=== yaos_ is now known as yaos === yaos is now known as kenami === smspillazzzz is now known as smspillaz === smspillaz is now known as smspillaz|food [11:41] hi === jackson is now known as Guest29918 === smspillaz|food is now known as smspillaz === Ddorda is now known as bamba === apachelogger is now known as apachelogger_ === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger__ === apachelogger__ is now known as apachelogger___ === apachelogger___ is now known as apachelogger === squishy is now known as SquishyNotHere === SquishyNotHere is now known as squishy === squishy is now known as SquishyNotHere === yofel_ is now known as yofel === bamba is now known as Ddorda [16:01] ok, so it's time for a translations session :) [16:02] hey all, and welcome to another session in the translations training series [16:02] We'll wait for a couple of minutes for people to come in... [16:04] dpm = David? [16:04] yeah :) [16:05] hi [16:05] hey hannie, nice to see you here :) [16:05] any other translators around? [16:05] yeah! [16:05] o/ michael_k [16:05] ok, so I guess we can get started [16:05] aka mk73628 [16:06] this session is not moderated, so feel free to interrupt me if you've got any questions [16:06] hai hannie [16:06] Today we're going to talk about translation quality and quality assurance (QA) [16:07] That is, how you can make sure you can provide the best translations for the best Operating System around [16:07] I'll first cover a couple of background topics, then we'll have a look at review workflows [16:07] and finally I'll go through some resources you can use to improve the quality of your translations [16:08] Why is translation quality important [16:08] ------------------------------------ [16:08] Most importantly, translations can affect the overall impression users get on the OS. [16:09] Good and consistent translations will provide a good user experience, but mistakes and typos can give a poor impresion to an otherwise awesome Operating System [16:09] Wrong translations can also be misleading: [16:09] just imagine translating "We've accepted your payment" to "We've taken all of your money" [16:10] this might be far-fetched [16:10] but can make you pm of greece [16:10] hahaha [16:10] but translation mistakes do happen, especially on messages that are ambiguous [16:10] or that lack context [16:11] So we want to make sure our translations are as good as we can make them [16:11] Basic rules for translation quality [16:11] ----------------------------------- [16:11] When in doubt, we use the mailing list to discuss a translation problem [16:12] it's really cool when participants actually deliver the session! [16:12] that's really good advice ^ [16:12] communication is important [16:13] especially in case of doubt [16:13] +1 [16:13] actually, perhaps rather than me talking, we can make this a bit more participative [16:13] I want to add something, ok? [16:13] sure! [16:14] which tips do you guys have for teams to provide better quality translations? [16:14] After the right decision we put the translation on a list on our wiki [16:14] The list gets longer and longer [16:15] so you're basically building a translation memory or translation guidelines of some sort as you go along, right? [16:15] right, we do it together [16:15] hannie let check translation by people who make a program like that and/or use them from IRC [16:15] ok, cool [16:16] ok, so let me go on with some other basic rules: [16:16] * Check out the context - [16:16] when doing a translation, try to guess what the context is in the application. [16:16] There can be several different translations of the same original English message depending on how it is being used, [16:17] and you will want to make sure you pick the right one. [16:17] Read the translator comments the developer has left for you, if any, as that will be really helpful in understanding where the text comes from. [16:18] *sighs* [16:18] Try to run the application and locate the message, so you can have a clear picture where and how it is used. [16:18] Alternatively, if you can read source code, there is usually an indication on where the message comes from in the code, and this will generally help determine its exact usage [16:19] what else? [16:19] * Review - [16:19] This should actually be review, review, and review some more :) [16:19] Can we ask writers to give us more information? [16:19] Especially where variables are used [16:20] yeah, definitely. You might have different experiences depending on the developer [16:20] and it might not be feasible to add comments to all strings, but: [16:20] Do you do this through a bug report? [16:20] I would also suggest checking out similar apps [16:20] yeah, a bug report would help you make your case [16:20] and it's how developers track their work [16:21] I have done it once and guess what: [16:21] I got an answer from Mark Shuttleworth [16:21] :) [16:21] cool! [16:21] that's the beauty of our community [16:22] ok, any more comments on context, or shall I go on to the review part? [16:22] go ahead [16:22] yeap! [16:22] ok, so [16:22] * Review - [16:22] regardless of whether you are doing this before accepting a translation or after, this is one of the most important parts in the process: [16:23] always review your translations - no one is infallible, and you will, from time to time create translations with typos. [16:24] No matter if you are an experienced translator or not [16:24] (I do them all the time :) [16:24] me2! [16:24] Apart from that, it is always useful to get feedback and foster discussion on translations, as some other translator might have a better proposal, [16:24] +1 [16:24] and these discussions are invaluable to get more translation experience. [16:24] as hannie and hajour were mentioning earlier [16:25] The most useful method is to do peer review: [16:25] let other translators go through your translations, fix mistakes and provide feedback. [16:26] The problem is that you need many good translators for this [16:26] Or (like us) a (sadly) small team [16:26] That's true, but these good translators, when they act as reviewers, can be excellent trainers for new translators [16:27] Ours has five translators with full access at the moment [16:27] OK! so it's easier to communicate and check uot each other [16:27] yeah, but 5 people can do a lot! :-) We're a small team as well [16:27] Ok, onto the next point: [16:27] * Test - [16:28] We've got an awesome and vast community, that can help testing your translations [16:28] so reach out to them [16:28] ask users to test