=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
=== _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero
bruceehi all. I have a query about natty. Is this the right place06:37
RAOFThat depends on the type of question.  This is a channel for the development of Natty, so if your question has to do with that, yes :)06:39
bruceewell, I installed it (alpha3) on an older lenovo z61m laptop and I06:40
bruceeI'm having some difficulty with the network. does that qualify :) ?06:40
RAOFMAybe; it perhaps sounds more like a bug report, though. :)06:41
bruceeprobably. Or just me being braindead. So you recommend launchpad?06:42
RAOFOr #ubuntu+1 for support.06:42
bruceegreat idea - I'll head there !06:42
slangasekogasawara: gcc-4.5 4.5.2-6ubuntu5 uploaded; TTBOMK this is the last upload needed before beta06:47
pitticjwatson, slangasek: I uploaded a new scour with dropping rsvg, and reverted cdbs; that should do07:07
pittiGood morning07:08
slangasekpitti: morning!  Yes, saw your mail over the weekend, thanks for taking care of this07:08
pittisorry for the mess07:08
slangasekn/p, I'm glad you found a better solution than my "kick it out of cdbs" one :)07:08
cdbsout of me?07:08
nigelbThis is precisely why you need a new nick :P07:09
slangasekcdbs: are you the personification of a package helper? :)07:09
cdbsslangasek: yes, but I prefer debhelper over myself07:09
nigelbthe irony.07:09
cdbsno, the advantage of this nick is that whenever someone mentions 'cdbs' I get pinged07:10
nigelbdeserves a bash.org07:10
cdbsgiving me the chance to kick into the conversation and recommend others to use dh07:10
cdbsokay, enough offtopic conversation, and slangasek just /ctcp versioned me :{07:11
slangasekcdbs: /hilight cdbs would do for that ;)07:11
Chipzzcdbs: that's a... weird attitude :)07:14
Chipzzcdbs: that or a very strong dislike of cdbs ;P07:14
didrocksgood morning07:51
=== hunger_ is now known as hunger
dholbachgood morning08:16
* slangasek waves08:16
jamespageslangasek: good morning08:24
jamespageslangasek: re bug 737603 - I can either provide you with details on how to reproduce in Jenkins (its fairly easy)08:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 737603 in openjdk-6 (Ubuntu) "JNI unable to find libpam.so" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73760308:24
jamespageor happy to test a deb now if you want me to.08:25
slangasekjamespage: I don't have any .debs built in a useful place, but I guess you can rebuild openjdk-6 from source more quickly than I could get you one (given that it's 1:30am here)08:25
jamespageslangasek: OK - I'll do a local rebuild and try out the patch; I'll also append test case details into the bug.08:26
slangasekjamespage: sounds good :)08:26
jamespagethanks for looking at this08:26
slangasekno prob08:27
slangasekpitti: so, are you happy for me to upload eglibc with this change?08:30
pittislangasek: yes, except I'd like to understand why it's only a transitional pacakge08:31
slangasekpitti: ah, replied in the merge log, darn slow email :)08:31
slangasekpitti: "transitional" in the sense that it exists only to enforce fully upgrading libc6 before upgrading anything else; once everything's upgraded (after next LTS), we can drop it08:32
pittislangasek: ah, thanks08:32
pittislangasek: updated MP again08:32
slangasekjust noticed a (non-linux-specific) bug there, which I'll fix up before uploading08:34
slangasekpitti: yay, eglibc uploaded, thanks for the review08:45
slangasekthat just leaves glib2.0 for me to break08:46
slangaseker, I mean, convert ;)08:46
dholbachcan anyone review my lp:ubuntu-packaging-guide branches please?09:10
seb128hey, does anybody know if soyuz support.tar.xz tarballs?09:36
mr_pouitseb128: Bug #619152 (there's a branch but it doesn't seem merged yet)09:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 619152 in Launchpad itself "Add data.tar.xz support" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61915209:38
mr_pouitoops, no09:38
mr_pouitI misread, sorry09:38
cjwatsonpitti: did you notice the livefs build errors which seem to be caused by language-pack-kde-es and language-pack-kde-oc having file overlaps with the non-KDE versions?10:04
pitticjwatson: uh, no, I didn't10:05
pitticjwatson: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/natty/kubuntu/latest/livecd-20110321-i386.out seems fine?10:05
cjwatsontry kubuntu-mobile10:09
pitticjwatson: ah, thanks; will check that10:10
cjwatson(more inclusive)10:11
cjwatsonseb128,mr_pouit: I guess I should work on the infrastructure needed for that10:11
seb128cjwatson, so soyuz doesn't handle it yet?10:12
