[00:00] <hamitron> I am just hoping nothing has happened to other comps on this network
[00:00] <hamitron> :(
[00:01] <hamitron> not in the mood for major hassle
[00:01] <dwatkins> hamitron: does it have malware bytes, threatfire and avg?
[00:01] <hamitron> it has AVG and something else
[00:02] <hamitron> came with the packard bell software
[00:03] <hamitron> tempted to slam MS Security Essentials on next time
[00:03] <popey> thats what I run on my XP VM
[00:03] <hamitron> I've read it is good
[00:03] <hamitron> and it seems reasonably light
[00:05] <directhex> hamitron, i have a simple rule: i'll support windows if the software stack i install post-format isn't adjusted
[00:06] <shauno> out of the blue; I think it'd be better not to have "that tick-box" at all.  it should offer to install if/when it's required  (and so should the samba preference thingie)
[00:06] <directhex> and no support for dumb idiots
[00:06] <hamitron> directhex: hhaha
[00:06] <hamitron> it is hard with family :/
[00:06] <directhex> any email or IM infection is unsupported
[00:06] <popey> shauno: i tend to agree
[00:06] <directhex> to regain support, it's format time
[00:07] <directhex> hamitron, they'll never learn if you keep wiping their bums
[00:07] <shauno> I find family easier, because I can be just as demanding as they can :)
[00:07] <hamitron> directhex: best bit is, she is not sure she kept the recovery media I burnt for her when she got the thing
[00:07] <directhex> hamitron, then wipe the disk, and give her a link to the microsoft store
[00:08] <directhex> it's only £150 for windows!
[00:08] <hamitron> hehe
[00:08] <hamitron> can i use windows 7 retail dvd for oem install?
[00:08] <directhex> no
[00:08] <hamitron> fs :/
[00:09] <directhex> well... perhaps
[00:09] <directhex> technically i think you can, but not for OEM licenses from major manufacturers
[00:09] <directhex> only OEM licenses you buy yourself from places like scan
[00:09] <hamitron> I don't mind having to buy something, but the worry of what hoops I must jump through annoys me
[00:09] <directhex> buy online, burn iso!
[00:12] <HazRPG> Woo!
[00:12] <HazRPG> New rack
[00:12] <HazRPG> :)
[00:12] <HazRPG> also, hi all :)
[00:12] <shauno> ?
[00:12] <HazRPG> shauno: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ogr7XDAuntqcOkEtcg5WYQ?feat=directlink
[00:13] <shauno> that's not a rack!
[00:13] <HazRPG> shauno: its not the type of rack you were expecting... no lol
[00:14] <HazRPG> hmm, I should really figure out how to change that avatar on that...
[00:14] <HazRPG> that's my ex-missus
[00:14] <HazRPG> that's on that
[00:14]  * shauno goes back
[00:15] <shauno> I'm such a crap stalker.  didn't even notice that was there
[00:16] <directhex> i should take some photos with my amazing new futuristic camera of the future!
[00:17] <HazRPG> directhex: you should!
[00:17] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, wouldn't bother me normally - but it's a picture of both me and her, and since me and her don't exist anymore... sort of inappropriate
[00:17] <HazRPG> esp. since she dumped me in 2009 lol
[00:18] <hamitron> too much ubuntu and irc?.... ;)
[00:19] <HazRPG> barely use my web picasa :P
[00:20] <HazRPG> find it odd how my google avatar, isn't the same as my picasa avatar - I always assumed it was
[00:20] <hamitron> anyone here use a 20 pin PSU with 24 pin motherboards?
[00:20] <HazRPG> considering they're both google...
[00:20] <HazRPG> hamitron: I have, didn't work lol
[00:20] <hamitron> unstable?
[00:20] <HazRPG> pretty much
[00:21] <hamitron> k, my motherboard manuals say I can
[00:21] <HazRPG> with the system bare... it sort of worked, but after it passes POST it just sort of doesn't know what to do - guessing from the lack of power
[00:21] <hamitron> but it is either that, or faulty
[00:21] <HazRPG> heh, mine said it had to be 24 pin...
[00:21] <hamitron> time for a bodge job then
[00:22] <HazRPG> so if yours says it can work with 20 instead of 24... it might be ok :)
[00:22] <hamitron> they boot
[00:22] <hamitron> and work ok
[00:22] <hamitron> but then freeze
[00:22] <dwatkins> sounds like the psu isn't delivering enough power
[00:22] <dwatkins> or that there are extra volt lines in the additional 4 pins which aren't suplied
[00:23] <HazRPG> yeah, that's what mine did when I was using just 20 instead of 24
[00:23] <dwatkins> I've had PSUs with a detachable extra 4-pin section on the motherboard connector
[00:23] <hamitron> I have a blown up PSU with a 24 pin connector....
[00:23] <shauno> a bit slow because it needed a little trimming, but http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/arack.jpg  is the rack they dumped on my desk at work :(
[00:23] <hamitron> may have to use that on this psu
[00:23] <hamitron> :)
[00:24] <hamitron> adapter on ebay is only few quid
[00:24] <shauno> not in a closet.  right close enough to keep me toes toasty
[00:24] <hamitron> but I'd have to wait for it to arrive
[00:24] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, pretty big considering it was just dump there...
[00:24] <HazRPG> even plugged it in and everything!
[00:24] <hamitron> :)
[00:25] <shauno> I've tried to move it .. I'm too little
[00:25] <dwatkins> I'd like a mini rack to put on my desk.
[00:25] <HazRPG> shauno: is that your desk that's next to it?
[00:25] <HazRPG> also... little?
[00:26] <shauno> little .. it's got a 20k ups in it.  it's not light
[00:26] <HazRPG> my odds of guess work says that things about 2 to 2.5 metres
[00:27] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, so when you say little you mean your not Arnold when it comes to muscles
[00:27] <shauno> bingo
[00:27] <HazRPG> you like using that word don't you :P
[00:27] <shauno> I'm not a midget, but I am a very stereotypical scrawny, pasty-faced nerd
[00:28] <HazRPG> same
[00:28] <HazRPG> *raises drink to that*
[00:28] <shauno> another out of the blue; yes, the release names are getting daft.  I had to resort to the oed app on my phone to learn how to pronounce eric thingie
[00:29] <hamitron> what is the 6 pin connector on the psu?
[00:30] <HazRPG> GPU usually
[00:30] <directhex> 6-pin is for low-end GPUs
[00:30] <HazRPG> mainly for power-hungry graphics cards
[00:30] <hamitron> 1x6 pins
[00:30] <directhex> it's a 75W power connector
[00:30] <directhex> low-end
[00:30] <HazRPG> directhex: low-end?
[00:30] <hamitron> isn't gpu 2x3?
[00:30] <directhex> HazRPG, well, there's the 6+2 pin version for hungrier cards
[00:31] <directhex> hamitron, wait, you have a 1x6 connector? white plug?
[00:31] <HazRPG> directhex: ah, that's probably the one I'm thinking of
[00:31] <directhex> sounds like a P6. that's OLD.
[00:31] <HazRPG> hamitron: must be for floppies
[00:31] <shauno> floppy is 4 pin
[00:31] <directhex> HazRPG, and meaty cards use 2 of them, either a 6+2 and a 6, or two 6+2
[00:32] <shauno> 2x3 is the pci-e "moar juice plz"
[00:32] <hamitron> for old P4 motherboard
[00:32] <hamitron> "6-pin AUX connector"
[00:32] <HazRPG> heh, haven't seen any that really needed more than 6+2's
[00:32] <directhex> hamitron, two orange wires in it?
[00:32] <hamitron> yeh
[00:32] <directhex> yeah, sounds like AUX... but i've never seen it used
[00:32] <hamitron> if I cut that off, just need a source a 12V
[00:33] <directhex> perhaps for the old socket 423 p4's?
[00:33] <hamitron> for the 20 to 24 pin conversion
[00:33] <hamitron> @_
[00:33] <HazRPG> correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some 5" card reader bays use those 6 pins too
[00:33] <hamitron> :)
[00:33] <hamitron> well
[00:33] <hamitron> I'll cut it off, can't always put it back on later
[00:33] <shauno> ty google overlords; http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/cputopiaonline/mp3atx40.jpg
[00:34] <hamitron> can*
[00:34] <directhex> HazRPG, never seen that. card readers usually use floppy connector
[00:34] <shauno> I've never had a card reader that needed anything more than fw & usb headers
[00:35] <directhex> or that, sure. i hate it when they use up a usb header on the mobo through, i end up with some dead usb ports on the case
[00:36] <HazRPG> shauno, directhex: that's why these are useful: http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=338
[00:37] <shauno> nah.  you just buy mobo with a stupid amount of headers
[00:37] <shauno> having a cable coming out of an internal bay and into an external plug is just messy
[00:38] <HazRPG> heh, my sister had a case that had 3.5mm jacks for audio that you had to loop round to the back from the inside
[00:38] <directhex> i saw that on some school pcs in the 90s
[00:38] <HazRPG> even came with a metal strip for feeding the wire through
[00:39] <shauno> I'm just gonna drop an a-bomb and say I'm glad apple think about that before they build the machine :p
[00:39] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, it's the reason I always build my machines with expansion in mind
[00:39] <hamitron> apple bomb? :(
[00:40] <shauno> (yes, I'm aware that just ends up meaning you have 2 usb plugs and you like it.)
[00:40] <shauno> HazRPG: I don't.  I buy machines with resale in mind
[00:41] <shauno> I don't plan a purchase around something I'd want to use in 3 years time.  I plan a purchase around something I'll be able to get rid of in 3 years time
[00:41] <hamitron> I buy mine with the price in mind....
[00:41] <hamitron> and hoard them all for many years
[00:41] <hamitron> :)
[00:41] <shauno> I think it's still keeping price in mind, it's just the new car vs old car thing
[00:41] <hamitron> new car all the way!
[00:41] <hamitron> ;D
[00:42] <HazRPG> lol
[00:42] <hamitron> unless you go classic ofc
[00:42] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, see I was talking about the case :P
[00:42] <shauno> apple laptops do resell well.  stupidly well.  I've seen mbp sell for more in "spares and repairs" condition than a working laptop should be worth
[00:42] <HazRPG> my case can hold up to 5 CD/DVD/etc drives, and 2 floppy drives
[00:43] <HazRPG> it can also hold up to 6 hard drives
[00:43] <shauno> so it means half - 2/3 of my next laptop is paid for
[00:43] <hamitron> I was too tight to get a dvd drive for my last build :/
[00:44] <hamitron> got a 2nd hand case with not enough blanking plates, so they don't all line up
[00:44] <HazRPG> has two huge fans, plus space for another 1 (or 2 small ones)
[00:44] <hamitron> fans? ;)
[00:44] <HazRPG> yeah
[00:44] <hamitron> is it right my i3 idles at 9 C?
[00:45] <HazRPG> hmm, should be more like 20'C
[00:45] <HazRPG> but I could be wrong
[00:45] <hamitron> cooler than my c2d
[00:46] <hamitron> it idles around 14
[00:46] <directhex> it's not at 9C
[00:46] <directhex> it's not possible for it to be lower than room temperature
[00:46] <shauno> I never did figure out what to put in my dvd bay, after someone's darling fork() discovered the slot-loader would still spin a disk up with a surprising amount of coinage in there
[00:46] <hamitron> it is prob about room temp at a guess
[00:46] <directhex> your room isn't at 9°C
[00:47] <hamitron> 1 sec
[00:47] <hamitron> around 10C
[00:47] <hamitron> give or take a few C
[00:48] <shauno> but you got a stellar deal on the heating?
[00:48] <hamitron> no heating
[00:48] <hamitron> ;)
[00:48] <HazRPG> . . . . . .
[00:48] <HazRPG> I think this is where years of living in a desert has killed me
[00:48] <shauno> am I wrong in thinking you're up north with the scary hairy people?
[00:48] <HazRPG> I find it cold when it gets less than 20'c
[00:49] <hamitron> scarey hairy? :|
[00:49] <directhex> 16°C is the legal minimum for a work room under health & safety laws
[00:49] <hamitron> what has law got to do with it?
[00:49] <directhex> a cold machine room is around the 17°C mark
[00:50] <shauno> what's law but a second-hand emotion ...
[00:50] <ali1234> there is no legal requirement for minimum temperature
[00:50]  * screen-x cools machine room to 20 degrees, which feels arctic in the summer
[00:51] <HazRPG> I was use to room temp of about 40-50'c at one point :P
[00:51]  * hamitron just has it how it is, cold in winter and warmer in summer
[00:51] <hamitron> works for me
[00:51] <directhex> you're putting your health at serious risk if you sit in a room which is too cold
[00:51] <HazRPG> hamitron: body temp is 37'c dude... just saying
[00:52] <hamitron> directhex: in what way?
[00:52] <HazRPG> ~37'c*
[00:52] <Azelphur> 37c for a room is way too hot :o
[00:52] <ali1234> 10 degrees isn't particularly hazardous as long as you are not also starving or 80 or something
[00:52] <Azelphur> I'd suffer at 37c lol
[00:52] <HazRPG> since I think 36-38 is normal (could be wrong)
[00:52] <Azelphur> I'm comfortable at 20ish
[00:52] <hamitron> I ahve cake to keep me warm ;)
[00:52] <directhex> normal for a room is ~21°C
[00:52] <shauno> I was always told 36, but that's irrelevant to room temp.  we're warm-blooded for a reason
[00:52] <Pendulum> win 41
[00:52] <Pendulum> fail :(
[00:53] <hamitron> I tend to get headache when temp is upto mid 20s
[00:53] <hamitron> gimme lower temps any day
[00:53] <HazRPG> hamitron: you'd probably suffer in saudi then :P
[00:53] <hamitron> I suffer in England ;/
[00:53] <HazRPG> room temp was 40-50'c if no A/C was on.
[00:54] <hamitron> :\
[00:54] <hamitron> I'd be useless
[00:54] <ali1234> i lived in a house with no heating or hot water for 3 months in winter in manchester
[00:54] <hamitron> even more so than now....
[00:54] <HazRPG> A/C's would normally only cool down to about 26'c... but that would feel artic almost!
[00:54] <ali1234> at the same time i worked in an office which also had no heating or hot water
[00:54] <HazRPG> I use to set mine to around 28-30
[00:54] <hamitron> ali1234: you are still alive?
[00:54] <shauno> ditto.  40+ is nuts.  I was pretty much useless when outside temps hit 30
[00:54] <ali1234> sure
[00:54]  * screen-x should be in bed
[00:55] <ali1234> i just drank lots of tea
[00:55] <HazRPG> shauno: you slowly get use to it funnily :P
[00:55] <hamitron> I ahve 4 wool jumpers on I suppose
[00:55] <hamitron> that helps keep warm
[00:55] <shauno> over 5 years, summer in the states knocked me out every year
[00:56] <HazRPG> been back in the UK for around 8 years now... and I still haven't adjusted to the cold properly yet :/
[00:56] <shauno> winter's easy.  you can wear more, you can move more.  80-90F is inhumane
[00:56] <hamitron> exactly shauno :)
[00:56] <shauno> I wouldn't keep home at 10º tho
[00:56] <hamitron> parts of the house are warmer
[00:56]  * HazRPG googles to find out what 80-90'F is...
