more of a way unity behaves that shouldnt be like that
[18:40] <soreau> scheduled to be next release of ubuntu from what I hear
[18:40] <psusi> mateobur: hrm... could have sworn it also had an option to open another
[18:40] <skyjumper> getting yourself fired up via complaints can be a source of motivation...
[18:40] <jrib> ChrisBuchholz: things happening that shouldn't happen are bugs, no :)
[18:40] <erle-> will there be still a gnome port of ubuntu?
[18:40] <mateobur> psusi, yes, matrix is changing fast in the alpha version
[18:40] <mateobur> xD
[18:40] <soreau> erle-: It's still going to be gnome
[18:41] <erle-> with gnome by default easy installation
[18:41] <soreau> it's just minus shell and plus a crappier, faster wm
[18:41] <ChrisBuchholz> jrib: well what should i do then? Unity and notify-osd has a big-time design flaw - i should report it, shouldnt i?
[18:41] <jrib> ChrisBuchholz: go for it
[18:41] <erle-> soreau, of course what people care about is the shell and nothing else
[18:41] <ChrisBuchholz> nevermind then, jrib
[18:41] <mateobur> another think I don't like is when I receive a notification, i.e., an IM message
[18:41] <jrib> ChrisBuchholz: if you want discussion, then maybe check if there's an appropriate mailing list
[18:41] <soreau> I'm just so fed up with natty not working. I want the damn thing to work already
[18:41] <mateobur> the icon blinks only one, so it's easy to miss it
[18:42] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: i wont be reporting it afterall, since i cant find out where to
[18:42] <ChrisBuchholz> jrib: i see
[18:42] <soreau> Can anyone say how to make unity panels appear?
[18:42] <soreau> got a blank screen here
[18:42] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: just type: ubuntu-bug notify-osd
[18:42] <soreau> unity is running with gnome-terminal but there are no panels in site
[18:42] <soreau> and I don'
[18:42] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: really? But its not like notify--osd fails or something?
[18:42] <soreau> and I don't see any unity panel service\
[18:42] <jrib> soreau: what drivers are you using?
[18:43] <soreau> jrib: r300g AFAIK
[18:43] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: I think it is a notify-osd problem, along with compiz (it works on the no-effects desktop)
[18:43] <jrib> soreau: why "AFAIK"?
[18:43] <soreau> jrib: AFAIK = as far as I know
[18:43] <soreau> jrib: Confirmed, radeon with gallium
[18:43] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: i see
[18:43] <soreau> drivers work great
[18:43] <jrib> soreau: I know what it means, but I am not sure why you would say that
[18:43] <soreau> unity does not
[18:43] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: but I would go with notify-osd because from previous bug reports, they specifically enabled that behavior, but as you said, it should only be when the fullscreen app workspace has focus
[18:44] <soreau> jrib: Because originally when I installed natty, my user wasn't part of the video group
[18:44] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: yes indeed
[18:44] <jrib> soreau: is he supposed to be?
[18:44] <soreau> jrib: So even though X log looked great, I didn't have permission for 3D
[18:44] <soreau> jrib: Yes, otherwise the user can't open /dev/dri/card0
[18:44] <soreau> jrib: Because it's owned by root video
[18:45] <soreau> jrib: But now that's fixed and I boot natty, it boots but to a screen with only wallpaper and mouse cursor
[18:45] <soreau> jrib: Then I go to tty and have to monkey around to get a terminal and working wm up
[18:45] <jrib> soreau: are these the drivers provided by the Additional Drivers tool?
[18:45] <soreau> jrib: And after that, unity works but there's no panels in site and with unity --replace, it says something about not finding unity panel service or something
[18:46] <soreau> jrib: No, it's The Open Source Radeon driver
[18:46] <soreau> no prop fglrx or anything
[18:46] <soreau> untainted kernel
[18:46] <jrib> soreau: for troubleshooting purposes, you might try the other driver
[18:46] <soreau> jrib: unity worked fine when I first added my user to video
[18:47] <soreau> jrib: The other driver doesn't support older non-HD cards at all anymore
[18:47] <soreau> jrib: Last time it did was like 8.10 or so
[18:47] <jrib> soreau: does Additional drivers offer it?