seb128cjwatson, GNOME is thinking to switch to .tar.xz tarballs10:12
seb128cjwatson, that's why I was asking10:12
cjwatsonit doesn't - https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/dpkg-xz-support-619152/+merge/32868 explains the situation10:13
ubottuUbuntu bug 32868 in espresso (Ubuntu) "Autopartition doesn't warn" [Medium,Fix released]10:13
cjwatsonoh shut up ubottu10:13
cjwatsonhuh, I apparently have most of the work done locally - I must have got sidetracked10:14
seb128cjwatson, thanks10:14
seb128cjwatson, does that cover all orig.tar.xz use?10:15
cjwatsonoh, wait, you said orig, my branch was just for data10:16
cjwatsonlet me check status of that10:16
* cjwatson misread in the same way as mr_pouit10:17
=== doko_ is now known as doko
seb128cjwatson, sorry for not being clear ;-)10:18
cjwatsondpkg-dev/lucid supported orig.tar.xz, at least10:19
cjwatsonI think it's just a matter of extending a few regexes and enumerations and the like in LP10:19
seb128cjwatson, is there any way we can make sure it's on the launchpad team list to get working for next cycle?10:21
cjwatsonI can probably just submit a branch for it10:21
seb128cjwatson, no hurry, I'm just trying to make sure we don't get blocked at some point because the switch happen for GNOME and in Debian and our bits are not in place for it10:22
seb128but that's not before some months, they are still discussing it10:22
cjwatsonit falls in the category of rather-do-it-now-than-in-a-hurry-later for me10:23
=== ogra is now known as Guest34611
cjwatsonseb128: note that Debian doesn't support it yet either10:50
=== Guest34611 is now known as ogra_
seb128cjwatson, seems pochu is on it,he said he talked to the debian ftp-masters and the topic is on the agenda for their next meeting10:52
cjwatsonthat's useful to know, thanks.  there's no bug report.10:53
seb128cjwatson, in fact pochu mentioned it on debian-project@l.d.o in reply to the reminder email sent there10:56
seb128oh, buxy mentioned it first it seems10:57
seb128well anyway it's being discussed there10:57
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
emgentmdz ping11:27
dholbachbdrung, pushed harvest tool to ubuntu-dev-tools again11:39
dholbachbdrung, let me know if it'S alright this time11:39
dholbachseb128, ^11:40
seb128dholbach, thanks11:40
bdrungdholbach: grep hugdaylist harvest11:43
* dholbach now takes the dog for a walk - see you in a bit11:45
bdrungdholbach: pylint found some unused variables11:45
hallynjdstrand: kees: hey, debian has security updates for libcgroup and libvirt-bin.  Has someone already started on merging those?  (I don't care toduplicate work)11:46
RiddellTheMuso: how do I get orca to read me something?11:53
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=== jam1 is now known as jam
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=== chuck_ is now known as zul
jdstrandhallyn: I am preparing libvirt-bin. I don't think anyone is working on libcgroup atm, though you might ask in #ubuntu-hardened12:36
jdstrandkees: ^12:36
hallynjdstrand: thanks12:39
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=== diwic is now known as diwic_afk
cnd@pilot in13:14
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: feature freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots: cnd, smoser
cjwatsonogra_: hi, could you apply http://paste.ubuntu.com/583309/ to jasper-initramfs, please?  using ubuntu-devel as Maintainer means that upload acknowledgements go to the reviews list; ubuntu-devel-discuss is more conventional13:23
ogra_cjwatson, oops, doing so13:24
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
pitticjwatson: btw, if the kernel team asks you to copy kernels around, this should help quite a bit: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html#kernelppa13:34
Riddellpitti: is b43-fwcutter still needed on the CDs?13:34
cjwatsonpitti: neat!  thanks13:35
pittiRiddell: not urgently, I think; we don't even offer b43 any more in jockey, wl is the standard driver now13:35
Riddellpitti: so broadcom is all free now?13:35
pitticjwatson: to avoid confusion: the sru-accept.py thing does not include the automatically generated CVE bugs, as they don't get verified by QA13:35
pittiRiddell: no, wl is proprietary13:35
pittiRiddell: there is an experimental broadcom driver in staging, but still too unstable; we don't offer it in jockey yet13:36
Riddellhmm, confusing13:36
hallynthe free broadcom driver doesn't do ad-hoc though still, right?13:41
hallynwhich seems to really imply we should have b43 in jockey...  it's actually half the reason why i'm back on lucid on my netbook13:41
