[00:20] <s-fox> Hello.
[00:21] <s-fox> :)
[00:43] <ali1234> um, how do i enable compiz on natty classic?
[00:43] <ali1234> the "effects" tab is... gone
[00:44] <ali1234> also, who else thinks the icon for "no desktop effects" looks exactly like the ghostbusters logo?
[00:46] <hamitron> "don't like them creepy wavey windows?......" "who you gonna call?" ;/
[00:49] <ali1234> ok i am confused
[00:49] <ali1234> bug 701301
[00:49] <ali1234> this says i have to select it on the login screen
[00:49] <ali1234> ok, fair enough
[00:49] <ali1234> but the available options on the login screen don't appear to include unity
[00:50] <ali1234> and none of them give me compiz
[00:52] <dutchie> is there a #unity for you to complain in?
[00:53] <ali1234> complaining in #ubuntu+1
[00:53] <ali1234> i don't want unity, i want classic with compiz :)
[00:54] <ali1234> *all* the options on login screen give me exactly the same thing: classic with no effects...
[00:55] <ali1234> oh jeez... why is byobu in the menus?
[00:55] <ali1234> why would i even want to use this if i have a GUI?
[00:56] <dutchie> same problem with htop
[00:56] <dutchie> doubt bugs in the menus are going to get much love though
[00:57] <ali1234> i don't see htop
[00:57] <dutchie> it is not installed by default
[00:57] <ali1234> fair enough then
[00:57] <dutchie> but if you do install it, it inserts itself into system tools
[00:57] <ali1234> i dont even have a "system tools"
[00:57] <dutchie> that's because it's empty with default apps
[00:58] <ali1234> i see
[00:58] <dutchie> i suppose you are slightly more likely to launch htop from a gui than byobu
[00:58] <ali1234> going to make a new user
[00:58] <ali1234> see if it fixes login stuff
[00:59] <ali1234> oh wow the user settings dialogue doesn't work at all
[01:13] <ali1234> popey: i confirm your bug btw
[01:13] <ali1234> looks slightly different with human-murrine but it is clearly the same thing
[01:13] <ali1234> can't post screenshot though cos for some reason i don't have a network-manager icon either
[01:19] <ali1234> i like how there is multiple flavours of indicator applet now :)
[01:33] <ali1234> ooo grub supports mode setting now?
[01:44] <ali1234> how do i tell what i'm actually running?
[01:48] <ali1234> ...and then it locked up completely...
[03:49] <ball> I burned two Ubuntu CDs for a customer today.
[03:49] <Azelphur> :D
[03:55] <Azelphur> Anyone awake feel like looking over cooling setup? http://pastebin.com/HMggUSkN
[03:58] <ali1234> cool
[03:59] <Azelphur> ali1234: I thought you'd shout at me :o
[03:59] <Azelphur> lol
[03:59] <ali1234> cooling system for your PC: £300
[03:59] <ali1234> opening a window: priceless
[03:59] <Azelphur> xD
[03:59] <Azelphur> Overclocking to 4+ghz: priceless
[04:00] <ali1234> anyway, i don't know anything about cooling systems
[04:00] <ali1234> just felt like trolololing
[04:00] <Azelphur> :p
[04:00] <Azelphur> *shrug* it's cheaper than the ridiculous old cars some people have, and it has more purpose too
[04:01] <ali1234> don't old cards sell for about the same as that set up?
[04:01] <ali1234> *cars
[04:02] <Azelphur> ali1234: not if you keep them in a garage forever staring at them like "OMG ITS AWESOME *_*"
[04:02] <Azelphur> and "Noooo never sell this car"
[04:03] <Azelphur> fast PC can actually earn me money too, bitcoin @ idle ftw
[04:03] <Azelphur> or save the world, folding@home while idle
[04:03] <ali1234> just no
[04:03] <Azelphur> xD
[04:03] <Azelphur> :(
[04:03] <ali1234> bitcoin is going to earn you less than the cost of the electricity
[04:03] <Azelphur> haha
[04:04] <Azelphur> but nah as I say the main reason is I enjoy it and it's not an insanely expensive hobby when compared with a lot of others
[04:04] <ali1234> you can spend as much as you want on PCs without much difficulty
[04:04] <ali1234> just buy a mac pro
[04:04] <Azelphur> haha
[04:04] <ali1234> max it out: £10000
[04:05] <Azelphur> ali1234: sorry, I think you've got me confused....I want good hardware.
[04:05] <Azelphur> :P
[04:05] <ali1234> a mac pro *is* good hardware
[04:05] <Azelphur> it's ridiculously overpriced hardware with crappy software :D
[04:05] <ali1234> ok, it's not as good as the pricetag suggests, but it's not bad by any stretch
[04:05] <Azelphur> lol
[04:15]  * ball still fancies a Sun Ultra 60
[04:18] <Azelphur> ball: haha :D
[04:33]  * ball wanders off to the kitchen.
[04:52]  * ball wanders back with corn chips.
[06:18]  * ball falls down
[06:36] <HazRPG> well I've managed to do something rather unusual!
[06:37] <HazRPG> I've managed to make any sounds that seems to be outputting from any application, sound electronic
[06:37] <HazRPG> or rather digitised - like a robot :S
[06:37] <HazRPG> all I did was open up mumble while totem was playing a DVD
[06:38] <HazRPG> I've since closed totem and mumble... and it still hasn't corrected itself
[06:43] <HazRPG> huh, seems to be caused by speech-dispatcher
[06:43] <HazRPG> ending that, seems to have fixed it
[06:48] <Myrtti> myääähh, I hate flus
[06:58] <HazRPG> Myrtti: yeah same
[06:58] <HazRPG> Myrtti: *hugs*
[06:58] <HazRPG> brb
[07:19] <livingdaylight> hola ubunteros
[07:28] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:32] <AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/business
[07:40] <AlanBell> I am heading to the daubers area today
[07:53] <daubers> Morning
[07:54] <daubers> AlanBell: My area?
[07:54] <daubers> reading?
[07:54] <AlanBell> inkpen
[07:54] <AlanBell> you old area
[07:56] <daubers> Really? Who're you seeing? Someone in the Sawmills?
[07:57] <AlanBell> company that makes racing harnesses for F1 cars
[07:57] <daubers> That must be in the old Sawmill....
[07:58] <AlanBell> New Mills Industrial Estate, Post Office Road
[07:58] <AlanBell> so yeah
[07:58] <daubers> Yeah :)
[07:58] <daubers> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Inkpen,+UK&aq=&sll=36.668419,-104.414062&sspn=48.476708,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Inkpen,+Hungerford,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.379775,-1.462343&spn=0.00121,0.003484&t=h&z=19 There somewhere
[07:59] <AlanBell> yes
[08:01] <daubers> I have no idea which pub is currently in favour in the village, but the swan used to do a very nice steak, last I heard the chef had changed though so might be different now
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> My son is part of a select team of year 5s that have been asked to come together today and design the Olympic Stadium...
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thought we'd have a bit further on by now.
[08:01] <AlanBell> good to see they are getting some real expertise in
[08:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed - although it is going to take a *lot* of Lego.
[08:03] <AlanBell> I am still awaiting my callup for the olympics
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> Ubuntorch? :)
[08:19] <daubers> http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=50112714
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> dear internets.. PLEASE RESPOND
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://www.penguinpetes.com/Doomed_to_Obscurity/index.php?strip=0000412.jpg
[08:45] <DJones> Morning
[09:35] <JamesTait> Greetings, humans! :D
[09:37] <mungojerry> o_0 looking at canonical's ubuntu for business PDF and guess what? Properties: Acrobat Distiller 8.2.2 (Macintosh)/Adobe InDesign CS4 (6.0.6)
[09:40] <mungojerry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfooding
[09:47] <Myrtti> it probably wasn't done inhouse
[09:51] <mungojerry> maybe, yeah
[09:53] <screen-x> morning :)
[09:57] <kaushal> hi
[09:59] <kaushal> How do i find the wireless card is 802.11 g or 802.11 n ?
[09:59] <kaushal> I dont see it in lspci
[09:59] <hoover> good morning
[09:59] <kaushal> i checked nm-tool also
[10:01] <mungojerry> kaushal: do you know the model name of the card?
[10:01] <kaushal> mungojerry: yeah
[10:01] <screen-x> kaushal: possibly iwlist
[10:02] <screen-x> popey: were there any interesting oggcamp development over the weekend...........?
[10:02] <kaushal> 0c:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR5001 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
[10:03] <mungojerry> kaushal: iwconfig?
[10:03] <screen-x> mungojerry: ah, yes I get those two confused
[10:04] <screen-x> kaushal: but googling for ar5001 suggetsts its a/b/g
[10:04] <kaushal> screen-x: so its half duplex ?
[10:04] <kaushal> since full duplex is supported in 802.11 n ?
[10:05] <kaushal> IEEE 802.11n ?
[10:05] <popey> screen-x: maybe
[10:05] <screen-x> popey: :)
[10:06] <kaushal> screen-x: is there a way to see if its half duplex or full duplex ?
[10:06] <kaushal> for wireless
[10:07] <hoover> brb
[10:08] <popey> wifi is half duplex or simplex
[10:08] <popey> ^ kaushal
[10:08] <kaushal> ok
[10:09] <kaushal> so full duplex is addressed in 802.11n right
[10:09] <popey> not quite, but kinda
[10:10] <popey> it uses two frequencies, 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
[10:10] <kaushal> ok
[10:10] <kaushal> so is there a next version after 802.11n ?
[10:10] <mungojerry> guys, how can i know for sure which driver is being used by a network card?
[10:10] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11
[10:10] <kaushal> mungojerry: yes
[10:11] <kaushal> sudo lspci -s address -vvv
[10:11] <kaushal> ^ mungojerry
[10:11] <popey> mungojerry: click network manager and choose connection info
[10:11] <mungojerry> kaushal: address?
[10:11] <popey> it tells you the driver in the dialog box
[10:12] <kaushal> popey: command line ?
[10:12] <popey> kaushal: pardon?
[10:12] <kaushal> I mean about mungojerry query
[10:12] <mungojerry> popey: it's on a remote machine running redhat :(
[10:13] <mungojerry> kaushal: i don't see the module listed in the output from the command
[10:13] <popey> mungojerry: details dude, details :)
[10:14] <kaushal> mungojerry: sudo lspci -s 09:00.0 -vvv
[10:14] <kaushal> mungojerry: so run sudo lspci
[10:14] <popey> er
[10:14] <kaushal> and then run this command sudo lspci -s 09:00.0 -vvv
[10:15] <kaushal> so the address 09:00.0 can be seen in the output of sudo lspci
[10:15] <mungojerry> http://pastebin.com/4TygCWMj
[10:15] <kaushal> against the Network Controller Card
[10:15] <mungojerry> expecting to see the tg3 module or other mentioned
[10:16] <kaushal> mungojerry: the pastebin is incomplete
[10:17] <mungojerry> kaushal: power dubgeting is the last line
[10:21] <popey> mungojerry: does it show up in lsmod?
[10:22] <mungojerry> popey: yes tg3 appears in lsmod, but is not abolsute proof that tg3 is used by that card
[10:23] <mungojerry> it uses prior knowledge that i suspect it is the tg3 driver.
[10:23] <mungojerry> the reason i'm asking is that the latest rhel pxe boot fails to boot on a machine due to missing driver
[10:23] <mungojerry> in the pxe kernel
[10:27] <popey> mungojerry: is it the only network card in the machine?
[10:27] <popey> mungojerry: do you have kvm access?
[10:29] <mungojerry> popey: it's the only net card. i did a dmesg | grep tg3 and that seems conclusive enough i think
[10:29] <mungojerry> tg3: eth0: Link is up at 100 Mbps, full duplex. / tg3: eth0: Flow control is off for TX and off for RX.
[10:29] <popey> yeah
[10:29] <popey> i was going to suggest unloading the driver :)
[10:30] <mungojerry> :O
[10:30] <mungojerry> :P
[10:30] <popey> that would be conclusive
[10:31] <mungojerry> the bug is actually a regression since centos 5.5 worked fine :(
[10:31] <screen-x> mungojerry: lshw -C net
[10:31] <screen-x> should specify module= in the capabilities: line
[10:32] <mungojerry> screen-x: sweet, just installing it
[10:32] <mungojerry> fantastic
[10:32] <mungojerry> that's the one
[10:32] <mungojerry> might help kaushal too :)
[10:33] <mungojerry> http://pastebin.com/kJ2MgZK8
[10:33] <kaushal> mungojerry: ok
[10:33] <ormiret> Elwell: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Writer/FormattingPagesAndDocuments/How_do_I_insert_a_Landscape_page_into_my_(portrait)_document%3F Though here you can ignroe the first half as the Landscape style already exists.
[10:37] <popey> mine doesnt specify the module on the capabilities line
[10:38] <screen-x> popey: configuration line?