[00:57] <shauno> 80's about 25
[00:57] <hamitron> can't heat all rooms
[00:57] <shauno> 90's not going to be far off
[00:57] <shauno> 10º would stall my yeasties
[00:57] <HazRPG> that sounds wrong ...
[00:57] <shauno> it's very wrong.  stalled yeasties make no alcohol!
[00:58] <HazRPG> ah
[00:58] <HazRPG> that kind of yeasties ;)
[00:58] <hamitron> my wine is in the kitchen
[00:58] <hamitron> :)
[00:58] <hamitron> got an aga there to keep it warm
[00:58] <HazRPG> ... isn't it illegal to make your own here??
[00:58] <shauno> it's bad enough that I have to give them a little immersion widget when we get snaps.  I don't want to know what'd cost to do that all winter
[00:58] <directhex> more than 24°C is uncomfortable for most people
[00:59] <ali1234> HazRPG: only distilling
[00:59] <shauno> no.  illegal to sell your own.  there's probably a volume limit too
[00:59] <hamitron> volume limit? :(
[00:59] <shauno> (eg, I believe the US is 200 gals per adult per year.  I completely expect the UK to have something similar)
[01:00] <hamitron> so 54 demi-johns is maybe bad?
[01:00] <hamitron> ah, be ok then
[01:00] <hamitron> :)
[01:00] <shauno> it may not do, as the US can be a bit funky about alcohol.  but as a rule of thumb their law tends to be rooted in ours
[01:01] <shauno> (oddly less versed in UK law because I never lived there as an adult :)
[01:02] <shauno> they used to sell beer kits in boots tho, so I know it's not illegal :)
[01:03] <hamitron> unlimited in the UK according to wikipedia
[01:03] <HazRPG> :P
[01:03] <hamitron> for personal use
[01:03] <hamitron> sorted
[01:03] <hamitron> :)
[01:03] <HazRPG> I knew I was right when me and my friend were arguing it the other night... made me believe it was illegal :/
[01:04] <shauno> ah, germany does the 200L thing too.  funky.
[01:04] <shauno> them of all people  </stereotype>
[01:05] <hamitron> they prob have a fancy long form to fill in too
[01:05] <hamitron> ;)
[01:06] <shauno> but yeah.  my office stays 18-20º so they don't crash
[01:06] <hamitron> crash? :/
[01:07] <HazRPG> computers play funny at too low and too high a temperature... if I recall
[01:07] <HazRPG> or any electronics for that matter
[01:07] <HazRPG> but unsure of the numbers
[01:07] <shauno> high temps sure.  cold temps is pretty harmless
[01:07] <hamitron> I had a comp that was a little unstable this winter
[01:07] <hamitron> it has frost on the case
[01:07] <hamitron> had*
[01:07] <shauno> they should be above the dew point so you don't get a condensate risk
[01:08] <shauno> past that, they'll keep themselves warm
[01:08] <HazRPG> cold temps make it harder for electricity to flow through
[01:08] <hamitron> best solution is never turn them off
[01:08] <hamitron> ;)
[01:08] <hamitron> my comps are my heating
[01:08] <ali1234> in germany even caffeinated soft drinks are controlled
[01:08] <HazRPG> wow
[01:08] <hamitron> how much coffee you allowed?
[01:09] <ali1234> i dunno
[01:09] <shauno> I had a friend who described that as 'dark' sodas.  made it a bit confusing
[01:09] <ali1234> it only applies to kids afaik
[01:09] <ali1234> kids don't generally drink coffee
[01:09] <hamitron> now I am even more glad we won the war
[01:09] <hamitron> ;/
[01:09] <hamitron> I'd be totally different
[01:10] <shauno> ja, wurden sie
[01:10] <hamitron> I'd know what that means also no doubt
[01:10] <hamitron> instead I am inferier and don't
[01:10] <hamitron> :/
[01:10] <shauno> :)  "yes, you would"  (someone had to )
[01:11] <hamitron> hehe
[01:11] <shauno> one day they'll figure out how to drop google translate into our ear
[01:11] <screen-x> shauno: babelfish
[01:12] <shauno> I know, but AV died
[01:12] <screen-x> nooo, a real google powered in ear babelfish :)
[01:12] <shauno> yeah, I know
[01:13] <shauno> preferred it with google because it's a little less obvious that way :)
[01:13] <shauno> even if altavista did snag the primo name first
[01:13] <screen-x> plus google translate works rather well
[01:14] <hamitron> I just don't read anything in anything other than English
[01:14] <ali1234> real time translation is impossible
[01:14] <ali1234> unless, like the babel fish, it can actually read the mind of the speaker
[01:14] <shauno> you can get pretty damned close tho
[01:14] <ali1234> otherwise it will always have to wait until they finish speaking to get the necessary context
[01:15] <shauno> like the translators you see babbling away at the UN
[01:15] <shauno> I'd rather a sentence or two of lag, than be the stereotypical englishman stood there going "sorry?"
[01:16] <shauno> say it again, a bit slower, and a bit more .. english?
[01:16] <HazRPG> indeed
[01:16] <HazRPG> any translation, is better than no translation...
[01:16] <shauno> or excitedly yelling out 'si' at the end of a sentence because you remember that one :)
[01:16] <hamitron> easier if everyone just spoke English
[01:16] <hamitron> ;/
[01:17] <hamitron> I never leave England anyway
[01:17] <shauno> I had fantastic fun trying to buy train tickets in spain, with a total vocabulary of four words.  the name of the city I was trying to get to, 'yes', 'monkey' and 'big chicken'
[01:18] <hamitron> hehe
[01:18] <shauno> a translation via a 3yo with an etchasketch would have done better than I did
[01:18] <hamitron> lesson to be learnt... learn the language of where you go
[01:19] <shauno> (on the upside, I apparently bought first-class tickets)
[01:19] <hamitron> nice :D
[01:19] <shauno> didn't want first class tickets, but we got there
[01:19] <hamitron> in style too ;)
[01:20] <shauno> strange country tho.  I thought the highspeed trains were rather snazzy.  and proceeded to receive a telling-off for trying to take a picture of one
[01:20] <directhex> TERRORIST
[01:20] <shauno> tourist, but I can see how easily it's lost in translation :(
[01:21] <screen-x> shauno: mono madrid pollo sí grandes, I'm not sure why they didnt understand you.
[01:21] <directhex> el pollo diablo!
[01:21] <shauno> see, that reads like something my brother would come up with.
[01:21] <shauno> "oi, monkey!"
[01:21] <shauno> an evil chicken?
[01:21] <hamitron> diablo?
[01:22] <shauno> polo grande is from a warlock quest in WoW :/
[01:22] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E28WrhpTzQA
[01:22] <shauno> si you learnt from manuel
[01:22] <shauno> and monkey is obviously the first non-curse word you want to learn in any language
[01:24] <shauno> thing is, I'd love to learn a useful language.  but we don't go to the same country repeatedly.
[01:24] <shauno> europe has so damned many of them, and they're all much of muchness as far as value goes
[01:25] <hamitron> I wouldn't mind learning German
[01:25] <shauno> dutch drives me nuts because if you can get them to talk slow enough, it almost sounds like old-school english
[01:25] <shauno> and then they transcribe this to paper in a manner which completely hides this
[01:25] <hamitron> come across a few engineering reports in German I wanted to read
[01:26] <hamitron> anyways
[01:26] <hamitron> I need sleep
[01:26] <shauno> icelandic is the same.  it sounds like english, the same way rural geordie sounds like english.  and then loses it when they write it down
[01:27] <hamitron> :)
[01:27] <hamitron> laters o/
[01:27] <shauno> night
[01:28] <HazRPG> nite..
[01:28] <HazRPG> shauno: haha, love the 4 words you knew in spanish
[01:29] <shauno> dutch is proper nuts tho.  like the word 'free', as in 'smoke-free'.  is pronounced, as near as makes no difference, as 'free'.  and then written as something like vrij, just to confuse me
[01:29] <dutchie> that makes sense to me
[01:30] <dutchie> not being even slightly dutch :)
[01:30] <HazRPG> I can just imagine you saying "mono, mono, train to <place>... pollo grande!"
[01:30] <shauno> haz, much less amusing than that
[01:30] <shauno> I just kept repeating zaragoza, si? and adding more money until he shut up and gave me tickets
[01:31] <screen-x> shauno: good tactic :)
[01:31] <HazRPG> haha
[01:31] <HazRPG> nice one
[01:31] <shauno> it was hugely embarassing to be reduced to a drooling idiot
[01:31] <HazRPG> I always make it habit to translate some phrases into my drafts on my phone (or a notepad)... and just say them out as best as I can :)
[01:31] <shauno> amsterdam to paris was fantastic.  the lady at centraal spoke english better than most english I know :)
[01:33] <HazRPG> see this is why I always feel bad for people who try to speak english but can't get their message across and sounding stupid at the same time... because I know what its like to be on the other end of it
[01:33] <shauno> that was the first time I ever took a train across a border  (discounting scotland).  I was expecting major hassle.
[01:33] <shauno> when she answered "what time?" I coulda hugged her
[01:33] <HazRPG> I can speak arabic pretty well, but when trying to have a normal grown-up conversation - I must sound like a 6 year old
[01:34] <HazRPG> shauno: :P
[01:34] <HazRPG> I swear my family in egypt must think I'm thick as pig shit lol
[01:34] <shauno> heh
[01:35] <shauno> nah, "the slow one" is just a pet name
[01:36] <shauno> I think what changed my mind on languages was seeing the italians
[01:36] <shauno> most italians over 35-40 I came across, treat italian the same we do english.  "no, I'll speak my language and you'll learn it"
[01:36] <HazRPG> they'll say something like "I just saw something on the news, it was great..." and continue to quote from the news... and all I understood from it were "government ... price ... people ... angry ... street ... money ..."
[01:37] <shauno> which I found incredibly obnoxious, until I realised they were doing exactly the same to me, as we stereotypically do to foreigners
[01:37] <HazRPG> to which I always say "oh that sounds interesting", and then they shout at me for agreeing with it >_<
[01:37] <HazRPG> heh, yeah I know what you mean
[01:38] <HazRPG> although the first thing I always do before/while there is buy a language book to at least sound like I know what they're talking about
[01:38] <shauno> I don't :/
[01:39] <HazRPG> best one was the tagalog book I bought
[01:39] <shauno> I try to pull the language apart and figure out how it devolves back into PIE
[01:39] <shauno> it keeps my brain wonderfully entertained, but makes me completely useless
[01:39] <HazRPG> because it had phrases you should say, phrases they'll probably respond with, and the best way to answer those ... fantastic book!
[01:40] <HazRPG> hehe :p
[01:40] <shauno> (it's also the best evidence I have that finns are aliens)
[01:40] <HazRPG> haha do too
[01:40] <HazRPG> tell*
[01:40] <HazRPG> don't know where I got too from tell >_<
[01:40] <shauno> their language is just insane
[01:41] <HazRPG> doesn't devolve back to PIE?
[01:41] <shauno> it doesn't seem to compare to anything, at all
[01:41] <shauno> most closely hungarian, but that's because they went 'n beat them around the head a few times.
[01:41] <shauno> but after that .. it's a black sheep
[01:42] <HazRPG> hmm, I always found some african languages amuse me... with the clicks they have
[01:42] <shauno> you can atleast see that they've taken a completely different path tho
[01:43] <HazRPG> true
[01:43] <shauno> like most the asian languages sound somewhat similar.  european divvies up into germanic/romantic/slavic/nordic, but they all share common roots
[01:43] <HazRPG> I would love to meet the first person who decided to talk words... would amuse me no ends
[01:43] <shauno> african languages don't sound anymore european than asian ones.  which makes total sense
[01:44] <HazRPG> I guess
[01:44] <shauno> but having finnish stuck up there sounding like no other european root is insane
[01:45] <shauno> if someone came up with a plausible theory that aliens put them there to keep russia out, I'd probably believe it.
[01:46] <shauno> not saying it's a bad thing, just fascinating
[01:46] <HazRPG> indeed
[01:46] <shauno> the same way finding huge rocks in the middle of nowhere must have been before they had any theory behind glaciers at all
[01:47] <HazRPG> tagalog: oo (pronounced oh-oh), means yes
[01:47] <HazRPG> that confused me
[01:47] <HazRPG> and hindi means no
[01:48] <shauno> infact, that's a very good way to describe it.  their language feels like a boulder that's been dropped hundreds of miles from home.  but I have no idea what the glacier is analogous to
[01:48] <HazRPG> and mabuti (ma-boot-tay) is: fine
[01:48] <shauno> easy there tiger
[01:48] <HazRPG> just some odd words I remember from my trip to the philippines
[01:49] <HazRPG> every time I heard "mabuti" from lasses... I kept thinking they were saying "does my ass look big in this?"
[01:49] <shauno> I'm meant to be spending 6-8 weeks in thailand at some stage in the next year or two.  dreading that from a language point of view
[01:50] <HazRPG> heh
[01:50] <shauno> (nowhere near a city either, so it's tough to make assumptions)
[01:51] <shauno> my mandarin is pretty much limited to "excuse me, do you speak english"
[01:51] <shauno> and that's the closest to any asian language I've touched at all
[01:52] <HazRPG> hehe, thai sounds awesome though
[01:52] <HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WotlKEogxm4 <== this might come in handy for you
[01:53] <shauno> and that's only because we've got a customer in wuhan, who tends to answer the phone with a torrent of noise
[01:53] <HazRPG> apparently no, if you're a man... is "mai krab" and sounds like your saying "mine craft"
[01:53] <shauno> awesome
[01:54] <HazRPG> so you now know how to say no ;)
[01:54] <shauno> that was a fun one.  china doesn't directly have a 'yes' and 'no'
[01:54] <HazRPG> cos I'm sure that'll stick easily in your mind :P
[01:54] <HazRPG> yeah I know, its random
[01:54] <shauno> do you ... received I do, or I do not
[01:55] <HazRPG> there's an african language, can't remember which, that doesn't have a translation for the word "depression" because they don't understand the concept of it ... which makes you really think
[01:55] <shauno> very rarely a straight shi / bu shi  (yes or  not yes)
[01:56] <shauno> there is no no.  there's a negative yes   lol
[01:56] <HazRPG> heh, its not shocking though, in egypt and in saudi - most will respond "inshallah" which basically means "god willing" but translates more like "maybe..." in its usage
[01:57] <shauno> the irish do that, sorta
[01:57] <shauno> but then the english do, it's just devolved
[01:57] <HazRPG> yeah I've noticed :p
[01:57] <HazRPG> what the use of the word "god willing"
[01:57] <HazRPG> ?*
[01:57] <shauno> not that one, but I'm pretty sure that's where goodbye comes from
[01:58] <ali1234> "all being well"
[01:58] <shauno> 1590s, from godbwye (1570s), itself a contraction of God be with ye (late 14c.),
[01:58] <ali1234> as in "i'll see you next week, all being well"
[01:59] <shauno> I was thinking more directly pious
[01:59] <HazRPG> language is a funny thing ain't it
[02:00] <shauno> as the irish have a 'dia duit' is a format greeting, and I don't know of a non-religious equivalent
[02:00] <ali1234> americans use "god willing" in exactly that way too
[02:00] <ali1234> maybe not quite the same
[02:01] <shauno> goodbye being 'god be with ye' immediately sounds like something that'd translate into arabic very easily
[02:02] <HazRPG> we have "masalama" in egypt, which just means bye
[02:03] <HazRPG> well more goodbye I guess
[02:04] <HazRPG> however if you know they're muslim, then either masalama or "selam wa lakum" is used
[02:04] <HazRPG> the last one means "May god grant you peace"
[02:04] <HazRPG> I think...
