=== yaos_ is now known as yaos | ||
=== yaos is now known as kenami | ||
=== smspillazzzz is now known as smspillaz | ||
=== smspillaz is now known as smspillaz|food | ||
omar_ | hi | 11:41 |
---|---|---|
=== jackson is now known as Guest29918 | ||
=== smspillaz|food is now known as smspillaz | ||
=== Ddorda is now known as bamba | ||
=== apachelogger is now known as apachelogger_ | ||
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger__ | ||
=== apachelogger__ is now known as apachelogger___ | ||
=== apachelogger___ is now known as apachelogger | ||
=== squishy is now known as SquishyNotHere | ||
=== SquishyNotHere is now known as squishy | ||
=== squishy is now known as SquishyNotHere | ||
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
=== bamba is now known as Ddorda | ||
dpm | ok, so it's time for a translations session :) | 16:01 |
dpm | hey all, and welcome to another session in the translations training series | 16:02 |
dpm | We'll wait for a couple of minutes for people to come in... | 16:02 |
hannie | dpm = David? | 16:04 |
dpm | yeah :) | 16:04 |
hannie | hi | 16:05 |
dpm | hey hannie, nice to see you here :) | 16:05 |
dpm | any other translators around? | 16:05 |
michael_k | yeah! | 16:05 |
dpm | o/ michael_k | 16:05 |
dpm | ok, so I guess we can get started | 16:05 |
michael_k | aka mk73628 | 16:05 |
dpm | this session is not moderated, so feel free to interrupt me if you've got any questions | 16:06 |
hajour | hai hannie | 16:06 |
dpm | Today we're going to talk about translation quality and quality assurance (QA) | 16:06 |
dpm | That is, how you can make sure you can provide the best translations for the best Operating System around | 16:07 |
dpm | I'll first cover a couple of background topics, then we'll have a look at review workflows | 16:07 |
dpm | and finally I'll go through some resources you can use to improve the quality of your translations | 16:07 |
dpm | Why is translation quality important | 16:08 |
dpm | ------------------------------------ | 16:08 |
dpm | Most importantly, translations can affect the overall impression users get on the OS. | 16:08 |
dpm | Good and consistent translations will provide a good user experience, but mistakes and typos can give a poor impresion to an otherwise awesome Operating System | 16:09 |
dpm | Wrong translations can also be misleading: | 16:09 |
dpm | just imagine translating "We've accepted your payment" to "We've taken all of your money" | 16:09 |
dpm | this might be far-fetched | 16:10 |
michael_k | but can make you pm of greece | 16:10 |
dpm | hahaha | 16:10 |
dpm | but translation mistakes do happen, especially on messages that are ambiguous | 16:10 |
dpm | or that lack context | 16:10 |
dpm | So we want to make sure our translations are as good as we can make them | 16:11 |
dpm | Basic rules for translation quality | 16:11 |
dpm | ----------------------------------- | 16:11 |
hannie | When in doubt, we use the mailing list to discuss a translation problem | 16:11 |
dpm | it's really cool when participants actually deliver the session! | 16:12 |
dpm | that's really good advice ^ | 16:12 |
dpm | communication is important | 16:12 |
dpm | especially in case of doubt | 16:13 |
michael_k | +1 | 16:13 |
dpm | actually, perhaps rather than me talking, we can make this a bit more participative | 16:13 |
hannie | I want to add something, ok? | 16:13 |
dpm | sure! | 16:13 |
dpm | which tips do you guys have for teams to provide better quality translations? | 16:14 |
hannie | After the right decision we put the translation on a list on our wiki | 16:14 |
hannie | The list gets longer and longer | 16:14 |
dpm | so you're basically building a translation memory or translation guidelines of some sort as you go along, right? | 16:15 |
hannie | right, we do it together | 16:15 |
hajour | hannie let check translation by people who make a program like that and/or use them from IRC | 16:15 |
dpm | ok, cool | 16:15 |
dpm | ok, so let me go on with some other basic rules: | 16:16 |
dpm | * Check out the context - | 16:16 |
dpm | when doing a translation, try to guess what the context is in the application. | 16:16 |
dpm | There can be several different translations of the same original English message depending on how it is being used, | 16:16 |
dpm | and you will want to make sure you pick the right one. | 16:17 |
dpm | Read the translator comments the developer has left for you, if any, as that will be really helpful in understanding where the text comes from. | 16:17 |
michael_k | *sighs* | 16:18 |
dpm | Try to run the application and locate the message, so you can have a clear picture where and how it is used. | 16:18 |
dpm | Alternatively, if you can read source code, there is usually an indication on where the message comes from in the code, and this will generally help determine its exact usage | 16:18 |
dpm | what else? | 16:19 |
dpm | * Review - | 16:19 |
dpm | This should actually be review, review, and review some more :) | 16:19 |
hannie | Can we ask writers to give us more information? | 16:19 |