[10:38] <mungojerry> popey: does it state driver instead?
[10:38] <mungojerry> configuration: autonegotiation=on broadcast=yes driver=e1000e
[10:38] <popey> ah yes
[10:38] <popey> so it does
[10:38] <popey> driver=forcedeth
[10:39] <popey> driver=ath5k
[10:39] <mungojerry> the RH version must be ancient
[10:39] <popey> alan@mrevo:~/click$ lshw -version
[10:39] <popey> B.02.14
[10:39] <screen-x> popey: I misread it initially, and didnt see thet start of configuration line.
[10:39] <popey> :)
[10:39] <popey> thanks, useful info
[10:40] <mungojerry> i liek how there's about 10 commands and they are all nearly right but only one does exactly what you want
[10:40] <popey> \o/ choice
[10:52] <mungojerry> man, i'm glad the weekend is over. now i'm back to work i can rest
[10:53] <mungojerry> and actually sit down for long periods of time only using my brain and fingers to type
[10:53] <screen-x> mungojerry: heh, I feel a bit like that, though I do enjoy the hectic weekends :)
[10:53] <mungojerry> screen-x: for me, a good weekend is where i haven't done much.
[10:54] <mungojerry> this weekend was the opposite. plus baby decided to get a fever during the night, meaning sleep deprivation of 50%
[10:55] <mungojerry> i don't know how single parents cope. we are both working flat out
[10:56] <screen-x> mungojerry: I guess I will appreciate tranquility once kids arrive!
[10:56] <mungojerry> screen-x: yeah, and make the most of lie-ins.
[10:56] <s-fox> Hello.
[10:57] <mungojerry> morning
[10:57] <screen-x> morning s-fox, just in time for elevenses
[10:57] <s-fox> Hello mungojerry :)
[10:57] <s-fox> Hello screen-x =)
[10:57] <s-fox> mmm, food
[11:00] <davmor2> morning all
[11:00] <davmor2> czajkowski: why you in wales?
[11:00] <popey> davmor2: ireland I believe
[11:00] <popey> yes, they let her back in!
[11:01] <davmor2> popey: I think her is still on her way
[11:01] <davmor2> popey: we got time to put up the barriers before she returns this time :D
[11:03] <mungojerry> looking at the list of ideas for google SOC. i notice debian are thinking of something similar to launchpad PPAs
[11:04]  * bigcalm click/clacks noisily
[11:04] <screen-x> bigcalm: BOFHing?
[11:05] <mungojerry> bigcalm: IBM keyboard?
[11:06] <daubers> HAH! Agencies really are borrom feeding scum these days
[11:06] <daubers> £4.5k for 1 role
[11:07] <screen-x> oh dear
[11:07] <mungojerry> yeah, best to advertise on jobsite, cwjob and guardian jobs yerself. it's not as if they do much work on the CV fitlering
[11:07] <daubers> mungojerry: Already have :) They got my details from there and cold called me
[11:07] <directhex> which agency?
[11:07] <daubers> recruit360 was the one that just rang
[11:08] <directhex> IT job?
[11:08] <mungojerry> once i got sent to a java dev job, when i'm a sysadmin. clearly a mismatch. when i asked to see the copy of my cv they had been given , the agency had inserted a line into my CV that was clearly false
[11:09] <directhex> mungojerry, this is why you only send CVs as .pdf. if they insist on .doc, they want to lie on your cv
[11:09] <daubers> directhex: developer type, yes :)
[11:09] <directhex> daubers, then that agency is a sham. there are a few semi-competent agencies for IT types
[11:10] <daubers> directhex: It's normally so they can take your contact details out and replace it with theirs so they can't be pulled out of the loop
[11:10] <directhex> daubers, indeed. but if they want that, you can provide a PDF with that
[11:10] <BigRedS> yeah, where I used to work we got anonymised CVs from agencies. but if they're that into it there's nothing stopping them editing a pdf, too
[11:10] <directhex> BigRedS, there's the technical barrier. these aren't wizards
[11:11] <screen-x> gpg sign it :)
[11:11] <daubers> directhex: I just supplied CV's with my contact stuff hidden in the meta data bits :) Got a couple of phone calls from people who got my CV from that agency and didn't want to pay the rates
[11:11] <mungojerry> once i was choosing between 2 jobs.. (back in 2001). one was a dotcom, one was a bank. the agency for the dotcom role got an ex-employee of the bank to cold call me to tell me why i shouldn't work for the bank. i took the bank job and 2 months later the dotcom folded.
[11:12] <BigRedS> ach, you could've saved them!
[11:12] <directhex> really though, some agencies aren't awful
[11:12] <daubers> I see no reason to pay 15% of an annual salary as an agency fee, what they do isn't worth that much
[11:12] <mungojerry> BigRedS: it was LOLtastic. they had a room full on sun kit they didn't know how to use. they had bought it cheap from boo.com when they folded
[11:12] <directhex> monarch and huxley are some of the less bad ones
[11:14] <gord> ubuntu not part of gsoc :(
[11:14] <gord> shame on google!
[11:14] <mungojerry> gord: http://askubuntu.com/questions/31064/ubuntu-isnt-on-googles-list-of-summer-of-code-participants
[11:47] <kazade> morning
[11:47] <popey> lo
[11:48] <s-fox> o/
[11:49]  * kazade is ill :(
[11:50] <popey> :(
[11:50] <kazade> popey, you been running my app? ;)
[11:51] <popey> a bit :)
[11:51] <kazade> cool :)
[11:51] <kazade> any weirdness?
[11:51] <popey> not yet
[11:52] <popey> dont get to use it much because I'm not at an Ubuntu machine daytime
[11:52] <kazade> you on WIndows?
[11:52]  * kazade raises the priority of the Windows port
[11:53] <bigcalm> Na, TweetDeck is good enough ;)
[11:54] <kazade> bigcalm, TweetDeck will have more features than mine
[11:54] <kazade> I'm going for lightweight and elegant ;)
[11:54] <bigcalm> Good :)
[11:55] <mungojerry> kazade: do you have a PPA for your app?
[11:55]  * mungojerry is good at breaking apps
[11:55] <kazade> mungojerry, it's still way too early for mass testing. Popey has a copy because it was partly his idea :)
[11:55] <mungojerry> ok :P
[11:55] <kazade> *popey (capitalize fail)
[11:56] <popey> heh
[11:57] <bigcalm> Anybody know how to change the key repeat rate in windows?
[11:57] <bigcalm> This new keyboard is horrible slow
[11:57] <bigcalm> And, hi peeps :)
[11:58] <kazade> mungojerry, btw #ubuntu-uk == beta testers ;)
[11:58] <bigcalm> Found it
[12:08] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
[12:12] <BigRedS> G'morning brobostigon !
[12:12] <brobostigon> hi BigRedS :)
[12:13] <BigRedS> hello! How's things?
[12:14] <brobostigon> BigRedS:  massive headache, dry throat, back pain. and you?
[12:15] <BigRedS> generally aching from carrying boxes all weekend, but otherwise pretty good
[12:15] <BigRedS> what've you been up to to end up like that?
[12:16] <brobostigon> BigRedS: i have been up to nothing,
[12:29] <mungojerry> it's lunchtime, so it must be my hour of eating and trying to break unity/natty
[12:30] <brobostigon> :)
[12:30] <brobostigon> hehe,
[12:30]  * BigRedS doesn't need to try
[12:31] <Pendulum> s/trying to break/breaking ?
[12:32] <brobostigon> i am on gnome-shell on natty, and other than gpu lockup's, it hasnt broken proper, in a while now.
[12:34] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096
[12:35] <brobostigon> that is my natty bugbear,
[12:38] <mungojerry> brobostigon: i have the 945g  - is 945gm the laptop version?
[12:40] <brobostigon> mungojerry: i am presuming so, as i am on an eeepc.
[12:42] <mungojerry> ah, i was gonna try natty on my eee
[12:43] <mungojerry> just noticed that the banshee systray control is gone and launcher doesn't have any features for playing/stopping music yet :S
[12:43] <mungojerry> beta 1 in 10 days :P
[12:43] <brobostigon> yes.
[12:43] <popey> test with the kernel bryce gave?
[12:44] <popey> comment #5 and #8
[12:44] <brobostigon> popey: i did, the system wouldnt boot at all, and frooze just in mid boot.
[12:45] <popey> you might want to leave a comment to that effect
[12:45] <mungojerry> :P
[12:45] <brobostigon> i will do, yes, i only managed to test tht kernel late last night.
[12:46]  * mungojerry whips out his eee for some reformatting
[12:49] <mungojerry> firefox has serious issues: open 50 tabs..1Gb resident RAM usage. close 49 tabs... 900MB resident RAM usage
[12:49] <brobostigon> sometimes it doesnt happen for days, and then it happens really often, its very weird,
[12:53] <BigRedS> I think weird memory usage is something of a Mozilla trademark
[12:57] <X3N> mm firefox rc is running really nicely
[12:59] <davmor2> mungojerry: that's because FF the instance is still running so the memory is still in use for cache purposes,  if you close the one window and open it again it'll free up loads.  Well Known issue :)
[13:00] <X3N> aww they haven't fixed the resizeable dialog boxes
[13:19] <screen-x> The upcoming samsung 900 series laptops have 5xYes ports apparently http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/pc-peripherals/notebook-computers/thin-and-light/NP900X3A-A01UK/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=specification
[13:22] <directhex> damn, i need a yes hub then
[13:24] <mungojerry> davmor2: yes, it's annoyed me for a long time since i rarely restart the whole app. thought they might have got round to fixing in ff4
[13:25] <screen-x> mungojerry: my gmail __tab_ is using 470mb
[13:26] <mungojerry> screen-x: wow, you can run thunderbird on less
[13:26] <screen-x> yah, but I wouldn't want to ;-)
[13:50] <mungojerry> there seems to be a habit lately across the computing world to make computers less usable. firefox joined the game too with missing status bar and missing RSS icon. fortunately there's add-ons for that
[13:51] <screen-x> mungojerry: I really like the chromium status bar, its there exactly as long as you need it, but doesn't take up space when you don't need it.
[13:52] <mungojerry> don't really like chromium as much for some reason
[14:26] <jgjones_> Hmm
[14:26] <jgjones_> I was looking thru some old CD's and came across Darwinia
[14:27] <jgjones_> which was a decent game.
[14:27] <jgjones_> And looked up their site to see if they're around and happily they are.
[14:27] <jgjones_> but noticed that they have opensourced Darwinia and Multiwina - it's not free open source, you have to purchase it
[14:29] <directhex> they did that with uplink too
[14:29] <jgjones_> Be nice to see a linux version of Multiwinia like there is with Darwinia
[14:33] <jgjones_> Anyway, have anyone got or played with an Android Honeycomb tablet?
[14:33] <jgjones_> Looking at getting a tablet
[14:33] <mungojerry> jgjones_: aybe they shoudl get it into the humble indie bundle
[14:34] <screen-x> what for jgjones_? (not sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested..)
[14:35] <jgjones_> Number of reasons - but one of the biggest use would be for video calling (something I do all the time)
[14:35] <jgjones_> Taking notes
[14:36] <jgjones_> quick access for surfing etc while on the move (I still don't like netbooks)
[14:36] <screen-x> jgjones_: hand written, or tapped?
[14:36] <jgjones_> screen-x, both
[14:36] <directhex> i'd consider one, if i didn't think tablets were pointless and android was sucky
[14:36] <jgjones_> finger-writing is fine
[14:37] <screen-x> jgjones_: I find it much harder than using a stylus
[14:37] <jgjones_> I had the chance to use an iPad and it was quite useful, but I felt rather restricted with it. I would consider the iPad 2 and root it.
[14:37]  * brobostigon would like like to try a tablet with QNX.
[14:37] <jgjones_> screen-x, you can get stylus that work on tablets.
[14:38] <jgjones_> directhex, Android isn't perfect, but I find it easier to work with than iOS.
[14:39] <directhex> brobostigon, rim?
[14:39] <jgjones_> anyway video calling is the biggest use though. Another use I would use for tablets is for use as a captioned relay
[14:39] <brobostigon> directhex: yes, i tried QNX  few years ago now, and was really impressed.
[14:40]  * mungojerry doesn't remember when he last used a webcam or made a video call
[14:40] <directhex> brobostigon, i can't think of a worse os for a battery-constrained device though
[14:40] <jgjones_> Captioned relay - alternative to text/video relay - you call the relay, and talk on phone normally, but all replies can be heard, but you get the replies captioned on a display
[14:40] <mungojerry> afaik the touchscreens on tablets don't work well with stylus - correct me if i'm wrong
[14:40] <brobostigon> directhex: yes, you maybe right.
[14:41] <jgjones_> mungojerry, I'm deaf - so I use sign language - thus I use video calling a lot :-)
[14:41] <mungojerry> jgjones_: do you use a real VC too?