[02:05] <HazRPG> ah wait, my mistake its "Peace be upon you"
[02:07] <shauno> language is funny.  and I maintain english is the funniest :)
[02:11] <shauno> what's the difference between a ship and a boat?
[02:11] <HazRPG> and the reply is basically "may Allah's blessings be upon you" which is "wa alaykumu s-salamu wa rahmatu l-lah wa barakatuh" or shorted as "wa alaykum wa s-salam"
[02:11] <HazRPG> I find arabic is the funniest (p.s. the size?)
[02:11] <shauno> or dirt and soil
[02:11] <shauno> dirt's germanic and soil latin/old french, but .. why we use them both ?
[02:11] <HazRPG> in arabic, "el noor atah" means that the power got cut (blackout, etc)... proper translation is "the lights been cut"
[02:11] <HazRPG> dirt is generic isn't it?
[02:11] <HazRPG> soil is specific
[02:11] <shauno> I'd say lights cut is pretty direct from black out
[02:11] <HazRPG> soil is a type of dirt, however dirt can be anything
[02:11] <shauno> so ship and boat?
[02:11] <HazRPG> boat is small, and ship is usually big
[02:11] <shauno> they're just skip and bateau
[02:11] <HazRPG> yeah but even using blackout sounds funny
[02:11] <HazRPG> there isn't a proper way to say power cut or power surge in arabic I don't think
[02:12] <ali1234> yacht, skiff, coracle, barge...
[02:12] <shauno> barge is via greek
[02:13] <HazRPG> however boat can use used as generic too, and ship is also specific now that you say those
[02:13] <HazRPG> yacht, barge are types of boats...
[02:13] <shauno> yacht has to be germanic, skiff I'd guess norse again
[02:13] <HazRPG> not sure what the other two are  but I'd say they were boats too :P
[02:13] <ali1234> skiff is germanic same as ship
[02:14] <shauno> really?  most places we get a the sk- were norse
[02:14] <HazRPG> easiest way to amuse an egyptian... pull them about the "el noor atah", I managed to get them laughing for hours over it
[02:14] <shauno> OE ship was norse skip, so we ended up with skipper
[02:15] <shauno> and kept skip for something that's still vaguely boat shaped.  but don't have a shipper in charge of a ship.  or a skipper in a skip, for that matter
[02:15] <HazRPG> I thought a skip was for putting trash in :/
[02:16] <shauno> believe that was also the skirt/shirt deviation when it would have originally been a gown-length tunic type deal
[02:17] <shauno> shall have to figure out how exactly I'd phrase this to google to try prove I'm not nuts :)
[02:19] <ali1234> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skep
[02:19] <ali1234> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skiff
[02:21] <shauno> that second link has Old English scip (“small craft, boat”)
[02:21] <ali1234> right
[02:21] <HazRPG> noticed
[02:22] <shauno> I swear it's in one of grimm's consonant shifts, but I get completely thrown off by the characters they use
[02:22] <HazRPG> this is the best I could find for clothing over the years: http://blog.teacollection.com/images/history-of-childrens-clothing.jpg
[02:22] <ali1234> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shirt
[02:22] <shauno> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skipper   has From Middle Dutch scipper, from scip. Compare German Schiff, Schipp, Old Norse skip; confer ship, skiff.
[02:23] <shauno> so a skep may have been a basket, but a skip was a ship
[02:23] <shauno> aye, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skirt#English is a parallel formation from Old Norse
[02:23] <ali1234> same thing
[02:24] <shauno> I don't follow
[02:24] <ali1234> ship and shirt are germanic, skip and skirt are from norse
[02:25] <shauno> and that's not what I said 10 minutes ago ?
[02:25] <ali1234> yeah
[02:26] <shauno> the fun being that english just adopts every word it runs into too often, and finds an excuse to keep it
[02:26] <ali1234> best way to do it
[02:27] <ali1234> it beats inventing a new word just so you can keep the "purity" of your language or something
[02:27] <shauno> so where the germans, if they need a more precise term, just start sticking more words together until they've got one
[02:27] <shauno> we find one that's close enough, in whatever countries we're in contact with at the time, and borrow theirs
[02:28] <shauno> (I do believe loanword is a loanword, which is why it's contraction is german "bolt them all together" style rather than hyphenated)
[02:28] <HazRPG> shauno: oh, just remember a Thai word one of my friends taught me years ago! "Cop Coon Cup" means thank you
[02:28] <ali1234> i thought it *was* hyphenated
[02:29] <shauno> it's not :)
[02:29] <ali1234> i think "alot" will become a word soon :)
[02:30] <shauno> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loanword   it's lehnwort
[02:31] <shauno> they put a space in it as an alternate, I don't come across it used like that.  and never loan-word
[02:31] <shauno> even tho osx's spellchecker is fine with loan-word, apparently :/
[02:32] <HazRPG> shauno: Arabians don't even bother trying to make it sound more arabic, they're just content with keeping the word as-is as long as the letters are available in their language
[02:33] <shauno> that always bothers me to listen to
[02:33] <shauno> when you hear the welsh throw words like 'radio' into a sentence
[02:34] <shauno> it's like they spit the marbles out for half a breath, and just throw that one intelligible chunk at you
[02:35] <shauno> the irony of course being that I believe welsh is the remains of what the britons spoke before the romans, yet it's one of the least intelligible languages to me
[02:35] <HazRPG> e.g. english->arabic (also french); gear -> vitesse, clutch -> debrayage,
[02:36] <shauno> is that not directly from colonial periods?
[02:36] <HazRPG> yeah, but there wasn't a car in Egypt before that
[02:36] <HazRPG> (I don't think)
[02:37] <shauno> you can have gears without cars :)
[02:37] <shauno> but I'd expect that's the period version of computer terms going largely untranslated
[02:37] <HazRPG> ah sorry I mean gearbox
[02:38] <shauno> a friend at work was helping me buy amiga parts from a polish website
[02:38] <HazRPG> yeah
[02:38] <shauno> most the terms look just like english, but for the few words that pre-existed computers
[02:38] <HazRPG> heh
[02:38] <HazRPG> "harda" means hard drive
[02:39] <HazRPG> "cee-dee room" -> CD-Rom
[02:39] <shauno> I think memory and keyboard were the two that stood out  (they used typewriter, or a variation of, for their translation of keyboard)
[02:39] <HazRPG> :P
[02:39] <HazRPG> flasha
[02:39] <shauno> but other words looked like they just tacked a -y on the end to fit their grammar
[02:39] <HazRPG> I bet ya, I could say arabic words, and you'd know what they were
[02:39] <HazRPG> case-ah
[02:40] <ali1234> russian does that too (tack on an ending i mean)
[02:40] <HazRPG> yeah
[02:40] <HazRPG> sometimes a starting letter
[02:40] <shauno> yeah.  he tried to explain how their sentence structure works.  I couldn't get my head around it
[02:40] <ali1234> like discotech -> diskoteka
[02:40] <HazRPG> like debrayage
[02:41] <shauno> like we mutate a verb to fit it's tense.  they do it to almost everything, and for more reasons, as far as I can tell
[02:41] <HazRPG> google translate tells me the french version is "embrayage"
[02:41] <ali1234> english does all that stuff too, it's just that the rules are completely random in english so nobody actually learns about it
[02:42] <HazRPG> I know in arabic, they've also created 2 new letters over recent years, to account for the english letters "p" and "v"
[02:42] <shauno> we don't tend to mutate nouns so much
[02:42] <HazRPG> since the closest they had was "b" and "f" respectively
[02:44] <HazRPG> the arabic p and v amuse me, because the letters basically just add another two dots to the original letter
[02:44] <shauno> there we go.  komputery.  laptopy.  monitory.  technical terms seem to survive the language they were taught in
[02:44] <HazRPG> indeed
[02:45] <shauno> (except in the norman case, where I believe it was intentionally forced)
[02:45] <HazRPG> hazard a guess what "benzene" is in english ;)
[02:45] <shauno> hah
[02:46] <HazRPG> gasoline or petrol usually :p
[02:46] <shauno> most our words for law, governance, etc are from the normans.  that wasn't an accident tho
[02:46] <HazRPG> :P
[02:48] <shauno> that said, I'm not sure what the equivalents would be pre-norman
[02:48] <HazRPG> what word for example?
[02:48] <shauno> well, government, parliament, etc
[02:49] <shauno> justice doesn't sound very germanic
[02:50] <shauno> I think 'law' itself is pre-roman, but I can't think of many words deeper into the process that are
[02:51] <HazRPG> arabic for government is "hakuma" or "al-kakuma"
[02:51] <HazRPG> they like to use "al" in everything that's said by itself
[02:51] <HazRPG> al = the
[02:51] <HazRPG> mainly for things that don't have a male or female way of saying it
[02:51] <HazRPG> since they don't have a "it" in arabic
[02:52] <HazRPG> you can't say "it is a dog"
[02:52] <shauno> that's an entire concept I've never got my head around
[02:52] <HazRPG> usually its "he is a dog"
[02:53] <shauno> I can understand in the case of a dog; it's still useful to have an 'indeterminate', but gender makes sense
[02:53] <HazRPG> trust me, I've been living with arabic in my head for years... and I still don't get it
[02:53] <ali1234> what if you want to say "this is a dog"
[02:53] <HazRPG> I get funny looks when I say things wrong...
[02:53] <shauno> but when you find languages (and you don't have to look far) that have a gender for things that ... have no gender
[02:53] <ali1234> or like "this one"
[02:54] <ali1234> this vs that
[02:54] <shauno> I should be asleep :/
[02:54] <HazRPG> ali1234: "da kalb" (egyptian arabic) or more traditionally "hatha kalb" (used in all arab countries)
[02:54] <HazRPG> but kalb is male
[02:54] <HazRPG> kalba is female
[02:55] <HazRPG> usually if it has no gender (objects) its male
[02:55] <shauno> I imagine when we get gender wrong, we sound as silly as they do when they say 'runned'.  and we can't quite explain to them why some verbs are strong either
[02:55] <shauno> doesn't mean it's something my head's gonna grok at 3am
[02:55] <HazRPG> however... in arabic is more depends on who's saying it - not the actual thing your talking about
[02:57] <shauno> now that I think about it, I think bed is a sensible option.  I only got up because I got a low disk sms from my vps
[02:57] <HazRPG> e.g. "howa da" is for a guy saying "this one" but for a lass it would be "heya da"
[02:57] <shauno> and that was nearly 4 hours ago now :(
[02:57] <HazRPG> "da" would be "this"
[02:57] <HazRPG> I guess...
[02:57] <shauno> makes sense.  it's the same in orcish :p
[02:58] <HazRPG> ??/
[02:58] <shauno> come on squishy, I know you played dat game too
[02:58] <HazRPG> calling me squishy now?? lol
[02:59] <shauno> well if you didn't get orcish immediately, I peg you for alliance, so yes :)
[02:59] <HazRPG> yeah I've played it, but never really paid much attention to the languages
[03:00] <HazRPG> always mage... so squishy makes sense in that sense... but what alliance!? No... for the horde!
[03:00] <HazRPG> alliance was always filled with kids when I first started - plus the horde always looked better
[03:00]  * HazRPG was undead on release date
[03:02] <HazRPG> I've only just played that link for treasure island from earlier T_T
[03:03] <HazRPG> el pollo diablo
[03:04] <HazRPG> hmm, disturbing!
[03:04] <shauno> heh
[03:04] <HazRPG> oh, that last comment was unrelated
[03:04] <HazRPG> apparently sony just won a subpoena for GeoHotz's paypal records
[03:04] <HazRPG> news from about 3hrs ago
[03:06] <HazRPG> apparently they're allowed to view his history to see if he has enough ties to northern california... that way they can pick where he gets sued - apparently...
[03:06] <shauno> fun stuff
[03:06] <HazRPG> I'm sure it was a few months back when sony got rights to check his site's IP log for similar - why do they need his PayPal records too :/
[03:07] <shauno> so they can paper-trail more victims
[03:07] <HazRPG> obviously...
[03:07] <shauno> visiting his website is a lot more denyable
[03:07] <shauno> it could have been anyone.  you didn't have a password on your wifi, right?
[03:07] <HazRPG> lol
[03:08] <shauno> but if they can follow the money, you're screwed
[03:08] <HazRPG> ah but the money was only recently opened up for him to get more attorneys
[03:08] <ali1234> it's not about finding more people to sue (which is trivial anyway)
[03:08] <HazRPG> do go on
[03:09] <ali1234> it's about establishing that he made his work available in CA
[03:09] <HazRPG> don't see how that is relevant though :S
[03:10] <HazRPG> it was on the internet... anyone could (would) have seen it
[03:10] <ali1234> well duh
[03:10] <shauno> unless there's a law in california which works more to their favor than local
[03:10] <ali1234> exactly
[03:10] <HazRPG> hmm
[03:11] <shauno> atleast in the US, internet purchases take place in the buyer's state.  I know that from taxes
[03:11] <HazRPG> I wish cases like this would go through under European courts...
[03:11] <HazRPG> under European law
[03:11] <HazRPG> would be more interesting to see the outcome
[03:12] <shauno> if you buy from someone out of state, you don't pay sales tax at the point of purchase; you owe it on your state taxes when you file
[03:13] <HazRPG> random
[03:13] <shauno> so the actual purchase occured where the buyer is; so that's the state the taxes are paid to.  and in this case, the state the law was (allegedly) broken in
[03:13] <ali1234> groklaw is actually covering this stuff now that sco is mostly over
[03:14] <HazRPG> what's SCO?
[03:14] <shauno> it keeps consumer complaints as a matter for local authorities that way too; otherwise they'd be intra-state, so federal wire fraud
[03:15] <ali1234> HazRPG: a company that tried to sue everyone who used linux for 1 MILLION DOLLARS
[03:15] <HazRPG> woah
[03:16] <shauno> that was kinda funny :)
[03:16] <HazRPG> woah, have I missed out on some interesting news here recently?!
[03:16] <shauno> that wasn't recent
[03:16] <ali1234> it was like 10 years ago
[03:16] <HazRPG> oh wait
[03:17] <HazRPG> I think I heard something about that, now that you mention it
[03:17] <ali1234> because it was rich people vs rich people it took an extremely long time for the case to get anywhere
[03:17] <shauno> the short version, is that someone who thought they owned some rights to unix, tried to push their own linux.  realised they weren't making any money off it.
