mhall119itnet7_: double ping01:52
mhall119RoAkSoAx: this is going to be your first UDS as an employee, right?01:52
* crashsystems <3 Linode02:04
ShawnRfor creating a raid via mdadm, by uuid, do i just put the uuid where i'd normally put /dev/sda1 or do i need to tell it somehow that i'm using a uuid?03:08
RoAkSoAxmhall119 yep03:23
RoAkSoAxmhall119 any concerns?03:25
mhall119RoAkSoAx: nope, just wondering if you used their travel provider last time03:32
RoAkSoAxmhall119 yeah all uds' ive been and sprint i went i used it03:54
RoAkSoAxthey are good03:54
RoAkSoAxif u planning to use AA let me know and maybe we can go together i also told itnet7 if he gets sponsored03:55
mhall119RoAkSoAx: cool, that's kind of what I was hoping13:06
reya276Morning Everyone14:00
chayniereya276: Morning14:01
maxolasersquadAnyone know of a cool open source java program.  A coworker wants to contribute to one.14:30
maxolasersquadI'm thinking Android apps are probably the best way for Java developers to contribute to open source.14:34
reya276iostat is pretty cool14:51
tiemonsterjava != cool15:20
maxolasersquadtiemonster: I know, it is just what he is vested in.15:23
tiemonstersad soul15:23
tiemonsterthere's Jenkins15:24
reya276Java = Cool!15:28
maxolasersquadHe's a career-oriented programmer.  Java is a good language if you want to be marketable.15:29
reya276.NET, C# !=Cool!15:29
maxolasersquadI actually don't dislike java, just java applications.15:29
reya276Anything that stifles innovation towards open standards and FREE community is not cool15:29
maxolasersquadreya276: Anything that runs slowly and consumes an inordinate amount of resources is not cool.15:33
reya276no man Java has made strides when it comes to that when was the last time you've used it15:34
tiemonster20 seconds ago15:36
reya276the Hardware and tech today is more than capable of running any Java application smoothly and fast if you know what your doing. The thing is Java when it was designed and conceived was way ahead of the Hardware hence why it was slow. Also there were tons of adjustments which needed to be made which have made it to what it is today15:37
tiemonsterit sucked up RAM like nobody's business15:37
reya276dude what ever it is your doing, something must be wrong with it15:38
tiemonsterjava promotes over-verbosity and over-engineering15:38
tiemonsterit's Tomcat. there's a lot wrong with it.15:38
tiemonster100s startup time is not acceptable15:38
tiemonsterthere's not another application server on the planet that takes that long15:38
tiemonsterwell, at least that I've used15:39
reya276yeah I don't use Tomcat, Apache works great for what we need15:39
tiemonsterfor java?15:39
reya276we use CF which is Java Base 100%15:39
reya276and JSP which is also Java Base 100%15:40
reya276al CF/JSP is a bunch of tags and functions based on Java15:40
reya276it could also be a configuration issue with the server have you guys looked in to that15:41
reya276the CF server can process JSP tags/Languge/Pages you know that, so if you are using JSP you could use CF/Apache to output your JSP pages15:43
reya276it takes a bit of configuration but it can be done15:44
maxolasersquadreya276: The idea that I'm using these Java applications wrong is silly.  I'm not argueing the details.  It just remains that when an application is written in Java it has a tendancy to use more resources and run slower than their counterparts written in other languages.  Java also integrates with its host OS very poorly.15:50
reya276huh, I never stated that you were using it wrong I stated that maybe there could be a misconfiguration with the server, never said anything about you using it wrong or anyone. I simply gave you an alternative to using Tomcat if you are using JSP pages.15:52
reya276Well in our case it does not appear to be so. I'm sorry that you guys are having those kind of issues15:54
maxolasersquadreya276: I'm referring to thick client apps.17:10
reya276you mean thin client17:10
maxolasersquadThe Java application I use most is SQL Developer.17:10
reya276again like I said it depends what it is your doing17:11
maxolasersquadTechnically, it works in a client/server relationship, but its not the server end that I have a problem with.17:11
maxolasersquadI'm using the application as intended.  Connecting dbs, modifying and viewing db objects.17:11
reya276but you were complaining about Tomcat, oh wait that was Tiemonster right17:12