[14:41] <mungojerry> i mean dedicated VC system
[14:41] <jgjones_> VC?
[14:41] <mungojerry> videconf
[14:41] <mungojerry> like tandberg, polycom
[14:42] <jgjones_> oh
[14:42] <screen-x> jgjones_: so you need a tablet with a stand...
[14:42] <jgjones_> No
[14:42] <jgjones_> mungojerry, too expensive - however I used to have Polycom VC software
[14:42] <jgjones_> Still have it actually.
[14:42] <mungojerry> jgjones_: i think it's possible to make a direct video call with ekiga to one of those devices
[14:43] <jgjones_> screen-x, yup, a foldable stand, or a case that can be used as a stand.
[14:43] <mungojerry> last employer used tandberg vc and 50 inch screens - really nice
[14:43] <jgjones_> mungojerry, you can - but video codecs tend to be an issue.
[14:43] <jgjones_> Best VC system I used was made by LifeSize
[14:44] <jgjones_> mungojerry, HD video conf is very nice
[14:44] <jgjones_> I'll get it if I succeed in my job application this Friday
[14:44] <screen-x> jgjones_: got an interview?
[14:44] <jgjones_> Sort of.
[14:45] <screen-x> Cool :)
[14:45] <jgjones_> Go into a shop, hand over £2, get a piece of paper with a number.
[14:45] <jgjones_> If successful, I'll be employed as a millionaire playboy.
[14:45] <screen-x> haha
[14:45] <jgjones_> ;-)
[14:46] <mungojerry> i have long discussions with people about the odds of winning the lottery
[14:46] <DJones> mungojerry: Its 50:50, You either will or you won't :)
[14:46] <mungojerry> i start the argument by proposing that it is impossible.
[14:46] <screen-x> mungojerry: I was always taught that the lottery is a tax for the mathematically challenged
[14:47] <jgjones_> You have better chances of getting hit by a rock from outer space, so I'm betting on either winning or getting hit by a rock.
[14:48] <jgjones_> mungojerry, you should aruge that people should use the number 1,2,3,4,5,6 :-) People always say it's impossible and silly and doesn't accept that they have an equal chance of coming up as any other numbers.
[14:49] <directhex> screen-x, you could say the same about insurance.
[14:50] <mungojerry> the lottery plays on the idea that "see, somebody won it, could have been me", when humans can't comprehend the unlikelyhood of 1 in 15million odds
[14:50] <screen-x> directhex: except insurance is a legal requirement
[14:50] <directhex> screen-x, some insurances are
[14:51] <screen-x> directhex: and the otherones I don't have. With the exception of house insusrance, but thats only because of the large debt attachted to it.
[14:51] <directhex> most houses don't fall down
[14:52] <screen-x> directhex: I'd say electrical fire is the most likely catastrophe.
[14:53] <screen-x> directhex: though we've already had one break in :(
[14:53] <directhex> are you insured against earthquakes?
[14:53] <mungojerry> buildings iinsurance is compulsory, not contents insurance
[14:53] <screen-x> directhex: no, I think "Acts of God" are excluded
[14:54] <directhex> insurance is gambling, no matter how you dress it up
[14:54] <mungojerry> i am insured aganist earthquakes by virtue of living in teh uk
[14:54] <screen-x> directhex: yah, but its gambling against loss rather than gain.
[14:56] <daubers> mungojerry: I tend to enter the lottery on weeks when I see something I desperatley want but can't afford. I'm happy to pay a pound for a slightly higher chance of owning that thing :)
[14:56] <daubers> like the replica light cycles
[14:57] <daubers> entered the lottery that week :)
[14:57] <screen-x> daubers: but if you saved all those pound coins up, you could buy a box of cornettos
[14:57] <mungojerry> mmm cornettos
[14:57] <daubers> screen-x: Still not a light cycle
[14:58] <daubers> screen-x: and since it's like 5/6 times a year, it would take a lot of saving to get to the $300,000 those bikes went for
[14:58] <screen-x> daubers: hence the realistic savings target
[14:58] <mungojerry> daubers: but the odds you are hoping in are so ridiculously small, if you considered the chances of other 1 in 15m odds actually happening to you, you would never go out...in fact...even in your house it would be dangerous
[14:59] <BigRedS> Aren't there smaller prizes with substantially higher odds in the lottery?
[14:59] <BigRedS> I don't know, I've never paid it much attention at all, but people seem to keep winning not-that-much
[14:59] <daubers> mungojerry: Indeed, but it's slightl better odds than I had to start with.  It's only ever for things that will come up once in a lifetime
[15:00] <mungojerry> i wonder if anyone has done a study on the death rates of jackpot winners
[15:00] <mungojerry> 100% of course...but
[15:00] <mungojerry> premature death..
[15:01] <daubers> mungojerry: Might be 99% if you take in account the ones that decide to freeze themselves
[15:02] <mungojerry> i heard that bankrupty rates are higher too among lottery winners
[15:02] <mungojerry> i still have no idea how sarah ferguson got into so much debt...it was millions i think
[15:02] <daubers> That doesn't surprise me, when you have mroe money than sense you lose perspective of what it's worth
[15:03] <Pendulum> I know some people who won a £100k or something at one point. They'd spunked it away in I think 2 years
[15:03] <daubers> If I won that now, it'd be a house deposit
[15:03] <popey> I'd buy a mac
[15:04] <popey> and live in it
[15:04] <daubers> popey: With that amount of money you could buy a mac AND a chupa chup lolley
[15:04] <popey> yay!
[15:04] <popey> chupa chups!
[15:04] <mungojerry> i know a live who lives in a mac
[15:05] <dwatkins> I'd buy a cheap house and get a bit of cash each month with the rent :D
[15:05] <mungojerry> he's a flasher
[15:05] <Pendulum> daubers: they owned a house. TBH, I don't know where the money went :-/
[15:05] <daubers> Buying houses is hard at the moment :(
[15:05] <mungojerry> a lot of premiership footballers seem to have gambling issues
[15:05] <daubers> silly mortgage lenders wanting 25-30% deposits
[15:06] <ging> selling them is a lot harder
[15:06] <mungojerry> because 30k a week isn't enough
[15:06] <screen-x> ging: yeah
[15:06] <directhex> i'd pay off most of my debts with that moolah.
[15:06] <daubers> ging: Bit of a vicious circle, it's hard to sell because it's hard to buy
[15:07] <daubers> having spoken to a few estate agents over the few weeks, the  number of people who're after a quick sale is almost everyone selling :)
[15:07] <ging> daubers yeah but i dont just mean it's hard to find a buyer i mean it's hard to  get the sale done there is just so much pointless paperwork
[15:07] <mungojerry> Ging, yeah that sucks
[15:07] <daubers> ging: Meh, the missus deals with the paperwork, she's the one with the legal training
[15:08] <ging> i accepted an offer on my flat 6 month ago and they've still not exchanged yet
[15:08] <mungojerry> i even employed the same solicitor firm as my seller in order to get it moved through quicker - made no difference
[15:08] <daubers> ging: That's a bit shocking... I'd harass the agent some more
[15:09] <ging> daubers: i have been, i'm not sure if my solicitor sucks or if they other solicitor is being overly picky with the paperwork
[15:10] <mungojerry> recently i bought a house from my sister and sold my house to my other sister. no other people in the chain- still took ages
[15:11] <screen-x> mungojerry: keeping it in the family..
[15:11] <mungojerry> yep
[15:11] <ging> mungojerry: may not been other buyers involved but presumable there was atleast 3 mortgage lenders involved
[15:11] <mungojerry> my first house i bought from my bruv too
[15:12] <ging> the mortgage lenders demand a lot of the paperwork
[15:12] <mungojerry> Ging, the hold up was just due to general faffing around by the solicitors
[15:12] <mungojerry> and they go on holiday without passing on work to other colleagues to do in the mean time
[15:12] <mungojerry> and complete lack of communication between solicitors
[15:13]  * hamitron has bought some shares
[15:13] <hamitron> no house for me atm ;)
[15:13] <mungojerry> in which compa?
[15:13] <ging> well i have 2 flat and 2 sets of bills at the moment
[15:13] <hamitron> a few
[15:14] <hamitron> well, several
[15:14] <mungojerry> my ARM shares fell 20% due to an earthquake
[15:14] <hamitron> ;/
[15:14] <hamitron> mine have averaged about 25% increase over 14 months
[15:14] <davmor2> mungojerry: don't put your arm over a fault line is the lesson to be learnt here I think
[15:15] <directhex> it's a curious indirect issue
[15:16] <directhex> lcd manufacture is damaged by the earthquake, which means fewer devices out of japan in general.
[15:16] <mungojerry> i think  toshiba and samsung have closed their LCD factories for a bit
[15:16] <mungojerry> yep
[15:16] <mungojerry> but 20% is OTT
[15:16] <mungojerry> but the market is not wise to these things
[15:16] <directhex> so whilst the japanese don't make any real quantities of arm chips, they aren't making devices to consume them
[15:17] <hamitron> omfg
[15:18] <hamitron> 3.1gb update download for WoW?
[15:18]  * brobostigon shares his chocolate buttons with everyone.
[15:18] <hamitron> :D
[15:19]  * mungojerry is munching on 31p sainsburys value chocolate bar
[15:19] <daubers> oooh... good time to buy shares then
[15:19]  * brobostigon wonders if he really should be watching countdown.
[15:19] <directhex> hamitron, sounds chunky. do they have textures to make the game look as good as a 2004 release yet?
[15:19]  * mungojerry is tidying up old user accounts because nobody else will do it
[15:20] <mungojerry> directhex: if WOW is 2004, then minecraft must be...1986?
[15:20] <directhex> mungojerry, to an extent
[15:20] <directhex> mungojerry, a high res texture pack brings it into the 90s
[15:24] <brobostigon> yay, i got the one of the countdown maths puzzles in the time, and right, :)
[15:24] <hamitron> meh
[15:24] <hamitron> blizard merged WoW accounts to Battle.Net when?
[15:24] <mungojerry> i need to buy  5 or 6 HP printers and i'm discovering that the toner costs the same as the old printer toner but only for 50% of the pages ... rip off britain
[15:25] <brobostigon> mungojerry: as my dad said the other day, after buying a set of cartridges, you could have almost bought a new printer or the cost.
[15:26] <directhex> hamitron, years ago?
[15:26] <hamitron> ok ;)
[15:26] <hamitron> chrome isn't working well with the website either :/
[15:26] <brobostigon> for the *
[15:26] <hamitron> that or it is broken
[15:26] <directhex> (March 20, 2009)
[15:27] <mungojerry> one of my fb friends says he got an android tablet for £79 from maplins today
[15:28] <mungojerry> wonder if maplins is one of popey's special trigger words
[15:30] <popey> :)
[15:30] <popey> no, but "popey" is
[15:30] <mungojerry> :P
[15:30] <mungojerry> apparently special offer in liverpool street new branch
[15:31] <ging> was it this http://www.maplin.co.uk/slate-5-inch-android-touch-tablet-506985 ?
[15:31] <popey> it will be crap
[15:32] <popey> i saw one in there at the weekend
[15:32] <mungojerry> he hasn't updated his status,..prob playing with it
[15:32] <popey> haha they have lots of B-Grade ones too
[15:32] <mungojerry> might be b grade http://www.maplin.co.uk/7inch-android-2.1-scroll-tablet-506956?ordercode=B60NG
[15:32] <mungojerry> what is B-grade ? returned/opened/refurb stock?
[15:32] <mungojerry> AKA ebuyer A grade
[15:33] <mungojerry> B-Grade includes used and unused returned products, end of line, slightly marked or refurbished products.
[15:33] <popey> which says they probably get a lot sent back :)
[15:33] <popey> also
[15:33] <popey> 3 hour battery
[15:33] <ging> popey: i was thinking that
[15:33] <popey> "The high-resolution, extra bright colour screen is perfect whether you are watching a movie or browsing the web."
[15:33] <popey> "Resolution 800 x 480 pixels"
[15:34] <popey> riiiiight
[15:34]  * mungojerry might prefer a nook
[15:34] <ging> that was high in 2002
[15:34]  * mungojerry has an eee pc
[15:34] <mungojerry> 640x480
[15:34] <mungojerry> no actually 800x480 :P
[15:34] <directhex> you can buy a crummy 7" android tablet at NEXT, let alone maplins
[15:35] <brobostigon> 1024:600, is mine, perfectly resonable really.
[15:36] <popey> mungojerry: 701?
[15:36] <mungojerry> yeah
[15:36] <mungojerry> i broke the golden rule of early adoption by necessity
[15:37] <mungojerry> never again
[15:37] <popey> i had a 701, upgraded to 900, nice little devices
[15:37] <brobostigon> :)
[15:37] <popey> i used to sit in the curry house waiting for my curry with it
[15:37] <popey> using the stock xandros install
[15:37] <popey> which I didnt find that bad
[15:37] <brobostigon> and boost about it here.:)
[15:38] <mungojerry> except i generally want my hardware to serve me longer
[15:38] <mungojerry> the specs and battery are a bit poo
[15:38] <brobostigon> boast*
[15:38] <mungojerry> ubuntu boots quickly too
[15:39] <brobostigon> agreed.
