[00:41] <Daekdroom> Hello. I'm facing a kernel hang in ubuntu natty and given I'm using xorg-edgers, I'm not sure how to report it. Should I tag it or something
[02:24] <ddecator> RedSingularity and I are looking at bug 734026 which deals with a user being confused about updates vs. upgrades, and i've heard a lot of people mention they were confused about this in #ubuntu-beginners (that, and upgrade vs. dist-upgrade), so it seems like there should be a previous report for this, but nothing is turning up
[02:24] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 734026 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Confusing terminology when performing update/upgrade. (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/734026
[02:24] <ddecator> has anyone seen a report for this before?
[02:31] <yofel> no, can't remember another report right now, but I do remember talking about that with people already. IMHO it would make sense to use update for package upgrades in the GUI since apt-get 'update' is usually referred to as 'refresh'-ing the package cache in GUI apps (or at least in the ones I use)
[02:37] <ddecator> yofel: hm, in your opinion would Low or Wishlist be more appropriate? i feel like Low might fit because it's an issue that is making the app more confusing and difficult to use, but idk if wording issues are considered Wishlist. haven't run into something like this before, haha
[02:37] <yofel> good question...
[02:38] <ddecator> and i'm not sure if Opinion might be good here. i haven't used Opinion before, and i'm not sure how useful it really is
[02:39] <yofel> er no, Opinion is just an alias for Invalid
[02:39] <ddecator> ah, alright
[02:39] <psusi> I thought Opinion differed slightly from Invalid somewhere?
[02:39] <yofel> it's supposed to be used if the maintainers don't want to fix it but the users don't agree
[02:40] <ddecator> ha, just to keep the backlash to a minimum
[02:40] <yofel> or at least don't want to fix it _now_
[02:40] <yofel> psusi: in the meaning yes, in the actual effect on the bug list, no
[02:40] <ddecator> well i'm leaning towards Low since it could be considered a usability issue
[02:40] <yofel> since opinion bugs are hidden by default
[02:40] <psusi> not quite... that's wontfix.. opinion is slightly different... it is so maintainers can ignore them when looking for bugs that need fixed, but it is still open
[02:41] <psusi> yofel, hidden by default, WHERE?  depends on the search you are doing
[02:41] <yofel> the *default* search on launchpad
[02:44] <yofel> ddecator: I'll agree with Low in this case, it is an issue with the existing application features, not a request to add something
[02:45] <ddecator> yofel: good deal, just wanted a second opinion since i was on the line. thanks :)
[02:49] <psusi> yofel, hrm.. you're right... that seems to be a defect
[02:49] <psusi> a generic search by text for a bug should pick up Opinion
[02:50] <psusi> just not listing open bugs in a specific package
[06:43] <jreid9001> I have a few comments which a friend suggested I should make a bug for, but I can't get the web based thing to work.
[06:45] <jreid9001> the point was that as someone relatively new to Linux, the user experience assumes a lot, when I see a folder called root and I want to see what is in it, I click on it and I get told I can not open it without any explanation or instructions on how to - I understand how sudo works and everything, but it just gives a flat error instead of asking me for a password as I might have expected.
[06:46] <jreid9001> There is no explanation anywhere as to how to get into these folders, when all I wanted to do was take a look to try and understand how things work on Linux.
[06:49] <jreid9001> the other thing I mentioned was that the file structure is fairly confusing, even just finding a folder where I'm supposed to save things in, and I think it could do with some kind of explanation in the help. I really like the  idea of linux even if I wouldn't make it my main OS, but it assumes the user knows things without any real explanation attempt, and I'm trying to suggest these
[06:49] <jreid9001> since a friend who I was discussing this with suggested I should and I think that resolving it would be a big usability improvement
[06:50] <yofel> hm... most system folders are accessible (read only) by default, unless they have very restrictive access permissions for various reasons
[06:50] <yofel> as for the filesystem structure, we have a page for that
[06:50] <jreid9001> (also, it needs a better way to give feedback, since I have openID but I couldn't make it work on the launchpad site.)
