[00:37] <greg-g> :)
[00:38] <jjesse> well hello greg-g
[00:38] <greg-g> hi there, I'm actually smiling because I guilt tripped DBO to rejoin the channel ;)
[00:39] <DBO> :)
[00:41] <greg-g> man, jcastro is really a great cheer leader
[00:41] <greg-g> (for context, see #ubuntu-meeting)
[00:41] <jcastro> he's like 4 years late
[00:41] <greg-g> ;)
[00:42] <greg-g> I know dude, we're gonna vote soon, nhandler is just at dinner, and he has control of the bot :/
[00:42] <jjesse> meeting going on?
[00:42] <greg-g> yep
[00:43] <brousch> eh?
[00:44] <brousch> voting whether to become #debian-us-mi or #gentoo-us-mi?
[00:44] <jjesse> lol
[00:44] <jjesse> #ubuntu-meeting
[00:44] <jjesse> for DBO
[00:45] <greg-g> brousch: :P
[00:45] <DBO> :)
[00:46]  * DBO just glad I didn't code through a second one of these
[00:46] <DBO> multitouch is sooo interesting
[00:49] <greg-g> (he's a member now)
[00:51] <DBO> what happens if a vote goes 50/50?
[00:53] <greg-g> you know, I don't know, we usually try to have an odd number of people voting, but that doesn't always happen
[00:53] <greg-g> and, we've never had that kind of split
[00:54] <DBO> i hope the answer involves a Rancor
[00:55] <DBO> I considered attempting to get sabdfl to write a testimonial... just to see if he would
[00:55] <jrwren> i vote no.
[00:57] <greg-g> haha, that'd be awesome
[00:57] <DBO> does wmich.edu still run a mirror I wonder...
[01:26] <rick_h_> snap-l: your twitter name is too long
[01:26] <rick_h_> too hard to fit it :P
[01:36] <brousch> too long and too hard?
[01:41] <brousch> i got flask running on google app engine. it's much, much smaller than django with non-rel patch
[01:42] <brousch> like 200 files compared to 2000
[01:42] <jjesse> do sportscasters actually listen to what they say?
[01:42] <jjesse> one just said "that was a big squirt"
[01:43] <brousch> took 4 seconds to be ready to serve compared to 2 minutes
[01:48] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, flash is great for that small kind of stuff
[01:49] <Blazeix> let it be known that rick_h_ encourages people to use flash.
[01:59] <snap-l> rick_h_: Sorry, but blame Twitter fr not allowing me to use my old account
[02:18] <jjesse> apparently im supposed to thank craig for his awesome editing
[02:20] <snap-l> jjesse: You're welcome. :)
[03:08] <snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/zWMXc.jpg
[03:43] <rick_h_> Blazeix: not sure on the replacement
[03:43] <rick_h_> I know the definition is "tags separated with spaces"
[03:43] <rick_h_> so yea, it breaks up spaces right now
[03:44] <rick_h_> I've not looked at catching "some tag" and such yet
[03:52] <Blazeix> ok. for now the google bookmark importer replaces spaces with hyphens, just to match the end result of the delicious importer.
[03:53] <rick_h_> yea, caught that. It different since delicious puts all the tags into a tag="this tag list"
[03:53] <rick_h_> so I can't tell they're separate, but google bookmarks does the repitition stuff you can catch
[03:53] <rick_h_> works for me for now though
[03:54] <rick_h_> tests pass :)
[03:55] <Blazeix> delicious comma-separates them, i think
[03:56] <Blazeix> right, ship it!
[11:29] <tjagoda> Ubuntu server question
[11:29] <tjagoda> I want to chart system resource usage over time
[11:29] <tjagoda> I would assume there is already a package for this?
[11:47] <rick_h_> tjagoda: yea, you're looking at something like cacti http://www.cacti.net/ or munin
[11:48] <tjagoda> nm, I just added a crontab to output the uptime command into a logfile
[11:51] <tjagoda> I dont need anything crazy
[11:51] <tjagoda> Just want to see the load over 24 hours or so
[11:56] <brousch> tjagoda: did you find the mythical code-free custom business webapp creator?
[11:58] <tjagoda> You all misunderstood me
[11:58] <tjagoda> I resolved to write it in PERL
[11:58] <tjagoda> I was wondering if there were any frameworks which would make my life easier in not having to code everything from the ground up
[11:59] <brousch> a perl framework?