[15:40] <mungojerry> i should probably just install command-line debian on it
[15:40] <mungojerry> since i mainly use it for ssh
[15:40] <brobostigon> mungojerry: connecting to wifi is easy in cli. :)
[15:40] <mungojerry> i really want a super quick boot
[15:40] <mungojerry> that is all
[15:41] <brobostigon> mungojerry: thats how i do most of my installs, use thealternate installer, do cli install, and build from there.
[15:41] <daubers> popey: My missus uses your old 701 on the train to Oxford and back every day
[15:41] <mungojerry> daubers: new battery?
[15:42] <daubers> mungojerry: Yup, longer life on while I was at it
[15:42]  * screen-x did have a 701 but it got nicked :(
[15:42] <brobostigon> screen-x: thats sad, :(
[15:44] <popey> haha
[15:44]  * mungojerry hopes popey typed that in a wrong window
[15:44] <popey> 15:41:40 < daubers> popey: My missus uses your old 701 on the train to Oxford and back every day
[15:44] <popey> lag
[15:44] <mungojerry> oh :P
[15:44] <daubers> :)
[15:45] <daubers> It's quite good for typing up her lecture notes
[15:45] <popey> whats it running?
[15:45] <daubers> Ubuntu..... something... lucid I think
[15:45] <mungojerry> i installed eclipse on mine the other day
[15:45] <daubers> last one with unity that contained the big desktop widget full of the apps
[15:46] <daubers> mungojerry: Ooof
[15:46] <dutchie> mungojerry: has it started up yet?
[15:46]  * mungojerry has 2gb of ram
[15:46] <popey> nice
[15:46] <screen-x> daubers: unity?
[15:46] <popey> mine only has 512MB
[15:46] <mungojerry> the ssd is slow thogh
[15:46] <daubers> screen-x: yeah, previous version of unity
[15:46] <brobostigon> mine has 1gb.
[15:46] <screen-x> daubers: netbook launcher?
[15:46] <daubers> screen-x: Thats the welly
[15:48] <mungojerry> hmm. just bought a site licence for £15k that allows resale to students. do i (1) give it to the students (2) charge the students a nominal fee of £10 to recoup costs
[15:48] <screen-x> hmm, either I'm going deaf or my headphones are knackered. I can't here any base unless I press them into my ears with fingers.
[15:48] <screen-x> mungojerry: hmm snap
[15:48] <mungojerry> lol
[15:48] <screen-x> mungojerry: wassitfor?
[15:49] <mungojerry> methematica
[15:49] <mungojerry> woops mathematica..
[15:49] <daubers> mungojerry: University?
[15:49] <mungojerry> yes
[15:49] <daubers> mungojerry: If so, give it to them!!!!!
[15:49] <mungojerry> :P
[15:49] <screen-x> mungojerry: yeah, give it to them
[15:49] <mungojerry> we offer it currently via termina lserver
[15:49] <daubers> mungojerry: My life would have been much easier if I'd have been given a copy by the uni instead of paying £80 odd for the 12month student version
[15:49] <dutchie> speaking as a maths student, give it to them :)
[15:50] <mungojerry> a lot of them are an ungrateful bunch though and give us hassle if its free
[15:50] <mungojerry> if there's a nominal fee then they might take more seriously
[15:51] <daubers> mungojerry: Or they'll just pirate it like 70%odd of my classmates did
[15:51] <mungojerry> :(
[15:51] <screen-x> mungojerry: bung it on an intranet server somewhere listed as unsupported.
[15:51] <screen-x> point anyone who asks at said page
[15:51] <mungojerry> however any money recouped would be spent on IT
[15:52] <mungojerry> since it's straight outta my budget
[15:52] <mungojerry> 1000 students...10% take-up = £1000
[15:52] <screen-x> mungojerry: give them ocatave then :p
[15:52] <daubers> octave is really manky compared to mathematica
[15:53] <screen-x> yeah :(
[15:53] <daubers> It's the one piece of massivley expensive software I consider to be worth the money
[15:53] <mungojerry> daubers: i wonder if most students realise that
[15:53] <daubers> mungojerry: Probably not
[15:54] <mungojerry> maple don't let us give it to undergrads
[15:54] <daubers> Didn't like maple
[15:54] <mungojerry> but their licence is cheaper
[15:55] <daubers> I really did like mathematica, the manual was probably worth £50 on it's own as a maths text book
[15:55] <daubers> the fact it works linux native too was a godsend
[15:56] <mungojerry> although rhel broke 3d drivers on intel for v5.x
[15:56] <mungojerry> which covers about 3yrs
[15:56] <mungojerry> at least on launchpad some bugs get fixed...try RH bugzilla
[16:10] <jacobw> afternoon
[16:11] <brobostigon> good afternoon jacobw
[16:11] <X3N> wow it's 4pm already
[16:11] <brobostigon> 16:11
[16:12] <jacobw> thanks for approving me X3N
[16:15]  * jacobw prods webchat-testing 
[16:15]  * webchat-testing squirms
[16:16] <screen-x> it's just me in another window ;-)
[16:16] <X3N> np jacobw
[16:16] <bigcalm> Can we cope with clones?
[16:17] <DJones> screen-x: Is that the round window or the square window
[16:17] <screen-x> DJones: its chrome, so slightly rounded
[16:17] <DJones> bigcalm: Obi Wan will sort the clones out
[16:18] <screen-x> I was just wondering what happens when you click the chat link on ubuntu-uk.org
[16:18] <webchat-testing> seems to work pretty well
[16:18] <X3N> it's via the freenode chat so it should work fine with multiple instances
[16:18] <screen-x> thats enough sock-puppeting
[16:20] <mungojerry> this is the maplins £79 tab: http://www.maplin.co.uk/7inch-android-2.1-scroll-tablet-510662
[16:20] <mungojerry> looks quite..."solid"
[16:21] <popey> ah yes, thats the one I saw on the shelf
[16:21] <mungojerry> this is not the droid you are looking for..
[16:21] <mungojerry> not bad for attaching to your toilet roll holder though
[16:22] <mungojerry> remember that jogglers were supposed to be £99
[16:22]  * jacobw makes a note to suggest these for work
[16:22] <popey> and running mains power to the loo
[16:22] <DJones> mungojerry: http://www.coupondepot.co.uk/deal-Maplin-Electronics-%C2%A350-off-7-inch-Android-2-1-Scroll-Touch-Tablet%5E162740.aspx
[16:23] <DJones> That offer has expired, but I wonder if they're still discounting it
[16:23] <jacobw> its always sad how these things aren't marketed as mobile computing power but as a novel way to update your facebook status
[16:23] <brobostigon> with android 2.1, thats dead old.
[16:24] <DJones> jacobw: That reminds me, happy 5th birthday twitter
[16:24] <popey> its on pre-order
[16:24] <popey> so basically not available
[16:24] <mungojerry> twitter is the reason why half the world now clicks on urls without knowing the desitnation domain :(
[16:25] <mungojerry> popey: that's cos all of their stocks are in liv st getting sold to geeks who like bargains
[16:25] <mungojerry> lol 40 in stock
[16:25] <DJones> mungojerry: The other half just click on a url shortened address & still don't know where they're going :)
[16:26]  * mungojerry notes that adding a + on good url shortneing services gives a preview of the site
[16:27] <popey> what about bad url shortnening services?
[16:27] <popey> like popey.me :)
[16:27] <jacobw> is that real?
[16:27] <popey> http://popey.me/eZomJz
[16:27] <popey> yes
[16:27] <popey> heh, it does too
[16:27] <popey> http://popey.me/eZomJz+
[16:27] <popey> neat
[16:27] <mungojerry> http://bit.ly/eZomJz+
[16:28] <mungojerry> :P
[16:28] <popey> handy
[16:28] <bigcalm> Might add that to my cuth.eu shortener
[16:28] <mungojerry> use it when i can on desktop, but if ur on amobile, you just click don't you?
[16:30] <brobostigon> silly three, why did they send me two lots of sims,
[16:31] <mungojerry> how do url shortening services support themselves financially?
[16:33] <livingdaylight> guys, how stable is the latest Ubuntu? I'm itching to try it already
[16:34] <bigcalm> It'll be out next month :)
[16:34] <brobostigon> with the gpulockup errors i amgetting, i would say, not stable yet. myself.
[16:35] <livingdaylight> dayam, I feel like trying something new today. I tried Pardus earlier - Beautiful - best kde distro I@m sure... Ubuntu could learn something from its installer - very polished - BUT, Network Manager is broken, lol at least for my laptop its no good, so, back hunting
[16:36] <mungojerry> livingdaylight: have you also tried alternative network managers?
[16:36] <brobostigon> livingdaylight: iwould try a persistant live usb. and have a play, no-risk playing.
[16:36] <mungojerry> brobostigon: +1
[16:36] <livingdaylight> mungojerry, they didn't seem to have much of a choice in their repos. Someone said to use wicd ,but its not in their repos.
[16:36] <mungojerry> ah
[16:37] <brobostigon> !info wicd natty
[16:37] <mungojerry> that's the beauty of debian/ubuntu loads of packages.
[16:37] <mungojerry> livingdaylight: you prefer kde to gnome?
[16:38] <livingdaylight> mungojerry, always been a gnome user, but Pardus persuaded me that I might be able to live with kde too
[16:38] <brobostigon> although i am mostly happy atthe moment with gnome-shell on natty.
[16:38] <livingdaylight> Pardus just didn't persuade me it was ready for my laptop yet, lol
[16:38] <mungojerry> depends what you want out of a distro i guess
[16:39] <BigRedS> it sounds, so far, like the sort of thing i'd expect from a pre-release distro
[16:39] <BigRedS> admittedly, further from release than it is, but that makes little odds
[16:40] <brobostigon> and every so often, Xorg deciding to spontaniously restart itself, is rather weird.:(
[16:44] <mungojerry> downloading natty to test on my eee - gotta gets those bugs squashed
[16:45] <brobostigon> definatly.
[16:45] <brobostigon> :)
[16:54] <livingdaylight> Anyone try Suse recently ? opensuse11.4 recently out.
[16:55] <BigRedS> I keep hearing that it's humane now, but I am still managing to avoid it
[16:56] <livingdaylight> BigRedS, they look to have done some nice things in this release.
[16:56] <popey> Achievement Unlocked; Never used SUSE!
[16:56] <livingdaylight> popey, huh? :P
[16:57] <popey> just being silly :)
[16:57] <daubers> popey: BBC use SUSE all over the place
[16:58] <BigRedS> they also use flash...
[16:59] <mungojerry> ugh unity launcher isn't hiding when apps are maximised today
[17:00] <mungojerry> usb-creator has taken 15 mins to create a natty live usb, that can't be right
[17:01] <livingdaylight> Libre Office and OpenOffice are the same? except the name?
[17:01] <brobostigon> i just heard, gnome-shell's calendar, will be indepedent from evolution, so you wont need to mess with evolution togets calendar notifications, i like.
[17:02] <X3N> It kind of already is as the calendar only uses evolution data server
[17:03] <X3N> but yeah, that does sound good
[17:03] <mungojerry> data server used to have a bug that ate all of your memory - it's fixed now, but made me hate it for a long time
[17:03]  * mungojerry just wrote his first software centre review 
[17:03] <mungojerry> notice a lot of ubuntu-uk people have too
[17:04] <gord> everyone should do that! or at least rate
[17:04] <hamitron> livingdaylight: basically, yes. just developed by 2 seperate groups
[17:04] <gord> it would be really cool if all the good apps had a rating
[17:05] <livingdaylight> hamitron, I must have been sleeping, lol... catching up on this OO.o fork.
[17:05] <livingdaylight> soneill, now we support the new group instead of Oracle?
[17:05] <hamitron> it really isn't long enough ago, to see them have many differences
[17:06] <hamitron> ubuntu is going libreoffice I believe
[17:06] <brobostigon> hamitron: yes. we are.
[17:07] <hamitron> just a shame about the name ;)
[17:08] <hamitron> sounds like a bunch of hippies have grabbed it and made it impossible to convince a boss to change to it
[17:10] <soneill> /ignore livingdaylight ;)
[17:11] <livingdaylight> soneill, :o
[17:11] <livingdaylight> i get myself in trouble with autocomplete, huh?
[17:11] <soneill> giggle
[17:11] <livingdaylight> :p
[17:12] <livingdaylight> hamitron, its a bit of a mouth-full i agree.
[17:13] <livingdaylight> but when "OpenOffice" is taken, what's left?
[17:14] <livingdaylight> Linux Office Suite? ;)
[17:14] <bigcalm> LibreOffice
[17:14] <bigcalm> !