hannie | Especially where variables are used | 16:19 |
dpm | yeah, definitely. You might have different experiences depending on the developer | 16:20 |
dpm | and it might not be feasible to add comments to all strings, but: | 16:20 |
hannie | Do you do this through a bug report? | 16:20 |
michael_k | I would also suggest checking out similar apps | 16:20 |
dpm | yeah, a bug report would help you make your case | 16:20 |
dpm | and it's how developers track their work | 16:20 |
hannie | I have done it once and guess what: | 16:21 |
hannie | I got an answer from Mark Shuttleworth | 16:21 |
dpm | :) | 16:21 |
michael_k | cool! | 16:21 |
dpm | that's the beauty of our community | 16:21 |
dpm | ok, any more comments on context, or shall I go on to the review part? | 16:22 |
hannie | go ahead | 16:22 |
michael_k | yeap! | 16:22 |
dpm | ok, so | 16:22 |
dpm | * Review - | 16:22 |
dpm | regardless of whether you are doing this before accepting a translation or after, this is one of the most important parts in the process: | 16:22 |
dpm | always review your translations - no one is infallible, and you will, from time to time create translations with typos. | 16:23 |
dpm | No matter if you are an experienced translator or not | 16:24 |
dpm | (I do them all the time :) | 16:24 |
michael_k | me2! | 16:24 |
dpm | Apart from that, it is always useful to get feedback and foster discussion on translations, as some other translator might have a better proposal, | 16:24 |
hannie | +1 | 16:24 |
dpm | and these discussions are invaluable to get more translation experience. | 16:24 |
dpm | as hannie and hajour were mentioning earlier | 16:24 |
dpm | The most useful method is to do peer review: | 16:25 |
dpm | let other translators go through your translations, fix mistakes and provide feedback. | 16:25 |
hannie | The problem is that you need many good translators for this | 16:26 |
michael_k | Or (like us) a (sadly) small team | 16:26 |
dpm | That's true, but these good translators, when they act as reviewers, can be excellent trainers for new translators | 16:26 |
hannie | Ours has five translators with full access at the moment | 16:27 |
michael_k | OK! so it's easier to communicate and check uot each other | 16:27 |
dpm | yeah, but 5 people can do a lot! :-) We're a small team as well | 16:27 |
dpm | Ok, onto the next point: | 16:27 |
dpm | * Test - | 16:27 |
dpm | We've got an awesome and vast community, that can help testing your translations | 16:28 |
dpm | so reach out to them | 16:28 |
dpm | ask users to test the translations by using the OS, and to provide feedback on local forums or mailing lists | 16:28 |
michael_k | +1 | 16:29 |
hannie | How can you test when the translation is not you published? | 16:29 |
dpm | there are two options: | 16:29 |
hannie | *you = yet | 16:30 |
dpm | during the development period, language pack updates are released often for those applications supported in language packs (most of them) | 16:30 |
dpm | so anyone running the development version can test translations relatively early after they've been done | 16:30 |
dpm | on stable releases: | 16:30 |
dpm | folks can test translations before a language pack is being released by enabling the -proposed repository | 16:31 |
dpm | and following the steps on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA | 16:31 |
hannie | Question: if someone installs Natty now, can he see the translations for Natty that we recently made on LP? | 16:32 |
dpm | or they can use the weekly translations PPA (more on that later), to have fresh translations every week | 16:32 |
dpm | hannie, the short answer: yes | 16:32 |
dpm | Let me ellaborate on that | 16:32 |
dpm | language packs for the development version are being released twice a week | 16:33 |
dpm | If you look at the table on https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule | 16:33 |
dpm | on the "Language Pack Builds" column | 16:33 |
dpm | you see that builds start Tuesday and Friday | 16:33 |
dpm | so for Natty that means that language packs are usually available one day later: Wednesday and Saturday | 16:34 |
dpm | unless we are close to a milestone | 16:34 |
dpm | e.g. Alpha-1, Alpha-3, Beta, etc. | 16:34 |
dpm | as before the milestones we put on hold any automatic package uploads | 16:35 |
dpm | to make sure nothing uncontrolled slips into the milestone release unnoticed | 16:35 |
dpm | Any other questions on testing? | 16:36 |
michael_k | Just a suggetsion | 16:36 |
dpm | sure | 16:36 |
michael_k | if you are tranlsating something technical | 16:37 |
michael_k | try to reach people expert into that to get some insight in technical jargon | 16:37 |
michael_k | thety can help you test and alos you promote the OS | 16:37 |
dpm | yeah, that's good advice, thanks michael_k | 16:38 |
dpm | Reviewing translations in Launchpad | 16:38 |
dpm | ----------------------------------- | 16:38 |
hannie | We have recently asked people with knowledge in a specific area to give us their email address | 16:39 |
hannie | so that we can ask them questions about that area | 16:39 |
