| greg-g | :) | 00:37 |
|---|---|---|
| jjesse | well hello greg-g | 00:38 |
| greg-g | hi there, I'm actually smiling because I guilt tripped DBO to rejoin the channel ;) | 00:38 |
| DBO | :) | 00:39 |
| greg-g | man, jcastro is really a great cheer leader | 00:41 |
| greg-g | (for context, see #ubuntu-meeting) | 00:41 |
| jcastro | he's like 4 years late | 00:41 |
| greg-g | ;) | 00:41 |
| greg-g | I know dude, we're gonna vote soon, nhandler is just at dinner, and he has control of the bot :/ | 00:42 |
| jjesse | meeting going on? | 00:42 |
| greg-g | yep | 00:42 |
| brousch | eh? | 00:43 |
| brousch | voting whether to become #debian-us-mi or #gentoo-us-mi? | 00:44 |
| jjesse | lol | 00:44 |
| jjesse | #ubuntu-meeting | 00:44 |
| jjesse | for DBO | 00:44 |
| greg-g | brousch: :P | 00:45 |
| DBO | :) | 00:45 |
| * DBO just glad I didn't code through a second one of these | 00:46 | |
| DBO | multitouch is sooo interesting | 00:46 |
| greg-g | (he's a member now) | 00:49 |
| DBO | what happens if a vote goes 50/50? | 00:51 |
| greg-g | you know, I don't know, we usually try to have an odd number of people voting, but that doesn't always happen | 00:53 |
| greg-g | and, we've never had that kind of split | 00:53 |
| DBO | i hope the answer involves a Rancor | 00:54 |
| DBO | I considered attempting to get sabdfl to write a testimonial... just to see if he would | 00:55 |
| jrwren | i vote no. | 00:55 |
| greg-g | haha, that'd be awesome | 00:57 |
| DBO | does wmich.edu still run a mirror I wonder... | 00:57 |
| rick_h_ | snap-l: your twitter name is too long | 01:26 |
| rick_h_ | too hard to fit it :P | 01:26 |
| brousch | too long and too hard? | 01:36 |
| brousch | i got flask running on google app engine. it's much, much smaller than django with non-rel patch | 01:41 |
| brousch | like 200 files compared to 2000 | 01:42 |
| jjesse | do sportscasters actually listen to what they say? | 01:42 |
| jjesse | one just said "that was a big squirt" | 01:42 |
| brousch | took 4 seconds to be ready to serve compared to 2 minutes | 01:43 |
| rick_h_ | brousch: yea, flash is great for that small kind of stuff | 01:48 |
| Blazeix | let it be known that rick_h_ encourages people to use flash. | 01:49 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: Sorry, but blame Twitter fr not allowing me to use my old account | 01:59 |
| jjesse | apparently im supposed to thank craig for his awesome editing | 02:18 |
| snap-l | jjesse: You're welcome. :) | 02:20 |
| snap-l | http://i.imgur.com/zWMXc.jpg | 03:08 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix: not sure on the replacement | 03:43 |
| rick_h_ | I know the definition is "tags separated with spaces" | 03:43 |
| rick_h_ | so yea, it breaks up spaces right now | 03:43 |
| rick_h_ | I've not looked at catching "some tag" and such yet | 03:44 |
| Blazeix | ok. for now the google bookmark importer replaces spaces with hyphens, just to match the end result of the delicious importer. | 03:52 |
| rick_h_ | yea, caught that. It different since delicious puts all the tags into a tag="this tag list" | 03:53 |
| rick_h_ | so I can't tell they're separate, but google bookmarks does the repitition stuff you can catch | 03:53 |
| rick_h_ | works for me for now though | 03:53 |
| rick_h_ | tests pass :) | 03:54 |
| Blazeix | delicious comma-separates them, i think | 03:55 |
| Blazeix | right, ship it! | 03:56 |
| tjagoda | Ubuntu server question | 11:29 |
| tjagoda | I want to chart system resource usage over time | 11:29 |
| tjagoda | I would assume there is already a package for this? | 11:29 |
| rick_h_ | tjagoda: yea, you're looking at something like cacti http://www.cacti.net/ or munin | 11:47 |
