=== widox_ is now known as widox
jjessehow's michigan today?00:25
snap-lIt's happening. :)00:34
jjessesounds like fun :)00:36
widoxits warm here!00:39
jjesse75 in florida today LP00:40
jjessewow i can't type00:40
greg-grick_h_: dude, congrats on teh fabric commits/authorship00:53
jjesseyay for rick_h_00:54
jjessewhat is fabric?00:54
gamerchick02gonna watch some tv00:59
gamerchick02see everyone tomorrow00:59
jjessewhat is the version of libreoffice that is going to shp w/ ubuntu 11.04?01:16
rick_h_greg-g: thanks :)01:56
greg-gnixternal: yo, fix your blog! :) There is a link from this page to you blog that 404s http://taskwarrior.org/wiki/taskwarrior/AddOns02:10
nixternalgreg-g: fixed, thanks for that heads up. .htaccess FTW!   redirect 301 /category/gtd /tag/gtd05:26
wolfgerI see Jono's been hacking on Captcha.... one of today's words was "Community"11:39
brouschhm, did rick_h_ inspire the qtile lightening talk at pycon? http://panela.blog-city.com/pycon_2011_thoughts.htm11:48
greg-gnixternal: awesome :)12:15
wolfgerWhee. Fun.13:06
wolfgeris it, still?13:12
greg-gfor a bit13:38
rick_h_everyone cross your fingers I don't get molested today13:39
* greg-g ponders the meaning of that13:39
_stink_oh, airplane13:39
binbrainrick_h_, score dude, you interviewed Chris McD13:39
rick_h_binbrain: heck yea13:40
rick_h_and mark ramm, and Michael Foord13:40
rick_h_need to get Mark ramms out here before I leave13:40
wolfgerMolested? LoCoCast has crazed groupies?13:42
rick_h_I have to get on a plane in 4 hours13:42
wolfgerMan, how can anybody be productive when they have to use Microsoft products?13:43
wolfgerIt's maddening?13:43
wolfgerI mean, heaven forbid you actually highlight exactly what you want....13:46
wolfgerMicrosoft knows better than you, and will automatically highlight more than that13:46
wolfgerwhether you like it or not13:47
wolfgerso many wasted keystrokes13:47
rick_h_gah, can't find a good image for something13:52
rick_h_don't want to just rip something off google images :/13:52
_stink_conjure brousch to make you one13:52
brouschmy magical inkscape powers are ever at your disposal13:53
greg-grick_h_: flickr CC search not working?13:54
rick_h_greg-g: well it's not built for it13:54
rick_h_it's all good, just ranting my disappointment13:55
wolfgersave it for the podcast ;-)13:56
rick_h_more pycon awesomeness for you all http://lococast.net/archives/43614:07
rick_h_thanks for all of your RT and such spreading the word14:07
nixternalruby developers always tell me, 'once you start coding with ruby, you will realize python sucks and you will never go back'.   well I have recently been trying to learn ruby, and i must say...it isn't fun to learn, i still want to go back to python, i am not enjoying this learning process :/14:19
nixternalyeah, this is the ChiPy channel :/14:20
rick_h_lol, that's ok, we can agre14:20
rick_h_ruby looks great for sysadmin scripts14:20
rick_h_but I'd not want to build a big app with it14:20
nixternali am interested in learning a little rails and playing with it14:20
rick_h_ugh, good luck14:20
nixternali could care less about ruby so much, but need to know a little ruby in order to understand rails14:20
rick_h_give me pyramid over RoR any day14:20
nixternalwell, DHH is a friend, and the other night while we were out he kept messing with me about Linux and Python, so i figured I would give it a try14:21
rick_h_the world is not AR and deployment/performance matters14:21
snap-lRuby was the first language I looked at after Perl / Java.14:22
snap-land after those languages, Ruby looks quite nice14:22
nixternali like java14:22
snap-lbut once I broke my brain with Python, Ruby feels more like a hack than anything14:22
