shaunolast time I tried it, it had none of that power-management nonsense either.  got a month out of it before I needed to break into my ipod to replace the battery00:00
HazRPGwow, that puts new meaning to stuff I've been reading recently00:00
freelorewhat have you been reading?00:00
HazRPGhardware hacks00:00
ali1234yeah power management is always the last thing to get implemented and it really hurts things like mobile distros00:00
shaunolp claims this rhythmbox thing was fixed in 10.0400:00
ali1234for example meego-n90000:00
freeloreshauno, oh?00:01
ali1234no power management = can't use it as a phone00:01
shaunobug 164265 looks like the one?00:01
lubotu3Launchpad bug 164265 in Rhythmbox "Transferring AAC files to iPod is broken" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16426500:01
ali1234not a mobile phone anyway00:01
shaunopower management should be the first thing they get working in mobile devices, not the last00:01
slackthumbzaye, that's why I'm sticking with maemo on my n900 till meego has matured00:01
shaunobecause a mobile device with a flat battery has zero features.00:02
ali1234shauno: i agree, and i told the meego-n900 people same on several occasions :)00:02
ali1234but seems like the people who can actually fix it (nokia) are more interested in making the n900 a development platform than an actual usable device00:02
slackthumbznokia have jumped into bed with MS00:03
ali1234they still have a lot of resources in meego00:03
freeloreali1234, you gotta emulate to accumulate00:03
freeloreor something00:03
slackthumbzunsurprising considering that Stephen Elop is an ex-MS guy with a ton of shares in, you guessed it,MS00:03
ali1234slackthumbz: he also sold macromedia to adobe :)00:03
freelorenokia making a mobile app platform00:04
freelorecopying the trends00:04
slackthumbzali1234: can't say I like the guy, he seems to be a complete idiot00:04
freeloren/m, i was rambling just then00:04
ali1234freelore: ah yeah, that's not what i mean00:04
shaunonokia's so hung up on this ecosystem thing they seem to think completely passed them by, but in the process has kinda forgot to ship any compelling products.  and they wonder where they're going wrong00:04
ali1234freelore: what i mean is they see it as a device for developers only, ie always tethered to a development box and power supply, so PM is not important00:04
ali1234that's the impression i get anyway00:05
shaunothat's just going to teach third-party devs to be as bad as they are, if everyone's working to the assumption power's never an issue00:05
ali1234shauno: nothing new there :(00:06
alexcockellWhat - AGAIN?00:06
ali1234they will do that anyway00:06
shaunoI've seen inside my phone.  it's 3/4 battery.  power is the only issue.00:06
alexcockellSo a battery life of 1-2 days like with the N900?00:06
ali1234alexcockell: no00:06
ali1234alexcockell: a battery life of 1-2 hours and the CPU running at max all the time00:07
alexcockellWhat use is that?00:07
slackthumbzyou might get 1 - 2 days if you hardly use it00:07
alexcockellI *USE* my N900..00:07
ali1234no, because even if you don't use it, it will currently run the CPU at maximum power, and not power off any devices00:07
ali1234i'm sure it will get fixed eventually00:08
slackthumbzwell, 1 - 2 days on maemo. I've not tried meego yet.00:08
ali1234but it should have been fixed first not last00:08
* alexcockell facepalm00:08
ali1234if meego had the same PM as maemo it would be fine00:08
ali1234but currently it has none at all00:08
ali1234(on n900)00:08
alexcockellUmm - why on earth did they blow so much time changing all the substrate like power mgt etc?00:08
alexcockelland package mgt?00:08
ali1234alexcockell: because they wanted to just switch to using moblin and moblin used rpm00:09
ali1234meego is pretty much moblin renamed00:09
hamitronali1234: weren't you suggesting I got a N900? ;/00:09
slackthumbzjust don't use meego00:09
hamitroneven though it is shit?00:09
ali1234maemo is OK00:09
freeloreanyone got an opinion on the sansa clip+?00:09
slackthumbzand the n900 is an awesome phone00:10
ali1234maemo isn't perfect but it mostly works and some parts of it are awesome true00:10
ali1234meego is still nowhere near ready on the n900 though00:10
ali1234remains to be seen what the nokia mystery device will be like00:10
slackthumbzphysical keyboard + xterm on a phone is incredibly handy for me00:10
freelorehaven't nokia jumped into bed with ms + wp7?00:10
slackthumbzali1234: whatever it is it'll run WP&00:11
ali1234but they still are commited to releasing 1 meego device00:11
hamitronI don't need a phone to be a phone, but N900 costs a lot00:11
slackthumbzand therefore will be a total waste of hardware00:11
ali1234of course that could change... nobody really believes anything nokia says anymore00:11
ali1234also they have not even confirmed the 1 meego device will be a phone00:11
ali1234could be a tablet, could be a netbook, could be a digital TV receiver... could be some crazy device nobody even thought of00:12
freelorei think they have lost the plot00:12
hamitronthey have to offer some higher end devices with other OS, purely to attract developers of apps for their low end phones?00:12
HazRPGshauno: bit late... but its like saying "the playstation has no games!"00:12
alexcockellMy N900 is on a Carphone Warehouse O2 contract - before O2 reduced the 3G data limits00:12
slackthumbzalexcockell: mine too00:12
freelorewhat are they going to do with Qt now they are all but ms's hardware division?00:13
shaunoHazRPG: I don't follow00:13
ali1234freelore: ironically, they are going to port it to android :)00:14
hamitronwon't they need Qt for low end phones?00:14
freeloreali1234, they sound desperate. trying anything, see what sticks.00:14
ali1234freelore: the irony is that Qt people wanted to port to android officially but couldn't because it would look odd for nokia... but now nokia is with MS, they can...00:15
hamitronaren't they intending to still ship symbian phones though?00:15
ali1234symbian isn;t low end00:15
freeloresymbian has seen better days00:15
shaunoI think desperate's a pretty apt word for it.  they've just seem the biggest cashcow in the market just completely overtake them overnight00:15
hamitronwindows phone 7 does look interesting to be fair00:16
ali1234i prefer my symbian phone to my n900 for typical use00:16
slackthumbzhamitron: it's barely beta in terms of feature completeness00:16
ali1234the email client is miles better for example00:16
hamitronslackthumbz: and android is a moving target00:16
slackthumbzdoesn't touch ios, android or even maemo00:16
ali1234(see earlier complaint about how nothing can handle my mailbox)00:16
freelorei've never seen a symbian phone that didn't feel underpowered00:17
ali1234symbian^3 runs super fast00:17
ali1234it's really smooth compared to maemo00:17
hamitronI like symbian the best tbh00:17
ali1234but stuff like S60 5e really ruined symbian's reputation00:18
freeloreisn't symbian^3 the one thats not to be confused with the rather old symbian 3?00:18
ali1234the symbian numbering makes no sense at all00:18
ali1234don't even try to understand it00:18
freelorea bit like ferrari f1 cars00:19
hamitronor most cars ;/00:19
ali1234it makes even less sense than the way ati and nvidia number their video cards00:19
hamitronand cpu00:19
hamitronand gpu :D00:19
freeloreor even apu00:19
hamitronandroid has really been over hyped though, imo00:20
freeloretho i thought apu had already been taken by the sound card people00:20
hamitronmy symbian phone makes phone calls.... I can develop apps, also have an ovi store00:21
freeloreovi store... lol00:21
freeloreits no apple app store00:21
ali1234yeah, ovi store... it's no fun00:21
hamitronovi store is good tbh00:21
ali1234it has so many usability problems...00:21
freelorewell, it works. put it that way.00:21
hamitronalso get free sat nav00:22
freelorethats becoming standard everywhere00:22
ali1234the mapping tech they bought it pretty good00:22
freelorestill prefer google maps though00:22
hamitrondoesn't android need online access for google maps?00:22
hamitronso no good on a budget00:22
freeloreoh yeah mean offline sat nav?00:22
hamitronyeh, ovi maps is offline00:23
freelore*yeah = you00:23
popeythere are offline maps apps on android00:23
freelorei didn't know that00:23
ali1234ovi maps is both00:23
popeymost use openstreetmap00:23
hamitronpopey: as good?00:23
hamitronah, ok00:23
ali1234it will download maps you don't have, or you can preload them, and all the maps are free00:23
popeyi never found ovi maps to be any good00:23
ali1234the ovi maps program on n900 suuuuuuuuucked00:24
hamitronI've travelled many miles with ovi maps00:24
ali1234the symbian one is much better00:24
HazRPGshauno: never, can't find where you said something similar but for different platforms00:24
hamitronmain thing that puts me off android, is all the OS versions00:25
freeloreyes, and the 'will i get the update' lottery00:25
hamitronI don't expect to have to upgrade OS so often00:25
shaunoI still find that funny00:26
shaunoapple tell you you're due 2 OS upgrades past what you bought, people get mad.00:26
shaunoandroid leave you guessing ...00:26
hamitronboth suck ;)00:26
freelorenot forgetting the 'yes, the updates are coming.' rumours00:26
* hamitron rubs his nokia ngage00:26
* ali1234 listens to some fleetwood mac00:27
freelorei'm waiting for the iphone nano00:27
freeloreyou know itll happen00:27
hamitronno micro first?00:27
dwatkinsfreelore: I'd like a badge that's a phone00:27
freeloreyeah, with a delta shield man!00:28
freeloreand gold trim00:28
hamitronI want a phone with an i3 cpu00:28
ali1234why not atom?00:29
ali1234those are actually available00:29
ali1234not on a budget though00:29
hamitroni3 would double up as hand warmers00:29
ali1234so does atom :/00:29
hamitrona commamd line phone ftw00:29
freelorewith a battery that comes in a stylish holdall00:29
* HazRPG plays on his dreamcast00:30
hamitronuse the "call" command to dial00:30
ali1234that's pretty much meego right now :)00:30
hamitronit has won me over then00:30
ali1234i threatened to make a ncurses dialer interface for ofono before00:30
ali1234maybe i should actually do it00:31
hamitronif you have a phone so poor, nobody would want it, no gf can read private texts, nobody would want to steal it00:31
dwatkinsThere are plenty of terminal applications for Android, can you not dial from the command line?00:31
hamitronremove the GUI entirely!00:31
freeloreif your gf reads your private texts, you should get a new gf00:32
* dwatkins looks this up on iphone 00:32
dwatkinsfreelore: why not just get texts she can read?00:32
freeloreor maybe if she reads your private texts, you will *need* to get a new gf00:32
hamitronlucky for me I am so useless at using my phone, nobody ever texts me00:32
freeloredwatkins, i wasn't advocating it ;) just sayin'00:32
slackthumbzor you could, y'know, have a relationship built on trust and mutual respect for each others privacy...00:32
hamitronit is always orange txting me to say i have no qualified for magic numbers this month00:33
freeloreslackthumbz, what are you -- some kinda new ager?00:33
slackthumbzI hate hippies00:33
freelorewith your crazy ideas about trust and respect00:33
freeloreno place for that in a marriage00:34
slackthumbzcrazy sandal-wearing motherf***ers00:34
hamitronthe lack of trust makes it interesting anyway00:34
freeloremarriage is no less than mental warfare00:34
slackthumbzI've managed to avoid marriage quite succesfully so far00:34
shaunoin a desperate attempt to drag this back to 'somewhat on-topic', I'll let you know I love my iphone, and think you're all nuts :)00:35
hamitronshauno: "love"? ;/00:35
freelorei was joking by the way ;)00:35
slackthumbzshauno: lol, I'll never buy a device I have 'jailbreak' just to use in a way that I want to.00:35
* hamitron hands popey a bottle of calpol00:36
slackthumbzhave to*00:36
freeloredo you think a truly open phone will exist?00:36
slackthumbzperhaps, maemo isn't bad. If meego actually matures into a decent system then yes.00:37
shaunolet me know when you find a telco that aren't evil, with an unhealthy dose of "lost, confused, and not entirely sure how to package the internet as minutes"00:37
hamitronif you build one, it mainly could. apart from a few IC00:37
shaunothen we can worry about a phone that makes use of them :)00:37
slackthumbza fair point00:38
hamitronisn't the interweb Mb now?00:38
slackthumbzmine is00:38
slackthumbz1gb per month included in my conract00:38
hamitron1 quid for 24 hours use on mine iirc00:38
shaunohamitron: sure.  I get n many minutes, n many texts, and n many megs.  hence 'trying to package them as minutes'00:39
freelorei love the fair user stuff. "unlimited internet, limited to exactly 1000mb"00:39
hamitronbut I just use my DSL through bluetooth00:39
shaunoand heaven forbid you try to use another country's internet00:39
slackthumbzheh, I'm in the philippines right now. Haven't seen any mobile broadband so far00:39
shauno(I did that once, that vacation cost me more in phone bills than hotels)00:40
slackthumbzbut then again the infrastrtucture here is more 3rd world than yorkshire00:40
hamitronleave yorkshire out of it00:40
slackthumbzmonty python reference00:40
freeloreand now for something completely different00:41
slackthumbzg'night all00:41
freelorenight slackthumbz00:41
hamitronlike minecraft me thinks00:41
freelorei should be going too. i'll never be up in time to take the kids to school at this rate. night all.00:41
freelorethanks for all the help, btw00:42
shaunofunny you should mention that, I'm losing my mind digging a huge subway tunnel atm :(00:42
hamitronshauno: where?00:42
shaunoin the floor man00:42
