brouschit is sad that mine is still the best answer http://askubuntu.com/questions/31244/how-to-install-python-2-702:37
brouschjcastro: props on ubuntu stack exchange. i've been finding many more answers on there lately. it's much better than forums since the best answers are at the top instead of at the end12:24
tjagodaOpinions on ATT+T-Mobile, anyone?12:30
rick_h_but makes sense, they use mostly the same tech, and both have failing 4g plans12:31
rick_h_and everyone said tmo would be next iphone carrier12:31
rick_h_but poor jcastro with his one carrier that does a discount if you own your own phone12:32
tjagodaIt makes much more sense than Sprint + Nextel12:34
tjagodaI am actually in the middle of quoting new wireless for work here12:34
rick_h_well, whenever one of these guys gets bought it makes sense12:34
tjagodaI was looking at T-mo and ATT12:34
rick_h_you're buying that spectrum that costs billions at auction12:35
rick_h_yea, we do verizon at my work12:35
tjagodaSprint/Nextel made the least sense because they use incompatible networks12:35
tjagodaeven still, the nextel network is a subset that sprint devices can't utilize12:35
rick_h_right, but they put out dual phones12:35
rick_h_and took over their spectrum they had12:35
tjagodaWhich is stupid12:35
rick_h_and bought their tech12:35
tjagodaWhich was old12:35
rick_h_bought their way into a lot of business users12:36
rick_h_which wasn't their core market when they started12:36
tjagodaI'll give you that one12:36
rick_h_it wasn't totally devoid of sense12:36
tjagodaI would say 80% devoid12:36
rick_h_it's not like they could afford to buy another carrier12:36
rick_h_but yea, the att-tmo thing makes sense from a lot of ways, but sucks that the anti-att could disappear12:36
tjagodaEverybody expects them to get bought up by Verizon now12:36
rick_h_sprint? I don't think they'd let it go through12:37
rick_h_that's the big thing now, "there's compeitition in the mobile market"12:37
rick_h_hard enough that tmo is going away12:37
tjagodabut really?12:37
rick_h_I don't think sprint could be allowed to go away as well12:37
tjagodaCan sprint really compete when ATT and Verizon are now huge giants with superior coverage and tech?12:37
tjagodaSprint, the only non-iPhone non-Torch carrier?12:37
rick_h_admit, was hoping they and tmo would get together, they've been the ones to compete on prices/speed12:38
rick_h_psh, torch?12:38
rick_h_they still make those?12:38
tjagodaTorch is sexy in business12:38
rick_h_we're a verizon place and I don't think there's 2 torches to put together12:38
rick_h_so I guess maybe if you're running your own BB servers12:38
tjagodaBlackberry Enterprise Server makes managing cellular devices a breeze, aye12:39
rick_h_but not without the forcing of BB down their throats it's not a sexy thing12:39
tjagodaBlackberry also has voice over wifi on their newest phones12:39
rick_h_tmo had that :(12:39
tjagodaIt's blackberry technology12:39
rick_h_I thought tmo had that on all their devices, some android ones had it12:40
rick_h_was a pain because it only worked on tmo even for phones that were on other carriers12:40
tjagodaT-mo are the only ones who support it so far12:40
tjagodaBut its cool because you can totally avoid buying a voice plan if you want12:40
rick_h_anyway, with the way ATT's been, it's not one ship I'd want to be on12:40
rick_h_glad I moved to verizon even if it means I get ripped over the coals for it12:41
rick_h_and once that 4g mifi gets out, going to be tough not to throw more $$ at them12:41
rick_h_we got in a mobile router to test out, had dual 4g usb devices on it for verizon12:41
rick_h_man, so fast12:41
tjagodaI see Verizon as the devil12:42
tjagodaThey are arrogant and huge12:42
tjagodaEven moreso than the Death Star12:42
rick_h_yea, that's originally why I left them and went ATT 7/8 or so years ago12:42
rick_h_but I'm back because ATT is the new evil power12:42
rick_h_talk about arrogant12:42
rick_h_"we don't need a good android phone for 4 years because we have the iphone"12:43
tjagodaThe verizon salesman I worked with literally said the following: "We are the most powerful wireless force in the universe, resistance is futile"12:43
rick_h_"we don't need to upgrade our 4g because it's not like the iphone supports it"12:43
tjagodaThose are totally valid statements unforunately12:43
rick_h_hey, drew me back to them after leaving them with pure hate in my blood years ago12:43
tjagodaI disagree with all of rick_h's hardware choices =P12:44
rick_h_heh, I waiting long/hard for ATT to get an android phone12:45
snap-lRemember when you had bandwidth to burn? You Will, and the company that will bring it to you? AT&T12:45
rick_h_I liked my wireless speeds/etc where I'm at12:45
tjagodaI don't care about Android12:45
rick_h_heh, good for you :)12:45
rick_h_some of us don't like to tether our phones or run BB servers12:46
