[01:52] <mhall119> itnet7_: double ping
[01:52] <mhall119> RoAkSoAx: this is going to be your first UDS as an employee, right?
[02:04]  * crashsystems <3 Linode
[03:08] <ShawnR> for creating a raid via mdadm, by uuid, do i just put the uuid where i'd normally put /dev/sda1 or do i need to tell it somehow that i'm using a uuid?
[03:23] <RoAkSoAx> mhall119 yep
[03:25] <RoAkSoAx> mhall119 any concerns?
[03:32] <mhall119> RoAkSoAx: nope, just wondering if you used their travel provider last time
[03:54] <RoAkSoAx> mhall119 yeah all uds' ive been and sprint i went i used it
[03:54] <RoAkSoAx> they are good
[03:55] <RoAkSoAx> if u planning to use AA let me know and maybe we can go together i also told itnet7 if he gets sponsored
[13:06] <mhall119> RoAkSoAx: cool, that's kind of what I was hoping
[14:00] <reya276> Morning Everyone
[14:01] <chaynie> reya276: Morning
[14:30] <maxolasersquad> Anyone know of a cool open source java program.  A coworker wants to contribute to one.
[14:34] <maxolasersquad> I'm thinking Android apps are probably the best way for Java developers to contribute to open source.
[14:51] <reya276> iostat is pretty cool
[15:20] <tiemonster> java != cool
[15:23] <maxolasersquad> tiemonster: I know, it is just what he is vested in.
[15:23] <tiemonster> sad soul
[15:24] <tiemonster> there's Jenkins
[15:28] <reya276> Java = Cool!
[15:29] <maxolasersquad> He's a career-oriented programmer.  Java is a good language if you want to be marketable.
[15:29] <reya276> .NET, C# !=Cool!
[15:29] <maxolasersquad> I actually don't dislike java, just java applications.
[15:29] <maxolasersquad> ;)
[15:29] <reya276> Anything that stifles innovation towards open standards and FREE community is not cool
[15:33] <maxolasersquad> reya276: Anything that runs slowly and consumes an inordinate amount of resources is not cool.
[15:34] <reya276> no man Java has made strides when it comes to that when was the last time you've used it
[15:36] <tiemonster> 20 seconds ago
[15:37] <reya276> the Hardware and tech today is more than capable of running any Java application smoothly and fast if you know what your doing. The thing is Java when it was designed and conceived was way ahead of the Hardware hence why it was slow. Also there were tons of adjustments which needed to be made which have made it to what it is today
[15:37] <tiemonster> it sucked up RAM like nobody's business
[15:38] <reya276> dude what ever it is your doing, something must be wrong with it
[15:38] <tiemonster> java promotes over-verbosity and over-engineering
[15:38] <tiemonster> it's Tomcat. there's a lot wrong with it.
[15:38] <tiemonster> 100s startup time is not acceptable
[15:38] <tiemonster> there's not another application server on the planet that takes that long
[15:39] <tiemonster> well, at least that I've used
[15:39] <reya276> yeah I don't use Tomcat, Apache works great for what we need
[15:39] <tiemonster> for java?
[15:39] <reya276> we use CF which is Java Base 100%
[15:40] <reya276> and JSP which is also Java Base 100%
[15:40] <reya276> al CF/JSP is a bunch of tags and functions based on Java
[15:40] <reya276> *all
[15:41] <reya276> it could also be a configuration issue with the server have you guys looked in to that
[15:43] <reya276> the CF server can process JSP tags/Languge/Pages you know that, so if you are using JSP you could use CF/Apache to output your JSP pages
[15:44] <reya276> it takes a bit of configuration but it can be done
[15:50] <maxolasersquad> reya276: The idea that I'm using these Java applications wrong is silly.  I'm not argueing the details.  It just remains that when an application is written in Java it has a tendancy to use more resources and run slower than their counterparts written in other languages.  Java also integrates with its host OS very poorly.
[15:52] <reya276> huh, I never stated that you were using it wrong I stated that maybe there could be a misconfiguration with the server, never said anything about you using it wrong or anyone. I simply gave you an alternative to using Tomcat if you are using JSP pages.
[15:54] <reya276> Well in our case it does not appear to be so. I'm sorry that you guys are having those kind of issues
[17:10] <maxolasersquad> reya276: I'm referring to thick client apps.
[17:10] <reya276> you mean thin client
[17:10] <maxolasersquad> The Java application I use most is SQL Developer.
[17:11] <reya276> again like I said it depends what it is your doing
[17:11] <maxolasersquad> Technically, it works in a client/server relationship, but its not the server end that I have a problem with.
[17:11] <maxolasersquad> I'm using the application as intended.  Connecting dbs, modifying and viewing db objects.