[18:47] <soreau> jrib: It *is not* a driver issue
[18:47] <soreau> No
[18:47] <jrib> soreau: k
[18:47] <soreau> I am very well versed on the driver situation
[18:47] <soreau> I know it's unity (panel) screwing up
[18:48] <soreau> I just need to know what to do to get this panel to appear
[18:48]  * soreau goes to complain in a more intelligent channel
[18:48] <jrib> right, guess I'll go do something more interesting too.
[18:48] <skyjumper> soreau: where do you find intelligent channels?
[18:49] <soreau> skyjumper: There's no such thing as an intelligent channel, only channels with intelligent people ;)
[18:50] <skyjumper> kept secret, i'm sure
[18:51] <soreau> Ok, let's try an easier one
[19:01] <soreau> Can someone show the output of 'ps ax|grep unity-panel-service|grep -v grep'?
[19:01] <soreau> with a working unity (panel) of course
[19:01] <robin0800> soreau, actually I use unity 2d because tj
[19:02] <soreau> I see it's in /var/lib/unity but need to know if there's any special args
[19:02] <zniavre> tj?
[19:02] <Daekdroom> soreau,  1793 ?        Sl     0:49 /usr/lib/unity/unity-panel-service
[19:02] <soreau> Daekdroom: ok thanks
[19:03]  * soreau wonders why unity complains that it can't find this
[19:03] <Daekdroom> Because it's a wreck.
[19:03] <coz_> hey all
[19:03] <mateobur> anybody knows how to run more than 1 instance of a program with the launcher in 11.04?
[19:03] <robin0800> soreau, actually I use unity 2d because compiz does not work well with gallium ati driver
[19:03] <Daekdroom> robin0800, what? it works well in here.
[19:04] <soreau> robin0800: bullshit
[19:04] <soreau> I'm using r300g and it works great
[19:04] <Daekdroom> I'm using r600g from xorg-edgers and I get gpu lockups on kernel from time to time.
[19:04] <soreau> I start unity-panel-service and it runs and unity doesn't complain but there's still no panels on my screen
[19:04] <Daekdroom> and some corruption..
[19:04] <soreau> Why does this thing hate so bad?
[19:04] <robin0800> soreau, dosen't sound like it
[19:05] <soreau> robin0800: He's using r600g
[19:05] <soreau> It's less mature than r300g
[19:05] <soreau> and it still should work well for at least compiz/unity
[19:06] <soreau> very least*
[19:06] <robin0800> iv'e got r350 and that dose't like compiz
[19:06] <soreau> robin0800: That's because you're doing it wrong
[19:06] <soreau> I have the exact same card and it works just fine
[19:07] <Daekdroom> Can't wait until a decent build of gnome-shell becomes available through PPA or repos..
[19:07] <soreau> robin0800: If you're at the machine right now, what is the output of 'glxinfo|grep renderer'?
[19:07] <soreau> Daekdroom: There's going to be a decent build? What's that supposed to mean, somehow they magically made it not suck?
[19:08] <coz_> :)
[19:08] <Daekdroom> soreau, by that I mean a build that doesn't make mutter crash every 5 seconds.
[19:08] <Daekdroom> I liked the interfaced.
[19:08] <soreau> Daekdroom: Sounds more like less-suckage and less like decent-build
[19:09] <soreau> or, we-fixed-a-bug-yay!
[19:09] <hasenj> question, when I try to upgrade with `update-manager -d` the process stops because fetching from ppa's fails
[19:09] <soreau> robin0800: If you're at the machine right now, what is the output of 'glxinfo|grep renderer'?
[19:09] <Daekdroom> I'll wait till I can actually test it so I can tell, but Unity's design is a wreckage.
[19:10] <soreau> Daekdroom: I can't even comment further on how much of a wreck it is because I can't even get it working here to test
[19:10] <soreau> It worked maybe twice in the past three months
[19:10] <coz_> hasenj,  are you already on natty or upgrading from maverick?