tjagodais snap-l agreeing with me?12:46
tjagodaIf so, I am not used to this. =(12:46
rick_h_I'm not sure on that one12:46
snap-ltjagoda: AT&T's bandwidth caps are either one of two things12:46
rick_h_yea, I've got to check out those new caps on my u-verse12:46
tjagodaI don't expect them to last12:46
snap-l1) They're trying to get people to switch to U-Verse (since u-Verse isn't capped)12:46
rick_h_they're pretty high, but my wife is liking the netflix12:46
rick_h_no, it's capped, just 100gb higher12:46
rick_h_150 for dsl, 250 for uverse12:46
snap-l2) AT&T is a bunch of money-grubbing bastards that want to become the next iteration of the phone company12:47
snap-lOK, well, then #2 it is12:47
tjagodaThe only thing caps are trying to do is stomp out netflix and support their TV/Cable model12:47
rick_h_"only thing"12:47
tjagodaThe congestion crap is bullshit12:47
rick_h_ATT, known for really building out that network12:48
tjagodathey're trying to cover their profit model12:48
snap-ltjagoda: Not from a certain point of view. ;)12:48
rick_h_loved this one tweet I saw "Wait, ATT had 39 billion dollars and still didn't use it to up more cell towers?!!!!!!!"12:48
snap-lJust that the congestion is Netflix. ;)12:48
tjagodaNote that I was not defending the douchebaggery12:48
rick_h_referring to the 39B spent on tmo12:48
snap-lrick_h_: Cell towers are ugly. Nobody wants to live next to one12:48
snap-lthat's the big problem.12:48
snap-lI really hope A/L's little cell bricks take off12:49
tjagodaIn detroit they put WiMAX repeaters on phone poles12:49
tjagodaErh, Rochester*12:49
tjagodaBecause it's really easy to confuse Detroit with Rochester.12:50
snap-lDon't worry, if the emergency managers get their way, we'll all be one big happy Detroit.12:50
tjagodaI live 30 miles North12:51
wolfgerYou mean, "one big happy Amwayville"12:51
tjagodaIn a township12:51
tjagodaWith my own water supply12:51
tjagodaso I think I am safe for the moment =(12:51
snap-lHey, since the rest of the nation doesn't know about the suburbs, we should just make it so there aren't any.12:51
snap-ltjagoda: Not for long.12:51
* wolfger laughs and cries12:51
snap-leverybody's broke12:52
wolfgerI've been waiting so long for the official Froyo release12:52
wolfgerand this weekend I got a text from AT&T telling me it's available, and giving me a link to go to, to get it12:52
tjagodaMy township provides essentially no services12:52
wolfgerand I just went there12:52
tjagodaHow can they be broke?12:52
wolfgerand "The page you requested is not available"12:53
tjagodaFire, Police, and tax collection12:53
rick_h_poor wolfger12:53
rick_h_root, install gingerbread12:54
tjagodaNo more BBerry updates for me12:54
rick_h_why get excited for the latest 'froyo'12:54
tjagodaThe Tour is not BBOS 6 compatible12:54
tjagodaSomebody told me the other day that the Blackberry is going to end up more open than Android12:55
tjagodaI giggled, and then sighed because they'll probably be right. =p12:55
rick_h_hmm, where've I seen that happen before12:55
rick_h_oh that's right, every dying company ties to OS their stuff right before they fall into oblivion12:55
rick_h_"if we open it up right before we die, the community will save us!"12:55
tjagodaI don't think anybody could accuse RIM of opening up the OS12:56
tjagodaPretty sure he meant the other way around12:56
tjagodaWith Android slowly closing12:56
rick_h_tjagoda: what's that I heard? BBM on multiple platforms?12:57
rick_h_it's starting12:57
tjagodaThey're trying to get BBM to cover more bodies12:57
tjagodaand drag them into blackberry12:57
tjagodaHow could you read that as opening the platform?12:58
rick_h_because they're turning into a SaS company12:58
rick_h_they can't compete on the hardware/OS level12:58
tjagodaDisagree, love their hardware12:58
rick_h_they're going to be a freaking layer like HTC Sense, or Motoblur soon enough12:58
rick_h_k, see you at the end of 2012, see who's closer12:58
snap-lSo BB is going the way of the 3DO, then. :P12:58
tjagodaIn fact, many people love Blackberry hardware12:59
rick_h_ok, sorry...OS12:59
tjagodathe software has been the primary fault for most of it's life, yes =P12:59
rick_h_but let's face it, the storm hasn't been a touch screen genie12:59
snap-ltjagoda: These people who love the BB hardware... I do not think they are as numerous as you claim12:59
rick_h_I guess I mean that their touch hardware/interface stuff hasn't kept up at all12:59
tjagodaI would agree on the touch12:59
tjagodaThey don't even use the same league of technology on the storm series13:00
rick_h_90% of smartphones sold (non-BB) are black slab devices with touch interfaces as the primary one13:00
tjagodathe Torch has better touch capability than anything previous13:00
rick_h_the Droid Pro and palm pre being the exceptions13:00