| tjagoda | nm, I just added a crontab to output the uptime command into a logfile | 11:48 |
| tjagoda | I dont need anything crazy | 11:51 |
| tjagoda | Just want to see the load over 24 hours or so | 11:51 |
| brousch | tjagoda: did you find the mythical code-free custom business webapp creator? | 11:56 |
| tjagoda | You all misunderstood me | 11:58 |
| tjagoda | I resolved to write it in PERL | 11:58 |
| tjagoda | I was wondering if there were any frameworks which would make my life easier in not having to code everything from the ground up | 11:58 |
| brousch | a perl framework? | 11:59 |
| tjagoda | I resolved to write it in PERL post-looking for frameworks | 11:59 |
| brousch | why do you hate yourself so much? | 12:00 |
| tjagoda | Why would anyone not want to code with a chainsaw? | 12:00 |
| brousch | because its easy to cut off your own leg | 12:00 |
| brousch | and no one wants to help a chainsaw-wielding madman | 12:01 |
| tjagoda | My business application will be a temple to Larry Wall | 12:02 |
| tjagoda | I wonder how I can figure out disk throughput on ubuntu server | 12:03 |
| * tjagoda googles more | 12:03 | |
| rick_h_ | so I've got some Pycon t-shirts, stickers, and IDE discount codes for people at the next CHC | 12:07 |
| rick_h_ | don't let me forget | 12:07 |
| widox | morning | 12:09 |
| tjagoda | hola | 12:09 |
| brousch | ide discounts? | 12:09 |
| brousch | rick_h_: you mean like pycharm? | 12:11 |
| rick_h_ | I've got wingide and komodo | 12:14 |
| rick_h_ | I don't think I grabbed the pycharm one | 12:14 |
| rick_h_ | they were there with discounts, but don't think it was in the goody bag | 12:15 |
| brousch | i use komodo's free version often | 12:15 |
| brousch | the paid version adds debugging, woohoo | 12:16 |
| rick_h_ | $50 off komodo software thorgh 3/31 | 12:16 |
| rick_h_ | and 50% off wingide professional | 12:16 |
| brousch | never tried that one | 12:16 |
| rick_h_ | it's one of the best for python | 12:16 |
| rick_h_ | much better than komodo | 12:16 |
| rick_h_ | imo | 12:16 |
| brousch | komodo is nice for webapps because it understands css and html | 12:16 |
| brousch | i think it even does django templates now | 12:17 |
| brousch | did you feel dirty picking up those discounts? | 12:18 |
| brousch | looks like wing does django templates too | 12:18 |
| rick_h_ | no, I'm not using them | 12:19 |
| rick_h_ | but figured give-aways with the group is good stuff | 12:19 |
| snap-l | g'mornin' | 12:41 |
| rick_h_ | party | 12:41 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: You get home OK last night? | 12:43 |
| rick_h_ | yea | 12:43 |
| rick_h_ | just made the waiting list for the next flight 2hrs later | 12:44 |
| snap-l | Coolness | 12:44 |
| snap-l | That was my biggest fear whenI was flying. | 12:45 |
| rick_h_ | yea, it was a big newbie mistake | 12:45 |
| snap-l | Well, second biggest. First biggest was being detained by TSA for having more than 3oz of fluid | 12:45 |
| rick_h_ | for some reason I had the time on the ticket as boarding time, and they moved the gate on me, etc | 12:45 |
| snap-l | ugh | 12:45 |
| snap-l | Banshee is going to have DVD support? | 12:46 |
| snap-l | They're working hard to be Windows Media Center, aren't they? | 12:47 |
| brousch | i'm watching the IDE shootout panel from pycon 2011. pycharm looks really nice | 13:15 |
| rick_h_ | brousch: yea, it's the new kid on the block and supposedly is nice and updating fast | 13:15 |
| brousch | i was supposed to try it in feb and never got to it | 13:16 |
| brousch | also, it's frickin awesome that thse videos are up already | 13:17 |