nixternalhey bastard snap-l. listening to an old lococast via amarok, and you just said you were on vacation in naperville. prick, that's where i live14:23
snap-lPython is a virus. ;)14:23
snap-lnixternal: orly? :)14:23
snap-lnixternal: Shit. I was over at the hotel next to Alcatel / Lucent.14:23
nixternalpretty much, yes. i can get there by bike in about 15 minutes14:23
nixternaloh yeah, dumb ass, we talked about that14:23
snap-lWell, I'll likely be back there in the future14:24
snap-lso I'll call you. :)14:24
nixternalmost def14:24
wolfgersnap-l: Python is a virus; Perl is the cure?14:24
snap-lantidote, yes. Cure, not sure. ;)14:24
rick_h_psh, perl is that disease all the rich people are funding to find a cure for so it never exists any more :P14:25
wolfgerand, "Gee... I can't imagine why you didn't give a shout-out to nixternal when you were in town, considering how kindly he speaks to you..." :-)14:25
snap-lrick_h_: We'll just keep on playing with our dead language, thank you.14:25
brouschperl, the malaria of programming languages14:25
snap-lAnd when you run into something that you can't do with any other language, you'll know what emergency handle to reach for. ;)14:25
nixternalshush wolfger14:25
rick_h_I'll just go use awk, I respect it14:25
nixternali woke up way to freakin' early this morning14:26
MilyardoWhats wrong with perl?14:26
wolfgerIt sucks for GUI programming14:26
snap-lrick_h_: You'll use awk and not Perl?14:26
rick_h_I'm a hater, I like to have an array of hates and perl lost out in the programming space14:26
nixternalnothing to be honest. i just suck at regex, so perl hasn't always been my best friend14:26
rick_h_snap-l: kind of being a bit funny14:26
snap-lWho's the crazy now, rick_h_ ?14:26
* rick_h_ pokes pokes the buttons14:27
snap-lchallenge accepted. ;)14:27
rick_h_ok, so checkout isn't until noon, have time to eat cheap food outside the airport now. yay14:27
snap-lHurray for not having to eat a $10 bagel and coffee!14:28
wolfgerAirports: You'll give up your basic human rights, and pay through the nose for the privelage.14:31
jrwrenanyone use campfire for chat?14:46
jrwrenplz dont' talk smack about perl. its beautiful.14:47
rick_h_ nope, we're a jabber shop14:50
jrwrensnap-l: what challenge did you accept?14:52
jrwrenyou use a jabber to irssi bridge?14:52
jrwrenbitlbee at all?14:52
rick_h_yea, I use that14:52
snap-ljrwren: rick_h_ was pushing my buttons, so I accepted his challenge. ;)14:53
rick_h_but for work use pidgin because we do strange dns stuff for our jabber server at work14:53
jrwrenI found a campfire to jabber bridge... but it feels strange to use 2 bridges14:53
rick_h_but use bitlebee for google chat, etc14:53
rick_h_woot, tether ftw16:40
snap-lworking on lococast foo. ;)16:43
snap-lI also just made the best into transition of my entire career. :)16:44
wolfgerpycon = lococast foo; penguicon = lococast bar?16:44
snap-lwolfger: But of course.;)16:44
snap-lYay, cloudkicker CD arrived in the mail!16:45
jrwreni'm super annoyed that there are not any actual claims there.16:53
jrwrenits a load of pontification16:54
snap-lSince when have facts gotten in the way of an argumentative FUD article?16:54
jrwrenno idea.16:55
snap-lIt's some "IP Activist" looking to stir up some shit about Android16:55
jrwreni really hope this goes to court and is judged upon, not settled.16:55
jrwrenbecause if the court rules in fav of google, it will open up copyright and redefine fair use.16:56
snap-ljrwren: Oh come now, that's not how we play in the new economy16:56
jrwreni know.16:56
snap-lnothing is ever final; just a lot of accusations and quiet settlements16:56
jrwrenI know ;_;16:56
snap-lcourts cost money. Settlements cost less money16:57
