hajourtill tomorrow all00:26
hajourcharlie-tca,  have you time for pm i am so angry01:45
=== API is now known as apinheiro
PendulumRiddell: when you tried Orca in Natty were you using Unity?12:01
Pendulum(on Gnome, I mean)12:01
RiddellPendulum: no12:02
Pendulumhmm... okay12:04
Pendulum(I"m trying to think if I know anyone who has tested Orca in Natty on non-Unity. I may have to go check that now)12:05
hajourPendulum, i dont work now official i promised not to work now you see.but if it is not a to heavy program i would gladly want to help testeing it13:04
=== apinheiro is now known as apinheiro_lunch
=== apinheiro_lunch is now known as apinheiro
=== erkan^ is now known as erkan_
=== erkan_ is now known as erkan^
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
apinheiroPendulum, about unity and orca, if you are using at-spi16:18
apinheirotoday I applied the solution to this bug16:19
ubot2Launchpad bug 739689 in unity "[a11y] Launcher a11y support works with at-spi2 but not with at-spi" [Undecided,Fix committed]16:19
apinheiroso I guess that it is not included in any package16:19
apinheiroanyway, right now16:19
apinheiroonly the launcher and the panel has a testable orca support16:19
apinheirobut I would appreciate any feedback16:19
Pendulumcharlie-tca: ^^16:20
charlie-tcalooking at it16:20
Pendulumapinheiro: thanks for the heads up :)16:20
apinheiroPendulum, thanks to take care of it16:21
charlie-tcaI don't see anything to be done there, just one more bug against unity for us16:21
apinheiroone of the thing we were worried what about testing from other people16:21
charlie-tcaYes, we need to know what is broken, but that one already says it has a fix 16:21
charlie-tcaI think TheMuso has the right idea, forcing a fallback to 2d for accessibility16:22
charlie-tcaapinheiro: where did you get information that natty will use at-spi2?16:23
charlie-tcaI still it using at-spi16:23
charlie-tcas/still it/still show it16:23
charlie-tca!info at-spi2 natty16:24
charlie-tca<ubottu> Package at-spi2 does not exist in natty16:24
apinheirocharlie-tca, I know16:25
apinheirothis is the reason I opened that bug16:25
apinheirobecause it was not working properly with at-spi16:25
charlie-tcaIf natty will not even have at-spi2, then we need a fix that makes things work without it, right?16:25
apinheirothat is the one what will be used on natty16:25
apinheirocharlie-tca, that bug is fixed16:25
apinheirowhat I tried to tell Pendulum 16:25
charlie-tcawithout at-spi2?16:25
apinheirois that without this fix16:25
apinheirowas not possible to test unity with orca16:26
apinheiroand this fix was applied today16:26
charlie-tcaI tested it on the 18th and it worked16:26
apinheiroso I guess that it is not available on any natty package16:26
apinheiroit worked the interaction with natty?16:26
apinheiroit worked the interaction with unity?16:26
apinheiroor you tested it with other apps?16:26
charlie-tcayes, I did a screen-reader install and it worked with unity16:26
charlie-tcaI have that install running on another machine, orca works16:27
apinheiroso orca was speeching out when you interacted with the launcher?16:27
apinheiroand with the dash?16:28
charlie-tcathe dash is not accessible at all, that I can tell16:28
apinheiroyes I know, it is a bug open16:28
apinheirobut it is weird16:28
apinheirountil this commit 16:28
apinheirowith at-spi 16:28
apinheiroorca didn't react16:28
apinheirowith the launcher16:28
apinheiroanyway, no problem16:29
charlie-tcaSo it now works, right?16:29
apinheirolauncher yes16:29
apinheirodash no16:29
charlie-tcaThus the reason we need to fallback to 2d without the dash for accessibility, right?16:29
PendulumI thought it was falling back to gnome-desktop, not 2d Unity16:30
Pendulum(sorry, to my brain 2d = 2d Unity)16:30
apinheirocharlie-tca, yes I guess so16:31
charlie-tcacould be my mistake, but I thought 2d meant no dash16:31
Pendulumcharlie-tca: you may be right for Natty16:32
apinheiro2d what?16:32
apinheiroor the old gnome-desktop ?16:32
charlie-tcawhen logging in you have the option to choose classic-gnome desktop session16:32