[03:17] <shauno> so they went back to trying to push their own unix, realised they weren't making any money off that either, and went nuts
[03:18] <HazRPG> *rolls eyes*
[03:18] <HazRPG> typical
[03:18] <shauno> and spent the better part of a decade dying slowly on various courtroom floors
[03:19] <shauno> on the other hand, they did license 'ancient unix' sources under an 'enthusiast' license somewhere down the line, so it wasn't all bad
[03:20] <HazRPG> ah see this is why they're doing it :/
[03:20] <shauno> nah, they just crapped themselves when they realised that linux was beating traditional unix in just about every area you could think of
[03:20] <HazRPG> they're trying to see if geohotz is getting a lot of backing from people in California, so that he can be trialled in San Francisco's court room
[03:21] <HazRPG> which is apparently half-hr drive away from Sony HQ
[03:21] <shauno> pft
[03:21] <shauno> seriously, travel expenses are the least of their legal bill
[03:21] <shauno> google california trade secrets, there has to be something there that's worth more than his home state
[03:21] <shauno> ugh, trade secrets
[03:23] <shauno> you look at the legal costs in any of these things, and tell me a couple of flights and a hotel room or three would make a noticeable difference to the bill
[03:23] <HazRPG> I guess
[03:24] <HazRPG> could be that San Francisco has better rules in sony's favour though
[03:25] <shauno> you should read into the sco thing some time tho.  it's pretty damned funny
[03:25] <shauno> if you had to set the whole thing in a bar; pasty-faced nerd, linux wanders into a bar one day, and drink's SCO's pint.
[03:26] <shauno> SCO jumps up in a fit of rage, finds the biggest guy in the bar (ibm), and takes a swing
[03:28] <shauno> when he stood up and announced he was going to sue ibm, the board should have shot him in the face.  the company would be in better shape today.
[03:28] <HazRPG> haha
[03:28] <HazRPG> :P
[03:29] <shauno> or in irc terms
  you stole my unix!
 it's not your unix.  it's novells.
 novell: wtf? you sold me unix!
  TROLOLOLOLO
[03:30] <shauno> anyhow.  'night
[03:31] <HazRPG> :P
[03:32] <HazRPG> I'm reading this: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110311112544990 seems interesting
[03:32] <HazRPG> shauno: and I shall bid you a dew
[03:32] <HazRPG> goodnight and all that stuff :)
[03:38] <shauno> *adieu.  and yes that's deus again
[03:41] <HazRPG> lol
[03:42] <HazRPG> I couldn't remember the spelling, so went with what I wrote instead
[03:54] <HazRPG> you know... I'm shocked that no one has mentioned that new games force you to update or not be able to play the game...
[03:58] <ali1234> new games?
[03:58] <ali1234> i only play old games
[03:58] <ali1234> and minecraft
[04:00] <HazRPG> on the playstation 3 and also on the PSP, when you buy a new game... the latest firmware (as of pressing, or as of what the game was coded to run off, or whatever sony said must be used - whichever comes first) has to be installed before you can play
[04:00] <ali1234> yeah
[04:00] <ali1234> i would never buy a new console
[04:00] <ali1234> i only buy old gen
[04:00] <HazRPG> saying that the x360 is the same
[04:00] <ali1234> and the wii
[04:01] <HazRPG> I can understand that
[04:01] <HazRPG> but my point is, why haven't they used this against sony?
[04:01] <ali1234> they have
[04:01] <ali1234> there is a class action against them
[04:01] <ali1234> see groklaw
[04:01] <HazRPG> I am :P
[04:01] <HazRPG> as linked above (what I'm reading now)
[04:02] <ali1234> that's basically the the whole argument against them
[04:02] <HazRPG> so far, no mention of firmware being forced from new games, only mentions of updates that have been downloaded
[04:02] <HazRPG> which you need, if you want to use PSN
[04:02] <ali1234> "Users who downloaded Update 3.21 had a core advertised feature removed from       their system. Users who did not download Update 3.21 lost other core advertised features. "
[04:03] <ali1234> you are not forced to download the update
[04:03] <ali1234> but you lose functionality whether you do or do not
[04:03] <ali1234> that's the argument
[04:03] <HazRPG> true... but if they used the new games thing too in their argument, it would give them a stronger backing
[04:03] <HazRPG> since if one was to pick not using PSN, and keep OtherOS
[04:04] <HazRPG> and was happy or fine with that... what if they wanted a new game, they couldn't
[04:04] <ali1234> yes, people in the class action have done that
[04:04] <HazRPG> I suppose I should keep reading then :P
[04:04] <ali1234> inability to play new games is the feature you lose if you choose not to update
[04:05] <HazRPG> when you word it like that...
[04:05] <HazRPG> unrelated... I'm hungry again :/
[04:13] <ball> I think I need a UPS or two.
[04:14] <ball> ...and a pie.
[04:15] <HazRPG> :P
[07:06] <knightwise> morning everyone
[07:06] <knightwise> hope all of you are doing ok ?
[07:21] <HazRPG> morning squire, how's it going?
[07:36] <knightwise> hey HazRPG
[07:36] <knightwise> doing fine
[07:36] <HazRPG> gdgd :)
[07:37] <screen-x> morning :)
[07:38]  * screen-x wonders if HazRPG sleeps at all
[07:38] <HazRPG> from time to time :P
[07:39] <knightwise> hey screen-x
[07:39] <knightwise> aha :) I mananged to get TWIDGE working again :)
[07:40] <screen-x> morning knightwise :)
[07:41] <knightwise> All i need to find out now is how to script it so i can post some podcast related tweets every x hours
[07:41] <screen-x> twidge?
[07:41] <knightwise> yep ,
[07:41] <knightwise> cli twitter client
[07:41] <screen-x> ahh
[07:41] <knightwise> interesting little program , so its always nice to use that :)
[07:42] <hoover> good mornin
[07:43] <knightwise> hello hoover
[07:43] <knightwise> how are you today
[07:48] <knightwise> i have a small question
[07:48] <knightwise> the updates by twidge are done with the "twidge update" command
[07:48] <knightwise> you type twidge update
[07:48] <knightwise> hit enter
[07:48] <knightwise> enter your text
[07:49] <knightwise> and hit enter again
[07:49] <knightwise> but how do i script that ? i can script the command twidge update
[07:49] <knightwise> but how to i script the "hard returns ?"
[07:58] <screen-x> knightwise: can twidge take the update text as an argument or on stdin?
[08:01] <knightwise> not as an argument i guess
[08:01] <knightwise> you need to type , twidge update
[08:01] <knightwise> then hit enter
[08:01] <knightwise> en then you get a blank line to enter text
[08:01] <knightwise> hit enter again and it gets updated
[08:03] <screen-x> knightwise: try giving it the text on stdin, eg echo "foo" |twidge update
[08:04] <screen-x> if it doesn't like that, you can either hack it so that it does ;-) or use expect
[08:05] <knightwise> checking my twitterfeed now ,
[08:05] <knightwise> i think that worked
[08:05] <knightwise> YES !
[08:05] <knightwise> Aaawesome :)
[08:06]  * knightwise can now script some podcast promo tweets to run while he is sleeping
[08:14] <czajkowski> Aloha
[08:14] <knightwise> hey czajkowski good to see you again
[08:17] <DJones> Morning
[08:17] <knightwise> hey DJones
[08:17] <DJones> Hi knightwise czajkowski screen-x
[08:26] <AlanBell> top o' the morning to ya czajkowski
[08:26] <AlanBell> today being "talk like a leprechaun day"
[08:27] <knightwise> Hey AlanBell
[08:27] <knightwise> how do leprechauns talk ?
[08:27] <knightwise> Topadamorninntoya ?
[08:32] <hoover> lol
[08:33] <knightwise> all they yap about all day are pots of gold anyway
[08:35]  * screen-x has lost his wallet :(
[08:35] <screen-x> bring on NFC payments
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: with a chip implanted in your finger?
[08:36] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: or phone, either would work :p
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> until you lost your phone
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> it'd have to be a bad day to lose your finger
[08:36] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: yah, but my phone tells me where it is..
[08:37] <czajkowski> oh dear
[08:38] <MooDoo> well thanks to the podcast i now know how to say czajkowski :)
[08:39] <screen-x> MooDoo: seezedtab?
[08:39] <MooDoo> screen-x: yay!
[08:43] <knightwise> morning MooDoo
[08:52] <nigelb> AlanBell: poke?
[08:52] <MooDoo> knightwise: morning
[08:55] <knightwise> hey MooDoo how are you doing today
[08:56] <AlanBell> o/ nigelb
[08:56] <nigelb> AlanBell: PM? :)
[08:56] <AlanBell> any time
[08:57] <MooDoo> knightwise: i'm not bad thank, i'm on bacon coffee and head ache tabs :)
[08:59] <knightwise> ooh , thats a killer combo,
[08:59] <MooDoo> knightwise: might keep me awake this morning :)
[08:59] <knightwise> i'm on donuts , mint tea and a citrix session to my workplace
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: awww
[08:59] <knightwise> hey MartijnVdS
[09:00] <knightwise> Thank god for irssi, centerim, twidge and alpine in a command line windows
[09:02]  * knightwise wished byobu also split the windows vertically instead of only horizontally
[09:02] <diplo> morning
[09:02] <knightwise> hey diplo
[09:03] <hoover> mornin
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: Ctrl+A |
[09:03] <screen-x> knightwise: it does :)
[09:03] <screen-x> screen has had vsplits for a while now
[09:03] <knightwise> huzza !
[09:05] <knightwise> thanx ! :) hadn't googled it properly either
[09:07] <kazade> morning
[09:07] <kazade> podcast! \o/
[09:08] <knightwise> Huzza (again)
[09:08] <knightwise> Ps : I featured a little review of the podcast in my latest article
[09:08] <knightwise> www.knightwise.com
[09:08]  * bigcalm raises the white flag. Is it the weekend yet?
[09:08] <knightwise> I did a review of my opml file
[09:08] <knightwise> bigcalm: probably need to sync to a different timeserver
[09:12] <bigcalm> Just put the podcast on. Did popey say it was 2010?
[09:12] <knightwise> hahaah no way !
[09:12]  * bigcalm chuckles
[09:14]  * MooDoo goes and listens to the podcast to check
[09:14] <knightwise> I just ordered Gpodder to download it
[09:14] <MooDoo> yes he did, he says 2010 :) lol
[09:15] <bigcalm> Oh good :)
[09:15] <MooDoo> popey: it's 2011 :p
[09:15]  * DJones checks his phone & notes that Listen has automatically downloaded it overnight
[09:15] <knightwise> DJones: i never managed to "understand" google listen
[09:15] <knightwise> I never know if it has downloaded the episode or is streaming it
[09:16] <DJones> knightwise: I just added it as a subscription via the web interface
[09:16]  * knightwise uses gpodder.org or just gpo subscribe <RSSfeedofthepodcast>
[09:18] <DJones> knightwise: On mine, if its downloaded, it just plays when requested, otherwise it gave me a warning about whether I wanted to play the streamed version
[09:18] <MooDoo> bigcalm: no do i comment about it on the podcast.ubuntu-uk.org page ;)
[09:19] <knightwise> DJones: good idea , might look into that for my wifes Android phone. She likes trancy tune podcasts
[09:19] <knightwise> so that way she"'ll have a self charging mp3player
[09:20] <DJones> knightwise: The only other thing I set was so that it only downloaded over wifi when available
[09:21] <knightwise> ah , that thus prevents it from streaming ver gprs too ?
[09:23] <DJones> no, I think if you choose to listen to a stream, thats fine, but rather than downloading a 60Mb podcast & using a big chunk of the bandwidth, it just does the download to teh device via wifi
[09:24] <knightwise> ok , i'll take a look at it
[09:24] <knightwise> did a review on the way i podcatch right now in the last episode of the podcast (made a pdf howto)
[09:25] <knightwise> the entire script that i made with the help of you guyz is also in there
[09:32] <selinuxium> Monring all   o/
[09:35] <hoover> mornin
[09:36] <knightwise> hahaha :) Watch + twidge lsrecent = command line twitter client !
[09:37] <knightwise> watch -b -n 60 twidge lsrecent
[09:38] <shauno> didn't realise screen did vertical splits.  irssi & mutt sit next to each other so much nicer that way
[09:42] <knightwise> we learn something new every day :)
[09:53] <AlanBell> twidge seems broken
[09:54] <czajkowski> *yawns*
[09:54] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski great podcast :)
[09:54] <czajkowski> heh cheers.
[09:54] <knightwise> czajkowski: you're ON the podcast ?
[09:54] <knightwise> Nice !
[09:55] <czajkowski> just on the latest one. they were stuck on missing a laura
[09:55] <AlanBell> knightwise: they had to bring out the emergency replacement Laura
[09:55] <MooDoo> czajkowski: only one thing, it's 2011 not 2010 :p
[09:57] <DJones> I saw a tweet from laura saying she was at Bank Quay Station in Warrington yesterday afternoon, living about 20 minutes away from there, I can say that people have gone there and never been seen or heard of again
[09:58] <AlanBell> http://blog.nelhage.com/2010/09/dear-twitter/
[10:03] <knightwise> AlanBell: :) Lol ERL ! thats a nice title
[10:04]  * AlanBell fixors twidge
[10:05] <knightwise> AlanBell: its a cool program :) some combinations with echo and watch commands and you can build a complete automatic twitter client
[10:05] <mungojerry> knightwise: or put tweets into conky output?
[10:06] <directhex> blarg :(
[10:06] <knightwise> would be a great idea
[10:07] <mungojerry> now i need to find out how to send nagios alerts as tweets
[10:08] <knightwise> echo "(nagios output)" | twidge update
[10:08] <mungojerry> oh really?
[10:08] <mungojerry> :P
[10:08] <mungojerry> sounds a bit too eay
[10:08] <mungojerry> *easy
[10:09] <knightwise> well, how about making the nagios output a variable and using backticks ?
[10:09]  * knightwise must dash to work
[10:16] <bigcalm> In WordPress, how do you make a page the homepage rather than the blog?
[10:18] <JamesTait> Happy St Patrick's Day, everyone! :D
[10:19] <bigcalm> Never mind, found it
[10:24]  * TheOpenSourcerer prepares to go to London for a very traditional St. Paddy's Day curry with some old mates. One is in fact Irish.
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: I'll piing you mid-late afternoon. If I forget, don't be shy and give me bell.
[10:27] <dogmatic69> o/
[10:32] <bigcalm> popey: all of the images in the twitter feed are broken on the ubuntu-uk.co.uk site
[10:35] <directhex> amazon storage is broken, if that's relevant
[10:37] <bigcalm> And there are stlying issues on the podcast site :)
[10:42]  * BigRedS wishes FTP would just go away
[10:43] <bigcalm> Don't rub eyes while eating wasbi peas :(
[10:43] <directhex> don't rub wasabi peas when eating eyes
[10:44] <directhex> BigRedS,  http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie ?
[10:46] <shauno> I thought it pretty much had.  only ever see it used for uploading fw to embedded devices
[10:48] <BigRedS> directhex: pretty much :)
[10:48] <BigRedS> shauno: lots of website-making-people seem to demand it
[10:48] <BigRedS> They dislike scp, but don't mind so much if you call it sftp
[10:51] <selinuxium> Hi BigRedS
[10:53] <BigRedS> g'morning selinuxium!