jrwreni've never heard of htis bionic. sounds like a port of old bsd libc to run on modern linux kernel.16:57
snap-land you don't lose in a settlement16:57
jrwrenman, I remember hte libc5 to libc6 move... *sigh*16:57
snap-lyou too?16:57
jrwrenI know ;_;16:57
snap-lThat was fuuuuun16:57
jrwrensnap-l: it was so not fun... but I learned a fuck ton migrating a system.16:57
wolfgeruh... wtf?16:59
rick_h_woot, getting massive RT run16:59
jrwrenactually... the really bad part is that if entire APIs are (C)able... things like Wine will be dead and gone16:59
wolfgerGoogle may have copied some GPL stuff, ergo Angry Birds might have to release its code?16:59
jrwrennot to mention that GNU impl of nextstep16:59
wolfgerI don't get that16:59
jrwrenwolfger: read the whole article, they do eventually make a point.17:00
jrwrenclicking the download link on saveie6.com is funny17:01
wolfgerjrwren: working on it. Just wanted to toss my wtf out there before the discussion dies :-D17:01
snap-ljrwren: heh17:02
snap-lAmazon is currently having a problem with their storage network, Please stand by.17:05
snap-llove, reddit.17:06
wolfgerI don't get it...17:06
snap-lThat's the current error message on reddit17:06
jrwrenpoor amazon17:06
wolfgerhe's claiming that nothing can contain Linux header files without being GPL'd, yet Google created Bionic from libc which is BSD, not GPL.17:06
jcastrosnap-l: today is permanent waves day for me17:07
wolfgerso is libc also under attack here?17:07
jrwrengoogle bionic... why didn't they just use ulibc ?17:07
jrwrengoogle's use of libc is underattack, yes.17:07
wolfgerI also love how he firmly founds his argument on what Linus said, and then quietly admits "Neither Linus nor I are lawyers."17:08
jrwrenoh, ulibc is lgpl.. i didn't know... not that it should mater.17:08
jrwrenthen he cites 2 lawyers. keep reading.17:08
wolfgerfirst lawyer "points out that he hasn't examined the facts"17:10
snap-ljcastro: Awesome. :)17:13
wolfger"If a court of law finds that the Bionic library indeed contains copyrightable GPL'd software, the distribution of all software compiled against Bionic -- and of devices containing such software -- will have to stop until there is full compliance with the GPL."17:13
wolfgerThat's a huge difference from the earlier BS statement that Angry Birds and Adobe Flash would have to give up the source.17:14
tjagodaI have to design a web database which holds product configuration info17:14
tjagodawhat existing product can I most easily hack into doing this?17:14
snap-lThat's like saying that Corel had to OSS Word Perfect because it linked with libc17:15
snap-lOld arguments, new players17:15
snap-lAll we need is someone saying that 2011 is the year of the Android phone, and we'll be living la vida 199617:17
snap-ler, 1999. ;)17:18
wolfger2011 is the year of the Linux phonetop. XD17:19
tjagodaNobody has suggestions for how to make my custom app design easier17:22
tjagodaHow dare you all not been immediately suited to my needs17:22
wolfgerThat article really sounds a lot like "SCO ownz all ur Linux". s/SCO/GNU/ && s/Linux/Android/17:26
wolfgerLots of general comments regarding vague claims.17:27
wolfgerOne non-lawyer who said something years ago before Android exists, one lawyer guessing possibilities while not actually studying the discussed situation...17:28
wolfgerWhy did I waste precious minutes of my life reading that?17:29
wolfgerOh, right, jrwren kept saying I should keep reading. :-p17:29
jrwrenthere is a good legal analysis of it.17:30
jrwrenyes, this time by a lawyer17:31
jrwrenwolfger: Adobe Flash and EVERYTHING on a phone compiled against Bionic, which would then have to comply with GPL.17:31
jrwrenso it was a valid statement.17:31
jrwrenDalvik would have to be GPL17:31