charlie-tcaThat is what we should be falling back to for this16:32
apinheirocharlie-tca, ok thanks16:32
charlie-tcaIt uses compiz, but not unity16:33
apinheirojust for some effects16:33
apinheirobut the low layers are still the old gnome desktop16:33
apinheiroas Pendulum said, I also confused this 2d16:33
apinheirowith unity-2d16:33
charlie-tcabut at least then orca and the speech programs should work for us16:33
apinheirothat afaik, it doesn't have any a11y support at all16:33
PendulumI'm sure unity-2d doesn't have a11y support because it's Qt based16:34
charlie-tcaIt should be the old gnome, which did have support16:34
Pendulumcharlie-tca: 2d Unity they were using Qt for16:34
charlie-tcaOh, then I got the terms confused bad.16:34
charlie-tcaI will use classic-gnome to mean the right session, then.16:34
Pendulumthe whole thing is confusing16:35
apinheiroyeah, at first I though that unity-2d was a kind of unity backend16:35
apinheirobut afaik are totally different16:36
apinheirojust the same appearance16:36
AlanBellso new unity 2d is different to Maverick unity?16:36
charlie-tcanothing is quite the same as Maverick 16:36
apinheiroAlanBell, there are two different programas16:36
AlanBellwow, didn't realise that16:37
apinheironow there are two unity16:37
AlanBellso we have three unities in total16:37
apinheirounity that uses opengl 16:37
apinheiroand unity-2d that uses qt16:37
AlanBellmaverick, natty 3d and natty 2d16:37
apinheirothat doesn't require a special hw16:37
apinheirowell, afaik, maverick unity is "the past"16:37
apinheirois being replaced by the new natty unity16:38
charlie-tcaYes, it certainly is16:38
AlanBellalthough it is "the present" on my computer16:38
charlie-tcaAnd, the new natty unity is the nightmare for us16:38
charlie-tcaapinheiro: I will do a new install of natty today, and try the classic-gnome with orca16:39
apinheirook, but just for your information, my work is about accessibility on unity16:42
apinheirobut it is clear that if unity thing is not complete, classig-gnome would be required16:42
charlie-tcaheh, as heard in #ubuntu-desktop:16:42
charlie-tca<didrocks> pitti: launcher is fully a11y. Still need some investigation this week for places though16:42
* Pendulum is very tempted to say "unless you need to use the onscreen keyboard"16:42
charlie-tcaYeah, that and Orca today, apparently16:42
Pendulumor is that on the dash that the issue showed up?16:43
charlie-tcabut they are very sure16:43
charlie-tcaCan't use any onscreen keyboard with dash16:43
Pendulumalso when did blind people become the only people with a11y needs?>16:43
Pendulumlike, seriously!16:43
Pendulum(sorry, just saw another comment in same meeting)16:44
charlie-tcaI tried telling them a11y includes Orca, but that went no where16:44
charlie-tcaIt's a losing battle now in natty. They will insist it works, as long as they don't need it16:44
Pendulumyou can see my comment I just made16:45
charlie-tcayeah, I see it16:45
Pendulumi'm going to poke after the meeting rather than disrupt16:46
charlie-tcaLike the comment I made on a mailing list, accessibility gets one step forward, and loses two steps getting there.16:46
AlanBellhajour: your yahoo account is sending spam :(16:49
apinheiroPendulum, well, as I implementing the atk support for unity, I was just using orca to test that those thing were working16:49
apinheirobut you are right16:49
apinheirosomeone tested the zoom plugin of compiz with unity?16:49
apinheirosomeone know if they are not "firiendly each other"?16:50
apinheiroAlanBell, and it works fine the mixture unity+eZoom?16:50
AlanBellit did work but right now I can't start it for some reason, I am halfway through a dist upgrade at the moment16:50
apinheiroAlanBell, ok thanks16:52
AlanBellseems the superkey+mousewheel binding vanished on my machine at least16:55
AlanBellhowever I got it working and it zooms the desktop and apps successfully and I can use them whilst zoomed16:56
AlanBellwhat it doesn't do is zoom the unity dock16:56
AlanBellso they are getting friendly but not BFF just yet16:57
AlanBellyou can use the dock whilst zoomed16:57