[19:10] <soreau> This is the last time I will ever waste a partition on ubuntu pre-release
[19:10] <hasenj> coz_, upgrading from maverick
[19:11] <coz_> soreau,  actually this is the best pre release I have seen in some time :)
[19:11] <coz_> go figure
[19:11] <Daekdroom> It makes me want to install Fedora and learn to compile things instead of using PPAs
[19:11] <soreau> coz_: It's a piece of shit, STFU
[19:11] <robin0800> soreau, OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on ATI RV350
[19:11] <coz_> soreau,  well from that you can gather was previous pre releases may have been like :)
[19:11] <soreau> Daekdroom: Why do you need fedora to learn how to build things?
[19:11] <soreau> robin0800: Well it's working then, not sure why you'd have any problems with compiz
[19:11] <Daekdroom> soreau, because there's no alternative. PPAs are too easy and I'm lazy.
[19:12] <coz_> hasenj,  well I could probably give you a default natty sources.list if you like
[19:12] <coz_> soreau,  when you used that default sources list I gave you ,, did thing work well afterwards?
[19:12] <soreau> Daekdroom: I thought fedora was primarily binary distro
[19:12] <soreau> coz_: Hell no
[19:12] <soreau> Complete fubardom
[19:12] <coz_> soreau,  oh!!!
[19:12] <popey> mateobur: middle click
[19:12] <popey> 19:03:32 < mateobur> anybody knows how to run more than 1 instance of a program with the launcher in 11.04?
[19:12] <Daekdroom> soreau, I'm talking about grabbing specific bleeding edge versions
[19:12] <mateobur> popey, oooh! cool!
[19:13] <robin0800> so compiz or gallium show tears in the video render Ive raised a bug
[19:13] <hasenj> coz_, I think that will confuse me, I think I could disable ppas but it's a chore, I was wondering if this behavior was expected or not because I don't remember encountering it when upgrading to maverick
[19:13] <Daekdroom> hasenj, not expected, I believe
[19:13] <soreau> Daekdroom: Well they have stuff in fedora similar..
[19:13] <Daekdroom> soreau, do they?
[19:13] <soreau> but ppa's do make it pretty easy
[19:13] <popey> PPAs are usually disabled on upgrades
[19:13] <coz_> hasenj, ` well I havent had a chance to upgrade from maverick with this since months ago
[19:13] <popey> all 3rd party repos are
[19:13] <soreau> Daekdroom: The only thing is, you have to rely on the ppa maintainer to update
[19:13] <robin0800> soreau,  compiz or gallium show tears in the video render Ive raised a bug
[19:14] <soreau> robin0800: In what video?
[19:14] <hasenj> it did say it will disable third party sources ..
[19:14] <coz_> hasenj,  if you want the easy way to disable ,,, if they havent been which they should have been..you can go to system/administrations.software sources ,,,second tab and simply untick the PPA's in the list
[19:14] <hasenj> coz_, yea, this is what I'm doing right now
[19:14] <soreau> Daekdroom: Yea, you'd have to ask in a fedora channel but I think they have ways to run the latest dev codes, esp for gfx drivers and such
[19:14] <robin0800> soreau, all desktop folders web pages
[19:15] <soreau> robin0800: How are desktop folders and webpages videos
[19:15] <soreau> Well I'll be damned
[19:15] <hasenj> oh boy I have tons of ppas installed
[19:15] <soreau> I started compiz instead of unity, now unity panels appear
[19:15] <soreau> wtf
[19:15] <robin0800> soreau, well the render then
[19:16] <soreau> robin0800: You're not being very clear
[19:16] <soreau> Or my reading is vague
[19:16] <soreau> can't tell which
[19:16] <soreau> maybe my conprehension is off, I need a joint and a hearing aid
[19:17] <soreau> Yep, somethings wrong with the conprehension
[19:17] <soreau> I'ts misspelled ;)
[19:23] <robin0800> soreau, let me try to explain Im using xchat and have tabs for the channels if I switch the output of one channel gets mixed with another
[19:25] <soreau> Sounds like damage issues
[19:25] <robin0800> soreau, obvisly its not realy mixed but until I drag a mouse over it it is not right
[19:25] <soreau> I swear this is the most ridiculous thing ever
[19:26] <soreau> I get unity panel running and now, it wont let me type in the damn thing
[19:26] <soreau> It worked one time and that was it
[19:26] <soreau> I typed gconf-editor and pressed enter, so it decided to start not gconf-editor but ubuntu fucking software center
[19:27] <robin0800> soreau, in the early days I could disable the gallium driver then it was ok
[19:27] <soreau> Then that's the end of it, no way to type anything in the unity box anymore
[19:27] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: its out and about now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/737047
[19:27] <soreau> robin0800: You want to figure out which component it is and file a bug against it
[19:27] <soreau> robin0800: gallium is here to stay so it definitely should be fixed
[19:27] <mateobur> is it possible to configure the icons in the launch bar to flash until I attend the event?