the translations by using the OS, and to provide feedback on local forums or mailing lists [16:29] +1 [16:29] How can you test when the translation is not you published? [16:29] there are two options: [16:30] *you = yet [16:30] during the development period, language pack updates are released often for those applications supported in language packs (most of them) [16:30] so anyone running the development version can test translations relatively early after they've been done [16:30] on stable releases: [16:31] folks can test translations before a language pack is being released by enabling the -proposed repository [16:31] and following the steps on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA [16:32] Question: if someone installs Natty now, can he see the translations for Natty that we recently made on LP? [16:32] or they can use the weekly translations PPA (more on that later), to have fresh translations every week [16:32] hannie, the short answer: yes [16:32] Let me ellaborate on that [16:33] language packs for the development version are being released twice a week [16:33] If you look at the table on https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule [16:33] on the "Language Pack Builds" column [16:33] you see that builds start Tuesday and Friday [16:34] so for Natty that means that language packs are usually available one day later: Wednesday and Saturday [16:34] unless we are close to a milestone [16:34] e.g. Alpha-1, Alpha-3, Beta, etc. [16:35] as before the milestones we put on hold any automatic package uploads [16:35] to make sure nothing uncontrolled slips into the milestone release unnoticed [16:36] Any other questions on testing? [16:36] Just a suggetsion [16:36] sure [16:37] if you are tranlsating something technical [16:37] try to reach people expert into that to get some insight in technical jargon [16:37] thety can help you test and alos you promote the OS [16:38] yeah, that's good advice, thanks michael_k [16:38] Reviewing translations in Launchpad [16:38] ----------------------------------- [16:39] We have recently asked people with knowledge in a specific area to give us their email address [16:39] so that we can ask them questions about that area [16:39] I have put all the information in a database [16:40] oh, cool [16:40] think of maths, electronics, telecommunication etc [16:40] +1 [16:41] dpm, sorry for interrupting [16:41] no worries, as I said, I welcome participation, it makes the session more fun :) [16:41] ok [16:41] ok, back to the topic [16:41] Reviewing translations in Launchpad [16:41] ----------------------------------- [16:42] Launchpad provides review functionality that can be really helpful, you should definitely try it [16:42] it's also EASY! [16:42] Even if you are a translator with full write access in Launchpad [16:42] like what? [16:42] suggestions? [16:43] for example, you can try to use the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox when providing a translation, so it ends up as a suggestion [16:43] that someone else has to review and accept [16:44] If you don't want to click on every message to activate that, you can use the "Reviewer mode" functionality [16:44] Yes, I use this checkbox when I am not sure about something and want to do some research first [16:44] with it, every translation you provide will be added as a suggestion [16:45] as what the option effectively does is to tick the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox for you. [16:46] But even if you don't do that, and translate directly, you can still use suggestions for review [16:47] by asking someone else to do the peer review of your translated strings and leave alternative suggestions for you to consider in those cases where he/she thinks there are better alternatives [16:47] or mistakes [16:47] You know the drill, for good translations QA, review, review, review :) [16:47] whichever your workflow is [16:47] +1 [16:48] Olá [16:49] Hello All [16:49] sorry I have to go now! David thank you for another gr8 session! bb everyone!! [16:49] ola [16:49] ok, so we're approaching the end of the session, and we haven't covered everything yet. So I think we'll just leave the rest for the next session. What do you prefer to do with the remaining time? Shall I go quickly through a couple of remaining points or do you want to do a bit of Q+A? [16:49] ola denisbr [16:49] bye michael_k [16:49] bye michael_k!! [16:50] I do lost the videocast? [16:51] denisbr, there wasn't a videocast this week, but I'm planning one for next week [16:51] Ok, so I'll quickly go through a couple of points: [16:51] denisbr: into which language do you translate? [16:52] Whenever you see a translation mistake in an application: [16:52] Portuguese Brazil [16:52] If you think it's something that your translation team can fix, you should contact them [16:52] Otherwise, you can always report it as a bug on the translations project at: [16:52] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+filebug [16:54] And finally, as I was mentioning it on the testing part earlier on, here's how to activate the weekly language pack PPA [16:54] Using the weekly translations PPA [16:54] --------------------------------- [16:54] These are really useful to test translations on a weekly bases for *stable* releases [16:55] So that you can always run the freshest translations and spot any mistakes and fix them quickly before they reach the wider audience [16:56] The PPA is available here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa [16:56] and you can easily add it by running this on the command line: [16:56] sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-langpack/ppa [16:56] sudo apt-get update [16:56] I love links ;) [16:56] sudo apt-get upgrade [16:57] in case of doubt, you can check out the excellent help on the LP wiki: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware [16:58] So, we didn't cover the workflows, but we did cover a lot of ground. I think we'll leave it here and discuss the rest on another session [16:59] ok, thank you very much, David. See you nest time [16:59] Thanks a lot for everyone's participation, it was a lot of fun :) [16:59] thanks hannie [16:59] *next [16:59] bye, bye [16:59] thanks for the clear class dpm [17:00] thanks hajour [17:00] and see you all on the next training session in a week or two! [17:00] dpm, great session [17:01] thanks serfus, thanks for listening in :) === smspillaz is now known as smspillaz|zzz === _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero === itnet7_ is now known as itnet7