[11:59] <tjagoda> I resolved to write it in PERL post-looking for frameworks
[12:00] <brousch> why do you hate yourself so much?
[12:00] <tjagoda> Why would anyone not want to code with a chainsaw?
[12:00] <brousch> because its easy to cut off your own leg
[12:01] <brousch> and no one wants to help a chainsaw-wielding madman
[12:02] <tjagoda> My business application will be a temple to Larry Wall
[12:03] <tjagoda> I wonder how I can figure out disk throughput on ubuntu server
[12:03]  * tjagoda googles more
[12:07] <rick_h_> so I've got some Pycon t-shirts, stickers, and IDE discount codes for people at the next CHC
[12:07] <rick_h_> don't let me forget
[12:09] <widox> morning
[12:09] <tjagoda> hola
[12:09] <brousch> ide discounts?
[12:11] <brousch> rick_h_: you mean like pycharm?
[12:14] <rick_h_> I've got wingide and komodo
[12:14] <rick_h_> I don't think I grabbed the pycharm one
[12:15] <rick_h_> they were there with discounts, but don't think it was in the goody bag
[12:15] <brousch> i use komodo's free version often
[12:16] <brousch> the paid version adds debugging, woohoo
[12:16] <rick_h_> $50 off komodo software thorgh 3/31
[12:16] <rick_h_> and 50% off wingide professional
[12:16] <brousch> never tried that one
[12:16] <rick_h_> it's one of the best for python
[12:16] <rick_h_> much better than komodo
[12:16] <rick_h_> imo
[12:16] <brousch> komodo is nice for webapps because it understands css and html
[12:17] <brousch> i think it even does django templates now
[12:18] <brousch> did you feel dirty picking up those discounts?
[12:18] <brousch> looks like wing does django templates too
[12:19] <rick_h_> no, I'm not using them
[12:19] <rick_h_> but figured give-aways with the group is good stuff
[12:41] <snap-l> g'mornin'
[12:41] <rick_h_> party
[12:43] <snap-l> rick_h_: You get home OK last night?
[12:43] <rick_h_> yea
[12:44] <rick_h_> just made the waiting list for the next flight 2hrs later
[12:44] <snap-l> Coolness
[12:45] <snap-l> That was my biggest fear whenI was flying.
[12:45] <rick_h_> yea, it was a big newbie mistake
[12:45] <snap-l> Well, second biggest. First biggest was being detained by TSA for having more than 3oz of fluid
[12:45] <rick_h_> for some reason I had the time on the ticket as boarding time, and they moved the gate on me, etc
[12:45] <snap-l> ugh
[12:46] <snap-l> Banshee is going to have DVD support?
[12:47] <snap-l> They're working hard to be Windows Media Center, aren't they?
[13:15] <brousch> i'm watching the IDE shootout panel from pycon 2011. pycharm looks really nice
[13:15] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, it's the new kid on the block and supposedly is nice and updating fast
[13:16] <brousch> i was supposed to try it in feb and never got to it
[13:17] <brousch> also, it's frickin awesome that thse videos are up already
[13:17] <rick_h_> yea, they had them up in the middle of the conference
[13:17] <rick_h_> by day 2, day one videos were going up, just crazy
[13:18] <brousch> i found 5 i need to watch
[13:18] <brousch> was it the same group of video people as at pyohio?
[13:18] <rick_h_> you should find more than that
[13:18] <rick_h_> yea, same group
[13:18] <rick_h_> PSF pays them I think
[13:22] <brousch> damn, wing looks good too. maybe there's something to non-free ides
[13:23] <rick_h_> I was a big fan of wing
[13:23] <rick_h_> I just got cranky because I did php by day
[13:23] <rick_h_> python by night
[13:23] <rick_h_> and was using Zend studio for php, wing for python and tired of two editors
[13:24] <brousch> heh, emacs is in the shootout, but no vim
[13:24] <rick_h_> yea, I was in another talk :(
[13:24] <rick_h_> or else I would have represented
[13:25] <brousch> heh
[13:25] <rick_h_> first conference in a while I didn't do an vim openspace
[13:25] <brousch> so were you demoing awesome in the hall?