pittiI took it out since it deterioates quickly; I got tons of kernel oopses/crashes with b43, and people kept picking the wrong one13:42
hallynyeah having two is confusing, for sure13:42
hallyni just need someone with spare time to implement ad-hoc in the free one :)13:43
hallyns/implement/fix/ (as the source suggests it thinks it implements it)13:43
cndSpamapS, I'm reviewing bug 53398513:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 533985 in bash-completion (Ubuntu) "Bash completion whitelisting returns no results when it could return some that do not match" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53398513:47
cndoh wait, I thought there was an issue13:48
cndbut I realized I was working on the wrong computer13:48
=== diwic_afk is now known as diwic
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
mterryWhat's the most useful way to report a kernel panic?  I don't see anything in /var/crash, and I don't get an apport prompt14:24
cjwatsonseb128,mr_pouit: https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/tar-xz/+merge/54215, FYI14:28
ubottuUbuntu bug 54215 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "debconf frontend went away (dup-of: 52682)" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:29
ubottuUbuntu bug 52682 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "debconf frontend went away -- kde-ui" [Undecided,Invalid]14:29
seb128cjwatson, thanks14:29
cjwatsonand the data.tar.xz bit is now waiting on sysadmin14:30
seb128mterry, try asking on #ubuntu-kernel I guess14:31
cjwatson(orig.tar.xz doesn't need any sysadmin action)14:31
seb128mterry, you want kerneloops-daemon for oops issues, not sure about panic ones14:31
ari-tczewpitti: are you apport developer?14:45
pittiari-tczew: yes14:45
ari-tczewpitti: look http://paste.ubuntu.com/583335/14:45
pittiari-tczew: I see the problem, hang on14:50
pittiari-tczew: fixed in trunk, thanks14:52
ari-tczewpitti: 7 minutes needed, wow! :)14:52
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=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk]
pittidpm: oh, thanks for pointing to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/StartingTeam stuff, that's useful!15:28
dpmpitti, no worries :) - btw, after we have a locale for a new language in langpack-locales or upstream, are there any other technical steps to enable it and ship a langpack for it? I've meant to ask you for ages, I've just remembered now15:30
pittidpm: yes, one: we need to add it as a supported locale to langpack-o-matic15:30
pittidpm: ah, that could actually do with a bit of automation, hang on15:31
dpmok :)15:31
pittidpm: done; ./update-maps in langpack-o-matic now updates maps/supported-locales as well15:34
pittidpm: we need to do that as we usually run this under lucid, and the local /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED is older than the releases we are building for15:35
dpmpitti, thanks, automation ftw!15:35
pittidpm: so once we have a locale, we run that, and once the LP exports have files for the locale, they'll get shipped15:35
pittidpm: lucid's gdm would need an update as well, but since maverick it doesn't any more either15:36
pittiso I'm not aware of anything else that needs to happen for this15:36
=== mnepton is now known as mneptok
dpmpitti, ok, but what's the gdm stuff? I'm not sure I can follow that. Why does it need to be updated in Lucid and why does it not need to on Maverick?15:37
pittidpm: in lucid, gdm had its own language/locale list15:37
dpmoh, I see15:38
pittidoko: FYI, I talked to the debian gnome folks again, and they are ok with doing the pysupport -> dh_py2 transition for pygobject and friends; we'll ship a compatibility symlink until the reverse dependencies were converted, does that sound okay to you?15:45
=== jj-afk is now known as jjohansen
doko\o/ still starting in natty?15:55
micahgpitti: was the 0317 langpack supposed to fix the file overwrite issue?15:55
pittimicahg: the 0317.1 ones for kde-{oc,es}, yes15:57
micahgok, so I'll wait for the point update15:57
seb128zul, hi, do you have a vcs for samba? Could you review and check the fix bug #668368 in if you have one?16:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 668368 in samba (Ubuntu) "Default [homes] share template uses incorrect %S macro." [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66836816:03
seb128it's a one char change, I don't want to an upload for that ;-)16:04
dokopitti: ^^^16:07
pittidoko: I hope so, I'm working on it right now (it's more complicated than a symlink, though)16:08
zulseb128 sure on a call right now16:09
seb128zul, no hurry, thanks16:09