Pendulumcharlie-tca: do you know if there are any bugs filed yet about the issues with onscreen keyboards in Unity?16:59
AlanBelland the colour filters don't get applied to the dock16:59
PendulumAlanBell: those sound like bugs17:00
AlanBellI will retest once this upgrade has finished17:02
charlie-tcayes, I filed one yesterday17:02
AlanBellah, I see why they do it like that17:03
charlie-tcaand there is another one about a different issue, I will have to look up17:03
AlanBellit is going to be a wontfix17:03
AlanBellthe workspace switcher does the expose zoom out to show 6 desktops, you wouldn't want the dock to zoom out with it17:03
AlanBellso they do the compiz stuff, then afterwards slap the dock on top of it17:04
AlanBellso it isn't going to get zoomed, or colour filtered, or anything else really17:04
charlie-tcabug 73981217:04
ubot2Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73981217:04
PendulumAlanBell: yeah, but that doesn't make it right17:05
cprofitthey Pendulum 17:05
PendulumAlanBell: better to raise the bug, use it for discussion, etc.17:05
Pendulumhi charlie-tca 17:05
Pendulumcprofitt: 17:06
AlanBellPendulum: I will17:06
PendulumAlanBell: subscribe me to it?17:06
cprofittlooks like we have some bugs coming in for accessibility, heh?17:06
AlanBellI will look through the list of plugins to see what other interesting things don't affect the dock17:06
cprofittfor the global jam is there going to be an easy way to identify the accessibility bugs?17:07
charlie-tcaThey are all tagged a11y17:08
cprofittI think I may have a group of students at RIT that will want to work on those specifically17:08
cprofittcan't promise, but that is my expectation17:08
cprofittthey are NTID students17:09
charlie-tcaI will keep tagging them. I am subscribed to every accessibility package17:09
Pendulumcprofitt: also, if they'd be willing to do more testing on a11y installs, it's always good :)17:10
charlie-tcaand make sure the applications work, too17:11
AlanBellmy Natty VM seems to be telling me that it is time to re-test the full installation procedure17:15
charlie-tcaI can't get Unity to work in VBox now, without installing guest additions17:17
charlie-tcaum, that is VBox-OSE, and I haven't tried guest additions17:18
AlanBellit doesn't17:21
AlanBellit needs vbox 4 and guest additions17:22
cprofittPendulum: I think they would be.17:26
charlie-tcait used to work in VBox-OSE too17:26
cprofittI want to show them the wiki too...17:26
cprofittI hope to get a small group involved at the school... but we will see how it goes.17:27
cprofittfar too often people say they will show up and then do not.17:27
=== jono_ is now known as jono
hajourhi all after i had kicked phillw out of the team with good reasons.there now are being send mails out of my name to accessibility,speechcontrol but also it is go trough to officel help instances who email adresses are now be used17:58
hajourwhat can i do about this17:58
hajourthe mail is titled howdy17:58
hajouri not have send it17:59
hajouri not want put it in ubt but if that mail also go be used to send to then i will have no choice to inform everybody17:59
charlie-tcaAlanBell: ^ ^ 18:00
hajourcharlie-tca,  cprofitt AlanBell duanedesign jono mhall119 a18:00
hajourweird mails are being send out of my name whit my email adres18:01
hajourand speechcontrol launchpadmail to18:01
hajourbut also by a other persons instance mail from adhd/add and attached18:02
hajourthis not only do harm to me and speechcontrol but also harms others to18:02
charlie-tcahajour: Thank you for telling us18:04
hajouri not bo what to do about this honest say18:04
hajouralso not who to tell this18:05
charlie-tcaYou have done it right. 18:05
hajouryou where the ones i thought i must tell18:05
charlie-tcaYou tell people that get these emails, and they delete them18:06
hajouryes and after that?18:06
charlie-tcaIf it gets real bad, you can change email address18:06
hajourit has to stop he use my email adress18:06
charlie-tcaIf not, then you can not do anything18:06
hajouri am so tired of this18:07