[13:25] <rick_h_> heh no, but ran into a few fellow users
[13:25] <brousch> the qtile guy mentioned seeing someone demoing awesome in the hall and so decided to do his lightening talk
[13:26] <rick_h_> heh, wasn't me
[13:29] <brousch> emacs guy is running ubuntu on mbp
[13:31] <brousch> you would have blown them all away
[13:53] <jrwren> tjagoda: i didn't know you were looking for perl frameworks. I'll look up the name of the one that I would use.
[13:54] <jrwren> tjagoda: your question was "what language would ya'll use..." wasn't it?
[13:55] <tjagoda> I originally asked for a good framework in general, afterwards deciding that I wanted to use a chainsaw (read: perl)
[13:59] <jrwren> oh, chainsaw. cool.
[13:59] <rick_h_> python, stdlib ftw
[14:03] <rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/library/index.html#library-index
[14:22] <jrwren> stdlib?
[14:22] <jrwren> what specifically?
[14:23] <rick_h_> just if you're trying to do system stuff there's a ton of tools that's OS specific/etc
[14:23] <rick_h_> and it's not extra packages
[14:23] <jrwren> oh yeah, definitely.
[14:23] <rick_h_> so for a framework, fewer extra deps ftw
[14:23] <jrwren> perl has the same great system stuff
[14:24] <snap-l> Perl is quite rich when it comes to built-in foo
[14:24] <rick_h_> counting cpan as 'built in'?
[14:24] <snap-l> No, not counting cpan
[14:24] <jrwren> although last time I used perl, sets were external had to get from cpan, where python sets are NICE
[14:24] <rick_h_> gotcha, k
[14:25] <snap-l> jrwren: Python has had the benefit of a more visible and active development process in the past few years
[14:25] <snap-l> and it looks like more stuff is getting backported from 3 to 2
[14:25] <jrwren> s/few years/decade/
[14:25] <snap-l> jrwren: now now...
[14:25] <jrwren> seriously.
[14:25] <snap-l> I'm sure 5.14 is just lovely. ;)
[14:26] <jrwren> there is a 5.14?
[14:26] <snap-l> iirc, there is
[14:26] <jrwren> wait.
[14:26] <jrwren> there is a 5.12 ?
[14:26] <snap-l> and a 5.10, 5.8
[14:26] <jrwren> yes, those I've used.
[14:26] <jrwren> i've not used 5.12 or 5.14
[14:26] <jrwren> perl -V on mavrick says 5.10 :)
[14:27] <snap-l> Yeah, not many folks have adopted 5.12
[14:27] <snap-l> http://perldoc.perl.org/perldelta.html
[14:27] <snap-l> http://www.effectiveperlprogramming.com/blog/531
[14:28] <snap-l> I mean, it's not as sexy as the releast of Python that included sets, and other from __future__ import goodness...
[14:28] <snap-l> but there's still a pulse.
[14:28] <snap-l> apparently.
[14:28] <snap-l> hell, I'm sure someone was waiting for Carp to get an upgrade.
[14:29] <snap-l> *cough*
[14:29] <rick_h_> you can upgrade fish?
[14:30] <snap-l> I can slap you with one.
[14:30] <rick_h_> :)
[14:31] <snap-l> I managed to pick up a booklinght on steroids last night from Staples for 11.50
[14:32] <snap-l> It's a desk lamp with at least 16 LEDs in it
[14:32] <snap-l> 6x6, so 36 (hadn't looked under there until now. :) )
[14:33] <jrwren> oooh.. Carp...
[14:33] <snap-l> Nice and cool as well, though the directions tell you not to put it next to anything flammable.
[14:33] <jrwren> i only remember the name and I can't remember wht Carp actually is.
[14:34] <snap-l> error handling
[14:34] <_stink_> snap-l: "put it next to" or "point it at"?
[14:34] <snap-l> _stink_: keep away from materials that burn
[14:36] <_stink_> i was hoping it was a firebeam.
[14:37] <rick_h_> anyone want to do me a favor a deface a site?
[14:37] <rick_h_> I'll give you the keys
[14:37] <snap-l> only if I have indemnity
[14:37] <rick_h_> depressing that I'm sitting here doing horrible security things because I'm told to "the client wants it to be easier"
[14:37] <rick_h_> tor?
[14:37] <snap-l> too risky
[14:37] <rick_h_> crap
[14:38] <snap-l> Could post it to full disclosure
[14:38] <brousch> this is why wikileaks was created
[14:38] <rick_h_> heh
[14:38] <snap-l> I'm sure someone would bork it for you
[14:38] <rick_h_> heh, no I don't want anonymous involved. Just want one small lesson.