tjagodaI like the Torch because it's a synergy between touch interface and traditional blackberry interface13:01
tjagodathere is no phone which I can more easily use one handed while driving than a tactile blackberry13:01
rick_h_soon you'll see stuff like "HTC SuperPowers, now with BB Services for business"13:01
tjagodaNo way13:01
tjagodanot ever in your life13:01
snap-ltjagoda: RIM better do something soon13:01
brouschyou should not use a phone while driving13:01
rick_h_it's their only way, software services baby13:02
snap-lEither dilute the brand, or step it up a notch13:02
rick_h_they can't even compete with consumers on price any more13:02
tjagodaThe Torch was their "catchup" device13:02
snap-leither way, they're strangling themselves ala Palm13:02
tjagodaIt had not new advances13:02
tjagodajust brought them within shouting distance of Android/iPhone13:02
rick_h_heh, catch up? did it really 'catch up'?13:02
rick_h_everything I saw says "nope"13:02
tjagodaThat's because you read Iloveandroid.com13:02
rick_h_have you seen their dev market?13:02
rick_h_ok, have fun, but someone here sounds like he's seriously in denial13:03
* rick_h_ whistles13:03
tjagodaYou judge a phone by it's app store?13:03
tjagoda..one device in to catchup mode?13:03
rick_h_I judge a computer by the apps it runs sure13:03
rick_h_come on, even BB knows it's in trouble. "We have a tablet...with a diff OS...and we're trying to run android apps on it"13:03
rick_h_"oh, and you have to dev for it in a totally diff way..."13:04
tjagodaTheir tablet has great reviews which show it surpassing performance of the iPad and playing flash13:04
rick_h_"but it's all cool, android is the fragmented one, come to the bright future of BB"13:04
tjagodaThey're certainly behind, but I highly doubt their dead13:05
tjagodaRIM can shit miracles like AMD can crap rabbits =P13:05
tjagodaThe whole bezel touch interface thing on the playbook is cool13:08
rick_h_heh, great review, no talk of apps/dev support, no battery life, no settings. That's the problem with this thing13:08
rick_h_"oh, it shows off very fancy in demo mode"13:08
rick_h_but nothing to real life usage13:08
rick_h_the question on how well this thing will work without a BB phone is still out there13:09
tjagodaYou are absolutely a zealot, sir =P13:09
rick_h_no, just anti BB :)13:09
tjagodaThere is no difference between that and what I just said13:09
rick_h_I don't think there's a compelling android tablet either, sucks13:09
rick_h_and don't feel a great need for any tablet to be honest13:09
tjagodaI would replace my netbook with a tablet if I had a tablet which could do more than just consume content13:10
rick_h_but when it comes to android v BB...unless your business has signed you up for BB server goodness, it's not even close13:10
rick_h_heh "I'd replace my laptop with a tablet if a tablet was a laptop"13:10
snap-lThe only reason that anyone uses BB is because of the enterprise integrtion13:10
snap-lif that were to suffer, the BB market would tank13:10
tjagodaNo disagreement there13:11
snap-lAnd if someone were to do enterprise better than BB, then BB would be inserious trouble13:11
rick_h_right, but in today's world of people bringing consumer devices into the enterprise...how can it not tang?13:11
snap-lThey've essentially taken on the role of Palm in this scenario: Do one thing and do it really well13:11
tjagodaI think you overestimate how many corporations allow that13:11
rick_h_you hear it over and over again, the big boss comes in with his fancy new toy13:11
snap-land of course we're all singing the praises of Palm now, aren't we.13:12
rick_h_heh, I had it happen to me man13:12
snap-ltjagoda: bullshit. :)13:12
tjagodaITW is a fortune 200 company and we have rules specifically /against/ that13:12
snap-ltjagoda: Some boss gets tired of carrying around the BB, and wants to start using his brand new HTC jismulator13:12
snap-lbecause it's just so freaking amazing13:12
tjagodaWe're a manufacturing company13:12
tjagodaI think you're overestimating the boss13:12
snap-ltjagoda: Tough13:12
snap-lThis boss is lord of the company13:13
tjagodaWe're run by financials13:13
snap-lhe makes more money in the toilet for the company than anyone else13:13
tjagodaThe company is the lord of the boss13:13
snap-lso you now have to get his HTC Jismulator working13:13
tjagodaWhat you are describing is the opposite of what actually happens here13:13
wolfger@tjagoda re: boss.... You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.13:13
snap-lAnd your company is the model for other companies?13:14
wolfgerIf the person you're calling "boss" can't get his way, then he isn't actually the boss13:14
snap-lI've seen it happen with just about every company that I've been a part of13:14
tjagodaNo, but you all seem to think that it's the same throughout all of the market, I was attempting to point out that it isnt13:14