jrwrenso everything writing in JAva for Dalvik would have to be GPL17:31
jrwrenso everything in the Android storewould have to be GPL17:32
jrwrenremember, this is a "virus" license :)17:32
jrwrensnap-l: libc isn't GPL, its LGPL17:32
jrwrenso its nothing like saying corel had to OSS WordPerfect17:32
wolfgerlibc is BSD licensed17:33
jrwreni said glibc didn't I?17:33
jrwrenoh sorry.17:33
wolfgerBionic was built from libc, according to previous waste-of-time story17:34
snap-ljrwren: Right, but there was a confusion for a while about what linking to glibc meant.17:34
jrwrensnap-l: only confusion by the completely uninformed.17:34
snap-lgee, there's a surprise. ;)17:34
snap-lI remember one argumen that folks made for not porting things to Linux was because you had to GPL your code with was BS17:35
wolfgerright.... what snap-l said17:36
jrwrenit is GPL, not LGPL, my bad.17:36
wolfgerIf Adobe doesn't have to release Flash code for Flash on Linux, why would they have to release it for Flash on Android?17:37
wolfgerAlso, I don't think it would stand up in court that "well, the library you used was actually GPL, and not what it claimed to be, so now you must GPL your software too."17:37
jrwrenyou aren't reading correctly.17:38
snap-l@cjoh: Don't understand why the NYTimes doesn't put a picture of Jimmy Wales at the top and just ask people for money.17:38
wolfgerIf that worked, FSF would be out there falsely releasing "safe" libraries all over the place, then saying "Whoops! That library was a violation of GPL. Now the entire world must release source code."17:38
snap-lwolfger: Yeah, because RMS is a plotting SOB17:39
wolfgertinfoil hats do that to people17:39
snap-lIt's the end of the world as we know it17:40
_stink_crap, i missed an IP law discussion?17:40
snap-land I feel FIIIIIIINNEEE17:40
_stink_oh, still going on.17:40
wolfgerjrwren: OK, if I'm not reading correctly, please tell me (without use of a URL) how we get from "Google might be infringing copyright" to "3rd party vendors will have to release source code"17:40
jrwrenwolfger: ugh, I don't want to quote copyright law to you and then paste you the GPL17:41
wolfgerSo in other words... I'm reading it exactly right, and just not coming to the conclusion that fool on that blog came to.17:43
wolfgerThe non-lawyer righting about copyright issues on a patent blog.... :-/17:43
wolfgerack s/righting/writing/17:43
snap-lpatent and copyrght law is like interpretive dance17:43
snap-leveryone does it differently, and interprets it differently.17:44
jrwrenand history.17:44
jrwrenevery GPL settlement has been resolved by righting hte GPL wrong.17:45
snap-lmostly because few people want to be considered as a dick17:45
wolfgerah, history...  Good. So you have some example from history of somebody who had to release source code because suddenly a library he used was forced to become GPL?17:45
jrwrenin this case that would mean GPL of android and bionic and thus dalvik too17:46
jrwrenwolfger: yes, see linksys case.17:46
snap-lesp when you are relying on the charity of others.17:46
jrwrenalthough google does have enough $$$, they could give every linux contributor who makes a claim $1,000,000 and get a private license that way.17:47
binbrainjrwren: didn't that happen with busybox as well, forgot the company17:47
jrwrenbinbrain: yes.17:47
tjagodaPoll:  Best language to write a custom business web app which takes information from humans and stores it into a historical database?17:47
brouschtjagoda: your question was lost in the angry froth. MS Access is what you need17:47
jrwrentjagoda: C#17:47
tjagodaAnd also no17:47
tjagodaNo machine level nonsense17:47
_stink_tjagoda: LOLCODE17:48
jrwrenby historical it sounds like you mean temporal17:48