[14:38]  * rick_h_ hangs head in shame
[14:39] <snap-l> What are they having you do?
[14:40]  * rick_h_ is resetting passwords from random generated 6 char to 4 digits
[14:40] <rick_h_> and the 4 digits are in the usernames
[14:40] <brousch> awesome
[14:40] <rick_h_> yea, these guys are my heros
[14:40] <rick_h_> and it's an app that's on the public internet not limited to an intranet
[14:40] <snap-l> Almost as good as the site that I was maintaining that would send you one of 6 passwords if you forgot it
[14:40] <rick_h_> so I've raised hell for the last several months as the project went along
[14:41] <snap-l> really secure
[14:41] <rick_h_> and I finally got overruled
[14:41] <snap-l> Hey, you just made some rainbow tabler's life that much easier. ;)
[14:41] <Blazeix> I have a client with admin privileges to her public website, and she refused to change her password.
[14:42] <Blazeix> her password is her username.
[14:42] <rick_h_> and not only that, but the digits are matched to store #'s so if you worked/knew anything you could guess
[14:42] <rick_h_> so not even random 4 digits
[14:42] <snap-l> rick_h_: You could send the interested parties the hack that happened to gawker media
[14:43] <rick_h_> my boss saw that, sent him all that info
[14:43] <snap-l> someone gets a bug up their butt about your site, you're going down if you don't have good security.
[14:43] <rick_h_> he was my lat hope
[14:43] <snap-l> and he overruled?
[14:43] <rick_h_> /lat/last
[14:43] <rick_h_> end of the day it sounds like one of those "client pays the bills, give what they want"
[14:44] <snap-l> Could put a little note in the password e-mail: Here is your ridiculously simple and easy to remember password. Hope your admin made backups".
[14:44] <brousch> until they blame you when they get defaced
[14:45] <rick_h_> well, I pushed that we make them sign something that says we're not responsible and will not correct the data if defaced
[14:45] <rick_h_> they've not written/signed this, but discussed it
[14:45] <snap-l> rick_h_: You've done your job then
[14:46] <rick_h_> yea, I know...still depressing as hell to run these commands
[14:46] <snap-l> and hopefully your company will be smart and follow through
[14:47] <brousch> i assume your objections have all been documented
[14:48] <rick_h_> yea, email out the yingyang
[15:15] <rick_h_> heh, asked in my email "have we had them sign the ..." and the reply was "thanks for the work" with no reference to my question
[15:19] <krondor> Woo, first ubuntu server in production at my work; mission accomplished
[15:21] <rick_h_> congrats!
[15:22] <krondor> Thought I'd never see a non suse or redhat box here
[15:32] <jrwren> congrats, I guess.
[15:33] <jrwren> IMO that was always fighting hte wrong battle, but if you are happy about it, then congrats.
[15:34] <brousch> what is the right battle?
[15:34] <jrwren> less windows servers, more linux servers.
[15:35] <brousch> sounds like he's already won that battle
[15:37] <jrwren> could be.
[15:54] <rick_h_> Blazeix: you seen this? http://zeptojs.com/
[15:59] <snap-l> aerogel-weight?
[16:00] <snap-l> Why am I geting the feeling this will be as heavy as jQuery in two years?
[16:00] <rick_h_> meh, two years be doing a different library, or language, or something
[16:01] <snap-l> Well, I love these "minimal" frameworks
[16:01] <snap-l> they start off light and fluffy
[16:01] <rick_h_> well I love the idea
[16:01] <rick_h_> you can drop a ton of code in jquery
[16:01] <snap-l> and then framework puberty hits, and suddenly they can't keep the pounds off
[16:02] <rick_h_> when you target mobile only
[16:02] <rick_h_> especially because it's basically targetting one, mobile webkit
[16:02] <snap-l> and then someone comes along and says "hey, we need a minimal framework"
[16:02] <snap-l> wash, rinse, repeat...
[16:05] <rick_h_> it's how things get better
[16:05] <rick_h_> see "we need a minimal browser..." FF is born
[16:05] <jrwren> jquery is heavy?
[16:05] <rick_h_> for mobile it can be
[16:05] <jrwren> ah, definitely.
[16:06] <jrwren> in 2 yrs jquery won't be heavy for mobile.
