[00:00] last time I tried it, it had none of that power-management nonsense either. got a month out of it before I needed to break into my ipod to replace the battery [00:00] cool [00:00] wow, that puts new meaning to stuff I've been reading recently [00:00] what have you been reading? [00:00] hardware hacks [00:00] ah [00:00] yeah power management is always the last thing to get implemented and it really hurts things like mobile distros [00:00] lp claims this rhythmbox thing was fixed in 10.04 [00:00] for example meego-n900 [00:01] shauno, oh? [00:01] no power management = can't use it as a phone [00:01] bug 164265 looks like the one? [00:01] Launchpad bug 164265 in Rhythmbox "Transferring AAC files to iPod is broken" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164265 [00:01] not a mobile phone anyway [00:01] power management should be the first thing they get working in mobile devices, not the last [00:01] aye, that's why I'm sticking with maemo on my n900 till meego has matured [00:02] because a mobile device with a flat battery has zero features. [00:02] shauno: i agree, and i told the meego-n900 people same on several occasions :) [00:02] but seems like the people who can actually fix it (nokia) are more interested in making the n900 a development platform than an actual usable device [00:03] well [00:03] nokia have jumped into bed with MS [00:03] they still have a lot of resources in meego [00:03] ali1234, you gotta emulate to accumulate [00:03] or something [00:03] unsurprising considering that Stephen Elop is an ex-MS guy with a ton of shares in, you guessed it,MS [00:03] wut? [00:03] slackthumbz: he also sold macromedia to adobe :) [00:04] nokia making a mobile app platform [00:04] copying the trends [00:04] ali1234: can't say I like the guy, he seems to be a complete idiot [00:04] n/m, i was rambling just then [00:04] freelore: ah yeah, that's not what i mean [00:04] nokia's so hung up on this ecosystem thing they seem to think completely passed them by, but in the process has kinda forgot to ship any compelling products. and they wonder where they're going wrong [00:04] freelore: what i mean is they see it as a device for developers only, ie always tethered to a development box and power supply, so PM is not important [00:05] that's the impression i get anyway [00:05] that's just going to teach third-party devs to be as bad as they are, if everyone's working to the assumption power's never an issue [00:06] shauno: nothing new there :( [00:06] What - AGAIN? [00:06] they will do that anyway [00:06] I've seen inside my phone. it's 3/4 battery. power is the only issue. [00:06] So a battery life of 1-2 days like with the N900? [00:06] alexcockell: no [00:07] alexcockell: a battery life of 1-2 hours and the CPU running at max all the time [00:07] What use is that? [00:07] you might get 1 - 2 days if you hardly use it [00:07] I *USE* my N900.. [00:07] same [00:07] no, because even if you don't use it, it will currently run the CPU at maximum power, and not power off any devices [00:08] i'm sure it will get fixed eventually [00:08] well, 1 - 2 days on maemo. I've not tried meego yet. [00:08] but it should have been fixed first not last [00:08] * alexcockell facepalm [00:08] if meego had the same PM as maemo it would be fine [00:08] but currently it has none at all [00:08] (on n900) [00:08] Umm - why on earth did they blow so much time changing all the substrate like power mgt etc? [00:08] and package mgt? [00:09] alexcockell: because they wanted to just switch to using moblin and moblin used rpm [00:09] meego is pretty much moblin renamed [00:09] ali1234: weren't you suggesting I got a N900? ;/ [00:09] sure [00:09] just don't use meego [00:09] even though it is shit? [00:09] maemo is OK [00:09] poor [00:09] anyone got an opinion on the sansa clip+? [00:10] ;/ [00:10] and the n900 is an awesome phone [00:10] maemo isn't perfect but it mostly works and some parts of it are awesome true [00:10] meego is still nowhere near ready on the n900 though [00:10] remains to be seen what the nokia mystery device will be like [00:10] physical keyboard + xterm on a phone is incredibly handy for me [00:10] haven't nokia jumped into bed with ms + wp7? [00:10] yes [00:11] ali1234: whatever it is it'll run WP& [00:11] wp7* [00:11] but they still are commited to releasing 1 meego device [00:11] I don't need a phone to be a phone, but N900 costs a lot [00:11] :/ [00:11] and therefore will be a total waste of hardware [00:11] of course that could change... nobody really believes anything nokia says anymore [00:11] also they have not even confirmed the 