| rick_h_ | yea, they had them up in the middle of the conference | 13:17 |
| rick_h_ | by day 2, day one videos were going up, just crazy | 13:17 |
| brousch | i found 5 i need to watch | 13:18 |
| brousch | was it the same group of video people as at pyohio? | 13:18 |
| rick_h_ | you should find more than that | 13:18 |
| rick_h_ | yea, same group | 13:18 |
| rick_h_ | PSF pays them I think | 13:18 |
| brousch | damn, wing looks good too. maybe there's something to non-free ides | 13:22 |
| rick_h_ | I was a big fan of wing | 13:23 |
| rick_h_ | I just got cranky because I did php by day | 13:23 |
| rick_h_ | python by night | 13:23 |
| rick_h_ | and was using Zend studio for php, wing for python and tired of two editors | 13:23 |
| brousch | heh, emacs is in the shootout, but no vim | 13:24 |
| rick_h_ | yea, I was in another talk :( | 13:24 |
| rick_h_ | or else I would have represented | 13:24 |
| brousch | heh | 13:25 |
| rick_h_ | first conference in a while I didn't do an vim openspace | 13:25 |
| brousch | so were you demoing awesome in the hall? | 13:25 |
| rick_h_ | heh no, but ran into a few fellow users | 13:25 |
| brousch | the qtile guy mentioned seeing someone demoing awesome in the hall and so decided to do his lightening talk | 13:25 |
| rick_h_ | heh, wasn't me | 13:26 |
| brousch | emacs guy is running ubuntu on mbp | 13:29 |
| brousch | you would have blown them all away | 13:31 |
| jrwren | tjagoda: i didn't know you were looking for perl frameworks. I'll look up the name of the one that I would use. | 13:53 |
| jrwren | tjagoda: your question was "what language would ya'll use..." wasn't it? | 13:54 |
| tjagoda | I originally asked for a good framework in general, afterwards deciding that I wanted to use a chainsaw (read: perl) | 13:55 |
| jrwren | oh, chainsaw. cool. | 13:59 |
| rick_h_ | python, stdlib ftw | 13:59 |
| rick_h_ | http://docs.python.org/library/index.html#library-index | 14:03 |
| jrwren | stdlib? | 14:22 |
| jrwren | what specifically? | 14:22 |
| rick_h_ | just if you're trying to do system stuff there's a ton of tools that's OS specific/etc | 14:23 |
| rick_h_ | and it's not extra packages | 14:23 |
| jrwren | oh yeah, definitely. | 14:23 |
| rick_h_ | so for a framework, fewer extra deps ftw | 14:23 |
| jrwren | perl has the same great system stuff | 14:23 |
| snap-l | Perl is quite rich when it comes to built-in foo | 14:24 |
| rick_h_ | counting cpan as 'built in'? | 14:24 |
| snap-l | No, not counting cpan | 14:24 |
| jrwren | although last time I used perl, sets were external had to get from cpan, where python sets are NICE | 14:24 |
| rick_h_ | gotcha, k | 14:24 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Python has had the benefit of a more visible and active development process in the past few years | 14:25 |
| snap-l | and it looks like more stuff is getting backported from 3 to 2 | 14:25 |
| jrwren | s/few years/decade/ | 14:25 |
| snap-l | jrwren: now now... | 14:25 |
| jrwren | seriously. | 14:25 |
| snap-l | I'm sure 5.14 is just lovely. ;) | 14:25 |
| jrwren | there is a 5.14? | 14:26 |
| snap-l | iirc, there is | 14:26 |
| jrwren | wait. | 14:26 |
| jrwren | there is a 5.12 ? | 14:26 |
| snap-l | and a 5.10, 5.8 | 14:26 |
| jrwren | yes, those I've used. | 14:26 |
| jrwren | i've not used 5.12 or 5.14 | 14:26 |
| jrwren | perl -V on mavrick says 5.10 :) | 14:26 |
| snap-l | Yeah, not many folks have adopted 5.12 | 14:27 |
| snap-l | http://perldoc.perl.org/perldelta.html | 14:27 |
| snap-l | http://www.effectiveperlprogramming.com/blog/531 | 14:27 |
| snap-l | I mean, it's not as sexy as the releast of Python that included sets, and other from __future__ import goodness... | 14:28 |