[16:06] <jrwren> mobile JS will be fast as hell
[16:06] <rick_h_> that's this thing, keep the API, drop all the extra browser stuff
[16:06] <rick_h_> yea
[16:06] <jrwren> oh!!!
[16:06] <jrwren> zeptojs is jquery compat.  brilliant!
[16:06] <rick_h_> exactly
[16:06] <jrwren> that is brilliant.
[16:06] <rick_h_> in theory you could keep a lot of your code using jquery for the live site and move to movile
[16:06] <jrwren> especially for really shitty mobile like WP7 and blackberry
[16:06] <rick_h_> so maybe keep the events, control code
[16:07] <rick_h_> but replace the ui interaction bit with mobile specific
[16:07] <snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, this does look cool. :)
[16:09] <rick_h_> ouch, my bookmarks file 300k
[16:09] <rick_h_> lmorchard's 4.8mb
[16:09] <rick_h_> this is going to be fun
[16:10] <rick_h_> time to kill sqlite
[16:12] <rick_h_> 1:20s, not as bad as I thought it would be
[16:13] <rick_h_> damn, 7.3k tags, 16.7k bookmarks
[16:45] <snap-l> Oh brilliant, A/L blocks one.ubuntu.com
[16:45] <snap-l> _and_ dropbox.com
[16:46] <brousch> they found you out
[16:46] <snap-l>  thank God they don't block port.usb
[16:51] <brousch> yet
[16:54] <snap-l> and when they do, I'll stop using this piece of shit Windows machine for anything other than e-mail
[16:54] <snap-l> and Microsoft Communicator
[17:23] <snap-l> Man, Windows is slow.
[17:34] <tjagoda> XP?
[17:36] <snap-l> ayep
[18:08] <jrwren> its likely not windows or even XP, but rather insane corporate group policy and AV
[18:14] <tjagoda> Symantec endpoint eats systems alive
[18:14] <tjagoda> I am amazed, always, by how fast fresh XP installations run before I let people or AV touch them
[18:22] <snap-l> jrwren: ding ding ding
[18:22] <snap-l> mcaffee here
[19:03] <jrwren> i should NOT have had those 2 beers at lunch.
[19:05] <jcastro> http://ignitedetroit.net/
[19:05] <jcastro> snap-l: ^
[19:05] <jcastro> rick_h_: ^
[19:05] <jcastro> greg-g: ^
[19:05] <jcastro> everyone ^
[19:05] <gamerchick02> two beers at lunch?
[19:05] <gamerchick02> sounds like the way to do it! :)
[19:06] <snap-l> When are tickets going up, since the site hasn't been updated
[19:10] <rick_h_> cool
[19:10] <rick_h_> thanks for the reminder jcastro
[19:10] <jrwren> gamerchick02: yeah, and NCAA b-ball.  good time.
[19:10] <gamerchick02> oooh. cool.
[19:11] <gamerchick02> i'm not a fan of basketball, but it's a good reason to have a couple beers at lunch. :)
[19:11] <jcastro> snap-l: they are up, it's nonobvious, click on the box on the right
[19:12] <jcastro> wrt. ignitedetroit register because they sell out fast, you can always give them to someone else if you can't make it
[19:12] <rick_h_> jcastro: wife friendly you htink?
[19:13] <jcastro> rick_h_: very much so
[19:13] <jcastro> jill loved it
[19:13] <jcastro> all the subjects are interesting, it's not tech heavy
[19:13] <jcastro> like there was one on "how to buy a car without getting ripped off", etc.
[19:13] <jcastro> they're all very interesting
[19:13] <rick_h_> k, registered
[19:13] <rick_h_> thanks
[19:18] <greg-g> wtf, the onclick() isn't working when I click register!
[19:19] <greg-g> ok, chromium works, but not Fx4? oh well, registered!
[19:20] <snap-l> just registered.
[19:20] <jrwren> Fx4?  JavaFX?
[19:20] <snap-l> Firefox 4
[19:20] <jrwren> Flex4 ?
[19:20] <jrwren> isn't that FF4 /
[19:20] <snap-l> Nobody uses Java
[19:20] <greg-g> it is the official short name for Firefox
[19:20] <jrwren> rofl. I wish noone used java.