jrwrentemporal databases can be a real bitch.17:48
jrwrenC# is not "machine level"17:48
tjagodaI would much rather script it than literally code it17:48
tjagodaIts also a web app17:48
tjagodaWhich will probably handshake mysql17:48
brouschso, a mostly pre-built database-backed webapp?17:49
jrwrenscript it v. code it.  I don't understand the difference.17:49
Blazeixat the risk of being /kickbanned from #ubuntu-us-mi, sharepoint?17:49
_stink_i was waiting for someone to say that.17:49
brouschsome sort of cms will get you most of the way there: plone, drupal17:49
tjagodaI hate sharepoint17:50
tjagodaWe use sharepoint for document libraries17:50
binbrainsharepoint is the worst17:50
jrwreni said C#, not sharepoint.17:50
jrwreni never recommend sharepoint17:50
wolfgerjrwren: I see one huge difference there. Linksys sells hardware, not software. To fight it and switch chips would have had a huge economic impact on them. Adobe would much more likely say "screw you" and pull Flash off the Android market. Wouldn't cost them a penny to do so.17:50
tjagodajrwren: I am not talking to you17:50
tjagodaWas responding to blazeix17:50
snap-lwolfger: And it would be one less platform for Flash to be on17:51
jrwreni was responsing to Blazeix too17:51
snap-lwolfger: And Adobe needs Android to stay competitive in the mobile market.17:51
brouschtjagoda: maybe even a wiki17:52
tjagodaI think it would be hard to get a good interface in a wiki17:52
brouschwell see, this is why we need more information :P17:52
BlazeixI'm not a fan of sharepoint, either, but if you don't want to code, and want a web-form that keeps track of history, you're going to be stuck with a kludge of an application.17:53
jrwrendo you really need a temporal aspect?17:53
jrwrenor do you just need CRUD?17:53
Blazeixbrousch: large, clumsy17:54
brouschi don't see why keeping track of history makes something big and clumsy17:54
Blazeixbrousch: it's not just the snapshot history that makes it clumsy, it's all the other requirements, too.17:56
Blazeixnamely a platform to make a custom business app that doesn't require coding.17:56
brouschyes, that one is the big issue i see17:57
brouschcustom requires coding17:57
brouschunless you go with ms access, where you might not need to touch actual code17:58
brouschbut then it's not a webapp17:58
brouschtjagoda: YOU ASK THE IMPOSSIBLE17:59
wolfgerI'd like a custom app, without having to do any coding. I'd also like oxygen without breathing,  sustenance without eating, and inebriation without alcohol.18:00
Blazeixwell, it's possible, you'll just be stuck with a large application like plone or sharepoint18:02
brouschthen hire jrwren to write it for yu ;)18:02
wolfgerThere are frameworks that allow you to pretend you're building a custom app without coding... But really they just hide the code behind a pretty GUI, and also limit the customizability of the resulting app.18:03
Blazeixwell, of course. Everything boils down to code in the end.18:03
jrwrenMS has a product coming out for htis called lightswitch.18:05
jrwrenits web based multiuser access.18:05
* brousch wonders if jrwren is serious or joking18:05
wolfgerit does sound like a punchline is coming, doesn't it?18:06
brouschdamn, it is a real thing18:06
wolfgerI mean, the name "Lightswitch" is practically begging for one18:06
wolfgerOK, now that GPL wars are out of our system, let's move on to something less controversial. How does everybody feel about nuclear power? :-p18:10
_stink_it's a good thing.18:10
wolfgerI just love the way the media uses disasters and even *potential* disasters to play up people's fears18:11
snap-lI'm sorry, but when I hear people say that we stand with Japan, I can't help but think of the lyric "I think I'm turning Japanese"18:11