[17:12] <reya276> but you were complaining about Tomcat, oh wait that was Tiemonster right
[17:12] <maxolasersquad> But its not just SQL Developer, it is most every Java application I have ever used.
[17:12] <maxolasersquad> reya276: Correct.
[17:12] <reya276> oh what DB are you using
[17:12] <maxolasersquad> Calibre does seem to be an exception to the rule.
[17:12] <maxolasersquad> Oracle
[17:12] <reya276> oh I c
[17:13] <reya276> see I'm using MYSQL so the MYSQL workbench/Designer works extremely fast and great. Now I'm not sure if that is Java based or not
[17:14] <reya276> see I'm think when he made a reference to tomcat that it was about Java apps that were web based
[17:15] <reya276> Desktop that is not my realm as I have Zero clue
[17:15] <reya276> Not affraid to admit it
[17:15] <maxolasersquad> I'm just speaking from a very general user-based perspective.  In general the Java desktop apps I've used have been memory intensive and slow.
[17:24] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: that's mostly because java apps don't use the same system libs all your other apps do, they have to load their own
[17:25] <mhall119> there have been java-based desktop systems where all the JVM stuff stayed resident in memory, and running a new java app didn't require much extra memory
[17:26] <mhall119> but when you run a java app in it's own JVM, you're essentually running a virtualized guest OS for that one app
[17:26] <mhall119> albeit a very light-weight guest OS
[17:32] <maxolasersquad> Does anyone else see Python errors when I am replied to?
[17:33] <maxolasersquad> mhall119: If one java app is running with IcedTea, then do all other apps running with IcedTea share the JVM?
[17:36] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: no, though they will probably share the memory space used by the jvm files
[17:36] <chaynie> maxolasersquad: Didn't see the post, resend please?
[17:36] <mhall119> but each will have it's own internal memory space which will be different
[17:36] <chaynie> maxolasersquad: err, what?
[17:42] <itnet7_> mhall119: Hey there!
[17:42] <mhall119> hey itnet7_ 
[17:46] <itnet7_> I finally got sort of caught up with the Log, Between Birthdays and Working off-site.
[18:02] <maxolasersquad> Could someone do me a favor and respond back with my name?
[18:03] <MichelleQ> maxolasersquad: howdy
[18:04] <maxolasersquad> MichelleQ: Woot, works.  Thanks.
[18:04] <MichelleQ> No problme!
[18:04] <maxolasersquad> An extension I have installed was causing Python errors each time someone responded to me.
[18:04] <MichelleQ> I've apparently developed an accent when I type. 
[18:12] <reya276> maxolasersquad, I you see What I have done because I have experience slow application when using OpenJDK is that instead I use the Sun JRE plugin and JVM and then the apps tend to perform normally. so maybe that could be the case
[18:13] <maxolasersquad> reya276: I just recently switched to OpenJDK.  The two share 95%+ of the codebase.
[18:16] <reya276> but for some reason somethings on the web don't seem to recognize OpenJDK or its JRE like they do Sun's
[18:17] <reya276> my daughter uses this app called reading plus and it only started working until she switched it to the Sun JRE
[18:18] <reya276> so it is weird but most web based thing and even desktop apps only seem to work well when its Sun's JVM or JRE which like you said is crazy but its what I have experienced
[18:20] <maxolasersquad> reya276: There are some libraries that Sun could not open source because of IP owned by others.  IcedTea is simply those bits rewritten under an open license.  The way I understand it, if there is an issue, then it is in those bits.
[18:20] <maxolasersquad> mhall119 probably knows more about it than me.
[18:21] <maxolasersquad> Oh, and the Sun java compiler is proprietary, so IcedTea include an open source compiler.
[18:26] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: when Sun created OpenJDK, it was to be the codebase for Java 7
[18:26] <mhall119> IcedTea is, iirc, a backport of that code to be Java 6 compatible
[18:27] <mhall119> some bits of openjdk were re-written by Sun to get around IP problems, other bits were ported from GNU Classpath for IcedTea
[18:27] <mhall119> it got kind of messy
[18:28] <mhall119> also the Sun JRE shipped with a bunch of com.sun.* packages that I don't think are in OpenJDK/IcedTea
[18:29] <maxolasersquad> mhall119: Isn't OpenJDK ran against the same unit tests as the Sun proprietary java?
[18:30] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: I'm not sure, I don't know of it ever passed java certification to be honest
[18:31] <maxolasersquad> I thought that someone said it was certified with Sun to be 100% compatible.
[18:32] <maxolasersquad> Which is why Canonical felt confident with dropping it from 10.10.
[18:34] <mhall119> I think Canonical dropped it from Ubuntu because Debian dropped it