shaunoI gotta say, tunnels aren't very interesting endeavors.  it feels like being stuck in an Aniston commercial00:46
shaunoso, if you dig a tunnel so far that it exceeds the render distance, it doesn't tail off into darkness.  the 'fog' is sky coloured (and night-coloured, and sunset colour, as appropriate at the time).02:05
shaunoso it's official.  "the light at the end of the tunnel" is a bug.02:05
ali1234i have rooms that big02:05
directhexi built a map that big in half-life once :p02:06
shaunonever played halflife :/02:06
shaunoI'm fairly sporadic with games.  I'll play the same things for year on end, while the rest of the world passes me by02:07
shaunoabout the only pattern to them so far is that shooting people in the face just ain't my thing02:08
shauno(zombies, however, are perfectly acceptable.  it's not a fps thing.  just not a fan of war/reality-based shooters.  gimme quake :)02:09
kaushalAny good apps for task/event available in Ubuntu ?06:06
kaushalI mean task reminder06:06
kaushalchecking in again for the query ?06:43
popeykaushal: it was 6AM when you asked, chances are people are asleep / commuting07:33
kaushalpopey: apologies07:33
kaushalpopey: I have tasque but it doesnot have popup or reminder07:37
kaushalCan you please suggest something ?07:37
kaushalMyrtti: I do not use Evolution07:38
kaushalI mean any desktop apps07:38
kaushalanyways fine07:38
MichealH`Hmm... When I switched servers I didnt come here xP07:42
AlanJenkinsmorning all07:57
AlanJenkinsmorning AlanBell hows things mate?07:58
AlanJenkinsmorning TheOpenSourcerer07:59
TheOpenSourcereris it?08:00
=== WillyWonka is now known as kirrrus
DJonesHappy Friday, almost the start of the weekend08:15
MooDoowell done AlanBell08:20
screen-xmorning :)08:40
DJonesHeya screen-x08:41
screen-xmorning DJones :)08:42
screen-xI'm feeling quite alert this morning, had 10 hours sleep! much better than the 4 I had yesterday.08:43
screen-xAlso no phone interview to stress about today :)08:43
DJonesThat will certainly reduce the stress levels08:44
=== kirrrus is now known as kirrus
TheOpenSourcerergah - screen-x I had about 2 hrs - have been awake feeling bloated and uncomfortable since about 02:30am... :-(08:46
screen-xTheOpenSourcerer: :(08:47
daubersAlso, who released dutchie from the grammar prison?09:07
danfishwotcha all09:08
danfishTheOpenSourcerer: it's a big day tomorrow - you can't afford to have Delhi Belly today!09:09
TheOpenSourcererBetter to get it out of the way today danfish09:09
* TheOpenSourcerer is spinning up 4 new VMs for a customer (unfortunately they use CPanel & CentOS) but the host is Ubuntu :-)09:10
dwatkinsI need to reinsall a server at work with Ubuntu, as I think it09:11
dwatkinswill work much better than Fedora for various things including vmware.09:11
* danfish has caught up with FLOSS Weekly and set up a Big Blue Button VM to mess around with09:13
danfishactually very painless and looks quite useful, though rather flash over dependent09:13
shaunoodd question, but does anyone know if I should be concerned about penecillin alergies if a parent has the same? or does it not work like that09:17
MartijnVdSshauno: Ask a medical expert, like a doctor :)09:22
shaunoheh, yeah, I know.  but I'm at work, and I'm never quite sure where/when to trust the internet09:22
MartijnVdSshauno: that's why you shouldn't ask the internet, but a doctor ;)09:23
shaunoas far as I can tell, most sites I'm seeing are setup to take advertising dollars from hypochondriacs.  I'm more "nosey because I've never done this before"09:23
danfishshauno: no - there is no proven correlation09:23
shaunosweet, cheers09:23
MartijnVdSHowever, being alert for symptoms shouldn't matter :)09:24
danfishMartijnVdS: quite right09:24
JamesTaitHappy Red Nose Day! *8OD09:45
danfishbejesus - we've that to look forwards to 2nite :(09:49
screen-xdanfish: its not compulsasry, /me will be on the M4 for most of it..09:49
TommehTheOpenSourcerer: any v6 support in cPanel yet?09:50
MartijnVdSdanfish: mini Dr Who episode \o/09:53
danfishMartijnVdS: that's more like it :)09:54
* DJones would prefer it if the time comic relief was on was an extended DW episode with a mini comic relief segment in it :)09:56
dauberswoot, new HDD for my laptop \o/09:57
screen-xmorning daubers :)09:57
daubersscreen-x: Quite probably, though my brain still feels like it's night :)09:58
daubersAlso, morning :)09:58
DJonesdaubers: Still doing the Australian support?09:58
daubersDJones: No, end of a very long project. Just finishing getting the system running as the customer wants09:58
DJonesdaubers: Shame, you could have asked for a site visit09:59
daubersDiscovered that my IPC stuff had issues yesterday09:59
daubersDJones: Possibly doing an install in Dubai in a couple of months09:59
daubersWhich will mean a week out that way09:59
daubersKinda half way to Aus :)09:59
DJonesdaubers: Thats true, when I went to oz years ago, there was a stopover in Dubai10:00
andylockranis something broken on the internets?10:26
andylockrandwatkins: more speficially?10:28
bigcalmHi kids :)10:28
bigcalmandylockran: it is morraly broken10:38
MartijnVdSO NOES10:38
shaunojust hows we likes it10:38
dwatkinsandylockran: oh sorry, I'm sure that something is broken (my VPN connection for one thing) ;)10:39
MartijnVdStoo many dirty pictures/minute?10:39
iclebyte_workanyone noticing problems with BT advertising a load of networks?10:45
lubotu3Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/10:51
gilMorning all - is anyone here using natty with the gnome 3 team ppa?10:55
daubersI hate politics!10:57
screen-xanyone know when the census deadline is?10:57
gilscreen-x you can do it online can't you?10:58
screen-xgil: yep10:58
gilI think it's ages from now10:59
screen-xbut if it doesn't have a deadline, it's chances of being filled are low10:59
gilit's got vague legal threats attached to not filling it in, if that helps10:59
screen-xa little, maybe I'll use census day (the 27th) as the deadline11:00
dauberspopey / Daviey / AlanBell Question: PoC or Team Leader. There's a lot of discussion on which throughout the past, which is confused by Davieys first meeting as whichever stating "<Daviey> and my first meeting as Leader / PoC", the wiki stating PoC, and popey was definatley PoC when he was in charge....?11:02
* daubers has just scanned a 3 years of ML posts and the irc logs from 2008/911:02
AlanBellan interesting question, just been talking to czajkowski about that11:03
BigRedSscreen-x: sent by 31st march IIRC11:03
Davieydaubers, Wow, straight in there :)11:03
daubersAlanBell: Yeah, she manages to confuse things :)11:03
AlanBellI didn't realise there was that much of an important distinction11:03
DJonesdaubers: Going back to when Daviey took over from popey, I thought it was described as POC rather than team leader11:03
DavieyThis is true...11:03
screen-xBigRedS: thanks.11:03
daubersDJones: I can't find anything written down that makes the distinction in the UK LoCo stuff11:03
DavieyBack before popey, when it was Nick - it was a Lead.11:03
daubersHence digging through logs and lists11:03
DavieyI don't think popey chose for it to be a PoC.11:04
DJonesdaubers: Have you looked at this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto11:04
daubersDJones: Yes, but I wanted to see if we as a group had made a decision first :)11:04
AlanBellI thought the terminology changed globally at some point, but it was a new name for the same thing11:04
DavieyIn some ways, it's a little dis-empowering - and a worthy question of being answered before the new fool takes over :).11:04
Mezanyone going to http://bringonipv6.com/11:05
DJonesOne of the differences seems to be that teams don't need a "team leader" but they do need a "point of contact"11:06
daubersUrgh... confused now11:07
DavieyMez, Doesn't look that exciting, i'd be surprised if there is much meat there.11:07
gilso can anyone help me locate ligtk3.0-0? I have an upgrade for gucharmap but I can't do it because it needs libgtk3.0-0 which I can't seem to find anywhere :(11:08
popey11:04:15 < Daviey> I don't think popey chose for it to be a PoC.11:08
popeyI didnt11:08
popeythe name was "changed" to PoC by people who held a meeting whilst I was on holiday11:08
MezDaviey: free food though :P11:08
Davieyshortly prior to popey taking over IIRC.11:08
DavieyMez, heh11:08
daubersI suppose the question here should be "Should we have a more formal leadership chain?" rather than the ad hoc people do what they want to do and we have a PoC to talk to the broader worls?11:09
gordgil, what version of ubuntu are you running?11:09
gilgord I am running natty with the gnome3 team ppa11:09
popeyIn Ubuntu projects we call them team leaders11:09
MezDaviey: am tempted to go just to bitch @ AOL people :D11:09
gordgil, then you should have libgtk3.0-011:09
gilgord I know :(11:10
gordgil, update?11:10
ubuntuuk-planet[Iain Cuthbertson] Getting a random wp-block by regex - http://www.myrant.net/2011/03/18/getting-a-random-wp-block-by-regex/11:10
popeyI think PoC is a worthless moniker, a team _needs_ leadership11:10
DavieyI must say, something i found quite quickly is the ability to JFDI is significantly reduced with just a PoC11:10
gilgord the update fails because it can't find libgtk3.0-0 :(11:10
Davieybut as i suspect popey found, when you are in the hot seat  - it's perhaps inappropriate to change that.11:11
gordgil, remove the silly ppa - it may be doing stupid things11:11
popeyit was "voted" by the "team"11:11
popey(in fact it was raised by one person at the meeting with very little discussion)11:11
popeythat person now doesn't actually contribute to Ubuntu at all, and hasnt done for a year or more11:11
daubersRight, so what we need to do is define what a Team Leader should do, if there should be a PoC or some other components to the leadership grouping and then put a proposal _everywhere_ and get a meeting together about it?11:11
popeyback seat drivers ftw11:11
gilgord - I have libgtk-3.0 from ubuntu but the gnome 3 team ppa which is supposed to be the semi-official ubuntu build for gnome 3 doesn't recognise it.... that's the crux of my problem I think :(11:11
gordgil, no such thing as semi official, ppa's can and will screw up your system11:12
AlanBellpersonally in general terms I think *any* role is what you make of it, not what happens to be on the business card11:12
DavieyI'm sorry I wasn't at the meeting last night.  FWIW, i'd fully support a proposal of it being a 'Leader' position.11:12
gilgord but it's the only way I can play with gnome 3 isn't it? :(11:12
DavieyAlanBell, Already have the biz cards? :)11:13
=== Craig_Dem_ is now known as Craig_Dem
daubersAlanBell: Problem is, that when you're elected into a role, people should need to know what they're electing people to do?11:13
gordgil, get a virtual machine, get a gnome 3 live cd, play with it in that?11:13
AlanBellthat is a reasonable point11:13
Davieydaubers, 'election' you say.... not seeing many candidates.11:13
daubersDaviey: Well... yes... but tha may have been predicated by the role being watered down11:14
gilgord that's one solution, but didn't I hear that natty won't really have a proper gnome 3 build anyhow?11:14
AlanBellI don't think a lack of a fierce election battle is neccessarily a problem11:15
Davieydaubers, either way,  I would like to get things moving.11:15
* screen-x proposes daubers stands so that AlanBell can be voted in legitimately11:16
bigcalmHumm, fancy a cream egg now11:16
gordgil, depends what you mean by gnome3. if you mean the applications and libraries and such then we have all that. if you mean shell, then no thats not in natty11:16
gilgord yeah sorry, I meant the shell stuff, not just the underlying libraries11:16
popeyDaviey: you want to get rid of AlanBell already :D11:17
Davieypopey, yeah - his face doesn't fit.11:19
daubersI would actually suggest the additional creation of a Team Lead role, alongside the PoC role11:21
daubersSince the PoC role seems to be more adminy in nature11:21
daubersthe Team Lead should be the person going to conferences and what not and pushing the team to do things, where as the PoC should be a role to ensure that notices and what not get distributed to the group11:22
daubersIt also allows us a catchall should one of them disappear off the face of the earth11:22
Davieydaubers, i'd meh at that TBH.11:24
gorda point of contact should be an email address11:25
daubersDaviey: I dunno... I know some people who make fantastic administrators, but are rubbish leaders, and people who are the opposite. Know very few people in between11:25
daubersor who can do both well11:25
daubersDaviey: the other thing is, some people may want to get involved who would shy away from the limelight, this would give them a chance to do something without that issue :)11:26
daubersReading that meeting through... it's not very clear what was decided11:27
Davieygord, there is already a contact email address...11:27
Davieycontact@ubuntu-uk.org :)11:27
AlanBellso where does that go?11:28
popeywherever you want it to :)11:28
DavieyAlanBell, currently to me, but eager to change it11:28
DavieyBut TBH, i don't think it's exactly used - due to poor doc11:28
AlanBellfeel free to point it at alanbell@ubuntu.com11:29
DavieyI normally get direct contact via my normal address11:29
DavieyAlanBell, on it11:29
AlanBellOK, so I think the title should remain as Point of Contact11:30
brobostigongood morning everyone,11:30
brobostigoncongrats AlanBell :)11:31
AlanBelland that role would include passing on details from the loco council, ordering CDs and additionally providing such leadership as is appropriate in a non-exclusive way11:31