1 meego device will be a phone [00:12] could be a tablet, could be a netbook, could be a digital TV receiver... could be some crazy device nobody even thought of [00:12] i think they have lost the plot [00:12] they have to offer some higher end devices with other OS, purely to attract developers of apps for their low end phones? [00:12] shauno: bit late... but its like saying "the playstation has no games!" [00:12] My N900 is on a Carphone Warehouse O2 contract - before O2 reduced the 3G data limits [00:12] alexcockell: mine too [00:13] what are they going to do with Qt now they are all but ms's hardware division? [00:13] HazRPG: I don't follow [00:14] freelore: ironically, they are going to port it to android :) [00:14] won't they need Qt for low end phones? [00:14] no [00:14] ali1234, they sound desperate. trying anything, see what sticks. [00:15] freelore: the irony is that Qt people wanted to port to android officially but couldn't because it would look odd for nokia... but now nokia is with MS, they can... [00:15] aren't they intending to still ship symbian phones though? [00:15] yes [00:15] symbian isn;t low end [00:15] symbian has seen better days [00:15] I think desperate's a pretty apt word for it. they've just seem the biggest cashcow in the market just completely overtake them overnight [00:16] windows phone 7 does look interesting to be fair [00:16] i prefer my symbian phone to my n900 for typical use [00:16] hamitron: it's barely beta in terms of feature completeness [00:16] the email client is miles better for example [00:16] slackthumbz: and android is a moving target [00:16] doesn't touch ios, android or even maemo [00:16] (see earlier complaint about how nothing can handle my mailbox) [00:17] i've never seen a symbian phone that didn't feel underpowered [00:17] symbian^3 runs super fast [00:17] it's really smooth compared to maemo [00:17] I like symbian the best tbh [00:18] but stuff like S60 5e really ruined symbian's reputation [00:18] isn't symbian^3 the one thats not to be confused with the rather old symbian 3? [00:18] the symbian numbering makes no sense at all [00:18] don't even try to understand it [00:19] a bit like ferrari f1 cars [00:19] or most cars ;/ [00:19] it makes even less sense than the way ati and nvidia number their video cards [00:19] and cpu [00:19] and gpu :D [00:19] or even apu [00:20] android has really been over hyped though, imo [00:20] tho i thought apu had already been taken by the sound card people [00:21] my symbian phone makes phone calls.... I can develop apps, also have an ovi store [00:21] ovi store... lol [00:21] its no apple app store [00:21] yeah, ovi store... it's no fun [00:21] ovi store is good tbh [00:21] it has so many usability problems... [00:21] well, it works. put it that way. [00:22] also get free sat nav [00:22] thats becoming standard everywhere [00:22] the mapping tech they bought it pretty good [00:22] still prefer google maps though [00:22] doesn't android need online access for google maps? [00:22] yeah [00:22] so no good on a budget [00:22] oh yeah mean offline sat nav? [00:23] yeh, ovi maps is offline [00:23] *yeah = you [00:23] there are offline maps apps on android [00:23] i didn't know that [00:23] ovi maps is both [00:23] most use openstreetmap [00:23] popey: as good? [00:23] ah, ok [00:23] it will download maps you don't have, or you can preload them, and all the maps are free [00:23] i never found ovi maps to be any good [00:24] the ovi maps program on n900 suuuuuuuuucked [00:24] I've travelled many miles with ovi maps [00:24] :) [00:24] the symbian one is much better [00:24] shauno: never, can't find where you said something similar but for different platforms [00:25] main thing that puts me off android, is all the OS versions [00:25] yes, and the 'will i get the update' lottery [00:25] I don't expect to have to upgrade OS so often [00:26] I still find that funny [00:26] apple tell you you're due 2 OS upgrades past what you bought, people get mad. [00:26] android leave you guessing ... [00:26] both suck ;) [00:26] not forgetting the 'yes, the updates are coming.' rumours [00:26] * hamitron rubs his nokia ngage [00:27] * ali1234 listens to some fleetwood mac [00:27] i'm waiting for the iphone nano [00:27] you know itll happen [00:27] no micro first? [00:27] :/ [00:27] freelore: I'd like a badge that's a phone [00:28] yeah, with a delta shield man! [00:28] and gold trim [00:28] :) [00:28] I want a phone with an i3 cpu [00:29] why not atom? [00:29] those are actually available [00:29] not on a budget though [00:29] i3 would double up as hand warmers [00:29] so does