snap-l"How do I get my Palm 7 to do e-Mail and access the intranet website"?13:14
snap-lLittle exception documents about "don't turn xx off, or you'll get the ire of one of the VPs"13:15
snap-lnever mind that the VP graduated to another section in the last millenia13:15
snap-lI'm sure there's a Domino server still running at Chrysler to support a few executives that have 6TB quotas that refuse to migrate to Exchange. ;)13:18
tjagodaWe have so much corporate rule and regulation that any manager short of VP doesn't really have the ability to make absurd executive claims13:19
snap-ltjagoda: I hope nobody in your executive area picks up PC Magazine13:20
snap-lOr you are in for a world of hurt.13:20
tjagodaAnd to be honest, unless it is financially justified in terms of a ROI, we practically never move platforms13:20
tjagodaso we'll be BBerry until everything else is shit cheap, or otherwise13:20
snap-lThat day is coming13:21
snap-lAre you on exchange?13:21
tjagodaYes and no13:21
snap-lexpect Microsoft to make inroads for Windows phone 713:21
tjagodaI don't feel a threat from WinMo 713:22
tjagodaespecially with all the shit in the media about it13:22
snap-lYes, but if the handsets are cheaper, and doesn't require the infrastructure to support it like it does with the BB, you'll be looking into it13:23
snap-lUnderstand, you're not making the decisions; finance is. ;)13:23
tjagodaWith all the data they eat they wouldn't be cheaper in the foreseeable future13:23
snap-land Microsoft has a _very_ nice lunch budget.13:23
tjagodaMost of our blackberry users are sub 100 MB of monthly data consumption13:24
tjagodaThat's like breakfast for a WinMo713:24
brouschi just convinced the boss to get his own android13:25
brouschit took about a year to finally convince him to get rid of his ancient palm pilot13:25
tjagodaWe essentially do not restrict personal calls or text messaging13:26
tjagodaso for the most part my BBerry user base is content13:26
brouschwithin a month we will have 3 company androids13:26
tjagodabecause we've shut up any possible complaint by giving them free shit13:26
snap-ltjagoda: So, when the revolution comes, you'll be completely blindsided. ;)13:29
snap-lGood, keep it that way. ;)13:29
tjagodaThe market can be turned in favor of blackberry as quickly as it turned them out of favor13:30
tjagodawe shall see =P13:30
snap-lI'd wager you on this, but I'm not doing so well with my other prognostications. :)13:30
brouschthere are ways they could survive13:30
tjagodaThey may have been waiting for the last 5 years listening to complaints of people with droids and iphones13:30
tjagodawho knows13:30
brouschin the construction field, we need a tough tablet that can work with autodesk stuff13:31
brouschi'm sure there are similar needs in other fields13:31
brouschif they can get into those niches they could survive13:31
brouschthey have to move fast though, before ipad apps for these things are developed13:33
jrwrenSOX probably says that those execs have to keep their 6TB of mail.13:42
tjagodaI hate SOX with such a passion.13:43
snap-ljrwren: SOX can go die in a fire.13:43
wolfgerSOX.... those mandatory meetings I have really no recollection of whatsoever.13:43
wolfgerGotta love overhearing "use some common sense" at work...13:58
wolfgerand then the less-politically-correct ranting that ensues after he hangs up the phone. :-)14:00
rick_h_and here's the master plan, all about spectrum/4g: http://www.androidcentral.com/att-targets-t-mobiles-current-3g-spectrum-expanded-lte-capacity14:05
rick_h_tjagoda: ^14:05
rick_h_back to your original question on thoughts of tmo/att14:05
tjagodaExpanding coverage and quality14:10
tjagoda95% of the US Population14:11
tjagodaI wonder how much of that number is lie14:11
greg-gabout 95%14:12
brouschthe 95% is not the lie, it is the definition of "coverage"14:13
brousch * if you get 1 bar of 2G for 1 second out of each minute on a clear and sunny night, you're covered!14:14
brouschhm, clear and sunny night14:14
tjagodaYou live in a special place14:15
snap-lsounds like insurance. ;)14:15
brouschoh, and you have to stand on your roof14:15
snap-l"You were covered up until your car lost signal and crashed into that light pole"14:15
brouschi suppose clear and sunny nights occur in the arctic circle14:16
tjagodaso 95% of canada is covered?14:17
brousch95% of canadians14:17
brouschonly like 5% of canada is settled, right?14:18
wolfgerwhich is a far cry from 95% of US population14:18
tjagodaOnly about 50% of Canada has never been settled14:19
snap-ls/settled/had a tim hortons built on it/14:19
brouschpine trees and frozen tundra14:19
tjagodaMmm Tim Hortons.14:20
brouschmmmm, tim hortons. the best thing to come out of canada14:20
wolfgerTim's == civilization14:20
rick_h_no, it's no good once it leaves canada14:20