daubersAlanBell: and remain leaderless? (that sounds sracastic, but it's not, it's a question :) )11:31
DavieyAlanBell, ygm11:31
AlanBellso I have, thanks Daviey11:32
daubersAlanBell: In that case, can we document the expected process to get things done? If we are to remain a collective type of leadership, we may end up on the defining quorum thing again11:32
DavieyFWIW, i would prefer a leader position over a PoC... but i won't mention it again.11:33
daubersDaviey: I think I concur, largley because we have no defined membership, so getting backing on decisions is difficult otherwise11:34
AlanBellleader is fine too, I don't mind11:34
screen-x"take me to your PoC" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.11:35
AlanBell"take me to your Lizard" works well11:36
Daviey"take me to my daddy" also works.11:36
daubersThe question is, how does the decision process work in each situation?11:36
* Daviey adds daddy@ubuntu-uk.org -> alanbell11:37
* popey adds mummy@ubuntu-uk.org -> daviey11:37
DavieyOoo misses.11:37
MartijnVdSAre you my mummy?11:41
daubersle sigh11:42
* bigcalm wibbles11:42
screen-xdaubers: appologies for derailing your sensible leadership process discussion :/11:42
* daubers jots down some notes11:44
screen-xand almost lunchtime at that11:45
* mungojerry is mildly cheesed off :(11:47
screen-xsup mungojerry?11:47
bigcalmTTFCIF \o/11:47
mungojerrybuilders are sawing paving stones outside my window for the last 5 days..rather hard to concentrate on anything11:48
mungojerryloud music doesn't even drown it out11:48
bigcalmmungojerry: you need some decent cans11:48
screen-xclosed cans11:48
mungojerryi need a holiday11:48
daubersRight, comments on this please http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/WhatTypeOfLeadership11:48
dauberscomments/additions/edits/so on11:49
screen-xdaubers: Idon't really have a comment, but would vote for combined, maybe a poll of some sort is needed?11:51
daubersscreen-x: We should first decide if we need to do this, then it should go out to be discussed, then polled, then implimented11:52
daubersThis is why I hate politics11:52
daubers(if you miss any of those steps, someone _will_ whinge and call the process into question :( )11:53
mungojerrywasn't there a meeting yesterday?11:53
BigRedS"Requires 2 people when we struggled for more than one nominee this year" is a bit of a weird 'con' without knowing why we struggled to get more than one11:53
BigRedSIf the problem was that nobody wanted the workload, that's a pro for splitting it up, for example11:54
daubersmungojerry: Yup, I was actioned (apparently) to document the election process, but someone asked if we have a Team Leader or a PoC, which is an.... interesting point11:54
brobostigonBigRedS: or simply not having certain capabilites,11:54
daubersso before the process can be defined we really should define the positions11:54
AlanBellthe positions are defined11:54
AlanBellwe just need to decide which position(s) we are going to have11:55
daubersAlanBell: Yes, thats what I meant :)11:55
BigRedSbrobostigon: yeah, or that. But if the problem is apathy, then splitting the position will obviously not help11:56
seekerPopey for president \o/11:56
brobostigonBigRedS: very true, yes.11:56
* seeker goes back to lurking11:57
BigRedSAre there any hoops I should be jumping through to get natty/unity working properly on virtualbox?11:58
BigRedSIt looks like broken gtk currently11:58
AlanBelluse virtualbox 411:58
AlanBellinstall the guest additions11:59
BigRedSAh, I've done the second but not the first11:59
BigRedSthis one's called "Oracle virtualbox"12:05
* directhex officially moos @ everyone12:06
bigcalmThat time of day eh?12:06
* BigRedS has never had an official moo before12:07
bigcalmWhat on earth shall I have for lunch?12:07
daubersWhens the next meeting?12:07
directhexbigcalm, fish!12:07
bigcalmdirecthex: 'n chips?12:07
bigcalmdirecthex: what happened to all of the fish? Somebody ate it12:08
bigcalmDJJ is a acting god!12:08
bigcalmMartijnVdS: processed how?12:09
daubersRight, here is my plan for approval. If I send a mail to the list describing this issue with the etherpad for editing, and propose that it be discussed/finalised at the next meeting (on what we want from that list) and then we can go from there?12:10
MartijnVdSbigcalm: randomly12:10
MartijnVdSbigcalm: you're going to eat puppies?12:11
* bigcalm pushes himself down the stairs12:11
MartijnVdSbigcalm: Chinese or Korean? :)12:11
BigRedSdaubers: sounds good. It strikes me that what's needed most is for someone to just decide how it's going to happen.12:11
BigRedSthat might as well be you :)12:11
bigcalmMartijnVdS: more tender than old dogs12:11
daubersBigRedS: And this is why we need a Leader!12:11
BigRedSdaubers: yep!12:12
daubers(on a side note so no-one gets any ideas, I never intend to stand in a leadership capacity as I'm a rubbish leader)12:12
MartijnVdSdaubers: Rubbish needs leaders too!12:13
seekerdaubers: That never stopped Popey! :P12:14
daubersseeker: ooooh... harsh12:16
seekerpopey knows I'm joking :P12:16
MartijnVdSseeker: I wouldn't be so sure.. :)12:17
seekerWell he hasn't kicked me yet12:18
DJonesseeker: He's become more subtle than  that, he'll just move everybody else into a new channel :)12:20
mungojerryseeker maybe he's sending his mum over irl12:20
AlanBelldaubers: make it so12:34
BigRedSHm. I will never get used to this no-root-password-by-default thing, apparently12:38
mungojerryBigRedS: yeah i change that soon after install12:42
daubersHmmm... issue....12:42
daubersnew HDD is too fat to fit in my laptop12:42
screen-xdaubers: :(12:43
* daubers for sees the purchase of a USB caddy...12:43
daubersAnyone got any recommendations for a USB caddy that will take 2.5" 1TB drive?12:44
MartijnVdSdaubers: sata?12:47
daubersMartijnVdS: Yup12:50
MartijnVdSdaubers: http://www.amazon.co.uk/IOMAX-SATA-Adapter-Power-Drive/dp/B001A5SK56/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300452614&sr=8-1 ?12:50
MartijnVdSor more like http://www.amazon.co.uk/IOMAX-External-Enclosure-Laptop-Powered/dp/B001EEQQ8Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300452614&sr=8-2  ?12:50
daubersMartijnVdS: More like the second but with 1TB support12:53
screen-xdaubers: are there names for the different heights?12:54
daubersscreen-x: Don't think so...12:54
MartijnVdSscreen-x: heights are in millimeters :)12:56
screen-xMartijnVdS: I was curious as I thought that the form factor is well defined12:56
screen-xso to have a disk that doesn't fit is a bit odd.12:56
MartijnVdSonly height isn't well-defined12:57
daubersit's a 12.5mm high drive12:57
shauno12.5 don't fit in mine :/12:57
* screen-x defines NQSFF12:57
MartijnVdSdaubers: http://www.storagedepot.co.uk/Hard-Drive-Cases/sc884/p912.aspx12:58
daubersMartijnVdS: Yeah, probably end up with an Icy Box, quite nice enclosures12:59
mungojerrywell, there's nothing i'd be remotely interesting in buying from amazon's android app store http://www.androidnews.de/amazon-appstore-apps-prices-leak13:17
* brobostigon has found a honeycomb build on xda for g1. amazing.13:18
brobostigoni am feeling adventurous, lets try it.13:19
mungojerrybrobostigon: what do you have on it right now?13:23
brobostigonmungojerry: 2.2.113:23
gordi don't really understand the logic behind amazons app store on android, i mean on ios it would make sense because their app store is more restrictive, but this is just gonna be a carbon copy with price differences that are never gonna matter13:25
mungojerrygord: yep, the only reason would be to make it more accessible to some people who can't use the google store to buy stuff right now13:26
screen-xwill amazon have the same powers of remote removal/installation?13:26
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_
mungojerryor they see a whole lot of devices out there and want slice of pie by undercutting by 20p for a while13:26
mungojerryi buy mp3's from amazon (via banshee :P ) , and they have become my first port of call for music purchases now13:27
mungojerryi've never paid for an app, maybe they hope for convenience, people like me might use their store to buy13:28
screen-xNow that my iphone 3g is no longer receiving updates, its jailbreak time :)13:31
mungojerryscreen-x: why not?13:31
screen-xmungojerry: precisely :)13:31
mungojerryis it possible to get the updates on there somehow?13:32
screen-xI am particularly interested in tethering options13:32
* daubers waits for debian to install on his laptop13:32
mungojerryscreen-x: what tethering does apple allow OOTB?13:32
screen-xmungojerry: usb, but disabled by carrier13:33
* mungojerry is experiencing some RHEL6/SL6 kickstart install issues :(13:33
mungojerryscreen-x: wow, that sucks13:33
brobostigonmungojerry: fail, such a gui doesnt reallywork, on said small screen.13:33
mungojerrybrobostigon: boo13:33
screen-xmungojerry: I think there maybe a BT option as well, can't remember.13:33
* brobostigon tries gingerbread again.13:33
screen-xbrobostigon: you got honeycomb installed and tested in that time?13:34
* mungojerry is waiting for the next release: haribo13:34
brobostigonscreen-x: yes.13:34
screen-xmungojerry: ice cream?13:34
brobostigonscreen-x: i couldnt see a thing, everything was too small.13:34
screen-xbrobostigon: good effort13:34
brobostigonscreen-x: i would have needed a magnifying glass.13:35
mungojerryscreen-x: i'm hoping they will call the next one after that haribo after the world's best sweets13:35
popeymungojerry: its up to the carrier13:35
popeyi have all tethering enabled13:35
popeyusb, bluetooth and wifi13:35
mungojerryi don't use tethering much but it's invaluable on holiday13:36
mungojerry(in the UK)13:36
* screen-x wonders hopes there is a wifi tethering option with jailbreak13:36
* daubers waits for his partitions to resize13:38
* dutchie gets out of bed13:40
mungojerrydaubers: debian testing?13:40
mungojerryfedora 15: Ethernet NICs embedded on the motherboard will be named em[1234] rather than ethX. PCI add-in card NICs will be named pci<slot>p<port>_<vf>.13:43
mungojerryexcept for VMs. ..sounds like going back to the Solaris days.. fe0 , ge0, hme0 ewww13:44
popeyexpect lots of things to break :)13:44
mungojerrypopey: isn't that fedora's slogan?13:44
daubersmungojerry: no, stable :)13:46
daubers(debian version that is)13:46
mungojerrydaubers: gnome 2.32?13:46
daubersmungojerry: No idea, ask me once it's installed :p13:46
mungojerryshould be done by now :P13:47
daubersmungojerry: It's resizing quite an old partition, which takes time13:47
mungojerryi didn't realise what a difference it makes going from a 5400rpm laptop disk to a 7200rpm one13:48
mungojerrymuch more IOPS13:48
screen-xtalking of NIC names, it would be really useful, if ethtool or something like it could make one an interfaces LEDs flash, so you can work out which is which.13:48
screen-xheh ethtool does it already.. should have read the man page.13:50
mungojerryscreen-x: like ethtool -p ?13:51
mungojerryi also find audible ping useful when moving machines while they are switched on13:51
* mungojerry actually has a server room that doesn't have noisy raid alarms constantly beeping13:51
brobostigongingerbread seems to be working,13:52
mungojerryom nom nom13:52
directhexi'm so looking forward to a new phone13:52
popeynew palm pre?13:53
directhexmungojerry, if you want iops, you don't use spinning discs of rust13:53
directhexpopey, that's the current plan13:53
screen-xdirecthex: pre3?13:53
directhexor i could get that 3d android phone, to view my 3d photos on :p13:55
screen-xdirecthex: do you have a 3d monitor/tv?13:56
directhexscreen-x, yes13:56
screen-xwork well with the 3d camera?13:56
directhexno idea, don't have a mini-hdmi cable yet :p13:56
screen-xhow are 3d photos stored?13:57
directhex.mpo files, which are basically .jpg files with two image sections defined. most apps will open them & ignore the second image13:58
directhexe.g. regular command-line exif tools work13:58
brobostigonin gingerbread will i be needing setcpu?13:59
daubers\o/ for experimental installs14:03
daubersI have 1xnatty partition and 1xdebian partition installed on a btrfs FS :)14:04
bigcalmIs there a wordpress function to get a page_name (slug) from a given ID number?14:25
bigcalm(shot in the dark question)14:25
screen-xbigcalm: I'm guessing mysql_query is the wrong answer..14:38
cocoa117my ubuntu 10.10 Gnome keep think pdf,rar,deb files is text/plain type, anyway to solve this?14:39
cocoa117this happened after i installed php5-cli and phoronix-test-suite14:39
bigcalmscreen-x: one would hope so14:39
bigcalmscreen-x: I'll write my own function if need be, just wanted to make sure I'm not reinventing the wheel14:39
screen-xbigcalm: no idea14:40
gordcocoa117, right click -> properties -> open with - select what you want it to open with there14:42
screen-xbigcalm: get_page returns more than you need,but does include title14:43
cocoa117gord, i did, then the Document viewer for PDF file showed "unable to open document, file type text/plain is not supported"14:43
cocoa117gord, it was fine before I installed php5-cli14:44
gordcocoa117, eh then i'm not sure sorry14:44
bigcalmscreen-x: yes, that's the function I'm using now14:47
bigcalm$sectionPage = get_page(83);14:47
bigcalm return $sectionPage->post_name;14:47
screen-xhi kubik3215:01
bigcalmAnd there you go15:02
* daubers orders 1 of http://www.amazon.co.uk/IB-250StU3-B-Aluminium-Case-inch-Interface/dp/B0030CK2YE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300453897&sr=1-1-catcorr15:02
* DJones wonders if "hi" in polish means something other than hello that may have scared kubik32 out of the channel15:06
screen-xDJones: he/she said it first15:06
screen-xI personally think it was the character symetry that scared him.15:07