| snap-l | but there's still a pulse. | 14:28 |
| snap-l | apparently. | 14:28 |
| snap-l | hell, I'm sure someone was waiting for Carp to get an upgrade. | 14:28 |
| snap-l | *cough* | 14:29 |
| rick_h_ | you can upgrade fish? | 14:29 |
| snap-l | I can slap you with one. | 14:30 |
| rick_h_ | :) | 14:30 |
| snap-l | I managed to pick up a booklinght on steroids last night from Staples for 11.50 | 14:31 |
| snap-l | It's a desk lamp with at least 16 LEDs in it | 14:32 |
| snap-l | 6x6, so 36 (hadn't looked under there until now. :) ) | 14:32 |
| jrwren | oooh.. Carp... | 14:33 |
| snap-l | Nice and cool as well, though the directions tell you not to put it next to anything flammable. | 14:33 |
| jrwren | i only remember the name and I can't remember wht Carp actually is. | 14:33 |
| snap-l | error handling | 14:34 |
| _stink_ | snap-l: "put it next to" or "point it at"? | 14:34 |
| snap-l | _stink_: keep away from materials that burn | 14:34 |
| _stink_ | i was hoping it was a firebeam. | 14:36 |
| rick_h_ | anyone want to do me a favor a deface a site? | 14:37 |
| rick_h_ | I'll give you the keys | 14:37 |
| snap-l | only if I have indemnity | 14:37 |
| rick_h_ | depressing that I'm sitting here doing horrible security things because I'm told to "the client wants it to be easier" | 14:37 |
| rick_h_ | tor? | 14:37 |
| snap-l | too risky | 14:37 |
| rick_h_ | crap | 14:37 |
| snap-l | Could post it to full disclosure | 14:38 |
| brousch | this is why wikileaks was created | 14:38 |
| rick_h_ | heh | 14:38 |
| snap-l | I'm sure someone would bork it for you | 14:38 |
| rick_h_ | heh, no I don't want anonymous involved. Just want one small lesson. | 14:38 |
| * rick_h_ hangs head in shame | 14:38 | |
| snap-l | What are they having you do? | 14:39 |
| * rick_h_ is resetting passwords from random generated 6 char to 4 digits | 14:40 | |
| rick_h_ | and the 4 digits are in the usernames | 14:40 |
| brousch | awesome | 14:40 |
| rick_h_ | yea, these guys are my heros | 14:40 |
| rick_h_ | and it's an app that's on the public internet not limited to an intranet | 14:40 |
| snap-l | Almost as good as the site that I was maintaining that would send you one of 6 passwords if you forgot it | 14:40 |
| rick_h_ | so I've raised hell for the last several months as the project went along | 14:40 |
| snap-l | really secure | 14:41 |
| rick_h_ | and I finally got overruled | 14:41 |
| snap-l | Hey, you just made some rainbow tabler's life that much easier. ;) | 14:41 |
| Blazeix | I have a client with admin privileges to her public website, and she refused to change her password. | 14:41 |
| Blazeix | her password is her username. | 14:42 |
| rick_h_ | and not only that, but the digits are matched to store #'s so if you worked/knew anything you could guess | 14:42 |
| rick_h_ | so not even random 4 digits | 14:42 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: You could send the interested parties the hack that happened to gawker media | 14:42 |
| rick_h_ | my boss saw that, sent him all that info | 14:43 |
| snap-l | someone gets a bug up their butt about your site, you're going down if you don't have good security. | 14:43 |
| rick_h_ | he was my lat hope | 14:43 |
| snap-l | and he overruled? | 14:43 |
| rick_h_ | /lat/last | 14:43 |
| rick_h_ | end of the day it sounds like one of those "client pays the bills, give what they want" | 14:43 |
| snap-l | Could put a little note in the password e-mail: Here is your ridiculously simple and easy to remember password. Hope your admin made backups". | 14:44 |
| brousch | until they blame you when they get defaced | 14:44 |