snap-ljcastro: That link above is for you.14:20
tjagodaTim Hortons is greater than Insulin?14:20
snap-lBetter yet,14:20
snap-ljcastro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ammqvMoE0_s14:20
wolfgerrick_h_: Michigan is part of Canada, really14:21
brouschi used to walk across UM to get food at tim horton's14:21
rick_h_ok, well the one next to me sucks14:21
rick_h_at least snap-l convinced me that it's better closer to canada14:21
wolfgerHmm. Perhaps there's only a certain distance inland...14:22
snap-lIt is14:22
wolfgerI have always lived close to the border14:22
snap-lPort Huron's Timmies is like fucking mana from heaven14:22
snap-lthe one across to me is complete shit14:23
brouschwtf, the west side finally got a tim hortons, and it's in holland?!14:23
wolfgersounds like they need better corporate oversight on the franchise14:23
snap-lbrousch: Heh14:23
snap-lbrousch: And it's probably near Hope14:23
brouschyeah, less than a mile i think14:24
brousch2 blocks, so 1/4 mile?14:24
jrwren95% of the us population is easy given that you can get that simply by covering top N urban areas.14:25
jrwrenits when that population travels taht its harder.14:25
jrwrenwhat does it even mean to cover a person?14:26
jrwrencover them at home? at work? when they are everywhere they might be.14:26
jrwrenthat 3rd one is what they don't do.14:26
rick_h_I hate people that can't do proper inline replies in email14:26
rick_h_makes life so hard14:26
rick_h_rant rant14:26
brouschut oh, rick_h_ is running out of unique rant material and relying on rants as old as the web?14:27
tjagodaTim Hortons quality is directly proportional to how close it is to the motherland14:27
jrwrenjust reply wiht "I can't understand to what you are replying. Could you either try again with correct inlines, or form complete thoughts and sentances. k, ty, bai"14:27
rick_h_no, so he kind of did it using html reply with colored response14:27
rick_h_so now when I hit reply, mutt's confused and merged his comments with mine, and he added his giant company "This message is only for ..."14:28
rick_h_at the top of the reply14:28
rick_h_just a mess14:28
jrwrenI thought outlook does that.14:28
jrwrenit really only works with other outlook replies and trashes the plain text reply.14:29
jrwrenhate that.14:29
rick_h_ah, that explains it then14:29
jrwrenits 2011 and email still doesn't work.14:29
greg-gyeah, there is one person who is on a bunchof mailing list I'm on who tries to do inline, but his first line of his comment always starts with a ">" thus I miss it sometimes14:29
brouschjrwren: and it sounds like it's MS's fault ;)14:29
rick_h_because it's 2011 and people want their custom font signatures ugh14:29
jrwrenthis is a case where I actually like gmails' less is more14:29
snap-lI just say "Please put your reply in a Word document"14:30
jrwrensimply don't allow that b.s.14:30
snap-land then reject it14:30
rick_h_I'm rewriting the message, fortunately things like mutt/vim and gq command helps a ton14:30
tjagodaPut you reply in a word document14:31
tjagodaI'm sending you an email which is 50% HTML, 50% plain text14:31
wolfgerjrwren: if you live and/or work inside a covered area, you are covered. So... not as impressive as it sounds to cover 95% of the population.14:31
jrwrenwolfger: exactly.14:31
rick_h_greg-g: you see CHC in AA tonight?14:33
rick_h_their new "monday" thing14:33
brouschis it also an ubuntu hour?14:33
tjagodaEvery hour is Ubuntu hour.14:34
wolfgerjrwren && rick_h_: Let's not forget the people^h^h^h^h^h^h^h managers who will send you an e-mail simply saying "fyi" or "please respond", followed by a dozen e-mails worth of top-posted replies, each of which are greater than one screen-height in length.14:34
tjagodaWhat's wrong with that?14:34
greg-grick_h_: yeah, saw that. I know Cory Kaufman from the School of Information14:34
rick_h_greg-g: awesome14:35
tjagodaDoes he have a relative named Sara?14:35
brouschi need to point my boss to this conversation. he does not believe me when i tell him that cannot be fixed14:35
rick_h_brousch: yea, when I first started my boss warned me14:36
rick_h_because I was handling his replies all nice and bottom post/cleaned up like14:36
rick_h_"just fyi, people here don't know the email ettiquette so you'll get a lot of top posting and confusing replies"14:36
rick_h_lead by example I guess :)14:37
tjagodaI think if I tried to do anything other than top posting, everybody here would be confused and just stop reading my email.14:37
brouschwe will have a long thread between 3 or 4 parties regarding contractual changes and then my boss gets a forwarded copy of the whole gob at the end14:37
brouschthen he prints it out and shuffles sheets of paper around to get it in some sort of order14:38