atom :/ [00:29] :) [00:29] a commamd line phone ftw [00:29] with a battery that comes in a stylish holdall [00:30] * HazRPG plays on his dreamcast [00:30] use the "call" command to dial [00:30] that's pretty much meego right now :) [00:30] it has won me over then [00:30] ;) [00:30] i threatened to make a ncurses dialer interface for ofono before [00:31] maybe i should actually do it [00:31] if you have a phone so poor, nobody would want it, no gf can read private texts, nobody would want to steal it [00:31] There are plenty of terminal applications for Android, can you not dial from the command line? [00:31] remove the GUI entirely! [00:32] if your gf reads your private texts, you should get a new gf [00:32] * dwatkins looks this up on iphone [00:32] freelore: why not just get texts she can read? [00:32] or maybe if she reads your private texts, you will *need* to get a new gf [00:32] lucky for me I am so useless at using my phone, nobody ever texts me [00:32] dwatkins, i wasn't advocating it ;) just sayin' [00:32] or you could, y'know, have a relationship built on trust and mutual respect for each others privacy... [00:33] it is always orange txting me to say i have no qualified for magic numbers this month [00:33] not* [00:33] slackthumbz, what are you -- some kinda new ager? [00:33] lolwut [00:33] I hate hippies [00:33] with your crazy ideas about trust and respect [00:34] lulz [00:34] no place for that in a marriage [00:34] crazy sandal-wearing motherf***ers [00:34] the lack of trust makes it interesting anyway [00:34] ;) [00:34] marriage is no less than mental warfare [00:34] I've managed to avoid marriage quite succesfully so far [00:35] in a desperate attempt to drag this back to 'somewhat on-topic', I'll let you know I love my iphone, and think you're all nuts :) [00:35] *cough* [00:35] shauno: "love"? ;/ [00:35] i was joking by the way ;) [00:35] shauno: lol, I'll never buy a device I have 'jailbreak' just to use in a way that I want to. [00:36] * hamitron hands popey a bottle of calpol [00:36] have to* [00:36] do you think a truly open phone will exist? [00:37] perhaps, maemo isn't bad. If meego actually matures into a decent system then yes. [00:37] let me know when you find a telco that aren't evil, with an unhealthy dose of "lost, confused, and not entirely sure how to package the internet as minutes" [00:37] if you build one, it mainly could. apart from a few IC [00:37] then we can worry about a phone that makes use of them :) [00:37] heh [00:38] a fair point [00:38] isn't the interweb Mb now? [00:38] mine is [00:38] 1gb per month included in my conract [00:38] contract* [00:38] 1 quid for 24 hours use on mine iirc [00:39] hamitron: sure. I get n many minutes, n many texts, and n many megs. hence 'trying to package them as minutes' [00:39] i love the fair user stuff. "unlimited internet, limited to exactly 1000mb" [00:39] but I just use my DSL through bluetooth [00:39] *use [00:39] and heaven forbid you try to use another country's internet [00:39] heh, I'm in the philippines right now. Haven't seen any mobile broadband so far [00:40] (I did that once, that vacation cost me more in phone bills than hotels) [00:40] but then again the infrastrtucture here is more 3rd world than yorkshire [00:40] leave yorkshire out of it [00:40] ;/ [00:40] monty python reference [00:41] and now for something completely different [00:41] indeed [00:41] g'night all [00:41] night slackthumbz [00:41] like minecraft me thinks [00:41] :) [00:41] i should be going too. i'll never be up in time to take the kids to school at this rate. night all. [00:42] laters [00:42] thanks for all the help, btw [00:42] funny you should mention that, I'm losing my mind digging a huge subway tunnel atm :( [00:42] ;) [00:42] shauno: where? [00:42] in the floor man [00:46] I gotta say, tunnels aren't very interesting endeavors. it feels like being stuck in an Aniston commercial [02:05] so, if you dig a tunnel so far that it exceeds the render distance, it doesn't tail off into darkness. the 'fog' is sky coloured (and night-coloured, and sunset colour, as appropriate at the time). [02:05] so it's official. "the light at the end of the tunnel" is a bug. [02:05] yea [02:05] i have rooms that big [02:06] i built a map that big in half-life once :p [02:06] never played halflife :/ [02:07] I'm fairly sporadic with games. I'll play the same things for year on end, while the rest of the world passes me by [02:08] about the only pattern to them so far is that shooting people in the face just ain't my thing [02:09] (zombies, however, are perfectly acceptable. it's not a fps thing. just