[11:41] <omar_> hi
[16:01] <dpm> ok, so it's time for a translations session :)
[16:02] <dpm> hey all, and welcome to another session in the translations training series
[16:02] <dpm> We'll wait for a couple of minutes for people to come in...
[16:04] <hannie> dpm = David?
[16:04] <dpm> yeah :)
[16:05] <hannie> hi
[16:05] <dpm> hey hannie, nice to see you here :)
[16:05] <dpm> any other translators around?
[16:05] <michael_k> yeah!
[16:05] <dpm> o/ michael_k
[16:05] <dpm> ok, so I guess we can get started
[16:05] <michael_k> aka mk73628
[16:06] <dpm> this session is not moderated, so feel free to interrupt me if you've got any questions
[16:06] <hajour> hai hannie
[16:06] <dpm> Today we're going to talk about translation quality and quality assurance (QA)
[16:07] <dpm> That is, how you can make sure you can provide the best translations for the best Operating System around
[16:07] <dpm> I'll first cover a couple of background topics, then we'll have a look at review workflows
[16:07] <dpm> and finally I'll go through some resources you can use to improve the quality of your translations
[16:08] <dpm> Why is translation quality important
[16:08] <dpm> ------------------------------------
[16:08] <dpm> Most importantly, translations can affect the overall impression users get on the OS.
[16:09] <dpm> Good and consistent translations will provide a good user experience, but mistakes and typos can give a poor impresion to an otherwise awesome Operating System
[16:09] <dpm> Wrong translations can also be misleading:
[16:09] <dpm> just imagine translating "We've accepted your payment" to "We've taken all of your money"
[16:10] <dpm> this might be far-fetched
[16:10] <michael_k> but can make you pm of greece
[16:10] <dpm> hahaha
[16:10] <dpm> but translation mistakes do happen, especially on messages that are ambiguous
[16:10] <dpm> or that lack context
[16:11] <dpm> So we want to make sure our translations are as good as we can make them
[16:11] <dpm> Basic rules for translation quality
[16:11] <dpm> -----------------------------------
[16:11] <hannie> When in doubt, we use the mailing list to discuss a translation problem
[16:12] <dpm> it's really cool when participants actually deliver the session!
[16:12] <dpm> that's really good advice ^
[16:12] <dpm> communication is important
[16:13] <dpm> especially in case of doubt
[16:13] <michael_k> +1
[16:13] <dpm> actually, perhaps rather than me talking, we can make this a bit more participative
[16:13] <hannie> I want to add something, ok?
[16:13] <dpm> sure!
[16:14] <dpm> which tips do you guys have for teams to provide better quality translations?
[16:14] <hannie> After the right decision we put the translation on a list on our wiki
[16:14] <hannie> The list gets longer and longer
[16:15] <dpm> so you're basically building a translation memory or translation guidelines of some sort as you go along, right?
[16:15] <hannie> right, we do it together
[16:15] <hajour> hannie let check translation by people who make a program like that and/or use them from IRC
[16:15] <dpm> ok, cool
[16:16] <dpm> ok, so let me go on with some other basic rules:
[16:16] <dpm> * Check out the context -
[16:16] <dpm> when doing a translation, try to guess what the context is in the application.
[16:16] <dpm> There can be several different translations of the same original English message depending on how it is being used,
[16:17] <dpm> and you will want to make sure you pick the right one.
[16:17] <dpm> Read the translator comments the developer has left for you, if any, as that will be really helpful in understanding where the text comes from.
[16:18] <michael_k> *sighs*
[16:18] <dpm> Try to run the application and locate the message, so you can have a clear picture where and how it is used.
[16:18] <dpm> Alternatively, if you can read source code, there is usually an indication on where the message comes from in the code, and this will generally help determine its exact usage
[16:19] <dpm> what else?
[16:19] <dpm> * Review -
[16:19] <dpm> This should actually be review, review, and review some more :)
[16:19] <hannie> Can we ask writers to give us more information?
[16:19] <hannie> Especially where variables are used
[16:20] <dpm> yeah, definitely. You might have different experiences depending on the developer
[16:20] <dpm> and it might not be feasible to add comments to all strings, but:
[16:20] <hannie> Do you do this through a bug report?