screen-x /her15:07
mungojerrymost IRC rooms aren't very active..maybe it was the first time he/she had seen a response with 60 minutes that scared them off15:08
* screen-x likes this game15:09
BigRedSHah. I've spent days in a typo of the channel I was aiming at before noticing the traffic was a *tad* lower than usual...15:09
screen-xbigcalm: consider yourself bracketed15:09
shaunoI've done that a few times, but been in the right channel on the wrong network15:09
screen-xtab fail15:09
* bigcalm considers it15:09
shaunoeventually start to babble (it's what I do) and notice I'm opped.  oops.15:10
bigcalmOh for flip :)15:10
ubuntuuk-planet[Phil Bull] User Help hackfest - http://philbull.livejournal.com/58631.html15:10
bigcalmBigRedS: I don't think people in here can cope when we are both active!15:10
screen-xthree characters should uniquely identify any nic15:11
* bigcalm o O ( likes this )15:11
mungojerryscreen-x: +115:12
daubersscreen-x: Nonesense, most of the time they start with eth :)15:13
mungojerrythis room still has around 80% lurkageunless they all get busy at 11pm15:14
shaunothe day-time people are boring :(15:14
screen-xmungojerry: I was here at 2am the other day, at there was quite a lot of overlap with day people.15:14
screen-xit seems sleep is not a universal requirement15:14
shaunoI think it's a requirement, I just find 'daily' to be pushing it a bit too far15:15
mungojerryi remember at uni , we didn't have such things as laptops, or even desktops in those days, so the geeks would just hang out in the lab virtual chatting and MUGing late into the night15:15
mungojerryi don't think any coding or work got done15:16
mungojerrycompsci students are actually quite social amongst their own kind15:16
bigcalmI don't really enjoy talking shop that much in outside of work15:17
mungojerryi would but none of my irl friends are geeky enough15:17
mungojerryespecially the ones who consider themselves geeks15:18
BigRedSI just get into arguments with my geeky friends15:18
BigRedSthey're either flash devs or windows admins :(15:18
mungojerryme too, usually involving apple or freedom :P15:18
BigRedSI tend to berate them for breaking the internet15:18
mungojerrysame as my banter with popey and shauno really :P15:18
BigRedShaha, I did enjoy the macbook comment someone tweeted at fosdem15:19
screen-xmungojerry: I used to annoy people in the CS labs for being too social/nosey I always wanted to know what other people were up to15:19
mungojerryscreen-x: become an admin :P15:19
screen-xmungojerry: tick15:19
screen-xI dont care what my users are up to (within policy..) much less interesting than CS students :(15:20
mungojerryuni doesn't teach you enough about admin rights..i knew how to program etc but only really knew cd/ls/pwd/gcc/mailtool/rlogin/xlock15:20
mungojerrybut got a job as sysadmin..had to learn quickly15:20
screen-xmungojerry: yep, same15:20
mungojerryfortunately my boss taught me well15:21
mungojerryi have repayed the favour by teaching many others15:21
Azelphursigh, lodgers laptop has smitfraud on it15:21
mungojerrydon't keep knowledge to yourself15:21
AzelphurI usually don't do windows support, but baring in mind my parents are so horrible to him lol15:21
mungojerryAzelphur: hmm..source of your bandwidth issues?15:22
Azelphurmungojerry: nope, did per user and everyone was even15:22
mungojerryeven your dad?15:22
Azelphurthere was like 1GB between the highest and lowest user15:23
screen-xAzelphur: sounds like you need a transparent proxy15:23
shaunothat's fairly atypical .. must be a pretty odd house15:23
Azelphurscreen-x: why? :p15:24
screen-xHow do your parents use 20gb/month? iplayer?15:24
Azelphurand hour long youtube lectures15:25
* mungojerry checks his usage15:25
Azelphurand my dad does lots of VNC15:25
mungojerrygeek dad lol15:25
screen-xhow does your router differntiate users?15:25
screen-xstatic IP?15:25
Azelphurscreen-x: mac address15:25
screen-xall routers should do that15:25
Azelphurthey should15:26
screen-xI know you said the other day, but which one is it again?15:26
AzelphurI use a linksys WRT610N with DD-WRT15:26
Azelphurbut DD-WRT isn't exactly great, and getting bandwith monitoring going isn't easy unless you want to pay them bucketloads of money15:26
screen-xpay for dd-wrt?15:27
Azelphuryea they have a pay version with extra features :/15:27
screen-xopencore :(15:27
AzelphurI'm not too sure on how that works baring in mind it's GPL15:27
Azelphurscreen-x: the web panel is encrypted too so you can't add your own pages -.-15:28
Azelphuropenwrt is probably better but it isn't compatible with my router15:28
DavieyBigRedS, Were you at FOSDEM this year?15:29
mungojerryAzelphur: usage for last 3 months for me + wifey: http://i.imgur.com/MNwUb.png15:29
BigRedSDaviey: yeah15:30
mungojerrydo all my ISO downloads and iplayer downloads at work15:30
Azelphuryea, if you had to do that at home your bandwith usage would go way up :)15:30
BigRedSI meant to seek out some of you people, but, er, didn't15:30
Azelphurmungojerry: then we've got weird stuff like the lodger isn't allowed to watch TV (See: my parents arn't nice to him) so he has to use iPlayer or similar to watch anything15:31
DavieyBigRedS, If i knew that, i might have let you buy me a drink.15:31
mungojerrylol is your dad alan sugar?15:31
BigRedSDaviey: Aha! I knew I should have announced more15:31
BigRedSwait... :)15:31
shaunoI think at some point you just gotta admit that most residential connections aren't sized for 4+ over-average users15:32
DavieyBigRedS, Mind you, i'm not sure i could have handled more.15:33
BigRedSDaviey: Ah, so you had the right sort of amount?15:34
shaunothey sell it around email/myface/youtube, where you'd be an anomaly, and 4 anomalies under one roof is heavy15:34
mungojerryabout 10 years ago an work colleague mounted a roof aerial to run a wifi connection between his mums house and his own, to perform offsite backups15:34
DavieyBigRedS, Hmm.. possibly excess...15:34
mungojerryi have a massive microwave/laser aerial about 5 yds from my head on the top floor on the office :S15:34
mungojerrypointing at halls of residence about half a mile away15:35
shaunowe used to have something like that linking 2 college campuses.  it'd go wrong in very bad weather15:35
mungojerryi'd like to know if there are any health risks in working next to it15:35
screen-xmungojerry: that sort of thing is usually pretty directional15:36
mungojerrytbh the asbestos is probably a higher risk15:36
BigRedSWhat's the name for a person being sponsored. It's not 'sponsoree' but might be in some sort of a horrible nightmare15:52
BigRedSI suppose it could be 'the sponsored'...15:52
screen-xothers have suggested sponsee, but I don't like that either15:55
bigcalmAnybody here have a faveorite form plugin for WordPress?15:56
DJonesBigRedS: If the person being sponsored is running a marathon, then I'd call them insane :)15:56
shaunomy dict just goes with sponsored :/15:56
BigRedSDJones: haha, part of the point of sponsorship is that you're doing somethign a bit insane, surely?15:57
mungojerrydoes anyone in here know about combi boilers?15:59
directhexi know they boil things!16:00
DJonesmungojerry: About the bare minimum, turn tap on boiler switches on to heat water, time clock comes on central heating comes on16:00
mungojerrythe water pressure in my boiler has been increasing rather high, although i haven't introduced any new water to the system..rather weird16:00
directhexmungojerry, *increasing*? how random16:00
mungojerryi bled the radiator to let out air and 2 pints of water from the system16:01
mungojerryrather concerning16:01
screen-xmungojerry: retract the control rods a few cm16:01
mungojerryscreen-x: i'm a noob16:01
mungojerrywhat's a control rod16:01
screen-xmungojerry: nuclear fuel16:02
dutchiewell, anti-fuel16:02
screen-xdutchie: ah yes, wrong way round16:02
dutchiescreen-x: the fuel rods are called, imaginatively, "fuel rods" :)16:02
DJonesIsn't the pressure supposed to rise a bit when it heats up because the hot water expands16:03
mungojerryDJones: yes16:04
shaunoaye.  inserting the control rods a bit more (more mediators) should lower pressure.  he got it all about face, but it was funny16:04
mungojerrybut recently (last week or so), it hasn't been resetting to the previous pressure16:04
mungojerryafter cooling16:04
screen-xmungojerry: does the manual give safe ranges?16:04
mungojerrythe central heating system can withstand pressure up to 3 bar16:04
mungojerrymine was around 0.5-1 bar for a long time16:05
mungojerrythen zoomed16:05
mungojerryup to 3 bar16:05
mungojerry(with heating on). so i bled a bit from radiator to release pressure16:05
DJonesmungojerry: http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=935816:06
DJonesDo those symptoms sound similar16:08
mungojerryhmm..probably this is more similar http://boards.fool.co.uk/boiler-pressure-increasing-11233573.aspx?sort=whole16:10
jgjones_I'm just looking forward to summer - central heating goes off completely.16:11
mungojerryi don't actually know what the expansion vessel is16:11
mungojerryi've had my heating on constantly for ages, since we have a little babby16:11
DJonesThat seems to be talking about the same problem (2nd part of the answer anyway) a loss of pressure in the expansion vessel16:11
mungojerryi have a digital pressure reader , so it seems i need to stick it in the expansion vessel valve, wherever that is16:13
* mungojerry hates house things going wrong16:14
jgjones_I liked Outcasts on BBC and am disappointed to hear that apparently it've been cancelled now....does that mean I'm just plain weird for liking Outcasts since it seems that those naff "TV critics" from papers think it's crap?16:14
DJonesjgjones_: I couldn't get interested in Outcast, it looked good from teh adverts but once it started, it didn't hold my attention16:15
CepheusI watched the first episode, it was okay but nothing spectacular16:15
jgjones_It seemed to get a lot better toward the end.16:15
DJonesThis looks interesting if it ever makes it this side of teh Atlantic http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/18/breaking_in_pen_testing_sitcom/16:16
jgjones_Frankly, if they're cancelling it, fine...but they'll better not replace it with yet another bloody "reality" show16:16
DJonesMaybe they're going to do a reality show based in a circus, every week they "stars" have to perform as a different circus act, with the 1/4 final as tightrope artiste, semi final trapeeze artiste and final as a lion tamer :)16:19
jgjones_a better reality show would be to have bankers learning that they're not getting any bonuses and instead it goes on paying off UK debt. Imagine the horrors on their face and them screaming that it's unfair.16:20
mungojerryi must say that possibly the most useful application i use is tomboy..write a note, hit sync and my android app loads it up16:23
screen-xmungojerry: shame you can't edit on phone..16:24
mungojerryscreen-x: yeah16:24
mungojerrybut i generally use touchscreen devices as consumption devices16:24
mungojerrywhich is why the world won't be switching to tablets as their only computing device just yet16:25
mungojerrytablets seem to make regular computing harder16:25
shaunoman computers are stupid sometimes :(16:36
shaunoexpired my password half way thru a shift, then kicked me off the network because it wasn't valid anymore.  so I had to go find a spare ethernet cord to change my password.16:37
shaunoI didn't want to change it 2 hour before I go on holiday, because I'll never remember the new one now.  blah.16:38
screen-xshauno: grr16:38
mungojerryshauno: do what everyone else does and write it on a postit note stuck to your monitor16:38
shaunoI can't :/  that makes me feel like an idiot16:39
mungojerryWrite "WIondows 7 activation key"16:39
shauno(also we have a 'product manager' that likes changing people's passwords, then watching them squirm)16:39
mungojerryset password as eirow-werwe-we3543-s343d-34ded16:39
moreatimungojerry: write it on a post it and take it home.16:40
mungojerryuse the serial number of the telephone on your desk16:40
Cepheusburn it into your retinas with a servo and a 1W laser =p16:40
X3Ncan someone sanity check this.. $cats = 'bob'; if ($cats != 'felix' || $cats != 'fifi') { echo 'bob'; }16:40
X3Nwhy would bob run if $cats = felix;16:41
mungojerrywhich launguage16:42
shauno|| is 'or', right ?16:43
screen-xX3N:  because of or16:43
screen-xthe fist test fails, but the second succeeds16:43
shaunoas bob, you have TRUE or TRUE, whic eval's true16:43
shaunoas felix, you have FALSE or ... yeah what he said.  I'm slow and verbose16:43
CepheusIt will always echo bob because always at least one of those is true16:44
X3Nah yes, thanks16:44
Cepheusreplace || with &&16:44
moreatiwould be clearer as $cats not in ['felix', 'fifi']16:45
moreatiassuming php has a 'not in' operator16:45
dwatkinsI thought || was meant for commands, not within if statements16:45
bigcalmYou could replace it with if (!in_array($cats, array('felix', 'fifi'))) { ...16:45
dwatkinsif ( true | false ) { echo either; }16:46
dwatkinsas oposed to /bin/true || /bin/false16:46
shaunoI don't think php has a straght |16:47
bigcalmNot as an or, no16:47
dwatkinsoh right, thought it was bash16:47
Cepheus| is bitwise or in PHP16:47
CepheusI think16:47
shaunoso it is16:48
X3Nbrain failing to do logic this evening, kind of bad16:49
shaunojust don't do double-negatives.  if they don't make sense in english, they're not going to look any prettier in code :)16:49
bigcalmif (!false) { die(':('); }16:50
dwatkinsthat smells like a nasty forkbomb, bigcalm16:50
screen-xnah, just certain death16:51
bigcalmNot in the slightist16:51
dwatkins| cake16:51