not a fan of war/reality-based shooters. gimme quake :) [06:06] hi [06:06] Any good apps for task/event available in Ubuntu ? [06:06] I mean task reminder [06:43] checking in again for the query ? [07:33] kaushal: it was 6AM when you asked, chances are people are asleep / commuting [07:33] popey: apologies [07:37] popey: I have tasque but it doesnot have popup or reminder [07:37] Can you please suggest something ? [07:38] evolution? [07:38] Myrtti: I do not use Evolution [07:38] I mean any desktop apps [07:38] anyways fine [07:42] Hmm... When I switched servers I didnt come here xP [07:57] morning all [07:57] morning [07:58] morning AlanBell hows things mate? [07:59] morning TheOpenSourcerer [08:00] is it? [08:08] Morning === WillyWonka is now known as kirrrus [08:15] Happy Friday, almost the start of the weekend [08:20] well done AlanBell [08:21] \o [08:40] morning :) [08:41] Heya screen-x [08:42] morning DJones :) [08:43] I'm feeling quite alert this morning, had 10 hours sleep! much better than the 4 I had yesterday. [08:43] Also no phone interview to stress about today :) [08:44] That will certainly reduce the stress levels === kirrrus is now known as kirrus [08:46] gah - screen-x I had about 2 hrs - have been awake feeling bloated and uncomfortable since about 02:30am... :-( [08:47] TheOpenSourcerer: :( [09:07] Evening [09:07] Also, who released dutchie from the grammar prison? [09:08] wotcha all [09:08] o/ [09:09] TheOpenSourcerer: it's a big day tomorrow - you can't afford to have Delhi Belly today! [09:09] Better to get it out of the way today danfish [09:10] * TheOpenSourcerer is spinning up 4 new VMs for a customer (unfortunately they use CPanel & CentOS) but the host is Ubuntu :-) [09:11] I need to reinsall a server at work with Ubuntu, as I think it [09:11] will work much better than Fedora for various things including vmware. [09:13] * danfish has caught up with FLOSS Weekly and set up a Big Blue Button VM to mess around with [09:13] actually very painless and looks quite useful, though rather flash over dependent [09:17] odd question, but does anyone know if I should be concerned about penecillin alergies if a parent has the same? or does it not work like that [09:22] shauno: Ask a medical expert, like a doctor :) [09:22] heh, yeah, I know. but I'm at work, and I'm never quite sure where/when to trust the internet [09:23] shauno: that's why you shouldn't ask the internet, but a doctor ;) [09:23] as far as I can tell, most sites I'm seeing are setup to take advertising dollars from hypochondriacs. I'm more "nosey because I've never done this before" [09:23] shauno: no - there is no proven correlation [09:23] sweet, cheers [09:24] However, being alert for symptoms shouldn't matter :) [09:24] MartijnVdS: quite right [09:45] Happy Red Nose Day! *8OD [09:49] bejesus - we've that to look forwards to 2nite :( [09:49] danfish: its not compulsasry, /me will be on the M4 for most of it.. [09:50] TheOpenSourcerer: any v6 support in cPanel yet? [09:53] danfish: mini Dr Who episode \o/ [09:54] MartijnVdS: that's more like it :) [09:56] * DJones would prefer it if the time comic relief was on was an extended DW episode with a mini comic relief segment in it :) [09:57] woot, new HDD for my laptop \o/ [09:57] morning daubers :) [09:58] screen-x: Quite probably, though my brain still feels like it's night :) [09:58] Also, morning :) [09:58] daubers: Still doing the Australian support? [09:58] DJones: No, end of a very long project. Just finishing getting the system running as the customer wants [09:59] daubers: Shame, you could have asked for a site visit [09:59] Discovered that my IPC stuff had issues yesterday [09:59] DJones: Possibly doing an install in Dubai in a couple of months [09:59] Which will mean a week out that way [09:59] Kinda half way to Aus :) [10:00] daubers: Thats true, when I went to oz years ago, there was a stopover in Dubai [10:25] aloha [10:26] morning [10:26] is something broken on the internets? [10:27] yes [10:28] dwatkins: more speficially? [10:28] Hi kids :) [10:38] andylockran: it is morraly broken [10:38] O NOES [10:38] just hows we likes it [10:39] andylockran: oh sorry, I'm sure that something is broken (my VPN connection for one thing) ;) [10:39] too many dirty pictures/minute? [10:45] anyone noticing problems with BT advertising a load of networks? [10:51] !logs [10:51] Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [10:55] Morning all - is anyone here using natty with the gnome 3 team ppa? [10:57] Argh! [10:57] I hate politics! [10:57] anyone know when the census deadline is? [10:58] screen-x you can do