[10:54] <mungojerry> directhex: were you taling about redmine yesterday or was it someone else
[10:54] <directhex> i was
[10:54] <mungojerry> i been using it for 3-4 years
[10:55] <mungojerry> i actually use it as a helpdesk system
[10:55] <mungojerry> the UI is lovely
[10:55] <directhex> i am prepared to look past the Ruby on Rails evilness, to the fact that it's freaking awesome compared to trac
[10:55] <directhex> the privilege separation appears to work perfectly, so we can have a "base" project, with "client1" and "client2" subprojects - and members of client1 will never see any leakage
[10:56] <directhex> e.g. they can put a blocker on bugs in base, but client2 members will never see that
[10:56] <directhex> absolutely perfect for us
[10:56] <mungojerry> i have a few issues outstanding with it, but it's almost perfect for me
[10:57] <mungojerry> i'd like to change the author of a ticket etc.
[10:57] <directhex> also, the project manglement parts appear like extra delicious candy for us
[10:57] <mungojerry> i also wrote some extra stuff to draw pretty graphs based on mysql queries
[10:57] <dogmatic69> ive been trying to follow this tutorial on aws stuff http://tinyurl.com/yct4oua but having a prob with this command, it does not seem to work "nohup dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/sdh &" ... output http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1486650903
[10:58] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: what's in nohup.out?
[10:58] <dogmatic69> i cant find that
[10:59] <directhex> mungojerry, we're just testing with sqlite for now. can always move to postgres later
[10:59] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: found it :) looks like it did work at some point.
[11:00] <nacol> hi
[11:01] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: aha! so no problems then?
[11:01] <nacol> I am having problem downloading backtrack
[11:01] <selinuxium> BigRedS, How's things?
[11:02] <nacol> i was told file was not found on server after downloading 1514MB
[11:02] <nacol> PLEASE HELP
[11:02] <Myrtti> try ubuntu instead?
[11:03] <nacol> i am using ubuntu now but i want backtrack too
[11:03] <BigRedS> selinuxium: pretty good! Still pretty pleased with the whole using-debian-all-day thing going on here :)
[11:03] <BigRedS> how're you?
[11:03] <nacol> Myrtti, i want backtrack too
[11:03] <DJones> nacol: There is a #backtrack-linux they may be able to help you, that seems like the main support channel for backtrack
[11:04] <nacol> i dont understand am a newbie
[11:04] <DJones> nacol: It sounds like there's been a problem with the Backtrack server though & the file you were downloading is no longer available
[11:04] <nacol> Djones, what do i do
[11:05] <nacol> please help
[11:06] <DJones> nacol: If you join the #backtrack-linux channel (type /join #backtrack-linux in your irc client) they may have come across the problem and have a solution, or just try downloading the file again
[11:07] <mungojerry> nacol: maybe there's also a mirror site that might not have the problem you are experiencing?
[11:08] <mungojerry> nacol: for example, http://backtrack.linuxfreedom.com/download.html
[11:09] <nacol> thanks, i will try the mirror
[11:09] <mungojerry> nacol:  on second thought, that doesn't look like the latest version
[11:10] <mungojerry> but there should be other mirrors , or bittorrents?
[11:10] <nacol> which one is the latest version
[11:11] <mungojerry> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/downloads/ says backtrack 4 r2
[11:11] <mungojerry> there is also a link to the torrent too
[11:12] <nacol> that was the site I used and had that problem
[11:12] <nacol> mungojerry, are you using backtrack?
[11:15] <mungojerry> nacol: no, but i've used it before for forensics. the torrent file  is downloaded from seeders, not from the site
[11:15] <mungojerry> knoppix and backtrack are useful to have nearby on a live cd
[11:16] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: it said permission denied and then also (from another attempt looked like it worked) but /dev/sdh is empty
[11:20] <mungojerry> anaconda now needs > 512mb in SL6 :(
[11:22] <nacol> am still having problem downloading backtrack
[11:23] <nacol> please help
[11:23] <BigRedS> nacol: what are the problems?
[11:23] <DJones> nacol: You'll get better help if you ask #backtrack-linux that is the support channel for backtrack
[11:24] <BigRedS> and, without meaning to sound rude, what is the connection to ubuntu?
[11:24] <nacol> i download 1714 MB and there was error
[11:24] <BigRedS> It's not that this is ubuntu-only, but here's not necessarily a place I'd expect to find a bunch of people with backtrack expertise
[11:25] <nacol> ok
[11:25] <nacol> thanks
[11:25] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: what made the otehr attempt look like it worked?
[11:26] <BigRedS> nacol: it does sound like just a fairly common download error. Something, somewhere along your connection, failed. Most probably at backtrack's server
[11:26] <BigRedS> have you tried downloading again?
[11:26] <nacol> yes
[11:26] <mungojerry> bittorrent is a better way to retrieve the file
[11:27] <mungojerry> since you can resume the download
[11:27] <nacol> how do i do this
[11:27] <mungojerry> download the small torrent file on the page
[11:27] <mungojerry> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/downloads/
[11:27] <AlanBell> find a .torrent file and click it, it should open in transmission
[11:28] <nacol> ok thanks
[11:29] <gord> i'v somehow managed to get firefox to resume a download before, but its like a random dice roll on weather it decides to do it
[11:36] <AlanBell> probably depends whether the server does byte range serving
[11:36] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1809573285
[11:37] <dogmatic69> df -h == /dev/sdh              9.9G  151M  9.2G   2% /mnt/ebsimage
[11:37] <dogmatic69> i think it is too small...
[11:43] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[11:46] <Daviey> I'm not convinced it's that simple.... i think often firefox gives up too easily... i mean, i use wget -c http://some-url-file all the time to continue downloads
[11:46] <Daviey> I suspect firefox would just laugh at me most of the time
[11:48] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: that would do it
[11:49] <BigRedS> I don't know dd that well, but I think if you don't specify anything else (via count=) it just stops when it runs out of either if or of
[11:49] <dogmatic69> ye
[11:49] <dogmatic69> cant eject that mount now
[11:49] <BigRedS> ah yeah
[11:50] <BigRedS> things get annoyed when you do stuff like that. partprobe *may* help
[11:50] <dogmatic69> partprobe?
[11:50] <dogmatic69> if i just yank the drive out on aws will the main data be ok?
[11:51] <dogmatic69> just gonna bin that ebs that is mounted
[11:51]  * brobostigon shakes fist at java for sucking ram.
[11:52] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: I've no idea with aws. Generally, though, if you're pulling the drive you were copying *to* there's no reason for breakage on teh source drive
[11:53] <dogmatic69> cool
[11:53] <BigRedS> but the OS might complain horribly
[11:57] <dogmatic69> this is all that could be stoping the eject, i think http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1138790026
[11:58] <brobostigon> anyone know how i change the way fonts are rendered in natty, ?
[12:00] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: *facepalm* i was in /mnt/ebsthingy doing the eject :D
[12:00] <dogmatic69> cd / and then it worked
[12:06] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: haha! I do that far too often
[12:07] <dogmatic69> :)
[12:09] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Rowson] How to read data from a remote Windows registry using Python - http://www.justuber.com/blog/2011/03/17/how-to-read-data-from-a-remote-windows-registry-using-python/
[12:23] <Daviey> Soooo... Anyone tried the Magic Mouse?
[12:23] <bigcalm> That the one with the nipple?
[12:23] <selinuxium> Anyone up for coming to see me gig with my Metal band 2nd April at the Camden Barfly?
[12:25] <selinuxium> BigRedS, Ok this end.. been very stressful recently, but getting through.. :)
[12:28] <Daviey> bigcalm, yes!  single nipple
[12:29] <Daviey> i think
[12:29] <popey> the magic mouse has no nipple
[12:29] <popey> http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
[12:30] <popey> do you mean the mighty mouse? http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MB112ZM/B
[12:31] <gord> never quite understood why apple go for that style mouse, as opposed to one that fits the contours of your hand - i'm sure they have a reason, they aren't stupid
[12:31] <bigcalm> Style over comfort?
[12:32] <BigRedS> I think few people genuinely think about ergonomics when they pick computery things
[12:32] <BigRedS> they want something that looks pretty and forget there's that whole comfort thing going on
[12:33] <BigRedS> selinuxium: Ah, are you still surrounded by umoving cobol guys?
[12:37] <selinuxium> BigRedS, indeed..
[12:37] <selinuxium> :)
[12:38] <mungojerry> any clever yum dudes in here?
[12:39] <mungojerry> i want to list the packages of a yum group
[12:40] <mungojerry> ah, yum groupinfo <group>
[12:41] <Daviey> popey, ah yes!  I did mean the magic mouse, but was looking at mighty mouse...doh
[12:41]  * Daviey wants a mouse, a bluetooth mouse
[12:44] <popey> i would personally not get one, I'd get the tablet thing
[12:44] <popey> although i have just bought two normal mice
[12:44] <popey> one is pink, logitech, and has a tux logo on the box :)
[12:45] <popey> the other is black, microsoft, and does not
[12:45] <mungojerry> pink
[12:45] <mungojerry> at least it won't get stolen if it's pink
[12:45] <popey> it might do
[12:45] <gord> there is only one way to decide the winner?
[12:45] <popey> i dont care though
[12:45] <popey> FIIIIGHT!
[12:45] <gord> man i haven't seen harry hill in years, is that still going?
[12:46] <popey> yes
[12:46] <gord> neat
[12:46] <popey> i do like microsoft mice though
[12:46] <gord> if there is one thing that microsoft know (and arguably, there is) - its mice
[12:47] <gord> i use some random "gamer" mouse, just because it has a high DPI
[12:49] <popey> i am going to sound stupid now.
[12:49] <popey> what is the 'dash' in ubuntu 11.04?
[12:50] <mungojerry> isn't that when you click the ubuntu icon?
[12:50] <AlanBell> is that the term for the thing when you click the circle of friends top left?
[12:50] <AlanBell> and get a page of useless stuff to click on
[12:51] <mungojerry> btw try dragging one of those things somwhere like the desktop
[12:51] <popey> i have literally no idea
[12:53] <gord> popey, places
[12:53] <gord> ... which are actually lens's now
[12:53] <gord> lensi?
[12:54] <popey> how do i get to places?
[12:55] <gord> super key, or click the bfb or press one of the places icons at the bottom of your launcher
[12:55] <gord> also, alt+f2 (which is awesome if you haven't tried that yet)
[12:57] <popey> recordmydesktop seems broken in natty
[12:57] <gord> it was for a while for me, just hung eating up all my cpu but i used it successfully a week or so ago
[12:57] <mungojerry> why, when unity feels like a more tablet oriented DE, does it require MORE keyboard input than any other DE i've used
[12:58] <popey> it doesnt seem to copy with alt-tabbing and leaves artifacts on the screen
[12:58] <mungojerry> does recordmydesktop use a systray icon
[12:58] <mungojerry> ok
[12:58] <gord> popey, oh, i'v seen that stuff when using  compiz. using force full frames?
[12:58] <popey> yes
[12:58] <popey> yes
[12:58] <gord> no idea then
[12:59] <popey> is places configurable?
[12:59] <popey> e.g. it says 'check email' and I'd like that to go to gmail, not evolution
[13:00] <mungojerry> popey: as an alternative, i saw someone using byzanz-record to record their desktop on natty
[13:00] <popey> eww
[13:00] <popey> no audio too
[13:00] <popey> i hate screencasts with no audio
[13:00] <mungojerry> ok :P
[13:00] <popey> :)
[13:01] <mungojerry> hmm seem to have 2 network indicators in natty atm
[13:02] <mungojerry> popey:  Allow recording audio with Theora video.
[13:02] <brobostigon> mungojerry: ihad that yesterday, in unity-2d. seems to have gone now in normal unity.
[13:02] <mungojerry> brobostigon: yay :)
[13:03] <gord> popey, if you set the preferred mail application to gmail somehow, maybe
[13:03] <brobostigon> mungojerry: mind you, i have had alot of nm-applet problems recently.
[13:04] <mungojerry> just rebooting after a olt of updates in last 24 hrs
[13:04]  * brobostigon goes to make a hot-toddy, he isnt feeling well.
[13:04] <mungojerry> hot toddies and chicken soup fix most known ailments
[13:05] <brobostigon> no whisky,i will have to use brandy insted.
[13:05] <mungojerry> does anyone find the concertina effect doesn't work?
[13:05] <mungojerry> when you try to expand the lower items, they disappear off screen
[13:07] <popey> i have made my thing 32px wide
[13:07] <popey> so i dont see the concertina effect
[13:07] <mungojerry> 36px for me
[13:07] <mungojerry> popey: try long click on an icon..what happens?
[13:07] <popey> menu
[13:07] <popey> same as right click
[13:08] <popey> which says to me 'built for touch devices'
[13:08] <mungojerry> try very long click on an icon lower in your launcher
[13:09] <popey> dunno
[13:09] <popey> what am i supposed to be seeing?
[13:09] <mungojerry> http://i.imgur.com/q3mfA.png
[13:09] <popey> yes, i get that
[13:10] <mungojerry> is that a bug or feature?
[13:10] <popey> no idea
[13:10] <mungojerry> hard to search for in launchpad too
[13:10] <mungojerry> i think it's a bug since a long click on applications shoudl present a list of app types , but then the launcher jreks down like that
[13:11] <gord> bug
[13:12] <mungojerry> cool, there's progress on bug 717114 :)
[13:14] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bCuSeziHHw is now my phone ringtone
[13:16] <bigcalm> I wonder if you can develop a nut allergy later in life
[13:16]  * popey steals bigcalm's graze box
[13:16] <bigcalm> popey: ancient forest nuts
[13:16] <popey> same to you!
[13:16] <bigcalm> The walnuts and almonds are fine
[13:17] <popey> wifey is allergic to almonds
[13:17] <bigcalm> The hazels are having an adverse effect :(
[13:17] <popey> are you asthmatic?
[13:17] <bigcalm> Yes
[13:17] <popey> yeah, makes sense

[13:17] <bigcalm> Hehe
[13:18] <bigcalm> My lips are swelling up, fun times
[13:18] <bigcalm> I'll leave the hazels for Hayley ;)
[13:18] <bigcalm> I like the track, puts me in mind of mr ben
[13:19] <popey> it was used on Charlie Brooker's thing
[13:19] <bigcalm> Those crazy late 70s early 80s
[13:19] <popey> and I coudln't recognise it
[13:19] <bigcalm> Ah
[13:19] <popey> so posted to one of those 'whats that tune' sites
[13:19] <popey> http://www.whatsthatcalled.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15813
[13:20] <bigcalm> I wonder if programme credits should list indcidental music used
[13:21] <popey> he apparently has a spotify list
[13:21] <popey> but the link from browser to spotify is broken on linux
[13:22] <bigcalm> Poop
[13:22] <popey> http://open.spotify.com/user/charliebrooker/playlist/1cbjbEfXuZesvIYHnN9ilP
[13:22] <popey> works on osx
[13:23] <bigcalm> spotify:user:charliebrooker:playlist:1cbjbEfXuZesvIYHnN9ilP
[13:23] <bigcalm> Put that into the spotify search bar
[13:24] <popey> ooo yay
[13:24] <popey> thanks
[13:24] <bigcalm> :)
[13:25] <popey> unfortunately the song i wanted isnt available on spotify :)
[13:25] <bigcalm> DOH
[13:25] <popey> loads of Syd Dale stuff is
[13:26] <popey> i didnt realise he made "Full Flight" and "Man Friday"
[13:27] <Mez> Seriously, what's the point of the sandwhich van turning up at our work with literally 1 sandwhich on it?