[06:50] <yofel> !fhs
[06:50] <ubot4`> An explanation of how files and directories are organized on Ubuntu, and how they can be manipulated, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview  see also: man hier
[06:51] <yofel> I don't know much about openID I fear, #launchpad might be of more help
[06:52] <jreid9001> hmm, the folder I was trying to look into, just out of interest, didn't let me read it, the point is that even though I have the root password, I maybe expectedthe file browser to prompt me for it, but not to flat out deny access
[06:52] <yofel> jreid9001: ah yeah, the /root folder is the home folder of the system administrator, which is commonly only accessible only be root, nautilus could handle that better
[06:53] <yofel> hm, dolphin is as unhelpful as nautilus in this case :S
[06:53] <jreid9001> and thanks for the file system page, I'll give that a read, but my poin was that it could be in the OS itself, possibly in a short intro thing which you can choose to read when you've first installed it
[06:54] <yofel> I'm not sure where that suggestion should go, possibly brainstorm (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/) - hand out for  a while, maybe the others have better ideas
[06:54] <yofel> s/hand/hang/
[06:55] <duanedesign> jreid9001: the root user is disabled by default in Ubuntu
[06:56] <jreid9001> thanks. I like the idea behind it, I just find it a bit intimidating even as someone with a little experience with linux, I guess I'm not used to being denied access to anything on my own PC.
[06:56] <jreid9001> it just could be a bit clearer on why, and how to do things if I do want to.
[06:56] <duanedesign> yes
[06:56] <duanedesign> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
[06:56] <duanedesign> that is a good link
[06:56] <duanedesign> maybe an error message summing up that page
[15:12] <RedSingularity> Anyone know what package "do-release-upgrade" is a part of?
[15:16] <RedSingularity> Got it, its update-manager-core :)
[15:17] <Ampelbein> RedSingularity: you can use 'dpkg -S /path/to/file' to find out what package installed a certain file
[15:19] <RedSingularity> Ampelbein:  Cool.  That worked too.  Thanks!
[16:44] <psusi> when nominating an rc bug for a natty task, is there anything else you need to do like subscribe some team?
[16:46] <Ampelbein> psusi: normally not, just nominate and set importance to high or critical (depending on impact)
[16:47] <psusi> Ampelbein, does it need to be high or critical?  bug #545911 doesn't seem to rise to that level since it only affects a small number of people and isn't catastrophic
[16:47] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 545911 in parted (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "GParted crashes with Assertion (head_size <= 63) (affects: 33) (dups: 9) (heat: 130)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/545911
[16:49] <Ampelbein> psusi: hmm, let's see if I can find the document
[16:49] <Ampelbein> !RC
[16:49] <ubot4`> Factoid 'RC' not found
[16:50] <Ampelbein> psusi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting
[17:21] <njin> Hello to all, can someone look at bug 733312
[17:21] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 733312 in ubuntu "Natty: missing notification area (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733312
[17:25] <kklimonda> njin: what to look for?
[17:26] <njin> kklimonda: what the are talking about, I cannot understand
[17:28] <kklimonda> this bug is a duplicate of bug 685270
[17:28] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 685270 in unity "Menubar icons don't show in 11.04 Alpha 1 / systray not anymore supported (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685270
[17:28] <kklimonda> you can mark it as such
[17:28] <njin> kklimonda: many thanks
[18:05]  * penguin42 wish launchpad sent most of the data for your search to the browser and then used JS in the browser to let you scroll and search
[18:56] <BUGabundo> hey! I'm back!!  :D
[19:20] <xteejx> Evening all
[19:21] <xteejx> bdmurray: Would it be possible to add the canned "We are closing bug report"...no response - response to the LPGM scripts
[19:22] <xteejx> Also, quick question:
[19:22] <xteejx> Are we still submitting upstreams ourselves or encouraging the reporters to do this?
[19:24] <yofel> differs, but usually I think we're still upstreaming bugs ourselves. Matts mail to the BC maling list was interesting on that topic https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/msg03042.html
[19:27] <xteejx> Hmm, just a thought...what about if I upstream one and then CC the OR in on the upstream BTS?
[19:29] <xteejx> yofel: Btw, thanks for the link
[19:29] <duanedesign> evening xteejx
[19:29] <yofel> that would probably be the best case, but won't work with bug trackers that require the CCd person to have an account (meaning most trackers)
[19:30] <xteejx> duanedesign: Good evening/Guten Abend/Buenos Nachos lol
[19:30] <xteejx> yofel: Damn....worth a thought though
[19:30] <xteejx> How has LP been recently with pulling in the comments from upstream BTs?