AnAntHello, I get a UnicodeEncodeError message when I try to login on wiki.ubuntu.com, where should I report that ?16:09
=== herton is now known as herton_lunch
davmor2AnAnt: goto #canonical-isd as a first port of call16:11
debfxkirkland: shouldn't console-setup register /etc/console-setup/vtrgb.vga as an alternative? kubuntu-default-settings could then switch to it if it's in auto mode16:11
AnAntdavmor2: thanks16:12
kirklanddebfx: no, it can't;  otherwise, every time console-setup upgrades it would overwrite the alternative priority that kubuntu-settings sets16:12
kirklanddebfx: ie, it could register it at a lower priority, say 2016:12
kirklanddebfx: but every time it upgrades it would re-register it at 20 again16:13
debfxkirkland: yes, console-setup would register it with a lower priority and k-d-s runs updater-alternatives --set ... in postinst16:14
kirklanddebfx: right, but what happens when console-setup upgrades later?16:16
kirklanddebfx: at least the way i'm calling update-alternatives in console-setup.postinst, it's going to overwrite it16:17
kirklanddebfx: unless i'm misunderstanding you...16:17
debfxkirkland: it's not supposed to overwrite it if it's in manual mode16:19
debfxupdate-alternatives --install is a no-op if the alternative is already installed (with the same priority)16:20
kirklanddebfx: interesting...16:20
kirklanddebfx: can you propose a debdiff to console-setup.postinst, test it, and show me how you recommend we do it?16:20
kirklanddebfx: and newt's postinst too16:20
kirklanddebfx: note that newt takes about 20 seconds to build, and console-setup takes about 20 minutes16:21
debfxkirkland: will do, thanks for the hint :)16:23
debfxthe tricky part is in k-d-s as update-alternatives doesn't have a --only-if-in-auto-mode option16:24
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
kirklanddebfx: sure thing16:27
kirklanddebfx: i do like the idea of having the originals registered as lower-priority alternatives, such that they're more discoverable16:27
kirklanddebfx: i just want to make sure it's done in a way that other optional packages (like the kubuntu themes one) can override and make their alternatives stick and maintain across upgrades16:28
debfxkirkland: aha, just revert the changes from the last newt upload :)16:29
kirklanddebfx: okay, if so, then what's the proper syntax for update-alternatives in the kubuntu settings postinst?16:30
debfxkirkland: the easiest way would be: update-alternatives --set newt-palette /etc/newt/palette.original16:31
kirklanddebfx: ah, okay, cool16:31
jcastrowendar: there appears to be nothing on Wednesday UDS, if you want to try "fun" lightning talks or something clever, that would be the night to do it16:32
debfxbut that overwrite all user choices so guarding that with a check if the alternative is in auto mode would be good16:32
=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
wendarjcastro: could be fun16:32
debfxkirkland: newt doesn't remove the alternatives in postrm16:34
kirklanddebfx: good catch16:34
=== herton_lunch is now known as herton
slangasekkirkland: hi, do you feel like NEWing eglibc today? :)16:59
kirklandslangasek: i can have a look ....16:59
debfxkirkland: we could use something like this in kubuntu-default-settings: http://paste.ubuntu.com/583394/17:02
=== sforshee is now known as sforshee-lunch
kirklandslangasek: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue keeps timing out on me17:09
kirklandslangasek: okay, it landed17:10
kirklandslangasek: oh, a binary deNEW, that's easier :-)17:10
kirklandslangasek: looking now ...17:10
slangasekyep, trivial, just a new package added to the base system ;)17:10
kirklandslangasek: multiarch support :-)  trivial :-)17:11
kirklandslangasek: hmm, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/583405/17:12
kirklandslangasek: there isn't actually anything in that package?17:12
slangasekkirkland: let me grab you a link to the explanation17:12
slangasekkirkland: https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ubuntu/natty/eglibc/multiarch-support/+merge/5413517:13
ubottuUbuntu bug 54135 in libapache2-mod-python (Ubuntu) "when php5 is enabled mod_python cacls md5 wrong" [Undecided,Invalid]17:13
kirklandslangasek: cool, works for me17:13
kirklandslangasek: needs to go to main, i presume?17:14
slangasekkirkland: yeppers17:14
slangasekas Priority: standard, in fact17:14
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
slangaseker, Priority: required even17:14
slangasek(but I can poke that once it's in the archive, if there are any issues)17:14
kirklandslangasek: OK: eglibc, eglibc_2.13-0ubuntu8_armel_translations.tar.gz(main/(unchanged)/(unchanged))17:15