[13:29] <bigcalm> Somebody will buy it
[13:29] <bigcalm> Lunch time I think
[13:29] <Mez> No - I mean - he knows theres at least 5 of us who buy our food from him.
[13:30] <Mez> Now I've gotta go hunting for a sandwhich shop that's still open.
[13:30] <screen-x> Mez: maybe the company before you on the rota where hungry today
[13:40] <Mez> screen-x: now I'm hungry. yay.
[13:40] <Mez> And, all the damned sandwhich shops around here shut at 1 or half 1
[13:40] <Mez> and I really don't feel like going to subway or something like that.
[13:42] <screen-x> mez buy a spud and microwave it :)
[13:44] <shauno> \o/
[13:44] <shauno> I have ramen for lunch :/
[13:45] <Myrtti> mmmm subway
[13:47] <mungojerry> nothing gives post-food regret quite like subway
[13:47] <mungojerry> repeats on me for 8 hrs after
[13:47] <Myrtti> subway? in comparison to pizza or hot wings...
[13:48] <Myrtti> subway is the regret free option
[13:48] <mungojerry> even after i eat a full evening meal , i still get subway burps from lunchtime
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> hmm running :)
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> Makes all options regret-free ;)
[13:49]  * mungojerry is underweight, never regrets eating calories, but sometimes regrets for other reasons
[13:49] <shauno> I swear I have an indestructable stomach.  there's very, very little I'll regret eating
[13:49] <Mez> shauno: me too...
[13:49] <mungojerry> it's quite annoying always  having to choose the higher calorie option , even when i don't feel like it
[13:50] <mungojerry> shauno: every irish person i've met is similar, and have a MASSIVE appetite
[13:50] <shauno> my lunch options are mostly limited by how far I can be bothered walking.  especially on holidays
[13:53] <BigRedS> Why can't I find the view-all-my-mail-in-plain-text option in Thunderbird?
[13:53] <mungojerry> i take probiotics to keep the stomach elfs happy, not sure if they work..feel the same about homeopathic stuff too
[13:53] <BigRedS> I suspect probiotics are better grounded in science
[13:54] <BigRedS> but do seem to have a fair whack of exageration, too
[13:55] <popey> heh
[13:55] <popey> I saw a doctor once who said don't even touch them, because you'd need to drink gallons of the stuff to get any useful amount of the probiotics to stay in your tummy
[13:55] <mungojerry> i have freeze dried ones...they're probably all dead already
[13:56] <popey> however, conversely we always give our kids those yog thinks like actimel if they're on antibiotics, it helps a lot
[13:56] <mungojerry> antiobiotics mess me up badly
[13:56]  * MartijnVdS hasn't been on antibiotics for ages
[13:56] <mungojerry> couldn't leave the house the last time
[13:56] <popey> Sophie gets infections, hole in her eardrum
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_(band)

[13:57] <mungojerry> MartijnVdS: every the sensitive type!
[13:57] <mungojerry> *ever
[13:57] <popey> :)
[13:57] <popey> her ears are big, not that big
[13:58] <brobostigon> is this the same for everyone, in unity, with apps  on different workspaces, alt-tab doesnt show apps  fromother workspaces,only th same workspace?
[13:59] <mungojerry> brobostigon: yes, i guess that's the desired functionality
[14:00] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i amused to alt-tab showing everything, from any workspace, its alittle weird, iforget some apps are there.
[14:00] <mungojerry> just tried to zoom out to wirkspace switcher with super-e  - realised that the unity launcher now destroys any super-key shortcuts :(
[14:00] <mungojerry> thought that super-tab might do the all-workspaces but unity broke that too
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> \o/ unity
[14:02] <mungojerry> \0_
[14:02] <DJones> Heh http://www.27bslash6.com/blockbuster.html (It is safee for work)
[14:09] <dwatkins> DJones: nice :)
[14:09] <DJones> dwatkins: Been looking at some of the others on the site, but some of them are a bit NSFW
[14:11] <mungojerry> does anyone remembre a website that showed pieces of paper that had randomly been found
[14:12] <mungojerry> sometimes they were weird shopping lists and other times surreal statements
[14:22] <mungojerry> found it, www.foundmagazine.com probably NSFW
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> good thing my W isn't too concerned about things being S :)
[14:30] <popey> 14:00:14 < mungojerry> just tried to zoom out to wirkspace switcher with super-e  - realised that the unity launcher now destroys any super-key shortcuts :(
[14:30] <popey> wfm
[14:31]  * mungojerry tries again
[14:31] <popey> also super+w
[14:31] <gord> yeah its just compiz keybindings
[14:31] <mungojerry> agh
[14:31] <popey> which is listed in the launcher
[14:32] <mungojerry> sorry, didn't notice there were 3 shortcuts on the lower icons
[14:32] <mungojerry> thought it was just 1-10
[14:32]  * screen-x just had a trainwreck of a phone interview :(
[14:32] <mungojerry> screen-x: :(
[14:32] <mungojerry> hard qu's?
[14:33] <dutchie> i should probably do something about some sort of job
[14:33] <screen-x> I had answers, I just dont think I gave them the most relevant ones..
[14:34] <screen-x> I had made loads of notes in prepartion, but nervousness does strange things..
[14:34] <mungojerry> after a couple more interviews your recall will prob improve
[14:34] <screen-x> mungojerry: thanks..
[14:35] <mungojerry> you never know how others fared
[14:38] <screen-x> I had prepared for them to ask how my experience/skills match each of the requirements, but I was just asked to talk about my current role while they took notes.
[14:38] <screen-x> Next time will prepare some prose!
[14:38] <selinuxium> Arrghhh!!! Seriously dumb question right now, but just realised I have never configured upstart. trying to get /etc/init.d/vmware-tools to start on reboot.. #
[14:39] <selinuxium> sudo update-rc.d vmware-tools defaults 80
[14:39] <selinuxium> throws errors...
[14:39] <mungojerry> just noticed that /var/log/messages doesn't exist on natty
[14:39] <MartijnVdS> it doesn't?!
[14:40] <selinuxium> Any ideas?
[14:41] <gord> popey, i just had what you seemed to experience with recordmydesktop with the gnome screenshot tool, i'd expect its a weird compiz thing
[14:41] <selinuxium> The Upstart page isn't very helpful... Or I am stupid... Or both..
[15:00] <bicyclerepairman> ey up. I graphics card and monitor are both capable of resolutions up to 1280x1024, but in the Monitors dialogue, 1024x768 is the highest one available. How can I find out what's going on?
[15:01] <screen-x> bicyclerepairman: read xorg.0.log and see why it rejected the other modes.
[15:01] <bigcalm> Check that /etc/X11/xorg.conf isn't limiting your mode choices
[15:03] <bicyclerepairman> "Not using default mode "1280x1024" (exceeds panel dimensions)"
[15:04] <bicyclerepairman> I *know* my panel does higher resolutions, I've seen it with my own eyes
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> your screen is telling your graphics card it only supports up to 1024x768
[15:04] <bicyclerepairman> even in ubuntu, earlier in boot sequence :-)
[15:04] <bicyclerepairman> ah so then I suppose I need to delve in and do some hacking?
[15:04] <bicyclerepairman> :-(
[15:05] <screen-x> bicyclerepairman: you could try creating an xorg.conf and only giving it one mode to choose from.
[15:06] <MartijnVdS> or removing it completely
[15:06]  * MartijnVdS hasn't had a xorg.conf for 3 releases now
[15:06] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: I use it for twinview
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: ah.. I don't buy nvidia :)
[15:09] <shauno> I used to only buy nvidia because of the predictability of their drivers.  sad to see so many troubles now :/
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> I don't buy it because of the predictible breakage of their drivers ;)
[15:12] <mungojerry> i buy intel so that i'm not tempted to play games ;)
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: it's getting better
[15:12]  * bigcalm chuckles
[15:12] <gord> i use linux so that i'm not tempted to play games ;)
[15:13] <mungojerry> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2011-March/001484.html << for nvidia users
[15:22] <mungojerry> gord: also true
[15:22] <mungojerry> i tend to prefer indie games anyway..more old school the better
[15:23] <mungojerry> thats probably old age creeping in
[15:24] <directhex> i dual-boot windows because i love games
[15:24] <mungojerry> directhex: how old r u
[15:24] <mungojerry> if u don't mind me asking..
[15:25] <bigcalm> I have a Wii console because I hate games
[15:25]  * mungojerry used to love games in his 20s
[15:25] <mungojerry> now i don't have the time :(
[15:25] <directhex> mungojerry, um... 26 or 27. something like that
[15:26] <mungojerry> my flatmate used to come home and snipe-shoot people from the multistorey car park in GTA3 to unwind
[15:26] <mungojerry> directhex: enjoy it while you can :)
[15:26] <directhex> 27 in a couple of weeks, that's the badger
[15:31] <mungojerry> when i was 27 i bought the game black and white
[15:31] <mungojerry> to run on my windows machine
[15:31] <mungojerry> turned out that it would regularly cause windows to crash upon saving your game
[15:32] <mungojerry> i blame 98/ME though..win xp was not out at the time
[15:34] <mungojerry> Google have fixed the flash vulnerability in chrome faster than adobe
[15:37] <directhex> black & white was fairly buggy
[15:38] <DJones> I don't even want to think what games would have been out when I was 27
[15:40] <mungojerry> directhex: yeah, after all the hype, i never got past level5 or so due to the insance amount of micromanagement required, and the inevitable BSOD
[15:40] <directhex> there were only 5 levels, so you got pretty far
[15:40] <DJones> Ah, Doom was created when I was 27 :)
[15:41] <BigRedS> Hah. I think I was about 9
[15:41] <mungojerry> directhex: really? i only got to the level where my monster got tied up
[15:42] <Myrtti> minecraafffttt
[15:43] <shauno> rawr?
[16:30]  * mungojerry remembers to sync his mp3 player for the uupc podcast on the commute home
[16:36]  * DJones needs a stiff drink, England won a game in the world cup after they looked to be getting battered
[16:41]  * screen-x needs a sleep
[16:50]  * BigRedS has a coffee
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> \o/ new Extra Credits
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2921-Tutorials-101
[17:04] <shauno> ugh.  'Based on your corporate access policies' blah blah blah
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> shauno: try again at home :)
[17:04] <shauno> it's no wonder I took a nap this morning.  they've managed to make the internets pretty boring
[17:13]  * screen-x goes home
[17:50] <Myrtti> my IRC is broken again
[17:51] <jpds> Myrtti: Clearly not.
[17:52] <Myrtti> jpds: I see you fixed it
[18:15] <bigcalm> http://yfrog.com/h346vyfj
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> purple? not green today? :)
[18:16] <bigcalm> I use a yellow highlighter, wouldn't work too well
[18:23] <popey> bug 664088
[18:23] <popey> can anyone see that?
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> "Page not found"
[18:24] <bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet?!
[18:28] <popey> NO!
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> :(
[18:30] <daubers> Evening
[18:30] <popey> Tomorrow I will likely be booking the OggCamp venue.
[18:30] <daubers> \o/
[18:30] <BigRedS> ooh! Does that mean there's a decided-upon date for it?
[18:31] <popey> there is
[18:36] <screen-x> oooh oogcamp date :D
[18:36]  * screen-x shakes popey till it falls out
[18:36]  * popey drops a 3
[18:36]  * screen-x theorises
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> 2038 :)
[19:00] <issyl0> Evening!
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> \o issyl0
[19:00] <issyl0> MartijnVdS: :-)
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> how are things?
[19:00] <issyl0> Good thanks - and with you?
[19:01]  * issyl0 tired and in the middle of a French essay (one of three - the other two I don't *have* to do though.)
[19:01]  * MartijnVdS is watching Youtube videos
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> work is exhausting :)
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> was*
[19:03] <issyl0> Sometimes.
[19:03] <issyl0> Ah, *was*.  :-(
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> well it's 20:00 -- not a time to be at work for me ;)
[19:04] <issyl0> MartijnVdS: Very true.
[19:05]  * issyl0 doesn't pay attention to the time much in the evenings.
[19:06] <DJones> issyl0: That sounds likeypical student attitude :)
[19:06] <DJones> s/likeypical/like a typical
[19:06] <issyl0> DJones: Hehe.
[19:07]  * issyl0 isn't one for going to bed at 3 in the morning and getting up at midday.
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> DJones: hm.. that would explain HazRPG's schedule as well :)
[19:07]  * issyl0 can't handle lie-ins.
[19:07] <screen-x> DJones: I didn't even see the error on first reading
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: I wake up at 6 -- whether I want to or not :)
[19:08]  * issyl0 has been waking up at half past six of her own accord for the past few days.
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: alarmless?
[19:09] <issyl0> Yep.
[19:09] <issyl0> Madness, but I enjoy getting up that early.
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> I've been living alarmless for years now.. I only set one for special occasions (so I don't miss a flight, for example :)
[19:09] <issyl0> Ah, right.
[19:09] <issyl0> Any particular reason why you wake up so early?
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> I think it's because it's 7 hours after I tend to go to sleep :)
[19:10] <issyl0> Ah - probably!
[19:11] <DJones> MartijnVdS: I'm about the same, I always wake between 5:30 & 6am
[19:11] <dutchie> i have been waking up at 11:30 ish all this week
[19:11] <dutchie> it is lovely
[19:12] <dutchie> (going to bed around midnight)
[19:12] <andylockran> howdy
[19:12]  * DJones kicks dutchie 
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> I stopped using my alarm clock when I noticed I always woke up 5-10 minutes before it was supposed to go off
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> and it stuck :)
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> dutchie: last time I slept longer than 7 hours was a 19:00-7:00 sleep after a 20km run :)
[19:13] <DJones> Heh, I still put my alarm on, to wake my wife up so she's not late :)
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> DJones: there must be more gentle ways to wake her up than a beeping alarm clock
[19:13] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Not that doesn't involve me getting a punch
[19:19] <issyl0> DJones: Hah!
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> sounds like a happy marriage ;)
[19:30]  * MartijnVdS wonders when natty will become less broken
[19:31]  * dwatkins gets an e-mail from BT who appear to have decided that the ADSL line is ok, which we already knew, but the router is still resetting each day
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> time to buy a new router ;)
[19:31] <ali1234> how do you know it is resetting?
[19:32] <ali1234> and not just disconnecting and reconnecting
[19:36] <dwatkins> the bt home hub was provided by BT, so I'm loathe to just replace it out of my own money, every couple days it fails such that all wifi devices can no longer see it until it's reset although cabled devices continue to be connected.
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> tweet angrily about it -- lots of companies monitor twitter now
[19:37] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm in touch with them because I complained on twitter ;)
[19:37] <dwatkins> @btcare
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> :)
[19:39] <freelore> dwatkins, i had a homehub that was exactly the same
[19:39] <dwatkins> aha freelore - did you replace it with a proper router?
[19:40] <freelore> dwatkins, it was the only way. the bt people just denied everything. infact, they insisted it was one of the best routers in the world. no joke.
[19:41] <dwatkins> freelore: I'm not surprised, I've dealt with at least three separate people so far (including the time I was threatening to cancel because they charged me 150 quid because the system decided I'd cancelled inside my 18 months), I'm thining my only recourse is to threaten to cancel at renewal time because they have supplied what appears to be defective equipment.
[19:41] <freelore> dwatkins, they kept telling me it was a minor problem with static electricity and the a software update would be forthcoming.