[19:28] <robin0800> soreau,  its the gallium driver I have filed a bug
[19:28] <soreau> robin0800: good
[19:28] <soreau> Will save me one less report to write
[19:28] <hasenj> I disabled all third party sources, now it says something about an unresolvable problem that maybe caused by held packages
[19:28] <hasenj> did I disable too many sources? :P
[19:30] <trism> ChrisBuchholz: looks good
[19:31] <hasenj> is there a way to upgrade from the command line directly?
[19:31] <ChrisBuchholz> trism: yes
[19:37] <h00k> ubottu: tell soreau about language
[19:38] <soreau> h00k: Oh, can it.
[19:38] <soreau> Yes, it's a pun on canonical
[19:38] <h00k> soreau: Also, please mind the !attitude, and check the !codeofconduct as well
[19:39] <h00k> !attitude | soreau
[19:39] <h00k> !codeofconduct | soreau
[19:46] <soreau> h00k: What. Ever.
[19:47]  * soreau guesses this is the kiddie-pool channel
[19:49] <hasenj> ok, so the upgrade fails, and one of the reasons listed for failure is "upgrading to a pre-release version of Ubuntu"
[19:49] <hasenj> that's .. weird
[19:49] <hasenj> is there some setting preventing the upgrade to a pre-release version?
[19:50] <coz_> hasenj,  would you like me to upload the default sources.list?
[19:50] <hasenj> coz_, ok, I'd like to try that
[19:50] <coz_> ok hold on
[19:50] <coz_> hasenj,     http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/sources.txt
[19:51] <coz_> I beleve that is current
[19:51] <hasenj> alright, thanks
[19:54] <KB1JWQ> Building a template for natty so it runs in ProxMox/OpenVZ, what fun.
[19:55] <hasenj> still getting the same error even with this sources file
[19:56] <hasenj> should I rename sources.list.d/ to something else?
[20:11] <coz_> hasenj,  mmm
[20:11] <hasenj> renaming the sources.list.d made it even worse
[20:12] <coz_> hasenj,  I dont so ,, did you delete or back up your sources.list and then replace it with the natty one?
[20:12] <hasenj> yea yea :)
[20:12] <coz_> mmm
[20:12] <hasenj> /etc/apt/sources.list right?
[20:12] <coz_> yep
[20:12] <hasenj> I've messed with some packages, like I removed network-manager
[20:12] <hasenj> could that be a reason?
[20:12] <coz_> hasenj, oooo
[20:13] <coz_> hasenj,  why did you do that?
[20:13] <hasenj> cuz, I wanted the new indicator-based version
[20:13] <coz_> hasenj,  use the old sources.list...  then do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade if it works
[20:13] <hasenj> yea I tried that already, it works
[20:13] <coz_> hasenj,  oh
[20:14] <hasenj> I'm downloading the alternative cd
[20:14] <hasenj> to try to upgrade from there
[20:22] <HelloWorld> Does anyone have a recommendation for a dev suite?  I used to be corporate and had MSDN & Visual Studio forced upon me, but I'm going freelance and have in mind to switch to Eclipse, esp. since most of my dev will be in R.  Are MSDN & Eclipse still considered state-of-the-art??  What do you all use for dev?
[20:27] <hasenj> now trying cdromupgrade
[20:27] <hasenj> aha
[20:27] <hasenj> Can't install 'ubuntu-desktop'
[20:27] <hasenj> It was impossible to install a required package. Please report this as a bug.
[20:28] <hasenj> well, I'll install ubuntu-desktop and see if that fixes it
[20:29] <hasenj> now it says "Can not mark 'ubuntu-desktop' for upgrade"
[20:30] <hasenj> ah, dist-upgrade ..
[20:33] <hasenj> cdromupgrade still failed
[20:33] <hasenj> but the normal upgrade seems to be working :D
[20:34] <KB1JWQ> HelloWorld: Depends what I'm coding in.  Eclipse is okay, but the bulk of my stuff gets done in vim.