kirklandslangasek: so i missed your priority note17:15
slangasekno problem17:15
kirklandslangasek: so yeah, poke that once it's in17:15
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
slangasekLaney: how are things with ghc6?  Everything good, now that libffi is fixed?17:21
Laneyslangasek: Mostly. I see a perplexing failure that I think is due to a newer binutils; mailed d-haskell@ to ask for insight earlier.17:21
LaneyAt least the libffi fix is good.17:21
* slangasek checks the mail to make sure it's really a binutils bug and not a multiarch bug ;)17:22
Laneyit's in a library, not ghc6 itself (thankfully)17:22
kirklandslangasek: okay, it's taking a few button pushes to get past all the launchpad timeouts for the other arches17:25
kirklandslangasek: okay, done17:26
slangasekkirkland: your pain is appreciated, as this puts us one package upload away from 'sudo apt-get install flashplugin-installer:i386' working in a chroot :)17:26
kirklandslangasek: heh :-)17:26
slangaseknow to upload glib2.017:27
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
cjwatsonslangasek: 'sudo apt-get install libc6:amd64' doesn't seem to work for me, with a 'deb [arch=i386,amd64] ...' line in sources.list; what am I missing?17:34
cjwatsonit just says "E: Unable to locate package libc6:amd64"17:34
slangasekcjwatson: APT::Architectures { "i386"; "amd64"; }; also, dpkg --foreign-architecture amd64 (can set in /etc/dpkg of course); finally, I think but have not yet confirmed that there's a change in the apt cache format before and after multiarch, requiring rm /var/cache/apt/*cache* && apt-get update to get everything where it's supposed to be17:35
cjwatson(is there user documentation for multiarch yet?)17:36
slangasekcjwatson: the UI is still a little rough, probably will remain so for natty as I don't see us turning this on by default - I'll work on user documentation next week17:36
slangasekgiven that today is the first day that it's possible to run that apt-get command against the archive and have it succeed (and only once the NEWed eglibc is published), I didn't want to encourage foot-shooting too early :)17:37
cjwatsonheh, yeah17:37
hyperairari-tczew: weird, your coredump seems truncated. or so gdb says =\17:45
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=== beuno is now known as beuno-lunch
cjwatsonslangasek: without flushing the apt cache, 'sudo apt-get install libc6:amd64' now seems to list a reasonably plausible set of things to do17:50
cjwatson(this is before your latest eglibc change ...)17:50
slangasekcjwatson: right, the cache bit pertains to how Multi-Arch: foreign, Architecture: all packages are handled (which are only an issue once you get a little farther up the stack)17:51
slangasekcjwatson: and apt will happily start downloading the packages and only fail when it tries to configure the dependency loop :)17:51
=== sforshee-lunch is now known as sforshee
cjwatsonok ...17:54
ari-tczewhyperair: so what's the conclusion?17:54
hyperairari-tczew: the conclusion is that the coredump is completely useless ^_^17:55
hyperairsorry to say17:55
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
mterryslangasek, do you know what the deal with bug 739575 is?18:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 739575 in apr-util (Ubuntu) "Bad path in libapr-util-1.la" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73957518:01
mterry(seb128 promised you would  ;))18:01
seb128that's going to be a fun transition if we need to start rebuild .la in order18:02
slangasekmterry: .la files should not reference other .la files in their dependency_libs field (Debian Policy 10.2); see clean-la.mk in gnome-pkg-tools for an example fix18:03
slangasekseb128: well, I assumed most packages were already DTRT on this point, since it's in policy... I see I was too optimistic :)18:03
slangasekmterry: a quick-n-dirty fix is to just reupload the package that has the broken reference, but that's a bandaid18:03
Riddellev: I got usb-creator built on suse https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Ariddell%3Ausb-creator18:04
evRiddell: that's awesome!18:04
seb128$ grep [.]la *.la | grep dependency_libs | sed 's#:.*##' | sort | uniq | wc -l18:05
seb128in /usr/lib on my natty system18:05
lamont(etherape:25852): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_ascii_strcasecmp: assertion `s2 != NULL' failed18:05
lamontSegmentation fault18:05
lamontI'm pretty sure it's not supposed to do that18:05
mterryslangasek, well that's the interesting thing, when I rebuilt the package, it stopped referencing the other .la file in its own .la.   It started using -l syntax18:05