| rick_h_ | well, I pushed that we make them sign something that says we're not responsible and will not correct the data if defaced | 14:45 |
| rick_h_ | they've not written/signed this, but discussed it | 14:45 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: You've done your job then | 14:45 |
| rick_h_ | yea, I know...still depressing as hell to run these commands | 14:46 |
| snap-l | and hopefully your company will be smart and follow through | 14:46 |
| brousch | i assume your objections have all been documented | 14:47 |
| rick_h_ | yea, email out the yingyang | 14:48 |
| rick_h_ | heh, asked in my email "have we had them sign the ..." and the reply was "thanks for the work" with no reference to my question | 15:15 |
| krondor | Woo, first ubuntu server in production at my work; mission accomplished | 15:19 |
| rick_h_ | congrats! | 15:21 |
| krondor | Thought I'd never see a non suse or redhat box here | 15:22 |
| jrwren | congrats, I guess. | 15:32 |
| jrwren | IMO that was always fighting hte wrong battle, but if you are happy about it, then congrats. | 15:33 |
| brousch | what is the right battle? | 15:34 |
| jrwren | less windows servers, more linux servers. | 15:34 |
| brousch | sounds like he's already won that battle | 15:35 |
| jrwren | could be. | 15:37 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix: you seen this? http://zeptojs.com/ | 15:54 |
| snap-l | aerogel-weight? | 15:59 |
| snap-l | Why am I geting the feeling this will be as heavy as jQuery in two years? | 16:00 |
| rick_h_ | meh, two years be doing a different library, or language, or something | 16:00 |
| snap-l | Well, I love these "minimal" frameworks | 16:01 |
| snap-l | they start off light and fluffy | 16:01 |
| rick_h_ | well I love the idea | 16:01 |
| rick_h_ | you can drop a ton of code in jquery | 16:01 |
| snap-l | and then framework puberty hits, and suddenly they can't keep the pounds off | 16:01 |
| rick_h_ | when you target mobile only | 16:02 |
| rick_h_ | especially because it's basically targetting one, mobile webkit | 16:02 |
| snap-l | and then someone comes along and says "hey, we need a minimal framework" | 16:02 |
| snap-l | wash, rinse, repeat... | 16:02 |
| rick_h_ | it's how things get better | 16:05 |
| rick_h_ | see "we need a minimal browser..." FF is born | 16:05 |
| jrwren | jquery is heavy? | 16:05 |
| rick_h_ | for mobile it can be | 16:05 |
| jrwren | ah, definitely. | 16:05 |
| jrwren | in 2 yrs jquery won't be heavy for mobile. | 16:06 |
| jrwren | mobile JS will be fast as hell | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | that's this thing, keep the API, drop all the extra browser stuff | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | yea | 16:06 |
| jrwren | oh!!! | 16:06 |
| jrwren | zeptojs is jquery compat. brilliant! | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | exactly | 16:06 |
| jrwren | that is brilliant. | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | in theory you could keep a lot of your code using jquery for the live site and move to movile | 16:06 |
| jrwren | especially for really shitty mobile like WP7 and blackberry | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | so maybe keep the events, control code | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | but replace the ui interaction bit with mobile specific | 16:07 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: Yeah, this does look cool. :) | 16:07 |
| rick_h_ | ouch, my bookmarks file 300k | 16:09 |
| rick_h_ | lmorchard's 4.8mb | 16:09 |
| rick_h_ | this is going to be fun | 16:09 |
| rick_h_ | time to kill sqlite | 16:10 |
| rick_h_ | 1:20s, not as bad as I thought it would be | 16:12 |