[17:14] <bigcalm> Rar rar rar
[17:15]  * DJones wonders whether bigcalm has just become a cheerleader
[17:16] <livingdaylight> for some reason bigcalm has me think of Butterkist
[17:18] <bigcalm> Wassat?
[17:18] <bigcalm> It is like Sunkist?
[17:18] <popey> Butterkist Butterkist RAR RAR RAR!
[17:18] <popey> Hey! Crusader! Have you any NUTS!
[17:18] <popey> etc
[17:18]  * popey suspects he and livingdaylight are of the same vintage
[17:18] <livingdaylight> popey, remembers the ads ;)
[17:18]  * bigcalm goes looking
[17:19] <bigcalm> Oh, the popcorn
[17:19] <livingdaylight> ^^
[17:19] <bigcalm> Bad for my teeth :(
[17:19] <bigcalm> I think that's why I've blocked it from my memory
[17:19] <popey> Muhahaha, just got 38 points for "zit" in scrabble :)
[17:21] <HazRPG> afternoon everyone :)
[17:22] <brobostigon> good afternoon HazRPG :)
[17:22] <HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
[17:37] <HazRPG> how do I find out what my device ID is for my burner
[17:37] <HazRPG> apparently I need to run this command "cdrecord dev=0,6,0 speed=8 -v -multi -audio taudio01.wav"
[17:37] <HazRPG> but I don't know what to change dev=0,6,0 to
[17:37] <directhex> HazRPG, the debian fork of cdrecord will accept /dev nodes
[17:37] <HazRPG> directhex: ah nice one :)
[17:38] <gord> heh i remember having to do that kinda crazy stuff a year ago, do we not have a gui for that?
[17:39] <HazRPG> I wish we did :/
[17:39] <HazRPG> there's no easier way that I can find for grabbing out the info from .cdi and then burning it other than using cdirip and cdrecord
[17:40] <gord> tried the kde burning software? i remember that being pretty great
[17:40] <gord> tbh i haven't burnt a cd/dvd since usb ubuntu installs...
[17:40] <HazRPG> K3b ?
[17:41] <HazRPG> tried... didn't work - coasted about 5 discs so far :/
[17:42] <HazRPG> hmm, cdrecord didn't like those parameters apparently... hang on
[17:42] <screen-x> HazRPG: tried wodim?
[17:43] <HazRPG> that's the same application as far as I'm aware :P
[17:43] <HazRPG> I just changed it to dev=/dev/scd0 instead of just /dev/scd0, and removed -v
[17:45] <HazRPG> all good so far...
[17:46] <screen-x> HazRPG: ahh, ;-)
[17:47] <HazRPG> typing in cdrecord, shows wodim as outputs... so I'm guessing they are at least :P
[17:47] <HazRPG> well its burned now... lets see if this does the trick...
[17:50] <HazRPG> hmm, seems I've coasted another disc :/
[17:51] <HazRPG> did I do something wrong here :S
[17:51] <brobostigon> :(
[17:52] <gregoryfenton> is the audio file itself ok?
[17:53] <screen-x> HazRPG: are you burning a wav directly to the cd and expecting to play in cd player?
[17:54] <HazRPG> screen-x: trying to burn a dreamcast ISO
[17:54] <HazRPG> CDI* even
[17:55] <directhex> doesn't boot with the dreamcast boot loader i forget the name of? pretty sure you won't burn a self-boot with normal tools
[17:55] <HazRPG> I only downloaded stuff I actually own, thing is my disc is all the way in Saudi with my dad :/
[17:55] <directhex> the one with the spinning moose logo
[17:55] <HazRPG> directhex: Utopia, and yeah I'm currently looking at him :/
[17:55] <HazRPG> didn't self-boot, so went with the boot loader option
[17:56] <HazRPG> neither worked
[17:56] <directhex> linux burn tools can rarely represent the subchannel data needed for copy protection schemes
[17:57] <gregoryfenton> Do you have a patched version of cdrecord (as at http://poptix.net/CDI-HOWTO.txt )?
[17:58] <HazRPG> gregoryfenton: according to some people on ubuntu forums, it doesn't need to be patched
[17:59] <gregoryfenton> disclaimer: I in no way endorse the burning of anything to infringe copyright. I just googled.
[17:59] <HazRPG> I think I figured out what I did wrong though... I didn't set the data part as -xa1
[17:59] <HazRPG> gregoryfenton: don't worry, neither do I...
[18:01] <HazRPG> gregoryfenton: also, that's the .txt I'm reading too :)
[18:01] <HazRPG> hmm, is it possible its because I'm not finalising the disc?
[18:01] <gregoryfenton> does -cdi do anything on the command line?
[18:02] <HazRPG> gregoryfenton: -cdi by itself, or...?
[18:02] <gregoryfenton> no, your existing command and then -cdi (switch to cdi format from the cdrecord man page)
[18:03] <HazRPG> no I haven't
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> \o
[18:03] <screen-x> evening MartijnVdS
[18:04] <brobostigon> noswaith dda MartijnVdS
[18:04]  * MartijnVdS has a delicious Ceasar salad
[18:06] <HazRPG> evening MartijnVdS
[18:06] <livingdaylight> anyone have/use a linksys wrt 54gs router? Looking to upgrade firmware and reading here that there are a few alternatives, and I'm wondering which is best. There's Alchemy and Talisman by Seasoft and another named DD-~WRT just for starters
[18:07] <gregoryfenton> hazrpg have you tried using nero linux to burn it?
[18:07] <gregoryfenton> livingdaylight i use DD-WRT on my router, it works great.
[18:08] <HazRPG> gregoryfenton: I haven't no, but I haven't used nero for anything in over 10 years
[18:08] <brobostigon> livingdaylight: i use openwrt.
[18:08] <livingdaylight> gregoryfenton, ok... just looking at talisman here
[18:08] <livingdaylight> brobostigon, you got a linksys too? :)
[18:08] <livingdaylight> choices choices
[18:08] <brobostigon> livingdaylight: a wrt54gl. yes.
[18:09] <livingdaylight> mines' the gs version
[18:09] <livingdaylight> wrt54gs
[18:09] <gregoryfenton> livingdaylight - try them all, flashing is easy and you can see which you prefer.
[18:09] <HazRPG> you'd think linux would support multi-tracked discs though :(
[18:09] <brobostigon> gregoryfenton: good idea, :)
[18:10] <gregoryfenton> brobostigon I can but try
[18:10] <livingdaylight> I really don't want to try them all. I've just got Linksys default firmware since years now, and been having issues lately, probably due to ailing laptop, but thought if I can up the power of the router then I'd be happy. I don't need any other fancy bits
[18:10] <HazRPG> gregoryfenton: I'm just looking at cdrecord --help, and I've noticed the -cdi you mentioned, wouldn't that override the -xa1? Plus the cdirip changed the tracks to .wav and .iso
[18:12] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Really useful development app  Parasite - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/really-useful-development-app-parasite/
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> ooh, BBC4 looks interesting tonight
[18:13] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: elaborate? please.
[18:13] <Mez> Les Pounder?
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vl3h1 + http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00yb59m
[18:13] <Mez> anyone here know who that is?
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> Mez: brother of Quarter Pounder?
[18:14] <Mez> Dunno, apparently my connections come via here... popey ?
[18:14] <Mez> (you're a connection to both of us)
[18:14] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting,
[18:14] <popey> he is running ucubed
[18:18] <livingdaylight> gregoryfenton, Do I pick either VXWorks-killer or /prep? http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/support/router-database
[18:20] <livingdaylight> brobostigon, hi, do you know, one resets router to factory setting before pointing router to .bin file?
[18:21] <brobostigon> livingdaylight: i cant remember, it was along time  ago, when i did the install, i would suggest looking atthe instructions, onrespective fw website and or wiki,
[18:26] <Mez> popey: know who he is?
[18:47] <gord> geez ubuntu makes it hard to convert things to mp3 these days
[18:48] <gord> actually no i just can't figure out how to at all - i thought installing gstreamer packages would do it but no
[18:49] <KrimZon> everything I've tried has used lame
[18:50] <gord> oh well, there is an ac3 converting support at least - i guess my phone understands that
[18:51] <brobostigon> iwould be tempted to try ffmpeg to do conversion.
[18:51] <brobostigon> which i have successfully used before.
[18:52] <gord> vlc said libavcodec didn't have support, which means neither will ffmpeg
[18:53] <brobostigon> :(
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> \o/ medibuntu
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> it has proper encoders for non-free/evil formats
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> also.. banshee encodes to mp3 just fine (my phone)
[18:53] <gord> oh well, *moves MortalKombaaaaaaaaaat.m4a over to his phone to set as his new alarm*
[18:58] <Jibadeeha> gord, Sound Converter
[19:08] <gord> Jibadeeha, yes sound converter could not do it either
[19:10] <revmarkp> thanks for the welcome!
[19:11] <brobostigon> noswaith dda revmarkp
[19:13] <revmarkp>  i knew i'd find some strange jargon if i started using irc. Just had to look that up! good evening to you too.
[19:13] <brobostigon> :)
[19:14] <revmarkp> see i'm learning stuff already
[19:14] <brobostigon> sorry,
[19:14] <brobostigon> revmarkp: i am one of the chaps and gals that manage ubuntu-cym.
[19:15] <revmarkp> cool. do they do ubuntu-devonian (ooo-arrr)?
[19:15] <brobostigon> hehe
[19:46] <popey> Mez: 18:14:53 < popey> he is running ucubed
[19:54] <Myrtti> boo flu go away come back another day
[19:54]  * brobostigon has the flu he thinks here, allthe sympoms.
[19:55] <brobostigon> symptoms?
[19:55] <brobostigon> *
[19:55] <jgjones> gord, Sound Converter? No idea what format you're converting from
[19:55] <brobostigon> :(
[19:55] <gregoryfenton> Guys.. is it possible to either a) rename a virtual eth (eg eth0:0) to eth1 or b) make sshd output on a specific interface (eg no matter where the connection originates, reply on eth0:0)?
[19:56] <HazRPG> hmm virtualbox won't let me install windows 7 on it :/
[19:56] <Myrtti> brobostigon: run of the mill cough. congested nose, sneezing, popping ears and light temperature
[19:56] <HazRPG> keeps saying I should insert the win7 disc because the install appears corrupt - but I haven't installed it :S (also says it could be due to hardware change ?)
[19:57] <Myrtti> minor headache is there too, also muscle ache but I don't know if it's the flu or the fact I fell on my knee on Saturday
[19:57] <Myrtti> and the headache could be because I've not worn me glasses today
[19:59] <Myrtti> I don't mind feeling miserable but I dont want to give the bug to mum, she's in a condition bad enough already that they've canceled her treatments
[19:59] <Myrtti> well rescheduled until further notice
[19:59] <brobostigon> Myrtti: headache, back pain,hip pain, sore and or very dry throat, light headed'ness. here.
[20:00] <Myrtti> there's mycoplasm going around here in Finland
[20:00] <brobostigon> Myrtti: i think my mum has already caught it from me, has been feeling awful all day, aswell.
[20:00] <brobostigon> Myrtti: mycoplasm?
[20:01] <Myrtti> a nasty bug that needs special attention as no normal antibiotics work on it, can cause prolonged flu symptomps
[20:02] <brobostigon> Myrtti: so me having immuno-suppresants is maybe not a good idea,if its the same.
[20:03] <Mez> popey: that means nothing to me :D
[20:03] <popey> there is this thing called google
[20:04] <brobostigon> Myrtti: my eczema was infected bt somethingsimiler last year, and it was really bad.
[20:04] <Myrtti> brobostigon: human immune system is fairly defenseless against mycoplasmas anyway
[20:04] <HazRPG> Lunchie: sup dude :)
[20:05] <Lunchie> HazRPG: heya dude in woodsy wid phil
[20:05] <brobostigon> Myrtti: ohdear, hmm. let me make an appointment with my doctor then, because my eczema has had aninfection aswell.
[20:05] <HazRPG> Lunchie: cool, you using your phone or laptop?
[20:07] <AlanBell> Mez: he was at oggcamp liverpool
[20:07] <popey> Mez: is that video _really_ appropriate for planet ubuntu?
[20:07] <popey> psst: no.
[20:09] <Mez> popey: due to the language?
[20:09] <popey> you have to ask me?
[20:09] <HazRPG> am I missing something?
[20:10] <Myrtti> no
[20:10] <dutchie> Myrtti: +1
[20:10] <Myrtti> move along folks, nothing to see here
[20:11]  * brobostigon goes tow watch tv.
[20:12] <Myrtti> look, a kitten
[20:12] <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD8yLILzU2w
[20:12] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Meredith] Japan Disaster - http://www.sourceguru.net/japan-disaster/
[20:12] <Lunchie> HazRPG: iPod and free wifi
[20:13] <HazRPG> Lunchie: haha nice
[20:14] <HazRPG> Lunchie: Tell everyone I said hi. Who's about (other than Phil)?