[19:20] <snap-l> meant JavaFX
[19:20] <jrwren> it is? I've always seen Fx as the abrev for Flex
[19:21] <snap-l> jrwren: There is a world outside of Miscrosoft / Adobe. ;)
[19:21] <greg-g> https://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/releases/1.5.html#FAQ
[19:21] <snap-l> You should step outside and smell the fresh air sometime. ;)
[19:21] <jrwren> no there isn't.
[19:21] <snap-l> Well, I hope the tea is good, number 6
[19:22] <jrwren> http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/
[19:23] <snap-l> Flex's new abbreviation is FuckYourselfInTheNex
[19:23] <snap-l> 4
[19:23] <jrwren> *gasp* how offensive
[19:23] <snap-l> Mission Accomplished
[19:24] <jrwren> wasn't the linux community in love with Air for about a month when tweetdeck first shipped?
[19:24] <snap-l> Yeah, and then they realized the only thing Air was good for was twitter apps
[19:25] <snap-l> and someone in the group-think-tank decided that Adobe should die in a fire.
[19:33] <jcastro> jrwren: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hbdpomandigafcibbmofojjchbcdagbl
[19:33] <jcastro> jrwren: though there's a weburl somewhere
[19:39] <jrwren> snap-l: such a fickle user base.
[19:39] <jrwren> so now people run tweetdeck in chrome instead of air?
[19:40] <jrwren> oh, there is tweetdeck chrome and tweetdeck desktop.
[19:44] <jcastro> the chrome thing is just their webapp packaged for chrome
[19:44]  * jcastro personally uses seesmic.com/web
[19:46]  * snap-l uses gwibber / vim
[19:46] <snap-l> And yes, userbases are fickle
[19:46] <snap-l> I think Air's biggest problem was that people treated it like a desktop app, and it wsan't.
[19:47] <snap-l> Man, i do not like SOAp
[19:47] <_stink_> me neither.
[19:48] <_stink_> snap-l: you writing a client or something?
[19:49] <snap-l> trying to write one in Python with suds
[19:49] <snap-l> just to test some foo for work
[19:49] <_stink_> snap-l: ah, cool.  i found suds a few weeks ago.  seems ok.
[19:49] <snap-l> and I'm not understanding how to get what I'm seeing in our developer guide into suds
[19:50] <_stink_> i confess i just fed suds a WSDL file and that was that.
[19:50] <snap-l> yeah, that's what I'm attempting as well
[19:51] <snap-l> though there's a login piece (not HTTPAuth, afaict) that I need to pass along
[19:52] <snap-l> Thank God for stack overflow. ;)
[19:52] <_stink_> hehe
[19:53] <snap-l> Ah, it's a separate piece for wsse
[19:53] <snap-l> I should have asked the GOOG a while ago
[19:55] <jrwren> SOAP sucks unless you are using great tools along with it.
[19:58] <snap-l> jrwren: SOAP looks like it's best used with a program that just writes the damn code for you
[20:08] <krondor> I once tried to write a bad program against the soap apis for novell groupwise, I ende
[20:08] <krondor> Sorry, ended up just using com
[20:09] <Milyardo> What can SOAP do that XMLRPC can't?
[20:09] <krondor> I cringe just looking at that sentencd
[20:16] <krondor> Soap supports different encodings and data types it seems, I think it has support for authentication methods too
[20:16] <_stink_> yeah, it does.
[20:19] <Milyardo> If my understaning of SOAP and XMLRPC is correct, that they are tools to serialize structured information, then authentication sounds like it doesn't really belong
[20:19] <Milyardo> *understnaing of the purpose of XMLRPC and SOAP
[20:19] <Milyardo> *understanding ->
[20:22] <krondor> I think soap needed the authentication as services tried to rely on xml-rpc to manipulate an API (like in the case of groupwise) from xml input
[20:23] <krondor> Not just structure the information, but act on it
[20:26] <krondor> Did that make sense? IANA programmer
[20:29] <Milyardo> Not really an arguement for "why authentication shouldn't be handled more approiately elsewhere", more of a "why applications that XMLRPC need authentication"
[20:30] <Milyardo> The problem is that the transport for XMLRPC(HTTP) is stateless
[20:31] <Milyardo> You'd be better off implementing authentication in HTTP than in your document
[20:33] <krondor> Yeah I was just going off where I've seen it used (shudder group wise)  not if it was the right thing to do
[20:41]  * krondor quitting time
[23:28] <brousch> man, that's nice. pycharm has google app engine runs and uploads built-in