Cepheusdeath is not the end =p16:51
bigcalmwhile (true) { fork; }16:51
dwatkinswhile ( cake | death ) ; do eat ; endwhile16:52
* screen-x gives Cepheus a philosophy point16:52
screen-xdwatkins: ||16:52
screen-xunless you are planning to pipe cake into death16:52
moreatidie(':(') anyone else see a duck blowing a rasberry?16:52
shaunoI did that with a chunk of perl earlier.  looked at it.  and again.  decided I saw 7 smileys, and nothing else. and closed it again.16:53
popeyI am looking forward to drinking beer tomorrow afternoon.17:07
TheOpenSourcererAhh popey17:10
TheOpenSourcererWhat time you planning on getting up there?17:10
moreatiBrianM_: I am the helpbot. What s the nature of your enquiry?17:14
BrianM_how do i list channels17:15
moreatiBrianM_: To list channels type /list for further help type /help list17:17
popeyTheOpenSourcerer: dunno really, you?17:19
TheOpenSourcererprobably mid afternoon I guess (2~3pm)17:20
popeyyeah, same here17:21
popeySam has a party till 1:3017:21
popeyI need to get back and then get to the station17:21
bigcalmMy car is 4 years old and has a service interval of 20,000 miles. Would you still take it in every year for a service or wait for the 20k to pass?17:23
* bigcalm wallops popey17:23
bigcalmI'm wise to your tricks, mr popey17:24
MartijnVdSbigcalm: I'd go every year17:24
MartijnVdSjust to make sure nothing is wrong (yet :)17:24
MartijnVdSand assuming it doesn't cost hundreds of ££17:24
bigcalm6.4K left on the clock until the next service17:24
bigcalmThough I doubt I'll do that in the next 2 weeks17:24
MartijnVdSbigcalm: No business will turn away a customer.. will they? :)17:25
bigcalmMartijnVdS: of course not. But I'm wondering if it's over kill for my wallet or not on a 'new' car17:25
MartijnVdSbigcalm: You could always ask them if they think it's necessary..?17:26
MartijnVdSor learn how to service your car yourself... life skills++17:26
bigcalmMartijnVdS: what place would then say 'na, don't bother'17:26
bigcalmI can service it myself :)17:26
bigcalmDad brought me up well17:26
gordif you install wine, "open with notepad" gets added to your right click menu for text files....17:27
gordhow is that a good idea ever?17:27
bigcalmBut I'm happy to pay somebody else to do it for me and get a stamp in the service history book17:27
MartijnVdSgord: If you want to try out the newest Notepad 0days17:27
MartijnVdS^^ take note :)17:29
=== Hornet- is now known as Hornet
TheOpenSourcererpopey: There is a 14:12 from Woking that gets into Clapham at 14:31 - That's probably the one I'm aiming for.17:44
popeymight be rtough for me to make that17:50
popeywill let you know, and will have location tweets and latitude on17:50
brobostigonhas anyone here tried k9 on gingerbread, it seems to not be able to pickup email push or polling,18:00
brobostigonunless i specificlly open k9, and tell it to update manually.18:01
=== psutton is now known as zleap
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel|away
jgjones_brobostigon, I'm using Cyanogen 7 RC1 - it's based on Gingerbread....would that work for trying out K9 or are you using vanilla Gingerbread?18:39
=== emma is now known as em
brobostigonjgjones_: i am also using a version of cm7, but its not made by cm.18:41
=== MichealH` is now known as MichealH
brobostigonjgjones_: but they should be closeenough to eacother.18:43
Cepheusfroyo is the most popular version of android. and there are more people using 1.6 than gingerbread by almost seven times18:43
brobostigonjgjones_: thank you for your help.18:44
jgjones_brobostigon, will get K9 on phone and try it.18:48
brobostigonjgjones_: thank you, ihave it set to pickup from gmail. and the "checking email" icon always stays in the notification, and doesnt do anything,18:50
=== cbx333 is now known as cbx33
brobostigonjgjones_: and could you check to see if k9 lets android sleep or not.please.18:57
jgjones_brobostigon, for background sync, what do you set it to?19:01
brobostigonjgjones_: the time?19:01
jgjones_brobostigon, in settings, Network > background sync19:01
brobostigonjgjones_: always,19:01
jgjones_notification's working19:03
jgjones_brobostigon,  notification's working19:03
brobostigonjgjones_: ok, that is ok here aswell.19:03
jgjones_I sent an email to myself (google apps email to gmail account) and within seconds of sending, I got a notification.19:03
brobostigonjgjones_: push seems to be woking fine for you then, something is broke here then.19:04
jgjones_brobostigon, I'm doing it again, but this time, my phone screen is off (locked) and sending from laptop19:06
jgjones_So far nothing.19:06
brobostigonjgjones_: that sounds like what is happening here.19:07
jgjones_brobostigon, yup...seems notification works while I'm using phone, but not if it's not in use19:08
brobostigonjgjones_: so it seems, it isnt letting it doanything, while android is asleep.19:09
jgjones_brobostigon, and locking phone excessively cos I just love that "power down" animation :D19:09
brobostigonjgjones_: :)19:09
jgjones_brobostigon, hmm...my phone lit up as I got an text. So I switched it on, and I could see the notification for K9 in the notification bar already there - it might have appeared as soon as my phone lit up for a text but it's not doing it while sleeping19:10
brobostigonjgjones_: thats the impression i got here, aswell.19:21
=== OmNomDePlume is now known as MugabeOtter
MartijnVdS<3 Dr Who mini-special :)19:30
brobostigonyes, :)19:30
shaunowutwut? whar/when?19:40
MartijnVdSshauno: just then, on BBC One (Red nose day)19:41
shaunooh well.  keep yer dr who.  I have baileys.19:46
phonex01guys need help about aircrack19:48
phonex01i put my mon0 device to work on channel 1 and it is turned to channel -1 ?19:48
AlanBell!info aircrack19:49
lubotu3Package aircrack does not exist in maverick19:49
AlanBellnope, not in the repos19:49
DJones!info aircrack-ng19:50
lubotu3aircrack-ng (source: aircrack-ng): wireless WEP/WPA cracking utilities. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.1-1 (maverick), package size 1541 kB, installed size 2776 kB19:50
DJonesNot something I've ever installed though19:51
AlanBellhmm, interesting19:51
AlanBellwe tend not to support cracking stuff, but that is in the repos!19:51
HazRPGAlanBell: its not really intended for cracking, its mainly for sys-admins to secure their networks...19:52
HazRPGbesides, doesn't shock me its in the repo... because backtrack 4 used ubuntu as its base at one point...19:52
dutchieand also it has just come straight from debian19:53
HazRPGplus I had it installed once on my laptop going round securing my friends wifi's with it19:53
HazRPGI used it as proof how properly unsecured wifi was bad19:53
AlanBellyeah, there are other tools in the repos, wireshark and nmap for example which are generally handy things for diagnosing network issues19:53
AlanBellthey don't really call themselves "cracking utilities" though19:54
shaunobacktrack terrifies me19:59
shaunoit seems to have an odd talent for drawing the wrong audience19:59
Azelphurthat's why it's good, it's like facebook19:59
Azelphurit magnets 99.9% of irritating people away from the good stuff20:00
DJonesAlanBell: Its not the package thats a problem, its what the user uses it for, if they use it as a sys admin tool its no problem, if they do something dodgy with it....20:01
AlanBellof course, any tool is just a tool20:01
HazRPGcan brasero write to disc from .cdi images?20:02
DJonesMust admit, I think its description could be better stated20:02
brobostigonwhat is the proper wayto pipe terminal output into a text file?20:04
brobostigonthank you shauno20:05
shaunonot sure if I'm missing a detail there, but >filename isn't a hack, it's how it's meant to go :)20:06
HazRPGbrobostigon: \o :)20:07
HazRPGno one know if .cdi can be burnt to disc?20:07
HazRPGusing brasero20:07
shaunonot entirely sure what a .cdi is; what does 'file filename' say it is?20:08
brobostigonshauno: it worked, :)20:08
DJonesHazRPG: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1288517.html20:08
DJonesMaybe that will help20:08
ali1234!info cdi2iso20:09
lubotu3cdi2iso (source: cdi2iso): DiscJuggler image to ISO image file converter. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 4 kB, installed size 60 kB20:09
shaunothe forum post asks you to grab a package of geocities .. I thought they finally sank that :(20:09
HazRPGDJones, ali1234: Thanks guys :)20:09
HazRPGalso, anyone know why brasero doesn't seem to be able to eject my disc drive?20:10
HazRPGand why the disc doesn't stop spinning when it has burnt something20:10
ali1234maybe it's busily burning a hole right through it20:10
shaunoit's screwed into the case?20:10
HazRPGshauno: erm... should be, why would that matter?20:10
HazRPGits not using metal screws, its using those clip on and twist caps20:11
dutchiedaubers: apostrophes!20:11
HazRPGDJones: I love how you were right on the money with that post being dreamcast based20:12
HazRPGDJones: I just got one of my dreamcast games back from a friend, and he'd managed to scratch it to hell :(20:12
DJonesHazRPG: I had no idea, google search terms "ubuntu .cdi" :)20:13
HazRPGI hate how some people don't know how to look after things :/20:13
daubersdutchie: Not an englishist!!20:13
ali1234i can see the need to differentiate between leader and poc20:13
shaunoHazRPG: the difference between ejecting a disk and ejecting the drive :)20:14
* daubers is starting to feel like the team secretary20:15
ali1234daubers: you're talking a lot about decisions... can you give examples on the kind of decisions the loco has had tomake in the past?20:15
* DJones hands daubers a shorthand pad20:15
HazRPGshauno: ah, my mistake >_< I meant disc20:15
ali1234cos the only ones i'm aware of were "who to elect leader" and "what should we use for the new logo"20:15
HazRPGthink it could be bad drivers that causes it?20:16
HazRPGbecause discs continue to spin20:16
HazRPGregardless of what discs I put in20:16
shaunodrivers barely exist for cdrom.  it's ide, scsi & atapi.  and they're all old enough to be your grandma20:16
HazRPGor whether I'm writing or just reading discs20:16
=== MichealH is now known as Guest29548
HazRPGshauno: hmm,  but surely a disc shouldn't still be spinning when you press eject20:17
shaunoI think that's up to the hardware20:17
HazRPGand it definitely shouldn't stop brasero from being able to eject it using its programming calls20:17
daubersali1234: It's more so that if the LoCo decides to do something and there is a lot of uncertainty, that kinf of paralises things under the current regime20:17
daubersali1234: In that scenario a "leader" as such could make a final decision on what occurs20:18
shaunodrives can block eject, using the lock call20:18
ali1234daubers: examples?20:18
ali1234like i said, i understand the general idea20:18
ali1234how does it apply to this specific group?20:18
HazRPGshauno: oh... hmm, I hate to utter the words - but I never had troubles with earlier ubuntu's nor under any windows install20:19
directhexFrom: noreply@thedrinkshop.com20:19
directhexYour order has been despatched.20:19
HazRPGdirecthex: didn't realise one could order alcohol online :o!20:20
daubersali1234: An example would be if we wanted to make subtle change to how the irc rooms are monitored, that could easily cause a divide in opinion20:20
shaunoI'd assume, the same as any other group; it's a technicality to cover eventualities, but you hope you never need it because we're old enough and ugly enough to do things without clawing each others' eyes out20:20
ali1234ah, good example20:21
daubersIt might also help reduce the level of apathy of in the group having a "leader" to help spur people on20:21
AlanBellali1234: I think it makes little practical difference, however as the topic has been raised this is as good a time as any to clarify it20:22
ali1234well it seems to me the logical thing to do is option 2, but allow people to stand for both roles if they want to :)20:22
shaunoI think the 'day job' should simply be that canonical require a named point of contact20:22
ali1234i mean option 3 :)20:23
AlanBellthe way I see it is that the defined "point of contact" role is the minimal level of leadership required20:23
shaunohaving to make decisions because the rest of us can't reach consensus is the other extreme, and kinda indicates everyone's doing something wrong20:24
shaunoI think that's all I'm getting at.  that may, but shouldn't happen20:24
DJonesI guess a team leader would have the teams authority to make a decision on short notice if something needed to be decided upon before it could be discussed in meeting20:26
daubersI'm happy to go with the group largley. But a small part of me thinks that there should be an administrative role and a lead type role. Hopefully we'll get lots of opinions though and then we can distil it and put it to a vote20:26
ali1234yeah i agree20:26
ali1234i don't see a need to elect the PoC if there is a formally elected leader20:27
ali1234basically, the leader should just choose someone (probably at the same time they announce they will stand for leadership, kind of like president/vice president ticket)20:28
=== Guest29548 is now known as MichealH
daubersor you make the admin role a short fixed term, but that can add some uncertainty20:30
ali1234nah i would not have a fixed term on the admin role either20:30
ali1234if it is really just admin it has no power20:30
daubersMore so that everyone get's a chance to be useful20:30
ali1234i don't think people complaining they don't have enough work to do is a problem you should worry about :)20:31
* suprengr thinks: it's Friday night, peeps should stop being so pedantic & have a drink instead [...& then runs for cover!]20:31