[20:15] <Mez> popey: mind if I /msg you in your role as CC member?
[20:15] <andylockran> howdy all
[20:16] <Lunchie> HazRPG: did u see that ludicrous display last night (from phil)
[20:18] <HazRPG> Lunchie: I knew he'd say that
[20:20] <Mez> wow, ubuntu CC are active
[20:20] <Lunchie> HazRPG: lol
[20:20] <HazRPG> Lunchie: your barely online anymore... how's college going?
[20:21] <Lunchie> HazRPG: good man just got loaded cask
[20:21] <HazRPG> ah
[20:22] <NeoSilky> hello :)
[20:22] <HazRPG> Lunchie: you'll have to pull Dave about how the LUG is doing, since you see him about most
[20:22] <Lunchie> HazRPG: loving doing connect4 in c++ ATM
[20:23] <HazRPG> Lunchie: haha nice, we did noughts and crosses when we were doing that
[20:23] <popey> Mez: sure
[20:24] <NeoSilky> so what do all you guys do in your free time?
[20:25] <bigcalm> Play MineCraft
[20:26] <HazRPG> go to the pub
[20:26] <brobostigon> play openarena and tuxracer
[20:26] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[20:26] <bigcalm> Take pain killers
[20:26] <HazRPG> brobostigon: :P
[20:26] <gregoryfenton> jet around the world as a fedora ambassador :D
[20:27] <HazRPG> write websites from time to time... think about the next big money making thing... friends... meddling with electronics... that kinda stuff
[20:27] <brobostigon> wrting car controls.
[20:29] <gregoryfenton> gizza job brob:  while (!crashed){try_not_to_crash()} call_the_AA();
[20:29] <NeoSilky> best open source fps games\ games anyway? :P
[20:30] <jgjones_> How would I set xchat to reidentify with nickserv for nicks after a reconnection?
[20:30] <jgjones_> it seems my BT line keep reconnecting
[20:31] <gregoryfenton> jgjones http://docs.zetaboards.com/irc/xchat#auto-identifyingrun it with
[20:31] <gregoryfenton> jgjones http://docs.zetaboards.com/irc/xchat#auto-identifying sorry
[20:33] <jgjones_> gregoryfenton, thanks - I already do that for when starting up Xchat
[20:34] <jgjones_> but it seems that when I get disconnected and reconnected automatically while xchat is running, it doesn't reidentify my nick.
[20:35] <Mez> gregoryfenton: ooh, zetaboards :D I used to work for them :D
[20:36] <Mez> (volunteer)
[20:36] <gregoryfenton> jgjones /set net_auto_reconnect on
[20:37] <gregoryfenton> mez :)
[20:40] <jgjones> gregoryfenton, thanks, let's see if that sort it out, am fed up with seeing jgjones_, jgjones__, jgjones___ etc :)
[20:40] <gregoryfenton> it should be sticky across xchat sessions too
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> woo! working fingerprint auth on my laptop
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> that's the last device (that didn't work before)
[20:47] <zleap> is there a page for oggcamp 2011 yet
[20:47] <popey> no
[20:47] <popey> and yes
[20:47] <popey> more no than yes
[20:48] <daubers> 7heh :)
[20:48] <zleap> ok
[20:49] <zleap> we need some events like this in Paignton,
[20:49] <zleap> hint
[20:53]  * bigcalm chuckles
[20:53] <bigcalm> popey: this keyboard is amazingly clicky. Did your friend ever order any?
[20:57] <popey> not yet bigcalm
[20:58] <bigcalm> Glad I didn't wait then ;)
[20:59] <popey> hah
[20:59] <bigcalm> Tell him to get the supplier to double check orders before they ship though. They sent me a 104 key US layout :(
[21:01]  * brobostigon puts bbc4 on , to watch the prog MartijnVdS suggested earlier.
[21:01] <bigcalm> Micro Men?
[21:01]  * bigcalm is guessing without checking
[21:02] <zeratas> this is my first time on IRC is this the right place?
[21:02] <bigcalm> zeratas: This is indeed an IRC channel
[21:02] <zeratas> ok i was told to come here for some technical help lol
[21:02] <bigcalm> zeratas: the 'right place' is open to discussion though :)
[21:02] <zeratas> lol
[21:02] <bigcalm> zeratas: what's up?
[21:03] <zeratas> i recently have been having some problems with my wireless.. I'm using ubuntu 10.10 and recently my wireless has been acting weird. I could SEE wireless networks but couldnt actually connect to them
[21:03] <brobostigon> bigcalm: everything and nothing. it is called.
[21:03] <zeratas> I went to launchpad to see if they could help and when i did what they said, it made it worse lol, now my wireless doesnt work at all
[21:03] <bigcalm> brobostigon: no idea :)
[21:03] <zeratas> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-nettool/+question/149292
[21:04] <bigcalm> Ah. So far I haven't had any problems with wifi, so maybe somebody else will be able to help :)
[21:04] <zeratas> thats the original discussion from launchpad that made it act all wonky
[21:04] <zeratas> ha k
[21:04] <brobostigon> bigcalm: it is new.
[21:05] <zeratas> I tried resetting what he had me do on there but it seems that didnt change anything
[21:07] <zeratas> thank god in my dorm theres an ethernet connection lol
[21:14] <zeratas> so whos the king of this irc channel
[21:15] <popey> we have no kings or queens
[21:15] <popey> just loads of serfs
[21:15] <Azelphur> can I be the placeholder king?
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> yes master popey
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> :P
[21:15]  * popey puts Azelphur on the throne
[21:15] <Azelphur> woot
[21:15] <Seeker`> no queens? *cough*Gary*cough*
[21:16] <Azelphur> If gary is princess can I resign?
[21:16] <Azelphur> or queen, rather
[21:16] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: don't you want a pony?
[21:16] <Azelphur> true, I could do with the pony
[21:17] <mgdm> s/resign/abdicate/
[21:21] <zeratas> Oh!  Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
[21:21] <zeratas>       HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
[21:21] <zeratas> Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
[21:21] <zeratas>       is no basis for a system of government.  Supreme executive power
[21:21] <zeratas>       derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical  aquatic ceremony.
[21:24] <popey> you'll fit in
[21:25]  * AlanBell goes to update the governance documents to add swords
[21:25] <zeratas> lol
[21:26] <Myrtti> I just have an emp gun
[21:27] <Myrtti> with hello kitty stickers on it.
[21:27] <AlanBell> do you have a pond?
[21:27]  * Myrtti looks outside
[21:27] <Myrtti> does a huge pool of snow melting water count?
[21:27] <zeratas> how much snow? is it yellow?
[21:28] <Myrtti> good two feet, there are some yellow patches
[21:28] <zeratas> should be fine
[21:29] <Myrtti> I do have a cast iron bathtub
[21:29] <Myrtti> anyway
[21:29] <zeratas> is it seasoned?
[21:30] <Myrtti> with white enamel
[21:30] <AlanBell> you know you are a bit of a geek when you wonder about the effect of induced currents caused by firing an EMP cannon whilst in a cast iron bathtub
[21:30] <zeratas> connect a radio and a lightbulb to the bathtub lol
[21:31] <Myrtti> I bet I'd cause a good amount of havoc anywhere in this apartment, with the central heating on this 14 storey building
[21:31] <Myrtti> doesn't need to be in bathroom :-D
[21:32] <zeratas> haha
[21:33] <Myrtti> anywya, getting late here, ttfn
[21:33] <zeratas> adios
[21:33] <popey> in firefox 4...
[21:33] <popey> open any random website that has links on it
[21:34] <popey> hover over link, observe url displayed in bottom left of screen
[21:34] <popey> press CTRL+F to search the page, hover over link again
[21:34] <popey> observe url moves to the bottom right of the screen
[21:34] <popey> ?
[21:34] <hamitron> I hope that can be turned off :/
[21:35] <popey> i am guessing its a bug
[21:35] <ali1234> probably a side affect of writing the whole UI in a bizarro version of html
[21:35] <popey> hence the "?"
[21:36] <ali1234> cos we all know how well html works when you insert a new element into a page... right?
[21:37] <hamitron> is ff 4.0 any good?
[21:37] <ali1234> not really no
[21:37] <ali1234> you're better off using chrome, than a bad copy of chrome
[21:37] <ali1234> (or chromium)
[21:37] <hamitron> I was using ff 3.6, switched to chrome and thought it was better.... now switched back to ff 3.6 and feel it is better again
[21:38] <ali1234> 3.6 is better than chromium
[21:38] <ali1234> except for the speed and memory usage
[21:38] <ali1234> but then chromium is pretty bad for memory usage too
[21:38] <hamitron> especially with loads of tabs
[21:38] <hamitron> ;)
[21:38]  * brobostigon uses chromium everyday, and is very happy.
[21:39] <brobostigon> on my eeepc.
[21:39] <hamitron> I change daily atm :/
[21:39] <popey> Gah!
[21:39]  * mgdm uses Chrome on basically everything
[21:39] <popey> unity, right click "Rubbish bin" see menu item "Empty Trash.."
[21:39] <popey> why can we not get this right!
[21:39] <zeratas> i use ie6
[21:39] <hamitron> :))
[21:41] <hamitron> I wonder what life would be like, giving up the GUI for a month
[21:41] <gregoryfenton> install a ubuntu server on a VM
[21:41] <gregoryfenton> you'll soon find out
[21:41] <hamitron> I mena properly remove it
[21:42] <hamitron> mean*
[21:42] <gregoryfenton> server has no gui
[21:42] <ali1234> wrong. but w/e
[21:42] <hamitron> I reckon I'd end up talking on here all day
[21:42] <mgdm> I can be mostly productive without a GUI
[21:43] <gregoryfenton> here's me running a ubuntu server, it has no gui.  I can install X if I choose but it is by no means needed
[21:43] <mgdm> which is my much of my day is spent with a full-screen terminal on my 24" monitor, running vim :)
[21:44] <zeratas> i just started using ubuntu as my sole OS
[21:44] <hamitron> I may give it a go
[21:44] <zeratas> prob cause my windows crashed and i dont have a dvd to re-install it
[21:44] <gregoryfenton> welcome to the revolution zeratas
[21:44] <hamitron> no gui for a month :)
[21:44] <zeratas> haha
[21:45] <zeratas> when i get dvd's to burn an iso of windows im debating on whether im gonna go back or not SUCH A HARD DECISION
[21:45] <ali1234> i just realised something
[21:45] <hamitron> ali1234: ?
[21:46] <brobostigon> ali1234: that we rock?
[21:46] <zeratas> i saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to geicko
[21:46] <hamitron> shame on him if he has taken this long to work that out :/
[21:46]  * brobostigon prods hamitron 
[21:46]  * hamitron glares
[21:47] <ali1234> people who complain about consoles not having a mouse to play FPS are the same people who gush about console text editors like vi and emacs
[21:47] <hamitron> no mouse since when?
[21:47] <brobostigon> hamitron: i reckoned you commented on what i said,
[21:47] <Azelphur> ali1234: it's true, I gush about both
[21:47] <Azelphur> :D
[21:47] <ali1234> and it occured to me that editing code without a mouse pointer is somewhat like playing a FPS game on keyboard only: completely stupid
[21:47] <hamitron> brobostigon: yeh :)
[21:48]  * brobostigon prods hamitron some more.
[21:48] <hamitron> brobostigon: is I no right?
[21:48] <hamitron> ;/
[21:48] <ali1234> anyway this is what i thought of while considering "what would life be like without a GUI" : it would be like playing quake on a joypad: really really horrible
[21:49] <brobostigon> hamitron: i hadnt just realised it, i knew it all along,
[21:49] <hamitron> but why not use a mouse on the console?
[21:49] <brobostigon> hamitron: nopoint.
[21:49] <ali1234> because it only has the most basic of functionality
[21:49] <brobostigon> imho.
[21:49] <hamitron> technically, the mouse is a "point" ;)
[21:50] <mgdm> copy/paste on a no-X terminal is quite handy
[21:50] <hamitron> I must admit, I do like using a mouse to highlight stuff
[21:50] <hamitron> and gdm takes little memory
[21:51] <brobostigon> hamitron: why have the graphical need, to point and click on something, in a space that has no such thing?
[21:51] <hamitron> or gpm
[21:51] <hamitron> or something
[21:51] <mgdm> brobostigon: try doing copy/paste in a terminal without a mouse :)
[21:51] <hamitron> when editing files ofc :)
[21:51] <zeratas> ctrl+shift+click
[21:52] <mgdm> hamitron: well if you're editing a file in a sensible editor (like, for example, Vim...) you can highlight things fairly easily without a mouse
[21:52] <brobostigon> mgdm: maybe.fair point.
[21:52] <mgdm> but, in a shell, not really
[21:52] <ali1234> because the alternative is to memorize the keyboard shortcuts for efficiantly moving the cursor (which are different in every single program) or to press the up/down/left/right arrows a million times when you want to move around and edit things
[21:54] <hamitron> can you play video files on the terminal?