| rick_h_ | damn, 7.3k tags, 16.7k bookmarks | 16:13 |
| snap-l | Oh brilliant, A/L blocks one.ubuntu.com | 16:45 |
| snap-l | _and_ dropbox.com | 16:45 |
| brousch | they found you out | 16:46 |
| snap-l | thank God they don't block port.usb | 16:46 |
| brousch | yet | 16:51 |
| snap-l | and when they do, I'll stop using this piece of shit Windows machine for anything other than e-mail | 16:54 |
| snap-l | and Microsoft Communicator | 16:54 |
| snap-l | Man, Windows is slow. | 17:23 |
| tjagoda | XP? | 17:34 |
| snap-l | ayep | 17:36 |
| jrwren | its likely not windows or even XP, but rather insane corporate group policy and AV | 18:08 |
| tjagoda | Symantec endpoint eats systems alive | 18:14 |
| tjagoda | I am amazed, always, by how fast fresh XP installations run before I let people or AV touch them | 18:14 |
| snap-l | jrwren: ding ding ding | 18:22 |
| snap-l | mcaffee here | 18:22 |
| jrwren | i should NOT have had those 2 beers at lunch. | 19:03 |
| jcastro | http://ignitedetroit.net/ | 19:05 |
| jcastro | snap-l: ^ | 19:05 |
| jcastro | rick_h_: ^ | 19:05 |
| jcastro | greg-g: ^ | 19:05 |
| jcastro | everyone ^ | 19:05 |
| gamerchick02 | two beers at lunch? | 19:05 |
| gamerchick02 | sounds like the way to do it! :) | 19:05 |
| snap-l | When are tickets going up, since the site hasn't been updated | 19:06 |
| rick_h_ | cool | 19:10 |
| rick_h_ | thanks for the reminder jcastro | 19:10 |
| jrwren | gamerchick02: yeah, and NCAA b-ball. good time. | 19:10 |
| gamerchick02 | oooh. cool. | 19:10 |
| gamerchick02 | i'm not a fan of basketball, but it's a good reason to have a couple beers at lunch. :) | 19:11 |
| jcastro | snap-l: they are up, it's nonobvious, click on the box on the right | 19:11 |
| jcastro | wrt. ignitedetroit register because they sell out fast, you can always give them to someone else if you can't make it | 19:12 |
| rick_h_ | jcastro: wife friendly you htink? | 19:12 |
| jcastro | rick_h_: very much so | 19:13 |
| jcastro | jill loved it | 19:13 |
| jcastro | all the subjects are interesting, it's not tech heavy | 19:13 |
| jcastro | like there was one on "how to buy a car without getting ripped off", etc. | 19:13 |
| jcastro | they're all very interesting | 19:13 |
| rick_h_ | k, registered | 19:13 |
| rick_h_ | thanks | 19:13 |
| greg-g | wtf, the onclick() isn't working when I click register! | 19:18 |
| greg-g | ok, chromium works, but not Fx4? oh well, registered! | 19:19 |
| snap-l | just registered. | 19:20 |
| jrwren | Fx4? JavaFX? | 19:20 |
| snap-l | Firefox 4 | 19:20 |
| jrwren | Flex4 ? | 19:20 |
| jrwren | isn't that FF4 / | 19:20 |
| snap-l | Nobody uses Java | 19:20 |
| greg-g | it is the official short name for Firefox | 19:20 |
| jrwren | rofl. I wish noone used java. | 19:20 |
| snap-l | meant JavaFX | 19:20 |
| jrwren | it is? I've always seen Fx as the abrev for Flex | 19:20 |
| snap-l | jrwren: There is a world outside of Miscrosoft / Adobe. ;) | 19:21 |
| greg-g | https://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/releases/1.5.html#FAQ | 19:21 |
| snap-l | You should step outside and smell the fresh air sometime. ;) | 19:21 |
| jrwren | no there isn't. | 19:21 |
| snap-l | Well, I hope the tea is good, number 6 | 19:21 |
| jrwren | http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/ | 19:22 |
| snap-l | Flex's new abbreviation is FuckYourselfInTheNex | 19:23 |
| snap-l | 4 | 19:23 |
| jrwren | *gasp* how offensive | 19:23 |
| snap-l | Mission Accomplished | 19:23 |
| jrwren | wasn't the linux community in love with Air for about a month when tweetdeck first shipped? | 19:24 |
| snap-l | Yeah, and then they realized the only thing Air was good for was twitter apps | 19:24 |