maxolasersquadBut its not just SQL Developer, it is most every Java application I have ever used.17:12
maxolasersquadreya276: Correct.17:12
reya276oh what DB are you using17:12
maxolasersquadCalibre does seem to be an exception to the rule.17:12
reya276oh I c17:12
reya276see I'm using MYSQL so the MYSQL workbench/Designer works extremely fast and great. Now I'm not sure if that is Java based or not17:13
reya276see I'm think when he made a reference to tomcat that it was about Java apps that were web based17:14
reya276Desktop that is not my realm as I have Zero clue17:15
reya276Not affraid to admit it17:15
maxolasersquadI'm just speaking from a very general user-based perspective.  In general the Java desktop apps I've used have been memory intensive and slow.17:15
mhall119maxolasersquad: that's mostly because java apps don't use the same system libs all your other apps do, they have to load their own17:24
mhall119there have been java-based desktop systems where all the JVM stuff stayed resident in memory, and running a new java app didn't require much extra memory17:25
mhall119but when you run a java app in it's own JVM, you're essentually running a virtualized guest OS for that one app17:26
mhall119albeit a very light-weight guest OS17:26
maxolasersquadDoes anyone else see Python errors when I am replied to?17:32
maxolasersquadmhall119: If one java app is running with IcedTea, then do all other apps running with IcedTea share the JVM?17:33
mhall119maxolasersquad: no, though they will probably share the memory space used by the jvm files17:36
chayniemaxolasersquad: Didn't see the post, resend please?17:36
mhall119but each will have it's own internal memory space which will be different17:36
chayniemaxolasersquad: err, what?17:36
itnet7_mhall119: Hey there!17:42
mhall119hey itnet7_ 17:42
itnet7_I finally got sort of caught up with the Log, Between Birthdays and Working off-site.17:46
=== itnet7_ is now known as itnet7
maxolasersquadCould someone do me a favor and respond back with my name?18:02
MichelleQmaxolasersquad: howdy18:03
maxolasersquadMichelleQ: Woot, works.  Thanks.18:04
MichelleQNo problme!18:04
maxolasersquadAn extension I have installed was causing Python errors each time someone responded to me.18:04
MichelleQI've apparently developed an accent when I type. 18:04
reya276maxolasersquad, I you see What I have done because I have experience slow application when using OpenJDK is that instead I use the Sun JRE plugin and JVM and then the apps tend to perform normally. so maybe that could be the case18:12
maxolasersquadreya276: I just recently switched to OpenJDK.  The two share 95%+ of the codebase.18:13
reya276but for some reason somethings on the web don't seem to recognize OpenJDK or its JRE like they do Sun's18:16
reya276my daughter uses this app called reading plus and it only started working until she switched it to the Sun JRE18:17
reya276so it is weird but most web based thing and even desktop apps only seem to work well when its Sun's JVM or JRE which like you said is crazy but its what I have experienced18:18
maxolasersquadreya276: There are some libraries that Sun could not open source because of IP owned by others.  IcedTea is simply those bits rewritten under an open license.  The way I understand it, if there is an issue, then it is in those bits.18:20
maxolasersquadmhall119 probably knows more about it than me.18:20
maxolasersquadOh, and the Sun java compiler is proprietary, so IcedTea include an open source compiler.18:21
mhall119maxolasersquad: when Sun created OpenJDK, it was to be the codebase for Java 718:26
mhall119IcedTea is, iirc, a backport of that code to be Java 6 compatible18:26
mhall119some bits of openjdk were re-written by Sun to get around IP problems, other bits were ported from GNU Classpath for IcedTea18:27
mhall119it got kind of messy18:27
mhall119also the Sun JRE shipped with a bunch of com.sun.* packages that I don't think are in OpenJDK/IcedTea18:28
maxolasersquadmhall119: Isn't OpenJDK ran against the same unit tests as the Sun proprietary java?18:29
mhall119maxolasersquad: I'm not sure, I don't know of it ever passed java certification to be honest18:30
maxolasersquadI thought that someone said it was certified with Sun to be 100% compatible.18:31
maxolasersquadWhich is why Canonical felt confident with dropping it from 10.10.18:32
mhall119I think Canonical dropped it from Ubuntu because Debian dropped it18:34

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