[21:54] <ali1234> yeah
[21:54] <brobostigon> hamitron: yes, vlc does terminal playback. insie terminal.
[21:55] <ali1234> mplayer is better on terminal
[21:55] <shauno> used to use aalib for that.  funny, but useless :)
[21:55] <hamitron> it use svgalib or something?
[21:55] <brobostigon> ali1234: either works,yes, :)
[21:55] <ali1234> uses whatever you want
[21:57] <ali1234> mplayer command line usage is a lot simpler than vlc... a *lot*
[21:58] <brobostigon> ali1234: i havent tried with mplayer, only vlc,but i knew mplayer did it.
[21:58] <hamitron> I just wasn't sure if it needed X
[21:58] <brobostigon> hamitron: no,it doesnt,
[21:58] <hamitron> I knew could display jpeg fine
[21:59] <popey> mplayer -vo caca <file>
[21:59] <hamitron> so my last hurdles are yahoo mail, and games
[21:59] <hamitron> :)
[21:59] <brobostigon> hamitron: mutt ?
[21:59] <hamitron> mutt supports yahoo?
[21:59] <brobostigon> hamitron: its supports pop3 and imap.
[22:00] <hamitron> I am cheap and have a free account
[22:00] <hamitron> :/
[22:00] <popey> imap.next.mail.yahoo.com
[22:00] <ali1234> so i just went on commandlinefu
[22:00] <ali1234> and they are being cute by saying "click here to grep the archive" in their search box
[22:00] <brobostigon> hamitron: yahoo used to provide free acess to pop3.
[22:00] <ali1234> but unfortunately their search engine does not support regular expressions
[22:00] <ali1234> so it's not greap
[22:00] <popey> :)
[22:00] <ali1234> so nice try, but sorry, WRONG
[22:01] <popey> hamitron: so you're "the guy" who still uses yahoo mail
[22:01] <hamitron> haha
[22:01] <hamitron> I would move, only too lazy to change all account details
[22:01] <hamitron> ;)
[22:04] <shauno> you can't setup a forwarding rule in ymail?
[22:04] <hamitron> says I need a yahoo plus account
[22:05] <hamitron> I used something called ypop (or something like that) a while ago
[22:05] <hamitron> but it never worked fully
[22:05] <hamitron> think it was because I had so much to download
[22:06] <popey> fetchyahoo - Retrieve mail from Yahoo!'s webmail service
[22:06] <popey>  FetchYahoo is a Perl script that downloads mail from a Yahoo! webmail account to a local mail spool, an mbox file, or to procmail.
[22:06] <hamitron> maybe worth a bash again
[22:06] <popey> worth a punt
[22:07] <hamitron> over 3000 mails all sorted into folders...
[22:07] <hamitron> the pain /o\
[22:11] <Azelphur> hamitron: can't you set forwarding for free?
[22:11] <hamitron> Azelphur: no
[22:12] <hamitron> my parents can on yahoo.co.uk
[22:12] <hamitron> :s
[22:12] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:12] <Azelphur> I've hated yahoo ever since they stole my domain and did other such nasty to me
[22:13] <hamitron> it is just the lack of pop3 or imap access that ugs me with them
[22:13] <Azelphur> also they published all my info when I was paying for protection :D
[22:13] <hamitron> :/
[22:13] <ali1234> yahoo has always been lame
[22:13] <Azelphur> yahoo are cool like that
[22:13] <hamitron> gmail weren't about when I started though
[22:14] <Azelphur> hamitron: gmail can import yahoo apparently
[22:14] <Azelphur> and gmail supports imap/pop/everything
[22:14] <ali1234> even back when it was run by two guys
[22:14] <hamitron> I have my gmail forwarding to yahoo atm
[22:17] <Azelphur> hamitron: so add your yahoo box to your gmail
[22:17] <Azelphur> gmail can pull from yahoo
[22:17] <Azelphur> aha
[22:17] <Azelphur> hamitron: change your location setting to yahoo asia to enable forwarding
[22:17] <Azelphur> you can thank me later :D
[22:17] <hamitron> seriously?
[22:18] <hamitron> :D
[22:18] <Azelphur> yup
[22:18] <hamitron> haha
[22:18] <Azelphur> hax.
[22:18] <hamitron> tbh
[22:18] <hamitron> I should really just setup stuff to go to a new address
[22:18] <Azelphur> hamitron: that's what I do, I have a slightly ridiculous forwarding chain
[22:18] <hamitron> same
[22:18] <hamitron> :)
[22:19] <hamitron> got a tree of forwarding, about 5 deep
[22:19] <hamitron> :/
[22:20] <Azelphur> same xD
[22:22] <hamitron> is it safer to use an email address with your own domain to sign in with you think?
[22:22] <Azelphur> huh?
[22:22] <hamitron> my main worry has always been, if yahoo decide to charge for the service
[22:23] <hamitron> or if google do, etc.
[22:23] <Azelphur> yea I worry about companies doing irritating things too that's why I own a domain
[22:23] <Azelphur> that way if company A annoys me I use something else
[22:23] <Azelphur> atm I use my own domain with google apps
[22:23] <hamitron> same
[22:23] <hamitron> :)
[22:23] <hamitron> well
[22:23] <hamitron> it forwards to my gmail one
[22:23] <hamitron> then it forwards to my yahoo ;)
[22:24] <hamitron> but it is a pain changing the account details for everything
[22:24] <hamitron> all games, places I order from, forums, etc
[22:25] <Azelphur> haha, I did that when I changed my name from CShadowRun...big job
[22:26] <hamitron> yeh
[22:26] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/970827-check-my-setup-before-i-buy.html cooling :3
[22:26] <hamitron> I keep wanting to change from hamitron, since someone else has started using it
[22:26] <hamitron> :)
[22:26] <Azelphur> I see
[22:27] <hamitron> I've never done water cooling
[22:27] <hamitron> I curse at the price of a £10 cooler
[22:27] <hamitron> ;)
[22:28] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:28] <hamitron> personally, I see no point in overclocking your comp until it is starting to feel slow
[22:28] <Azelphur> there's some guys on that forum that have my CPU running at 5.2ghz :o
[22:29] <hamitron> your comp is plenty....
[22:29] <hamitron> ;)
[22:29] <Azelphur> hamitron: I'm mean to my computer, I quite often expect it to play 3 games at the same time
[22:29] <Azelphur> on top of whatever else I might be doing
[22:29] <hamitron> 3 of what? ;/
[22:29] <Azelphur> 3 is normal, I've done 6 before :D
[22:29] <hamitron> eve online or soemthing?
[22:29] <hamitron> something*
[22:30] <Azelphur> hamitron: 3 is usually TF2 + WoW waiting in LFG Queue + Minecraft with my automagical free stuff machine
[22:30] <Azelphur> I did 6 wow's at the same time for a few months at one point
[22:30] <hamitron> I still think you have plenty for both them arrangements
[22:30] <hamitron> :)
[22:31] <hamitron> WoW is low end
[22:31] <hamitron> mc is just a memory hog
[22:31] <Azelphur> hamitron: my pidgin setup seems to be evil too, because I have it open a new window for absolutely everything
[22:31] <Azelphur> so I have 100+ windows open, that seems to make compiz not that happy
[22:31] <hamitron> so don't!
[22:31] <hamitron> ;)
[22:31] <Azelphur> "so don't" isn't a fix :D
[22:32] <Azelphur> but yea, apart from that I've always wanted to build myself a really nice PC :)
[22:32] <hamitron> imo, cheaper to build a 2nd comp, then use synergy
[22:32] <ali1234> more reliable too
[22:32] <Azelphur> I used to do that
[22:32] <Azelphur> ali1234: I DISPUTE YOUR CLAIMS!
[22:32] <Azelphur> synergy was buggy as crap that's why I stopped doing it
[22:32]  * hamitron is using synergy now
[22:32] <Azelphur> although the maintenance fork on synergy probably changed that now :)
[22:33] <hamitron> well, synergy plus ;)
[22:33] <hamitron> yeh
[22:33] <Azelphur> hamitron: it's synergy again now they merged back into the original
[22:33] <hamitron> oh
[22:33] <Azelphur> the dev came back out of the ether
[22:33] <hamitron> well, I not updated
[22:33] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:33] <Azelphur> but yea back when I used synergy it was really buggy and would dc for no reason and clipboard sync wouldn't work
[22:33] <Azelphur> and it was very frustrating, so I switched to separate X
[22:34] <Azelphur> and got a whole new bucket of bugs :(
[22:34] <hamitron> tbh, I do all my work on 1 PC, so not tried clipboard sync
[22:34] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:34] <dwatkins> silly ralink bug in my Eee
[22:34] <hamitron> I ahve main PC, and 3 slaves
[22:34] <Azelphur> I really want proper cross-card multi display for Linux
[22:34] <ali1234> for the money you'll get better performance from multiple normal computers than 1 super powered gaming rig
[22:34] <Azelphur> Then I'll be happy as a clam
[22:34] <ali1234> assuming multiboxing some MMORPG that is
[22:35] <dwatkins> bug 496093
[22:35] <ali1234> and assuming you'll be running linux
[22:35] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea but it's not the only thing I do
[22:35] <Azelphur> I just pick totally random stuff and expect my computer to be able to handle it while doing bunches of other totally random stuff
[22:35] <brobostigon> dwatkins: sothe fix it suggests, doesnt chane things?
[22:35] <ali1234> multiple commonodity PCs wins in just about every scenario these days
[22:36] <Azelphur> and I'd prefer it done as fast as possible rather than at a cost effective speed :)
[22:36] <hamitron> I really want to have xen with 2 graphics cards, each dedicated to 1 OS.... so each OS has proper hardware acceleration
[22:36] <ali1234> yay i made up a word "commonodity"
[22:36] <Azelphur> haha
[22:36] <dwatkins> brobostigon: the power command is not supported on my wifi adapter, still reading it all
[22:36] <Azelphur> hamitron: can you do that?
[22:36] <hamitron> yes
[22:36] <AlanBell> ali1234: that deserves to be a word
[22:36] <Azelphur> hamitron: does that mean I could sling another GFX card in my machine and game in a VM? lol
[22:36] <brobostigon> !lucid
[22:36] <hamitron> with the high end workstation nvidia cards
[22:37] <dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, I was just considering upgrading from the LTS release
[22:37] <Azelphur> oh, the quadro stuff
[22:37] <hamitron> with parallels workstation, yes
[22:37] <hamitron> there is something on the nvidia site
[22:37] <ali1234> seems to me that there is some kind of glass ceiling on linux 3d, at least with nvidia drivers
[22:37] <brobostigon> dwatkins: try an live usb, or similer, no risk test, with persistance, incase you need to add anything.
[22:38] <hamitron> but each card cost £800, and I needed a supported workstation for another £2000 on top of that
[22:39] <hamitron> ali1234: what makes you say that?
[22:39] <dwatkins> brobostigon: good plan, it's infuriatibg :(
[22:40] <ali1234> hamitron: because even the most simple scenes (like for example draw 1 triangle) cannot get above about 30fps even with the most powerful nvidia card
[22:40] <brobostigon> dwatkins: i know the feeling, i have a bug i have found in natty, with libdrm/xorg, that justdoesnt seem towant to be tracked down, because people keep on handing the bug around to different bug numbers.
[22:41] <hamitron> ali1234: I assume you are exagerating? ;)
[22:41] <ali1234> hamitron: somewhat
[22:41] <hamitron> because I get 40 fps ;)
[22:41] <Azelphur> I've seen a decent performance boost with wine gaming going from my 8800GT to the 570GTX
[22:41] <Azelphur> I play TF2 on all max now, I couldn't do that on the 8800
[22:42] <hamitron> I not tried linux gaming beyond my geforce 6600gt
[22:42] <Azelphur> and it can handle multiple games fine now, that just wasn't happening before
[22:42] <Azelphur> TF2+wow = fall over and die
[22:42] <ali1234> so what's your max framerate with only 1 copy of wow running and no compiz?
[22:42] <ali1234> and what is same with compiz?
[22:42] <Azelphur> dunno, I'll try now
[22:43] <hamitron> does running stuff under wine count?
[22:43] <hamitron> ;/
[22:43] <ali1234> sure
[22:43] <ali1234> or try this:
[22:44] <dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, it's a shame as the array.org kernel worked perfectly, so this all makes ubuntu look bad
[22:44] <ali1234> run some game that doesn't use 3d acceleration at all under compiz and "not compiz"
[22:44] <hamitron> I'll try on my geforce 6, hopefully beat Azelphur ;D
[22:44] <ali1234> eg quake benchmark mode
[22:44] <ali1234> compare framerates
[22:44] <Azelphur> lol
[22:44] <ali1234> now do the same thing with a graphics card which is supposedly "slow"
[22:44] <ali1234> eg any intel graphics
[22:45] <hamitron> or geforce 2 go?