hannie | I have put all the information in a database | 16:39 |
dpm | oh, cool | 16:40 |
hannie | think of maths, electronics, telecommunication etc | 16:40 |
michael_k | +1 | 16:40 |
hannie | dpm, sorry for interrupting | 16:41 |
dpm | no worries, as I said, I welcome participation, it makes the session more fun :) | 16:41 |
hannie | ok | 16:41 |
dpm | ok, back to the topic | 16:41 |
dpm | Reviewing translations in Launchpad | 16:41 |
dpm | ----------------------------------- | 16:41 |
dpm | Launchpad provides review functionality that can be really helpful, you should definitely try it | 16:42 |
michael_k | it's also EASY! | 16:42 |
dpm | Even if you are a translator with full write access in Launchpad | 16:42 |
hannie | like what? | 16:42 |
hannie | suggestions? | 16:42 |
dpm | for example, you can try to use the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox when providing a translation, so it ends up as a suggestion | 16:43 |
dpm | that someone else has to review and accept | 16:43 |
dpm | If you don't want to click on every message to activate that, you can use the "Reviewer mode" functionality | 16:44 |
hannie | Yes, I use this checkbox when I am not sure about something and want to do some research first | 16:44 |
dpm | with it, every translation you provide will be added as a suggestion | 16:44 |
dpm | as what the option effectively does is to tick the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox for you. | 16:45 |
dpm | But even if you don't do that, and translate directly, you can still use suggestions for review | 16:46 |
dpm | by asking someone else to do the peer review of your translated strings and leave alternative suggestions for you to consider in those cases where he/she thinks there are better alternatives | 16:47 |
dpm | or mistakes | 16:47 |
dpm | You know the drill, for good translations QA, review, review, review :) | 16:47 |
dpm | whichever your workflow is | 16:47 |
michael_k | +1 | 16:47 |
denisbr | Olá | 16:48 |
denisbr | Hello All | 16:49 |
michael_k | sorry I have to go now! David thank you for another gr8 session! bb everyone!! | 16:49 |
hannie | ola | 16:49 |
dpm | ok, so we're approaching the end of the session, and we haven't covered everything yet. So I think we'll just leave the rest for the next session. What do you prefer to do with the remaining time? Shall I go quickly through a couple of remaining points or do you want to do a bit of Q+A? | 16:49 |
dpm | ola denisbr | 16:49 |
hannie | bye michael_k | 16:49 |
dpm | bye michael_k!! | 16:49 |
denisbr | I do lost the videocast? | 16:50 |
dpm | denisbr, there wasn't a videocast this week, but I'm planning one for next week | 16:51 |
dpm | Ok, so I'll quickly go through a couple of points: | 16:51 |
hannie | denisbr: into which language do you translate? | 16:51 |
dpm | Whenever you see a translation mistake in an application: | 16:52 |
denisbr | Portuguese Brazil | 16:52 |
dpm | If you think it's something that your translation team can fix, you should contact them | 16:52 |
dpm | Otherwise, you can always report it as a bug on the translations project at: | 16:52 |
dpm | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+filebug | 16:52 |
dpm | And finally, as I was mentioning it on the testing part earlier on, here's how to activate the weekly language pack PPA | 16:54 |
dpm | Using the weekly translations PPA | 16:54 |
dpm | --------------------------------- | 16:54 |
dpm | These are really useful to test translations on a weekly bases for *stable* releases | 16:54 |
dpm | So that you can always run the freshest translations and spot any mistakes and fix them quickly before they reach the wider audience | 16:55 |
dpm | The PPA is available here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa | 16:56 |
dpm | and you can easily add it by running this on the command line: | 16:56 |
dpm | sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-langpack/ppa | 16:56 |
dpm | sudo apt-get update | 16:56 |
hannie | I love links ;) | 16:56 |
dpm | sudo apt-get upgrade | 16:56 |
dpm | in case of doubt, you can check out the excellent help on the LP wiki: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware | 16:57 |
dpm | So, we didn't cover the workflows, but we did cover a lot of ground. I think we'll leave it here and discuss the rest on another session | 16:58 |
hannie | ok, thank you very much, David. See you nest time | 16:59 |
dpm | Thanks a lot for everyone's participation, it was a lot of fun :) | 16:59 |
dpm | thanks hannie | 16:59 |
hannie | *next | 16:59 |
hannie | bye, bye | 16:59 |
hajour | thanks for the clear class dpm | 16:59 |
dpm | thanks hajour | 17:00 |
dpm | and see you all on the next training session in a week or two! | 17:00 |
serfus | dpm, great session | 17:00 |
dpm | thanks serfus, thanks for listening in :) | 17:01 |
=== smspillaz is now known as smspillaz|zzz | ||
=== _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero | ||
=== itnet7_ is now known as itnet7 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!