[19:30] <yofel> xteejx: your point was made in the debian discussion, it's worth reading
[19:30] <xteejx> I'll have a proper look at it a bit later, have bookmarked it :)
[19:31] <njin> hello, can someone look at bug 736153
[19:31] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 736153 in ubuntu "Unicode variation selectors not supported (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736153
[19:31]  * yofel remembers looking at that bug once, and is absolutely clueless :S
[19:32] <xteejx> njin: Is there a LoCo team that is more adept at dealing with these kinds of languages?
[19:32] <yofel> I doubt you'll find one for 'ancient mongolian' ^^
[19:33] <njin> brainstorm?
[19:33] <xteejx> Heh, maybe not
[19:33] <xteejx> Nah, not brainstorm, its a bug
[19:33] <Rcart> Please someone would mark this bug 735358 as Wishlist ?
[19:33] <yofel> I guess our input system would be one candidate
[19:33] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 735358 in ubuntu-tweak "Compiz settings manager crashes in ubuntu-tweak (dup-of: 720960)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735358
[19:33] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 720960 in ubuntu-tweak "(On using Compiz) Failed on initialization: launcher_autohide error (affects: 35) (dups: 23) (heat: 236)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720960
[19:34] <Rcart> er
[19:34] <yofel> Rcart: not a bug in ubuntu
[19:34] <Rcart> bug 738358
[19:34] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 738358 in zim (Ubuntu) "Sync zim 0.50-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main) (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738358
[19:34] <xteejx> njin: Does that language use scim or anything like that?
[19:34] <xteejx> It could be that
[19:34] <yofel> Rcart: a dev already did that just now
[19:35] <yofel> Rcart: also, we usually don't touch developer process bugs (as mentioned in the triaging instructions)
[19:37] <Rcart> yofel: Ok. Thanks
[19:37] <xteejx> Normally I woulod try and get input from a Loco team, but since (probably) everyone that speaks Ancient Mongolian died well over 1000 years ago, I doubt they will be much help
[19:37]  * Rcart will print How to triage x'D
[19:37] <xteejx> Rcart: No need, just bookmark it and refer back to it when needed
[19:37] <yofel> Rcart: it's that one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Developer%20Process%20Bugs
[19:37] <njin> we have one member in loco team mongolian
[19:38] <xteejx> njin: Is it the same person?
[19:39] <njin> xteejx: no
[19:39] <njin> well i can ask at the loco owner then, maybe....
[19:40] <xteejx> njin: I would probably nudge them. A pictographical language like that (same with Egyptian) will cause problems in any OS with rendering let alone text entry
[19:40] <xteejx> I would :)
[19:40] <xteejx> It's good to be back, and on the ball :D
[19:40] <njin> ;9
[19:41] <xteejx> <<unknown emoticon entered>>
[19:41] <njin> typo
[19:41] <xteejx> :P
[19:42] <njin> ;-)
[19:42] <xteejx> :O
[19:42] <njin> =:-|
[19:43] <Rcart> Oh, great. I now see why this bugs (wishlist) should be reviewed by packagers and devs. The bug I said FTBFS :/
[19:43] <xteejx> hehe Think Ibest stop before ubotu kills me
[19:43] <xteejx> Rcart: FTBFS bugs should be reviewed, yes. #ubuntu-motu can help with all that stuff
[19:45] <yofel> xteejx: it was a (new rejected) sync request
[19:45] <yofel> s/new/now/
[19:45] <Rcart> xteejx: Sure (:
[19:45] <xteejx> Ahh right, fair enough
[19:45] <yofel> but yeah, #ubuntu-motu would be responsible here
[19:53] <yofel> do we have a meta-bug for no space left on / bugs? bug 710124
[19:53] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 710124 in ubuntu "GUI doesnt start up without free space on main HD (affects: 1) (heat: 83)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710124
[19:53] <xteejx> yes we do somewhere yofel
[19:54] <xteejx> dunno the bug # though
[20:25] <penguin42> hmm what happens to bugs affecting google picasa where it used to work in one version of ubuntu but has gained an apparently minor bug
[20:29] <xteejx> penguin42: Upstream it I suppose
[20:30] <xteejx> and add tag regression-release
[20:35] <penguin42> well I haven't reported it yet - it's a warning when it starts saying that it can't find 32bit ssl and it would be a good idea to install it; it IS installed and I think it is using it, so it's just the warning - I'm not 100% sure what changed