[22:45] <hamitron> ;/
[22:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: I can compare the 8800GT and the 570 side by side they are both in the box
[22:45] <Azelphur> so I'll do it all
[22:45] <ali1234> something that doesn't use nvidia driver
[22:46] <Azelphur> :p
[22:46] <ali1234> last time i tried stuff like this my atom + gma 950 actually beat my P4 + gf6200
[22:47] <hamitron> gf6200 is not really any good ;/
[22:47] <ali1234> and gma 950 is?
[22:47] <hamitron> gma is newer
[22:47] <hamitron> isn't it?
[22:48] <brobostigon> dwatkins: i remember that kernel when i did my initialresearch about linux on eeepc. i never needed it on my eeepc 900 here. everything worked strsight out fine, which did surprise me, and xorg did work right on debian sid, and ubuntu maverick, untill natty.
[22:48] <ali1234> gma 950 is 2007
[22:48] <hamitron> but tbh, Azelphur's test to see if a better gpu is better, would mean more?
[22:48] <ali1234> so yeah 3 years newer
[22:49] <hamitron> you are comparing different drivers
[22:49] <ali1234> yeah
[22:49] <ali1234> point is people say "lol intel sucks you need nvidia"
[22:49] <hamitron> I don't agree
[22:49] <ali1234> but this isn't actually true at all
[22:49] <hamitron> yeh
[22:49] <ali1234> even though it is largely because nvidias drivers totally suck
[22:49] <hamitron> the new intel graphics are behind the new nvidia gaming chips ofc
[22:49] <ali1234> (yeah, that's what my test tests)
[22:50] <ali1234> no point buying a $500 GPU if the drivers suck so bad that it runs like a IGP
[22:50] <hamitron> the gf6200 is IGP ;/
[22:50] <ali1234> not really
[22:51] <ali1234> 6100 and 6150 is IGP
[22:51] <Azelphur> lol I think something is up with my 8800 tbh
[22:51] <Azelphur> I'm getting 2fps
[22:51] <ali1234> but here is the thing: the 6200 actually is more powerful than the gma 950
[22:51] <hamitron> :/
[22:51] <Azelphur> compiz off xD
[22:51] <ali1234> the problem is the drivers completely blow
[22:52] <hamitron> it would be interesting to see what modern gaming hardware could do, with decent software
[22:52] <hamitron> :)
[22:52] <dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, Ubuntu used to work great, then somewhere along the line the wifi driver got broken again, so I'm now downloading 10.10 with my Mac... ;)
[22:52] <hamitron> both for gfx drivers AND slimlineness of OS
[22:52] <brobostigon> dwatkins: more to the point, i have everyway of getting all the information needed, and would be happy to do it, as roughly  twice a day, the gpu just hangs/locks up, and only a forced restart will straighten it out. that is also a major bug.
[22:53] <ali1234> hamitron: there was a demo video released recently of some PC game with pretty much photorealistic graphics
[22:53] <hamitron> but it isn't in nvidia's interests to make their cards sold, run better.... they make more money selling you the upgrade
[22:53] <brobostigon> dwatkins: it should work better, the newer kernel, as more of the drivers are oss, and inside the kernel, nd dont need to be installed sepertly.
[22:54] <ali1234> it was released same time as the new unreal demo, and the new crysis engine demo, which both sucked
[22:54] <ali1234> anyone got link?
[22:54] <hamitron> ali1234: with normal drivers?
[22:54] <ali1234> depends how you define "normal"
[22:54] <ali1234> i mean sure they probably were the "normal" drivers
[22:54] <hamitron> the ones we are given :)
[22:55] <Azelphur> I'm typing blind :D
[22:55] <ali1234> if you're making a multimillion dollar game that is going to make people want to buy a new video card, then the video card manufacturers tend to be more responsive to bug reports
[22:55] <Azelphur> My 8800GT is doing like 2FPS haha
[22:55] <Azelphur> I can see it slowly scanning down the display drawing each line :D
[22:56] <Azelphur> gonna restart X to clear this \o/
[22:56] <hamitron> my voodoo2 runs faster
[22:56] <hamitron> ;)
[22:56] <dwatkins> thanks brobostigon - I chose 10.04 because I thought that being well established that version would be less likely to have issues with my Eee
[22:56] <ali1234> hamitron: here's the unreal demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgS67BwPfFY&feature=player_embedded
[22:56] <ali1234> it's not very good IMO
[22:56] <hamitron> I can't view youtube :/
[22:57] <ali1234> and this is the cryengine 3 demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHNWj8HmWwQ&feature=related
[22:57] <ali1234> also nothing particularly amazing
[22:57] <brobostigon> dwatkins: and then maybe try newer kernels ontop from th kernel teams ppa.aswell.
[22:58] <brobostigon> dwatkins: also remember, it is almost a year behind now, so you are missing a years worth of development,
[22:58] <ali1234> ah here's the game with actually good graphics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBu_tH8muq0&feature=relmfu
[22:58] <ali1234> battlefield 3
[22:58] <Seeker`> anyone know a lot about mpeg transport streams?
[22:58] <ali1234> Seeker`: i know a bit
[22:59] <Seeker`> when I play back a TS from a DVB recorder, at advert breaks the sound drops for a second, which I assume is it changing format in some way. How on earth do I detect these?
[22:59] <ali1234> ah
[23:00] <ali1234> good question :)
[23:00] <ali1234> i reported a bug dealing with aspect ratio changes in ad breaks
[23:00] <Seeker`> Ideally I would be able to process the file and generate a list of frames or timestamps where it happens
[23:00] <Seeker`> nono, not aspect ratio
[23:00] <Seeker`> :P
[23:00] <ali1234> it's the same thing - change in format
[23:00] <ali1234> mythtv can detect these changes
[23:00] <Seeker`> the audio thing happens whether or not there is an aspect ratio
[23:00] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:00] <hamitron> nn brob
[23:00] <ali1234> and gstreamer and mplayer can too since i bug reported it
[23:01] <brobostigon> night hamitron
[23:01] <Seeker`> ali1234: link to the bug report in mplayer?
[23:03] <hamitron> right, coffee time
[23:03] <hamitron> brain need
[23:03] <hamitron> ;)
[23:04] <ali1234> bug 521526
[23:04] <ali1234> bug 520091
[23:07] <Azelphur> ali1234 / hamitron pretty much same fps on both cards
[23:07] <Azelphur> compiz off yeilds a little FPS boost but nothing special
[23:08] <ali1234> and there you go :)
[23:08] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:08] <Azelphur> I was pretty sure when I upgraded my bottleneck was CPU though
[23:08] <Azelphur> games would always 100% a core on my q6600, they don't on my i7
[23:09] <Seeker`> ali1234: thanks
[23:09] <Seeker`> ali1234: can't find the svn commit associated with the fix :(
[23:09] <ali1234> Seeker`: well i dunno about that
[23:09] <ali1234> Seeker`: but look at the mplayer log
[23:09] <ali1234> mplayer -v
[23:09] <ali1234> it will tell you if the format changes
[23:10] <ali1234> then you can grep source for that message
[23:10] <ali1234> or just make your list based on the mplayer log
[23:10] <ali1234> or look at how mythtv does it
[23:10] <hamitron> Azelphur: what about glxgears?
[23:10] <Seeker`> ali1234: no idea where mythtv does it. But if i can find where mplayer does it, I'll have a better idea of where to start looking
[23:12] <Azelphur> hamitron: glxgears = "lol I'll just freeze"
[23:12] <Azelphur> multi X \o/
[23:13] <ali1234> quality software
[23:13] <Azelphur> ^
[23:14] <hamitron> how do i disable vertical sync for glxgears?
[23:15] <hamitron> is there a standard native linux gaming benchmark used?
[23:17] <ali1234> phoronix probably has something but it's nearly impossible to understand how it works
[23:19] <hamitron> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_2639_flip&num=1
[23:20] <ali1234> lol
[23:21] <hamitron> had to share
[23:21] <hamitron> :)
[23:21] <ali1234> considering that nouveau project doesn't even accept bug reports on 3d i have to wonder if that test is even worth anything
[23:21] <ali1234> i mean i can write a driver that would easily get 100 FPS on any graphics card running any software at all
[23:21] <ali1234> as long as you don't mind that it always displays a black screen
[23:22] <hamitron> ah, true
[23:22] <hamitron> :)
[23:22] <ali1234> but hey, that's phoronix for you
[23:22] <ali1234> pretty much every report they make is like this
[23:23] <ali1234> i notice there's no screenshots to prove that nouveau isn't just displaying a black screen
[23:24] <ali1234> "The most telling part is one comment in that thread that points out that  nouveau doesn't support things like AA/AF but the tests include them.  So while the binary nvidia driver is rendering everything beautifully  with all available features, the open source version is pushing out a  haggard shell of a render. That would give it a substancial speed boost.  Benchmarks need to be like-for-like."
[23:24] <ali1234> comment in phoronix forums
[23:24] <ali1234> so... yeah
[23:25] <ali1234> completely worthless unscientific test
[23:25] <ali1234> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?38442-Nouveau-s-OpenGL-Performance-Approaches-The-NVIDIA-Driver&p=185299#post185299
[23:27] <hamitron> well, I just assumed it was right
[23:27] <hamitron> ;)
[23:27] <hamitron> I was hopeful for all of a few mins
[23:27] <hamitron> then you ruined it
[23:27] <hamitron> ;D
[23:27] <ali1234> nouveau still don't even accept bug reports on 3d
[23:27] <ali1234> i think i already said that
[23:27] <hamitron> yeh
[23:29] <ali1234> after the first page the comments degenerates into ATI trolling :/
[23:29] <hamitron> fun while it lasted
[23:30] <hamitron> personally I can't see gaming ever been great in linux, till there are native games
[23:30] <hamitron> so I always hope it will come
[23:30] <hamitron> :)
[23:31] <ali1234> all the good PC games already run on linux
[23:31] <ali1234> (of which there are about 3)
[23:31] <hamitron> oh I like loads of games
[23:31] <hamitron> :)
[23:32] <hamitron> and until they all run, plus the high end ones run natively, still more to do
[23:32] <hamitron> although, with older windows games now not working on newer versions of windows, that may well attract some to linux
[23:33] <Seeker`> argh, this is why I hate trying to get involved in projects; people never answer any damn questions
[23:33] <ali1234> that won't work
[23:33] <Seeker`> spent 2 hours searching for stuff and found nothing
[23:33] <ali1234> Seeker`: read the source code
[23:33] <Seeker`> ali1234: where do I start? Any idea how many LoC there are in mythtv?
[23:33] <ali1234> whats a LoC?
[23:34] <popey> Line of Code
[23:34] <Seeker`> line of code
[23:34] <ali1234> oh
[23:34] <popey> apt-get source mythtv
[23:34] <popey> wc -l
[23:34] <ali1234> no, no idea at all
[23:34] <popey> :)
[23:34] <Seeker`> ali1234: one file alone has 4689 lines.
[23:34] <ali1234> that's ... not much code...
[23:34] <Seeker`> thats one file
[23:35] <Seeker`> there are many such large files
[23:37] <ali1234> mythcommflag = 13k lines
[23:37] <hamitron> hmmm, MS Windows is catching Ubuntu
[23:40] <Seeker`> ali1234: the .cpp files in libmythtv are 115l lines
[23:41] <Seeker`> *115k
[23:41] <ali1234> so? mythcommflag is all you care about
[23:41] <Seeker`> no, it isn't
[23:42] <Seeker`> what I want to do is try to add a new detection method, one that is based on the audio (which mythcommflag currently doesn't do)
[23:42] <Seeker`> I need to understand how I can work out where the audio format in the files change
[23:44] <ali1234> i doubt it is possible actually
[23:45] <ali1234> if the audio sample rate changed then you could
[23:45] <ali1234> i think what you actually need is a stream analyzer if you want to do it that way
[23:45] <ali1234> eg dvbsnoop
[23:48] <ali1234> not sure if that is even possible
[23:48] <ali1234> if you just want to do it based on volume then that's more likely to work
[23:49] <Azelphur> yay lost diamond pick thanks to minecraft downtime :(
[23:50] <Seeker`> ali1234: no, it isn't more likely to work
[23:51] <ali1234> there must be something you can catch eg if the adverts are in stereo and then the program is in DTS or something
[23:52] <ali1234> unless the DTS signal is encoded into the stereo signal
[23:55] <Azelphur> hmm, I'm trying to patch kupfer with this https://bugs.launchpad.net/kupfer/+bug/614796/comments/8
[23:55] <Azelphur> I grabbed the source from git and ran patch -p0 < 0001-Use-one-Kupfer-D-Bus-service-per-DISPLAY.patch
[23:55] <Azelphur> but it doesn't appear to work :(
[23:59]  * Azelphur pokes