wolfgerEvery once in a while people here will reply almost-correctly to an e-mail. But they insist on doing it by making the reply text a different color.14:38
wolfgerSo if it happens more than twice in a single thread..... taste the rainbow.14:38
greg-gbrousch: ohman, that is so sad14:42
wolfgerkill me. kill me now.14:42
brouschmy arms are too short!14:42
wolfgerJust overheard "everything should be on the cloud, anyway"14:42
rick_h_nice, now ask them to define "cloud"14:43
snap-lcloud = Not on my budget14:43
_stink_yeah, i've wondered if other people bottom post at work14:44
snap-lsomeone else should pay for it, I just get to use it14:44
_stink_if i did that people wouldn't know wtf i was doing14:44
snap-lI've given up bottom posting in Outlook14:44
snap-lit just doesn't work.14:44
_stink_'hay you didn't write anything'14:44
rick_h__stink_: as long as I trim the original and make sure I do it well, it's not like peoepl can't figure it out14:44
wolfgernow same person is off on an Apple fanboy tirade about how Jobs is a tech genius14:44
rick_h_I mean, you don't leave 100 lines of crap and reply one line at the bottom14:44
snap-lrick_h_: Says you. ;)14:44
rick_h_snap-l: yep, says me :P14:45
_stink_rick_h_ always takes the high road.14:45
snap-lI quote 1000 posts in Usenet just to add "blow me"14:45
snap-ler, 1000 line posts14:45
rick_h_sometimes I do feel like 90% of my job is 'lead by example'14:45
snap-lYou're the RMS of your workplace. ;)14:45
rick_h_'look, here's some nice comments, didn't you find those helpful? You should try that.'14:45
rick_h_'Oh look, you ask about that, and over on our docs server, under my project name, is a doc on that...isn't that cool?"14:46
* snap-l really shouldn't bait rick_h_ like that, since he does know where I live.14:46
rick_h_snap-l: heh, I have to be careful, you edit the postcasts14:46
rick_h_I don't always listen to every minute of every one14:46
rick_h_and you have commit rights to bookie :/14:46
snap-lYay, we have a cold war. ;)14:46
* rick_h_ is rethinking the shared repo...forking ftw? 14:47
snap-lrick_h_: Perhaps14:47
snap-lWould keep me from screwing up the repo every other push14:47
rick_h_well, learning is best done painfully14:47
wolfgerthe more it hurts, the better you remember14:47
snap-lI see git like a slot machine14:47
snap-levery time I pull the repo, I see if it blew things up. ;)14:48
snap-lYipes... Kraftwerk's "Expo 2000, 2001 mix" just popped on14:49
snap-lI think I suddenly feel sorry for anyone that lived under us14:49
snap-ler, sorry, Kling Klang Mix 200214:50
binbraintodays groupon, half off botox, score15:24
rick_h_I know it's the hater in me, but 3rd article I've seen on it: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/macbook-pro-2011-owners-complain-of-hard-freeze-problems/1195315:33
rick_h_must be all that thunder inside :P15:33
greg-gI love it15:34
rick_h_so let's go all out, it's apple's strategy to keep you from overloading your system15:34
rick_h_then you realize all you do you can do on an ipad15:34
* brousch channels Steve Jobs: "All laptops have this problem. You're just setting it wrong. Free cooling pad for all!"15:34
rick_h_shipping costs go way down, and they can put out a new one every year, win!15:35
rick_h_ok, crazy hating over, back to work :)15:35
brouschapple's newest best seller: $150 cooling lap pad15:35
snap-lbrousch: You're doing it wrong15:36
brouschit's an aluminum sheet with ultraquiet fans and a perfectly contoured velvet cushion for your legs15:36
snap-lthe Apple air-conditioned tent15:36
rick_h_heh, "Steve: we can't ship this, the fans are too loud"15:36
snap-lWhy sell a $150 hack, when you can sell an entire experience15:36
rick_h_engineer: "So his test is 4:32 long, don't kick fans on until 4:40 and he'll never notice"15:36
brouschthe fans blow the air onto your genitals to make sure you have a happy feeling15:37
rick_h_"it'll lock up, but we'll be on our way to the lab by then"15:37
snap-likea desk, and a quiet AC unit15:37
rick_h_ooh, in all white, I Like it15:37
rick_h_with magnet cover15:37
rick_h_they're going to need bigger stores15:37
brouschwhy? one desk won't take up much space15:37
rick_h_no, you have to deck the place with different colored desk covers to get the full skittles effect15:38
brouschit's all white and aluminum and black now15:39
snap-lMan, you guys lack imagination15:41
snap-lThe Apple Hyperbaric chamber15:41
snap-luse your Mac in quiet contentment15:41
rick_h_naw, you can't show off to other people and they can see you use it15:41
snap-lThey'll just see the giant Apple logo outside.15:42
snap-land wish they could participate.15:42
brouschi want people to see my face while i use the apple. that way they can see my superior smugness and know that i am awesome. i don't want to hide away in some cave15:51
snap-lThat's why it'll be transparent15:54
brouschah, excellent15:54
snap-land it'll also have the iBoombox15:54