[19:42] <dwatkins> I'd be amazed if static electricity were to blame here, the router never gets touched except to reset it every 2 or 3 days (sometimes several times per day, however)
[19:42] <dwatkins> I think I'd rather just get a WRT54G and install the Tomato firmware for fun :D
[19:42] <freelore> dwatkins, i would never deal with bt again. never. the *worst* customer experience of my life.
[19:43] <dwatkins> I've not had too many issues with them from a customer service perspective, they just fail to understand and appreciate my problem.
[19:43] <dwatkins> mind you, that is the definition of a customer service failure...
[19:43] <dwatkins> ...they're just fairly polite and responsive about it :)
[19:44] <dwatkins> I have a Buffalo one somehere, perhaps I'll cable it in instead and see how well it performs
[19:45] <ali1234> it would be easier to just list the companies that have good customer service
[19:45] <ali1234> i can't think of any at the moment
[19:46] <freelore> dwatkins, they know how to talk the talk, but it all falls of deaf ears. i'd tell you mroe about it but, "oh, that's not my department -- i'll have to put you though. will you hold the line for a moment?"
[19:47] <ali1234> this pretty much sums up how customer service works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYTR280ji4g
[19:49] <freelore> dwatkins, too big, too many departments, all supervisors hide behind an excuse that they only make outbound calls so leave you waiting for a callback between 8am and 5pm -- you are not busy that day are you?
[19:50] <freelore> seriously, im not really one for irrational judgement but avoid BT at all costs.
[19:51] <freelore> i guess that touched a nerve for me. ;)
[19:52] <freelore> dwatkins, have you tried getting to the internet using just an ip of the website you are connecting to? that used to work for me.
[19:54] <freelore> i did ask them why it was that i could get out to the net using by typing an ip directly, yet dns queries were not able to resolve. they said it was static electricity again.
[19:54] <freelore> i guessed that maybe it was something to do with some kind of caching
[19:54] <ali1234> yeah routers these days like to run a dns cache
[19:55] <ali1234> you can hop straight over it
[19:55] <freelore> dwatkins, do you use bittorrent on your homehub?
[19:55] <ali1234> just tell your PC to ignore the DNS servers provided on DHCP
[19:55] <ali1234> bittorrent is a good way to kill any router that doesn't have custom firmware
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> bufferbloat.net :)
[19:55] <ali1234> for some reason router manufacturers are incapable of configuring linux kernel nat parameters in a way that actually works
[19:56] <ali1234> making this not happen is literally just a matter of tweaking some settings in proc
[19:57] <dwatkins> freelore: ironically, the connection dropped just as I was about to reply to you again
[19:58] <freelore> dwatkins, lol
[19:58] <dwatkins> freelore: when the problem occurrs, all wifi devices are unable to connect to wifi until the home hub gets reset
[19:59] <dwatkins> I think I have Google's DNS server set on my laptop, also.
[19:59] <directhex> you're putting me off Infinity here
[19:59] <freelore> dwatkins, i switched to virgin media -- though i use talktalk nowadays
[19:59] <dwatkins> directhex: I have BT's unlimited broadband tarif which cots me 23 pounds per month plus line rental
[19:59] <dwatkins> freelore: yeah, I would have used VM if I could have.
[20:00] <ali1234> you think BT customer service is worse than talktalk?
[20:00] <directhex> dwatkins, yeah, but they use a homehub for Infinity too
[20:00] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, no my schedule is because I make my own schedule
[20:00] <directhex> although any PPPoE router should work
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not because you're a student? :)
[20:00] <freelore> ali1234, i've never needed to call talktalk ;)
[20:00] <dwatkins> I work in customer services myself, so I know how they tend to work. The trick is to get through to someone in the UK who you can explain the problem to in full and they won't just respond with a link to a knowledgebase article and close your case.
[20:00] <ali1234> freelore: you're in for some fun if you ever do
[20:01] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Got a HND...
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, like I said.. student ;)
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> *runs*
[20:02] <freelore> ali1234, don't depress me :D
[20:07] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh... well I was doing a degree top-up as they call it (which is a year), but student financing has recently screwed that up for me because the uni has stupid rules :/. So they've essentially (paraphrasing) kicked me off because they weren't getting their money. Which resulted in me being unable to log in to anything at the uni (even the digital register to prove that I was there)... and bleh. Complicated. I'm getting work, currently hav
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> currently hav[cut off here]
[20:07] <HazRPG> I have experience in the field already anyways 1 year when I was doing the HND, and one year before doing that too (which I got just by chance)
[20:09] <HazRPG> If I can get there's site punched out quick enough, looks like I'll be having a good partnership with these 2 fellows (one does DB work, the other design)... and another guy I've done work with in the past, which was my reference point for the year experience that I got before doing my HND
[20:10] <HazRPG> I just need to get my self-employment sorted out (which I'm still doing research for) so that everything is sweet
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> self-employment is a lot of work imho :)
[20:11] <HazRPG> all else fails, my dad's been offering me a job in Saudi for years since he knows I'm more than capable for the job (he's seen me do it many times, and has even asked for advice to pass on to some of the nit-wits he has working for them)
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> always nice to have a backup plan
[20:13] <HazRPG> I'd rather just find work myself first and see how that works out... because I think I could do well for myself, but at least I know I have backup if all goes badly
[20:13] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed :)
[20:13] <Martiini> how do I search specific repository ?? does this look right -  aptitude search '~S ~i (!~Alaunchpad  ~O"kernel")'
[20:14] <HazRPG> I won't know what self-employment is like, till I've tried it... and since my name seems to be passed around because of friends my dad knows around this area, so far I haven't had trouble
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> it's easier to start off self-employed than to go self-employed when you already have a "normal" job
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> imho
[20:17] <freelore> anyone know how to add the volume applet back to the menubar? (ubuntu 10.10 desktop)
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> sound volume?
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> just add the indicator applet, it should be in there
[20:18] <freelore> MartijnVdS, yes. i removed it mistakenly.
[20:19] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, I did start off self-employed first, which landed me a year contract with a company... but they knew I was going to do my HND after that year, so they didn't renew on that basis - since they didn't want me to screw up my education
[20:19] <HazRPG> however self-employed in the sense that I did one job (cash in hand) type style
[20:19] <freelore> i can't seem to find it in the add to panel dialogue
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> freelore: the indicator applet?
[20:21] <freelore> MartijnVdS, yes the indicator applet. i didn't know it was both volume and also tied into the setup mail, broadcast, chat, etc.. stuff.
[20:22] <freelore> anyway to just have a volume control without that other main/broadcast/chat part?
[20:22] <HazRPG> anyways got my HND now... and another year experience (for unpaid work, because that's how HND courses go)... my name was passed from my tutor who started doing freelance stuff again after I finished my HND (long story), and so I've been in contact with those two - which is where the work I'm doing now is for... and they want more work, and also the guy I did work for the very first time has asked for more work now (almost 2-3 years later), which is 
[20:22] <HazRPG> I'll shush now lol
[20:22]  * HazRPG /endrant
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> haha
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> freelore: no, I don't think so
[20:23] <freelore> MartijnVdS, a pity. do you know the reason why they are combined?
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> freelore: that's a LONG story, read up on the Ubuntu/Canonical design team + their work for that
[20:24] <freelore> MartijnVdS, care to try giving me a brief synopsis?
[20:25] <ali1234> you can have "just" a volume control
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> freelore: The old "system tray" was overused/misused, and the new indicator API/applet replaces it. It's more menu-like.
[20:26] <ali1234> all you have to do is remove the indicator tray thing and go back to using the old one
[20:26] <freelore> MartijnVdS, thanks ;)
[20:27] <freelore> ali1234, thanks. its ok though, it doesn't sound like it's worth the hassle.
[20:27] <ali1234> it isn't
[20:27] <ali1234> i could actually remove the whole thing since none of it works anyway
[20:28] <freelore> i do like the way rhythmbox appears there compared to the old volume slider
[20:28] <ZoeR> Hei!
[20:29] <ZoeR> Was it something I said?
[20:29] <ZoeR> :D
[20:29] <ali1234> i don't use rhythmbox, empathy, evolution, gnome-bluetooth, or pulseaudio, so none of the indicator applet stuff works for me
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> luddite ;)
[20:29] <ali1234> it just sits on the screen taking up space
[20:30] <ali1234> i use spotify, pidgin, gmail, blueman, and alsa instead
[20:30] <ali1234> some are older, some are newer
[20:30] <ali1234> all are better
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> I disagree :)
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> except on the gmail bit
[20:32] <ZoeR> gmail is indeed lovely
[20:34] <freelore> here's one: if i swapped my motherboard, and boot from the same hdd, would all the hardware changed be detected? with new stuff added, old stuff removed and such? or would it be best to perform a clean install?
[20:35] <ali1234> you have all the drivers installed by default
[20:35] <ali1234> the only thing that will break is your network config if you have customized it
[20:36] <freelore> ali1234, no, just network manager. so their are no permanent configurations that are setup during install which would need to be changed?
[20:36] <ali1234> no
[20:36] <freelore> by permanent i suppose i mean 'hard coded' in the config
[20:36] <ali1234> well, video card settings maybe
[20:37] <freelore> i use a discrete ati card
[20:37] <DJones> I was just going to say if its built in video with different drivers could cause problems
[20:37] <ali1234> the installer itself does not make any hardware specific customizations
[20:37] <freelore> ali1234, useful to know.
[20:37] <ali1234> the restricted driver manager does, and network manager does, but only if you tell it
[20:38] <DJones> I've taken a drive from one machine and put it in a different one, it took a couple of reboots, but everything worked with no problems
[20:38] <ali1234> i do it regularly
[20:38] <ali1234> never had any problems
[20:38] <ali1234> the worst thing that can happen is xorg doesn't start
[20:39] <ali1234> then you just wipe the xorg.conf and try again
[20:39] <freelore> xorg config is dynamically generated when it isn't present isn't it?
[20:39] <ali1234> yes
[20:41] <freelore> i'll try that route then. with a sensible data backup plan before the upgrade -- whats the worst that can happen? :D the full reinstall i was planning on doing in the first place.
[20:43] <freelore> by the way, you folks are much better than google at these ubuntu questions :D thanks for all the help.
[20:44] <ZoeR> An ubuntu chatroom being better than google at ubuntu? Who would have guessed? :
[20:44] <ZoeR> :D
[20:45] <DJones> freelore: Do you have /home on seperate partition? If it is, that would reduce any problems on reinstall anyway
[20:45] <HazRPG> ZoeR: \o :)
[20:46] <HazRPG> DJones: I do :), I always setup my home on a separate partition as standard :)
[20:46]  * ZoeR should really do that some time
[20:46] <freelore> DJones, no i just went with the defaults at install and have a single large partition with everything in it
[20:47] <AlanBell> evening all
[20:47] <freelore> i was considering getting a second (much larger) hard drive and putting /home on there
[20:47] <ZoeR> evening
[20:48] <DJones> freelore: ok, you can reinstall specifying but telling the partition manager not to format which should save any data as well,although thats something I've never tried
[20:48] <DJones> specifying the original partition
[20:50] <freelore> DJones, so it would install *over* the files that already there?
[20:50]  * ZoeR has been looking at KolibriOS lately. Anyone ever tried it?
[20:50] <DJones> freelore: Yes, thats the idea behind it
[20:54] <HazRPG> AlanBell: meeting on soon right?
[20:54]  * HazRPG wondering why else my phone would be ringing away at this time if it wasn't
[20:55] <HazRPG> also, good evening AlanBell :)
[20:56] <DJones> Thats better
[20:57] <ZoeR> That's a lot of bans. Did I miss a trollfest or something?
[20:58] <DJones> ZoeR: No, just 3 from the same date a while back, I'd forgotten to remove them & when I did, it didn't quite work correctly
[20:58] <DJones> HazRPG: I get the feeling the meeting may have been forgotten about
[21:00] <popey> meeting in -uk-meeting btw :)
[21:00]  * HazRPG pokes people to join the meeting
[21:01] <ZoeR> what meeting?
[21:01] <ZoeR> Is this the super secret meeting of the new old new world order?
[21:01] <BigRedS> Oooh. That sounds more fun than the debugging of dovecot I came here for :)
[21:01] <ZoeR> My brain hurts
[21:01] <DJones> ZoeR: Its the ubuntu-uk regular meeting, join #ubuntu-uk-meeting if you want to take part
[21:02]  * ZoeR rubs her boozed-up head
[21:03]  * ZoeR really should avoid St Patrick's day
[21:04] <freelore> ZoeR, how much did you drink?
[21:04] <ZoeR> 2 cans
[21:05] <ZoeR> and yes that makes me sound like a lightweight
[21:05] <ZoeR> but i should point out that i'm not supposed to drink, so i think it's excusable
[21:05] <ZoeR> i have a note from my mum
[21:05] <ZoeR> it's not in my handwriting. honest.
[21:06] <freelore> 2 cans of what?
[21:07] <ZoeR> caffreys
[21:07] <ZoeR> I would have preferred guiness but the shop had run out
[21:08] <freelore> i use to quite like guiness myself
[21:08] <ZoeR> it makes me sneeze but at least it doesn't give me headaches, like this muck did
[21:09] <freelore> i gave up drinking a few months ago
[21:10] <ZoeR> Do you feel healthier for it?
[21:10] <freelore> i didnt have a problem or anything -- just prefer to be keep a clear head these days and thought; why not draw a line?
[21:10]  * ZoeR nods
[21:11] <freelore> yeah, much better
[21:11] <ZoeR> I usually don't drink but every now and then I'll have the odd one with friends
[21:11] <ZoeR> Then regret it for days after
[21:11] <freelore> yeah, i dont miss that at all
[21:12] <ZoeR> :)
[21:12] <freelore> i wasnt even a heavy drinker
[21:12] <ZoeR> I can't understand the people who go out and get bladdered every weekend.
[21:14] <freelore> nor me -- what is wrong with breaking / fixing linux installs? much more satisfying. if you do it too much you still get a headache, too. quite similar i'd say.
[21:14] <ZoeR> Yes but Linux is cheeper
[21:14] <freelore> 'free as in beer' as they say
[21:15] <freelore> not sure if the person who coined that phrase lived in the uk
[21:15] <ZoeR> I was thinking the same thing
[21:17] <freelore> dwatkins, homehub again?
[21:17] <ZoeR> welcome back
[21:20]  * bigcalm welcomes his new Alan overlords
[21:22] <AlanBell> bigcalm: resistance is futile
[21:23] <freelore> resistance will be embraced and extended
[21:23] <Picard> Resistance is not futile
[21:23]  * Picard goes a bit crazy and smashes up the ready room
[21:24] <freelore> Picard, Jean-Luc! I've got a good question for you.
[21:24] <Picard> Let's blow up the ship!
[21:24] <freelore> Seriously, I've been wanting to ask you for ages.
[21:24] <Picard> Yes, freelore?
[21:24] <freelore> Picard, really -- if I ever bumped into you -- I was going to ask.
[21:25] <AlanBell> capacitance has potential
[21:25] <freelore> Picard, the question is... the one I've been wanting to ask for, like, ever... is...
[21:25] <freelore> Picard, how many lights do you see?
[21:25] <Picard> There... are... four... lights!