[20:38] <HelloWorld> tx.  I don't know vim.  I'll take a peek
[22:23] <kim0> Hi guys, is there some known problem with flash sound being metallic
[22:44] <awsoonn> hi all, is this the right place to talk about natty bugs?
[22:45] <yofel> talk yes, report no
[22:45] <awsoonn> I've been out of the loop for a bit more than a year, so I'm a bit rusty on where everything is :P
[22:45] <yofel> kim0: I think I've heard what you mean too, no idea where that comes from
[22:46] <yofel> awsoonn: welcome back then :)
[22:46] <awsoonn> well, if naatty daily doesn't install in virtual box, should it be reported?
[22:46] <awsoonn> or shall I assume a dev has it under control
[22:46] <yofel> where does it fail?
[22:46] <awsoonn> ext4 fs creation in LVM
[22:47] <awsoonn> defaults
[22:47] <yofel> wouldn't hurt to report it, but I personally don't know against what
[22:48] <awsoonn> that's a bug in lvm or ext4, so 'linux' would be a good start eh?
[22:49] <yofel> if it's ext4 yeah,  or since it failed during install debian-installer would be a choice too. But the report would probably be useless without an actual error message
[22:49] <awsoonn> I'll try to narrow it down a bit, thanks!
[22:49] <robin0800_> awsoonn, dailies often brake I just wait until tomorrow for the next one
[22:51] <awsoonn> I suppose reporting aganst a3 would be more usefull huh?
[22:51] <awsoonn> I should have known
[22:55] <robin0800_> awsoonn, you could always use alpha3 though there are a lot of updates already for it
[22:59] <kim0> yofel: yeah, doesn't happen on youtube but almost everywhere else
[23:36] <awsoonn> is it a good idea to update alpha3 after installing it?
[23:36] <Jordan_U> awsoonn: Yes.
[23:36] <awsoonn> k :) thanks
[23:36] <Jordan_U> You're welcome.
[23:53] <MaximLevitsky> Unity? I have few usability questions about it
[23:54] <MaximLevitsky> How do a launch an application?
[23:54] <MaximLevitsky> Ok, not that I don't know, but that seem to be buried deep
[23:54] <dasen> click the upper left icon and type the name of the application, if everything goes fine the app shows up
[23:54] <dasen> or click on the icon applications further below the dock
[23:55] <MaximLevitsky> OK, I don't want to type the app name
[23:55] <MaximLevitsky> I can type it in terminal as well
[23:55] <dasen> you can then use the application icon down on the dock
[23:55] <MaximLevitsky> I know....
[23:56] <dasen> I know, I also miss a "start" button, maybe the devs will listen to users about it
[23:56] <dasen> or someone codes a plugin to do that
[23:56] <MaximLevitsky> Aplications -> see more results -> see android type huge pile of apps...
[23:56] <dasen> yeah :))
[23:56] <dasen> that would be sweet
[23:56] <dasen> are u running natty?
[23:56] <MaximLevitsky> The menu next to seartch appear not to work
[23:57] <MaximLevitsky> Yep
[23:57] <dasen> me too
[23:57] <dasen> I love it
[23:57] <dasen> a few bugs, but I'm okay with that
[23:57] <dasen> well, I gotta go
[23:57] <MaximLevitsky> I actually have very positive attitude to unity
[23:57] <dasen> by guys
[23:57] <dasen> me too
[23:57] <MaximLevitsky> I just can't convince myself I can stand it :-(
[23:57] <dasen> I think it might be a nice interface for linux
[23:58] <dasen> aha
[23:58] <dasen> well, I gotta go
[23:58] <MaximLevitsky> Also global menu (hate it with passion) doesn't work
[23:58] <dasen> get some sleep
[23:58] <MaximLevitsky> dasen: Bye!
[23:58] <dasen> yeah, global menu sucks  a bit
[23:59] <dasen> but what would you do with all that space on the top bar?
[23:59] <MaximLevitsky> And why apps start in fullscreen... grrr
[23:59] <dasen> free space I mean
[23:59] <dasen> ehe
[23:59] <dasen> I think they want to remove window-management from the equation