brouschmake it so15:54
snap-las an added feature15:54
snap-lso you can listen to superior sound in your hyperbaric chamber.15:54
snap-lall the whole cooling your environment so your computer may be content15:55
brouscha little fold-up tent to place over my starbucks table?15:55
snap-land it'll also have an iSlanket option as well15:55
brouschthat is awesome15:55
brouschlockable door15:55
snap-lYeah, it'll signal the return of the Apple iPod HiFi15:57
=== jjesse__ is now known as jjesse
jrwrenwhat is the _ convention for private in python?  v. __ ?16:42
jrwrenis that pep8 ?16:42
rick_h__ is for private16:43
rick_h___ is for magic methods16:43
jrwrenmagic methods eh? what does that mean?16:44
rick_h_http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ Naming Conventions section16:44
rick_h_mainly interface type things16:44
rick_h_so to implement something as a context manager you implement the __enter__ and __exit__ methods16:45
* rick_h_ 's new favorite thing16:45
jrwrenoh, that kind of magic.16:46
jrwrenwhose context manager?16:46
rick_h_ugh, far down are the examples16:47
rick_h_basically provides a wrapper around a section of code with really pretty syntax sugar16:47
rick_h_using the `with` statement/keyword16:47
rick_h_more 'I'm using it now like this' example16:48
jrwrenoh right, "with"16:49
jrwrenwith is very cool.16:49
jrwrenits like C#'s using, only even cooler16:49
rick_h_yea, and you can write custom `with` things by implementing its two magic methods16:49
rick_h_so anyway, magic methods hook into existing syntax usage, without subclassing/interface defining16:50
rick_h_you just do some stuff and magic happens16:50
jrwrensounds like an implicit interface.16:51
rick_h_anyway, all methods used for that start/end with __16:52
rick_h_love it: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/03/21/python-hpc/16:55
snap-lI love it when I think of a song in my head, and it's something that I've played on OMC16:57
snap-lrick_h_: Python is replacing Fortran, afaict.16:57
rick_h_yea, just love the last line "notice the lack of ruby, java... :)"16:57
jrwrenruby I can see.17:13
jrwrenbut java is not a poor performer, nor is perl.17:13
jrwrenposts like that are just dogmatic idiocy17:13
binbrainhmm, looking up "implicit interfaces" for c#, doesn't seem to be anything "implicit" about it???17:15
jrwrennope, nothing implicit17:16
jrwrenwell, you don't mark which methods implement the interface, its implicit by matching signature.17:17
jrwrenas opposed to explicit interface impl. go look that up :)17:17
binbrainso basically some inference needed17:17
rick_h_it's all relative17:18
binbrainrick_h_: real interface support now in Pyramid, wonder if people will them now, I don't mean ABCs either17:20
binbrainwill <use> them17:20
rick_h_binbrain: nope, people aren't happy to see them there for the most part17:26
rick_h_it's 'zopish'17:26
snap-lgreg-g: Opinion, please, if you have a chance: http://openmetalcast.com/2011/03/21/license-mix-up/17:26
snap-lupdated a bit17:29
greg-gSo, since you only hold the rights to the content you create, you are in effect only licensing your intro/outro/commentary/interviews. You aren't licensing the music that is already made available under some other license. ...17:31
snap-lOh, so I could keep it BY-NC-SA?17:31
snap-leven with By-NC-ND?17:32
greg-gWhat you can say is: "All OMC-original content is licensed XXX while each song in this podcast is available under the terms listed below" then list each song title and their license17:32
greg-g(ugh lag)17:32
snap-lAh, OK.17:32
greg-gthen it is explicit about what parts are licensed how17:32
snap-lquick question, while I have you here.17:33
snap-lIf I use a song clip , and speak over it, am I creatinv a deriv?17:33
greg-gyeah :/17:33
greg-gactually, only *maybe*17:34
snap-lso what I'm doing for lococast is derivs, then?17:34
greg-gcome on lag!17:34
greg-glemme think....17:34
snap-lI'm not remixing the material17:34
snap-lonly lowering the volume and speaking over it like I would on the radio17:34
greg-gso, in the license it has "For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a musical work, performance or phonogram, the synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a moving image ("synching") will be considered an Adaptation for the purpose of this License."17:35
greg-gthat only mentions music+video, of course17:35
snap-lof course. :)17:35
greg-gso.... as your pro-bono non-legal legal advice, you are OK.17:38
snap-lThanks. :)17:38
greg-gI don't think it would be deemed a derivative and even if it was, your use would deinitely be considered a fair use17:38
snap-lI figured this was back-of-the-envelope. :)17:39
greg-gdamnit, this channel is logged17:39
* greg-g creates #ubuntu-us-mi-offtopic17:39
snap-lI won't hold you to any opinion.17:39