mterryNot sure how the original path got in there18:06
slangasekmterry: <cough> that's because libtool doesn't know to look in the multiarch directories at all for its .la files18:06
ari-tczewhyperair: so how can I do with that bug?18:06
mterryah...  so that's a fix by way of a different bug?  :)18:06
* hyperair shrugs18:06
lamontslangasek: I thought that was because libtool is just plain not  your friend18:06
lamontkinda like .la files, iirc18:07
mterryslangasek, could you rebuild apr-utils for me?  I'm not core-dev atm18:07
* doko doesn't ask when to start the rebuild test ...18:07
slangasekmterry: the .la is the expected behavior with libtool, when the dependent library has a .la of its own; but we really want it to be *empty*, not just switched to use -l18:07
slangaseklamont: libtool *isn't* my friend, and I really wish it would stop sending me these messages on LinkedIn18:07
slangasekmterry: sure thing18:08
lamontslangasek: heh18:08
slangasekseb128: 29 doesn't seem so bad... :)18:08
seb128slangasek, I'm happy that you are not scared about those ;-)18:09
slangasekseb128: care to paste me the list of actual lib names?  That way I can bump them proactively :)18:10
slangasekseb128: and no, 29 libs uploaded for a trivial .la change, compared to what I've /been/ doing, is not scary at all ;)18:10
seb128slangasek, http://paste.ubuntu.com/583439/18:12
slangasekseb128: sweet, thanks18:12
seb128slangasek, http://paste.ubuntu.com/583442/18:13
seb128slangasek, that's the corresponding sources18:13
seb128if you prefer that list18:13
seb128ups, binaries rather18:13
seb128I can do the sources version if you want ;-)18:13
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
slangasekseb128: binaries are fine, no problem18:18
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
KeybukSpamapS: you realise that there is no benefit to constructive discussion with Lennart, right? ;-)18:42
Keybukhis entire reason for even being on the upstart list and IRC channel is simply to be disruptive18:42
ograKeybuk, not to pick up clever ideas ?18:44
Keybukogra: well, given he generally describes Upstart as "wrong", I doubt that18:46
SpamapSKeybuk: I guess I'm like the guy who makes funny faces at the gorillas just to see if they'll fling excrement, event hough everybody has told me thats whats going to happen. ;)18:49
Keybukactually it's always fun to have more people make funny faces at him18:51
Keybukbecause then he'll reply that he's tried, and I'm not interested in working together18:51
Keybukand I'll point out that I've repeatedly said that I am, but that I don't consider "working together" to be "do what Lennart says"18:51
Keybukand then I attempt to get him to agree to something18:51
Keybukand he goes silent18:51
Keybukand then turns up with "NAK, I'm doing this differently in systemd" or something18:51
waltersKeybuk: 1) your movie twitter post was hilarious  2) i think he's doing the right thing; give him a little bit to come up with another approach18:54
Keybukcf. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34526#c118:54
ubottuFreedesktop bug 34526 in core "Support service activation via Upstart" [Enhancement,New]18:54
SpamapSKeybuk: I suppose all we can do to counter that is to be open and ask for comments on major changes... since... you know.. there are somewhere around a million more upstart users than systemd.. we should probably ask upstart users before Lennart. ;)18:54
KeybukSpamapS: at Google alone, there is probably 1,000 *times more* upstart installs than there are Fedora installs in the entire world ;-)18:55
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Keybukwalters: I'm not interesting in Lennart coming up with another approach - I'm interested in Lennart actually discussing with me, and others, what the other approach should be18:55
walterssure, so give him a bit of time to post that18:55
Keybukwalters: I've given him a year so far; how much more time should I give?18:56
Keybuk(the LISTEN_FDS discussion started April last year)18:56
Keybuksadly this approach of "the only valid decision is the one made by the Fedora+SuSE cabal" is starting to infect other projects18:57
Keybuksee the recent udev announcement that all systems must support /dev/.run as a tmpfs throughout boot that's later bind-mounted to /var/run18:57
Keybukand then the creation of /run after that18:57
Keybukwithout, at any point, asking any other distribution - many of which have *already solved this* - what they think the approach should be18:58
Keybukor going via the FHS or some other neutral body18:58