[16:20] <michael_k> I would also suggest checking out similar apps
[16:20] <dpm> yeah, a bug report would help you make your case
[16:20] <dpm> and it's how developers track their work
[16:21] <hannie> I have done it once and guess what:
[16:21] <hannie> I got an answer from Mark Shuttleworth
[16:21] <dpm> :)
[16:21] <michael_k> cool!
[16:21] <dpm> that's the beauty of our community
[16:22] <dpm> ok, any more comments on context, or shall I go on to the review part?
[16:22] <hannie> go ahead
[16:22] <michael_k> yeap!
[16:22] <dpm> ok, so
[16:22] <dpm> * Review -
[16:22] <dpm> regardless of whether you are doing this before accepting a translation or after, this is one of the most important parts in the process:
[16:23] <dpm> always review your translations - no one is infallible, and you will, from time to time create translations with typos.
[16:24] <dpm> No matter if you are an experienced translator or not
[16:24] <dpm> (I do them all the time :)
[16:24] <michael_k> me2!
[16:24] <dpm> Apart from that, it is always useful to get feedback and foster discussion on translations, as some other translator might have a better proposal,
[16:24] <hannie> +1
[16:24] <dpm> and these discussions are invaluable to get more translation experience.
[16:24] <dpm> as hannie and hajour were mentioning earlier
[16:25] <dpm> The most useful method is to do peer review:
[16:25] <dpm> let other translators go through your translations, fix mistakes and provide feedback.
[16:26] <hannie> The problem is that you need many good translators for this
[16:26] <michael_k> Or (like us)  a (sadly) small team
[16:26] <dpm> That's true, but these good translators, when they act as reviewers, can be excellent trainers for new translators
[16:27] <hannie> Ours has five translators with full access at the moment
[16:27] <michael_k> OK! so it's easier to communicate and check uot each other
[16:27] <dpm> yeah, but 5 people can do a lot! :-) We're a small team as well
[16:27] <dpm> Ok, onto the next point:
[16:27] <dpm> * Test -
[16:28] <dpm> We've got an awesome and vast community, that can help testing your translations
[16:28] <dpm> so reach out to them
[16:28] <dpm> ask users to test the translations by using the OS, and to provide feedback on local forums or mailing lists
[16:29] <michael_k> +1
[16:29] <hannie> How can you test when the translation is not you published?
[16:29] <dpm> there are two options:
[16:30] <hannie> *you = yet
[16:30] <dpm> during the development period, language pack updates are released often for those applications supported in language packs (most of them)
[16:30] <dpm> so anyone running the development version can test translations relatively early after they've been done
[16:30] <dpm> on stable releases:
[16:31] <dpm> folks can test translations before a language pack is being released by enabling the -proposed repository
[16:31] <dpm> and following the steps on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA
[16:32] <hannie> Question: if someone installs Natty now, can he see the translations for Natty that we recently made on LP?
[16:32] <dpm> or they can use the weekly translations PPA (more on that later), to have fresh translations every week
[16:32] <dpm> hannie, the short answer: yes
[16:32] <dpm> Let me ellaborate on that
[16:33] <dpm> language packs for the development version are being released twice a week
[16:33] <dpm> If you look at the table on https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
[16:33] <dpm> on the "Language Pack Builds" column
[16:33] <dpm> you see that builds start Tuesday and Friday
[16:34] <dpm> so for Natty that means that language packs are usually available one day later: Wednesday and Saturday
[16:34] <dpm> unless we are close to a milestone
[16:34] <dpm> e.g. Alpha-1, Alpha-3, Beta, etc.
[16:35] <dpm> as before the milestones we put on hold any automatic package uploads
[16:35] <dpm> to make sure nothing uncontrolled slips into the milestone release unnoticed
[16:36] <dpm> Any other questions on testing?
[16:36] <michael_k> Just a suggetsion
[16:36] <dpm> sure
[16:37] <michael_k> if you are tranlsating something technical
[16:37] <michael_k> try to reach people expert into that to get some insight in technical jargon
[16:37] <michael_k> thety can help you test and alos you promote the OS
[16:38] <dpm> yeah, that's good advice, thanks michael_k
[16:38] <dpm> Reviewing translations in Launchpad
[16:38] <dpm> -----------------------------------
[16:39] <hannie> We have recently asked people with knowledge in a specific area to give us their email address
[16:39] <hannie> so that we can ask them questions about that area
[16:39] <hannie> I have put all the information in a database
[16:40] <dpm> oh, cool
[16:40] <hannie> think of maths, electronics, telecommunication etc
[16:40] <michael_k> +1
[16:41] <hannie> dpm, sorry for interrupting
[16:41] <dpm> no worries, as I said, I welcome participation, it makes the session more fun :)
[16:41] <hannie> ok
[16:41] <dpm> ok, back to the topic
[16:41] <dpm>  Reviewing translations in Launchpad
[16:41] <dpm>  -----------------------------------
[16:42] <dpm> Launchpad provides review functionality that can be really helpful, you should definitely try it
[16:42] <michael_k> it's also EASY!