rick_h_take it to bookie, I can't even get ops back in there so you're safe17:40
snap-lHonestly, though, I don't want folks cutting up the episode to get the music out of it17:41
snap-lI'd rather they get it from the artists themselves.17:41
snap-lI'm not creating mixtapes. ;)17:41
brouschwhat if he sings along with the music? or makes instrument sounds with his mouth?17:42
snap-lI'm also curious about CC-licensed covers of popular songs17:42
snap-lI'm of the mind that even if the performance is CC, that ASCAP / BMI are still able to collect dues.17:43
greg-gright, covers are derivatives of something, either the original recording, or the lyrics, or the musical score, or all 3 (and each has separate copyright)17:44
snap-lYeah, that's why I stay away from covers17:44
* greg-g nods17:44
snap-leven though there's one of Rick Astley that I desperately want to play. ;)17:44
greg-gbrousch: can I use the oft-used lawyer refrain? "it depends" :P17:45
greg-gsnap-l: awesome, linky?17:45
greg-gI might regret saying this, but, this isn't half bad17:47
snap-lYeah, it's pretty good17:47
snap-lbut it's still Astley17:48
snap-lie: his licenses.17:48
brouschrick_h_: what was your favorite pycon presentation? i have a few minutes to watch one19:13
rick_h_check out the disqus one19:13
rick_h_for pure fun, the one with the old computer, audio xxx19:13
brouschdisqus sounds better19:14
rick_h_it's not19:15
rick_h_but disqus is cool19:15
snap-ldisqus makes Jesus cry19:16
jrwrenjesus is a cry baby19:17
rick_h_everyone watch that, it's the most raved presentation of pycon19:17
snap-lYeah, that's definitely on my radar19:18
snap-lmostly because I actually used a Superboard at one point19:18
* snap-l wishes he had one. ;)19:18
brouschtoo late. started disqus19:18
rick_h_the one about the telescope array was highly rated19:21
rick_h_dropbox had a great one19:21
rick_h_but their plenary was ugh19:21
binbrainrick_h_ I really enjoyed "The Python that wasn't" http://blip.tv/file/488100619:37
rick_h_cool, haven't heard about that one/seen it19:37
binbraingood overview of the PEPS that have been rejected and why19:38
greg-gI need some good working music, what is everyone listening to?19:44
rick_h_heh, hans zimmer, probably not a good suggestion19:44
greg-goh, movie scores? interesting :)19:45
rick_h_yea, big fan since backdraft soundtrack19:46
rick_h_did all the pirates of ... movies19:46
rick_h_latest batman19:46
greg-gyeah, might check out some classical actually19:46
snap-lI just got a drive-by phone call from a friend from college.19:52
snap-lAlso playing with Beautiful Soup19:54
snap-lwhich is the most awesome named library for XML parsing ever19:55
rick_h_yea, very handy19:59
brouschrick_h_: superboard talk was some crazy wtf stuff20:24
rick_h_brousch: isn't it20:48
rick_h_not all that educational, but just pure fun/wow20:48
brouschi'm a little afraid of that guy now20:48
brouschdefinitely awed20:48
brouschi love that he ported a bunch of stuff to python3 to get it done, so it's not just a waste of time20:49
rick_h_oh yea, definitely learned a few things for sure20:53
rick_h_I love his line "take away all the fun from a project and you're left with deployment"20:53
rick_h_that was a big OH while at pycon20:53
brouschdoes celery  do the same thing as 0mq?21:01
brouschtime for grpug. laters21:05
snap-lBah, copypasta21:17
rick_h_hah, awesome21:26
snap-lSorry, but who thinks of these things?21:30
rick_h_heh, "what happens when you raise a bunch of money for a bunch of college kids who don't know a lot of programming?"21:31
snap-lrick_h_: ++21:31
rick_h_wooo! hopefully they're taking design classes next semester21:31
rick_h_but this just came out?21:31
snap-lHopefully they learn a thing or two about disparate systems21:31
rick_h_so much for release early/often/iterate21:31
snap-lI think it's just someone noticing this21:32
snap-lrick_h_: Um, did you forget to post something?22:04
snap-lfor lococast? :)22:04
rick_h_snap-l: yes :)22:04
rick_h_todo for tonight22:04
rick_h_have the boy22:05
rick_h_meant to do it last night but caught up with bookie22:05
rick_h_well, tough, have multiple todo/loves22:05
rick_h_AZ!!!!!!                      Zvb zcx               z22:06
rick_h_ dczxz22:06
rick_h_says michael22:06
snap-lrick_h_: Oh, I'm not being accusatorial22:06
snap-lJust fell off of my radar as well22:06
rick_h_snap-l: yea, I was "I just want to push this one bookie fix...and then I'll do the foord post"22:13
rick_h_and well, hours tend to go by when I say that I realize now22:13
rick_h_DBO snap-l you guys up for thurs interview 8:30pm?22:15
rick_h_speaking of stuff I need to get going22:16
snap-lrick_h_: I think that'll work22:16
rick_h_cool, will work on notes/etc after I get foord out :)22:17
rick_h_snap-l: ok, out and emailed Michael to let him know23:40

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