waltersKeybuk: i'm not involved in that really so i can't comment on it usefully18:59
Keybuklunch, bbl18:59
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\shhmmm..could it be that we are right now in the "Everything what Ubuntu does and did is wrong, nasty, evil and totally useless?" unity vs. gnome-shell, upstart vs. systemd , multi-arch ubuntu vs. multi-arch debian? (WRT http://jackyf.livejournal.com/115703.html)20:23
broder\sh: our multiarch spec is the same as debian's20:24
broderwhich is to say, we're using a spec developed at debconf, and for all intents and purposes is a "debian spec", not an "ubuntu spec", but just implementing it sooner20:25
highvoltage\sh: nah, Ubuntu does quite a few things really good20:25
\shbroder: I thought so, but it sounds different from the post I just read on p.d.o.20:25
cjwatsonjackyf is several years too late to the party20:26
broder\sh: that post is complaining about not understanding the spec that's being implemented20:26
broderand suggesting an alternative that they're asserting makes more sense20:26
ScottKcjwatson: If their blogging on livejournal, that's a given.20:28
\shbroder: I'm just concerned about "bad PR" with regards of the latest happenings20:29
ScottK\sh: Bad PR can happen whether you deserve it or not.  I think we should just minimize the deserving it and not worry about the rest.20:29
ScottK\sh: It would be interesting to hear about the distros that started transitioning to System D in 2006 when we started our Upstart transition.20:30
ScottKSome people don't understand the notion that time move in one direction for most mortals.20:31
nigelbkirkland: hey, add a warning to your blog.  The presentation linked on the scale website is wrong :P20:32
kirklandnigelb: thanks20:33
\shScottK: actually I don'20:33
kirklandnigelb: i wonder what's up with that20:33
ScottK\sh: You don'?20:34
nigelbkirkland: I poked Gareth, I figure he'll get it fixed :)20:34
\sh't care about what system we will or others will use...I just want to use the best technique and this technique needs to be supported for a long time20:34
\shmoment...phone call20:34
kirklandnigelb: cool, thanks20:34
kirklandnigelb: any chance you can ask them where my video is?  :-)20:34
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nigelbkirkland: yup, will do.  I wanna see it too :)20:36
ScottK\sh: Also keep in mind the author of that blog post decided apt was hopeless and is re-implementing it, so some level if disagreement from that source is not particularly suprising.20:41
slangasekyes, reimplementing it in perl20:44
nigelbScottK: heh, lol about livejournal comment :)20:44
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cndI'm trying to help someone get their game into Ubuntu, but there are possible issues with media licensing (fonts and audio)21:06
cndthe audio files clearly aren't gpl compatible, but I don't know if they really need to be21:06
cndis there some place where these issues can be reviewed?21:07
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ScottKcnd: We don't require GPL compatiblity.  To get into Universe it needs to be ~DFSG free (was also allow GFDL with invariant sections that Debian doesn't).  To get into Multiverse it just has to be legal to distribute.21:16
ScottKcnd: Any archive admin can answer questions, so just ask.21:16
slangasekjamespage: any luck with jenkins?21:17
slangasekor with openjdk, I should say21:17
cndScottK, I should have mentioned that the source code is GPL, but here's a merge request with the important information: https://code.launchpad.net/~libavg-team/geneatd/packaging.cleanup/+merge/5353821:19
ubottuUbuntu bug 53538 in samba (Ubuntu) "Not install package (dup-of: 9208)" [Undecided,New]21:19
ubottuUbuntu bug 9208 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Samba upgrade failure due to broken rc.d symlinks" [High,Fix released]21:19
cndthere's audio files that are CC-sampling 1.021:19
cndand the game source code is GPLv3+21:19
ScottKI'd have to look up that CC license, but IIRC it's problematic to combine those into one work.21:20
slangasekhowever, it's questionable whether a game engine + accompanying audio files are considered "one work"; it depends a lot on the specific license wording21:21
ScottKI guess.21:30
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cndScottK, so where do I go from here to get a more definitive answer?21:50
ScottKcnd: Get the package uploaded to REVU and then one of us archive admins might review it if we have time.  We don't have even a rough equivalent of debian-legal.23:41

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