ali1234leadership should be fixed term though20:31
dauberssuprengr: I've already broken out the bottle of whiskey20:31
shaunoway ahead of you :D20:32
suprengrdaubers: good on ya mate - cheers ;)20:32
ali1234but i'm looking at this from a "how do we stop a leader from becoming a dictator" pov rather than assuming that everyone is nice :)20:33
zleaphi all20:33
shaunothat's depend hugely on what an admin role actually is.  otherwise it looks like 2 people, but still has one person calling the shots20:34
shaunohave there actually been any issues so far?20:35
daubersali1234: Yeah, thats why I added that to the bottom of that etherpad20:36
ali1234do we even have more than 1 person who is actually interested in the job?20:37
ali1234cos if we don't it is rather a moot point20:37
shaunoI'm not sure fixed terms are the right way to solve that20:37
* AlanBell gets out the "how to be a dictator book"20:37
HazRPGwow my ratio for ubuntu-10.10-alternate-i386.iso is 162!20:37
shaunoif you say, this post lasts 2 years; you're just going to worry potential candidates that may not be able to commit to a full 2 years20:38
HazRPGcompletely forgot I've been seeding that :P20:38
ali1234AlanBell: psst http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm20:38
AlanBellat risk of sounding like a dictator I am not sure that fixed terms are neccessary when we have the obligation to step down gracefully20:38
ali1234AlanBell: fixed terms but no term limits20:39
ali1234you can just stand again if you want20:39
shaunothat's it.  the solution for dictators is to have a way to get rid of them.  not a way to decide how long you'd like to be dictated over20:40
zleap2 years is a long time to say you can commit for20:40
AlanBellshauno: agreed20:40
AlanBelland we have that20:40
ali1234zleap: it's a maximum not a minimum20:40
AlanBellthe loco council and community council are there to do exactly that20:40
shaunozleap: 2 years was just a number picked out of the ether to form an example20:41
zleapok np20:41
shaunothat is exactly the example I was trying to make, just don't get hung up on the numbers :)20:41
ali1234AlanBell: can't say i have much faith in that system... generally the further you go up the chain, the worse is the corruption, and the less they actually care. at least in my experience20:43
shaunoI'm genuinely curious what problems have been into so far.  even in other groups, or minor grumbles.  fixing boundless hypotheticals is difficult20:43
DJonesI'm tempted to say that the roles should be a combined one given that only AlanBell was willing to stand as POC which has most of a suggestion of being an admin role, if "Team leader" became available and multiple people stood for it, I'd be concerned that they were only standing for the apparant "kudos" that the position could be seen to infer20:44
shaunoali1234: I'd kinda agree with that, but only because I have no idea who they are.  I wouldn't accuse them of anything, but I'd prefer a way the members themselves could say "oi, vote time"20:44
ali1234shauno: yes exactly20:44
ali1234what DJones said too20:45
AlanBellum, well czajkowski is on the Loco Council, popey is on the community council20:45
AlanBellboth of them highly corruptable individuals20:45
shaunosure.  this convo could use more popey really :)  but I'd hazard a guess that the majority would be people we only know by name, if at all20:46
shaunoI tend to think this group is small & sensible enough that we could find a fairly painless process to "ask for a vote"20:47
AlanBellPopey is in fact on both20:48
shaunoso should be corrupted first20:48
shaunopopey and cztab are the only names on loco I recognize; for the other list, maco & Him, but feel too abstracted20:49
shaunonot really trying to argue anything, just stating that I do believe the one way to prevent dictatorships is to give people a way to rid themselves of dictators.  having higher beings we can appeal to is too abstracted from any other system I'm familiar with20:50
AlanBellshauno: I have met most of them at UDS20:51
ali1234is the community council or the loco council elected?20:51
AlanBellyes, sort of20:51
AlanBellexcept for Mark Shuttleworth on the Community Council20:51
ali1234yeah ofc20:52
AzelphurAnyone know if it's possible to have more than one fan get the automatic speed control from the motherboard with only one header?20:52
Azelphurmaybe something that reads the header and replicates it to a few other fans?20:52
AlanBelland there is a shortlisting process which is a bit undemocratic (and unashamedly so)20:52
ali1234Azelphur: just build your own fan speed controller20:52
* Azelphur isn't mcgyver20:52
AlanBelland the eligible voters are Ubuntu Members for the community council and I think Loco Council too20:52
AlanBellIRC council is slightly different20:53
ali1234Azelphur: it's easier than building something that reads from the motherboard speed control20:53
ali1234Azelphur: although software would be more complex20:53
shaunotemp->pwm shouldn't be terribly difficult.  you can find it in $5 bay controllers from china20:54
Azelphuryea, except that I have no electronics experience and don't particularly want to start yet :P20:54
ali1234the only person on either who i have heard of outside this channel is dholbach20:54
Azelphurwas just wondering if anything existed to do it20:54
ali1234all you need is something to generate pwm20:55
shaunohttp://www.dealextreme.com/p/5-25-pc-front-panel-lcd-thermostat-fan-speed-controller-with-overheat-alarm-15666 is an example; £7 shipped20:56
AlanBellDJones: it was announced as both point of contact and team leader and I think most people had considered the terms to be interchangeable http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/03/ubuntu-uk-loco-team-leader-sought/20:56
Azelphurshauno: nice, where does it get the temps from, is there a header on the mobo for it?20:56
ali1234Azelphur: it has a bunch of thermometers20:57
shaunothe little yellow bits on leads appear to be thermometers20:57
popeyevening all20:57
ali1234Azelphur: also looks like it can only control one fan20:57
AzelphurI see20:57
ali1234Azelphur: but thing is, you can build this for pennies with an avr chip20:58
ali1234in fact there are probably several websites with schematics20:58
ali1234you can probably do it even cheaper20:58
ali1234i mean you can probably just amplify the pwm sigal and feed it into all the fans20:58
shaunoit'd be a fantastic place to learn if you have no experience, because the task is so very well defined20:58
Azelphurbaring in mind I have no electronics experience at all to the point that I havn't even replaced a fuse in a plug :P20:59
ali1234an arduino board would be perfect for this if it wasn't a) huge and b) devoid of real usb capability20:59
shaunoI've got some pretty small arduino ;)20:59
ali1234i found another good board: http://leaflabs.com/devices/21:00
ali1234arduino compatible but with real usb on board21:00
ali1234and no silly interface glue21:00
ali1234gonna get a maple mini when it comes out21:01
shaunohttp://shaun.oneil.me.uk/tmp/img_6634.jpg   they're the boards I use21:02
ali1234http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/20100811_004.jpg is what i use21:02
shaunothey're arduino, but without the ftdi, and 3.3v so I can drive them from lipo21:02
HazRPGshauno: woah, you smoke reds!21:03
HazRPGshauno: I had to give those up for gold/light because of the morning after being weezy21:03
shaunoHazRPG: I don't, they came back from amsterdam and I certainly smoke freebies21:03
HazRPGshauno: ah, well then carry on :P21:03
shauno(which is why the label mentions something about toes)21:04
HazRPGshauno: I smoke reds whenever I go to egypt - because they're cheaper than lights (granted both are still much cheaper than here!)21:04
MartijnVdSyou know what's even cheaper? :)21:04
HazRPGshauno: :P What do you normally smoke out of interest21:04
shaunoletting someone else fund the NHS?21:04
MartijnVdSNot smoking ;)21:04
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Someone has to fund the NHS... even if it is just us who's going to be using it more later on down the line xD21:05
shaunoat the time, I figured they made a good scale reference, as the packets are the same size everywhere21:05
HazRPGshauno: makes sense :) - although don't forget super kings :/21:06
shaunothey're forgetable :/21:06
HazRPGI hate people's reasoning for smoking those :/21:06
shauno(and still maintain the scale from that POV)21:06
shaunothis etherpad thing is funky.  I haven't closed it yet, and I'm watching someone else's edits realtime21:07
phonex01guys heelp plz21:07
phonex01im using aircrack21:07
phonex01when i change mon0 channel using " iwconfig channel 9 mon0"21:08
MartijnVdSdon't use crack.. it's bad for you21:08
HazRPGphonex01: as long as its not for illegal purposes... ask away21:08
phonex01mon0 set to channel -1 !21:08
phonex01im using aircrack for the simulation course21:08
phonex01not to hack someone21:08
MartijnVdSMaybe your WiFi driver doesn't support monitor mode21:08
shaunomy biggest 'con' with fixed lengths is simply that it looks like it'd make people feel trapped into a fixed amount of time.  it appears we thin enough for volunteers without adding barriers21:08
MartijnVdSlots of them don't21:08
HazRPGphonex01: yeah, what MartijnVdS said :P21:09
phonex01how can i make sure about that ?21:09
daftykinsaircrack has a way of testing if injection is working21:10
daftykinsamong other things21:10
daftykinsamusingly enough it's all on their wiki21:10
HazRPGphonex01: http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=compatibility_drivers21:10
AlanBellthere is an empty aircrack channel here21:10
AlanBelltopic is Current plan: #aircrack will be forwarded to #aircrack-ng, in the absence of the  original author, and since the original project seems to be dead. Please message lilo if you have any problems or issues with that disposition. Thanks!21:10
shaunois -ng any less empty?21:11
HazRPG#aircrack-ng has 92 people21:11
AlanBelloh it is, loadsa people there21:11
AlanBellbut alis didn't know about it21:11
shaunoI'd have to suggest that'd be the right place to ask then21:11
HazRPGAlanBell: yeah, I did find that odd too21:12
HazRPGphonex01: best /join #aircrack-ng and ask your problems there - they'll be able to help out more21:12
DJonesw 1321:13
phonex01i did21:13
phonex01they are stupid21:13
shauno13?  you know you're an addict when ..21:13
HazRPGphonex01: try looking on that site I linked you21:13
phonex01i did21:14
HazRPGany joy?21:14
phonex01but they patch driver is not exist21:14
phonex01i mean i got HTTP repsonse that the file is not found21:14
phonex01wget http://superb-west.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/ieee80211/ieee80211-1.2.17.tar.gz21:14
phonex01that file is not exist21:14
=== MugabeOtter is now known as OmNomSequitur
HazRPGphonex01: try a different mirror: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ieee80211/21:15
MartijnVdSDo you need that? Aren't those part of the stock kernel by now?21:16
MartijnVdSThe 802.11 stack?21:16
HazRPGusually anything after the /sourceforge/ is the name of the project21:16
HazRPGhowever yeah, you should already have it21:16
HazRPGphonex01: what are you running it on? PC/Laptop?21:17
* MartijnVdS ponders ordering a 3G stick/sim from $work21:17
phonex01my chip is supported21:17
HazRPGphonex01: built-in wifi?21:17
phonex01it is strange21:17
HazRPGwhich model?21:17
phonex01Network controller: Intel Corporation WiFi Link 510021:18
phonex01Intel 4965/5xxxiwlagn21:18
daftykinsyou don't get much luck with Intel ones21:18
phonex01really ?21:19
daftykinsnope, though it depends what you're doing21:19
daftykinsmy 3945abg can support packet injection with the ipwraw driver21:19
daftykinsi use the backtrack 3 LiveCD21:19
phonex01what about 4965  ?21:19
daftykinsjust taking a class on network security and did a simple WEP cracking demo in fact, as old school as it is:D21:19
phonex01ok then tell me what is the problem with 4965 ?21:20
daftykinsphonex01: you've already been linked to a hardware compatibility page, i've said they have a command to test, so pull your finger out and do something about it instead of expecting the answers to be handed to you21:20
phonex01i did21:20
phonex01i tested my device with injection test21:20
phonex01and it is worked21:21
daftykinsso what's the problem...21:21
phonex01ok i set the mon0 which is a virtual wlan deivce on channel 921:21
phonex01but when i make scan it says that mon0 is on channel "-1" !21:21
daftykinswhen you say you're setting a channel, what are you really typing?21:22
phonex01ok i type this21:23
phonex01iwconfig channel 9 mon021:23
HazRPGwhat that might be why21:23
daftykinswhy are you setting a channel anyway? :)21:24
daftykinswhat are you trying to do...21:24
phonex01i have to set the mon0 to have the same Freq as the Freq of AP im trying ti hack21:24
HazRPGit should be iwconfig [interface] [command]21:24
daftykinsthat's not how it works21:24
HazRPGah, see now it all comes out... monitor mode isn't really a channel, what your trying to do is filter out a specific channel21:25
HazRPGyou should know what MAC it is your trying to filter out21:25
HazRPGand do it that why, not by channel21:25
phonex01so ?21:25
daftykinsyou start by running "airodump-ng <interface>" to see what's available21:26
phonex01ok when i try to make ARP injection i have error21:26
phonex01saying that AP working on channel 9 and my card on channel -1 !21:26
daftykinsthen you run this to get it to start capturing packets from a given AP...21:26
daftykinsairodump-ng -c (channel) -w wep --bssid (paste AP's mac here) INTERFACE21:26
phonex01i do that21:26
phonex01i have problem with this21:26