[21:25] <freelore> lol :D
[21:26] <ZoeR> Sorry about that. Don't know what came over me.
[21:27] <freelore> I wish TNG never ended. But then again, All good things...
[21:28] <ZoeR> heh
[21:30] <freelore> still, the new movie was pretty good. and a sequel is in production.
[21:30] <ZoeR> Yes, the 2009 film was great. :)
[21:31] <ZoeR> However, I'm not sure I will ever be able to look at McCoy without thinking "Eomer, what have you done to your hair?"
[21:31] <ZoeR> And now McCoy is going to be Judge Dredd. What is the world coming to?
[21:31] <ZoeR> It's like one guy has suddenly become the nexus of my entire childhood.
[21:32] <freelore> i thought it was very, very, very well done. lots of stuff that would go over a non-fans head but without it being in the way.
[21:32] <ZoeR> My only problem with the new trek was vulcan. I still think that was unnecessary.
[21:32] <mgdm> indeed.
[21:33] <mgdm> Karl Urban was ace as McCoy, IMO
[21:34] <freelore> ZoeR, i thought it was very bold and brilliant
[21:34] <freelore> no one-on-one duels to the death under the vulcan sky though
[21:35] <ZoeR> Oh I'll grant you it was bold but, if I'm honest, it's not right up there with stuff I've seen so many times in comics over the years. We need something original, not something that is just there to initiate angst
[21:36] <freelore> angst? i was overjoyed! i can't stand the pointy-eared, green-blooded, inhuman...
[21:36] <mgdm> :D
[21:37] <ZoeR> angst for spork, not for you
[21:37] <ZoeR> spock, even
[21:38] <freelore> yeah i know what you're saying there
[21:38] <freelore> of all the things that i loved, the one thing that got to me was the motorola product placement
[21:39] <freelore> cheapened things a bit for me
[21:40] <freelore> i also loved that it was a prequel, sequel and reboot all in one
[21:43] <ZoeR> yes, that was a nice touch
[21:43] <ZoeR> well I'd better be going. House is on in 15 minutes and I have to record it or my wife will kick my arse
[21:43] <ZoeR> cya later, everyone
[21:51] <daubers> Uuuhhhh... someone said I had an action??
[21:51]  * daubers is very confused
[21:52] <HazRPG> hmm... apparently I'll be controlling Mootbot-UK next week !
[21:53] <HazRPG> daubers: action?
[21:53] <daubers> I was hilighted in -meeting, something about being actioned for something
[22:02] <alexcockell> BBC just reported - UN are now voting..
[22:03] <alexcockell> Hopefully NATO will bonb the fuck out fo Gadaffi
[22:03] <jacobw> !language
[22:03] <alexcockell> Sorry
[22:03] <alexcockell> Just been a tad angry... fromt he humanitatian aspect
[22:03] <jacobw> I think it was justified to be fair ;)
[22:04] <alexcockell> Sorry about the typos - just a tad hacked off at the delay - but we need the whupping to be legal..
[22:05] <alexcockell> But I hope he'll be waking up to lots of cratered runways... and BLU-755s ruining his day...
[22:09] <alexcockell> Sorry - was also connected to Telecomix's server - and hadn't toniced where the focus was..
[22:09] <alexcockell> *noticed
[22:12] <BigRedS> bah. Gnome's save dialog doesn't do command substitution
[22:16] <freelore> best way of getting an ipod nano to work with ubuntu?
[22:16] <ali1234> install rockbox on it
[22:17] <AlanJenkins> gtkpod or what ali1234 said if there is support =)
[22:17] <freelore> ali1234, tried. i can't with this model.
[22:18] <AlanJenkins> not tried with a recent nano but i have had luck with my iphone with gtkpod so am guessing it should work for a nano
[22:18] <freelore> is virtualbox + windows + itunes just daft?
[22:18] <AlanJenkins> nope that works but its a faff
[22:18] <dwatkins> hackintosh dual boot? ;)
[22:19] <AlanJenkins> dwatkins: that sounds like more fun if your computer is hackintosh compatible
[22:19] <AlanJenkins> never had any luck myself though
[22:19] <dwatkins> AlanJenkins: if you're prepared to replace the wifi adapter, the Eee 1005HA is very hackintoshable.
[22:19] <freelore> prob inappropriate but where can i find a hackintosh iso?
[22:20] <ali1234> "the usual place"
[22:20] <dwatkins> freelore: an Apple store ;)
[22:20] <freelore> understood
[22:20]  * dwatkins is using a Macbook Pro right now to talk to you lot, so is understandably a little pro Apple
[22:20] <AlanJenkins> cool, I have a macbook pro that I bought last week now though =) (what i am talking on)
[22:20] <freelore> i like apple, but they are too expensive for me
[22:21] <AlanJenkins> lol snap dwatkins =)
[22:21] <dwatkins> I considered triple-booting this MBP like my other half did, but it seems like a lot of hassle when I'll probably not use 2/3rds of the OSs much, I prefer having a virtual machine available
[22:21] <AlanJenkins> not dual booted this yet though, you got yours in ubuntu?
[22:22] <dwatkins> Also, sound doesn't work on this model under Ubuntu yet
[22:22] <dwatkins> if you go for triple boot, backup everything first
[22:22] <freelore> and get a bigger disk
[22:24] <AlanJenkins> 750gb in this one should  be fine =), not checked on hardware support yet though, dwatkins was the sound not supported in the latest mbp? or are you talking about the gen before?
[22:24] <AlanJenkins> possibly same chip though =/
[22:24] <dwatkins> AlanJenkins: i have a core2duo, also she got a 750 gb disk too
[22:25] <freelore> 750 in a mdp?
[22:25] <freelore> *mbp
[22:25] <AlanJenkins> yep freelore its one of the new i7 17inch ones
[22:25] <freelore> thats a lot of data to leave on the train
[22:26] <freelore> wb ZoeR
[22:26] <AlanJenkins> wb ZoeR
[22:26] <ZoeR> Thanks :)
[22:26] <dwatkins> freelore: she also has a 1.5 TB external backup disk
[22:26] <ZoeR> Erk! It's hard to type on this phone app. :(
[22:26] <freelore> i hope the MoD don't start using them
[22:27] <freelore> not the way they lose laptops
[22:27] <ZoeR> Did I miss much?
[22:28] <AlanJenkins> on the subject of macbook pros now ZoeR
[22:28] <AlanJenkins> otherwise no not really
[22:28] <ZoeR> Ah right.
[22:29] <freelore> i was just talking about the new mbp with the 750gb hard drive. thats a lot of data to leave on a train.
[22:29] <dwatkins> freelore: this is what we got her, it seems to work fine in her 15" MBP which is now triple booted (yes, including Ubuntu): http://www.dabs.com/products/seagate-750gb-momentus-7200rpm-sata-300-16mb-2-5--78YB.html
[22:30] <AlanJenkins> nice
[22:30] <AlanJenkins> good cache size on that disk =)
[22:30] <dwatkins> it was the only 750 GB disk I could find which was supported
[22:32] <AlanJenkins> best thing about this thing though for me is the battery life, longest i have ever had in a laptop =)
[22:33] <dwatkins> the difficult part was triple-booting, as windows stomps all over the master boot loader and you have to be very careful of the partition order
[22:33] <dwatkins> AlanJenkins: try a 1005HA Eee ;)
[22:33] <AlanJenkins> whats the life on that one dwatkins ?
[22:34] <dwatkins> in practical terms about 8 hours, although the blurb says 10.5
[22:34] <AlanJenkins> yikes thats nice
[22:34] <AlanJenkins> this ones blurb says 7 but i get 5ish
[22:35] <dwatkins> I have a 901 Eee and it's great but a bit slow now, and I had to get a huge battery for it to make it useable
[22:35] <ZoeR> Bah. Got to go.
[22:36] <AlanJenkins> kk catch you later ZoeR
[22:36] <dwatkins> ciao
[22:38] <duvelhedz> Happy st Paddys day everyone!
[22:39] <dwatkins> woohoo
[22:40] <popey> hmm?
[22:40] <ali1234> is there a library for language detection in the repos?
[22:41] <duvelhedz_> Who is coming to the rugby meet up on Sat?
[22:44] <AlanBell> fail
[22:44] <mgdm> o_O
[22:44] <AlanBell> duvelhedz_: list is here http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/
[22:47] <AlanJenkins> right guys i have to run
[22:47] <AlanJenkins> catch you again soon
[22:48]  * daubers dislikes politics
[22:50] <dwatkins> there was politics?
[22:50] <dwatkins> I must have been busy doing the washing-up.
[22:50] <daubers> If anyone is any semblance of awake, can I have soe eyeballs on this please? It appears I was actioned to write this lot down :) http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UUKElectionProcess
[22:53] <shauno> sucker :p
[22:53] <daubers> shauno: I seemed to have been volunteered
[22:58] <daubers> I'll throw that etherpad out to the mailing list so it can have more eyeballs, then I can go to bed having done the first part of that action
[22:58] <shauno> I'd try to nitpick, as it seems to be all I'm good for.  but I couldn't possibly claim to be awake atm
[22:59] <daubers> heh, that's why I'll send it to the list and let people nitpick over the next few days
[22:59] <shauno> lesson learnt; don't volunteer to be oncall between 12hr shifts.  it's just stupid.
[23:05] <daubers> Email away!
[23:11] <freelore> anyone know about rhythmbox settings?
[23:12] <freelore> it seems mine is unable to transfer songs to my ipod if they are in m4a format
[23:12] <freelore> it claims the ipod can't play them
[23:12] <freelore> and that it can't transcode them
[23:12]  * daubers heads to bed
[23:12] <freelore> but ipods can play that format ;)
[23:13] <freelore> is there something i'm missing?
[23:18] <freelore> all im really finding on google is a load of howtos written for people who *want* to convert m4a to mp3
[23:19] <freelore> im inches away from getting off windows + itunes :S
[23:22]  * dutchie pokes daubers with excess apostrophes in ML post
[23:24] <bigcalm> Is REGEX a MySQL only function?
[23:27]  * dutchie pokes daubers with lots of spelling typos in the etherpad (and fixes)
[23:28] <freelore> anyone have any idea where i might find an answer?
[23:28] <freelore> google is just throwing up forum posts from 2007 / 08
[23:28] <freelore> i guess this issue has been solved?
[23:29] <dutchie> freelore: the first step i'd take is checking to see how many gstreamer-plugins-<something> packages i had installed
[23:30] <freelore> dutchie, which would you advise?
[23:31] <dutchie> as many as possible :)
[23:32] <freelore> switch to the multiverse variants?
[23:32] <dutchie> though someone with more knowledge would be able to give a better, more specific answer
[23:32] <dutchie> you may well need to
[23:32] <freelore> i see
[23:33] <freelore> i really don't know but it seems to me to be more a case of rhythmbox just not being aware of the formats the ipod can play (assuming it can only play mp3, thus needing to convert songs on-the-fly)
[23:34] <freelore> as though all it would take is a setting somewhere, that i would be able to change ".mp3" to ".mp3;.m4a"
[23:34] <freelore> know what i mean?
[23:34] <dutchie> yeah, ipods are a pain on linux
[23:36] <freelore> it updates the database fine
[23:36] <freelore> just seems to think it can't play m4a
[23:37] <shauno> I believe faad is in the gstreamer 'bad plugins' package
[23:38] <shauno> (faad takes care of aac/m4a & I believe apple-lossless too)
[23:39] <freelore> but would that be required for rhythmbox to transfer the files to the ipod?
[23:39] <freelore> rhythmbox can 'see' the files just fine
[23:39] <freelore> plays them, etc.
[23:39] <shauno> not sure in that case :)
[23:40] <freelore> yeah, strange isn't it?
[23:40] <jacobw> is evolution going to be the default mail client in natty?
[23:40] <shauno> (it would need to be able to play them, or atleast parse their metadata to write the ipod's db, but you've already got that far)
[23:40] <freelore> shauno, exactly
[23:41] <freelore> i'll have to live with transcoding them to mp3 each time i sync
[23:41] <freelore> which seems wrong
[23:42] <freelore> hopefully the next version of ubuntu will have this problem fixed
[23:42] <shauno> are the tracks purchased from the itunes store by any chance?
[23:42] <freelore> unless its not a problem and i just don't know how to reconfigure it :D
[23:42] <freelore> but people seem to be complaining about this behaviour since 2007
[23:43] <freelore> shauno, no. they drm free.
[23:44] <jacobw> is it excessive to keep 8000 emails?
[23:44] <freelore> jacobw, are they all for those blue pills?
[23:44] <freelore> if so, yes
[23:45] <shauno> I used to have about 12 years' worth, but lost them in a silly accident :)
[23:45] <jacobw> i will read them one day..
[23:46] <jacobw> high volume mailing lists, i assume someone must use evolution to handle this volume of email
[23:46] <jacobw> *someone else
[23:48] <ali1234> i get about that many emails per week from mailing lists, evolution cannot cope at all
[23:49] <ali1234> nor can any email client i ever tried for that matter
[23:49] <freelore> this transcoding thing is really bugging me  -- anywhere else i could look for an answer?
[23:49] <dutchie> freelore: banshee :)
[23:49] <ali1234> transcoding?
[23:49] <dutchie> or some other client
[23:51] <freelore> ali1234, syncing my ipod with rhythmbox, rhythmbox tells me that the ipod doesn't support m4a and wont transfer the tracks -- but it will dynamically transcode them to mp3
[23:51] <ali1234> ah
[23:51] <ali1234> dunno about that
[23:51] <freelore> ipods popularised the m4a format, didn't they?
[23:52] <freelore> i mean, huh??
[23:52] <ali1234> can't say i have ever heard of it, so yeah
[23:52] <hamitron> m4a?
[23:52] <ali1234> i use ffmpeg to transcode things manually
[23:52] <freelore> m4a, aac+mp4 container renamed to m4a
[23:53] <freelore> thing is, i don't need to transcode
[23:53] <freelore> the ipod supports the format
[23:55] <freelore> what! i just spent 20 minutes transcoding my library and now there is nothing on the pod?! i give up.
[23:55] <ali1234> lol
[23:55] <ali1234> tried gtkpod?
[23:55] <slackthumbz> you could get a media player that doesn't suck...
[23:56] <freelore> yeah but it is a bit awkward
[23:57] <freelore> slackthumbz, yeah there is that. i had hoped to liberate it with rockbox. no such luck. apple encrypt the bootloader on these later models to prevent just that.
[23:57] <slackthumbz> typical apple :(
[23:57] <slackthumbz> I just use my phone,it's an n900 and has 32gb of storage built in + supports ajust about every media format I've ever heard of
[23:58] <ali1234> hmm encrypted bootloader is really the only roadblock to rockbox?
[23:58] <ali1234> sounds like a challenge
[23:58] <freelore> plus reverse engineering
[23:58] <shauno> it's really not worth the fight.  rockbox is aweful.
[23:58] <freelore> and apple lawyers, i believe
[23:59] <HazRPG> I keep reading that, what is rockbox?
[23:59] <ali1234> custom firmware for mp3 players
[23:59] <freelore> its a firmware replacement for media players
[23:59] <ali1234> no proprietary file transfer nonsense
[23:59] <freelore> pretty crude but quite capable
[23:59] <ali1234> just drag and drop the files to the flash drive