hajouri left lubuntu just to avoid situations like this18:07
AlanBellhajour: this is your yahoo account getting hacked by a spammer, it is nothing to do with anyone you know18:07
hajournot for people from lubuntu18:07
charlie-tcaI have one email address that this happened to. I never found a good fix18:07
hajourbut 1 person18:07
hajouryou not know what is more happened AlanBell  i have inform Pendulum  and we have inform cprofitt 18:08
hajouri not want anymore that behind the curtains mess anymore18:09
hajouri have give permision on Pendulum  to let read all councilmembers the pm between Pendulum  and me18:10
hajourso only choice is to take a other email adres18:11
hajouruh i lost spellings corecction in English suddenly18:12
charlie-tcaMaybe wait a few days and see if things settle down again.18:12
hajourwhich light weight program there is more from ubuntu?18:12
charlie-tcafor email?18:12
hajournop i have kicked him because i had head it whit the manipulation in pm18:13
hajourno on chat here18:13
hajourand i want this stopped soon as possible18:13
AlanBellif you can still log on to your account then do so, and change your password there18:14
AlanBellhajour: this has *nothing* to do with phillw or any of the drama surrounding that whole speechcontrol/sii thing18:14
hajourye sure18:14
hajouri will send the mails i had get from him to cprofitt not the spam other18:15
hajouri not like to be set up to other peoples18:15
hajourbut i talk later i need to do things for my kids now18:16
pleia2charlie-tca: is discussion about onboard keyboard and search happening anywhere but the mailing list and that bug report? /me notices Importance changes18:28
pleia2s/the mailing list/the original thread on -accessibility18:28
Pendulumpleia2: it's actually been on ubuntu-devel-discuss18:30
pleia2Pendulum: ah, thanks18:30
pleia2ah yeah, gmail was smart and merged the threads when I read it in my accessibility label18:31
Cheri703can someone ping me when charlie-tca shows up?21:13
AlanBellwell Natty is totally screwed at the moment if you are running it in virtualbox21:44
AlanBellso time for some work on the daniela persona21:44
AlanBellhttp://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/daniela for anyone wanting to join in21:47
hajourquestion how i can get command again from my own channel?22:27
hajoursomeone removed my operator status22:27
hajouron my own channel22:27
AlanBellhajour: what channel?22:31
hajouri not know by the others i not have tried also not UndiFineD  but there some things have been changed22:32
AlanBellUndiFineD has ops there and can fix it22:33
hajourok 22:33
hajourand i have i still command now?22:33
hajouri had first voice22:33
AlanBellsorry, I don't know that much about IRC22:34
AlanBellhowever you are not cloaked at the moment22:35
hajourwell i was till tomorrow22:35
hajouralso my mail worked till tomorrow22:35
hajouri had voice in my channel till this morning22:35
macohajour: do you mean yesterday?22:35
macoor are you predicting the future?22:36
hajour22 march 6.30 morning amsterdam time22:36
macooh, so today22:36
AlanBellhajour: get UndiFineD to say /msg chanserv flags #speechcontrol-offtopic22:36
hajourthen everything was still normal well most then22:37
AlanBellnothing has changed22:37
hajourok i have copied it in dialoog window22:37
hajourand i know go to his pc22:37
hajourbecause UndiFineD  is sleeping22:38
hajouri have 4 voice ? freenode 5 and why Mohi is having a flag?22:40
hajouri cant recover also22:41
hajouri had in beginning first voice22:42
hajourUndiFineD,  sec22:42
hajourand the jmarsden and charlie-tca22:43
hajourand jacky offcourse22:43
hajourdthen daniel because he is team lreader from seechcontrol inferno22:44
AlanBellthis isn't really the place to sort it out22:44
AlanBellhowever can you paste the line that just relates to your name here22:44
hajourdaniel and  michaeh asked to give michael also voice because i needed to change topic in inferno22:44
AlanBellor even better lets talk in #speechcontrol-offtopic as this conversation is irrelevant to most people here22:45

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