daftykinsthat much is evident21:27
phonex01aireplay-ng -3 -b 74:EA:3A:BB:DA:04 wlan021:27
phonex0123:27:19  mon0 is on channel -1, but the AP uses channel 921:27
daftykinsok well first off -3 is the wrong option for ARP injection :P21:27
phonex01so how can i fix that ?21:27
HazRPGisn't it -1?21:28
HazRPGbeen a really long time since I've done this21:28
daftykins-5 :>21:28
daftykinswell, depends which stage you're at21:28
daftykins-5 is what you pick to capture a packet you then want to fragment21:28
daftykinsready for ARP replay21:28
phonex01you mean change -3 to-5 ?21:28
daftykinsi doubt it's that simple21:29
daftykinsit looks like you're going wrong pretty early21:29
phonex0123:29:10  Waiting for beacon frame (BSSID: 74:EA:3A:BB:DA:04) on channel -121:29
phonex0123:29:10  mon0 is on channel -1, but the AP uses channel 921:29
daftykinswhat interfaces does "ifconfig -a" list?21:29
=== OmNomSequitur is now known as RaycisCharles
phonex01mon0 and mon121:30
phonex01and wlan021:30
* kazade is using IRC through Empathy for the first time21:30
phonex01i can remove mon1 by " airmon-ng stop mon1"21:30
HazRPGright, okay... my advice is save everything you've got ... restart and try again dude21:30
daftykinsphonex01: so what course is this?21:31
HazRPGkazade: its not as good as say pidgin or xchat though - you'll slowly notice that... e.g. /msg doesn't work :/21:31
phonex01in modeling and simultion course we study that21:31
daftykinsmodelling and simulation 0o21:31
kazadeHazRPG: Yeah, I might install Xchat again21:31
daftykinsthe masochist's client21:32
phonex01do you know that aircrack uses simultion model to hack networks ?21:32
kazadeI've just installed ElementaryOS and it's so lightweight it seems a shame to bloat it up with apps ;)21:32
MartijnVdSstrange bot :)21:32
phonex01so guys what is the problem !21:32
phonex01it is really strange21:32
daftykinsphonex01: i don't know it uses such strange words 0o21:32
phonex01me ?21:32
daftykinsphonex01: i don't really think an Ubuntu help channel really has anything to do with "help me crack WEP" really21:32
phonex01i'm not asking that21:33
phonex01and if i want to hack someone i have an embedded system do that21:33
daftykinswell whoop-de-doo21:34
phonex01and if you dont know there is an embedded system build with wifi module and Microchip TCP stack can hack WEP , WPA and WPA-PSK21:34
phonex01and i have it , but i dont want to hack someone21:34
dutchiewhy do you have it then?21:34
daftykinsWPA TKIP maybe :>21:34
phonex01why do i have it ?21:34
phonex01thsi is my work21:34
phonex01im working in Ics and embedded systems21:34
phonex01and anything new in this filed i normally love to have it21:35
MartijnVdSso set up your own network to hack21:35
MartijnVdSyou must have a spare AP lying around'21:35
phonex01i want to use Aircrack because i have a presentation about aircrack21:35
daftykinswhat are you running it from?21:35
phonex01and by the way i have three internet lines21:35
phonex01HSPA+ with 21 Mbps21:35
phonex01so plz dont try to look like " owner man !! " first  im a msulim and i will never hack someone or someone network21:36
phonex01because in m religion this behave is "forbidden "21:37
phonex01got that ?21:37
phonex01so if you can help me about aircrack then say what you have or keep silent21:37
daftykinswell with that attitude you can get stuffed21:37
DJones!attitude | phonex0121:37
lubotu3phonex01: The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines21:37
MartijnVdSphonex01: (keep in mind: Speeding is forbidden, it still happens ;))21:37
daftykinsi for one cannot be bothered with you21:38
lubotu3The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.21:38
MartijnVdSI think it's a case of that21:38
DJonesFolks may want to step away from the keyboard for 10 minutes or so & let feelings settle down21:39
ali1234you lost me at "XY"21:39
phonex01ok im sorry anyway21:39
MartijnVdSali1234: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem21:39
* MartijnVdS gets another beer :)21:39
shaunoDJones: did that a long time ago :)21:39
dutchieooh, beer21:39
dutchiethat sounds like a good idea21:40
daftykinsfolks should suggest to folks less21:40
phonex01ok i think i have to leave to help protesters or maybe wait for a while ....21:40
phonex01anyway it is cold !21:40
shaunotonight, my poison is baileys, watered down with various leftover christmas pressents21:40
shaunoit's my revenge for working 36 hours over paddys :)21:41
gr33npeaceshauno: like socks?21:41
shaunogr33npeace: various whiskeys that I couldn't bring myself to drink straight21:42
gr33npeaceshauno: baileys and whiskey?21:42
Cepheusali1234: If you mention a problem, but only ask about a solution to your problem, it stops others from suggesting other solutions which might be better.21:42
shaunogr33npeace: it's the only way to drink it21:42
gr33npeaceshauno: what's wrong with a dash of water,or a single icecube?21:42
shaunogr33npeace: baileys is essentially cream & irish whiskey.  all I do is alter the ratio until it's a little less sweet, but enough to cover up the trash my neighbours gave me21:43
gr33npeaceshauno: hahaha, ok man... you're ok... I am jealous.21:43
gr33npeaceI saw there are some empathy users here, I was looking for a theme that's simple, but always posts the time next to the messages.... can anyone suggest one that fits the bill?21:44
HazRPGphonex01: ooo I'm a muslim too :)21:44
phonex01really ?21:44
phonex01where are you from ?21:44
gr33npeaceyou see, i work with some right lazy sods, and I want to start keeping them to their promises...  :D21:45
phonex01HazRPG where are you from ?21:45
HazRPGphonex01: UK21:46
phonex01ok im from jordan21:46
HazRPGphonex01: mum's egyptian, and my dad is a revert21:46
phonex01nice to meet you21:46
phonex01talk to me on private ?21:46
HazRPGnice to meet you too21:46
shaunophonex01: I'm curious, and I hope this doesn't sound rude, but could I ask why you chose the -uk channel for this?21:47
zleapenglish speaking perhaps,21:47
shaunoI noticed we had a visitor for lagos the other night, and I'm genuinely curious as to what brings them21:47
MartijnVdSour hospitality :)21:48
gr33npeacesurely the welcoming and helpful british attitude?21:48
phonex01why ?21:48
zleapthat too21:48
shaunophonex01: as a brit, I'm genuinely curious what it is that draws people21:48
shaunonot trying to be negative at all; just nosey21:48
DJonesshauno: We get quite a few ukrainian thinking that -uk is ukraine21:49
shaunoDJones: see, that one makes sense to me21:49
shaunobut for instance, the person asking for help downloading backtrack a night or two ago, was lagos21:50
phonex01shauni im not a TERRORIST !21:50
shaunoI'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just curious why the first person I've ever seen online from there, chose a -uk room21:50
daftykinsthose poor people21:51
shaunophonex01: nothing to do with that at all21:51
daftykinseven worse if they appear outside of UK hours21:51
phonex01what do you mean ?21:51
HazRPGsee I at first thought -uk was ukrain at first when I was looking for a more localised LoCo about 3 years ago... but since I couldn't find a GB or GB-UK I assumed it was this one21:51
shaunoI mean it's nothing to do with terrorism :)  I'm not that kinda person   lol21:51
phonex01i hope so21:52
ali1234shauno: xchat autojoins this channel by default under certain conditions21:52
phonex01becuase it is common idea about MUSLIMS21:52
HazRPGphonex01: don't worry shauno's a nice guy, he's just curious :)21:52
ali1234i'm not sure what those conditions are but there's got to be a chance of it getting it wrong...21:52
phonex01ok no problem21:52
MartijnVdSphonex01: It means that if you ask a question here at a time that's night in the UK, you might not get an answer, because everyone'll be asleep21:52
ali1234everyone except me21:52
phonex01ok then they have to wake up21:52
MartijnVdSor HazRPG21:52
shaunojordan's not so bad, because their timezone is close to ours.  when we're asleep, he'll be too21:52
shaunolagos .. I'm not even sure where that is21:52
DJonesMartijnVdS: Except HazRPG Who'll still be awake :)21:52
MartijnVdSshauno: Sure, but wait for the Aussies :)21:53
shaunoMartijnVdS: they're not banned?21:53
shaunoor are we on speaking terms since the ashes :)21:53
HazRPGyeah, I'm usually awake at silly hours21:53
phonex01it is 23:5321:53
MartijnVdSshauno: that would explain their absence21:53
MartijnVdSshauno: Kiwis as well21:53
shaunoseriously not trying to offend anyone.  just trying to understand the choice21:53
shaunoeg, I wouldn't go to ubuntu-fr looking for help21:54
MartijnVdSshauno: issyl0 would :)21:54
MartijnVdSshauno: It seems like a sane choice if you know (a bit of) the language21:54
shaunobut so does #ubuntu proper21:54
gr33npeaceshauno: sometimes I log into the Brasilian channel, as I am trying to learn Brasilian Portuguese...21:54
shaunowell, it doesn't it's full of crazies.  but it makes sense on paper ..21:54
MartijnVdSIt's why I'm here.. I speak English, I don't like #ubuntu (too crowded), or #ubuntu-nl (too stupid)21:54
MartijnVdSSo I came here :)21:54
Synth_samhi all21:55
daftykinsyou can get newbie overload in #ubuntu21:55
MartijnVdSshauno: Speaking of French -- http://3voor12.vpro.nl/speler/luisterpaal/4454001821:55
MartijnVdSshauno: French summer pop :)21:55
shaunofair enough, just thought I'd ask21:55
gr33npeacedaftykins: agree... it can scroll way too fast for me21:55
MartijnVdSgr33npeace: Especially on release day :)21:55
phonex01shauno do you like muslims ? or you hate them ?21:55
gr33npeaceMartijnVdS: oh god yes!  hahaha21:56
shaunophonex01: that'd be a difficult discussion21:56
phonex01why ?21:56
HazRPGshauno: yeah I joined here since I wanted english-speaking people, I originally joined #ubuntu but the intelligence level of some of the questions was a bit... erm... "I'm sorry are you from the past!?" worthy21:56
phonex01more details ...21:56
gr33npeacephonex01: quite a general question there... do you like people or hate them!?  :)21:56
MartijnVdSphonex01: To most people, it doesn't really matter what you believe in for them to help you, or to be friendly/friends with them21:56
shaunophonex01: I'm not a huge fan of islam.  but much in the same way, I'm not a huge fan of christianity or judaism either21:57
MartijnVdSAt least, that's my opinion :)21:57
DJonesphonex01: Thats not really an appropriate question to ask somebody21:57
MartijnVdSMyrtti: Randomness to you too!21:57
CepheusI don't have opinions on people because of their beliefs, just their actions.21:57
phonex01yes it is do you know why ?21:57
daftykinsoh dear, someone wants to setup SSH to a box they're already remote from21:57
MartijnVdSMyrtti: actually, that's a good greeting :)21:58
shaunophonex01: I guess the main point is that I wouldn't think any less of someone for being a muslim.  or a christian, or jewish.  but the religions themselves  (any of them) .. they're just not my cup of tea21:58
Myrttimmmm tea21:58
daftykinsreligions seem to make you have to... do stuff :)21:58
gr33npeacelove tea.21:58
phonex01because since 1890 UK deal with Middle east as _____21:58
Cepheusshauno: agree...  I am a man of science.21:58
daftykinsor not do stuff!21:59
phonex01i dont ant to say that bad word21:59
gr33npeacephonex01: do remember that foreign policy is one thing, "normal" people are another21:59
daftykinsunfortunately you go home tonight with our blankety blank chequebook and pen21:59
shaunophonex01: safe to say, I have not been involved with UK foreign policy at any time since 1890 :)21:59
MartijnVdSshauno: you didn't vote?!22:00
shaunoMartijnVdS: actually, no22:00
MartijnVdSshauno: then the current libdem/etc. issues are your fault! :P22:00
Cepheuspoliticians are elected by the general populace but rarely speak the minds of the general populace =p22:00
MartijnVdS*ahem* ##politics22:00
shaunoI didn't register to vote before I left the UK, which has rendered me inelligible for overseas voting22:00
gr33npeaceMartijnVdS: they're my fault too...22:00
* dutchie waves his hand in the "not involved in UK foreign policy since 1890" camp22:00
shauno^5 dutchie22:00
ali1234as if anyone here has any control over foreign policy22:01
dutchiethough i can't be blamed for being born 2 months later than what would have allowed me to vote in the last election22:01
phonex01"normal" people are another !!!!22:01
gr33npeacephonex01: yeah i know... no one in IRC is normal...22:01
daftykinsali1234: Guernsey law could well rest in my hands!22:01
shaunothat's it.  we're people.  if you're people, welcome.  if you're a politician, there's better channels / prisons for you.22:01
phonex01if so why they did not stoped there gov when they get in iraq in 2003 and destory it ?22:01
ali1234daftykins: you could invade sealand perhaps?22:02
daftykinsthat was last friday22:02
daftykinsit didn't end well22:02
Myrttisoapbox is at hyde park22:02
dutchiedaftykins: did someone stub their toe?22:02
daftykinsdutchie: worse, there was... an incident22:02
daftykinssome bacteria were harmed22:02
AlanBellshauno: there is an #ubuntu-gb channel, it diverts to here22:03
AlanBellin fact that is what xchat autojoins22:03
shaunoAlanBell: I'm not sure -gb would be any more obvious to either of the examples I can think of22:05
daftykinstwo letter country codes can be quite cryptic22:06
daftykinsi should start up #ubuntu-gg22:06
daftykinsbut there'd only be me in it22:06
shaunobut as I've been at pains to point out, it's a genuine curiosity, not a criticism of any kind22:06
HazRPGphonex01: in all honesty, most people here don't really care for race/religion - as people are polite and friendly all are welcome here :)22:07
phonex01ok we will not tallk about policy22:07