| snap-l | and someone in the group-think-tank decided that Adobe should die in a fire. | 19:25 |
| jcastro | jrwren: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hbdpomandigafcibbmofojjchbcdagbl | 19:33 |
| jcastro | jrwren: though there's a weburl somewhere | 19:33 |
| jrwren | snap-l: such a fickle user base. | 19:39 |
| jrwren | so now people run tweetdeck in chrome instead of air? | 19:39 |
| jrwren | oh, there is tweetdeck chrome and tweetdeck desktop. | 19:40 |
| jcastro | the chrome thing is just their webapp packaged for chrome | 19:44 |
| * jcastro personally uses seesmic.com/web | 19:44 | |
| * snap-l uses gwibber / vim | 19:46 | |
| snap-l | And yes, userbases are fickle | 19:46 |
| snap-l | I think Air's biggest problem was that people treated it like a desktop app, and it wsan't. | 19:46 |
| snap-l | Man, i do not like SOAp | 19:47 |
| _stink_ | me neither. | 19:47 |
| _stink_ | snap-l: you writing a client or something? | 19:48 |
| snap-l | trying to write one in Python with suds | 19:49 |
| snap-l | just to test some foo for work | 19:49 |
| _stink_ | snap-l: ah, cool. i found suds a few weeks ago. seems ok. | 19:49 |
| snap-l | and I'm not understanding how to get what I'm seeing in our developer guide into suds | 19:49 |
| _stink_ | i confess i just fed suds a WSDL file and that was that. | 19:50 |
| snap-l | yeah, that's what I'm attempting as well | 19:50 |
| snap-l | though there's a login piece (not HTTPAuth, afaict) that I need to pass along | 19:51 |
| snap-l | Thank God for stack overflow. ;) | 19:52 |
| _stink_ | hehe | 19:52 |
| snap-l | Ah, it's a separate piece for wsse | 19:53 |
| snap-l | I should have asked the GOOG a while ago | 19:53 |
| jrwren | SOAP sucks unless you are using great tools along with it. | 19:55 |
| snap-l | jrwren: SOAP looks like it's best used with a program that just writes the damn code for you | 19:58 |
| krondor | I once tried to write a bad program against the soap apis for novell groupwise, I ende | 20:08 |
| krondor | Sorry, ended up just using com | 20:08 |
| Milyardo | What can SOAP do that XMLRPC can't? | 20:09 |
| krondor | I cringe just looking at that sentencd | 20:09 |
| krondor | Soap supports different encodings and data types it seems, I think it has support for authentication methods too | 20:16 |
| _stink_ | yeah, it does. | 20:16 |
| Milyardo | If my understaning of SOAP and XMLRPC is correct, that they are tools to serialize structured information, then authentication sounds like it doesn't really belong | 20:19 |
| Milyardo | *understnaing of the purpose of XMLRPC and SOAP | 20:19 |
| Milyardo | *understanding -> | 20:19 |
| krondor | I think soap needed the authentication as services tried to rely on xml-rpc to manipulate an API (like in the case of groupwise) from xml input | 20:22 |
| krondor | Not just structure the information, but act on it | 20:23 |
| krondor | Did that make sense? IANA programmer | 20:26 |
| Milyardo | Not really an arguement for "why authentication shouldn't be handled more approiately elsewhere", more of a "why applications that XMLRPC need authentication" | 20:29 |
| Milyardo | The problem is that the transport for XMLRPC(HTTP) is stateless | 20:30 |
| Milyardo | You'd be better off implementing authentication in HTTP than in your document | 20:31 |
| krondor | Yeah I was just going off where I've seen it used (shudder group wise) not if it was the right thing to do | 20:33 |
| * krondor quitting time | 20:41 | |
| brousch | man, that's nice. pycharm has google app engine runs and uploads built-in | 23:28 |
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