* snap-l slaps himself18:11
wolfgernuclear power plants produce lots of energy with relatively little polution, but ZOMG what if a 9.0 earthquake damages it?!?18:12
wolfgersnap-l: I really think so18:12
snap-lSee? see?18:13
jrwreni was actually being serious. i wasn't actually recommending its use.18:13
jrwrenwolfger: there was a GPL war?18:14
jrwreni must have missed it.18:14
wolfgerI overstate things18:14
jrwrenme too18:14
wolfgercan't we all just get along?18:15
wolfgers/along/drunk at Penguicon/18:15
snap-lQuick note: Rio Grande Games gets an A+ from me for their handling of Race for the Galaxy.18:28
snap-lSomeone wrote a GPLed version of it, and they allowed him to use the artwork from the cards18:28
snap-lIt's nice to see someone not served with a takedown notice for using someone elses content.18:32
jrwrenthe charlie clouser remix of nine inch nails ruiner is awesome.18:33
jrwreni serve takedown notice with my fists18:33
jcastrosnap-l: watch the wah wah documentary I just shared18:33
jcastroit's +++18:33
snap-ljcastro: I will.18:34
Blazeixanyone tried this? http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/gtk-32-will-let-you-run-any-application.html20:16
ColonelPanic001no, but looks interesting20:53
binbrainBlazeix: that's pretty sweet21:08
snap-ljcastro: You need this guitar: http://thenumberoftheblog.com/2010/03/16/why-i-fucking-hate-m-a-n-despite-never-having-heard-them/21:08
jcastrowhat is that21:09
snap-lhttp://decafbad.net/2006/03/14/take-it-in-your-hands-and-grasp-natures-majesty/ <- Looks like something from this collection21:10
gamerchick02i've seen those in the mail and newspaper21:48
snap-lseriously? Are they as bad as they seem?21:49
gamerchick02what? the knives?21:49
gamerchick02i've never seen any in person, but the do look redneck-chic21:49
snap-lAh, I thought you'd seen them in person21:49
gamerchick02no no no.21:49
gamerchick02in the newspaper and those mailer things you get from the post office21:50
snap-lI am sorely disappointed21:50
snap-lYeah, that's where I saw that21:50
gamerchick02jesus christ on a pogo stick those are freaky21:52
gamerchick02and yes, i have a gif of JC on a pogo stick. i've used it on tumblr. quite handy21:53
snap-lYeah, me too21:53
jcastroHEY CRAIG21:58
jcastroand gamerchick0221:58
jcastroyou might need to fullscreen it to get the effect. :)21:59
gamerchick02hi jcastro, what's up?21:59
jcastrostefano's made it so you can just search Ask right from the dash21:59
jcastroand it'll search and return stuff21:59
jcastroaka. live help for the win21:59
gamerchick02hrm. cool. i've gotta update on the netbook, but after Saturday.22:00
jcastroit's ok he's only just working on it now and it's all insane to install it anyway22:00
gamerchick02is there going to be a Beta soon?22:00
gamerchick02of Natty, i mean?22:00
jcastroof the place22:01
jcastrobeta's on the 24th or something iirc22:01
gamerchick02sweet. i think i'll wait til then. :)22:01
jcastroit's just so cool22:01
jcastroit will be so nice22:01
gamerchick02you're really excited for Unity, aren't you?22:02
gamerchick02i'm a little more reserved, but i'm looking forward to the changes. i'll be writing up a lengthy blog post about my experiences on my netbook and my laptop.22:02
jcastroI was talking about the Ask place22:04
jcastrobut yeah, I guess Unity too22:05
gamerchick02oh. whoops.22:05
jcastrothough I'm a browser guy22:05
jcastroI am a fan of anything that gets out of my way22:05
gamerchick02Chrome all the way over here.22:05
jcastrome too22:06
gamerchick02well, and chromium sometimes. and i've installed the FF beta.22:06
gamerchick02or, release candidate, rather.22:09
snap-ljcastro: That's intersting22:09

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