phonex01or religion22:07
phonex01now i think i have to go22:07
phonex01protesters calling me !!!!!!!!22:07
gr33npeacephonex01: good luck, stay safe!22:08
phonex01hahahah i have a gun22:08
phonex01it is not that big22:08
phonex01M16 hahahah22:08
shaunoI'll echo "stay safe" then.  you could have someone's eye out with that22:08
gr33npeaceor worse!22:08
phonex01oh no man22:09
gr33npeaceyou could definitely get a bruise22:09
DJonesphonex01: Thats enough, time to end that conversation22:09
phonex01it is a tradtion here22:09
phonex01oh DJones ?22:09
Myrttimoving on22:09
phonex01you speak like our police ?22:09
MartijnVdS[ Meanwhile ]22:09
gr33npeaceanyway, I did come here to ask some advice from the masses22:09
gr33npeaceI saw there are some empathy users here, I was looking for a theme that's simple, but always posts the time next to the messages.... can anyone suggest one that fits the bill?22:10
MartijnVdSgr33npeace: the default "time once in a while" theme isn't enough?22:10
ali1234gr33npeace: if you find one please let me know22:10
* MartijnVdS doesn't know any other themes than default22:10
gr33npeaceMartijnVdS: oh!  I hadn't seen that!22:10
ali1234gr33npeace: i've been looking for such for years, i even went and bugged the developers about it22:10
shaunoI think the time is driven by the engine, not the theme22:10
ali1234yet still the only adium themes that work are the "hello kitty" ones22:11
gr33npeaceok, I will continue my search!22:11
ali1234nope, you can do it in the theme22:11
ali1234i even tried to make a theme22:11
ali1234and uncovered a few bugs22:11
ali1234still didn't actually manage to make empathy look decent though22:11
gr33npeacegotta dash... Portuguese lesson!  cheers all and good night22:11
shaunoI may have to take up that challenge sometime.  I'm kinda used to adium22:12
shauno(and realise that empathy's implementation is half-baked)22:12
ali1234what you can't do with adium themes is auto colour nicks22:12
MartijnVdSgr33npeace: good luck!22:12
ali1234at least not time i checked22:12
ali1234also there's something weird with the way paragraphs are formatted that makes everything run together into a huge wall of text22:13
shaunoadium itself is pretty horrid for irc.  it fares best at IM22:13
ali1234couldn't seem to figure that one out either22:13
ali1234i don't see why thetre is a different between irc and im22:13
shaunothere's more than 2 of us in here22:13
shaunoso me & them is a colour issue which doesn't ordinarily exist22:14
ali1234how does the special case of 2 people affect anything?22:14
shaunothere's stuff I sent vs stuff I received.  nick colouring is ancillary22:14
ali1234the problem is that empathy devs see multiperson chat as a special case instead of seeing 2 people as a special case22:14
BigRedSwith IM you're normally pretty sure that whatever you didn't say was said by the single person you're talkin to22:14
ali1234if you look at it this way it's not even that special22:14
shaunoBigRedS: bingo22:15
ali1234anyway, the total failure of empathy and irc and the lack of a decent theme is the reason i don't use it22:15
shaunoadium is very much like gaim.  an IM client that does multiuser chat poorly22:15
BigRedSI've never really been grasped by a want to treat the two the same, either. I have an IM client and an IRC client and I've never suspected that either should do the job of the other. But I don't really know why22:15
ali1234gaim doesn't exist?22:15
ali1234you mean pidgin?22:15
BigRedSit's now pidgin...22:16
BigRedSbut it's still Gaim in my head22:16
ali1234pidgin is what i use all day every day22:16
shaunoI frankly don't care what it's called.  you know exactly what I'm talking about22:16
ali1234it works far better than empathy22:16
BigRedSI use empathy 'cause it does XMPP priority22:16
Synth_samali1234: the IRC in pidgin is terrible22:16
BigRedSbut then I get annoyed 'cause it doesn't do auto-idle22:16
ali1234Synth_sam: maybe but it is still better than in empathy22:16
Synth_samI'm using irssi for IRC22:16
shaunoI haven't used linux on the desktop since 2006.  last I used it, it was called gaim.22:16
ali1234point is, pidgin is the best client that supports both irc and xmpp22:17
HazRPGhmmm, I'd just like to point out Jordanians are actually nice people22:17
CepheusI use weechat!22:17
Synth_samI have to use MSN, so pidgin is far superior to empathy22:17
HazRPGits the Saudi's you've gotta worry about22:17
shaunoI have used empathy in a VM, but disliked it because it was difficult to close without it /part'ing channels I was in, which doesn't bode well with my setup22:17
CepheusI use empathy for most IM networks, emesene for WLM, and weechat via screen/ssh for irc22:18
MartijnVdSHazRPG: People are pretty nice people. It's the not-nice people you need to worry about ;)22:18
HazRPGMartijnVdS: agreed22:18
shaunoCepheus: I use adium for IM networks, for which empathy seems a close equivalent.  and then irssi-proxy & whatever client is native at hand for irc22:19
daftykinsooooh i hate my joooob :/22:19
daftykinseven though it's temporary22:19
daftykinsteaching is hell22:19
CepheusMartijnVdS: +1 for race-free people assessment22:19
shaunoI like teaching.  I dislike customers :((22:19
Synth_samdaftykins: what are you teaching?22:19
MartijnVdSHazRPG: There's a Dutch book about this "Het zijn net mensen" ("They're just people") -- http://www.bol.com/nl/p/nederlandse-boeken/het-zijn-net-mensen/1001004002412120/index.html22:19
HazRPGali1234: didn't realise you used Pidgin - I had you down more as a irrsi guy22:19
MartijnVdSHazRPG: google translate should help :)22:20
daftykinsSynth_sam: IT at A level, but not actual A-level, just at the same 'level' :D22:20
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Don't worry, I've seen my share of different kinds of people - so I do know :)22:20
MartijnVdSHazRPG: good :)22:20
ali1234HazRPG: i don't use crippled software just to seem more leet :)22:20
MartijnVdSHazRPG: this is the translation btw: http://www.stanley-livingstone.nl/luyendijk-people-like-us-b-3446.html22:21
shaunoMartijnVdS: I'm curious; does that mean belgians are people too?  ;)22:21
ali1234got over that when i quit using gentoo22:21
Synth_samdaftykins: ahh, I stopped studying IT "officially" at AS-level (years ago) it was dull22:21
MartijnVdSshauno: Only if they bake good fries :)22:21
daftykinsSynth_sam: i'll bet. this is a BTEC national diploma course22:21
shaunoMartijnVdS: I converted a yank to fries & mayo.  that was a good day.22:21
MartijnVdSHazRPG: http://www.amazon.com/dp/159376256922:22
MartijnVdSshauno: haha, mayo++22:22
shaunoI use irssi 24/7, but rarely actually use it.  screen+irssi is my fallback, and the irssi-proxy module lets me throw whatever client I find best into the mix22:22
HazRPGmayo++ indeed!22:23
Cepheusi just like the old school feelin' =p22:23
shaunoso I can drop in on my shell, my desktop, my phone, without being a spammy mess of joins/parts/altnicks22:23
ali1234never felt the need to irc while and out and about22:24
ali1234i just read the scrollback when i get home22:24
shaunoquite often I'll be mid-conversation when it's time to leave for work22:25
shaunoI'll knock my phone on so I get beeped if anyone follows up22:25
ali1234"sorry i have to go to work now ttyl"22:25
daftykinsmmm i run irssi (this one) from a VM on a file server22:26
shaunoI rarely (but have) talk all the way to work.  I just get a notification that way22:26
* MartijnVdS runs this on a vps22:26
shaunothis is on a vps, but via a local client atm22:26
shaunothat's why I love irssi-proxy.  I can be via  gui client one minute, via ssh the next; without spamming people22:27
ali1234if people didn't want to know when people enter and leave the channel they would turn off those notifications...22:31
daftykinsit's better netiquette not to spam channels with clones22:33
ali1234that is a little bit annoying22:34
ali1234$nick-laptop is okay22:34
ali1234$nick-mbp is not :)22:34
shaunowell, for instance22:36
shaunoI know people that show up as foo, foo|work, and foo|mobile22:36
shaunoI consider that bad form, and work my setup around it22:36
ali1234i just ghost myself22:37
shaunothey'll say, I forgot to close irc before I went to work22:37
shaunoI just join in the same irc.  with multiple clients at work if it fits the situation22:37
shaunoer, at once22:37
shauno(I never claimed to be sober)22:37
ali1234AlanBell: "59 seconds = unacceptably stale news"22:38
shaunoI think the big part is, I'm not always a gobshite.  sometimes I'll peek in, and then leave again.  this way, I do so without a trace :)22:38
ali1234i hope you were being ironic22:38
shaunoI knew one guy that'd show up as dave|mobile and then rant about how he had connectivity on the train.  again.  the same train he took home from work 5 days a week.22:39
shaunoI simply don't want to be that guy22:40
shaunoand irssi-proxy is so easy22:40
shauno(and lets me define ports per the list work passes ;)22:41
shaunothe one thing their nannywall does right, is give us a list of ports/services which are acceptable22:42
shaunosad thing is, I used to have a free pass on it.  someone else took it up when we got aquired, and I found it easier to route around than to go play in the red tape22:43
daftykinstake it you're not in the IT department then?22:43
shaunoI'm on the dc team for our site.  the actual 'IT department' are in bangalore22:44
daftykins"hallo sah"22:45
shaunoI will admit, they're not idiots22:45
shaunothey just don't seem to understand the different roles we have in place22:45
shaunoeg, I have access that's completely without my job description, because I train other people on those units22:46
shaunothat just doesn't seem to make sense to them at all22:47
daftykinssounds like a bureaucratic workplace22:48
shaunoto the extent that I'm glad we outsource security locally, else I simply wouldn't have physical access22:48
shaunothere's 140-150 thousand employees globally.  bureaucratic barely scratches it22:48
shaunohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Electric   appears to be missing atleast 2, possibly 3 acquisitions22:51
shaunothe job itself is boring, but I get to train network integration for UPSes 39k to 499k, which is actually fun22:54
shauno(we don't train 500k+, just stick a developer on a plain.  that's also entertaining, but in the wrong way)22:55
shaunoer, plane22:55
Pendulumshauno: are developers on a plane like snakes on a plane?22:55
shaunopossibly worse22:56
* Pendulum once ended up in a tabletop game that somehow involved snakes on a plain. 22:56
PendulumIt was really the worst joke ever22:56
shaunoplatform development are strange creatures22:56
* AlanBell contemplates snakes on an n-manifold#22:57
shaunowe had one walk off a site in $easterneuropeancountry because he was sick of being robbed22:57
AlanBellif we consider the snakes to be one dimensional22:57
AlanBellgood job I don't make films isn't it22:58
shaunothey're simply not afraid of people in suits.  it's inspiring and terrifying at the same time22:58
daftykinsI ain't trainin' no ****ing developers on no ****ing plane!22:58
shauno"dude, we got a call you didn't show up this morning.  where are you?"  "denmark."  "but we set you to ....."22:59
shaunobut yeah.  it makes getting anyone to agree to anything a complain pain in the rear23:01
shaunoI had to fight to get access to me.com so I didn't have to stuff my shifts into my phone one by one.  then it disappeared again23:01
daftykinscould be worse23:03
daftykinsyour IT department where you work could ignore you until you stop trying to get stuff fixed :D23:03
shaunooh it could.  my job's so easy I don't get yelled at for napping23:03
shaunoI just miss the old nannyfilter :)23:03
shaunothe old one had a lil box where I could type my key in and make it go away.  the new one just goes blah blah blah23:04
daftykinswhat product is it?23:05
shaunoI have no idea23:06
shaunoit doesn't give much away23:06
shaunoto the extent that when it first appeared, I was a little freaked out because I was seeing facebook 'like me' iframes that bore nothing but the corp logo23:06
ali1234why is peter crouch on horizon?23:10
AlanBelldoes this work for people: http://blip.tv/file/490401523:10
ali1234not if it is supposed to be more than 3 seconds long23:11
ali1234the one you posted before way ok though23:12
BigRedSi just got 3 seconds out of the twitter one..23:12
ali1234wait its the same one23:12
ali1234how odd23:12
BigRedSs/3/only 3/23:12
AlanBellblip seems to have now broken it23:13
ali1234use youtube23:13
ali1234it actually works23:13
popeyits fine, their conversion to flv probably failed, it usually does23:15
ali1234ah yeah that's probably why it worked for me before23:15
ali1234if it hadn't finished converting23:15
brobostigongood night everyone, sleep well.23:25
daftykinsnn brobostigon o/23:26
brobostigongood night daftykins23:27
dutchieAlanBell: i saw a very interesting talk about mathematical flags, which included sticking 1-d vector spaces into n-d vector spaces23:37
dutchiehttp://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/~grabowsk/talks/invariants11.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassmannian23:38
dutchieif you understand that, you are doing better than me23:38
popeydutchie: see what you mean about the moon23:39
dutchieyeah, it is very very bright23:39
popeyis it full tomorrow?23:40
popeythat'll make for a nice evening journey home23:40
popey(after beer and rugby)23:40
dutchienot sure23:42
dutchiei would check my brit astro handbook, but i can't remember whether i got a 2011 one before my membership expired23:42
gordbrightest full moon in years tomorrow yep23:44

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