[16:42] <dpm> Even if you are a translator with full write access in Launchpad
[16:42] <hannie> like what?
[16:42] <hannie> suggestions?
[16:43] <dpm> for example, you can try to use the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox when providing a translation, so it ends up as a suggestion
[16:43] <dpm> that someone else has to review and accept
[16:44] <dpm> If you don't want to click on every message to activate that, you can use the "Reviewer mode" functionality
[16:44] <hannie> Yes, I use this checkbox when I am not sure about something and want to do some research first
[16:44] <dpm> with it, every translation you provide will be added as a suggestion
[16:45] <dpm> as what the option effectively does is to tick the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox for you.
[16:46] <dpm> But even if you don't do that, and translate directly, you can still use suggestions for review
[16:47] <dpm> by asking someone else to do the peer review of your translated strings and leave alternative suggestions for you to consider in those cases where he/she thinks there are better alternatives
[16:47] <dpm> or mistakes
[16:47] <dpm> You know the drill, for good translations QA, review, review, review :)
[16:47] <dpm> whichever your workflow is
[16:47] <michael_k> +1
[16:48] <denisbr> Olá
[16:49] <denisbr> Hello All
[16:49] <michael_k> sorry I have to go now! David thank you for another gr8 session! bb everyone!!
[16:49] <hannie> ola
[16:49] <dpm> ok, so we're approaching the end of the session, and we haven't covered everything yet. So I think we'll just leave the rest for the next session. What do you prefer to do with the remaining time? Shall I go quickly through a couple of remaining points or do you want to do a bit of Q+A?
[16:49] <dpm> ola denisbr
[16:49] <hannie> bye michael_k
[16:49] <dpm> bye michael_k!!
[16:50] <denisbr> I do lost the videocast?
[16:51] <dpm> denisbr, there wasn't a videocast this week, but I'm planning one for next week
[16:51] <dpm> Ok, so I'll quickly go through a couple of points:
[16:51] <hannie> denisbr: into which language do you translate?
[16:52] <dpm> Whenever you see a translation mistake in an application:
[16:52] <denisbr> Portuguese Brazil
[16:52] <dpm> If you think it's something that your translation team can fix, you should contact them
[16:52] <dpm> Otherwise, you can always report it as a bug on the translations project at:
[16:52] <dpm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+filebug
[16:54] <dpm> And finally, as I was mentioning it on the testing part earlier on, here's how to activate the weekly language pack PPA
[16:54] <dpm> Using the weekly translations PPA
[16:54] <dpm> ---------------------------------
[16:54] <dpm> These are really useful to test translations on a weekly bases for *stable* releases
[16:55] <dpm> So that you can always run the freshest translations and spot any mistakes and fix them quickly before they reach the wider audience
[16:56] <dpm> The PPA is available here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa
[16:56] <dpm> and you can easily add it by running this on the command line:
[16:56] <dpm>     sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-langpack/ppa
[16:56] <dpm>     sudo apt-get update
[16:56] <hannie> I love links ;)
[16:56] <dpm>     sudo apt-get upgrade
[16:57] <dpm> in case of doubt, you can check out the excellent help on the LP wiki: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware
[16:58] <dpm> So, we didn't cover the workflows, but we did cover a lot of ground. I think we'll leave it here and discuss the rest on another session
[16:59] <hannie> ok, thank you very much, David. See you nest time
[16:59] <dpm> Thanks a lot for everyone's participation, it was a lot of fun :)
[16:59] <dpm> thanks hannie
[16:59] <hannie> *next
[16:59] <hannie> bye, bye
[16:59] <hajour> thanks for the clear class dpm
[17:00] <dpm> thanks hajour
[17:00] <dpm> and see you all on the next training session in a week or two!
[17:00] <serfus> dpm, great session
[17:01] <dpm> thanks serfus, thanks for listening in :)