it online can't you? [10:58] gil: yep [10:59] I think it's ages from now [10:59] but if it doesn't have a deadline, it's chances of being filled are low [10:59] it's got vague legal threats attached to not filling it in, if that helps [11:00] a little, maybe I'll use census day (the 27th) as the deadline [11:02] popey / Daviey / AlanBell Question: PoC or Team Leader. There's a lot of discussion on which throughout the past, which is confused by Davieys first meeting as whichever stating " and my first meeting as Leader / PoC", the wiki stating PoC, and popey was definatley PoC when he was in charge....? [11:02] * daubers has just scanned a 3 years of ML posts and the irc logs from 2008/9 [11:03] an interesting question, just been talking to czajkowski about that [11:03] screen-x: sent by 31st march IIRC [11:03] daubers, Wow, straight in there :) [11:03] AlanBell: Yeah, she manages to confuse things :) [11:03] I didn't realise there was that much of an important distinction [11:03] daubers: Going back to when Daviey took over from popey, I thought it was described as POC rather than team leader [11:03] This is true... [11:03] BigRedS: thanks. [11:03] DJones: I can't find anything written down that makes the distinction in the UK LoCo stuff [11:03] Back before popey, when it was Nick - it was a Lead. [11:03] Hence digging through logs and lists [11:04] I don't think popey chose for it to be a PoC. [11:04] daubers: Have you looked at this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto [11:04] DJones: Yes, but I wanted to see if we as a group had made a decision first :) [11:04] I thought the terminology changed globally at some point, but it was a new name for the same thing [11:04] In some ways, it's a little dis-empowering - and a worthy question of being answered before the new fool takes over :). [11:05] anyone going to http://bringonipv6.com/ [11:06] One of the differences seems to be that teams don't need a "team leader" but they do need a "point of contact" [11:07] Urgh... confused now [11:07] Mez, Doesn't look that exciting, i'd be surprised if there is much meat there. [11:08] so can anyone help me locate ligtk3.0-0? I have an upgrade for gucharmap but I can't do it because it needs libgtk3.0-0 which I can't seem to find anywhere :( [11:08] 11:04:15 < Daviey> I don't think popey chose for it to be a PoC. [11:08] I didnt [11:08] the name was "changed" to PoC by people who held a meeting whilst I was on holiday [11:08] Daviey: free food though :P [11:08] shortly prior to popey taking over IIRC. [11:08] Mez, heh [11:09] I suppose the question here should be "Should we have a more formal leadership chain?" rather than the ad hoc people do what they want to do and we have a PoC to talk to the broader worls? [11:09] gil, what version of ubuntu are you running? [11:09] gord I am running natty with the gnome3 team ppa [11:09] In Ubuntu projects we call them team leaders [11:09] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct [11:09] Daviey: am tempted to go just to bitch @ AOL people :D [11:09] gil, then you should have libgtk3.0-0 [11:10] gord I know :( [11:10] gil, update? [11:10] [Iain Cuthbertson] Getting a random wp-block by regex - http://www.myrant.net/2011/03/18/getting-a-random-wp-block-by-regex/ [11:10] I think PoC is a worthless moniker, a team _needs_ leadership [11:10] I must say, something i found quite quickly is the ability to JFDI is significantly reduced with just a PoC [11:10] gord the update fails because it can't find libgtk3.0-0 :( [11:11] but as i suspect popey found, when you are in the hot seat - it's perhaps inappropriate to change that. [11:11] gil, remove the silly ppa - it may be doing stupid things [11:11] yup [11:11] it was "voted" by the "team" [11:11] (in fact it was raised by one person at the meeting with very little discussion) [11:11] that person now doesn't actually contribute to Ubuntu at all, and hasnt done for a year or more [11:11] Right, so what we need to do is define what a Team Leader should do, if there should be a PoC or some other components to the leadership grouping and then put a proposal _everywhere_ and get a meeting together about it? [11:11] back seat drivers ftw [11:11] gord - I have libgtk-3.0 from ubuntu but the gnome 3 team ppa which is supposed to be the semi-official ubuntu build for gnome 3 doesn't recognise it.... that's the crux of my problem I think :( [11:12] gil, no such thing as semi official, ppa's can and will screw up your system [11:12] personally in general terms I think *any* role is what you make of it, not what happens to be on the business card [11:12]